"Effective system": in the Czech Republic proposed to use the ZU-23-2 cannon in the fight against drones

At the end of the last war in Nagorno-Karabakh, the attention of many observers is riveted to the problem of countering drones. In the Czech Republic, they proposed not to write off the proven weapon of the Soviet era.

Cannon ZU-23 [more correct - ZU-23-2] is an old weapon, born in the 60s of the last century. She became obsolete relatively quickly, as her capabilities in the fight against modern aircraft became insufficient. And yet the Russian army left the cannon in its arsenal to provide fire support [when working on ground targets]

- noted in the CZDefence edition.

At the same time, it is indicated that some armies, such as the Finnish army, continue to use the ZU-23 to combat air targets:

Not against aircraft, but primarily against low-flying targets, helicopters - and in recent years just against drones. This is a very popular and relatively economical solution.

As explained, the ZU-23 achieves the best results in interaction with light portable anti-aircraft missiles from Russia "Strela-2M" or French "Mistral". Some manufacturers took advantage of this and retrofitted these SAM guns, for example, the Poles, creating the Jodek product. After the addition of a more modern fire control system, more sophisticated optical devices and other innovations, "an unexpectedly effective system appears that can act against a wide range of targets."

According to the author, it is not necessary to use the ZU-23 in the fight against drones. For these purposes, even the more outdated Yugoslavian M-55 guns and other small-caliber guns are suitable.

KBA cannon on the Italian wheeled BMP Freccia:

Comments

[Reserve buildbat]

Now the Czechs will make a self-propelled charger with 4 guns "Jozhin s bazhin"

[URAL72]

You shouldn't laugh. In the Anti-Aircraft Division of the 23th brigade, there is only one such memory, at KamAZ. And it was she who shot down most of the UAVs of the APU that are on the account of the division. For two years now we have had portable electronic warfare systems, they are also very effective, but still. One problem. It is not easy to shoot down a UAV, but it also needs to be picked up. But as soon as the UAV detects the ZU-2-XNUMX, the mortars immediately begin to work. I didn't have time to knock it down - swamp the pedal ...

[Brother]

That's right!
Not WE! and "Our" brothers in mind from Izrail went further, in my opinion VERY correctly, they took the ZU-23-2 as a basis, they installed it on good precise horizontal and vertical aiming mechanics, a powerful optical system with excellent zoom, a small radar for positioning along azimuth and altitude and ALL THIS was made controllable from a computer system to a monitor! with the possibility of combined auto and manual control of the joystick and zoom of the visible target!
In addition, ammunition is being finalized.
And our - vasherashenskie "menagerie" think only where and how to cut the balosiks on a large scale.

[URAL72]

Not WE! and "Our" brothers in mind from Israil went further "

And our - vasherashenskie "menagerie" think only where and how to cut the balosiks on a large scale. "

Well, here you are wrong. The development of anti-aircraft artillery did not stop - after there was Tunguska, and then Shell. So it is not Israel that moves alone. And this is not counting the marine ZAU. It's just that the Russians make a tank, even from an infantry fighting vehicle - a three for example. Therefore, they added rockets, significantly increasing the versatility and efficiency.

[Brother]

Well, well ... just wishful thinking!
They ... DID IT ... in prototypes and conducted many tests ...
We have "talked about this, maybe they drew a couple of three pictures" ...

[Reserve buildbat]

I am not laughing at "Cinderella", but at a "fresh idea".

[Bradley]

In general, the ZU-23-2 has a wide range of applications. And aviation, and light equipment, and drones, and manpower. Two barrels are better than one.

[Popandos]

I read the article, comments, it seems that everyone did not understand the meaning of the article. Those who do not have complexes capable of shooting down light and middle class UAVs for a reasonable price, are forced to collective farms from what is at hand.
We have Carapace, and it was created long before the massive appearance of drones (well done military men, designers and engineers, calculated such a threat in advance). We do not need to collective farms like shaitan carts, we just need to modernize the Shell. Well, mass produce.

[Alexander 3]

Our old Shilka will cope with this task if the control system is updated.

[Zhan]

Quote: Alexander 3

Our old Shilka will cope with this task if the control system is updated.

Well, yes, this "shaitan of the cart" has enough firepower ..
Its modernization ended at the M5 stage.
ZSU-23-4M5 "Shilka-M5" - modernization of ZSU-23-4M4 with the installation of a radar and optical-electronic control system.
But the first was an analog calculating device included in the LMS. It's hard to imagine how this masterpiece looked .. At one time, special officers did not allow us a mile away from these cars.

[Klingon]

Look at the Vietnamese version of the Shilka upgrade. They did a pretty good job there. And a modern MSA with a new radar and OEO and 2PK with missiles

[Alien From]

My dad, the commander of Shilka, always speaks of her with such warmth))

[Nikolaevich I]

Well, and sho good to disappear, if it's still good !? Over there in Tekhmash they once promised to develop shrapnel for ZU-23-2 and ZSU-23-4 ... like 9-A-1611!

Well, plus the installation!

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Does it make sense if they are already working on the Air Defense Derivation project with a 57 mm caliber and several times superior power? Better not to flicker, but to look at the Chinese attempt to adapt the automatic 76-mm naval gun to the ground chassis.
The Italians also had an attempt to create a 76-mm anti-aircraft self-propelled gun, a couple of decades ago.

[Saxahorse]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Over there in Tekhmash they once promised to develop shrapnel for ZU-23-2 and ZSU-23-4 ... like 9-A-1611!

9-A-1611 is just a shrapnel with a plastic leader instead of a copper one. And what is needed for good is shrapnel, i.e. a projectile with a controlled detonation.

[Nikolaevich I]

9-A-1611 is just shrapnel! But it is used like ... "remote tube"! Now, if you replace the "remote tube" with a "programmer" or radio command (laser command) fuse, you can get something interesting!

[Saxahorse]

Where is the remote tube? And most importantly, where is the interface for controlling this tube? There is only an ordinary self-liquidator in case of a miss.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Saxahorse

Where is the remote tube?

Well, the expression "remote tube" is used as a figurative ... I wrote: "like" ... I agree that the expression was unsuccessful ... I had to put it differently! There is no "self-liquidator in case of a miss"! There is a fixed duration remote "fuse" ...

Characteristics of 9-A-1611:

Cartridge weight - 826 g., Projectile - 386 g., Length - 285 mm

28 ready-made submunitions weighing 3.5 grams.

The principle of operation of the ME projectile is as follows:

After the shot, in 1.2-1.5 seconds the bottom expelling charge is triggered, which pushes out the striking elements. Since the speed of the projectile is about 900 m / s, it is necessary to add to it the speed obtained from the actuation of the expelling charge (50 m / s) and the speed of the aircraft from which the shot was fired, it turns out that the projectile will fire at a distance of 1200-1400 meters from the target. A cloud of 28 teardrop-shaped striking elements is formed, stabilized in flight by rotation. The projectile can be equipped with a remote fuse (possibly of the "remote tube" type)
PS I hope I chewed everything I need?

[Saxahorse]

Thank you, I remembered what it was about. Fuse at a fixed distance. This is not suitable for a ground weapon. Unlike an airplane, an anti-aircraft gun cannot approach the drone itself at the required distance.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Saxahorse

Unlike an airplane, an anti-aircraft gun cannot approach the drone itself at the required distance.

But the drone can approach the anti-aircraft gun "at the required distance"! And for this, the modernized anti-aircraft guns use laser rangefinders ... In addition, I began my comment with the words: "like 9-A-1611 ..."! That is, using the Principle ...!

[Saxahorse]

The drone may not approach, or it may suddenly appear closer or pass in a closed (palm tree, for example) sector. That is why just, "like" is not necessary!

We need a full-fledged projectile with programmable detonation. And there are already many such proposals in the West. True, everything starts with at least 30 mm, the smaller the caliber, the more the programmable fuse eats away from the firepower. That is the minus of 23 mm caliber. Today, a 37-57 mm autocannon is much more rational.

[Bad_gr]

On the Internet, I came across a wunderwaffle for Abrams:

In the context of the topic: from a smooth barrel, shot at drones (like on a duck hunt). One problem is that the barrel does not bulge high in tanks.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

There is also a shrapnel shell for our self-propelled guns. The problem is in the mechanical fixed firing device. With the advent of controlled disruption, efficiency should increase.

[Black Colonel]

How many effective shrapnel fit in a 23mm caliber?

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Black Colonel

How many effective shrapnel fit in a 23mm caliber?

Probably a little .... but, as they say, "a double-edged sword"! We will compensate for the insufficient amount of GGE in one projectile by the number of projectiles themselves! Remember what you were valued for, for example. "Shilka" ?! The rate of fire and the ability "per second" to stuff the foe with small. But harmful shells! It is worth considering the fact that there is an assessment, verification of the idea, based on what is at hand ...

[Sands Careers General]

ZU-shka is a thing. Before my eyes, a drone was shot down at night. The beauty)))

Only then I was in a ditch, lying in a gamna, it hurts too much)))

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: General of the Sand Quarries

Only then I was in a ditch, lying in a gamna, it hurts too much)))

This is clearly better than wearing a wooden pea jacket or sharp stones ...

[Sands Careers General]

As my combat instructor says, everyone has a barometer in their ass.
If it works, then fall, and it doesn't matter what is there, a puddle, a stone, or someone gave a shit)))

[stalkerwalker]

The case when disgust harms the state of the body ...

[Sands Careers General]

You can’t argue

[Dart2027]

Reasonable use of old, but still effective technique.

[Galleon]

Guys, even though the ZU-23-2, even the DShK, even the quad maximum - find the main thing. Detect and aim. At those frontiers when these drones still cannot say their "meow".

[Black Colonel]

The key word is "frontiers". 23 mm at what distance is effective?

[A. Privalov]

ZU-23-2 is an old tried-and-true device and, in good hands, will drop anyone it can reach from heaven.
It should be borne in mind that modern drones operate from fairly decent distances and altitudes. In combat conditions, the instructions do not recommend an attack UAV to descend below 2000 m. The optics allow medium drones to work with 5000, therefore, for the ZU-23-2 they will be inaccessible with a large margin.
Such installations will also be ineffective in the fight against swarms of microdrones. But they may well occupy their niche at the distances and heights available to them.

[Gallyamov Iskandar]

Everything new is well forgotten old !!!

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Somehow they were late with ideas. An article from 2013 about the modernization of ZU-23-2 https://topwar.ru/32575-raketno-artilleriyskaya-zushka-modernizaciya-zu-23.html#comment-id-11635016.

[stankow]

Quote: Saxahorse

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Over there in Tekhmash they once promised to develop shrapnel for ZU-23-2 and ZSU-23-4 ... like 9-A-1611!

9-A-1611 is just a shrapnel with a plastic leader instead of a copper one. And what is needed for good is shrapnel, i.e. a projectile with a controlled detonation.

What is given in the cut is shrapnel. Donny fuse, possibly programmable. Probably just a model. Just what you need against drones.

[Adler77]

Nonsense, the experience of a real battle showed that guidance is carried out from heights and distances inaccessible to the ZU - 23, as well as the wasp air defense system. And these installations cannot intercept the released ammunition. Those. there is no point in bothering. It is necessary, in my opinion, to bring to mind the derivation and the carapace.

[mlad]

One of the incentives for the emergence of shilka was the Arab-Israeli conflict when the anti-aircraft missiles forced the Israelis to switch to low-level flight and this could also happen with drones.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Drones are smaller than combat aircraft and it is more difficult to hit them from small-caliber artillery, it is easier to use larger calibers with remote detonation. Even the 30 mm Carapace cannons look preferable in this regard. Although it still makes sense if we compare the cost of 4 ZU-23 / 30M1-4 installations installed on the SAMUM machine and one Air Defense derivation complex. It is necessary to test.

[riwas]

ZU-23-2 against attack drones like the Turkish - only from an ambush. If a drone detects it at a distance farther than the effective range of the ZU-23-2, it will destroy it with a guided weapon.

[Constanty]

It is perplexing that the author writes about the Czech Republic or Finland and not a word about Poland - and in fact in the photo the Polish military unit "Pilica" is here from a different angle.

and the Polish army still uses the ZU-23-2KG "Jodek" produced in Tarnow

or "Hibneryt",.

[Ilya_Nsk]

There is a quadruple towed KPVT. The ballistics are almost the same, but the shot is cheaper, the fire density is higher, and the drone will fly just as cheerfully from the hit of a 14.5 mm bullet as from a 23 mm projectile. It will be cheaper. Another would be radar guidance.
Oops, what kind of drones are we talking about? Hopefully not about "Predators"?