"Not a single bulletproof vest will protect against it": the United States called the timing of the selection of a promising line of NGSW weapons to replace the M4 and M16

In the United States, work continues to create a promising line of small arms weapons for the army and other law enforcement agencies. The main task is to replace the existing models, including the M4 automatic carbine and the M16 assault rifle. Recall that both of these variants of American small arms have a 5,56 mm caliber. It is also planned that the new development will allow the US Army to replace the M249 machine gun in its two calibers - 5,56 and 7,62 mm.

Promising small arms received a preliminary name for the program being implemented - NGSW (Next Generation Squad Weapon).

American General Anthony Potts, reporting to the meeting of the US Army Association, called the timing of the final selection of weapons from the NGSW line. According to him, the choice of an assault rifle and an automatic carbine will be carried out by the summer of 2022.

At the moment, it is known that these samples of promising weapons are designed for a 6,8 mm caliber. It is planned that this particular caliber will become the main one for the US Army due to "a number of its superior parameters, including parameters of long-range firing accuracy."

Major General Anthony Potts:

This caliber has a number of better characteristics, including bullet accuracy, lethality and stability in flight, compared to 5,56 mm ammunition.

According to General Potts, when using a 6,8-mm cartridge, the "guaranteed lethality" indicator increases from 300 to 600 m - in terms of range.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff of the United States notes that "none of the body armor will protect against a bullet from NGSW weapons." It is also noted that the latest target designation system is being implemented in promising small arms.

It is known that one of three companies will be able to start mass production of promising weapons for the US security forces: Sig Sauer, General Dynamics or Textron Systems. Cooperation is also possible.

So, General Dynamics offers the Pentagon a version of a new generation of automatic small arms in the bullpup layout. It is indicated on its compactness, which "will not harm" the mortality rates. Textron Systems comes out with a proposal to create a promising weapon with caseless cartridges for the American army.

In the first stage, each manufacturer must supply 53 rifles and 43 automatic carbines for testing. Also, the kit should go to 850 thousand cartridges. After all the tests, the final choice will be made in favor of one or another option proposed by the developers.

According to budget documents, after selection, the winning company will receive an eight-year contract for the production of 120 rifles, carbines and machine guns. The servicemen of special forces will be the first to receive the latest small arms. In infantry units, the operation of the M4 and M16 will continue until eventually a larger contract for the production and delivery of NGSW is implemented.

Comments

[Basarev]

And we have, damn it, still grandfather's Kalash. And an aggressive reluctance to change. Will we find ourselves in the situation of the natives - with a bow against a machine gun?

[Thrifty]

Basarev, after all, of those who came under fire from the "Kalashnikov," no one complained about the weak destructive power - they lay silent for themselves ... forever ...

[Baron pardus]

Those in which something flew in from a bow, or a crossbow, too, somehow do not complain much. Another thing is that the AK74M versus the new 6.8 will be about the same as coming out with a small caliber 5.6 versus the AK74M. The ballistics of the new 6.8 ammunition surpasses the 7.62x51 NATO ballistics, so if this ammunition is adopted, then both the 5.56 NATO and 5.45 and 7.62x39 will become hopelessly obsolete overnight, the lot of civilian shooters.

[Prisoner]

There is no need to rush to make predictions. Time will show. The stump is clear that advertising is the engine of trade and amerovskie military ranks and their, how to put it mildly, business partners understand this very well. Hence similar statements.

[Baron pardus]

It's not about advertising, the ballistics of the 6.8 cartridge has long been no secret to anyone. These figures exceed 7.62x51 NATO and correspond to the ballistics of 270 WSM (270 Winchester short magnum). You can see and compare. Moreover, the ammunition can be used in any weapon of 7.62x51 NATO caliber, by simply replacing the barrel, EMNIP.
Most likely, this means REFUSAL from automatic fire, and a return to the concept of a self-loading rifle (Battle Rifle), in the style of FAL / G3 / M14 / G43 / SVT. As shown by the actions in Afghanistan and Iraq 5.56 NATO simply does not have either the penetrating ability or the range required in modern conditions. The army tested both 6.8 SOC, 6.5 Grendel, and 300 Blackout, and then realized that any intermediate cartridge would be a compromise and would not have the required performance. The 6.5 Creedmore cartridge is quite popular in the USA. It is 7.62x51 narrowed to 6.5mm. New ammo is about the same. For example, the 6.8TVSM can be used in the M240 by simply replacing the barrel. (cheap and cheerful). Sig Sauer cartridge 6.8 Kompani does roughly the same. The company even released a civilian version of the same cartridge. 277 Fury. He is 6.8x51. Without further ado, they took the 7.62x51 NATO cartridge and narrowed the cartridge case to a composite one. It's actually very smart - want to buy new weapons - great. If you don’t want to spend money, you don’t have to, just buy the barrels, and the bolts and magazines / machine gun flyers, you can use the old ones.
The difference in ballistics between the New 6.8 cartridges and the old 5.56 / 5.45 is roughly the difference between the small 5.6 and 5.56 NATO cartridges.This is roughly the difference between 7.62x39 and 7.62x51. In short, it will be like going out with SKS against FAL or M14. If you're lucky, you might even hit someone if they let you in.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.277_FURY

[Genry]

Quote: Baron Pardus

the indicators exceed 7.62x51 NATO and correspond to the ballistics of 270 WSM (270 Winchester short magnum).

You've gotten a completely different cartridge!
The NATO military chose the 6,8 × 43 mm Remington SPC.
Its energy is comparable to 7,62x39, but thanks to better aerodynamics, it is better preserved at long distances.

[Baron pardus]

The 6.8 NGSW (6.8x51) cartridge is NOT the 6.8 SPC (6.8x43) cartridge. Likewise, the 7.62x54 cartridge is NOT the 7.62x39 cartridge. From the word at all. Learn materiel.

[Genry]

Quote: Baron Pardus

The 6.8 NGSW (6.8x51) cartridge is NOT the 6.8 SPC (6.8x43) cartridge.

Link to the studio !!

[Baron pardus]

https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/sig-sauer-completes-final-delivery-of-next-generation-squad-weapon-system-to-us-army

https://soldiersystems.net/2021/01/27/sig-ammunition-produced-rounds-of-6-8x51mm/

It clearly says 6.8x51.

Then we go and see what 6.8 SPC is. We open our eyes, maybe we wash them, maybe we put on glasses and see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8mm_Remington_SPC где явно написано 6.8х43. Вспоминаем математику за 1й класс и до нас доходит что 51 это больше чем 43, и что патрон 6.8х51 будет мощнее чем 6.8х43
Then we search for 277 Fury
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.277_FURY
And, having washed the eyes, and putting on glasses, we see that this is a CIVIL version of the army cartridge 6.8 NGSW and that its metric designation is 6.8x51. After seeing that this cartridge is loaded at 80000psi, we compare it with the 6.8 SPC loaded at 55000 PSI (both according to SAAMI specifications) and it finally dawns on us that these are two different cartridges.
Then we take a pie on the shelf. There are two, take the middle one, wipe the dust and put it in place.

[ja-ja-vw]

Quote: Baron Pardus

We recall the mathematics for the 1st grade and it comes to us that 51 is more than 43, and that the 6.8x51 cartridge will be more powerful than 6.8x43

correction: physics.
Mathematics does not operate with powers.
And it is better, of course, energy (muzzle there or kinetic at the point where the target is inserted), not power. Because it is in ft lbf or J.
And its power is 1 W (1 J / s)
and so amusing (+)
But there is not only the volume of the projectile and midsection of the bullet?
Plus the 227Sig Fury hybrid liner, which achieves a maximum firing pressure of 80 psi 000 MPa

[Baron pardus]

If you remember the lessons of the Russian language for the FIRST grade, and CAREFULLY read before answering me (I understand that the Chukchi are not a reader, but a writer, but still), you will see that SIG 277 FURY (6.8x51) is a civilian version of the army Sigov 6.8 NGSW. In the links, everything is written in black and white. Take 3 minutes and read before arguing.

[ja-ja-vw]

I didn't argue at all. Can't you stop in the heat?
Don't be so nervous

[Baron pardus]

I'm not nervous. Sorry if you got excited. I am at work at the same time, and my dad after the hip replacement operation, I have already called me 3 times at work and I am chatting with you and other respected (or not so) comrades. Unfortunately, I am not Caesar and I cannot do 5 things at the same time.

[Genry]

Quote: Baron Pardus

It clearly says 6.8x51.

If you had normal perception in your head, then you would understand that these articles are nothing more than advertising publications to promote the SS of its own version of NGSW, and so far we are talking only about a light machine gun and a self-loading rifle (Marksman?).
And what kind of weapon will an ordinary soldier have ???

New weapons will be created by companies:
- General Dynamics-OTS,
- AAI Corporation Textron Systems,
- Sig Sauer.

Whose option the military will choose after the competition, which will begin in 2022, "science is not yet in the know."
How long will the competition last and how will its conditions change ...

Quote: Baron Pardus

Then we search for 277 Fury

Searching ... Not too long ago, you argued that:

Quote: Baron Pardus

These figures exceed 7.62x51 NATO and correspond to the ballistics of 270 WSM (270 Winchester short magnum).

And here the cartridge 277 is not the same and the characteristics are weaker. Maybe you should rinse your eyes?
And with numbers you have problems like a schoolboy or an old man (have you become really bad at seeing?).

Quote: Baron Pardus

Then we take a pie on the shelf. There are two, take the middle one, wipe the dust and put it in place.

You are tЕparadise - you are not an old man ...
And the pies - are you seeing double in your eyes or your consciousness has completely shifted (severe hallucinogens ??).
And some kind of British masochism to keep dried / inedible cakes, muffins .... cakes.

[Baron pardus]

Don't argue with me.
https://soldiersystems.net/2021/01/27/sig-ammunition-produced-rounds-of-6-8x51mm/
We read, it says in black and white: "The Army gave industry a 6.8mm projectile and a performance specification, but left it up to them on how to best deliver that projectile within the required performance parameters.

Turns out, that performance they are seeking is similar to 270 Win Short Mag. The velocities required to achieve the desired effects for that 6.8mm projectile on target call for extremely high chamber pressures in excess of 80,000 psi; previously unheard of for small arms. "Tak that I was not comparing 6.8x51 from Shig (aka 277 Fury). All objections to the original source. By the way, 6.8x51 from whitefish has exactly this pressure. I repeat, I know about these cartridges, be it Sigovsky or Tru Velocity, only what they write and show. You write less, read more, this will help you create the illusion that you are not a complete layman ..

As for ballistics and energy. 7.62x51 NATO M80, energy 3560 J. 277 Fury (aka 6.8x51, aka 6.8 SIG NGSW) 3650J.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/277-sig-fury-demystified/

And here is the ballistics comparing 6.8x51 (aka 6.8 SIG NGSW) with 6.5x51 (aka 6.5 Creedmoor).
https://www.bellmtcs.com/blog/new-sig-fury-comparrison

Next time, don't be lazy and don't force others to do the job for you. You take Google and score what you want to find. For example 6.5 Creedmoor vs 7.62x51. You will see that Kridmoor has better ballistics than 7.62x51, and 277 Fury, aka 6.8x51, aka 6.8 SIG NGSW, is even better.

Before teaching me spelling, learn how to use search engines. Create the illusion that you are not a complete layman. By the way, when you merge a dispute, find fault not only with spelling, but also with punctuation.

How old are you, 13 or still 12?

[Genry]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Tak that comparing 6.8x51 from Shig (aka 277 Fury) is not me.

You didn't even compare - but APPROVED:

Quote: Baron Pardus

the ballistics of the 6.8 cartridge has long been no secret to anyone. These figures exceed 7.62x51 NATO and correspond to the ballistics of 270 WSM (270 Winchester short magnum)

And have already merged into:

Quote: Baron Pardus

As for ballistics and energy. 7.62x51 NATO M80, energy 3560 J. 277 Fury (aka 6.8x51, aka 6.8 SIG NGSW) 3650J.

============================================

Quote: Baron Pardus

Turns out, that performance they are seeking is similar to 270 Win Short Mag. The velocities required to achieve the desired effects for that 6.8mm projectile on target call for extremely high chamber pressures in excess of 80,000 psi; previously unheard of for small arms.

Not trained in manners, write without translation to a Russian site.
Ah ... ahh, they have not matured to the Google translator, which gives out:

It turns out that the quality they are looking for is similar to 270 Win Short Mag. The speeds required to achieve the desired effect for this 6,8mm projectile on the target requires extremely high chamber pressures in excess of 80 psi; previously unheard of for small arms.

This is only a criticism of the author, not some kind of comparison.
===============================================

Quote: Baron Pardus

And here is the ballistics comparing 6.8x51 (aka 6.8 SIG NGSW) with 6.5x51 (aka 6.5 Creedmoor).
https://www.bellmtcs.com/blog/new-sig-fury-comparrison

Halturite ... The link is broken.

Quote: Baron Pardus

Next time, don't be lazy and don't force others to do the job for you. You take Google and score what you want to find.

Are you standing on your hands and slapping the keys with your feet?
From what ... I must seek confirmation of your fabrications. You yourself must reinforce them right away.
Searching for other people's nonsense is useless.

Quote: Baron Pardus

How old are you, 13 or still 12?

Do not pretend to be a fool and you will not be considered so.

[Baron pardus]

a) The link is not broken. It opens up for me. Try to use not a pirated OS, but spend money on a license.
b) If you open your eyes and read the performance characteristics of 277 Fury, then you will be surprised, born of ignorance, to see that the pressure is exactly 80000 PSI.
c) You merge, demonstrating not only ignorance, but also not a desire to learn anything (and why are you not a reader, you are a writer, why should you read what smart people have written, when you can shout and show your "unique, inimitable, creative, worthy of respect only its existence "nature. And you can take off your eyes, rinse them, look at the performance characteristics and see what:
7.62x51 NATO M80 ball ammo has an energy of 3,470 J. A 7.62x51NATO M118 BTHP has an energy of 3,562 J
And 277 Fury, aka 6.8x51, aka NGSW SIG, has an energy of 3653J-3569J. That is, the energy of both cartridges is comparable.
d) The original English text was provided specifically for "smart guys" like you who would start shouting that I did not translate something correctly.

The manner of my address depends on how they talk to me. You can show your "attitude" which you show in the safety of your family's apartment. You have proved not only your ignorance, but also your banal unwillingness to read at least something. Go back to 3rd grade. There you will be taught to use corny search engines, such as Yandex and Google.

Thank you for confirming. You are 13.

[Alex777]

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/10/27/inside-armys-quest-revolutionary-new-bullet.html

[Baron pardus]

The original source says True velocity is slightly shorter but fatter and will required REDESIGNED magazines. The word "redesigned" translates as "redesigned", "corrected". That is, the stores must be modified. But do not cut new ones from scratch in any way. As I already told you stores 6.8 True Velocity were tested in the M110 rifle. Not "new magazines and new ammunition" but simply "new ammunition". I think the store changed the "follower" and that's it.

[lucul]

Most likely, this means REFUSAL from automatic fire, and a return to the concept of a self-loading rifle (Battle Rifle), in the style of FAL / G3 / M14 / G43 / SVT.

First of all, you would be interested in the very concept of the machine, for what purposes it was created)))
The fact that the Americans are trying to fight remotely (work, not war), and for these purposes, the concept of an automatic rifle is more suitable for them. But in close combat (urban / trench)) this rifle is inferior to the machine gun.
The Second World War chewed all this up to people, it is surprising that there are those who still do not catch up.

[Baron pardus]

Everything that World War II was is outdated. From massive strikes by tank wedges, to armada of attack aircraft and dive bombers over the enemy's front line. All this is ALREADY outdated. No one will storm the city head-on. You have already proved in Grozny that this is idiocy.

[lucul]

Everything that World War II was is out of date. From massive strikes by tank wedges, to armada of attack aircraft and dive bombers over the enemy's front line. This is all ALREADY outdated. No one will storm the city head-on. You have already proved in Grozny that this is idiocy.

Something that reminds me of ... oh yes, Francis Fukuyama and his End of the story)))
As a result, the Americans left Afgan with their weapons.

[Baron pardus]

Can you explain on your fingers why they left? Because they came without knowing why. There were no clear goals. "The fight against terrorism" is not a goal, or rather not a clear goal, since terrorism, as such, can only be defeated by POLITICAL cleansing of the carriers of such ideology. That is, Islamic terrorism can be defeated only by polishing out all Muslims. Likewise, the SS terrorism was defeated by clearing out all the SS. There are no clear goals. The money is spent. We bear losses (ten times less than the Afghans, but we bear them). What for is it necessary. We left there because we DIDN'T HAVE TO CLIMB THERE WITHOUT SPECIFIC PURPOSES.
In general, we climbed into Iraq for the sake of oil. Everyone knew that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, and everyone knew that he had no nuclear weapons at all. But if you have oil, we will bring you democracy and capitalism. Why? But because ... Mark Twain explained the US mentality a long time ago. Things have only gotten worse since then.

[lucul]

Because they came without knowing why. There were no clear goals

The capitalists failed to set clear goals? )))
Nu-nu.

The fight against terrorism "is not a goal, or rather not a clear goal, since terrorism, as such, can only be defeated by POLITICAL cleansing of the carriers of such an ideology

Terrorism is not a cause - terrorism is a consequence, a reaction of rejection to the imposed interest rate.

[Alex777]

Vitaly!
The Baron is right this time. As it is.

[onstar9]

Quote: lucul

Terrorism is not a cause - terrorism is a consequence, a reaction of rejection to the imposed interest rate.

Don't focus everything on the "guilt of the money" or "the guilt of the rich." In the United States, two Muslim brothers recently became terrorists, who lived quite well, studied, worked ... But, they began to blow up ...

[Clone]

Quote: lucul

Americans with their weapons left Afgan

"This is completely different!" (with)

[mister-red]

You have already proved in Grozny that this is idiocy.

To clarify, what was done in Grozny was idiocy.

[onstar9]

Quote: mister-red

You have already proved in Grozny that this is idiocy.

To clarify, what was done in Grozny was idiocy.

The decision of the US top to get into Afghanistan (as well as into Iraq) was the same "idiocy". Upstairs, in all countries, they think the same ...

[Baron pardus]

At least there is oil in Iraq. But the clownery that ours staged at the UN when Colin Powell shook a test tube of soda like an orangutan shook a freshly found banana - a shame. It's just a shame. I do not know whose more - ours that we arranged it, or the UN who "agreed" with our conclusions, while clearly knowing that the UN inspectors were not even allowed to speak.

[Roman_vh]

And such people are trusted with at least some kind of weapon? Are nude, lies and hypocrisy in your constitution enshrined in law?

[Baron pardus]

Manifest Destiny

[www3]

about the cartridge and calibers well.
but why the crap write about test tubes?
he argued that as many ulcer spores as in this test tube were enough to create serious problems. read the original of his speech. who would allow him to bring real disputes to the meeting ???)) he did not assert anything else and used a test tube as a teaching aid: such as this amount of such and such a substance, you can arrange the following.

[mister-red]

Quote: onstar9

Quote: mister-red

You have already proved in Grozny that this is idiocy.

To clarify, what was done in Grozny was idiocy.

The decision of the US top to get into Afghanistan (as well as into Iraq) was the same "idiocy". Upstairs, in all countries, they think the same ...

There is a slight difference in these two actions. In Grozny, it was a war crime on the part of Grachev to send people like this. In wartime, he was shot for such a thing.
And Afghanistan is a political decision, the military acted as they could.

[Barberry25]

it is doubtful that the Americans will decide on a banal re-barrel of a weapon ... I drank the wrong size, and according to the contract they will immediately have new barrels ... the question is that they can throw out a child with water, the fact that automatic fire in such a caliber will be absolutely ineffective known, but what will they answer in terms of protection?

[Baron pardus]

You are absolutely right. But the egghead guys at True Velocity and Sig Sauer wisely decided that they would supply both ammunition and rifles to our army. And if someone else wants to switch to this cartridge but at a bargain price, then it will be enough to re-shoot the rifles. M240 and M14 have already been re-shot and tested. No problem. Stores FIT. No shutter replacement required. I have already written about the 6.5 Creedmore hunting cartridge, which uses the same magazines and the same bolt as the 7.62x51 NATO. Those who want to spend the money will buy new weapons. Those who have no money will simply overload their FALs, G3, MG3 and something else in 7.62x51 caliber.

[Barberry25]

the problem of any new weapon is not a machine gun and a machine gun, but cartridges ... For the same reason, many countries do not order new tanks, for example, since the transition from the conditional 105/115 mm to 120/125 mm will cost a lot of money ... So all sorts of Nobody will shoot the files and G3 with MG3, because it is very expensive ... to bring in a new cartridge

[Baron pardus]

You are wrong. No wonder ours demonstrated that both the M240, the M14 and even the M134 use new ammunition by simply replacing the barrel. This is great marketing. Would you like some new rifles? Our ammunition works on old ones. By the way, a new barrel, if I want the coolest barrel for my FAL it will be 350 bucks for me as a civilian. New FAL, me as a civilian 1600 bucks. So they showed it for a reason. Americans love modularity and interchangeability. The whole tsimes, for example, AP15, that having one lower receiver, you can only change the upper part and magazines with a shutter and have a bunch of calibers. from 9x19 to 6.8 SPC even through monstrous calibers such as .500 Beowulf.
Both SIG and Tru Velocity really want to push their own ammunition. And they understand that if they ask too much, they will lose. Therefore, we made a feint with our ears - if you want - we will sell ammunition and new rifles. Want to save money? Then all you need is new trunks. You are right that new cartridges for the army are a lot of money. But if you need new rifles and new magazines with new cartridges, that's EVEN more money. The budget is not rubber. Moreover, everything is done with the expectation of the INTERNATIONAL arms market. If the Americans adopt a new rifle, they can banal ban on its export. But they cannot prohibit the SIG SAUER company from exporting ammunition.

But they switched to 120 from 105. And on 125 they switched from 115 and 100mm. Soldiers' lives and a war won cost money. Those who do not want to feed their army will feed someone else's. With your logic, you need to ride Shermans and T-34s because changing calibers and weapon systems is expensive. By the way, the clever French made a very good deal by shoving a 105mm cannon into the Sherman. And no one yelled like you "Nobody will overload anything, new ammunition is expensive", as they put 105mm guns on both the Sherman and AMX13. It turned out to be cheaper than making new tanks. And the super Shermans soaked the T54 without any problems.

[Barberry25]

those. For 50 years they did not dare to change 7,62 to 5,56, but then they will decide? Forget about replaceable aper-this topic was popular 15 years ago, until it turned out that no one would order even versions with different barrel lengths .. Pro " switched "- all the powers switched back during the Cold War, and who stayed now, no one is moving, just like who is sitting with Falami now, will not switch to a newfangled patron, for there are no denyuzhek

[Baron pardus]

As a CIVIL owner of AP15, I am not going to forget about replaceable "uppers". Among civilians, replaceable apertures are the norm. So. I have 5.56x45 apertures: 20 "barrel (gas piston), 18" barrel with long gas system (gas piston), 16 "barrel with medium gas system (gas piston) All 3 with Adams arms system. 16 "barrel 9x19mm (magazines from ultrasound). 20" barrel for 6.5 Grendel (gas-piston from Osprey Defense). 5.45x39 16 "barrel with a medium gas system (adams arms gas piston), 7.62x39 16" (medium gas piston system - Osprey defense). 7.62x39 18 "long gas piston system - osprey defense. Moreover, there is a" pistol "lower with a" stop type "(this is not a butt, mother Klyanus), and 11.5" barrels for 5.45 and 5.56, both gas pistons from the company Adams Arms. Of course, I can theoretically put them on a regular lower, with a butt, but since this is forbidden, I NEVER did it (Mom klanus). In addition, there is an 18 "5.56 without a gas piston system. But the cold-forged barrel of the FN Herstal company, a steel gas tube with a melonite coating. As experience has shown, the tube itself is much easier to clean, but the amount of shit flying into the receiver when fired is not less However, all my rifles have bolts coated with melonite, so cleaning them is easy, but cleaning the same ARC with a gas-piston system is much easier.

As I already wrote, I thought about purchasing or assembling (in fact, I collect both aper and a lover myself), in calibers 300 blackout, 224 Valkyrie and 6.8 Special. But it will turn out to be too big a jumble of calibers and also expensive, both spare parts and ammunition. Why do I need 6.8 TWS if 6.5 Grendel is both cheaper and better. Why do I need 300 Blackout if 7.62x39 is much cheaper (almost twice) and is almost as good as blackout.

By the way, since I collect my Lowers, I have them all with a two-way fire translator, with a two-way magazine ejection button. On all lowers I have (and I have 5 workers), there is a double trigger. The shot occurs when the trigger is PUSHED and when the trigger is RETURNED (that is, short bursts of two shots)

I also have lowers that can be collected with a full transfer of fire. "Fuse, lonely, automatic", but since this is forbidden, I will never collect them, I have them purely for the collection - Mama Klanus. Well, in case of a zombie invasion. Or blacks, or blacks zombies. "Ты застрелил зомби-негра" "Так он был зомби?" is an American joke.

How much does it all cost? Upper herself - up to 100 bucks. The trunk is about 200 bucks. Gas system (with a shutter, or rather Bolt Carrier) 200 bucks. The shutter itself (bolt), 80-90 bucks. So buy one lower bucks for 200-300. If you want to install a binary trigger, it will cost you another 400 bucks. And then for 500-600 bucks you have a new rifle.

[Barberry25]

but what have the civilians to do with it? How old is the topic with replaceable barrels? But what's the point? how everyone ran with one familiar barrel, and they run ... a soldier needs rounds of rounds per year? 300 pieces? and an army of 100 snouts? already 000 million ... And this is only to maintain combat readiness, but for war? minimum..

[Alex777]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Stores FIT. No shutter replacement required. I have already written about the 6.5 Creedmore hunting cartridge, which uses the same magazines and the same bolt as the 7.62x51 NATO.

Stores are only suitable for Sig Sauer.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/10/27/inside-armys-quest-revolutionary-new-bullet.html

[Baron pardus]

I was talking about the Sig Sauer patron. There is one more cartridge True Velocity 6.8. The same 6.8x51 but from a different company. With an all-plastic sleeve. By the way, Tru Velocity also makes 7.62x51 with a completely plastic sleeve. True Velocity 6.8 Tested in M110 Rifles (7.62x51). Without replacing the shutter and magazine. But the patron of the 3rd company does not climb anywhere, and, according to all analysts, he has the lowest chances of being adopted.

[OgnennyiKotik]

The question has arisen.
Now the infantry platoon of your army has 3 squads with 6 machine guns with M-249 5,56 × 45 and a weapons squad with 2 M-240 7,62 × 51 machine guns.
If the machine guns of the 5,56 × 45 caliber are changed to 6.8x51, then the question arises: what will happen to the machine guns of the weapon compartment? 6.8x51 and 7,62x51, as I understand it, are very close and the M-240 will no longer have the effect of settling the platoon.

[DDZ57]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Most likely, this means REFUSAL from automatic fire, and a return to the concept of a self-loading rifle (Battle Rifle), in the style of FAL / G3 / M14 / G43 / SVT.

The task of unification is being solved (there were 2 cartridges - there will be one, there were 2 machine guns - there will be one but with greater efficiency). P / a minute accuracy rifle eliminates the need for a half-minute accuracy bolt rifle in conventional units.
Logistics is simplified.
The presence of muzzle devices on semi-automatic rifles will ensure accurate shooting from unstable positions, including when firing a burst (so that an interpreter and an automatic mode may appear). It is also possible to implement a fixed queue mode. Everything is still to come and will appear pretty soon.
New sighting systems and a more powerful cartridge will ensure the destruction of targets at long distances, while the personnel will be out of damage from enemy fire.

[Volodin]

Quote: Basarev

And we have, damn it, still grandfather's Kalash. And an aggressive reluctance to change. Will we find ourselves in the situation of the natives - with a bow against a machine gun?

Doubtful comparison. What does "grandfather's" mean? Or is everything in the army all polls with the first versions of the AK-47 so far?

Approximately according to the same logic: "And here, damn it, they offer all stew in dry rations. Wouldn't we be left that way with outdated meat against their progressive fries"))

[PROXOR]

It doesn't matter what weapon is in hand, it is important who uses it. Yakut Volodya in Chechnya from Mosinka shot hardened Chechen snipers with welded bolts.

[MTZ 80]

Do you want to shower with hats? LOL

[PROXOR]

It's only in your sore brain.

[MTZ 80]

Well, you say the weapon is not important))))

[PROXOR]

Everything is correct. A specialist with a Kalash will make much more than a green youth with the most sophisticated rifle.
Thank God, the trend is that the army in the rifle station is being modernized. And this applies not only to the MTR.

[MTZ 80]

There are also quite a few specialists in the US Army. I would not rely only on this factor

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: MTZ 80

There are also quite a few specialists in the US Army.

And where will these specialists go with the millions of accumulated barrels of old calibers and hundreds of millions, if not billions, of cartridges for them?
No allies, like Ukraine, will be enough to shove them off all this pornography even for nothing. There is not so much room there. Threatening will have to turn kindergartens into arsenals.

[MTZ 80]

Following your rule, you had to stay with the PPSh, and not reinvent the Kalash

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Did I suggest anything? He just asked.
I will ask again. What if you answer?
How long, in the light of the thesis I mentioned above, will the rearmament of the American army with an ultra-modern complex of small arms continue?

[Babermetis]

Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich

Quote: MTZ 80

There are also quite a few specialists in the US Army.

And where will these specialists go with the millions of accumulated barrels of old calibers and hundreds of millions, if not billions, of cartridges for them?
No allies, like Ukraine, will be enough to shove them off all this pornography even for nothing. There is not so much room there. Threatening will have to turn kindergartens into arsenals.

In South America - drug traffickers and local natives will be thrown off for nothing, let the Indians indulge, then the white man will colonize them.

I think they are not casually thinking about new small arms with a new hummingbird, they will have to shoot at their local "militias" which are very well equipped and will surrender any regular army in the world. In the United States, the situation is not easy.

[Baron pardus]

We will sell at a bargain price to the countries of the 3rd world. The same Portuguese and Latinos. Well, we will throw off in all sorts of Africa. And the replacement will be gradual. First - to the special forces. Then to the paratroopers and marines. Then the infantrymen in the army. Then the National Guardsmen. Well, further down the list. Rifles will be replaced for at least 5-10 years. No one IMMEDIATELY, at the same time, will not re-equip all the US Armed Forces with new rifles and machine guns. The replacement will take place gradually. By the way, I have NOT heard that this cartridge will become the new NATO standard. It is very good that the cartridge can be used in weapons under the caliber 7.62x51 by simply replacing the barrel and, sometimes, the return spring.

[t-12]

And what will a specialist with a Kalash do against a specialist with a sophisticated rifle and new light (telescopic, caseless) cartridges?

[I am not a robot]

at real combat distances, they will be equal,

[t-12]

The war will already show it.

[voyaka uh]

The fact of the matter is that real distances have increased with equipment
weapons of ordinary infantrymen with standard optics.
What is a real distance for optics, for weapons without optics is prohibitive.

[I am not a robot]

optics can be installed on AKM

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

optics can be installed on AKM

There are no OEPs that are going to be installed in the United States on a new generation of shooters in the Russian Federation, just as there are no components for them and technologies for their production.

[DDZ57]

They will release a "self-propelled rifle" at the real distance of the battle,

and they themselves will be at a distance of destruction with weapons of feces. 6,8mm, or a little closer, but
navigate the Israeli Carnelian.

[I am not a robot]

and we will send uranium 2000 and it will crush this cuttlefish and shoot the carnele with a 30 mm cannon

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

and we will send uranium 2000 and it will crush this cuttlefish and shoot the carnele with a 30 mm cannon

Already sent in 1904, 1941, 1982, 1991, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Syria, Karabakh (2020), etc.
The results are known.

[I am not a robot]

you threw us higher with your hats, I jokingly answered you
1991, Karabakh, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Syria that's about what
1941 ended 1945 in Berlin

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

you threw us higher with your hats, I jokingly answered you
1991, Karabakh, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Syria that's about what

Firstly, I didn't talk about hats.
Secondly: 1991. - the liquidation of the USSR.
- Afghanistan is one of the points that led to the collapse of the USSR and launched the "Islamic reactor" (the USSR sent its equipment there - a large number). And what is the result?
- Karabakh 2020 is a great result from the point of view of the AR (whose technique was there, the result is obvious).
Chechnya - the Russian Federation has worked so well there that it is not known how many years it will pay the indemnity ("cool" dispatch of equipment to storm Grozny).
Syria - the result is predictable (it will be like in Afghanistan, but only possible with the consideration of the case in the tribunal in The Hague and payment of compensation).

Quote: Janerobot

1941 ended 1945 in Berlin

! 945 ended in Berlin, but look how the remaining participants in those events in Russia and Germany live.
In the Russian Federation, to date, they cannot properly bury from the battlefields.
Not like burying, they cannot count.
And look how many vehicles were there in 1941. on the western borders. And what is the result?

[I am not a robot]

above in the comments you posted pictures and wrote how you will win everyone
Azerbaijan had more equipment than Armenians, the result is obvious
if the war ended in Moscow you would not have been, you would have made soap out of your ancestors
for example, we did not fight with Kamchatka, but as you say, we pay more indemnities than Chechnya
so you from ukraine or something (the hague, compensation) would write right away, you can't argue with people who live in a fictional world

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

above in the comments you posted pictures and wrote how you will win everyone

There is no comment that someone will win.
There is only a variant of the predicted actions in the presence of appropriate weapons and their probable result.

Quote: Janerobot

Azerbaijan had more of our equipment than Armenians

Everything is exactly the opposite.

Armenia had all your equipment.
And Azerbaijan, in addition to your equipment, had equipment from Turkey, Israel, and the Czech Republic.
The result is known to you.

Quote: Janerobot

so you from ukraine or something (the hague, compensation) would write right away, you can't argue with people who live in a fictional world

I do not live in a fantasy world, I live in a real world.
And I really imagine the result of a clash between units armed with a Kalashnikov assault rifle with a unit armed with an NGSW rifleman. And it makes no difference where I live.

You forgot to ask a question about 1982. from my earlier comment.
I’ll answer you: this is Operation Artsav-19 (“Artsav” - “Medvedka” in Hebrew), when the Israeli armed forces for several hours opened and rolled out for several hours a "exemplary" air defense group in the Bekaa Valley, which in Moscow and Damascus were considered invulnerable to any means of air attack, except nuclear ones. And with virtually no casualties in the Israeli army.
Some have a short memory.
1904 - Tsushima is the result.
1941 - Barbarossa is the result.
1982 - Medvedka is the result.
2020 - Iron fist (Nagorno-Karabakh) - the result.
A 2019. in Armenia "they sang and danced".
They started the exercises of the air defense forces of the Armed Forces of the republic, during which the latest Russian air defense systems were shown. Air defense units of the Artsakh Defense Army (Nagorno-Karabakh) also participated in these exercises. “The exercises involved modern air defense weapons - SAM S-300, modernized S-125, self-propelled - Osa-AK and Strela-10, Igla-S and Verba MANPADS. Air defense units equipped with the latest radar systems made in Armenia also took part in the military exercises. The aim of the military exercises is to harmonize joint actions, increase the level of control systems, radar reconnaissance and the effectiveness of the destruction of air attack means, "the press service of the Armenian Defense Ministry reported.
The final result and effectiveness of those exercises were partially demonstrated at the parade in Baku on December 10.12.2020, XNUMX.

[I am not a robot]

as an air defense group that does not have full radar coverage, it can be invulnerable to any means of air attack, except nuclear
and why, in addition to nuclear, air defense systems are completely affected by conventional bombs, maybe you are just lying that Moscow thought so
1904 Tsushima - Result 1945 - Manzhuria
1941 - Barbarossa - result 1945 -Berlin.
and why the Israelis are the majority of Russophobes, it's the Germans who staged the Holocaust
and watch a video from afghan; where 2 spirits with akm fight for hours with a company of marines, shoot thousands of cartridges into nowhere and only the arrival of the apaches decides everything

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

as an air defense group that does not have full radar coverage, it can be invulnerable to any means of air attack, except nuclear
and why, in addition to nuclear, air defense systems are completely affected by conventional bombs, maybe you are just lying that Moscow thought so

Yes, I'm lying if the chief of staff of the army air defense, Lieutenant General A. Maslov, is lying.
You read, as already said here Baron Pardus (Dmitry), about Operation Medvedka, everything is on the Internet. And the anti-aircraft missile systems of the air defense group in the Bekaa valley had a triple overlap, in addition to this, they were covered by the ZA.

You read carefully. Earlier, according to the results of the exercises in 2020. in Armenia they had a great report, I wrote about it. We studied everything, took everything into account, and results at the parade in Baku in December.
Dear Russians can only be proud of 1945, they arrange parades on this occasion, but for some reason they have been creating 1945 until now. not properly buried.

Quote: Janerobot

watch a video from afghan; where 2 spirits with akm fight for hours with a company of marines, shoot thousands of cartridges into nowhere and only the arrival of the apaches decides everything

.
Better to wait 2 hours for the Apaches to arrive than to put the squad down.
This is only in the USSR, and now in the Russian Federation for "not worth the price, "which was in 41-45 and not only in those years.

Quote: Janerobot

1904 Tsushima - Result 1945 - Manzhuria

Of course, all this is good, but why then "dear Russians" patriots do not give up on Japanese Toyota and other technology
And where did the defeated go to Manchuria[b] [/ b] Japan, and in which compartment of J. s is the Russian Federation.
Let me be a Ukrainian, a Jew or another, but patriots need to know their language, this is me for the spelling of words in Russian.

Quote: Janerobot

manjuria

[I am not a robot]

at exercises, friendly countries are always given good marks, and they say the enemy will not pass, even if they did not get anywhere, and they do not know how to press buttons, this is a press conference for the media.
why give up Japanese cars, and the equipment is mostly all Chinese, the Japanese do not produce anything
well, in Russia it is quite normal to live, I don’t know where you live
so i'm not russian

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

why give up Japanese cars, and the equipment is mostly all Chinese, the Japanese do not produce anything

Someone uses Chinese, and someone - Japanese. But I don’t argue - in recent years, the level of Chinese has been growing by leaps and bounds.

Quote: Janerobot

well, in Russia it is quite normal to live, I don’t know where you live
so i'm not russian

And about hats, heroes, patriots, f .. s and so on - listen to E. Panasenkov: "The truth about the military history of Russia: from Alexander I to Stalin"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPKmZy9tx4o.
A literate person speaks.

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

uranium 2000 and he will crush this cuttlefish

For the cuttlefish, read: Project SPUR: Robot Dog Becomes a Sniper -
https://topwar.ru/188038-proekt-spur-robot-sobaka-stanovitsja-snajperom.html

And so this cuttlefish is running now at the exhibition-conference of the US Army Association AUSA-2021

[Genry]

Quote: t-12

And what will a specialist with a Kalash do against a specialist with a sophisticated rifle and new light (telescopic, caseless) cartridges?

And where are those "telescopic" ones of yours?
Are you delirious or dreaming?

[t-12]

Too lazy to google "telescoped ammunition"?

[Genry]

Quote: t-12

Too lazy to google "telescopic ammunition"?

Is it being adopted?
Please do not talk about a spherical horse in a vacuum.

[t-12]

The article says that a competition is being held, and in 2022 a decision will be made on the winner.

[Genry]

In an article about ...

Textron Systems comes out with proposal to create promising weapon with caseless cartridges for the American army.

Are you a reader or

[poquello]

Quote: t-12

And what will a specialist with a Kalash do against a specialist with a sophisticated rifle and new light (telescopic, caseless) cartridges?

it depends on who has one cartridge, and who has a bucket

[Baron pardus]

The Sig Sauer and True Velocity cartridges are NOT TELESCOPIC.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: t-12

And what will a specialist with a Kalash do against a specialist with a sophisticated rifle and new light (telescopic, caseless) cartridges?

SHOOT him to the edren hair dryer, so as not to suffer!

[Pilat2009]

Quote: PROXOR

will make a lot more than a green youth with the most sophisticated rifle

But the army is professional there.

[Baron pardus]

Where do you get specialists from? We have at least 4 years of service. You have a year.

[t-12]

Obviously, "specialists" are contractors. They are enough for small wars, and yadren-loaves protect from a major war.

[Volunteer]

The number of blacks, etc. exceeded 30%, so 4 years will not be enough. Not to mention the massive recruitment of LGBT fighters who are more concerned with gender reassignment, which the army pays for ...

[Baron pardus]

Don't even remind. A shame. Not that a shame, but the bottom is close. There are no problems with blacks. An army of blacks makes normal people. At least I did. And everything else. Imagine, now the recruit can tell the sergeant "I'm under stress, I need a" safe space "and the sergeant MUST leave the recruit alone. there will be no gender reassignment. But this is only for now. The country is going crazy. However, the entire Western civilization has embarked on a course of complete self-destruction. First cultural and moral, and then physical, is not far off, unless there is a worthy leader to protect traditions and values Western Civilization. Superman has already been made bisexual. Robin (from Bamman) too. Now they will make a television series based on "The Lord of the Rings", they announced that the Hobbits will be made blacks. If they remove that Gimli and Legolas have a romance, I will not be surprised. - Tolerasts are wildly surprised at the growth of extreme right-wing, neo-fascist and neo-Nazi groups in the US For every action there is opposition. Wildly surprised and indignant when some e people greet each other with "Heil Trump"
You listen to all this news and remember two mimes: One SS man says to another - "Hans, get ze flammenwerfer"
On the other, Adolf Hitler raises his hands to the sky and says "This shit is why I gas people".

[Volunteer]

"Transgender soldiers can openly serve in the Army and the force will provide hormone therapy, mental health care and surgeries they might require".
This directive is from June 2021 and according to it the gender change will be paid.
Lived 31 years in the states and the country has changed beyond recognition. This year (I am 60 years old) I retired. In two years I will get the second from the feds (Social Security), sell the house and move to Europe.
I have nothing to do here - if in 2022 the Democrats keep the Congress and get at least 51 votes in the Senate, then the fluffy polar animal will settle here forever.
Yesterday we drove a video with Kamala about the future of America, in particular about space exploration, so 5 children participated there. One Spaniard, one Asian, a black man with a black woman and a white woman. There was no place for a white boy - here's the future for you.

[Baron pardus]

In Europe, tolerance is even worse. Plus came in large numbers of subsimians from the Middle East and Africa. The only normal countries in Europe are Poland and Hungary. Scandinavia, France, Germany are polluted by both feminists and "oppressed original refugees", and 50 kinds of sex orientations. You look at all this and you start to think that maybe one amateur artist was not wrong about everything. And you start to think that the arrival of the People's Liberation Army of China would be preferable to where the European / White civilization is headed.

[lucul]

Well, you say the weapon is not important))))

Amer helped weapons in Afghanistan?
Likewise, the Byzantines were not helped by weapons against the Turks.

[Prisoner]

Why hats? We have something to shower even without hats.

[Cron]

Quote: MTZ 80

Do you want to shower with hats? LOL

Well, if something happens, the Americans will have to be bombarded with nuclear missiles. Why are there hats?
You, the Sumerians, will have to be bombarded with high-precision weapons and carried out with the help of aircraft. And then why hats?
There remain only minor local conflicts, where our "partners" will plant various new weapons and ammunition on all moderates.

[Flooding]

Quote: Basarev

Will we find ourselves in the situation of the natives - with a bow against a machine gun?

do not be sad, Basarev
the natives, in addition to bows, have flying carpets and nuclear magic
but the question of small caliber does not change this

[Roma 1977]

It seems to me that improving the quality of existing ammunition is more important for the Russian Federation, rather than developing new ones.

[Flooding]

Quote: Roma-1977

It seems to me that improving the quality of existing ammunition is more important for the Russian Federation, rather than developing new ones.

no doubt the quality of the gross chuck is a priority
while the development of new ammunition is a groundwork for the future
and the prospect is an insidious woman
if you do not invest in it, then it will go to a neighbor

[Roma 1977]

Yet we have reached the limit of the development of small arms. Physics and chemistry are not allowed further. How to make a 6.5mm cartridge so that it has less impulse than 5.56, and the bullet speed is higher? Mystery.

[Flooding]

Quote: Roma-1977

How to make a 6.5mm cartridge so that it has less impulse than 5.56, and the bullet speed is higher?

there are other important indicators
manufacturability, cost, size, weight

[Roma 1977]

I'm afraid that here too we have reached the limit, because a gain in one characteristic only leads to a loss in others.

[Prisoner]

"I'll tell you one smart thing. Just don't be offended ...".

No need to scratch where it does not itch. Here the Americans do not scratch. "In the infantry units, the operation of the M4 and M16 will continue until, as a result, a larger contract for the production and supply of NGSW is implemented ..." (c) As you can see, their "old-fashioned" vintari do not strain. Although they should have strained for a long time.

[dzvero]

with a bow against a machine gun

Unlikely. 6.8 is good, but not a wunderwolf. Here antires in another - a massive transition to a new caliber. Those. a good jackpot for the military-industrial complex out of the blue.
But will a stone flower bloom ...? How many such programs have been in the last seventy years ... and their machine gun comes from WWI; M16 was actually accepted as a "temporary solution" ... In the piggy bank of doubts about success and what the United States is doing for itself and does not impose on others (maybe so far).

[Victorio]

Quote: dzvero

with a bow against a machine gun

Unlikely. 6.8 is good, but not a wunderwolf. Here antires in another - a massive transition to a new caliber. Those. a good jackpot for the military-industrial complex out of the blue.
But will a stone flower bloom ...? How many such programs have been in the last seventy years ... and their machine gun comes from WWI; M16 was actually accepted as a "temporary solution" ... In the piggy bank of doubts about success and what the United States is doing for itself and does not impose on others (maybe so far).

===
in, and soon of all. and on the other hand, a new direction.

[Cowbra]

Quote: dzvero

How many such programs have been in the last seventy years ... and their machine gun comes from WWI; M16 was actually adopted as a "temporary solution"

There are a lot of strange quirks. For example, about the handbrakes, they have been suffering for more than a dozen years - they cannot create an analogue of the PKK. And their obstinacy with the stoner scheme ... Which means a priori NOT a folding stock ... In fact, what they themselves say is that the M4 is worse in performance than the M16, but with the M16 you can't fit into the troop compartment of armored vehicles. And as a result, they buy Heckler-Koch, who got rid of this idiocy.

[dzvero]

There are a lot of strange quirks in general

The most paradoxical thing is that the weapons school is up to the mark. And look at the result and involuntarily you begin to agree with conspiracy theorists and members of the sect of witnesses saw the dough ...

[Cowbra]

Quote: dzvero

The most paradoxical thing is that the weapons school is up to the mark.

About that and speech. Forgive me, but in a country where it is easier to buy a pistol than a car or a telephone, is it impossible to create a service PISTOL for your army? The Italians accepted ... The dog was with them, even with machine guns. although this is still a laugh, but a pistol ?!

[dzvero]

but a pistol ?!

I don’t know ... Maybe they have a new trick - "abroad will help us" (c) Kakbe in about fifteen years did not run into "import substitution". Then we can see something else in service ...

[RomanRS]

Italian pistols? Beretta, Glok, SIG SAUER, etc. - these are no longer small-town workshops in small towns of Italy, Germany or Austria. These are large international corporations with divisions around the world, in which specialists from all over the world work. They have no nationality. All these companies have their own production facilities in the United States.

[Foul skeptic]

For example, about the handbrakes, they have been suffering for more than a dozen years - they cannot create an analogue of the PKK.

Colt has been producing its LSW for half a century. But he is not very much needed by anyone. Like the PKK.

[Cowbra]

Maybe because it was chambered for a small cartridge? And the weight is more than the PKK? And about the fact that the PKK is needed - it's not me who suffers, but the officers of the US Army and the ILC are bursting into tears for a decade, yelling in all the magazines

[Foul skeptic]

Maybe because it was chambered for a small cartridge?

Can you highlight the advantages of 7,62x39 versus 5,56x45 in real conditions of use and at real combat distance? Considering the real situation with the SIBZ during the period of the PKK's use in our army? And then remember that the PKK has been replaced by the PKK74.

And the weight is more than the PKK?

Until loaded?

And about the fact that the PKK is needed - it's not me who suffers, but the officers of the US Army and the ILC are bursting into tears for a decade, yelling in all the magazines

Oh, come on. Is there at least one example of such an article in the magazine? Let's see what the screams are about.
Well, do not lose sight of the fact that considering just a "trunk" without analyzing the place of the "trunk" in the structure of divisions is a kindergarten. And then it turns out that the light infantrymen of a potential enemy in a platoon have 2 full-fledged 7,62 with an adjustable rate of fire of 600-1000 high / min and 6 "saws" 5,56 with a rate of fire of 900 high / min, 100 cartridge boxes and a replaceable barrel. And we have 1 7,62 from 600 high / min. and 3 RPK74 with 600 high mines and a magazine for 60 rounds and without the ability to change the barrel. So calculate the density of fire of two platoons.

[Cowbra]

Can you highlight the advantages of 7,62x39 versus 5,56x45 in real conditions of use and at real combat distance?

Up to 400 meters? Yes, please - well, the same cartridge, but SKS. Call sign - shaman without numbers. Five in a pack of cigarettes for 500 meters. Can you repeat it?

[Foul skeptic]

Do you think this is the answer to my questions? Well, it's your will.
It's always nice to read fairy tales.

[Baron pardus]

Believe it or not, the PKK is shit, unlike PKM. Without a replaceable barrel, the PKK is NOT ABLE to provide the required fire density. Store food, unlike ribbon food, also does not help with the density of fire. The bipod attached directly to the barrel, when the barrel heats up, causes the barrel to deform, since the weight of the machine gun goes exactly to the barrel. Accuracy goes to waste. Believe it or not, the equivalent of the PKK was created with us a LONG time ago. Don't flatter yourself. You are not the only one who can weight the rifle barrel and put it on the bipod.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Automatic_Rifle
Unlike the PKK, the bipod was not attached to the barrel. In contrast to the PKK, there were even 100 charging drum (snail) magazines in stock. This rifle was operated by the Canadian Army. It was tested in the United States, but due to the lack of a replaceable barrel, it was not accepted for service. A variant with a replaceable barrel was developed, but during testing it lost to the Belgian Minimi, which became the M249. Thanks to the tape feed and replaceable barrel, the M249 provides a much higher density of fire, and since the Belgians had enough brains not to attach the bipod directly to the barrel, accuracy does not suffer. We had to pay for this with a lot of weight. What can you do - there are no miracles.

[mister-red]

Believe it or not, the PKK is shit, unlike PKM. Without a replaceable barrel, the PKK is NOT ABLE to provide the required fire density.

There is a good video of the PKK wear test, though 7,62mm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do8ihmoF8JY
At least 300 rounds can be fired without problems, with breaks only for changing the magazine. In battle, this practically does not happen, in order to shoot the entire horn without a break, you must have a good reason. But even in this case, the barrel will be enough for this ammunition, and the machine gunner is unlikely to carry more in the horns.
The meaning of the PKK is that the barrel is longer than that of an assault rifle, and can shoot more accurately from the bipod. For other purposes, there is a PC.

[Baron pardus]

We tested the PKK. We came to the conclusion - crap. We did not understand why you gave up the RPD. According to our tests, the RPD showed greater accuracy, accuracy Plus belt feed. On the RPK, the barrel heats up even after firing a burst of 10 shots. And since the bipod is attached directly to the barrel, then the leverage is large and after a couple of dozen shots the point of impact shifts and everything hits HIGHER than the aim. We have created a light machine gun based on the M16. With a weighted barrel, and other gadgets and even 100 charging magazines. The bipod was placed on the bed, it does not touch the trunk. We came to the conclusion that a replaceable barrel is necessary. Therefore, at first they redesigned the M16LSW with a replaceable barrel and then it lost to the Belgian MINIMI, which our Army adopted as the M249. Yes, the M249 is heavier, but there are no miracles, either the machine gun is lighter, or the density of fire is higher.
PKM is an excellent machine, brilliant. no worse than the M240. But, as far as I remember, you don't have a PKM in every department.

[mister-red]

Quote: Baron Pardus

We tested the PKK.

Where?

The barrel heats up even after firing a burst of 10 rounds.

I fired from the PKK several times, I myself had an RPG. I shot several magazines without any problems without loss of accuracy. Did you shoot yourself or are you just retelling? Whose production was the PKK tested, Romanian or what? The dermis is complete.

But, as far as I remember, in each department you do not have a PKM.

Yes it is. When I served in the MP, and that was a very long time ago, our 4th platoon in the company was called the machine-gun and grenade launcher, in service with the PK and AGS. At the PKK branch. But the PC machine gunner could be assigned to the squad, if necessary.

[Baron pardus]

Tested in the USA. I did not shoot from the PKK. Where is he from in the US Army? I just read the reports of the tests of the SOVIET PKK captured by Israel from the Arabs. Plus what they got from the Germans when the USSR trite fled from Germany, throwing a bunch of weapons. The idea is this: a lengthened barrel does not give a significant increase in bullet speed. Absolute truth. The difference in initial velocity between the AKM (16.3 inches) and the PKK (22 inches barrel) is about 100 feet per second. That is, 33-35 meters per second. It's not about anything. It's not even 10%. The barrel heats up when firing, given that the bipod is attached to the tip of the BARREL (and not the casing as on the MG42), the barrel naturally carries the mass of the entire rifle (I apologize for the clumsy speech) and when heated, the harmonics of the barrel will change. the trunk will be SILENT and TEMPORARILY bend and this will TEMPORARILY change the point of impact.

[mister-red]

The barrel heats up when firing, given that the bipod is attached to the tip of the BARREL (and not the casing as on MG42)

Everything changes over time ...

[svp67]

Quote: Basarev

And we have, damn it, still grandfather's Kalash.

This is not the case with "Kalash". The search for a new main caliber is in progress. By the way, in the USSR, this work was also going on, and just before the collapse, comparative tests of cartridges and weapons created for them in calibers 6,5-mm, 6,75-mm and 7-mm were carried out. It's time to get these "daddies", blow off the dust and give results

[paul3390]

Why get it? The notorious Grendel is our x39 cartridge re-crimped to 6.5 .. As I understand it, you just need to re-barrel the AK under it .. Everything else can be left to your family.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

It makes no sense to simply re-barrel 5,45 under 6,5 or 6,8. The AK-74 is good precisely for its low recoil and the ability to adjust fire while firing at tracers. When switching to a larger caliber, one already wants to have a balanced automatic like the AE973 under 7,62x39. And if there is a ready-made cartridge of 7,62 caliber, then why something else?
.

[svp67]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

And if there is a ready-made cartridge of 7,62 caliber, then why something else?

The new cartridges are faster, low-impulse, and therefore more accurate and with better stability and armor penetration.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

If they are low-impulse, then at what expense do they promise to pierce all body armor?

[svp67]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

If they are low-impulse, then at what expense do they promise to pierce all body armor?

There are many options, in particular the use of an arrow-shaped bullet

[Wolf]

Exactly so !!! 12mm stop in time and don't waste money on empty.
You can easily do AEK (BEST AUTOMATIC EXTRACTOR IN THE WORLD) in cal. 6,5 and 6,75 or 6,8mm and see the difference !!! On account of the special forces.
Cal. 5,45 and 5,56 are hopelessly outdated and they are not for modern armies!

[I am not a robot]

when they fight with artillery, tanks and missiles, no matter what kind of fart you are armed

[Yrec]

Grandfather's Kalash is not a problem. The problem is old-fashioned ammunition. That 5,45, that 7,62 work well on targets not protected by PPE. That is, the Kalash is good against the "Papuan" armies. For example, our "Warrior 2" with plates holds an automatic bullet point-blank. And at a distance of 200 - 300 m, at which aimed fire is usually conducted, a fighter dressed in PPE is practically not affected by small arms. The mattresses have understood this and are beginning to switch to a power supply unit with an initial energy of a bullet of about 4000 J, since they know that the soldiers will no longer take their arcs from 5,56 of ours. Ours either keep secrets or don't calve. And it can happen as in the Crimean War: the British with threaded fittings, ours with a flint barrel.

[I am not a robot]

Warrior 2 plates hold SVD bullets from 10 meters, and how can 200 mm help at 6,8m

[Yrec]

The SVD's patron is not that of the grandfather's, but of the times of "Tsar Pea" (in the literal sense). Its energy is about 3500 J and the replacement of the 7,62x54 rifle cartridge is already ripe even before the automatic one. The fact that PPE is not taken point-blank with small arms simply screams about the crisis in the barrel + BP complex. The mattresses are trying to do something, and we roll out another Kalashoid under the same cartridge and rejoice.

[Genry]

Quote: Yrec

Its energy is about 3500 J and the replacement of the 7,62x54 rifle cartridge is already ripe even before the automatic one.

Energy 3500 determines (with the stiffness of a bullet) the possibility of penetrating a bulletproof vest.
What do you want to increase in the new cartridge?
Bullet weight (caliber), powder volume?
It turns out that you need to release Kalashnikov on .338LM?

[Yrec]

In my opinion, the cartridge should be about 6,5x50 with a long bullet, weighing about the same as a 7,62x54 bullet and an initial velocity of about 950 m / s. This will provide an initial energy of about 4000 J. The cartridge should become a single form factor for an automatic (in fact, an automatic rifle) / single machine gun / sniper rifle squad-platoon complex. For the "automatic" gunpowder hitch is a little less, the bullet is lighter. Something like this.

[Genry]

Quote: Yrec

the cartridge should be approximately 6,5x50 with a long bullet, weighing about the same as a 7,62x54 bullet and an initial velocity of about 950 m / s. This will provide an initial energy of about 4000 J.

I wonder how you are going to put more gunpowder in a small 6,5x50 case, with a longer bullet (which reduces the residual volume of the case) than in 7,62x54R. And the powder still needs to be added to increase the pressure in the barrel, to compensate for the decrease in the caliber of the bullet (a smaller cross-sectional area of ​​the bottom by 1,374 times - accordingly, a lower force of advance / acceleration).

[Yrec]

Everything will turn out fine, even using the technologies of the last century. A simple re-crimped NATO cartridge from 7,62x51 to 6,8X51 gives an energy of 3650 J at 900 m / s. Our cartridge 7,62x54 has an energy of 3500-4400 J, depending on the amount of powder and the weight of the bullet. Yes, throwing 4000 J for a fighter is a rather uncomfortable thing, not to mention a queue. But for this, special weapons must already be made, which mattresses do. I believe that the Kalashoid is outdated and a new weapon + cartridge is needed. Obsolescence will become critical in 10 years.

[Vadim237]

And what about the new American 6.8 mm muzzle energy?

[Baron pardus]

The 6.8 NSGW cartridge from Sig Sauer, aka 277 Fury, aka 6.8x51 has a muzzle energy of 3650 Joules. About the same as 7.62x54 (difference, EMNIP 1-2%). Only the bullet is smaller in diameter, with a higher ballistic coefficient and initial velocity

[Cowbra]

Quote: Yrec

Its energy is about 3500 J

6,8 x 43 mm Remington SPC

Bullet energy, J 2430

Quote: Yrec

Mattresses are trying to do something

To cut the budget ?!
The energy is higher than the other intermediate ones, well, he is one dog harder - and again we come to the problem - do you need ammunition or a rifle cartridge?

[Baron pardus]

I have no words. There was nothing left except the mat. Tirpets Uvirvavsya. Open your eyes. 6.8 SPC from REMINGTON and `6.8 NGSW from Tru Velocity and Sig Sauer are DIFFERENT, ABSOLUTELY DIFFERENT cartridges. The 6.8 SPC is an intermediate cartridge with a muzzle energy of 2300Joules. The 6.8 NGSW is a full-fledged RIFLE cartridge. With a 51mm long case, and a muzzle energy of 3650 Joules. Damn, well, you can read the original sources at least a little before you blurt out all sorts of nonsense? Just so you understand. 7.62x39 and 7.62x54 are NOT the same cartridge. Similarly, 6.8 SPC and `6.8 NGSW, be it from Sig Sauer, or from True Velocity it is DIFFERENT, damn it, DIFFERENT, HIMMELHERRGOTT, cartridges.
By the way, Tru Velocity cartridges with a plastic sleeve are lighter than conventional cartridges with a brass one. Sig Sauer cartridges are composite of several materials, also lighter than conventional brass.

[Roma 1977]

Much more important in the Crimean War was the fact that the British were with railways and steamers, and Russia transported ammunition to the Crimea on peasant bulls across the steppe.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Basarev

And we have, damn it, still grandfather's Kalash. And an aggressive reluctance to change. Will we find ourselves in the situation of the natives - with a bow against a machine gun?

The current American program to create a promising line of small arms for the army and other law enforcement agencies is the next stage in a long series of similar programs, rooted in the 80s of the last century (and even deeper - if you remember about SPIW). Result? All previous programs were successfully closed, the money was debited, and the army team continues to run with grandfather AR-kami.

[Alex777]

Quote: Alexey RA

All previous programs were successfully closed, the money was written off, and the army team continues to run around with their grandfather's ARs.

The States rushed out of Afghanistan and ran into China.
Now they can do what they have been planning for a long time.

[voyaka uh]

A serious advantage in battle is given not even by the caliber, but by the sights: optical, night.
And the latest novelties are a rangefinder on a personal weapon.
When, on one side, all soldiers have optics, and on the other, ordinary sights, the battle becomes unequal, all other factors being equal: the number of soldiers, training, etc.

[GAndr]

And in what way is the Kalashnikov obsolete? Why change what is the best in terms of the combination of characteristics, and for what?

[Roma 1977]

Yes, it is considered (figuratively) that the need to replace an existing sample makes sense only if the next sample in terms of the sum of its characteristics exceeds the previous one by one and a half times. What will exceed the Kalashnikov's indicators by one and a half times? Price?

[poquello]

Quote: Basarev

And we have, damn it, still grandfather's Kalash. And an aggressive reluctance to change. Will we find ourselves in the situation of the natives - with a bow against a machine gun?

we will find ourselves, we will find ourselves)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 7,62 is better?

[SVD68]

Quote: Basarev

Will we find ourselves in the situation of the natives - with a bow against a machine gun?

You are confusing. We have a machine gun (PKM). And the Americans make a superbow for Rambo.

[mister-red]

Quote: Basarev

And we have, damn it, still grandfather's Kalash. And an aggressive reluctance to change. Will we find ourselves in the situation of the natives - with a bow against a machine gun?

Actually, the main thing is the change of ammunition, the rifles themselves are a secondary matter.
Kalash moved from 7,62 to 5,45, which prevents redealt under 6,8? So far, only the absence of a patron

[Nafanya from the sofa]

Quote: Basarev

And we have, damn it, still grandfather's Kalash.

This is because the Americans still cannot do anything better or even equal to the Kalashnikov. So they specialize in advertising "breakfasts" and "I'll win everyone."

[MTZ 80]

Can they make high-precision scopes? Tiplovizor can?

[lucul]

The Joint Chiefs of Staff of the United States notes that "none of the body armor will protect against a bullet from NGSW weapons."

Russia also showed a bulletproof vest, which holds an armor-piercing bullet from the SVD at a distance of 10 meters)))

[Silver bullet]

Hush, hush, don't fire up the office! Let them broadcast. The question is, does this caramultuk also have a miracle device on the receiver to eliminate delays in firing?

[PROXOR]

Eoperst. Put it here. At least I'll look at this armor.

[Andrey Moskvin]

Hardly such an armor for constant wearing. Rather for assault groups. I think so.

[Alex_You]

The main thing is to withstand the tripe.

[poquello]

Quote: lucul

The Joint Chiefs of Staff of the United States notes that "none of the body armor will protect against a bullet from NGSW weapons."

Russia also showed a bulletproof vest, which holds an armor-piercing bullet from the SVD at a distance of 10 meters)))

) oh well, it says "none of the bulletproof vests will protect against a bullet from NGSW weapons" - it means it won't, garbage that the output is the same 4000j)))))))))

[PROXOR]

At the moment, it is known that these samples of promising weapons are designed for a 6,8 mm caliber. It is planned that this particular caliber will become the main one for the US Army due to "a number of its superior parameters, including parameters of long-range firing accuracy."

And exactly 6,8. In my opinion, they wanted the 6,5 * 38 Grendel cartridge. Here only if 6,8 * 43.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: PROXOR

And exactly 6,8. In my opinion they wanted a 6,5 * 38 Grendel cartridge. Here only if 6,8 * 43.

6.5x43 Grendel, too, does not provide significant advantages.
Therefore, the features of composite polymer sleeves are being investigated.
The transition to polymers will give a significant reduction in the cost of materials.

[PROXOR]

And not only. The entire polymer sleeve will be smaller than the brass sleeve.

[Alex777]

Quote: PROXOR

The entire polymer sleeve will be smaller than the brass sleeve.

The cartridge is 30% lighter.

[Nafanya from the sofa]

Quote: MTZ 80

Can they make high-precision scopes? Tip-imager can?

As soon as you learn to spell the word "thermal imager" correctly (from the word warmth), they will immediately tell you everything.

[MTZ 80]

Don't bother, this was a rhetorical question

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Nafanya from the couch

so at once everything to you and will tell.

Nafanya! You didn’t apply to the teacher of the Russian language and literature !?
Then, be so kind as to watch yourself, your beloved: try to write without mistakes ... Okay?

[Petro_tut]

Goodbye old lady M-16, who brought "so much democracy" to this world

[t-12]

General Dynamics advertisement. American soldiers shoot at Russian birches.

[pytar]

General Dynamics advertisement. American soldiers shoot at Russian birches.

Thank you, the video is interesting. Observed the behavior of the rifle under the ed. shooting. Impressed, does not stagger back and forth. Stands stable, well balanced! Consequently, the accuracy is high!

[Genry]

Stupid movie about nothing.

[poquello]

Quote: pytar

Observed the behavior of the rifle

in, my small one likes to watch advertising, which is not there)))))))))))))))))))))

[pytar]

in, my small one likes to watch advertising, which is not there

your fellow! I am sure that these videos were watched very carefully and in detail by the relevant Russian special departments ...

[saygon66]

- The recoil is not weak ... And, given the weight of an adult man somewhere between 85 and 90 kilograms, it is worth thinking - how will a lighter fighter be wagged? Especially when shooting from unstable positions.

[pytar]

A massive flame arrester is probably designed to reduce recoil. New cartridge, more powerful than the previous ones. With all this, the weapon looks stable in the vertical plane. Compact though! By the way, the video shows the model

General Dynamics / Beretta RM277 GD NGSW-R


And the photo below the headlines shows a competitor from Textron Systems for NGSW.


Sig Sauer also participates in the competition:


As stated in the article, the choice of an assault rifle and an automatic carbine will be made by the summer of 2022, it will be interesting which of these models will be chosen.

[Max PV]

"Fresh", in quotation marks, a legend, that's hard to believe. How many have already changed, but they have not left the AR-15. Somewhere every ten years they have another program of "weapons of the future", and, at best, it all ended with several thousand cut down to XM-8 OICW in the army. Even now, 120 thousand units in 8 years are not about any rearmament and there is no talk, this is not so much, just for the units directly participating in local wars. Somewhere 15-20% of the total needs of the armed forces, without mobilization. But all such programs in the course of implementation also tend to "dry up".

[yfast]

And I like the 7mm caliber, a beautiful flat figure, more than mattress mats, and you can get away from inches, you need to do this.

[Borisych]

The American police have no chance to survive - "This caliber has a number of better characteristics, including bullet accuracy, lethality and stability in flight - compared to 5,56 mm ammunition." And the mafia does not sleep.

[Alex777]

In the States, just for storing cartridges with a core, they immediately give 5 years.

[Baron pardus]

Yes, the laws are very strict. And I tell you that everyone who had such cartridges before they were banned, all of them were honestly brought to the police and handed over to "Mom KLANUS", YES :-)

[Roma 1977]

The situation with the calibers of the main small arms is slightly hayped, so to speak. What do the statistics of injuries tell us over a long period of time and from a variety of armed conflicts? Statistics say that most of the wounds in a real war are shrapnel. Standard firearms serve as defensive fire rather than primary weapons. Snipers - yes, they deal precisely with specific effective defeat. Machine gunners - yes, they are capable of hitting group targets at long range with a huge consumption of ammunition. But the overwhelming majority of ordinary shooters will use standard small arms at small and ultra-short distances, where the role of body armor is reduced to zero, because even a hit without penetration leads to very unpleasant consequences for the "battleship." Consequently, the need for massive rearmament with high-impulse calibers is slightly exaggerated. And it is enough for an average infantryman to have a splinterproof vest so as not to die on the very first march even before meeting the enemy. Heavy armor is needed only by sappers and machine gunners, God grant them health. You should not stupidly copy not the most successful solutions of overseas sawmills. This I am still silent about the financial aspect of re-equipping the entire army with new ammunition - this is monstrous money.

[Genry]

Quote: Roma-1977

But the overwhelming majority of ordinary shooters will use standard small arms at small and ultra-short distances, where the role of body armor is reduced to zero, because even a hit without penetration leads to very unpleasant consequences for the "battleship."

No no !!!
The shorter the distance, the greater the value of the body armor. Even the word appeared: "tanking" - that is. the most protected, in the closest combat. Let it fall - but alive, and the next one can fire more confidently and more accurately.

[DenVB]

If the Americans really massively switch to the new cartridge, then we will have to. I just hope that this time we will not reinvent bicycles, but simply copy their cartridge.

[Genry]

Quote: DenVB

we will not reinvent bicycles, but simply copy their cartridge.

They have already copied 7,62x51 and 8,6x70, and small-caliber ones are normal.

[DDZ57]

Quote: Genry

Have already copied 7,62x51 and 8,6x70,

They copied something, but what did you get as a result?
What about muzzle energy?
What about the accuracy?
What about the resource of the trunks?

[DDZ57]

Quote: DenVB

I just hope that this time we will not reinvent bicycles, but simply copy their cartridge.

Copy will fail.
Currently, not a single cartridge plant in the Russian Federation has technologies for manufacturing a polymer sleeve.
In the Russian Federation there is no polymer (and there is no technology for its manufacture) for the liner.
There is no powder for this cartridge in the Russian Federation. Etc.

[DenVB]

Quote: DDZ57

Currently, not a single cartridge plant in the Russian Federation has technologies for manufacturing a polymer sleeve.
In the Russian Federation there is no polymer (and there is no technology for its manufacture) for the liner.
There is no powder for this cartridge in the Russian Federation. Etc.

It will be necessary to master all this. I don’t think these tasks are unsolvable. Obviously simpler than 5nm chips. Nobody says that the transition to a new cartridge should occur by November 7 next year. Even the Americans themselves will move (if they are) for more than one year.

[DDZ57]

Quote: DenVB

It will be necessary to master all this. I don’t think these tasks are unsolvable.

To say so, you need to know the state of the cartridge industry in the Russian Federation and the availability of specialists for it.
Yes, the process of mass production of cartridges is simpler than the production of chips using the 5-nm process technology, but this is subject to the availability of high-quality components for these processes.
But in reality: in the Russian Federation there are no technologies of both high-quality modern cartridges and 5-nm chips, and there is no equipment for them. I don’t know about chips, but there are no specialists in polymer liners in the Russian Federation.
And in the next 5 years, a cartridge with a polymer sleeve will not appear in the Russian Federation.
In the United States, both military orders and a gigantic civilian market provide the movement of the rifle and its equipment. In addition: external supplies and military and civilian women.
The Russian Federation's cartridge factories supplied more to the United States than are sold in the Russian Federation for military and civilian service (at least this was the case until September of this year - before the sanctions in this industry). The USA chews on a huge amount of cartridges from all over the world.
China also carries out large supplies there, the cartridge factories of China are no longer compared with the Russian ones (the Chinese brass cartridge case for rifled cartridges is also supplied to the Russian Federation).
The US market is the highest priority in the world.
The introduction of new "fashionable" ammunition into circulation significantly reduces the need for old ones.
And besides, the need for old cartridges made in the USSR has noticeably decreased in the world.
And where it will lead - draw your own conclusions.

[DenVB]

Quote: DDZ57

And in the next 5 years, a cartridge with a polymer sleeve will not appear in the Russian Federation.

Let it appear in 5 years. As I said, there is no particular rush here.

And if we cannot make such cartridges in principle, then we can not bother with anything else. A country that is not even capable of organizing the production of modern cartridges has no prospects in this world. We drain the water, dry the oars.

[DDZ57]

Quote: DenVB

Let it appear in 5 years. As I said, there is no particular rush here.

The point is not only in haste, but in what they will go to during these 5 years, what they will find during this time and what they will have in these 5 years, tk. the road is mastered by the one who is walking, and not lying and dreaming about something and speaking loud speeches.

[DenVB]

Quote: DDZ57

where will they go in these 5 years, what will they find during this time and what they will have in these 5 years

Well, you don't need to panic yet. The article also says:

eight-year contract for the production of 120 thousand rifles, carbines and machine guns

Eight years - only for the "first stage" of rearmament.

[DDZ57]

Quote: DenVB

Eight years - only for the "first stage" of rearmament.

The point is that the weapon of the 8th year can turn out to be completely different in terms of capabilities compared to the weapon of the 1st year. The development of electronics makes it possible to draw such conclusions.
It is very difficult to even imagine where they will go in 8 years.
See how phones change. And how their opportunities grow.

[I am not a robot]

they have not yet adopted this cartridge, stop throwing hats
otherwise they threw it in, and then fled from Vietnam dropping poop

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

they have not yet adopted this cartridge, stop throwing hats
otherwise they threw it in, and then fled from Vietnam dropping poop

Cartridges and systems were not accepted for service.
But two cartridges and weapons (bolt and semi-automatic rifles) have been in civilian circulation for several years: they are used by both shooters and hunters. They shoot at targets at a distance of 1 km or more. And we are very satisfied.
Name something similar from the Russian Federation, we take into account the fact that Accuracy, ..... Coal, etc. have been sawing for 20 years, and the result is where (how many more years will it reach the 2000 level of the Finnish Lapua).
And regarding Vietnam (present), let's see which shore it will sail and what the Russian Federation can offer it. We take into account the fact that he preferred the machines from Israel.
I can add: about Afghanistan, from which the United States left, throwing billions of weapons there.
You can think about where it will flow and where it will be applied. Look who Afghanistan borders on and whose border guards are there (maybe no longer, but only advise) and whose base is there. Guess the first time where the wounded and coffins will begin to arrive.

[I am not a robot]

there were a lot of weapons in afghanistan before the occupation, so nothing has changed
what's the difference where vietnam will sail, I mentioned him due to the fact that the Americans wanted to throw their hats over, and ran away with wet pants

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

there was a bunch of weapons in afghanistan and before the occupation,

A pile of old weapons, not as big as they are now.
Now almost purposefully left, under the guise of abandoned, for several tens of billions of dollars of ammunition, weapons, military and special equipment. And the vector of application of all this will be directed to the north.
And these weapons systems are on a par with the Russian ones, and maybe even higher.

Quote: Janerobot

what's the difference where vietnam will sail

In this there is a very big difference: Vietnam has left the Russian arms market.

Quote: Janerobot

the Americans wanted to cover them with hats, but ran away with wet pants

.
I do not defend the Americans both in Vietnam and Afghanistan.
According to the book: "The experience of military operations in ..." I had to learn.
Count the US losses in Vietnam and Afghanistan. And compare them with the Soviet ones.
Calculate how much the United States took out Vietnamese from Vietnam.
Yes, in Afghanistan, the United States disgraced itself, but still evacuated many Afghans and the evacuation continues to this day.
The USSR, and later the Russian Federation, betrayed and abandoned their protégé Nabjibullah, who and his brother were pulled out of the UN mission in Kabul and, after humiliation, were hanged by a steel wire loop at a fortified checkpoint at the gates of the presidential palace.
The USSR, and later the Russian Federation, betrayed and abandoned the Afghan cosmonaut Abdul Ahad Momand, who flew on the Soyuz TM-6 with Soviet cosmonauts Vladimir Lyakhov and Valery Polyakov.
The reason for the large-scale US military campaign against the Viet Cong was a series of clashes in the Gulf of Tonkin, the reason for the introduction of US troops into Afghanistan was the terrorist attack in the "twins".
Ask who invited the Soviet troops to Afghanistan, and what these troops did to the "inviter".

[I am not a robot]

okay, a genius is good, and he points out as a general and scientists ask him
in vietnam and afghanistan, the Americans lost almost 70000 people, the USSR-13000

[DDZ57]

Watch the video about the Americans:

- "Conversation between Valery Nightingale and Gary Tabakh, a retired US Navy officer"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVvTXmpL6Sk

Maybe something will reach after watching.

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

in vietnam and afghanistan, the Americans lost almost 70000 people, the USSR-13000

And about the geniuses from the Russian Federation: how much did these geniuses begged in Chechnya in total for all the time?

[Baron pardus]

By the way, Cartridge 277 Fury (this is the 6.8x51 Sig Sauer), it is NOT with a plastic sleeve. So Russia can easily copy this cartridge if needed.

[DDZ57]

Quote: Baron Pardus

So Russia can easily copy this cartridge if needed.

It will not be able to copy, it was written about it above, tk. in RF:
a) there are no competent copiers left;
b) there is no high-quality brass;
c) there is no technology for mass production of a sleeve from a bar stock;
d) there is no required powder for such a cartridge (R-551,58 MPa, characteristics (40,6 cm barrel):
- accelerates a 9,07 g bullet to 899,1 m / s and develops an energy of 3666 J with a ballistic coefficient according to G1 - .508
- accelerates an 8,74 g bullet to 914,4 m / s and develops an energy of 3653 J with a ballistic coefficient according to G1 - .488;
e) there is no mass capsule for such a cartridge.
f) there are no technologies for mass production of high-quality elements for a bullet (there are no high-quality materials for this), respectively, there is no high-quality bullet;
g) serial barrel steels at these pressures will not provide the required barrel resource.
.308win and .339LM have been copying for 20 years, but they cannot reach NATO parameters.
The composite hybrid sleeve is space for the RF.
And the success of the Russian Federation in space is known to everyone.

[DDZ57]

The composite hybrid sleeve of the 277 Fury cartridge (6.8x51 Sig Sauer) does not increase the wearable ammunition capacity compared to the polymer sleeve.

[DDZ57]

And if revived the bullets of these cartridges to ensure a high score. to-that is described by the exponential formula or the Karman curve or C-X or another complex formula, or is performed as a hybrid, and is not executed along an arc of a circle, then modern copyists of the Russian Federation will fall into a stupor.

[I am not a robot]

you understand that you are talking some kind of nonsense, or you are at work

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

you understand that you are talking some kind of nonsense, or you are at work

I'm not at work, I'm retired.
If you are such a patriot and competent, then tell me which of the above profiles will provide a minimum of Cx, and which one will give an increase in mass with a decrease in Cx. And what is CX in three cases.

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

you understand that you are talking some kind of nonsense,

With regard to delirium, choose whose words to answer you:
- Peter I;
- Pavlova I;
- Bunina I.
But only then do not be offended at me, tk. it was not me who said it, I will only quote the great representative of the Russian nation.

[I am not a robot]

and how do you know the state of the cartridge industry in the Russian Federation and the availability of specialists for it, you are not even from Russia and at the same time a Russophobe, because of this your comments are not credible

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

and how do you know the state of the cartridge industry in the Russian Federation and the availability of specialists for it, you are not even from Russia and at the same time a Russophobe, because of this your comments are not credible

I regularly visit 2 factories, see and talk.

I write a comment only for people with high moral and ethical foundations.
I am not responsible for any misinterpretation.
I clean the braces.

[I am not a robot]

and at the same time carry some kind of nonsense,

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

and at the same time carry some kind of nonsense,

I forgot to add that I visit the universities of St. Petersburg, Moscow and Novosibirsk, where they cook ...........
I read publications in the press about E. Bakov (chiefmilkmaid"Rostec) and, accordingly, I can conclude that they can cut in Klimovsk. Judging by the comments here in the topic, there is only one person who used these ammunition and weapons and who lives in the USA. He correctly hooked the bulk: the Chukchi are not readers, the Chukchi writers.

[I am not a robot]

well done, what are you, and how your being helps you to know something about military developments of the military-industrial complex.
you are a Russophobe, so you will not see anything good in Russia, even though you will visit all factories and universities,

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

you are a Russophobe, so you will not see anything good in Russia, even though you will visit all factories and universities,

Well, I'm a Russophobe. But I am "a little" literate in a certain area and for the time being I can still understand a little in "something" and comment on something a little. And while I still have literate "Mohicans" to whom I can turn to and they will prompt and help me, tk. on certain questions they turn to me and I give them advice and help.
So the "p..rduns" have a funny "Interests Circle".
Girlfriend dementia does not come yet, and friends A and P do not come either.
And about the technical level of the Russian Federation or what Russian experts say. Performed by the military observer Gazeta.Ru, loyal to the regime, Mikhail Khodarenko:
“The USA is ahead of us forever. We don’t even understand what they are doing ”read in
- The project of the American sixth generation fighter has puzzled Russian experts - Gazeta.Ru (gazeta.ru) - https://www.gazeta.ru/army/2021/09/08/13964954.shtml.
An article about aircraft of the 6th generation, but in other areas one to one, there is no miracle and women do not give birth.

[I am not a robot]

the fact that you are a Russophobe leads to the fact that you cannot see something good in Russia, and you read only those articles that say that everything is bad in Russia
there is no 6th generation fighter even in projects, how can it be confusing
that is, people who signed the secret, discuss military projects with you and you have megalomania (they turn to me and I suggest and help them)

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

discussing military projects with you and you have megalomania (they turn to me and I suggest and help them)

Megalomania is yours and I do not label anyone and I do not attribute to anyone what they did not say or did.
And so it already happened in the USSR, i.e. : I have not read this book, but I know that it is bad.
Previously, they worked for ten foreign intelligence services and dug a tunnel from Muhosk to Britain or Japan, etc.
How it all ended and what it led to everyone already knows ..
You have already been told about the Chukchi, so you need to read more, not write.
I read many different things and therefore I can give different examples, but only in a certain area where I know something.
And as a patriot, your hand probably reaches for the mop handle.
But all this does not apply to the article under discussion, that is, to the discussion of the promising line of NGSW weapons in the United States. I expressed my point of view, you are engaged in a patriotic topic and throwing on the fan.

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

you can't see something good in Russia

If I do not see something good in the state of the rifle in the Russian Federation, or rather, that there are no weapons and ammunition of the level of the NGSW program in the Russian Federation and will not be available in the near future, and that this can lead to serious consequences. I am writing about this. I do not divulge any military secrets and I do not force any of my acquaintances to do so. And besides, we are not allowed to them. Everything is in open sources.
Here, in the topic about weapons under the NGSW program, he told a lot Baron Pardus (Dmitry) from the USA, he used it. And he expressed his reasoned opinion about him.
If you can say something on the topic, then do it.
Maybe you can wipe my blackened glasses or pierce my sealed ears, try to see if you can. And I will see something that I didn’t see or I’ll hear something that I didn’t hear, what I didn’t read about, or I didn’t come across this information and if I was wrong, then I will apologize and change my mind. But with arguments, links, etc.
Those. engage in discussion of the topic, rather than hanging labels, obsёr, etc.
And if you know or see what is good on the topic under discussion, then name it yourself, but on the topic.
And I don't see anything yet. Now there is only one picture in the Russian Federation, and it is drawn by V. Osechkin - this is an all-Russian still life with a "mop handle in a zh..pe".

[From Germany]

I remembered a Soviet cartoon about the Chinese (Barefoot Scientist). There, one and the same person was selling spears and shields in the market with the words: "Spears that can pierce any shields" and then "shields that can not pierce any spears."
In my opinion, this is just an advertising lie.

[Nexcom]

And the next statement will be amers-developed material and body armor itself which can not penetrate any small ammunition.
(including super duper 6.8 which penetrates all body armor )

[frols]

And how many grandmothers can be mastered on rearmament, on new weapons and a new cartridge.

[Nexcom]

You can cut to a fig. Americans can do it. They are preparing another wunderwaffe again. No, maybe it really will turn out as advertised ...

ZY the dimension of the wunderwafle is what - 6.8 by how much? At 45? At 51 ??? It's not just the caliber - for example, there are 9x17, 9x18, 9x19, 9x20, 9x21 ..... and they are all different in characteristics. And their purpose is different. In the article, it seems like the dimension was not indicated

Shl, what new weapon is there? There are not so many schematic diagrams of the kinematics of the shutter groups, there are many variations of their performance. Therefore, most likely the Americans will re-barrel under a new cartridge and adapt some of the schemes they already use.

[Avior]

... 6,8 x 43 mm Remington SPC (special purpose cartridge)

[Nexcom]

Thanks you.

[Baron pardus]

Shig has a 6.8 NGSW cartridge that is 6.8x51. True Velocity 6.8 NGSW is a little shorter, but extractors and gates from 7.62x51 work with it. Tested on both M110 and M240.

[Observer2014]

It's fun to read different. With different opinions. But I have not seen anything simpler and better than the Kalashnikov system. Nothing ... Moreover, in the foreseeable future I do not see anything better and more reliable to send a bullet at the target than a Kalashnikov assault rifle.
We are waiting for weapons on other physical principles.

[Nexcom]

Yes, the real breakthrough will be after the appearance of weapons on other physical principles. Here I completely agree with you.

[Roma 1977]

Said A - say B! Kalashnikov in what caliber and modifications do you like?

[Nexcom]

It depends on what tasks and goals. There is no universal weapon

[Roma 1977]

I mean, as the main weapon of the infantryman. Something like the 103rd Kalash.

[Nexcom]

I would prefer 7.62x39 in modern reincarnation. But these are my personal preferences, and I am not an infantryman and they have never been in the distant 89-91

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Nexcom

I would prefer 7.62x39 in modern reincarnation. But these are my personal preferences, and I am not an infantryman and they have never been in the distant 89-91

I had to use both 7,62x39 (+ excellent power, - high recoil, - low muzzle velocity) and 5,45x39 (+ excellent ballistics, + almost no recoil, which allows you to quickly maneuver with single fire, - a light bullet is highly susceptible to wind impact at long distances and quickly loses speed due to its low mass).
To a flat trajectory 5,45x39, but a heavier bullet and more power - there would be no price!
6.8x43 would be very interesting for trained shooters.

[Nexcom]

I've tried both too. The feeling of shooting is as you describe. Cons too.

[Baron pardus]

6.5 Grendel, 224 Valkyries. 6.8SPC.

[oleg2016.sever]

Well, Russia already has a cartridge created in the Union 6x49, for AK it is powerful, but for "KORD" that's it. There is something to fend off, there would be a desire and opportunity.

[Freedim]

For combined arms weapons, in addition to tactical characteristics, reliability, unpretentiousness, convenience + efficiency of field service and price are important. The more precise and complex the device is, the more all of the above goes to minus. It will be amusing if every soldier armed with NGSW needs a mechanical engineer to maintain and care for the newfangled barrel.

[saygon66]

- Has the history of the "bullet-armor" struggle completed? If the armor does not save, there is no need to wear it ... And again the one with the longer-range fitting wins?

[whitesnow]

If you steal a bun, you go to jail. Steal the railroad, become a senator. Mark Twain.
Years go by, people don't change.
Will pierce any body armor. By what means?

[Baron pardus]

And due to the high kinetic energy, due to the smaller cross section, due to the steel tip.

[KSVK]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Believe it or not, the equivalent of the PKK was created with us a LONG time ago. Don't flatter yourself. You are not the only one who can weight the rifle barrel and put it on the bipod.

Yes Yes Yes. Only with the company machine gun it has not worked out so far. And the big one is using the designs of Browning's grandfather, the century before last.

Quote: Baron Pardus

Thanks to the tape feed and replaceable barrel, the M249 provides a much higher density of fire, and since the Belgians had enough brains not to attach the bipod directly to the barrel, accuracy does not suffer.

You shouldn't have dragged this bastard here. SAW is anything but a machine gun. With a caliber of 5,56, it is not even funny to have a weight like that of a PKM, while not even coming close to it in terms of performance characteristics. And as for the bipod, it's how you look. Look at the PEP. And in it, the accuracy in comparison with the PKM is increased by 1,7 times when firing from the bipod. And the accuracy for a machine gun has slightly different absolute values ​​than for a sniper rifle.

PS And about the new ammunition, my special IMHO:
The Americans are again stepping on the same rake that they stepped on by “cutting off” 30-06 and getting 308, which they wanted to make intermediate.
6,8 * 51 has excess power. And how will the replacement of the 308 go, but is it worth loot to saw to fence a garden? Not obvious. And it will not replace 5,56 with a guarantee. A universal cartridge could be obtained from 6,5 * 47 Lapuy, well, or a variant with a telescope. The penetration of the armor is more related to the design of the bullet, and yes, I would look at the condition of a fighter who received a bullet of 3,5 kJ.

[Baron pardus]

Yes, Ma Duce is an old man. Only nothing much better has been done so far. Nowhere. M249 it occupies a niche of the PKK, surpassing it in density of fire, paying for it with weight. And the M240 is even heavier.
6.8X51 does not have excess power. In view of equipping our army with high-quality night vision devices and optics, we can start a battle at longer distances, corny not letting the enemy get closer. You know, more than once, not twice, and not even 5 I have been in situations where our patrol or even a convoy comes under fire from the enemy, who uses something like K98, or Lee Enfield, with ARVs (there were also) or DP. And we, nicherta, can not do them. Neither our M4, nor M249 simply can reach them with confidence. Rather, they get it out, only walls, fences, and other obstacles from 400-500 meters do not break through. And if from our side only 2-3 machine guns on unarmored Humvees can work at this distance. 1-2 machine guns and 5-6 shooters work on their side. Our generals put forward such demands for a reason. And if during the beginning of the Cold War, neither the USSR nor the United States had troops saturated with optics and collimators (and bulletproof vests), and 308 really could seem excessively powerful (many even then said that avoiding 7.62x51 was stupid), now it is clear that the skeptics were right. Moreover, in our army and in the marines, infantrymen are trained to shoot just single ones, saving shooting in automatic mode for emergency situations. 6.8x51 will allow you to get rid of both 5.56NATO and 7.62NATO. Cheaper and easier to procure. The squad will have two 6.8x51 machine guns, the rest of the infantry will be armed with rifles in the same caliber. Either self-loading, or, after installing impressive muzzle brakes, with variable fire modes.
As for the condition of the fighter who received 3.5 Kilojoule, it will be similar to the condition of the fighter into which a bullet from M1 Garand or from SVT-40 flew in. The energy is similar.

[Klingon]

You think in terms of WWI trench warfare. Where will you keep out of the urban development? Babakh will emerge from the sewer hatch and shoot you in the back from your grandfather's sawn-off shotgun, will your optics help you a lot?

[Baron pardus]

Do you think I wrote the performance characteristics for the new weapon? You flatter me. Written by our generals based on the experience of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. What you describe is nonsense. "Comes out of the sewer", and "shooting in the back" will probably drain himself into the toilet so that he is not caught, right? Shouting "Allah Akbar, I have foreseen everything", right?

[Andrey Mansurov]

Well, yes. It is possible. Break through the armor. Only now you have to get there.

[Siegfried]

Russia needs to first purchase large-scale collimator sights and nightlights for each soldier. Then the difference in caliber, even if 6,8 gives something there, will not be significant. Now, if the Americans come out with their night lights and NGSW, which will be with optics and a computer, against our "naked" Kalash with a front sight, then whatever you may say, it will not turn out very well ... collimators and night lights are needed! At least for the masses. And so rivet more warriors. In general, the Kalash is not convenient for the fact that lying down to shoot from him is somehow not shit because of the store. Can you come up with a thicker store, but shorter than now?

[Nexcom]

There are four-row stores of a new design, 60 chargers. But there, with the filing, not everything becomes well after you drop it a couple of times. A standard 30-charger two-row banana mag doesn't care. Theoretically, you can probably make 4 rows shorter, for example, a 30-40 charger, but the question of the reliability of the supply still remains ...
As a matter of fact, you are right, lying down with a standard banana mag is not very convenient to shoot, except from a trench, placing a "banana" inside it.

[Kapkan]

Judging by the comments - here is "one actor's theater".
But it's fun to read ...
In essence, I have the following to say: higher caliber, higher recoil. If this really forces them to abandon automatic fire for the sake of some precision (as always), they will die.
A cloud of bullets (both stray and three in size) in response either will not let you stick out for one but ttttooochechnest democratic shot ala kriskile, or it will kill you.
Therefore, as always, everything is decided somewhere in the distance 7.62x54 cookie (or three ... or five. )) And then, as they say - I love, kiss, shake hands.)

For sim everything.
PS But, of course, of course, it is very important to understand the whole three-studio of American calibers.

[Diverxnumx]

The discussion somehow bypassed the issue of barrel survivability for the new caliber. Given the pressure of a tank gun and a rather large muzzle velocity, I suppose that for every pair of thousands of new cartridges in the kit, a replaceable barrel should be attached)).

[riwas]

"Not a single bulletproof vest will protect against it": the United States called the timing of the selection of a promising line of NGSW weapons to replace the M4 and M16

In the mountains, yes. A friend told me. A dushman shoots from an old carbine, but you can't get it out of a 5,45-mm one. For close combat, the power is too high, you can't shoot in bursts. We also need additional small and relatively light weapons for combat in buildings, in trenches, etc.

[Konnick]

We also need additional small and relatively light weapons for combat in buildings, in trenches, etc.

I also think the time of "assault" rifles and machine guns has passed. The infantryman must fight more as a target scout for more powerful weapons. In a squad or group of fighters, for example, there should be three snipers with rifles and three second numbers with submachine guns for possible close combat. Three self-loading rifles can also stop the enemy's attack as one machine gun, only less ammunition is needed and the main advantage is to detect the position of the machine gunner, and this is a priority for destruction, much easier than a soldier with a sniper weapon. Modern production may well ensure the saturation of units with high-precision and long-range weapons, especially now they no longer go into attacks in a chain, it is not that time. Everything is easier to carry instead of machine guns with their ammunition.

[Baron pardus]

We had the same thing. I already wrote here about 10 times. We go on patrol or convoy (as a rule, they fired at small ones, since strikers and Bradleys were traveling with large convoys). And these are sandy N, they start shooting at us. From a distance of 400-500 meters. Not very accurately, according to the principle, maybe we will hit someone, maybe we will break something. They shoot from both PKMs and DP27, even from BRENs. It depends. In the neighboring brigade, after such an ambush, even the guys dragged Lewis. Babays in Afghanistan have a lot of antiques. By the way, you don't need to laugh. Who got a bullet from an "outdated" Enfield will not laugh. Well, from magazine rifles like there K98 or Lee Enfield or Mosinka. And we can't get them corny. Even if we get our 5.56, even Green Tips do not break through walls, stone fences, and just stones. If there are Ma duses on the Humvee, it is good for the enemy of the KHANA, the Ma duses will simply crush them. And if there are M240 or M60 on the Humvee (and there were also them), then they get 1-2 machine guns + rifles, and we just have 1-3 M4 and M16 machine guns shoot for show, maybe we will force them to bend down and stop shooting. They simply manage to leave, and chase them headlong - you can easily run into mines and an ambush. And calling the turntables every time is impossible.

[DDZ57]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Only the bullet is smaller in diameter, with a higher ballistic coefficient and initial velocity

I will add a little: and, accordingly, with a greater lateral load, which has a positive effect on armor penetration.

[Girkin]

I have read before that Americans are alarmed that their standard rounds do not always penetrate the latest Russian and Chinese body armor. Americans do everything logically. It is interesting to know the results of firing a new cartridge on body armor.

[agond]

It is better to often hit from small calibers than rarely from large ones, the low-impulse cartridge 5.45x39 is definitely better suited for "frequent hits" than any other (less low-impulse), an increase in the power of a cartridge in small arms is associated with an increase in the dispersion diameter and this axiom cannot be canceled, but hitting two bullets 5.45 can stop no worse than hitting one 7.62, so if we do not set the task of switching to single shooting as it was in the First World War, then we do not need an increase in caliber, but we need to improve the cartridge 5.45x39, weapons to it, improvement aiming systems including target recognition systems

[I am not a robot]

where they fought the enemy in the latest Russian and Chinese body armor

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

[quote] Another interesting weapon chambered for this cartridge. Dyagterev light machine gun (RPD) mod. 1944 caliber ... 6.8 mm Remington SPC. This light machine gun, which was originally developed for an intermediate cartridge of 7,62 × 39 mm (the standard cartridge of the Kalashnikov assault rifle), came to America by accident. One commercial firm bought all the stocks of this machine gun in Poland and was going to sell it only to collectors. However, someone thought of putting this machine gun in a military competition, which are held regularly in the United States. After thoroughly checking the old Soviet weapon, one of the Pentagon weapons experts recognized it as "the best light machine gun that has ever fallen into my hands."
Source: https://www.shkolazhizni.ru/law/articles/70653/
In DS Arms, rework
[Quote] Having retained the receiver with the main mechanisms, the Americans equipped the RPD with a new shortened barrel with longitudinal valleys for its lighter weight and better cooling, as well as an effective flame arrester. The old wooden butt and pistol grip were replaced with more comfortable and lightweight plastic (butt - telescopic). The new aluminum handguard with Picatinny rails allows the installation of optical or collimator sights, as well as the Grip-pod assault handle with an integrated bipod, which replaces the standard RPD bipod. The heavy and not very comfortable drum container for the tape was replaced by a lighter soft (made of synthetic fabric), in which the tape rattles less when moving.
By replacing the barrel, the machine gun can be powered by intermediate cartridges 6,8x43 Remington SPC.
With regard to the modernization of the RPD machine gun, the transition to the 6,8 Remington SPC cartridge gives a noticeable gain in ballistic properties. These cartridges have almost the same recoil impulse: 5.8 kgm / s for the 6,8 Remington SPC versus 5,9 kgm / s for the 7,62 mm cartridge of the 1943 model with similar muzzle energy values ​​(2330 and 2190 J, respectively - the difference is less ten%). However, due to the smaller caliber and higher initial velocity of the bullet, the difference in its energy at a distance of 10 meters is already about 500% in favor of the American cartridge (40 J for 750 mm versus 6,8 J for 480x7,62). At 39 meters, this difference decreases, but, nevertheless, it is 1000% in favor of the American (22 and 292 J, respectively). The time of flight of a bullet at a range of 228 meters, which is practically the maximum for this weapon, differs by half a second, again in favor of a smaller caliber cartridge (1000 versus 2,28 seconds). In general, this means a significant increase in the probability of hitting a target at all firing ranges from a light machine gun when switching to a reduced caliber of 2,8 mm. If we add to this the increased terminal (lethal) effect of the bullet of the new cartridge due to the effect of energetic somersault in its design and configuration, when it hits soft tissues and the better penetrating ability due to the increased lateral load, then the advantages of such modernization become even more obvious. / quote]
http://alternathistory.com/rpd-po-amerikanski/

Ammunition caliber Bullet weight, g Bullet kinetic energy, J, at a distance, m
0 100 200 300 400 500
7,62×39 mm 8,1 2075 1530 1106 791 573 440
5,45×39 mm 3,42 1295 959 695 493 344 243
5,56×45 mm 4 1758 1368 1050 794 589 433
6,8×43 mm 7,45 2430 1953 1552 1219 948 734

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

I didn't shoot the 7,62x39mm for accuracy, but Mark reported the same accuracy with this caliber. The effective range of the RPD 6,8x43 mm carbine from the DSA is almost double that of the 7,62x39 mm model. This will give the already proven weapon opportunities far beyond expectations, but that's not all.

The modified DSA feed chute and standard implement belt links are compatible not only with 7,62x39mm and 6,8 SPC ammunition, but also 6,5 Grendel.

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/ds-arms-rpd/

[Klingon]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Danke, Mein Herr

What kind of archaism is this? This is the time of King Frederick
Nobody says that now

[Baron pardus]

Ich Melde Gehorsam, Mein Herr, this is actually a quote from Schweik. Yes, and I'm thinking about joining a group of reenactors in the north of Wisconsin, who will be engaged in the Reconstruction of the Prussian Black Hussars (It was the time of Frederick), if of course they gather enough people. So I'm trying to fit.

I work at a VA hospital. We have one surgeon. The German is already elderly, he is 72 years old, but he is still operating, and very well. He speaks German fluently, moreover, when he gets annoyed, he has a German accent. He himself is a typical German. Lean, gray-eyed, short gray hair. Well, he told me once and said, "So, write down all the X-rays of such and such a patient and GIVE ME IN HANDS, otherwise if you just bring it to the surgery, they will sow it again. Will you bring it in and give it to me, understand?" I nod, they say, I understand, I suppress the desire to bark "Jawohl, Herr Major". I make a disc, come to his office, knock on the door, go in and say "Ich Melde Gehorsam, Herr Major - here they say the disc that you asked to give you personally." He was laughing so hard. They say that I made him happy, and so he hasn't laughed for a couple of weeks. He asked how I knew this. I answer that they say there is a book "The Brave Soldier Schweik". And in this book, some German phrases are not translated into Russian, namely in the text in German.

[Klingon]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Do you think I wrote the performance characteristics for the new weapon? You flatter me. Written by our generals based on the experience of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. What you describe is nonsense. "Comes out of the sewer", and "shooting in the back" will probably drain himself into the toilet so that he is not caught, right? Shouting "Allah Akbar, I have foreseen everything", right?

We recently observed the experience of the "war in Afghanistan" yes, we faded away so quickly leaving our allies ... The USSR had the experience of the war in Afghanistan and only