Tanks of the special operation "Z": criticism of the British analytical report

102

Source: vk.com

The main striking force of the army


Tank troops have always been and remain the main striking force of the ground forces. No matter how trite it sounds, it is the ground units that ensure victory over the enemy. As long as the infantry does not occupy the territory, there can be no talk of any tactical or operational success. And the first assistants to the infantry are not even artillery, but tankers. "Special Operation Z", which unfolds in front of us literally online, perfectly illustrates this thesis. Even taking into account all the tragic materials that come from Ukraine, it is safe to say that Russian tanks take out a large part of the hostilities. And they do it at a high level.






Source: vk.com

Now, according to the resonant report of the Royal Joint Institute for Defense Studies “Technical Reflections on Russian Armored Fighting Vehicles”, in which the British tried to speak rather derogatoryly about Russian armored vehicles. They say that the stabilization system of the tank gun is weak, and the side armor leaves much to be desired. To begin with, it is worth deciding what has been happening in Ukraine since February 24 of this year. By all indications, hostilities are unfolding there, the analogues of which have not been seen since 1945. Yes exactly.

Never before have two industrial powers confronted each other over such a vast territory and with the use of all available conventional weapons. Operational-tactical missiles are used, and volleys of Hurricanes and Tornadoes are becoming commonplace. Western analysts, who are now savoring every destroyed Russian tank, forget that NATO armies have never even tried to participate in something like this throughout their existence. Neither Vietnam, nor Korea, nor Iraq, and even more so Afghanistan can not be compared with "Special Operation Z". Someone will remember the Falklands War in 1982. But it was strictly a local conflict, not spreading to the territory of Great Britain and Argentina.

By the way, the “war of 08.08.08” was the last example when countries with regular, trained and fairly well-equipped armies clashed in battle. For several years before the conflict, NATO members had pumped up Georgia with weapons and competencies, intending to soon accept it into their military bloc. NATO countries in the latest stories fought against an enemy that was several steps lower in technological development. In Afghanistan, in general, the war was actually with the country of the XVIII-XIX centuries.

Any analytics should make at least minimal comparisons. And with what to compare the successes or failures of Russian tanks in Ukraine in 2022? Absolutely nothing, especially since Ukrainian nationalists can use the widest range of means against armored vehicles.

The authors of the report from the Royal Joint Institute for Defense Studies should have asked themselves the question: how would the vaunted Challenger 2 behave in the Ukrainian theater of war? It would be nice to simulate a situation where a 62-ton colossus, moving along a highway at a speed of no more than 30–40 km / h, receives a Stugna missile on board. Especially if it very successfully enters the ammunition load of a British vehicle. For reference: the Ukrainian ATGM hits up to 800 mm of armor behind dynamic protection.

Russian means bad?


The British, of course, are not the only ones who, from the beginning of the special operation, began to discredit Russian tanks. In April, the American Popular Mechanics unexpectedly made the T-72 and T-80 into the top five worst armored vehicles of our time. Previously, this pair of tanks was included in the "top 5" edition. The best, in American opinion, of course, was the M1 Abrams. Propagandists from a once respected magazine, in all seriousness, cite a voracious gas turbine engine in the list of cons of the T-80. There is not a word in the "analytics" about the problems with fuel logistics that the much less economical M1 Abrams engine creates. Now in the West it is customary to talk about the inferiority of Russian weapons solely on the basis of the fact that they are Russian.

The performance of Russian armored vehicles and the US military are assessed in their own way. In particular, Lieutenant General Carsten Heckl, Deputy Commander of the Marine Corps for Combat Development and Integration, once again became convinced of the correctness of the refusal of the Marines from tanks. Americans are greatly impressed by photographs of destroyed Russian and Ukrainian equipment.

Recall that, in accordance with the new concept, the US Marines will no longer have M1 Abrams - light armored vehicles will come to replace them. A rather controversial statement, given the contribution that Russian tanks made, in particular, to the capture of Mariupol. That is, the US military, albeit indirectly, confirms that sensitive losses of armored vehicles in such conflicts are inevitable. And the point here is not at all in the mythical lag of Russian tanks from Western standards, but in the intensity of hostilities. When the enemy is equipped with ATGMs and grenade launchers of all stripes, the difficulties of using tanks increase manifold. Even if it's the "best in the world" M1 Abrams.

Let's return to the notorious "Technical Reflections". The level of the British "analytics" of the Royal Institute very characteristically conveys a comparison of the weapon stabilization systems of Russian tanks with Western models. An example is given with a beer mug, which, without spilling, rolled on the barrel of a Leopard-2 at one of the military reviews in Germany. And the Russian one, they say, is not capable of this, simply because British researchers did not observe shooting from the move in the Ukrainian chronicle. Well, or because they didn’t deliver beer mugs at the tank biathlon.

The disadvantage is the presence of only three people in the crew. According to British experts, this seriously complicates the repair of failed equipment. The automatic loader got negative, which somehow negatively affects the accuracy of the tank gun. Of the platitudes - a vulnerable ammunition rack that detonates when hit on the side, and weak armor of Russian tanks in all projections, except for the frontal one. It remains to wait for the authors of the report to answer the question of which foreign tank, except, perhaps, the Israeli Merkava, is capable of providing equal protection from at least three angles.

You can remind respected "analysts" about the Turkish Leopard-2A4TRs, which the terrorists burned in Syria. And the towers of the German "cats" flew no worse than the Ukrainian or Russian ones. But here, of course, it’s a completely different matter - NATO military analysts in no way blame the design flaws of the Leopard-2 series, but exclusively negligent Turkish military command. They say that the terrain was chosen unsuccessful, and infantry support was not provided, and artillery was not previously plowed all around. At the same time, the terrorists opposing the Turks in Syria used outdated Soviet-made ATGMs. Compare this to the anti-tank arsenal of Ukrainian fighters. However, an adequate part of the NATO military admits that the latest Leopard-2A7 + and Leopard-2A7V are not able to withstand a blow to the side even by an outdated Kornet.

Tanks do not write off yet


Now about the systems of active protection of armored vehicles, which Western experts often talk about. In particular, about the Trophy, which has become literally a panacea for NATO members from guided anti-tank missiles. Here we move away from the analysis of the report "Technical Reflections on Russian Armored Fighting Vehicles" and consider the materials of the British edition of Global Defense Technology, which is published by the Royal Joint Institute for Defense Studies mentioned above.

The headline of the magazine is "Don't write off tanks just yet", designed to reassure the Western public, impressed by the photo and video evidence of destroyed armored vehicles in Ukraine. The material mentions an advertising campaign by Rafal, which positions its Trophy as a universal remedy against recoilless rifles, anti-tank missiles, high-explosive anti-tank shells and RPGs. The Germans plan to equip their Leopards with active protection, and the British new Challenger 3.

However, examples of urban fighting in Ukraine cast doubt on the effectiveness. For example, Ben Barry, a senior fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies on ground combat operations, reasonably notes:

"Due to the fact that the radar and other components of the system are outside the tank, they can be attacked by machine guns, artillery and artillery fire."

Considering how tattered domestic tanks come out of urban battles in Ukraine, it can be assumed that such protection will be effective until the first serious clash.

A tank is always a set of compromises, and it is necessary to understand what is better - to spend resources on the expensive Arena-M or Afghanit, or to radically strengthen the side projections and the roof of the tank? Albeit due to a decrease in mobility, coupled with an increase in mass.




The tank received several hits (the type of ammunition is not known for certain), but survived. Source: vk.com





The legendary T-72B3 of the tankers Buba and Kasik after being blown up by an anti-tank mine. The crew is alive and well. Source: everstti-rymin.livejournal.com

And finally, the main question posed by British authors is whether it is possible to speak of the decline of tanks based on the experience of the Ukrainian conflict? As it turned out, no. Simply because there is nothing to change the tank for. All light vehicles, even as perfect as the modular Boxer 8x8 infantry fighting vehicle, are completely underarmored. If even simple grenade launchers in the city can seriously complicate the life of tankers, then they are like death to all other armored vehicles.

At the same time, domestically developed tanks have repeatedly demonstrated amazing resistance to the most modern weapons - the vehicles remained in service after several hits, for example, by NLAW missiles. Most importantly, the presence of a 125-mm cannon in Russian armored vehicles does not allow the British to talk about abandoning tanks: not a single light vehicle can withstand a confrontation with such a weapon. Only the tank has a chance. Be that as it may, on the experience of "Special Operation Z" we will soon see a new round of military engineering, but more on that another time.
102 comments
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  1. +16
    15 May 2022 04: 06
    What is the article about? It seems to me that the author is more of a propagandist than a technical specialist. negative
    1. IVZ
      +42
      15 May 2022 07: 47
      Whoever the author is, there is nothing to object to on the merits of the article, and then there is no need to get personal.
      1. AUL
        +6
        15 May 2022 08: 16
        Against the multiplication table, too, do not mind. Especially where x1!
        1. IVZ
          +1
          15 May 2022 11: 49
          Is that supposed to be stressful?
    2. +15
      15 May 2022 08: 51
      In essence, the author writes everything correctly.
      Are the opinions of English people valuable, etc.?
      "partner" experts, who not only did not compare the stiffness and degree of damping of the Challenger STV and T!-72 or T-90, but also hardly know what it is. And they also don’t know that the accuracy of barrel stabilization is not as critical as the stabilization of mirrors in the sight, because there is such a thing as a shotgun resolution zone ...
      And, in general, what can unfired NATO instructors teach dill? Only the handling of a specific imported model of weapons, but not the tactics and combat use of the same MBT in this war.
      1. +5
        15 May 2022 11: 05
        Lord, yes, "British scientists" have already set their teeth on edge for the whole world. Analyzers have also appeared.
      2. +8
        15 May 2022 13: 34
        The analysis of "British scientists" is intended for the general public.
        Behind closed doors, the analysis is different.
        If I'm wrong so much the worse for them
        :)
    3. +20
      15 May 2022 09: 03
      Weak side armor ??) and which European tank has a side thicker than 80mm ?????
      1. 0
        16 May 2022 11: 17
        Who is talking about what, and the British woman is talking about nasty things!
        Who would mumble about a glass of wine or a mug of beer on the barrel of a tank gun.
        It seems that any of the Challengers, Merkav, Abrams or Leclercs fulfilled exactly the same fate as our T-shki.
        Yet our T-necks over the past decades have been the most warring tanks on the planet. And in modern combat against ATGMs and ATGMs, the West generally has 0 experience.
        1. -1
          16 May 2022 13: 38
          I realized they compared the thickness of the side armor with churchill !! blyinn
    4. -5
      15 May 2022 14: 58
      The author is more p-zd-bol about nothing and a little about everything.
  2. +4
    15 May 2022 04: 22
    Who would doubt, each frog praises its swamp.
  3. +29
    15 May 2022 04: 47
    An example is given with a beer mug, which, without spilling, rolled on the barrel of a Leopard-2 at one of the military reviews in Germany. And the Russian, they say, is not capable of this,
    Well, here it’s more worth talking about Soviet tank building. let's get a look
    Here are the footage from Leo-2

    But the Soviet T-64

    By the way, if this was repeated on the T-80 with a gas turbine engine, it would be possible to shoot a video even better ...
  4. -8
    15 May 2022 04: 50
    Only it began to seem to me alone that a special operation is a war with unknown goals, it is not known with whom, it is not known why, and without end? What are the tanks...
    1. +6
      15 May 2022 06: 46
      Quote: avia12005
      Only it began to seem to me alone that a special operation is a war with unknown goals, it is not known with whom, it is not known why, and without end? What are the tanks...

      Believe not only you.
      It's just that most of those who are sure that everything is going according to plan are afraid to admit to themselves that the General Staff plan has long been covered with a copper basin.
      1. +16
        15 May 2022 12: 25
        It is impossible to come up with a plan that can be held up throughout the war.
        It's like in chess, you can choose only the opening and stick to it strictly, and then it's pure improvisation, depending on the opponent's actions.
        In this war, the debut stage has already passed.
        1. +12
          15 May 2022 16: 24
          Quote: trenkkvaz
          Can't come up with such a plan, which can be held throughout the war.

          In my opinion, the President of Russia quite transparently outlined the goals of the SO (in reality, the war between the West and Russia by the forces of the Ukronazis): denazification and demilitarization.
          And it is not for couch analysts to judge what is happening where bullets whistle and mines explode. The most ordinary Donetsk grandmother has more rights to this.
          Surprisingly incomprehensible are the pace of accomplishment of tasks with the weapons available in abundance and superiority in the sky. The conditions that Russia finds itself in are difficult and have economic and political consequences that are difficult to reverse.
          This is not chess at all. Here, a bloody meat grinder can put the final dot on all "I". It is today that the entire state apparatus and citizens of the country are being checked ...
          In this sense, it is unbearably bitter to read how local officials in PEACE CONDITIONS allow catastrophic situations in the form of fires and other cases harmful to the economy.
          1. +7
            15 May 2022 18: 59
            You are confusing completely different concepts of goal and plan.
            In chess, the goal is to checkmate or draw. But it is impossible to have a plan for the whole game how to do this.
            Obviously, limited planning is now taking place to achieve intermediate goals. But all this happens in the course of the war, based on the actions of the enemy. And therefore it cannot be said that they came up with some kind of plan for the entire war and strictly adhere to it. This is impossible!
        2. 0
          16 May 2022 04: 10
          ... and then pure improvisation, depending on the actions of the enemy.

          and then pure improvisation, depending on the actions of the enemy.

          And how pure improvisation answers avia12005's question
          ... a war with unknown goals, it is not known with whom, it is not known why, and without end?
      2. +2
        16 May 2022 00: 35
        I don’t support any of the points of opinion, I want to note))))) not only the majority here, but absolutely everyone here does not know the General Staff plan and the general idea))))))
      3. +1
        18 May 2022 18: 14
        There are tactics and strategies. Tactics are actions depending on the situation, can change constantly. Strategy - strategic goals are unchanged. The plans of the General Staff of Russia cannot be covered with a copper basin, since the tasks are carried out and simply, depending on this or that counteraction, suitable decisions are made to stop threats. It happens faster or slower, but the tasks are completed, the Ukrainian, the most combat-ready troops in the strategic direction, with their maximum losses, are crushed by artillery and aviation, and the losses of their troops are minimal. As I understand it, those who are dissatisfied with the actions of the General Staff of Russia did not serve in the army. Well, or they need to lich the nervous system and learn endurance.
  5. +11
    15 May 2022 04: 58
    in accordance with the new concept, the US Marines will no longer have M1 Abrams - light armored vehicles will come to replace them. A rather controversial statement, given the contribution that Russian tanks made, in particular, to the capture of Mariupol

    This decision was, if not correct, then containing at least some kind of meaning.

    Everyone is tired of the situation with the grouping, which duplicates the tasks of the ground forces, with a lack of heavy weapons. 400 abrams per 150 employees of the ILC

    With the advent of a new commander, these Augean stables began to be raked and they came up with a more or less intelligible task for the ILC, justifying the existence of the Corps.

    They did not dare to completely liquidate the structure, transferring personnel to the subordination of the Army. In return, they were offered to prepare for battles on the islands and atolls of the Pacific Ocean. By creating and holding a defensive perimeter against China. And not so much about amphibious assaults. Equip positions and fire rockets at ships from the shore. Tanks are not needed on the atolls. For the ILC, they are now preparing specific weapons

    Marine Corps is a well-established but incorrect translation.

    Marines Corps - overseas corps, away from home. The concept of emnip, which was born back in England in the 17-18 centuries, when ships sailed, and going to war on another continent meant a long time. And we needed those who agree to such conditions
    1. +8
      15 May 2022 13: 00
      Quote: Santa Fe
      Marines Corps - overseas corps, away from home.

      If away from home, then the corps is called expeditionary. Marine Expeditionary Force. The US Marines have 3 of them. Not all of the ILC is outside the United States itself.
      And the word "Marine" in meaning can be translated as "delivered by sea" or "sea landing".
      1. +2
        16 May 2022 02: 40
        And the word "Marine" in meaning can be translated as "delivered by sea"

        I used the word "overseas" as the closest in meaning. You found an even clearer definition
  6. +19
    15 May 2022 05: 02
    The author is infinitely far from the topic under discussion, and undertakes to judge issues
    in which it makes absolutely no sense. No.
    Here is just one of his gems:
    the latest Leopard-2A7 + and Leopard-2A7V are not able to withstand a blow to the side even obsolete "Cornet".

    Since when did our best ATGM "Kornet" with armor penetration of more than 1000 mm behind the DZ become obsolete?
    1. +13
      15 May 2022 05: 47
      Maybe year of development? Started development over 40 years ago. Adopted over 20 years ago.
      1. +8
        15 May 2022 06: 16
        Quote: -Paul-
        Maybe year of development? Started development over 40 years ago. Adopted over 20 years ago.

        So the American Javelin was put into service even earlier than the Cornet. Anyway, we don’t have anything better and the newest of the wearable-portable anti-tank systems now in the troops.
    2. +5
      15 May 2022 08: 11
      They took it right off the tongue. Moreover, it is constantly being upgraded.
      1. +8
        15 May 2022 09: 57
        high-explosive anti-tank projectiles

        what kind of beast is this?
        1. +2
          15 May 2022 15: 04
          Quote: novel xnumx
          what kind of beast is this?
          A new perversion - a single projectile, cumulative and high-explosive fragmentation in one body.
          1. +4
            15 May 2022 17: 38
            anti-radar functions are provided?
            1. +1
              15 May 2022 20: 11
              No. Not yet.
  7. -2
    15 May 2022 05: 27
    Recall that in accordance with the new concept, the US Marines will no longer have M1 Abrams - light armored vehicles will come to replace them.


    With such thinking, Amers will soon switch to jihad mobiles. laughing
  8. +12
    15 May 2022 05: 40
    Where is the analytics?
    1. +16
      15 May 2022 05: 59
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      Analytics:

      "It's good with tanks, it's bad without tanks"! hi
      1. +4
        15 May 2022 09: 58
        not at all! Volodya hi
        1. +6
          15 May 2022 10: 03
          And with good tanks - better than with bad ones! Roma hi
  9. kig
    +7
    15 May 2022 05: 54
    I read the article (thanks to the author for advertising) and, frankly, I did not find any sedition there. Some they praised, some they didn't like. But if you read some reviews, even here on VO, you can find much more negative words and opinions.
  10. +29
    15 May 2022 06: 29
    We expected that there would be a war of the 21st century. Where exactly the Russian army will lead it. When tanks will go under the cover of active defense systems, and aviation with guided missiles will destroy enemy artillery, not even letting it stick out its nose. Where drones will hang over every corner, and our troops will receive real-time information about the enemy. Instead, we see footage of a tank in an open field being fired from different directions, or where a Ukrainian ATGM operator, sitting safely in front of a remote control screen, fires a projectile at a target.
    And then the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation shows us propaganda in the style of the program I Serve the Soviet Union, where exactly 3 seconds are allotted for combat work and not a damn thing is visible.
    You remember how the generals were shot at 41 and you understand that it looks like it was the case.
    1. +9
      15 May 2022 06: 53
      Only in our case there will be no rastrels. Even from positions will not be removed, but will be rewarded. It's all about who and how writes reports to the top. If you write everything correctly, then any retreat, defeat, flooding can be described in such a light that all the heroes, all will be awarded and promoted in rank.
    2. +13
      15 May 2022 08: 13
      Yes. Let's add here the aviation, which is careful with the destruction of targets, fearing the remaining Ragul air defense, since it practically does not have high-precision planning ASPs. I remember that adherents of "Hephaestus" and Soviet cast irons were constantly spinning around here, who declared with inexhaustible optimism that we do not need an analogue of JDAM.
      Here is the result.
    3. -1
      18 May 2022 11: 09
      And what about the propaganda?
      Have you seen enough Hollywood films about the "American" war?
      Alas, you.
      In war, not only is it impossible to carry out remote destruction of all opponents, there is still dirt, blood, lice, lack of fuel and electricity supply. And other joys...
      And yes, a single tank, without infantry cover - scrap metal.
      And no matter how much you would like to, losses in a high-intensity battle cannot be avoided.
      This special operation is grief for mothers, but also happiness that experience is gained with an enemy strong, but not the most equipped and skillful. And the losses, in a speculative comparison with the 41st, are minimal.
      And, yes, the purge of the generals, and not only, is yet to be
  11. +5
    15 May 2022 06: 37
    the British tried to speak rather derogatoryly about Russian armored vehicles
    It would be strange if the British suddenly began to praise our armored vehicles. It's a nice thing to harass a potential adversary without paying attention to your own shortcomings.
  12. +14
    15 May 2022 07: 45
    Thundering with fire, sparkling with the brilliance of steel, Almaty did not go on a furious campaign ...
    1. +8
      15 May 2022 10: 30
      At the cost of World Cup 18, it was possible to build a thousand Armats.
      But then I was convinced that the Mundial would raise the author of Russia to heaven.
      I would like to ask a question to those uryaklas - have they raised the authority of the country?
      These uryakly and now here, have not gone away. Yes, you remember them. hi
      1. +8
        15 May 2022 10: 49
        Stadiums, we will fight .. laughing hi And show Almaty in parades, like the T-35, in due time.
        These uryakly and now here, have not gone away.
        ..On the news, LADIES, he said another stupidity, in the comments cheers, stupidity.
    2. -1
      15 May 2022 15: 17
      And why, for what purposes "Armata"? Where is her goal? BMP? Or dot? Or the floor of "Khrushchev"? It was created to counter armored vehicles in the first place. The same "Leclercs" and "Leopards". Moreover, such equipment is brought up over the years and then modernized for decades.

      So that in the very first battle she was dragged off to Fort Knox and carefully studied there?
      Remind me what was the result of the "Citadel" when ours were aware of both the technical aspects and tactics of using the "Tigers", which were absolutely mediocrely thrown into battle in the swamps near Leningrad?
      By the way, in the question of the expediency of their use in that theater of operations, I immediately have suspicions, and was there any of the spies / traitors / sympathizers in the German command?
  13. +7
    15 May 2022 07: 49
    Quote: leks
    Only in our case there will be no rastrels. Even from positions will not be removed, but will be rewarded. It's all about who and how writes reports to the top. If you write everything correctly, then any retreat, defeat, flooding can be described in such a light that all the heroes, all will be awarded and promoted in rank.

    Then we tryndets as a country
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +6
      15 May 2022 09: 40
      Let's not lie at least to ourselves and engage in self-deception!
      Understand that over the past decade there has been a trend that telling the truth or not telling the truth has become the norm. The truth is not listed now.
      You look at the statistics of different ministries, all the statistics are good: unemployment is minimal, inflation is minimal, the average salary is 40-50 thousand, medicine is at its best, there are no analogues in the world, the best electronic warfare, the best Tanks, the best Ships, the best missiles, etc. etc.
      Criticism of the government and the president in the media is prohibited, although in the United States they almost pour water over a can with slop and openly laugh at it, and no one gets a criminal case.
      In the army, everything is the same, it is a closed organization!
      Not a single General, Admiral, Colonel will ever admit that, due to his criminal negligence and stupid orders, they died and burned the equipment or drowned the ship.
      Because they are snickering millionaires and most of them have forgotten what they were taught at the academy. They do not need this war, because they lived so well on full state security on kickbacks, etc., etc. A beautiful and expensive car, a dacha, an apartment house, a decent bank account. Children, grandchildren, wife and mistresses are provided for decades to come.
      And then you understand whether the war violated all plans.
      I can't speak for everyone, and I can't!
      There are literate people there, especially the junior command staff, because they are directly at the forefront.
      Who are trying to change at least something and reach out to the General Staff.
      Somehow I listened to one serviceman "he served in the army for a fixed term and an extended term a couple of years ago he returned, there he had seen enough of such lawlessness and bungling that he understood if there was a war, then we were finished, all hope for a nuclear cudgel."
      I do not know and do not understand what will happen next with this NWO, but unofficial news from the theater is alarming.
      All of us are getting bolder and bolder and more and more often they are trying or conducting offensive operations.
      1. -4
        15 May 2022 19: 41
        Quote: leks
        Not a single General, Admiral, Colonel will ever admit that, due to his criminal negligence and stupid orders, they died and burned the equipment or drowned the ship.
        Because they are fried millionaires

        Something changed since the USSR?
        There was a country of the USSR - the whole army swore an oath her, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the KGB.
        Where did she go?
        Did any of the admirals, generals, colonels shoot themselves from the shame of betraying the country? Not in war, in peacetime they simply betrayed her and that's it ...
        Everyone held on to their seat / dacha / rations / car and no one cared about the country ......
  14. +9
    15 May 2022 08: 15
    The only thing I liked about the article is the photo in the title.
    And everything is simpler this way, you need to use the technique correctly and wisely, and with ... you can ... break it.
    1. -12
      15 May 2022 11: 50
      The photo is good, but the flag of the USSR is not the topic.
      1. R
        +10
        15 May 2022 12: 45
        that's just the flag of the USSR is not the topic.

        The guys on the tank, unlike you, don't think so.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  15. +12
    15 May 2022 08: 37
    Recall that in accordance with the new concept, the US Marines will no longer have M1 Abrams - light armored vehicles will come to replace them.

    Tanks are a classic, but they must be used wisely. With reconnaissance, after the powerful work of artillery and aviation, tanks direct fire finishes the remaining targets, while only briefly appearing in the zone of possible return fire.
  16. 0
    15 May 2022 08: 41
    Criticize - do not criticize:
    You will still get ... the fundamental need to re-equip armored units with Armata or T-90M (simply due to the fact that other tanks will not be able to fight Abrams or Merkavas on equal terms due to weak shells). As well as heavy infantry fighting vehicles on a tank chassis and infantry fighting vehicles with the possibility of multi-channel fire.
    1. +3
      15 May 2022 15: 18
      Why make some kind of superweapon out of Abrams and Merkav? It is one thing to fight the natives, another thing to fight the regular army. Fight for example Israel with Turkey - the result would be different. Well, do not forget how many cheap RPGs burned expensive Abrams and Merkavs.
      1. 0
        15 May 2022 17: 17
        how many cheap RPGs burned expensive Abrams and Merkav

        How much? What was the consumption of grenades and grenade launchers?
        1. 0
          15 May 2022 19: 57
          Well, according to tradition, tandem on board.
      2. 0
        16 May 2022 06: 43
        Quote from: lianozovomsk1
        Fight, for example, Israel with Turkey - the result was different

        The same as with Syria in Lebanon in 1982. Only they would have destroyed the Turkish air defense even faster, but they would not have knocked out the Ottoman aviation so painlessly for themselves. And then - all the same - shooting hundreds of enemy tanks from the air. Turkish Air Force against Heil Avir - about nothing.
        1. 0
          16 May 2022 16: 23
          Somehow you are too dismissive of the Turkish army.
          1. 0
            16 May 2022 20: 16
            The Turkish army is very modern and the Ottomans themselves are excellent fighters, but their air defense in 1982 was worse than the Syrian one in Lebanon, the Air Force is better, but significantly inferior to the Israeli one (as it is now). The Turks have a good fleet, but Israeli superiority in the Air Force (+ their own anti-ship missiles) does not veil all this. As a result, I think that my forecast is quite accurate - the Syrians in 1982 had air defense built in the image of the Soviet one in the GDR with Soviet military advisers at the division level and above. It was destroyed in a day or two thanks to the use of a bunch of UAV-DRLOiU-long-range artillery / aviation. The Israelis developed the same system for the Turks in the early 90s, during a period of dark cooperation between countries that lasted until Erdogan came to power.
  17. 0
    15 May 2022 09: 05
    Tanks do not write off yet
    . And who can explain, show how a tank can be replaced on the battlefield ???
  18. +3
    15 May 2022 09: 07
    Personally, I have no complaints about our T72 / 90 tanks, except for the washed-out reverse speed. In this regard, the T80 clearly wins.
  19. -14
    15 May 2022 09: 16
    Dear, don't cry. A little more time will pass and they will definitely tell you that the T-72B will not hit my head against the wall, but a white swan!)
    1. R
      +6
      15 May 2022 12: 48
      Dear, don't cry. A little more time will pass and they will definitely tell you that the T-72B will not hit my head against the wall, but a white swan!)

      Are you smelling the same road with Yelensky? ))
  20. 0
    15 May 2022 09: 40
    in short, the tank needs all-round protection, from all sides .....
  21. +3
    15 May 2022 09: 45
    Just grumble.
    The title of the article contains the phrase - "criticism of the British analytical report."
    The report cannot criticize, even if it is analytical and, moreover, British. The report may contain criticism, or something else, for example, reflect criticism.
  22. +7
    15 May 2022 10: 09
    "Stugna" began to "pierce" 800 after the Germans recalculated armor penetration according to Western methods. Before that it was 550-600.
  23. +1
    15 May 2022 10: 27
    Author, can you link to the article?
    1. kig
      +3
      15 May 2022 11: 28
      https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/technical-reflections-russias-armoured-fighting-vehicles
      1. 0
        15 May 2022 11: 47
        Thanks for the link
        1. kig
          0
          15 May 2022 13: 15
          Health hi
  24. -10
    15 May 2022 10: 27
    Oh, the couch experts got excited, oh come on, everything is wrong, not the same and not that, smart as ducks, but in their hands the spoons did not hold anything ...
    1. R
      +5
      15 May 2022 12: 52
      smart as ducks

      Well, let's say you didn't say anything clever either. Something at the level of kindergarten names)) And why are you better than other couch experts?
  25. 0
    15 May 2022 10: 31
    Stupidly - all current conflicts are carried out with the participation of tanks. And yet - KAZ was not tested in battles. Maximum - they drove a dozen Arabs, and then the cases are isolated. So until the combat run-in passes, there is nothing to talk about
  26. +7
    15 May 2022 11: 14
    Our army is now actually at a crossroads, when, on the one hand, it is still armed with a significant amount of Soviet equipment (T-72 is a classic example), on the other hand, in this operation, the army is largely represented by contract soldiers and specialists (excluding volunteers and people's militia ) . Soviet equipment was created on the basis of slightly different requirements - it was created for mass mobilization, and often its individual combat qualities are NOT IDEAL, in contrast to the Western technical approach, which postulates the high value, complexity and cost of each military product (I'm talking specifically about tanks).
    That is, I am leading to the fact that Soviet equipment was not suitable for the PROFESSIONAL CONTRACT army, frankly, not particularly, in this regard, the tank evolution that we would like to see is developing "Armata" is completely clear to me. A more piece and professionally oriented product, great opportunities, under a deeply professional crew, the rescue and protection of which and working conditions are given unlike more attention than in Soviet projects.

    The T-72 cannot be called a "bad tank", it can no longer be called an "excellent tank" either - after all, the project is 50 years old, the vehicle was created at a different time, to different requirements, in an era of dominance of other ideas about design, threats, crew awareness, high-precision weapons and so on.
    A lot of this is happening now, unfortunately.
    This does not mean that another tank would have done better in this case - no. Often the success of the application of technology does not depend on the properties of the technology, but on the thoughtfulness of the plan and personnel. Take the German tanks of the beginning of BB2 - they were essentially lousy cars that did not differ in any kind of super-quality against the background of existing analogues.
    But at the moment we have not flashed tactical and strategic genius, and our tank equipment in terms of performance characteristics does not represent an "absolute weapon" - and we have what we have.
    The T-72 can perform combat missions, but you probably shouldn't expect exceptional qualities from it.
  27. +6
    15 May 2022 11: 36
    Quote: "... we will soon see a new round of military engineering ..." End of quote.
    Where, in what kingdom-state? Look at the broad prospects for import substitution in the production of cars (and not only) and where is the "engineering"? And what about in the field of civil aviation, "legal proceedings" (Liza Peskova)?
    We won't see anything anytime soon. It is necessary to develop fundamental science, applied sciences, branch scientific schools, machine tool building, to train design engineers, technologists, and workers. This will take years. They are?
  28. -3
    15 May 2022 12: 01
    Quote: iouris
    Quote: "... we will soon see a new round of military engineering ..." End of quote.
    Where, in what kingdom-state?

    There will be a "new round ....", there will also be "defeat and terrible consequences ......", and in what kingdom they are going to arrange, they forgot to say.
    1. -1
      15 May 2022 15: 20
      The destruction was already there. At 90. IT CAN'T BE WORSE THAN THEN.
  29. 0
    15 May 2022 12: 08
    we are waiting for the lend-lease to start working from the mattress and then we will watch how the towers fly at the abrams
  30. 0
    15 May 2022 12: 17
    The article is more likely in meaning - - - propaganda, but unfortunately, in our propaganda, ambiguity and a hint stick out from every hole. Even the CO symbol is strange, the last letter is not the Russian, but the Latin alphabet .. The hint is clear, like the phrase - a riddle: "there will be a rout and terrible consequences."

    Oh, in the old "soviet" times, the people were normal! I thought in Russian and would not have understood such a strange thing ... That's for sure. Here is "for victory!" - is another matter.
  31. +3
    15 May 2022 12: 19
    Quote: leks
    I have seen enough of such lawlessness and bungling that I realized if there is a war, then we are finished, all hope for a nuclear club

    Ukraine is even worse there. Well, I do not think that in 8 years something has changed dramatically.
    In the NATO army, everything is the same because. Do you think otherwise?
    Any war is bungling and chaos. In theory, this is planning and drones hanging over everyone, in practice, these are the adventures of the good soldier Schweik and Bumbarash in one bottle, together with the heroes of Remarque - "All Quiet on the Western Front."
  32. +5
    15 May 2022 12: 49
    Well, everything is as always, if a Russian T-72 is shot down, then this is a useless tank, and when an outdated Soviet ATGM "wets" the "Leopard", then it's "you don't understand, it's different ..."
  33. +3
    15 May 2022 13: 15
    We have several shortcomings. And here's what surprises: the issue price is a maximum of 50 million dollars. In general, in the context of the question. These are drones. First of all, cheap - for intelligence. And all sorts of crap like night vision devices and thermal imagers. This speaks of the stupidity (this is at best) of the leadership. Both the military and those involved in providing. And here we must not "see what can be done", but firmly decide and do it as soon as possible. Because it really can be fixed.
    From this problem stem the problems of tanks and everything else. But the tank is not a panacea. Even the T72 (not to mention the T90, which are almost non-existent) show themselves to be quite reliable and durable machines. Forgive me those guys who suffered in these tanks.
    air defense. Here is the question. It's not even billions. There billions can not help. This could put us on the brink of disaster - if our air defense and small missile defense had at least one flaw. But a miracle happened. They drag anywhere and everywhere. From this we conclude that our algorithms in this topic work. This means that the missile defense system (the biggest one) will be effective. Keep it up.
    1. +3
      15 May 2022 14: 31
      We constantly rely on the fact that the soldier is stupid and stupid. And it’s impossible to give him anything more difficult than a three-ruler. The bosses themselves, of course, consider themselves smart.
      Or maybe it will be more interesting for a person to serve if he learns something useful in the army? Current here to the authorities it is all the same. When the fences are not finished painting, the holes are not dug...
    2. +6
      15 May 2022 17: 10
      Quote: Ivanushka Ivanov
      We have several shortcomings. And here's what surprises: the issue price is a maximum of 50 million dollars. In general, in the context of the question. These are drones. First of all, cheap - for intelligence. And all sorts of crap like night vision devices and thermal imagers. This speaks of the stupidity (this is at best) of the leadership. Both the military and those involved in providing.

      It's just that no one needs it. Initiative is punishable by execution. It is better to write reports from year to year on the steady growth of combat and political training according to familiar patterns than to be responsible for constant flights in the implementation of the new (and they will be 146%, because there are no new instructions on the new path, and the existing ones are unsuitable, but at the same time mandatory for execution).
      And this is not only in the peacetime army. Murza described the situation, how they offered equipment and assistance in training personnel for organizing a digital closed communications system and "ersatz-RUK" with the work of artillery according to data, albeit civilian UAVs. In the really fighting People's Militia. The result - only a couple of brigades became interested.

      Plus, the eternal love of our army for the preservation of materiel, partly justified by swearing responsibility. With the same nightlights - who wants to pay for the beloved NVD fighter? And he will love him 146% - and with particular cruelty and cynicism, so beyond repair.

      Plus, any good deed can be killed with a penny trifle. There are the same sights - but they either do not have live batteries, or they stupidly do not get on the weapon due to the physical absence of straps on old AKs, and in warehouses - adapter brackets with these straps.
  34. -1
    15 May 2022 14: 29
    Delov something! Let them put theirs. We will see. We still have a place in Kubinka.
  35. +1
    15 May 2022 14: 29
    I would like to hear from the analyst - how many tanks are left in the British (German, French) armies?))) And what does he compare with?
  36. +1
    15 May 2022 14: 39
    The article, of course, is weak and with errors ... but ... the author expressed his vision quite accurately and, in general, is absolutely right. And this is the main thing .. The rest is all up to specialists. I only note that British tank specialists have long been no longer such ... due to the loss of professionalism in these matters ... I had to have the pleasure of communicating with an English tanker ... Swashbuckling and arrogance .. for which I got in the face .. But it was so long ago under the great USSR ... Therefore, I got away with it ... And now Putin would personally apologize ... Well, okay ... this is a lyric .. And thanks for the article ... And in the photo there are just those T-72Bs after Putin's modernization. I would first put him on these tanks ... Here, at the Old Man, the tanks are covered in full ....
  37. 0
    15 May 2022 14: 44
    The fact that in the near future we will see a new round of military engineering, of course.
  38. +3
    15 May 2022 15: 08
    Never before have two industrial powers confronted each other over such a vast territory and with the use of all available conventional weapons.
    Yes? USA against Iraq (first round), Jews against Arabs (yes, the territories there are small, but everyone fought).
    Deputy Commander of the Marines for Combat Development and Integration, once again convinced of the correctness of the refusal of the Marines from tanks.
    Yes? Will the regimental cannon be rolled by hand, as in the First World War? Or pick bunkers with ATGMs?
  39. +1
    15 May 2022 20: 34
    Quote: martin-159
    The photo is good, but the flag of the USSR is not the topic.

    Why so? winked
  40. 0
    15 May 2022 22: 46
    Our tanks need KAZ like air, and even yesterday.

    For good now, the military-industrial complex should work 24 hours a day, but give KAZ for our tankers !!!

    The battle in the city is difficult, but you still have to get to the city, and as practice has shown, this is not always easy and simple.
  41. 0
    16 May 2022 00: 59
    Listen to these supposedly bourgeois experts and analysts who count only money and profit, do not respect themselves hi
  42. 0
    16 May 2022 01: 59
    to summarize - any NATO tanks are destroyed by T-90 tanks.
  43. 0
    16 May 2022 06: 39
    winked To whom, to whom, and the British would really be silent about armored vehicles. "Spesialists", rivet-pound.
  44. -1
    16 May 2022 06: 58
    Quote: Ivanushka Ivanov
    We have several shortcomings. And here's what surprises: the issue price is a maximum of 50 million dollars. In general, in the context of the question. These are drones. First of all, cheap - for intelligence. And all sorts of crap like night vision devices and thermal imagers. This speaks of the stupidity (this is at best) of the leadership. Both the military and those involved in providing. And here we must not "see what can be done", but firmly decide and do it as soon as possible. Because it really can be fixed.
    From this problem stem the problems of tanks and everything else. But the tank is not a panacea. Even the T72 (not to mention the T90, which are almost non-existent) show themselves to be quite reliable and durable machines. Forgive me those guys who suffered in these tanks.
    air defense. Here is the question. It's not even billions. There billions can not help. This could put us on the brink of disaster - if our air defense and small missile defense had at least one flaw. But a miracle happened. They drag anywhere and everywhere. From this we conclude that our algorithms in this topic work. This means that the missile defense system (the biggest one) will be effective. Keep it up.

    It’s not a sin to remember the flight of helicopters at low altitude in the rear of Russia and the destruction of the oil depot in Belgorod, there is nothing to praise our air defense for. They can do something, even somewhere they do it perfectly well, but in general the mistakes are obvious.
  45. +1
    16 May 2022 07: 02
    what foreign tank, except, perhaps, the Israeli Merkava, is capable of providing equal protection from at least three angles.


    despite this very protection, Merkava burns perfectly from missiles of fairly old ATGMs.

    or radically strengthen the side projections and the roof of the tank? Albeit due to a decrease in mobility, coupled with an increase in mass.


    a decrease in the mobility of a tank is a certain death of its crew on the battlefield.

    In general, Russian tanks are tanks for war, and Western tanks are tanks for show-off in peacetime.
  46. 0
    16 May 2022 08: 48
    the British tried to speak rather derogatoryly about Russian armored vehicles. They say that the stabilization system of the tank gun is weak, and the side armor leaves much to be desired.

    If the small-shaven ones find fault, then everything is fine. This means that if they went from praising their anti-tank weapons to condemning our anti-tank weapons, then they screwed up again.
  47. +2
    16 May 2022 11: 43
    I rarely write here, but to be objective, NATO tanks have better SLAs.
    Why? Let's take a look at the most massive T-72B3, the commander's place is the old TKN 3 panorama without a thermal imager, there is a screen from which what the gunner sees is duplicated, but the tank commander must look for targets; he needs a panorama.
    The most amusing incident is that the gunner sees in BAD weather conditions in a thermal imager at 3 km, and the commander sees in the TKN3 panorama in the same conditions at 700-900 meters.
    There are no rear-view cameras on our armored vehicles, military commander Andrey Filatov noted this in the battles for the city of Mariupol as follows: after shooting at a target and leaving the line of possible destruction, turning back sometimes ran into obstacles, since the mechanic driver does not see what is behind the stern.
    For example, in 2015, at 61BTRZ, the T72 was modified for the Nicaraguan army, the commander has a stabilized panorama with a thermal imager, he looks for targets simply by looking at the monitor, tilting the joystick in the direction he wants to look, and does not hang on the TKN3 panorama resting his forehead on it. Also, the modification of the tank for the Army of Nicaragua has rear-view cameras, a navigation system, in general, which is not on the T72B3.
    BTR-82A, the same military commander noted frequent warping of the sleeve, as a result of which the crew was left without the main gun, neither the commander nor the gunner still has a thermal imager.
    Regarding the need for a thermal imager.
    Andrey Filatov, in one of the reports where the Tank T72B3 (Buba and Kasik) was blown up by a PT mine, said, “We hope that it will be quickly returned to service, since there is a thermal imager there.”
  48. 0
    16 May 2022 20: 26
    I don’t see the point of scolding tanks, the infantry needs them like air. But with a leadership that, for the sake of a diploma and an extra star, turns a blind eye to the flaws - the dampness of the car or the lack of training of the crew, you can sit in a puddle with an ideal car. Here is an example of our neighbors from Ukraine at NATO competitions. I don’t know what the reason for such troubles is: the handicap or really the cars weren’t brought to mind before the competition, but such jokes in battle can become the crew’s grave. Where were the eyes of the authorities when they sent them to the competition? To not get a hat, was silent in a rag? Everything is fine with us.
  49. 0
    20 May 2022 12: 58
    The easiest way to not say anything, but to discredit the opponent is to get personal. instead of intelligible analytics, the author was only able to cheat the British in the style of "durak himself" "and you have blacks lynched in the Americas"