Upcoming merger of UAC, Sukhoi and MiG companies announced in Russia

By decision of the UAC management, three large aircraft building companies are merged in Russia. The details of the reorganization through the merger of two large companies will be discussed at the general shareholders meeting in January next year.

This was reported on the official website of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC).

The upcoming merger of UAC, Sukhoi and RSK MiG has been announced.

It is noted that the process of centralizing the management of the three companies has already begun. The governing powers of Sukhoi were transferred to RSK MiG, which in turn gave the management rights to the United Aircraft Corporation.

The head of the UAC Yuri Slyusar called the upcoming merger an important event for the national aviation... He noted that such a reorganization would give a powerful impetus to the Russian aircraft industry.

At the same time, it is planned to reduce management levels, which should have a positive effect on the organizational structure of the industry and will reduce production costs.

In the spring of this year, personnel changes took place in the UAC leadership. Anatoly Serdyukov, who headed the board of directors of the corporation before that, was replaced by the head of the State Corporation Rostec Sergei Chemezov.

In Russia, experts have different attitudes towards such a merger. Among other things, the opinion is expressed that this can lead to problems due to the lack of competition between various design bureaus and design schools as such.

Comments

[svp67]

I'm not happy about this ... even the ghostly probability of some kind of competition disappears from us, and this is bad

[Artyom Karagodin]

Yes, while Slyusar's optimism seems premature. We will, of course, see what happens in the end. Well, suddenly there really, for once, have thought of everything, and our fears will not be confirmed. But so far only the word "optimization" comes to mind. And it is as you want, but does not cause positive emotions. Considering all the previous experience of such "effective solutions".

[Runoway]

In addition to this "pleasant" news

On November 3, UAC put up for sale the territory of the former plant of JSC RSK MiG in the north of Moscow near the Dynamo metro station. Three land plots with a total area of ​​57,7 hectares and 134 real estate objects were put up for sale for 35 billion rubles.

Information about the auction is published on the website of RT-Capital, which sells non-core assets of Rostec. The UAC representative confirmed that the plant's property will be sold as part of the corporation's financial recovery program launched by the Russian government. The starting price of the lot is 35,5 billion rubles

"Financial recovery" is a veiled word, the question of whom

[Civil]

I thought for a long time everything was united under one person.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Runoway

"Financial recovery" is a veiled word, the question of whom

This is the same thing that happened with medicine. And what did you get in the end?

[Starover_Z]

Quote: tihonmarine

Quote: Runoway

"Financial recovery" is a veiled word, the question of whom

This is the same thing that happened with medicine. And what did you get in the end?

Now this phenomenon is called OPTIMIZATION ....
Alas, not the best definition.

[SKVichyakow]

Quote: Runoway

In addition to this "pleasant" news

On November 3, UAC put up for sale the territory of the former plant of JSC RSK MiG in the north of Moscow near the Dynamo metro station. Three land plots with a total area of ​​57,7 hectares and 134 real estate objects were put up for sale for 35 billion rubles.

Information about the auction is published on the website of RT-Capital, which sells non-core assets of Rostec. The UAC representative confirmed that the plant's property will be sold as part of the corporation's financial recovery program launched by the Russian government. The starting price of the lot is 35,5 billion rubles

"Financial recovery" is a veiled word, the question of whom

THIS is the main essence and purpose of this merger, the liberation of the expensive land. Everything is as it was before. Where, as a result of such optimization in the country, has it become better in any way?

[Cb master]

It's not a problem to do it without merging, especially since it has already been done. A merger is just being planned. Don't look for Afro-Africans in a lighted room

[Stepan S]

Let's take a sober view - our country cannot economically support two design bureaus, directions in aircraft construction. MIG has no orders, no slaves, no money. And there are also several lines of civil aircraft, where even more money is needed.

[volodimer]

Well, let's imagine that after the Second World War, we have only one KB left. The bombers are definitely Tupolev, hence the Il-28 is in the red. Ilyushin would have been left with a niche for attack aircraft.
Fighters ... At that time, the most successful are Yakovlevskoe and Lavochkinskoe, but Mikoyanovskiys, which will become the main ones for a long time, this design bureau would have been eliminated. His MiG-3 ceased to be produced in 1942, but this one, though high-altitude and in air defense, worked until the end of the war.
We would not even remember about the Sukhoi Design Bureau now. His only brainchild, the Su-2, was also discontinued in 1942. Well, what would we get with such a policy?

[keeper03]

And what can our country do ?! Brought the country to the handle, the optimizers are bad !!!

[tovarich-andrey.62goncharov]

He may not throw himself on the wall in hysterics, wringing his hands and sprinkling ashes on some places, but analyze and do. No matter what ... To do and live! Isn't that enough?

[YOUR]

So all aviation design bureaus were united a year ago, as always, with the aim of optimization.

[ioan-e]

Quote: svp67

I'm not happy about this ... even the ghostly probability of some kind of competition disappears from us, and this is bad

They ripped off the tongue! Competition is destroyed in the bud! But even this is not scary, because different design bureaus are completely different design schools, take at least the difference between the Su-47 and MFI 1.44, and what will happen now is completely incomprehensible!

[loki565]

What is the competition from MIG now? large rem base and no more. Now they can participate in the creation of the Su75

[Rubi0]

Different design bureaus are 2 streams of money for design work. Investors do not line up for a Moment like F35 in which a couple of dozen countries have invested.

[Thrifty]

What are the three companies ??? Sukhoi simply absorbs the MiG-EVERYTHING !!!!

[Cron]

I'm not happy about this ... even the ghostly probability of some kind of competition disappears from us, and this is bad

What other competition? Where is the competition between them? This is when the MiG is on its last legs? What already have to write: well, you buy Migi 35s, well, help the guys. Is it competition?
What prevents you from competing in the global market? They are not a conventional Boeing. The project for the 5th generation did not go, so it doesn’t matter, we still have a lot of things. For a moment, it cannot be like that, it will bend.
Under the Iron Curtain, there was a certain logic in this.

Take the same Mi-28 and Ka-52 helicopters. Where is the competition? The weak must make way. We have both machines adopted, creating a zoo. There would be some fundamental difference between them, then yes, and so a certain lobby is bending its line.

[K-36]

Uv. Cron, I call you, you are an active specialist in the field of aircraft construction?
Ku, to declare this: "Take the same Mi-28 and Ka-52 helicopters. Where is the competition? The weak must make way. We have both machines adopted, creating a zoo "Is it okay that the Kamov and Mil helicopters are fundamentally different machines? And why do all surface ships of the Navy, which have a landing helicopter deck, prefer the coaxial Kamov machines and completely reject the Milevskys? So which of these design bureaus do you propose to close for the sake of another ??"

[Cron]

Quote: K-36

Uv. Cron, I call you, you are an active specialist in the field of aircraft construction?

No

Is it okay that Kamov's and Mil's helicopters are fundamentally different machines?

Come on? And what is the fundamental difference between the Ka-52 and the Mi-28? That both cars are already bleeding from the nose?

And why do all surface ships of the Navy, which have a landing helicopter deck, prefer the coaxial Kamov machines and completely reject the Milevskys?

I do not know. Apparently easier to manage. Tell me what is really there.

So which of these design bureaus do you propose to close for the sake of another ??

I look in the book, I see a fig. Where did I write that you need to close some KB? Mil already has a large number of orders.
I only said that one of these projects, the Ka-52, or the Mi-28, should not have been put into service. Well, this is logical. The Americans did not accept either the Lockheed project or the Boeing 5th generation aircraft project. Only one won. And what is the competition with us then? Is it that each design bureau will present its own project and each project will definitely go to the troops? Is this the same mythical competition? When does everyone receive orders anyway?

[K-36]

I look in the book, I see a fig. Where did I write that you need to close some KB? Mil already has a large number of orders.
I only said that one of these projects Ka-52, or Mi-28 should not have been adopted... Well, this is logical.
Can you tell me how many different types of helicopters there are in the US Army (which you so obsequiously refer to as)? Huh?
And did you know that the Navy is planning the Ka-52 and not the Mi-28 for our new helicopter carriers under construction in Kerch? And why exactly so, and not otherwise ??
Sorry for the somewhat tactless question: Did you serve in the army? And what is your knowledge base to make such categorical presentations to the ordering Directorate of the Ministry of Defense?
Well, the fact that you are not a specialist in aircraft engineering, I already understood from your very first comment.

[Cron]

Quote: K-36

Can you tell me how many different types of helicopters there are in the US Army (which you so obsequiously refer to as)? Huh?

And what have the different types? You are again being carried in the wrong direction. But do I urge you to abandon the conventional MI-17, or Mi-35, or Ka-27?
I took two helicopters of the same type. Ka-52 and Mi-28. What is their diversity?
In the United States, the main combat helicopter is the Apache. If you are interested

And did you know that the Navy is planning the Ka-52 and not the Mi-28 for our new helicopter carriers under construction in Kerch? And why exactly so, and not otherwise ??

Well, most likely, because for the helicopter carriers Kamov made a special modification - Katran. And since the Ka-52 is smaller, so everything is logical.
And I only want the Ka-52 to become the main combat helicopter. I like him more. Moreover, they put him on the helicopter carriers.
Well, what is the fundamental difference between these machines. That the army will not do without the conditional Mi-28? What is it?

Sorry for the somewhat tactless question: Did you serve in the army? And what is your knowledge base to make such categorical presentations to the ordering Directorate of the Ministry of Defense?
Well, the fact that you are not a specialist in aircraft engineering, I already understood from your very first comment.

What's the difference to you? So many letters and nothing worthwhile written. Well, since you are special and wrote, where and in what I am wrong. Briefly and clearly. But no, it began - he served, did not serve, a specialist, not a specialist. No, not a specialist. And somehow I didn’t notice that only one specialists spoke on the forum. If you have something to say, say so, and do not show off.

My personal opinion is that Mil's lobby pushed its Mi-28 project into the troops. That's all.

[Stepan S]

My personal opinion is that Mil's lobby pushed its Mi-28 project into the troops. That's all.

Much has been written about this at the time when the helicopter was put into service. So this is highly true.

[Osipov9391]

I am not a supporter of the Mi-28. The Ka-52 has dual controls and a rescue system.
The Mi-28 has none of this, and if the pilot is wounded, the gunner will have to leave the car with a parachute, although the chances of his rescue are not great.
It seems like the Mi-28UB has double control.

[Saints]

Why not leave only the Ka-52 then? An excellent helicopter that is not inferior to the Mi-28 and is capable of naval operations. I want to understand for myself why do we need shock miles? In response to your question, not for me, in the USA only "Apache" if memory serves.

[bayard]

Quote: Svetoch

Why not leave only the Ka-52 then? An excellent helicopter that is not inferior to the Mi-28 and is capable of naval operations.

Here, of course, the Mil lobby, they have competition since their very appearance (both design bureaus began as design co-operatives in the same premises of a former furniture factory. Conditionally then they divided the spheres of influence / application - Mi go to the Air Force and the Ground Forces, Ka - to the Fleet, where they themselves better recommended.
Both helicopters appeared at the very end of the 80s in the form of prototypes for the attack helicopter competition, both performed well, but the Ka-50 was much better ... everyone. But he was single. Small pre-production batches were released for further comparative tests and ... the Union collapsed.
And when they began to typeset the rearmament program, the question of choice arose again. KB Mil felt much more confident both financially and in terms of the lobby. But the Kamovites made a two-seater Ka-52, which was noticeably better ... but also more expensive. Therefore, after scratching his turnips and having in mind the Mil lobby, we decided to adopt both helicopters - so that they would not offend Mil Design Bureau and not lose the best helicopter. And they decided to buy in approximately equal shares.
Another advantage of the Mi-28 was the fact that at the same time Iraq was buying the Mi-35 from us, and when he saw the Mi-28, he wanted it too. How do you send a combat helicopter, which is in demand for export, to scrap?
There is one more aspect in favor of choosing the Mi-28 for the ground forces - this is the piloting technique. Army aviation pilots, as a rule, are not familiar with the technique of piloting coaxial aircraft, and when asked "Which machine is better to choose" they answer intuitively "Only Mi-28" - it will be easier to learn. This is already from personal communication experience from the 90s - early 00s. It was very surprising then, "Yes, the Ka-50 \ 52 is much better, both in terms of flight characteristics, and in terms of security, and it takes more load, the linear dimensions are smaller - it is more difficult to hit ...". No, they say, the Mi-28 is more familiar and understandable to us in the development, piloting technique and maintenance. And this also mattered when choosing.
Now the situation is changing, the Ka-52 is in the army, and this is the main thing - it proves its usefulness and advantages in practice. But all the same it remains more expensive and more technically complex, a helicopter.

[Osipov9391]

The Ka-50 was significantly unified in equipment with the Su-39 attack aircraft.
Their sighting complex was the same and a number of other systems.
And this simplified production.
But there was no PDF on the Ka-50. There was only SLO (laser irradiation system).

[bayard]

The single-seat cockpit was alarming - the pilot would have to maneuver (often at low / extremely low altitude), dodge ground-based fire, hit targets and ... monitor the instruments ... Such a high degree of automation and the stake on it in the single-seat version ... did not give confidence in the successful development of the machine by combat pilots. Therefore, even then there was a request for a two-seater version.
The first such version was a prototype created for a Turkish tender, there was a tandem cockpit ... But the KA-52 version made it possible, by expanding the cockpit, to install a radar in the nose cone ... and it turned out what we needed.

Quote: Osipov9391

The Ka-50 was significantly unified in equipment with the Su-39 attack aircraft.

Are you still sad about the Su-39?

[Osipov9391]

So the Mi-28 is essentially single. The operator-gunner sitting in front does not seem to have any controls. And there is no rescue system like the Ka-50/52.
Thus, if the Mi-28 pilot is wounded and cannot drive, the shooter will have to parachute out on his own, leaving the pilot to die.
There is no such leprosy on the Ka-52. Both can manage.

[bayard]

Quote: Osipov9391

The operator-gunner sitting in front does not seem to have any controls.

The last modification seems to have duplicate controls. The cockpit of the Mi-28 combat trainer was taken as a basis.
But the Ka-52 is undoubtedly better at everything, and it is not surprising that there are already several more of them in the troops than the Mi-28. But since KB Mil plans to actively offer its Mi-28s for export, they will also be put into service.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Excuse me, how do you see the MO competition for the creation of a promising fighter? Let's go to Su, Boeing and BAE, so what?
In general, external competition will not help our videoconferencing

[Cron]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Excuse me, how do you see the MO competition for the creation of a promising fighter? Let's go to Su, Boeing and BAE, so what?

So, perhaps in your fantasies.

In general, external competition will not help our videoconferencing

What does the MO competition have to do with it? I wrote that you need to compete in international markets

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

[quote = Cron] What does the MO competition have to do with it? [quote]
Given what you wrote here
[quote = Cron] There was a certain logic behind this during the Iron Curtain. [/ quote]
[quote = Cron] The weak must make way. [/ quote]
And to this I asked you a direct question about the MO competition. The answer to my question will be?

[Cron]

And to this I asked you a direct question about the MO competition. The answer to my question will be?

Which question? I did not write about the MO competition. I wrote that it is possible to compete with other aircraft in international markets as well. There is much to strive for.
In this state, Mig is never a competitor to Sukhoi. There is no competition between them for a long time. So I think the unification will be beneficial. Either it was necessary to breathe life into the Mig somehow. Who prevented them from developing a single-engine aircraft? Could have found their niche

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Cron

Which question? I did not write about the MO competition. I wrote that it is possible to compete with other aircraft in international markets as well. There is much to strive for.

Clear.
I report: a modern combat aircraft is a daunting and extremely expensive machine to develop, the creation process of which has been going on for two decades. The costs of its creation are so colossal that they completely exclude the possibility of development by the forces of a commercial structure, without the participation of the state.
Accordingly, a completely different business model works for modern aircraft. The company develops an aircraft for the needs of the state, that is, for its own Ministry of Defense, and then, due to the fact that its development costs have already been paid by the state, sells them to other countries. Exceptions are when an export plane is either a couple of generations inferior to modern ones, or if it is just an export version.
That is, without a state defense order, there will be no external competition - it is economically inexpedient. And without internal competition, the design bureau, instead of developing an advanced aircraft, blinds whatever it is, and proposes it to the Ministry of Defense, because there is nothing else anyway. And that the craft will not enter the world market - well, in 20 years all the tops will already retire, they will not care about it

[Cron]

Basically I agree, but

And without internal competition, the design bureau, instead of developing an advanced aircraft, blinds whatever it is, and proposes it to the Ministry of Defense, because there is nothing else anyway.

What is the internal competition between Mig and Sukhoi? What is this? Did Light Migs compete with heavy Dryers? Seriously?
When creating the Su-57, how did the Mig compete with this project? How? It turns out that Sukhoi blinded anything?
All that Mig is now is - well, let's help the guys and put new Mig in our army. Of course, the MiG-35 may be a very good aircraft and necessary, but how does it compete with heavy Sushki?
The Americans understand everything. Here are our wishes for you, funding and Boeing and Lockheed are fighting for a contract. Where do we have something similar?
And how, for me, they are also doubtful. It also has its own lobby. How this helps them is not clear to me. Apparently it is purely a formality to comply with the law. And then they take one project, and then it swells to cosmic proportions in terms of finances and a huge number of shortcomings. And how the competition helped here, I do not understand. Since the main heat on the project begins later. If you just choose an approximate concept and that's it

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

They also competed. For the right to make a heavy fighter of the 4th generation, as many as 3 KB were cut - MiG, Yak and Su.
The fact that in the end Mig got a light aircraft only indicated that Su could not be stronger than Mig in two projects at once.

[Cron]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

They also competed. For the right to make a heavy fighter of the 4th generation, as many as 3 KB were cut - MiG, Yak and Su.
The fact that in the end Mig got a light aircraft only indicated that Su could not be stronger than Mig in two projects at once.

I'm talking about the present. What is the competition with Mig at the moment? Sukhoi has occupied a leading position for a long time. Even if both design bureaus were given funding for a certain project, it seems to me that Sukhoi has much more opportunities. They could have given an assignment for single-engine aircraft, but here everything is only on an initiative basis so far.
And Mig represents everything only at the level of small models.
They could, of course, improve the health of Mig by combining them, or somehow, and then again make it a separate design bureau. But it looks like with him, unfortunately, that's all. And the land is already being sold ...
I just thought, why were they not, let's say, merged with Irkut, with the Yakovlev Design Bureau. Drinking civilian planes and whatnot. Maybe then the Ministry of Defense would participate in competitions. And Sukhoi would not have been a monopolist. Or am I talking nonsense?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

And at the present time there is no competition, and this is scary. The Su-57 was created in many ways on the personnel left over from the USSR, with their training, motivation, etc. The system has been working for some time by inertia, but then ... And now we just need to try to restore healthy competition in the industry (maybe in the way you proposed, I’m not ready to answer right away, but I would definitely not thrust it into delirium would). But instead of reviving competition, we see its final elimination, which is not good at all.

[Cron]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

But instead of reviving competition, we see its final elimination, which is not good at all.

Agree

[Badabum]

Quote: svp67

I'm not happy about this ... even the ghostly probability of some kind of competition disappears from us, and this is bad

I agree, it's sad to watch, but the aircraft fleet of Russia is almost entirely made up of Soviet-era machines ...
There is a very big chance that we will start purchasing Chinese aircraft, this will be the end of our aviation developers.

My proposal is this.
We open ten small companies and one large one.
Ten are engaged in design, development, three thousand people for the company, they are sitting on the state salary of 30-50 thousand rubles a month.
If one of the companies does not show itself in any way at the end of the year, all personnel are fired, we are recruiting a new one.
A large company carries out a large-scale production of developments of ten companies, thus we got good competition.
The main thing is that there are fewer managers for three thousand people)

[Ryazan87]

but the aircraft fleet of Russia is almost entirely made up of Soviet-era machines

The basis is new aircraft developed on the basis of Soviet models. There is nothing strange, and there is nothing terrible about it. Fundamentally new things do not appear so often and are implemented slowly.

There is a very big chance that we will start purchasing Chinese aircraft

Created on the basis of the same Soviet aircraft? What for? The 5th generation is at the very least developing our own. And it is necessary to invest more in unmanned aircraft. The future belongs to her.

We open ten small companies and one large one.

in short, we split the already scarce resources into 10 obscure organizations that will not be able to do anything on their own. there is no better way to completely ruin all aircraft construction.

all personnel are leaving, we are recruiting new ones.

That is, for example, you are pulling rabbits out of a cylinder like a design engineer trained in 3-D modeling.

sit on the state salary of 30-50 thousand rubles a month

Design and development in aircraft construction for a salary of 30-40 thousand rubles ?? Are you seriously?
This is the level of the cashier's earnings in the Moscow "Pyaterochka".

a large company carries out a large-scale production of developments of ten companies

those. work with 10 customers at the same time, in which the staff can be completely changed throughout the year. Brilliantly. This is despite the fact that the development cycle is at least several years.
This magnificent ten will at least have a division of labor? Or 3000 people, receiving 30 thousand rubles, will design everything from a glider to avionics?

[Badabum]

Quote: Ryazanets87

in short, we split the already scarce resources into 10 obscure organizations

We don't keep all our eggs in one basket, where ineffective executives make the company go around like a dead horse.

We are talking about ten new companies with new people, I am not suggesting any splitting up of old companies.


//// who will not be able to do anything on their own. there is no better way to completely ruin all aircraft construction and you cannot imagine.

They will be able to independently make several variations for testing, and then they will transfer the production to a large company.
Their main task is development, not production.

//// That is, for example, for a design engineer trained in 3-D modeling, you are like rabbits taking out of a cylinder. ////
This is a beta sketch of my idea, it goes without saying that adjustments are needed according to the situation.
Probably I got excited over the year, maybe three or five, so that I can get comfortable with it.
This is only necessary for the sake of cleaning up unviable companies that receive state funds and do not live up to expectations.


///// Design and development in aircraft construction for a salary of 30-40 thousand rubles ?? Are you seriously?
This is the level of the cashier's earnings in the Moscow "Pyaterochka". ////
You are joking?
And they will not receive income for their developments?
33-50 thousand is purely support, for milk and sausage with bread, the rest they will receive for the sale of goods to the state, 30% from one product.

//// This magnificent ten will at least have a division of labor? Or 3000 people, receiving 30 thousand rubles, will design everything from a glider to avionics? ////

Free division of labor and type of management, some companies can work under one person at the head, others, inside can be divided into several groups of different employment ...

[Ryazan87]

We are talking about ten new companies with new people, I am not suggesting any splitting up of old companies.

The key question is about these new people. Where do you get them, and even in such an amount? After all, you do not need to recruit security guards. At the moment, in the aircraft industry with personnel, everything is far from cloudless. I’m already silent about the design school, about technical managers with experience ... All this has been created for decades!

Their main task is development, not production.

How do you imagine technical development? At least we will conduct testing? Maybe we can even build stands? or so, painted - and we go to production, let them check?
So even elementary software is not developed.

This is only for the sake of cleaning up unviable companies,

unfortunately, you are proposing to create obviously unviable companies. In complex technical industries, this approach to development is not possible.

You are joking?
And they will not receive income for their developments?

For the sake of interest, you estimate how long it will take, in the most favorable scenario, to receive this very income from the state. And everyone will come running straight for 30 thousand, wait for millions of state officials (or they will be kicked out in a year).
For that kind of money, you won't find an intelligent installer.

Free division of labor and type of management, some companies can work under one person at the head

Who will fund these free exercises at least initially? Who is responsible? By the way, a bunch of "firms" (for service and repair, for example), have already spawned in the remaining production.
R.S. - I give an idea. Revive and modify the "sharashka". To plant, so as not to be distracted and let them work for food. Have created something sensible - to reward with sour cream. No - to the punishment cell. So there will be competition.

[Badabum]

Quote: Ryazanets87

The key question is about these new people. Where do you get them, and even in such an amount? After all, you do not need to recruit security guards. At the moment, in the aircraft industry with personnel, everything is far from cloudless. I’m already silent about the design school, about technical managers with experience ... All this has been created for decades !.

If the choice is bad, we take who is, the main thing is that there is a relentless striving, this is the foundation, they themselves will learn everything.
If we gather just young people, without experience and knowledge, then we are not creating ten companies of three thousand people, but for example one hundred groups of three hundred people, with the prospect of free announcements with other groups of up to three thousand people.
We start from scratch, give them laboratories, machine tools, teach primitive microcircuits to assemble, and eventually give them access to the developments of Mig and Sukhoi ...

//// How do you imagine technical development? At least we will conduct testing? Maybe we can even build stands? or so, painted - and we go to production, let them check?
So even elementary software is not developed.
All this is the responsibility of ten companies, they build laboratories, test benches, etc.
The developer transfers the finished product to a large company.


//// unfortunately, you are proposing to create obviously unviable companies. In complex technical industries, this approach to development is not possible.
Do you know the contractor company tsmc? They have been working on this principle for many years, no one complains.


///// You estimate for the sake of interest how long it will take in the most favorable scenario before receiving this very income from the state. And everyone will come running straight for 30 thousand, wait for millions of state officials (or they will be kicked out in a year).
For that kind of money, you won't find an intelligent installer. ////
If 50k a month is nothing for Moscow, then for the regions it is good money.


//// Funding for these free exercises, who will carry out at least at the initial stage? Who is responsible? ///
These are not difficult questions.

[Osipov9391]

It is still based on Soviet aircraft. They are almost 100% in Dalny, Military transport, anti-submarine, special aviation.
They are also the backbone of fighter aircraft - as before, the MiG-31 and Su-27.
They are the basis of assault aviation where there is not a single attack aircraft of post-Soviet production.
They are also the basis of hundreds of Su-24 bombers.
And the fact that new is not so important. Only Su-35S, Su-34, Su-30SM are new.
But it will not even be two and a half hundred and in a serious war they will not make the weather.

[Ryazan87]

Well, let's go through:
1. Fighter aircraft
Su-57 - 1 pcs.
Su-35 - 97 pcs.
Su-30 - 111 pcs. + 22 in the aviation of the Navy
Total: 231 pcs.
Su-27 - 115 pcs. (for 2017, now less)
MiG-29 - 118 pcs.
MiG-31 - 90 pcs.
Total: 323 pcs.
Consequently, 41% of fighter aircraft are new Russian aircraft. Well, for the MiG-35, the question is still open.

2. Frontline aviation
Su-34 - 122 pcs.
The niche of manned attack aircraft is occupied by shock UAVs, the same Orion. There is, of course, a lot of work to do here.
Su-24 - 173 pcs.
Su-25 - 194 (together with combat training).
Total: 367
This means that 25% of the front-line aviation are new Russian aircraft.
Combat training aircraft:
Yak-130 - 107 pcs.
L-39 - 124 (and this is not a Soviet aircraft).
There is nothing to count the proportions here.

Transport Aviation:
The IL-76 is still being produced in a modernized version. It is not clear why to make a fundamentally new heavy transport aircraft.
Everything else, except for the An-148 and An-140, is Soviet. The fate of the Il-112 is still dark.

Long-range aviation, yes, all Soviet. Given the lifespan of these ships, this is not surprising. However, the first new Tu-160 is being prepared for takeoff. Let's see.

[Roman1970_1]

And will the designers want to design for 30-50 thousand rubles, and even know that in a year they can be fired.
And if they did not have time a little and they were fired, then the new team starts from scratch or continues someone's project? So it will take more than a year to understand someone else's project.

[vitvit123]

So compete with foreign counterparts .. make ours better than foreign ones and the same happens ..

[spirit]

the likelihood of some kind of competition, but this is bad

Competition is progress and development, no matter what: a person, a company, a state or a microbe. In our country, in all industries, they follow the reverse path of monopolization (and not the smartest and strongest, but by telephone law), the result is a total degradation! Evolution will eventually put everything in its place and alas, most likely we will be the losers

[knn54]

I can't even imagine what the Yankees would have if they decided to unite Boeing and Lockheed.
But they were lucky - they do not have a UAC!
KB im. Ilyushin has already been "finished off" And from "Yakovlev" nothing new.
Apparently the poet Guberman is right - Russia is a wonderful country, but in a terrible state ...

[Fanur Galiev]

For them, these processes are going on, albeit a little differently, but they are also going on.

[Alien From]

You're right! Nothing good will come of this "optimization".

[MikhailRus]

The same as with the combination of Ka and Mi. Just like the academies of Monin and Mozhaisky in Voronezh.

[Incvizitor]

It looks like the MiG will be privatized.

[A.K.]

And it was competition in recent decades, "dry" was in the foreground in everything.

[DO]

An example from basketball. The highest level of American basketball teams, the NBA provides priority support for the WEAKEST teams in the league - for example, by infusing them with new strong players and coaches. The result is obvious.

[pyagomail.com]

Quote: svp67

I'm not happy about this ... even the ghostly probability of some kind of competition disappears from us, and this is bad

I agree with you. If I'm not mistaken, in the 30s of the last century there was already such a combination of all aviation design bureaus into one - nothing good happened.

[km-21]

Quote: svp67

I'm not happy about this ... even the ghostly probability of some kind of competition disappears from us, and this is bad

Let's speculate. Let's assume that there was competition before the merger. And what? .. What is the point in it, if only one fighter and one and a half passenger airliners have actually been developed in 30 years of this "competition"? And if you look at the implementation, the picture becomes even sadder. It turns out that the laws of competition do not work. Other incentives for design activity are needed. For example, the NKVD sharashkas, in which Pobeda planes, space rockets and atomic bombs were developed quickly, cheaply and with sufficient quality.

[Alf]

Quote: km-21

What is the point in it if only one fighter and one and a half passenger airliners have actually been developed in 30 years of this "competition"?

Counter question -And these 30 years did the country need aviation at all? As if the authorities themselves did everything to strangle the domestic aviation industry. And now it continues ...

[Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers]

Quote: svp67

even the ghostly probability of some kind of competition disappears from us, and this is bad

Having lost their head, they don't cry for their hair. Everything is true when open competition in power disappears in a country, the same projection on other aspects of life.

[Filxnumx]

And what kind of competition we had between the developers of heavy and light fighters. Sukhoi and MiG did not compete, but complemented each other. Sukhoi once competed with Tupolev T-4s. If you know examples of competition between Su and MiG (MiG 1.44 is not an example), please let me know, I will be glad to discuss it.

[tihonmarine]

Anatoly Serdyukov, who headed the board of directors of the corporation before that, was replaced by the head of the State Corporation Rostec Sergei Chemezov.

I can’t say if I’m not special in these matters, whether the MIG and SU shine is good or bad, but what "Taburetkin" has been pushed, this is good news. Although "unsinkable and not burning" will find application.

[NDR-791]

Quote: tihonmarine

that "Taburetkin" was moved, that's good news.

If you want to get rid of the interfering one, move it up. The mechanism worked quite so-so under the Union. And then a critical mass of seat-sitters accumulated and ... that's it.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: NDR-791

If you want to get rid of the interfering one, move it up. The mechanism worked quite so-so under the Union.

Now under capitalism, other concepts are "your right person."

[Serge-667]

And not only Avtovaz. He's just a friend of one Volodya. Since pre-perestroika times.

[Aviator_]

Although "unsinkable and not burning" will find application.

It, this unsinkable, is being measured against LII

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Aviator_

It, this unsinkable, is being measured against LII

It can, it "does not burn, does not sink".
And if we say in the words of Frederic Stendhal:
Glory, money, honor - empty ...
Just gotta belong
the ruling clique.

[Aviator_]

I still hope for justice, I deserve it for a long time

[Rushnairfors]

I don’t know how anyone, but personally I feel sorry for the legendary Mikoyan Design Bureau, Sukhoi "eats" him, zadolbali already optimize optimizers

[paul3390]

Ilyich also said that if you don’t understand something, always look for the interests of big business. You can't go wrong. So here too - I'm sure the decision was made exclusively for the next drank of the dough. Even if it's not obvious to us. Otherwise, it simply does not exist in our spiritual state.

[bk316]

Even if it's not obvious to us.

"I do not know how, but for sure for a drink. EVERYTHING IS ALWAYS FOR A DRINK" - This is called paranoia.

[uav80]

What once in a couple of years ...

[GAndr]

I am not an expert, but it seems to me that when there is competition it is better for the business.

[Roma 1977]

Not always. Collaboration sometimes decides when both organizations gain access to each other's technology. Exchange of information while reducing red tape and all that.

[NDR-791]

Quote: Roma-1977

Collaboration sometimes decides when both organizations gain access to each other's technology

Cooperation is somewhat different. And getting technologies from each other does not imply a merger. A merger is always a loss.

[Alf]

Quote: NDR-791

A merger is always a loss.

And 99% of the appearance of an extra superstructure of managers.

[URAL72]

Roma agree. It seems to me that this will give an opportunity to load barely living MiG factories. It would not be a bad idea to launch production of the Su-75 in Lukhovitsy. The plant is practically new, the staff has been trained. A light fighter must be produced in the well-covered Moscow air defense area, as it is, in fact, a vehicle from the mobilization period. It is easier and faster to assemble it than a heavy twin-engine car.

[sledak]

Quote: URAL72

It is easier and faster to assemble it than a heavy twin-engine car.

I agree, only other things being equal (although, of course, a single-engine and more economical and, perhaps, assembly is faster and service, respectively, too) two engine are more reliable, if one fails, you can reach your own on the second, but on a single-engine jump there , where the engine stopped talking, which means the probability of possible losses of the flight personnel is higher, and their training also costs a pretty penny, but not a single m ** s has been thrusting into our sky for a long time, although they adjust to the borders. Of course, the MIG-35 is more expensive due to 2 engines and, probably, in peacetime, it cannot be promoted or sold like a chess that has never taken off before, but it (MIG) is not promoted, but was pushed openly.
Based on the experience of previous "optimizations", I am more than sure that the management superstructure will not be reduced, but the design bureau will die.
It would be better if the KLA were reduced, and the design bureau would not be touched and let them fight for orders from the Ministry of Defense, proving and demonstrating the superiority of their products. And the fact that the two types of fighters, light and heavy, both with two engines, are not at all a zoo.

[Knell wardenheart]

The news is contradictory .. on the one hand, there will be less bureaucracy and funds will be enlarged, costs will decrease, etc. On the other hand, the cars had their own specifics, the competition was quite rational between the companies, as if due to the merger there was no organizational mess and the competitiveness of the products did not fall ..

[Alf]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

on the one hand there will be less bureaucracy

In theory. In fact, another management structure will appear for both firms - the kids have grown up, they need to be attached somewhere.

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

costs will decrease

For production, but not for the white-collar and paper-paper machines. In the budget-22, expenses on medicine were reduced (in the era of C19, medicine, apparently, became unnecessary, everything will be decided by the almighty Vaccine), but the costs of bonuses to officials were increased by 185 billion. Here is a living example of optimization for you.

[Castro Ruiz]

The path to the absence of competition and the collapse of 1 design school.

[Daniil Konovalenko]

Probably they unite according to the principle: aaa ... they still build airplanes, so let them together .. Why do we need different eroplanes ..? Almost Japanese aircraft "Migsu" will be created

[prior]

What MigSu?
Now we will fly on the Locksmiths, by the name of the armwrestler.

[prior]

Comment on the article, not commentators, and you will be happy.
And he made a mistake in his last name deliberately.
Previously, the name of the aircraft and the company was given by the name of the chief designer.
Do you offer to fly on "SLU"?
And rename the SU-57 to SLU -57 after the merger?

[Aviator_]

And rename the SU-57 to SLU -57 after the merger?

Well, they call them the united academies. Zhukovsky and them. Gagarin Academy ZhuGarin.

[prior]

And who makes it easier for Zhugarin and Gakovsky?
If the result of the merger was worth it, the academy would not be called an offensive nickname.
Those who are incapable of creating are usually capable of uniting and separating.

[Aviator_]

I mean, the insanity grows stronger. And it spreads. Now the "Pepsi generation" rules, and soon there will be "the" Unified State Exam "generation, and there will be victims of distance learning on the way.

[Tooks]

Time will tell what and how. But from the MiG long ago, nothing remained, except for its former glory.

[MikhailRus]

Well, that's it, it remains to hammer the nails into the coffin.

[Jacket in stock]

We ate it.
However, everything went to that. Since the 90s, the administrative resource has been on the side of Su.
Now the main thing is that a really administrative superstructure should go under the "optimization", and not the last remaining designers and experimental production.

[NDR-791]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Now the main thing is that a really administrative superstructure should go under the "optimization", and not the last remaining designers and experimental production.

This is the main thing, but I feel like Chernomyrdin - they wanted the best, but it turned out as always.

[Serge-667]

I heard out of my ear that the designers and the OP are also "optimized".

[MikhailRus]

And most importantly, territories, buildings, offices will be vacated ... They are already calculating how much they will receive from the sale

[Serge-667]

And this is the most important thing.

[MikhailRus]

It looks like ...

https://m.zen.yandex.ru/media/75737/aviazavod-kotoryi-my-poteriali-619ddd0aadaa7067dfdb5b4f

[Alf]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Now the main thing is that a really administrative superstructure should go under the "optimization", and not the last remaining designers and experimental production.

Is it really possible?

[Alexga]

It is noted that the process of centralizing the management of the three companies has already begun. The governing powers of Sukhoi were transferred to RSK MiG, which in turn gave the management rights to the United Aircraft Corporation.

So I am reminded of "The Man in the Case": "No matter what happens !!!"

[AlcUz]

"... such a reorganization will give a powerful impetus to the Russian aircraft industry" Yes, really. So powerful that this very aircraft industry may not survive, finally bend ...

[Fisherman]

This "reorganization" will cover, by dilution, the shameful theft in "Sukhoi" ... and the aircraft industry will only benefit due to cooperation ... and aviation development will lose due to the monopoly and then there will be nothing to "cooperate" with.

[ximkim]

There is very little time left in Russia before the apocalypse (March 17, 2024).
So ... the management of the UAC will hurry quickly so that the reorganization goes through with understanding.

[Keyser soze]

There is very little time left in Russia before the apocalypse (March 17, 2024)

And if the apocalypse is silent, do you promise to take pills regularly?

UAC leadership will rush quickly

In order not to be ashamed and meet the apocalypse unreformed ...

The resource is beginning to resemble the appearance of Jehovah's Witnesses invited by Alcoholics Anonymous.

[DED_peer_DED]

Quote: ximkim

There is very little time left in Russia before the apocalypse (March 17, 2024).

It will be too early.
I bet on twenty years and a penny.

[Archon]

Then they will connect Mi and Ka. Then Su and Mig will be added to them. And then we will observe the merger of UVZ and Sukhoi. An armored tank aircraft will be built and launched into space. (Joke)
Yes, everything will be fine. They will make mistakes and fix them themselves. We can only observe from the outside and not interfere. And it has always been and will continue to be so.

[Alf]

Quote: Archon

Make mistakes

Well, yes.

Quote: Archon

will fix it themselves.

Yah ???

[Alf]

Quote: Archon

Then they will connect Mi and Ka. Then Su and Mig will be added to them. And then we will observe the merger of UVZ and Sukhoi.

They will look at the result and add the Northern Shipyard ...

[askort154]

I remember how much "discord" there was at all levels when they decided to create the Russian Helicopters holding. And what is it today?
Russian Helicopters produces one helicopter per day, of different types! The number of employees of the holding is 38,5 thousand people.
We have increased the supply of helicopters abroad.
And the competition is between design departments.
So, experience has been gained for the merger of the Sukhoi with the MiG.

[Serge-667]

I heard this "news" a year ago.
But the fact that now Chemezov will run everything is a shock for me.
KLA cranks.

[prior]

reduction of management levels

And it will turn out as always, as a result of the merger, the number of managers will triple ...

[rocket757]

In Russia, experts have different attitudes towards such a merger.

So we, from the couch, may like / dislike this event ... but we only have to look from the outside.

[for]

The country is more and more like a closed joint-stock company.

[Alf]

Quote: for

The country is more and more like a closed joint-stock company.

And she thought so. The first name before re-registration was the cooperative "Lake".

[Runner2022]

Fine. The merging of the minds of these titans of combat aviation will only bring Russia closer to even more advanced machines.

There will be competition between design departments, that's enough, not in the market.

Su fighter with MiG developments or vice versa ... wow, the blood in your veins freezes from this mixture) forward)

[Dikson]

we will shorten the apparatus - lengthen the coil ... Managers will be added, and workers will decrease ..)

[Radical]

The head of the UAC, Yuri Slyusar, called the impending merger an important event for the national aviation. He noted that such a reorganization would give a powerful impetus to the Russian aircraft industry.

Delirium, to say the least! In the USSR, all design bureaus existed separately - and everything was fine with aviation, if not - fine, in contrast to the current state of the industry, which is led by such a ... specialist!
https://whoiswho.dp.ru/cart/person/1932403

[fighter angel]

Well, one to one, like in the 1920s. One large Central Design Bureau - "kolkhoz of aircraft designers". Something was developed, something was even built ... But there was no point. One hell - I had to split the KB. I am afraid that it will be the same now. It's a pity only MiGovtsev - the firm will disappear completely.

[Glagol1]

Competition was welcomed even in the USSR. Yak, Il, Su, MiG, An, etc., everyone understands that without her everything will turn sour. And our current ones ... instead of producing airplanes, they are engaged in optimization. And they assign themselves exorbitant salaries and bonuses for this. Dirt.

[donavi49]

The message is not understood at all. Wealthy Americans chose, chose in the end, chose the Apache, chopping up the alternatives in the competition. Only the marines there rape the Cobra, but she is already in the foreseeable future, finally everything.

And yes, why are you not scared by the fact that the entire large military soldier was given to Tupolev alone, without competition and competitions. And all BTA was given to Ilyushin, and even such "masterpieces" as the Il-112V, the native Defense Ministry is forced to finance and hold out for the series.

Where are the lamentations about the legendary KB Bartini, Myasishchev - that's where the school is, its own unlikely path. But they were closed back in the USSR.

[Prisoner]

Not an aviator, but I think this merger will not lead to good.

[czes]

Even Stalin did not combine the air design bureau into one ...
For moneymakers, the main thing is grandmother.

[Fanur Galiev]

The unification of the Su and MiG was only a matter of time, alas. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, it was Sukhoi who became the most serious player in the aircraft industry, successfully ousting the MiG. And, as such, now it is only busy with the fact that it monopolizes the market, absorbing a weaker competitor. This is not good, this is a serious blow to the legacy of the Soviet aircraft industry, this solution has many drawbacks, but for capitalism this is quite normal practice.
In my spare time, I was somehow interested in various aircraft building corporations in the same USA. There are similar processes going on there, only they are extended in time. For example, the famous Boeing at one time successfully absorbed McDonald Douglas (creator of the F-15), which was formed by the merger of McDonald and Douglas, Rockwell (creator of the B-1B), which in turn absorbed North America Aviation (creators of the Valkyrie bomber project).
The situation is similar in Europe. Try to find the same companies that once created Messers or Hankels. This is unlikely to work, because instead of them a giant called Airbus Group will be found.

[cat Rusich]

Question
Aircraft with the brand Moment will be?
For example there is SU-57 - now after the merger - transfer the development of a 5th generation single-engine aircraft KB MiG and create MiG-75...

[Ros 56]

The head of the UAC, Yuri Slyusar, called the impending merger an important event for the national aviation. He noted that such a reorganization would give a powerful impetus to the Russian aircraft industry.

Well, how will this powerful impulse arise? Thrash all the way with your tongue.
It seems to me this is not a Slyusar, but a plumber.

[alystan]

I would decipher Slyusar differently - you got a reference to the profession, and I would focus on his Ukrainian origin. Perhaps there is something hitherto unknown to us in this !?

[Aviator_]

He noted that such a reorganization would give a powerful impetus to the Russian aircraft industry.

Of course, there is no reason to doubt a powerful impulse, but in which direction it will be directed, after all, the impulse is a vector quantity?

[Alexey-74]

We have been talking about this for a long time. Of course Migovtsy will lose their individuality.

[Bshkaus]

I fully agree with the last paragraph. I know on my own skin what it is and how it decomposes.
But here we have to dig deeper: there is still a degradation of the schools themselves. This is not to say that they do not develop at all, there are many techies and executive managers among young people (yes, it’s executive and you heard right, managers who hold the posts of chiefs and deputies of the chief, but at the same time fulfill the whims of the main ones), but those who deeply understand the essence, yes Besides, there is practically no need for them to be given the green light for implementation.
In short, a merger is an attempt to assemble a consolidated, at least somehow capable structure from scattered remnants

[chakryzhnik]

Optimization has also reached the leading aviation design bureaus. May the earth rest in peace.

[NAVARRO]

Where there is government there is corruption, it is necessary to completely transfer it to private hands and break it up into competing enterprises.

[Ros 56]

Oh, a couple was found to Chubais, who also talked like a parrot about efficient private owners. The whole country sees what happened.

[hostel]

From the point of view of management, this is correct, but from the point of view of competition, there are no ideas.

[alystan]

This is the logic of effective managers, even in the presence of hyped competition as the engine of the market, to take the entire market for themselves, crushing all competitors for themselves.
How many different design bureaus used to be and the work was in full swing, and ideas were born and implemented without stagnating for years. There was proper state control, although there were excesses of the heads of individual bureaus, who simultaneously managed entire industries.
Now what do you think they really care about efficiency? As if not, they will enlarge and enlarge their salaries according to the new staffing table, at least. And at the most, they will ruin and destroy what still works. How all this resembles Poghosyan's actions ...

[Ural resident]

The unification of "Sukhoi" and "MIGA" means only the cessation of the existence of MIG and that's it. It’s a pity, in fact, as we are already accustomed to the "pillars" that propelled progress. Could throw some money from hydrocarbons there, technologies are just developing, if they would get young people, give orders - there would be enough work for decades. But it is more important to build nuclear power plants in Turkey

[Blue fox]

Unification may not be the worst option. Here, it seems to me, two things are important:
1. So that there is still some kind of competition between the design groups, for only in disputes is truth born;
2. So that the UAC, Sukhoi and MIG do not end up turning into the OKAK SukhoMIG!

[Adimius38]

In fact, this is a takeover by one company by another. Figuratively speaking, in the workshops, they will collect dry for a moment ... and this is not good, since we are losing a moment. The United States, for example, maintains competition among aircraft manufacturers and each design school creates something of its own

[jeka424]

destroy everything, instant, uaz, zil, tractor plant, why invest and think about how to develop for the better

[Maga Winner]

How do we call the planes, sumig, or misukh?

[alystan]

In a famous house, they began rearranging furniture together with workers who took root ...

The Concern Radioelectronic Technologies (KRET) of the state corporation Rostec is headed by Alexander Pan, who previously held the post of Deputy General Director for State Defense Order. Nikolay Kolesov, who has been in charge of KRET JSC since 2009, moved to another position in the structure of Rostec - he became the General Director of Russian Helicopters JSC. Andrey Boginsky, the former head of Russian Helicopters, is moving to the UAC as Deputy General Director for Civil Aviation - General Director of the Irkut Corporation.

As they said in Rostec, personnel rotation is intended to strengthen the work of aircraft manufacturing companies in priority areas... KRET carries out import substitution and development of modern avionics on-board electronics. The UAC and Russian Helicopters are facing large-scale tasks related to the development of civil aviation programs and the promotion of new types of aircraft to the markets.

"All three managers have been working in the aviation complex of Rostec for a long time and have established themselves as professional top managers.... They know the production well and understand the specifics of the industry. When making personnel decisions, we relied on their experience, competencies, and the presence of successful management cases. Such appointments are great hopes and great responsibility, "commented Sergei Chemezov, CEO of Rostec State Corporation, on the staff reshuffle.

Alexander Vladimirovich Pan, born in 1976, a native of the city of Semipalatinsk, in 2000 graduated from the Moscow State Academy of Fine Chemical Technology named after M.V. Lomonosov and who began work at KRET in 2014 as the head of the Department of the fuel and energy complex. Until that moment, he had the following track record:
07.2003 - 05.2004 LLC "LINGAS", engineer of the electrical equipment department
06.2004 - 06.2009 CJSC "Electrokhimzashchita", chief technologist, general director
12.2009 - 11.2012 LLC "Naftatehresurs", chief specialist, head of the production equipment department
11.2012 - 05.2014 LLC Oil Company Alliance UK, Deputy Director of the MTO Department

But immediately after joining KRET, various awards "poured in":
2016 Certificate of honor of the Administration of the city of Stavropol
2017 Diploma of the FSMTC of Russia
2017 Medal "For Labor Valor"
2019 Certificate of honor of the President of the Russian Federation

Well, that's it, KRET was lucky, then how, now it would only be to justify the hopes of Chemezov, who apparently forgot the simple arithmetic commandment: "The sum does not change from the rearrangement of the places of the terms!"

[p0pulivox]

Those reorganizations, optimizations and health improvement that took place before our eyes, most often ended in either consumptive extinction or liquidation of the once powerful NGOs. At the same time, their territory was gradually or rapidly declining, as were the specialists and equipment. There are fears that in this case there will be something similar ...

[dub0vitsky]

Russian aviation was up to par due to competition. Now she's gone. It remains to put at the head of the next ragozin. Death will be quick and without pain.

[av58]

The merger of MiG and Sukhoi into a single company, whatever the explanation and justification for this, is the death of the Design Bureau, and above all the MiG. For such "optimization" under Stalin, they were put up against the wall.

[Dkuznecov]

Not "fusion" but annihilation.
Maybe it's for the best.
There was no fair competition anyway.

[bbss]

Woodpeckers ... woodpeckers will destroy everything.