Military Review

The construction of several promising Checkmate fighters at once began in Komsomolsk-on-Amur

256
The construction of several promising Checkmate fighters at once began in Komsomolsk-on-Amur

Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation the plant (KnAAZ) began assembling several promising fifth-generation Checkmate fighters at once. This was stated by the head of the UAC Yuri Slyusar.


Slyusar, within the framework of the Dubai Airshow 2021 launched today in the UAE, said that several copies of the Checkmate fighter are being assembled at the same time at KnAAZ. At the same time, he did not give any details, limiting himself to saying that mass production will begin in 2026.

Thus, Slyusar confirmed earlier information about the assembly of prototypes of a promising fighter in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. Only earlier it was about one sample, not several.

The presentation of the new Russian promising single-engine fifth-generation fighter Checkmate took place in July as part of the MAKS-2021 air show. The aircraft was developed taking into account deliveries to both Russian Aerospace Forces and foreign customers. The declared characteristics: speed - up to 2M, flight range - up to 3 thousand km, payload weight - 7,4 thousand kg. A radar with AFAR, a circular optical and electronic reconnaissance system, a built-in electronic jamming system, an optical sighting system, and a wide-range communication system were installed.

As previously stated in the UAC, the fighter will make its first flight in 2023, prototypes will appear in 2024-2025, an initial batch in 2026, and serial deliveries of the new fighter will begin in 2026-2027.
Photos used:
https://www.instagram.com/uac_russia/
256 comments
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  1. yfast
    yfast 14 November 2021 17: 53
    -61
    We'll sell the newest engine, of course, along with the coolest radar?
    1. mark1
      mark1 14 November 2021 18: 12
      +16
      Quote: yfast
      The engine is the newest,

      AL-41F1 - from the same source
    2. venik
      venik 14 November 2021 18: 35
      +14
      Quote: yfast
      We'll sell the newest engine, of course, along with the coolest radar?

      =========
      In-in! Here doDaki Americans - take their newest F-35 to all who do not hit "vtyuhivayut"! Yes, not just "offer", but to put it mildly also impose! Just like in an old comedy movie:

      laughing AND WHY do they want it? what
      PS Do not worry: all the same, EXPORT versions will go for export ... bully
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. businessv
          businessv 14 November 2021 20: 38
          +16
          Quote: Cormoran
          The lot of the countries of the third phase.

          Translate, what are "Phase III countries"? Phases of decomposition, rigor mortis, dullness ... in short, translate!
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 14 November 2021 22: 51
            +8
            Quote: businessv
            Translate, what are "Phase III countries"? Phases of decomposition, rigor mortis, dullness ... in short, translate!

            Kormoran ochin plyho knows ryuski language!
          2. Piramidon
            Piramidon 14 November 2021 23: 03
            +5
            Quote: businessv
            Translate, what are "Phase III countries"? Phases of decomposition, rigor mortis, dullness ... in short, translate!

            Apparently, somewhere in the remnants of his brain, something about three-phase electricity was deposited. So I decided to show off my erudition. wassat
          3. Cormoran
            Cormoran 15 November 2021 09: 45
            0
            Have you ever heard of Gumilev-son? Which Lev Nikolaevich? With his theory of passionarity and four-phase ethnic cycle? Russia is now in the third phase. Golden autumn, accumulation of wealth. Accordingly, Pennza Hubert Alles, the remaining priorities as far as possible. This is not trolling or insult, in any way. Statement of fact.
            1. businessv
              businessv 15 November 2021 17: 02
              +1
              Quote: Cormoran
              Have you ever heard of Gumilev-son? Which Lev Nikolaevich? With his theory of passionarity and four-phase ethnic cycle?
              Oh, you had enough, you would indicate right away what it was about! With this theory, he tried to link history and ethnography, thereby causing a quarrel between historians and ethnographers. I would not base my beliefs on such precarious grounds. An enormous amount of work has been done, but this theory has not yet been accepted by most historians and ethnographers.
              1. Cormoran
                Cormoran 16 November 2021 02: 27
                0
                If it works, then you can lean on the opinion of the majority. And she works. Although, indeed, yes, it gives the impression of being sucked from the thumb. And this is to put it mildly.
      2. Vadmir
        Vadmir 14 November 2021 19: 30
        +10
        In-in! Here doDaki Americans - take their newest F-35 to all who do not hit "vtyuhivayut"!
        The Americans are not selling the F-35 to China, which means that no one will stupidly copy it.
        The United States does not sell F-35s not only to Russia and China, but even to Turkey, as there are doubts as to whether Turkey is really a reliable ally.
        And Russia sells to everyone who pays, and it doesn't matter what China copies, it doesn't matter that Turkey is in NATO, it doesn't matter that India actively cooperates with the United States. The main thing is to get money right here and now, and after us even a flood.
        1. TovSaaakhov
          TovSaaakhov 14 November 2021 19: 38
          +11
          Is it okay that Russia is far from the United States? According to economic opportunities. If there are no bucks from sales abroad, then most likely there will be no cars for their own people. But you haven't heard about the economy, probably ...
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 15 November 2021 05: 49
            -6
            Quote: TovSaaakhov
            If there are no bucks from sales abroad, then most likely there will be no cars for their own people.

            And what, then, are all oil and gas revenues for? In order to invest them in the securities of "partners"?
            1. TovSaaakhov
              TovSaaakhov 15 November 2021 07: 36
              +2
              And why are countries (and not the poorest ones) trying to snatch arms contracts?
              Do you seriously think that there is nothing else to spend money on except to satisfy your military desires?
            2. vvnab
              vvnab 15 November 2021 23: 11
              0
              What income !? What are you speaking about? The expenses are solid ... Do not believe me? Yes, even Nabiullina is out, listen!
        2. venik
          venik 14 November 2021 20: 51
          +23
          Quote: Vadmir
          And Russia sells to everyone who pays, and it doesn't matter what China copies, it doesn't matter that Turkey is in NATO, it doesn't matter that India actively cooperates with the United States.

          ========
          O! And I keep wondering why the Yankees are so diligently trying to prevent the sale of Russian weapons to Turkey (a NATO member), India (which is flirting with them), but it turns out that it is! It turns out that they care about US so that OUR secrets "to the side" (more precisely - to them, dear ones) do not flow away! They threaten the Turks and Indians with "sanctions", so they "care" for us, they protect our State Secret !!! lol
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 15 November 2021 07: 04
            -10
            Quote: venik
            O! And I keep wondering why the Yankees are trying so hard prevent the sale of Russian arms to Turkey (NATO member), India (who flirts with them), but it turns out that it is! It turns out that they care about US so that OUR secrets "to the side" (more precisely - to them, dear ones) do not flow away! The Turks and Hindus are threatened with "sanctions", so we are "taken care of" our State Secret is protected!!!

            No. This suggests that the United States does not even care about Russian secrets (S-400). Because they studied the S-300. The US wants to ban Russian weapons in the economic stranglehold of Russia.

            A colleague is absolutely right, the United States does not sell its weapons to just anyone. Unlike Russia, they are more jealous of sensitive weapons that could change the balance of power in the region. And they will certainly never sell weapons to a hostile country, bloc, etc.

            The whole question boils down to: to whom - just money, and to whom - geopolitical alignments. Russia and the United States occupy different positions here.
            1. Hermit21
              Hermit21 15 November 2021 08: 42
              +3
              Because they studied the S-300

              And how will the study of the ancient export S-300PMU-1 help in the fight against at least non-export S-300PM1 / -300PM1-2 / -300PM2?
        3. Ratmir_Ryazan
          Ratmir_Ryazan 14 November 2021 21: 52
          +1
          And Russia sells to everyone who pays, and it doesn't matter what China copies, it doesn't matter that Turkey is in NATO, it doesn't matter that India actively cooperates with the United States. The main thing is to get money right here and now, and after us even a flood.


          If Russia had not sold fighters to everyone in a row, then we ourselves would not have any fighters now, all factories would have collapsed back in the 90s.

          What did China copy from Russia?

          Shenyang J-11 is licensed. Everything that the Chinese stuffed into it of their own production. All they copied is the concept of weapons systems. We and the US and the EU are doing the same.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 15 November 2021 06: 25
            -1
            Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
            If Russia had not sold fighters to everyone in a row, then we ourselves would not have any fighters now, all factories would have collapsed back in the 90s.

            Who told you such nonsense? Arms sales 4% of total Russian exports, and 1% of GDP.
        4. sportline
          sportline 14 November 2021 22: 38
          +12
          The radar and engine cannot be copied. The engine is an extremely high-tech unit that requires the development of all fundamental technologies in the country. First of all, materials science. These technologies at this level are available only in Russia and the United States. These technologies are simply nowhere to be found. This is a closed club.
          And China makes its own crafts, which are not advanced. Don't be afraid to copy. It is not difficult to build a glider. But a glider is not a platform.
          Moreover, each aircraft is a combat unit of a network-centric system, which includes space communications and reconnaissance, as well as air defense. The most high-tech air defense systems have been developed here. Therefore, there is nothing to be afraid of. It is necessary to earn money and occupy the market.
          1. Liam
            Liam 14 November 2021 22: 44
            +7
            Quote: sportline
            The engine is an extremely high-tech unit that requires the development of all fundamental technologies in the country. First of all, materials science. These technologies are at this level only in Russia and the United States.

            Snecma (France) and Rolls-Royce (England) are very surprised ...
            1. Drot Gyt
              Drot Gyt 14 November 2021 23: 20
              -11
              On IL 111, the engine probably caught fire from an overabundance of high technologies
              1. Fitter65
                Fitter65 15 November 2021 00: 06
                +7
                Quote: Drot Gyt
                On IL 111, the engine probably caught fire from an overabundance of high technologies

                Considering that such an apparatus -IL-111-no from the word at all., then maybe from an overabundance.
            2. user1212
              user1212 15 November 2021 05: 21
              +3
              Quote: Liam
              Snecma (France) and Rolls-Royce (England) are very surprised ...

              Yes, the previous speaker cut the club a little, of course, but let's remember that if the car Rolls-Royce belongs to the German BMW, then the owner of Rolls-Royce plc is a little more difficult to establish. There are a lot of subsidiaries and branches in Norway, Canada, USA, etc. But after all, someone from them prohibits cooperation with China, for example, with a stroke of the pen. It is clear that the British authorities are voicing this ban, I wonder who made such a decision. And something tells me that the British authorities themselves have nothing to do with it. So whether Rolls-Royce is English is still a big question
              1. Liam
                Liam 15 November 2021 08: 11
                +1
                Quote: user1212
                But after all, someone forbids them with a stroke of the pen to cooperate with China, for example

                Western countries have officially imposed sanctions on the supply of military technology against China since 1989 after the events in Tiananmen Square. The sanctions are still in effect.
                1. user1212
                  user1212 15 November 2021 13: 51
                  0
                  It's official. There would be a desire to open a daughter in a conditional Zimbabwe and establish work with China through her. Not a problem. But if they don't, then they will lose much more possible profits on such a deal. Well, so the free market, world trade, why
              2. sportline
                sportline 15 November 2021 15: 21
                0
                In my passage, I voiced countries capable of producing a new generation product. Those. 5th. Snekma and RR produce products from the last century without fundamental innovations. Personally, I see their level is much lower than products from the USA and Russia. Considering how many years we have spent on the development of Product-30, I can conclude that it is extremely difficult. This is probably what prevents the opening of development work. Expensive and long. If anything, they will buy it from the USA. And our fellows. We sold about 30 Su-630 units (so far) all over the world, now you can earn money by upgrading engines to AL41F1, and then by upgrading to Product 30.
            3. sportline
              sportline 15 November 2021 15: 14
              0
              Snekma produces a competitor to our RD-33 engine. Rolls Royce does not manufacture any engine for fighters in-house. Only in cooperation with Germany, Italy and Spain. None of their products, in my opinion, is at the level of AL-41F1.
              Not to mention the Product-30. But such motors are produced by GE and PW.
              If I am wrong, please correct it.
        5. Qas
          Qas 15 November 2021 11: 20
          +2
          Stupidity at the level of kitchen conversations.
          Sold the plane: it is supposed to be serviced. And this is additional money. It's the same with missiles and tanks. Do they need to be lubricated / MOT carried out?
          For each weapon sold, there is a train of additional money.
      3. Volkof
        Volkof 14 November 2021 21: 10
        +6
        In Russia, there are slightly more than 300 new attack aircraft, about 100 perpetual MiG-31s, another 200 Su-25 ... and that's it? !!! 250 crumbling MiG-29, about 250 Su-24M on decommissioning and 200 simple old Su-27 ... Of the last couple of dozen Su-27SM3 (SM) and MiG-29SM will remain ... The rest will be written off, barely breathing and sighting systems on they do not work ... Minus 700 aircraft ... It's just an ass and we will be rear-mouthing in 5 years ... We will become like South Korea and Japan in attack aircraft ... And the country is huge, it means even worse ... Here you are and achievements ... And in 4 fleets, there are only 21 new Su-30SM, just fucking!

        https://aviation21.ru/sostav-boevogo-aviaparka-vks-rossii-na-2020-god/
        https://dfnc.ru/aviazcia/aviatsiya-vmf-rossii/
        https://topwar.ru/178103-sravnenie-armij-ssha-i-rossii-v-2020-godu-voenno-vozdushnye-sily.html
        1. mvg
          mvg 14 November 2021 21: 20
          +2
          Let's become like South Korea and Japan

          What are the indicators? I want it like in the Republic of Korea .. in the sense of living! ) And the income is the same
          1. Ratmir_Ryazan
            Ratmir_Ryazan 14 November 2021 21: 54
            +10
            What are the indicators? I want it like in the Republic of Korea .. in the sense of living! ) And the income is the same


            Work like in South Korea and Japan, create the same quality products and you will have the same salary.
            1. mvg
              mvg 14 November 2021 22: 16
              +14
              Work both in South Korea and Japan

              I work 6/1 and not 8 hours. It is unlikely that I will be inferior to the average Korean in intelligence / physics. Only the salary is not like that. At the same time, neither Japan nor Korea has either gas, oil, ores, or forests. And the average salary in our region, for some reason, 51600 winked , the question is, where does the escho come from to the "average" remaining 15-20 thousand? I do not know.
              Each of the countries, see above, conducted not a single war, unlike the USSR, did not win. And they live well, Nonsense. Maybe I should ask Light-faced?
              And why is it the entire civilized world, against us, took up arms, except for a couple of rogue countries? Like Syria, Iran, Venezuela ... which themselves are in a deep hole ...
              1. Ratmir_Ryazan
                Ratmir_Ryazan 14 November 2021 22: 50
                +16
                You are not about the process, but about the final product or service that you produce, tell us !!!

                Do you make cars in your area like in Japan and Korea? 10 million and 7 million pieces per year and the same quality?

                Do you make household appliances in your area like in Japan and Korea?

                Do electronics in your area like Japan and Korea?

                Is the quality of roads, bridges, houses in your area the same as in Japan and Korea?

                NOT!!!

                So why are you applying for the same salary as theirs?

                Just because you spend 6 days a week at work and get tired too? And what's the point if the result of your labor is worse than that of the Japanese and Koreans.

                Your labor is not worth as much as the labor of a Japanese or Korean, and therefore your salary is lower.

                And now for resources -

                Russia sells oil for 150 billion dollars a year, gas for 50 billion dollars, more metals, fertilizers for about 25 billion dollars.

                225 billion dollars / 147 million people = $ 1500 per year or $ 127 PER MONTH (9 rubles) per Russian citizen and this is not from net profit, but proceeds.

                Well, is this enough to live like in Japan or Korea?

                NO.

                And from this you also subtract the costs of extracting resources, purchasing equipment, transportation, etc. and get in the end, God forbid, $ 100 per person in Russia per month.

                And the state also needs an army, police, courts, medicine, science, infrastructure for something to maintain and develop.

                Until we start working as in the USA, Europe, Japan and Korea, until we start making the same high-quality and popular products, we will not receive the same salaries, because this is simply impossible.
                1. mvg
                  mvg 14 November 2021 23: 05
                  -6
                  225 billion dollars / 147 million people = $ 1500 per year or $ 127 PER MONTH (9 rubles) per Russian citizen and this is not from net profit, but proceeds

                  This is all x ... I, in KSA they also do not produce anything, as in the UAE and Kuwait, and the number of population is comparable, but look at Dubai and, for example, Voronezh or Vorkuta. There is a difference?
                  Until we start working in the USA, Europe, Japan and Korea

                  Excuse me, what's the problem? fish, as you know, rots from the head .. We have been living this way since 17, through one place. Only we have been rubbed all these years that we are the chosen nation, right now communism will begin and the FSE will simply be jealous.
                  PS: I don’t know for "we" for "everyone" .. but I try to work. In his profession, it is also hardly the worst. And I know a lot of normal people who try and work. But the State is just spreading rot ... as soon as you raise your head above the shit, they put it back even lower. You think this is BOTTOM, right now I'll push off, but no, it's just another level. They knock from below, which means there are still those who are lower.
                  1. for
                    for 15 November 2021 03: 08
                    -1
                    Quote: mvg
                    We have been living this way since 17, through one place.

                    More precisely, from 0017 BC.
                    And since 1917, the country has been recovering and moving forward, also since 1945.
                    And your P.S. agree.
                  2. just exp
                    just exp 15 November 2021 11: 41
                    +1
                    God forbid, 3-6 million people receive money from the Saudis and others from oil, the rest do not receive anything, but work to make money.
                    to judge the entire Arabian peninsula is like judging the whole of Russia in the center of Moscow.
                    You poor fellow do not know that in Dubai you will move a hundred meters away from the center and luxurious quarters and find yourself in a ghetto where they live on the street and there is not even sorting.
                    1. mvg
                      mvg 16 November 2021 22: 39
                      -1
                      God forbid, 3-6 million people receive money from the Saudis and others from oil, the rest do not receive anything, but work to make money.

                      Excuse me, what kind of press do you read? In the accounts of ordinary Saudis, even at birth, there is more money than an ordinary Soviet person can earn in his entire life. About 12 million in our hard-earned money. On the way to the northern capital, I know many villages where the average salary is about 15-20 thousand rubles. Nurse in kindergarten earns at a rate of 12-15 thousand.
                      PS: On weekends I worked part-time in a taxi, having a couple of higher educations of not the most simple universities. Hellish labor 16 hours a day. I involuntarily compared the salary of people of different professions, while "ordinary" people, to the bakery by taxi ... "
                      I’m not complaining, you can live if you “do it” without days off and vacations. God forbid you or your close relatives get sick.
                      And now I don’t envy the owners of LLCs or any other small business ... I’m looking at how our tenants are closing down ... right up to large network offices. Or such a price tag is set so that even people who come to the shopping center in ML-class Mercedes get rid of the prices.
                      And on TV everything is fine. They talk only for "covid", they zombify any living creature. The deputies no longer know which "idea" to promote in the dumk, Golikova does not slip off the screen, Drozd does not know at all, neither the constitution, nor the law.
                      PPPS: Well, I'm glad for Ratmir-Riazan, apparently, my brain is washed as it should. I mnu, at a familiar recreation center there are a couple of people like robots staring at TV and that's all .. even the manner of conversation has changed, they imitate Solovyov and the hedgehog with him.
                  3. p0pulivox
                    p0pulivox 15 November 2021 17: 48
                    -1
                    Maksim! What do you, Mr. "Ratmir_Ryazan" with whom there is a dispute, thinks - it's different!
                  4. Ratmir_Ryazan
                    Ratmir_Ryazan 15 November 2021 22: 04
                    +2
                    This is all x ... I, in KSA they also do not produce anything, as in the UAE and Kuwait, and the number of population is comparable, but look at Dubai and, for example, Voronezh or Vorkuta. There is a difference?


                    9,5 million people live in the UAE, of which only 1,5 million are local (citizens), all the rest are labor migrants who plow for them for $ 500 a month.

                    The UAE's oil production is 5 times less than in Russia, and the population there is 100 times less.

                    You will understand the difference.

                    And Dubai is a resort city, it was built to make money from tourism. This is facilitated by both the terrain and the climate.

                    In Russia, if you build the same 5, it will not pay off. It's cold here and the sea is different.

                    And you shouldn't blame your failures on the state. Nobody here by force kept you and is not keeping you, you could leave and realize yourself not in Russia, while in Russia people earn billions by creating world-class companies.
                2. Sergey Averchenkov
                  Sergey Averchenkov 15 November 2021 01: 08
                  -1
                  But I don’t need to talk about the USA, there they won’t take a grinder in their hands without a protective mask ... gloves, overalls ... You are simplifying the situation very much. Why does the United States consume 20% with a gross world value of 40%? Do you want to blame it all on an ordinary worker? Oh well...
                3. Stas157
                  Stas157 15 November 2021 09: 25
                  +6
                  Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                  Пokay we won't work like in USA, Europe, Japan and Koreauntil we begin to make the same high-quality and popular products, we will not receive the same salaries

                  That is, if a Japanese man gets a job at a Russian plant and works with the same diligence, he will receive a Japanese salary or what?

                  Not a damn thing depends on a simple hard worker. It all comes down to quality management. And what is our quality of management with negative selection in power, everyone already knows.
                  1. mvg
                    mvg 16 November 2021 22: 41
                    -1
                    a japanese will get a job at a Russian plant and will work with the same diligence

                    The samurai will die .. or seppuku dash hara-kiri, or simply will not be able to. Simple japan, now he enjoys figure skating more than katana.
                4. Torins
                  Torins 15 November 2021 10: 56
                  +2
                  For some reason, our workers leaving abroad and doing the same work, but with more advanced equipment, earn many times more there. I'm talking about specialists, not about those whose skills abroad are only enough to pick strawberries.
              2. Piramidon
                Piramidon 14 November 2021 23: 10
                +2
                Quote: mvg
                And the average salary in our region, why is it 51600, the question is, where does the remaining 15-20 thousand come from before the "average"?

                What is incomprehensible here? If your boss has a salary of 100 thousand, and you have 20 thousand, on average it comes out 51. Elementary arithmetic. lol
                1. Fitter65
                  Fitter65 15 November 2021 00: 12
                  +1
                  Quote: Piramidon
                  What is incomprehensible here? If your boss has a salary of 100 thousand, and you have 20 thousand, on average it comes out 51. Basic arithmetic

                  On average, for two, it turns out 60000. Basic arithmetic (100000 + 20000): 2 = 60000 laughing
                  1. Yuri V.A
                    Yuri V.A 15 November 2021 03: 54
                    0
                    Even in elementary arithmetic, the number of workers is not equal to the number of bosses, at best seven with a bipod and one with a spoon. Therefore, 8 × 50 = 000 (for all)
                    400 - 000 × 7 = 20 (to the boss), salary 000 + 260 Bonus
                    1. Piramidon
                      Piramidon 15 November 2021 15: 46
                      +2
                      Quote: Yuri V.A
                      Even in elementary arithmetic, the number of employees is not equal to the number of bosses

                      But some bosses receive not thousands, but millions.
                    2. Fitter65
                      Fitter65 15 November 2021 23: 48
                      0
                      Quote: Yuri V.A
                      Even in elementary arithmetic, the number of employees is not equal to the number of bosses,

                      Chief, deputy, chief engineer, lawyer, 2 accountants, 1 tractor driver, 1 electrician driver, 2 plumbers + 1 gas electric welder ...
                      1. Yuri V.A
                        Yuri V.A 16 November 2021 02: 34
                        0
                        Of the above, except that the chief accountant will pass for a half-boss, the rest on a common ration. And your team is missing three watchmen.
                      2. Fitter65
                        Fitter65 16 November 2021 11: 52
                        0
                        The watchmen are from another structure. laughing the tractor driver, the driver and the plumbers, yes, in general ...
                  2. Piramidon
                    Piramidon 15 November 2021 15: 43
                    0
                    Persuaded. Let the boss get 82 thousand. laughing
                2. mvg
                  mvg 16 November 2021 22: 49
                  -1
                  *
                  Elementary arithmetic

                  There are 10-15 hard workers for one chief. Your rhyme doesn't fit. Yes, and I'm not a hard worker.
                  I remember the 90s, when professors, after 6-7 couples at the department, went to sell jackets to the store. Simple sellers. I'm serious. 95-96, professor of Voenmekh named after Ustinov, on the theory of electrical engineering. As well as the head of the department who worked in the parking lot of the Varshavsky railway station, if memory serves.
                  I know the head of a workshop, a large plant (has an export outlet), that he still counts the volume in m2, and makes an estimate in Excel ..
          2. alexmach
            alexmach 14 November 2021 22: 15
            +7
            I want it like in the Republic of Korea

            Do you even know how they live there?
            1. mvg
              mvg 14 November 2021 22: 56
              -3
              do you know how they live there?

              I haven’t been to South Korea, I watched a couple of channels on YouTube, and one friend went to see them a year ago. I also regularly watch one Ukrainian (normal) who rushes from the Koreans.
              PS: I can only judge by YouTube ... in my opinion - an unattainable level for most Russians. Not even in perspective, but never. I also see (in numbers) the economy of the Koreans and (also in numbers) the standard of living. Enough to ponder.
              1. The popuas
                The popuas 15 November 2021 04: 06
                -1
                The president was imprisoned in the South Caucasus for corruption, and our immunity is guaranteed even after the removal of powers wink ... how it glows ... panima! repeat ... About this check ... They will build five of them, they fly at parades until the age of 26, and no one will buy them. Yankees are not stupid ... they will take anyone they need for a causal place and refuse to buy! And maybe a couple will fall ...! Everyone here is shouting about star wars, like the USSR has overstrained ... and now the GDP is 'breeding' the Yankees in the same spirit! Yes, only the Russian Federation will overstrain more ... then t 57 ... then t 50 ... In whose troops shish! Again, money will be consumed at exhibitions and on business trips ... Mdeee ... it's sickening to look at this
                1. user1212
                  user1212 15 November 2021 05: 56
                  +4
                  Quote: Popuas
                  The President was imprisoned in the South Caucasus for corruption

                  Ummm, you don't know the situation well. Without exception, all the leaders of the Republic of Korea or their closest relatives ended up in prison or left their posts as a result of assassinations, coups, popular protests or impeachment, which does not prevent the newly elected one from exactly repeating the path of his predecessors. Called the "presidential curse"
              2. user1212
                user1212 15 November 2021 06: 29
                +7
                Quote: mvg
                I haven’t been to South Korea, I watched a couple of channels on YouTube, and one friend went to see them a year ago.

                It's like judging the standard of living in Russia from a video from a ruble or from a review of the Central Department Store. As the old anecdote goes, "don't confuse tourism with emigration." Let's then judge Korea by the movie "Parasites" :))
                1. mvg
                  mvg 16 November 2021 22: 55
                  -1
                  This is how to judge the standard of living in Russia by a video from the ruble

                  And you watch the video, there people did not want to rush to shoot the sweet life of South Koreans, as we show the parade. You can not tell me the ins and outs of the May 9 parades, for example.
                  I walked along the Nevsky Prospect with a flag at one time (and I was happy, how could it be that the chosen one was entrusted with carrying the flag), and I saw how much and what kind of money the municipality is spending on this nonsense in my small town. And I can imagine how much they steal.
                  PS: Chel compared life in Korea and the Republic of Korea. For some reason I believe him, instinctively, more than TV Star, for example.
              3. alexmach
                alexmach 15 November 2021 12: 34
                0
                PS: I can only judge by YouTube ... in my opinion - an unattainable level for most Russians

                Well, I myself have not been there either, but there are rumors that there is a specific mentality - oh-very totalitarian, and a work culture - you have to work hard to live a normal life in a way that most of the Russians cannot physically. Even so, that successful success is by no means guaranteed. And the one who can do so in Russia will most likely find the opportunity to live decently.
                1. mvg
                  mvg 16 November 2021 23: 02
                  0
                  to plow in order to live a normal life in a way that most of the Russians cannot physically

                  Remember our football coach Nepomniachtchi? That the Cameroon national team was promoted to the "people" .. Argentina was bailed out, Hungary .. So he coached South Korean teams, invited Russian players there. handicap. Savichev, for example
                  I mean that Europeans are initially stronger than Asians (on average), but for the mentality, yes, hardworking, I do not argue. But I repeat once again, there are such people in Russia, they work like oxen on the Volga ... according to one well-known picture. They even forget to drink. ))
                  1. alexmach
                    alexmach 16 November 2021 23: 50
                    0
                    For those, at first, it was hard, of course

                    Was it hard for professional athletes? Weird. And what did they do before?
                    I mean, Europeans are initially stronger than Asians (on average)

                    Physically - maybe, but not a fact, Plus, in relation to the players, they are probably also taller and this is also important.
                    But I repeat once again, there are such people in Russia, they work like oxen on the Volga ... according to one well-known picture. They even forget to drink. ))

                    Such people are everywhere, but in Russia they are separate self-motivated individuals, and there they are simply the norm of society for the average person. And I repeat once again, I am sure that such people in Russia also generally achieve a certain level of material well-being and generally live with dignity.
              4. p0pulivox
                p0pulivox 15 November 2021 17: 54
                -2
                Maxim, but we got up from our knees, a few more jerks and breakthroughs and that's it !!! winked
          3. vindigo
            vindigo 15 November 2021 10: 46
            +1
            Ordinary people don't really live there. The quality of life in Korea is evidenced by the fact that all Koreans dream of "breaking out of this hell." You just fell for a bright advertisement.
            1. mvg
              mvg 16 November 2021 23: 05
              -1
              Koreans dream of "breaking out of this hell"

              Sorry - nonsense. Lots of Koreans (southern) emigrating overseas ??? Nobody ever. Unlike the northern ones, who are kept behind a thorn and repressed "up to the seventh" knee for the rest of the family, if anyone runs away.
              Here is someone, and the North Koreans just seem to the whole world, only the front part of their life, and slums and everyday life are kept in a ban: journalists are imprisoned, photo and video materials are confiscated. (although I just do not like journalists, under any sauce)
              1. vindigo
                vindigo 16 November 2021 23: 14
                +1
                You, too, fell for advertising. Talk to South Koreans, they will tell you about their flourishing life. The reasons for the weak migration are that they understand that nobody needs them abroad and they don't like narrow-eyed people, there are also problems with learning languages, English is difficult for them, the culture is different. Well, if there is a possibility, they are ticking away in the USA. Southerners also have slums. There are many homeless people - they spend the night in the metro, unemployment is in the southern provinces. Also, replacement with cheap gaster is underway. What is there in the north, I do not know. Mainly residents of border areas flee to South Korea, 70% are women. Their fate is unenviable. There have already been cases when the northerners came back.
        2. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 14 November 2021 21: 28
          +5
          Data on fighters "The Military Balance" 2021:

          China 247 - Su-30/35 / J-16, 363 - Su-27 / J-11/15, 483 - J-10, 24+ J-20 (some sources give a figure of 120-150 pieces). This is without the horde of J-7/8.
          Total: 1117 (maybe +100 more fighters of the fifth generation J-20)

          In Russia 226 - Su-30/35, 364 - MiG-29/31, Su-27/33 (how many of them can take off in principle is unknown), 120 - Su-34 (although this is a bomber)
          Total: 710

          Su-24/25, J-7/8 - are very outdated, their combat effectiveness is near-zero.
        3. venik
          venik 14 November 2021 21: 49
          +8
          Quote: Volkof
          250 crumbling MiG-29s, about 250 Su-24Ms on decommissioning and 200 simple old Su-27s ... Of the last couple of dozen Su-27SM3 (SM) and MiG-29SM ... The rest will be written off, they can hardly breathe ...

          =======
          First: Su-27 remains a little over a hundred (of which 25 are Su-27SM3), not 200 as you indicate. MiG-29 - about the same (of which more than 40 MiG-29SMT).
          On the Su-24 - there are approx. 120 (the rest of the front-line bomber fleet is Su-34, of which there are 122 so far).
          Ie: you need to write off in the next 5-6 several years approx. 150 fighters and bombers. There is a big sadness for the Su-25 - there are almost 2 hundred of them in the troops! What to replace is not yet clear!
          But WHERE did the figure "minus 700" come from ???
          1. Volkof
            Volkof 14 November 2021 21: 52
            -2
            https://aviation21.ru/sostav-boevogo-aviaparka-vks-rossii-na-2020-god/
            So, according to your data, we are not in second place? It was not me who counted ... I agree with your numbers, but then, we are already in deep ass ...
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 14 November 2021 22: 03
              0
              Quote: Volkof
              So, according to your data, we are not in second place?


              So far in 3rd place among countries. But India has come close, and will definitely overtake this power for a few more years.

              Considering that only the European NATO members have ~ 1500 fighters (F-16/35, EF, Rafale) and they are counted as one formation, then we are already in 4th place.


        4. bayard
          bayard 14 November 2021 22: 12
          +5
          Quote: Volkof
          250 crumbling MiG-29

          Much less in the ranks.
          Quote: Volkof
          about 250 Su-24M on decommissioning

          Strange wording. There were about so many of them, but 124 Su-34s have already partially replaced them, another 20 have been ordered in the same form, and in the near future there will be a new contract for the Su-34M (the first contract is expected for 80 units).
          Quote: Volkof
          and 200 simple old Su-27 ..

          They will be replaced by 76 ordered Su-57s (and possibly more), as well as a large order for the Su-30SM2 is expected (and the modernization of the already delivered Su-30SM to SM2).
          So they will try to keep the existing number, but such a number for a country of this size is clearly not enough. Objectively, it is necessary to additionally deploy about 10 new (revival of old) fighter regiments, as well as at least 10 fighter regiments for Naval Aviation - to reliably cover the naval base and stop threats from sea areas.
          But for now, at least replace the old aircraft with new ones.

          ... The MiG-35 apparently will not be purchased, they will wait for the Su-75 ... it seems they are really going to build it and offer it for the Aerospace Forces and for export.
          1. Volkof
            Volkof 14 November 2021 22: 32
            +1
            Strange wording. There were about so many of them, but 124 Su-34s have already partially replaced them, another 20 have been ordered in the same form, and in the near future there will be a new contract for the Su-34M (the first contract is expected for 80 units).

            What was replaced by what, and can you imagine how much the Su-24M was 10 years ago?
            There are no contracts! There is a contract for 21 Su-30SM for the Navy, we are 3 years old, only there are no planes yet ..
            Su-30SM2 should take off and start testing with a new engine and complex at the end of 2022 ... That's it! These effective managers just got it ...
            1. bayard
              bayard 14 November 2021 23: 47
              +1
              We were upset, but I hoped that 21 Su-30SM and 20 Su-34 were ordered because they were already waiting for the new Su-30SM2 and Su-34M.
              But the effective ones really got it.
              They then only wanted to slightly update the park, while reducing the total number, and from them the stupid people expect the restoration of defenses ...
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 15 November 2021 00: 49
                +5
                Have you forgotten the situation with the pilots?
                1. bayard
                  bayard 15 November 2021 01: 21
                  +3
                  And where should they come from, if they stopped recruiting for 5 years, and left only one.
                  And two posh academies were destroyed.
                  1. Alex777
                    Alex777 15 November 2021 01: 38
                    +2
                    So much for the limit on the number of aircraft ... Bye.
                    I read what my colleagues have written here.
                    Conclusion - we ourselves need the Su-75. For quantity. bully
                    And remotorization with the modernization of heavy
                    fighters plus the construction of the Su-57.
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 15 November 2021 02: 39
                      0
                      I talked about this for a long time (the limitation on the number of pilots), but the fact of the matter is that the one who then smashed aviation, military schools and academies, today rules the aircraft industry and continues to destroy aircraft enterprises.
                      Everything was as it was. And flight universities (VUZ) have been graduating young lieutenants for several years.
                      When did you stop recruiting, what did you count on?
                      Or "it just happened"?
                      We definitely need the Su-75. Including, in order to somehow balance the number of heavy and light fighters. And it would be very good to do this in the context of increasing the total number of fighters, because today we have catastrophically few of them. And with our geography, only aviation is capable of making a quick maneuver of forces to strengthen any direction. And it is a big mistake to build your aviation only or mainly on heavy fighters.
                      Unification is also of great importance - in terms of engines, avionics, technologies used, heavy and light fighters.
                      And I suspect that the Su-75 can be much more interesting both in procurement and in operation than the MiG-35 ... which seems to have EVERYTHING.
                      In addition, if desired, the Su-75 glider can be used as a base for a promising VTOL aircraft.
                      If the plans for the construction of prototypes and the launch into series are met, then the success of such an aircraft is inevitable.
                      But we need a more powerful engine. And the residents of Lyulkovo are not happy with their successes ...
                      It's time to recall the P579-300 and its variants.
                      You look and it will whip the Lyulkovites.
                      1. Kerensky
                        Kerensky 15 November 2021 06: 04
                        +3
                        Everything was as it was. And flight universities (VUZ) have been graduating young lieutenants for several years.
                        When did you stop recruiting, what did you count on?
                        Or "it just happened"?

                        I can’t help but insert my pennies.
                        Academy of videoconferencing, I communicate with "abitura", girls from the region. "And we need to enter and get married right away, the boy's dad, every colonel, will buy us an apartment."
                      2. Alex777
                        Alex777 15 November 2021 08: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: Kerensky
                        Academy of videoconferencing, I communicate with "abitura", girls from the region.

                        Sorrow ...
            2. mmaxx
              mmaxx 15 November 2021 08: 09
              0
              Su-30SM2 first flight February 2021. According to Wikipedia. But I think it's still March or April. Memory fails.
              1. Volkof
                Volkof 15 November 2021 13: 14
                -2
                You are a little confused. This is not a Su-30SM2 that took off with new engines, it is just a Su-30SM with enhanced reconnaissance and electronic warfare capabilities due to the use of suspended containers. He was also given the CM2 index at one time. But this is a simple plane with an old engine and sight and radar ...
                1. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 15 November 2021 20: 40
                  +1
                  Do you give it to me? I even worked a little with this plane. There is a rather complicated replacement of engines for a finished aircraft. You can break your head. Replaced.
        5. sportline
          sportline 14 November 2021 22: 43
          -2
          If I am not mistaken, contract purchases of aircraft continue. And new contracts are also being concluded. New aircraft are replacing old ones.
          MiG-31 platform for all time
        6. DMi
          DMi 15 November 2021 00: 17
          +1
          This song is outdated. New aircraft of all types arrive annually. Production plans are planned for 5 years ahead.
          And the Russian Federation cannot have thousands of fighters like the United States, and it does not need so many of them
          1. 1976AG
            1976AG 15 November 2021 02: 37
            0
            Quote: DMi
            This song is outdated. New aircraft of all types arrive annually. Production plans are planned for 5 years ahead.
            And the Russian Federation cannot have thousands of fighters like the United States, and it does not need so many of them

            How much do you need? We have no fewer enemies than the states, and our territory is much larger.
            1. DMi
              DMi 15 November 2021 23: 42
              -1
              Minimum. The minimum required to maintain production and technology. It seems to me that this is the logic that is being followed at the moment.
              A global or major war is impossible due to the presence of a nuclear club. And for small wars, even what we have is redundant.
              1. 1976AG
                1976AG 16 November 2021 00: 16
                0
                What is the logic behind this question ... What is a small war? This is a war with whom? A pot-bellied trifle by itself will not climb. And those who climb will not climb alone. Why then support production? Why so much crap if there is nuclear weapons. The military power of a state is determined by the totality of the types and types of the Armed Forces, their harmonious development, and not by the level of development of any one, albeit very powerful, type of weapon.
                1. DMi
                  DMi 16 November 2021 00: 40
                  0
                  For example, for an operation in Syria, more than 40 aircraft were not required at one time. For Georgia, too, there are very limited forces.
                  Technology and the army are needed, I don't seem to have argued otherwise. But inflating to the size of the armies of the United States or China is pointless. This is harmony at the moment.
                  1. 1976AG
                    1976AG 16 November 2021 12: 28
                    0
                    Quote: DMi
                    For example, for an operation in Syria, more than 40 aircraft were not required at one time. For Georgia, too, there are very limited forces.
                    Technology and the army are needed, I don't seem to have argued otherwise. But inflating to the size of the armies of the United States or China is pointless. This is harmony at the moment.

                    Well, you at least understand the difference, WE entered Syria. To fight the barmaley. Not to fight the Turks or the Americans, but for a counter-terrorist operation. For this, of course, it is enough. but the army is needed primarily for protection from an external aggressor. Not from the barmaley. And I was talking about who might attack us. Do you catch the difference? It would be possible to fight off with conventional weapons, but you decided that they were not particularly important to us and for this reason they turned out to be unable to resist the aggressor. As a result, they had to deliver nuclear strikes on their territory. Well, not only in their own way, but also in their own way. Bravo! Very harmonious.
                    Quote: DMi
                    Yes, and by the way, modern rearmament began with the strategic nuclear forces, as with the most important type of weapons. And at the moment, the emphasis is on him. Everything else is considered secondary, it is simply visible if you look at the trends from the outside and from a distance.

                    Yes, nuclear weapons provide global security. But today's threats are much more varied. And it is highly undesirable to use nuclear weapons on territories near Russia. And our enemy takes this into account. Just as we took this into account when we developed a plan for a tank attack into Western Europe. If the enemy penetrates deeply into our territory, nuclear weapons will no longer save us.
                    1. DMi
                      DMi 16 November 2021 15: 35
                      0
                      If the enemy has wedged in, then nuclear weapons are used on its territory and on its civilian infrastructure. And this, too, is all well understood. In addition, the Russian Federation has thousands of units of tactical atomic charges, in this aspect it is two orders of magnitude superior to any potential enemy.
                      But these are all theories, no one can attack us. For a big war, no one has any motivation or objective reasons. A war can arise only if some significant benefits can be obtained as a result of victory. Modern war will bring only colossal losses to everyone and nothing more. In public, you can pose as alpha males as much as you like and theatrically grind your teeth. In reality, no one even considers the possibility of a big war. local and hybrid conflicts, yes, as much as necessary. Nobody and nowhere will move divisions and fronts. This tool is not for modern civilization. Well, only China makes sense to squeeze out Taiwan and the Pacific Ocean. This war would make sense. Nothing will ever happen again) so that even the current number of equipment and people in the Russian army is excessive. So ... with a triple margin ... just in case) Well, what would the volume of production be for factories).
                2. DMi
                  DMi 16 November 2021 00: 46
                  0
                  Yes, and by the way, modern rearmament began with the strategic nuclear forces, as with the most important type of weapons. And at the moment, the emphasis is on him. Everything else is considered secondary, it is simply visible if you look at the trends from the outside and from a distance.
      4. 1976AG
        1976AG 15 November 2021 01: 07
        -1
        "PS Don't worry about it: EXPORT versions will still be exported ..."

        and even these versions are not yet in nature
    3. Voltsky
      Voltsky 14 November 2021 21: 30
      0
      is it better not to sell anything, or even better to self-isolate like China or Japan at one time?
      and in general it is necessary to have a snack, you can read information about the engine of the same f-35 on the Internet and find out what is the latest for drying -> the answer to the one that is on the f-35, and not "no analogs"
    4. Bar1
      Bar1 14 November 2021 23: 43
      -2
      Quote: yfast
      We'll sell the newest engine, of course, along with the coolest radar?


      what do you think the name on neshem is for whom, at whom will he shoot?
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 15 November 2021 04: 20
        -4
        Quote: Bar1
        Quote: yfast
        We'll sell the newest engine, of course, along with the coolest radar?


        what do you think the name on neshem is for whom, at whom will he shoot?

        what is the caliber of the radar? rate of fire?
    5. EvilLion
      EvilLion 16 November 2021 08: 15
      +1
      You have no new engines in Kiev.
  2. OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 14 November 2021 17: 53
    0
    Checkmate fighter will be equipped with AL-41F1 engine

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/202111141636-gu2WQ.html
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 14 November 2021 17: 58
      +10
      They are beginning to put it on the Su30SM in large quantities ... and on the example of Su57, replacement is a question of serial production of Product 30 ...
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 14 November 2021 18: 01
        +3
        There are no questions about the AL-41 engine. Excellent production engine. It is reasonable to unify drying on it.
        Apparently there are critical problems with product 30, there has been no news for a long time. Even before serial production, you need to bring it up. So closer to the 30s, we will see him on production fighters.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 14 November 2021 18: 07
          +6
          Al41 even in Russia is not old ... we still have Al21 and Al31 flies like a shaft ...
          1. mvg
            mvg 14 November 2021 21: 25
            0
            Al21

            This is generally the Su-24 ... Let's just say that we have D-30F1 (MiG-31 and Il-76/78), RD-93 (MiG-29) and AL-31 (Su-27/30) flying here. Which of them should be changed to the AL-41F1, which does not rise everywhere in terms of weight and dimensions. Therefore, the AL-41F1, not AL-41
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 15 November 2021 14: 28
              -1
              - Su24 is old already ...... it just needs to be changed after the old ones are out.
              - Su30-34-35 probably, following the example of the Americans, can be combined into one conditional Su30XXX with Al41 engines and the latest version of avionics and radar ...
              - The MiG 31 (if speed is not critical) will completely replace some version of the Su57 ... its radar and armament are superior to that of the MiG ...
        2. sportline
          sportline 15 November 2021 15: 31
          0
          I don't think there are problems. Newborn engine. It is not known how he can behave. And on 75m it is only one - there is no second. If something goes wrong, then immediately total. They will work it out, check it at 57m and then put it on the 75th with modernization.
  3. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 14 November 2021 17: 56
    +3
    I'm just wondering if from Sukhoi's assortment: Su34, Su30sm, Su35S, Su57 ... .. No one has been removed, then where and how many pieces are they going to make Su75?
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 14 November 2021 18: 01
      +1
      Quote: Zaurbek
      I'm only wondering if from the Sukhoi range: Su34, Su30sm, Su35S, Su57

      do you know how many units are contracted?
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 14 November 2021 18: 06
        +3
        4 pieces… ..and 4 pieces per year Su57 is that enough?
        1. Errr
          Errr 14 November 2021 18: 42
          +9
          4 Su-57s are being transferred to the troops only this year. In 2022-2027, they will be equipped with a whole squadron (12 units each) annually. Every month by plane is not bad at all.
          1. mark1
            mark1 14 November 2021 18: 50
            +3
            Quote: Herrr
            Every month by plane is not bad at all.

            I agree - "+" but I want so much at least 2 per month ...
          2. Letun
            Letun 14 November 2021 18: 50
            -1
            Quote: Herrr
            Every month by plane is not bad at all.

            Are you trying to convince yourself?
            1. bayard
              bayard 14 November 2021 22: 19
              +2
              No, these are announced plans. In the last photographs of the assembly line in Komsomolsk, the Su-57 are in a row, so maybe they will come out on 12 pieces. annually.
              Moreover, the purchases of the Su-35S have already been curtailed.
              1. EvilLion
                EvilLion 16 November 2021 08: 23
                0
                Su-35, like, 28 pieces still have to be delivered.
                1. bayard
                  bayard 16 November 2021 15: 51
                  0
                  There, in 2020, there was an order for another 30 pieces. until 2024 or 2025 - 6 pcs. per year on average. Mainly to support production. But these are very small volumes for such production, and a number of contracts have been thwarted (Indonesia, Algeria ... silence with Iran).
          3. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 14 November 2021 20: 01
            0
            And where to make the Su75? And the Su35? Will Su35 production decline?
            1. bayard
              bayard 14 November 2021 22: 21
              0
              Quote: Zaurbek
              Will Su35 production decline?

              It has already been reduced, and purchases for videoconferencing are being phased out / curtailed.
          4. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 14 November 2021 20: 09
            +12
            "Every month by plane is not bad at all." are tears, not a series. Just think - a regiment in three years. I saw when they rolled out one car a day. I am not agitating for this madness, I just have something to compare with.
          5. Grandfather
            Grandfather 15 November 2021 04: 24
            -1
            Quote: Herrr
            Every month by plane is not bad at all.

            very bad.
        2. Flooding
          Flooding 14 November 2021 18: 45
          -2
          Quote: Zaurbek
          4 pieces… ..and 4 pieces per year Su57 is that enough?

          the question of whether
          Quote: Zaurbek
          where and how many units are they going to make the Su75?

          have you disappeared?
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 14 November 2021 18: 37
      +4
      This particular plant is now sitting on bread and water. Su-30K - died completely, losing the race on board from Irkut. Even the paltry price did not help. The last reserves were bought by the budget in the role of twin pairs for the Su-35, the updated Su-27.

      A similar story with the Su-35 - Indonesia refused, fortunately, the budget bought back the reserves, with an additional contract for Max. However, after it, nothing will happen for sure.

      As a result, only the Su-57 is produced steadily with the prospect at the plant. 3-4 Su-57 year, a plant of 12 thousand workers cannot be fed, or rather it is possible to feed it, but then the price will go to the level of 1 to 100 F35.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 14 November 2021 20: 14
        0
        For all this, it is necessary to establish the production of civilian vehicles. Nobody will inflate the army to the size of the USSR. MC21 and SSJ are our everything
        1. bayard
          bayard 14 November 2021 22: 32
          +1
          Quote: Zaurbek
          MC21 and SSJ are our everything

          The West unanimously refused to supply us with components.
          The MS-21 has 50% of those (imported).
          The Super-Jet has up to 70%.
          So the production of what was being produced also stopped.
          As for MS-21 - there was a stock of components for 5 sides, so they seem to be assembled. Further - everything.
          There is talk of attempts at import substitution, but ... at the same time, the Aviapribor Voronezh plant was destroyed with a firm hand.
          And in Komsomolsk, no one will assemble civilian airliners instead of fighters.
          True, they wanted to do this in Irkutsk - to kill the production of the Su-34.
          1. Crane
            Crane 15 November 2021 21: 28
            0
            the Aviapribor plant in Voronezh was destroyed.
            =====
            There is no need to lie. Destroyed ...
            1. bayard
              bayard 15 November 2021 23: 26
              -1
              Alive?
              I'm seriously interested. I was informed about the liquidation of production and the transfer of production of part of the nomenclature to Ulyanovsk.
              1. Osipov9391
                Osipov9391 16 November 2021 00: 00
                0
                Here is this topic about the Voronezh plant: https://vestivrn.ru/news/2020/03/16/spasti-nelzya-pochemu-v-voronezhe-zakroyut-unikalnyi-zavod/
                The nomenclature has been partially moved to Ulyanovsk. But there, too, not everything is smooth.
                1. bayard
                  bayard 16 November 2021 00: 15
                  -1
                  perhaps a misunderstanding due to the fact that I named the plant "Aviapribor" and not "Electropribor".
                  Or maybe because Kot-Bayun believes that if 70% were fired and the entire military nomenclature was removed, this does not mean that the company was killed.
                  In truth, capitalism destroys everything it touches.
                  1. Osipov9391
                    Osipov9391 16 November 2021 02: 29
                    0
                    There is no enterprise. His website is closed, the military representative has moved out, the legal entity is in the process of liquidation.
                    The premises will be sold as a shopping center or something else. Although no one will go to it.
                    We already have a panic in our region because of these codes. Those who have not given injections can only get into a grocery store and a pharmacy.
                    That's it.
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 16 November 2021 15: 43
                      -1
                      Quote: Osipov9391
                      We already have a panic in our region because of these codes. Those who have not given injections can only get into a grocery store and a pharmacy.
                      That's it.

                      It's sad, but they warned about it even at the beginning of this madness. All the hysteria for the injection.
                      1. Osipov9391
                        Osipov9391 16 November 2021 18: 35
                        0
                        And what are the common people to do? Require new deputies not to introduce this or is it pointless?
                      2. bayard
                        bayard 16 November 2021 18: 58
                        0
                        It doesn't make sense. Everyone will have to take care of themselves.
                  2. Osipov9391
                    Osipov9391 16 November 2021 02: 37
                    0
                    In St. Petersburg there is also a similar Techpribor. They made fuel metering systems for all aircraft. And a similar shadow now hangs over him ... Serdyukov and Chemezov.
                    Although he is no longer the same as before. Whether they will make a STR for the Su-75 or have already done it, I don’t know.
                    For the Su-57 and Su-35S (KUTR) they have been making since 2009.
                    There are no indicators.
                    On the Su-34 (STR7-5A) and Su-30SM (STR7-5MV) digital indicators.
                    On the Su-30M2, Su-33, Su-27SM, the indicators are electromechanical.
                    The latter are very expensive (up to a million apiece) because of the palladium potted potentiometers.
                    Well, the corruption component is always included in the cost of the Moscow office.
                    As a Nizhny Novgorod "Heat exchanger", ZSH-7APN helmets are sold at 280 thousand apiece.
                    And Orekhovsky "Respirator" oxygen masks for 50 thousand rubles apiece.
                    Therefore, pilots often wear out what has been in warehouses since Soviet times !!!!!
          2. EvilLion
            EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 14
            0
            Update the manual.
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 13
        +1
        When you stop writing nonsense, KnAAZ is loaded with Su-35 for Egypt and its native Ministry of Defense, and it is possible that these contracts are limiting the launch of the Su-57 into a large series, although it is possible that the subcontractors, and while they are solving problems, the plant is doing spent Su-35.

        Su-30K nafig is not needed.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 16 November 2021 14: 07
          +1
          Contracts for the Su-35S from 2005 and 2009 are closed - 98 aircraft have been delivered.
          Due to the Indonesian refusal, another 30 Su-35S were ordered until 2025 in 2020 (that is, 6 vehicles per year).

          The Chinese contract is closed.
          Indonesia refusal. Algeria refusal.
          Egypt - 24-26 Su-35S.

          At the same time, the peak production at KnAAZ was 20 Su-35s per year in 2018. In 2020, only 8 for myself + 1 for Egypt were built.

          So - about loaded, this is very, very conditional, which I wrote, the capacity there is free.
    3. venik
      venik 14 November 2021 19: 57
      +1
      Quote: Zaurbek
      I'm just wondering if from Sukhoi's assortment: Su34, Su30sm, Su35S, Su57 ... .. No one has been removed, then where and how many pieces are they going to make Su75?

      =========
      Well, firstly, so far we are talking about only a few (most likely - 3) prototypes! Secondly, are you SURE that the capacities of the factories are already loaded at 100%? Secondly: if it comes to serial production, it will not be soon - not earlier than 2026! And during this time, "Dryers" (of the listed models) are still riveted .....
      Well, to be honest, the most realistic candidate for a "flight" (from mass production) out of the ones listed by you is the Su-30SM. The car is certainly very good, but it is no longer "the latest squeak of fashion", and videoconferencing is already quite saturated with them. With a good modernization, they will serve for more than a dozen years, but .... already, as it were, "not quite" what is needed ..... Well, the "Duckling" - too .... I think that in 5-6 years their number will be sufficient to close the niche ..... So - there will be free capacities ..... There would be enough money!
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 14 November 2021 20: 10
        +2
        Each plant made a maximum of 15-17 pieces per year ... ... ... MiGs were made in large quantities ... ... if they are unified in terms of units, then more can be done. But now we have Su34-Su30sm-Su35S, and in the USA F15EX ... ... one
      2. bayard
        bayard 14 November 2021 23: 19
        0
        Quote: venik
        the most realistic candidate for "flight" (from serial production) is the Su-30SM.

        Actually, the launch of the Su-30SM2 is now being prepared - with the AL-41F-1S, Irbis and other buns from the Su-35S.
        In addition, it was decided to arm the Navy with the Su-30SM \ SM2.
        Quote: venik
        Well, "Duckling" too.

        And what was it for?
        It is expected just about Su-34M, which are going to be ordered to purchase for the videoconferencing at least 80 pieces.
        And it is quite possible that its base will be taken for a new MRA aircraft.
        But in Komsomolsk, the capacity is just there.
        1. Osipov9391
          Osipov9391 14 November 2021 23: 47
          0
          Yes, they will not do them soon, not the first nor the second. No, well, they will still be in production for some time.
          They will be exported to the CSTO countries. Something else VKS / Navy will receive several dozen. And that's all.
          The possibilities of their modernization have been exhausted, and the Army's interest in them is disappearing
          Su-35S, Su-57, and Su-75. This is what will probably be done only in Komsomolsk.
          Irkut and NAPO will be occupied by MS-21 and will most likely become "civilian" aircraft factories.
          For example, it was believed that the Su-30M2 and Su-27SMK will be in production until 2025 approximately.
          But the interest and export orders were gone. Aviation avionics made in Ukraine are hopelessly outdated - this is
          mid 80s whenever possible.
          1. bayard
            bayard 15 November 2021 00: 03
            0
            Quote: Osipov9391
            Yes, they will not do them soon, not the first nor the second.

            Quote: Osipov9391
            The possibilities of their modernization have been exhausted, and the Army's interest in them is disappearing
            Su-35S, Su-57, and Su-75. This is what will probably be done only in Komsomolsk.

            So the Su-30SM2, this is the Su-35 in the Su-30SM glider. Double, and therefore - multifunctional.
            Su-34M (and modernization of those previously released to this level) - 80 pcs. in order to bring the total number to 220 - 224 pcs. and replace in the shelves of the Su-24M.
            But the Su-35S looks like everything - they turn it down. Instead, the Su-57. And so it is more correct.
            Quote: Osipov9391
            Irkut and NAPO will be occupied by MS-21 and will most likely become "civilian" aircraft factories.

            To do this, it is necessary to start mass production of the MS-21, and this is impossible. request
            It contains 50% of imported components, but they were denied to us.
            To wait for import substitution is like Makovkin's conspiracy. And the fact that now it seems like they began to collect - there was a stock for 5 sets. Here are 5 pieces. and collect, so that the line does not stand and do so that at least something.
            And our import substitution is oh so unhurried ...
            Quote: Osipov9391
            But the interest and export orders were gone.

            Egypt quietly buys, negotiations are underway with Iran - he is going to buy from us, India has agreed to modernize the entire fleet of its Su-30MKI to the level of SM2 \ Su-35S ...

            But the itch of "optimization" is such an itch ... all the more so since Serdyukov rules in aviation now.
            1. Osipov9391
              Osipov9391 15 November 2021 00: 10
              +2
              N001 and N001VEP what was done at the Khmelnitsky plant "Novator" for the Su-27SMK and Su-30M2 can it rightly be called a long-obsolete miracle?
              TsVM Ts100 for them, it seems, was made in Kamensk-Uralsky.
              There are papers on these things. There there is an element base .... the end of the 70s! Chips 133, 122, 130 and other primitive TTLSh series. Even CMOS is practically nonexistent.
              And this digital computer eats a lot of energy, weighs more than 30 kg, is blown with air through the air conditioning ducts.
              And its capabilities, memory and performance are at the level of the game console of the early 90s.
              True, N001VEP has a bypass channel and its digital computer is more perfect. But the essence does not change.
              1. bayard
                bayard 15 November 2021 01: 10
                0
                The old Su-27 and Su-30M2 will be written off, replaced with the future Su-57 and Su-30SM2, no one will modernize this old stuff.
                Unless on the cheap or to help someone else.
                1. Osipov9391
                  Osipov9391 15 November 2021 02: 00
                  0
                  They are not old. 2010-2017 years of release. Su-30M2 in the sense. And there are only a little more than a dozen new Su-27SM3s, and they are at the Crimean airbase. 2010-2011 years of release.
                  With the same radars. They have a 30-year glider resource.
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 15 November 2021 02: 44
                    0
                    These can be upgraded, at least for avionics. Either find buyers for them, and buy yourself a Su-30SM2 (it seems that the Su-35 will no longer be purchased for oneself).
                    And I like the second sentence more.
                2. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 15 November 2021 07: 59
                  0
                  So they are already modernizing on the sly
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 15 November 2021 13: 55
                    0
                    So far, we hear about the modernization of the Su-30SM to the Su-30SM2 (engines AL-41F-1S, Irbis instead of Bars, and the entire avionics complex from the Su-35S).
                    Nothing has been heard about the modernization of the Su-27SM3 and Su-30M2. There are not many such planes, it is the redeemed by the Ministry of Defense the backlog of the undelivered to China, when the latter threw us. Yes, and there are few of them in the ranks to bother like that.
                    It is easier to find a buyer, and to buy a normal Su-30SM2 for yourself.
                    Moreover, in addition to such purchases and modernization of the entire fleet of its Su-30SMs, the entire fleet of Indian Su-30MKIs will also be modernized. And perhaps in this form they will go to Iran (negotiations are underway now).
                    By the way, for the speed of deliveries, it would be possible to Iran and offer these Su-30M2 and Su-27SM3 - from the availability. And since they have enough resources, over time it is possible to prepare modernization for them. We have several dozen such aircraft. Such a castling could be interesting for them and for us.
                    1. Osipov9391
                      Osipov9391 15 November 2021 17: 51
                      -1
                      Nobody will buy them. Even the third world countries are no longer interested in them, therefore they stopped producing new ones at the plant.
                      And then difficulties with maintaining a spare will also arise.
                      Such things are usually given to some academies, schools, etc. as benefits.
                      Or they are transferred to Akhtubinsk or Zhukovsky as LL. The last one has to be passed on for a long time. There, in fact, one Su-30 Kvochura remained at the age of 29. Everything else has not been flying for a long time, taken out of service or crashed.

                      And also China threw us with the production of the Su-33, having bought Apakidze's car from Ukraine at the price of scrap.
                      And Russia will continue to supply titanium to the aircraft industry and the US military-industrial complex. Today the news is from Dubai.
                      1. bayard
                        bayard 15 November 2021 18: 20
                        -1
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        And Russia will continue to supply titanium to the aircraft industry and the US military-industrial complex. Today the news is from Dubai.

                        If your aircraft industry is so deep ... so deep, then what remains to be done with the production, which was built specifically for export deliveries to SPD-35SHA and the EU.
                        There was hope for the revival of the domestic aircraft industry and the reorientation of this production for their own internal needs. One restart of the Il-76MD90A production could provide good demand for its own titanium, because Ulyanovsk had coped with the task, such an aircraft could also be exported. And it's good to go.
                        If MS-21 was launched into production, then even more so - after all, they were planned for 72 pieces. to release a year.
                        And if the Il-96 was added in an updated form, and in the future - with two PD-35s ... Il-112 and Il-114 ... Il-276 or whatever was predicted instead of An-12 ...
                        There was a chance.
                        And in the event of restarting its aviation industry, it was possible to repay the "partners" in full - by refusing to supply aviation titanium. And then I would have looked at Boeing and Airbus ....
                        But nobody wanted that.
                        And that's the whole reason.
            2. mmaxx
              mmaxx 15 November 2021 08: 02
              0
              By MS. What's flying in Zhukovsky? Cartoons "Soyuzmultfilm" stoll? One more will fly by the end of the year.
              1. bayard
                bayard 15 November 2021 14: 49
                -1
                These are experimental aircraft, one of them with a PD-14. But today there is nothing to start with SERIAL production - we are completely denied import components. And there are 21% of them in MS-50.
                We do not produce any analogues of our own, aircraft instrument factories and other domestic contractors have been killed in recent years. So, if it works out, import substitution will take a long time, difficult and very expensive. Who (!) Is it all to develop and create their own production? Who trained these specialists? If we were supposed to buy everything at the international bazaar? And they sacredly BELIEVE that everything will be sold to us with joy and readiness, raising a competitor for themselves? yes
                Why do you think these effective managers first destroyed our aircraft industry, destroyed breakthrough developments in engine building, revolutionary in aerodynamics? And when she achieved irreversible success in this sacred business for herself, all of a sudden ... they began to attend to the restoration of the domestic ... aircraft industry.
                Yes, not with what is needed and what else we can, but ... from the "Superjet", entrusting him with the sculpting of the Sukhoi Design Bureau, which, of course, is a dock and luminary in the civil aircraft industry ... especially since the main ... CONSULTANT of the project invited an employee American Boeing ...
                So this is how he advised?
                To first close and destroy aircraft factories, and then ... build a new one for the Jet-Super?
                So that 70% (!!!) of its components are IMPORTED !!!
                Maybe MS-21 is better?
                Yes . yes By 20% - he had 50% of the components from the enemy supposed. lol
                And even when it was already clear that they would be thrown with cooperation ... did you not bother to order and purchase these components ahead of time at least a few dozen sets? fool
                After all, it has been several years since the automatic assembly line for the MC-21 has been assembled and put in full readiness for launch !!! fool angry AND WORTH !!!
                WITHOUT CAUSES !!!
                So here's a question for these hands-drivers - in these SEVERAL YEARS it was possible to purchase components for the launch of this production at the warehouse ??
                Or hoped to work in a fashionable way - "from the wheels" ??
                Who will let you do that?
                And they weren't allowed. yes bully
                Oops ... unexpected ... request repeat

                Is it really there clinical go .... "wise men" rule? smile
                Or is that why they rule that way in order to get exactly the desired result?
                And in everything.
                Quote: mmaxx
                Cartoons "Soyuzmultfilm" stoll?

                No, this is a tough German "movie for very grown-ups" and the quiet joy of a "job done right".
                hi
                1. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 15 November 2021 21: 04
                  +1
                  Something did not notice that the line is standing. We only have time to assemble the fuselages. There are problems with the wing and PKI, no question. But it doesn't smell like a catastrophe yet. Although the sanctions hit hard. But you won't give our smart guys in the muzzles - don't scratch yourself. About everything has disappeared for now, or sooner or later. The West has forgotten how to do it. You need to beat so that you lay down. And if you can’t do that, then it’s better not to hit. And we didn’t go to bed.
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 15 November 2021 23: 12
                    -1
                    Quote: mmaxx
                    Something did not notice that the line is standing. We only have time to assemble the fuselages.

                    Fuselages, that's good, but what about the components?
                    Imported?
                    For there was information that the stocks of imported carbon fiber (for the wings) were a set for 5 liners. And for other components, the warehouse stock was not much more.
                    But the fact that the line still rivets the fuselages is good, at least it will touch on them.
                    And something is not heard about the testing of a wing made of domestic carbon fiber. Not in the know, were you? How did you go? Is everything okay with carbon fiber from Rosatom?
                    And yet there is a high probability that the assembled fuselages will wait a long time for their filling.
                    But if they cope with import substitution, it will be a big victory.
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 18
          -1
          Objectively, the Su-30SM2 is not a very clear thing, why is it needed if there is a Su-35. Or it will no longer be a Su-30, but a two-seater Su-35, and there the very ideology of building avionics is different. Or maybe there is not enough capacity for the Su-35, but on the Irkut, on the contrary, there is a surplus.

          Fleet figs, not planes. Drowned.
          1. bayard
            bayard 16 November 2021 16: 09
            -1
            Quote: EvilLion
            Objectively, the Su-30SM2 is not a very clear thing, why is it needed if there is a Su-35.

            Firstly, India wants such modernization, and it has the largest fleet of such aircraft in the world.
            Secondly, the Su-30SM avionics are already morally outdated, therefore, in the presence of a more advanced one, God himself ordered such modernization to be carried out.
            Third, unification. At least in terms of engines and avionics, this is already critically important for domestic VKS. For this purpose, they do it. And through such modernization, they are going to drive out the entire existing fleet of Su-30SM and Su-34.
            Quote: EvilLion
            Fleet figs, not planes. Drowned.

            Is that how you decided?
            Or do sailors command our fleets (except for the Northern Fleet, which itself became a district)? All fleets are subordinate to districts, another thing is that naval aviation pilots (for flights and combat use over the sea surface / non-oriented terrain) must be specially trained. These fighters are needed to cover our naval base and naval forces in their reach. And the Su-35 is less desirable here than the two-seater Su-30SM \ SM2. So it was decided in the Ministry of Defense and the decision has been approved for several years already.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Barberry25
      Barberry25 14 November 2021 21: 09
      -1
      it is quite possible that we are talking about further purchases to replace the su-27, or to replace the mig-29, we have about 250 boards required for replacement ... quite possible
  4. Thrifty
    Thrifty 14 November 2021 18: 00
    -22
    Who needs it in 2026? Equipment is ordered and bought today, for example, due to high demand, the supply is negotiated after some time. But, here is only a prototype, which did not rise into the air, and no one will wait so long, Chinese crafts will buy. Due to the fact that the deadlines are postponed, and we are losing contracts for weapons. We are losing the competition because of our sluggishness, we should have created such an aircraft as a competition for F35 7 years ago ...
    1. svp67
      svp67 14 November 2021 18: 03
      +4
      Quote: Thrifty
      Who needs it in 2026?

      First of all to us, Russia.
      Quote: Thrifty
      But, here is only a prototype, which did not rise into the air, and no one will wait so long - Chinese crafts will buy
      Well, they still do not have a "stone flower" and it is not a fact that it will be released by this time, especially since they have a twin-engine plane
      1. Serg Kam
        Serg Kam 14 November 2021 23: 17
        -2
        Well, they still do not have a "stone flower" and it is not a fact that it will be released by this time

        The JF-17 flies quite successfully and is produced in more than 200 units. And it has already been tested in real air combat.
        With a Russian engine and Chinese electronics (and in electronics they overtook us - just look at what we write to VO through) the plane turned out to be successful and cheap for them.
        The poor will buy the JF-17, the rich the F35.
        Of course, India will remain (which does not want to buy from China) and the domestic market
        1. svp67
          svp67 15 November 2021 10: 08
          0
          Quote: SergKam
          The JF-17 flies quite successfully and is produced in more than 200 units.

          But the J-31 does not come out
          1. Serg Kam
            Serg Kam 15 November 2021 10: 57
            -2
            J-31 and not intended for export.
            And the JF-17 is a competitor for the Su-75, and Chinese crafts ALREADY buy well
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 21
              0
              Do not write nonsense, JF-17 bought only packs, and then not from a good life, but from a very bad one.
              1. Serg Kam
                Serg Kam 16 November 2021 13: 46
                -2
                Yes. And also Nigeria and Myanmar have already bought it. And the agreement was concluded by Azerbaijan, Iran, Argentina (by the way, instead of the MiG-35)
                https://avia.pro/news/argentina-otkazalas-ot-pokupki-rossiyskih-mig-35-vybrav-pakistanskie-jf-17
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 21
          0
          Comparing the JF-17 and the Su-75 is like comparing the Zaporozhets with the new BMW.
          1. Serg Kam
            Serg Kam 16 November 2021 13: 49
            -1
            Have you heard a proverb about a bird in hand and a crane in the sky?
            Let's wait for a serial copy, and not show off the skin of an unkilled bear.
    2. kot423
      kot423 14 November 2021 18: 09
      +4
      Quote: Thrifty
      Equipment is ordered and bought today, for example, due to high demand, the delivery is negotiated after a certain time.

      For you, there is a great answer in the previous thread about this summer:
      "carstorm 11 (Dmitry) Today, 15:32
      +5

      You tell the states that the penguin was selling) This is marketing. Promotion of the product to the market. If you wait for a production car for the presentation, then you will sell about ... zero. "
      1. Momento
        Momento 14 November 2021 19: 32
        -4
        Something cool marketing started. lazar show, etc. so even the superjet was not marketed. and ms-21 ...
        if it doesn’t work, will it be a shame?
        1. kot423
          kot423 14 November 2021 19: 37
          +2
          Quote: Momento
          if nothing works, it will be a shame

          Heh. Penguin mattresses still have 800+ flaws, more than 10 critical ones, they are not steamed. Although it was promoted better before the release. Do you think this is not a shame? And given our school of aircraft construction, I don’t think we will have something like that, yes, maybe more time for fine-tuning, but the whole world knows about this that Russians do not sell raw bullshit at the price of gold by weight.
          1. Serg Kam
            Serg Kam 14 November 2021 23: 22
            -2
            Disadvantages are revealed only during operation.
            If you make one exhibition sample and take it to exhibitions, of course, there will be no shortcomings.
            And the same Su-27 - from the first serial (81 years), before being put into service (90 years) 9 years have passed, all this time, deficiencies were identified and eliminated.
            And the Soviet aircraft building school was the world leader.
            1. kot423
              kot423 14 November 2021 23: 56
              +1
              Quote: SergKam
              And the same Su-27 - from the first serial (81 years), before being put into service (90 years) 9 years have passed, all this time, deficiencies were identified and eliminated.

              Would you like to say that raw SU-27s were riveted for 700+ units, and even sold to then loyal statesmen? Ha-ha 3 times. Here is the difference - the Russians never substituted their allies, i.e. we didn’t sell raw stuff that until you kick it, it won’t fly.
              1. Serg Kam
                Serg Kam 15 November 2021 00: 07
                -1
                The first prototype of the Su-27 in a serial configuration, the T10-7, entered flight tests in the spring of 1981.

                Tests of the Su-27 under various programs continued for several more years. The Su-27 was adopted by a government decree of August 23, 1990, only after all the main shortcomings identified in the tests were eliminated. By this time, the Su-27 had already been in operation for 5 years.

                https://www.sukhoi.org/products/earlier/251/

                This is not me saying, but the Sukhoi Corporation.
                Do you accuse Sukhoi of lying? Will you continue to ha-ha-nod?
              2. EvilLion
                EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 25
                -1
                The Su-27 was allowed for export by a direct decree of Yeltsin, and only because the money was needed. The USSR did not sell such equipment to anyone, it is strange that the MiG-25 was sold at all.
            2. EvilLion
              EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 23
              -1
              The Su-27 went into production in the 85th, if not in the 86th.
              1. Serg Kam
                Serg Kam 16 November 2021 13: 52
                -2
                At 85 he went to the unit.
                And the first serial flew in 81
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 23
          -1
          There are investments for a penny, most likely, and the customer already exists. Sukhoi does not run the risk of losing seriously, but it is quite possible to win big.
    3. d1975
      d1975 14 November 2021 19: 39
      -1
      Well, what do you want, effective managers. I think maybe we need to do more shifts or expand the plant and make another one, and not put money under the mattress. Make a state-owned plant, there is no mate or something else.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 26
        -2
        One problem is that the Russian Air Force does not need more than 40-50 combat aircraft of tactical aviation per year, and for this it is possible to have 1-2 factories, and not 4, as it is now.
    4. Roman Efremov
      Roman Efremov 14 November 2021 20: 39
      -2
      In 2026, there will already be other buyers (let's hope that they will) - whoever needs an aircraft in the coming years, of course, will not wait for the Su-75.
  5. svp67
    svp67 14 November 2021 18: 02
    +7
    As previously stated in the UAC, the fighter will make its first flight in 2023, prototypes will appear in 2024-2025, an initial batch in 2026, and serial deliveries of the new fighter will begin in 2026-2027.
    Who writes such news? That is, the first flight will take place before the appearance of the prototype? Wonders
    1. SHURUM -BURUM
      SHURUM -BURUM 14 November 2021 18: 14
      +2
      Maybe these will be just copies for flight tests? The transition, finally, from pavilion plywood to prototypes capable of showing flight? It would be logical and understandable if this was noted in the title.
      1. svp67
        svp67 14 November 2021 18: 16
        +6
        Quote: SHURUM-BURUM
        Maybe these will be just copies for flight tests?

        Which are EXPERIENCED ...
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 14 November 2021 18: 40
      +1
      Most likely 23 years old - this is a naked flight prototype. Well, like T-50-1.
      24-25 are already prototypes for testing. That is, already with radar, equipment that can work out weapons, stealth, etc.
      26 years old - an installation batch, already a serial.
    3. Momento
      Momento 14 November 2021 19: 35
      +2
      even all commercial aircraft have been delayed for a year or five lately.
      and here all the same, not only the plane, but also a new radar, new software. new weapons will almost certainly be needed.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 27
        0
        Armament from the Su-57, no one else will do, it makes no sense.
  6. Bogalex
    Bogalex 14 November 2021 18: 06
    +3
    That is, translating into a simple and understandable Russian language, behind the loud words "the construction of several at once has begun ..." ? That is, there is still no sample of weapons as such, and we again take credit for the intention to create, test, adopt and equip our Air Force someday ...
    To tell the truth, for a long time I want to read about the results, and not about Napoleon's plans.
    1. svp67
      svp67 14 November 2021 18: 17
      +2
      Quote: Bogalex
      Is it just the beginning of the assembly of prototypes as part of the development work?

      Well, for testing, you need several aircraft, something will be tested in the air, and something on the ground, in parallel.
    2. mmaxx
      mmaxx 15 November 2021 21: 07
      0
      They showed plywood. Here are Napoleon's plans. Chapay also explained everything on potatoes. laughing
      But he beat the whites. laughing
  7. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 14 November 2021 18: 30
    +1
    they wrote that there was an anchor order for the car
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 30
      0
      The Chukchi do not read, the Chukchi only whine.
  8. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 14 November 2021 18: 50
    -3
    There is no motor for the Su-57. But on the basis of what are we collecting these?
    1. Errr
      Errr 14 November 2021 20: 16
      +2
      AL-41F1. https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/12919371
  9. Cowbra
    Cowbra 14 November 2021 18: 55
    -9
    Let's see. The main thing is not like mattresses - they have already collected 5 B-21s, they cannot lift a single one into the air
  10. zwlad
    zwlad 14 November 2021 19: 17
    +1
    All right.
    A short time passed after the presentation to the announcement of the assembly of the first copies.
    Let's wait what will come of thisoo.
  11. faterdom
    faterdom 14 November 2021 20: 01
    +2
    The cost of such an aircraft can be his trump card.
    In the west, for such performance characteristics, even with a large series, the price is very prohibitive. And they cannot do anything with it downward.
    It means that they will shit through the press and the State Department, as well as sanctioned blackmail. And here is a small paradox - they have exhausted almost all of these resources, and quite in vain ...
    Like Europe against the Old Man - they made sanctions on empty fantasies and lies, but now there is a crisis - and there is nothing to cover it with.
    1. Pentacle
      Pentacle 14 November 2021 20: 34
      -1
      Performance characteristics in the newspaper are worthless. An airplane can't fly yet.
      1. faterdom
        faterdom 14 November 2021 22: 37
        0
        Do you want to say that fighters do not know how to make in our country? Or do they not correspond to the declared performance characteristics, unlike some who are not recommended to fly supersonic?
        1. Pentacle
          Pentacle 15 November 2021 21: 41
          -2
          I have already said what I wanted. There is no plane, maybe. does not fly. And the fact that it does not fly is not an airplane, it is a model. That's all I wanted to say.
  12. ViacheslavS
    ViacheslavS 14 November 2021 20: 19
    -2
    It's very cool if the journalists don't run in front of the locomotive.
    1. Runner2022
      Runner2022 14 November 2021 21: 13
      0
      Judging by what serious talk about him began in the world, they do not run
  13. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 14 November 2021 20: 23
    0
    So fast? Is it really so much in demand?
  14. Pentacle
    Pentacle 14 November 2021 20: 30
    0
    Until the fighter is put into service, no one will buy it. Maximum will sign a non-binding agreement of intent. Like as soon as possible. In the meantime, he does not even know how to fly from the word in any way.
  15. Shahno
    Shahno 14 November 2021 20: 36
    +1
    Well done ... But you do not know how to conduct business. This is not marketing, this is a bazaar, sorry.
    And so no one except Nigeria will buy it
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Barberry25
      Barberry25 14 November 2021 22: 40
      0
      they are waiting for you in the marketing department of the UAC ..
  16. Runner2022
    Runner2022 14 November 2021 20: 44
    -1
    Lord, this is wonderful) We are waiting to see you in flight!)
    1. Pentacle
      Pentacle 14 November 2021 21: 06
      -5
      Zhdun began to wait ...
  17. Serge-667
    Serge-667 14 November 2021 20: 58
    -2
    As previously stated in the UAC, the first flight of the fighter will take place in 2023, prototypes will appear in 2024-2025, the installation batch in 2026


    And he did not say how it is, the first flight in the 23rd year, and prototypes in the 24-25th?
    I understand that Soyuzmultfilm has received another order?
    1. Runner2022
      Runner2022 14 November 2021 21: 11
      -6
      Some, looking at Soyuzmultfilm, the construction of the Crimean Bridge, the Nord Stream, the entire spectrum of hypersonic weapons and the acceptance of the Su-57 into service were profiled laughing
      1. Serge-667
        Serge-667 14 November 2021 21: 18
        -4
        Remind me what hypersonic weapon is accepted for service and how many regiments / squadrons / yes to hell with it, AT LEAST ONE BATTLE LINK SU-57 EXISTS ???
        1. Runner2022
          Runner2022 14 November 2021 21: 22
          -1
          2 regiments ,, Vanguards, delivered to the database since 2019, equipped with MiGs with ,, Daggers ,,, 4 more Su VKS will receive in December, what's wrong?
          1. Serge-667
            Serge-667 14 November 2021 21: 32
            -1
            Two regiments of Vanguards? Are you seriously?

            Tell me, at what speed does a conventional ICBM warhead approach the target?

            "MiGs equipped with daggers ????"
            HOW? (hint: O / W duty). I also suggest: 10 pieces. TOTAL!


            ps The theme of the Su-57 was tactfully leaked. Yes?)
            1. Runner2022
              Runner2022 14 November 2021 21: 35
              -2
              Are they completely divorced from the informational reality that you need to remind everything? Information on the Vanguards above the roof. What have you leaked? I am writing again: 4 cars will arrive in December. Plus, you need to understand how much the 57th is technologically more complex than the 22nd and 35th, a completely different generation
              1. Serge-667
                Serge-667 14 November 2021 21: 43
                0
                completely different

                Well, yes. A familiar phrase.
                #thisother ..
                About "it is necessary to understand", it is to the point. Stage !!!)
                Thanks. Neighing heartily. I understand that another kremlebot is trying to strangle me with clamps and analogue nets.
                I am deviating from this.
                1. Runner2022
                  Runner2022 14 November 2021 21: 45
                  0
                  In addition to slogans and chants, are there anything? laughing wink
                  1. Serge-667
                    Serge-667 14 November 2021 21: 46
                    -4
                    You? No. There is not.
                    1. Runner2022
                      Runner2022 14 November 2021 21: 47
                      -2
                      HM. The facts are given to you above) and do not be discouraged so, this is just information)
          2. storm
            storm 14 November 2021 22: 02
            -1
            2 units per year. The UR-100N UTTH ICBM with the Vanguard unit is put on alert.
            Two regiments of 6 ICBMs in each will take up combat duty only by 2023.
            1. Runner2022
              Runner2022 14 November 2021 22: 07
              -1
              The process is underway and it pleases.
              1. Serge-667
                Serge-667 14 November 2021 22: 14
                -3
                Sworn friends? Yes. Very happy. And you, like inflated cormorants, are also experiencing joy. Sometimes you look and think about the meaning of the expression "inagent". The impression that the inagents are all supporters of the Kremlin's policy, and not these talking heads, such as Oval.
                1. Runner2022
                  Runner2022 14 November 2021 22: 15
                  0
                  I fall asleep from your slogans)
                  1. Serge-667
                    Serge-667 14 November 2021 22: 17
                    -2
                    The process is underway and it pleases.


                    From these?
                    I heard a lot about "processes" in 1987.
  18. Shahno
    Shahno 14 November 2021 21: 27
    -1
    In a year or so. There will be a semblance of lightning .... or maybe better. ..shit is already full of others.
    1. Serge-667
      Serge-667 14 November 2021 21: 47
      -3
      I like the eurofighter. A real device with really serious capabilities. And nobody screams about him too much.
      Well, I won't even talk about the Swedish Saab. Which is the Griffin. This is generally a miracle of hostile technology, which never ceases to be amazed.
      It is a pity that they lost the MiG-1.44 at one time. That would be a car.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 38
        0
        Because the first versions were not even able to attack ground targets there. There is nothing much to shout there.

        1.44 out of the 80s for nothing.
  19. ose4kinsura
    ose4kinsura 14 November 2021 22: 19
    -1
    Several!? Aha! All at once Two! Ha-Ha!
    1. Runner2022
      Runner2022 14 November 2021 22: 35
      0
      The author?) The entire aircraft building community is already making noise about this, and it is hardly a laughing matter there. laughing wink
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. Pavel57
    Pavel57 15 November 2021 01: 37
    -2
    Quote: Runner2022
    Lord, this is wonderful) We are waiting to see you in flight!)

    No matter how it turned out, as in history, that the Su-27 was very different from the original T-10.
    1. Runner2022
      Runner2022 15 November 2021 09: 24
      +1
      As a result, the Su-27 turned out to be a masterpiece of aircraft construction with a huge potential for modernization.
  23. Cormoran
    Cormoran 15 November 2021 09: 55
    -2
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    Quote: businessv
    Translate, what are "Phase III countries"? Phases of decomposition, rigor mortis, dullness ... in short, translate!

    Kormoran ochin plyho knows ryuski language!

    Would you like to compete with Cormoran in your knowledge of Russian? It's possible. Only the results can surprise you unpleasantly.
  24. Pavel57
    Pavel57 15 November 2021 11: 11
    0
    Quote: Runner2022
    As a result, the Su-27 turned out to be a masterpiece of aircraft construction with a huge potential for modernization.

    In fact, a new plane was made. It means that a lot of money has been spent and the terms have gone to the right for five years. Although the plane is definitely a masterpiece in the end.

    So far, the impression from the Su-75 is that it is still a crude sketch. We will see what and how quickly it will turn out.
  25. Kerensky
    Kerensky 15 November 2021 11: 56
    0
    Quote: Alex777
    Quote: Kerensky
    Academy of videoconferencing, I communicate with "abitura", girls from the region.

    Sorrow ...

    Nevertheless .. "Honor to the squad - glory to the prince"
    The girls were determined not to study, but to jump out in marriage. And, since they were in the mood for admission, they did. We took the place.
  26. AC130 Gunship
    AC130 Gunship 15 November 2021 15: 35
    0
    If they themselves said that there is no engine or radar even on paper, what is the point in assembling a glider? And then it turns out that the engine does not fit. And they will, as on the Il112, redo it on their knees and wonder why, after 15 minutes of operation, the engine overheats.
    1. Runner2022
      Runner2022 15 November 2021 17: 35
      -1
      Will not, engine and radar with Su57
      1. AC130 Gunship
        AC130 Gunship 2 December 2021 04: 14
        0
        The Su57 has no engine so far. They use an old Soviet development from the Su27. In the foreign market, it will definitely not be possible to pass it off as the 5th generation.
    2. storm
      storm 20 November 2021 09: 30
      0
      It has been announced more than once that there will be maximum unification of the Su-75 and Su-57, therefore the mass-dimensional characteristics of almost all devices, assemblies and blocks are known in advance and have already been assembled into the existing airframe.
  27. p0pulivox
    p0pulivox 15 November 2021 17: 36
    0
    Quote: Vadmir
    In-in! Here doDaki Americans - take their newest F-35 to all who do not hit "vtyuhivayut"!
    The Americans are not selling the F-35 to China, which means that no one will stupidly copy it.
    The United States does not sell F-35s not only to Russia and China, but even to Turkey, as there are doubts as to whether Turkey is really a reliable ally.
    And Russia sells to everyone who pays, and it doesn't matter what China copies, it doesn't matter that Turkey is in NATO, it doesn't matter that India actively cooperates with the United States. The main thing is to get money right here and now, and after us even a flood.

    Yes, as has been said more than once!
  28. p0pulivox
    p0pulivox 15 November 2021 17: 37
    0
    Quote: TovSaaakhov
    Is it okay that Russia is far from the United States? According to economic opportunities. If there are no bucks from sales abroad, then most likely there will be no cars for their own people. But about the economy then you probably haven't heard.

    lol This is about the local drivers and about yourself wanted to say, but were ashamed ?! winked
  29. p0pulivox
    p0pulivox 15 November 2021 17: 44
    0
    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
    What are the indicators? I want it like in the Republic of Korea .. in the sense of living! ) And the income is the same

    Work like in South Korea and Japan, create the same quality products and you will have the same salary.

    First, make such an offer to the upper citizens, otherwise it looks too much like trolling!
    1. AC130 Gunship
      AC130 Gunship 21 November 2021 19: 33
      0
      And what are "upper citizens"? According to the country's constitution, we are all at the same level. And our children, just like Rogozin's son, can professionally grow into managers of the same level in order to head Tu or Il. Or not?
  30. p0pulivox
    p0pulivox 15 November 2021 18: 12
    +1
    Quote: Serge-667
    completely different

    Well, yes. A familiar phrase.
    #thisother ..
    About "it is necessary to understand", it is to the point. Stage !!!)
    Thanks. Neighing heartily. I understand that another kremlebot is trying to strangle me with clamps and analogue nets.
    I am deviating from this.

    This is where the big successes lie in the creation of an army of trollbots, which on the Internet continuously paint a picture of prosperity and tremendous success with "us", while "there" they rot and degrade. Well, think badly with reality, so much the worse for it! negative
    1. Runner2022
      Runner2022 15 November 2021 21: 31
      -3
      In a parallel reality, even the Crimean bridge, SP-2 and "Zircon" do not say laughing
      1. Pentacle
        Pentacle 15 November 2021 21: 47
        +1
        And on the topic is weak?
        1. Runner2022
          Runner2022 15 November 2021 21: 59
          -4
          Read the article on the topic, why repeat
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 16 November 2021 13: 40
      -1
      Yes, you have these norms in Kievisho, everyone already believes that we have eaten all hedgehogs.
  31. EvilLion
    EvilLion 16 November 2021 08: 14
    0
    Two is already several. One per stat. tests, one or two will be flight tests, and if the shown stand is completed to the flight test, another one will be made in its place. That is, at least 3 pieces should be done.
  32. Ramon Mercader
    Ramon Mercader 16 November 2021 11: 13
    0
    HM. As I understand it, the increase in the number of prototypes is associated with the interest of potential customers. Apparently someone at the exhibition in the Emirates still liked it)
  33. Torp20
    Torp20 16 November 2021 13: 04
    +1
    They lied, time, we will lie. Every week we have new weapons, we ring the whole world and the sofa patriots believe.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Serge-667
      Serge-667 16 November 2021 17: 06
      +1
      They not only believe, but also actively avoid.
  34. p0pulivox
    p0pulivox 16 November 2021 18: 41
    0
    Quote: Serge-667
    They not only believe, but also actively avoid.

    Diligently work out the soldering!
  35. Outsider
    Outsider 16 November 2021 21: 10
    0
    - "What was required to prove": Su-57 - for scrap, Su-75 - forward! laughing
    1. dreamshake
      dreamshake 16 November 2021 22: 18
      -1
      Some kind of "wrong" junk when ramping up production of 57x
      1. Outsider
        Outsider 16 November 2021 23: 01
        +1
        - "Increasing production" - this is when a year from factory conveyors leave 150+ F-35. When in a year came down from the stocks 1 (one) Su-57, and next year they promise to release 4 (four) - well, yes, this is indeed a fourfold increase in production!
        But laughing or crying in this place is incomprehensible ...
        1. dreamshake
          dreamshake 17 November 2021 12: 01
          -2
          Pfff .... a 4th generation iron with a bunch of electronics F-35 why compare with a full-fledged combat vehicle of the 5th?
        2. AC130 Gunship
          AC130 Gunship 2 December 2021 04: 19
          0
          Outsider
          Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye!
          At one time, they taught in the diploma project how to calculate the economic benefit of your creation from another. You invent something else (bad) from the bulldozer, and show in numbers how much yours is better ...
  36. Outsider
    Outsider 16 November 2021 21: 18
    0
    Quote: Vadmir
    In-in! Here doDaki Americans - take their newest F-35 to all who do not hit "vtyuhivayut"!
    The Americans are not selling the F-35 to China, which means that no one will stupidly copy it.
    The United States does not sell F-35s not only to Russia and China, but even to Turkey, as there are doubts as to whether Turkey is really a reliable ally.
    And Russia sells to everyone who pays, and it doesn't matter what China copies, it doesn't matter that Turkey is in NATO, it doesn't matter that India actively cooperates with the United States. The main thing is to get money right here and now, and after us even a flood.

    - And you are terribly surprised, "why so" ?! But "it's elementary, Watson": Russian aircraft engineering technologies - yesterday and the day before yesterday for the West, therefore, she boldly sells her planes, missiles and air defense systems both to the West and to the East, and to everyone who pays money - for an elementary reason: she absolutely does not risk anything. She has nothing to communicate, which would not have been created in the West 25-30 years ago, NO RISK.
    So, sleep well, glorious Great Russians, your corrupt managers will not cause irreparable damage to the country's defense ... lol
    1. Serge-667
      Serge-667 17 November 2021 21: 16
      +1
      It’s a pity, I can’t give a plus. I shake hands virtually))
  37. dreamshake
    dreamshake 16 November 2021 22: 04
    -2
    Now that Russia has created the most dangerous weapon in the world - hypersonic and the most advanced air defense, it is possible to do airplanes. We are waiting for the new 57x and this thing in the sky.
    1. Outsider
      Outsider 16 November 2021 22: 55
      +1
      when Russia created the most dangerous weapon in the world - a hypersonic

      - And who told you that ?! lol
      ... and the most advanced air defense ...

      - Then why oh whyth promotedth"- anti-aircraftth defenseа. laughing
      1. dreamshake
        dreamshake 17 November 2021 12: 09
        -2
        Do not be upset, you are so in a Russophobic stupor, the world is changing wink laughing
        1. Outsider
          Outsider 17 November 2021 13: 35
          +1
          - If hurray-patriots still really imagined - which way! winked
  38. p0pulivox
    p0pulivox 22 November 2021 16: 56
    0
    Quote: AC130 Ganship
    And what are "upper citizens"? According to the country's constitution, we are all at the same level. And our children, just like Rogozin's son, can professionally grow into managers of the same level in order to head Tu or Il. Or not?

    Only according to the Constitution or in reality too ?! winked
  39. p0pulivox
    p0pulivox 22 November 2021 17: 00
    0
    Quote: Outsider
    - If hurray-patriots still really imagined - which way! winked

    Nuuu, this is too difficult a task for them! laughing