Military Review

Repressions of 1941 in the Red Army

199
Repressions of 1941 in the Red Army

Repression is a sore topic for our people even after 90 years, and the topic, alas, is largely politicized. At first they denied repressions, then they rehabilitated the convicts en masse, then hushed up, and then again ...


There were repressions, and there were innocent convicts, even the most ardent supporter of Stalin cannot but admit that the arrests of people like Rokossovsky or Gorbatov are stupidity on the verge of betrayal.

But not everyone was judged and just like that, especially in the cases of 1941, when in a supercritical situation it was clearly manifested what kind of person is inside, and whether there is a core in him. And, alas, not all pre-war generals had a core.

Major General Potaturchev



A career, in principle, typical for that time - an ordinary artilleryman in the First World War, four classes of education (at that time it was pretty good, at the level of our secondary school), the Red Army in the Civil, a party school, an anti-aircraft artillery school. One of the young cadres who were supposed to replace the tsarist generals and commanders of the Civil War.

Career advancement is also fast - already in 1930 he was a student of the Faculty of Mechanization and Motorization of the Military Technical Academy. F.E.Dzerzhinsky. From May 1932 to May 1935 - student of the Military Academy of Mechanization and Motorization of the Red Army named after V.I. I. V. Stalin. Further - the battalion commander and brigade commander of the 21st heavy tank brigades, elites of the Ground Forces of the Red Army. Combat experience, however, not very: The liberation campaign in Western Belarus is not a war.

And in the summer of 1940, he was appointed commander of the Fourth Panzer Division - one of the strongest and oldest armored divisions of the Red Army. Most of them were formed in 1941 and entered the battle without even completing their formation, and Potaturchev's division was of the first wave, from those whom they managed to form, equip and where they could even take a course of combat training. Actually, the Sixth Mechanized Corps of Khatskilevich itself, which included the division, was staffed normally, by the standards of the Red Army in 1941 - just excellent. At Potaturchev's disposal were only the newest tanks: 88 - T-34 and 63 - KV, manning was almost one hundred percent (10 people), transport - 900%.

And then there was the war and the Bialystok cauldron, where the Sixth Mechanized Corps and the Fourth Tank Corps disappeared.

The fate of the commanders was different: Boldin, who headed the KMG, with a small group left the encirclement, Khatskilevich led the breakthrough and died, and Potaturchev ...

During the years of perestroika, his widow told the following history:

Potaturchev was betrayed by the storekeeper of the quartermaster service, who recognized him in Bobruisk. After interrogations, Potaturchev was taken to execution. The bullet went through below the heart. The peasants picked him up and cured him. Until January 1942, he was partisan, then he crossed the front line. Then he was arrested, and on September 30, 1945, he died in the prison hospital.

The hero was rehabilitated immediately after Stalin's death, his wife received a pension.

It's beautiful, it's a pity that it's not true, and everything: from a to z.

First, Potaturchev, leaving the unit entrusted to him, changed into civilian clothes and really walked towards the front, where he was captured by a German patrol in Minsk, becoming the first captured Soviet general.

Second:

In the appendix there is a sheet with General P.'s own hand-written diagrams concerning the battles of his division. It was interesting to see with what pedantic precision he painted them. Disadvantages such as too wide spread, lack of clear leadership and communication, he fully acknowledged. If he gave orders, after recognizing the threatening German encirclement, he would collect his units (while he clenched his fists) and would break through to the southeast or east. The decision was correct, but he did not seem to be aware of the difficulties in managing and supplying the units that would arise as a result of its implementation.
After leaving his troops, he wanted to try to get through Slonim, Baranovichi and Bobruisk to Smolensk, and from there to Moscow. He recognized the possibility that when he arrived in Smolensk, Moscow would have already fallen, and intended in this case to move to his family. When asked about the family, he began to cry and asked to be taken out of the room.

From a purely human point of view, you can understand, after the defeat broke down and fled, being captured by the Germans, split and said what he knew and what, from his point of view, the Germans might like:

He is not a convinced communist, but every commander had to [be] a member of the party, that is, a communist according to the documents. Internally, he is pessimistic about communism. In the Soviet economy, he is dissatisfied with many things; he does not agree with the collective farm system.

And the conclusion of the Germans:

P. looks like a man of the people who owes his ascent not to talent, but to personal ambition, diligence and energy. It is noteworthy that he willingly gives data on his division, its structure and combat use, even on the tactical foundations of the actions of the Russian tank forces. It seems to him that it does not occur to him at all that by doing so, from our point of view, he is violating the most sacred duty of an officer.

You can argue with this or not, but you can read:

58-1 "a". Treason to the Motherland, i.e. actions committed by citizens of the USSR to the detriment of the military might of the USSR, its state independence or inviolability, such as: espionage, issuing military or state secrets, going over to the side of the enemy, fleeing or flying abroad, are punishable by the capital punishment - shooting with confiscation of everything property, and under extenuating circumstances - imprisonment for a term of ten years with confiscation of all property. 58-1 "b". The same crimes committed by military personnel are punishable by the highest measure of criminal punishment - shooting with confiscation of all property.

Criminal Code.

Again, in those conditions it was easy to break down, the Western Front survived a catastrophe, and this is a fact. Potaturchev is not guilty of the catastrophe, he is rather a victim. But...

Law is law, and Potaturchev's colleagues perished, broke out of the encirclement with groups of their fighters, but did their duty.

At the same time and in the same places, another general, Karbyshev, was captured, who preferred death to shame. And he is not alone, the number of soldiers and officers of the Red Army who fought to the end is enormous. Otherwise, we would not have won the war.

But Potartuchev broke down, an ordinary soldier can be sent to a penal company for this, what to do with the general?

He was arrested, in 1947 he died in prison, before he was tried and executed.

I don't see a monster in him, a traitor - too, just an ordinary person who has chosen the wrong profession. But this does not relieve him of responsibility, especially since he really violated the law.

Major General Chernykh


“Chernykh was found guilty and convicted of the fact that, being the commander of the 9th Air Division, during the outbreak of hostilities by the Nazi forces against the USSR, he showed criminal inaction in the performance of his duties, as a result of which aviation the enemy destroyed about 70% of the material part of the division, and on the night of June 27, 1941, being at the Seshchensky airfield and mistaking the 3 Soviet planes that had arrived at this airfield for fascist ones, he showed cowardice, announced a pointless alarm, after which, leaving the leadership of the division's units, he fled from the front to the city of Bryansk, where he spread provocative fabrications that the enemy had landed troops at the Seshchensky airfield ... "

As a division commander in the Bialystok ledge, he was brought to a village near Bryansk - a little later. In the meantime, about the landing - in addition to panic, Citizen Chernykh ordered the destruction of materiel in Sesche ...

He ordered and rushed to Bryansk shouting "Germans", which disorganized the front-line city.

What happened, in principle, is clear - a young officer born in 1912, appointed to command the division:

As of June 22, 1941, the division had 429 aircraft, including 74 out of order. Of the 256 combat-ready crews, 55 were ready to carry out combat missions at night in simple ones, and only 45 in the daytime in adverse weather conditions. 110 crews arrived from schools or were retrained for new vehicles.


I screwed up my job, because I had neither the experience nor the talents of the genius level. On the first day of the war, he was confused and did not disperse the regiments entrusted to him, then he evacuated with those who survived to the rear for rearmament, where he finally fell through.

At the same time, Sergei Chernykh is a combat pilot with experience in fighting in Spain and a skilled fighter, like his boss, also from Rychagov's team, General Kopets. Just the rapid career of Rychagov, who pulled behind him the same young and early, sincerely believing that they know what is best, led to what it led to: a third of the MIGs of the Red Army was lost, the division commander fell into a panic and was shot.

Under Khrushchev, he was rehabilitated - after all, Stalin was personally guilty of everything ...

Without denying the guilt of Comrade Stalin, who staked on the youth, but Major General Chernykh was not appointed by force, did anyone?

Did the security officer with a revolver stand behind when he received the front-line division?

Privates were shot for panic in wartime: we, the Germans, the Americans and the British. And the demand from the general, in my humble opinion, is much higher.

At the same time, he was not a traitor to Black, nor was he a coward. If he was in command of a regiment at the age of 29, and the Germans would see Kuz'kina's mother in the sky, as they saw in the performance of, say, Lev Shestakov, the regiment commander in Odessa, who did not jump above his head after Spain. Or other Spaniards who fought bravely and skillfully ... At their level.

Colonel Alekseev


July 9 p. The division commander Alekseev, having a written order from the Front Military Council - to hold the occupied positions, on the basis of an alleged oral order from the commander of the 7th rifle corps Dobroserdov, the 492nd rifle regiment, which had all the capabilities to hold the line defenses until the arrival of reinforcements, ordered to withdraw. This order was not passed on to the rest of the regiments. Division commander Alekseev, along with commissar Korzhev and other commanders, leaving the units, fled from the battlefield. In the area where the division headquarters was located, on July 11, all the office work of the division headquarters and about 2 million money were found abandoned.

Moskvich, 44 years old, career commander of the Red Army. Having brought far from the best division (formations of 1941) to position, he was confused and:

parts of the division took up defensive positions later than the specified time, in addition, during the march, food for the fighters was not organized. People, especially the 617th Rifle Regiment, arrived in the defense area exhausted.
After occupying the defense area, the division command did not reconnoitre the enemy forces, did not take measures to blow up the bridge over the Sluch River in the central defense sector, which made it possible for the enemy to transfer tanks and motorized infantry. Due to the fact that the command did not establish contact between the division headquarters and the regiments, on 6 July the 617th and 584th rifle regiments operated without any direction from the division command.

In panic, he did not fulfill the elementary things for the divisional commander, which led to the defeat, conviction and execution on December 27, 1941, with further rehabilitation during the time of Khrushchev.

It happened, of course, in different ways, repression is also a dubious method of restoring order. Here is the Northwest Front:

Glovatsky again turned to I.S.Kosobutsky with a request to allow the retreat. Kosobutsky gave the order to retreat to Pskov, but did not inform Glovatsky that, in addition to his division and the garrison of the Pskov fortified area, two regiments of the 111th division should simultaneously withdraw from the left bank. (Subsequently, when arrested and during interrogation, Kosobutsky refused to acknowledge the fact of the order given. Since Glovatsky did not have time to receive a written order, he could not confirm the fact of the order. The absence of a written order and Kosobutsky's refusal to acknowledge the fact of the order formed the basis of Glovatsky's guilty verdict).

Then the corps commander set up his divisional commander, he got off with a sentence of 10 years, served a year, and was reinstated in rank. Divisional commander Glovatsky was shot and rehabilitated posthumously, which is little consolation.

But you must understand that time - this is the period when people died in the Brest Fortress, but did not surrender, when the pilots rammed, when civilians were enrolled in the militia, and the absolute majority of commanders fought to the last.

As an example of the mood of the time:

"Among the Red Army, when you talk to them about retreat, there is massive discontent, and literally you have to pull them out of the trenches, people want to fight, and the orders to retreat."

And in such conditions it was necessary to punish alarmists.

Well, after the war ...

The commander of the 5th Army, Major General Potapov, after captivity continued to serve, for example, and he was not alone. He simply did not testify, did not surrender military secrets, did not cooperate with the Germans.

22 generals were restored to the rank, 6 more escaped from captivity, 28 died, only eight out of 81 went over to the side of the Germans.

With regard to rehabilitation - there is a law, there is a private opinion, each has its own.

My point is that the time has not yet come to issue final verdicts, but the rehabilitation of everyone without exception is also not a method. Our era and understanding of justice are too different from that era.
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  1. avia12005
    avia12005 9 November 2021 05: 55
    +17
    I read it, and the thought came to my mind: after all, the current pandemic makes it possible to better understand the reasons for the defeats of 1941. And now some managers are showing blatant incompetence, instead of doing real things, they are doing show, do not care about people. Only there are no repressions and executions.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 9 November 2021 06: 15
      +8
      Extreme as a litmus shows character traits - courage, cowardice, composure, confusion, resilience, or spinelessness ...
      1. avia12005
        avia12005 9 November 2021 06: 27
        +3
        Exactly. But in the current situation, there is no selection, neither artificial nor natural, in relation to leaders who fail the fight against covid.
      2. Seal
        Seal 9 November 2021 12: 27
        +4
        But one must understand that personal courage of the mind does not replace. Here is from the memoirs of K. Meretskov
        "..... Some military leaders were selected unsuccessfully. Let me dwell on the characteristics of the commander of the 2nd Shock Army, Lieutenant General G. G. Sokolov. He came to the army from the post of Deputy People's Commissar of Internal Affairs. In practice, he did not succeed. It was evident that his approach to solving problems in a combat situation was based on long-obsolete concepts and dogmas. Here is an excerpt from his order No. 14 of November 19, 1941:

        "1. Walking; like the crawling of flies in the fall, I cancel and order to continue to walk in the army like this: a military step is an arshin, they should walk. Accelerated - one and a half, and press.
        2. Order is not right with food. In the middle of the battle they dine and the march is interrupted for breakfast. In war, the order is as follows: breakfast is dawn, before dawn, and lunch is dark, in the evening. During the day you will be able to chew bread or rusk with tea - good, but not - and thanks for that, since the day is not particularly long.

        3. Remember to everyone - both the commanders, and the rank and file, the old and the young, that in the daytime no more company can go in columns, but in general it is night for a campaign in war, then march.

        4. Do not be afraid of the cold, do not wear Ryazan women, be good fellows and do not succumb to the cold. Rub your ears and hands with snow! "


        Why not Suvorov? But it is known that Suvorov, in addition to giving catchy orders that penetrate the soldier's soul, took care of the troops. He demanded that everyone be well dressed, armed and well fed. Preparing for battle, he took into account everything to the smallest detail, personally engaged in reconnaissance of the terrain and approaches to the enemy's fortifications. Sokolov, on the other hand, thought that the whole thing was in a dashing piece of paper, and was limited mainly to orders.

        At a meeting that the Front Military Council convened before the start of the offensive at the command post of the 2nd Shock Army, the commanders of the formations expressed resentment at the superficial leadership of the army commander. At the same meeting, it turned out that General Sokolov did not know the situation at all, what they were doing and where the formations of his army were, was far from the modern understanding of combat and operations, and clung to the old methods and methods of leading troops. And where these methods did not help, he lost heart. It is no coincidence that the preparation of the army for the offensive was unforgivably delayed. It was clear that General Sokolov was incapable of leading the army. And although the change of command is not an easy matter, especially on the eve of the offensive, we nevertheless risked asking the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command to replace the commander of the 2nd Shock Army. The rate agreed with us. A few days later, Sokolov was recalled to Moscow. He was succeeded by Lieutenant General NK Klykov, the former commander of the 52nd Army, and Lieutenant General VF Yakovlev took over the command of the latter. "
        No one could accuse Sokolov of cowardice. But what was the use of his courage in command posts?
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 9 November 2021 12: 33
          +1
          Quote: Seal
          he couldn't do anything.

          Professionalism, there is such a concept. And if it is not, then - alas!
    2. Finches
      Finches 9 November 2021 06: 27
      +4
      At the beginning of 1941, more than 570 thousand officers served in the army and navy, and according to historians, 7% of them did not have a higher education! And this is not a small figure! That is, there was no knowledge of how to command the entrusted units, units, formations, formations ... There was no experience! There was a massive fear of taking responsibility for oneself, which was very fraught in a combat situation ... There was treason, cowardice, stupidity, but there was more confusion, which, coupled with a lack of knowledge and experience, led to depressing results in the first months of the war! And that was at all levels of government! As an example, Mekhlis, a man of great personal courage, but as a military absolute wooden to the waist, as a result of the Crimean catastrophe!
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 9 November 2021 06: 48
        +10
        Repression is a sore subject for our people even after 90 years,
        Return the cons to the authors. Repression has existed since the days of Ancient Babylon to today's democracies. Democratic repression will be worse.
        1. Finches
          Finches 9 November 2021 07: 01
          -12
          During the years of the so-called "Great Terror", mainly in 1937, about 40 thousand officers were repressed, which is not so many. In addition, the majority for the cause ... But still, until the end of the 5th column, it was not possible to clean out. For example, Pavlov during interrogation showed that even before the war they had defeatist conversations with Meretskov, and Meretskov's criminal case is still classified, how he convinced Stalin that he was innocent, no one will ever know, but Pavlov was shot absolutely for the cause!
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 9 November 2021 09: 43
            +9
            Quote: Finches
            For example, Pavlov during interrogation showed

            Eugene, and in the place of Pavlov, after what period of time would you show on Meretskov? Well, purely hypothetical?
            Either you defend Kozlov, accusing Mehlis of all sins, then you suspect Meretskov of something .... By the way, Meretskov, being the commander of the Volkhov Front, did not really want to let the PMC Mehlis go to the Reserve Front!
            1. Finches
              Finches 9 November 2021 09: 50
              0
              The fact of the matter is that the reasons for the sudden arrest of Marshal Meretskov, arrested on June 23, 1941, are still unclear. His arrest had nothing to do with the defeat of the Red Army on the Western Front. Pavlov will be removed only on June 30 (if I'm not mistaken). Nevertheless, the criminal case against Meretskov is still classified!
              And yes, just below I wrote that all three are to blame: Kozlov, Mekhlis and Kulik!
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 9 November 2021 11: 15
                +4
                Quote: Finches
                The fact of the matter is that the reasons for the sudden arrest of Marshal Meretskov, who was arrested on June 23, 1941, are still unclear.

                Most likely, the arrest of Meretskov was aimed at Tymoshenko, the Voroshilov shooter was excellent at translating the arrows to others ... "The Aviator Case" is a vivid example of this!
                Quote: Finches
                Nevertheless, the criminal case against Meretskov is still classified!

                According to the FSB, it was destroyed after Stalin's death!
                Quote: Finches
                just below I wrote that all three are to blame: Kozlov, Mekhlis and Kulik!

                Exactly three, Kozlov, Shamanin and Mehlis! Kulik by that time was already in deep disgrace and had nothing to do with the Crimean front.
                1. Finches
                  Finches 9 November 2021 11: 24
                  +6
                  Shamanin, yes! Whatever one may say, but a member of the Military Council of the Crimean Front. I do not agree about Kulik, At the beginning of November 1941, the head of the Supreme Command, Marshal of the Soviet Union G.I. Kulik left for the Kerch direction on the personal order of I.V. Stalin in order to ensure the interaction of troops on the Taman and Kerch peninsulas, to organize a reliable defense in the southern sector of the front. Kulik did not cope with the task, but stubbornly convinced the leader that he had completed all the tasks set! After the Kerch tragedy, the marshal was taken for a zugunder and blamed that "in violation of the order of the Headquarters and his military duty, he sanctioned the surrender of Kerch to the enemy and his alarmist behavior in Kerch only intensified defeatist sentiments and demoralization among the command of the Crimean troops."
                  1. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 9 November 2021 12: 38
                    +2
                    Quote: Finches
                    After the Kerch tragedy, the marshal was taken for a zugunder and accused of "sanctioning the surrender of Kerch to the enemy in violation of the Stavka order and his military duty, and his alarmist behavior in Kerch only strengthened defeatist sentiments and demoralization among the command of the Crimean troops."

                    And 15 years later, the General Staff decided that Kulik did not have the strength to hold the city. And Konev spoke for Kulik.
                    Based on the study of the case materials and operational documents related to the hostilities in the Kerch direction, the General Staff came to the conclusion that by November 11-15, 1941, the enemy forces on this front quantitatively outnumbered our troops by several times and that under the current conditions the command of the troops Kerch direction, as well as the former. Marshal of the Soviet Union KULIK with cash and, moreover, weakened forces and means could not hold the city of Kerch and change the course of hostilities in our favor.

                    Thus, for the abandonment of the city of Kerch, GI KULIK was convicted groundlessly.
                    © Konev. Rudenko.
                    Taking into account the fact that Kulik arrived in Kerch when the enemy had already captured the fortress and the dominant heights, with a very high degree of probability he was simply appointed the scapegoat. Moreover, there were already complaints against him about his actions in the Western direction at the beginning of the war.
                    1. Finches
                      Finches 9 November 2021 12: 57
                      +3
                      I agree that opinions on this issue differ and it is impossible to say absolutely unambiguously who is right, who is to blame, the war is to blame ... but nevertheless, if you are a marshal, then the demand is from you for defeat in the marshal style!
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 9 November 2021 12: 04
                  +1
                  Quote: Serg65
                  "Aviators case"a striking example of this!

                  it was a noble business:

                  arrested before the war and at the beginning of the war the generals of the aviation and then SHOT:

                  - three former commanders of the Red Army Air Force (Loktionov, Smushkevich, Rychagov);

                  - Head of the Main Directorate of the USSR Air Defense (Stern);

                  - Assistant to the Air Force Commander-in-Chief for Long-Range Aviation (Proskurov);

                  - Chief of Staff of the Red Army Air Force and his deputy (Volodin and Yusupov);

                  - Commander of the Air Force of the Far Eastern Front (Gusev);

                  - Deputy Commander of the Air Force of the Leningrad Military District (Levin);

                  - Commander of the Air Force of the North-Western Front (Ionov);

                  - Commander of the Air Force of the Western Front (Tayurskiy);

                  - Air Force Commander and Chief of Staff of the Air Force of the Southwestern Front (Ptukhin and Laskin);

                  - Commander of the Air Force of the Moscow Military District (Pumpur);

                  - Assistant Commander of the Air Force of the Oryol Military District (Shakht);

                  - Assistant Commander of the Air Force of the Volga Military District (Alekseev);

                  - Head of the Military Academy for the command and navigational staff of the Air Force (Arzhenukhin);

                  - Head of the Air Force Research Institute (Filin);

                  and many other excellent commanders and engineers.

                  They were shot DURING THE WAR not at all for "mistakes" at the beginning of the war, but on absolutely wild, far-fetched pre-war accusations.

                  The literate, best ASOV of the USSR Air Force, Heroes of the SS, were shot on October 28, 1941.
                  The fate of the largest group of those arrested was decided on January 29, 1942, Stalin personally wrote on the memorandum of the People's Commissar of the NKVD Beria: “Shoot all those named in the list ".

                  Wildness ...
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 9 November 2021 12: 36
                    -1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Wildness ...

                    The usual undercover struggle for a warm place near Comrade. Stalin and no more!
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 9 November 2021 13: 19
                      +2
                      Quote: Serg65
                      The usual undercover struggle for a warm place near Comrade. Stalin and no more!

                      Not only. Specifically, Rychagov was sacred for loss of trust... He was appointed to his post personally by the IVS, who trusted him - and citizen Rychagov deigned to lie to the party and the government, hiding the facts of disasters in the Air Force entrusted to him. And hiding it stupidly, childishly - promising to send reports and not sending, and not realizing that the information still goes upstairs through at least two channels (party organizations and the department "where necessary"). And when the fact of concealment was revealed, instead of a normal analysis of the causes of the accident, he made a hysterical "The accident rate and will be big because you make us fly on coffins". The same Novikov in a similar situation would have referred to the lack of fuel and training machines for teaching and maintaining the classroom - as he did at a meeting in December 1940.

                      Levers was on trust - and therefore the demand was so great.
                      1. Serg65
                        Serg65 10 November 2021 07: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        Levers were on trust - and therefore the demand was so great

                        Rychagov is of little interest to me, unlike Stern and Smushkevich, and for all intents and purposes I agree with you ... young and early, he climbed where it was not worth it. Basically, like Pavlov!
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 10 November 2021 11: 18
                        -2
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        Specifically, Rychagov was accused of losing trust. He was personally appointed to his post IVS (just, he trusted him - and Citizen of Levers deigned to lie


                        Citizen Rychagov was no less than Citizen C, who did not possess any official power, but was only the head of a public organization.

                        Accordingly, he could not deceive anyone, he was an ace of the Air Force and the GSS, criminally destroyed during the war, when his knowledge and skills were needed more than ever.

                        The same applies to Smushkevich, Proskurov, Ptukhin, etc.

                        They also "lied" to the citizen with?

                        And yes, who is gr. s, to decide who to shoot and who to have mercy on?
                  2. Alf
                    Alf 9 November 2021 17: 33
                    +1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    - three former commanders of the Red Army Air Force (Loktionov, Smushkevich, Rychagov);

                    Whose phrase "We will not figure"?
                  3. ivan2022
                    ivan2022 9 November 2021 17: 55
                    -2
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    The literate, best ASOV of the USSR Air Force, Heroes of the SS, were shot on October 28, 1941.

                    Heroes of the SS are cool ... or hehe ... not by chance? ... it happens ...

                    If they were to blame for what they were accused of, they had to shoot. If not guilty, their execution is a crime against the Law, the state and the authorities. What do you have? This is kind of like the savagery of the power itself? I believe that savagery in this case is the archaic traditions of a society that (in a very typical example of your post) does not even understand what is considered a crime, against whom and against what or whom?
                    By the way, the Russian lawyer Spasovich wrote about this back in the 19th century;"In our country, a jury trial is impossible, since the society does not even understand that a crime is a violation of the law, and not an insult to the victim!"
                    This is what wildness is
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 10 November 2021 08: 02
                      -4
                      Quote: ivan2022
                      This is kind of like the savagery of the power itself?

                      just like that: ALL of them are justified
                      1. ivan2022
                        ivan2022 22 November 2021 09: 32
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quote: ivan2022
                        This is kind of like the savagery of the power itself?

                        just like that: ALL of them are justified

                        Uh-huh ... Uh-huh ... TODAY THE KINGDOM OF HIGHER JUSTICE HAS COME THANKS TO SAINTS YELTSIN AND OTHERS ....
                  4. A. h. 52
                    A. h. 52 11 November 2021 16: 18
                    -3
                    Proskurov was shot under another article.
          2. Valerikk
            Valerikk 9 November 2021 09: 50
            +5
            Quote: Finches
            During the years of the so-called "Great Terror", mainly in 1937, about 40 thousand officers were repressed, which is not so many.

            What do you mean by "repressed"? Is the dismissal repression?
            In general - here:
            "In total, 1937 people were dismissed in 1938 and 35, of which:

            a) natural loss (dead, dismissed due to illness, disability, drunkards, etc.) is 6692, or 19,1% of the number of dismissed; [50]

            b) arrested - 9506, or 27,2% of those dismissed;

            c) those dismissed for political reasons (expelled from the AUCP (b) - by the directive of the Central Committee of the AUCP (b) - 14, or 684% of the dismissed;

            d) foreigners dismissed by the directive of the People's Commissar of Defense - 4138 people, or 11,8% of those dismissed. "

            RGVA. F.37837. Op. 19. D.87. L. 42-52.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 10 November 2021 15: 52
              -1
              "Those dismissed for political reasons (expelled from the CPSU (b) - by the directive of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) - 14, or 684% of the dismissed" in the service.
          3. Alexander Trebuntsev
            Alexander Trebuntsev 9 November 2021 10: 09
            +4
            Thirty-something thousand, or rather, were expelled from the army. More than 8 thousand of them were restored again in the near future. They wrote letters to Stalin. About 12 thousand were shot. The rest simply no longer served in the army before the start of the war.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 10 November 2021 15: 53
              0
              It should be borne in mind that this was the commanding staff and its reduction for the combat readiness of the army turned out to be a stalemate.
              1. ivan2022
                ivan2022 9 December 2021 22: 27
                0
                Quote: Vadim237
                It should be borne in mind that this was the commanding staff and its reduction for the combat readiness of the army turned out to be a stalemate.

                Well, what can you know?
                You reason as if you have information at the ministerial level. But in reality you are the object of PR actions aimed at mass brainwashing.
          4. Fitter65
            Fitter65 9 November 2021 10: 56
            +3
            Quote: Finches
            During the years of the so-called "Great Terror", mainly in 1937, about 40 thousand officers were repressed, which is not so many. In addition, the majority for the cause

            At VO it was already arranged on the shelves how many of these 40000 were dismissed for health reasons, how many for drunkenness, theft, etc. ... Just how many were unreasonably dismissed from the ranks of the Red Army, and how many were restored. And also how much for what and how it was punished. Look for it on VO ...
            1. Finches
              Finches 9 November 2021 11: 03
              +3
              Yes, and here it is! I didn't write, they were shot - I put in quotation marks the words about the great terror, it means that 40 thousand officers were removed from the army in one way or another, which is a drop in the ocean in relation to the regular officers! Under Serdyukov, more than 200 thousand officers were fired - so it's good that no one attacked us at that moment! laughing
              1. Fitter65
                Fitter65 9 November 2021 11: 33
                0
                Quote: Finches
                Yes, and here it is! I didn't write, they were shot - I put in quotation marks the words about the great terror, it means that 40 thousand officers were removed from the army in one way or another, which is a drop in the ocean in relation to the regular officers!

                You have quoted "big terror" in quotation marks, not repressed. But I think we understood each other.
                1. Finches
                  Finches 9 November 2021 11: 38
                  +1
                  hi That's right!
              2. Serg65
                Serg65 9 November 2021 12: 39
                +1
                Quote: Finches
                I put in quotes the words about the great terror

                recourse In relation to the Navy and the Air Force, I would remove these quotes!
          5. Old electrician
            Old electrician 9 November 2021 13: 28
            +7
            During the years of the so-called "Great Terror", mainly in 1937, about 40 thousand officers were repressed, which is not so many.
            - this nonsense was first voiced by Honored Political Officer Colonel-General D.A. Volkogonov. During the years of Perestroika, he began to cut the truth of the womb without a knife and as if in good spirits declared that in 1937-1938 36761 people were repressed in the army and more than 3 thousand in the navy. A total of more than 40 thousand. True, Volkogonov made a reservation that not all of them were shot.
            The chief ideologist of the Central Committee of the CPSU A.N. Yakovlev, in turn, said that between 1937 and 1938, 70 thousand officers were shot.
            This seemed a little, so V.N. Rapoport and Yu.A. Geller clarified: "Therefore, we are forced to assume that the decline in the staff for the two years of the purge amounted to approximately 100 thousand people."
            100 thousand people is some kind of unfortunate, gray figure, and V.S. Koval finished off the rest: "Without a war in the dungeons and camps of the NKVD, almost the entire magnificent officer corps, the backbone of the Red Army, perished."
            But even this seemed not enough! Therefore, D.E. Melnikov and L.B. Black added: "The entire middle command staff perished at the hands of the executioners." - That's better already! This is not some pitiful 40 thousand shot by Volkogonov.
            According to archival data, now available not only to Honored Political Worker Colonel-General D.A. Volkogonov, from 1934 to October 25, 1939, the following number of command personnel was annually dismissed from the personnel of the Red Army:
            In 1934 was 6596 people were dismissed, or 5,9% of the payroll, of which:
            a) for drunkenness and moral decay - 1513;
            b) due to illness, disability, death, etc. - 4604;
            c) as arrested and convicted - 479.
            Total - 6596.
            In 1935 was 8560 people were dismissed, or 7,2% of the payroll, of which:
            a) for political and moral reasons, official inconsistency, at will, etc. - 6719;
            b) due to illness and death - 1492;
            c) as convicted - 349.
            Total - 8560.
            In 1936 was 4918 people were dismissed, or 3,9% of the payroll, of which:
            a) for drunkenness and political and moral inconsistency - 1942;
            b) due to illness, disability and death - 1937;
            c) for political reasons (expulsion from the party) - 782;
            d) as arrested and convicted - 257.
            Total - 4918.
            In 1937 was 18658 people were dismissed, or 13,6% of the payroll, of which:
            a) for political reasons (expulsion from the party, connection with the enemies of the people) - 11104;
            b) arrested - 4474;
            c) for drunkenness and moral decay - 1139;
            d) due to illness, disability, death - 1941.
            Total - 18658.
            In 1938 was 16362 people were dismissed, or 11,3% of the payroll, of which:
            a) for political reasons - expelled from the CPSU (b), who, according to the directive of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b), were subject to dismissal from the Red Army and for communication with the conspirators - 3580;
            b) foreigners (Latvians - 717, Poles - 1099, Germans - 620, Estonians - 312, Koreans, Lithuanians and others), natives of foreign countries and those associated with it, who were dismissed in accordance with the directive of the People's Commissar of Defense of 24.6.1938 No. 200 / sh , - 4138;
            c) arrested - 5032;
            d) for drunkenness, waste, embezzlement, moral decay - 2671;
            e) due to illness, disability, death - 941.
            Total - 16362.
            In 1939 was by 25.10, 1691 people were dismissed, or 0,6% of the payroll, of which:
            a) for political reasons (expulsion from the party, connection with the conspirators) - 277;
            b) arrested - 67;
            c) for drunkenness and moral decay - 197;
            d) due to illness, disability - 725;
            e) excluded for death - 425.
            The total number of dismissed in 6 years is 56 785 people.
            They were dismissed in total in 1937 and 1938. - 35020 people, of which:
            a) natural loss (dead, dismissed due to illness, disability, drunkards, etc.) is 6692, or 19,1% of the number of dismissed;
            b) arrested - 9506, or 27,2% of those dismissed;
            c) dismissed for political reasons [expelled from the AUCP (b) - by the directive of the Central Committee of the AUCP (b)] - 14684, or 41,9% of the dismissed;
            d) foreigners dismissed by the directive of the People's Commissar of Defense - 4138 people, or 11,8% of those dismissed.
            The actual loss of command and control and political personnel from the army was:
            1. For 1936-37. - 19674 people, or 6,9% of the payroll number (including 2827 people of the political composition).
            2. For 1938-39. - 11723 people, or 2,3% of the payroll number (including 3515 people of the political composition).
            For more than three years, in the period from January 1, 1937 to May 1, 1940, 36898 people were dismissed from the army for various reasons, including those related to illness, age limit, violation of discipline. This is the figure of the innocent repressed, made public by Volkogonov. As you can see, among the innocently repressed, he included in general all those dismissed from the Red Army for any reason. What more do you want from the political officer?
            In fact, from 1936 to 1940, only 9913 servicemen were convicted, including 1364 people sentenced to capital punishment. Note that these are those convicted not only under Art. 58 of the Criminal Code, but also for all other criminal articles, such as the heroic prototype of Major Pugachev from Varlam Shalamov's Kolyma Tales. Let me explain for those who do not know. Surely everyone has seen the sentimental film about the innocent victims of political repression "The Last Battle of Major Pugachev." It turns out that this really happened! 12 "heroes" escaped, strangling the guard on duty during the escape. Then they killed several more people in the shootings. During the chase, 9 bandits were killed, three survivors were returned to the camp, from where, years later, but even before the end of their term, they were released. It remains only once again to swear at the softness and humanity of Stalin's justice.
            Nobody disputes that out of 12 "heroes" 10 were former military men:
            7 people - Vlasovites who escaped capital punishment only because after the war the death penalty was abolished in the USSR. Two of them - policemen who voluntarily switched to the service of the Germans (one of them rose to the rank of chief of the village police), escaped execution or a noose for the same reason. And only one - a former naval officer who had two criminal convictions before the war and was sent to a camp for the murder of a police officer under aggravated circumstances - is a typical victim of the Great Terror.
        2. citizen
          citizen 9 November 2021 11: 25
          -9
          Quote: Gardamir
          Repression has existed since the days of Ancient Babylon to today's democracies. Democratic repression will be worse.

          Where else in the 600th century were more than XNUMX thousand people killed in a year? And in violation of the current Constitution by decrees of illegal bodies?
          1. Fitter65
            Fitter65 9 November 2021 11: 38
            +4
            Quote: burger
            Where else in the 600th century were more than XNUMX thousand people killed in a year? And in violation of the current Constitution by decrees of illegal bodies?

            Yes, it is very interesting, and in which country more than 600 (six hundred thousand) people were deprived of their lives in a year? In the USSR, according to estimates, from 000 to 1921, about 1953 death sentences were carried out. But again, everything is according to the legislation that existed at that time ...
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 9 November 2021 12: 40
              +1
              Quote: Fitter65
              But again, everything is according to the legislation that existed at that time ...

              what And the judicial troikas in which Soviet law were they spelled out?
              1. Old electrician
                Old electrician 9 November 2021 15: 01
                +7
                And the judicial troikas in which Soviet law were they spelled out?

                Troikas of the NKVD of the USSR carried out their activities in accordance with the Operational Order of the People's Commissar of Internal Affairs of the USSR of July 30, 1937 No. 00447 "On the operation to repress former kulaks, criminals and other anti-Soviet elements." Canceled November 1, 1938.
                The only document that provides official statistics on political court sentences is an official letter from the Minister of Internal Affairs Sergei Kruglov, Prosecutor General of the USSR Roman Rudenko and Minister of Justice Konstantin Gorshenin, sent to Khrushchev in February 1954:
                According to the data available in the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs, for the period from 1921 to the present, 3 people were convicted of counter-revolutionary crimes by the OGPU Collegium, NKVD troikas, a Special Meeting, the Military Collegium, courts and military tribunals, including: to capital punishment - 777 people, to detention in camps and prisons for a period of 380 years and below - 642 people, to exile and deportation - 980 people.
                Out of the total number of those arrested, tentatively convicted: 2 900 000 people - by the OGPU College, NKVD troika and Special Meeting; 877 000 people - courts, military tribunals, the Special Collegium and the Military Collegium.
                Currently, in camps and prisons there are prisoners convicted of counter-revolutionary crimes - 467946 people and, in addition, are in exile after serving their sentence for counter-revolutionary crimes directed by the directive of the Ministry of State Security and the Prosecutor's Office of the USSR (signed by Abakumov and Safonov), - 62462 human
                .
                Those. the figure of 3777380 people convicted under Art. 58 of the Criminal Code, of which 642980 were sentenced to death not for a year, but for the period from 1921 to 1954, i.e. for 33 years.
                There was not even a hint that these 3777380 people were completely innocent victims of political repression in the letter. It should be specially noted that the period from 1921 to 1954 was also 1941-1945. Officially, during the war years, 120 thousand criminals were shot by military tribunals. Considering the scale of collaboration (then a lot of scoundrels got out) the fairness of the absolute majority of these sentences is beyond doubt. Accordingly, only 522980 death sentences remain for the pre-war and post-war years. We add that 522980 people sentenced to death does not mean 522980 people were executed. Because the sentence was not always carried out.
                After Stalin's death, Khrushchev began to prepare his famous report for the XNUMXth Congress of the CPSU, and he needed figures of repression that could horrify the public. However, there were no high-profile figures in the letter, it was not possible to scare with such figures, therefore it was not sounded in the report at the congress and it was put under the rug.
                Khrushchev at any cost needed lies about the horrific scale of the repression. To do this, he appointed a commission of his sycophant Pospelov, which, among other things, gave a certain general "assessment" of the scale of the repressions.
                POSPELOV Pyotr Nikolaevich (1898-1979), Soviet statesman and politician, historian, academician of the USSR Academy of Sciences (1953), Hero of Socialist Labor (1958). 1953-1960 Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee. Member of the Central Committee of the CPSU in 1939-71. Candidate member of the Presidium of the CPSU Central Committee in 1957-61. Works on the history of the CPSU. USSR State Prize (1943).
                Looking at the ceiling and not referring to the archives, Pospelov concocted a lime tree that in only two years (1937 - 1938) 1548366 people were arrested on charges of anti-Soviet activities, 681692 of them were shot. It is noteworthy that all of them, according to Pospelov, are innocent victims of political repression ... It is impressive that according to the "data" of the commission, the number of innocent people shot in two years exceeds the number of death sentences in 33 years from an official letter. So it was not in vain that Pospelov received the high title of Hero of Socialist Labor.
                However, even these false numbers did not satisfy Khrushchev. Therefore, of all the “materials” “collected” by Pospelov at the congress, only figures on the executions of senior party officials were voiced. As a matter of fact, it was precisely the protection of these bosses that Khrushchev was concerned about. He didn't give a damn about innocent peasants.
                After the Pospelov commission and to this day there has not been a single official attempt to assess the scale of repression and the number of innocent repressed from the archives. Therefore, any other documents on "repression", except for the letter mentioned, are of a speculative and propagandistic nature. Since they have nothing to do with the collection of information in the archives of the special services.
                In pursuit.
                The first thing that Alexander III Alexandrovich did - the Emperor of All Russia, the Tsar of Poland and the Grand Duke of Finland, who received the nickname "Peacemaker" from sycophants after his accession to the throne, was to create a "Special Conference".
                Special meeting at the Ministry of the Interior (created in 1881) - to consider cases of anti-state activities. According to article 34, the provisions on state protection could sentence to exile "to remote places of the empire" for up to 5 years. There are no statistics on the activities of the Special Conference of the Tsar "Peacemaker" due to the imposition of only unprotected sentences.
                STOLYPIN TIE - the common name of the gallows loop. During the suppression of the first Russian revolution of 1905-1907 and later, the death penalty was widely used, including by hanging, especially by punitive detachments. This name was given to the gallows after the chairman of the Council of Ministers P.A.Stolypin, deified by modern liberals.
                Any statistics of executions at that time are completely absent for the same reason as in the case of the Special Meeting. Those. only unrecorded sentences were passed. Any peasant who went to work and did not have documents with him could be hacked to the gallows. In passing, I will note that at that time the peasants did not have any documents at all. Their passports were replaced by certificates from the local village authorities. This is to the question of Yaroslavna's mourning due to the lack of passports of the Soviet peasants.
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 10 November 2021 07: 18
                  -1
                  Quote: Old electrician
                  Troikas of the NKVD of the USSR carried out their activities in accordance with the Operational Order of the People's Commissar of Internal Affairs of the USSR of July 30, 1937 No. 00447

                  Those. NKVD troikas were created ILLEGALLY! 2 people have suffered ILLEGALLY! The rest, written by you, is just historical rubbish playing the role of justifying one or another subject!
                2. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 10 November 2021 16: 10
                  0
                  Troikas of the NKVD of the USSR carried out their activities in accordance with the Operational Order of the People's Commissar of Internal Affairs of the USSR of July 30, 1937 No. 00447 "On the operation to repress former kulaks, criminals and other anti-Soviet elements." Canceled on November 1, 1938. It turns out that these guys were given the right at their discretion to decide who to arrest, accuse of kulaks, accuse of anti-Soviet actions, and the fact that not everyone in the NKVD was white and fluffy, the fact that they could not report their actions on the ground at all to freely do lawlessness, since no supervisory bodies over them there were given a plan to dispossess so much and to plant so much, but the fact that there are so many in place, the authorities did not care about them and did it by all means.
            2. citizen
              citizen 9 November 2021 17: 03
              -2
              Quote: Fitter65
              Yes, it is very interesting, and in which country more than 600 (six hundred thousand) people were deprived of their lives in a year? In the USSR, according to estimates, from 000 to 1921, about 1953 death sentences were carried out. But again, everything is according to the legislation that existed at that time ...

              According to this certificate, 681 692 people were sentenced to VMN in a little over a year during the period of the "Great Terror"

              Most of these sentences were passed by troikas, extrajudicial bodies created by order of the NKVD. According to the constitution in force at that time, justice in the USSR was administered by courts (a list of courts was attached). There were no triplets on that list. According to the same constitution, the trial was held openly, in the presence of the accused, with the provision of a defense lawyer. All these points were violated in the course of the triplets' activities. This alone is enough for the rehabilitation of all convicts in triplets, since their guilt has not been proven in the manner prescribed by law.
              1. Looking for
                Looking for 9 November 2021 17: 42
                +2
                you know how many such "references" you can draw.?!?!
                1. citizen
                  citizen 9 November 2021 20: 56
                  0
                  You can draw anything, but you cannot make a historical document out of your art that is recognized by all serious researchers and will not be stored in the State Archives of the Russian Federation, and will not be exhibited by this archive
                  http://portal.rusarchives.ru/evants/exhibitions/xxconvention_f.shtml
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 9 November 2021 21: 09
                    -2
                    Quote: burger
                    http://portal.rusarchives.ru/evants/exhibitions/xxconvention_f.shtml

                    And where is it exhibited there?
                    1. citizen
                      citizen 9 November 2021 21: 12
                      -1
                      http://portal.rusarchives.ru/evants/exhibitions/xxconvention_exp.shtml

                      Here
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 9 November 2021 23: 19
                        0
                        Quote: burger
                        Here

                        I looked. Only I have strong doubts.
                        1) If you look at these tables, it turns out that in two years it was shot 6 times more than in 20 years. Why exactly then? Collectivization, dispossession, war, all these are just those 20 years.
                        2) The very form of recording. There were no computers back then, but there were typewriters? And here everything is by hand. plus such certificates must have an official status, but there are no details. What did you write on your knee?
                        This is much more like a document.
                      2. citizen
                        citizen 10 November 2021 00: 44
                        +2
                        Study such a document
                        https://istmat.info/node/14956

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        1) If you look at these tables, it turns out that in two years it was shot 6 times more than in 20 years. Why exactly then? Collectivization, dispossession, war, all these are just those 20 years.

                        Question questions
                        "The intensification of the class struggle with the construction of socialism"
                        It seems to me paranoia.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        2) The very form of recording. There were no computers back then, but there were typewriters? And here everything is by hand. plus such certificates must have an official status, but there are no details. What did you write on your knee?

                        You need to be able to type.
                      3. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 November 2021 20: 01
                        0
                        Quote: burger
                        You need to be able to type.

                        Do you think that the KGB did not have any typewriter?
                        Quote: burger
                        Study such a document
                        https://istmat.info/node/14956

                        This is the same, only reprinted.
                        Quote: burger
                        Question questions

                        Or really an attempt to stage a coup.
                      4. citizen
                        citizen 11 November 2021 00: 40
                        0
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Do you think that the KGB did not have any typewriter?

                        There were, but they could have been cleared. Do you know how late the Japanese diplomats were with the declaration of war on December 7, 1941?
                        These are all fantasies, I am not a historian. I read the works of historians, they refer to the State Archives of the Russian Federation. This document was exhibited at an exhibition in this very archive. If you are not a supporter of conspiracy theories, there is no reason not to trust this document.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        This is the same, only reprinted.

                        Take a closer look, this is a different document.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Or really an attempt to stage a coup.

                        By whom? Stalin?
                      5. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 11 November 2021 19: 24
                        0
                        Quote: burger
                        There were, but they could have been cleared.

                        Believe me, those who work with sorting and paperwork always have the highest tolerance.
                        Quote: burger

                        By whom? Stalin?

                        No against Stalin.
                  2. Old electrician
                    Old electrician 10 November 2021 07: 06
                    0
                    You can draw anything, but you cannot make a historical document out of your art that is recognized by all serious researchers and will not be stored in the State Archives of the Russian Federation, and will not be exhibited by this archive
                    - gee-gee-gee! Everything is possible in a Russophobic state. After the "Special folder" on Katyn, the archival service of the Russian Federation is completely discredited. Therefore, not a single electronic copy of a document can be trusted without a forensic examination. However, we will never see a forensic examination of your "certificate". If we talk about its content, then I will refer to https://vk.com/wall-85064296_379854
                    Universe of Non-Loving Tales
                    23 2020 June
                    Who are you, Mr. Pavlov?
                    Here in the comments to the video about the war criminal Kolchak (https://vk.com/wall-85064296_379195) one would-be opponent presented "irrefutable proof" (see 1 photo) of the victims of "Stalinism" (what a terrible word). I would like to share my doubts about the reliability of this document. So, upload the photo, and what do we see here? Some kind of multi-colored table! pencils! by hand! Moreover, the lines "1937-1938" are highlighted in bold to make it look ominous (only the bloody spots on the letterhead are missing). Truly a state certificate made at the highest level in accordance with all the rules of office work! Moreover, the certificate is called "on the number of people convicted in NKVD cases for 1937-1938," while the table itself indicates the period from 1921 to 1938. Truly, this document, made on a specific request, will not undermine the mosquito's nose! And, like the height of insanity, on this scribble the signature of the acting Chief of the 1st Special Department Pavlov! By the way, you see the seal that holds the signature of the acting president. chief? So I don’t see. And it should be (In the voice of Garmash: -You see the seal? -No. -And it is.) Note, the initials of the colonel were prudently hidden by the writers of this linden more than this level, the surname MUST be with initials and typed in typewritten font. And it's not even funny that not a single chief of any level will sign such a scribble made on his knee, at least purely for formal reasons, but that no acting director. the chief of the 1st special department Pavlov did not exist then!
                    Let's consider from this moment in more detail, and with proofs. From October 7, 1953 to March 17, 1954, the 1st Special Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs was headed by Lieutenant Colonel Yakov Alekseevich PLETNEV (see 2 photos), and about no acting. The head of the 1st SB of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Pavlova is not mentioned in official sources AT ALL (proof-http: //shieldandsword.mozohin.ru/VD3462/structure/1so.htm).
                    All that could be found from official sources about a person with such a surname is that a certain Ivan Maksimovich Pavlov headed from 1948 to 1950 the 1st special department of the NKVD for the Moscow Region (https: //50.mvd.rf/folder/6637443). But 1 SB UNKVD MO is not exactly 1 SB MVD, and 1949 is not at all 1953, and there is no proof that this is the same Pavlov.
                    So where did you come from, mysterious Mr. Pavlov? The search engine for the request "Acting Chief of the 1st SB MVD Pavlov" did not give out a single link to official sources of the MVD or state archives indicating the existence of a certain Acting Chief of the 1st SB MVD Pavlov in 1954 (no other than Beria posthumously personally destroyed). But he gave a bunch of links to the mountain to all sorts of dubious "historical" sites - https://alexanderyakovlev.org/fond/issues-doc/1009312, http://istmat.info/node/57800, https: //fish12a.livejournal .com / 1691357.html, http://avkrasn.ru/article-3667.html. These sites host this "document" in electronic form and do not hesitate to change the data in the table to their liking. But, what is noteworthy, they prudently do not post a screen of this pornography (pornography (from ancient Greek πόρνη "prostitute; fornication" + γράφω "I write, draw, describe"; πόρνη <πέρνημι "I sell"). Studying these sites, we understand where the legs of this fake "grow": site administrators, under electronic copies of this "document", refer exclusively to one source - to the archive of the NIPTs "Memorial", notorious for its falsifications (a subsidiary of CJSC "ROC" for real estate fraud and money laundering- https://youtu.be/lMYYsHAQruk), but not in any way to the archives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or the Federal Archival Agency, which gives the author of this article the right to assert that this malyava, called "certificate of the number of people convicted in the affairs of the NKVD organs" is nothing more than a fruit a sick fantasy of the founders of the Memorial, not a drop weighed down by either conscience or intellect.

                    I would like to add that before Perestroika the number of those convicted and executed was classified as "Secret". On the pornographic certificate, there is not even a stamp “For official use”. It is also noteworthy that it contains a fake figure from the results of the "investigation" of the Pospelov commission. In fact, this pseudo-reference is a copy of this report. Here are just a pornographic reference dated 1953, and Pospelov's 1956 report is a clear anochronism.
                    The party commission, known as the "Pospelov Commission", was established on December 31, 1955 to clarify the issue of political repressions against leading party, state and military leaders. The report was prepared in a month !!! And this is in the absence of the Internet and DPC (Information System Data Center). Archives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, troikas, special meetings, etc. were available separately in each district and region. Pospelov would not have had time to send requests there in a month, not to mention the answers to them and their systematization. Once again I will repeat Pospelov's report as a propaganda linden.
                    I show how such references are obtained using your example. 15 minutes of work with paint and voila! There are even sites where such fakes are made for money. Russophobes from the Memorial, etc. organizations receive grants of millions and sculpt such "certificates" in batches. The beauty is that such “evidence of crime” does not exist in material form on paper.
                    1. jurijsv
                      jurijsv 14 December 2021 17: 52
                      0
                      What is this nonsense? When did Beria become the head of the NKVD? What does 1937 have to do with it?
              2. Fitter65
                Fitter65 9 November 2021 23: 47
                0
                Quote: burger
                According to this certificate, 681 692 people were sentenced to VMN in a little over a year during the period of the "Great Terror"

                It's clear. You will also post a certificate about 240 million convicts and then the puzzle will come together.
                1. finnbogi
                  finnbogi 19 January 2022 00: 01
                  0
                  where do such gifted people come from who don’t know anything about the most terrible events in the history of their own country, and even joke on their bones
          2. Kayala
            Kayala 9 November 2021 13: 31
            0
            What home for the insane are you broadcasting from? Where did you accumulate nonsense about 600 thousand people shot in a year? During the entire period of Stalin's rule, about 680 thousand death sentences were passed. And if you dig into any business, then in 99 percent of cases the death penalty was carried out deservedly.
            1. ViacheslavS
              ViacheslavS 9 November 2021 16: 02
              +1
              During the entire period of Stalin's rule, about 680 thousand death sentences were passed.

              Just a terrible figure.

              And if you dig into any case, then in 99 percent of cases the death penalty was carried out deservedly.

              Any ghouls like Yazhov, Yagoda, etc., of course.
              1. Kayala
                Kayala 9 November 2021 16: 05
                0
                Ask how many convicts are in the prisons of "the most democratic country in the world" and how many death sentences are passed there. There is definitely horror. So don't bark from under the broom ...
                1. ViacheslavS
                  ViacheslavS 9 November 2021 16: 09
                  0
                  And here is "the most democratic country in the world", by the way, they call your technique whataboutism. By the way, even among them, I'm not sure that over two years of repression, 600 thousand death sentences were passed.
                  1. Kayala
                    Kayala 9 November 2021 16: 30
                    0
                    Tell me, are you generally sane? Or hit on the head by Ogonyok magazine? 600 thousand is not for a year or even two, it is FOR ALL the time of Stalin's rule! And this is the Civil and the Second World War, how many after these two wars have they got out of all sorts of dirt, from ordinary criminals to traitors and policemen? Or did they not deserve a death sentence?
                    Where did so many "gifted" come from?
                    1. ViacheslavS
                      ViacheslavS 9 November 2021 18: 54
                      -1
                      Tell me, are you generally sane? Or hit on the head by Ogonyok magazine? 600 thousand is not for a year or even two, it is FOR ALL the time of Stalin's rule!

                      Sorry, but here it would be like to check your sanity and competence, for two years of repression 600 thousand death sentences were passed. In other years, much less. And in total there were about 650-700 thousand death sentences during the entire period of Stalin's rule.


                      And this is both the Civil and the Second World War, how many after these two wars have they got out of all sorts of dirt, from ordinary criminals to traitors and policemen? Or did they not deserve a death sentence?


                      I agree in the USSR, the whole history is the rule of "traitors", immediately after Lenin's death the second person in the party turned out to be a traitor, by the way Stalin also turned out to be the same, according to his contemporaries, including Molotov, when they voted to remove the body from the Mausoleum.
                    2. Serg65
                      Serg65 10 November 2021 07: 52
                      +2
                      Quote: Kayala
                      FOR ALL the time of Stalin's rule! And this is both Civil and WWII

                      Hey Broom, and in the civilian, the same Stalin led the country?
                      Quote: Kayala
                      How many after these two wars have they picked up all kinds of filth, ranging from ordinary criminals to traitors and policemen?

                      Antonov-Ovseenko, party member since 1902.
                      Berzin, party member since 1902.
                      Bubnov, party member since 1903.
                      Bukharin, party member since 1906.
                      Ganetsky, party member since 1907.
                      Goloshchekin, party member since 1903.
                      Evdokimov, party member since 1903.
                      Yenukidze. member of the Social Democratic movement since 1898.
                      Zinoviev, party member since 1901.
                      Ioffe
                      Kamenev
                      Karakhan
                      Krylenko
                      Those. do you think they were traitors and policemen?
                      You claim that the Great October Revolution was organized by traitors, criminals and policemen ????
                      Quote: Kayala
                      Where did so many "gifted" come from?
                      1. Old electrician
                        Old electrician 10 November 2021 09: 59
                        0
                        After the civil war in the RCP (b) a stratum of hurray-revolutionaries arose, which could not imagine itself in a peaceful life. The war gave them everything - power, impunity, a beautiful life and reverence for hangers-on. Of course, they did not go into a bayonet attack, but each of them imagined himself at least the Leader of the world proletariat, so it was impossible to unite them under one banner. They were only related by hatred of Lenin and Stalin with their idiotic ideas of adherence to the law and building socialism in one country. Only the disunity of these jingoistic revolutionaries gave Stalin a chance.
                        Trotsky, a born orator capable of hypnotizing any crowd (this is a fact, not a joke), and a mediocre administrator was one of these cheerleaders. After the war, the rallies ended and people like Trotsky began to rapidly lose popularity. How it would end is unknown, but Trotsky put the ideological base under the general wishes of the hurray revolutionaries in time: the USSR is running ahead, Stalin is a traitor to the World Revolution, and therefore the USSR must be destroyed along with Stalin at any cost. The funny thing is that in his fight against Stalin and the USSR, Trotsky referred to the authority of Lenin. A quote from L. Trotsky. Economic adventurism and its dangers. February 13, 1930 Bulletin of the opposition (Bolshevik-Leninists) No. 9 ":
                        … Again and again we resolutely abandon the task of building "in the shortest possible time" a National Socialist society. We associate collectivization, as well as industrialization, with the problems of the World Revolution. The issues of our economy are ultimately decided in the international arena. The Comintern must be revived. It is necessary to revise the revolutionary strategy of the post-Leninist era and condemn it in all its three periods: Zinoviev, Bukharin-Stalin, and Stalin-Molotov. The current leadership must be liquidated, for it is in the field of international questions that the Stalinist faction reaches such limits of theoretical cynicism and practical unbridledness that threaten the proletarian vanguard with innumerable calamities. The rejection of the theory of National Socialism and the practice of bureaucratic adventurism is an elementary precondition for the revival of the Communist International ...

                        According to Trotsky, the USSR had to get involved in any wars for the sake of the World Revolution and constantly provoke social conflicts in the country. "Permanent Revolution" is called:
                        ... The second aspect of the "Permanent" theory already characterizes the socialist revolution as such. Over an indefinite period of time and in constant internal struggle, all social relations are rebuilt. Society is constantly shedding. One stage of transformation follows directly from the other. This process, by necessity, retains a political character, i.e. unfolds through the collisions of different groups of the rebuilding society. Explosions of civil war and external wars alternate with periods of "peaceful" reforms. The revolutions of economy, technology, knowledge, family, everyday life, morals, unfold in complex interaction with each other, preventing society from achieving equilibrium. This is the permanent character of the socialist revolution as such ...
                        - Gorby calls it Perestroika.
                        The goal of Perestroika, sorry, Permanent Revolution is the elimination of the USSR. To do this, you need to "tighten the screws" on the population so that it itself climbs the barricades. Then pushing this counter and tightening the nuts again to the victorious end - a holiday without end.
                        Everyone remembers how the screws were tightened during Perestroika. Well, in 1937, those who like to tighten the screws and live beautifully under the flag of the struggle for the World Revolution were massively unscrewed.
                        The story of Abel Yenukidze can be taken as a typical example of the blow of Stalin's repressions against "revolutionaries with pre-revolutionary experience" in 1937. He is a professional revolutionary, since October 1918, a member of the Presidium and secretary of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee, from December 1922 to March 1935, secretary of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR. In February 1937 he was arrested and on October 30 of the same year he was shot by the verdict of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR. The Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR (VKVS) is a union body of the Supreme Court of the USSR, which considered cases of exceptional importance in relation to the highest commanding staff of the army and navy (corps commander and above), as well as those accused of treason and counter-revolutionary activities. She also supervised the work of military tribunals.
                        Why did such a prominent revolutionary suffer? On June 5-7, 1935, at a meeting of the Plenum of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks), among other topics, the issue "On the staff of the Secretariat of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR and Comrade A. Yenukidze" was considered. The Plenary Resolution of June 7, 1935 stated:
                        1. To approve the measures taken by the control bodies to check and improve the official apparatus of the Secretariat of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR.
                        2. For the political and everyday corruption of the former CEC secretary comrade. A. Yenukidze to withdraw him from the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) and expel him from the ranks of the CPSU (b).
                        In 1937, Yenukidze became the central figure in the Kremlin affair. He was accused of treason and espionage. He was also accused of participating in the "military-fascist conspiracy in the Red Army" ("Tukhachevsky-Yakir case"), which aimed to carry out a military coup in the USSR and overthrow the power of the Bolshevik Party. Yenukidze was one of the key figures in this conspiracy: he recruited the commandant of the Kremlin R.A. Peterson, who was instructed by the conspirators to train personnel for the capture of the Kremlin at the time of the start of the military coup.
                        Now there is a heated debate over whether these conspiracies were in fact, or all this is just fiction and the machinations of Stalin. I will not delve into this. I will only name what is not disputed by anyone - Yenukidze was a lover of a beautiful life and a sexual pervert. Maria Svanidze (wife of Alyosha Svanidze, brother of I. Stalin's first wife), who was part of Stalin's family circle, wrote in her diary on June 28, 1935:
                        Abel, undoubtedly, sitting in such a position, had a tremendous influence on our life for 17 years after the revolution. Being himself depraved and voluptuous, he smelled everything around him: he enjoyed pimping, family discord, seduction of girls. Having in his hands all the blessings of life, unattainable for everyone, especially in the first years after the revolution, he used all this for personal dirty purposes, buying women and girls. Sick to talk and write about it. Being erotically abnormal and, obviously, not one hundred percent man, every year he switched to more and more young and finally came to girls at the age of 9-11, corrupting their imaginations, corrupting them, if not physically, then morally. This is the foundation of all the outrage that happened around him. Women with suitable daughters owned everything. Girls, as unnecessary, slipped into other men, more unstable morally. The staff was recruited into the institution only by gender, which Abel liked. To justify his debauchery, he was ready to encourage him in everything: he walked widely towards his husband, who had abandoned his family, children, or simply brought his husband together with an unnecessary ballerina, typist, etc. , secretaries, friends and acquaintances - from the theatrical world) ". These words were confirmed by the testimony of other participants in the "Kremlin case".

                        Under Khrushchev, on October 3, 1959, Abel Yenukidze was posthumously rehabilitated by the same HCVS of the USSR as an innocent victim of Stalinist repressions, and in 1960 he was reinstated as a member of the Communist Party. I deliberately write the phrase "Communist Party" here with a small letter because it was no longer the same Communist Party - the RCP (b), whose ideology won the Great Patriotic War. In that pre-Khrushchev RCP (b) there was simply no place for pedophiles.
                      2. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 10 November 2021 16: 20
                        +2
                        "Leader of the world proletariat" - Well, the leaders of the world proletariat who have never worked in factories and factories, and in general have never really worked anywhere with their hands.
                      3. Serg65
                        Serg65 11 November 2021 07: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: Old electrician
                        They were related only by hatred of Lenin and Stalin.

                        what And which of the Bolsheviks in the early 20s hated Lenin and Stalin?
                        Quote: Old electrician
                        Trotsky, a born orator capable of hypnotizing any crowd (this is a fact, not a joke), and a mediocre administrator was one of these cheerleaders.

                        belay How could a "mediocre administrator" organize the October Revolution and create a Red Army ???
                        what Dear, who are you writing this for? Summer is over and active VO commentators have already sat down at their desks ... so you, Victor, were late with your proclamations! Well, I don't need to write this nonsense!
            2. citizen
              citizen 9 November 2021 17: 32
              -3
              Quote: Kayala
              What home for the insane are you broadcasting from?

              Obviously not from the one in which you are provided with the necessary assistance.
              Quote: Kayala
              Where did you accumulate nonsense about 600 thousand people shot in a year?

              From the certificate of the special department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR on the number of people convicted on the affairs of the NKVD for 1937-38. (see above).
              Quote: Kayala
              During the entire period of Stalin's rule, about 680 thousand death sentences were passed.

              You are wrong, for the entire period 780 thousand, 680 only for the "great terror"

              Quote: Kayala
              And if you dig into any case, then in 99 percent of cases the death penalty was carried out deservedly.

              If you dig in, you will find that the majority were condemned without any deeds only for the fact that they were once registered in the NKVD credentials into kulaks of 1 or 2 categories, or because they are Poles or Greeks (plus a couple of dozen other nationalities).
              1. Fitter65
                Fitter65 9 November 2021 23: 54
                -1
                Quote: burger
                From the certificate of the special department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR on the number of people convicted on the affairs of the NKVD for 1937-38. (see above).

                True, the designer did not know averno how such "certificates" are drawn up and what attributes should be on them. You just tell me where and under what number such a self-made document is stored. Just as V.I. Lenin - The main problem with quotes from the Internet is that people immediately believe in their authenticity ..
                1. citizen
                  citizen 10 November 2021 00: 07
                  +2
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  You just tell me where and under what number such a self-made document is stored.

                  GA RF. F. P-9401. Op. 1.D. 4157. L. 201-205.
                2. grak33
                  grak33 10 November 2021 00: 08
                  -3
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  You just tell me where and under what number such a self-made document is stored.

                  Archive: State Archive of the Russian Federation. F. 9401. Op. 1.D. 4157.L. 201-205. Script. Manuscript.
                  Explore: https://istmat.info/node/57800
                  1. Fitter65
                    Fitter65 10 November 2021 00: 36
                    -1
                    Quote: grak33
                    https://istmat.info/node/57800

                    Studied. AND ? Comrade for one year drove everything that was possible. So everything is fine. For the previous 6 years 40137 for the next 14 years 4850. When necessary, we did not do such documents.
                    1. citizen
                      citizen 10 November 2021 01: 03
                      0
                      Learn more here
                      http://istmat.info/node/14934
                      1st category is shooting
                      Or here
                      http://istmat.info/node/14956
                      and here
                      http://istmat.info/node/14958
                      1. Fitter65
                        Fitter65 10 November 2021 06: 41
                        -1
                        And where did they write
                        during the war years, 120 thousand criminals were shot by military tribunals.
                        if we study and see that for 1939-53 = 14 years = 4850. where did these 120 write? http://istmat.info/node/000 we look from October 14956, 1 to July 1936, 1, we see that 1938 556 were already sentenced to the VMN, this is in 259 months, for 21 months 7 1938 207 were sentenced. / node / 978 for 57800 -1937 we get 1938. Different authors have different data. In general, as best he could, he tried to help Khrushchev. Two documents, as it were, from an archive, but the data doesn't exactly fit together, they don't even stand next to each other. Good luck and not to be fired upon.
                      2. citizen
                        citizen 10 November 2021 12: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Fitter65
                        if we study and see that for 1939-53 = 14 years = 4850. where did these 120 write?

                        Where did you see 4850? 54283 were shot from 39 to 53. This does not include those convicted by military tribunals.
                    2. grak33
                      grak33 10 November 2021 10: 11
                      -4
                      Quote: Fitter65
                      so that everything is fine.

                      Do you know for whom the destruction of compatriots is normal?

                      Quote: Fitter65
                      For the previous 6 years 40137

                      These are only those who lived to see the trial.
                      And in the USSR, pre-trial executions were widely practiced.

                      Quote: Fitter65
                      When necessary, we did not do such documents.

                      You not only did the documents. You also destroyed the population of the USSR. Different ways.
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 10 November 2021 16: 25
                0
                These are the officially convicted shot and how many were unofficially "convicted" on the ground and how many died during clashes with the NKVD in the period from 1928 to 1940?
          3. ivan2022
            ivan2022 22 November 2021 09: 42
            0
            Quote: burger
            Quote: Gardamir
            Repression has existed since the days of Ancient Babylon to today's democracies. Democratic repression will be worse.

            Where else in the 600th century were more than XNUMX thousand people killed in a year? And in violation of the current Constitution by decrees of illegal bodies?


            Well...? Is this a crime of the State and authorities or a crime against the State and authorities? Somehow you have a pause at the most interesting place. And it is impossible to understand the meaning of your judgment .... I already wrote above. that our society is characterized by a lack of understanding that a crime against government is a violation of laws
            States.
      2. Konnick
        Konnick 9 November 2021 07: 38
        +2
        Mekhlis, a man of great personal courage, but as a military absolute wooden to the waist, as a result of the Crimean catastrophe


        Why do you accuse Mehlis, he was not in command, he was a political worker, although he was a representative of the General Headquarters, and he did everything possible, Stalin accused him of not taking command of himself. But control and communications had already been lost by that time. There, without him, there were enough "experienced" generals who for 2-3 months did not change the location of their headquarters and communication centers, which greatly facilitated the Germans to disrupt troop command and control. Manstein gathered all the attack aircraft from the Southern Group of Forces against the Crimean Front, which terrorized our armies for 2 days. And having done the job, we went to Kharkov to do the same with the South-Western Front.
        From "RATE DIRECTIVE VGK ​​No. 155452"

        ... Contrary to this experience, the command of the Crimean Front in the very first hours of the enemy's offensive let go of command and control. For a long time, the command of the front and armies did not change their command posts, as a result of which the enemy, knowing the location of these points, bombed these points with the first air raid, disrupted wire communications at the command posts of the front and army headquarters and upset communication centers, and radio communications, due to the criminal negligence of the headquarters the front was in the corral. The headquarters of the armies were unprepared for the use of other means of communication.
        1. Finches
          Finches 9 November 2021 08: 14
          +1
          No Mekhlis is to blame, just like Kozlov and Kulik ... For 12 days of fighting, out of 250 thousand personnel, to lose 160 and to destroy the front, this must be contrived!
        2. Shiden
          Shiden 9 November 2021 08: 55
          +1
          It is Mekhlis who is to blame for the defeat of the Crimean Front. After all, there was an examination of the reasons for the defeat of the front. It's just that Mehlis was closer to Stalin than a general. After all, the commander gave the order to build a shelter and the second and third lines of defense, but Mehlis accused him of alarmism. And Mehlis was able to submit to Stalin a report denigrating Kozlov. After all, the commander was punished and not Mehlis.
        3. Serg65
          Serg65 9 November 2021 10: 01
          +1
          Quote: Konnick
          he was a political worker, although he was a representative of the Headquarters

          First, he was a representative of the rate, and then a political worker!
          Quote: Konnick
          and he did his best

          What is it?
          Quote: Konnick
          Stalin accused him of not taking command.

          Can you tell us more about this? As far as I know, everything was on the contrary!
          1. Konnick
            Konnick 9 November 2021 10: 44
            +1
            Can you tell us more about this? As far as I know, everything was on the contrary!

            More details? Here

            https://newsland-com.turbopages.org/turbo/newsland.com/s/community/129/content/o-krasnom-arakcheeve-ili-neskolko-slov-v-zashchitu-lva-mekhlisa/1465777

            On May 8, 1942, the day of the start of the German offensive, Mehlis sent a telegram to Stalin in which he wrote: “Now is not the time to complain, but I must report so that Stavka knows the front commander. On May 7, that is, on the eve of the enemy's offensive, Kozlov convened a military council to discuss a project for a future operation to capture Koi-Aksan. I recommended that this project be postponed and immediately give instructions to the armies in connection with the expected enemy offensive. In a signed order, the front commander pointed out in several places that the offensive was expected on May 10-15, and proposed to work through May 10 and study the army defense plan with all command personnel, commanders of formations and headquarters. This was done when the whole situation of the past day showed that the enemy would attack in the morning. "

            How does the commander of the Crimean front behave:?! - All the data hit right in the eye - on May 8, the Germans will begin an offensive, and he indicates in an order to the front - by May 10, everyone should work out a defense plan that should have been ready a long time ago. He must always be ready and only in the course of action to be corrected depending on the situation.

            In response to his telegram, in which he once again asked to replace Kozlov, Mekhlis received a very famous message from Stalin: “You adhere to the strange position of an outside observer, not responsible for the affairs of the Crimean Front. This position is very comfortable, but it is rotten through and through. On the Crimean front, you are not an outside observer, but a responsible representative of the Headquarters, responsible for all the successes and failures of the front and obliged to correct the mistakes of the command on the spot. You, together with the command, are responsible for the fact that the left flank of the front turned out to be extremely weak. If “the whole situation showed that the enemy would attack in the morning,” and you did not take all measures to organize a rebuff, confining yourself to passive criticism, then so much the worse for you. This means that you have not yet realized that you were sent to the Crimean Front not as the State Control, but as a responsible representative of the Headquarters.

            You demand that we replace Kozlov with someone like Hindenburg. But you must know that we do not have the Hindenburgs in reserve .. "

            Formally, it turns out that Mekhlis seems to have deservedly received “for nuts”. Especially considering that Stalin then recalled him from the front and demoted him. In fact, something else happened. Stalin was angry that at the most crucial moment Mehlis, who saw perfectly well that Kozlov was simply not coping with his duties as a front commander, did not switch command to himself. It is also possible and necessary to understand Mehlis. After all, the headquarters representative had no right to completely replace the front commander. He was obliged to help him, and nothing more. And Kozlov, meanwhile, settled down very cleverly - since Mekhlis cares about everything, well, let him be responsible for everything. Kozlov got his from Stalin. And how I got it! But he is not remembered as the primary culprit for the failure of the Crimean Front. All the cones are being thrown on Mehlis's head. And not because, unlike the front, he was desperately trying to turn the tide of the wild mess that led to the tragedy. And only because he openly demanded to replace General Kozlov for open professional unsuitability. That is, for the fact that he simply encroached on the holy of holies of the generals - a general can be free in military affairs with an oak tree, but no one has the right to raise a hand to the general's status. That is why in the post-war period all the responsibility was dumped on Mehlis. With his demands for a change in commander, he raised the gigantic problem of the professional unsuitability of a significant part of the generals. For that, he was slandered to smithereens.

            Let's sum it up:

            - Mehlis is accused of getting involved in the affairs of the front command;

            - He is also blamed for the fact that in a critical situation NEPROFESSIONAL MECHLIS did not take the initiative and did not take the power to control the troops from PROFESSIONAL KOZLOV.

            On my own I will add that it was already useless to take the leadership into our own hands. Communication was completely absent, the order to Lvov went on for two days, on foot or something. German tanks had already defeated the airfield at Maryevka and set up a front to the north.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 9 November 2021 12: 01
              +1
              Quote: Konnick
              it was already useless to take the leadership into their own hands.

              On April 29, 1942, an officer of the General Staff in the 44th Army, Major A. Zhitnik, in his report to the Chief of Staff of the Crimean Front, prophetically wrote: “It is necessary either to completely withdraw the 63rd Mountain Rifle Division ... to the second echelon (and this is the best) or Its direction is the direction of the enemy's probable blow, and as soon as he accumulates defectors from this division and is convinced of the low morale of this division, he will strengthen his decision to strike in this sector. " Initially, the plan did not provide for the change of division, only the rotation of the regiments within the compound with the withdrawal to rest in the second echelon. The final version, approved on May 3, 1942, assumed the division's withdrawal to the second echelon of the army on May 10-11, two days later than the start of the German offensive. Major Zhitnik was heard, but the measures taken were late.

              On May 8, the German strike fell on this "national" division, I will not focus your attention on the national composition of this division, but I will say one thing ... this division was armed with 4 45mm cannons, 4 76mm divisional guns and 29 maxims .. ... FOR THE WHOLE DIVISION !!!! Kozlov and even more so Mekhlis knew about this, and knew that the Germans would deliver the main blow to this division !!!
              I consider the letter cited by you as a belated attempt to whitewash myself and that's all! By the way, Mehlis will not make such a mistake anywhere else!
              1. Konnick
                Konnick 10 November 2021 08: 34
                0
                On May 8, the German strike fell on this "national" division, I will not focus your attention on the national composition of this division, but I will say one thing ... this division was armed with 4 45mm cannons, 4 76mm divisional guns and 29 maxims .. ... FOR THE WHOLE DIVISION !!!!

                Why be ashamed? Caucasians formed the basis, the commander of the Georgians, like the majority in the division. And as for the weapons ... so this division was defeated by a German infantry company, reinforced by a sapper company, which did not have that either. Of course, aviation helped, and more psychologically, since fighters supported the landing on the beach from rubber motor boats, attack aircraft at that time bombed headquarters and communication centers in other places, but they managed to drive the "fighters" to the bottom of the trenches, who did not even blow up the planted anti-landing bombs on the beach and then surrendered safely.
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 10 November 2021 08: 54
                  +1
                  Quote: Konnick
                  Why be shy?

                  Yes, I'm not ashamed, I just do not support the fashionable trend now in their indiscriminate groaning!
                  1. Konnick
                    Konnick 10 November 2021 08: 57
                    0
                    And the indiscriminate mockery of Mekhlis for the Crimea?
                    1. Serg65
                      Serg65 10 November 2021 09: 17
                      +1
                      Quote: Konnick
                      And the indiscriminate mockery of Mekhlis for the Crimea?

                      I wrote above ... Mekhlis is guilty as a representative of the rate for the collapse of the Crimean Front, as well as Kozlov, as well as PMC Shamanin !!! Stalin put Mehlis on the front not as an overseer, but as a REPRESENTATIVE OF THE VGK ​​BET with all the powers! Why, then, is he not responsible for this defeat?
      3. vvvjak
        vvvjak 9 November 2021 08: 23
        +4
        Quote: Finches
        At the beginning of 1941, more than 570 thousand officers served in the army and navy, and according to historians, 7% of them did not have a higher education! And this is not a small figure! That is, there was no knowledge of how to command the entrusted units, units, formations, formations ...

        Zhukov G.K. there was no higher education, so what?
        1. Finches
          Finches 9 November 2021 09: 06
          0
          Here Zhukov also learned to command in 1941-42! But Georgy Konstantinovich had consistent experience in commanding various units and formations, experience in planning and conducting a large military operation with a large set of troops against the Japanese and the complete defeat of their 23rd Infantry Division of the 6th Separate Army ... Service in the position of NGSh!
          1. vvvjak
            vvvjak 9 November 2021 09: 31
            +1
            So it is not only about higher education, but also about the experience of command and control, which was not there. It turned out that the highest command positions were occupied by people who did not pass the sieve of natural selection on prof. suitability. And there are many reasons for this (revolution, repression, a sharp increase in the size of the Red Army before the beginning of the Second World War, etc.)
            1. Finches
              Finches 9 November 2021 09: 53
              0
              And I wrote about this, but if there were a theoretical higher military education, it would be much easier to adapt to a combat situation! By the way, the difference between the commanders in the first battles was well shown by Simonov in "The Living and the Dead" on the example of General Serpilin!
              1. vvvjak
                vvvjak 9 November 2021 10: 25
                +2
                Quote: Finches
                but be a theoretical higher military education,

                Education, combat experience, relevant moral, psychological and ethical data, etc. The invariable qualities of a good officer, but where are they to be recruited at that time in sufficient numbers? The same Vlasov was educated and had combat experience, but .....
                1. Finches
                  Finches 9 November 2021 10: 29
                  0
                  It is clear that there is a whole complex of reasons in the defeats of the initial stage of the war! And we touched on just one of them!
            2. deddem
              deddem 9 November 2021 10: 07
              +3
              It turned out that the highest command positions were occupied by people who did not pass the sieve of natural selection on prof. suitability.


              By the way, this is also not a guarantee.
              The French in 1940 were entirely combat generals who had gone through the hell of WWI. Did it help them a lot?
              I'm not talking about the savior of Polshchi De Gaulle, who, having become the commander of a tank division, fought in the same, sadly familiar style: sending tanks as they arrived in battalion or even port numbers in frontal attacks, without reconnaissance, without infantry, without artillery , without the slightest interaction with neighbors.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 9 November 2021 12: 52
          +1
          Quote: vvvjak
          Zhukov G.K. there was no higher education, so what?

          And he missed the Japanese at Khalkhin Gol. Because, instead of a quick breakthrough of the mechanical units towards each other, bypassing the enemy's defenses and forming a loose ring around the Japanese forces, the northern group of the Red Army was stuck for three days in front of the "Finger" height, which was defended by the Japanese rearguard. Moreover, it was not the infantry that got bogged down in the battles, but the mechanical units, including the reserve - 9 MBBR. The southern group, having reached the line of the meeting, simply stood up. In general, while the northern group reached the southern one, the Japanese, covering themselves with rear guards, managed to withdraw the main forces from the emerging cauldron.
          Tov. Stalin
          I am sending the report just received to Comrade Zhukov and Kalugin. As expected, there were no divisions in the encirclement, the enemy either managed to withdraw the main forces, or rather, there were no large forces in this area for a long time, and a specially trained garrison was sitting, which is now completely destroyed.
          © Voroshilov
          1. vvvjak
            vvvjak 9 November 2021 14: 26
            0
            Quote: Alexey RA
            And he missed the Japanese at Khalkhin Gol

            And what if Zhukov had a higher military education, then this would not have happened?
            Quote: Alexey RA
            © Voroshilov

            Voroshilov has 3 classes in the parish school. So why link to it?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 9 November 2021 14: 33
              -1
              Quote: vvvjak
              And what if Zhukov had a higher military education, then this would not have happened?

              Yes. Because he would have been able to correctly prioritize and would not have exchanged himself for solving side tactical tasks, jeopardizing the entire course of the operation, but would have driven the TBR and MBB towards each other (and he would have added infantry on trucks), blocking the Japanese defense center infantry.
              Quote: vvvjak
              Voroshilov has 3 classes in the parish school. So why link to it?

              To understand what exactly Zhukov surrounded. Not large Japanese forces, as it was described in the propaganda, but only the rearguards of the retreating enemy.
      4. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 9 November 2021 12: 25
        0
        Quote: Finches
        At the beginning of 1941, more than 570 thousand officers served in the army and navy, and according to historians, 7% of them did not have a higher education! And this is not a small figure!

        He-he-he ... it is much more important here how many of them, when they entered military service, did not have a full-fledged, not only secondary, but primary education. wink
        It seems that we still do not realize how low the level of general education of the commanders of the Red Army was in the 30s - not only after the repressions, but even earlier. For example, in 1929, 81,6 percent (and 90,8 percent in infantry schools) of ground forces admitted to military schools had only elementary education or none at all! In January 1932, 79,1 percent of cadets of military schools had primary education, in January 1936, 68,5 percent (but in armored ones, 85 percent). These were the fruits of the pursuit of "the percentage of workers and peasants" ... But, "as you know," Commander SN Bogomyagkov noted in 1935, "tactically competent commanders are 99 percent people with good general development and broad outlook. There are few exceptions. " In particular, it is not surprising, therefore, the level demonstrated at the February 1937 exercises by the command personnel of the 24th and 96th divisions of the KVO. Indeed, on February 15, 1936, in the 24th division of secondary education, 68,6 percent of middle commanders, that is, lieutenants and senior lieutenants (they mainly commanded platoons and companies) did not have 96 percent, and in the 71th - 64,6 percent. Among senior commanders (including captains, who made up the bulk of battalion commanders), these were 59 percent and XNUMX percent, respectively.

        As for military education, 37 percent of the middle command personnel of the 24th KVO division and 39 percent of the 96th did not finish military school! The reason for this was the continuous growth in the number of the Red Army, the deployment of more and more new units and formations. It was necessary to hastily promote the junior command, that is, sergeant, staff to the middle commanders.
        © Smirnov. Great maneuvers.

        But the cadets of the early 30s are the average commanding staff of the late 30s. If there is no normal basic education received on time, then the rest of the levels of education, including the military one, will "get crooked."
        Quote: Finches
        There was no experience!

        There was no knowledge! Commanders often did not even read the Charter, as a result of which they invented the wildest crutches.
        Most of the command personnel of these battalions have completed all kinds of short-term courses. Many of the command personnel of the 12th motorized rifle regiment stated that they had never read the combat manual of the infantry, part of the 11th and the field manual of 36. The knowledge of the command personnel of the 3rd battalion of the 24th tank regiment does not go beyond the combat regulations of the tank forces, part of the 1st. They did not read any other statutes. They don't read military magazines. According to the order, the 24th Tank Regiment received 1 copy of the magazine "Military Thought" and 3 copies. "Armored magazine". In general, the level of training of command personnel, especially in tactics, is low.
        © Ulanov / Shein
        In the conclusion of the GABTU on the combat actions of Katukov near Mtsensk, it was even specially noted that
        ...the team took the path of firm implementation of the statutory requirements both in relation to the organization of intelligence, and in relation to the organization of defense itself. The defense was resilient by [creating] tank firing points both in front and in depth. Moreover, the firing points were nomadic, which did not decipher the defense. Shortly speaking, defense organization was carried out strictly according to the charter.
      5. Valerikk
        Valerikk 9 November 2021 14: 06
        +3
        Quote: Finches
        At the beginning of 1941, more than 570 thousand officers served in the army and navy, and according to historians, 7% of them did not have a higher education! And this is not a small figure!

        On this score, there is an interesting article by Gerasimov "The actual impact of the repressions of 1937-1938. On the officer corps of the Red Army."
        A short excerpt:
        "Repressions were not imposed, and they could not impose, because of their insignificance in comparison with the total mass of the officer corps, a visible imprint on the educational level. At the same time, in the pre-war years, there is a steady tendency towards an increase in the percentage of officers with an academic education. In 1938, this percentage was the highest for the entire interwar period period and equaled 1939%. Before the repressions, in 1941 this figure was 7,1 thousand persons of command personnel, in 1936 - after the actual end of the repressions - 6,6 thousand, in 1936 - 13 thousandofficers. Military education in the amount of a military school had, respectively, 1939, 23 and 1941 thousand servicemen. "
        1. ViacheslavS
          ViacheslavS 9 November 2021 16: 04
          +3
          “The repressions were not imposed, and could not be imposed because of their insignificance in comparison with the total mass of the officer corps, a visible imprint on the educational level.

          It is enough even to repress a couple of senior officers, on far-fetched cases such as Trotsky's conspiracy, counter-revolution, in order to deprive the initiative and instill fear in everyone else.
          1. Valerikk
            Valerikk 9 November 2021 18: 54
            0
            You did not understand. Speech in the above article is about something else.
      6. storm
        storm 19 January 2022 13: 49
        0
        At the beginning of 1941, more than 570 thousand officers served in the army and navy, and according to historians, 7% of them did not have a higher education!
        What is higher education? What are you writing about?
        In 1940, more than twenty percent of the commanders of the Red Army did not even finish the seven-year plan !!!
    3. Klio2
      Klio2 9 November 2021 07: 11
      +1
      Good morning. The topic is not interesting to me, but I liked your words: "instead of real deeds they are doing show-off". In my clinic I see: the senior therapist told us, on receipt, about the importance of vaccinations. And she reported to the management, and we are already vaccinated.
      The trouble is that the bosses always love to show off: they show their wise leadership
    4. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 14 November 2021 20: 52
      0
      What are you talking about? What did the leaders not do to you so that you survived the pandemic? You can blame unnecessary measures, misunderstanding what to do, mistakes (all this is all over the world, the disease is new and incomprehensible), but certainly not for show.
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 9 November 2021 06: 30
    +6
    Somehow the title doesn't match the text.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 9 November 2021 08: 34
      +2
      Lesh, this is so and not so: the title seems to be out of topic, but with the expectation: to attract more attention.
      At least that's what I understand
  3. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 9 November 2021 07: 29
    -2
    I would not argue that the rehabilitation was universal. Of course, the forest is being cut, chips are flying, and in those years especially. No one has forgiven or forgiven the outright traitors. As well as the generals of the tsarist army who fought against Soviet Russia. Even liberals in power are not were able to do it.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 9 November 2021 08: 35
      0
      generals of the tsarist army who fought against Soviet Russia.

      They were just amnestied on the anniversary of the liberation of Crimea in 1921. Only those who tried to continue the struggle against the Soviet regime and then collaborated with the Nazis were repressed.
  4. north 2
    north 2 9 November 2021 07: 32
    0
    Here is a riddle, or did Stalin repress a little or did he repress the wrong people a little? After all, the entire Khrushchev gang, which began the collapse of the USSR after Stalin's death, was not repressed under Stalin.
    So - did he repress the wrong people, or did he repress a little, so that those from among the wrong ones would fall into the millstones of repression?
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 9 November 2021 09: 26
      +3
      On this subject Martirosyan reflects. Probably, there was a conspiracy in itself, and the repression of the 30s? A muddy topic.
      1) Who carried out the repression? 'Genrikh Yagoda and Nikolai Yezhov, let's put it this way: filth of the highest grade. It’s ridiculous to even think that they were shooting only enemies.
      2) repression was beneficial for careerists. For example: the boss, once met with Trotsky, and the deputy knock, knock and took his place.
      Khrushchev also noted with them that Stalin told him: "calm down,".
      And Kaganovich worked in black. And Voroshilov. And the last ones remained: Stalin and Beria. They ran and fired in Stakhanov style, but were the "real Leninists" asleep?
      1. Region-25.rus
        Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 10: 07
        +2
        And the last ones remained: Stalin and Beria
        Moreover, Lavrenty Palych in the 37th worked in Georgia. And he headed the NKVD only in the 38th and .... reduced the number of especially zealous citizens vested with power. I transplanted a bunch of lawless people from the NKVD and then already rehabilitated many hi Also repression.
        And these howlers often contradict themselves. First, they yell that "the NKVD repressed the innocent!"
      2. ee2100
        ee2100 9 November 2021 10: 20
        +3
        Very few years have passed since the revolution of 17, in the ever-memorable 37, only 20!
        And those who made the revolution or participated in the civil war, they were in 37th only 45-55 years old. Everyone had their own opinion on the development of socialism, communism. And these ideas were expressed, and as a result, conspiracies with the aim of a coup. There were repressions against the conspirators and there were many denunciations (they say about 4 million) slandering neighbors, work colleagues, etc.
        "Every accident has a name, surname and title." Paraphrasing this statement of Kagonovich - for each repressed, it is necessary to establish who was behind all this.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 9 November 2021 12: 16
          +2
          "it is necessary to establish who was behind all this" I agree.
          It would also be great to take a closer look at the repressed: Yagoda, Yezhov - of course. There are no questions with them.
          Dybenko, Peters, Raskolnikov. Break me down if they were "ideological Bolsheviks" Dybenko is a deserter. Peters "comrade" is also dubious. Raskolnikov is actually a traitor. They were all rehabilitated and made goodies. And for the good, to spank them back in 1918-1920.
          Tukhachevsky and Blucher are also a lot of turbidity, and they are considered: "Plasma revolutionaries"
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 9 November 2021 13: 47
            +2
            Regarding Tukhachevsky and Co. ((Uborevich, Yakir, Kore, Feldman, Primakov, Putna, etc.) There are no questions - there was a conspiracy and I believe that they did it purely out of their own convictions. This justifies them.
            The fact that there were also innocent repressed and this is 1000%
            A friend of mine was rehabilitating his wife's uncle. When he received the case, it consisted of 7 sheets. Denunciation, interrogation and decision of the troika
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 9 November 2021 18: 10
              +1
              I agree with you: there were 4-5 "leftists" for one conspirator
        2. storm
          storm 19 January 2022 13: 59
          0
          There were repressions against the conspirators and there were many denunciations (they talk about 4 million) denigrating neighbors, work colleagues, etc.

          Who organized the coup d'état on the 17th? Jews are criminals, each had several trips to prison and hard labor.
          All that they could create and actually created was a semi-prison state of impoverished slaves who were deprived of their last and servants of the new government - informers ....
    2. Blacksmith 55
      Blacksmith 55 9 November 2021 10: 03
      +1
      Good morning .
      I am more interested in the repression of ordinary people.
      True, this does not fit into the title of the article.
      Traitors and those who do not know how to command were at all times, and in all armies.
      It would be nice to write an article about ordinary residents of the Union.
      Only the article must be truthful, based on documents and not on speculation.
      But I think an article is not enough here.
    3. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 9 November 2021 10: 10
      -1
      If you are talking about the Trotskyists, then they were shot correctly. I understand and approve of Comrade Stalin's actions. The Trotskyists, together with their leader, were enemies of the Party and the people. Therefore, an ice ax in the skull and a bullet in the back of the head or in the forehead - it was right and natural. But as for the rest, I'm sure that they had something wrong and criminal. In the past, 40-45 years ago, I did not approve of the actions of Comrade Stalin and the alleged "mass" repressions of 1934-38. I have studied this topic for many years. And now, years later, my opinion has changed - it was a punishment for those people who were obvious or hidden enemies. And if they were at the head of the Red Army at the beginning of the war, it is quite possible that the Germans would have occupied Moscow in August 1941 and the USSR would not have existed. The whole history of mankind could have gone completely differently. But, thank God, they were done with the Trotskyists and won the war! Glory to the Soviet people, the victorious people!
    4. deddem
      deddem 9 November 2021 10: 23
      +3
      So this is the problem.
      Personally, it seems to me that the perpetrators of the repressions followed the path of least resistance. Why a lot of people were killed according to the lists, and, for example, the Polish residency was actually liquidated only after receiving documentary Polish materials.
      And they left the same Khrushchev, who, judging by his deeds (the liquidation of artels, as remnants of the past, the ascension to the pedestal of architecture of the unfinished modernists-constructivists and other short-sighted economy "saved a penny, but lost a ruble"), remained a left deviator all the way.

      Actually, the main problem of Marxism is that it does not take into account the psychology of the naked ape, and especially its ability to act irrationally, sort of for personal benefit in the short term, and for general harm in the long run.
  5. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 9 November 2021 08: 20
    +5
    Political repression (from Lat. Repressio - suppression, oppression) is a form of political violence in the form of a conscious and deliberate deterioration by the state of the social and economic situation of people, carried out for unreasonable reasons or as a punishment based on the principle of collective responsibility. And where are they, according to the article? The articles of the Criminal Code were applied to the persons indicated in the article, for justified reasons.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 9 November 2021 12: 24
      +2
      "for justified reasons," and Golovatsky: retreated on the orders of the corps commander, but there is no written order and the execution
  6. Region-25.rus
    Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 08: 21
    +3
    eh-ehm! Dear author! Something I misunderstood here -
    four classes of education (at that time pretty good, at the level of our high school)
    This is in the sense that I studied 10 years at school (Soviet) then passed in 4 years? what Oh, well, only if you take a modern high school then it may well be request
    And so the correct article! And then some zadolbali with their calls for repentance and howling - "Stalin shot the flower of the officers"
    1. tatra
      tatra 9 November 2021 09: 13
      -5
      Repressions - political, criminal, administrative, were in the "Russia We Lost" praised by the enemies of the communists in October 1917, and in all countries of the world. Plus, in many countries of the world, including the Republic of Ingushetia and the Russian Federation, there have been and are church repressions.
      It was only the "great myth-makers" - the enemies of the communists who seized the USSR, who created the myth that repression is only political against exclusively innocent people, "the best, most hard-working, gene pool and color of the nation."
      1. Ulrich
        Ulrich 9 November 2021 09: 26
        -3
        Duc what to indulge in? Write a couple of three examples in which countries there was at least something similar in terms of the scale of repression as under Stalin? Except national Germany.
        1. Region-25.rus
          Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 09: 36
          +2
          something similar in terms of the scale of repression as under Stalin?
          The French Revolution will go? The guillotine plowed for days without a break. And how many more were simply cut, strangled, shot ...
          Chinese Cultural Revolution .....
          and this is so, offhand not really remembering .... In China, everything is so big! Really millions over decades
          1. Ulrich
            Ulrich 9 November 2021 09: 46
            -4
            Will go, just - in one country, the same communists in another, something similar (I'm talking about the Jacobins). But tatra didn't mean them, right? :)
            1. Region-25.rus
              Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 09: 52
              +2
              in one country the same communists
              there old Mao has done a lot of business, of course. Or do you think that now if you launch a policy based on youth, declaring (officially) teachers, scientists and in general those who are older than bad people and giving free rein to (youth) it will turn out wrong? Yes, just as if not worse. By the way, the famous Pol-Pot also called himself a communist. But he was not.
              and again about "Repression under Stalin". Solzhenitsyn must have been re-read or what bloggers did they listen to?
              Or were they imprisoned and shot exclusively innocent under Stalin, or for jokes? Well, such a power would not have lasted long? Or do you say they were intimidated by repression? Huh ... in the United States, yes ... they have been intimidated since the last century. What's wrong - "have you decided to go on strike? The working day is 8 hours? Raise salaries? Improve working conditions? - Get the National Guard with machine guns! And sometimes with aviation."
              ps
              and yet Comrade Mao lies in the mausoleum! And where is China now? On economics and so on?
              1. Ulrich
                Ulrich 9 November 2021 10: 12
                -2
                Of course, any opponent thinks only of Solzhenitsyn and bloggers. What else?
                And as I understand it, in the case of Mao - if there were no victims of moronic ideas (which only the story of the destruction of blackbirds is worth) then China would be a backward country? Correlation of development of the country = victims of the population? That is, the more victims, the more successful the country? :)

                And about the United States amused. This is exactly a country where everyone is intimidated. The events of a year ago with all this BLM garbage are direct confirmation of this.
                1. Region-25.rus
                  Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 10: 16
                  +3
                  The events of a year ago with all this BLM garbage are direct confirmation of this.
                  Well, we, too, do not really remember "the affairs of days gone by." And BLM ... well, it was needed, as it were. And when it became unnecessary, they quickly dispersed the whole booth. And the police, as you know, do not stand on ceremony there. The people are knocking down one or two. Tell the channel on youtube. Are there weekly issues about the use of weapons by the police, with recordings from heifer cameras? wink
                  And as I understand it, in the case of Mao - if there were no victims of moronic ideas
                  what are "kinks" in the course? We also had them.
                  Correlation of development of the country = victims of the population? That is, the more victims, the more successful the country? :)
                  I didn't mean it. but in the fact that despite the excesses, Mao is still remembered and respected. Why did it happen?
        2. tatra
          tatra 9 November 2021 09: 39
          -6
          Ha, well, yes, I know the manuals of the enemies of the communists - if in the Republic of Ingushetia and other countries there were less political repressions than in the USSR, then they "do not count."
          OUTSIDE your deceitful and hypocritical anti-Soviet, which is the only justification for your seizure of the USSR in 30 years, you, the enemies of the communists, are ALL the facts that you, with your hypocritical "righteous anger" and "philanthropy", expose for the crimes of those from whom you took the country in your Perestroika, in ALL other cases you justify or "do not notice", including political repressions in the Republic of Ingushetia, and in Finland, where in 1918, out of a 3 million population, the enemies of the Bolsheviks threw 75-80 thousand of their fellow citizens into concentration camps, and shot there are about 10 thousand of them. And in terms of 50 times the population of the USSR in your beloved 1937, this is 4 million and 500 thousand people.
          1. Ulrich
            Ulrich 9 November 2021 09: 54
            -2
            Again, a lot of blah-blah and attributing something to the opponent that he did not say. The question was simple.

            Directly presented how you are making your next speech, "You are the enemies of the communists ..." laughing
            1. tatra
              tatra 9 November 2021 10: 00
              -4
              With stupid, senseless criticism, please do not bother me.
              1. Ulrich
                Ulrich 9 November 2021 10: 04
                -2
                : D: D: D well, yes, it can't be compared with your bot-answers :)
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 10 November 2021 16: 36
              +2
              Red schizoids always have enemies to blame for everything, but only they themselves, since they always did everything right and honestly, and in general, white and fluffy eyes can not tear off mistakes, they do not have perfection itself.
  7. Illanatol
    Illanatol 9 November 2021 09: 00
    0
    There were repressions, and there were innocent convicts, even the most ardent supporter of Stalin cannot but admit that the arrests of people like Rokossovsky or Gorbatov are stupidity on the verge of betrayal.


    Or the result of the quite successful work of "Western partners". Weakening the state with the hands of its own special services, using incriminating evidence, on the eve of the war, is quite an effective tactic.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 9 November 2021 18: 52
      0
      Weakening the state with the hands of its own special services, using incriminating evidence, on the eve of the war, is quite an effective tactic.

      Walter Schellenberg, in his memoirs "Labyrinth", published in the USSR in 1990, directly wrote about how he, having learned about the Tukhachevsky conspiracy, through Masaryk (the President of Czechoslovakia) planted these materials in the USSR, adding more names there.
  8. Oleg N.
    Oleg N. 9 November 2021 09: 25
    +3
    So the author declares that these people are not traitors, it just happened. Yeah of course. All of these "heroes" are not conscripts from a remote village who joined the army 2 weeks before the war, but career commanders (officers, as they say today) who know exactly where they are and what they are, remembering the charter and the oath. And if you remember this, then it turns out that they are just ordinary traitors and alarmists. And the first character reminds me of many officers of the end of the USSR. They came to the Army for benefits and early retirement, and that sometimes it is necessary to die in this profession does not fit in my head. Now, too, there are enough of them - there will be no war.
    So don't talk about Stalin, Kulik, Beria, Lenin, Trotsky and others. All that was was the choice of these people. Do what you must and let it be what will be. Something like this.
  9. Doctor
    Doctor 9 November 2021 09: 30
    -1
    Privates were shot for panic in wartime: we, the Germans, the Americans and the British.

    Yes, the Americans shot Edward Donald Slovik for desertion.

    ONE FOR THE ENTIRE WAR. love
    1. Region-25.rus
      Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 09: 44
      0
      Yes, the Americans shot Edward Donald Slovik for desertion.
      Americans are still storytellers if that. And by the way, we had something different at stake than the Americans you adore. And the conditions of the war were also different. From this and the measures taken
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 9 November 2021 10: 06
        0
        Americans are still storytellers if that. And by the way, we had something different at stake than the Americans you adore. And the conditions of the war were also different. From this and the measures taken

        Do you know that storytellers can see anyone executed from the day of foundation?

        And about the conditions of the war - imagine how many heads would fly if Pearl Harbor happened here. wink

        There is no adoration of the Americans, it's just stupid to shoot your own people.
        Especially considering the scale.

        160 thousand is 2 armies, just in case. Half of which could be put back into operation, and the rest - on the construction site of the five-year plan. negative
        1. Region-25.rus
          Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 10: 13
          +1
          happened Pearl Harbor with us.
          June 22, 1941 is something worse than a dozen Pearl Harbors. Both in scale and in consequences. Something that the Americans profited from the attack, despite the fact that they read the secret correspondence (they copied the encryption machine from the Japanese before the war) does not bother anyone. But that the attack of the Nazis turned out to be "sudden" (not entirely of course. The war was expected) is very exciting. That Britain lost Singapore by surrendering it without a fight, having a numerical superiority, too, that at once lost almost all colonies, apparently does not bother. That McArthur stupidly surrendered the Philippines by abandoning his soldiers and having gone to Australia, apparently too? That France (considered the most efficient in 1939) was blown away in a month, too? Oh yes. in the same place, no one was shot, which means it wasn’t a matter of fact.
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 9 November 2021 10: 18
            0
            Oh yes. in the same place, no one was shot, so it wasn’t a matter of fact.

            Of course not counting, the article is about repression, not about jambs. Nobody denies them.

            And given that
            June 22, 1941 is something worse

            or rather, the entire western direction failed, the repression had to start with the head of the General Staff.
            Do you agree? laughing
            1. Region-25.rus
              Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 10: 22
              +2
              repression had to start with the chief of the General Staff.
              Are we so smart now after 80 years? Straight - "eh! I would have shown me there how to fight!" Yes?
              the article is about repression, not about jambs
              and "jambs" is that? The day man dozed off on a jar? Or did you like the bayonet? Figa se a joint - surrender the whole archipelago leaving thousands of soldiers good This is, as it were, a whole military crime.
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 9 November 2021 10: 31
                -3
                Are we so smart now after 80 years? Straight - "eh! I would have shown me there how to fight!" Yes?

                So am I about that!
                Zhukov could easily have been mixed, like Pavlov!
                However, it was lucky. And some consider him the best commander of the Second World War.
                Also with ordinary soldiers. smile

                and "jambs" is that? The day man dozed off on a jar? Or did you like the bayonet? Figa se a jamb - to surrender the whole archipelago leaving thousands of soldiers good This is, as it were, a whole military crime.

                Right. What are we talking about.
                We would have cut out half of the command staff. And the Japanese would have applauded.

                The difference in mentality, however. wink
                1. Region-25.rus
                  Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 11: 17
                  +3
                  We would have cut out half of the command staff.
                  of course exclusively the best and the innocent! So, for fun's sake.
                  The difference in mentality, however
                  logic however
                  1. Doctor
                    Doctor 9 November 2021 12: 03
                    -3
                    of course exclusively the best and the innocent! So, for fun's sake.

                    Judge, yes. Penalty battalion - yes. On the Kolyma nakraynyak, so that it is worse than at the front.

                    Killing your own people is hopeless stupidity. To the delight of the enemies.

                    In January 1995, a detachment of Aksai special forces surrendered in Chechnya.
                    Not village lads caught by the military registration and enlistment office - special forces.
                    Not unconscious - fully conscious.
                    Deliberately handed over by commanders with experience and awards of the Afghan war.

                    According to the logic of Stalin's times (and yours, as I understand it), they would have been shot.

                    Now think about how the militants would react to this execution. wink
                    1. Region-25.rus
                      Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 12: 28
                      +3
                      Kill your
                      "svoy" is this as I understand it as traitors and cowards? Vlasov, Krasnov and others are also your own for you?
                      Deliberately handed over by commanders with experience and awards of the Afghan war.

                      where? Was passed? commanders with Afghan awards and experience?

                      full text - http://www.checheninfo.ru/309007-chechnja-kak-jeto-bylo-plenenie-aksajskogo-specnaza-v-1995-godu-i-afganskoe-bratstvo.html
                      According to the logic of Stalin's times (and yours, as I understand it), they would have been shot.
                      whom are they? Top management, what made a mistake in planning the operation? Major Morozov? Scouts? Or ALL?
                      I have something with the logic of order. And I distinguish a war of annihilation (of the Slavic ethnos and others on the territory of the USSR) from "bringing the rebellious republic to constitutional order" (as part of Russia, by the way).
                      Or, according to your "logic" in the USSR, all who returned from captivity should have been shot alive or in the camps? There was such a thing, but after a thorough investigation. I also think it was about here, but (!!!) considering what a mess it was then (not because of the war, but the collapse of the USSR), I believe that the perpetrators escaped punishment. as was the then Minister of Defense Pasha Mercedes. At that time I was already quite old (in 93 I turned 20) and I remember all this very well. And I learned even more afterwards. But for this (loss of a valuable unit) during the Second World War, they could easily go to the wall. If malicious intent and outright betrayal have been proven. No one is immune from mistakes.
                      AND YES! If you really bring something as an argument, then take the trouble to accurately quote! Although .. anti-Soviet people love to misinterpret and understate.
                      1. Doctor
                        Doctor 9 November 2021 12: 39
                        -4
                        their "this is how I understand traitors and cowards? Vlasov, Krasnov and others are also your own for you?"

                        Traitors (Vlasov, Krasnov) are not their own.
                        But cowards are different.
                      2. Doctor
                        Doctor 9 November 2021 12: 45
                        -2
                        where? Was passed? commanders with Afghan awards and experience?

                        In Chechnya. Yes. Morozov has the Order of the Red Star for Afghanistan, Ivanov (the commander of the consolidated detachment) - 3.
                      3. Doctor
                        Doctor 9 November 2021 12: 48
                        -2
                        whom are they? Top management, what made a mistake in planning the operation? Major Morozov? Scouts? Or ALL?

                        You know this better. Would you, in the place of the head of SMERSH, do what you did with the reconnaissance detachment that surrendered and those who were preparing? wink
                      4. Region-25.rus
                        Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 12: 54
                        +2
                        Would you, in the place of the head of SMERSH, do what you did with the reconnaissance detachment that surrendered and those who were preparing?
                        familiar with such a term as "the circumstances of the capture"? To start. Or immediately "the execution cannot be pardoned"?
                        Neither clarification of the circumstances of the capture, nor the investigation of who said what in captivity. no impact assessment? simply or to shoot or to justify? Oh, for me this youthful maximalism. And in general, you want to discuss (which is, in principle, useless) So I can take a day off at work. If you want me to continue wasting my time uselessly chewing on generally elementary (for adults) things, then I have an hourly pay at work. Hour - 687,5 rubles. Ready?
                      5. Doctor
                        Doctor 9 November 2021 14: 04
                        -2
                        familiar with such a term as "the circumstances of the capture"? To start. Or immediately "the execution cannot be pardoned"?
                        Neither clarification of the circumstances of the capture, nor the investigation of who said what in captivity. no impact assessment? simply or to shoot or to justify?

                        Vooot, as required to prove.

                        Think differently from what you used to think.
                        But for this (loss of a valuable unit) during the Second World War, they could easily go to the wall.


                        Oh, this youthful maximalism for me.

                        You turned my position 180 degrees. Or am I yours? laughing

                        Let me remind you that I am against the executions.
                      6. Doctor
                        Doctor 9 November 2021 12: 51
                        -3
                        Or, according to your "logic" in the USSR, all those who returned from captivity should have been shot or taken to the camps?

                        In my opinion, no.
                        And according to yours, you need to shoot even those who did not surrender, but simply fled from the front line out of fear. winked
                      7. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 9 November 2021 18: 39
                        0
                        it is necessary to shoot even those who did not surrender, but simply fled from the front line out of fear.

                        Of course you do. And let others fight for the fugitive, no matter what he swore.
                      8. Doctor
                        Doctor 9 November 2021 21: 44
                        0
                        Of course you do. And let others fight for the fugitive, no matter what he swore.

                        You will leave the militants completely without work. laughing
                    2. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 9 November 2021 18: 44
                      0
                      In January 1995, a detachment of Aksai special forces surrendered in Chechnya.

                      One thing is not clear - what military value did this "special forces" represent later, after being released from captivity? Most likely, it was disbanded.
                      1. Doctor
                        Doctor 9 November 2021 21: 42
                        0
                        One thing is not clear - what military value did this "special forces" represent later, after being released from captivity? Most likely, it was disbanded.

                        Yes, of course not!))
                        Shoot and recruit new ones!))
                        We have special forces in every village. laughing
                      2. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 9 November 2021 21: 44
                        0
                        Do you seriously think that their experience will be studied at the Academy of the General Staff?
                      3. Doctor
                        Doctor 9 November 2021 22: 15
                        -1
                        Do you seriously think that their experience will be studied at the Academy of the General Staff?

                        Of course. As you know, they learn from mistakes. wink
            2. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 9 November 2021 18: 48
              0
              it was necessary to start with the chief of the General Staff.

              The fact that the division ended up in the Brest Fortress, and not in summer camps, is, of course, the fault of the Chief of the General Staff, it was he who had to withdraw it from there.
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 9 November 2021 21: 38
                -1
                The fact that the division ended up in the Brest Fortress, and not in summer camps, is, of course, the fault of the Chief of the General Staff, it was he who had to withdraw it from there.

                Your logic is cool.
                Pasha Grachev was mixed with shit just for the New Year's raid, so never wash it off.

                And then the initial blow fell, the total failure of five fronts, some prisoners more than 3 million, almost lost Moscow and the country, and you remembered some kind of division.

                As the best commander of the Second World War said there, is not suitable for staff work?
                And all business. laughing
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 9 November 2021 21: 41
                  0
                  During the assault on the Brest Fortress, the Germans lost less than 500 people killed, wounded, probably 3 times more. And in the fortress 7000 of ours died. This is Pavlov's fault, not NGSH.
                  And Pasha-Mercedes is an ordinary EBNovsky lackey, he will never wash himself in 1993.
                  1. Doctor
                    Doctor 9 November 2021 22: 30
                    -2
                    During the assault on the Brest Fortress, the Germans lost less than 500 people killed, wounded, probably 3 times more. And in the fortress 7000 of ours died. This is Pavlov's fault, not NGSH.

                    This Brest was given to you. Kuznetsov surrendered Kaunas and Riga and lived until 1961, Cherevichenkr - Odessa and lived until 1976, the NGSH surrendered the entire west and accepted surrender.
                    In 1941, everyone passed everything, and in 1945 the winners. Pavlov just turned up on the arm.

                    Tell the NGSH about 7000. He lost so much in the Rzhev-Vyazemsk operation in 3 days. And to no avail.
    2. tatra
      tatra 9 November 2021 10: 04
      -1
      Do you think that during a war for desertion from the battlefield, one should not shoot? If you wanted to run home, so let them run? Well, the defenders of the Russian Federation.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 9 November 2021 10: 12
        -4
        Do you think that during a war for desertion from the battlefield, one should not shoot? If you wanted to run home, so let them run? Well, the defenders of the Russian Federation.

        Shoot for fear? This is silly.

        Take to the rear, process and return to duty. If not, go to a labor camp.

        By killing your own, you work into the hands of the enemy. wink
        1. Region-25.rus
          Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 10: 34
          +4
          Shoot for fear? This is silly.
          shot instigators and alarmists! By their actions, they provoked the abandonment of the entrusted defense sector by personnel. Is that clearer?
          Take to the rear, process and return to duty.
          comfort, pat on the head, feed, drink, put to sleep! While others are heroically holding back the enemy? good Nice man! What world do you live in? Not in the "world of pink ponies and unicorns" by chance?
          By killing your own, you work into the hands of the enemy.
          those. to bang one troublemaker per hundred personnel of a company who, by their actions (captivating everyone with panic), exposed the flanks of neighboring units and thereby dooming two more companies of neighbors to death, and the enemy introduces breakthrough forces into this gap and ... the front is broken. environment and destruction. I'm simplistic, of course, but that's about how it happened and it probably happens in other places where they are fighting.
          Those. In your opinion, having shot through the heads of such "fighters" and saving hundreds of lives worked into the hands of the enemy?
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 9 November 2021 10: 53
            -4
            shot instigators and alarmists! By their actions, they provoked the abandonment of the entrusted defense sector by personnel. Is that clearer?

            The British merged at Dunkirk. And many more where.
            40 death sentences for the entire Second World War.
            And we have 217.

            000 040 - Great Britain
            217 080 - USSR

            So clearer? wink
            1. Region-25.rus
              Region-25.rus 9 November 2021 11: 13
              +2
              The British merged at Dunkirk. And many more where.
              but not on their own territory. Is that clearer? Or if the Germans turned their "See Leve" and landed, then there would be no deserters and alarmists? would be. And if they had not been shot in public, they would have merged on their islands. Is that clearer?
              000 040 - Great Britain
              217 080 - USSR
              Are the scale of hostilities also comparable? Territories and stuff?
              And apparently what I wrote above did not reach. Well, one can immediately see the couch "expert". And in general I am not writing for you. Here, everything is clear from the very beginning. Do you know what panic is? How does it work? Where does it start? So I will tell you one of the cases (of my life).
              In the 90s - 13s, the automotive business flourished in the Far East (probably in the course). So they were carried for the most part by such a category of people as "passengers". Those. businessmen - loners or representatives of any organized criminal group and not very close structures with maritime documents. Those. went in a carriage as its members (de jure), but de facto paid the ship owner for a place on the steamer for himself and the purchased cars. But the point is different! They are not career sailors! And what is even worse, the shipowner obliged the crews to indulge these "passengers" in every possible way. For they brought him money. And among them, as he said, many were outright bandits with all the consequences. And on a sunny April day, somewhere in the day from the port of Niigata (Japan), we began to sink astern. The steamer was only "on the paint and kept" Rotten the same section of the bottom under the engine room. We sounded the alarm, decided on a place, and began to put on a plaster. The regular crew was 20 people (including the cook), "passengers" 190. So they started a panic. Real. They started running with bulging eyes, foaming at the mouth, yelling and threatening us. And we are damn it working, we are scared ourselves (it’s somehow not a hunt to drown), we brought in a plaster, we squeeze it. And these ..... as already mentioned in every possible way interfered with their actions. Distracted and unnerved. Then the senior assistant - an uncle XNUMX in height, lean, fists the size of a chess player, just first went to a couple of the most zealous alarmists in the face. Only the sneakers flew! The beauty! And the rest were so overlaid that all their "rasping and concepts" abruptly faded away. I'm sure if the situation were more critical, he would have taken a crowbar and smashed someone's boss!
              And yes, despite all the threats of reprisals (and they could), then there was nothing to the senior officer. For ... because of a couple of alarmists, everyone could die. But nothing happened. They stopped the flow of water, pumped out the incoming water, welded it and continued the flight.
              So what am I talking about? about the fact that the war is getting worse. And what was shot less is their problem. But they lost just more at the hands of the Nazis. Or how many prisoners and deaths there were after the counter attack in the Ardennes are not in the know?
              ps
              as already said - I am not writing to you personally. In your case, logic walks by itself somewhere! hi
            2. Illanatol
              Illanatol 15 November 2021 08: 54
              0
              The British merged at Dunkirk. And many more where.
              40 death sentences for the entire Second World War.
              And we have 217.


              So maybe they "merged a lot where" because they were too almond-shaped with alarmists and deserters?
              What is the Second World War for the British?
              Laughing my sneakers, thanks.
          2. Doctor
            Doctor 9 November 2021 11: 01
            -4
            comfort, pat on the head, feed, drink, put to sleep! While others are heroically holding back the enemy? good Nice man! What world do you live in? Not in the "world of pink ponies and unicorns" by chance?

            Exaggerate.
            Here is the look of a warrior who fought in the Second World War.

            - Yes, there are a lot of alarmists, - he agreed. - What do you want from people? They are scared in battle, but without a fight - twice! Where does it start? He is walking in his rear on the road - and a tank at him! He rushed to another - and another to him! He lay down on the ground - and along it from the sky! So much for the alarmists! But one must look at it soberly: nine out of ten are not alarmists for life. Give them a break, put them in order, then put them in normal combat conditions, and they will work out theirs.

            K. Simonov, "The Living and the Dead".
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 9 November 2021 12: 45
              +2
              In general, the right words. And a talented writer, he was loved by those who passed the war. The 20th congress decided: Stalin byaka and Simononov agreed, but Malenkov, Voroshilov, Kaganovich also agreed with the decision of the congress.
              After all, everything is so simple: there were mistakes of some people, but the wise party corrected everything.
              So I have no special complaints about Simonov
            2. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 9 November 2021 18: 29
              0
              Here is the look of a warrior who fought in the Second World War.

              Konstantin Simonov was a war correspondent; it would be a stretch to call him a fighter. He was an honest writer, but the notorious XX Congress of the CPSU hit him hard on the head, he became a Khrushchev. Even Mekhlis is a devil with him. But Simonov is the author of the aphorism - "Yes there was a cult. But there was also a Personality!" This is it according to the results of the so-called. "thaw" said.
    3. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 9 November 2021 10: 13
      0
      I do not believe! Can not be!
  10. Petrik66
    Petrik66 9 November 2021 10: 30
    +4
    Any war produces a screening out of peacetime generals. To report cheerfully, to have a gallant appearance, a correct biography, as well as the ability to assent to the authorities in time - these are the criteria for selection in peacetime. When the kneading begins and everything goes wrong, these characters gradually move to other positions not related to the real war and remain with the tribe (someone must serve after the end of the war). The chiefs shrug their shoulders and thinking - How did it happen, and in fact General P and Admiral O seemed so promising, and how did they let me down ?! He gave them everything and apartments and titles, and orders ....... Then, the sooner, the better, the big man begins to nominate those who were not so sympathetic to him in peacetime. Why did the army in 41 and 42 fought badly, but the industry showed itself from the best side? Yes, because industrialization has been carried out since the year 29 and there quickly went up not the old Bolsheviks and careerists from the Mauser, but the nominees, that is, people who proved their competence by deeds: Malyshev, Ustinov, Kosygin, etc. They were also young, but they had already received a lot of experience. And in the army, the level of many promoted candidates left much to be desired. Yes, and Spain, Halkin Gol and the Finnish company were not drawn to industrialization in any way.
  11. tank64rus
    tank64rus 9 November 2021 10: 35
    +3
    There was a massive fear of taking responsibility for oneself, which was very fraught in a combat situation ... There was treason, cowardice, stupidity, but there was more confusion, which, coupled with a lack of knowledge and experience, led to depressing results in the first months of the war! I agree, but now the covid pandemic is giving the same result. And yet there were conspiracies and there was betrayal at the beginning of 41. It has now been admitted that the directive on bringing the troops to full combat readiness was sent not on the evening of the 22nd, but on 18 June. In the evening of the 21st, the commander of the Western District Pavlov with his headquarters in the theater watches "The Wedding in Malinovka."
  12. iouris
    iouris 9 November 2021 11: 27
    0
    The organizational structure of a division cannot be classified as a military secret. Everything can be classified, but then another problem arises: unclassified and secret information receive the same status, i.e. really secret information by information carriers can be regarded as having no special value for the enemy.
  13. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 9 November 2021 12: 08
    0
    In panic, he did not fulfill the elementary things for the divisional commander, which led to the defeat, conviction and execution on December 27, 1941, with further rehabilitation during the time of Khrushchev.

    With such a rate of flight, which was demonstrated by the 199th rifle division, this is a natural result. The German blow, of course, was strong, but retreat 300 km in 6 days ... belay
    Not all of the NKVD's claims appear to be justified. It is difficult to blame AN ​​Alekseev for the explosion of the bridge. The division was preparing a line for the withdrawal of the troops of the 37th Rifle Corps, and the explosion of the bridge would deprive part of the corps of the opportunity to cross the river to take up defense. Undoubtedly, the appearance on July 5 instead of German motorcyclists, motorized infantry and tanks threw the command of the 199th Rifle Division into a state of shock. Instead of a few days' respite, the hammer of the battle group of the best armored division of Army Group South fell on the people exhausted by the marches. The blow was so strong and brutal that the division simply fled. The front command lost A. N. Alekseev's division for several days. It appeared only in the front operational summary for July 15:

    "Parts 199 with * trelkovy ** d * vizii ** were found in Olshany (40 km southeast * vnom ** Belaya Tserkov)".

    For 6 days, the connection covered a distance of 300 km, 50 (!!!) km per day. This is a pace exceeding the standards for a forced march of an infantry division. The unpleasant word "flight" is asked on the tongue. Some divisions of the Red Army in 1941 fought bravely, some behaved mediocre, and some did not fight at all. The 199th Infantry Division was one of the latter.
    © Isaev
  14. vladcub
    vladcub 9 November 2021 12: 32
    +2
    Potaturchev is from the breed: "what do you want"?
    Do you have to be Bolsheviks for a career? I agree
    We must praise Hitler. What's the question? I can easily.
    Admit mistakes? For God's sake. I belonged to the ideological and the party, and now I consider myself a Bolshevik
  15. Seal
    Seal 9 November 2021 12: 37
    0
    Quote: Finches
    but Pavlov was shot absolutely for the cause!

    Memoirs of Boldin, as of 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX - First Deputy Pavlov
    In my office, one phone after another rings. In a short time, he calls the People's Commissar of Defense for the fourth time. I am reporting new data. After listening to me, S.K. Timoshenko says:
    - Comrade Boldin, mind you, do not take any action against the Germans without our knowledge. I inform you and ask Pavlov to tell Pavlov that Comrade Stalin does not permit the opening of artillery fire on the Germans.
    - How so? - I shout into the phone. - After all, our troops are forced to retreat. Cities are burning, people are dying!
    I'm very excited. It is difficult for me to find words that could convey the whole tragedy that was played out on our land. But there is an order not to succumb to the provocations of German generals.
    - To conduct reconnaissance by aircraft no further than sixty kilometers, - says the People's Commissar.
    I report that the fascists at the airfields of the first line have put out of action almost all of our aviation. Apparently, the enemy seeks to seize the Lida area to ensure the landing of an airborne assault in the rear of the main grouping of the Western Front, and then with concentric strikes towards Grodno and in the northeastern direction to Volkovysk to cut our main communications.
    I insist on the immediate use of mechanized, rifle units and artillery, especially anti-aircraft.
    But the People's Commissar repeated the previous order: no other measures should be taken, except for reconnaissance deep into the enemy's territory for sixty kilometers.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 9 November 2021 18: 22
      +1
      Memoirs are, of course, the height of objectivity. Moreover, Boldin wrote this under Khrushche Kukuruzny.
      1. Seal
        Seal 11 November 2021 18: 37
        0
        This yes. But on the other hand, then all the Stalinist marshals were still alive. And no one stuffed Boldin's face (figuratively).
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 11 November 2021 18: 46
          0
          Boldin wrote everything in the light of the decisions of the Khrushchev congresses, and the marshals were party members. They also lacked to be in an anti-party group. Somehow on VO there was material that Khrushchev corn was very active in cleaning up sincere grassroots Stalinists after the XXII Congress - much more ferociously than classical dissidents. In my gut, I sensed that an ordinary dissident for "socialism with a human face" was just an ordinary chatterbox, and that behind the dissident, a Stalinist, there was an idea betrayed by a corn-grower.
  16. Seal
    Seal 9 November 2021 12: 42
    0
    Quote: Region-25.rus
    Those. businessmen - loners or representatives of any organized criminal group and not very close structures with maritime documents. Those. went in the carriage as its members (de jure), but de facto paid the ship owner for a place on the steamer for himself and the purchased cars.
    Did they fit into the crew list? And where did the port control (port flag control) look, which, according to its functions, was supposed to check both the presence and the authenticity of the working diplomas of the crew members?
  17. Nafanya from the sofa
    Nafanya from the sofa 9 November 2021 14: 38
    +2
    Quote: Serg65
    for a warm place near Comrade Stalin

    You are reading this and apart from "Kolya from Urengoy" nothing else comes to mind.
    A lot of memoirs of "Stalinist People's Commissars" have now been published. How they worked 12-15 hours a day. How they were personally responsible for the assigned task and clearly knew what would happen to them if they did not complete this task. And no one even had the thought of deceiving Stalin, or even stealing anything, building a dacha for himself or making his mistress a secretary or director of the bargaining.
    And "warm places" are more for Boris Nikolaevich and Vladimir Vladimirovich.
  18. xomaNN
    xomaNN 9 November 2021 15: 49
    -1
    Here is the trouble of our authorities - to jump sharply in different directions. wassat Then in '37 all around the enemies and denunciations of colleagues to scribble. And what a shame on those who are smarter and more efficient in military affairs. And having taken their places not by right and not by skill, they fled so shamefully. And in the days of the Great Corn Grower, everyone was forgiven.
    -------
    But those generals whose generalized image - General Serpilin from "The Living and the Dead" by K. Simonov, I respect and remember!
  19. Eug
    Eug 9 November 2021 17: 48
    0
    The active growth in the number of spacecraft before the war led to not always high-quality selection of "promoted" to command positions. An interesting moment - the commander of the 4th army Korobkov was shot along with Pavlov, and the NSh of the same army Sandalov was promoted - he became the NSh of the Bryansk Front .. how can this be explained?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 10 November 2021 16: 43
      0
      To look for scapegoats in the first days of the war because the beginning of the war was missed is sheer idiocy.
  20. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 9 November 2021 18: 19
    0
    Good article. Only this, perhaps, was written in vain.
    four classes of education (at that time pretty good, at the level of our high school)

    Even the current high school is well above the 4th grade of the early 20th century. Just look at the list of disciplines.
  21. Dart2027
    Dart2027 9 November 2021 19: 17
    +1
    Just the rapid career of Rychagov, who pulled along the same young and early ones, sincerely believing that they knew the best way, led to what it led to: a third of the MIGs of the Red Army was lost, the division commander fell into a panic and was shot.

    Even Clausewitz in his treatise "On War" noted that the psychological load on the one who fights himself and the one who commands others is very different and a brave soldier does not necessarily become a brave officer, let alone a general.
  22. Oleg Kievlyanin
    Oleg Kievlyanin 9 November 2021 19: 41
    0
    Repression, rightly wrong. We do not know and do not understand that world and that situation
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 10 November 2021 16: 48
      0
      Those repressions were reminiscent of the search for a black cat that was not originally there - in a black room at night without light, and this is confirmed by the fact that the Bolsheviks were schizophrenics obsessed with the presence of constant enemies next to them that need to be removed.
  23. Ol willy
    Ol willy 10 November 2021 19: 18
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Specifically, Rychagov was accused of losing trust. He was appointed to his post personally by the IVS, who trusted him - and citizen Rychagov deigned to lie to the party and the government, hiding the facts of disasters in the Air Force entrusted to him. And hiding it stupidly, childishly - promising to send reports and not sending, and not realizing that the information still goes upstairs through at least two channels (party organizations and the department "where necessary"). And when the fact of concealment was revealed, then instead of a normal analysis of the causes of the accident, he made a hysterical "The accident rate will be great, because you make us fly on coffins."

    Did it help to deal with the accident rate?

    And by the way, what sins were listed for Rychagov's wife?
  24. Ol willy
    Ol willy 10 November 2021 19: 20
    +1
    Quote: ivan2022
    If they were to blame for what they were accused of, they had to shoot. If not guilty, their execution is a crime against the Law, the state and the authorities.

    Rychagov and his wife were shot without trial, if anything
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 10 December 2021 11: 49
      0
      If anything, Rychagov and his wife were shot during the war. You manage not to understand anything. If you do not like the laws of wartime - just write. The point is that violations of laws are called crimes. But what do you specifically mean by this word? Criminal laws?

      Well then you need to apply to the UN. That would have deprived Russia of the status of the legal successor of the USSR. Because you cannot be the legal successor of a criminal regime. At one time the Germans went through this. Only they lost the War. Well, we just do it for nothing ... We are generally great specialists in this area to test everything. Do's and don'ts
      1. Ol willy
        Ol willy 16 December 2021 09: 46
        0
        In wartime, there are military tribunals, not an argument because no tribunals have been gathered about Rychagov
  25. Ol willy
    Ol willy 10 November 2021 19: 33
    0
    Quote: vladcub
    And the last ones remained: Stalin and Beria.

    Who exactly appointed Yagoda and Yezhov to the post of People's Commissar?
  26. Ol willy
    Ol willy 10 November 2021 19: 54
    0
    Quote: Arzt
    shot instigators and alarmists! By their actions, they provoked the abandonment of the entrusted defense sector by personnel. Is that clearer?

    The British merged at Dunkirk. And many more where.
    40 death sentences for the entire Second World War.
    And we have 217.

    000 040 - Great Britain
    217 080 - USSR

    So clearer? wink

    Detailed statistics are more interesting. Out of 217k of the VMN during the war years, desertion is no more than 30-50k. Convicted of desertion - about 376k with one and a half million deserters caught, according to the NKVD.

    At the same time, those convicted during the war years - 3.6 million; of them - 1.2 million criminal and 480k counter-revolution.

    There are three hundred thousand fewer convicts for ordinary crimes than the caught deserters ...
  27. Seal
    Seal 11 November 2021 19: 26
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    - three former commanders of the Red Army Air Force (Loktionov, Smushkevich, Rychagov);

    27 December 1940, the new People's Commissar of Defense, Marshal Tymoshenko, who replaced Marshal Voroshilov, issued Order No. 0367, which read:

    “By the order of NKO 1939, No. 0145, obligatory masking of all newly constructed operational airfields was required. The Main Directorate of the Red Army Air Force was to carry out these measures not only on operational, but also on the entire airfield network of the Air Force. However, none of the districts paid proper attention to this order and did not fulfill it.

    It is necessary to realize that without a thorough camouflage of all airfields, the creation of false airfields and the masking of all material parts in modern warfare, combat operations of aviation are inconceivable.

    I order:

    <...>
    3. All aerodromes ... must be sown taking into account camouflage and in relation to the surrounding terrain by selecting appropriate grasses. At airfields, simulate fields, meadows, vegetable gardens, pits, ditches, ditches, roads in order to completely merge the background of the airfield with the background of the surrounding terrain. <…> By July 1, 1941, complete the camouflage of all airfields located in a 500-km strip from the border.
    <...>
    9. The Air Force Inspector General shall establish control and report on the progress of work on a monthly basis.

    People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR Marshal of the Soviet Union S. Tymoshenko ”.

    Alas, almost nothing was done.

    Since in order No. 0042 of June 19, 1941, the People's Commissar Timoshenko and the Chief of the General Staff Zhukov stated:

    “So far, no major has been done to disguise airfields and major military facilities.
    The airfield fields are not planted, the take-off strips for the color of the terrain are not painted, and the airfield buildings, standing out sharply in bright colors, attract the observer’s attention by tens of kilometers.
    The crowded and linear arrangement of aircraft on airfields in the complete absence of their concealment and poor organization of airfield service with the use of unmasking signs finally unmask the airfield ... "
    “Artillery and mechanized mechanized units display a similar carelessness for masking: the crowded and linear arrangement of their parks is not only excellent objects of observation, but also targets that are beneficial for defeating from the air.
    Tanks, armored vehicles, commander and other special vehicles of motorized and other troops are painted with paints that give a bright reflection, and are well observed not only from the air, but also from the ground.

    Nothing has been done to disguise warehouses and other important military installations. ”

    Of course, Tymoshenko and Zhukov cannot be relieved of responsibility for the failure to comply with these orders. After all, Tymoshenko ordered to report to him personally on a monthly basis. And apparently I forgot. But there are also specific culprits. The Air Force Inspector General was Smushkevich. It was he who was entrusted with monitoring the execution of order No. 0367 of December 27, 1940.
    And Rychagov, who until April 12, 1941 was the commander of the Red Army Air Force. He, too, is absolutely not to blame for the fact that Order Order No. 0367 of December 27, 1940 was not executed ???? I am aware that he was not arrested for not following this order. But nonetheless ?
  28. Ingvar K
    Ingvar K 26 December 2021 17: 12
    0
    The very system of appointing officers to posts is flawed, starting in 1917, when not capable, but ideological comrades were appointed. Now they are the same, but according to the principle of kinship or nepotism. During the war, all this is washed off by the blood of the soldiers, and after the war, it is instantly restored. In civilian life, the same thing. Maybe the problem is in the general culture and morality. In the West or Asia, the system works differently.
    .
  29. Bashibuzuk1
    Bashibuzuk1 27 December 2021 20: 20
    0
    I read the comments, well, if briefly about what I read: remember the definition of the Russian intelligentsia according to V. Lenin-Ulyanov. you all know it.
    You have to understand a simple thing - to whom much is given, so much is asked. The army is not the State Duma, the commander is responsible for EVERYTHING.
    The Air Force - and its commanders - the superiority of the Lufftwaffe in 1941-192 was indisputable. Who should be responsible for this?
    The reconnaissance worked, the data was there. Whom to answer? Read the memoirs of S. Yakovlev "the purpose of life", if memory serves. A trip to Germany for aircraft factories. Then it was already clear that the USSR Air Force lagged behind in action and strategy. There was no time for lisping.
    Finnish war .... How many miscalculations have been revealed? Did you manage to fix it by 1941? No. Who should be responsible for the loss of people, technology, abandoned cities? Soldiers? Sergeants? Junior officers? No.
    Repressions - a lot of far-fetched, a lot of chernukha, starting with the "maize", Shalamov, and there are many of them - "offended and omitted" allegedly for "political reasons."
    Mertskov, Govorov, Rokossovsky ..... And who knows exactly what they were arrested for?
    I recommend reading "The History of Intelligence" (the author is an Englishman, forgot his last name (you can find it on the Internet, whoever is interested) It says how the "OSI" intelligence agencies played a big game of disinformation and discrediting the top commanding staff of the Red Army. Which, incidentally, was quite successful. Only the war put everything is in place, But time is GONE.
    And finally - YOU - I.V. Stalin: all information flows to you in all directions, and to all leaders and commanders. MAKE A DECISION, accurate and correct. Success to you.