Putin, in a conversation with Erdogan, raised the issue of the use of the Armed Forces of the Turkish UAV Bayraktar in the Donbas, in Turkey they commented

The Russian President held a telephone conversation with his Turkish counterpart, as reported by the Kremlin press service. During the conversation, the two leaders touched upon several main issues of the modern agenda, including the issue of negotiations between the authorities of Armenia and Azerbaijan, which took place the other day with the mediation of Vladimir Putin.

A separate topic of conversation was the use by the Armed Forces of Ukraine of shock drone "Bayraktar" Turkish production in the Donbass. Vladimir Putin, in a conversation with Recep Tayyip Erdogan, noted that the Ukrainian authorities continue the destructive line of disrupting the Minsk agreements. The President of Russia pointed out that instead of fulfilling its part of its obligations, Kyiv continues to use weapons, including strike weapons, which include the Bayraktar UAV, previously acquired from Turkey as part of the party drones.

The President of Russia noted that all attempts to forcefully influence Kiev on Donbass are frankly destructive. Also, the Russian president noted that the Armed Forces of Ukraine continue to commit provocations.

The Turkish press is commenting on these statements by Vladimir Putin. Once again it is noted that after the sale of Bayraktar drones, they already de jure cease to be Turkish, “becoming Ukrainian”. Thus, Ankara again makes it clear that the entire responsibility for the use of shock drones in Donbas rests entirely on the shoulders of the Ukrainian authorities. Ankara points out that this is a common practice in the sale of arms. It was also added that the internationally supported weapons embargo.

It should be added that during the telephone conversation the issue of compliance with the agreements on the Syrian Arab Republic was also raised.

Comments

[huntsman650]

Sabotage there from where they take off, as in Vietnam, from a double-barreled gun on takeoff)))

[MstislavHrabr]

NO. You need to install a dip. relations between North Korea and LDNR ...

[max91]

Ukrainian UAVs are still operating in the territory controlled by the Armed Forces and are conducting an observation mission. The LDNR created and tested the Unified System of Comprehensive Protection of Objects from Fire Destruction of the Enemy with the code name "Mantya-ARP". It combines air defense artillery with the Terrikon-M "N electronic suppression complex, which will provide systemic coverage of the air and ground space. In addition, the republic has modernized the Osa-AK (M)" anti-aircraft missile systems, inherited by the DPR militias in 2014. year as trophies from the Ukrainian army. ”

[Knight Templar]

Turkey is not afraid because it knows that it is beneficial for Russia as a partner.

[Carat]

We have nowhere else to buy tomatoes?

[Achilles]

Quote: Knight Templar

Turkey is not afraid because it knows that it is beneficial for Russia as a partner.

You just need to supply modern weapons (drones, high-precision missiles, etc.) to the Kurds, and it is not against you, Turkey will immediately sing a different song, but while we do not do that, they do whatever they want (this is me about the sale of buyroktar )

[Anatole Klim]

after the sale of the Bayraktar drones, they already de jure cease to be Turkish, “becoming Ukrainian”

Then, after the sale of Russian weapons to the Kurds, it already de jure ceases to be Russian, but becomes Kurdish, apparently it is impossible to agree

[tralflot1832]

Therefore, Erdogan ignores this, and the Kurds are shooting down Turkish helicopters and burning Turkish tanks.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Anatole Klim

after the sale of the Bayraktar drones, they already de jure cease to be Turkish, “becoming Ukrainian”

Then, after the sale of Russian weapons to the Kurds, it already de jure ceases to be Russian, but becomes Kurdish, apparently it is impossible to agree

How would America react, for example?

Russia would sell completely legally (there is no embargo) a nuclear charge of 200 kilotons to sheikhs from the Emirates. And the next Bin Laden would have that charge. And he would have jerked in the middle of Nuyorka. And I would have incinerated at the same time 8 million with a pendal.

Would America declare war on us, or would it immediately, preemptively?

[VyacheSeymour]

Then after the sale of Russian weapons to the Kurds,

And what is the Kurds ??? You thought you said
or so? ..- An ethnic group in several countries that has their own combat groups, and are considered terrorist by many countries? Abstract Kurds who do not have a state, who are citizens of states that are sometimes not hostile to the Russian Federation have already become a legal object of military-technical cooperation?

[Palmyra]

Well, can't you sell weapons to someone who can resell them to the Kurds? You can always find a way out.

[VyacheSeymour]

Well, can't you sell weapons to someone who can resell them to the Kurds? You can always find a way out.

... For example, the Syrian authorities? Or maybe Iraq with the Iranians ... Well, at worst, the Americans ... is not an option?

[knn54]

Have they really forgotten about Libya?

[Serge-667]

Reminiscent of a conversation between a blind man and a deaf person. It is also possible to present a claim to the Kalashnikov concern. The APU also fires from them. Drones are here what side if APUs are frostbitten? They are there for half a year shifting from foot to foot. I wonder how they weren't let off the chain.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Serge-667

Drones are here what side if APUs are frostbitten?

So that the sale of drones is primarily a political decision of Erdogan's "partner", who knew what they would be used for and deliberately went to aggravate relations with Russia, we do not sell weapons to the Kurds ... but we could, but why? Because this will negatively affect relations between Russia and Turkey, but the Sultan does not care at all.

[Serge-667]

Do Kurds have their own country and state bodies?
Ottozh ...

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Serge-667

Do Kurds have their own country and state bodies?
Ottozh ...

Is there some kind of UN embargo on the supply of weapons to the Kurds? Private traders will order, private traders will buy. Therefore, it’s not a question of legality or not, even if it’s impossible, but you really want it, you can ... there are a lot of various conflicts in the world where the parties buy weapons and use them for their intended purpose.

[Serge-667]

An embargo is an action against the STATE, and not a handful of persons on any grounds.
If the Russian Federation sells weapons to the Kurds, it will be called SPONSORING AND SUPPORTING a terrorist organization / activity.
Well, what are you doing?

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Serge-667

An embargo is an action against the STATE, and not a handful of persons on any grounds.
If the Russian Federation sells weapons to the Kurds, it will be called SPONSORING AND SUPPORT to a terrorist organization.
Well, what are you doing?

Who recognized them as terrorists? They were legally supplied by Western countries with weapons, despite the fact that the Kurds do not have an official state.

[Serge-667]

Read the following under our dialogue.
Literally in one or two posts.
I don't want to repeat myself.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Serge-667

Read the following under our dialogue.
Literally in one or two posts.
I don't want to repeat myself.

Posts by Alexandr Bogun? There is a slightly different dialogue about the legality of Turkey's arms supplies to Ukraine, but I'm telling you about other things, namely, that Russia, if it wants, can supply arms to the Kurds, despite the fact that they do not have an official state, this can go through private traders , or it can be done by the state, as the United States did, for example ... there are no restrictions that prevent the supply of weapons to the Kurds.

It is another matter that relations between Turkey and Russia will deteriorate because of such a step, but this is another question.

[Serge-667]

Well, if you insist on a purely political aspect, and not on legality and law, then answer the question:
- How was the influence exerted on the political level by the Russian Federation for the sale of drones to Ukraine?
And why did "Erdogan know" this? What kind of kindergarten? Weapons are sold and bought so that they can fight, and not play in the sandbox.

[Aleksandr21]

At the political level, the Russian Federation has not yet answered, but in theory it should ... after all, quite a lot of passports were handed out in the LPNR and now they are citizens of the Russian Federation, and Russia is obliged to protect its citizens, especially when they are threatened with physical destruction.

Regarding Erdogan, he perfectly understands everything, he throws firewood into the fire and is waiting for a big "fire" ... after all, neither China nor Israel have installed their drones in Ukraine, although on legal grounds they could have installed strike systems, but they know that such a step will only lead to even greater escalation in the region.

[Serge-667]

Pentagon urged allies to lift restrictions on arms supplies to Ukraine

This is news from 29/10/2021.

Why do you think the Pentagon? Why not Israel, London or even Brussels?
But because the agreements have been signed and money legalization is needed.
Israel is not the largest country in terms of arms exports. But the United States, yes.
In addition, for the United States, the arms market is the country's prestige and money. Well, according to their concepts. They do not care who sells weapons, except for direct enemies. They arm those in advance and on a more profitable basis, i.e. rubbish.
The fact that Israel is not officially yelling anywhere about weapons to Ukraine does not mean that it does not sell them to her.

[Aleksandr21]

US President Donald Trump has approved the supply of weapons to Kurdish fighters fighting the Islamic State in Syria.

Kurdish groups that are part of the "Democratic Forces of Syria" alliance will receive weapons and ammunition to drive IS militants out of their capital Raqqa, which they have been holding for more than two and a half years ("Islamic State" is banned in Russia).

A Pentagon source told the BBC that the United States is going to supply the Kurds with ammunition, small arms, machine guns, as well as construction equipment, including bulldozers and armored vehicles.

There were no problems at all.

[FrankyStein]

Of course have. Syrian Kurds, citizens of Syria, will negotiate a price issue with Assad. The Iraqi people generally have autonomy, and it is unlikely that there will be insurmountable obstacles to agree with the Iraqi government in which the Kurds are represented, they are far from happy that the Turks are driving around their territory in tanks.

[eckons]

And after the transfer of MANPADS to the Kurds, they cease to be Russian.

[Alexandr bogun]

Dear, before you ask such polls, it is advisable to read the article carefully. There it is written in black and white

Ankara points out that this is a common practice in the sale of arms. It was also added that there is no internationally supported arms embargo against Ukraine yet.

You see, one state is completely legal under official contracts "SOLD", and not "PASSED" as you say. Ukraine, no matter how we like this official state, and the Kurds are a people without a state, without a legal territory. Before they can sell or transfer something, first they need to be recognized and then problems begin with Turkey, which does not officially recognize them as a state, with Syria and Iraq on whose territory the Kurds are located. And to transfer or sell weapons to them is to recognize the legality of the seizure of the territory of Syria and Iraq on which they are located and do not obey the official authorities. Further, it is even more interesting, the supply of weapons to officially unrecognized countries will immediately come back to haunt the UN, and then many other places in the form of a "military embargo" are already against us. And why should such losses go to pinch Erdogan? So he will only be glad if we will give the Kurds for free or sell them for a couple of tens of millions of dollars, and because of the sanctions and the military embargo, billions, if not tens of billions will be lost. This is the difference between rational people and screamers, we are not in the economic situation that would be asymmetrically answered by the whole circle, especially when it comes to such trifles as these Bayraktars.

[eckons]

Sorry dear. Kurds are a people living not only in Turkey but also in Syria and Iraq, and nothing prevents Russia from selling MANPADS and other weapons to the Kurdish representatives of the Syrian and Iraqi authorities. And to whom they will hand over this weaponry does not concern us at all. And precisely because we are in the wrong economic situation. our answers should be asymmetrical.

[Alexandr bogun]

As far as I can see your previous comment, then you are talking about the "TRANSFER" to the Kurds, not to the Syrians or Iraq, which will transfer to the Kurds. I think you understood my remark and that's why you start talking about those who live legally and are not in the Kurdish ranks from the Syrian Kurdistan or the PKK in Iraq, they actually do not communicate with the local authorities, but they often fight at all. How are you going to transfer weapons to them through the Syrians or through Iraq, this is another question ... the locals understand very well that this is not a fact that only Turks will fly. And in general, with such cases, I want to believe that we have already learned after 2014, who just give BUKs or other MANPADS without control and all for such small goals as "we do not like that completely legally two countries trade", such a reason to go for risks with relatives of the Malaysian Boeing. Why do we need it? It's one thing to give a machine gun or a tank, and a completely different kind of weapon.

[eckons]

The Turks now have problems not only and not so much with the Kurds living in Turkey. how much with Iraqi and Syrian Kurds. And the authorities of Syria and Iraq, for the sake of being able to pile on the Turks, will calmly agree to such a deal. And what about the BUK in the 14th place?

[Alexandr bogun]

The Turks now have problems not only and not so much with the Kurds living in Turkey. how much with Iraqi and Syrian Kurds.

So I’m talking about this.

And the authorities of Syria and Iraq, for the sake of being able to pile on the Turks, will calmly agree to such a deal.

Well, if the authorities of Syria and Iraq are so stupid that they will transfer weapons from the relatives of MANPADS to those who shoot at them no less than at the Turks and to those who seized their own territory by armed means. Well, yes, it’s needed iq 80 to perform this kind of action))) This is the same as a thief climbed into your house with a knife, and because your neighbor is thumping and you’re scared, you give him a carbine. It is not clear whether the neighbor buhoy will come to you or not, but the thief who is already in the apartment and is already threatening you with a knife, he will definitely help with a carbine and there is less danger)))

And what about the BUK in the 14th place?

Listen, it’s one thing to argue about “we’re not there” with the sharavrniks, to deny an already understood incident in 2021, this is no longer about patriotism, but about the ability to compare 2 + 2. With so many photos, views and documentary evidence, argue now? I do not respect my time so much that I would spend it arguing about everyone understandable things.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

Listen, it’s one thing to argue about “we’re not there” with the sharavrniks, to deny an already understood incident in 2021, this is no longer about patriotism, but about the ability to compare 2 + 2. With so many photos, views and documentary evidence, argue now? I do not respect my time so much that I would spend it arguing about everyone understandable things.

But for me these are completely incomprehensible things. What do you want to say, dear? Speak bluntly do not play backwards

[Alexandr bogun]

Speak bluntly do not play backwards

In my opinion, I have written more than enough. Or do you want to write me down in the "sharavarniki" on the basis of my direct answer? I am not a prosecutor's office, but the material on the Internet is more than enough to understand "what and how." If you need an exclusively official statement from our Ministry of Foreign Affairs or other bodies, and only after that you turn on your head, then this is your business, you are either an extremely naive person, or you are not able to compare elementary things. There will be no more detailed answer from me, I do not want to waste time on srach.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

You write yourself into the sharovarniki, broadcasting the nonsense that these same sharovarniki posted on the Internet. Well, let's have a discussion about the facts that you operate from the Internet. As a person who served in the platoon for ensuring the work of the air defense missile system beech m 1, it will be very interesting for me to listen to you. How is it that an SDS with a radar viewing angle of 120 degrees was sent alone to combat work. Especially considering the fact that even all-round radar stations on the TOPs and Carapaces show themselves very poorly on their own.

[Alexandr bogun]

I repeat, if there is not enough information for you that has been in open sources for 8 years, if the Dutch court (about which we, as it were, did not speak of as corrupt) names the names, titles, parts, the battery number of the installation, the number of the installation itself, provides a photo and video facts of delivery of this particular installation with the border in the Rostov region, then shows on the video this installation already on the territory of Ukraine with 4 missiles. Provides first names, mobile phone numbers, wiretapping of these phones of people from the BUK convoy on the very territory of the DPR, then officially provided satellite images with BUK geolocation from the proposed launch sites. After that, there are negotiations between the convoy and the commander of the militia at that time, Strelkov, there is a video of how the same beech, as part of a convoy with already 3 missiles, returns to the border with Russia. There is now a prosecution witness from the BUK convoy in The Hague. And these are not classified materials, but open from the meetings of the MH17 process. I’m already silent about our behavior with the fact that the SU-25 attack aircraft shot down a Boeing at an altitude of more than 10 meters, then we began to talk about the fact that it was flying the SU-000, which did not return with all the missiles, then we agreed that the BUK was shot down but not the one rocket, then agreed that that rocket, but not from the point from which the prosecutors in The Hague claim, and there is still such a lot. It's just that if the desire is the truth to find out, and not to play in "I am not me and the horse is not mine," then the truth is not so difficult to find out and understand. I repeat, this is not a new situation, this has already happened and will continue to happen, sadly. It's just that in any situation you need to lead yourself with dignity and be responsible for your actions, then the attitude towards us in the world will be, though not friendly, but respectful. And when here we are a "great power", and as soon as something goes wrong, then excuses begin like a schoolboy who came home with a grade and does not know how to say it, then excuse me ...

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Dear, did you personally check the accuracy of these data for authenticity? You can wipe with your public access. Any video is edited in no time. Yes, only logic in your version is zero.

[Alexandr bogun]

Are you asking a question

have you personally checked the accuracy of these data for authenticity?

how do you imagine it? According to you, I went to the Netherlands, went to the court session, took the case materials from the prosecutors, returned home to Russia, then went to the indicated slaughterhouse, conducted interrogation and checked military warehouses for the presence or absence of a missile specific to the BUK complex, and all for that Would YOU prove that "a fly is not an elephant"?))) You hike not only do not want to return to reality, there is a little more honor and dignity than not, you are also stupid as a cork. If I tell you that "the earth is round" then in order for you to believe in it, I need to fly into space or send you?)))

Any video is edited in no time. Yes, only logic in your version is zero.

Yes, this is just the "LOGIC" much more than what I wrote)))

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Although to whom I say this, you are a troll shareholder, who just registered today

[Alexandr bogun]

Although to whom I say this, you are a troll shareholder, who just registered today

Well, first of all, you are already lying, I am far from here today and not registered yesterday. Secondly, are all those who registered in a non-specific (set by you) period, are they all sharavarniks? Or all those who try to operate with facts and logic in the discussion are shavarniki? Or maybe everyone whose opinion does not correspond to yours?) Banned logic, was born during the Soviet Union, studied already in the Russian Federation, served in the Russian Federation for 3 years, went to the forum, expressed a position that one sofa nonsense did not like and voila ... "sharavarnik"))) This is genius

[FrankyStein]

This "investigation" is based on cheap fakes thrown in by the SBU and Belinkat. This shitty sharashka is only engaged in criminal falsifications. What about Assad's chemical attacks? They were not there, it was already obvious to everyone, including the state officials, but they still struck, as a result, destroyed the infrastructure and killed people. Not to mention the fact that these bombs flew almost over the heads of the Russian servicemen, and everything could have ended in a nuclear exchange, the state officials raised the side of the doomsday. This is what this Belinkat is up to. Why didn't Trump admit his mistake and stop this madness then? More recently, in Afghanistan, state officials killed civilians with a drone, including children, they did not admit that they had hit civilians, they continue to insist that there were militants there. What do you say there about dignity, of which there are no madmen?

[VyacheSeymour]

The Turks now have problems not only and not so much with the Kurds living in Turkey. how much with Iraqi and Syrian Kurds

Are there problems with the Iraqi Kurds?
What dimension do you live in?
Iraqi Kurds have problems with the Iraqi authorities, but not with Turkey! All of their economic well-being rests on Turkey ... And the PKK (with its Turkish bases in the autonomy), the authorities of the Kurdish autonomy are driving worse than the Turks !!!

[Dizel200]

Completely good answer

[Rusticolus]

But let's say the governor of the Krasnoyarsk Territory decides to buy bayraktars from Turkey. Well, let's say for monitoring forest fires. On municipal funds if that. Whose will they be after they are delivered to Krasnoyarsk? Turkish, Russian, Krasnoyarsk?

[Alexandr bogun]

Krasnoyarsk Territory is a subject of the Russian Federation, which means that Bayraktars will also be Russian. Plus, in matters of the purchase of weapons, especially shock or dual-use, everything here goes through the state budget, no governor will buy anything from weapons from another country without the permission of the Kremlin.

[Rusticolus]

hence Bayraktars will be Russian.

Good. Then the second question, and whose subject are the Turkish Kurds? Well, Ukraine wants to sell, already Ukrainian, bayraktars - to Turkish Kurds. And these can easily. Whose then will these bayraktars be?

[Alexandr bogun]

My answer is that these Bayraktars will still be Ukrainian, not Kurdish. As I see you, you really do not understand or do not want to perceive such trifles as jurisprudence. " The Turks may not like it naturally and they will stop selling for political reasons. Now, with regards to the subjectivity of the Kurds. pulling the entire state into this, the subject of which they are.What exists both in the PKK and Iraq, or from the number of Syrian Kurdistan, these are states or entities that are not recognized by international law and the territories in which they are located are also seized by these organizations from the point of view of international law. they don't and belong. Kurdish armies There are no brigades in the Iraqi army, but there are ordinary Iraqi citizens of Kurdish origin who serve in the Iraqi army. Selling MANPADS personally to this soldier of the Iraqi army of Kurdish origin will not work, do you understand?

[Rusticolus]

And I'm talking about Turkish Kurds. They are not officially recognized by the United Nations as independent. In the opinion of the UN, they do not seem to exist. Well, the officially non-existent LDNR are selling this or that weapon to the officially non-existent Turkish Kurds. And since both parties to the transaction do not exist, then the transaction is the same, as it were, not. And where this weapon will be used is this internal Turkish case that does not officially concern anyone.
And I still do not take into account such a legal conflict as Crimea. If he sells something to someone, at least the same LDNR. Whose weapon would it be then?

[Alexandr bogun]

I already noticed that you and "jurisprudence" are like wet and square ...
First, how do you imagine the delivery of MANPADS of Russian origin to the territory of Turkey, under the conditions when Turkey completely controls its borders (if you are talking about the Turkish Kurds on the territory of Turkey)? You say that Russian MANPADS come to Turkey (for example) from the LPNR, and the LPNR has a border exclusively with Russia and that's all, after which you want to tell the Turks that it is not clear how the MANPADS of "RUSSIAN" origin that entered the LPRP territory got from Russia to them, and then again it is not clear how through the "RUSSIAN" border again somehow reached or flew to Turkey from the LPNR? And you think the Turks also have iq 80 and they will think: "what a bad LDNR!", Is this how you imagine it?
You understand that if it says that the Kurds were directly transferred to the Kurds MANPADS from the LDNR, it will mean that the LDNR has become on the side of the PKK terrorists recognized in Turkey. And we, in place of a trading partner, will give Ukraine a military ally, who will not only continue to sell Bayraktars, but also strike air or navy strikes against the LPNR as against the same terrorists who supply weapons to other terrorists. And from the point of view of international law and the official permission of the Kiev authorities, they will act on the same legal ambushes as we do in Syria. Very clever, are you by any chance a Ukrainian counterintelligence officer from the GUR?

[Rusticolus]

Turks do not understand what

then it's not clear again

Turks also have iq 80 and they will think

if it says

It's a treasure trove of legal terms. If only, if only. Maybe they will think, or maybe they will say.

[Alexandr bogun]

If you do not understand where the issues of jurisprudence go, and where I am giving an example from the point of view of the layman, since I am talking here with people who consider it normal to supply MANPADS to illegal armed groups in the state of Turkey, just because we do not like that the two states are between themselves they trade on a completely legal basis, just as we sell the Turks C 400 and the Americans do not like it, so they sell Bayraktars to Ukraine and we don’t like it anymore. Yes, I understand ... this is sooo difficult to understand and that is why I described the situation with a neighbor for a more colorful example, but as I see it did not help either. Well, that means you have such a level of thinking)

[Rusticolus]

I immediately noticed what your level of knowledge is. An ordinary sofa expert of everything and everyone. He picked up vershoks, and at the very first reasoned objection he began to weave axes about some neighbors and all the other nonsense of the grandmother's level at the entrance. Apparently juredicheskie terms all went to just one statement, and that's the end of it. Well, the passage about the agent burned you completely. Only in the xoxlogabon it is accepted to yell at each other: "The agent, the agent himself."

[Alexandr bogun]

Yes, you settled down comfortably, out of everything I wrote you saw only one reasoned example, but for that I reduced the whole discussion from almost a dozen of my comments to one example with a neighbor, after which I made some conclusions about my expertise Only I’m looking at my comments and I don’t see that I would consider myself some kind of expert ... the problem is that because of the wretchedness of your thinking, you took me for some kind of person claiming to be an expert point of view, but the whole truth is that I I live in the real world and I understand that the supply of weapons to unrecognized international actors is fraught with danger. Although this is not a novelty in the world, and when you go for such a thing, you need to understand about the consequences and whether it is worth it. So I wrote approximate consequences for people like you and concluded that the reasons for taking such steps because of the Bayraktars that do not concern us, at least officially, because we are not a party to the conflict and this is not used against the territory and troops of Russia. But no, it’s difficult for you ... and if I’m a sofa expert, then you need to go and cook borscht with your thinking, because even for a sofa, your conclusions are more an anecdote than an analyst or options for possible actions.))) And yes, only by to what I say, what you cannot refute with facts, then I’m a sharavarnik and nothing that I’m a Citizen of Russia, I was born here, I gave 3 years to the Russian army, but I

xoxlogabon

[nznz]

if you wish, everything is possible. the goods are impersonal, and they are generally of incomprehensible origin. can be transferred in a third country. and how the Kurds will deliver it is their problem. They know better. people are transported. for the loot Turkish border guards will not undertake to help?

[Alexandr bogun]

Well, because of such an attitude to such operations, it turns out that we say "We are an intermediary in the Donbass", but we are not told not and then the whole Internet in pictures from Donbass, then with Shells, then with Kamaz "Shot", then T-90A , then the T-72B3, the "Ratnik" uniform was driven there. And then why do they not believe us that we are not a party to the conflict, but a mediator ... If there was a mind in my head, then they drove the required number of "Arrows" and not "Shells", ordinary BRDMs, and not piece KAMAZ "Shot", do not drive the last modifications of the T-72B3 and even more so the T-90a, and the usual T-72B of which are so complete. But no, we need the Militias in a place of motley camouflage like the old "Bhutan" or "Flora", we need them in the "Digital flora" and "Warrior" to dress them so that the Militias are equipped as special forces "Pennant" or "Alpha". And then, why no one believes our arguments that we are an intermediary, it is necessary either in conspiracy and then about an intermediary, or to score and directly supply and not steam up the entire range of weapons that we deem necessary, but after that do not say that "I am not me and the horse not mine ", personally it is not pleasant to me.
No need to take others for idiots, MANPADS are not a Kalashnikov assault rifle, they just don't appear anywhere.

[eckons]

But if your neighbor says. that he wants to chop off your head. And the other neighbor will say. that he has a good ax and can sell it. Will you only have complaints about the first neighbor?

[Rusticolus]

And if it was you who sold this ax to this second neighbor, then how?
Well, here's a neighbor caught buy and sell.

[Alexandr bogun]

What kind of neighbors are we talking about? The article says about two states that trade, but we don't like that. You cite as an example the transfer of weapons by an official state to an unofficial one and the mechanism of what awaits us after that, I described. Then you wrote one unofficial state that sells to another, I also described the result, we’ll get tired of explaining to the Turks why they don’t need to bomb the LPR at the invitation of Kiev and the reason for the LPRK sale of LPRK to those whom the Turks consider to be Terrorists later. And now you tell me about some kind of two legal neighbors who are selling something to someone, there are no two legal and one buyer, there are Turks and Ukraine, and it’s as if we don’t have to do with it, the Bayraktars are not bombing Russia, we say that this is a Civil War in Ukraine. We just don't like something, but on their part everything is legal, we can only somehow convince Erdogan not to sell, and in order to threaten, we need to either annex the LDNR, or recognize them officially and then somehow take it under our wing as Transnistria. But the consequences will be very little pleasant to us and for a very long time, it is for this reason that this has not happened yet.

[Vlad1]

Nothing personal, this is business !!! When the Armenians of Russia were saying you are our ally why are you selling weapons to a country with whom we do not have a peace treaty and we could suffer from this weapon at any moment !! Russia said this business will not sell, we will sell someone else .. so what is the difference between the fact that Russia sold weapons to Azerbaijanis and Turks to Ukrainians ?? the difference is that the first case is against the allies being sold !!!

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

He will not decide, under him, and so the chair is swinging, he will not do such a stupid thing.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

Ukraine, no matter how we like this official state, and the Kurds are a people without a state, without a legal territory.

Who cares about borders in the 21st century? When there are hybrid wars (economic, military, political, etc.), and as far as I know, there is no official UN embargo on the sale of weapons to the Kurds, so you can at least officially put it, at least not ... the result will be the same: spoiled relations with Turkey, but Turkey itself does not seem to care much about relations with Russia, since it supplies weapons to Ukraine, and which will be used against the republics (and they are under the protectorate of Russia, and the whole world knows this), so there is no need to nod at the legality of such actions. .. the world has changed long ago and the rules too, take Syria ... on what basis are the US military bases there? On what basis did Turkey seize part of the territory of Syria? And after all, all this is prohibited under the documents, the UN Charter ... but in practice, everyone does not care.

[Alexandr bogun]

Who cares about borders in the 21st century?

As far as I know, borders do not concern exclusively ISIS or those who have Schengen.

and the Kurds, as far as I know, there is no official UN embargo on the sale of weapons, so you can at least officially put it, at least not ... the result will be the same: spoiled relations with Turkey, but Turkey itself does not seem to care much about relations with Russia, since it supplies weapons to Ukraine, and which will be used against the republics

Yes, they lay down on "Republics", you understand that how exactly "Republics" or "Unrecognized states" are considered only by us! For the Turks, this is the Territory of Ukraine on which the database runs, and they can make money on it, without violating the laws on official contracts and that's it. The Turks do not see the world through our prism, they buy weapons worth billions of dollars from us and we sell them, it is profitable for everyone. Through them goes the "Southern Branch" of our gas pipeline and it is beneficial for us, because the "Nord Stream" is standing, we do not want to drive through Ukraine, and also because of the Bayraktar, who, as it were, are not used against us to sacrifice all this? And I also forgot about the nuclear power plant that we are building, there is also a project over 10 billion dollars. What are the "Republics" here? If we really needed them, then in 8 years we could officially recognize their independence a hundred times, and then add it and that's it. And so here we are worried, but here we count money and this is normal, and when others do the same, we do not like it. Let's not lie to ourselves, but understand that we ourselves are playing it.

the world has changed long ago and the rules too, take Syria ... on what basis are the US military bases there? On what basis did Turkey seize part of the territory of Syria? And after all, all this is prohibited under the documents, the UN Charter ... but in practice, everyone does not care.

This is a bit different, I have already seen similar examples, but I will remind you that the Americans, Turks and Iran are like all the fighters against ISIS, when Damascus and its surroundings remained from Syria (before our arrival), and due to the fact that ISIS is not only in Syria, as well as Iraq, acted on a large scale, and Syria did not control 90% of its territory, then, as it were, such a situation. With Ukraine, the situation is the opposite, they control 93% of their territory and what we call "Republics", in this situation they interpret them as ISIS, not just religious, but ethnic. And we stand on the side of this ethnic, armed "illegal group" if you look at it legally. And the fact that now, apart from sanctions, there are no polls against us for this, it does not mean that it will not happen later. Rather, it will definitely be in a hurry to spit on all the documents, on the UN and international law, I would not be in a hurry.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

Yes, lay them down on "Republics", you understand that how exactly "Republics" or "Unrecognized states" are considered only by us!

Yes, it is clear that Turkey is frankly all the same about the unrecognized republics of Donbass, but they must take into account the interests of Russia and the fact that such a step could lead to serious problems in relations with Russia, for example, UAVs could have been delivered to Ukraine by Israel and China, and it is quite legal , but they did not do this ... because they know that such a step will lead to the destabilization of the region and may ruin relations with the Russian Federation, but the Turks did it ... and they cannot but understand this, because Erdogan is a very experienced politician and he understands everything perfectly, he throws firewood into the fire in order to make a profit (financial reputation, etc.) and weaken the position of the Russian Federation ...

Regarding the Kurds, for example, I do not see any problems to supply them with weapons, even if they do not have their own state ... but there are loopholes that can be legitimately used, like the United States, for example: to transfer weapons to fight terrorists and no one will say anything, you can through to transport private traders, etc. it is not so much a matter of legality but of political will, there will be a decision at the very top - they will put anything, but ours do not take such a step ... because of relations with Turkey and the current course of the Kremlin towards the BV.

Now in the republics of Donbass, and their need for us ... it is worth recalling one factor - which changes the whole picture, this is the distribution of Russian passports to citizens of these republics, i.e. they became our citizens, which means that the state has undertaken obligations that it is simply obliged to fulfill .... and if they are threatened with physical destruction and there is such a danger, then we cannot dismiss it or simply close our eyes. And it is absolutely not important whose territory of Donbass is now and the legality of such actions .... there a) Russians as an ethnic group b) Citizens of the Russian Federation and our task is to ensure their safety and respect for their legal rights.

[Alexandr bogun]

Yes, it is clear that Turkey is frankly all the same about the unrecognized republics of Donbass, but they must take into account the interests of Russia and the fact that such a step could lead to serious problems in relations with Russia, for example, UAVs could have been delivered to Ukraine by Israel and China, and it is quite legal , but they did not do this ... because they know that such a step will lead to the destabilization of the region and may ruin relations with the Russian Federation, but the Turks did it ... and they cannot but understand this, because Erdogan is a very experienced politician and he understands everything perfectly, he throws firewood into the fire in order to make a profit (financial reputation, etc.) and weaken the position of the Russian Federation ...

I don't even know what to argue with, I agree. But you need to understand that if Israel does not sell its UAVs to Ukraine for its own reasons and for it the possible costs are unacceptable, then for the Turks it means they are acceptable and vice versa for the PR of their new weapons, to demonstrate how our tanks are burning Turkish UAVs is excellent PR and judging by the number of contracts and At what pace they are doing, the rate is correct. Here, in terms of the benefits in terms of the growth of his technologies and entry into the arms markets, Erdogan did not lose if even Poland, one of the main US allies in Europe, buys not American, but Turkish UAVs, then it’s silly to argue about the success of his UAV's PR.

Regarding the Kurds, for example, I do not see any problems to supply them with weapons, even if they do not have their own state ... but there are loopholes that can be legitimately used, like the United States, for example: to transfer weapons to fight terrorists and no one will say anything, you can through to transport private traders, etc. it is not so much a matter of legality but of political will, there will be a decision at the very top - they will put anything, but ours do not take such a step ... because of relations with Turkey and the current course of the Kremlin towards the BV.

I also agree in principle, but you need to understand that the United States does not supply weapons directly to the Kurds, but to the Iraqi army, and from there, arms are transferred to its Kurds legally residing in Iraq. It's as if China sold or transferred to us 1000 BMPs, and then the Russian Federation transferred 20 of these BMPs to a specific military unit, located, say, in Dagestan. De facto, it turns out as you say, but legally, as I described to you, the weapons come from the Iraqi government, which got it from the United States. We have no access to the same Syria so that they would transfer this kind of weapons to their Kurds, since they are fighting against the government Army not much less than with the Turks. And if we are talking about MANPADS, then this is a completely different conversation, this kind of US weapons did not transfer not only to the Iraqi Kurds, but even to the Afghan government army, which was directly controlled and supplied by the US government. You need to understand what can through a PMC and we can say the PKK to deliver MANPADS and how to say that we have nothing to do with it, but Erdogan then also has a lot of opportunities for us to shit even more, to conclude the same kind of agreement with Kiev as we have with Assad. And then everything that the Turks (NATO countries) have will completely legally drive through the LPNR and we will not be able to do much, because to send troops into the LPR and fight the Turks legally located there, it is not so much to attack Ukraine as NATO. You see, there is no need to act so clumsy here, we can supply weapons anywhere, but you need to understand what to supply and the consequences ...

Now in the republics of Donbass, and their need for us ... it is worth recalling one factor - which changes the whole picture, this is the distribution of Russian passports to citizens of these republics, i.e. they became our citizens, which means that the state has undertaken obligations that it is simply obliged to fulfill .... and if they are threatened with physical destruction and there is such a danger, then we cannot dismiss it or simply close our eyes. And it is absolutely not important whose territory of Donbass is now and the legality of such actions .... there a) Russians as an ethnic group b) Citizens of the Russian Federation and our task is to ensure their safety and respect for their legal rights.

I agree with you on the moral aspect, but again there are problems with the legal one. As far as I read, Ukraine does not recognize a second citizenship, which means that all people living in Ukraine and have a passport of Ukraine, no matter how many more passports they have, they are all considered illegal on the territory of Ukraine and such people are responsible exactly as citizens of Ukraine ... To be a citizen of Russia in Ukraine, this requires an official refusal or notifying in writing the embassy of Ukraine, no matter in which country. Now let's go further, this means that all people who walk in Donbass with not only ours, but with the passport of Ukraine, are considered by international law to be citizens of Ukraine and no jurisdiction of Russia extends to them while they are on the territory of Ukraine. And we officially declare, like the whole world, that Donbass is Ukraine. You see what an incident happens ... if we spit on everything described above and start talking at the UN about the fact that our citizens are there, these are Republics, etc. Sharavarniki will immediately put down their Constitution, point out the point about dual citizenship (which they do not recognize), and from their registers they will show that these people were Citizens of Ukraine until 2016-2021 and illegally, without observing internationally recognized procedures, entered into the Citizenship of another state (Russia ), which itself, not observing the international rules for issuing citizenship signed by it, issued it and then, proceeding from the "illegal actions" of these Citizens of Ukraine on the territory of "Donbass", invaded the territory of a sovereign state that did not conduct any aggressive actions against the territory of Russia. We will not legally have a single reason in our direction that would give us the right to send troops, Kiev will have all the trump cards. They will immediately tell us: "they would like to protect, evacuate or through the UN raised the question about the Peacekeeping contingent, and even if there are no Russians in it, then what's the difference to you, for that there will be whole (Citizens of Russia) who, in fact, are legally Citizens of Ukraine still on it territory) ". And that's all, you know, I'm not an international lawyer, but an acting lawyer. Even I understand, with my presence and understanding of the algorithms of law, that all these

a) Russians as an ethnic group b) Citizens of the Russian Federation and our task is to ensure their safety and respect for their legal rights.

this is good, but on TV and in disputes in the kitchen, and as soon as you have to do it, then you have to go, then this is tens of billions of dollars in claims, even more under new sanctions, colossal diplomatic and reputational losses. And do not forget, our citizens are not only in Ukraine, after that, persecution of them will begin, first of all, by our Allies in the CSTO and the Customs Union, the same Kazakhs, Tajiks, Armenians and others will by all means squeeze out the citizens of Russia and simply ethnic Russians, and everything to protect yourself from such a situation. This will not be a victory in the end for Russia, or even a shot in the leg, but in the head. It is most profitable for Ukraine that Russia would send its troops directly and, as a result, take full responsibility for what is happening, and Ukraine will receive an endless source of income for the coming decades from lawsuits and justification of investing money in its security with NATO, and, as a result, its inclusion. And this is not only me saying, this is our government confirms with their actions, not words. That is why it does not recognize the Republic and their independence, that is why it does not include them in Russia, and that is why it does not directly introduce troops. They understand everything that I described, and because everything is as it is, there are words and promises that "we will protect, there are our citizens", etc. But there are no real actions and will not be, not in the current economic and international situation, when we have problems over the roof even without the introduction of troops.

[eckons]

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

Well, if the authorities of Syria and Iraq are so stupid

They are not stupid, but the one who asks such questions. And for them, Turkey is now a greater danger than the Kurds. And you don't need to poke me. I will not find out who shot down the Boeing. But what you are is already clear.

[Alexandr bogun]

Where did you get the information that for Iraq the Turks, who did not seize a single meter of land for them worse than the Kurds who themselves seized part of the territory by military means, announced autonomy there without the consent of the Iraqi authorities, and are trying to conduct politics as an independent state in general, and when they try to restore at least some kind of control and are still at war with the Iraqi army? The Turks are worse for them with their diplomatic statements, right?)))

I will not find out who shot down the Boeing. But what you are is already clear.

and what do you understand, then that I am just a straightforward and not a hypocritical person, what I call white white, and black black? I would immediately admit, pay compensation and at least close the reputational issue, such precedents happened and it is better to admit a mistake with honor than to look so stupid and disgrace. For me, the honor and reputation of my country is not an empty space, but if for you such concepts are air, then ok, live like this, your choice.

[eckons]

Quote: Rusticolus

And if it was you who sold this ax to this second neighbor, then how?
Well, here's a neighbor caught buy and sell.

If only, if only. Yes, mushrooms grew in my mouth. Here specifically the neighbor decided to pick you up and cut down the dough. Point.

[eckons]

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

And what about the BUK in the 14th place?
Listen, it’s one thing to argue about “we’re not there” with the sharavrniks, to deny an already understood incident in 2021, this is no longer about patriotism, but about the ability to compare 2 + 2. With so many photos, views and documentary evidence, argue now?

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

Very clever, are you by any chance a Ukrainian counterintelligence officer from the GUR?

The person who accused the Donetsk people of shooting down MH17 called someone a Ukrainian shpien. Are you completely imbecile?

[Alexandr bogun]

The person who accused the Donetsk people of shooting down MH17 called someone a Ukrainian shpien. Are you completely imbecile?

no, you idiot, I didn't say a word about the Donetsk people and didn't blame them, it's you, dear, who are trying to load our joint on their necks)

[ja-ja-vw]

Quote: author

It should be added that during the TELEPHONE conversation, the issue was also raised

And in the photo in the article they are sitting opposite each other
Teleportation?

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: ja-ja-vw

And in the photo in the article they are sitting opposite each other

You should not be guided by the photos attached to the articles on VO. Everyone here has known this for a long time.

[Flyer_64]

after the sale of the Bayraktar drones, they already de jure cease to be Turkish, “becoming Ukrainian”

But what about the warranty service ?? Until the warranty runs out, this product is still Turkish.

[Rusticolus]

More can be added. Do the Turks have a guarantee that the bayraktar are not controlled by persons who are members of the list below recognized as prohibited terrorist and extremist organizations in Russia? Unlikely. Considering that in Ukraine, a part of the very top of power is in these organizations. Turkey's investigator sells weapons to recognized extremists and terrorists. And if they do it officially, then just as officially they can be considered accomplices.

[eckons]

It is clear that the ownership of the sale passes to the buyer. But property rights are not discussed here, there is no need to powder your brains. And the Turks knew why bloomers buy drones. And therefore they had an intention to screw up on us. Therefore, our claims are legitimate.

[nznz]

agree with the opinion

[VyacheSeymour]

It is clear that the ownership of the sale passes to the buyer. But property rights are not discussed here, there is no need to powder your brains. And the Turks knew why bloomers buy drones. And therefore they had an intention to screw up on us. Therefore, our claims are legitimate.

Sale of arms to Armenia and Azerbaijan,
Pakistan, China and India will you qualify as maintaining parity?
And Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, and Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, and Iran and Azerbaijan, and Iran and Iraq, and Turkey and Greece ........ - maintaining parity ????

[nznz]

The Turks cheated. Obviously, if relations between Turkey and Russia are considered to be zero types, they are unfamiliar and that's it, then such an explanation will work. But if there is a relationship in which the Russian Federation takes a significant share of the benefit, such an answer just sounds mocking. What solution can be? yes, simple. There was no need to quarrel with the Kurds, but now we need to give them any and more weapons. etc. and answer with a smile, it is now Kurdish.

[eckons]

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

Where did you get the information that for Iraq the Turks, who have not seized a single meter of land from them?

You are not in the subject, but undertake to reason. Since 1996, the Turks have been occupying part of Iraq.

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

what do you understand

It is clear that you are a common troll. Perhaps homebrew. But we have enough of our own sharovarniki.

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

For me, the honor and reputation of my country is not an empty space

Well, yes, accusing his country of a crime. If she's yours, of course. what I'm not sure about. In my opinion this is schizophrenia.

[eckons]

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

I didn’t say a word about the Donetsk people and didn’t blame them, it’s you dear who are trying to load our joint on their necks)

Oh how. Yes, you really went cuckoo, sick one.

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

And in general, with such cases, I want to believe that we have already been taught after 2014, to just anyone to give BUKs or other MANPADS without control

And in my opinion here you have clearly expressed. that the beeches were given. Or did you mean the Ukrainians?

[Boxer]

Quote: Vlad1

Nothing personal, this is business !!! When the Armenians of Russia were saying you are our ally why are you selling weapons to a country with whom we do not have a peace treaty and we could suffer from this weapon at any moment !! Russia said this business will not sell, we will sell someone else .. so what is the difference between the fact that Russia sold weapons to Azerbaijanis and Turks to Ukrainians ?? the difference is that the first case is against the allies being sold !!!

Just to groan according to your old habit. Again, this is your demagoguery. Any state has the right to sell weapons to whoever you want (if there are no official sanctions), because there is always someone who will occupy this niche, for a holy place is never empty. And also because there is such a factor as the military-political influence carried out, incl. and through the sale of weapons, after-sales service and the sale of spare parts and ammunition. There is a large selection of weapons on the market and there are enough weapon sellers, i.e. there are alternative solutions. Of the well-known export Russian weapons sold to many countries, incl. and for Azerbaijan, for example, the S 300 air defense systems, the Msta-S self-propelled howitzers, armored vehicles, and helicopters. What is the situation on the arms market? Azerbaijan also purchased the Israeli air defense / missile defense system Barak 8, South African MRAPs Matador and Marauder with increased mine protection, which proved themselves well in the Karabakh war. Many countries sell combat helicopters, especially since the role of any attack helicopters (against an enemy with normal air defense and the latest MANPADS) in modern warfare has decreased due to their vulnerability.
It became (or will be) easier for the Armenians if Azerbaijan, for example, would have exclusively Israeli air defense systems (instead of the C 300 and Belarusian Buks), South African or Turkish armored vehicles (instead of the BTR 82a), Czech-Israeli self-propelled guns vz. 77 Dana, Czech 122 -mm (MLRS) RM-70, Turkish MLRS Kasyrgi, Israeli LARs instead of Russian counterparts?
This is for the Armenians, like a grumpy wife, an extra reason to whine and reprimand, maybe it will be credited to them from a partner with some kind of bun, naturally free)

[nikolas 83]

They promise the transfer of another 24 UAVs in 404. Even if you put the shell and beeches in the LPNR, then these UAVs will overload the air defense. Here is another option. You can act in a Jewish way, strike with cruise missiles at hangars from UAVs on the territory of 404

[Tagan]

Quote: Knight Templar

Turkey is not afraid because it knows that it is beneficial for Russia as a partner.

Turkey also knows that it depends on Russia much more than Russia depends on it. At the moment of "disagreement" with us, the Turks were very sorry, because suffered significant financial losses (and not only). Therefore, the Turks are not that they are not afraid, but they are trying to crap on the sly, looking around at the same time so as not to fly in. The fact that Edik bravo broadcasts to the internal audience does not mean much.

[Tagan]

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

I will not find out who shot down the Boeing. But what you are is already clear.

and what do you understand, then that I am just a straightforward and not a hypocritical person, what I call white white, and black black? I would immediately admit, pay compensation and at least close the reputational issue, such precedents happened and it is better to admit a mistake with honor than to look so stupid and disgrace. For me, the honor and reputation of my country is not an empty space, but if for you such concepts are air, then ok, live like this, your choice.

Would you admit and pay? And at whose expense the banquet, I apologize to ask? You just look stupid or even ridiculous. So do not disgrace yourself.
And do not pretend to be a mother who is acutely worried about Russia. Your nonsense looks deceitful and feigned. It seems that a fresh team of still "unfired" ukrotrolls settled on the VO. ))

[Klingon]

Quote: Carat

We have nowhere else to buy tomatoes?

Tomatoes can be grown in the Caucasus too, but until the Russian Federation digs a tunnel under the Bosphorus, it will have to be reckoned with ... and yes, buy tomatoes

[Dikson]

Yes, these conversations to the Turks .. - to one place .. It is the Kremlin that thinks that we are partners for Turkey .. And the Turks think that we are suckers and suckers .. And the worse Russia will be, the stronger Turkey's position in the Black Sea region will be , The Caspian, in the former republics of the USSR, and even in the regions of Russia .. But we, with sheep's tenacity, will still ingratiatingly climb to the Turks as friends ..

[Alexander Zima]

This is a game of cat and mouse ... now the Syrian army will advance its positions in Idlib somewhere ... well, since this is their territory.

[VyacheSeymour]

.. now the Syrian army will advance its positions in Idlib somewhere .. well, since this is their territory.

And why not move the position somewhere in the areas controlled by the Amerokurds? ... - after all, this is Syrian territory, and the only reserves of Syrian oil are also there ????

[megadeth]

A sanctions against Turkey can not be introduced ??? It is enough for our maddened tourists not to let go for a year or so on the warm side of the Black Sea and the Sultan will be demolished ... there is no question of tomatoes ... IMHO ...

[Vladimir Androsov]

And if we sell multiple launch rocket systems to the Kurds, will they become Kurdish?

[Most kind]

With this approach, the Kurds may have contests and many other ATGMs, Erdogan is playing with fire, he may not be able to take them out.

[Fisherman]

Putin just publicly recorded the use of shock UAVs against peaceful targets ... for the future ... This Casus Bailey ... will come in handy when the Anglo-Saxons start howling after the defeat of the APU.

[iouris]

Erdogan answered evasively ...