Good and bad torture

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Torture is commonly associated with historical events that took place in the distant past, and images of torture and punishment resemble practices that arose in the Middle Ages.

Despite their decline by the XNUMXth century, they revived and spread again in many states, and they still take place in the twenty-first century, and, most typically, in the most democratic countries, which the United Kingdom, the United States and Israel call themselves.



By the way, the progressive and tolerant Western society brings new theories under the current torture and even finds them almost moral justification.

Guantanamo


Guantánamo signaled the return of judicially sanctioned torture to the public sphere.

Torture - these are not hooligan bullying by a few bad guys, they are an integral part of the US state military strategy.

Torture and what is legally referred to as “cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment” were sanctioned by the George W. Bush regime's legal experts and governed by bureaucratic documents used throughout the global US prison archipelago.

Torture program.

Drawings made by captive prisoners at Guantanamo Bay who were subjected to "intense interrogation" vividly and disturbingly depict his account of what happened to him.

These are sketches of a Guantanamo Bay prisoner known as Abu Zubaydah, his memory of torture during four years in secret CIA prisons.

These recently released drawings depict specific CIA techniques that were approved, described and categorized in notes prepared in 2002 by the Bush administration, and reflect the perspective of the person tortured there, Mr. Zubayd, a Palestinian whose real name is Zayn al-Abidine. Muhammad Hussein.

One of these sketches depicts a prisoner naked, tied to a rough gurney, his entire body compressed as an unseen investigator floods him with water.

Another drawing shows that his wrists are chained to a bars so high above his head that he is forced to stand on tiptoe, "with a long wound sewn up in his left leg and howls coming out of his open mouth." The other depicts a jailer beating his head against a wall.

This prisoner is not an artist, he made crude and very personal images that embody the essence and emotions that until now have only rarely been portrayed in popular culture as permissible measures of influence on the arrested person.

Water sports.

Good and bad torture

Stress postures.


Short shackles.


Hitting the wall.


Large prison box.


In this drawing, Zubaida is shaved, naked, shackled in such a way that he cannot stand up, and, according to him, is sitting on a bucket that serves as a toilet bowl.

“I found myself in total darkness,” he said. "The only place I could sit was on the top of the bucket because it was so cramped."

Small confinement cell.


In his testimony, Zubaida describes his time in what he called a "doghouse" as "very painful." He adds: “As soon as I was locked in the box, I tried my best to sit down, but in vain because the box was too short. I tried to strike a pose, but to no avail, it was too tight. "

He was immobilized and shackled in the fetal position, as he described it, for "countless hours" undergoing muscle contractions.

"Very intense pain," he said, "made me scream unconsciously."

Lack of sleep.


Zubaydah said the agents used "horizontal sleep deprivation", which involved shackling him to the ground in such a painful position that he could not sleep.

The CIA justified sleep deprivation on the grounds that it "focuses the detainee's attention on his current situation rather than ideological goals."

History


Antiquity.


The Assyrians skin their captives alive.

Judicial torture was probably first used in Persia by either the Medes or the Achaemenid Empire.
POWs were torn out their tongues, ripped off their skin or burned alive. This served an indirect purpose - to convince the next city to surrender without a fight.

Over time, torture began to be used as a means of correction, causing public horror and sadistic pleasures for the torturers and some spectators, deprived of other entertainment.

The ancient Greeks and Romans used torture for interrogation. Until the XNUMXnd century AD, torture was used only on slaves (with a few exceptions).

After that, they began to be extended to all members of the lower classes (the testimony of a slave was only permissible if it was obtained under torture).

Middle Ages.

Medieval and early modern European courts used torture depending on the crime of the accused and his or her social status.


Torture was considered a legal means of obtaining confessions or the names of accomplices, or other information about the crime, although many confessions were largely invalid due to the victim being forced to confess to severe agony and pressure.

Wheeling.

Torture, also known as Catherine's wheel, was used to slowly kill a victim. First, the victim's limbs were tied to the spokes of a large wooden wheel, which then slowly rotated. At the same time, the executioner simultaneously smashed the victim's limbs with an iron hammer, trying to break them in many places.


After the bones were broken, the victim was left on a wheel, which was raised to a high pillar, so that birds could feed on the flesh of a still living person.

It is known that in the Middle Ages almost every castle had its own set of instruments for torture. This was allowed by law only if there were already half-proofs or at least denunciations against the accused. Torture was used in continental Europe to obtain corroborating evidence in the form of a confession when other evidence already existed.

Often, defendants who had already been sentenced to death were tortured to force them to reveal the names of their accomplices.
Torture The Medieval Inquisition began in 1252 with the papal bull Ad Extirpanda and ended in 1816 when another papal bull banned their use.

Torture did not restore justice; it strengthened the power of the sovereign.

He restored sovereignty, forcing everyone to realize through the tortured body of a criminal his unlimited power. The suffering body of the condemned became the fulcrum for the ritual manifestation of power, revealing both the truth of the crime and the power of the sovereign.

The excess of violence showed the disproportionate power of the triumphant sovereign over those whom he had brought to powerlessness. The trials were held in secret. The accused had no right to know either the charge or the evidence against him. Knowledge was the absolute privilege of the prosecution.

Only the punishment became public.


The torturous executions were usually public, and the engravings depicting the hanged, drawn and quartered English prisoners showed a large number of spectators, as in the paintings of the Spanish auto-da-fe, in which heretics were burned at the stake.

Torture was also used during this period as a remedy, so it was presented in the form of a spectacle to instill fear in the public.

A typical example can be found in LA Perry's History of Torture in England:

And what is most striking when considering medieval torture is not so much their diabolical barbarism, which really cannot be exaggerated, but the extraordinary variety and what could be called the artistic skill that they displayed.
They represent a state of thought in which people have long and carefully considered all forms of suffering, compared and combined different types of torture, until they became the most consummate masters of their art, did not use up all the resources of the highest ingenuity on this topic and pursued it with the fervor of passion.

Early modern period.

During the Renaissance, Protestants continued to torture teachers whom they considered to be heretics.

Suspected witches were also tortured and burned, although more often they were expelled from the city, as well as suspected of spreading the plague, which was considered a more serious crime.

In the XNUMXth century, the number of cases of judicial torture declined in many European regions as a whole, thanks to the speeches and books of the then enlightened public opinion spokesmen.

Johann Graefe in 1624 he published the book The Reformation of the Tribunal, a case against torture.

Cesare Beccaria, an Italian jurist, published an Outline of Crimes and Punishments in 1764, in which he argued that torture unjustly punishes innocent people and should not be used to prove guilt.

Вольтер (1694–1778) also vehemently condemned torture in some of his essays.

In England, the jury granted considerable leeway in assessing evidence and conviction based on circumstantial evidence, which made torture unnecessary to extract confessions. For this reason, there has never been an orderly system of judicial torture in England. and their use was limited to political affairs.

While in Egypt in 1798, Napoleon Bonaparte wrote to Major General Berthier regarding the reality of torture as an interrogation tool:

“The barbaric custom of beating people suspected of having important secrets must be abolished. It has always been admitted that this method of interrogating men, subjecting them to torture, is worthless. Poor rascals say something that comes to their minds, and what they think the investigator wants to know ...
Consequently, the commander-in-chief prohibits the use of methods that are contrary to reason and humanity.

Since 1948.

Contemporary perceptions have been shaped by deep reactions to war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by the Axis and Allied Powers in World War II, leading to strong international opposition to most, if not all, aspects of the practice.

While many states practice torture, few want to be described as torturing, neither by their own citizens nor by the international community.

A variety of caveats fill this gap, including denying that the act is torturous in nature, appealing to various laws (national or international), using jurisdictional arguments, and claiming “overriding necessity”.

Throughout history and today, many states have used torture, albeit unofficially. Torture ranges from physical, psychological to political interrogation methods.

Although the ban on torture spread from Europe to most of the world over several decades, by the 1980s the torture taboo had been broken and torture “returned with a vengeance,” thanks in part to television.

The ability to free political prisoners and broadcast the resulting public denial of their political convictions is highly indicative. As a rule, physical or psychological torture is behind this. It is clear that torture will not change their political views.

Whom are we kidding?

Right.

States that have ratified the United Nations Convention against Torture have a treaty obligation to incorporate provisions into domestic law. Therefore, the laws of many US states officially prohibit torture. However, such legal provisions de jure are by no means proof that the de facto signatory country does not use torture.

Methods and devices of torture


Medieval instruments of torture were varied; these sadistic artifacts are carefully preserved in museums in many European cities, including in Russia: in Moscow and St. Petersburg.


Prague Museum of Torture


Torture Museum in Toledo.

One old English chronicle from the early Middle Ages states:

“They hung them by the thumbs or by the head and hung fires on their feet; they put ropes tied on their heads and twisted them so that the brain was deformed. "

Psychological torture use non-physical methods that cause psychological distress. Its effects are not immediately apparent unless they change the behavior of the tortured person. Because there is no international political consensus on what constitutes psychological torture, it is often overlooked, denied, and labeled with different names.

Psychological torture is less well known than physical torture and is generally subtle and much easier to hide.

In practice, the distinction between physical and psychological torture is often blurred. Physical torture is the infliction of severe pain or suffering on a person.

On the contrary, psychological torture is directed at the psyche with deliberate disturbances of psychological needs, along with deep damage to psychological structures and the destruction of beliefs that underlie normal sanity. Tormentors often use both forms of torture in combination to exacerbate the associated effects.

Psychological torture also includes the deliberate use of extreme stressors and situations such as mock executions, violation of deep-rooted social or sexual norms and taboos, prolonged solitary confinement, and threats of violence against immediate family members.

Since psychological torture does not require physical abuse to be effective, it can cause severe psychological pain, suffering, and trauma with no visible external effects.

Rape and other forms of sexual violence often used as methods of torture for interrogation or punishment.

During medical torture practitioners use torture to judge what victims can endure by applying treatments that exacerbate the torture, or to act as torturers themselves.

Joseph Mengele and Shiro Ishii were notorious during and after World War II for their involvement in medical torture and murder. However, in recent years there has been a drive to end medical complicity in torture through both international and national legal strategies, as well as lawsuits against individual doctors.

Pharmacological torture Is the use of drugs to cause psychological or physical pain or discomfort.

Tickling torture Is an unusual form of torture that has nevertheless been documented and can be both physically and psychologically painful.

Tickling was especially popular in China during the Han Dynasty (206–220 AD). It was used as a special method of punishment for criminals, leaving no traces and not leading to serious health consequences. Apparently, the matter did not come to death.
In Japan, according to historians, "merciless tickling" was also practiced against offenders.
A similar method was used in ancient Rome. The victim's feet were soaked in a special saline solution, and then the goat was allowed to lick.
At first, the victim laughed, but soon the procedure became unbearable, causing an unprecedented overstrain of all body systems. Historians note that this type of punishment was probably used throughout Europe, although there is no exact information about the number of punished.

Prison torture, widely used in the modern era, are especially sophisticated in the Middle East.

Detention centers operate in Egypt, Iran, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, where prisoners are physically and mentally tortured using electric shocks, isolation, beatings, threats of rape and other methods, including tying to a spit and roasting over a fire.

Modernity, American experience


The historical context is important to scrutinize in terms of comparing how it has developed over time from history to the present, to see how modern torture can have very similar patterns and connections to ancient times.

Despite the prohibition of torture, the practice persisted in the XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries, when the police used it mainly to obtain information.

Currently, the United States routinely tortures its prisoners, either directly through personnel associated with the military, intelligence services, or private contractors, or indirectly by sending prisoners to torture in Egypt, Ethiopia, Jordan, Morocco, Pakistan, Syria, or elsewhere. ...

Torture itself is not a new American practice.

Bush's new policy.

With the exception of two short periods - after the end of World War II and the Cold War, respectively - when American administrations were the driving force in making the prohibition of torture a rule of international law through the Geneva Conventions and the United Nations Convention against Torture, torture has been a feature of American court rulings.

Many Bush administration leaders continued to advocate the use of torture in interrogation long after the program officially ended.

In the aftermath of 11/XNUMX, the US Department of Defense developed an aggressive plan to find out how the attacks happened.

One of the leaders of this program writes about the participants in the first meetings, among whom were the "plague of lawyers" and many psychologists, have no experience in interrogation or intelligence gathering... Operations became increasingly chaotic. The already unclear rules and regulations applicable to interrogation became more and more vague.

This, in turn, opened the door for inexperienced and unprepared people to develop ill-conceived practices in Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib prison, Bagram and several other places.

Liberal ideology of torture


Torture has been an integral part of the justice system in the West for over two thousand years, and it was not until the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries that it gained notoriety. It was an instrument of power and justice, a method of punishment or revenge, and a tool for obtaining information and confessions.

Thus, torture is what the authorities, the legal system, the police use. Torture is a legal practice.

This aspect has not gone unnoticed by the Bush administration.

The regime's lawyers, recruited from the country's leading law schools, used their professional talents to create a legal space in which torture would be tolerated.

In his 2006 presidential address, Bush outlined the liberal ideology of torture with great rhetorical skill.

The world is faced with a completely new kind of enemies that cannot be fought with conventional methods.
For this reason, the government has provided military and intelligence services with new "tools" of war. The "most important source" of important military information is "the terrorists themselves." They have "unique knowledge" about future attacks. "Our safety depends on receiving such information." To "win the war on terror," it is necessary to "move these people to an environment where they can be detained, secretly interrogated by experts and, if necessary, prosecuted for terrorist acts."

Bush explained that to protect innocent Americans, he allowed interrogations to use an "alternative set of procedures" that would not be made public for security reasons.

Our terrorist enemies and supporters of their state have declared themselves enemies of the civilized order and its humanitarian rules. In the fight against them, we, of course, must adhere to our own high moral standards, without succumbing, however, to the utopian idea that we can win by impeccably observing all the prescriptions of the Sermon on the Mount. In this fallen world, we must stop evil by force.

Turn to "pure torture"


Gradually over the past century or so, and especially since the 1960s and 1970s, torture has changed around the world as practitioners increasingly relied on methods and techniques that left no visible traces.

Unlike “scarring techniques”, which physically incapacitate and somehow visually deform the human body, “pure torture” is much more difficult to read on the human body.

These include electrocution, beatings, water torture, dry asphyxiation, extreme temperatures, exhaustion exercises, positional torture, restraints, salts and spices, drugs and irritants, sleep deprivation, noise, and sensory deprivation.

Torture was and is an unsolvable problem in the global “war on terror”, in which a number of European countries were implicated, in particular, in the form of complicity in the extradition of persons, which often ended in torture at the “receiving side”.

In an accessible, large 2004 survey, Amnesty International “documented allegations of torture and ill-treatment in 132 states - two-thirds of the member states of the United Nations, and in 2005 the organization reported“ documented cases ”of torture in more than half of the Commission's countries. UN Human Rights.

Prohibition of torture


Today, torture is prohibited by international law and the domestic law of most states. By now, the use of torture is criminalized in almost all countries of the world.

In a number of countries, for the very fact of torture (regardless of the consequences), the perpetrator faces long prison terms:

14 years - in Canada;
15 years in France;
25 years in Argentina;
30 years in Guatemala.

In the UK, the use of methods of physical pressure on prisoners was finally banned in 1971 - after it became known about the ill-treatment of suspects in connection with the terrorist organization IRA. Currently, under UK criminal law, torture is punishable by up to life imprisonment.

Vocabulary


Torture does not have a clear legal meaning, in part because there has been no general and systematic attempt to draw a line between “torture” and “non-torture”.

One reason may be that, in international human rights instruments, torture is usually associated with “cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment”.

Both that and another were generally under an absolute ban. As a result, although some judicial decisions have separated torture from cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment, the legal outcome should formally be the same, but this has not been confirmed in practice.

While most of us intuitively understand what is meant by torture, it is difficult to find a clear and objective definition. This word has deep emotional and political connotations.

Definition of torture.

Any action as a result of which a person is intentionally inflicted with severe pain or suffering, physical or mental, for such purposes as obtaining information or confession from him or a third party, punishing him for an action that he or a third party has committed or is suspected of committing, intimidation or coercion of him or a third party, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is caused or at the instigation, with the consent or tacit consent of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.

The Declaration on Torture describes two forms of practice: on the one hand, “torture” itself, and on the other, “cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment”.

The term “torture” lends a particular stigma to willful inhuman treatment that inflicts very serious and cruel suffering.

In addition to involving a public official, at least with tacit consent, this definition contains three main criteria:

• causing severe physical or mental pain or suffering; with intention;

• and also inflicted by a police officer (or with his or her consent or tacit consent);

• for a specific purpose, for example, to obtain recognition or information.

Geneva Conventions against Torture


Torture is clearly and unequivocally prohibited in existing international agreements, such as the UN Declaration on the Protection of All Persons from Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Punishment (1975) and the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or punishment, or CAT (1984, entered into force 1987).

The Geneva Conventions also contain certain provisions prohibiting torture and ill-treatment (common article 3 of the Geneva Conventions (common to the four Geneva Conventions of 1949 and Additional Protocol II), prohibiting “violence against life and human being, in particular, killing of all kinds, mutilation, ill-treatment and torture, as well as an infringement on human dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment “in all circumstances”.

In the Russian translation of the 1984 Convention, the generally recognized international legal concept "torture" was translated by the word "torture", which traditionally has a narrower meaning in Russian. Since 2003, the Russian legislation has its own definition of the concept of "torture". Federal law of December 8, 2003 to art. 117 of the Criminal Code of Russia "Torture" added a note, according to which torture in this and other articles of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation means "causing physical or mental suffering in order to coerce testimony or other actions contrary to the will of a person, as well as for punishment or in other purposes ".

Thus, the Russian legislator, contrary to the general trend of modern criminal law, refused to criminalize torture as an independent grave crime.

That is, the difference in the words and interpretation of "torture" and "torture" carries a different legal meaning and consequences.

Good torture?


Time bomb scenario.

The "time bomb" scenario was used to try to justify the use of torture in extreme circumstances, out of paramount necessity.

In this ideal scenario, where the suspect is already in custody, the argument is that large-scale human casualties could have been prevented if torture had been permissible in order to obtain the necessary information.

Imagine US agents arresting a famous al-Qaeda terrorist. The terrorist admits that he has planted a powerful bomb that is about to explode in New York, but refuses to say where the bomb is.
Using standard interrogation techniques, agents cannot force a terrorist to reveal the location of a time bomb.

Some officials advocate the use of torture to force the terrorist to speak. Others argue that torture violates international and US law and is not a reliable way to obtain information.

The time bomb metaphor has been repeatedly used to justify the use of torture in extreme circumstances.

A specialized agency like the CIA has a terrorist in custody. He is the only source of information on where the bomb is located.
The question is whether this suspect should be tortured in order to force him or her to disclose information that could potentially save many lives.
Many people believe that in such a situation, agents should do whatever they can to find the bomb, including torturing a terrorist.
Time bomb proponents argue that "torture may not be right ... but overkill is worse, so the lesser evil must be tolerated to prevent the greater."
Others strongly disagree.
Some believe that torture is absolutely wrong and the end (saving lives) cannot justify the means (torture).

Inflicting pain on a bad guy for a short time is justified if he has a chance to save hundreds of innocent lives.

The cost of harming one person by torture - a person who is guilty of a time bomb conspiracy and therefore does not merit humane consideration - is considered the outweighed benefit of saving many lives.

Many security officials in the US government during the Bush administration followed this logic. They believed that torture, as a method of interrogation, was necessary to protect America from a catastrophic terrorist attack. The torture had to be allowed to stop the great catastrophe.

A little pain inflicted on one person is worth it because it takes away a lot of pain for many others.

Treatment of a terrorism suspect.

The methods of torture have indeed changed, and this may explain how it happens in liberal democracies like the United States in this case, where methods of torture included forced standing, electric shock, etc., as well as psychological pressure: methods that do not leave the physical traces.

In addition to physical torture, psychological torture can be used, such as threatening to execute a suspect, holding a gun to his head, threatening to castrate him, telling him that you are going to kill his family members if he does not give you the information you are looking for, and similar methods that, while not causing physical pain, cause mental pain or suffering, even if there is no intent to carry out such threats.

The United States interprets the UN Convention to mean that such infliction of mental pain or suffering must continue to be considered torture.

In some cases, torture may not cause physical discomfort at all: for example, forcing a Muslim to fall to his knees and kiss a cross can be humiliation and torture.

Using truth serum or other mind-altering substances may very well be legal under US law.

An intelligence agency that can use up-to-date knowledge to solve its problems has tremendous advantages over an agency that tortures people in an eighteenth century style.

American psychologists have conducted scientific research on many topics that are closely related to interrogation: the effects of weakness and isolation, polygraph, reactions to pain and fear, hypnosis and increased suggestibility, anesthesia, etc.

On April 16, 2009, the US Department of Justice launched a series of memoranda, led by Bush administration lawyer John Yew, outlining the US legal basis for forced interrogation in Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) prisons.

The memorandum attracted international media attention by describing the various methods of torture proposed by the CIA and the conditions under which a Justice Department attorney considers them permissible. It lists ten techniques:

(1) grabbing attention, (2) fencing, (3) holding, (4) slap (offensive slap), (5) tightness, (6) standing against a wall, (7) tense positions, (8) sleep deprivation, ( 9) insects placed in the chamber, (l0) water shield.

Water board (water shield).

Perhaps the most notorious interrogation technique used in the United States - now called the "water board" - has its roots in medieval torture chambers.

In one technique, the person being interrogated is tied to a board and the board is tilted so that the prisoner's head is immersed in a pool of water.

Alternatively, water is poured down the throat of the detained prisoner.

This simulated execution is terrifying as the struggling suspect is forced to experience the sensation of drowning.

The procedure can be repeated many times (although suspects may need to be revived if unconscious) without leaving any physical bruises or scars.

Torture is a response to an urgent threat.

After the terrorist attacks on the United States in September 2001, torture interrogations of terrorists became publicly available. The call was that the rare use of torture to interrogate key terrorists could thwart terrorist plans of mass destruction.

Experience of the Korean War.

William Hines, then-Pentagon legal adviser, played a major role in promoting and endorsing this kind of practice at the highest level. Most of the ideas he later presented for approval to then-Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, came from a program he created for the US military called Survival, Maneuver, Resist, Escape.

In it, US military personnel were instructed on how to physically and psychologically resist torture if captured by an enemy. In part, the program's calculations were based on the history of torture used against Americans during the Korean War. Half a century later, the United States drew on the experience of the enemy against new enemies - suspected terrorists.

Emergencies.

Some American legal scholars have suggested that in emergencies such as so-called bomb cases, judges should be given the power to order “non-lethal torture” on a suspect believed to have life-saving information.

The use of torture in Guantanamo Bay and in secret, so-called "black spots" in the Middle East was clearly based on this assertion. Although the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib went beyond the official purpose of obtaining information, these violations were initiated and legitimized by an official directive to prepare prisoners for interrogation.

Abu Ghraib - a prison in the Iraqi city of the same name, located 32 km west of Baghdad. The infamous Abu Ghraib prison since the days of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was turned by the Americans after the invasion of Iraq into a detention center for Iraqis accused of committing crimes against the forces of the Western coalition.

At the end of April 2004, 60 Minutes II on the CBS channel aired a story about the torture and abuse of prisoners in Abu Ghraib prison by a group of American soldiers.


The plot featured photographs that were published in The New Yorker a few days later. This became the loudest scandal around the American presence in Iraq.

In particular, the prisoners said:

“They made us walk on all fours like dogs and yapped. We had to bark like dogs, and if you didn't bark, then you were hit in the face without any pity. After that, they threw us in the cells, took away the mattresses, poured water on the floor and forced us to sleep in this slurry, without removing the hoods from our heads. And all this was photographed all the time ”.

Torture with someone else's hands.

The United States has also transferred prisoners of war and suspected terrorism to the military and intelligence forces of countries with less than favorable human rights records:

“Since September 11, the CIA has organized the imprisonment of 230 suspects in 40 countries around the world. One notable aspect of handing over potential terrorists to foreign security services is that these states use interrogation techniques that include torture and threats against family members. ”

Pure torture.

The "scientific" technologies approved by the CIA were methods of pure torture, that is, physical methods that leave no trace: electric shock, genital torture, sensory deprivation, watering, fear, psychoactive drugs, stress positions, sexual humiliation, etc. and beatings with rackets, sandbags, electric batons, or other objects that, when used correctly, would hurt without leaving a trace.

For the CIA, the scientific approach had a twofold benefit: it was more effective and denied the tortured person the opportunity to share their experiences: the torture story requires visible scars to confirm.

American congressmen were quite critical of the torture activities of the CIA.


Main conclusions from a condemning report by the US Senate Intelligence Committee regarding the methods of detention and interrogation used by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 attacks:

1. The CIA's use of its sophisticated interrogation techniques was not an effective means of obtaining intelligence or a way to enlist cooperation with detainees.

2. The CIA's justification for using its advanced interrogation techniques was based on inaccurate claims of their effectiveness.

3. Interrogations of detainees by the CIA were brutal and far worse than the CIA imagined it to politicians and others.

4. The conditions of detention of the CIA detainees were harsher than the CIA presented it to politicians and others.

5. The CIA has repeatedly provided inaccurate information to the Department of Justice, which has prevented proper legal analysis of the CIA's arrest and interrogation program.

6. The CIA actively avoided or obstructed Congressional oversight of the program.

7. The CIA obstructed effective oversight and decision-making by the White House.

8. CIA operation and program management have complicated and in some cases obstructed national security missions of other executive agencies.

9. The CIA obstructed oversight by the CIA's Office of the Inspector General.

10. The CIA coordinated the provision of classified information to the media, including inaccurate information about the effectiveness of the CIA's improved interrogation techniques.

11. The CIA was still unprepared when it began its program of arrest and interrogation more than six months after receiving its custody authority.

12. The CIA's management and implementation of its detention and interrogation program was deeply flawed throughout the program's life, especially in 2002 and 2003.

13. Two contract psychologists developed improved CIA interrogation techniques and played a central role in the operation, evaluation and management of the CIA's arrest and interrogation program. By 2005, the CIA had overwhelmingly transferred operations related to the program.

14. CIA detainees were subjected to coercive interrogation methods that were not approved by the Department of Justice and were not sanctioned by the CIA headquarters.

15. The CIA did not maintain an exhaustive and accurate record of the number of persons it detained and detained persons who did not meet legal standards of detention. CIA statements about the number of people detained and subjected to enhanced interrogation methods were inaccurate.

16. The CIA was unable to adequately assess the effectiveness of its improved interrogation techniques.

17. The CIA rarely reprimanded or held personnel accountable for serious and material misconduct, misconduct, and systemic and individual management errors.

18. The CIA has marginalized and ignored numerous internal criticisms, criticisms and objections regarding the operation and management of the CIA's arrest and interrogation program.

19. The CIA's arrest and interrogation program was inherently volatile and effectively ended by 2006 due to unauthorized disclosures in the press, reduced cooperation with other countries, and problems with law and oversight.

20. The CIA's arrest and interrogation program damaged the reputation of the United States in the world and resulted in other significant monetary and non-monetary costs.

What laws prohibit torture?


Several international treaties prohibit torture in all circumstances, including the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, Article 5 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“IPPC”) and the UN Convention against Torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment ("UN Convention"). These conventions usually impose an absolute prohibition on the use of torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

However, it is clear that "no exceptional circumstances, be it a state of war or the threat of war, internal political stability or any other state of emergency, can justify torture."

Thus, the prohibition is absolute, with no exceptions.

Finally, there are a number of non-legally binding UN guidelines, recommendations and codes of conduct that contain relevant provisions and apply to specific groups, such as law enforcement officials, or specific situations, such as places of deprivation of liberty.

These include:

• Code of Conduct for UN Law Enforcement Officials (1979).

• UN Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms weapons law enforcement officials (1990).

• UN Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners (1957).

There are also a number of codes of practice and guidelines on this subject.

It is also worth mentioning in this context the OSCE Handbook on the Prevention of Torture (1999), which was the first attempt to summarize the lessons learned so far.

Regional and International Law on the Prohibition of Torture


Key regional and international treaties related to torture:

• 1950 European Convention on Human Rights.
• International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights 1966.
• 1987 European Convention for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.
• 1984 UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.
• 2002 Optional Protocol to the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

Russia and 14 other states are equally parties to all treaties, with the exception of the Optional Protocol to the 2002 Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

All of these 15 states are parties to the European Convention for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

All of these states have ratified the four Geneva Conventions of 1949, and (with the exception of Turkey) all of them are also parties to the Additional Protocols I and II to the Geneva Conventions.

Torture of suspects in the United States or abroad


In signing the Convention against Torture, the United States agreed that "no exceptional circumstance, be it a state of war or threat of war, internal political instability or any other state of emergency, can justify torture."

The Court has indicated on many occasions that investigations must be effective in the sense that they are capable of leading to the establishment of what happened and the identification of the perpetrators.

In addition, investigations must be prompt, impartial and effective.

Although States have various systems for the investigation of torture, including special police or prosecutorial units and independent complaints bodies, in practice there are many obstacles that often lead to impunity.

The US Supreme Court stated:

“The right to interrogate those detained, guilty or arrested in the interests of the nation should take precedence over the human right to personal liberty.
The Latin maxim salus populi su Supreme alex (the security of the people is the supreme law) and salus republicae su Supreme alex (the security of the state is the supreme law) coexist and are not only important and relevant, but also underlie the doctrine that the well-being of an individual should yield to well-being society.
However, the actions of the state must be “correct and fair”.

Such a suspect in a crime must be interrogated, indeed subjected to a lengthy and scientific interrogation in accordance with the provisions of the law. However, he must not be tortured, used third-degree methods or tortured with the aim of obtaining information, confessing or obtaining information about his accomplices, weapons, etc.
His constitutional right cannot be limited in the manner permitted by law, although the method of interrogating such a person will be qualitatively different from the interrogation of an ordinary criminal. "

International practice


Until recently, torture was widespread in Israel, commonplace and legalized. While the state has always denied that it used torture, interrogation techniques known as “moderate physical pressure” were considered acceptable, lawful and necessary in Israel's fight against the Palestinians, which it considered a security threat.

These methods included: relentless lack of sleep; chaining detainees to posts and other structures in torturous positions; beatings; exposure to extreme temperatures, incessant harsh lights and roaring music; and threats to family members.

There is now evidence that torture is being used by military juntas such as the Myanmar junta in countries including Jordan, Syria, Pakistan, as well as by the US military in Guantanamo Bay, Iraq and elsewhere.

Russia's special way


The history of torture in Russia and the USSR has its own characteristics and traditions. This is a topic for a separate study for researchers who are more competent than the author.

We will only discuss recent events.

On October 5, human rights activists from the "Gulagu.net" project reported that they had in their hands an archive of video recordings of about 40 gigabytes, which depicted cases of torture in institutions of the Federal Penitentiary Service of Russia. These videos were recorded by the FSIN officers themselves on service video recorders. Several published records shocked with their cruelty: prisoners were brutally beaten, a mop handle was inserted into the anus, and humiliated.

If regular video recorders are used to record torture, then this is a completely official story., in which employees of the Federal Penitentiary Service participate, and video exchange between institutions indicates the presence of a system.

The people acting within its framework believe that they are doing everything right. In their understanding, it should be so. And they know that if something happens, the system will “cover” them and protect them from punishment.

Human rights defenders describe how it works.

What does the system do?

She takes a person who claims to be a thief in law or a criminal authority, performs sexual acts on him - anything from light versions to rape by a person or with the help of objects - and records everything on video. Possessing such a video, the system can control this person and his behavior, blackmail him.
If he agrees to no longer adhere to thieves' concepts, then the video is simply stored "just in case." And if the prisoner continues to misbehave, the video is used to blackmail him and turn his life into hell.

Immediately before this article was published, the author watched several available videos of torture in a prison hospital in the Saratov region. Only a small part has been made public, but this is enough to understand that not only “problem prisoners” were subjected to bullying and torture, they were massive in nature and, at least, the recorded episodes took place on the direct instructions of the leadership of the FSIN officers or "activists" from among the prisoners.

This story will definitely have a continuation, especially after the publication of the main part of the video archive, which is expected to happen in the coming days.

According to human rights activists, of all the participants in the torture of prisoners, only 15–20 percent of the FSIN officers are tortured on command from above. The remaining 80 percent are people with mental problems and are extremely dangerous to society.

And they transfer their aggression not only to criminal bosses (which is also illegal), but to a lot of prisoners involved in minor offenses, or generally innocent, and sentenced on the basis of judicial errors or crimes.

The FSIN is doing this because other methods of re-education are more complicated and expensive, but this does not mean that they do not exist.

The FSIN is an element of the state system. The presence of a huge amount of aggression in society, from television screens to the actions and rhetoric of the authorities themselves, lead to intra-system aggression.

And this is all interconnected.


Conclusion


Torture exists because it is embedded in a system that views it as an effective deterrent, and is used as a means to obtain information, punish suspected terrorists, impose discipline or psychological superiority, and threaten and warn those still at large. reflects on the injustice of the existing order and reflects on changing it.

The renaissance of torture in the XNUMXst century can be seen as a "strengthening" of power using various strategies of social control. This increase in power, as seen in the “war on terror,” led to the use of torture and total disregard for human rights.
The use of techniques that amount to torture generates pain, suffering, humiliation, fear, anger and, ultimately, hatred, not only in the tortured person, but throughout society.

This hatred can increase the threat of terrorism.

When people in power are allowed to treat prisoners in cruel, inhuman and degrading ways, violence quickly becomes legalized - it becomes part of the usual way of solving problems.

Those who have to use torture often become so violent that they abuse their role, torturing only for pleasure or revenge. When this happens, no one is immune.

The only way to protect people is to treat everyone as having fundamental human rights that no government, group or individual can legally take away. If this rule is applied consistently, justice will prevail.

It is clear that this is a declaration of justice. And life will always make adjustments.

It means that not everything is so smooth in the Danish kingdom and in all other states, including Russia.

This phenomenon is adaptable to the country and the type of government, its needs and goals, the "war on terror" clearly demonstrated how governments have found it possible to justify the use of torture where the terrorist is considered to be not subject to the law, which therefore allows responding him in an illegal way.

Moreover, the label of a terrorist can be hanged arbitrarily, without any logical or legal justification, which justifies further physical and psychological torture. The presence of a huge amount of aggression, from television screens to the actions and rhetoric of the authorities themselves, lead to intra-system aggression.

Governments have a responsibility to protect their citizens, but they must not fight terror with terror. It is impossible to defend principles such as human rights through acts of violence that undermine them.
This is contradictory and hypocritical.

Torture is not only unethical and contrary to true democratic values, but also to the human ideal that claims to be the crown of the creation of the Universe.

What kind of crown?

According to divine and cosmic criteria, mankind, in terms of the manifestation of aggression towards its own kind at all levels from state to everyday life, can be recognized only conditionally or potentially reasonable.

PS


Returning to the topic of the previous article by the author about Artificial intelligence (AI) and its dangers...

What kind of AI can create a state with such morality and ideas about acceptable methods and practices of government and violence?

The question, of course, is rhetorical.
93 comments
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  1. +8
    21 October 2021 05: 51
    The only way to protect people is to treat everyone as having fundamental human rights that no government, group or individual can legally take away.

    There is another way ... to exclude direct contact between staff and prisoners ... by entrusting delicate work to machines, robots, and various smart tracking systems.
    Any contact between people should be documented and placed on the table of the prosecutor and the human rights activist.
    Such a system would be impartial and impersonal. what
    And torture is basically a mental illness ... here it is already necessary to treat the one who tortures the person.
    Especially it is necessary to protect young guys with their weak psyche from this information ... it often blows them away from this.
    1. +3
      21 October 2021 06: 20
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      There is another way ...

      Okay, obscurantism as a politician, what to take from the "beacon of democracy" from America, and from our defenders of the "young state with a thousand-year history", but the twenty-first century is in the yard, where are the successes of PHARMACOLOGY?
      1. +3
        21 October 2021 06: 22
        where is the success of PHARMACOLOGY?

        Ha ... what compare the price of a dental file and a cure for forgetfulness ... the difference is 1000 times ... here business comes into play ... nothing personal.
        1. +4
          21 October 2021 06: 24
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          compare the price of a dental file and a cure for forgetfulness

          This means torture for the sake of torture, that's all, not for the sake of data, but for the sake of torture.
          1. +3
            21 October 2021 06: 27
            torture for the sake of torture, that's all, not for the sake of data, but for the sake of torture.

            So I say that those who torture sick people ... they themselves should be treated with advanced drugs of pharmacology.

            And then where is the guarantee that those who have tested pharmacology on prisoners will not test it on their masters ... it is risky to let the gin out of the bottle. hi
            1. +7
              21 October 2021 06: 47
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              So I say that those who torture sick people ... they themselves should be treated with advanced drugs of pharmacology.

              I agree, and now it turns out that torture is a "performer's excess" - bad, but not a deliberate policy, then the United States is a state policy and this means that the United States of America is a sadistic state, a maniac state.
              1. 0
                21 October 2021 06: 48
                The United States of America is a sadistic state, a maniac state.

                It is logical ... I have nothing to argue here ... just how to treat this state? what
              2. +1
                23 October 2021 11: 06
                here torture is "kurtosis of the performer"))))

                Then it turns out that in Russia the entire Federal Penitentiary Service is one big performer, if mops were inserted into the point on direct instructions and under the control of officers of the Federal Penitentiary Service?
          2. +23
            21 October 2021 06: 54
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            It means torture for the sake of torture, that's all

            And there are those who are willing to pay for it
      2. 0
        25 October 2021 14: 06
        Pharmacology alone does not work .... compare "Lie detector" and "Lie detector" after a week without sleep and beatings. Where will there be more truth and sensitivity? And + pharmacology.
        1. 0
          25 October 2021 14: 16
          Quote: Zaurbek
          compare "Lie Detector" and "Lie Detector" after a week without sleep and beatings. Where will there be more truth and sensitivity? And + pharmacology.
          Fortunately, there is no experience, but knowledge suggests that a lie detector will not be able to stupidly remove normal readings from a person with an abnormal reaction, which means there is little sense from it.
          Quote: Zaurbek
          Pharmacology itself does not work.
          Do you think a person needs to be beaten for the drugs to work? Even analgin? laughing Joke.
          1. +1
            25 October 2021 15: 24
            I mean that a person must be "prepared correctly" for the detector .... torture, chemistry, torture + chemistry ........ probably this is science and there are specialists in this.
  2. +9
    21 October 2021 06: 34
    Good and bad torture - the title of the article is simply touching .. smile Those who wrote in the Opinions section moved to the History section .. The section is gone.
    1. 0
      21 October 2021 06: 39
      Opinions, moved to the History section .. The section is gone.

      What are you ... everything corresponds to the spirit of the times ... executioners, victims, bloody satraps and dictators, UFOs, witches, clairvoyants, etc. ... so everything is fine life is beautiful and in full swing. smile
    2. +5
      21 October 2021 07: 47
      What was it? In my opinion, a kind of attempt to set a record - 50 661 signs! Everything is in a heap, no structure, no plot, "what I know, then I sing." Periodic reruns and returns. What for? You still need to work with the text.
    3. +1
      21 October 2021 14: 31
      Those who wrote in the Opinions section moved to the History section .. The section is gone.

      Thoughts, thoughts of people overwhelm and demand to share, and in Opinions they are already pushing their elbows. laughing
  3. +6
    21 October 2021 06: 39
    Yes-ah ... This is for you, gentlemen, not to sit in some Dutch prison with an Internet connection, a telephone and your personal camera key ... wink
  4. +8
    21 October 2021 06: 51
    The topic is interesting, but the article is chaotic, besides, it is very overloaded with an attempt to cram something unproductive into oneself, IMHO. I didn't understand these two points at all:
    It is known that in the Middle Ages almost every castle had its own set of instruments for torture. This was allowed by law only if there was already half-evidence or at least denunciations against the accused.
    And if the accused was not there - it was not allowed to have a torture kit ???
    и
    Torture ranges from physical, psychological to political interrogation methods
    Political torture is, in general, how? An anarchist walks in front of a monarchist and teases him with the fact that he is an anarchist, and a monarchist at this time has such a personal dislike that he cannot eat ???
    Py.Sy. In general, it is logical to split the topic into several articles, because in this one, for example, the topic of oriental torture is absolutely not disclosed (the same Chinese experiments with hungry rats, water dripping on their heads, bamboo sprouting through their ass, etc.).
    1. 0
      21 October 2021 06: 58
      For example, the topic of oriental torture is absolutely not disclosed (the same Chinese experiments with hungry rats, water dripping on their heads, bamboo sprouting through their ass, etc.).

      No details ... here the youngsters are reading this ... who knows what they will get into their heads. hi
      1. +3
        21 October 2021 07: 07
        The article contains enough details without it, even with explanatory illustrations. And young animals, if they wish, can easily find the information they need on the vast expanses of the Web. Or by reading "Queen Margot" by Alexander our Dumas laughing
  5. +5
    21 October 2021 06: 54
    Torture is not only unethical and contrary to true democratic values, but also the human ideal that claims to be the crown of the creation of the Universe.

    Well, when this, as you call it, "the crown of the creation of the Universe" stops committing murders, molestation and other "pranks", then the torture will stop. Is not it?
  6. +8
    21 October 2021 07: 58
    Terribly stretched confused article
    1. +6
      21 October 2021 08: 06
      Quote: Olgovich
      Terribly stretched confused article

      Far too stretched - 50661 signs. This has never happened at VO in all the years!
  7. +4
    21 October 2021 08: 09
    Ndaa ... in the History section, they merge everything that is horrible, it is enough to mention the Persians, it will be recognized as an "article" on a historical theme. Although it cannot be called an article, from the word at all. "Confusion, instead of music" (c)
  8. +9
    21 October 2021 08: 17
    This hatred can increase the threat of terrorism.
    I don’t know how terrorism is there, but the more frequent attacks of former convicts on our children evoke bad thoughts about these very tortures, in the light of the latest revelations. In prison, some are raped, and then they leave with a broken psyche and come off already on the most defenseless.
  9. +5
    21 October 2021 08: 31
    This is the main difference between Homo sapiens and other representatives of the fauna. Unfortunately, not in favor of the first.
  10. -6
    21 October 2021 08: 38
    And why not a word has been written about the massive and numerous tortures in the USSR .... for example, during the time of Beria and Stalin.
    1. -5
      21 October 2021 09: 45
      Why do you, enemies of the USSR, never write anything about torture in the Russian Empire? About the torture used by the White Guards and White Cossacks, whom you praise? NO benefit?
  11. BAI
    +11
    21 October 2021 08: 58
    The Assyrians skin their captives alive.

    The skin is removed from the animals. Skin is ripped off people.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 23: 10
      I remembered the film "Cold Summer of 53". Phrase- "Shura, that's what I will say. People, especially now, cannot be trusted. People, Shura, are such k ... ly"
  12. +4
    21 October 2021 09: 15
    I saw the size and did not read.
    Khoja Nasredin had a good torture with a stick and a rope noose.
  13. +2
    21 October 2021 09: 51
    Torture, also known as Catherine's wheel, was used to slowly kill a victim. First, the victim's limbs were tied to the spokes of a large wooden wheel, which then slowly rotated. At the same time, the executioner simultaneously smashed the victim's limbs with an iron hammer, trying to break them in many places.

    There was no such execution in Russia until Peter I introduced it, following the example of Europe. They tied a person to a wooden X-cross, where there were recesses under each large bone and broke them with a crowbar. Further, using false compositions at the sites of fractures, they called the feet-hands to the wheel in the area of ​​the shoulder blades. The man died for 3-4 days from thirst and shock.
  14. +6
    21 October 2021 10: 03
    And for what purpose was this abomination, and even so detailed, with instructions, published on the VO website?
    1. Fat
      +2
      21 October 2021 15: 00
      Quote: Pushkar
      And for what purpose was this abomination, and even so detailed, with instructions, published on the VO website?

      hi Sergey. It seems to me that the moderator just glanced at an article with an intriguing title, not reading much ... For what purpose?
      Power is not a means; she is the goal. A dictatorship is not instituted to guard the revolution; a revolution is made in order to establish a dictatorship. The goal of repression is repression. The purpose of torture is torture. The goal of power is power.
      <...>
      If you want an image of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a person's face - forever. And remember that this is forever. There is always a face for trampling. There will always be a heretic, an enemy of society, in order to be defeated and humiliated again and again.
      <...>
      - How many fingers do I show, Winston?
      - Four.
      - And if the party says that there are not four, but five, then how many? ..

      from "1984" by George Orwell.
      1. +1
        21 October 2021 15: 34
        Quote: Thick
        It seems to me that the moderator just glanced at an article with an intriguing title, not reading much ... For what purpose?

        I think - just to attract new visitors to the site. Hype.
        1. Fat
          +2
          21 October 2021 15: 45
          Too long for the hype. For the hype, something else is needed, for example, the theory of the world conspiracy, the alcohol and drug theme, old recipes, aliens, supernatural phenomena, the uprising of machines, Hyperboreans and erotica laughing
  15. +6
    21 October 2021 10: 29
    Another, alas, agitation. Quite specific content ...
    By the way, the progressive and tolerant Western society brings new theories under the current torture and even finds them almost moral justification.

    And who is the "progressive Western society"? The policy of the US federal government specifically is not the "opinion of the whole society" even in the US itself, let alone in other countries.
    https://www.amnestyusa.org/waterboarding-is-torture-3-things-you-need-to-know/
    https://www.aclu.org/other/what-waterboarding
    Here you are, also the views of civil society structures in the United States itself. In short, the so-called Guantanamo Prison were used. "methods of intensive interrogation" are torture, and their use is a gross and criminal violation of human rights.
    There is only one very important "but" - the use of torture by the US federal government does NOT justify the commission of similar human rights violations by the governments of other countries, and thus the governments of other countries do NOT have any right to make their own citizens a condition for the termination of the use of torture by the cessation of similar practices by the US federal government.
    because other methods of re-education are more complicated and expensive, but this does not mean that they do not exist.

    This is not a "reeducation method" at all. This is senseless and sadistic cruelty. And, of course, a crime against divine and human laws.
    Liberal ideology of torture

    And where is liberalism then? What does it have to do with it?
    Well, to summarize all of the above ..
    Quote: "The ruling Senate, knowing the importance of this abuse and to what extent it is contrary to the very first foundations of justice and oppressively with all civil rights, will not leave at this point to make everywhere, throughout the empire the most rigorous confirmation that nowhere, under any guise, in higher, nor in lower governments and courts, no one dared to do, admit, or execute any torture, on pain of inevitable and severe punishment, so that the public places, by which the law provides the decision of criminal cases, as the basis of their judgments and sentences, put the personal of the accused before by the court the consciousness that during the investigation they would not be subject to any biased interrogation and that, finally, the very name of torture inflicting shame and reproach on humanity was erased forever from the memory of humanity. " (c) Alexander I Pavlovich Romanov (1777-1825)
  16. +4
    21 October 2021 12: 29
    I barely mastered the article. I read and waited - when it was over, but it all does not end and does not end. And now, finally, "Adventure" ... Well, I think I'll find out now, at least, what I read about. Not a fig. I still didn't understand anything. request
    I don’t know, for me torture is a form of forced pressure on a person in order to obtain information or perform other actions necessary for the torturer.
    If the purpose of such influence is entertainment, punishment (revenge) or something else, this is no longer torture, but torture.
    So, torture has always been, is and will be. At the state level, I mean, regardless of whether the state recognizes torture or not. State security is too serious a question to be neglected in its provision with proven and proven methods for some incomprehensible humanistic considerations.
    Countries that have legalized torture are simply more honest with the world community and their citizens. Or they just don't give a damn about this world community.
    It all reminds me of the men's department in the bathhouse, where men in every way try to cover the crotch so that no one can see what is there. But then a healthy man appears who does not hide behind. Everyone looks at him and turns away, keeping quiet. But when one of the men jumps up and points a finger at a nearby spaty little man: "Look, look, he has there ... You know what? He has there ... A MEMBER !!! I saw!", Then everyone starts to show too finger and shout: "Atu him! He has a dick! How can you? To a decent company! With a dick! Fu-oo-oo!" ...
    Here, something like this happens with torture.
    A question like "are you for torture or against?" sounds similar to the question "are you for gravity or against?" Gravity, as well as torture, do not care what people think and say about them. They are.
    If in some state torture is not used (oh, I doubt that there are any!), It means that there are just fools sitting there, like that Komsomol member from the joke that overcame difficulties and even made love exclusively in a hammock and standing.
    1. +6
      21 October 2021 12: 56
      overcame difficulties and even made love exclusively in a hammock and standing.

      I knew the option when he was mowing the grass with a mask, fins and scuba gear. wink
      then everyone starts pointing their fingers and shouting: "Atu him! He has a dick! How can you? Into a decent company! With a dick! Fu-oo-oo!" ...

      Once at a dinner party, Lieutenant Rzhevsky thought about the deep philosophy of Kant, and accidentally took an oyster fork with the wrong hand ...
      "Fi, how uncivilized," said the old countess sitting nearby.
      Since then, they have been telling various nasty things about the lieutenant! request

      Mikhail, to be honest, there is nothing to read ... I agree with many of our comrades. hi
      1. +6
        21 October 2021 13: 11
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        I knew the option when he was mowing the grass with a mask, fins and scuba gear.

        Well, yes, and then, when he was offered to do carnal pleasures, he said that he would only do this while standing in a hammock. smile
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        to be honest - there is nothing to read

        Because there is no one to write to.
        A lot of people gather here, smart, with rich life experience, the ability to structure and express their thoughts, who can write something sensible, interesting, but, alas ... Others write for them.
        Yesterday's article about Pskov, for example, killed me completely. Only Samsonov's nonsense about a super-ethnos can be worse.
        1. +3
          21 October 2021 13: 18
          stated that he would only do this while standing in a hammock.

          Exclusively standing in a hammock!
          A lot of people gather here, smart, with rich life experience, the ability to structure and express their thoughts, who can write something sensible, interesting, but, alas ... Others write for them.

          These people combine VO reading with their main activity - they do not have much time to write.
          Yesterday's article about Pskov, for example, killed me completely.

          He glanced at the opinions of the overwhelming majority of his comrades, caught a glimpse of the propaganda bias - and did not read it seriously. Everything is clear anyway.
        2. Fat
          +3
          21 October 2021 15: 34
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Yesterday's article about Pskov, for example, killed me completely. Only Samsonov's nonsense about superethnos can be worse

          hi Mikhail, Nikolay. IMHO This article is much worse than much that I have read.
          This torture of the reader with an exorbitant unsystematized amount of information.
          Reading itself is like torture
          A completely irrelevant topic for the "history" section - some kind of "social experiment"
          1. 0
            21 October 2021 16: 43
            A completely irrelevant topic for the "history" section - some kind of "social experiment"

            Philadelphia, Andrey Borisovich? drinks The destroyer did not take off, but became chaotic and lurid? laughing
            1. Fat
              0
              21 October 2021 17: 21
              Nikolay. The Philadelphia experiment is cool. Yes A very tricky secret. Yes
              And this one - I directly and do not know how to say, in general, something connected with "Bedlam", as a shelter for the mentally ill, when sick people try to yell something from their corner, and this happens in the brains (text) of one person request
              And yes without it drinks there is no way, and the larger the dose, the clearer it is wassat
      2. +4
        21 October 2021 14: 35
        Hi Nikolay, you need to see the "bright" side in everything. bully
    2. +6
      21 October 2021 13: 16
      So, torture has always been, is and will be. At the state level, I mean, regardless of whether the state recognizes torture or not. State security is too serious a question to be neglected in its provision with proven and proven methods for some incomprehensible humanistic considerations.
      Countries that have legalized torture are simply more honest with the world community and their citizens.

      What kind of state security do people in the structure of the Federal Penitentiary Service think about? Where is this systemic phenomenon applied to all categories of prisoners?
      And of course the top arguments.
      So, torture has always been, is and will be.

      So, pedophilia (cannibalism, bribery, insert what you need) has always been and will be
      Countries that have legalized torture are simply more honest in front of the world community and their citizens

      Countries that have legalized pedophilia (cannibalism, bribery, insert the right one) are simply more honest in front of the world community and their citizens
      1. +2
        21 October 2021 13: 41
        Pedophilia, cannibalism, bribery are things of a different order and it is not correct to put them on a par with torture.
        The fact that Mikhail allows torture as a means of obtaining some information for the sake of public interests is rather an extreme measure. A person is imprisoned - is it not torture?
        About the article, or good or nothing!
        1. +3
          21 October 2021 13: 50
          Quote: ee2100

          0
          Pedophilia, cannibalism, bribery are things of a different order and it is not right to put them on a par with torture

          That is, for you personally, being raped by a mop is not such a big problem.
          Btsdete to console yourself with the thought that it can be worse
          1. 0
            21 October 2021 14: 26
            That is, for you personally, being raped by a mop is not such a big problem.

            Do you judge by yourself?
            1. 0
              21 October 2021 14: 40
              Hi Kostya!
              He turned on the fool! Torture is one thing, but rape with a handle is a mockery.
              1. 0
                21 October 2021 14: 59
                Hi Sasha! smile
                He turned on the fool!

                In my opinion, he does not turn it off, he simply cannot. laughing
          2. +4
            21 October 2021 14: 38
            Mikhail has many letters, but he clearly distinguished the difference between torture and bullying. Everyone is against torture!
            It's just that Mikhail and I, including, do not take a bashful look away from this phenomenon. Personally, I am totally against any legal or regulation that would allow torture.
            All this should be on the conscience of those passing by. And the person conducting the torture should know that he can be punished for it.
        2. 0
          21 October 2021 15: 26
          Quote: ee2100
          Pedophilia, cannibalism, bribery are things of a different order and it is not correct to put them on a par with torture.

          You have a problem with understanding sarcasm.
      2. +4
        21 October 2021 14: 01
        And there’s nothing to argue about. smile
        FSinovtsev - to imprison for torture, unambiguously and without options.
        It is impossible to legalize any abomination, despite the fact that it is impossible to defeat it.
        But I spoke about torture according to the definition I gave at the beginning of the commentary. The torture is carried out in order to obtain information or to force one to take any action. In reality, without methods of forced influence, the work of law enforcement agencies or state security agencies is impossible, well, or, in any case, significantly, I emphasize - significantly - becomes more complicated.
        And if on the internal front, the refusal of torture and the difficulties that it generates, in general, our personal difficulties that you can accept and continue to play nobility, then on the external front, such a refusal will put you in a deliberately losing position in front of your political colleagues. process, and this is already irresponsibility to its own people.
        I am not saying that torture is good and right. This is bad and disgusting. But you can't do without them.
        I do not think that they should be legalized de jure. Enough and de facto, as it is now. But if we talk about legalization, then in this I do not see such horror, if you do it wisely.
        For example, to strictly regulate their use, indicating an exhaustive list of organizations that can do this, an exhaustive list of places where torture can be carried out and an exhaustive list of issues for the resolution of which torture can be used.
        Well, forget the word "torture" itself. The connotation is too negative for this word. "Forceful Impact Techniques" looks much more attractive. What do you think of the name: "Research Institute of Forced Human Impact Methods under the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation", for example? smile Research Institute MFVCH at the RF IC. Sounds quite civilized.
        If, at the same time, it is effective to combat torture in all other places where it should not be, then this is a completely pragmatic and civilized approach. Torture is terrible not because it is, but because it can manifest itself anywhere.
        1. +2
          21 October 2021 14: 12
          The torture is carried out in order to obtain information or to force one to take any action.

          For example, a confession of crimes that he did not commit is "knocked out" of a detainee.
          In reality, without methods of forced influence, the work of law enforcement agencies or state security agencies is impossible, well, or, in any case, significantly, I emphasize - significantly - becomes more complicated.

          Whether it is the case when knocking out a confession under torture is legalized or elevated to a de facto norm. The innocent is in prison, the guilty is free, but the investigator has a "stick" in the account. Very "effective" (no) law enforcement work is coming out.
          For example, to strictly regulate their use, indicating an exhaustive list of organizations that can do this, an exhaustive list of places where torture can be carried out and an exhaustive list of issues for the resolution of which torture can be used.

          In the medieval Inquisition, the process of using torture was strictly regulated. It is true that people during such interrogations "for some reason" regularly admitted their "guilt" in droughts, epidemics, urgans and earthquakes (which were "induced with the help of black magic"), and then went to the fire.
          1. +3
            21 October 2021 14: 20
            Can you read? Read my comment carefully to the end. It is written there:
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            If, at the same time, it is effective to combat torture in all other places where it should not be, then this is a completely pragmatic and civilized approach. Torture is terrible not because it is, but because it can manifest itself anywhere.

            For you personally, as well as for me, it is important not to be tortured in some neighborhood by a half-literate drunk duty officer. And it is precisely with such tortures that I call upon to fight mercilessly.
            1. +2
              21 October 2021 14: 29
              Can you read? Read my comment carefully to the end. It is written there:
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              If, at the same time, it is effective to combat torture in all other places where it should not be, then this is a completely pragmatic and civilized approach. Torture is terrible not because it is, but because it can manifest itself anywhere.

              You stretch the Overton window with charming spontaneity
              1. +2
                21 October 2021 15: 04
                The person, apparently skimmed through my text, but did not understand its essence. I drew his attention to an essential, from my point of view, fragment, after comprehending which, the opponent would not write his commentary.
          2. +1
            21 October 2021 17: 42
            "they admitted their" guilt "in the drought" just like that "for some reason" they admitted in 1937. It's just that at all times, they were "able" to convince
        2. +2
          21 October 2021 14: 15
          The torture is carried out in order to obtain information or to force one to take any action.

          Everything according to your precepts

          Get information and coerce. At the stage of investigation.
          As a result, the tortured person swallows the anchor to jump off - the only way to escape
          As for the fight against an external enemy, torture is not needed for one simple reason - you will always sit down anyway. No options.
          https://www.rbc.ru/society/02/08/2018/5b62d1cc9a7947410d61e64b
          https://www.interfax.ru/russia/762930
          https://www.bfm.ru/news/480937
          Dust from China became proof of high treason of MAI associate professor
          1. 0
            21 October 2021 15: 00
            I didn’t watch the video - it’s too long and I’m unlikely to learn anything new from it.
            You are now talking about torture as part of the arbitrariness of some employees. Arbitrariness is disgusting and this, of course, must be fought and fought hard, stubbornly and consistently. For this, there are certain mechanisms in the Russian Federation, which may not be effective enough yet, but they are constantly being improved. In short, the struggle is being waged, and rightly so. And I in no way call for the introduction of torture as an instrument of inquiry at the level of departments and regional departments of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. I do not urge them to legalize and implement anywhere. I am simply stating the fact that at a certain, sufficiently high level, they are legalized de facto, and this is correct. It is important that from this level they do not descend to the ground, do not come into our everyday life, and this must be monitored strictly and rigidly.
            As for the references to the treason case, then, with all due respect, you, Denis, in this case are trying to draw conclusions based on publications in the press, which, in turn, are made on the basis of statements by the defendant's lawyers.
            To make a qualified conclusion, you need, at least, to study the materials of the criminal case. Most likely, by doing this, you will be convinced that everything is not at all as straightforward and simple as the lawyers say.
            I repeat once again: in general, I consider torture to be an abomination that must be fought. Torture for the purpose of obtaining a confession is an unambiguous abomination, without reservations. But, since torture (methods of forced influence) is one of the important tools for ensuring state security, is objective, and there is no substitute for it and is not expected, then turning a blind eye to this is stupidity and pretense, as in the scene I described in the bathhouse. Perhaps (!), This fact should be recognized and adequately, soberly and pragmatically reflected in the legislation. I fully admit that strict regulation of the use of forced action methods can have a positive effect, including on the fight against the arbitrary use of such methods, which I fully support.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. 0
                21 October 2021 15: 49
                Denis, speaking about the legalization of torture, I specifically mentioned that I do not consider this step necessary. Exclusively because torture absolutely does not need it - they are already carried out as necessary against anyone. If they deem it necessary, they will be absolutely unpunished, within the framework of this "de facto" they will torture both you and me, and we will not be able to do anything about it. That's it. It has been and will always be so, throughout the history of mankind, nothing can be done about it. Only the methods themselves change, the concepts of their application remain the same.
                The only question is how to draw the line between "arbitrariness" and "de facto legalized" torture. It is difficult, and there is probably no clear line here now. But the regulation of this process will be able to draw this line. And where to conduct it and whether it is necessary at all ... It may be easier and more correct to leave everything as it is.
                1. +4
                  21 October 2021 17: 11
                  I'm confused
                  Or
                  It may be easier and more correct to leave everything as it is.

                  Or still
                  FSinovtsev - to imprison for torture, unambiguously and without options.

                  And then with them and the police and faces, all whose involvement in torture is proven.
                  If they deem it necessary, they will be absolutely unpunished, within the framework of this "de facto" they will torture both you and me, and we will not be able to do anything about it.

                  We can reduce the likelihood of this happening.
                  One great writer said:
                  Violence yesterday, habit today, law tomorrow

                  It is with this "today" that we must fight.
                  1. 0
                    21 October 2021 18: 04
                    Where politics begins, the law is powerless. These are the eternal and unshakable realities of life on planet Earth at any time and now and in the future. Politics is a separate supra-world in which there is only one consideration - the consideration of expediency.
                    Perhaps political motives can serve as the line beyond which torture can be recognized as legal. Again, perhaps. What is politics and where does it end, and other branches of human life begin: business, art, etc. too hard to say.
                    The commander of the reconnaissance group can torture people during a raid on the territory of a potential enemy. And you need to. If he does not do this, he is out of place. It is possible and necessary to torture the leader of a terrorist cell or a caught illegal spy if it is not possible to get them to talk in any other way, but it must be done quickly.
                    And, the most interesting thing, Denis, is that this is already done. It has always been done. And it will always be done. Everywhere. Regardless of how it is regulated and whether it is regulated at all. We just don't know about it, or rather, we even know, but ... we forget. And we don't like it when we are reminded of it. The feeling of security is lost, even if it is false.
                    But investigators, operatives, district police officers, inspectors of the Federal Penitentiary Service, educators in orphanages, doctors in psychiatric hospitals should not torture people. And for this they need to be severely and inevitably punished.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. +3
                      21 October 2021 21: 00
                      DO YOU really think that we have a civilian need to expand the powers of the FSB to fight spies, terrorists, extremists, including torture? That this is not the case when the medicine is worse than the disease?
                      1. -1
                        21 October 2021 21: 30
                        I didn't talk about empowerment. Generally. I was talking about possible the need to regulate what already exists and what everyone knows about.
                        If I were sure that torture can be dispensed with quite, I would be the first to vote for their complete abolition and severe punishment for their application.
                        But you can't do without them at all.
                        It's like prohibiting development in the field of cloning or artificial intelligence. All the same, everyone will do this, only secretly. And the one who really follows this prohibition will eventually lose.
                        But what is better - to continue, like everyone else, to pretend to be a virgin after the eleventh abortion, or to clearly and distinctly say: "Yes, we use torture. And we will use them - in such, such and such situations and in such and such For this we have specially trained people on state salaries. " - I dont know.
                      2. +3
                        21 October 2021 22: 15
                        I didn't talk about empowerment.

                        This is precisely the empowerment. Here is your text
                        But if we talk about legalization, then in this I do not see such horror, if you do it wisely.
                        For example, to strictly regulate their use, indicating an exhaustive list of organizations that can do this, an exhaustive list of places where torture can be carried out and an exhaustive list of issues for the resolution of which torture can be used.

                        Some can.
                        I talked about the possible need to regulate what already exists and what everyone knows about.
                        If I were sure that torture can be completely dispensed with, I would be the first to vote for their complete abolition and severe punishment for their use.
                        But you can't do without them at all.

                        You see, there is not a single example that justifies torture or shows its expediency. If a spetsnaz commander uses torture during an inquiry, then he is simply incompetent. If I was a good officer, I would do analysis, choose the right reconnaissance route, and come closer to the enemy. Give such indulgences, they will investigate less and less and torture more and more. It's also safer than going into the heat. Anything you gain instantly will be lost in the long run. And the enemy, having caught any of our scouts, will be revealingly cut him into belts and will be morally absolutely right.

                        RBC and Jehovah's Witnesses are officially extremist organizations. Do we torture these scoundrels?

                        But what's better

                        Better - zero tolerance for torture. They will torture you further, but if you get caught, then you will sit down to the fullest. And society should have mechanisms to bring this bio-waste to clean water. This is the most correct one.
                      3. 0
                        21 October 2021 22: 54
                        In this case, you are acting from the position of an idealist.
                        Are nuclear weapons bad? Badly. Let's ban it and destroy everything that is? Let's. Who will benefit from this? The one who will keep such a weapon, despite the agreements, for himself.
                        And I repeat once again, I don’t remember yet again. I am not a supporter of the legalization of torture. I'm not sure if it is necessary. I just don't see anything terrible in this.
                        And yet - I know for sure that the methods of forced influence on a person are one of the integral tools of state administration since ancient times. And these times have not changed so much and in the foreseeable future they are unlikely to change in such a way that it would be possible to abandon these instruments unilaterally.
                        So, alas, they tortured, they are torturing and they will continue to torture. And to fight against this, aiming at a complete refusal of torture, is pointless, which means it is not necessary. But to fight them in separate places where they have no place, just as we fought with the Novochronolozhites here - and not without success! smile - it is possible and necessary.
                        This is the position of a realist.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        there is not a single example that justifies torture or demonstrates its appropriateness

                        There are such examples, I assure you. But we'd better not know about them. I, in any case, know one when, thanks to the timely applied methods of forced influence, the identity and whereabouts of one villain were established and, thereby, human lives were saved.
                        And, by the way, it just occurred to me now. It is quite possible that torture in our country is a completely regulated method of interrogation in certain areas. It's just that the documents regulating it are classified, as, in fact, the methods and everything else related to this. We just don't know anything about it
                        If this is so, then I have now begun to live a little more calmly - at least there is some order in this matter. I hope this is the case. hi
                    3. 0
                      21 October 2021 23: 04
                      The legalized has a habit of expanding within the scope of its application. They will tighten cases under the articles under which torture was allowed. Therefore, torture should not be allowed, formally it should be prohibited, even if there are real cases of use.
                      Torture was not officially approved, even if it was used.
                      The ruling Senate, knowing the importance of this abuse and to what extent it is contrary to the very first foundations of justice and oppressively with all civil rights, will not, at this time, make the most rigorous confirmation everywhere, throughout the empire, so that nowhere, under any guise, either in the highest or in lower governments and courts, no one dared to do, admit, or execute any torture, on pain of inevitable and severe punishment, so that the public places, by which the law grants the decision of criminal cases, as the basis of their judgments and sentences, put the personal conscience of the accused before the court, so that during the investigation they were not subject to any biased interrogation and that, finally, the very name of torture, shame and reproach to humanity, inflicted on it was forever blotted out from the memory of humanity

                      and this is not an exception, but rather a rule - torture is officially prohibited. This in itself raises the bar for their use.
          2. +1
            21 October 2021 15: 33
            Yes, and one more slippery moment.
            The main method of influencing the participants in the criminal process is the method of persuasion, with which I fully and completely agree. Unfortunately, it is not always possible to draw a clear line between persuasion and torture.
            For example, a demonstration of material evidence, expert opinions or photographs from the scene to a suspect, an explanation of some of the nuances of prison life, a confrontation with the victim, his relatives, or the attitude of other participants in the process towards him in the style of “I'll let you go now, and they are waiting for you there ", yes, a lot of things can be thought of" on the verge "of causing, in any case," moral suffering. "
            Hours of interrogation with a sequential demonstration of, for example, fake invoices or payment orders, contracts and other investigative material - also fits into the concept of torture.
            In short, there is also ambiguity on this side. smile
            1. -1
              21 October 2021 20: 48
              False evidence is not torture.
              This is article 302. Any opera knows.
              1. 0
                21 October 2021 21: 39
                Quote: Denis812
                Show false evidence

                And why did you write this?
                1. -1
                  21 October 2021 21: 51
                  Then, that this is clearly defined by Russian criminal law. This is NOT torture.
                  So your words about "many hours of interrogation" or "showing false evidence" are not about torture.
                  This is very clearly established by the criminal code of the Russian Federation.
                  1. 0
                    21 October 2021 22: 16
                    Torture is any act by which severe pain or suffering, physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person ...
                    Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment

                    Quote: Trilobite Master
                    it is not always possible to draw a clear line between persuasion and torture.

                    Quote: Trilobite Master
                    a lot of things you can think of "on the verge" of causing, in any case, "moral suffering"

                    If you show not "fake" material evidence, but real, proving the guilt of the accused, he will suffer. Morally. And then, without stopping to suffer, he will confess. Shall we consider this as torture?
                    You do not quite understand what it was about. Rather, they did not understand at all.
                    1. 0
                      21 October 2021 22: 19
                      And it would be even more accurate to say that the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation has already answered this question of yours in the form of Article 302 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. You can read the comments to the article, which will tell you that "A threat addressed to a person can be expressed in a mental effect on a person from whom the perpetrator is seeking to obtain the information he needs."
                      This is exactly what you are describing.
                      So here the Russian state has already thought of everything for you.
                      No need to produce entities, please.

                      Torture separately - 302 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation separately.
                      1. 0
                        21 October 2021 22: 59
                        You still didn't understand anything.
                        Nevermind.
                      2. 0
                        21 October 2021 23: 45
                        Norm is so.
                        I explained to you that your wishes have already been taken into account by the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
                        And now you cringe at the fact that someone did not understand you?
        3. -2
          21 October 2021 14: 54
          And there is nothing to argue about. smile
          FSinovtsev - to imprison for torture, unambiguously and without options.

          Yes, how to say, but there is something. If in the cases of the CIA and Abu Grave prisons, these are well-known facts, replicated in the media, the Americans either remain silent or agree, then the statement that torture in the FSIN institutions is legalized, they are "exchanged through communication channels" - upwards of idiocy. Apart from the words: "cases are known," the author did not give anything. Where is the proof. Article as a whole Top and Bottom of Idiocy.
        4. 0
          21 October 2021 14: 55
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          In reality, without methods of forced influence, the work of law enforcement agencies or state security agencies is impossible, well, or, in any case, significantly, I emphasize - significantly - becomes more complicated.

          If you can't reach the heart, hit the liver! laughing
        5. +1
          21 October 2021 15: 29
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          I am not saying that torture is good and right. This is bad and disgusting. But you can't do without them.

          Exactly. No way. You checked on yourself.
        6. +4
          21 October 2021 16: 29
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          The torture is carried out in order to obtain information or to force one to take any action. In reality, without methods of forced influence, the work of law enforcement agencies or state security agencies is impossible.

          Vvm, as a great humanist, I can advise you to hang for half an hour "like a swallow" in the outfit of an "elephant" in the office of the opera ... spying for the United States, Mongolia and Cape Verde
          1. -2
            21 October 2021 16: 59
            Are you a masochist?
            You know what answer you will get to your opus. I don’t understand why you need it, but if you need it, if you please.
            Your exercises in wit only impress me with their irrelevance and absurdity. You are in vain looking for connoisseurs of your sparkling humor here - such exist only in your fantasies, however, like admirers of all your other talents. I will not advise you anything - I don’t like to give bad advice, but I’m sorry for good ones, so for this I say goodbye. hi
            1. +3
              21 October 2021 17: 50
              I'm just a reasonable person who understands what torture is. This is a process that turns both parties involved in this action into beasts. One side is from pain, the second is because a normal person cannot stand for half an hour to just be present for such actions, and not to be tortured affairs master. In order to practice these things, as well as to stand up for them, you need to have a deviant psyche.
              Alternatively, for the gifted, fantasizing about the usefulness of torture in white shoes and only on big holidays it is not out of place to think that often certain dreams come true and they may well end up in the role of victims of such practices. Their problem is that for some reason they are sure that this will never will affect them personally or their loved ones, but this is far from the case.
      3. 0
        21 October 2021 17: 19
        "countries that legalized pedophilia (capitalism, bribery) formally do not exist, but in fact
  17. -3
    21 October 2021 14: 07
    The difference between theory and practice is environment and nuance. Taking this into account, torture as such will remain in human history for a very long time. One can study the psychological portrait of the "interrogated" well and, on the basis of this, place him in the most uncomfortable environment for him. So that this is not regarded as "specially" - you can create a whole network of small institutions corresponding to different conditions. That is, from a legal point of view, you can cut it all up so that the mosquito does not undermine the nose, alas. The penitentiary system itself is a closed system with its own admission rules, which automatically implies both "Overlawfulness", "non-regulation" and the possibility of throwing off, if something happens, on the performer - who will either be forced or will act at his own peril and risk in the interests of his career ...
    There are many loopholes, legislatively all of them cannot be nailed because this expands the legislation and so on. expands the gray areas emanating from its imperfections.

    If we abstract from the issues of spherical Law in a vacuum, I objectively see the Problem, which in general has nothing to do with "human rights". The essence of the problem is that we have a "club of those who recognize Western values" here, we are all so important, we say that torture and terrorism are bad, and so on. But outside our club there are many bearded guys who THINK ANYWHERE, they have a different club there, with rears and an Iron Maiden, they deliver them to cut off people's heads on camera, make a bloody eagle and so on and so forth. Well, acc. they do it wherever their blood-sticky hands can reach. In their "intellectual-aesthetic" environment, this is not shameful, in the ethnos in contact with this environment, let's say, it is a sadly established practice. And then we come and impose on them some "global rules", which somewhere out there, sometime there, were invented by people in powdered wigs, which they personally do not consider to be people. And much of this point of view will share their cultural, ethnic and religious substratum, adjoining such comrades. Let's say this substratum will not be delighted with torture, etc., but some distant men in powdered wigs are not authorities and not a decree either. For example, in such an environment they catch a particularly presumptuous bearded man - well, somewhat more decent bearded men. They want to find out from him - where are the others, "indecent". And he is like a bad boy - he will not tell them anything. And what do they start to do with it? That's right - they torture him. Because for them he is a dude who willingly tortures and cuts heads, and there is nothing to stand on ceremony with him. And for their ethno-cultural substrate, their actions are justified, because this substrate sees that these people STAND BETWEEN this substrate and especially burrowing bearded men. But, as we understand, distant people in powdered wigs will not see this well in any way. And from their point of view, there is no difference between Bearded A and Bearded B - both of them are a mad sabak, their son snapped!
    But this is from the outside. And now let's say one of these bearded men naughty something in the world of people in powdered wigs. And they know that bearded men rarely go one by one, it’s more fun for them together :-)
    Corresponding with their instruments of democracy and human rights, they are trying to find out from him - what will happen? Where are his friends, and so on. And he is silent) Because in his coordinate system he is a holy authoritative martyr. Here, at this moment - ask yourself a question, do you really believe that a psycho can be convinced that he is not Napoleon? What can you appeal to the conscience of a maniac-cannibal? Well, or the fact that people in powdered wigs CAN CONVINCE such a dude that they bring light, order and peace - while he sees in them just some kind of overseas clowns who have "little guts" and who generally don't catch up with how they work peace ?

    Sorry, of course, I had to sign a little! As long as there are different environments, different cultures, different beliefs in the world, this problem will exist in one form or another. The problem of GETTING information from people who wanted to spit on ALL your rules, which would happily bury you and your children - just like that, out of principle. You will not be able to influence them in any way - because YOUR VALUES ARE NOT OVER THEM. They, in their coordinate system, either have already cut down the house-tree-son before going and lawlessness, or they do not need it at all - they are waiting for paradise booths and 50 virgins. You will not scare a person who has been pinching in the mountains for years - a camera with a sink, a toilet bowl and three meals a day. And you won't scare him with the death penalty either - because he was raised in an environment where it is honorable to give mooring lines like that (and he himself, in general, does not see a more accurate picture of his life).

    So the question is - what to do with such a person? How to suppress the activities of him and his associates?
    And the answer here will be simple - no vanilla methods. So torture was and will be, and so on. there will be executioners, the master of the back. No matter how much we procrastinate here for humanity and remember Mahatma Gandhi.
  18. 0
    21 October 2021 14: 10
    I'll try myself as a "devil's advocate". I don't care how many minuses they throw at me and what you will think about me later.
    It is not weapons that are fighting, people are howling.
    And ideological pumping is one of the main components of the war.
    A soldier who sees the brutal treatment of his comrades (and even more so with civilian compatriots) fights more angrily and will definitely not surrender, he will leave the last grenade for himself and those who will take him prisoner.
    The drawings of this torture are ready-made ideological weapons that allow you to mobilize new supporters.
    For those who have "only sawdust in their heads" is good "They torture our brothers !!!! Let's destroy them and their families !!!"
    For those who are smarter, who have gray matter in their heads, who can think, they are given to read, on the one hand, documents prohibiting torture at the international level, and on the other, official government documents permitting torture. "They are deceiving us! Look, on the one hand, torture is prohibited, but on the other hand. This is not an excesses of the performer, this is state policy !!! These two-faced dogs do not consider us human, we will destroy them !!!"
    Grounds for torture - yes, this is bad, but by using torture we can prevent a terrorist attack and save many lives of our fellow citizens.
    But on the other hand, torture provides a moral basis for terror, for recruiting new supporters. By winning the battle, we are losing the war.
  19. 0
    21 October 2021 15: 12
    relentless lack of sleep; chaining detainees to posts and other structures in torturous positions; beatings; exposure to extreme temperatures, incessant harsh lights and roaring music; and threats to family members
    Beatings are prohibited - the rest is plus or minus truth
  20. +3
    21 October 2021 15: 39
    Colleagues, good afternoon. I am not delighted with the material: it is very "specific".
    I hope the Lord in Hell keeps the "authors" of torture? Ideally, that they in this world try these "charms" on themselves
  21. 0
    21 October 2021 18: 32
    Under the USSR there was such a book "The CIA in Latin America", nothing has changed, the torture is the same.
  22. +1
    21 October 2021 20: 29
    I observed on myself and on others the methods of extracting the necessary information by the workers of some structures. Both the guilty and the innocent. All this is disgusting. This breeds sadists.
    Well, if you grabbed the language during the hostilities. Then there is already in general. Those who have done this usually prefer not to talk about it.
  23. -1
    21 October 2021 20: 58
    In the course of gaining life experience, I had to deal, so to speak, with water procedures and things such as uncomfortable postures and a closed gas mask. I'm not even talking about the elementary physical impact.
    This is in the regular police department in the Russian Federation where he "had the honor" to serve for some time.
    About a picture with a small camera - I definitely saw this in one of our pre-trial detention centers. A simple concrete pencil case, where, as I understood earlier, there was just a pipe. That is, this is a strobe for a pipe, in fact. The pipe was removed and adapted for the temporary placement of prisoners who arrived in the pre-trial detention center, but did not show proper understanding during registration. It was impossible to stand in full growth there, to sit too - the dimensions were not the same. Plus, it's cold and damp.
    Perhaps that is why, too, I could not stay in our valiant organs.
    There were quite a few such "strange" moments.

    Now I traveled around Europe, looked at the torture rooms, which are in almost every castle. Well, what can I say - the cops' Russian thought lagged behind the medieval one. There was a lot to strive for. Fortunately, they didn't. Hope.
  24. 0
    24 October 2021 12: 32
    To call a man a beast is to offend a beast, to call a beast a man is, again, to offend a beast. If anything, by the beast I mean a predatory animal.
  25. 0
    30 November 2021 14: 12
    In Russia, torture is used not only by the FSIN (the Russian organization closest to the Gestapo), but also by many others:
    1. riot police (remember how the detainees were treated during the "bulk" protests.)
    2. Police
    3. Of course the FSB, but it is professionally hiding
    4. Investigative Committee members by someone else's hands, in particular the pre-trial detention center.
    The state encourages this, because every citizen knows that under certain conditions he can end up in torture and 99% of people are really afraid of this and do not speak out against the state, although they want to. Sometimes the state demonstratively punishes the lawless people selectively when there is a strong exposure. Window dressing.