The myth of the Swedish Vikings-lords who created the Russian state

222

Ilya Glazunov. Grandchildren Gostomysl: Rurik, Truvor, Sineus

The victory of the Russophobic theory of Normanism


If in pre-revolutionary and Soviet times the Normanists and anti-Normanists argued with each other, putting forward more and more new arguments, then in liberal Russia the Westernizers somehow immediately prevailed. In the 1990s, people came to power in Russia who represented "universal" and "common European" values ​​and interests. And the dispute between Normanists and anti-Normanists ended immediately at the political level. The advisers instructed in the West decided the dispute in favor of the Norman theory, according to which the Scandinavian Germans (Normans) brought civilization and statehood to the Slavic Russian lands. Allegedly, all the first "Russian" princes (Rurik, Oleg and Igor) were Normans who conquered the "wild" Slavic tribes and created Novgorod and Kievan Rus - the Old Russian state.

As is known history the winners write. The West prevailed over Russia in 1991 by winning World War III and began rewriting history to its advantage.



The most striking example is the history of the Second World War. Back in the 1980s, Russians were the winners, liberators of Europe from fascism. But already in the 1990s and 2000s, they were transferred to the category of "occupiers" and "rapists", the same invaders as the Nazis, or even worse.

Other pages of the history of Russia are rewritten according to a similar scheme, and especially the most significant, sacred ones, on which the historical consciousness of Russians is based.

So, literally in a few years, the history of Kievan Rus' was taken away from us, attributing it to “Ukraine-Rus” - a historical chimera created in the interests of the West. Torn away from us hundreds of years of history, a significant part of a single Russian superethnos (Ukrainians-Little Russians) and significant historical Russian territories with our ancient cities, the ancient capital of Kiev. Oleg the Prophet, Svyatoslav the Brave, and all the Kiev princes are taken away from the Russians. Russians are declared "distant relatives" of those ancient Russian-Rus. They say that their true descendants remained only in Ukraine. And today's "Muscovites" are a mixture of Slavs, Finno-Ugrians and Mongols.

That is, the old theories of the Polish lords (with the blessing of the Vatican) and the Austrian masters, who two or three centuries ago tried to tear away Little Russia-Russia (Ukraine) from a united Russia, are being adopted. To create a new "Ukrainian nation" and thereby play the Russians against the Russians for the joy of the West.

Another powerful blow is the victory of Normanism.

Gradually and at first imperceptibly, but thoroughly and firmly in many new editions of textbooks, reference books, encyclopedias, the dispute was resolved in favor of Western Europe and the Normanists. They began to talk about the Slavic theory as about a historical half-forgotten anecdote. They say that during tsarism and Soviet totalitarianism there was such a point of view imposed by ideology. On the whole, anti-Normanism is supposedly the legacy of totalitarianism, communist propaganda and Great Russian chauvinism.
Norman theory began to prevail in works of art as well. For example, the 2016 Russian film Viking, which has become one of the most expensive projects in the history of Russian cinema.

In children's encyclopedias, often translated, they began to write about the brave Scandinavian sailors, the Vikings, who allegedly discovered new lands, brought civilization and culture to the savages. We agreed that the very name of the ethnonym "Rus" began to be traced back to the Scandinavian word "rоþsmenn" or "rоþskarlar" - "rowers, sailors". And clever Finns, having found out about it, began to call this word "ruotsi". And this word was already borrowed by the Slavs. As a result, the word "rus", which at first meant only sailors-Normans, allegedly came into the Russian language from the Old Norse language, and then gradually "passed" from the Norman elite to the entire Slavic people.

Are the Swedes - the founders of Russia


It turns out that the "wild and foolish" Slavs-Slovenia, mired in strife, having heard from their Finnish neighbors about rowers - "Ruotsi", brave and dashing Swedish (Scandinavian) warriors, called on them to rule, collect tribute and punish for crimes ... At the same time, they called themselves a strange word of unknown origin. Due to illiteracy and simplicity, they distorted a foreign word and became Russian, and the country was nicknamed Rus.

Who here suffers from stupidity - "wild Slovenia" or compilers of such textbooks, reference books and encyclopedias?

The diagnosis is clear. Obviously, this is not even idiocy, which is being introduced to schoolchildren, a "black myth", a historical sabotage in order to turn Russian-Russians into Ivanov, who do not remember kinship.

Beautifully illustrated, colorful children's encyclopedias by English, Swedish, American and other authors were published in huge numbers. These editions did not even mention other theories. Everything is written unambiguously and firmly. The corresponding "education" of children and youth began.

For example, in the book "Vikings", published in the series "Illustrated World History" (scientific and educational literature for primary and secondary school age), it was noted:

“At first, the Vikings plundered the Slavic tribes. But later they moved to a sedentary life, and the Swedish leaders began to rule over the Slavic cities - Novgorod and Kiev. "

Not only Rurik and Oleg are registered as "Swedes", but also Svyatoslav, Vladimir, Yaroslav and other princes.

In general, gentlemen-Europeans, "civilized and cultured", came to the Slavic barbarians, who "prayed to stumps" and mired in strife, and founded a large kingdom in Eastern Europe, called it Russia, from which Russia later came. The Vikings, it turns out, allegedly founded Novgorod, Smolensk, Kiev and other cities of Russia, opened the "way from the Varangians to the Greeks." Russia supplied furs and Slavic slaves. As a result, the allegedly Scandinavian dynasty of Rurikovich ruled Russia up to Ivan the Terrible.

War of the West against the North and East


The problem is that the facts tell a different story.

That the current "classical" history of the world and Europe was written by the winners, that is, first in Catholic Rome, then in Paris, London and Berlin. The story is completely edited in the interests of the West.

A myth has been created about the Swedish Vikings, civilizers-masters, “foolish slaves-Slavs”. This is a sophisticated and despicable lie, a conceptual and ideological "onslaught on the East" with the aim of completely destroying Russian self-consciousness. The ideological processing of the remaining unconquered and unassimilated Slavs. The XNUMX-year war of the South against the North, and then the West against the East continues.

We must remember that the worst thing weapon and the effective weapon of the enemy, which is used to destroy the Aryan Slavic-Russian world, these are not missiles, Tanks and NATO ships, and brainwashing. Ideological, informational and historical weapons. It affects entire generations, centuries to come. With these weapons entire countries and peoples are erased from the face of the earth: first, in the minds and memory, in the annals, it is distorted, then their past, their history is destroyed. The corresponding ideological, historical and cultural attitudes are being introduced into the mass consciousness. Then there is a direct linguistic, cultural and mental expansion.

As in the last three decades in Russia there is an Anglo-American linguistic, cultural and mental invasion. For example, our children and adolescents know who Spider-Man, Batman and other heroes of American comics and films are. The musical sphere is dominated by English-speaking singers and singers, and their Russian imitators.

Almost all programs, films and TV series are secondary copies of Western templates and much more. But few young people know who Perun or Chernobog, Svyatogor and Volga Vseslavievich, Sadko and the goddess Lada are. They do not know Svyatoslav Igorevich, Alexander Yaroslavich either. Many no longer know who Lenin and Stalin are. A deep degradation of historical self-awareness has taken place and is taking place. Russians are losing their own "I".

As a result, the people ceases to feel themselves as a single cultural and linguistic community, endowed with historical memory and ceases to exist as something single, integral. It is absorbed, assimilated, partially exterminated, in order to then swallow the remnants of the population.

Two or three more generations and the Russian superethnos will simply disappear, only its ethnographic remnants, debris doomed to complete assimilation, will remain.

To be continued ...
222 comments
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  1. +12
    6 August 2021 04: 18
    Not an article, but a bomb! belay fellow The author scolded the Westernizers and the liberoids with them for the Norman theory and told us that it is pernicious negative affects our national code. Topic revealed ...
    1. +1
      6 August 2021 05: 06
      First of all, you need to think about the question of why all the previous unions of the Slavic tribes collapsed. The fact is that the leader of the Union has always pulled the blanket towards his native tribe. What was needed was an "effective manager" from the outside, who would express the interests of the entire Union of Tribes, which Rurik turned out to be with a team of "managers" (squad). "Come and rule us ..", as the chronicle says. And the fact that a handful of Vikings can conquer a huge territory fellow from Novgorod to Kiev is not quite a clever fantasy, fool which even according to the realities of the 19th-20th centuries (with their technologies) is hardly feasible. But nevertheless, for hundreds of years Westerners have been trying to introduce this nonsense to us.
      1. -4
        6 August 2021 05: 20
        Quote: Proxima
        "Come and rule us ..", as the chronicle says. BUT the fact that a handful of Vikings can conquer a huge fellow territory from Novgorod to Kiev is not a very smart fantasy, fool which, even according to the realities of the 19th-20th centuries (with their technologies), is hardly feasible.

        Why only one Vikings?

        On what grounds do you reject the possibility that both our Slavic ancestors and their combined units have joined them?

        And ... What do you think - in what language did Dir and Askold, and later Prophetic Oleg, communicate with the residents of Kiev?
        Weren't they by that time, in fact, alien Vikings, but by that time they were "Russianized"?

        In addition, do you think those territories were then so densely populated that it presented a certain problem for fixing on them, or is it not worth comparing that period with the XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries?
        1. AAK
          -4
          6 August 2021 15: 13
          It's interesting with Askold and Dir. Askold is a Slavicized Scandinavian name Haskuld, and Dir is more of a nickname (Dir is a beast), therefore, it is not entirely true to consider them like Slavic princes in Kiev, rather these guys were from another Scandinavian mob, whom Rurik and his Norman OPG multiplied to zero. Well, to consider that Rurik - Hrorik Skjoldung of Yutland, Oleg - Helg (Helgi), Igor - Ingvar and other Scandinavians did not bring anything at all to Old Slavic, it is also not entirely correct. But as far as I know, there are no genuine written texts of the 8-9 centuries in the then existing version of the Old Russian language, so we cannot reliably know what we were talking about then.
      2. +7
        6 August 2021 05: 30
        And the fact that a handful of Vikings can conquer a huge fellow territory from Novgorod to Kiev is not entirely clever fantasy.

        A similar handful of Vikings conquered Normandy. And before that, huge territories in the east of England.
        Cortez, with the same handful of conquistadors, conquered Mexico, and Ermak conquered Siberia ...
        1. 0
          6 August 2021 05: 35
          Quote: Xlor
          A similar handful of Vikings conquered Normandy. And before that, huge territories in the east of England.
          Cortez, with the same handful of conquistadors, conquered Mexico ...

          Yes Yes Yes
          And this despite the fact that the Aztec empire was densely populated, perhaps with a population density greater than in Normandy, and even more so in ancient Russia of the period described.
          1. +3
            6 August 2021 06: 19
            Quote: PiK
            And this despite the fact that the Aztec empire was densely populated, perhaps with a population density greater than in Normandy, and even more so in ancient Russia of the period described.

            Was Dorurik's Rus' poorly populated? And why then the Vikings called it Gradarika (the country of cities), and many cities are, by the way, an explicit criterion for the population and level of development of these lands. And it is very difficult for me to believe how Rurik and his comrades conquered such territory. request
            1. 0
              6 August 2021 06: 28
              Quote: Proxima
              Was Dorurik's Rus' poorly populated? And why then the Vikings called it Gradarika (the country of cities), and many cities are, by the way, an obvious criterion for the population and level of development of these lands.

              And that's why they called it because the Scandinavians themselves had nothing of the kind.

              On them, even two houses (one of which is a toilet lol ) made an indelible impression.

              Three or five huts that make up the community and are surrounded by a palisade - that's the whole "city" for you.

              Cities were not then "millionaires" No.
              1. +5
                6 August 2021 06: 41
                Quote: PiK
                Quote: Proxima
                Was Dorurik's Rus' poorly populated? And why then the Vikings called it Gradarika (the country of cities), and many cities are, by the way, an obvious criterion for the population and level of development of these lands.

                And that's why they called it because the Scandinavians themselves had nothing of the kind.

                On them, even two houses (one of which is a toilet lol ) made an indelible impression.

                Well, of course, and the cities of France, Spain, England and so on, the Vikings have not seen? Or is there also "two houses - one of which is a toilet"? belay
                1. -6
                  6 August 2021 06: 46
                  Quote: Proxima

                  Well, of course, and the cities of France, Spain, England and so on, the Vikings have not seen? Or is there also "two houses, one of which is a toilet"?

                  Do you have any idea how the settlements looked (it's hard to call it cities) of the Franks, Britons, Spaniards belonging to the described period, by the way, not the best of the history of Western Europe?

                  Maybe full-fledged cities Did the Viking Normans see it a little later?
                  1. +6
                    6 August 2021 06: 58
                    Quote: PiK
                    Maybe full-fledged cities Did the Viking Normans see it a little later?

                    When later? request Okay, let's take a look at this time period. In 844, the Vikings sacked Lisbon, Cadiz, Seville .. And by the way, these are large rich cities of the Arab period of rule, and you say a house with a toilet .. recourse
                    1. -8
                      6 August 2021 07: 04
                      Quote: Proxima
                      Okay, let's take a look at this time period. In 844, the Vikings sacked Lisbon, Cadiz, Seville .. And by the way, these are large rich cities of the Arab period of rule, and you say a house with a toilet ..


                      Let's consider Yes , but concerning exclusively "Dorurik's Rus" and in the context of archeology as a fact-determining section of history.

                      Do you have any archaeological evidence of the finds of the Gardariki network of cities that you mentioned?

                      There are such ?
                2. -1
                  6 August 2021 06: 52
                  Well, of course, and the cities of France, Spain, England and so on, the Vikings have not seen? Or is there also "two houses - one of which is a toilet"?

                  They saw cities. They did not know how to build them. You, a man of the third millennium, will not offend you, will it be said, can you lay out an arch?
                  1. +5
                    6 August 2021 09: 10
                    Quote: Xlor
                    can you lay out the arch?

                    It depends on how to lay out laughing

                    But seriously, the "Norman theory" is outright nonsense. Even admitting that several immigrants from the Scandinavian land occupied high positions in the hierarchy of early Russia, they physically could not have at least some significant influence on the huge Slavic people (at that time, and in comparison with the same Scandinavia), which consisted of dozens tribes settled in a gigantic territory ...
                    1. 0
                      6 August 2021 15: 45
                      Quote: Doccor18
                      several immigrants from the Scandinavian land occupied high positions in the hierarchy of early Russia, they physically could not have at least some significant influence on the huge Slavic people (at that time, and in comparison with the same Scandinavia), which consisted of dozens of tribes settled on a giant territory

                      You have just outlined the foundations of Norman theory. laughing
                      With a small addition: these immigrants were not just a few, but several thousand at each moment of time, well, and they had an impact corresponding to their number. And so everything is correct. laughing
                    2. +2
                      7 August 2021 12: 17
                      England, Normandy, Ireland, Sicily and Southern Italy were not conquered ...
                3. 0
                  6 August 2021 13: 44
                  Actually, at that time, large cities, such as Kiev or Novgorod, were
            2. -2
              6 August 2021 06: 50
              And it's very hard for me to believe how Rurik and his comrades conquered such territory

              How was Normandy, East Anglia or Ireland conquered?
              1. 0
                9 August 2021 08: 06
                Well, how-how, 300 thugs in armor with swords came to a settlement of several dozen people and said that now you are bringing us milk and eggs regularly, along with bread and hammers. And the settlement immediately understood them. And such qualitative capabilities of a detachment of a couple of hundred heavily armed vigilantes will remain, as it were, not until the 14th century.
            3. +8
              6 August 2021 07: 31
              Here is an excellent criterion for studying history: "I find it hard to believe" laughing
            4. +8
              6 August 2021 07: 53
              Quote: Proxima
              And why then did the Vikings call it Gradarika (country of cities),

              "Gardariki" is not a country of cities, it is a country of vegetable gardens, in the sense of small fenced settlements. The Scadinavians used the word "björg" to designate the city.
              1. -2
                6 August 2021 14: 03
                Quote: HanTengri
                "Gardariki" is not a country of cities, it is a country of vegetable gardens, in the sense of small fenced settlements.

                Anything can be. But in the Russian language the word “city” means “City”. For example, the Kyrym Tatars had the city of Bakhchisarai ... which in Russian means melon (vegetable garden) a barn .. it is clear what a barn is. Shed in the garden - Bakhchisarai!. Aksaray. White shed!
                1. +3
                  6 August 2021 14: 49
                  Quote: 30 vis
                  Anything can be. But in the Russian language the word “city” means “City”.

                  Do you want to say that all these northern Gemans, Danes and Norwegians communicated with their contemporaries exclusively in Slavic? We, after all, about how they called the future Novgorod lands, right?
                  Quote: 30 vis
                  For example, the Kyrym Tatars had the city of Bakhchisarai ... which in Russian means melon (vegetable garden) a barn .. it is clear what a barn is. Shed in the garden - Bakhchisarai!. Aksaray. White shed!

                  Yes ... how many Turkic languages ​​do you speak? None? It can be seen! I, so I had to study one of them at school, I can't say that I own it as a family ... but in order to neigh, over your linguistic attempts, my knowledge is quite enough. Thanks for the fun!
                  BoG (Turk) (g - as Ukrainian G) - garden. Saray (Turk) - palace => BoGchisaray - garden city.
                  Ok (ak) - white => ak (ok) barn - white palace.
                  1. +1
                    6 August 2021 16: 22
                    BoG (Turk) (g - as Ukrainian G) - garden. Saray (Turk) - palace => BoGchisaray - garden city. Ok (ak) - white => ak (ok) barn - white palace.

                    Let me agree with you. The palace can be understood in different ways. It can be something made of stone with columns and bas-reliefs, or it can be a simple tent, simply beautifully decorated ... Where can the Turkic nomads get stone palaces and architects who know how to build them?
                    In the barbarian early medieval Germanic kingdoms there were also palaces - Schloss, which were a wooden house with a thatched roof, which could not be compared with the ancient Roman cities ...
                    Bakcha is both a garden and a vegetable garden, it can be understood in different ways. In any case, in Tatar
                    1. +5
                      6 August 2021 17: 35
                      Quote: Xlor
                      Where can the Turkic nomads get stone palaces and architects who know how to build them?

                      You can, for example, catch sedentary neighbors and force them. smile Or you can simply conquer the sedentary people and use the already prepared city and palace.
                      1. +1
                        6 August 2021 17: 55
                        Or you can simply conquer the sedentary people and use the already ready-made city and palace

                        Can. However, why does a nomad need a city and a ready-made palace if it is impossible to graze horses there? It's the same as that some Tver prince captures a marine cartographer or navigator ... Why does he need them? winked
                  2. +4
                    6 August 2021 17: 13
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    BoG (Turk) (g - as Ukrainian G) - garden.

                    You did not understand my irony. well . no way . about linguistic delights Bakhcha is melon. Only watermelons and melons grow there. that is, a steppe garden. vegetable garden. I doubt that the steppe! all the more nomad shepherds! And it is written and heard as BAKHCHI-Shed, garden shed. Yes, the first name of Sevastopol was Ak-Yar. Beautiful .. And only a white ravine ...
                    1. +1
                      9 August 2021 08: 09
                      In Tatar, melon is just a vegetable garden. The Tatars, or rather their ancestors, the Volga Bulgars, a sedentary people of the century, at least from the 9th.
                      1. 0
                        9 August 2021 08: 35
                        We are talking about nomads. what kind of gardens do they have? Bulls, sheep and horses. Their whole vegetable garden. Bulgars are generally a separate topic.
                      2. 0
                        9 August 2021 08: 36
                        And where does the nomads have to do with it?
                2. 0
                  7 August 2021 11: 31
                  Quote: 30 vis
                  But in Russian, the word city means City

                  which is completely logical for a resident of the 21st century, but does not take into account the history of the origin of the word.
                  1. 0
                    9 August 2021 08: 10
                    Suffice it to recall that "ass" in the 12th century meant inheritance.
                3. 0
                  7 August 2021 21: 02
                  Quote: 30 vis
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  "Gardariki" is not a country of cities, it is a country of vegetable gardens, in the sense of small fenced settlements.

                  Anything can be. But in the Russian language the word “city” means “City”. For example, the Kyrym Tatars had the city of Bakhchisarai ... which in Russian means melon (vegetable garden) a barn .. it is clear what a barn is. Shed in the garden - Bakhchisarai!. Aksaray. White shed!

                  Seriously? So "barn" in the Turkic languages ​​means a palace))) Do not be ridiculous.
                  1. -1
                    8 August 2021 06: 23
                    Quote: Usher
                    So "barn" in the Turkic languages ​​means a palace))) Do not be ridiculous.

                    And in Russian your barn is a barn. Very seriously .
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                4. 0
                  9 August 2021 09: 20
                  The barn is sort of like the palace is being translated, I could be wrong hi
              2. +2
                6 August 2021 16: 10
                The Skadinavians used the word "björg" to designate the city.

                Björg, burg, bourges are fortified city-fortresses that Charlemagne created to protect against the raids of the Moors and Slavs, as well as the Scandinavians ... The Scandinavians did not need these burgs at all and this word appeared much later ...
            5. +4
              6 August 2021 19: 09
              Did the late Zadornov tell you about the Gardariks?
            6. 0
              7 August 2021 01: 35
              Ladoga at that time was burned by the Normans. The population of the city is estimated by modern scientists to be up to 100 people.
            7. 0
              9 August 2021 08: 02
              Gardarika is a country of small towns, that is, small settlements surrounded by a palisade, either cities, or villages, that is, the level of development there was almost nonexistent. Russia, as a state, was created to control the trade route along the Dnieper, it was for this reason that the Russians descended south to Kiev.
        2. 0
          6 August 2021 17: 55
          Quote: Xlor
          Cortez, with the same handful of conquistadors, conquered Mexico

          However, in modern Mexico they speak the language of Cortez, and in Russia they speak the language
        3. 0
          6 August 2021 17: 57
          And in Russia the language of Rurik is not spoken. So Cortez really won, and Rurik ...
          1. +3
            6 August 2021 18: 13
            And in Russia the language of Rurik is not spoken. So Cortez really won, and Rurik ...

            The Vikings also conquered England. There was even an area of ​​Danish law - danelaw, however, in England nobody speaks Danish. A little later this same England was conquered by French Normans and no one speaks French there either ...
            1. 0
              7 August 2021 10: 57
              The language was the same. What's in England, what's the Vikings. One to one practically.
              1. -3
                7 August 2021 11: 02
                The language was the same. What's in England, what's the Vikings

                The English language was born as a result of a misunderstanding of the languages ​​of the conquerors and the conquered. Genders and conjugations have disappeared. Articles appeared. And the language has one progenitor - Germanic
                1. +1
                  7 August 2021 11: 35
                  Quote: Xlor
                  And the language has one progenitor - Germanic

                  Well, that is hardly ...
                  There is no dispute that the Germanic group of languages ​​was predominant.
                  But the fact that English is essentially artificial is recognized by the British themselves, because even in the current phonetics, the presence of the current Scandinavian languages, Dutch, and, in part, French, is visible in it.
                  Even the name England was brought to the islands by the tribe of Angles, who lived before the time of the Great Migration on the coast of what is now Holland.
                  And the Germanic language (?), If it was as such, then completely dissolved among the other languages ​​of the Germanic group, as well as its main carriers in the form of the Germanic tribes of Allemans and Franks. And the dialects of German, as the direct ethnic heir to the Old German, were immeasurable - from Middle German to Austrian and Prussian dialects.
                  Paradoxically, the so-called. hohdeutsch. This pronunciation gravitated towards the pronunciation common in the North German regions, where Upper German was essentially a foreign language and was found only in writing and official speech. Native to the inhabitants of Northern Germany in the 19th century were the Lower German dialects.
                  And finally ...
                  The theme of the transformation of a single language under the influence of local conditions into various dialects is characteristic of many ethnic groups. As a rule, in the end, the metropolitan dialect was considered to be the classic "correct" one, "combed" grammatically and phonetically - Moscow, Berlin, London ... laughing
                  1. 0
                    9 August 2021 08: 24
                    Isn't literary Russian artificial? It was directly formed by linguists since the 18th century, and precisely by Western ones, since many educated people in the 17th century moved to Muscovy from the same Kiev, and now it is funny to read Kiev jumpers defending some kind of "Ukrainian language" when literary Russian is built in many respects precisely on Western dialects, except that the pronunciation is the average Moscow.
                    1. +1
                      9 August 2021 09: 45
                      Only style can be literary. We call a literary language a revised and revised text for reading.
                      And if the Russian language was influenced, then only the Old Bulgarian language at the very times when the Christianization of Rus began, and the first church books that went to Russia in carts of clergymen from the then Bulgaria could not help but influence the language, both official and colloquial ... In the same way it happened in Poland - there, baptism was accepted according to the Latin rite, which led to a monstrous, from our point of view, spelling. As an example, the Poles still write the name of the city of Szczecin Szczecin. As a result, it is easier for Poles to accept foreign words. This is how they pronounce success (and write) almost in English "success".
                      In other words, any modern language of modern peoples has been influenced throughout its development.
                      But the dialects of the Russian language arose certainly under the influence of local factors. As an illustrative example, Vasily Osipovich Klyuchevsky cites the dialect of the Oka area, in which, according to his description, "one can hear the words of a Finnish sorcerer being burned at the stake."
                      He also came to the conclusion that the Moscow dialect turned out to be the average dialect of all those around it - Yaroslavl, Oka, Smolensk ...
                      The Pomor dialect, which has spread in the Arkhangelsk province, stands apart. Try to find the authentic text of "Northern Tales" by Stepan Pisakhov, a storyteller and ethnographer. This text cannot be read in the original. The same literary translation is required.
                      1. 0
                        9 August 2021 18: 25
                        Read Dahl, in which really lively spoken language was spoken up to the middle of the 19th century in Russia. Modern literary Russian is thanks to Pushkin.
                      2. 0
                        9 August 2021 21: 24
                        Quote: Avior
                        Modern literary Russian is thanks to Pushkin

                        Not certainly in that way. Alexander Sergeevich considered his guru Zhukovsky V.A. It was his works that became one of the foundational ones for romanticism in Russian literature. He was a close friend of A.S. Pushkin.
                        And finally the Golden Age of poetry gave many names. But we are persistently presented with either Pushkin A.S., or Mikhail Yurievich, who is Lermontov.
                        Quote: Avior
                        Read Dahl,

                        Thanks. The period of acquaintance with dictionaries I have passed a long time ago ...
                        hi
                      3. +1
                        9 August 2021 21: 51
                        And Zhukovsky himself considered Karamzin to be his literary teacher.
                        Of course, one person could not create a language. The process of the formation of the language was before him, starting with the Grammar of Milenty Smotritsky, according to which the structure and rules of the language were taught for a long time, Lomonosov, for example.
                        Nevertheless, the degree of Pushkin's influence should not be underestimated either. It was after him that Russian became the language we now use. Although, as we can see from the cover of the dictionary, we will not confuse it with the modern and at the end of the 19th century, not only because of the "yatei" and only at the beginning of the 20th century did it take on its usual look.
                      4. 0
                        16 August 2021 08: 19
                        Any literary language is a certain norm legalized by linguists. If there is no linguistics as a science, then there is no point in talking about the literary norm. It is enough to read the official papers of the 17th century, where they write who is in what is much.
            2. 0
              7 August 2021 11: 35
              Quote: Xlor
              The Vikings also conquered England. There was even an area of ​​Danish law - danelaw, however, in England nobody speaks Danish. A little later this same England was conquered by French Normans and no one speaks French there either ...

              but in Brittany, in my opinion, the Breton language still exists.
              Like Welsh in Wales.
              The history of the origin of modern French and English is very interesting and deserves not a fleeting mention, but separate books.
            3. 0
              7 August 2021 17: 28
              But on the other hand, in England they now speak the language of the conquerors of the Angles and Saxons, and not the language of the Britons. Conquest conquest strife?
              1. -3
                7 August 2021 18: 09
                in England now speak the language of the conquerors of the Angles and Saxons, and not the language of the Britons

                The language of the Angles and Saxons was forgotten in the XII century, and they speak a wild cross between the ancient Germanic and Scandinavian with elements of early French. And they did not conquer the Britons, they simply drove them out of Britain to the continent ...
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. -16
        6 August 2021 06: 15
        [quote = Proxima] And the fact that a handful of Vikings can conquer a huge territory [/ quote]

        and where did you read about the Vikings? What kind of Vikings? It is not necessary to lie, in the Radziwill Chronicle it is written about the VARYAGOV, i.e. BAR_yagov is the Slavs from the Vagriya peninsula, which, in turn, is incorrectly translated by the same Adam of Bremen, who referred to Procopius of Caesarea and was called that peninsula BAR_ia, without Mr.

        [Quote]
        And they said to themselves: "Let us look for a prince who would rule over us and judge by right." And they went across the sea to the Varangians, to Russia. Those Varangians were called Rus, as others are called the Swedes, and some Normans and Angles, and still other Gotlandians - that's how these are. Chud, Slovenia, Krivichi and the whole of Russia said: "Our land is great and abundant, but there is no order in it. Come to reign and rule over us." And three brothers with their families were elected, and took all Russia with them, and came, and the eldest, Rurik, sat in Novgorod, and the other, Sineus, on Beloozero, and the third, Truvor, in Izborsk. And from those Varangians the Russian land was nicknamed. The Novgorodians are those people from the Varangian family, and before they were Slovenes. [/ Quote]

        http://radzivilovskaya-letopis.ru/index.php?id=24#sel


        The chronicle also says that this is a tribe RUSS and this is correct because Russia was everywhere. The Rhone River in France was called RUSNA. The upper Rhine is still called Rusa. The southern province of France is RUSsellon, and Paris itself is like a Celtic city Lutetia Parisian-Lutetia is from the Slavs Lyutich, from him and Luxembourg / Lutzenburg.
        -Porusia
        -Borussia
        -Prusia
        Everything is in Russian.
        On old maps of the 18-19 centuries they wrote
        -Chervonnaya / Cervennaya Rus
        -Black Rus
        -White Russia
        and there were these lands in Poland and the Western regions of this Ukraine and Belarus.
        1. +11
          6 August 2021 07: 42

          Lutetia is from the Slavs Lyutichi, from him and Luxemburg / Lutzenburg.
          -Porusia
          -Borussia
          -Prusia

          Chechen-Itza, in Central America, did the Chechens build it?
          1. -11
            6 August 2021 07: 45
            Quote: Xlor
            Chechen-Itza, in Central America, did the Chechens build it?


            in the 18th century, the lands of Chechnya, Ingushia and Dagestan were called Helia, i.e. Galia.
            Well, this Chechen ittsa, as usual with a historian / philologist, is not a correct translation.
            1. +4
              6 August 2021 11: 36
              Quote: Bar1
              Quote: Xlor
              Chechen-Itza, in Central America, did the Chechens build it?


              in the 18th century, the lands of Chechnya, Ingushia and Dagestan were called Helia, i.e. Galia.
              Well, this Chechen ittsa, as usual with a historian / philologist, is not a correct translation.

              Do you know that in Turkic "tour" = stop, "otur" = sit down, "bar" = go ??! Tour-otur-bar, Tr-otur-bar, - TROTUAR !!! In translation: "you want-stop, want-sit, want-go!" One Asian hochmach proved laughing
              1. +4
                6 August 2021 12: 59
                Quote: Babay Atasovich
                Do you know that in Turkic "tour" = stop, "otur" = sit down, "bar" = go ??! Tour-otur-bar, Tr-otur-bar, - TROTUAR !!! In translation: "you want-stop, want-sit, want-go!"

                laughing And the word "cataclysm" comes from the Uzbek: "kyatta enema" is a big enema.
                Quote: Babay Atasovich
                One Asian hochmach proved

                There was probably a Turk, or a Turkmen. Because it is only for them "stop" - dur, for the rest of the Central Asian Turks - tokhta, dokta, doktouu, tukta ...
                1. +4
                  6 August 2021 16: 25
                  Han Tengri Today, 12: 59
                  And the word "cataclysm" comes from the Uzbek: "kyatta enema" is a big enema.
                  Quote: Babay Atasovich
                  One Asian hochmach proved


                  And another "proved" that -



                  It can be seen that the guys were not very lucky in life. laughing wassat
                  1. +2
                    6 August 2021 20: 34
                    laughing Only "apai" (kaz) is EMNIP not a mother, but an aunt, but the words kelibsiz, in Kazakh it is not at all - this is an Uzbek word. Summary: we have something written in petitchurka. Illiterate, but funny.)))
                  2. +3
                    6 August 2021 20: 39
                    I am already silent about the "air-throm" and "pert-points"! laughing The sea of ​​verbal clever people NOW. ... laughing
                2. -1
                  6 August 2021 16: 31
                  the rest of the Central Asian Turks have tokhta, dokta, doktouu, tukta ...

                  Do you mean by "the rest" the Kypchak dialects?
                3. +2
                  6 August 2021 18: 49
                  Turkmen, he joked later.))
              2. -4
                6 August 2021 20: 32
                Quote: Babay Atasovich
                Do you know that in Turkic "tour" = stop, "otur" = sit down, "bar" = go ??! Tour-otur-bar, Tr-otur-bar, - TROTUAR !!! In translation: "you want-stop, want-sit, want-go!" One Asian hochmach proved


                I myself am from Kyrgyzstan, so I know something and it turns out that people like you, amateurs / half-knowers look funny and disgusting on this forum, because the Turkic language does not exist, just as the Turkic people do not exist, but there are peoples who speak their own languages ​​based on Turkic.

                -bar - it is / have (kaz / uzb / yakut / tatar), and do not go. the dictionary says bar-go, but this is nonsense, because the Kyrgyz have always said -
                -kel manda, flatbread bar?
                -tur- stand up, don't stand, you donkey driver.
                1. +2
                  7 August 2021 16: 06
                  - Objection! laughing For the same Uzbeks: Uyga bar - go home ... but not "there is a house".
        2. +5
          6 August 2021 07: 51
          Well, yes, well, yes, as we know, we heard ... The Rus mixed with the Aryans and conquered the whole world, and the Etruscans are also Russians, although then there was no such thing as "Russians". Even the Drevlyans with the glades did not consider themselves a single whole. You remind me very much of ukroproKhfessor bebik with his ancient ukram. The same shiza only from the other side ...! laughing
          1. -3
            6 August 2021 20: 33
            Quote: Alex_1973
            although then there was no such thing as "Russians".


            a specialist was found ...
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. -1
          9 August 2021 08: 27
          In the head, immediately brought clarity, and what historians and linguists are struggling with these questions.

          By the way, Russia is a Finno-Ugric term, they had similar words in their mod.
      5. +4
        6 August 2021 09: 52
        First of all, you need to think about the question of why all the previous unions of Slavic tribes fell apart.
        For example, the state itself, there finally can be a joke, at the head of the union of Slavic tribes, there was a Frankish merchant (and no one has a complex of usefulness), and so, the external threat in the face of the Avars disappeared and fled.
      6. +4
        6 August 2021 10: 19
        Quote: Proxima
        First of all, you need to think about the question of why all the previous unions of Slavic tribes disintegrated ...

        Well, why only the unions of the Slavs disintegrated? This is generally a common story for inter-tribal associations.
        Nothing, for example, prevented the Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Gepids and Vandals, who were part of the Germanarich state, subsequently to enthusiastically cut each other. And such examples are a dime a dozen.
        The collapse of such unions is a natural process.
      7. 0
        6 August 2021 13: 19
        Quote: Proxima
        What was needed was an "effective manager" from the outside, who would express the interests of the entire Union of Tribes, which Rurik turned out to be with a team of "managers" (squad).

        The same thing happened under Peter the Great. During his reign, effective managers came to Russia from the West (in a good sense of this phrase). Engineers, officers, scientists.
      8. 0
        9 August 2021 07: 58
        Under the conditions of the 9th century, a squad of 200 people. was just a monstrous military force, and such detachments could well seize a large territory and create their own state on it.

        Vikings, different in the mound in Russia, are buried to the fig, including the descendants from the mixing of the Vikings with the Slavs, when there is a mixture of funeral rites in the burials.
    2. -6
      6 August 2021 06: 31
      were Normans who conquered the "wild" Slavic tribes and created Novgorod and Kievan Rus - the Old Russian state.


      in general, about those who were behind this invention of the "Norman theories" Baerschlözermiler has already said a lot, why should Russians believe these non-Russians who lie to us about our history?
      Well, all these types of Russian survivors of the Norman theory Karamzin, Solovyov, Shakhmatov are those who became "official historians" and professors at universities only because the German tsars gave them such an opportunity for what they would betray the memory of their ancestors for money, for a gold Well, and the fact that in this erfefia the leadership also has nerus, it is not surprising that bad millions go to the creation of vile films that distort our history.
      1. -6
        6 August 2021 06: 46
        Samsonov revolts against the "Norman theory", but for not forgetting about the "Russian culture" - the gods of Perun, Chernobog, Lada, but they are not even mentioned in the annals, and the history of Russia immediately begins with Christianity, from the Greeks.
        All the annals are RRRUPTED, they cannot be taken as a basis for the study of our Russian history. It is necessary to study our / Russian history from other sources, for example, from newly discovered archaeological monuments.
        -True blast furnace



        these are the works of historians Lyzlov, MavroOrbini, Abulgachi Bayadurkhan, Vinsheim, Klassen, Volansky, Chertkov, Morozov, Fomenko and Nosovsky and many other real historians who described REAL history, and not history for the sake of the ruling nerus class, by the historians rejected by the officialdom.
        1. +9
          6 August 2021 19: 02
          Well, if all the names you listed are historians (especially Fomenko with Nosovsky) then I am the Spanish queen ... laughing
          I'm wondering, do you at least sometimes regain consciousness? You carry such nonsense that you get the impression that you are sitting tightly on a very hard-boiled dope. fool
          1. -3
            6 August 2021 20: 51
            Yes, you are not the Spanish queen, but the jester of the Spanish queen, because
            -Lyzlov is that the historian of the times of Sophia and Peter.
            -Mavro Orbini is not a historian, because he described his time and called the SLAVS the greatest people.
            -Abulgachi Bayadur Khan was the ruler of Khiva and the historian of Tartaria.
            -Nicholas Winsheim was a professor at the Academy of Ingushetia in the 18th century and compiled an atlas in which he described, for example, China in which a Tatar was a Bogdykhan and only Tatars lived in the Forbidden City, and the Chinese did not live in the Old City. This speaks volumes. From the point of our time, Winsheim - chronicler of his time.
            -Egor Klassen is a famous historian and writer of his time.
            -Tadeusz Wolanski Polish archaeologist, author of Etruscan translations.
            -Alexander Chertkov Russian archaeologist and historian.
            -Morozov is an outstanding Russian and Soviet scientist encyclopedist, the author of the historical work "Christ".
            -Fomenko and Nosovsky Russian scientists, historians and mathematicians, who were able to refute the mathematically Scaligerian chronology of history.
            1. +6
              6 August 2021 21: 46
              Bar1 (Timur)
              -Fomenko and Nosovsky Russian scientists, historians and mathematicians, who were able to refute the mathematically Scaligerian chronology of history.
              Does the pan press your head? Correctly you were told, tie it up with foolishness, and so there is no brain left.
    3. -1
      6 August 2021 10: 03
      In the non-farm they have very diligently created and continue to cultivate theories about the development of mankind in the light of the fact that only the Germans created and invented literally EVERYTHING that mankind uses. Do not think that the Ukrainians themselves came up with about the * great ukrov *. They had forerunners, the Chinese made the falsification of history a state program, and they were taught at one time by the Jesuits who at one time processed Europe. Before the Chinese, the Germans were broadcasting the same thing and very * scientifically * substantiated their claims to * intellectual * world leadership.
      In RUSSIA, the theory of the Normans was introduced by the Romanovs, with the degeneration of the Romanovs into Holstein-Gottorp.
    4. 0
      7 August 2021 10: 40
      Quote: Proxima
      The topic is revealed ...

      Incompletely, because:
      To be continued ...
    5. 0
      8 August 2021 13: 23
      you! have read all sorts of false historical books and exhibit, narcissistic.
  2. +6
    6 August 2021 04: 20
    How could the Vikings bring statehood to Russia when they themselves did not have it?
    And they have a huge influence on medieval Russia - a kind of cement for holding the Slavic and Finnish tribes together ... IMHO
    1. -3
      6 August 2021 04: 35
      Yes! That is why they have called Russia "Wendia" since the times of Rurik to this day! laughing Apparently Rurik missed the "rowing country" and ended up in England - here everything coincides with the "rowers" in the literal and figurative sense! It was not for nothing that Lomonosov broke the noses of foreign scribes-historians with the surname Nose! laughing
      1. -3
        6 August 2021 05: 06
        Venemaa - Russia (est)
        Venäjä - Russia (fin)
        Ryssland - Russia (Swede)
        1. -5
          6 August 2021 05: 58
          Well, in Asia, "Ors" is still holding on! wink And the Swedes after "posusalam" learned a new name Yes
          1. -8
            6 August 2021 06: 06
            The residents of Novgorod and Pskov did not consider themselves Russians.
            1. +9
              6 August 2021 07: 55
              ee2100 (Alexander)
              The residents of Novgorod and Pskov did not consider themselves Russians.
              You will not believe it, but the Tver people, the Ryazan people, and the people of Suzdal did not consider themselves Russians, for one simple reason, there was no such thing as "Russians" at that time!
              1. -4
                6 August 2021 09: 15
                But the concept of Rus existed and there were those who considered themselves Russian
                1. +8
                  6 August 2021 09: 45
                  there were those who considered themselves Russian

                  There was Rus and there were Rus. There were no Russians, there were many tribes of Vyatichi, Krivichi, etc.
            2. +4
              6 August 2021 10: 46
              Quote: ee2100
              The residents of Novgorod and Pskov did not consider themselves Russians.

              Did they personally tell you this? Where the firewood comes from.
              Strange, for example, in the Hansa they were considered exactly Russian merchants, and in the Hanseatic documents they are called that. And not only in the Hansa, in general, everywhere in Europe, Novgorod and Pskov were considered part of Russia and the inhabitants were Russians.
              So do not write nonsense.
              1. -1
                6 August 2021 12: 29
                Read the chronicles, to begin with. And then comment
              2. +1
                6 August 2021 13: 11
                Quote: Beringovsky
                Did they personally tell you this? Where the firewood comes from.

                We can say that ourselves. In the Novgorod letters, they call themselves "Slovene", and, setting off in the direction of Kiev, write: "I am going to Russia." Hence the conclusion: Novgorod, the Novgorodians themselves, do not consider Russia. And they identified themselves as Slovenia.
            3. +3
              6 August 2021 11: 21
              Quote: ee2100
              The residents of Novgorod and Pskov did not consider themselves Russians.

              Believe it or not, my great-grandfather considered us as Olmec words until 1990, and he lived for 107 years! wink
              1. +2
                6 August 2021 11: 44
                well if Olmec then yes, no words.
                Well at least not Aztec Slovenes. Aztekichi, Inkichi and Mayane. Montesumaslav and Machupikchugrad.
                1. -2
                  6 August 2021 12: 22
                  Enviously? wink When people without family came and now consider themselves offigine - oh! laughing
    2. 0
      6 August 2021 05: 39
      Quote: Xlor
      How could the Vikings bring statehood to Russia when they themselves did not have it?

      This is probably so, but where is the refutation of the fact that the Varangians could create the statehood of Russia TOGETHER with our Slavic ancestors?
      1. 0
        6 August 2021 05: 55
        This is probably so, but where is the refutation of the fact that the Varangians could create the statehood of Russia TOGETHER with our Slavic ancestors?

        It seems to me that they did not create any statehood. They simply seized the territory, and imposed tribute on the population, just as it was with Normandy, England, Sicily and Ireland. Well, and then, they became glorified, French, "made English", "inhabited" and "obirlandized" ... Pay attention to the names - at first they were Scandinavian, and then Slavic began to appear - Vladimir, Yaroslav, etc.
        1. 0
          6 August 2021 06: 00
          Quote: Xlor
          It seems to me that they did not create any statehood. They just seized the territory, and the population was imposed a tribute

          Ну what what what ... The procedure for imposing tribute and the procedure for collecting it, this is already some kind of - Законодательство Yes

          And from the legalized order, as a basis, and to statehood - a stone's throw Yes
          1. +4
            6 August 2021 06: 50
            Your question of creating a state based on historical examples, I think, should be supplemented. Did Genghis Khan create a state by subjugating China? I suppose it’s definitely not. But the whole dynasty was Mongolian - Yuan. There are all sorts of options.
            1. -3
              6 August 2021 06: 56
              Quote: vic02
              I think your question of creating a state based on historical examples is worth adding. Did Genghis Khan create a state by subjugating China? I suppose it’s definitely not.


              Not an example No.

              It is not correct to propose as such the conquest of a territory with already formed signs and attributes of statehood - China.
            2. +3
              6 August 2021 06: 57
              Did Genghis Khan create a state by subjugating China?

              A state already existed in China before it. And a very civilized one. He just began to rule it by the right of the winner ...
            3. +3
              6 August 2021 09: 03
              Vic02, good afternoon.
              If you do not know what Genghis Khan created, then it is better not to write about it.
              Here's a link to listen to what he created and how it was with the facts.
              https://youtu.be/qWVCf8fedeE
              1. 0
                9 August 2021 10: 27
                If you do not know what Genghis Khan created, then it is better not to write about it.
                Sergio, your recommendations are not interesting to me and to the wrong address. Everything about what this video is about, I know without your help. If you think that I am wrong, specifically point out the essence of the wrong, and provide links to support your arguments, and not just like that. And you should not consider yourself smarter than others. Look carefully at the context of the conversation. Although I see that the user "PiK", to whom I answered, changed his shoes in a jump and deleted the one-sided examples.
          2. +5
            6 August 2021 09: 49
            The procedure for imposing tribute and the procedure for collecting it, this is already some kind - Legislation yes
            And from the legalized order, as a basis, and to statehood - a stone's throw

            I've seen enough of such builders of statehood in Chechnya. A gang arrives, announces: "From the inhabitants of the village, one cow per month for meat." Where residents take a cow, they don't give a damn.
            If they were told that they are not a gang, but the builders of statehood, they would be surprised. wassat
          3. +4
            6 August 2021 10: 00
            Quote: PiK
            Well ... The procedure for imposing tribute and the procedure for collecting it, this is already some kind of - Legislation

            Those. if you first paid for the "roof", first to one gang of retailers, and then another came and you started paying it, then this is already "legislation" and the beginning of statehood? I wonder when in Kiev, for example, with "some kind of legislation" began? When were the Khazars "brought in", or when did Askold and Dir begin to pay, or when, finally, Oleg came and began to pay him?
            1. +1
              6 August 2021 10: 56
              Quote: HanTengri
              Quote: PiK
              Well ... The procedure for imposing tribute and the procedure for collecting it, this is already some kind of - Legislation

              Those. if you first paid for the "roof", first to one gang of retailers, and then another came and you started paying it, then this is already "legislation" and the beginning of statehood? I wonder when in Kiev, for example, with "some kind of legislation" began? When were the Khazars "brought in", or when did Askold and Dir begin to pay, or when, finally, Oleg came and began to pay him?

              Before! After all, even before that there were Avars, and even earlier Germanarich with his Goths. So it would probably be worthwhile to "make our statehood more ancient"!
              And if you remember the Scythians, their forays to the north, etc. And if we also drag the Cimmerians here, then our statehood will be more ancient than Rome.
              1. +1
                6 August 2021 11: 02
                Quote: Beringovsky
                And if we also drag the Cimmerians here, then our statehood will be more ancient than Rome.

                Here I remembered that we were still in Viznatiya, by the same method, brought civilization and legality, and more than once! First Askold with Dir, then Oleg, then Svyatoslav ... wassat
        2. +1
          6 August 2021 06: 54
          A very controversial statement. What the Vikings brought to the Eastern Slavs, I believe, was the unification of a huge territory and trade routes under the rule of one dynasty, and soon Christianity. So the contribution of Rurik and his heirs is and it is huge, because it was free trade and a single religion that became the basis of the Russian state. On this basis, the associations began to grow rich in cities.
        3. +2
          6 August 2021 10: 50
          Quote: Xlor
          Well, and then, they became glorified, Frenchized, "exposed", "dwelt" and "obirlandized" ..

          They married Slavic women, gave birth to children, learned to drink honey mash, and in the third generation they became Russians.
      2. -4
        6 August 2021 06: 02
        Quote: PiK
        Quote: Xlor
        How could the Vikings bring statehood to Russia when they themselves did not have it?

        This is probably so, but where is the refutation of the fact that the Varangians could create the statehood of Russia TOGETHER with our Slavic ancestors?

        And how the "barbarians", bending down the high-tech and tolerant Romans, NOMADS!, Were able to build cities ???? wassat
        1. +1
          6 August 2021 06: 06
          Quote: Babay Atasovich
          And how the "barbarians", bending down the high-tech and tolerant Romans, NOMADS!, Were able to build cities ????

          So not everyone was nomads.

          For example, the Germans, coming out of the forests, where they built mainly wooden settlements, soon mastered stone architecture, having learned something from the knowledge and technologies of the destroyed Roman Empire, not without their help.
        2. +8
          6 August 2021 06: 39
          And how the "barbarians", bending down the high-tech and tolerant Romans, NOMADS!, Were able to build cities ???? wassat

          1. They "bent" them when Rome was in complete decline and decay
          2. They did not know how to build cities. They learned only after about 500 years, when the Renaissance began. Knight's castles at that time were just a heap of stones piled on top of each other ... wink
          1. 0
            6 August 2021 11: 16
            Quote: Xlor
            They did not know how to build cities. They learned only after about 500 years, when the Renaissance began.

            Ot! Past! laughing What about cities in today's Spain? All sorts of Attttils and the like erected whole "auls"
            With brick towers - nomads ?! laughing About shrines I am silent: non-Christian-Muslim shrines, which were later used by both? wink
    3. +1
      6 August 2021 16: 30
      How could the Vikings bring statehood to Russia when they themselves did not have it?

      It cannot be argued that the Franks brought statehood to Gaul, or the Normans to Normandy? Nevertheless, France and Normandy are their handiwork. The emergence of statehood is one thing, but which tribe or clan will lead this process is quite another.
      1. -1
        6 August 2021 16: 35
        You will not argue that the Franks brought statehood to Gaul, or the Normans to Normandy?

        No, I will not! The Franks and Normans themselves had to be taught to statehood ... wink
        1. 0
          7 August 2021 20: 52
          Well, the Slavs are the same - together with the Varangians they learned to build a state. clean slate.
  3. -2
    6 August 2021 04: 28
    In order to deprive a people of their identity, it is necessary to deprive them of their history and nationality ... our politicians do it with success ... therefore, I always don’t take all the actions that are taking place at the official level on faith, too many lies and deceit come from there.
    The story with the Varangians and the Mongol-Tatar yoke, despite the official interpretation, has blank spots that cannot be deciphered.
    Interpreting historical artifacts of that time is like going to a fortune-teller. smilefortune telling on coffee grounds.
    Here common sense should be guided.
    1. 0
      6 August 2021 05: 11
      "Here we must be guided by common sense" (c) Golden words! But with this, interpreters of history have problems.
  4. +1
    6 August 2021 04: 39
    literally in a matter of years, the history of Kievan Rus' was taken away from us, attributing it to “Ukraine-Rus” - a historical chimera created in the interests of the West


    And they especially succeeded in this not somewhere in the West, but in Ukraine, which is still quite dear to us.

    So, for example, at the time of the hetmanship of the "historian of all Ukraine" ("specialist in Trypillian culture") V.A. Yushchenko, the daughter of Prince Yaroslav the Wise, Anna, married to the king of France and significantly influencing the development of European history, was turned from Anna Russkaya (under this name she was remembered by history) in "Hanna (Anna) Kievskaya"

    Monument to the Queen of France in Kiev with a "politically correct, in the spirit of the times" inscription.
    Other monuments to Anne, with similar inscriptions, have also been erected in France, Paris and Toulouse.

    1. +5
      6 August 2021 04: 59
      It is necessary to supplement.

      Historical monument to Anna Russian - Queen of France.

    2. +1
      6 August 2021 05: 43
      And they especially succeeded in this not somewhere in the West, but in Ukraine, which is still quite dear to us.

      Well, this is something any storyteller will envy!
      1. +1
        6 August 2021 05: 50
        Quote: Luminman
        Well, this is something any storyteller will envy!

        What is characteristic what ...
        The Kiev princes carried out a kind of expansion of the "Russian world" by marrying their daughters, sisters, nieces to influential rulers of Europe, and for Yushchenko, whose activities I described in the commentary above, they wrote out a thin American wife, but I am a rxophobic ...
    3. +2
      6 August 2021 10: 45
      Quote: PiK
      So, for example, at the time of the hetmanship of the "historian of all Ukraine" ("specialist in Trypillian culture") V.A. Yushchenko, daughter of Prince Yaroslav the Wise, Anna

      So if you believe all Ukrainian "historians", you will always come to a starting point - "digging the Black Sea."
      Well, if Anna became Ganna, then how to connect her "Ukrainian" origin, Izhel prince of Rostov, prince of Novgorod, grand duke of Kiev. Yaroslav Vladimirovich is the son of Prince Vladimir Svyatoslavich and the Polotsk princess Rogneda Rogvolodovna.
    4. +2
      8 August 2021 16: 43
      Quote: PiK
      the daughter of Prince Yaroslav the Wise, Anna, married to the King of France and significantly influencing the development of European history, was turned from Anna Russian (under this name she was remembered by history) into "Hanna (Anna) Kievskaya"

      Isn't this the same Hannah who gave the name to the capital of the European state, throwing a piece of bacon on the table with the indication "Porizh!"
      1. 0
        9 August 2021 08: 58
        Quote: Motorist
        Isn't this the same Hannah who gave the name to the capital of the European state, throwing a piece of bacon on the table with the indication "Porizh!"

        Get out, get out! Yes

        That's right on the move wassat and said Yes
  5. 0
    6 August 2021 04: 59
    Rootslane - Swede (Estonian)
    Ruotsi - Sweden (Fin, Est)
    And what does the Russians have to do with it?
    Not an article, but nonsense.
    1. +4
      6 August 2021 11: 26
      This name comes from the name of the east coast of Sweden - Roslagen. This is how the Finns called people from this area, and later this name was passed on to all Swedes.
      Here are just the first mention of Rodin (just like that) refers to 1296, 500 years after Russia. We do not know how the Finns called the natives of Scandinavia before.... Changing the names of a particular people is not uncommon. You can remember a lot of such examples even here in Russia. Where are the Chukhonts now, where are the Samoyeds, what are they called?
      There is no reason to consider the name Ruotsi older than the 14th century, which means that its consonance with Russia, which appeared 500 years earlier, is just a coincidence, no more. And there is nothing unusual in such a coincidence. There are a lot of names with the root Ros / Rus / Rod / Ore in Northern Europe.
      1. +1
        6 August 2021 12: 40
        Two peoples call Sweden - Ruotsi and you say that this is a coincidence?
        Himself not funny.
        The author of the article produces Russian from Ruotsi, or rather rewrites someone else's nonsense. It's like declaring the Nenets the descendants of the Germans, or vice versa.
        I don't care who the Vikings were. But what is interesting is that the word remains, but there is no such people!
        1. +3
          6 August 2021 14: 52
          Well, Estonians are just the Finnish-speaking people. Now, if the Swedes were also called by Poles, Latvians and Lithuanians, then it would be another matter. And there are plenty of such incidents. Half of the world calls China a derivative of the Manchu Jin dynasty, and we call it by the name of the Khitan people - China. But neither the Manchus nor the Khitan were Chinese and were not in any way involved in the formation of the state in ancient China.
          1. +1
            6 August 2021 17: 50
            That is, for you there are peoples whom you believe more (Lithuanians, Poles) and others (Estonians and Finns) whose opinion does not interest you. Are you a racist for an hour?
            The main message: the word Varangians is, but there is no such people. The word ruotsi is, and there is such a people. I won't even write about the Vikings.
            For your information, until the middle of the XNUMXth century, Estonians called themselves maarahvas- "people of the earth". Does anyone remember this now, or is it interesting for someone?
      2. 0
        7 August 2021 16: 18
        The Chukhonts are Finns! It was often used before the revolution ... Samoyeds - "pre-revolutionary" Chukchi ... or Yakuts ... something like that.
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. +1
    6 August 2021 05: 08
    Absolutely give a shit who created something there in the eighth century.
    Even if they were Vikings or even proto-ukry :)
    Russia is so good as a country that everyone will find a place in it. the whole history of our state shows how people of absolutely different nationalities came to it and became real Russians. Even if they had completely non-Russian surnames and names
    1. -1
      7 August 2021 16: 20
      Well, yes ... well, yes ... and there are more and more of these very fvmilias ...
  8. 0
    6 August 2021 05: 09
    Clearly, Rome brought civilization to Europe, founded many cities, and we are Aryans, who invented everything ourselves.
    1. +1
      6 August 2021 11: 10
      I'm not defending anything now, but I wonder what you say about the Chinese, Japan? Did Rome bring them too?
  9. +6
    6 August 2021 05: 27
    the daughter of Prince Yaroslav the Wise, Anna, married to the King of France and significantly influencing the development of European history, was turned from Anna Russian (under this name she was remembered by history) into "Hanna (Anna) Kievskaya"

    Classic historical disputes ... Germany and France, for example, argue whether Charlemagne was French or German, although at that time there were no clear ethnic boundaries. Likewise, there were no Russians and Ukrainians ...
    1. +1
      6 August 2021 05: 56
      Quote: Xlor
      Likewise, there were no Russians and Ukrainians ...

      Fact Yes
      To understand this, you don't even need to read the GDPR article, but just know a little history.
    2. +1
      6 August 2021 11: 34
      Quote: Xlor

      Classic historical disputes ... Germany and France, for example, argue who Charlemagne was - French or German, although at that time there were no clear ethnic boundaries ...

      But there were Germans and Celts. The Germans consider themselves descendants of the former, the French of the latter.
  10. +6
    6 August 2021 05: 33
    Sometimes it seems to me that the author likes to rewrite history no worse than individual characters from Ukraine ...
  11. +1
    6 August 2021 05: 34
    Well, what is clear to the winners, then they write! The West is a civilization of free urban artisans, merchants and financiers built on the ruins of the Roman Empire. And Russia is a world based on free military democratic rural communities with urban centers. And these are two different worldviews and different lifestyles. And in the confrontation, the West won, but he does not know how to think as we do. Therefore, Westerners do as they understand, for they have no other understanding.
    A person can understand anything, except that which is not included in the circle of his understanding! This means that the dispute does not make sense. Whoever wins in the future will write that something else, perhaps not at all Russophobic, but Western-phobic and Eastern-philistine, but that will come later. In the meantime, everything is as it is!
    1. -4
      6 August 2021 05: 51
      Will not write and will not be later smile., while the Russian people are alive, this will not happen later.
      For many centuries they have been trying to destroy our state, but it is like a Phoenix reborn from the ashes again, therefore, in order to destroy the state, you must first destroy the state-forming people ... and our people are tenacious, do not want to die, in spite of all enemies they survive.
    2. +8
      6 August 2021 10: 56
      Quote: Hazarov
      The West is a civilization of free urban artisans, merchants and financiers ...

      Century from XIII.
      Quote: Hazarov
      And Russia is a world based on free military democratic rural communities with urban centers.

      Century to XI.
      You probably won't believe it, but almost all human communities go through this stage, and the ugly West also went through this. Only they ended this stage much earlier than ours.
      1. -1
        6 August 2021 17: 53
        The Ugly West hasn't made it through. His path through this was interrupted by Rome and the fact that Rome fell, and it was the west that inherited the fallen Rome. Those. they skipped this period, but they also had the opportunity to do so, tk. they have wheat on their own 5-6! And we have the same level only in rye and slash agriculture, i.e. forest quality with a semi-urban center controlled by this nomad, and not a city controlling rural life, like in the west! And that's exactly the difference! Not the city and rural life with him, but rural life and the city with her!
  12. 0
    6 August 2021 06: 04
    Two or three more generations and the Russian super-ethnos will simply disappear, only its ethnographic remnants will remain, fragments doomed to complete assimilation
    ... Any action causes opposition !!!
    Once again, the Russian bear will take off and make everyone angry !!! Those who do not have time to escape ...
    By the way, notice how those "raformers and revolutionaries" began to tick over the hill en masse .... significant!
    1. +2
      6 August 2021 11: 32
      hi I greet you, Victor! I think about what should happen so that
      ..... Once again, the Russian bear got angry and broke everyone ...
      ... What should happen for the Giant Bear to growl and break the bonds with which the vile midgets are trying to bind him, so that he would quickly trample all evil spirits?
      1. +1
        6 August 2021 11: 56
        Hi Dmitry soldier
        To say that he tore everything up is great optimism.
        The case has not yet been completed.
        At the expense of evil spirits ... the process is underway, but not all restrictions have been lifted.
        The question of whether everything will be removed is very open, for now.
  13. +6
    6 August 2021 06: 05
    Kopiastil, copy-paste the article, and then "the poet's soul could not bear" (c), I decided to make my next contribution to historical science and water rushed through the pipes and there will be a series of penalties, in the sense of a continuation.
  14. +5
    6 August 2021 06: 27
    God! How tired of that!
    To invite a babayka from the outside is an old global tradition and not only in ancient times.

    As many as two dynasties of Germans at the head of England, Welfs and the current Sachsen-Coburgs. Long before that, purebred French Plantagenets.
    Habsburgs and Bourbons in Spain.
    This is just what immediately comes to mind.
    Like the icing on the cake, Charles IV, Johan in Sweden. If memory does not fail, the evoy daddy is generally a lawyer from the French provinces.
    1. -3
      6 August 2021 06: 53
      Quote: Grossvater
      purebred French Plantagenets.

      "purebred French" do not exist.
      The French are a cross between everything.
      A cross between Gali and Romans,
      the name France is from a German, not a French tribe of Franks,
      and the castles of the city were built for them by the Russellon and the Slavs lutichi Paris-Lutetia Parisian.
      1. 0
        6 August 2021 06: 59
        The French are a cross between everything. A cross between Gali and Romans

        Rather, a cross between Germans and Gauls ...
        1. -4
          6 August 2021 07: 03
          Quote: Xlor
          Rather, a cross between Germans and Gauls ..


          The Germans are still white people, but the Latins / Romans are just black. Blacks and most of the French, so the French are Galas spoiled by the Latins.
          1. +2
            6 August 2021 07: 07
            but the Latins / Romans, just black

            Nothing like this! The Romans were blond and blue-eyed! And the dark complexion of some Latins is the direct influence of the Moors. Look at General Franco - the spitting image of an Arab ...
            1. -5
              6 August 2021 07: 11
              Quote: Xlor
              Nothing like this! The Romans were blond and blue-eyed! And the dark complexion of some Latins is the direct influence of the Moors. Look at General Franco - the spitting image of an Arab ...


              is it modern Italians, descendants of the Romans, you call "blond"?
              You do not know the history, it was not the Romans who were blond, but
              -ETRUSCIANS, who built cities and civilization in the Apennines.
              They are
              -Si / se Barity-in the south of Italy.
              1. +4
                6 August 2021 07: 31
                is it modern Italians, descendants of the Romans, you call "blond"?

                I called the ancient Romans blond. You are not reading carefully. And if we talk about modern Italy, then its north is quite bright (Milan, Bologna, etc.). The Italians themselves say: "Everything south of Rome is already Morocco" wink wink
                1. -2
                  6 August 2021 11: 05
                  Now it remains to remember what Cisalpine Gaul is and the myths about the blond ancient Romans will disappear by itself ...
                2. -1
                  7 August 2021 21: 21
                  Quote: Xlor
                  is it modern Italians, descendants of the Romans, you call "blond"?

                  I called the ancient Romans blond. You are not reading carefully. And if we talk about modern Italy, then its north is quite bright (Milan, Bologna, etc.). The Italians themselves say: "Everything south of Rome is already Morocco" wink wink

                  Don't play with the fool. This is the head-banged alternative.
  15. +4
    6 August 2021 06: 36
    No one won Russia in 1991. If society in an independent country behaves like a bunch of gopniks, there is simply no historical perspective.
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. +3
    6 August 2021 06: 56
    Two or three more generations and the Russian superethnos will simply disappear, only its ethnographic remnants, debris doomed to complete assimilation, will remain.

    recourse It's clear. We figured out who is to blame. What is there to do? wink

    I think now, in the context of globalization, modern Western kids know their story only from comics about Asterix and Oberiks, and Thor and Odin are just superhero aliens from the planet Asgard. I do not see in them the descendants of Gauls, Britons, Picts, Goths, Saxons ...
  18. +3
    6 August 2021 07: 35
    The article is an excellent reason for splashing out another pseudo-historical nonsense based on the desire or unwillingness to accept the facts and evidence of a particular theory, based on modern political ambitions and mental problems
    1. +4
      6 August 2021 07: 43
      The article is an excellent reason for splashing out another pseudo-historical nonsense based on the desire or unwillingness to accept the facts and evidence of a particular theory, based on modern political ambitions and mental problems

      In the top ten! wink
  19. -4
    6 August 2021 07: 36
    Actually, according to the chronicles of Rurik, the "fourteenth tribe" of the Prus clan ... And Prus, this is one of the legendary SLAVIC leaders
    1. tth
      +3
      6 August 2021 08: 46
      Do you at least ask where this bike came from?
      1. -2
        6 August 2021 10: 44
        Quote: tth
        Do you at least ask where this bike came from?

        Personally, I heard this yesterday, during the broadcast of the radio "Zvezda", when the chapters of the "Course in Russian History." OV Klyuchevsky, written in 1872-1875.
        Vasily Osipovich Klyuchevsky (16 [28] January 1841, Voskresenovka, Penza province [3] - 12 [25] May 1911, Moscow) - Russian historian, ordinary professor at Moscow University, Honored Professor of Moscow University; ordinary academician of the Imperial St. Petersburg Academy of Sciences (over the staff [4]) on Russian history and antiquities (1900), chairman of the Imperial Society of Russian history and antiquities at Moscow University, privy councilor.
        What do you know?
        1. tth
          +4
          6 August 2021 11: 07
          You probably weren't listening carefully.
          Klyuchevsky gave a brief description of this ideological structure and its content: “Moscow politicians at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. there was little marital relationship with Byzantium (that is, with Princess Sophia Palaeologus), I wanted to become related by blood, moreover, with the very root or world model of supreme power - with Rome itself. In the Moscow chronicle of that century, a new genealogy of Russian princes appears, leading their family directly from the Roman emperor. Apparently, at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. the legend was composedas if Augustus, the Roman Caesar, the owner of the entire universe, when he began to faint, divided the universe between his brothers and relatives, and planted his brother Prus on the banks of the Vistula River along a river called the Neman, which is still called the Prussian land by his name, “and from Prus the fourteenth knee - the great sovereign Rurik. " Moscow diplomacy made practical use of this legend: in 1563, the boyars of Tsar Ivan, justifying his royal title in negotiations with Polish ambassadors, quoted this very genealogy of the Moscow Rurikids in the words of the chronicle ... They wanted to highlight the history and the idea of ​​the Byzantine heritage.
          1. +1
            6 August 2021 11: 14
            Thank you for reminding me, the main thing for me is not the desire of the Moscow tsars to become related to Augustus, but the fact that "Pruss is the progenitor of Rurik", but the connection between the Novgorod lands and the lands inhabited by Prussians can be traced from other sources, for example:
            In addition to the Prussian coat of arms, the image of a horse is also found in Old Russian heraldry. Moreover, which is characteristic, on the oldest surviving city seals of Novgorod

            and Pskov.

            And all this whistle with the call of Rurik receives other explanations. Rurik was a RODICH and came to the call of his RODNI
  20. +9
    6 August 2021 08: 01
    Another attack of delirium on the fan, this illiterate scribbling cannot be called anything else due to the complete absence of at least some kind of evidence base confirming the author's "theories".
    The author would have read at least a little before writing, at least Mavrodin, or something.
    1. -1
      6 August 2021 11: 03
      Samsonov is not a reader, Samsonov is a writer laughing
  21. 0
    6 August 2021 08: 02
    To be continued ...

    Go on, do not go on, we are who we think we are, who we make ourselves, we will remain what we RAISE OUR DESCENDANTS !!!
    There is a lot of mud around, there will be more ... nothing new. Spit and grind .... oh yes, do not let such dregs into textbooks!
    By the way, only the poor are trying to build their state, their lives, on that ... constantly delving into the past.
    It was, what it was and WHAT ??? can this affect our life, our future?
    1. +5
      6 August 2021 11: 40
      From the first years after the Revolution, they made plans, dreamed of the future, represented a new socialist world, a new country.
      And then, at some point, they began to cheat on the Soviet past, procrastinate and misinterpret, repent and be ashamed ....... came 1991
      1. +1
        6 August 2021 12: 03
        Dmitry, let's do this ... the Soviet government, too, cannot be called angelically patient, there were a lot of chips flying in all directions.
        Now, the process is anti and all actions, actions are natural, standard.
        It is necessary to objectively assess everything that happens and not shove against the truth, even if you really want to.
        For our society, medicine will be useful as truth!
        This is of course an illusion, which is not welcomed outside of us ... but you don’t need to lie to yourself.
        We need to move forward, I hope that ALL of the previous experience will be used as intended.
        1. +3
          6 August 2021 13: 05
          This is the case, Andropov had words that
          ..... we don't know the society we live in ....
          I don't know what he meant. His knowledge and ignorance were different than those of ordinary people. But the fact is that the picture of society in the USSR and the world as a whole was less illuminated, now there is an opportunity to know more about that past than they knew about that present then.
          .... cure as truth
          1. +3
            6 August 2021 13: 21
            No authority is engaged in altruism ... there is always a goal, their interests are respected first of all.
            The question is, what are these interests? Coincidence / not coincidence of them with that .... and here is freedom for everyone's imagination, strictly individually. Society will never be homogeneous.
            1. +3
              6 August 2021 14: 04
              Now, in my opinion, Victor, there is so much information about the satisfied and post-war USSR that there is a unique opportunity to learn, understand the pros and cons, evaluate the good and the bad, so that
              correctly evaluate and take the best from our past.
              1. +1
                6 August 2021 14: 39
                Really, what happened ... in general, the surrounding reality always makes adjustments to EVERYTHING.
                Let's try to repeat, it will be DIFFERENT ... how, I don't know.
          2. 0
            6 August 2021 15: 27
            "Andropov had the words" we do not know the society in which we live "in my opinion, he said correctly.
            What is it that some "roll the barrel" on Andropov, God be their judge. I believed and still believe that only Andropov could save the Union
            1. +1
              6 August 2021 15: 57
              hi
              ... could have saved ...
              I very much doubt that it was about the salvation of the USSR. as a socialist state. After all, the quantity and quality of deliveries and documents that appeared under Gorbachev suggests that this was developed years before Gorbachev. That means under Andropov. And when Brezhnev was on medication in recent years, who was in charge? Probably Andropov? And what is the KGB famous for? A film about Stirlitz.
              1. 0
                7 August 2021 08: 15
                "Developed years before Gorbachev" I agree: some documents were ready earlier, but for various reasons were postponed.
                "Probably Andropov" and he included. In the last years of L.I.'s life, a team was formed: Andropov, Gromyko, Ustinov, Chernenko. From the bottom it seems that one person is in charge, but in fact the group is in charge.
                Even Stalin did not make decisions alone, but took into account the opinion of one or several members of the Central Committee, at that time there was no Politburo. It was at Solzhenitsyn's and Co.'s. All Stalin and Baria were shot, and the "healthy forces of the party" were sitting in the chest. How: Terrible Moody Eye?
                It has always been, is and will be: decisions are made taking into account the recommendations or opinions of 2-3 assistants
  22. -5
    6 August 2021 08: 32
    But few young people know who Perun or Chernobog is, Svyatogor and Volga Vseslavvich, Sadko and the goddess Lada

    "... In the Slavic Faith, the transcendental reality is also expressed by the Triglav"Rule - Reality - Nav"...

    ... I decided on such a generalization of all the knowledge and ideas about the Universe accumulated at that time, as well as on the basis of my own understanding of the revelations received from Above, a very specific person named Dazhbo, who was born and lived in the South Urals, in a village called Syvoy. We can rightfully consider him the founder of the Slavic Faith, who laid the foundation for its fundamental principle. The ideas of the founder of our Faith, in which they were left to his descendants, have come down to us ...

    Rule - "Ruling", "Governing", "That which rules" (Causal, Causal, Fiery world), one of the three constituent parts of the world. Rule is invisible, unlike Navi, which is sometimes visible, and sometimes creatures "from the other world" - navi (navi) appear or manifest in Reveal (waking).

    Reality - “Explicit”, “Manifested” (Physical; what is here in this world; “this light”), one of the three components of the world.

    Nav - "Non-Reality", "Implicit", "Unmanifest" (Subtle world, "That Light"), one of the three components of the world .... "

    Today, the trinity of rule Navi and Reveal sounds like: in the name of the father, son and holy spirit. A more modern expression of the trinity is: matter, measures and information. The world is triune: "Matter will be transformed according to information."

    Trinity in Torah:

    1. Sefar - measure (form, matrix).

    2. Sipur - information (content, what is contained in the form, meaning, idea). Latin "informatio" - explanation, presentation. 1. Reporting something. 2. Information that is the object of storage, processing and transmission (dictionary of foreign words). English "in" - in Russian the preposition "in" and "form" - in Russian "form of an object, human figure", etc., "in the form" - in Russian "in form", that is, what contained in the form.

    3. Sefer - matter (fruits of creation, "things", as the embodied unity of form and content).

    ps
    We did not call anyone, they themselves came and imposed their faith on us.
  23. +7
    6 August 2021 08: 35
    Well, let Rurik be a Slav-Aryan-Tartar. What will the adoption of Christianity be canceled now, or will Ivan the Terrible immediately after the capture of Kazan, annex the Siberian Khanate? And Tsar Peter, after the Prut campaign, will take Constantinople? History, will it develop in a different way? Young people will find out who Perun or Chernobog, Svyatogor and Volga Vseslavvich, Sadko and the goddess Lada are.? And what? will the temple open for them? laughing Create the Young Gentiles organization? Joining the ranks of the pagans, we solemnly swear to Perun and Chernobog, Lada .. Do not drink, do not smoke, do not listen to Morgenstern, and if I break this solemn oath, let them strike all the gods with lightning. laughing
    1. -3
      6 August 2021 08: 53
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      And what?

      And not what.

      You need to know your history. And by the way, a heathen means a speaker.
      There are temples in all parts of the world. And here, and in the West, and in both Americas, and in Africa, and in the East near and far. If you are interested - an Internet to help you.
      1. +4
        6 August 2021 09: 18
        Rurik, Slavic-Aryan, Taratarian, believed! How easy it was in my soul! laughing
        There are temples in all parts of the world. And here, and in the West, and in both Americas, and in Africa, and in the East near and far.
        Let them exist. Some build temples, other temples ... Who believes in Mohammed, who in Allah, who in Jesus, who does not believe in anything - even in the devil, to spite everyone ... laughing
  24. +1
    6 August 2021 08: 43
    What is the problem with Tutankhamun they did a DNA analysis and it is necessary to do it for the Rurikovichs and remove all questions once and for all
  25. +2
    6 August 2021 09: 35
    A myth has been created about the Swedish Vikings, civilizers-masters, “foolish slaves-Slavs”.
    Which? why Swedish and not Norwegian or Danish?
    It turns out that
    "Caesar was killed, but they still did not succeed! Two more were found: Caesar's relative, Octavian, and Caesar's workmate, Antony. Well, how, eh?" (C).
  26. -2
    6 August 2021 10: 27
    So, literally in a few years, the history of Kievan Rus' was taken away from us, attributing it to "Ukraine-Rus" - a historical chimera created in the interests of the West.

    Kievan Rus is the same fake as Ukraine-Rus. There was always only RUSSIA !!!
  27. +6
    6 August 2021 11: 01
    Always wondering what is the essence of the dispute between "Westerners" and "Slavophiles"? And I always came to the conclusion that the dispute was going on, but as it turns out, it continues to go about nothing!
    Were there Vikings? Were. Did the Slavs live in Veliky Novgorod long before the Vikings appeared there? Lived. Did the Slavs have their own way of life, their own laws, their own foundations and government? It was all there. Did the Vikings come to Veliky Novgorod at the invitation of the Novgorodians? Have come. When all the game in the forests around Novgorod was killed and there was nothing to eat, did they turn their eyes to the South? Have converted. Did the Slavs live in Kiev at the time? Lived. Did they have their own way of life, their own laws, their own government? It was. The Vikings, together with the Novgorodians, having covered almost 1,5 thousand km, captured Kiev? Captured. Has the space from Kiev to Veliky Novgorod become unified in economic, political and social terms? In a sense, yes, given that there were few people living on this territory in comparison, say, with the same Western Europe. Moreover, Orthodoxy is accepted on this territory - the orthodox version of Christianity, which came from Byzantium, where, as you know, the Varangians, Novgorodians and Kievans also visited in order to profit from what God sent, but did not settle there for one simple reason that the Power of Romeev or The Eastern Roman Empire was strong both militarily and economically, and, not even an hour, it could equip an army itself to deal with the forest and steppe barbarians, who appeared now from the sea, now from land, but always from nowhere.
    Did all this happen a long time ago? Happened. And why break spears? Some people are probably offended that this happened for more than 1000 years (or even more), and not 40 years of wandering through the groves and sand. Well, we are so stupid, slow-witted, what can you do about it? Therefore, even the Americans have long noticed that we have two troubles as they were, so they remain, although foreigners call them differently. But the fact that once having dined in a foreign land or having bathed, this land nevertheless continued to be considered a stranger, and not their own, it is a fact ... ...
    Conclusions: Novgorodians invited the Normans successfully. Their dynasty ended with the death of Ivan IV the Terrible in 1584 and the creation of the Russian centralized state, i.e. 722 years later after coming to reign in ... Veliky Novgorod.
    What happened next, and why the "invitations" of others to the management of the above territory were less successful, and some even unsuccessful, is another story.
  28. -1
    6 August 2021 11: 02
    Samsonov again creates a myth and joyfully refutes it laughing
    1. +1
      6 August 2021 14: 22
      Samsonovs only live by this
  29. +4
    6 August 2021 12: 21
    ... As a result, the people ceases to feel themselves as a single cultural and linguistic community, endowed with historical memory and ceases to exist as something single, integral. It is absorbed, assimilated, partially exterminated, in order to then swallow the remnants of the population....
    Yaroslavna is just crying about the loss of the people of their historical roots ...
    So many works have been published in Russian historical science that it is impossible to count them. lol From Schleitzer and Lomonosov, to Tatishchev with Nosovsky, coupled with Fomenko. Often, the conclusions drawn in the works devoted to the History of the State of Russia were exactly the opposite. As a result, foreign opponents could only refer to the statements they needed, in which either Sweden is the homeland of Russian elephants, or the rootless sea tramp from the Danes suddenly united the Slavic tribes, which had fallen into savagery, under his powerful hand.
    To take as the primary source PVL "Where did the Rus land come from ..." is not even funny. This is a literary monument, with no one confirmed data, came from the pen of either Nestor, or Sylvester ...
    recourse
    What do we have in the end?
    Confusion and vacillation in the minds of the Who is Who part, which led to numerous opinions that turned into semi-official attitudes almost at the state level.
    And why be surprised if the history of the USSR is still a stumbling block in opinions here on the site? Are we going to discuss the events of a thousand years ago? A wave, or even a flurry, swept here, odes to the joy of arrangement, and most importantly, to the life of a "common man" during the late USSR! And according to some of the characters, the Land of the Soviets was an oasis of well-being for its citizens. The stump is clear that the USSR is being raised on the shield in order to discredit the current government. But when the history of the country begins to be misinterpreted with terrible force, falling at the same time into hysterical insanity, then not only history itself turns into an instrument of political struggle, but the subject of the dispute itself moves from the category of science to the category of a method of pressure on the minds of readers. As a rule, delirium ...
    Which, in principle, was confirmed by the author of the PVL (collective), extolling the Polyan tribe in his work, and accusing the neighbors of ignorance and backwardness.
    And if you transfer this technique to an earlier time, then the same plot comes out with the "vocation" of Rurik's comrades. And legends about Kiy, or the twins of Askold and Dir, are still in use.
    1. -1
      6 August 2021 14: 23
      Quote: stalkerwalker
      Yaroslavna is just crying about the loss of the people of their historical roots ...

      Surprisingly, after reading this article of this "Samsonov" I had the same phrase about "Yaroslavna's cry" and approximately the same thoughts as you. What's worse than a lie? Plausible, but grotesquely exaggerated lies, using elements of truth and with an emphasis on patriotism. For an educated person, falsity is clearly visible, but for an illiterate man in the street, it works. And it is absolutely disgusting when patriotism and history are falsified and used in unscrupulous political struggles.
  30. +4
    6 August 2021 14: 20
    "who" prayed to the stumps "for the information of the author: the Varangians and Slavs were pagans. Both of them tended to deify nature. Images: Torah or Perun were made of wood, but if you recall the pagan temples in the forest, they are" praying to the stumps. "
  31. +6
    6 August 2021 16: 12
    I liked the article. This is exactly how a true Russian-Aryan patriot, mortally wounded by facts and in intellectual agony, should write and speak. wassat Would have finished off someone close out of pity or something ... He's suffering, poor fellow. laughing
    Not a single fact, not a clear concept, only speculation, fantasies and, of course, slogans, labels and a fountain of drool. laughing
    There is nothing to discuss, nothing to criticize, nothing to argue with.
  32. +4
    6 August 2021 16: 27
    the author has an inferiority complex? What is the problem then?
    The "problem" of Norman theory is not the Swedishness of Rurik & Co. And in the strange conclusions that since the ruling dynasty is not local, then the people are Untermensch.
    The author, take Great Britain there, the local elite was cut and with about the same wording as our invited Saxons-Germans and Romans and all kinds of Scandinavians (they certainly were there - areas of Danish law, Danish money, etc.). And then, to be sure, the French descendants of the Vikings came - the knights of Guillaume Bastard from Normandy, basically, and finished off everyone completely. And the nobility there spoke French for a very long time.
    In general, everything was fine there. Harald Goodwinson (Scandinavian) first defeated Harald the Severe (Scandinavian) at Stamford Bridge, and then lost to another descendant of the Scandinavians - Guillaume (Wilhelm) Bastard. By the way, before that, Severe was sitting out with a relative - Yaroslav the Wise in Kiev. like many before him.
    And in the end they built a great empire. The locals are very proud and are in no hurry to measure the skulls of their national heroes. Maybe, of course, local fools are running around there now, screaming - yes, they were all Celts and druids, you will vsevrete, but they are in a clear minority
    And France? They have both Werzengetorix and the Romans and Charlemagne (it does not matter that the German) Everyone is happy.
    Romanians? The unfinished Dacians consider themselves not too many descendants of the Romans. Bulgarians with their Asparuh, Turkic nobility and local Slavic population at the core. Also, I suppose the hair under the armpits is burning with annoyance from their inferiority?
    Half of Europe considers itself to be the descendants of the proud Romans, although they are descendants of those whom the Romans mostly chased with rags and sold into slavery
    But with us everything is different. Russia is the homeland of elephants. Of course, whether the Varangians were called or whether they came themselves to take a profitable trade route is a question. But I have no doubts about the Scandinavian presence and the Scandinavian origin of the Rurik, or rather the Igorevich.
    Moms-dads of many of them are famous. Is that our Vladimir Krasno Solnyshko with Malusha stands out.
    The Scandinavians at that time were everywhere they could reach. From long-suffering England to France, Spain, Italy, Byzantium, North Africa and even North America.
    Well, they came to visit us. What's wrong with that?
    1. +1
      7 August 2021 00: 01
      All sisters on earrings!
      good
      But ...
      Quote: ecolog
      But with us everything is different. Russia is the homeland of elephants. Of course, whether the Varangians were called or whether they came themselves to take a profitable trade route is a question. But I have no doubts about the Scandinavian presence and the Scandinavian origin of the Rurik, or rather the Igorevich.

      There are too many pitfalls in terms of determining belonging to a particular ethnic group of the same Varangians.
      To consider the Varangians as Scandinavians is just as meaningless as to take modern Egyptians or Greeks for the heirs of the Pharaohs or Hellenes.
      The borders of states in their current outlines with reference to ethnicity were formed by the middle of the second millennium AD. And that conglomerate of ethnic groups that took place in the South Baltic by the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries AD. where, in principle, the ancestors of the Varangians came from, does not give a clear and clear answer - who were Rurik's comrades. Moreover, the northern coast of present-day Poland by this time had already been settled by the Polabian Slavs, skinned, lutichi, and others not mentioned in the PVL. And we know about the Vendian Union only because it fought for a place in the sun of the Baltic against the same Germanic tribes and Danes.
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  34. +4
    7 August 2021 07: 36
    In my opinion, the article seeks not to resolve the issue, but to politicize it. And accusing others of politicization. It is precisely the politicization of the issue, which is what the author of the article is doing, that interferes with the study of the history of the emergence of statehood in Russia. People like the author are doing historical science a huge disservice. future generations inherited a huge amount of false historical works created for the servants of momentary political trends. And as a result, it is more and more difficult to collect the truth bit by bit from a heap of lies ...
  35. +1
    7 August 2021 10: 45
    If the Russian statehood were created by the Scandinavians, in the Russian language there would be thousands of words from their language associated with such concepts as POWER, LAWS, MONEY, GOVERNANCE, ARMY, TAXES, etc. There is nothing of this, and in the old manuscripts too (Russian Truth of Yaroslav the Wise). There are no traces of Scandinavian languages ​​in Russian at all.
    For comparison - in modern English there are still words brought by the first Norman conquest of England, which took place at about the same time as the "vocation of the Varangians", in the 9th century. I'm not even talking about the second Norman conquest of the 11th century by the French Normans - his contribution to the formation of modern English is simply enormous. Information from the film on the Euronews channel.
    1. 0
      7 August 2021 17: 55
      They did not create statehood. It was even before that, albeit perhaps looser. They simply gave a dynasty that was able to oust the rest and roof these lands almost monopolistically. First, she was able to ride the trade route, and then pull the rest of the land under Kiev. Mogno-Tatars "helped" us more with the state
      England is not an example - it was conquered for a long time and persistently (there was something and from whom to take). Whole areas there were under direct occupation and colonization by the same Danes. And France is there in general across the strait. And without the bastard, cultural exchange would be crazy. German, English and French are in many ways consonant.
      The Scandinavians quickly mastered a foreign culture and built into the local order, changed their faith. Pagans are practical people. The same bastard did not take England with the hammer of Thor, but was completely equipped in European style and with the blessing and help of the Pope, Harald did not rashly send a share to the Vatican and wanted to appoint bishops himself (a big mistake).
      And we have a few hucksters came to Ladoga, a few military men to Novgorod. Even in later times, these areas did not differ in population and good lands. We have a lot of Scandinavian archeology near Novgorod and near Kiev and not only there.
  36. +2
    7 August 2021 11: 40
    Well, the author just says that the Norman theory is a lie and that's it. But he does not give any evidence of the falsity of this theory. But the documents say something else. Here is a modern translation of the treaty dated September 2, 911 between Prince Oleg and Constantinople: "We are from a Russian clan - Karla, Inegeld, Farlaf, Veremud, Rulav, Guda, Ruald, Karn, Freelav, Ruar, Aktevu, Truan, Lidul, Fost, Stemid - sent from Oleg, the great Russian prince, and from all who are under his hand - the bright and great princes, and his great boyars, to you, Leo, Alexander and Constantine, the great autocrats in God, the Greek kings, to strengthen and .. .. "There were several such agreements and everywhere there" We are Russian people .. "and then there is a listing of these" Russians ".
    1. +1
      7 August 2021 12: 01
      Quote: Victor19
      Karl, Inegeld, Farlaf, Veremud, Rulav, Guda, Rwald, Karn, Freelav, Ruar, Aktevu, Truan, Lidul, Fost, Stemid - sent from Oleg, the Russian Grand Duke, and from everyone

      Or, simply, the classic names of that conglomerate of peoples that made up the overwhelming majority of the tribes that lived in the South Baltic area at the end of the first millennium.
      If we draw an analogy with today's day, then we will not find the presence of such names among the Scandinavian peoples.
      And the name Stemis is so generally stands apart.
      And on the other hand, where are the names related to Slavic and mentioned in the PVL - Schek, Lybid, Gostomysl in use now?
      PS
      I baptized my grandchildren here in the spring. So Artyom became Artemy, and Timur - in general - Timofey.
      1. +2
        7 August 2021 12: 53
        Scandinavian names (disambiguation)
        Veremud Vermund male protection
        (or hand)
        Inegeld Ingeldr Ing fire, ardor
        Karl Karl, Karle, Karli man, husband, man
        Oleg Helge (?) Prosperous,
        (later) saint
        Farlof Farlаfr, Farleifr (Norwegian male name):
        travel
        Hoods Gude kind
        Of the 15 names that are not etymologized from the Scandinavian, only three Karn, Aktevu, Truan, one more questionable etymologization (Stemid). Thus, it can be said with great confidence that under Oleg the Scandinavians acted "from the kind of Russian".
  37. +1
    7 August 2021 11: 50
    The artist Ilya Glazunov has the same eyes in all his paintings.
    1. 0
      7 August 2021 16: 45
      So these are the brothers drawn ... And the one on the right - well, the spitting image of a Turkmen! laughing
  38. +3
    7 August 2021 14: 13
    Isn't so many comments too bold for such a worthless article? Phrases from the theories of anti-Normanists are pondered, nothing of their own, just to attract attention. Samsonova to my blacklist of authors
  39. kig
    0
    7 August 2021 17: 14
    This reminds Zhvanetsky: We master a higher style of argument. Dispute without facts. Dispute over temperament. A dispute that moves from an unfounded statement to the identity of a partner.
  40. -1
    7 August 2021 18: 32
    Personally, hearing this wonderful theory about the Vikings, the founders of our state, I immediately begin to laugh. Almost involuntarily) The fact is that the main food that the Vikings consumed in the morning, afternoon and evening was beer. Why this happened, read the same historians who rave about this Normanism))
    In general, the gangs of this drunken, rummaging around Europe in search of where things lie badly and who to hire in order to cut down on beer without much risk (if you read less popular sources, you can find a description of how whole gangs of Vikings fled losing their weapons and prey, seeing only ONE vigilante of the local feudal lord.This was especially widespread during the robbery of the English coast.
    Guys ... Yes, these drunks are convenient to shove their graters, disassembly and grips on. The knights, being by and large the most vile bandits, often did things that had to be categorically denied. And here gangs of drunks always came to the rescue, from whom everyone expected the most nasty. But states ?! Yeah ... this can only come to mind, crowned with some kind of "scientific" title in the "science" of history. A normal person cannot imagine this))
  41. -1
    7 August 2021 20: 52
    The author is a degenerate. It is useless to explain to him that the Vikings had a bunch of cheap, high-quality iron, skills in shipbuilding, navigation and geography, which means they could control trade routes from the Varangians to the Greeks and from the Urals to Persia. It is no coincidence that Muscovy and RI subsequently took titanic efforts to maintain control over these routes ...
    1. 0
      11 August 2021 15: 43
      Why does the site administration not issue a warning and delete the post for obvious insult? All are equal, but some are much more equal?
  42. -1
    7 August 2021 21: 24
    What does the author smoke?
  43. 0
    7 August 2021 22: 28
    The Scandinavians with great pleasure served the Russian princes and did not fight with Russia. At that time it was difficult for the Scandinavians to fight with Rusyuv - the country is large, all rivers are under the control of the locals. there is a squad in every city, I am a match for the Europeans. But the princes paid well. According to contemporaries of the Scandinavians, mercenaries serving Byzantium for a year of service could earn 10 cows, and if they served in Russia, then 100 for a year. Therefore, the Scandinavians willingly served with the Russian princes. Many of the Scandinavians got married and merged into our nation, making it stronger and genetically richer. The Vikings have their own way of life and rich culture. Traces of the Viking culture were found in Novgorod and Pskov during excavations, and this indicates trade. Vikings Russia knew and respected as an independent state, and not an enslaved vassal
  44. 0
    8 August 2021 22: 41
    In order to so indiscriminately accuse thousands of scholars on this topic, one must at least bring arguments from archeology, literature, and documents.
    And it turns out, pi ... nka poison, but it is not clear to say what they wanted.
  45. 0
    8 August 2021 22: 43
    Apparently, in the next article, we will see some solid archaeological and documentary evidence.
  46. 0
    9 August 2021 00: 43
    A very interesting thought sounded on the channel of Klim Zhukov about how the ancient tribes were called - Polyana, Drevlyans and other Slavs. And also Chud, All and other Russia. Maybe this is the key to the solution - where did the land - Russia come from?
  47. 0
    9 August 2021 01: 07
    Honestly, I can't understand what it means to come to rule?
    Different sources say different things - somewhere in a squad, somewhere in three, somewhere in the mass resettlement of an entire people. So how many came in? And then - the land is abundant, but we do not have order. They came to Ladoga and with whom did they communicate there, who told them that? In Ladoga, maybe there is no order, but in "Kupchino", "Volkhovstroy" and other villages? Not to mention the southern extremities up to Rurik's Rus? It is good to look at the map, and to stomp a couple of thousand miles with your feet, through the forests and fields, along the entire length, in order to understand that there is no order and inform that a new leadership has come. How is it in detail? Wait, who is coming !? I am Rurik, your new boss, on behalf of your grandfather from the swamps, who lives a thousand miles from here in the north. He told me to go and rule. Where is my throne? Or at least a stump? And, well, thank Perun, they waited, otherwise the vacancy has been hanging for hundreds of years and no one comes. Here come in, right ...
  48. 0
    9 August 2021 07: 54
    It was 2021, another dude had a complex of national inferiority from events more than 1000 years ago, when there were simply no Russians or anyone else, and even 300 years later, the inhabitants of the lands that are now considered primordially Russian are so will not be called yet.
  49. 0
    9 August 2021 13: 56
    Like, during tsarism

    During the time of tsarist Russia, the Norman theory was already quite official. Here the truth is one thing - it was not "the only correct and exclusively true." It was the subject of discussion among historians of the time.
    Oh yes, dear comrade. author .. in your medieval Russian chronicles, too, de Americans wrote? How did they manage to do this? ;)
    So, literally in a matter of years, the history of Kievan Rus was already taken away from us.

    How in general it is possible to "take away" a part of history from anyone is not clear. It is impossible purely physically.
    As a result, the allegedly Scandinavian dynasty of Rurikovich ruled Russia up to Ivan the Terrible.

    Well, first of all, the last king from the Rurik dynasty on the throne of the Russian Kingdom was Fyodor Ioanovich.
    The XNUMX-year war of the South against the North, and then the West against the East continues.

    About which historians do not know and which never existed in reality.
    called them to rule, collect tribute

    In exchange for protection from external opponents. The Varangians (Vikings) in those days were famous as skillful and powerful warriors. And what has been described is a very common rudiment of what will later turn into feudal social relationships.
    But the culture of the tribes of the Eastern Slavs then really borrowed from Europe. However, the Vikings themselves did the same. And this was also a completely natural process. Only
    Due to illiteracy and simplicity, they distorted a foreign word and became Russian, and the country was nicknamed Rus.
    Then there is a direct linguistic, cultural and mental expansion.

    For example, such an expansion took place throughout the 18th century. It was so successful that by the beginning of the 19th century, French was the main spoken language among the aristocracy of the Russian Empire. AND?
    For example, our children and adolescents know who Spider-Man, Batman and other heroes of American comics and films are.

    And what's so bad about that?
    But few young people know who Perun or Chernobog is.

    Here you understand what the matter is. The problem is that the ancient Slavic legends and myths themselves in their original form have practically not reached us. And non-acquaintance with modern "fictions based on motives", passed off as genuine. history is more a plus than a minus.
  50. 0
    9 August 2021 14: 48
    Samsonov? Why read nonsense?
  51. 0
    9 August 2021 15: 07
    Well, other than abuse, the author seems to have nothing to cover up with. It is strange that the Norman theory works for Saxony and England, and for some reason, supported by historical information, stops working for Russia. The Europeans took the best Vikings for themselves, no less.
    1. -2
      9 August 2021 16: 39
      It's strange that the Norman theory works for Saxony and England

      By the way, yes. After all, the current British monarchy traces its history back to William the Conqueror.
  52. 0
    13 August 2021 07: 09
    Rurik is a Varangian, from the Varangian Sea, according to the modern Baltic states. Rurik lived in Prussia. Then still Slavic. Later it would be conquered and Germanized by the Teutonic Order, the Lyakhs would help. Rurik’s tribe was Russia. And this tribe lived at the mouth of the Neman. In the last century, it illegally went to Lithuania. What the ambassadors said. Our land is great and abundant, but there are no people. This is the main reason. And in order to persuade, they promised the principality. They invited Russia. Its people and their squad. This is the main reason to hold on to their lands.
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  55. 0
    13 August 2021 14: 28
    People, you haven’t read Boris Prokopyevich Sinyukov yet. He writes quite authoritatively that it was the Jews, traveling in search of lakes Balkhash and Baskunchak, who came across the Slavs who then lived in the forests (one must think in the trees). They taught them to read and write (and, at the same time, to say whatever). And, in gratitude for this, they became the first Russian princes. And you are Rurik... Rurik...
  56. wow
    0
    18 August 2021 17: 16
    All such waste paper goes into the oven! And its “authors” too.
  57. 0
    14 September 2021 13: 00
    Rurik comes from Prussia. It was then Slavic until it was conquered by the Teutonic Order with the help of the Poles. Rurik lived at the mouth of the Neman with his family Rus. In the last century, this territory was illegally ceded to Lithuania. Varyag because it is on the shores of the Varangian Sea.
  58. 0
    20 October 2021 15: 59
    The thing is that Sweden, as such, did not exist at that time. The Swedes themselves are aware of this.