In Russia, work is underway on the mass construction of special shelters for military aircraft

213
In Russia, work is underway on the mass construction of special shelters for military aircraft

This reform in the domestic Air Force has been expected for more than a decade. And now in Russia, work is underway on the mass construction of special shelters for military aircraft.

The start of this program was announced in the spring of last year personally by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, Sergei Shoigu.

The fact that close attention has been paid to the problem at the highest level speaks of the urgent need to solve it. According to the plans of the Russian defense department, it was planned to build at least 300 aviation shelters. First of all, they will be used to store the latest fifth-generation aircraft created by domestic aircraft manufacturers.

The need for such facilities for our airborne forces has been demonstrated by the Syrian experience. He showed that aircraft must be protected from enemy attack not only in the air, but also on the ground. The Islamists repeatedly attacked the Russian Khmeimim air base located in Syria with the help of drones and even fired from mortars.

In the open air, one ammunition with its fragments is capable of hitting several aircraft at once. If they are covered, then the enemy will have to try hard to damage each piece of equipment.

But shelters are needed not only to protect against enemy ammunition, but also from adverse weather conditions. Being under a roof, expensive equipment will be less exposed to the vagaries of the weather and will last longer. And the technical staff will work with it easier and more convenient.

The construction details of such structures are not a military secret, as they were developed back in the 60s of the last century. These are reinforced concrete shelters of arched type. They consist of semi-arches with walls up to 60 cm thick and have metal gates. Outside, the structure is covered with earth and masked with turf, or even planting trees.
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  1. +61
    16 August 2022 17: 31
    Rationally. But it was needed the day before yesterday!
    1. Des
      +54
      16 August 2022 17: 38
      It was always needed.
    2. +20
      16 August 2022 18: 15
      Well, yes, the miser pays twice ...
      1. +20
        16 August 2022 19: 08
        Build a shelter for 100-200 thousand dollars so as not to "love" the plane for 20-30 million. Yes... the proverb at its finest...
        We do not want to learn ourselves - the enemy will teach.
        1. +23
          16 August 2022 19: 15
          When the Americans fired on Syrian airfields, this was not enough.
          It took several of our planes at the Saki airfield to burn down at a time, just to think.
          1. -14
            16 August 2022 20: 20
            Quote: Shurik70
            When the Americans fired on Syrian airfields, this was not enough.
            It took several of our planes at the Saki airfield to burn down at a time, just to think.

            Better late than never ... Now there is money, and Russia no longer looks back at the United States, we build what we want and where we want
            If they had started to build earlier and signed such billion-dollar contracts, then the West would have raised such a howl, as if Russia is preparing for war \ Well, about the bloody regime ..
            You can of course pony, but somehow it’s not in my rules ..
            Break through!
            1. +1
              16 August 2022 20: 22
              So no one has yet said that the planes burned down in Sakki and how many. That's why we're waiting for S.
        2. avg
          +2
          17 August 2022 11: 04
          Quote from: Imperium_Aeterna
          Build a shelter for 100-200 thousand dollars so as not to "love" the plane for 20-30 million. Yes... the proverb at its finest...

          Yes, even buy paint for 100 bucks, so that the gates can be painted to match the color of the area, and not "what God sent."
      2. +2
        17 August 2022 09: 17
        Quote: Thrifty
        Well, yes, the miser pays twice ...

        It's not just that. At the western airfields, the planes are spaced so that, with all the desire, more than one plane - a rocket, cannot be destroyed. You can bet - ours are riveting aircraft barracks ("savings" and ... in one bottle).
    3. +13
      16 August 2022 20: 15
      Especially this phrase killed:
      The need for such facilities for our airborne forces has been demonstrated by the Syrian experience.

      That is, before Syria, a deaf-deaf or complete woodpecker was responsible for planning ground infrastructure, point blank not wanting to pay attention to foreign experience? Or at least listen to experience their own predecessors? Why was it necessary to hit your forehead in order to understand that it hurt? belay

    4. +4
      17 August 2022 09: 59
      Rationally. But it was needed the day before yesterday!

      The day before yesterday it was in our country, until yesterday those who said that it was not right came to power, and now that they have empirically established that it is still right, they decided to restore what we had the day before yesterday.
    5. +8
      18 August 2022 09: 14
      Were you waiting for the rooster to peck in the opu?
    6. 0
      18 August 2022 17: 12
      Sergio_7. Everything is correct! At this pace, "wars", that is, the special operation is designed for fifteen years, but it will be called a two-hundred-year-old operation to remove something without knowing what. Like a father says to his son - go there, I don’t know where, bring something, I don’t know what. The son is understandable, so that the mother would not have guessed. It means go for cognac. Or, like, bring me a scarlet flower, my friend. Everything is like in a fairy tale and the operation is fabulous. The mansions will be fabulous, like those forty robbers who were robbed by Ali Baba. Everything will be so secret that to come up and say the cherished words. Say the password! Password! It's all right, come on.
    7. 0
      19 August 2022 13: 50
      Quote: Sergio_7
      Rationally. But it was needed the day before yesterday!

      In addition to the decree, it is necessary to introduce public burning on raw wood for theft at military construction!
  2. +51
    16 August 2022 17: 32
    As they gasped in Sakka, so they immediately began to wrinkle their foreheads.
    All according to an old Russian proverb.
    Laughter through tears. So many airfields were abandoned with fully working caponiers in the 90-2000s, it just doesn’t fit in my head.
    And now we decided to build a bicycle again.
    1. +20
      16 August 2022 17: 36
      Many involved in cash flows sweated their palms.
    2. +1
      16 August 2022 17: 46
      Quote: Arkady007
      As they gasped in Sakka, so they immediately began to wrinkle their foreheads.

      Did you try to read and understand what you read?
      The start of this program was announced in the spring of last year personally by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, Sergei Shoigu.
      1. +30
        16 August 2022 17: 58
        The design details of such structures are not a military secret, as they were developed back in the 60s of the last century.

        And at the same time, Shoigu announced the start of the program STILL in the spring of last year ... By the way, how many shelters were prepared in more than a year?
        1. -6
          16 August 2022 18: 01
          Quote: UAZ 452
          The design details of such structures are not a military secret, as they were developed back in the 60s of the last century.

          And at the same time, Shoigu announced the start of the program STILL in the spring of last year ... By the way, how many shelters were prepared in more than a year?

          Did you see the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation in my face? Or so, potryndet?
          I, just like you, do not have such data.
          1. -1
            18 August 2022 15: 55
            The complexity of the design of the caponier is only for stupid generals. Arched structures of any type in advertising and everywhere. Just pay money.
        2. -26
          16 August 2022 18: 17
          Quote: UAZ 452
          By the way - how many shelters have been prepared for more than a year?

          By the way, about prichakh ... what makes you think that someone is obliged to report to you? Well, the same Shoigu, for example?
          1. +6
            16 August 2022 18: 51
            Under Stalin, everyone reported for some reason.
            1. +3
              16 August 2022 20: 15
              Under Stalin, everyone reported to Stalin.
              1. +8
                16 August 2022 20: 26
                Chubais also reported to someone with us, but he was awarded in England.
                1. 0
                  16 August 2022 20: 35
                  And how is Chubais connected with Stalin?
                  1. -5
                    16 August 2022 20: 40
                    There is such a thing as government.
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U65-JRZmckQ
                    I am for such management.
        3. +18
          16 August 2022 19: 30
          Quote: UAZ 452
          By the way - how many shelters have been prepared for more than a year?

          And how many churches for comparison. laughing
          1. 0
            18 August 2022 15: 10
            Churches are not built on public funds.
      2. +9
        16 August 2022 18: 05
        It was possible to write the year before, but they started talking only now, leading to bad thoughts.
        1. -4
          16 August 2022 19: 05
          Quote: Anatoly Salnikov
          leads to bad thoughts

          Judging by the fact that there are no real references to sources in the article, this proto VO decided to "fill the information vacuum". I wouldn't worry request
      3. +25
        16 August 2022 18: 08
        We like to give a start, and make ambitious plans in rearmament programs, but in fact we have constant shifts to the right. So the comrade wrote everything correctly, the start may have been given, but they began to move like a rooster pecked in one place
        1. +1
          16 August 2022 18: 15
          They didn’t put a rooster-rooster in one place
      4. +2
        16 August 2022 18: 11
        Is the program for 10 years? Yoi from 2015 to 25? did not try to do what was necessary for the country?
        It wasn’t thunder that struck and the rooster pecked, but instead of a hole in the ice, a brace was thrust into another hole
      5. +2
        16 August 2022 18: 42
        The start was given, the trigger was pulled only yesterday.
    3. +14
      16 August 2022 17: 51
      Quote: Arkady007
      Laughter through tears. So many airfields were abandoned with fully working caponiers in the 90-2000s, it just doesn’t fit in my head.

      Can you put a plane with a wingspan of 14,7 m in a shelter with a width of 12,9 m? wink
      1. +1
        16 August 2022 18: 20
        in principle it is possible
      2. +1
        16 August 2022 18: 46
        I don’t know about the dimensions, but the Su 24 was rolled up there.
        1. -1
          16 August 2022 19: 42
          So he also has a variable sweep wing. In the most "folded" state, I think, the span is less than that of newer aircraft, than that of the Su 34 for sure.
          1. +2
            17 August 2022 11: 01
            Quote: UAZ 452
            In the most "folded" state, I think the span is less than that of newer aircraft, than that of the Su 34 for sure.

            When folded (sweep angle 69 degrees), the wingspan of the Su-24 is 10,7 m. Almost one and a half times less than that of the Su-27. And two meters less than the width of a typical shelter.
            1. +1
              17 August 2022 12: 18
              As expected. Then I can’t understand at all: what did the three individuals who downvoted my comment want to say?
    4. +6
      16 August 2022 18: 09
      Quote: Arkady007
      As they gasped in Sakka, so they immediately began to wrinkle their foreheads.

      I'm embarrassed to ask - "In the spring of the past of the year"???????

      Quote: Pereira
      many, involved in cash flows, sweaty palms.
      -do not build - bad, build - also bad ???
      1. +2
        16 August 2022 19: 43
        It’s bad when they build, as it were, and master the budget without any “how to”. I hope now is not the time when this rolls around.
    5. -8
      16 August 2022 18: 19
      Quote: Arkady007
      in the 90s-2000s

      ... no one knew about the 14th and 22nd. And in hindsight, everyone is strong (s).
      1. +18
        16 August 2022 18: 48
        Well, yes, no one knew that pilots would be needed, and therefore they reduced all schools. And now they say they are not there and no one knows where to take them.
        1. +7
          16 August 2022 19: 12
          Well, yes, no one knew that pilots would be needed, and therefore they reduced all schools. And now they say they are not there and no one knows where to take them.
          Fuck the situation! It is easier to find foreign players in the national team than pilots in the national VKS! And then there’s also the need for airplanes, and hangars, and technical staff, and spare parts as a train to the pilots! Yes a! Footballers probably cost less to protect the interests of the country? Although the defense of athletes can be broken by a ban on playing under the flag of their country. But no one can stop the army from fighting under the flag of their country! So what is more important for the country? A team of foreign athletes who can easily ban flags, or a national army that can fly its own flags anywhere? And by raising the flags, athletes will no longer be banned from performing under the flags of the national army and national sports. Yes, and the athletes will probably be from their yards, and not from the gates of foreign countries.
    6. -3
      16 August 2022 18: 30
      Why, right away, it is said that it all started a long time ago.
    7. +2
      16 August 2022 18: 35
      And for this, many thanks to Mr. Serdyukov. How much he destroyed and disbanded, only he probably knows ...
      1. +20
        16 August 2022 19: 46
        Mr. Serdyukov has not been in the chair of the Moscow Region for 10 years, during this time it was possible to correct everything that he did in 4 years in this chair. If they didn’t fix it, then they didn’t intend to. And also, by the way, the Tatar-Mongolian yoke greatly crippled our country, they still have not fully recovered.
        1. +15
          16 August 2022 20: 08
          Breaking is always easier than building.
          But, by and large, in 10 years it was possible to decide that the army is more important than the UAV or the Main Temple of the Armed Forces.
          And then we still need to complete the construction of the Island of Forts in Kronstadt.
          Oh, this SVO is not on time.
        2. +2
          17 August 2022 07: 40
          And there are also a lot of complaints about his followers ... The same Shoigu is now completely out of place ... He seemed to cope with the Ministry of Emergencies, but now the General Staff and he personally have already made so many mistakes ... But they usually don’t change horses at the crossing, yes and there is no new Suvorov yet crying
      2. +5
        17 August 2022 11: 09
        Quote: Jackson
        And for this, many thanks to Mr. Serdyukov. How much he destroyed and disbanded, only he probably knows ...

        As for the disbanding - not everything is so obvious. Yes, there were more air regiments in the pre-Serdyuk Air Force. But these shelves were paper. But they consumed money and resources like real ones.
        When the reformers took over the Air Force, it turned out that in fact the regiments are squadrons. The well-known 22nd GIAP, which is armed with two types and five models of aircraft, just turned out by merging three such regiments-squadrons.
        And in some places it was even worse - even in pre-household times, when the air division and air regiment of the VTA were reorganized, they managed to find live equipment and crews for only one regiment. The Navy had the worst - when the Air Force transferred the former MRA, it turned out that there were living machines in it - for two squadrons.
    8. 0
      19 August 2022 13: 51
      Quote: Arkady007
      As they gasped in Sakka, so they immediately began to wrinkle their foreheads.

      Neither Sacco nor Vanzetti are related to Saki...
  3. +19
    16 August 2022 17: 33
    It's high time to do this. CBO showed that equipment worth millions is destroyed by a doron and a grenade, which are priced less than the cost of a pilot's helmet. But as they say: <<until the thunder breaks out, the peasant will not cross himself>>.
    1. ada
      +9
      16 August 2022 19: 30
      Open storage by itself does not add resource to IWT and other MS. Even a canopy allows you to save material resources.
  4. -8
    16 August 2022 17: 33
    In our country, another cut. It is on such large-scale construction sites, throughout the network of airfields, that there is a gold mine for crooks from military construction projects!
    1. +16
      16 August 2022 17: 49
      Quote: zharyoff
      In our country, another cut. It is on such large-scale construction sites, throughout the network of airfields, that there is a gold mine for crooks from military construction projects!

      Here you are. Most of the screams need caponiers, but there are those who will scream cut. Well, what to do with this public laughing
      1. +8
        16 August 2022 18: 02
        Quote: Mitroha
        Here you are. Most of the screams need caponiers, but there are those who will scream cut. Well, what to do with this public

        As long as there is no responsibility for theft in Russia (at least as in China), all this will be a feeding trough for the next thieves and sawmills. Everything will be that way. But you have to build!
        1. 0
          16 August 2022 18: 09
          Quote: cmax
          As long as there is no responsibility for theft in Russia (at least as in China), all this will be a feeding trough for the next thieves and sawmills.

          So you can talk about everything. And do nothing. And you can do it, simultaneously identifying and planting thieves. How do you like it better? I think, like me, the second. For this, the existing Criminal Code of the Russian Federation is quite enough.
          1. +10
            16 August 2022 18: 54
            Quote: Mitroha
            And you can do it, simultaneously identifying and planting thieves

            Can you tell me who they planted from the sawmills. Yes, a trifle is planted, and large ones come out in a year. Remember Serdyukov's girlfriend - a millionaire, she is on the bunk, no, she lives drunk. Ulyukaev (ministry) sat down in the 18th, in the 22nd he was released on parole .............. look for the rest yourself!
            1. 0
              18 August 2022 13: 50
              there is a way!
              create a construction company, win a tender for these works and build without stealing a penny.
              no need to say that you won't be able to win the trend... AT LEAST TRY.
            2. 0
              19 August 2022 11: 36
              Well, for example, not the smallest fry, but as many as six governors received real terms.

              **\- Komi (Vyacheslav Gaizer), United Russia Party**
              On June 10, 2019, Gaizer was sentenced by the Moscow Zamoskvoretsky Court to 11 years in a strict regime colony and a 160 million rubles fine.

              **\- Bryansk Region (Nikolai Denin), United Russia Party**
              On November 19, 2015, the Sovetsky District Court of the Bryansk Region was found guilty of the alleged crime and sentenced to four years in prison in a general regime colony.

              On April 24, 2018, he was released on parole, in connection with the payment of 22 million to the state revenue.

              **\- Kirov region (Nikita Belykh), SPS Party (2001-2008)**
              On June 24, 2016, Nikita Belykh was detained in Moscow, at the restaurant of the Lotte Plaza shopping and office center on Novy Arbat, while receiving tagged 100 thousand euros

              Belykh was sentenced to 8 years in prison in a strict regime colony and a fine of over 48 million rubles.

              **\- Tver region (Vladimir Platov), ​​Party "Unity"**
              On November 11, 2005, the Tagansky District Court of Moscow found Platov fully guilty of abuse of office and sentenced him to five years in prison.

              **\- Tula Region (Vyacheslav Dudka), United Russia Party**
              On July 22, 2013, the Sovetsky District Court of Tula found the former governor guilty of committing a crime under paragraphs. "a", "c" part 5 of Art. 290 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (as amended by the Federal Law of November 21.11.2011, 329 No. 9-FZ), and sentenced him to imprisonment for a term of 6 years and 900 months with a fine of 000 rubles, to be served in a penal colony of strict mode.

              **\- Sakhalin Region (Alexander Khoroshavin), United Russia Party**
              On February 9, 2018, the Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk City Court sentenced Alexander Khoroshavin to 13 years in a strict regime colony with a fine of 500 million rubles.

              It is worth adding that there are two more governors sentenced to real terms. These are the Governors of Karelia **Andrey Nelidov** and Komi **Vladimir Torlopov**. But they were convicted no longer being governors, for crimes that they committed not in the post of governor.
          2. +3
            16 August 2022 19: 21
            So you can talk about everything. And do nothing. And you can do it, simultaneously identifying and planting thieves. How do you like it better? I think, like me, the second. For this, the existing Criminal Code of the Russian Federation is quite enough.
            And you can introduce state property for everything and ban private business! Because the effectiveness of private business comes down to the efficiency of filling your pocket! To begin with, it is necessary to prohibit private individuals from fulfilling government orders! Controversial? But what is the effectiveness of the Plato system if it is geared towards raising money? Can't the government raise money? Does the state have a stake? 25% share is like a tax on private activities! Similarly, the largest Russian timber company was sold to the Japanese with a state share of 25%. Before that, our managers successfully bankrupted her! No scam, just business! And what for to us such business? Should the country serve the interests of a group of individuals or the interests of the entire population of the country? And about the criminal code. He is moving towards the administrative code. Pay the fine and live in peace!
            1. +1
              16 August 2022 19: 49
              Well, again we will come to a situation where everything around is popular, everything around is a draw (in the public sector they did not leave this situation), and if there is a draw, it is not a pity for him. And the state office (its management) can steal in such a way that private business can only envy.
            2. +1
              17 August 2022 11: 12
              Quote: North Caucasus
              And you can introduce state property for everything and ban private business!

              Who said again "Spetsstroy" and the Vostochny cosmodrome? laughing
      2. +3
        16 August 2022 18: 09
        So what if there is no trust in the authorities)
        When they put things in order and give real terms for disrupting rearmament programs and the supply of equipment, then there will be fewer such votes
        1. +1
          16 August 2022 19: 31
          When they put things in order and give real terms for disrupting rearmament programs and the supply of equipment, then there will be fewer such votes
          Everyone will probably agree with this except those who profit from these programs. Probably the first point is to cut off all private structures from government orders. The second paragraph is to prescribe responsibility for the failure of the state order. In the Middle Ages, you could cut off your head. But we are humane people. Responsible can be moved to a zone of special control over them. The experience is already there and worked effectively. And since both points are not used by us, then it has what we have. In general, private business for three decades in Russia has shown its complete inefficiency for the interests of the country.
        2. 0
          16 August 2022 19: 54
          When they put things in order and will give real terms for disruptions in rearmament programs and the supply of equipment

          Or no one will want to get involved with the state defense order under any sauce. There was a similar situation in healthcare a few years ago - when the state introduced marginal prices for vital drugs, and for several years refused to raise them, even by the amount of inflation, pharmaceutical factories simply stopped producing them. Dot. Return to a planned economy with a 100% public sector? And why was everyone so jubilant when this experiment was stopped in 1991? Why does anyone think that version 2.0 will be very different?
      3. -4
        16 August 2022 18: 22
        Quote: Mitroha
        there will also be those who will shout the cut. Well, what to do with this public

        Plant on a vegetable. They would have tried to shout like that under the Union, they would have been quickly shut up.

        The people blossomed under democracy-liberalism, blossomed ... laughing Yes
        1. +10
          16 August 2022 18: 56
          and let them first return all the benefits of the USSR that were under him to the people, and then they shut them up like under the USSR, it will be fair .. otherwise, there is nothing to remember about the USSR ..
          1. -2
            16 August 2022 19: 21
            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            and let them first return all the benefits of the USSR that were under him - to the people

            What am I against? Let them return...

            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            otherwise, there is nothing to remember about the USSR ..

            No, the USSR must be remembered. It was a very educational time. Yes
      4. -2
        16 August 2022 19: 36
        Pay no attention to them. They have one thing, cut the budget, etc. And what have you done for the country?
    2. +21
      16 August 2022 17: 50
      Quote: zharyoff
      In our country, another cut. It is on such large-scale construction sites, throughout the network of airfields, that there is a gold mine for crooks from military construction projects!

      I was waiting for this comment. smile

      MO does not build shelters - ahh, the traitors stole all the money and are destroying our aviation.
      MO builds shelters - ahhh, it's all cut and rollback, ruining our aviation.
      1. +3
        16 August 2022 18: 00
        The desire to earn money by doing the right thing is understandable and even commendable. The main thing is that it doesn’t turn out as usual - the money is spent, but there are no caponiers. And there are no guilty, except perhaps the foreman.
      2. -3
        16 August 2022 18: 02
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Quote: zharyoff
        In our country, another cut. It is on such large-scale construction sites, throughout the network of airfields, that there is a gold mine for crooks from military construction projects!

        I was waiting for this comment. smile

        MO does not build shelters - ahh, the traitors stole all the money and are destroying our aviation.
        MO builds shelters - ahhh, it's all cut and rollback, ruining our aviation.

        Liberals, they are hi .
    3. +6
      16 August 2022 18: 36
      Quote: zharyoff
      It is on such large-scale construction sites, throughout the network of airfields, that a goldmine for crooks from military construction sites!
      Do you have anything to do with the military-industrial complex? It is unlikely, otherwise they would have known that now you won’t make much money on defense orders, you would have to recapture your own. Those who have civil orders even tried to refuse to participate in military cooperation, forced them, threatening to remove the authorities (the state is the largest shareholder, it can). The slightest delay - the PZ automatically draws up a lawsuit, even if it understands that the enterprise could not do anything. Plus, the prosecutor's office regularly climbs both the enterprise and the PZ. I don't know what kind of connections you need to have to get rich at the expense of the MO and stay free.
      1. +1
        16 August 2022 19: 00
        but what then do they participate in, since they would stay with their own? masochists? stupid?
        1. +2
          16 August 2022 21: 08
          Quote: Level 2 Advisor
          but what then do they participate in, since they would stay with their own? masochists? stupid?
          They participate, because in case of refusal they will change the head and you will participate anyway.
      2. +4
        16 August 2022 19: 38
        I don't know what kind of connections you need to have to get rich at the expense of the MO and stay free.
        And I know. Marshal Taburetkin and his artist friend live very comfortably.
      3. +4
        16 August 2022 20: 20
        Was the order for the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome also from the military-industrial complex?
        They say they stole a lot and no one was caught.
        1. +1
          16 August 2022 21: 11
          Quote: Arkady007
          Was the order for the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome also from the military-industrial complex? They say they stole a lot and no one was caught.
          Vostochny began to build Spetsstroy. Also, this is an old work (early 2010s), the rules have changed since then.
    4. +1
      18 August 2022 16: 03
      In general, there are standard designs of structures. If you put things right, they will still steal, but not enough, as in the USSR.
  5. 0
    16 August 2022 17: 35
    What is this huge thing that died in the forest?
    1. +12
      16 August 2022 17: 44
      Quote: Pereira
      What is this huge thing that died in the forest?

      Third bear in a row. smile
      The first one died in 2019, when, a few years after the creation of the air base on Khmeimim, shelters were finally built on it.
      The second - in the same year in the vicinity of Voronezh (the construction of shelters in Baltimore began).
      1. 0
        22 August 2022 09: 17
        Quote: Alexey RA
        The second - in the same year in the vicinity of Voronezh (the construction of shelters in Baltimore began).

        Since 2015, Baltimore has been building these cheap canopies to protect multi-billion dollar aircraft from the weather.
        But as usual, money is needed for a bridge, then for a temple, then for the Crimea, then for Syria, then for a railway bypassing the non-brothers, then there, then here. And in the end, there are no canopies. If you look at satellite images of the airfield in retrospect, you will see. Sincerely hi
  6. +11
    16 August 2022 17: 36
    I find it hard to believe that the Soviet Union did not have a significant amount of air shelters.
    1. -3
      16 August 2022 17: 40
      There were many things in the Soviet Union.
      1. Alf
        +12
        16 August 2022 17: 53
        Quote: TEX-50
        There were many things in the Soviet Union.

        For example, furniture ministers, journalist ministers, women's battalions ...
        1. +6
          16 August 2022 18: 04
          And also, as they say, the infrastructure for basing our aircraft-carrying cruisers, which is why they constantly had to hang out in the roadstead, moonlighting with propellers, which is why they quickly developed their resource.
        2. +2
          16 August 2022 18: 25
          Quote: Alf
          Quote: TEX-50
          There were many things in the Soviet Union.

          For example, furniture ministers, journalist ministers, women's battalions ...

          And there were no generals' dachas either, built and maintained by soldiers? winked wink
          1. Alf
            +5
            16 August 2022 18: 34
            Quote: Repellent
            Quote: Alf
            Quote: TEX-50
            There were many things in the Soviet Union.

            For example, furniture ministers, journalist ministers, women's battalions ...

            And there were no generals' dachas either, built and maintained by soldiers? winked wink

            The general's dachas did not affect the combat effectiveness of the army, unlike the nipples with the general's shoulder straps.
            1. -5
              16 August 2022 18: 43
              Quote: Alf
              General's dachas did not affect the combat capability of the army

              Well, yes, yes ...

              Quote: Alf
              unlike nipples with generals' shoulder straps

              About the nipple:


              Deushka is an economist by profession, in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation she oversees the financial sector of the department with the rank of deputy minister. She is Acting State Councilor 1st Class. This is a civilian specialist, where you saw the "general's shoulder straps" - I don't understand.

              So it affects the combat effectiveness of the army quite directly, simply by virtue of the position.

              And you should stop pushing dudes here, Generale Yes
              1. +8
                16 August 2022 19: 05
                I would ask you Repelent, why do they then have all the powers and privileges of a general and why they are reported to them according to the charter and why do they give a military greeting, since they are like that about nothing? after all, they are the same generals in all respects except for the form, but they are called state advisers, which in fact is a formality .. but it is very likely that you should not expect a normal answer, it is from you .. otherwise they will drive you from work, if you stop shouting cheers ..
                1. -8
                  16 August 2022 19: 18
                  Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                  and why do they then have all the powers and privileges of a general, and why are they reported to them according to the charter, and why do they give a military greeting, since they are so about nothing?

                  About nothing - I didn’t say it, you yourself came up with it. Here, see what they look like:


                  and the difference ... guess for yourself how an army general differs from a prosecutor's general. You are, like, an "advisor" yourself laughing

                  Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                  but a normal answer, it is from you, is very likely not worth waiting for ..

                  Blah blah blah. You've been given a perfectly reasonable answer.

                  Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                  otherwise they will chase you from work, if you stop shouting cheers ..

                  Past. I value the truth wassat
                  1. +4
                    16 August 2022 20: 28
                    Do the powers of the Deputy Minister of the Ministry of Defense, the cabinet, the car, the plane, the orders issued in terms of significance, honor and reports from subordinates - differ in the state adviser of the Ministry of Defense and the general of the Ministry of Defense? right - no .. and their only difference is in the form .. even the retirement age is approximately the same .. total - the difference in the color of the uniform worn .. this is actually .. but if you go into theory, yesaaa .. different .. but the nuance is that only the names are different - the rest is the same .. or what else is different? ah .. well, yes .. civilians would not have been able to occupy positions usually substituted from lieutenant general and put higher .. then what? right, but let's call them state advisers..and now it has become possible..You love the truth, as you yourself said? wink
                    1. -5
                      16 August 2022 21: 05
                      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                      Do the powers of the Deputy Minister of the Ministry of Defense, the office, the car, the plane, the orders issued in terms of significance, honor and reports from subordinates - differ in the state adviser of the Ministry of Defense and the general of the Ministry of Defense? correct no..

                      Where did the deputy minister get the plane from? How many subordinates does the Deputy Minister of Defense and a civilian specialist equated to him have? What, to my mother, is the "honor" of an accountant, what are you talking about?

                      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                      orders issued by importance

                      It's just a pearl, I want to stop and trample on it:

                      - Do you seriously believe that the orders for the expenditure of funds and the expenditure, relatively speaking, of people, are equivalent?
                      - Do you seriously believe that the significance and capabilities of an accountant and an army general are equivalent?

                      If Yes - you are a strange "adviser of the second freshness", and there is nothing to talk about with you.
                      If no - you are confused yourself and trying to confuse your opponent. It's not kosher Yes

                      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                      but let's call them state advisers .. and now it has become possible ..

                      Sha. Deal with your original premise, it turned out to be wrong.

                      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                      Do you love the truth, as you yourself said?

                      Truth - yes. Talkers and talkers - that's somehow not very good. I understand, I hope laughing
                      1. +2
                        16 August 2022 21: 40
                        ha.. as expected of you..
                        Quote: Repellent
                        Where did the deputy minister get the plane from? How many subordinates does the Deputy Minister of Defense and a civilian specialist equated to him have? What, to my mother, is the "honor" of an accountant, what are you talking about?

                        The same number as the deputy minister of the military .. or do you think that with the advent of a civilian chief, they are reducing management? airplane? the Ministry of Defense has planes - even at the disposal of the district commander, and some even commanders didn’t know helicopters? you know .. and when when senior and senior officers meet them "taking under the visor" is this not an honor? Or is the position of Deputy Minister of Defense itself not honorable in your opinion?
                        Quote: Repellent

                        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                        orders issued by importance

                        It's just a pearl, I want to stop and trample on it:

                        - Do you seriously believe that the orders for the expenditure of funds and the expenditure, relatively speaking, of people, are equivalent?
                        - Do you seriously believe that the significance and capabilities of an accountant and an army general are equivalent?

                        And what about the accountant? in particular, why go? do we have one state adviser to the deputy minister, or did I specifically name someone? and YES imagine - the order of the State Counselor of the Deputy Minister of Defense - is mandatory for the Ministry of Defense - it is strange that you do not understand this ..
                        Quote: Repellent
                        If yes, you are a strange "advisor of the second freshness", and there is nothing to talk about with you.
                        If not, you are confused yourself and are trying to confuse your opponent. It's not kosher

                        What an unexpected move in the discussion, my friend, the transition to the individual .. laughing smarter and thinner in your office do not teach anything?
                        Quote: Repellent
                        Truth - yes. Talkers and talkers - that's somehow not very good. I understand, I hope

                        With joy in your own thought - you go there .. glad that I was not deceived in the outcome of our conversation from the very beginning - the transition to a person, care in particular and draining laughing to the main question - what is their difference besides the form - you, of course, did not want to answer ..
                      2. -4
                        16 August 2022 21: 46
                        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                        to the main question - what is their difference besides the form - you, of course, did not want to answer ..

                        Answered the same - in the significance and degree of responsibility. Responsible (for example) for the loot is one thing.
                        To be responsible for people, equipment, other property (and the same loot, by the way) is a little another.

                        You are still really some kind of tight "adviser" request

                        And, by the way, since you are still here - give five examples of similar positions in the RF Ministry of Defense, you will oblige ... I don’t remember anything like that.

                        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                        in particular, why go? do we have one state adviser to the deputy minister, or did I specifically name someone?

                        Here, name it. Specifically wink
                      3. +2
                        16 August 2022 21: 59
                        otherwise it’s difficult for you to open the MO site yourself .. well, well .. specifically ..
                        1. Pankov N.A. Manages the planning of the selection of officers of the Armed Forces to fill military positions, the appointment to which is carried out by the President of the Russian Federation and the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation; legal support, organization of the functioning and development of the system of military education.
                        2. Ivanov T.V. on engineering surveys, architectural and construction design, construction, reconstruction and overhaul of facilities for the needs of the Ministry of Defense, state expertise, property management of the Armed Forces-little things?
                        3. A.Yu. Krivoruchko Responsible for organizing the military-technical support of the Armed Forces (AF). Manages activities military authorities, military units and organizations for planning the development of weapons, military and special equipment (WMST); organizes the development of proposals and the implementation of the Fundamentals of the Military-Technical Policy of the Russian Federation in the Armed Forces - and these are trifles? actually responsible for the supply of weapons and military equipment to the troops ..

                        I don’t specifically include Tsalikov and Shevtsova, but if you think that they are busy with something unimportant, you are mistaken .. that is. there are only 5 of them, I won’t bring you + to Shevtsova - 5 in any way ..
                      4. -2
                        16 August 2022 22: 06
                        Well, you have finally answered your own questions: civilian specialists in the Defense Ministry are in charge of civilian areas of activity.

                        This is their difference from the generals who lead the military (affairs and specialists).

                        I consider the conversation exhausted, similarities and differences - clarified. Questions, wishes, suggestions?
                      5. +2
                        16 August 2022 22: 15
                        selection and purchase of weapons for the RF Armed Forces, recruitment of generals, construction of airfields, positions of the Strategic Missile Forces, etc. this is a civil activity, which civilians can also steer in your opinion? then yes .. there’s nothing to talk about with you, if, in your understanding, the highest military cadres are only those who yell on the parade ground, but at the headquarters they draw war plans and won’t pull decisions about what kind of equipment to buy, for example .. everyone in the USSR was probably stupid - they didn’t give such positions to purely civilian .. although for such a deliberately losing position in the dispute - like yours, you tried to defend it more or less well .. hi
                      6. -3
                        16 August 2022 22: 22
                        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                        for such a deliberately losing position in the dispute - like yours, you tried to defend it more or less well ..

                        Oh no no no... laughing

                        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                        What an unexpected move in the discussion, my friend, the transition to a personality .. smarter and thinner in your office they don’t teach anything?

                        In the mirror, my dear, in the mirror.

                        And as for that - a military or civilian command of finances, recruitment planning and education, engineering surveys and property (I think not the military), and so on - let the smart uncles decide.

                        I don't discuss solutions by issues, in which incompetent и which cannot be changed. DIXI Yes
            2. +3
              16 August 2022 20: 30
              Quote: Alf
              Quote: Repellent
              Quote: Alf
              Quote: TEX-50
              There were many things in the Soviet Union.

              For example, furniture ministers, journalist ministers, women's battalions ...

              And there were no generals' dachas either, built and maintained by soldiers? winked wink

              The general's dachas did not affect the combat effectiveness of the army, unlike the nipples with the general's shoulder straps.

              I saw youth, like two captains, they brought bitumen to me for the construction of a bathhouse.
              We built a bathhouse for one general on the 7th clearing in Kuibyshev (then) ...
              Bitumen, logs, cement, sand, gravel, tow, just the captains and lieutenants dragged us.
              And concrete was kneaded.
        3. +3
          17 August 2022 11: 16
          Quote: Alf
          For example, furniture ministers, journalist ministers, women's battalions ...

          Come on, there were PPZH hung with medals back in the last big war.
    2. +17
      16 August 2022 17: 46
      Quote from Carlos Sala
      I find it hard to believe that the Soviet Union did not have a significant amount of air shelters.

      More than 3500 arched shelters for aircraft were built on the territory of the USSR and in the Groups of Forces.
      The problem is that a typical Soviet shelter measures 12,9m x 28m (width x depth). And the wingspan of the Su-27 is 14,7 m.
      1. +2
        16 August 2022 18: 01
        You still cannot do without caponiers, since there is transport and strategic aviation, and it is much cheaper.
      2. +2
        16 August 2022 18: 15
        Well, just in these it is possible to keep aviation weapons and equipment servicing airfields.
    3. +6
      16 August 2022 18: 59
      In the USSR, it was decided that ZhBUs are not a reliable shelter for easily damaged aviation equipment, and the weakest element in the use of nuclear weapons are the gas outlet duct flaps, so apparently they stopped building them, replacing them with light sheds, and then the USSR ended.
  7. -1
    16 August 2022 17: 36
    You need a lot of money, a lot.
    1. -4
      16 August 2022 18: 05
      So this is good! For those involved in these flows, of course.
    2. +4
      16 August 2022 19: 47
      Not even very much. Concrete arches are a relatively cheap thing, installing them and filling them with earth is a chore for 3-4 workers "armed" with a bulldozer and a truck crane.
      1. Alf
        +1
        16 August 2022 20: 49
        Quote: Sergey Valov
        Not even very much.

        You argue apolitically, darling, you argue apolitically .. You don’t feel the depth of the moment ... laughing
  8. +12
    16 August 2022 17: 44
    1983 GSVG demobilized from the airfield all aircraft in reinforced concrete shelters. We arrive in Tver all aviation strictly in line on the runway, at an equal distance from each other, wing to wing. Something like this.
  9. +6
    16 August 2022 17: 45
    War is a great teacher. Only training is very expensive.
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  11. -1
    16 August 2022 17: 47
    Which is cheaper. Shelter for a combat aircraft with a KAZ on top. Or the aircraft itself?
  12. +2
    16 August 2022 17: 49
    Well ... we have about a dozen of the 5th generation of airplanes, so the construction is not grandiose laughing
  13. +7
    16 August 2022 17: 50
    Well, about "camouflage" - this is to Elon Musk, but combat stability and safety from the influence of natural factors - yes. A fighter or a helicopter is not a six or an old Volvo to fester at the entrance.
  14. -1
    16 August 2022 17: 58
    “And it is masked by turf, or even by planting trees,” the amateurs got sick of it. How can you disguise the shelter of an aircraft at an airfield ???
    The photo for the article could have been taken from a real airfield, and not advertised as a museum.
    1. 0
      16 August 2022 18: 05
      ... and logs in three rolls ... laughing
    2. Alf
      0
      16 August 2022 20: 54
      Quote: Sergey Valov
      “And it is masked by turf, or even by planting trees,” the amateurs got sick of it. How can you disguise the shelter of an aircraft at an airfield ???

      I can’t say about the shelter of a modern aircraft, it’s not in the subject, but in the Second World War specialists drew such pits on take-off flights that the pilots were afraid to land even after matyukov from the ground.
      1. +1
        16 August 2022 21: 57
        It's not about the shelter itself, how to hide concrete taxiways, especially in winter.
        1. Alf
          +2
          16 August 2022 22: 01
          Quote: Sergey Valov
          It's not about the shelter itself, how to hide concrete taxiways, especially in winter.

          Do you need to hide? Maybe it’s worth building 3-5 fake ones from plywood nearby, let them break their heads “there”?
          1. +1
            17 August 2022 11: 18
            Quote: Alf
            Do you need to hide? Maybe it’s worth building 3-5 fake ones from plywood nearby, let them break their heads “there”?

            It will be expensive. Because each such fake shelter will have to conduct a real taxiing. Otherwise, no one will believe.
        2. +2
          17 August 2022 11: 18
          Quote: Sergey Valov
          It's not about the shelter itself, how to hide concrete taxiways, especially in winter.

          Uh-huh ... the Christmas tree of short taxiing "to nowhere" kills all the disguise of shelters in the bud.
  15. +9
    16 August 2022 18: 04
    I served in the ZRV in the 70s, so we had almost all the equipment in caponiers, and the guidance station and trailers with diesel engines were generally underground. And it was the Air Defense Ministry.
  16. +2
    16 August 2022 18: 18
    Still, work was underway on the mass production of aircraft and drones.
  17. +4
    16 August 2022 18: 23
    Even in the Syrian Air Force, such shelters for the MiG-21 and MiG-23 were built. And our dryers are still in the open air in full view of any passing satellite. Even close to the front.
  18. 0
    16 August 2022 18: 26
    Well, finally, it came to pass, and for this to happen, an incident in Saki and the loss of several combat aircraft were needed!
  19. +1
    16 August 2022 18: 34
    Underground bunkers with feed like on an aircraft carrier .... IMHO
    1. +1
      16 August 2022 19: 50
      "with the supply as on an aircraft carrier" - and the corresponding price. laughing
  20. 0
    16 August 2022 18: 34
    They not only developed, but also built. It was as if Shoigu had guessed to build shelters. They were developed before he was born and how much was left on the old airfields.
    1. Alf
      +3
      16 August 2022 20: 55
      Quote: aslan642
      .As if Shoigu guessed to build shelters

      He was simply told that this was possible and the old drawings from the archives were raised.
  21. +2
    16 August 2022 18: 38
    Well, how can you not say about the thunder and the man ?! And before that, they didn’t give money? Or didn't you ask? In principle, after the mass attacks of Khmeimim UAVs, scientific papers on the topics "Danger to military facilities from small UAVs", "Use of UAVs in deep sabotage operations", "Comprehensive protection of rear facilities in conditions of terrorist danger" should already have been defended. Where?)) And it seems to me that there are such works. But again, they just forgot. I suspect that the bunded sites should have been changed in configuration, and shelters should have been built. Did not have enough time. At the same time, at a time when the danger of the DRG in the rear, especially in the Crimea, was great, did not the duty regime seem to be strengthened? Most likely happened, but without taking into account the above topics.
    1. Alf
      +7
      16 August 2022 20: 57
      Quote: sleeve
      But again, they just forgot.

      No, everything is much simpler. They thought it would slip through on Ur, but it didn’t slip through, the answers fell down, so I had to.
  22. +1
    16 August 2022 18: 40
    at least 300 air shelters.
    It won't be enough. Everyone needs it. And energy in everyone, for mechanics and gunsmiths. And the means to refuel in the shelter. So that you can immediately steer for takeoff, and not stand, everyone's eyes are a callus there.
  23. -2
    16 August 2022 18: 41
    No matter how many times I come here, I am always surprised at what minds disappear here without benefit for the Motherland!
    "But it was needed the day before yesterday!!!" - here is an example of one seer! Well, that's what he's doing here, this is the ready Chief of the General Staff!
    "It was always needed." - here the second would go to his deputies!
    "Well, yes, the miser pays twice" - Well, at least thanks to such posts, at least he rose to the rank of Colonel General!
    1. Alf
      +6
      16 August 2022 20: 59
      Quote: azkolt
      No matter how many times I come here, I am always surprised at what minds disappear here without benefit for the Motherland!

      You're laughing in vain. Those who were dragging the service, and not serving, gathered here, and they saw, knew and did "as expected", and looking at how it is now, they can’t say anything but swearing.
  24. +7
    16 August 2022 18: 49
    As a student, one can say that he participated in the development. :)
    This was done on the so-called pneumatic formwork - on a hefty, like an airship fellow a balloon made of tesa (which also goes for KAMAZ vans), pumped up constantly by a compressor, reinforcement was applied in the form of a grid and arcs. All this was poured with concrete from the "hose". The next day (when everything was frozen) they could put another layer of reinforcement and pour concrete.
    The guys and I were hired as laborers - they dragged and laid concrete blocks on "carts", which served instead of weights. In several places, these "trolleys" were suspended from the structure - to test for strength.
    In this way, a hefty hangar was erected in a couple of days .... good
    Local enthusiasts made a two-seater "airband" similar to a suitcase out of this thesis. lol They adapted two motorcycle motors to it, with gearboxes from Neptune outboard motors, and tried to fly. They were blown away by the wind and put on the trees - they barely survived. Before that, they miraculously avoided a collision with a high-voltage power line. wassat
    1. 0
      21 August 2022 10: 07
      By the way, I found a photo of the airbandel:
  25. +9
    16 August 2022 18: 53
    Even in Iran, at the time of the Tomahawk strike, the planes at the airfields were in hangars. Losses were minimal.
    And in the 6th month of the war, it dawned on someone that the planes should be hidden.
  26. -15
    16 August 2022 18: 56
    And these special shelters will protect against a vigorous bomb if God forbid? No? Then what for?
    1. +6
      16 August 2022 19: 47
      And these special shelters will protect against a vigorous bomb if God forbid? No? Then what for?
      Think like Khrushchev. He also believed that if the war was necessarily nuclear, therefore he saved money on the army and navy, only developed the Strategic Missile Forces. And life has shown. that local wars before ... and more.
      1. +1
        16 August 2022 22: 00
        The air defense forces of the country under Khrushchev, however, flourished.
        1. 0
          16 August 2022 22: 02
          Well, yes. At the expense of other types of troops.
      2. +3
        17 August 2022 11: 30
        Quote: Aviator_
        Think like Khrushchev. He also believed that if the war is necessarily nuclear, therefore he saved on the army and navy, only developed the Strategic Missile Forces.

        Nope. The NSH simply realized that there was not enough money for everyone, and set priorities: first, it was necessary to ensure strategic security (Strategic Missile Forces with ICBMs, nuclear submarines with SLBMs, air defense), and then deal with tactics. And not to keep a five millionth army, which still will not reach the United States, but at the same time it eats like crazy and takes away resources and personnel from the military-industrial complex and the Narxoz.

        Plus, the maize crop cut off the appetites of the military-industrial complex and brought the military to the meridian. And then some happily drove equipment of even pre-war projects into the troops, while others armed regiments, brigades and divisions with it, which in which case it remained only to burn out in the first battle, often without causing damage to the enemy. What combat value did strategic bombers with free-falling nuclear bombs have at the end of the 50s (especially after the US deployed a network of long-range air defense systems)? Or gun cruisers designed in 1939? Or purely artillery destroyers? But Khrushchev had no complaints about the strategic missile carriers that came to replace them (by the way, based on the same Tu-95), RRC pr. 58 and "singing frigates" pr. 61.
        1. 0
          17 August 2022 14: 08
          By the way, the five-million-strong army and the corresponding rear were redundant from all points of view in the 70-80s.
        2. +1
          17 August 2022 18: 13
          What combat value did strategic bombers with free-falling nuclear bombs have at the end of the 50s (especially after the US deployed a network of long-range air defense systems)?
          I explain in order. Free-falling nuclear bombs were in service not only with strategic aviation, but also with tactical ones, moreover, by the United States, the UK, and the French. And all at about the same time. Long-range air defense systems appeared only at the end of the 50s, they actually entered the troops in the 60s, and in the same countries. To take and cut the Tu-4 - you don’t need a lot of mind, it’s good that a part was transferred to the Polar Aviation.
          Or gun cruisers designed in 1939? Or purely artillery destroyers?
          Project 68 artillery cruisers and project 30 destroyers could well have been carriers of the same missiles (of course, not the Regulus class or the hacky development of the unsinkable hack Chelomey "Pike"), and artillery support from the sea has not bothered anyone yet. The Americans used "Iowa" even in 1982. The point is in politics, in it the possibility of a local conflict did not work out at all, and weapons for it, too. Even tactical Atillrian shells for the D-20 and B-4 cannons were created only after the removal of the Corn Khrushch (the shells are on display on the Army 2022 forum https://t.me/infantmilitario/81701). As for the Project 58 RRC, (without armor at all), I’m wondering what he could do now during a landing operation near Odessa? And there is no need to remember the Sumerian "Harpoons" here, they go astray quite well. But the shells still do not go astray. The foolishness of Khrushch Kukuruzny was in economic experiments in the country, but when the economy collapsed, they even changed the five-year plan into a seven-year plan, because it became clear that we could not cope, then there would not be enough funds at all for the Armed Forces.
          1. 0
            18 August 2022 10: 55
            Quote: Aviator_
            Free-falling nuclear bombs were in service not only with strategic aviation, but also with tactical ones, moreover, by the United States, the UK, and the French.

            The problem is that their bombers were sitting in Britain and Turkey. And ours are at best in Chukotka. They had a chance to push through air defense, due to the same tactical vehicles. And in our country, even strategists went to enemy territory at the limit of range. And they were met there by air defense areas deployed at all main targets.
            Quote: Aviator_
            Long-range air defense systems appeared only at the end of the 50s, they actually entered the troops in the 60s, moreover, in the same countries.

            200 Nike-Ajax batteries in the US alone in 1958. In the same year, they were replaced by Nike-Hercules. And the following year, the US air defense began deploying bases for the Bomark air defense system.
            Quote: Aviator_
            To take and cut the Tu-4 - you don’t need a lot of mind, it’s good that a part was transferred to the Polar Aviation.

            Tu-4? And why is he needed if his goals are covered by the IRBM, which by that time had already gone into series.
            By the way, the Tu-95 and Tu-16 were also originally bombers. But they survived, having acquired a long arm that allowed them to hit targets with minimal entry into the air defense zone. But the IL-28 in the URO could not.
            Quote: Aviator_
            Artillery cruisers of project 68 and destroyers of project 30 could well be carriers of the same missiles

            So if the fleet had provided projects for the conversion of Project 68 to the RRC, then they would have survived. How EM pr. 56 survived, turning into rocket ships. But the fleet of work on the KR air defense project 70 and 71 screwed up - and they never received missile weapons, project 68. They didn’t even get normal air defense - they went with the B-11 with manual guidance.
            The history of project 68 is the jamb of the fleet.
            Quote: Aviator_
            The point is in politics, in it the possibility of a local conflict did not work out at all, and weapons for it, too. Even tactical Atillrian shells for the D-20 and B-4 guns were created only after the removal of the Corn Khrushch

            Do you know why? Because no one bakes cakes when there is nothing to eat. First of all, strategic charges and their means of delivery were needed - it was a banal matter of survival. What is the use of tactical SBCs if the enemy is sitting far across the ocean and at any moment can arrange a "Dropshot" with impunity, and in response you can only send a hundred crews of strategists to slaughter.
            Therefore, first - SBC for SLBMs, IRBMs, ICBMs, KR and SAMs. And the artillery will wait.
            By the way, the same Pliev in Cuba in 1962 had about a hundred non-strategic SBCs.
            Quote: Aviator_
            As for the Project 58 RRC, (without armor at all), I’m wondering what he could do now during a landing operation near Odessa? And there is no need to remember the Sumerian "Harpoons" here, they go astray quite well.

            And what relation now has by 1960? Then what - they also planned to use the Navy in the NWO?
            Now, instead of Project 68, you can even drag a tanker with a 2S19 division on the upper deck - they are equivalent in terms of air defense and protection, that is, both of them lack it. If we are talking about the possible modernization of Project 68, then this fleet had to be dealt with in the late 50s. And it’s not stupid to accept the artillery KRL of a slightly turned pre-war project, and then cry that the evil party bureaucrats, who understand nothing about naval affairs, took beautiful toys from the sailors, the air defense of which was outdated even by the standards of the end of WWII.
            1. 0
              18 August 2022 17: 58
              The problem is that their bombers were sitting in Britain and Turkey. And ours are at best in Chukotka.
              The problem (for them) was that all of Western Europe was covered by our bombers, and they really did not reach the USA at that time. Then it was time for rockets. By the way, miserable Chelomeev products with PuVRD were hung on the Tu-4. Armored artillery cruisers are good at handling coastal defense, no other modern ship is capable of this.
              What does it have to do with 1960 now?
              Direct. By 1960, a decision was made at the highest level that there was no need to prepare for local wars.
              that the evil party bureaucrats, who do not understand anything in naval affairs, took away beautiful toys from the sailors,
              These bureaucrats first liquidated the ministries and introduced economic councils, and instead of developing the Non-Black Earth region (as it was written in the Stalinist plan for the transformation of nature), they arranged a failed Virgin Land, after which they had to save on everything.
              The air defense of which is outdated even by the standards of the end of WWII.
              I didn’t write anything about air defense at all, and this defect is quite simply eliminated.
              1. 0
                19 August 2022 10: 36
                Quote: Aviator_
                The problem (for them) was that all of Western Europe was covered with our bombers, and they really didn’t reach the USA at that time

                For them this was not a problem. Western Europe for the Americans was just an advanced foothold.
                The United States was the largest owner of nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles, as well as the main opponent of the USSR. And here the picture for the USSR of the 50s was very sad - they could reach all the centers of the country at any moment (well, except for Moscow with its S-25), but we could not. Therefore, the NSH threw all its forces into ICBMs, nuclear submarines with SLBMs and air defense.
                And most importantly - why keep bombers suitable only for Western Europe, if the USSR has already had R-1959s on combat duty since 5: 32 - in 1959, 208 - in 1960, 426 - in 1961. And in 1960 on the database Shelves with R-12 stood up.
                Quote: Aviator_
                Armored artillery cruisers are good at handling coastal defense, no other modern ship is capable of this.

                The construction of artillery KRL in the 50s is like building 22160 now. The Navy cannot solve a strategic problem, and instead of solving it, it is exchanged for particulars.
                Quote: Aviator_
                Direct. By 1960, a decision was made at the highest level that there was no need to prepare for local wars.

                No. By 1960, it was decided that nuclear parity with the United States should be a priority. And all forces must be thrown to the accomplishment of this task.
                Quote: Aviator_
                These bureaucrats first liquidated the ministries and introduced economic councils, and instead of developing the Non-Black Earth region (as it was written in the Stalinist plan for the transformation of nature), they arranged a failed Virgin Land, after which they had to save on everything.

                The failure of the virgin lands (more precisely, drought and storms) is the beginning of the 60s. How can this be the reason for the reduction of the army in 1955 and the decision on the fleet of the late 50s?
                And Comrade Stalin was, of course, a great man. But the country urgently needed agricultural products. Not in n-tsat years. And it was already dangerous to keep the people in a black body longer, when there were no vegetables or milk in the stores.
                Quote: Aviator_
                I didn’t write anything about air defense at all, and this defect is quite simply eliminated.

                So why does the fleet need a cruiser without air defense?
                And this defect quite simply was not eliminated until the end of the service of most of these KRL. And the KRL projects with enhanced air defense, which could have saved their completion, were carried out by the fleet so badly that they did not even go through their own.
                1. 0
                  19 August 2022 17: 47
                  And it was already dangerous to keep the people in a black body longer, when there were no vegetables or milk in the stores.
                  And these are the fruits of the actions of the NSH. Read less whiners - village writers. According to the recollections of my parents, it was in Stalin's time that everything was in stores, including live fish. Interruptions in agricultural production began with the results of Khrushch's activities. It was he who guessed to force the collective farms to take over the maintenance of agricultural machinery from the liquidated MTS, while most of the collective farms went bankrupt. Under Joseph the Terrible, food was normal. Virgin soil is 1954. The first harvest was great. Then meager harvests, soil erosion and dust storms began - this is 1957-58.
                  But the country urgently needed agricultural products. Not in n-tsat years.
                  Here she was with Joseph. And Khrushch Kukuruzny decided that communism was also needed urgently, he succeeded with it in the same way as with agricultural products.
                  1. +2
                    21 August 2022 17: 43
                    Quote: Aviator_
                    According to the recollections of my parents, it was in Stalin's time that everything was in stores, including live fish. Interruptions in agricultural products began with the results of Khrushch's activities

                    But who argues that in the cities of the first category there was everything. And in other places
                    The situation with the food supply of the population is very unfavorable in the city. There are no food products in stores, except for wines, vodka, canned food and expensive varieties of sweets. White bread and baked goods are completely absent. There is no sugar, no cereals, no fats and sausages either, and sometimes it is even difficult to get black bread ...

                    ... I work as the chairman of the collective farm. Voroshilov at the above address since 1946. And, having worked for 7 years, from year to year I cannot provide my collective farmers with such a vital product as bread. Our collective farm reaps a good harvest year after year, the collective farmers are making every effort to grow a rich harvest and to ensure that the collective farmers themselves have bread.
                    1. 0
                      23 August 2022 20: 23
                      cities of the first category had everything. And in other places
                      The towns of Vozzhaevka (Amur Region) and Chkalov (now Orenburg) never belonged to the first category. For some reason, I trust my relatives more than the bruised by the XNUMXth Congress of the Six-Democrats.
                      1. -1
                        24 August 2022 12: 31
                        - I was in Ryazan.
                        - What's there? Interruptions?
                        - No, comrade. Stalin, no interruptions, but there has been no bread for a long time, no butter, no sausage. He himself stood in line with Larionov (secretary of the regional committee) at 6-7 in the morning, checked. There is no bread anywhere.
                        © A.A. Aristov - from the memoirs of the trip of the commission of the Central Committee to Ryazan in 1952
                      2. 0
                        27 August 2022 16: 00
                        There is a strong suspicion that Aristov wrote this in 1956. Guess the reason for this late insight.
  27. 0
    16 August 2022 18: 56
    Better late than none.
  28. 0
    16 August 2022 18: 58
    Why build. We are an open country for the whole world,” he said.
    1. -1
      16 August 2022 19: 00
      Quote: ISKANDER_61
      Why build. We are an open country for the whole world,” he said.

      Do you like the closed country better?
      Honestly, me too.
      It's time to redirect tourist flows into our vast country.
      1. +5
        16 August 2022 19: 35
        I like a sovereign country, not a closed one. I hope you understand the difference.
        1. +4
          16 August 2022 19: 51
          Quote: ISKANDER_61
          I like a sovereign country, not a closed one. I hope you understand the difference.

          Well what are you.
          Where to me, bast shoes.
          Too thin for me.

          Meanwhile, I wasn't joking about the closed country. Brains are running out, capital is running out.
          It's time to stop the mess.

          And yes. Openness does not interfere with sovereignty. If these words are understood correctly.
      2. ada
        +1
        16 August 2022 19: 56
        It’s time to send “tourists” to courses on mastering simple VES, training in actions according to civil defense and emergency plans, and some to training centers for additional training in the educational program of secondary general (full) education (to restore knowledge or teach to read, write and perform simple mathematical calculations with subsequent fees under the OBZH program, at least). wassat
        Yes, this is not humor. Yes
        1. +1
          16 August 2022 20: 00
          Quote: ada
          It's time to send "tourists" to courses on mastering simple VES, training in actions according to civil defense and emergency plans

          Think constructively, comrade. good
          This is a much more useful pastime than feeding parasites and venereal pathogens in Thailand.
          1. ada
            +1
            16 August 2022 20: 23
            Finally, I didn’t invent anything, this is a common thing for the country, known to everyone from the past, in a threatened period on the eve of a war or in a state of war for wartime. fellow
      3. Alf
        +4
        16 August 2022 21: 02
        Quote: Flood
        It's time to redirect tourist flows into our vast country.

        To do this, FIRST, you need to create conditions for the tourist and only then take money from him, and not first take contributions, but create conditions AFTER. Yes, and a normal service must be created, and not unobtrusive, as it is now.
        1. +1
          16 August 2022 22: 05
          Quote: Alf
          To do this, FIRST, you need to create conditions for the tourist, and only then take money from him

          Of course you are right.
          Moreover, the field is practically unplowed.

          Redirect not at gunpoint*
          1. Alf
            +1
            16 August 2022 22: 22
            Quote: Flood
            Moreover, the field is practically unplowed.

            Absolutely agree. In addition to creating conditions, it is also necessary to launch a powerful advertising campaign that there are places to relax in Russia, profitable and patriotic.
  29. +2
    16 August 2022 18: 58
    The construction details of such structures are not a military secret, as they were developed back in the 60s of the last century. These are reinforced concrete shelters of arched type. They consist of semi-arches with walls up to 60 cm thick and have metal gates. Outside, the structure is covered with earth and masked with turf, or even planting trees.

    And how many such structures were destroyed in Transbaikalia?! am
  30. +3
    16 August 2022 19: 14
    6 months of NWO, but they started talking about the allegedly "mass" construction of hangars for equipment only now, when they banged the airfield in sacks. all the news "look, aircraft hangars have appeared"
  31. +8
    16 August 2022 19: 33
    The start of this program was announced in the spring of last year personally by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, Sergei Shoigu.

    And what, have you already built cities in Siberia? belay
    1. Alf
      +3
      16 August 2022 21: 03
      Quote: Sovetskiy
      The start of this program was announced in the spring of last year personally by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, Sergei Shoigu.

      And what, have you already built cities in Siberia? belay

      I changed my mind, and maybe someone smart suggested that it was a dead thing.
  32. +1
    16 August 2022 19: 41
    It's time to make caponiers!!! But all this was at the airfields now abandoned by Serdyukov and Medvedev !!! Naruli shitecrats and liberals!!! am angry fool
  33. +3
    16 August 2022 19: 48
    ZhBU, in all respects, is an important and necessary structure. I know firsthand, it was possible to operate different aviation equipment at different airfields. Only positive evaluation. Security, an autonomous power supply system, the possibility of placing 1BK (AB), taxiing out of cover, reducing the influence of climatic conditions and much, much more.
    Wake up late? Perhaps, but the main problem was not hushed up.
  34. +1
    16 August 2022 20: 37
    Until the thunder struck, they did not begin to be baptized
  35. +1
    16 August 2022 20: 42
    really!!!!!! we survived comrades
    1. Alf
      +5
      16 August 2022 21: 05
      Quote: blackbeard
      really!!!!!! we survived comrades

      That's when they build it, that's when you'll rejoice. A lot of things have already been promised, but nothing ...
  36. -1
    16 August 2022 21: 35
    "The need for such structures for our airborne forces was demonstrated by the Syrian experience. It showed that aviation assets must be protected from enemy attacks not only in the air, but also on the ground."

    That is, if it were not for the Syrian experience, then the Russian military leaders would not even have guessed that aircraft equipment that was not dispersed in the open air in a row could be destroyed at once?! Either the author stirs up something from himself, or really everything is so bad in MO ....
  37. +4
    16 August 2022 21: 38
    work is underway on the mass construction of special shelters

    such caponiers were massively in the Baku air defense district back in the 70s
    1. +2
      16 August 2022 22: 04
      This is not a caponier.
      1. 0
        16 August 2022 22: 17
        Yes, you even call it a trench - the essence of the piano does not change ....
        by the way, in airfield vernacular they are called arches, caponiers, etc ....
        1. +1
          16 August 2022 22: 42
          “Call it at least a trench” - try to call it that to the builders, they will dig a trench instead of a caponier. Knowing and using terminology correctly can save a lot of time and avoid a lot of problems.
          1. -3
            17 August 2022 00: 14
            yes you are a cheap bore...
            in Sumgayit at the station Nasosnaya, there was an air defense regiment with a MiG-25 ...
            there, everyone who built these shelters called them "caponiers" ...
            and they were built by military engineers (units) with soldiers involved from different parts of the army ...
            no one had any problems either with time or with another "mass" ...
            1. -2
              17 August 2022 09: 21
              Militant illiteracy? Oh well.
      2. 0
        17 August 2022 08: 30
        If this is not a caponier, then what is it, name it. I am a builder and in my opinion this is a caponier
        1. +1
          17 August 2022 09: 07
          This is an arched shelter. What is a caponier ask yourself. I suspect that you are not a military builder, because these are the basics of field fortification, because for an amateur bunker and bunker are the same thing.
          1. +2
            17 August 2022 13: 33
            You and Wikipedia won. I was wrong. A tank caponier does not have a vault, and a caponier as a fortification does not mean that there is a tank or an aircraft inside.
            I saw arched shelters for wheeled carriers of ballistic missiles, they were built for withdrawal from Belarus, in 1990 ... 1992.
            1. +2
              17 August 2022 14: 52
              “You and Wikipedia won” - God bless me, the main thing is that you figured it out and this is now a rarity on the Internet. hi
      3. 0
        17 August 2022 10: 52
        Quote: Sergey Valov
        This is not a caponier.

        This is a semi-caponier. The caponier has exits in both directions.
  38. +3
    17 August 2022 04: 37
    It can't be... Has it really happened? Well, that is, for all these years no one has led with an ear, and they didn’t give a damn about this: “..expensive equipment will be less exposed to the vagaries of the weather and will last longer. Yes, and it will be easier and more convenient for technical staff to work with it ...” And only having received snot in the Crimea, our valiant chiefs came to an ingenious conclusion - should we spend money on shelters, and not just on "aviation darts" and other amusing things? This is great news, actually. Finally, in the north, they will stop digging out cars from under the snow once every three days .. Well, the truth is, you still have to dig out the doors to the hangars ..)))
  39. +3
    17 August 2022 06: 15
    And what, the planes were still standing under the snow? And finally, a brilliant solution .... Yes, our aviators are brave people ....
    1. +3
      17 August 2022 06: 42
      . ] Do you think something has changed a lot? )
  40. +1
    17 August 2022 08: 28
    A long time ago they learned how to make concrete structures 12, 18, 24 meters in flight in the factory version, there are no technical problems at all. You need money and the will to do it.
  41. 0
    17 August 2022 08: 40
    It has long been necessary to do this.
  42. -1
    17 August 2022 10: 03
    Oh really? Do not you say? (although I’m scared to write comments already)
  43. +1
    17 August 2022 10: 58
    Until the thunder breaks out, a fool will not be forced to pray to God.
  44. +2
    17 August 2022 11: 02
    Serdyukov was mentioned here. You can see what Shoigu himself spent on defense budgets.
    In St. Petersburg, after the relocation of the Naval Corps of Peter the Great to Kronstadt, the Historical and Cultural Center of the Navy will be located in its building. This was announced on Wednesday during the last meeting on the construction of objects of the Ministry of Defense, the correspondent of 78.ru reports.

    According to Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, since 2013, the ministry has built and reconstructed more than 60 buildings in the city on the Neva, spending more than a trillion rubles on this. The Suvorov Military School, the Military Institute of Physical Culture, the Museum of Artillery, Engineering and Signal Corps were reconstructed,

    This news is from 2018. That is, so much was spent in St. Petersburg alone in just 5-6 years. Trillion rubles.

    It is difficult to say how much the Ministry of Defense is building shelters for aircraft. Suppose one hundred million rubles for one shelter. Then ten thousand of them could be built for a trillion rubles.
  45. 0
    17 August 2022 12: 42
    Why did none of the commentators write that there are missiles that pierce these reinforced concrete shelters?
    1. +1
      17 August 2022 16: 11
      There is. And there are atomic bombs. But the cost of such a blow is a hundred times higher. It's one thing when a terrorist group arrives with a car, and another thing when you need to overcome air defense with missiles.
      In addition, shelters need to be built with a margin, it is not necessary to make thick walls if the enemy needs to shy away 10 times more.
  46. 0
    17 August 2022 13: 25
    Who will pay for the delay of the mind?
  47. +1
    17 August 2022 13: 25
    They would make at least three times more canopies from a profiled sheet than airplanes and helicopters. For camouflage, decoys and against rain and wind. It's fast and worth every penny.
  48. +4
    17 August 2022 13: 32
    June 22, 1941 did not teach anything
  49. +2
    17 August 2022 13: 51
    As in a joke:
    ... And on the third day, they discovered that one wall was missing in the barn ...
    And so they were saved! winked
  50. +1
    17 August 2022 14: 32
    Here! The generals saw the pictures Civil spacecraft about our troops on the outskirts and began the initial camouflage of aircraft objects .. So you see, new take-offs will initially be built under anti-satellite protection and disguised as terrain
  51. +3
    17 August 2022 16: 08
    And a dozen more false shelters nearby.
  52. -2
    17 August 2022 17: 27
    Quote: Jackson
    And for this, many thanks to Mr. Serdyukov. How much he destroyed and disbanded, only he probably knows ...

    Serdyukov is a completely successful special operation of Putin. Even a brilliant special operation. It’s a pity that “Serdyukov” was not found in the Northern Military District in Ukraine.
  53. 0
    17 August 2022 17: 37
    Quote: Alf
    Quote: azkolt
    No matter how many times I come here, I am always surprised at what minds disappear here without benefit for the Motherland!

    You're laughing in vain. Those who were dragging the service, and not serving, gathered here, and they saw, knew and did "as expected", and looking at how it is now, they can’t say anything but swearing.

    These were probably here about 10 years ago, then yes, it was cool to read! There were showdowns, not in the sense of swearing, but real ones, discussions of technical characteristics and so on. There was one from Ukraine, as I remember right now, a tank driver, he did great reviews, it’s a pity, he disappeared a long time ago. Now the site has degenerated, it seems that the majority here are ordinary loudmouths who, at least here, will receive badges higher than sergeant!
    1. Alf
      0
      17 August 2022 19: 58
      Quote: azkolt
      There was one from Ukraine, as I remember right now, a tank driver, he did great reviews, it’s a pity, he disappeared a long time ago.

      Kars appeared recently, but you are right, it happens extremely rarely. I hope he wasn't mobilized.
  54. +1
    17 August 2022 17: 39
    Quote: DenVB
    Serdyukov was mentioned here. You can see what Shoigu himself spent on defense budgets.
    In St. Petersburg, after the relocation of the Naval Corps of Peter the Great to Kronstadt, the Historical and Cultural Center of the Navy will be located in its building. This was announced on Wednesday during the last meeting on the construction of objects of the Ministry of Defense, the correspondent of 78.ru reports.

    According to Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, since 2013, the ministry has built and reconstructed more than 60 buildings in the city on the Neva, spending more than a trillion rubles on this. The Suvorov Military School, the Military Institute of Physical Culture, the Museum of Artillery, Engineering and Signal Corps were reconstructed,

    This news is from 2018. That is, so much was spent in St. Petersburg alone in just 5-6 years. Trillion rubles.

    It is difficult to say how much the Ministry of Defense is building shelters for aircraft. Suppose one hundred million rubles for one shelter. Then ten thousand of them could be built for a trillion rubles.

    A matter of priority! Maybe you don’t need Suvorov schools, but if so, then why use shelters? Who will fly if there are no flyers?
  55. 0
    17 August 2022 18: 53
    these shelters should have been “already yesterday”!
  56. +1
    18 August 2022 00: 33
    In general, we need to build something like the former Zhilyava airbase in Yugoslavia. Then everything will be cool. And yes, the equipment should have been covered the day before yesterday....
  57. +2
    18 August 2022 04: 17
    thunder will not strike, the man will not cross himself. why was it so difficult to figure out how to build a protected shelter costing less than 1/1000 of its price to store an aircraft worth tens of millions of dollars? but no, even in the front line they didn’t scratch the surface before the Ukrainian strikes. It feels like the entire system in the Russian Federation works exclusively reactively from a kick - like they received a blow, and only after that they began to think about how to parry it. both in the economy and in the military sphere.
  58. +1
    18 August 2022 10: 38
    Quote: skeptic
    At Western airfields, the planes are spaced out in such a way that, even if one wants to, more than one plane - a missile - cannot be destroyed.

    How is this possible for them? Other physical principles of airfields?
  59. -1
    18 August 2022 12: 01
    what special shelters are needed? I have an airfield with empty caponiers next to my house. How many such abandoned military airfields are there? The caponiers are heavily overgrown with forest... and the meter-thick double-leaf gates are all intact... only the electric motor for the opening drive was stolen after 30 years of neglect...
    1. 0
      19 August 2022 13: 46
      Quote from moneron
      what special shelters are needed? I have an airfield with empty caponiers next to my house. How many such abandoned military airfields are there? The caponiers are heavily overgrown with forest... and the meter-thick double-leaf gates are all intact... only the electric motor for the opening drive was stolen after 30 years of neglect...

      The giraffe is big, he knows better!
  60. 0
    18 August 2022 15: 59
    "Construction work..")
  61. The comment was deleted.