Foreign Ministry: Russia handed over to the United States a draft bilateral agreement on security guarantees for Russia and NATO

207
Foreign Ministry: Russia handed over to the United States a draft bilateral agreement on security guarantees for Russia and NATO

The Russian Foreign Ministry has developed a draft bilateral treaty on security guarantees and an agreement on security measures for Russia and NATO countries. This is stated in the message of the Russian Foreign Ministry.

Russia has prepared a draft security guarantee treaty and has already handed over the documents to the American side, hoping that Washington will begin negotiations with Moscow in the near future. The Foreign Ministry explained that during the transfer of documents, the Americans received from the Russian side all the necessary explanations regarding the Russian approach, and all the arguments were presented.



The Russian side noted several conditions that must be signed, all of which are included in the draft. So, among the conditions - the exclusion of NATO expansion and Ukraine's joining the alliance; the exclusion of the deployment of additional military and weapons outside the countries in which they were in May 1997; abandon any NATO military activities in Ukraine, Eastern Europe, Transcaucasia, Central Asia; do not deploy medium and shorter-range missiles where they can hit the territory of the other side, etc.

In the draft treaty on guarantees, the United States and Russia undertake not to use the territory of third countries to attack each other; the parties should maintain dialogue and interact to prevent hazardous activities in the air and at sea; nuclear weapon can be deployed only on its own territory, and already deployed in other countries is returned, etc.

There are 9 points in the draft agreement on security measures between Russia and NATO countries, and 8 points in the agreement on security guarantees between the US and Russia. The full texts of both documents are available on the official website of the Russian Foreign Ministry.

Russia has made its move, now we are waiting for reciprocal steps from Washington and Brussels. It is clear that there will be no quick signing of documents, and bargaining will begin for each clause of the agreement, but this is already in the process of negotiations. The main thing is that they start.

By the way, Kiev has already reacted to Russia's demand not to take Ukraine into NATO. Some Ukrainian media have already called the project a "brazen ultimatum" to Europe.
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  1. +11
    17 December 2021 15: 38
    Americans will not agree - God knows what else they will come to in their hysteria. And they themselves understand this, but they cannot do anything - "the bets have been made, there are no more bets." The ball is launched.

    All of Europe will sign, and the east, with particular hysterics, will scream about the "Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact 2.0" and that Biden is an agent of the Kremlin and Putin personally.

    Yes, you’ll scratch your turnips here ...

    I'm talking about America and Biden personally, because the rest of the NATSheeps - the figures are controlled and as the Chief Uncle says, so be it. They can be ignored.
    1. +11
      17 December 2021 15: 48
      Yes, what would these fraery ... that is, the "partners" went to a fair deal, but never.
      1. 0
        17 December 2021 17: 11
        One would like to remind these "framers" of one song:
        DO THE RUSSIANS WANT
        DO THE RUSSIANS WANT ... WAR!
        and further in the text
        YES, WE KNOW TO FIGHT,
        BUT WE DO NOT WANT TO AGAIN ...
        these woodpeckers have a desire to feel on their colorful skin what does it mean to get in the face? A provocation on a provocation, and they are waiting for a big fight ...
        An old song, post-war, but conveys the essence and pain of the people in such a way that it grabs the heart ...
        1. +5
          17 December 2021 17: 42
          It seems to me that the State Department, the Pentagon and NATO headquarters are now chuckling condescendingly while reading these lists. Such an offer could be made only in one case - if it is part of a larger plan, which provides for the offer, the officially received refusal and further transition to some next step in the new reality that arose after that. If Putin seriously hoped that this project could become the basis of some kind of agreement, then in this case it is a very, very weak move in a big game in which he considers himself a master. To get a turn from the gate is to explicitly show that your ultimatums are not taken seriously.
          1. -2
            17 December 2021 18: 25
            It seems to me that the State Department, the Pentagon and NATO headquarters are now chuckling condescendingly while reading these lists.
            In case of disagreement, you can draw up lists of NATO bases, keep your warriors outside your territory, get ready to get there a "nuclear loaf."
            1. -2
              17 December 2021 18: 45
              I think they are already ready. Without any contracts.
              1. -1
                17 December 2021 23: 39
                Oh, I'm sorry, not ready) not ready without a contract)
                1. 0
                  19 December 2021 20: 00
                  The Americans will not refuse. Agree - also no. A long, long furious bargaining will begin for each letter. Which can only end with the surrender of one of the parties.
          2. 0
            17 December 2021 20: 18
            I think there is such a plan. Belarus ... hi
          3. -1
            17 December 2021 20: 34
            Such treaties are signed by powers that are approximately equal in terms of military power and economy. Of course, for our homegrown cheekbones, such lyrics are like balm. But it has already been said above - in the Pentagon and NATO they giggle condescendingly ...
            1. +2
              17 December 2021 22: 50
              Quote: 210ox
              Such treaties are signed by powers that are approximately equal in terms of military power and economy.

              And if we assume that the current position of the United States and NATO is generally similar to that of the Wehrmacht in December 1941? Then the strategic retreat of the Germans to the border on 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX. was perfectly sound reasoning. Moreover, some generals from BOTH sides of the conflict thought so. No, you can certainly laugh and continue to conduct "combat" actions for another three years. But there it is quite close to the KFNR.
              Quote: 210ox
              But it has already been said above - in the Pentagon and NATO they giggle condescendingly ...

              The military is sitting in the Pentagon and they cannot giggle seeing the increased military potential of the Russian army. The trouble is that it is necessary to fend off not only the strategic forces of the Russian Federation, but also the growing by leaps and bounds of the Chinese Navy.
            2. -1
              19 December 2021 15: 17
              Russia has clearly overcome all crises. China is rising successfully. and the usa is now like the ussr at 89. everything looks powerful and beautiful, but the clock is already ticking ...
              1. 0
                19 December 2021 16: 14
                I have not overcome all the crises. Technological, demographic, industrial (a large range of products represents technology from forty years ago), education and science .... The list goes on. It is easier to list what we have overcome. And I would very much like to see the most powerful power, our Russia. And not in the speeches of propagandists. And China has already risen. And by the way, to an unattainable height for us.
                1. 0
                  19 December 2021 17: 47
                  if you want a specific conversation, let's be specific. demographic situation with whom to compare? better than Europe but worse than Africa. is it an indicator? technological-zircons, daggers, calibers? the first is generally a breakthrough - the mattress covers have the third test of the prototype and everything is past the checkout. has its own civil aviation, the auto industry is in full bloom, household appliances ... will you see around that the citizens of the FR in a less technological world live than Europeans? on the Internet, in terms of covering the cheapness of wi-fi technologies, Russia is far ahead of the United States and Europe, although China is even more ahead. nuclear-powered icebreakers of the Akrtika project, yes, in general, icebreakers in Russia 50 in the United States are two (!) in China, too, two in total. what do you think this is not a technological production or a Soviet legacy? education and science, well, here and so everything is clear, ahead of the whole planet, despite the cries about the exam and maybe thanks to him. but about the unattainable height of China, do you even know that the communists drove them into the trap "one family, one child" and now it is a nation of one and a half billion pensioners? Well, they have not fought in modern wars for fifty years, and Russia has one successful war after another, from Georgia through Syria to the Crimea. so if you look realistically, Russia is a compact modern modernized combat consolidated force, China is a colossus on glazy feet from the times of the USSR in 39, with a powerful economy and a large army but inability to fight, but the USA is the same USSR, but already of the 89 model. left afghanistan, confusion and vacillation in the country, and no one is ready yet, but perhaps there are a couple of three years left as it gets bogged down in the abyss of civil war in the next rigged elections.
          4. D16
            -1
            17 December 2021 20: 49
            If Putin seriously hoped that this project could become the basis of some kind of agreement, then in this case it is a very, very weak move.

            So they will get:
            "Russian and Chinese brothers for a century" and we do not care about your climatic summits and enorgopransitions. Pay us carbon tax for dirty manufacturing in China. laughing
          5. +2
            17 December 2021 22: 04
            Cat. Are they laughing or not now in the State Department? Who can tell you. Unlike you, I really think that Putin, for all his obvious oddities, is in fact an experienced and serious politician. At the same time, it is obvious that the proposed project is not a gag, but the fruit of the thoughts of his team, and there are diplomats of Soviet traditions. Therefore, it is obvious that Putin is not bluffing. I read the draft - you are right, in modern realities, it is beneficial only to the Russian side. Moreover, this project, if it was accepted for a minute, would force NATO to go back. Because NATO troops in the Baltics, including aviation, are already present, hiding behind a fig leaf of rotation. Then a logical question arises - it looks like "take it! Otherwise ...", WHAT !!! ???
            Meanwhile, Biden did not reject the offer from the doorway, they say, whoever we want, we accept into NATO, and don’t meddle. He seems to have turned on red tape. They say, we need to consult with our comrades, yes, we would not mind, but we need to observe a consensus. Then what? I do not understand, the only thing I reject is that Biden agreed to think under the impression of Russian military power. Because the enemy knows that if Ukraine is admitted to NATO, then a world war will not happen from this, and this will neutralize the military option. Some argue that Biden's maneuver is due to internal reasons for the United States, but isn't it too difficult an option to include Russia in internal squabbles with the risk of following the D, Trump path? In Congress, the people are high-spirited and harsh. Therefore, I don’t know what Putin is hoping for, but he is hoping for something, because he is not a cheap phony whoever writes what.
            1. -1
              18 December 2021 00: 18
              Mikhail is pleasant to read you when you write about laws or about economics. But analytics is not your strong point. Firstly, this is not a statement as a deputy or a journalist, but the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Secondly, as many here write that the Budapest Memorandum is just a piece of paper, you, as a lawyer, are also so think. If yes, then the discussion will not work. Although you correctly noted that the people in the Congress are sober and playful. The only thing that comes to mind is that you can somehow explain this statement. This is a message not to Washington, but to Beijing personally, Comrade Xi, they say, while I distract For the United States, you can strengthen your position in the CPC, because soon they will have a congress and will elect a chairman. And such hints were already given by Shoigu to his Chinese counterpart.
            2. 0
              18 December 2021 21: 05
              mikh-korsakov
              If you have read the project, then, I hope, to the last word. And the last words "waiting for an answer 30 days" And what next? .....
          6. +1
            17 December 2021 23: 17
            Quote: military_cat
            I think, the State Department, the Pentagon and NATO headquarters are now chuckling condescendingly while reading these lists. Such an offer could be made only in one case - if it is part of a larger plan, which provides for the offer, the officially received refusal and further transition to some next step in the new reality that arose after that. If Putin seriously hoped that this project could become the basis of some kind of agreement, then in this case it is a very, very weak move in a big game in which he considers himself a master. To get a turn from the gate is to explicitly show that your ultimatums are not taken seriously.
            It seems to you.
            The mattresses have already made it clear that they are ready to discuss the contract, BUT! - so that this discussion is NOT PUBLIC. Why would a "hegemon" suddenly find such a "constraint"? Want to cheat? Probably yes, but Russia already has enough experience not to take mattresses at their word. So, whether someone likes it or not, there will be a discussion of the agreement between the Russian Federation and the United States. How it will end is another question, but without written, legally binding guarantees of NATO's non-expansion to the borders of Russia, it will not be signed, and therefore Russia will make a decision on measures and methods to ensure its security independently and at any time it considers necessary, without looking back. on some conventions. Consider that Russia offered the Americans a relatively mild solution to the contradictions and take advantage of the available diplomatic opportunities in order to save a mattress face and not completely collapse their image. They were already smeared with snot on the glass, explaining to Kiev, Tbilisi and Chisinau that they would not die for them, but now there is only a little left to fix it on paper, allegedly they signed an agreement finally convincing Russia not to attack them, which will secure it. non-aligned status of some non-states.
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        4. +2
          18 December 2021 00: 31
          On the downside, I realized (or it seemed) that they didn't know this song, but it's a pity ...
        5. +1
          18 December 2021 15: 09
          Quote: aleks neym_2
          One would like to remind these "framers" of one song:
          DO THE RUSSIANS WANT
          DO THE RUSSIANS WANT ... WAR!
          and further in the text
          YES, WE KNOW TO FIGHT,
          BUT WE DO NOT WANT TO AGAIN ...

          Thank God my son came home yesterday. Dembel!
      2. 0
        17 December 2021 18: 48
        Quote: Civil
        Yes, what would these fraery ... that is, the "partners" went to a fair deal, but never.

        And how is she honest, what does Russia offer in return?
        1. D16
          0
          17 December 2021 21: 08
          And how is she honest, what does Russia offer in return?

          The lives of tens, if not hundreds of millions of subjects of the American president, not to mention Europeans and Ukrainians.
          1. -4
            17 December 2021 21: 13
            Quote: D16
            The lives of tens, if not hundreds of millions of subjects of the American president

            Well, what about your own people to think about? Or, as always - with little blood, in a foreign territory, we will throw hats.
            Quote: D16
            not to mention the Europeans and Ukrainians.


            Don't tear your pants.
            1. D16
              +1
              17 December 2021 21: 20
              Well, what about your own people to think about?

              They will either have their own, or they will not.
              we will shower with hats.

              The hats are not the same. lol
              Don't tear your pants.

              In the next war, who will count them?
        2. +2
          17 December 2021 21: 21
          Quote: atalef
          Quote: Civil
          Yes, what would these fraery ... that is, the "partners" went to a fair deal, but never.

          And how is she honest, what does Russia offer in return?

          But this is just a proposal - a project of one side. Moscow will wait for the proposal from the other side. Hopelessly! The Russian proposals were exactly as many years late, where (1997) Moscow proposes to return. They will be completely rejected. To get them thinking, it is necessary to at least double the number of troops on the border.
          1. -1
            17 December 2021 21: 24
            Quote: aslan balayev
            where (1997) Moscow offers to return.

            Moscow also proposes the return of all borders of its neighbors for 1997?
            1. +1
              17 December 2021 21: 45
              Quote: Liam
              Quote: aslan balayev
              where (1997) Moscow offers to return.

              Moscow also proposes the return of all borders of its neighbors for 1997?

              No, we are still talking about the differentiation of influence. It's a bit late in my opinion.
              1. -6
                17 December 2021 21: 47
                Quote: aslan balayev
                late

                Serious offers are not made through the press
          2. -3
            17 December 2021 21: 26
            Quote: aslan balayev
            But this is just a proposal - a project of one side.

            Well, it certainly doesn't look like a project.
            It looks like an ultimatum
            Quote: aslan balayev
            Moscow will wait for the proposal from the other side. Hopelessly!


            of course. maybe it is so unweighted that you can only answer it by twisting your finger at your temple
            Quote: aslan balayev
            They will be completely rejected.

            Of course, this is a proposal for domestic consumption, no one in the international arena will take this seriously
            Quote: aslan balayev
            To get them thinking, it is necessary to at least double the number of troops on the border.

            good.
            1. 0
              17 December 2021 21: 54
              Quote: atalef
              Quote: aslan balayev
              But this is just a proposal - a project of one side.

              Well, it certainly doesn't look like a project.
              It looks like an ultimatum
              Quote: aslan balayev
              Moscow will wait for the proposal from the other side. Hopelessly!


              of course. maybe it is so unweighted that you can only answer it by twisting your finger at your temple
              Quote: aslan balayev
              They will be completely rejected.

              Of course, this is a proposal for domestic consumption, no one in the international arena will take this seriously
              Quote: aslan balayev
              To get them thinking, it is necessary to at least double the number of troops on the border.

              good.

              Suggestion for internal use? Absolutely not. The addressee is uniquely specified
            2. +2
              17 December 2021 23: 04
              Quote: atalef
              Well, it certainly doesn't look like a project.
              It looks like an ultimatum

              Isn't the ultimatum followed by proposals / demands? These very proposals are the project.

              Quote: atalef
              maybe it is so unweighted that you can only answer it by twisting your finger at your temple

              And what is unweighted in these requirements? Where is the confidence that the US and NATO have the resources to maintain the existing "base"? There is no one in the world to rob today - the world is over.
              Quote: atalef
              the international arena will not take it seriously

              Russia has a lot to offer the United States. The main thing that the Americans are asking today is to stand on the sidelines and do NOTHING while the Yankees and the West are "wetting" China.
    2. +1
      17 December 2021 15: 51
      If you study the points, it is a very tough statement, even the topic of the INF Treaty in the Pacific region was touched upon. China really liked our position. How is the time at the famous clock 23: 59: 59. And then Shoigu and Gerasimov.
      1. +14
        17 December 2021 16: 59
        Yes, this is a stillborn document. Some kind of act of surrender. NATO will never agree to sign it.
        1. +7
          17 December 2021 17: 14
          Quote: Letun
          NATO will never agree to sign it.

          Yes, even if they sign, they will immediately violate it! What do they need "public opinion" These are bandits, children and grandchildren of bandits!
          1. D16
            -2
            17 December 2021 21: 13
            Well these are bandits, children and grandchildren of bandits!

            A kind word and a gun will do the trick. Iran did not have a pistol. Russia had it in the 90s, but it was not ready to use it.
        2. +1
          17 December 2021 17: 40
          Quote: Letun
          Some kind of act of surrender.

          looks like Corrdell Hull's note. perhaps the results will be the same.
          1. +4
            17 December 2021 21: 34
            Quote: SanichSan
            Quote: Letun
            Some kind of act of surrender.

            looks like Corrdell Hull's note. perhaps the results will be the same.

            This reaction to NATO enlargement, which took place two decades ago, is just as late. Unambiguously, unconditionally and immediately will be rejected. Moscow came to their senses rather late.
          2. -1
            19 December 2021 15: 27
            local pearl harbor on a scale of ukraine?
            1. 0
              19 December 2021 15: 33
              if only ... this little thing also interests no one like Georgia.
              pearlharbor will try to arrange for us, perhaps in the Crimea or Kaliningrad.
              1. 0
                19 December 2021 15: 34
                they do not have the technical ability to do this. we can shake them up, but they simply cannot ...
                1. 0
                  19 December 2021 15: 43
                  Quote: vervolk
                  they do not have the technical ability to do this.

                  true, but the fact that something needs to be done is also true. the economic and military alliance between Russia and China will simply put pressure on everyone together with the United States, and everyone there understands it. but something has to be done. maybe they will try to risk some kind of Ukraine for which no one is going to fight request
                  1. 0
                    19 December 2021 15: 44
                    there the project is rather a provocation against Belarus in the region of Brest with the use of Tikhanovskaya. but not the fact that they will decide. here the decision corridor is January-February, so we'll see soon
        3. 0
          17 December 2021 18: 32
          Crap! Why don't you think that it is for this purpose in this document there are SUCH points! ? And then, like, we offered you!
          1. +1
            17 December 2021 18: 46
            Just a fig, and most importantly why?
        4. -5
          17 December 2021 18: 51
          Quote: Letun
          Yes, this is a stillborn document. Some kind of act of surrender. NATO will never agree to sign it.

          Of course, not only are the countries of the former USSR automatically declared a zone of interests of Russia without any guarantee of their security, and by limiting the military activities of the United States and NATO on parity terms, they completely forget about the existence of China, which, of course, does not participate in this and can do whatever it wants
          1. +2
            17 December 2021 20: 09
            Of course, not only are the countries of the former USSR automatically declared the zone of interests of Russia without any guarantee of their safety,


            So it is. This is reality. The same as the countries of Central America for the United States. No China will ever appear there without a war.
            Why only it, such a statement, is not clear. Nothing will change. We will not start ourselves, but the suspended state suits the United States. It doesn't seem like it's time to check the spoon, mug, meal and mob prescription.
            By the way, it’s unexpected to hear about "zones of interest" from Israel. You don’t bother with Iran’s independence and interests if you smell fried.
          2. D16
            +3
            17 December 2021 21: 44
            countries of the former USSR are automatically declared a zone of interests of Russia without any guarantee of their security

            Ask the representatives of the republics who lived in the USSR where they were safe lol .
            completely forget about the existence of China, which of course does not participate in this and can do whatever it wants

            What is China doing? Builds islands in the South Caucasus Sea because it is necessary. He is trying to do without the use of force against his own inadequate territories. Forces ukrov to pay $ 1,5 billion for undelivered wheat. Beasts wassat .
        5. D16
          0
          17 December 2021 21: 10
          NATO will not agree to sign it.

          This is the beginning of bargaining.
    3. +11
      17 December 2021 15: 55
      Americans disagree

      this document does not correspond to their aspirations. Roll out the answer:
      1.Russia to withdraw its troops at least 1000 km from its borders
      2. It is not necessary to dig the EBN, but it is obligatory to put the MSG by the President of the Russian Federation
      3. egg, chickens, milk oil, gas and other for beads at the correct prices
      4. ... fantasy is not enough ...
      1. +8
        17 December 2021 20: 28
        Quote: dzvero
        Americans disagree

        this document does not correspond to their aspirations. Roll out the answer:
        1.Russia to withdraw its troops at least 1000 km from its borders
        2. It is not necessary to dig the EBN, but it is obligatory to put the MSG by the President of the Russian Federation
        3. egg, chickens, milk oil, gas and other for beads at the correct prices
        4. ... fantasy is not enough ...

        Something tells me that, in the opinion of the United States (NATO), you have voiced quite reasonable and well-grounded demands. The only thing, 1000-1500 kilometers, is still threateningly close to Ukraine ...

        The fourth point is the gradual elimination of the imbalance in the quantity and quality of NATO and Russian weapons, and the demilitarization of the Russian army. Destroy ALL weapons, leave only the PM and only the officers. Arming the rank and file with stakes.
    4. 0
      17 December 2021 18: 05
      this treaty is just for Europe - if they sign, we will get a non-NATO zone, if they DO NOT sign, then we calmly put Zircons on Bastions, Calibers in Iskander and fasten the second stage to Iskander missiles and close 3/4 of Europe with hypersonic missiles ... Then it will be difficult to launch an offensive against Russia ... the game of Go in its purest form
      1. -11
        17 December 2021 18: 48
        The United States to the Poles are: Excuse me guys, we’ve signed an agreement with Russia here, so we are expelling you from Nata
        1. +3
          17 December 2021 22: 15
          hmm, maybe first it is worth studying the proposals from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs? It directly says that it is about the rejection of the former USSR members into NATO ... that is. Ukraine / Georgia ... what does the Poles have to do with it?
          1. -7
            17 December 2021 22: 44
            in this treaty it sounds something like this: Please do not take them to NATO, otherwise we will express our concern
      2. -5
        17 December 2021 19: 51
        Quote: Barberry25
        .Then it will be difficult to launch an offensive against Russia.

        and why did you decide that someone should step on you, and why?
        1. +3
          17 December 2021 22: 16
          This option should ALWAYS be taken into account. And the less chances of successfully fighting with Russia, the lower the probability of war ..
        2. D16
          +3
          17 December 2021 22: 29
          and why?

          Refusing to pay a carbon tax, for example, and putting together a coalition that will be a mutually supportive group capable of living comfortably. Your actions?
        3. -1
          19 December 2021 15: 30
          are you still asking why? the answer is the same as for the last five hundred years. for example, for gas and oil ...
      3. +1
        17 December 2021 20: 29
        Quote: Barberry25
        Go game

        I've been playing since third grade. good
      4. D16
        -1
        17 December 2021 22: 23
        fastening the second stage to the Iskander missiles and closing 3/4 of Europe with hypersonic missiles.

        We fasten, unscrew, zircons into bastions, calibers into escanders ... In this phrase, there are five years of R&D and another five years of testing and production.
        Then it will be difficult to launch an offensive against Russia ..

        If it were possible, it would have happened long ago.
        1. 0
          17 December 2021 23: 04
          1) who said that these ROCs are no longer being conducted? Or what the Americans said was true that the 9M723's range is significantly greater than the current 500 km?
          2) Zircon can already be loaded into Bastion-developer alone.
          3) Meet .. Caliber-m

          4) And one more thing, the fact that we are not being trumpeted about this from the media does not mean that nothing is being done ..
    5. 0
      17 December 2021 19: 09
      Quote: Zoldat_A
      All of Europe will sign, and the east, with particular hysterics, will scream about the "Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact 2.0" and that Biden is an agent of the Kremlin and Putin personally.

      Today's situation reminds me of 1939. Europe "smells" of war, the USSR is trying to stop it, through negotiations and providing security guarantees. All into emptiness. request By the way, there is talk about "Yalta-2" Another savagery of Russian politicians. In Yalta - the winners of the Second World War, they divided the world into spheres of influence! Whom did the Russian Federation defeat? "Yalta-2" is possible only after the third world war, and the Russian Federation will most likely carry out it with China (in case of victory), or the United States with NATO. Something like that. hi
      1. +4
        17 December 2021 20: 36
        Quote: fif21
        Today's situation reminds me of 1939. Europe "smells" of war, the USSR is trying to stop it, through negotiations and providing security guarantees. All into emptiness.

        And after that, at the beginning of the XNUMXst century, Russia becomes guilty for the fact that "the USSR plunged the world into the abyss of World War II by signing the shameful Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact." The last of the European countries, which had signed such agreements with Germany for a long time.
        1. -3
          17 December 2021 22: 46
          you can tell in more detail about the pact of four
          1. +1
            18 December 2021 06: 49
            Quote: Sergey Gusak
            you can tell in more detail about the pact of four

            An attempt to revise the results of the First World War. Unsuccessful.

            Is Google banned?
    6. +1
      19 December 2021 01: 43
      Eastern even welcomes. In the Agreement, a separate guarantee for Eastern Euro.
  2. 0
    17 December 2021 15: 46
    Or Masha is so naive or Vova has completely lost his scent, even if they sign it, they will still be deceived.
    1. +1
      17 December 2021 15: 58
      Quote: Kamarada
      Either Masha is so naive or Vova has completely lost his scent. even if they sign, they will still be deceived

      If the agreement is violated, it will be possible to do something "sharp". In reply. And so "crawl and crawl" ... Not paying attention to anyone.
      1. +2
        17 December 2021 16: 25
        They won't break anything. Just because they won't sign anything. It will be a ruin for them.
        1. +2
          17 December 2021 17: 42
          Well, the Yapas didn’t sign at the time either, so what? did it help them?
  3. +7
    17 December 2021 15: 48
    what ... ... ... ~. ... ...
    Filkina letter. negative
  4. -14
    17 December 2021 15: 49
    And if you take NATO yourself? It is always more convenient to ruin something from the inside - the adherents of the sect of the USSR will not let you lie.
    1. -2
      17 December 2021 16: 09
      Quote: TovSaaakhov
      And if you take and join NATO yourself?

      So already your zeroed leader asked, they did not take it. ((((Otherwise, together with the United States, Iraq would be robbed, Libya .......
      1. +8
        17 December 2021 16: 25
        bargaining will begin for each clause of the agreement, but this is already in the negotiation process.
        The author really thinks so ?! ...
        God! Amers handed over to the "filkin literacy" - their Wishlist, and in return they offer what is already there. What bargaining is that ?!
        Yes, with greater confidence in the fulfillment of desires, it is better to write a letter to Santa Claus!
        1. D16
          -2
          17 December 2021 22: 50
          Amers handed over to the "filkin certificate" - their wishlist,

          We'll see when they ignore it.
          What bargaining is that ?!

          In the future world order.
      2. 0
        17 December 2021 17: 43
        Well, this has never happened, and here it is again !!!
      3. D16
        -3
        17 December 2021 22: 39
        together with the United States, Iraq would be plundered, Libya .......

        Fantasy. Whom did we rob? In the worst case, they tried to make amends.
        1. -2
          17 December 2021 23: 14
          Quote: D16
          Fantasy. Whom did we rob? In the worst case, they tried to make amends.

          Have you carefully read the post that you are commenting on?
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          So already asked your zeroed leader, they did not take it. ((((And then would together with the USA Iraq would robbed, Libya .......
          1. D16
            -2
            17 December 2021 23: 18
            So I answered your guesses.
  5. +10
    17 December 2021 15: 50
    Waste of time and paper.
    Greta can howl about trees cut down on paper.
    The only guarantee of safety is only strength.
    1. +2
      17 December 2021 16: 11
      Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke
      The only guarantee of safety is only strength.

      good However, I will add, not only military, but also economic. Then ask yourself to sign such agreements, but for now ...
      1. D16
        +1
        17 December 2021 22: 52
        not only military, but also economic.

        All I will buy said gold. All I will take said damask.
        1. -1
          17 December 2021 23: 21
          Quote: D16
          All I will buy said gold. All I will take said damask.

          Economy is the blood of war. Why did the USSR defeated Nazi Germany? First of all, because he had a powerful economy, which he was able to preserve and transfer to a war footing.
          1. D16
            -3
            17 December 2021 23: 26
            Economy of the USSR compared to the then European Union lol ... Less than right now.
          2. -2
            19 December 2021 15: 35
            why did Germany defeat France?
    2. 0
      17 December 2021 17: 44
      Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke
      Waste of time and paper.

      why empty? our business is to offer, your business to refuse, and then .. well, we offered you request
  6. +1
    17 December 2021 15: 51
    Some Ukrainian media have already called the project a "brazen ultimatum" to Europe.
    Why arrogant? The usual normal ultimatum.
  7. +4
    17 December 2021 15: 51
    It is clear that there will be no quick signing of documents

    I guess it won't be there at all.
    As long as nothing threatens the Americans in their near zone, they can let Brussels as much as they like into the embrasure.
  8. -3
    17 December 2021 15: 53
    The real guarantee of Russia's security will not be a paper with any text you like, but the withdrawal from NATO of the Eastern European countries that were part of the Warsaw Pact. Only. There is a wonderful experience of Finland.
    Stop joking with the nuclear superpower whose name is Russia.
    The security of the United States and old Europe will not be affected in any way.
    1. 0
      17 December 2021 17: 40
      Your mouth, yes honey to drink ....
    2. -3
      17 December 2021 18: 51
      What is Finland's experience? They seem to be neither NATO nor the Internal Affairs Department.
      1. 0
        19 December 2021 10: 26
        Precisely, that did not consist. At the same time, in normal relations with Russia and with the rest of the world without any NATO. So Ukraine would be like that ...
  9. +1
    17 December 2021 15: 54
    NATO exists because it was created in opposition or vice versa to the Warsaw Pact. Russia replaced the USSR, so there will be constant fuss around our borders.
    1. 0
      17 December 2021 15: 59
      NATO was created earlier than the ATS. The USSR wanted to join ... with an understandable result.
    2. +1
      17 December 2021 17: 00
      NATO in 1949, OVD in 1955
  10. +2
    17 December 2021 15: 59
    Our business is to offer. Their business is to refuse. To furnish yourself legally in order to provide all kinds of assistance to the Russian Donbass, for example. Any help, I think you get the idea.
    1. +1
      17 December 2021 22: 47
      Quote: PalBor
      To furnish yourself legally in order to provide all kinds of assistance to the Russian Donbass, for example.

      Donbass needs will and resources to provide all kinds of assistance. Legally, as history shows, you can justify anything.
  11. +2
    17 December 2021 16: 10
    Well, in general, if the points are really like that, then yes, everything looks like an ultimatum and, indeed, the last warning for our potential opponents (sorry - partners)), after which, like in a fight, when you were pinned from all sides, you snatch, then what is at hand and you begin to knead everyone around until the enemies fall or you fall yourself.
    1. +2
      17 December 2021 18: 55
      Quote: pomor23
      looks like an ultimatum and, indeed, the last warning for our potential opponents (sorry - partners)), after which, like in a fight, when you were pinned from all sides, you grab what is at hand and start to knead everyone around

      I wanted to fight, and how strange it is for some reason, with full confidence that NATO will receive the money, what is this confidence based on?
      1. +2
        17 December 2021 19: 05
        Dear Alexander, where did you get the idea? I really do not want to fight, but it seems that we are not left with a choice, and I am writing about this, these are my feelings. Have you ever been pinned to the wall in a fight, or have you always resolved issues through diplomacy?)) And then, where did you read from me that: "What will NATO get for the cabbage soup?" You just didn't finish my quote: "until the enemies fall or you fall yourself." So, as you can see, I have no confidence in who will stay on my feet. Therefore, there is no need to distort and take quotes out of context.
        1. 0
          17 December 2021 19: 49
          Quote: pomor23
          I really don't want to fight, but it seems that we are not left with a choice, I am writing about this, these are my feelings

          no, with rhetoric like that of the Foreign Ministry and with such ultimatums?
          I am far from an expert, but yes, I have all these proposals except for what demagogic delirium does not cause any feelings.
          This statement is for internal use (for Russians). and not a serious offer to the other side.
          Here is another question. what is the internal opinion of Russia being prepared for?
          Do you really want to start a war?
          I wonder if Russia still invades Ukraine, how will you personally react to this?
          Quote: pomor23
          Have you ever been pinned to the wall in a fight, or have you always resolved issues through diplomacy?))

          Leave unnecessary metaphors, maybe I'll tell you / that the statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs looks like the presentation of an organized criminal group - this is our territory, we milk it and we will milk it and indicate what to do.
          Doesn't sound like the behavior of a presumptuous gopnik?
          I remind you once again that we are talking about independent states and Russia's demands in fact to leave their security to their own support.
          Russia has already guaranteed territorial integrity and guarantees of inviolability to one state.
          And who will believe you after that?
          Quote: pomor23
          "until enemies fall or you fall yourself"

          it does not discourage the desire for war. Do you really need it?
      2. +2
        17 December 2021 19: 56
        Quote: atalef
        I wanted to fight, and how strange it is for some reason, with full confidence that NATO will receive the money, what is this confidence based on?

        and you want the Russian Federation to collapse and what would be like in Syria where all men fought by themselves? Do you want missiles to fly to the center of the Russian Federation in 5 minutes even less? Do you want to be killed in the Russian Federation by the brave American soldiers hundreds of peaceful by mistake, or so by chance? If you don’t wake up, it will come to you, you think, although maybe you’re not from the Russian Federation if you want the Russian Federation! from a global strike, no one has refused to the Russian Federation!
        1. -5
          17 December 2021 21: 22
          Quote: opuonmed
          and you want the Russian Federation to collapse and what would be like in Syria where all men fought by themselves?

          and there are prerequisites for this?
          Quote: opuonmed
          Do you want missiles to fly to the center of the Russian Federation in 5 minutes even less?

          I am generally against missiles, but taking one step - you have to think about the consequences - this is about Russian-Ukrainian relations.
          Ukraine has never been involved in Russian affairs.
          Quote: opuonmed
          Do you want to be killed in the Russian Federation by the brave American soldiers hundreds of peaceful by mistake, or so by chance?

          what is it about 6
          you go to fight against Ukraine, killing dozens of civilians who speak the same language with you?
          Quote: opuonmed
          If you don’t wake up, it will come to you, you think, although maybe you’re not from the Russian Federation if you want the Russian Federation!

          I am not from Russia (now), although I have lived there for 24 years, but somehow it seems to me that you want to fight. in a foreign territory in a former brotherly country.
          Americans somehow do not climb to you.
          Quote: opuonmed
          from a global strike, no one has refused to the Russian Federation!


          so Russia, in its military doctrine, accepted the possibility of a preventive nuclear strike.
      3. -1
        19 December 2021 15: 37
        Have you seen how the Russian Aerospace Forces operates in Syria? but about the armament and equipment of the army do you really think that these are cartoons? Was it in vain that they invested in the army and created PMCs?
  12. +3
    17 December 2021 16: 18
    Why did they write only what Moscow demands? Here it is interesting what Washington and Brussels will get in return. As far as I know, negotiations are the negotiating parties who are looking for points of contact, or make concessions to each other. And it looks like an ultimatum.
    1. -3
      17 December 2021 17: 05
      If we study the issue fully, these are our wishes that we will perform together, they cannot be touched. The United States can only add its acceptable, adequate wishes. And that's all, nothing complicated.
    2. +1
      17 December 2021 19: 59
      Quote: Shiden
      Why did they write only what Moscow demands? Here I wonder what Washington and Brussels will get in return.

      gets nothing.
      And the States are still in a weakened position in front of China.
      Does anyone really believe in the seriousness of these proposals?
      1. -1
        17 December 2021 22: 09
        You know, at the beginning and middle of the 20th century, such a statement by the Foreign Ministry may have influenced world politics. But now it can be perceived as a bluff or to calm down your people. In short, you are being prepared for what they say on TV, we have done everything, but we will not start a war. Although it is clear from the skeletal actions that not everyone at the top is unanimous with the Kremlin's policy. Well, we even have China, they already have their own problems, there is no economic growth, and this is the first time in 40 years, the Congress of the Communist Party of China is on the nose where Comrade Xi will have to somehow prove that he deserves to remain at the helm in China.
        1. -2
          19 December 2021 15: 40
          under the congress of the Communist Party of China, he will fly Taiwan to his home harbor. and we rolled out an ultimatum under this case. the last Chinese so to speak. and then you will see for yourself ... and apparently you will be surprised ...
  13. +4
    17 December 2021 16: 19
    Conversations, conversations,
    Word for word stretches
    Conversations, conversations
    Dislike will remain ...
    P.S. Wait and see.
  14. +4
    17 December 2021 16: 21
    This is a joke. The United States will never sign such a thing. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of course will wave this initiative under their noses for many years to come. But the real result from this is pure zero.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. -2
      17 December 2021 16: 46
      Quote: AC130 Ganship
      This is a joke. The United States will never sign such a thing.

      This means that one name will remain from Ukraine and Georgia. Yes, there will be sanctions and all that, but what a way out of this is when bonfires are burning at the door of your house, and canisters of fuel are kept at the ready. It remains only to preferentially extinguish until it flares up.
      1. 0
        17 December 2021 17: 08
        Very correct analysis, if not signed.
      2. 0
        17 December 2021 17: 54
        Quote: kventinasd
        It remains only to preferentially extinguish until it flares up.

        I think this will not be limited. Remember the old Cuba project that was frozen in 1961? there now also Venezuela will take part ...
        1. +1
          17 December 2021 18: 10
          Quote: SanichSan
          I think this will not be limited to

          Venezuela won't give a ride here. I think it will be enough to force Ukraine to peace, albeit with grave consequences, but it will be a good lesson for everyone (those who border on the Russian Federation) to join the Western alliance. It is a pity that this demonstrative spanking was not finished in 2008.
          1. -1
            17 December 2021 18: 23
            Quote: kventinasd
            Venezuela won't give a ride here.

            I think that in the future, this is the same mandatory item as the enforcement of peace in Ukraine. one does not exclude the other. modern warfare involves counterattacks. Deaf defense is a losing position, so we will probably climb into South America.
            Quote: kventinasd
            It is a pity that this demonstrative spanking was not finished in 2008.

            apparently still hoped to come to an agreement. request not with Georgians of course bully
            PS
            Something a lot of ultimatums from our side has gone lately. one of two things, or, as someone wrote above, Putin lost his scent, or vice versa, he smelled prey. what
            1. 0
              17 December 2021 18: 31
              Quote: SanichSan
              apparently still hoped to come to an agreement.

              Recently, we have too many hopes for agreements and promises from Western "partners". It was necessary to understand back in 14, when Poroshenko was recognized as president and in 2015 the LPNR army was stopped from a final blow, that all agreements with the West were not worth a damn.
          2. -2
            17 December 2021 21: 48
            Probably, Hitler in 1939 also thought - "we will force Poland to peace, the Anglo-Saxons will not even intercede for her", but what happened?
            1. +1
              17 December 2021 22: 17
              What's not really bad for the censor, that he galloped here? You sometimes take off the pan when you think, although I doubt that there is anything to think about.
              1. -4
                18 December 2021 01: 29
                It so happened that he wanted to "force Poland to peace", ended up with a bullet in the bunker. Let's remind all "patriotic" horses.
            2. +1
              19 December 2021 15: 27
              Quote: Ivan1779
              Probably, Hitler in 1939 also thought - "we will force Poland to peace, the Anglo-Saxons will not even intercede for her", but what happened?

              so what happened? did they stand up? Well, yes .. so they stood up so they stood up. a little "sitting won", and then the ancient British fun - the escape from Dunkirk. well, and then they scattered thinly on their island until 1944.
              Quote: Ivan1779
              So it turned out that he wanted to "force Poland to peace", ended up with a bullet in the bunker.
              it so happened that "forcing Poland to peace" ended with the same Dunkirk, but the attack on the USSR had already ended with drinking poison and a bullet in the head. you have obvious problems with causation request
        2. -1
          19 December 2021 15: 41
          pain points are full. also the Focklands must return to their Argentine home harbor ...
          1. 0
            19 December 2021 15: 47
            Quote: vervolk
            the Focklands must also return to their Argentine harbor ...

            there is a problem. the British massacred the indigenous population there. only the British live there now. well, if everything crumbles, then I think that the Argentines will gladly do the same with the British as the British did with the Argentines in their time request
            1. -1
              19 December 2021 15: 49
              the worse the better. there are a lot of questions to small-brits. across Gibraltar across Ireland and Scotland, soon they will sit behind the Thames and not shine ...
  15. -2
    17 December 2021 17: 02
    How many loud speeches there have been that the country is reliably protected and will be able to withstand any enemy, and now ask the enemies for security guarantees. the ruling clique will ask for guarantees of the safety of its money and property. The spirit of your leaders does not. As they were corrupt cowards, they remained. There is no point in good weapons if you are afraid to use them.
    1. 0
      17 December 2021 18: 02
      Quote: l.Jensen
      and now ask your enemies for security guarantees.

      when someone was asked for something by an ultimatum? it looks more like a draft act of unconditional surrender by the United States. have you read the RF requirements? well read it wink if they don’t sign, and the United States certainly doesn’t sign, then Russia’s hands are completely free. we offered to agree, you refused. now Russia can also deploy missile bases wherever it wants, for example in Cuba and Venezuela, if necessary, use military force against Ukraine, etc. we offered on good, if you don’t want it you can as usual wink
    2. -1
      19 December 2021 15: 42
      I sympathize with you personally and the entire Ukrainian people in this regard))))))
  16. +5
    17 December 2021 17: 02
    Interestingly, if the States, on the contrary, will demand the observance of the post-war borders, will they return Crimea?
    1. -1
      17 December 2021 18: 06
      Quote: Barge_watchman
      if the States, on the contrary, demand the observance of the post-war borders, will they return Crimea?

      you probably wanted to say Ukraine? bully Crimea has already been returned. if the post-war then it is still half of Germany to give, well, there are all sorts of Poland with the Balts. you have not forgotten that Russia is the legal successor of the USSR, not the RSFSR wink
  17. -1
    17 December 2021 17: 37
    Well done. Tough and diplomatic. Now, the main thing is the process of "bargaining".
    I wonder if bargaining is appropriate?
    And if not appropriate, then what?
  18. +7
    17 December 2021 17: 38
    Neither RI nor the USSR wrote such funny documents. And then they were afraid. And now a psychiatrist will be invited in Washington to analyze the document.
    1. -5
      17 December 2021 17: 50
      Quote: Keyser Soze
      And now a psychiatrist will be invited in Washington to analyze the document.

      Their Congress has long needed psychiatrists.
      1. +3
        17 December 2021 19: 19
        Their Congress has long needed psychiatrists.


        But these bad people, Oleg, should not be underestimated at all. As if they had set up an excellent life for themselves - they chose a senile old man for the president and now walk the field for lobbyists. In general, as ordinary amers are not ashamed of this old man, I just do not know, but they have a different psychology and they do not care what we think.
        1. 0
          17 December 2021 19: 51
          Quote: Keyser Soze
          but they have a different psychology and they don't care what we think.

          Because a serious war did not concern their territory, and for the most part they also think that today they will hide behind a big puddle, and they will establish their own rules in the world as before.
          Lafa ends, Russia or China is not helpless Iraq and Yugoslavia, here the stakes will be higher.
        2. -4
          17 December 2021 21: 51
          On the other hand, no less senile old man, V. V. P.
    2. +4
      17 December 2021 18: 25
      This is for domestic consumption. The Americans will twist their fingers at their temples, and they will tell us about the bloody aggressors. It will be eaten by militant pensioners (who will not go to war if anything) and will buhurt here.
      Fortunately, our youth is far from this.
      1. +3
        17 December 2021 19: 23
        will be eaten by militant pensioners (who will not go to war if anything)


        I agree with you, Sergei. With the amendment that no one will fight with anyone. Governments around the world are only at war with their own peoples and cut money. And they throw dust in our eyes with slogans so as not to think about hanging them on the lanterns. hi
        1. 0
          17 December 2021 22: 16
          The Russian people are not so imperial, they also want simple human happiness.
  19. +1
    17 December 2021 17: 43
    The United States will not sign such an agreement. And if they do, they won't do it.
    We do not need to sign treaties with the United States. We need to do everything to make the United States fall apart. And there is no need to hide it.
    Our diplomats and experts should regularly publicly declare:
    1. That the US army is completely incapable of combat.
    2. That the entire "economy" of the United States is a sheer bluff.
    3. That Texas and a number of other states will secede from the United States in 2024. (or 2025).
    4. That thousands of wealthy people are fleeing the United States to save their lives.
    5. That 66% of US Senators and Congressmen are drug addicts and mentally disabled. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. It is important that this is what the expert said. Americans love expert opinions.
    6. That the United States is a Nazi country and is the enemy of all mankind.

    Panic needs to be spread in the United States. Americans are a hysterical nation, and this should be used.
    1. Alf
      +6
      17 December 2021 18: 17
      Quote: Egor53
      Americans love expert opinions.

      OWN experts, but not foreign ones. Or do you seriously think that Rush Today is listened to and watched in the USA?
    2. -3
      17 December 2021 18: 21
      The DPRK also says that almost all Americans are queuing up for a bowl of soup. Only all this porridge with Mayanez will be consumed by the audience of sites like topwar.ru.
      Although, in principle, all these points are already known to local turbo-patriots.
    3. -2
      17 December 2021 21: 52
      Here you are, a funny, enchanting eccentric.
    4. +1
      18 December 2021 21: 19
      There is such an "expert in quotation marks" named Khodorenok. He will subscribe to you under any information, just pay. American aircraft carriers are bullshit. F35 sucks. Missile submarines can be heard 500 miles underwater. Well, etc
  20. +2
    17 December 2021 17: 43
    Is it possible to count on the West to fulfill even the agreements it has signed on anything? ... What is our leadership really counting on? Does it know something or is it a gesture of despair on our part? Or does the West really need it, but it cannot voice it without losing face?
    1. +2
      17 December 2021 20: 04
      Quote: Reklastik
      Is it possible to count on the West to fulfill even the agreements it has signed on anything? ... What is our leadership really counting on? Does it know something or is it a gesture of despair on our part? Or does the West really need it, but it cannot voice it without losing face?

      rather, if they do not sign it, then it will not be people who will speak, but weapons, and this is all the problems of the USA, Europe, the Russian Federation and the DPRK, etc. everything is already simple, otherwise if the shas do not do it, then the missiles with hypersound and in space the oparaty and it is possible to strike a global blow at all points in the Russian Federation and shoot down the answer on takeoff, that is, if the shas does not worry about it, then soon it will be too late no one else RF will not ask!
    2. -1
      19 December 2021 15: 54
      logically there are only two options.
      1.This is a deliberately impracticable ultimatum, the refusal of the West will provoke an attack by Russia simultaneously with China ...
      2.the West is ready to hand over Eastern Europe in exchange for the neutrality of Russia during the showdown with China
      and it is possible that each side is playing its own version and who will replay whom is still unknown ...
  21. +5
    17 December 2021 17: 45
    So, what is next? They will refuse and there will be another tantrum of Zakharova laughing
    1. -7
      17 December 2021 18: 14
      Quote: smaug78
      So, what is next?

      Then there will be an indicative flogging of the APU.
      1. +3
        17 December 2021 18: 44
        How funny, you probably write from a burning tank, sofa warrior? laughing
        1. -2
          17 December 2021 19: 16
          I won my own, and the sofa is only burning with you.
          1. -2
            17 December 2021 22: 18
            couch hurray veteran? laughing
    2. -1
      19 December 2021 15: 55
      they will refuse and Russia will simultaneously return its territories with China ...
  22. +11
    17 December 2021 17: 54
    Complete nonsense, really rukalitsa
    So, among the conditions - the exclusion of NATO expansion and Ukraine's joining the alliance; the exclusion of the deployment of additional military and weapons outside the countries in which they were in May 1997; abandon any NATO military activities in Ukraine, Eastern Europe, Transcaucasia, Central Asia; do not deploy intermediate and shorter-range missiles where they can hit the territory of the other side, etc.
    and further
    In the draft treaty on guarantees, the United States and Russia undertake not to use the territory of third countries to attack each other; the parties should maintain dialogue and interact to prevent hazardous activities in the air and at sea; nuclear weapons can be deployed only on their own territory, and those already deployed in other countries are returned, etc.

    The person who prescribed all this at a high level is "Mr. Rose-colored glasses" he should be kicked into real life with a felt boot, writing fairy tales for children. In such a presentation, it all looks like an almost surrender of NATO, it's just ridiculous!
    The most useless item is "nuclear weapons can be deployed only on their own territory" - so they are deployed only on "their" territory - the territory of the Russian Federation or NATO members. This item will in no way interfere with NATO's mobile component - nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers. I don’t think that they were very scared of Lukashenka’s accommodation proposals there - except for Lukashenka, no one would offer us this in a nightmare.
    The most important thing is why this is a profound, clinical utopia - that we have nothing to offer in return for NATO. They know very well that we will not attack first, and even if suddenly, it would be in their hands, because after they would have casus beli and complete card blanche. They are completely satisfied with the current situation - we are not completely satisfied. We have nothing to offer for this, so all these projects are not worth the paper they are written on. This is a fantasy.
    1. +8
      17 December 2021 18: 14
      Yeah, it's like coming to a bank with your own draft loan agreement.
      1. 0
        18 December 2021 01: 03
        Yes, it really does.
        But in this case, the bank's client seems to be hinting that in case of refusal to sign this particular loan agreement, one of the branches of your bank may simply physically cease to exist laughing
        1. 0
          18 December 2021 06: 15
          he does not hint at anything there, in the text of the treaty the world is friendship and chewing gum)
          1. 0
            18 December 2021 09: 27
            Verbally hints). Outlined the deadlines for signing the document and is ready to storm the branch)
            1. 0
              18 December 2021 14: 31
              A straitjacket is an iron option for such inadequate)
        2. 0
          19 December 2021 13: 43
          So the branch is only part of the bank! I think the United States should have this ultimatum just in time, it's time for them to deflate the inflation bubble. The war on the other side of the world will help them. By the way, one of Bloomberg’s stuffing about the war with Ukraine greatly adjusted our exchange, but if it’s real !?
  23. -2
    17 December 2021 18: 11
    Do you have a resource for the project?
    1. -2
      17 December 2021 18: 25
      The first agreement: https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso/nato/1790818/
      The second agreement: https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso/nato/1790803/

      The website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is barely moving, apparently from a sudden influx of people who want to see this happiness with their own eyes.
      1. -1
        17 December 2021 18: 33
        Thank you, colleague, I found it, though I'm not Padva, but a certified lawyer, IMHO somehow scanty and each article can be interpreted as the counterparty wants.
        for example: the Parties do not use the territory of other states for the purpose of preparing or carrying out an armed attack against the other Party, or other actions affecting the fundamental security interests of the other Party.
        How to determine that this goal is? Steal Barbarossa's plan? What are core interests?
  24. -2
    17 December 2021 18: 15
    Some Ukrainian media have already called the project a "brazen ultimatum" to Europe.
    The project can be called "arrogant", but it is forced and justified. And the statement made earlier by the head of the General Staff of the Russian Federation Gerasimov, its flip side, which certainly, without impudence, and in line with the statements of "sick in the head" in the EU and the United States, and a wave of implementation. And to many "realists" it is quite clear that in Europe and in the States.
    1. +4
      17 December 2021 18: 20
      It cannot be called justified, because in the beginning all these countries lost along with the influence on them, and now they are running around to promise us that they will behave as they should. No, this is an absolutely unrealizable project with childhood dreams.
      1. +3
        17 December 2021 18: 25
        Quote: Kronos
        It cannot be called justified, because in the beginning all these countries lost along with the influence on them, and now they are running around to promise us that they will behave as they should.
        Judging by Stoltenberg's latest statement on NATO enlargement and rights, the European "miracle hawks" have decided to surpass their US counterparts.
    2. +2
      17 December 2021 18: 32
      We found ourselves in an extremely uncomfortable position at the junction of real security and information confrontation. any our attempt to "fill the price" within the framework of this hypothetical treaty (or behind them) will be regarded by the collective West as confirmation of the fears declared by NATO. In other words, the more savvy we threaten, the more they pour into the military budget, the more flexibility the neighboring EU countries will show, etc. We will find ourselves in the position of a "generator of bad news" - everything further will damage our safety. If we do not "generate the agenda" - activities that threaten our security are also proceeding, but at a slower pace, more smoothly and less noticeably. Corresponding at some point we are forced to react - but our reaction "generates the agenda," in short, it is a vicious circle.
      Threatening a collective NATO in any form is a bad strategy, our means, forces and resources are incomparable. On the contrary, at some point, in the event of a line of threats, the West will come to a preemptive strike strategy in the event of escalation.
      At the moment, this strategy apparently coexists with a defensive one.
      In this situation, it is difficult for us to do something reasonable and effective - unfortunately this is so. Probably, it would be worthwhile to conduct a dialogue not directly with NATO, it is still a military structure, and not even with the United States, this is still a state that is not afraid of our tanks and occupation - the dialogue should be conducted directly with the EU or with the EU flagships. It is the EU that needs to express our concern, it is the EU that needs to convey our vision of the desired structures in the west of the Russian Federation, and again, the fact that we would like to see Europe demilitarized and secure is also worth discussing exclusively with Europe. We have to approach them from two directions - from the point of view of economics, that defense, war, all these fucking tanks are very expensive, that wars in Europe have died down and ahead is economic integration, which is inevitable. And from the point of view of security, that the alternative to disarmament is the buildup of armaments, our development of the INF Treaty, large-scale military construction, and so on and so forth. If we play correctly on this line, even if not immediately, the Europeans will squeeze out NATO objects and subsequently leave its structures. This is now quite consonant with the idea of ​​the forces of its own security floating in the EU. If we are delicate and persistent enough in this direction, it seems to me the best direction of efforts.
      1. -1
        17 December 2021 21: 54
        What did you want to say? Be short.
      2. +1
        17 December 2021 23: 16
        It seems to me that if the EU has its own army, it will be even worse than the American armed forces in Europe ...
        1. 0
          18 December 2021 02: 02
          Potentially yes. Again, they may desire lands in the east. However, in fact, European states have very well remembered the two world wars, and there they perfectly (though not all) understand what nuclear weapons are and their impact on a European scale. So I would not be sure that in the short to medium term, the EU army can be a threat to us if we do not finally slide into a pile of decaying mince. Europe needs an army as such to resolve issues in the format of a European vision - in the Mediterranean, parts of the BV, possibly in Africa, and of course to protect the eastern borders (like from us). But the main motive here I see is the power support loyal to European interests. Overall, the EU economy is the second largest economy on the planet, while the total armed forces of the EU clearly do not correspond to this status. For a long time, the United States has turned from a real defender of the EU against the conditional "red threat" into a policeman and a competitor who puts a spoke in its wheels more and more often. So this trend, it will develop - now, of course, the United States is slowing it down, with their support and out of its own interests, Poland is torpedoing. A number of European states are generally indifferent to the issue, a number adhere to pro-American positions on it. But specifically, the flagships are looking for the opportunity to slip out of the clutches of the United States and remain at the same time in pants and with boots.
          This plays into our hands because, firstly, we are now much more mutually tied with the EU than before BB2, Europe has seen a war with us in its grave - we and so we bring everything to it regularly on a plate. Without the influence of the United States, the EU's restrictive line will be much more fluid; in the long term, an increase in symbiotic ties between us and the EU is inevitable, if we do not revive our imperial idea in the next 20 years and remain as a state at the same time. For the EU, we are thus a partner - albeit a dumb one, who must be feared and limited. And for the United States, we are precisely the enemy in all the diversity of this term. The less the USA is in the affairs of Europe, the better we are.
      3. -1
        19 December 2021 15: 58
        everything would be so if there were no china on the globe ..... attacks all your analytics in the trash. think narrowly, not accustomed to the Russian scale, right?
        1. 0
          19 December 2021 17: 56
          Well, yes, vaguely hinting is always a sign of a real Pro.
  25. -3
    17 December 2021 18: 34
    There is cool news, but the essence is not. Without danger, and in everything ... What, who, the crowd does not need. And here the Republic of Ukraine is not at all clear. Is she against the incomprehensible and indistinct "safe" choli? Surely Ze does not believe in colvidism?
  26. 0
    17 December 2021 19: 48
    if you do not agree, then you need to stop all these threats by any means! even if you have to bomb some countries! saboteurs to destroy bases, etc.
    I now think that 90% that disagree! they read the Russian Federation as the third country in the world! It's time to remind that the Russian Federation can that they will all gasp and think they will, as it were, return everything back!
    1. +1
      18 December 2021 11: 13
      Fewer exclamation marks and hurry ... What saboteurs, strikes? NATO does not even need to strike at us, we ourselves are burning and burning ships, right at the shipyards, which we have been building for 7-11 years. Go back to reality a little. Look at what Russian youth has won over and where, in which countries they dream of living and working. What are the best ways to fight NATO ?!
  27. +5
    17 December 2021 19: 55
    Ok bargaining has begun, they were asked not to include the remaining non-aligned stubs in NATO. (They themselves do not really need it, and it will be more relaxed) And what did we offer them for this to give, to do? This is the most interesting thing. They will not do anything for beautiful eyes, so that we will pay for resources at reduced prices with concessions?
  28. +3
    17 December 2021 21: 33
    The Russian side noted several conditions that must be signed, all of which are included in the draft. Thus, the agreement with NATO contains the following conditions: exclusion of NATO expansion and Ukraine's joining the alliance; exclusion of the deployment of additional military and weapons outside the countries in which they were in May 1997; abandon any NATO military activities in Ukraine, Eastern Europe, Transcaucasia, Central Asia; do not deploy medium and shorter-range missiles where they can hit the territory of the other side, etc.

    Enchanting nonsense.
    So in the agreement with NATO, there are the following conditions:
    1.exclusion of NATO expansion and joining the alliance of Ukraine- NATO restricts the sovereignty of countries participating in the "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties"
    2.the exclusion of the deployment of additional military and weapons outside the countries in which they were on May 1997- The Russian Federation, in turn, will return all its soldiers to the places of deployment where they were in May 1997. It will withdraw troops from Georgia, Crimea, Syria, etc.
    3. abandon any NATO military activities in Ukraine, Eastern Europe, Transcaucasia, Central Asia- The Russian Federation will refuse any military activity in the territories located in the zone of NATO interests
    4.Do not deploy intermediate and shorter-range missiles where they can hit the territory of the other side- The Russian Federation will abandon all medium and shorter-range missiles altogether, since there is no such place on the territory of the Russian Federation from which medium-range missiles cannot hit the territory of the other side
    5.etc. - in Brussels they are no longer surprised by the projects of the Russian Foreign Ministry.

    Russia has made its move, now we are waiting for reciprocal steps from Washington and Brussels. It is clear that there will be no quick signing of documents, and bargaining will begin for each clause of the agreement, but this is already in the process of negotiations. The main thing is that they start.

    There will be no bargaining. The Russian Federation has nothing to offer NATO in return. There will be rotational movements with the index finger at the temple and ignore.
    1. +2
      17 December 2021 22: 20
      Quote: professor
      There will be no bargaining. The Russian Federation has nothing to offer NATO in return. There will be rotational movements with the index finger at the temple and ignore.

      Well then, war! everything is already simple, if they go further, they will already threaten and deliver ultimatums to the Russian Federation, or simply strike a global blow with a flight time of 2-5 minutes that's all! You Shas said that NATO has nothing to offer there is Th will retreat and all the problems of the solution and the Russian Federation can sleep peacefully and NATO, but according to your words, like NATO, you will be squeezed by the Shas, but figs for you! Why do we need a world where there is no RF !!!!!!
      1. +1
        17 December 2021 23: 16
        Quote: opuonmed
        Well then, war!

        Bomb Voronezh?

        Quote: opuonmed
        simpleа if they go further, they will already threaten and deliver ultimatums to the Russian Federation or simplyа a global blow will be dealt with a flight time of 2-5 minutes that's all! you shas said that NATO has nothing to offer Th will retreat and all the problems of Reshiny and the Russian Federation can sleep peacefully and NATO, but according to your words, like NATO, you will be squeezed by the shas, ​​but figs for you! why do we need a world where no RF !!!!!!

        Who needs you? Will they be buried on your riches? Duc on the contrary. Nord Stream-2 You by hook or by hook are pushing the AKA hydrocarbons "natural wealth" for candy wrappers from the bourgeoisie. You push through, but the bourgeois are opposed. Circus.
        1. 0
          18 December 2021 01: 06
          Quote: professor
          for candy wrappers from the bourgeoisie to exchange. You push through, but the bourgeois are opposed. Circus.

          And what is there in Europe that China, for example, does not have? The circus will be when these Euroclowns are cut off hydrocarbons for a month or two, they themselves will creep up to sign any papers. Now Russia has learned to manage perfectly well without European investments, but they cannot get off the needle.
          If they do not agree to the conditions of Russia, then the war in Ukraine is inevitable, and for the European Union this is the collapse of all their investments in the Bandero project with all the consequences. There, in the Balkans, it is burning and winter with refugees is coming. laughing
          1. +4
            18 December 2021 06: 19
            Ukraine is remembered as predicted freezing back in 14, and nothing, smoking rooms are alive. IMHO, in addition to gas, the main export item is "freeze without it", but 1700 bucks is 1700 bucks)
          2. +5
            18 December 2021 11: 49
            Quote: kventinasd
            And what is there in Europe that China, for example, does not have?

            There is no technology. From the word "absolutely". The entire Chinese miracle is based solely on bourgeois technology. From my own experience 2008-2020.

            Quote: kventinasd
            The circus will be when these Euroclowns are cut off hydrocarbons for a month or two, they themselves will creep up to sign any papers. Now Russia has learned to manage perfectly well without European investments, but they cannot get off the needle.

            Yes. Only the Russian Federation has hydrocarbons, while the Arabs and Americans do not have them. But there is no alternative to bourgeois technologies. There is no medical equipment, no medicine, but airplanes. Even the sunny one drives a Mercedes.

            Quote: kventinasd
            If they do not agree to the conditions of Russia, then the war in Ukraine is inevitable, and for the European Union this is the collapse of all their investments in the Bandero project with all the consequences. There, in the Balkans, it is burning and winter with refugees is coming.

            What is this nonsense? RF in your opinion will attack a neighboring country?

            Once again: the Russian Federation has nothing to offer NATO and there will be no negotiations.
            1. -2
              18 December 2021 15: 07
              Quote: professor
              There is no technology. From the word "absolutely". The entire Chinese miracle is based solely on bourgeois technology. From my own experience 2008-2020.

              Is it China that has no technology, the country with the first economy in the world? laughing
              Unlike the United States, they have a lot to offer besides the service sector.
              Today, not a single country can do without Chinese investments, and if it can, it will not be at all soon.

              Quote: professor
              Yes. Only the Russian Federation has hydrocarbons, while the Arabs and Americans do not.

              While the spgshniki will arrange supplies in the required volumes for Europe, by that time it will be dead.
              Quote: professor
              What is this nonsense? RF in your opinion will attack a neighboring country?

              Imagine - YES!
              1. +4
                18 December 2021 16: 11
                Quote: kventinasd
                Is it China that has no technology, the country with the first economy in the world?

                Of course they don't have the technology. With rare exceptions. Since 2008, I have personally been involved in organizing production in China. By the way, can you name 3 Chinese advanced technologies?

                Quote: kventinasd
                Unlike the United States, they have a lot to offer besides the service sector.
                Today, not a single country can do without Chinese investments, and if it can, it will not be at all soon.

                Yes. Boeing and Caterpillar is a service industry. Do not confuse consumer goods with high-tech production.
                And we, for example, run from Chinese investments like fire.

                Quote: kventinasd
                While the spgshniki will arrange supplies in the required volumes for Europe, by that time it will be dead.

                By 1980, it will be bent. By the end of the construction of your communism.

                Quote: kventinasd
                Imagine - YES!

                In your opinion, the Russian Federation is the aggressor country?
                1. -2
                  18 December 2021 16: 48
                  Quote: professor
                  Of course they don't have the technology. With rare exceptions.

                  The military budget of China is 5 times less than the American one, but at the same time the country's navy by 2030 will be more than the navies of all NATO countries combined. In 1990, China's GDP was less than 2% of the global one. By 2020, its share has grown to 19%. In just three years, from 2011 to 2013, China used more concrete than the United States in the entire 20th century. In 1990, the rural population of China had one refrigerator for every 100 households; today the number is 96. In 1990, China had only 5,5 million vehicles on the road; today it has 270 million, of which 3,4 million are electric motors, accounting for 47% of the world's car park.
                  In China, WeChat Pay has won 84% of the smartphone market share. In 2018, WeChat Pay made 1,2 billion transactions per day, while Apple Pay globally made one billion per month. And that's why in 2019, total gross spending in China through mobile apps (347 trillion yuan, or roughly $ 54 trillion) was 551 times greater than total spending in the United States (98 billion dollars).
                  The country is leading the pace of digital infrastructure construction, for example, creating the world's largest fiber optic network. Almost 1 billion Chinese use the Internet. More than 700 thousand 5G stations have been built, to which about 200 million users have already been connected.
                  Neither the trade war with the United States nor the coronavirus pandemic have prevented China from continuing to accelerate its investment in innovative technologies, which increased by 2020 percent in 10. Already textbook was the mention of the creation in China of the most developed and modern network of the fastest railways in the world, which continues to expand dynamically.
                  The global achievements of China can be enumerated for a long time, some of them are less noticeable, but just as important and large-scale, such as quantum technologies, the development of a method for accumulating solar energy and the launch of its own nuclear reactor of a new generation.

                  Already (2020), China's government spending on R&D has reached 2,44 trillion yuan ($ 378 billion), accounting for 2,4% of GDP. By the way, this is twice as much as the entire defense budget of the PRC for 2020 ($ 178,8 billion).
                  Today this country possesses a resource that no other has: hundreds of millions of people who have experienced unprecedented change and are therefore able to embrace and adapt to innovation at a speed and scale not available anywhere else on earth.
                  Quote: professor
                  In your opinion, the Russian Federation is the aggressor country?

                  Russia is a collector of Russian lands! And we have never loved traitors (Bandera Ukraine).
                  1. +2
                    18 December 2021 17: 51
                    Quote: professor
                    By the way, can you name 3 Chinese advanced technologies?

                    Quote: kventinasd
                    Russia is a collector of Russian lands! And we have never loved traitors (Bandera Ukraine).

                    In your opinion, the Russian Federation is the aggressor country and will attack its neighbor?
                    1. -1
                      18 December 2021 19: 03
                      Quote: professor
                      By the way, can you name 3 Chinese advanced technologies?

                      1. The world's first atlas of human cells was created in China.
                      2. A Chinese team of researchers for the first time cured a hereditary blood disease using genome editing technology.
                      3. On December 4, Chinese scientists developed the most powerful quantum computer in the world and named it "Jiuzhang". The new quantum computer can implement large-scale GBS (GBS) 100 trillion times faster than the world's fastest supercomputer.
                      4. On November 10, the Chinese manned deep-sea underwater vehicle "Fenduzhe" ("Fighter") made a submersion to a depth of 10909 meters.
                      5. In 2015, China launched the mass production of artificial corneas. Developed by Chinese bioengineers, the outer shell of the eye is the world's first artificial cornea.
                      6. In September 2016, China launched FAST, the world's largest filled aperture radio telescope. The telescope has a diameter of 500 meters.
                      7. In August 2016, China launched the world's first quantum communications satellite Micius into orbit, which is designed to create "burglar-proof" quantum communications.
                      8. In China, the latest modern technologies are widely used (and not only in industry). So, in August 2015, the world's first factory without people began to work. Its ten assembly lines, which assemble cell phone components, employ many robotic arms 24 hours a day, and the entire factory staff is 60 people, working only with computers. In terms of the number of industrial robots used in production, China has long surpassed Japan.
                      9. The world's first supermarket with an area of ​​about 20 thousand square meters operates. m, where you can buy a robot for every taste: a robot vacuum cleaner, pool cleaner, floor cleaner, a robot for cleaning the computer screen and removing crumbs from the desktop, a robot that brews tea and automatically cracks nuts, and finally, a robot caring for lonely old people , and a robot nurse.
                      10. In 2010, China overtook the United States to become the world leader in installed capacity for wind turbines, surpassing the 40 GW threshold. And by June 2015, wind farms in the country were producing 105 GW of electricity.
                      11. China has begun construction of the world's first solar power plant in outer space. The project provides for the creation of 6 sq. km of giant solar panels that revolve around the Earth at an altitude of 36 thousand km.

                      Do you want to continue, or is Google not working on it?
                      Can your srail boast at least half of this list? laughing
                      1. +2
                        18 December 2021 21: 18
                        Quote: kventinasd
                        Do you want to continue, or is Google not working on it?

                        Continue. I always like to read the propaganda of the PDA on a mobile phone assembled in China using American technologies when I fly on a Boeing of a Chinese airline to an American plant near Shanghai, where we introduce Israeli and German technologies, since China has NOTHING of its own. Nothing at all. But most of all I like to communicate with my Chinese colleagues who talk about the achievements of the national economy of China themselves buying Volvo and Peugeot and prefer not assembled in China. And yes, Google in China doesn’t mess around. His Communist Party is filtering. I have to go to the local Google through the servers of our company in Hong Kong.

                        I like to rejoice together with the gender rector whose daughter went to study at a university in Manchester, and not in Shanghai.

                        I always like to bring my Chinese colleagues bourgeois medicines that they cannot find in China during the day with fire.
                        It is always interesting to communicate with Chinese graduate students at the Technion and the faculty of the Technion branch in China itself.

                        I like a lot about China.

                        Quote: kventinasd
                        Can your srail boast at least half of this list?

                        To you to our Israel as to Paris in reverse, my young friend.



                        Yes, and Kata is far from us. They take quantity and quality. hi
                      2. -2
                        18 December 2021 22: 09
                        Quote: professor
                        To you to our Israel as to Paris in reverse,

                        There is no need to exaggerate the possibilities of your temporary state. laughing
                        You there with your 9 million, without the states and permission of Uncle Stalin, would still wipe your backside with stones. Not even able to make his own vaccine. tongue
                      3. +2
                        18 December 2021 23: 02
                        Silently envy us and China.
                        I gave the graph above. Take a closer look at him.
                        It shows a lot and what it costs "the world's first vaccine".

                        Russia has nothing to offer NATO. On this axiom we will finish. hi
                      4. 0
                        18 December 2021 23: 13
                        What to envy, life on a powder keg?
                        Iran will erase you and will not blink an eye, and the rest of the Islamic countries will only applaud this, even those that allegedly support neutrality with you. Where are you going to run, to Birobidzhan? laughing
                        And yes, TEL-AVIV, July 23rd. / TASS /. The data of the Israeli Ministry of Health indicate a decrease in the effectiveness of the vaccine of the American company Pfizer to 39% in the prevention of infection with the delta strain of coronavirus, I suppose after Omicron the situation will only get worse
                        An example of the effectiveness of a Satellite - San Marino!
                        And these graphs depict the business of the elite of pharmaceutical companies, so that the people flee to get vaccinated, no more. The statistics are completely different.
            2. -3
              19 December 2021 16: 06
              oooo how not ashamed to throw up such rude juggling ... so point by point
              practically all the microchips of the world electronics are obtained from Taiwan, a bunch of all the rest of the electronics for your "western" technologies comes from Southeast Asia.
              Arabs have carbohydrates. and not only for them. but no one has pipelines to Europe. and without this it turns out to be expensive and to supply little. Was it by chance that it happened, but the project of the pipeline through Syria was frozen due to the civil war. and while the territory of Syria under the control of Russia is unlikely to resume.
              all medicine is india. who made the first vaccine, you've probably heard more than once already gritting your teeth.
              Aircraft of the Russian Federation and itself makes both military and civil.
              and the cherry on the cake. solntselikiy rides on the aurus)))) by a random whim of fate it is made in Russia)
              1. +3
                19 December 2021 17: 35
                Wrote a detailed answer, but it disappeared. Now, briefly:
                1. Almost all microchips, world electronics, that are produced in Taiwan are produced according to Western technologies and only on them. Taiwan is a big assembly shop and nothing more.

                2. The cheapest way to transport hydrocarbons is by sea. This is exactly what their largest suppliers do.

                3. The project of a pipe through Syria has never existed, but if they wanted to pull a pipe, it would be possible to bypass Syria. Like KATSA.

                4. All medicine is not India, but the USA and Europe. You tried to sell Sputnik without EfDiH and flew by. The USA, Europe and even Israel do not recognize Sputnik.

                5. Aircraft of the Russian Federation itself makes both military and civilian, but flies on Boeings and Airbuses. Send Aeroflot.

                6, Photo of the sun on a Mersey to spread?

                Russia is spelled with two "s".
                1. -3
                  19 December 2021 18: 17
                  point by point my untrue opponent
                  1.produced in Taiwan and southeast asia on a full technological independent cycle. you can call the technology, Western or Middle Eastern or democratic, but this does not stop microchips from being Taiwanese. I understand you, due to your socio-cultural characteristics, like to look for incidents and contradictions, but here it does not work. the chips are Taiwanese and none of the Western ones are halal and not any other, no matter how you would like it.
                  2. you are extremely uneducated in the field of transportation of carbohydrates. the cost of LNG transported by sea starts from $ 2000, and you can enviously look at the cost of pipeline LNG in the Russian Federation in the open access in the concluded contracts.
                  3. Never say "never" if you don’t understand something And now the accidental wisdom of the rulers of the RF so unloved by you put an end to this project, which is harmful to Russia.
                  4.whatever one may say, but the world's first COVID vaccine was produced in Russia
                  5. yes flies on Boeing and Airbuses. and uses Chinese phones on Taiwanese microchips. but has its own aviation industry. Israel, for example, does not have it))))
                  6.I can show you a photo of the governor of california running through the jungle after an alien, and the president of ukraine playing the piano with his genitals. better be guided not by the photo, but by the official info https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_car_of_the_President_Russia
                  1. +4
                    19 December 2021 19: 54
                    1. Why are there so many letters? Just name the Taiwanese equipment manufacturers FABs, wafer cutting, peak eng place, ultrasonic soldering, testing and further down the list, and I will tell you what equipment they use. Then I will share my personal experience. By the way, have you been on the assembly line yourself? In Taiwan or the Philippines? In China?

                    2. About your "extreme" education, which does not allow you to write without grammatical errors, I will keep quiet. The leader of the world hydrocarbon production is the USA and (OH MIRACLE !!!) they are transported by bulk method. The pipelines are resting. Educational program for you.

                    3. A link to a non-existent project does not roll. Basic questions: who is the project manager, budget, Gantt? There is not? Well, there was no such project from the word "absolutely".

                    4. Why twist? A vaccine that has not yet completed a series of clinical trials and is not recognized in the world as the "first" only in Russian propaganda.

                    5. Firstly, Israel has its own aviation industry and is quite advanced (the Russian Federation buys the products of the Israeli aviation industry, and not vice versa), and secondly, it is strange to compare the country with a population of 140 million and 9 million. Compare the Russian aviation industry and the American one and pass it on to Aeroflot.

                    6. You'd better show how the American president drives an official Mercedes, and I'll show you a sun-faced official Mercedes.
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  29. lot
    -2
    17 December 2021 22: 11
    Has Zakharova changed the chanel for a newcomer? where does such weakness come from? It also gives guarantees !?
    Maybe Klitschko wrote her a speech? ))
  30. +1
    17 December 2021 23: 37
    ... Answer us, otherwise - if you don’t answer - we will write to "Sportloto"!
  31. +3
    18 December 2021 11: 02
    No one will give any legal or other guarantees to Russia and will not change anything in its strategy due to the fact that Russia is economically very weak, and if it weakens further, protests and riots will begin, which means that the West will have a chance to change Russia's leadership to a puppet like Yeltsin's. ... And second, the United States has long understood that there is no one in the Kremlin who wants to really fight the United States and NATO, even in a local conflict. It is one thing to drive troops along the border and ride those who have no analogues in the world at parades, and it is another thing to fight a technologically advanced enemy. The West and the United States will push further, move troops, weapons, radars to the border itself. Pressuring with sanctions and provocations. The NATO resistance train left in 2013, when they allowed Yanukovych to be overthrown in Kiev, when they did not help Berkut and Donbass, the junta in Kiev was officially recognized and the elections of Poroshenko were recognized. It was the Kremlin's miscalculation, a shameful miscalculation, which now comes around hundreds of times in the history of Russia and only a loss.
    1. 0
      18 December 2021 13: 07
      fighting a technologically advanced enemy is another matter
      - and where to fight with him, in what territories? Yes, and NATO members are not eager to fight, one might say, they also do not want to fight an enemy like us.
      1. 0
        18 December 2021 15: 22
        Therefore, they will continue to do their job, to arm Ukraine, Georgia, Poland and other border countries, regardless of whether they are NATO members or not. NATO will be at the borders of Russia. Russia needs to move the capital of the state beyond the Urals, industrial centers also into the interior of the country, develop tactical hypersonic missiles with small nuclear warheads and carriers - for limited nuclear strikes on decision-making centers in Europe, the West should know that Russia has them and will be used if it presses ...
        1. 0
          18 December 2021 16: 49
          With such a neighbor as China at my side, I would pay great attention to weapons systems covering very large areas ... And for Europe and the United States, the existing nuclear weapons will suffice.
        2. -3
          19 December 2021 16: 10
          or just once on stupid lymphocytes and instill fear of Russia for the next hundred years ...
    2. -4
      19 December 2021 16: 09
      soon, somewhere in January-February, I advise you to stock up on popcorn. you will find a fascinating series "debunked illusions", see how the Russian Federation will return the territory to its native harbor and how the NATO soldiers will scrape by winding local Gauleiters on the wheels of planes ...
  32. -2
    19 December 2021 01: 41
    Purpose two contracts. Strong move of Russia. The ball is in the West field.
  33. -2
    20 December 2021 15: 57
    Some Ukrainian media have already called the project "an impudent ultimatum"
    Well, at least someone called this agreement by his own name. Only not "insolent", but quite an objective ultimatum.