Soldiers of the territorial defense of Ukraine began to be trained in handling the Degtyarev machine gun

The fighters of the territorial defense being created in Ukraine are not going to be armed with modern weapons. This conclusion was reached by the deputy of the Verkhovna Rada from Zelensky's Servant of the People party Maxim Buzhansky.

The Ukrainian parliamentarian drew attention to the classes with the fighters of the Kiev Territorial Defense Forces, where they were taught how to handle the Degtyarev machine gun of the 1927 model. At the same time, Buzhansky ironically says that the next weapons that Ukrainian reservists will begin to study will be the Maxim machine gun of the 1883 model and the Berdan rifle of 1870.

I think the second lesson will be Maxim 1883 and the Berdan rifle 1870. For those who do not run away, the third will have a sling and a bow

- the deputy wrote in his Telegram channel, adding that the new weapons, which are supplied from the UK and the USA, will not fall into the hands of the fighters, but will go to Lviv to be resold to Africa.

But a former participant in the ATO, who attended classes with reservists, where they studied the Degtyarev machine gun, said that territorial defense fighters are taught to use such weapons, since no one is going to provide them with modern ones. But Brigadier General Yuri Galushkin, who was appointed commander of the territorial defense, just a couple of days ago said that the Territorial Defense Forces are 100% provided with weapons and ammunition.

Note that just a few days ago, the government of Ukraine allowed the territorial forces to use their own hunting weapons. This is provided for by the law "On the Foundations of National Resistance" recently adopted in Ukraine. This law provides for the creation of self-defense units throughout the country to counter the "aggressor country". In total, it is planned to deploy 25 brigades (according to the number of regions), which will include 150 battalions (one for each region). A backbone will be formed in each battalion, which will include servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Their task will be to create a combat-ready unit from civilians capable of stopping the enemy’s offensive. Well, the command is the same on them.

Comments

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

have not reached the mosquito yet?

[Barberry25]

Well, Mosinki, by the way, shone with us in the BARS classes, But there it was in the sniper version, which is logical, but in Ukraine, they didn’t have enough weapons in 2014, but here you need to find 150 trunks right off the bat, but they don’t seem to exist ..so they will get PPSh soon

[The black]

I think the second lesson will be "Maxim" 1883 and Berdan's rifle 1870. For those who do not run away, the third will be a sling and a bow. And all because the brand new British grenade launchers will be taken to the warehouses of Lviv, so that they would later be sold to Africa ...... Most importantly, the means of protection have long been invented, put on a pan on the head - and already in a helmet

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

I suggest not to stop there.

[Egoza]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I suggest not to stop there.

Is a spear like in the movie "Operation Y" suitable? Especially if you also dye yourself black and hang beads around your neck like Papanov! )))

[COJIDAT]

Is a spear like in the movie "Operation Y" suitable? Especially if you also dye yourself black and hang beads around your neck like Papanov! )))

it was not Papanov, but Smirnov Alexei Makarovich - a friend of Leonid Bykov.

[Egoza]

Quote: COJIDAT

it was not Papanov, but Smirnov Alexei Makarovich - a friend of Leonid Bykov.

Indeed, I was wrong. Apparently thoughts were about the military past of the actor.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

With the ukroterritorial defense, the same story as with the conscription of women: a month after the announcement, as many as 450 patriots came from all over Ukraine.

[Uncle lee]

NO ! It was Alexey Smirnov...

Hero of the Great Patriotic War and a great actor

[Senior seaman]

Quote: Egoza

Is a spear like in the movie "Operation Y" suitable? Especially if you also dye yourself black and hang beads around your neck like Papanov! )))

Papanov did not act in this film. You obviously mean Alexei Smirnov.

[Undecim]

Papanov did not act in this film. You obviously mean Alexei Smirnov.

Yes, these individuals do not care who starred there, even Belmondo. The main thing here is to emboss comments with ultra-turbopatriotic content in the forefront.
The brain does not work here, only the cerebellum. And you Papanov, Smirnov...

[den3080]

In fact, there is a creation of gangs that do not obey the central government.
Each will have a shtetl ataman. Ataman, as you know, needs a gold reserve. The stock needs to be obtained. All clear.

And with whom this or that gang will enter into situational alliances is another question. Mozhe with red, mozhe with white, mozhe with sich archers. Who will give pennies and will "respect" Pan Ataman. On 404 territories this was done more than once or twice.

It was such a lawless mess. This is a statistic, centuries old.

[Rusticolus]

Ataman, as you know, needs a gold reserve. The stock needs to be obtained. All clear.

It seems to me it's quite the opposite. This regular army needs allowances, maintenance, weapons. And here they want, as always, for free. All these ter.bats will have to feed, dress and, preferably, arm themselves exclusively at their own expense. Well, what a profit for their generals, the army is self-sufficient, know yourself in command, and don’t worry about anything.

[den3080]

Quote: Rusticolus

Ataman, as you know, needs a gold reserve. The stock needs to be obtained. All clear.

It seems to me it's quite the opposite. This regular army needs allowances, maintenance, weapons. And here they want, as always, for free. All these ter.bats will have to feed, dress and, preferably, arm themselves exclusively at their own expense. Well, what a profit for their generals, the army is self-sufficient, know yourself in command, and don’t worry about anything.

That's exactly what I'm saying.
The “gold reserve” is where they will find and from whom they will take away.

[Rusticolus]

The fact that they will rob, that's for sure. But at the expense of fighting the aggressor, there are big doubts.

[Barge_watchman]

[quoteAnd with whom this or that gang will enter into situational alliances is another question. [/ quote]
The main thing is not with whom, but against whom.
And here - without options.

[Avior]

In fact, there is a creation of gangs that do not obey the central government.

Vice versa. They will have a central subordination.

[den3080]

Quote: Avior

In fact, there is a creation of gangs that do not obey the central government.

Vice versa. They will have a central subordination.

This is nothing more than a Wishlist of the very central government.
And when did they obey the wishes of the central government in Ukraine?
Only in the days of the USSR and the Russian Empire, and even then not always

[Avior]

They have central funding, subordination, appointment of commanders.
But if you want to think differently for some reason, who can forbid it?

[Fitter65]

Quote: Egoza

Is a spear like in the movie "Operation Y" suitable? Especially if you also dye yourself black and hang beads around your neck like Papanov!

In the film "Operation Y" A.D. Papanov did not act in film, from the word at all, the unforgettable Fedya was played by the unforgettable A. M. Smirnov. It's a classic...

[Nexcom]

I suggest not to stop there.

Why, my friend, are you showing an unseen rabble? Izhevsk plant then. Nekomilfo them, Svidomo, will be.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Nexcom

Why, my friend, are you showing an unseen rabble?

well then

[Seryoga64]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I suggest not to stop there.

And this is instead of Jewelin

[Nexcom]

Wouldn't it be very powerful?

[Seryoga64]

Quote: Nexcom

Wouldn't it be very powerful?

There the power can be adjusted.

[Nexcom]

Probably by the amount of gunpowder being inserted? Will the barrel explode?

[Seryoga64]

Quote: Nexcom

Probably by the amount of gunpowder being inserted?

Well, yes. More less

And the trunk will not explode

Yes, to hell with him. The water pipe is attached

[faiver]

Where are you going to take smoke powder?

[Seryoga64]

Quote: faiver

Where are you going to take smoke powder?

And this is not my headache

[uav80]

They have long dreamed of nuclear weapons ..)))

[Seryoga64]

Quote: uav80

They have long dreamed of nuclear weapons ..)))

I give an idea

[Vadim237]

They definitely won’t have this, since such guns are already quite expensive antiques.

[Crash]

Izhevsk plant? Won't go. Does not meet NATO standards.

Oh tse. French musket

[Diverter]

Not a single bulletproof vest can withstand a shot from such a gun. What did a similar karamultuk prove in Afghanistan (

[Nexcom]

Nah, the third lesson will be a mechanical Gatling card case with a manual drive, which, of course, the Yankees will kindly supply for free as part of helping Svidomo. muzzle-loading muskets on the way. hold on, hero lads.
stand for a day and hold out at night, and then NATO will come up.

(I hope it will not come to catapults and spear-throwers)

[Seryoga64]

Quote: Nexcom

(I hope it will not come to catapults and spear-throwers)

Catapults are already in service

[Nexcom]

Well then, "throw away the enemies"! Once in service...

[Seryoga64]

Quote: Nexcom

Once in service...

They don't have that
(secret as hell)

[cat Rusich]

Quote: Black

I think the second lesson will be "Maxim" in 1883

Teachings "Summer Storm" 2016 at the Rivne training ground "partisans" from the Lviv region.

[seregatara1969]

Maxim is indispensable in positional warfare, with its water cooling and tape feed. Many machine guns do not like overheating. Maxim was originally created for a long war, just add water

[Soldatov V.]

PPSh is an ingenious machine gun. Add a cut-off for three rounds to him, plus upgrade a round magazine, such as the PKK, and again he is at the forefront of our time.

[Barge_watchman]

Ага.
Plus a plastic kit with a pistol and a folding butt, and rebarrel under 9mm Para. And better - .45 APK.

[Avior]

Why is PPSh bad?
For those tasks that are set before them, PPSh, SKS and DP-27 from the warehouses are enough for the eyes. They are not prepared for the first line of defense.

[Barge_watchman]

So, the first or second line is not supposed.
Here I have a SCS 19XX of the worn out year. Further than 400 m, I don’t know how, and I don’t need to. And who will fly from it, will not ask what year of manufacture ...

[Gunfighter95]

Why is PPSh bad?

On the contrary, it is very good.
For example, the Americans in Iraq appreciated him very much, like the AK.
Best regards,

[The black]

There are also plans for courses in stone ax handling and war chariot driving.

[Egoza]

Quote: Black

There are also plans for courses in stone ax handling and war chariot driving.

No, there are no oxen, no horses, no cows! Some pigs are such goats. Who will we harness to the chariot?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

have not reached the mosquito yet?

Sold to Africa a long time ago.

[paul3390]

Not - of course, you can make fun of it as much as you like, but whatever you say - tar from the window on a passing truck is very unpleasant .. They are armed not with the aim of fighting against the RF Armed Forces, but precisely so - based on firing from around the corner. And if, under the type of bloody tyrant Stalin, such Gavriks were quickly controlled, then in our enlightened-liberal times there can be severe problems with this .. But it’s not customary to immediately put up against the wall, it’s more and more accepted to talk about the rights of the innocent victims of the aggressor .. Russian, of course, the victims of the Western aggressor have no rights by definition ..

[PavelV]

The problem with "Degtyarev", a respected namesake, is that for the conditions of urban partisanship it is heavy, and the ammunition load is small.
It will still be necessary to drag it to the indicated window DP-27.
The Kalashnikov assault rifle is much better suited here - it is three times lighter and easy reloading compensates for the slightly smaller magazine.

[Barge_watchman]

There is a car for urban guerrillas. Not necessarily light.
If a full disk arrives from a pretentious Lexus, it's too late to ask. How much does he weigh.
By the way, they said that MG38 \ 42 were lying around in warehouses.
Weird. that they don't laugh...

[ssergey1978]

It will be difficult to laugh after the "bone cutter". Is it true if there are cartridges for them? Probably rotten.

[Barge_watchman]

What else was it called, I don't remember.
Cartridges, yes, through time. There was a lot of digging, both in the Western and in the Chernihiv region ... One guy told me about thirty years ago that he found a vintar in his grandfather's attic. By descriptions. - 98 k. So he said that he shot every other time.
But they somehow opened a warehouse, in the Rivne region, so those cartridges were better, almost without misfires, probably storage conditions played a role ...
They did, really. rumors that KIT was produced under 7,62, I don’t know what standard. You should ask this at Ganz.ru.

[ssergey1978]

MG 42 is produced under 7.62x51 in Germany for sure

[Barge_watchman]

Yes, I know. But like it was a remake of the old. I don't think it's difficult.
The emgacha seems to have the only drawback - the complexity of the design, very good. many details.

[ssergey1978]

German samples all sin with a lot of details, even revolvers. When I was considering buying a Mauser 98 in my native caliber, I was unpleasantly surprised by the cost of cartridges. There were Czechs and Finns. Why is this cartridge not produced in Russia? Is there a small demand in the world?

[Barge_watchman]

Maybe. It seems to me that even Arisaka was more common, kmk, Fedorov made a machine gun for him.
Anyway, inch calibers ... but 7,92 in general ...
although ... from 19-11, I would not refuse.
in classic .45.

[AUL]

Next in line is a bludgeon and a horn.

[Fitter65]

.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

have not reached the mosquito yet?

Yes, and in the photo of the PDM, but he is not a sample of 1927, but 1944 ...

[Barge_watchman]

FULL. In the sniper version. With a live barrel, with a good cartridge (not gross), imported optics, incl. night... Why not? by the way, remember, full of Yukon sights. Belarusian...

[seacap]

a good rifle, the Americans do not disdain and widely use the Springfield M1903, not much younger

[ssergey1978]

Mosinki probably sold everything in the USA. Especially royal edition

[Pravodel]

Mosinka has already passed, now Degtyarev, and then PPSh .. You always need to learn something ..

[Shelest2000]

At the same time, Buzhansky is ironic that the next weapon that the Ukrainian reservists will begin to study will be the Maxim machine gun of the 1883 model.

What a laugh - already ... And the view is so formidable. I wonder if this schenevmerlik is still alive? ..

[Gnat76]

Mosinka is not a bad rifle, if you don’t shoot from the belly, but you can aim at 500-600 meters, you can easily hit the chest target, shoot only with a bayonet)).

[Bogalex]

Of course, they are not familiar with the DP, who would doubt it. They only have the skills to deal with MG in their blood...

[Nexcom]

Fuck the Germans MG would have entrusted them, he demanded care and direct hands.

[Barge_watchman]

The corpses usually didn't mind sharing.

[ZashibNoi_2007]

It is understandable. The Ukrainian army is not an army, in the full sense of the word, but a pile of scrap metal with trinkets of the 60s. For some reason, they don’t want to remove Kalashnikov from service. And what the "Western partners" are sending is what is called decommissioned. Zelensky continues the work of Hetman Mazepa))

[paul3390]

You know - I would not call the DP-27 a trinket .. What difference does it make to you - they will put a queue from the ancient Degtyar, or from the newfangled Pecheneg, into your passing car? The result will be the same..

[Barge_watchman]

Here, support.
Some people just don’t know which barrel the 7,62X54R will fly from - it doesn’t matter. let at least from the "digged" cut-off of the three-ruler.
Jokes are those who have not whistled over their heads.

[Barge_watchman]

90 tons of the latest anti-tank systems - scrap metal? cool...

[Kesha1980]

Hell, this is funny. It remains to distribute the rolls, Budyonovka and windings.
I assume that the authorities are even afraid to distribute weapons, because the Nazis already have them, and the rest can't. I remember conflicts with the Nazis of the "Hungarian regions" of Ukraine.

[grindz]

What kind of weekdays? Gaidamak Petliura trousers and caftans. It will be on topic.

[Kesha1980]

"What do you think, we don't have machine guns? We have them ... they eavesdrop, you bastards! Come on! .. Listen, do you know how many machine guns we have? We have as many as seven of them!
...
Here are three pieces - nothing, but the other three pieces - one sticks, the second jumps like crazy, and the third, the bastard, shoots at his own ... And I traded the seventh, in secret from Pan Ataman, for these pants ... "
Good film "Wedding in Malinovka".

What to do?" "Kulemetov" is not enough for everyone).

[YOUR]

I remember at school at the NVP they studied both DP-27 and PPSh. That was a long time ago.

[Seamaster]

You can't be that old - people don't live that long. In 1962, I studied Kalashnikov at school.

[YOUR]

Well, AK is a classic. Its natural first.
But at the expense of 1962, the untruth specifically rummaged through the expanses of the Internet, and this is what he said.

Quick response
In 1967, the subject of Basic Military Training was introduced into the curriculum of the secondary school. NVP was studied even by girls! The GNP received its second birth in 1977, when each school began to equip special military classes and rooms for storing weapons - Kalashnikov training machines with drilled barrels and small-caliber rifles.

[Seamaster]

I dismantled "Kalash" at school. And I finished school in 1963. We definitely had a military instructor. Gas masks were worn. The 46th secondary school in the city of Krasnodar, now the 92nd gymnasium.

[YOUR]

Those. are you from 1946? And you are now 76 years old. Did I calculate correctly?
We had a VNP class equipped, the teacher was a colonel of the reserve, he came to school only in uniform, a shooting gallery was equipped in the basement. I agreed with the nearest part on the subject of patronage assistance, they went to the firing range to shoot. Most of the boys after graduation went to enter military schools. The stand was at the school of your graduates in the Army. Photos of both those who graduated from college and those who simply served in the Army and Navy. I don’t know how the photo was taken for him, because in our years either a university student or a sick person could not serve.

[Seamaster]

You counted correctly. And in Vic I found: ... "Since 1947, pre-conscription training has been abolished for all non-student youth, and since 1962 for all high school students ...." That is, I ended up in the last year of this very pre-conscription training, which for high school students until 1962. Yes, they also taught us how to drive a ZIS-5 !!!!! (as they say: "Kill yourself with a broom!".

[YOUR]

Maybe I won't argue. Especially not a very significant moment. A lot has happened and gone..

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Seamaster

for high school students until 1962. Yes, they also taught us how to drive a ZIS-5 !!!!!

Just when Khrushch, from a 10-year-old, created an 11-year-old, only instead of ZIS we were taught on tractors.

[ycuce234-san]

Quote: YOUR

in our years, either a university student or a sick person could not serve

There are many subtleties and nothing less than now it has always been - stateless people and citizens of the world, optants, remigrants, foreigners permanently living or foreign students, clergy and hierarchs had the opportunity not to serve. Among the gypsies, this was always historically "not accepted."

[tihonmarine]

Quote: YOUR

I don’t know how the photo was taken for him, because in our years either a university student or a sick person could not serve.

And since 1962, Khrushch made it possible to enter a university after working for a year at an enterprise (or collective farm), so military schools were a priority. In 1964, Khrushch was removed, and they were allowed to enter the university after school. And it seems that there were almost no patients, at least when they went to register for a registration certificate, there was only one out of the entire district.

[james]

You're wrong. Finished school in 1980. We had 4 AKM, 1 SKS, 1 RPD and 1 PPSh-41

- I was crazy about him.

[YOUR]

In principle, the RPD is still the same PD-27 adapted for a new cartridge and tape feed.

[wlkw]

No, this is the RP-46 - a direct descendant of the PD-27 for tape feeding, rifle cartridge.
RPD is already a more distant "relative", taking into account all the mistakes during "conception".
https://topwar.ru/76476-ruchnoy-pulemet-rpd.html

[YOUR]

In other words, a deep modernization of the DP-27

[Barge_watchman]

Come on. To us in the late 70s, the military instructor PPSh brought.
We did not ask where he got it, but ... Considering that Ivan Petrovich was a front-line pilot, I suspect that it was from personal reserves.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: YOUR

I remember at school at the NVP they studied both DP-27 and PPSh.

Now DP-27 and PPSh can only be seen in old films, but with your own eyes, only in museums (they probably took them from the museum).

[YOUR]

In warehouses they are full.
As an example of the steps to the Temple, Patriot Park was made of steel by melting down German weapons stored from the Second World War.

[vch62388]

In 2016, a parade was held in Samara for the anniversary of the parade on November 7.11.41, 1943, so PPSh, Mosinki, DP, and PTRS in decent quantities, and a mod. XNUMX.

[YOUR]

In the initial period of the struggle in the army of the DPR / LPR, all this was actively used.

[Essex62]

There were plenty of PPSh in Soviet schools. We had one. Well, along with Kalash, somo.

[Eraser]

My wife's PPSh is in the safe, however, without auto-fire and rearranged under 9Para

[Nexcom]

They were surprised ... During the Second World War, the Germans also re-barreled our captured PPSh under 9x19 and screwed the adapter under a direct MP sector magazine for 32 rounds. I forgot how they called this infernal hybrid, like MP-41 (r)

[Eraser]

No, here is only a new-made barrel with a chamber, everything else is made in 1943

[Orange bigg]

Note that just a few days ago, the government of Ukraine allowed the territorial forces to use their own hunting weapons. This is provided for by the law "On the Foundations of National Resistance" recently adopted in Ukraine. This law provides for the creation of self-defense units throughout the country to counter the "aggressor country". In total, it is planned to deploy 25 brigades (according to the number of regions), which will include 150 battalions (one for each region). A backbone will be formed in each battalion, which will include servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Zarnika for adults.

[Egoza]

Quote: OrangeBigg

Zarnika for adults.

What a bitch?! It has already been stated in Kiev that the terrorist defense itself exists only on paper, but in fact nothing has been created. However, there is where to write off the money, in your pocket, of course!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: OrangeBigg

Zarnika for adults.

"Zarnitsa" in the clinic named after Kashchenko.

[Pavel57]

The armed people will be in demand after the Nazis are thrown out.

[rocket757]

Note that just a few days ago, the government of Ukraine allowed the territorial forces to use their own hunting weapons.

. Well, yes, as well as pitchforks, axes and shovels ...
Well, how will those territories go to the forest brothers of rabbits?

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

They will soon switch to slingshots. Poor..Poor Ukrainians. We jumped.

[Mouse]

Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

They will soon switch to slingshots.

With chewed bullets...

[tralflot1832]

One is a territorial defense fighter, two fighters are a machine-gun crew armed with RP Degtyarev, three fighters are a machine-gun crew from Degtyarev's RP with a traitor (who will make a couple of control shots according to the calculation and surrender or, as a bloodless option, bring lists of "forest brothers where necessary).

[Xlor]

I propose to arm them all with flintlock guns ...

[impostor]

So DP will only shoot at the Nazis, are they not afraid?

[sgr291158]

With slingshots, you need to start training.

[tihonmarine]

I think the second lesson will be Maxim 1883 and the Berdan rifle 1870. For those who do not run away, the third will have a sling and a bow

Yes, NATO decided to fight, to the last Ukrainian old man. Again, as in 1944 in Germany - "Total War". They don't even take them to the "psychiatric hospital".

[Barge_watchman]

Yes, NATO decided to fight, until the last Ukrainian old man

Who better than NATO to know this ...

[Avior]

Their task will be to create a combat-ready unit from civilians capable of stopping the enemy’s offensive.

It is not clear where the author got this from. It's unrealistically simple.
The main tasks that are actually formulated for the forces of terror defense

defense of the territory and protection of the population in a certain area until the deployment of troops and / or joint forces there ...
participation in strengthening the protection and protection of the state border;
participation in the protection of the population, territories, the natural environment and property from emergency situations...
participation in ensuring the conditions for the safe functioning of state authorities, other state bodies ...
participation in the protection and defense of important facilities and communications ...
participation in the implementation of measures to temporarily ban or restrict the movement of vehicles and pedestrians ...
participation in the provision of measures of public safety and order ...
participation in the fight against sabotage and reconnaissance forces, ...

[taiga2018]

And someone continues to call them brothers? No, I certainly understand that the family has its black sheep, and there should be one of our own, but we can’t have such stupid brothers ...

[Essex62]

If you drive it into your head from kindergarten age that someone is an enemy, then it’s hard, realizing yourself, to get rid of it. And so, brothers, yes.

[Barge_watchman]

So this lure was once invented in the Kremlin. And persistently taldychili.
On the other hand, they never thought so.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: taiga2018

but we can't have such stupid brothers...

The midwife was not the same when she took delivery.

[Seamaster]

Ukrainians are attaching 2 pieces of a dog chain one and a half meters long to the Maxim machine guns - to chain the machine gunners. With 65 kilograms at your feet, you can’t run away from the Muscovites, you will fight. SUGS!

[Nexcom]

Niii, lads do not agree to be chained, there are no bad ones.
And how to run after the gorilka?

[samarin1969]

The irony of the author is inappropriate. The fighters of Novorossia also started with anti-tank missiles and "chemical" "armored cars". It's all about order and motivation.

[grindz]

Some kind of Volkssturm.

[expert]

This is the analogy that comes to mind.
Deutsche Volkssturm - German military formation at the final stage of World War II. It was formed after the propaganda appeal of the NSDAP to all men aged 16 to 60 years old, fit to carry weapons and not previously called up, to protect their “native land.” The purpose of the call was to strengthen the Wehrmacht troops. As a result, it had practically no effect on the course of hostilities. Losses about 175000.
Interestingly, does anyone in Ukraine know the history of the Second World War?

[Servisinzhener]

There are some. But his own, special, having nothing to do with reality.

[expert]

That's right. They soldered us to the minus. ha ha

[Avior]

above, I cited the goals that are set for the defense in Ukraine. There is nothing close to the goals and objectives of the Volksshurm there.

[Ilya22558]

The Volkssturm was armed with the so-called "ersatz weapons", but here, sorry, but the "weapon of victory", whatever one may say. Instances more than proved their excellent fighting qualities.

[hhurik]

Russia, Dagestan militia, 1999.

[Nyrobsky]

Ukraine, terbatovets shoots down litak "ahressor" 2022

[APASUS]

Quote: hhurik

Russia, Dagestan militia, 1999.

These stood for their land, for their village, for their clan. And in Ukraine there will be another gang to squeeze money from the population

[Barge_watchman]

Конечно.

Well it's not them, they will protect their children, the elderly, their home.
from those who will come to deliver them, from all this.
Many here sincerely believe that only a Russian can have a Motherland.

[APASUS]

Quote: Barge_watchman

Well it's not them, they will protect their children, the elderly, their home.
from those who will come to deliver them, from all this.
Many here sincerely believe that only a Russian can have a Motherland.

There is only one caveat. They teach Ukrainians to be Ukrainians, they have never been part of Ukraine. Look at what kind of history textbook they have for grade 9. Where is there at least something about Crimea, at least something about the Donbass, but there’s not a damn thing, there’s even a percent devoted to Kiev 9-10 .
For a Galician Rodina Donbass?

[Barge_watchman]

In my memory, textbooks were rewritten at least four times.
I didn’t find it myself, but I remember from the stories how, when the party line was changed, portraits of Stalin and Beria were torn off the walls.
I don’t read current textbooks, I don’t need to.
There is no need to dedicate much to Kiev, children can come and see for themselves. Crimea...how old, was it Russian? even minus two years of occupation? and how many Ukrainian?
And for the Donbass to me personally, don't tell me, huh? And then, I'll ask you, how many Russians were there before the Anglo-Saxon Yuz built the first city - YuzOvka? Here are the villages, they were there long before him, and in them, here is a miracle, and now they speak Ukrainian ...
Oh wait, I get it! in your textbook, in all seriousness, that Kharkov was built by Russian tsars in the 17th century!

[APASUS]

Quote: Barge_watchman

then, I'll ask you, how many Russians were there before the Anglo-Saxon Yuz built the first city - YuzOvka? Here are the villages, they were there long before him, and in them, here is a miracle, and now they speak Ukrainian ...

What the hell Ukrainian, 1869? Learn history, show me at least one document with Ukrainian nationality before 1917

[Barge_watchman]

Show me your passport, 1880, nationality "Russian".
Oh, I forgot: the Ukrainian language was invented by military linguists of the Austro-Hungarian General Staff. In 1914, right? For the newly created people.

[APASUS]

Quote: Barge_watchman

Oh, I forgot: the Ukrainian language was invented by military linguists of the Austro-Hungarian General Staff. V

I think you can easily prove the historical roots of the language and easily translate hexachloropentadiene for me into Ukrainian.

[Barge_watchman]

easily.
November 1798, XNUMX
Aeneid of Kotlyarevsky.
Absolutely living language, the poem did not catch up with the modern one. No better and better.
Before the invention of the literary Russian language by Quarteron Gannibalovich, about twenty years ...
By the way.
translate into Russian, from Greek, hexa, penta. Chlorine, it's from Latin, right? Dien, so be it, is a purely Russian word.

[APASUS]

Quote: Barge_watchman

easily.

I thought so, another specialist grinds water in a mortar, so what about the transfer?

[Barge_watchman]

But I hinted to you. Not?
I'm telling. Word. what you brought, it is completely imported. okay, "six-five-stinkygas-diene," so no. For starters, translate into Russian, ok?
Haven't you read quantum physics in Polish...
And yes, from your question, obviously so pulling chauvinism.

[APASUS]

Quote: Barge_watchman

And yes, from your question, obviously so pulling chauvinism.

You cannot translate, because there are no medical, chemical, physical terms in the Ukrainian language. All this time, the teaching of subjects was in Russian.
And since the time of Yushchenko, they began to write the language anew, translate the terms. They translated all the instructions for medicines into this gibberish language, just a flurry of poisonings across the country.

[Barge_watchman]

Oh. The term that you cited is non-Russian through and through. I am a former aviator. I can tell you for sure that 95% of aviation terms came into Russian from other languages.
consolation - in English too. Angles use the words camshaft, crankshaft, slot. and don't sweat. Don't sweat it either.
yes, about the gibberish language. Write right away - subhuman, and menacingly click with a caliper. Oh, Arshin, of course!

[Barge_watchman]

Walked, right?
When Kotlyarevsky wrote the Aeneid, he had no idea that in two hundred years someone would deny his existence ....
By the way, it was written in a language that is absolutely understandable to a contemporary. unlike the same Pushkin.

[BABAY22]

After the Basmachi attack on Dagestan in 1999, it was decided to distribute non-automatic weapons - SKS to the locals, which was publicly announced.

[Ilya22558]

By the way, SCS is a reliable, accurate, lethal thing. And how nice it is to hold it in your hands ...

[faiver]

as I understand it, the question is not that there are no more modern weapons in Ukraine, but that a lot of 7,62x54 rifle cartridges have accumulated in warehouses, and there is nowhere to put them, and Degtyar eats them only on the way ...

[Avior]

Surely a lot of decommissioned SCS, PPSh and Degtyarevs are in warehouses.

[Jacket in stock]

I don't see anything funny either.
Degtyar is quite a serious machine gun. As is Maxim. And it's better to have it than not even to have it.
The main thing is that there are those who want to shoot at us. Which isn't funny or fun at all.
In the end, as we are told, the "miners" against the Nazis in 2014 also did not go out with the Abakans, and in the battles then not only Maxims were used, but also real exhibits from museums.

[Kerensky]

Degtyar is quite a serious machine gun. As is Maxim. And it's better to have it than not even to have it.
The main thing is that there are those who want to shoot at us .

Konstantin.
The main thing is that there are people who want to carry disks to it!
Three discs in metal boxes, wire handles...

[rotmistr60]

After the Second World War, the main warehouses with captured weapons were organized on the territory of Ukraine, and subsequently with Soviet weapons removed from service: PPSh, PPS, RPD, "Maxim", three-rulers, Nagans, TT ... Something in Soviet times was supplied to Vietnam, Angola , Cuba. Apparently, not all of the remnants have yet been sold or idolized. It remains to raise the captured German.

[gurzuf]

In the law "On the Fundamentals of National Resistance" it is necessary to draw the thesis that one should not fuss under the occupier.

[Barge_watchman]

So it doesn’t matter to you what kind of gentleman flogs you in the stable ...

[Prisoner]

Blunderbuss not yet studied?

[venik]

"...In total, it is planned to deploy 25 brigades (according to the number of regions), which will include 150 battalions (one for each region)... .... "
======
What to do here: laugh or cry?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Quote: V.

PPSh is an ingenious machine gun. Add a cut-off for three rounds to him, plus upgrade a round magazine, such as the PKK, and again he is at the forefront of our time.

Just reduce the weight, and it's very good.

[Seamaster]

Have you ever outfitted this round magazine? I was present. I didn't like this process. How this can be done in the cold or in the absence of flat surfaces - I have no idea.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

So there are also box stores for him.

[Eraser]

Believe the owner - to equip sector stores for PPSh, that song is also ... mournful
And about weight loss is a controversial topic. Due to the DTK and mass, the PPSh has practically no recoil and toss, on the contrary, there is a “peck” when fired. So you can safely shoot with one hand, if you have enough strength to raise

[dzvero]

We were once shown the DP-27 in the army (along with the teaching staff, RPG-2, mannlicher ...) it’s a pity that it was unintelligent then, I didn’t check it out. I didn’t shoot myself, I remember they warned about misfires. PC in comparison with him the earth and the sky. It's clearer somehow.

[evgen1221]

A cobblestone, then a slingshot, to transfer especially talented people to sling courses. This is where you need to start. Tar is too difficult, difficult, incomprehensible.)))

[Vissarion Golubov]

The formation and cohesion of TO units is going seriously. The Volkssturm is resting. RBC-Ukraine describes (I-those are) exercises near Kiev. Some fighters with wooden mock-ups of AKs, slapping their lips, imitate the sounds of gunshots. So Degtyarev for happiness ...

[Barge_watchman]

Found someone to quote.
Maksik Buzhansky is another organism. Like a young zhirik, only not so hysterical.
Personally, I would not refuse depeshechki. For personal use. It seems that infa was walking that they once tried to conjure with disk power ...
Regarding the banter over the "antiquity".
I will tell some that 7,62 arr. 98 \ 02 kills more reliably than 5,45.

[sergo1914]

Quote: Barge_watchman

Found someone to quote.
Maksik Buzhansky is another organism. Like a young zhirik, only not so hysterical.
Personally, I would not refuse depeshechki. For personal use. It seems that infa was walking that they once tried to conjure with disk power ...
Regarding the banter over the "antiquity".
I will tell some that 7,62 arr. 98 \ 02 kills more reliably than 5,45.

In a hunting store I saw a converted one for single shooting. How to go hunting with him? 9 kg and 1.27 m self + 3 kg store. As if for very healthy hunters.

[Ilya22558]

You haven't seen the hunting maxim yet))))

[Barge_watchman]

Yes, well, these are show-offs. However, if someone wants and has money, why not?

[Kerensky]

It seems that infa was walking that they once tried to conjure with disk power ...

Alex.
I had in my hands a cunning machine with a disc. Now I don’t remember, like Belgian. Disk polyethylene, disposable, factory equipment, under the "small". Cartridges in three rows. In short, - the best thing for attics and basements. One disc in the machine and three in the backpack. And you won't let anyone raise their heads!

[Barge_watchman]

Yeah, that's cool. Rats-zombies to drive.

Too bad you don't remember the name.

[Kerensky]

Not only rats. Yes, a small piece of armor will not take it, but it will ruin the body kit. There are about 180 shots in the disk, you can press the attacking infantry to the ground.

[Barge_watchman]

If a small thing, with a soft bullet, there is also less rebound ... An interesting thing.
And about the rats, I remembered the late Cruz.

[Kerensky]

Wearable ammunition, less load on the barrel, small dimensions (which allows you to carry it around attics and basements). Minus - factory wheels, you can’t reload and you can’t buy ....

[Kerensky]

And about the rats, I remembered the late Cruz.

Sometimes you have to break through the rats and the road. Especially in DB areas in tropical climates. There, rats have a lot of sanitizing tasks, and they are quite aggressive.

[Barge_watchman]

Well, to "disposable weapons." someday we will come, this topic was discussed.
And rats... yes. Thank the gods, I haven't experienced this.
But at Cruz, there are rat zombies, although they are slow, but you can kill the {vegetable}. Only the density of fire. And smacking, even from Minimi, is somehow wasteful ...

[Kerensky]

Well, to "disposable weapons." someday we will come, this topic was discussed.

But where does it all go? We dropped this plastic disc from height. Doesn't break. Yes, and wearable BC rolls over. 4 magazines of 180 rounds are carried by one calculation number, plus his APS or similar device with a couple of magazines. Yes, the power is not the same, but for urban battles, where the average distance is about 80 meters .... alas, the cartridge from Maxim is redundant.
PS For those who like to destroy walls, I recommend a series: Cracker, ASh-12 and a revolver for his cartridge.

[Barge_watchman]

So there was no need, that's it ... For the last thirty years. somehow I don’t remember different waterloos and prokhorovkas ... Although, they began to remember and apply, with updated technology, Nestor Ivanovich’s tactics, which, as it turned out, were in demand ... only that. that the horsepower in the cart has increased. yes, the machine gun is not water-cooled ... so it returns, often from dusty shelves, all sorts of things ... Smart and prudent people are already modeling what is there. with which they will fight in a vacuum and in weightlessness. and it's not that easy...
the X54p cartridge became redundant with the introduction of the smokeless cartridge. Who then. could shoot a kilometer, with an open sight?
I read a topic about "anti-bear" revolvers. Interesting, but I didn’t try it on myself, with my darned tassels ... I can’t hold it.

[Servisinzhener]

Judging by the news, the conflict seems to be escalating. In Kiev, they got the go-ahead. And most likely not on a petty provocation, but, so to speak, to fall on the whole world.
Well. Better a terrible end than horror without end.

[pytar]

There are many examples of the successful use of extremely outdated weapons! The case of using cannons of the 19th century against German tanks in November 41 near Moscow is indicative!
A unique battle near Moscow: 19th century cannons against fascist tanks.
https://ribalych.ru/2013/10/02/unikalnaya-bitva-pod-moskvoj-pushki-19-veka-protiv-fashistskix-tankov/

The Degtyarev machine gun, although outdated, can kill! If you get under fire from the DT-27, you are unlikely to be laughing!

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: pytar

A unique battle near Moscow: 19th century cannons against fascist tanks.
https://ribalych.ru/2013/10/02/unikalnaya-bitva-pod-moskvoj-pushki-19-veka-protiv-fashistskix-tankov/

Thanks Boyan for the link. Interesting. Did not know.

[Kir Duc]

With all due respect to country 404, what's so funny about DP? Someone will laugh at the Colt 1911 or at the Thompson PP? And they will be older. DP faithfully served ours in the Second World War, it’s a pity, of course, that now it’s got to the ducks, but this is not the fault of the machine gun.

[Constanty]

You can be ironic, or you can laugh, but equipping the territorial troops with old weapons from mobilization stocks is a completely understandable move - in my opinion, much better than giving poorly / sufficiently trained reservists from the territorial defense forces the latest weapons - for example, in Poland, where the Territorial Defense Forces Defense first of all received the latest GROT rifles, when the active army still has Beryl or even AKMS in service.

And in general, the DP-27 is still a deadly weapon.

[Vadim237]

"A backbone will be formed in each battalion, which will include servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine." - This "Backbone" will consist of cartilage and a soup set of fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

[Barge_watchman]

Vadim, you personally, are you going to liberate Ukraine from Ukrainians?
current honestly.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Barge_watchman

Vadim, you personally, are you going to liberate Ukraine from Ukrainians? current honestly.

Of course, I’m not Vadim, but why free her from the Ukrainians? It must be freed from the evil dominion settled in Kiev and from the influence of mattresses with the British, otherwise it will never be able to restore its sovereignty and will be their frail colony.

[Barge_watchman]

Judging by the local commentators, they are preparing: "Kill everyone, the Lord will recognize his own!"
The Ukrainians have chosen "malicious power", and they themselves will be freed from it. If they want.
And to lean on the uninvited, to demolish the country. Along the way, killing half the population (the Chechens will not let you lie), along the way receiving streams of "zinc" ....
I do not understand.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Barge_watchman

The Ukrainians have chosen "malicious power", and they themselves will be freed from it. If they want.

Yes Yes. Nuland, who is discussing candidates for key positions in Europe, will not let you lie.

Quote: Barge_watchman

And to lean on the uninvited, to demolish the country. Along the way, killing half the population (the Chechens will not let you lie), along the way receiving streams of "zinc".

So uninvited? Mattresses with little hands of the Junta have long been issued an invitation card, only now Russia is in no hurry to pay a visit. The owners are already furious that they constantly have to reheat dishes, waiting.

Quote: Barge_watchman

I do not understand.

And I do not understand. The country of Ukraine seemed to be normal, but it skewed ....

[Barge_watchman]

You will add cookies here, bggg ...
Well, if I'm wrong, tell me who exactly is calling you to Ukraine. In the sense, do not stay for a while, "oh, won't you even drink tea?" and without asking anyone, choose the one you like .. Along the way, killing those who disagree.
By the way, about the "junta". I will not translate this word for you, myself .... But, in the sense you are accustomed to, this is "the power of the military."
Let me remind you that Gunpowder was, like, a sergeant, and Zelya ... well, you know, right?
But in what country do colonels hold power, and not even army ones, but gendarmerie ones, to remind?
It's just that you and I have a different understanding of "normality".
And you, your understanding, are trying to impose by force.
Alas and ah, not the case.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Barge_watchman

Well, if I'm wrong, - tell me who exactly calls you to Ukraine. I mean, do not visit "oh, won't you even drink tea?", namely, to lean on the "heavy forces", on tanks, to demolish legitimate power. and without asking anyone, choose the one you like.. Along the way, killing dissenters.

Well, how what? It is Ukraine's desire to kill dissenters in the Donbass that urges us to put an end to this. Why do you think that the killing of civilians in the Lugansk and Donetsk regions is your monopoly and legal right? No guys, that's not going to work...

Quote: Barge_watchman

By the way, about the "junta". I will not translate this word for you, myself .... But, in the sense you are accustomed to, this is "the power of the military."
Let me remind you that Gunpowder was, like, a sergeant, and Zelya ... well, you know, right?

I agree. The junta is not quite the right word, but the fact that your power rests only on the exploitation of the theme of the war with Russia is a fact, since it no longer has any other motivation for maintaining power, and therefore the support of this power is the military, well, and several thousand really frostbitten making their "career" on this topic.

Quote: Barge_watchman

But in what country do colonels hold power, and not even army ones, but gendarmerie ones, to remind?

Where is this, with a gendarme past? Tsarism has long since sunk into oblivion.

Quote: Barge_watchman

It's just that you and I have a different understanding of "normality".

Definitely and undeniably.

Quote: Barge_watchman

And you, your understanding, are trying to impose by force.

Again you for the old. Well, why should I impose something on you by force if you cannot realize the simple truth, namely that it was not Russia that deprived you of independence, but mattresses. Back in 1991 you were released on all 4 sides, but for 30 years you managed to completely lose all your potential in pursuing your policy and are the conductor of the policy that is imposed on you from the outside. Well, we do not need Ukrainian lands, neither for nothing, nor as a burden. We need a normal Ukraine with which we can coexist on mutually beneficial terms. Draw your independence even with a scoop, even with buckets, but why spoil it. Your mistake is that you have made Russophobia your official policy, and all you get is retaliatory measures.

[Nikolay Sayenko]

it is necessary to free ourselves from the stereotypes of Uncle Sam...and Ukraine must be freed from the Nazis!

[Vadim237]

No - I'm not a military man, but I work as an allied worker for the military to liberate Ukraine from Ukrainians, this will be decided at the top by my "small" business.

[Barge_watchman]

Vadim.
It is right. Stay home, get busy. Look, at least wash the traces of Obama in the entrance.
And leave Ukraine to the Ukrainians, OK?

[Vadim237]

There are no traces of Obama and never will be in our porch and my country houses.

[Barge_watchman]

He just didn't make it.
Now, it will be Biden.
Get defensive, don't let go.
And then, you see, you go to liberate Ukraine, and in the meantime, the harmful old man will do that too. You sit at home.

[Soldatov V.]

What criteria will be used to select territorial defense units? Ardent Ukrainians or all in a row? All in a row, so they will destroy each other. and the survivors will raise either the white flag or the Russian tricolor. Nazis and Bandera will be destroyed in the first place. No one has forgotten in Ukraine what the Bandera people are like. As a boy, he came to the Donbass and his relatives told about the atrocities of the Germans, Romanians, Italians, Hungarians, Bandera. Bandera were the worst of all. My uncle was the commander of a partisan detachment in the Donbass and died there. The ashes of the dead knock on our hearts.

[TerraSandera]

In order to nightmare and keep the civilians in check, this will do, but for a serious confrontation with the Russian Federation and regular weapons will not be enough

[MrFYGY]

Pictured is DPM. A very good machine gun.

[Vadim237]

Yes, most likely the US and other small arms allies will bring the same M16A2 AR 15 to these battalions the same American-made RPG 7
and M60 - in warehouses full of them, like rifles manufactured in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s and millions of rounds of ammunition were thrown - several flights of cargo 747 Boeings and all these formations are armed.

[zontov79]

I read the comments of stubborn oligophrenics, laughing that the Russians will kill their brothers, you can say, and I see that there are few smart people here.

[Nikolay Sayenko]

Cossack flint guns are the very thing!

[kolyan-111-53]

if the enemy does not come, then how are they going to disarm these gangs? go to crafts in local shops for sweets and other nishtyaks))

[Barge_watchman]

Who are "they"?

[Illanatol]

Arquebuses squealed as they approached.

[Diverter]

In case of mobilization, the warehouses always contain weapons that have been decommissioned by the country's armed forces. For it is expensive to dispose of on the one hand, and a supply of weapons is always needed on the other.
Issuing reservists weapons of bygone days is the practice of all countries.
Some weapons of the past have amazing characteristics, moreover, such that even now they are not surpassed. For example, the same Maxim, hardly anyone can compare with his suppressive fire now. And PPSh, SKS, DPM, KPV, MG are in capable hands .....

[mva]

For partisans, the Degtyarev machine gun will do. They are not taught to fight head-on with the Russian army, but to partisan :)

[antiaircrafter]

began to teach how to handle the Degtyarev machine gun

I would use such a device in the economy.

[Edvagan]

remember the legendary trebuchet. And officially take it into service for terrorist defense.