American analysts believe that India will receive an analogue of the Russian hypersonic Zircon no earlier than 2025

India will receive the first hypersonic missile, developed on the basis of the Russian-Indian "BrahMos", no earlier than 2025, according to the EurAsian Times, citing a report from the analytical service of the American Congress.

India is one of the countries leading the development of its own hypersonic weapons... According to the conclusion of American analysts, the development of weapons of this type in India is being carried out jointly with Russia and on the basis of the already adopted BrahMos supersonic missile. The result should be a kind of analogue of the Russian "Zircon".

India has not joined the race for hypersonic weapons from scratch. According to the publication, the country has already developed a hypersonic technology demonstration apparatus (HSTDV) and a Mach 6 jet engine, which were tested in 2020. In addition, India has 12 wind tunnels and can test hypersonic weapons at speeds up to Mach 13. Also, Indian designers have experience in developing a BraMos supersonic rocket capable of reaching a speed of Mach 3.

At present, India, with the help of Russian specialists, is developing a BrahMos II hypersonic missile, which will be able to reach Mach 8 speed and will have a range of up to 1 kilometers. It is noted that the development of the rocket has been going on for a long time, it was originally planned that it would fly in 2017, but later the dates were shifted to the right for technical reasons.

According to analysts from the US Congress Research Service, the Indian army will receive an analogue of the Russian hypersonic Zircon no earlier than 2025.

Comments

[nPuBaTuP]

Well, it seems to me that you shouldn't be in a hurry here with the gypsies ... that they are lying on the mattresses with joy ... No matter how technologies go into the auditorium ...

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: nPuBaTuP

it's not worth hurrying with the gypsies

Yes, it seems that our "partner" designers are in no hurry! Of course, they will make "hypersound" for the Indians ... but after "Zircon"! When "zircons" with a speed of 12-14 Machs and a range of 3.000 km appear in Russia, then there will be "Brahmos" in India with a speed of 8 Machs and a range of up to a thousand kilometers! ...

[Barberry25]

rather, because they do not have the necessary competencies .. after researching the work on the Dagger, we began to do various projects on hypersound like pies .. the Hindus are now licking Bramoses ..

[military_cat]

According to the newspaper, the country has already developed a hypersonic technology demonstration device (HSTDV)

This is an amazing thing. This is not just a hypersound, but a scramjet engine. And it was not just developed, but passed real flight tests - it separated from the launch accelerator, turned on and worked for 20s, gaining a speed of 2 km / s, according to the official report (the Russian GLL "Kholod", for example, did not separate from the solid-propellant carrier).

[venik]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Quote: nPuBaTuP

it's not worth hurrying with the gypsies

Yes, it seems that our "partner" designers are in no hurry! Of course, they will make "hypersound" for the Indians ... but after "Zircon"! When "zircons" with a speed of 12-14 Machs and a range of 3.000 km appear in Russia, then there will be "Brahmos" in India with a speed of 8 Machs and a range of up to a thousand kilometers! ...

=========

Why can't we assume that our specialists are working on some other (different from Zircon and Dagger) technologies and design solutions on BrahMos-2 ??

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: venik

Why can't I suggest ...?

Duc, I didn't say everything ...! And in general ... We are not ...

[3danimal]

I propose not to waste time on trifles and set a goal to build anti-ship missiles launched from the shoulder at a speed of 100M
Came out on the deck of the yacht, took aim and drowned AB

[credo]

As you can see, "... analysts from the research service of the American Congress ..." I know better than anyone who, where and how things are going with hypersound. But they could probably tell a lot about the successes of their country.
All the same, India is clearly not in the top ten among the developers of military products, so its successes in this matter definitely pale before the successes of the United States.

[zwlad]

But they could probably tell a lot about the successes of their country.

Yes, like that week they told. They say it doesn't fly.

[Vladimir_2U]

Whatever the Indians give up on "fashionable and youthful", but not in life! So we are waiting, right behind our tank and the fifth generation of the fighter.

[dzvero]

the Indian army will receive an analogue of the Russian hypersonic Zircon no earlier than 2025.

If they go as usual, then it will be more realistic if you swap the last two digits ...

[Orange bigg]

Who do they have, our engineers?

Currently, India, with the help of Russian specialists, is developing a BraMos II hypersonic missile, which can reach Mach 8 speed and will have a range of up to 1 kilometers.

I told you that BraMos II is essentially a simplified version of Zircon. The performance characteristics are similar. In fact, Zircon is poured into the Americans through the Indians. What kind of business?

Find design differences.

[dzvero]

Who do they have, our engineers?

The Indians. How many years have Arjun been developed? And your own helicopter and fighter?
Plus, one more thing - "with the participation of Russian specialists ... a range of 1000 km." I do not think that Russian specialists will participate directly - the agreements on the nonproliferation of missile technologies are still in force. So the Indians will have to do it themselves, using the tips as much as possible. And given the fact that their requirements can change on the fly ...

[Orange bigg]

Are you trying to fool yourself? This is Zircon (BraMos II).

Despite the fact that the projects to create the Russian hypersonic missile Kh-90 "Koala", at least, have been suspended until 2014. As part of the BrahMos Aerospace joint venture with the Indians, such work continues at full speed. And at the Aero India 6 aviation exhibition that opened on February 2013, 2013 in Indian Bangalore, a model of the advanced BrahMos II hypersonic cruise missile is presented. As in the case of the BrahMos rocket, the actual developer of the BrahMos II rocket is the Russian Military-Industrial Corporation Scientific and Production Association of Mechanical Engineering, and the Indians provide generous funding. from the first countries in the world.

Despite the fact that this is not the first time the model of this rocket has been demonstrated, very little is known about it. For example, according to the speed, it is known that the new rocket will have to be from 5 to 7 strides. At least, these are the requirements stated in the development assignment.

It is also known that "BrahMos-2" will be created in variants of ground, air, surface and underwater basing.

http://alternathistory.com/krylataya-giperzvukovaya-raketa-brahmos-ii-sovmestno-indiya-i-rossiya/

[dzvero]

Wait and see. For the Indians, a ten-year shift to the right is actually about nothing ... To get it in the normal time frame is possible only if the Russian side takes control of everything and everyone in its own hands. That in their realities looks like fantasy ...

[Orange bigg]

You compare the two pictures from my previous post and you will not see any differences there in terms of the rocket design.

Quote: OrangeBigg

Who do they have, our engineers?

Currently, India, with the help of Russian specialists, is developing a BraMos II hypersonic missile, which can reach Mach 8 speed and will have a range of up to 1 kilometers.

I told you that BraMos II is essentially a simplified version of Zircon. The performance characteristics are similar. In fact, Zircon is poured into the Americans through the Indians. What kind of business?

Find design differences.

[military_cat]

Quote: OrangeBigg

You compare the two pictures from my previous post and you will not see any differences there in terms of the design of the rocket.

The problem is that none of the uninitiated knows the exact shape of the Zircon rocket. Pictures on this topic are "presumed appearance" - the way the author of a particular picture imagines him. From the launch frames, you can, for example, judge that it has a nasal air intake, closed by a lid that is detachable during the launch process. On VO there was an interesting article on this topic - https://topwar.ru/177899-oniks-vmesto-cirkona.html

[DmSol]

Are you seriously comparing an Indian layout with a schematic picture drawn by a "girl" designer?

[Orange bigg]

Quote: DmSol

Are you seriously comparing an Indian layout with a schematic picture drawn by a "girl" designer?

Do you need detailed drawings of Zircon to confirm my, in my opinion, quite logical position, or what? Sorry, I don't have that access.

[DmSol]

That is why I say that it is rather strange to refer to a schematic image as proof of your innocence. The fact that the basis of the new anti-ship missile system was based on the developments on previously implemented projects, in my opinion, is obvious and so. But the appearance in this case is one of the fundamental elements of the design and therefore you will not find pictures of real zircon on the network - this is a state secret.

[Orange bigg]

Onyx was also a state secret, but pictures, photos of BraMos could well be found.

[venik]

Quote: OrangeBigg

What the heck?

Find design differences.

========
Are you SURE that the top collage depicts namely "Zircon"? And this then, what kind of "beast" ??:

[Orange bigg]

This is the French anti-ship missile Exocet-mm40-block-3c-anti-ship-missiles.

[venik]

Quote: OrangeBigg

This is the French anti-ship missile Exocet-mm40-block-3c-anti-ship-missiles.

=========
That's how it is ..... I asked for a reason, but because one of the last articles on VO was accompanied by this particular photo, which I confess caused me no small surprise, because precise appearance "Zircon" is still NOT KNOWN to us (images walking on the Internet are mainly the fantasies of the authors) .....

[Alex777]

Quote: OrangeBigg

I told you that BraMos II is essentially a simplified version of Zircon. The performance characteristics are similar. In fact, Zircon is poured into the Americans through the Indians. What kind of business?

Do you remember how we were all surprised that the Russian submarine, which does not exist, continues to participate in the tender together with the French, Koreans and Spaniards?
I believe that India's acquisition of hypersound may be related, among other things, to our participation in this project. Why not?
And by 2025, the United States will either make hypersound or steal it.

[Orange bigg]

They themselves are unlikely to do it, but why are we helping them in this through India? Zircon was made with money from India, it turns out. They also generously paid for the creation of BraMos II, hence our participation in a joint project for money.

[Alex777]

Let's just say: there will be our NNS - there will be BraMos II on it.
Everybody dance...

[Orange bigg]

Quote: Alex777

Let's just say: there will be our NNS - there will be BraMos II on it.
Everybody dance...

Indian dances begin?
Do you mean project 777A Kalina with VNEU?

[Alex777]

National features.
In the States, they don't know how ...

[3danimal]

BraMos II is essentially a simplified version of Zircon. TTX is similar.

I repeat: a rocket with such characteristics will not fit into the UKSK. Can you imagine her All right, it would have been about the P-700 launcher on the Kursk's relatives ..

[Basarev]

India must be pressed down until it really masters hypersound. Eh, set it off against China in a devastating war. I would be glad if in the end both countries roll back to the seventeenth century.

[Orange bigg]

What? Have you read the article? Our engineers are creating an analogue of Zircon for India.

At present, India, with the help of Russian specialists, is developing a BraMos II hypersonic missile, which will be able to reach Mach 8 speed and will have a range of up to 1 kilometers. It is noted that the development of the rocket has been going on for a long time, it was originally planned that it would fly in 2017, but later the dates were shifted to the right for technical reasons.

[Basarev]

This is not a good idea. I believe that savages cannot be trusted with high technology and wealth. This is exactly the same as if the Arabs and Hezbollah personally took possession of hypersound.

[voyaka uh]

On the contrary, both countries are very rational.
India and Pakistan already had border wars after both countries had nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles.
And none of the countries made even a slight verbal threat towards the enemy: "Well, we will give you a nuclear loaf."
They do not want either to heaven or to a new reincarnation ahead of schedule.
They do not want to destroy the enemy's cities.

Rather, the United States and Russia will destroy each other (and the rest at the same time) "on principle."
In an extremely important showdown, "who will go to heaven, and who will just die."

[Orange bigg]

On the contrary, both countries are very rational.
India and Pakistan already had border wars after both countries had nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles.

Especially India is very rational if it shares BraMos II with Israel, otherwise I have no doubt that it will be so, because the British climbed the Nerpa, which we leased to India for many years, and as a result, the broken Nerpa was returned to us, previously, everything shoveled there and studied. It seems that we do not care about our national security and we are ready to hang ourselves for a penny. Draining Zircon is tough, although we actually created it with Indian money.

[voyaka uh]

Here is a model / prototype of Brahmos-2.
Note the square air intake required to retard the incoming air in a dense atmosphere.
Hardly, Zircon looks like him.
Zircon is thrown to a height of 20-30 km, where such an air intake is not needed for flight.

[Orange bigg]

Hardly, not unlikely, this is just your guess. Let me remind you that BraMos was not much different from Onyx. I think that there will be no differences between Zircon and BraMos II. As in the case of the BrahMos rocket, the actual developer of the BrahMos II rocket is the Russian Military Industrial Corporation Scientific and Production Association of Mechanical Engineering, and the Indians provide generous funding. I think everything is clear here.

[voyaka uh]

Brahmos-2 was clearly intended for horizontal flight in a dense atmosphere after being dropped from an aircraft from an altitude of 10-12 km.
Zircon, as has been shown several times, goes off sharply to great heights. Its trajectory is therefore different from that of Brahmos II.
And, therefore, the form is also different.

[Orange bigg]

And what are the contradictions? If one is an air-launched missile and the other is sea-based? A sea-based missile needs to gain altitude first, but an air-based missile does not need to climb. Here is a quote from my post, which says that Zircon has modifications depending on the location of the base ...

Quote: OrangeBigg

Are you trying to fool yourself? This is Zircon (BraMos II).

Despite the fact that the projects to create the Russian hypersonic missile Kh-90 "Koala", at least, have been suspended until 2014. As part of the BrahMos Aerospace joint venture with the Indians, such work continues at full speed. And at the Aero India 6 aviation exhibition that opened on February 2013, 2013 in Indian Bangalore, a model of the advanced BrahMos II hypersonic cruise missile is presented. As in the case of the BrahMos rocket, the actual developer of the BrahMos II rocket is the Russian Military-Industrial Corporation Scientific and Production Association of Mechanical Engineering, and the Indians provide generous funding. from the first countries in the world.

Despite the fact that this is not the first time the model of this rocket has been demonstrated, very little is known about it. For example, according to the speed, it is known that the new rocket will have to be from 5 to 7 strides. At least, these are the requirements stated in the development assignment.

It is also known that "BrahMos-2" will be created in variants of ground, air, surface and underwater basing.

http://alternathistory.com/krylataya-giperzvukovaya-raketa-brahmos-ii-sovmestno-indiya-i-rossiya/

[voyaka uh]

"A sea-based missile needs to gain altitude first, but an air-based missile does not need to gain altitude" ///
----
But not 30 km after all
The hyper-direct-flow engine is a very capricious thing.
Slightly denser air, slightly discharged - the engine breaks down.
Therefore, we switched to gliders without an engine.

[Orange bigg]

.But not 30 km after all smile
The hyper-direct-flow engine is a very capricious thing.
Slightly denser air, slightly discharged - the engine breaks down.

Someone is capricious, someone is not capricious. If the technology is not crude and well-developed, then there should be no disruptions and whims. Compare the American whimsical Kh-51A and our refined and adopted Kh-32, although the principles of operation of these missiles are the same. The Kh-32 also does not fly. on a ballistic trajectory, it is also a cruise missile like the Kh-51A.

.

GLA X-51 A has a length of 7,62 m. Its power plant is a hydrocarbon scramjet engine. The vehicle will be launched from a Boeing B-52H carrier aircraft at an altitude of 15200 m at a speed corresponding to the number at M = 0,8. After the reset, the solid propellant booster turns on. Having reached a speed corresponding to the number M = 1 - 8300 at an altitude of 4,6 m, the apparatus turns over on its "back". At this moment, the booster unit is fired back and the scramjet engine is turned on. In the future, the GLA gains an altitude of about 4,8 m and makes a flight over a distance of about 30000 km.

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/xplane/x51.html

Various sources mention that the Kh-32 will be able to reach speeds of up to 5000-5400 km / h and climb to heights of the order of 40 km. The flight range will reach 1000 km.

To improve the efficiency of application, it is possible to apply new methods of guidance and the corresponding flight path. After uncoupling from a carrier aircraft at altitudes from 1 to 13 km, the rocket will have to turn on the engine and reach an altitude of 40 km. Horizontal flight at maximum altitude must continue until the target reaches the area, after which the rocket will have to complete guidance to the specified object, going into a dive.

https://topwar.ru/99721-zavershayutsya-ispytaniya-krylatoy-rakety-h-32.html

[voyaka uh]

Kh-32 (Kh-32) - good supersonic cruise missile.

If she reached hypersound, then Zircon or Brahmos-2 would not have started

[Orange bigg]

Well, almost hypersonic, I would say near-hypersonic, just like the X-51A, but heavy, that's why new developments started. And here and there, plus or minus 5 Mach speed.

The Kh-32 cruise missile was developed by the Raduga Design Bureau to replace the Kh-22. She was accepted into service in 2016. The range of the Kh-32 is up to 1000 kilometers, the maximum speed is about Mach five.

https://life.ru/p/1366719

It must be said that the Russian designers helped the Americans a lot, who then called us "friends." All cold test results from the flying laboratory were sold to Boeing. And the last test, in 1998, was carried out with American money. That is, Boeing got access to all the invaluable materials.

Then he immediately began to create a hypersonic missile X-51A Waverider with a scramjet engine. According to calculations, its speed should reach 6-7 M. Tests of the first prototype launched from the suspension of the B-52 strategic bomber began in 2010. The third test, which took place in 2013, was deemed successful. The rocket developed a speed of 5,1 M, flying 6 kilometers in 425 minutes. Then there was a long pause.

Tests resumed in March 2021. However, the previous record speed was not achieved. In addition, it is not clear how things are with the missile's controllability, with the overload capacity, that is, with the dynamics of maneuvering, with the accuracy of aiming at the target.

So it is unclear when, as a result of tests and modifications, the US Air Force will receive the long-awaited and workable hypersonic missile.

https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/299396/

[voyaka uh]

"However, the previous record speed was not achieved. Moreover, it is not clear how things are with the missile controllability, with the overload capacity, that is, with the dynamics of maneuvering, with the accuracy of aiming at the target" ///
----
What I wrote above: the scramjet is a capricious thing. It requires stable level flight.
And when approaching the target, you still have to slow down - otherwise a miss. And all efforts at speed are down the drain.
And if he slowed down, the missile defense system began to flop.
The rocket is overheated - it is noticeable well.
Is it clear why the Americans are developing stealth low-speed missiles? With a low radio and infrared profile.
Or sneaks up and we hit it for sure
or we fly swiftly in a plume of gases and flames and ... maybe we get there.
What to choose?

[Orange bigg]

Why do you think that since the Americans do not succeed in something, then others will not succeed? We did succeed in Zircon, but the Americans did not have the X-51A.

[voyaka uh]

But Zircon does not fly horizontally in a dense atmosphere like the X-51A. Zircon flies at 30 km altitude in rarefied layers.
And from there you will have to descend steeply. To hit a moving target, you need to fly up to it horizontally and aim.
Why were there such difficulties up and down, if you can fly horizontally?
And to fly low horizontally - all the problems of the Americans will have to be tested on yourself ...

[Orange bigg]

Believe it or not, the X-51A also flies at 30 km altitude in rarefied layers.
I gave you a link. Quote of my post.

Quote: OrangeBigg

.But not 30 km after all smile
The hyper-direct-flow engine is a very capricious thing.
Slightly denser air, slightly discharged - the engine breaks down.

Someone is capricious, someone is not capricious. If the technology is not crude and well-developed, then there should be no disruptions and whims. Compare the American whimsical Kh-51A and our refined and adopted Kh-32, although the principles of operation of these missiles are the same. The Kh-32 also does not fly. on a ballistic trajectory, it is also a cruise missile like the Kh-51A.

.

GLA X-51 A has a length of 7,62 m. Its power plant is a hydrocarbon scramjet engine. The vehicle will be launched from a Boeing B-52H carrier aircraft at an altitude of 15200 m at a speed corresponding to the number at M = 0,8. After the reset, the solid propellant booster turns on. Having reached a speed corresponding to the number M = 1 - 8300 at an altitude of 4,6 m, the apparatus turns over on its "back". At this moment, the booster unit is fired back and the scramjet engine is turned on. In the future, the GLA gains an altitude of about 4,8 m and makes a flight over a distance of about 30000 km.

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/xplane/x51.html

Various sources mention that the Kh-32 will be able to reach speeds of up to 5000-5400 km / h and climb to heights of the order of 40 km. The flight range will reach 1000 km.

To improve the efficiency of application, it is possible to apply new methods of guidance and the corresponding flight path. After uncoupling from a carrier aircraft at altitudes from 1 to 13 km, the rocket will have to turn on the engine and reach an altitude of 40 km. Horizontal flight at maximum altitude must continue until the target reaches the area, after which the rocket will have to complete guidance to the specified object, going into a dive.

https://topwar.ru/99721-zavershayutsya-ispytaniya-krylatoy-rakety-h-32.html

[voyaka uh]

Clear. Thanks for the information.

[3danimal]

Big Point: USA held a large test program for the X-51.
Where does Russia have a similar program? You can't just bam! and make a unique aircraft with extreme performance.
See the dimensions of the X-51: it clearly will not fit into the UKSK cell (despite the fact that it is air-launched, without a seeker and warhead). Physics, chemistry and materials science cannot be fooled, at the current level of technology it will not be possible to make a "mini-X-51" with a range of a full-size, and even 200-400kg warheads, 50kg homing systems and a powerful booster. This means that you will have to significantly sacrifice characteristics.
Considering how the Iskander air launch turned into a hypersonic missile (which many missiles with solid propellants are in this formulation), a realistic version with Zircon is a two-stage solid-propellant rocket that develops its 6M by the middle of the flight (at an altitude of 30 km) along a ballistic trajectory and decelerates to 3M at the last third or quarter of the distance (to be able to lock the target with your seeker).
And again, without target designation, a long-range launch is impossible, as well as against a target that is close (a dead zone of 30 kilometers for this design, IMHO).
Again, IMHO, instead of spending quite modest resources on an inevitably small wunderwaffe (if this whole story was not initially disinformation), it was better to focus on the production of one relatively inexpensive and working sample - the 3M-54 Caliber anti-ship missile system.

[rotmistr60]

the Indian army will receive an analogue of the Russian hypersonic Zircon no earlier than 2025.

I'm more interested in what year Americans will ride hypersound.

[Orange bigg]

It was written no earlier than 2025, when the Indians will actually share with them our Zircon in the face of BraMos II.

[voyaka uh]

They will make a mixture of Dagger with Vanguard (tactical BR + glider) quickly.
Both components are ready.
(Why do they need this joy? - kill me, I don’t understand.)

But with a full-fledged hyper-CD, it takes a long time.

[Tektor]

Hindus do not shine to get Zircon. The most that they can get is Brahmos with a maximum speed of up to 5M.

[Prisoner]

Better to calculate when the Americans get something like that.

[riwas]

Also, Indian designers have experience in developing a BraMos supersonic rocket capable of reaching a speed of Mach 3.

BraMos is a Russian "Onyx", which was developed without the participation of India.