Military Review

Daggers "God's grace"

171

Fencing on rondels. "Book of Fencing" by German fencing master Hans Talhoffer. Bavarian State Library, Munich


"Let it be, knight, everywhere and everywhere
A dagger with you until the end of days
Behind the belt or bosom,
That is, perhaps, rather.
While he is with you, that talisman,
You will go everywhere and everywhere,
And he will cut all the secret networks,
Which you will fall into.
He will cut all the secret bonds at once,
Will not touch only those networks
With which he is tightly bound to you,
That is, perhaps, more true. "
("Dagger" words: P.E. Rummo)

Museum collections of knightly armor and weapons. So, last time we started with the fact that in the Middle Ages there were several types of daggers that were used by both knights and commoners. Often in literature we find such a name for a dagger as "misericordia" - "God's mercy", with which they were just the defeated ones. But this is not a type of weapon. A generalized name for almost all daggers of that time. It was just that they all had the same purpose. Hence the common name! Well, today we continue to get to know them and start with such a popular and deadly perfect dagger as the rondel.

It was known already from the middle of the XIV century, and got its name for the shape of the top of the handle and the guard. Both of these parts were in the form of discs, between which the hand was directly clamped. The discs prevented the hand from sliding off the handle, although they limited the variability of fencing with such a dagger. Obviously, it was intended to deliver powerful thrusting blows. But their blades were of different shapes. Quite often the handle of this dagger, pommel and guard were made in the form of a single one-piece piece. It should be noted that the narrow and faceted blades of the rondels appeared earlier than that of the bullocks, and much earlier than that of the stylets.

That is, it was a purely military dagger. Which, however, was also worn with a casual suit. After all, there have always been people who wanted to emphasize their social belonging. Daggers of this type are depicted in many miniatures and belong to many effigies, which confirms their distribution.

Daggers "God's grace"
Dagger rondel. Unknown master. France, approx. 1400-1450 Materials: steel, copper alloy and wood inlaid. Length: 39,4 cm, weight: 0,41 kg. The dagger was found in a peat bog. There is a copper inlay on the handle. Wallace Collection, London

If before the effigii did not have daggers, then in the transition period from chain-plate armor to all-metal armor, very many have daggers, although still not all. Moreover, they began to be attached in a very original way. If earlier the dagger was worn on the knight's belt on the right, now ... its scabbard was simply attached to the skirt of the cuirass. Most likely there was a leather scabbard loop. But it is quite possible that the scabbard was simply riveted to the skirt so that there was not the slightest possibility of losing it.


For example, the breaststroke of Nicholas Barnell, who died in 1382 by Aston Barnell. As you can see, he has a "dagger with kidneys" hanging from his belt


John Edge, 1392 Shinnor


William Bagot and his wife Margaret, St. John, Badington Warwickshire, 1407. Very nice breaststroke, isn't it?


Another twin tombstone decorated with "brass" and belonging to a certain Thomas Cruvey of Wicksford. His dagger sheath is just attached directly to the skirt of the armor.


Tombstone from the City Museum of Meissen, XNUMXth century. She is wearing a very well-armed man: a sword, a cavalry coin and a dagger. It is not very visible, but it is there. A very rare effigy for a set of weapons. Photo by the author

The "eared dagger" is a very strange weapon that has spread in Europe since the late XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries. It had a pommel in the form of two slightly inclined rounded protrusions, similar to ears. As such, he did not have a guard at all. The smallest type of dagger in medieval Europe. Its origin is unclear. The Turkish scimitar had something similar to his "ears". At this time, Balkan mercenaries appeared in large numbers in the European armies - stradiots who had scimitars. But the scimitar ... it is a scimitar, and its resemblance to the "eared dagger" is only the smallest.


"Long-eared dagger" approx. 1500 Made in Venice, Italy or Spain. Finished with horn and copper alloy details. Length: 21 cm (blade), weight: 0,225 kg. A blade with a protruding edge, cruciform. Short ricassos. Wallace Collection, London

By the way, the shape of the handle of this dagger was generally very popular at that time and is found quite often. For example, you can see her at the knight on this tombstone ...


Robert and Mergaret Barley, 1467, Barlow, Derbyshire


We have before us very interesting Italian effigies of the XIV century (drawing by A. Sheps from the contour drawings by D. Nicolas). Very characteristic armor and weapons. All have overlaid plates made of "boiled leather" decorated with embossing over their chain mail. It is impossible to find out whether they were gilded or not, but Italian craftsmen loved to gild products made of "boiled leather". The two extreme figures of the dagger have typical baselards with H-shaped handles. But the central figure has an unusual dagger. This is clearly a bullock, but ... with two ears! So there could be such hybrids!

It should be noted that the Italians were generally great inventors at that time. Didn't they come up with the famous "Milanese armor" and the Cinquedea dagger? The latter, however, was not chivalrous and is absent in effigia. But the townspeople wore it very often and used it just as often! They appeared somewhere in the 1450-1460s and were popular for a hundred years, and then disappeared from everyday life. For example, such a dagger from the Wallace collection ...


Cinquedea, approx. 1500 Italy. Unknown master. The handle and pommel were restored in the 32,4th century. Materials and technologies: steel, bronze, gold, copper and wood, gilding and etching. Length: 0,6 cm (blade): weight: XNUMX kg. Wallace Collection, London

During the Renaissance, the so-called "Holbein" daggers were also very popular. Here is one of them ...


Dagger with "Holbein" type scabbard. Dark wood handle, ribbed and convex in the center, topped with a gilded bronze rim at the top, with a short boat-shaped guard also in gilded bronze, cut with swirls and traditional flowers; blade "diamond cut" with the manufacturer's stamp on one side. Materials and technologies: steel, wood, bronze, gold and velvet, gilding, carving, perforation and chasing. Length: 24 cm (blade), width: 3,9 cm.Weight: 0,28 kg. Wallace Collection, London

By the beginning of the XNUMXth century, and a dagger with a very thin faceted blade, reminiscent of a stylus - a stick for writing on wax, which served as the basis for its name - stiletto (stiletto). Usually these were small "ladies'" daggers.


A still from the film The Four Musketeers (1974). As Milady Faye Dunaway. I don't really like her outwardly, but her dagger is good. Not quite a stiletto, though. The blade is not the same ...


English or Scottish dagger of 1610 with a richly inlaid gold blade. Just such a Milady would be very suitable ... Wallace Collection, London


And here is a shot, although not in color - a classic of the genre: my lady - Mylène Demonjo is trying to stab D'Artagnan (Gerard Barre) with a stiletto in the 1961 film The Three Musketeers directed by Bernard Borderi

A variation of the XNUMXth century stylet was again the Italian fusetti blade, with a measuring scale applied on it. This weapon was relied on by the state of the Venetian naval artillerymen.


Stiletto with scabbard. OK. 1600 Unknown master. Materials and technologies: steel, gold, silver, wood and leather, bluing and notching. Length: 24,1 cm (blade). Width: 0,8 cm.Weight: 0,125 kg, scabbard - 0,03 kg. Wallace Collection, London


Combined stiletto. OK. 1660 Germany. Unknown master. Material: steel and copper alloy. Length: 36,6 cm (total), blade length: 23,5 cm, width 6,1 cm.Weight: 0,32 kg. The scabbard is a square steel scabbard with beveled edges and four holes, one of which corresponds to a hole on one side of the blade, the others probably served to fix hammered copper ornaments, which, with the exception of one, are currently missing. Wallace Collection, London

Known are the original combined stilettos, representing a whole "headset". For example, the stylet could include a key for cocking the spring of a wheeled pistol, and its hollow handle served as a container for priming powder. The amount of the discharged charge was regulated by the size of the measuring container.

Famous stilettos-compasses. Their blade consisted of two parts, connected by a hinge. It was a handy device, to be sure ...


Italian stylet-compass with a blade, the double blades of which have a triangular cross-section, when connected, form a rhombic blade. OK. 1600 g. Total length: 52,5 cm, blade length 40,3 cm, weight 0,87 kg. Wallace Collection, London

Interestingly, the views of weapon historians on some of its types have changed greatly over time. For example, the same Vendalen Beheim, who seemed to be well versed in weapons, once wrote that a parrying dagger with an openable (he has a "scattering blade") served to ... expand the wound. "After striking, they pressed on the spring and quickly pulled the blade out of the wound in an already open position". The editorial staff of the St. Petersburg Orchestra publishing house, which republished his book Encyclopedia of Weapons in 1995, considered it necessary to write in a footnote to this phrase that such blades served to catch the enemy's weapons and were largely a means of psychological influence. And the prick itself with such a dagger happens so quickly that this is hardly possible at all. Although for some fantasy, this use of a dagger with a blade that opens into three parts is not a bad idea at all!


Parrying dagger, 1620 Germany. Materials: steel, copper, gold, gilding. Overall length: 34,1 cm, blade length 20,5 cm.Weight: 0,705 kg. Hexagonal blade. After pressing the button, the latch is released on the ricasso and it is divided into three parts. Wallace Collection, London


A shot with a dagger from the movie "The Last Relic" (1969). A beautiful dagger was made for the main character, to be sure ...

It remains to say a few words about the dagger from the movie "The Last Relic" (1969), where exactly this weapon plays a very important role. Outwardly, it is very similar to the stiletto from the Wallace collection, but it is larger in size. However, some examples of edged weapons were not spawned by the wild imagination of its masters. Not to mention the fact that almost anything could be done for cinema too.

And the last one is the combined daggers, one of which is shown in the photo below.


This is a combined weapon, combining a dagger with a pistol, the work of the master Matteo Cecchi, nicknamed Aquafreska (1651-1738). OK. 1690 Dimensions: 26,35 cm, barrel length 16,51 cm. Caliber 12,2 mm. Blade: 15,88 cm long.Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

However, it is possible and necessary, of course, to tell in more detail about combined weapons. It will be about him next time ...

PS Photo effigy provided by the British Society of Medievalists.

To be continued ...
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  1. Korsar4
    Korsar4 9 June 2021 05: 04
    +11
    The name "Holbein's daggers" is interesting. The plots are eternal, so they are reflected on the daggers.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 9 June 2021 05: 48
      +10
      For example, the stylet could include a key for cocking the spring of a wheeled pistol, and its hollow handle served as a container for priming powder.

      And what is quite universal and even convenient, keys have an unpleasant property to get lost. wink


      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 June 2021 06: 12
        +7
        Hello!
        Thank you Vyacheslav for the article!
        We are looking forward to dagger-inkwells, dagger-knuckles, dagger-monocles, etc.
        Regards, Vlad!
        1. kalibr
          9 June 2021 07: 02
          +8
          Yes, Vladislav is an interesting and very interesting topic. But it is difficult to find the material. That is, I do not want to rewrite Beheim, and in addition to this, there are different artifacts in different museums. But work is going on ...
          1. Richard
            Richard 9 June 2021 08: 46
            +6
            The "Eared Dagger" is a very strange weapon that has spread in Europe since the late XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries. It had a pommel in the form of two slightly inclined rounded protrusions, similar to ears. As such, he did not have a guard at all. The smallest type of dagger in medieval Europe. Its origin is unclear. The Turkish scimitar had something similar to its "ears".

            Why is it not clear? There are no problems with the origin of the "eared" dagger of the Oreillepoignard type.
            The birthplace of this type of dagger, which became fashionable in the West in the XIV century, is the Moorish part of Spain, where it was worn in the XIII century. From the beginning of the XNUMXth century, this often richly decorated weapon was already worn in Italy, and especially it became fashionable in the territory north of the Alps. "
            a photo: dagger Oreillepoignard of the Emir of Granada Muhammad XII (Boabdil) of the Alhambra. Madrid Prado Museum (Spanish: Museo Nacional del Prado)

            link: Stefan Nordop "European dagger of the early and late Middle Ages 15-16 century. History. Description. Types. Catalog." Brussels 1962, Krauge Publishing House. page 257
            1. kalibr
              9 June 2021 09: 30
              +5
              Quote: Richard
              Stefan Nordop "European dagger of the early and late Middle Ages 15-16 century. History. Description. Types. Catalog." Brussels 1962,

              What was clear in the 1962 edition may not be entirely clear in later editions, such as museum editions. So there is absolutely nothing ... Who uses what sources.
            2. Mikhail3
              Mikhail3 10 June 2021 12: 38
              0
              Quote: Richard
              Why is it not clear? There are no problems with the origin of the "eared" dagger of the Oreillepoignard type.

              As it is. Does the link you give carry at least some information? Absolutely none. Complete zero. What really matters? WHY there was such a top.
              A combat weapon has no "unimportant" parts. Hence, these strange mugs had a certain tactical meaning. Which one? This is really important, because knowing the characteristics of old weapons allows you to design modern ones. And the links you cited are only suitable for "tying the dagger to the historical period and locality", that is, to determine its price as an antique item. In my memory, the site is called "Military Review" and not "Antiques".
          2. RealPilot
            RealPilot 10 June 2021 03: 09
            0
            Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the continuation of the daggers!

            This is a very interesting topic, very little studied by the majority, known mainly to specialists ... To which I do not belong. So it will be interesting to know something else for your taste about this type of weapon.
            1. kalibr
              10 June 2021 06: 31
              +1
              There will be a continuation, do not worry. And not one!
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 9 June 2021 08: 56
      +3
      Quote: Korsar4
      "Holbein's daggers"

      Adopted for service in Nazi Germany.
      1. kalibr
        9 June 2021 09: 19
        +7
        Served as a model, let's say ..
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 9 June 2021 20: 26
        +3
        For armament, this is somehow too loudly said, the daggers are purely ceremonial, but, of course, you can kill.
        Dagger SS.

        Dagger SA.

        Dagger NPEA.
      3. Fat
        Fat 10 June 2021 04: 53
        +2
        For all the similarities, Nazi daggers are not Holbein's. This is a Swiss dagger.
        Some Swiss daggers are called Holbein's daggers, thanks in particular to the stories of the artist Hans Holbein the Younger, used in the design of the scabbard. Many famous Swiss artists, including Urs Graf, Heinrich Aldegrever, created sketches for decorating the scabbard. Usually they are devoted to biblical or mythological subjects.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 10 June 2021 09: 15
          0
          Quote: Thick
          This is a Swiss dagger.

          I know. Shpakovsky corrected me correctly.
  2. Van 16
    Van 16 9 June 2021 05: 46
    +11
    Very interesting, however, as always.
    A small amendment that doesn't affect anything - if I'm not mistaken, "The Four Musketeers" is a fun French movie with "Charlot", Dunaway played in Hollywood's "The Three Musketeers" hi
    1. kalibr
      9 June 2021 05: 57
      +8
      It may very well be, Ivan. I copied this from the Internet without checking, precisely because it does not really affect anything. It is a pity that there is an error on an error ...
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 9 June 2021 06: 44
        +8
        Greetings to the venerable meeting!
        Hello Vyacheslav Olegovich!
        I read it with great interest, thank you!
        As for the film adaptations, two films were shot with Faye Dunaway as Milady: * The Three Musketeers. The Queen's Pendants. * 1973 and * The Four Musketeers. Milady's Revenge. * 1974 So you are right. But Ivan was also French. comedy film with the participation of the group * Charlot * with the same name * The Four Musketeers *.
        1. kalibr
          9 June 2021 06: 49
          +6
          Thank you, Sergey, for clarifying. I watch movies, of course, but rarely, and I have a bad memory for the names of film actors. Generally on the names. I. It is clear that you often have to trust the Internet.
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 9 June 2021 07: 09
          +8
          Hello, Sergey!

          In my opinion, the best Milady ... and the only one. yes
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 9 June 2021 08: 23
            +7
            Hi Konstantin!
            Not even discussed, a very beautiful and bright woman.

            This could seduce anyone. good
            1. Richard
              Richard 9 June 2021 10: 07
              +10
              the best Milady.

              "Hello,Check mark Cardinal, you are about to die Yakin Dartanyan threw his kikimora, well, and persuaded me to fly with him to Gagra "(c) wink
          2. kalibr
            9 June 2021 08: 24
            +5
            Same opinion at all times!
        3. Van 16
          Van 16 9 June 2021 08: 58
          +6
          Aha, it turns out I was still mistaken, hoped for memory, did not check, and as it turned out, in vain.
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, my apologies, Sergey, thanks for the accuracy hi
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 9 June 2021 08: 05
        +6
        Vyacheslav, good morning! hi
        I found here a few funny examples of "combined weapons", in fact, they, from different times and peoples, have spawned fairly.


        1. kalibr
          9 June 2021 08: 25
          +5
          Oh, the lower dagger in the photo, with a shell at the guard, I have ...
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 9 June 2021 08: 41
            +6
            This is a Turk, if I am not mistaken. And I am impressed by the top, a kind of butcher's "messenger", and even with a pistol - to shoot the pig and chop it into cutlets right there, that's probably German work. laughing
  3. Richard
    Richard 9 June 2021 06: 11
    +11
    cinquedea dagger

    Cinquedea, approx. 1500 Italy. Unknown master. The handle and pommel were restored in the 32,4th century. Materials and technologies: steel, bronze, gold, copper and wood, gilding and etching. Length: 0,6 cm (blade): weight: XNUMX kg. Wallace Collection, London

    Vyacheslav Olegovich hi
    This type of dagger is not called cinquedea - but cinquede!
    (from Italian cinquedea - which translates as "five fingers")
    Kigjal is common in northern Italy from 1450 to 1550. It was comfortable to wear and in close range combat. Appearing in Florence and Venice, it quickly spread throughout Italy, France and Burgundy, and then in Germany, France and England, where it was called “ox tongue”.
    The cinqueda was worn in a horizontal position behind the back.
    1. Richard
      Richard 9 June 2021 06: 34
      +6
      The dagger of the Cinquede was also noted in Russian history. Heinrich Staden in his "Notes on Muscovy" writes:
      Some [of the former grand dukes] started the oprichnina orders, but nothing came of it. It also happened under the current Grand Duke, until he took the princess, Prince Mikhail Temryukovich, a daughter from the Cherkassk land as his wife. It was she who gave the Grand Duke advice that he would select 500 riflemen from his people and generously grant them clothes and money, and that they would follow him every day, day and night, and guard him. With this, the Grand Duke Ivan Vasilyevich of All Russia began and selected a special chosen detachment from his people, as well as from foreigners. And so he arranged oprichnina and zemstvo.
      And Princess Maria was smart, perceptive and beautiful, but with a heavy, wild look. She always wore a precious ox tongue - the Latin cinqueeda - at her belt.
      They say that when Prince Ivan brought her to the chamber with treasures to give her, she rejected gold and stones, and took this dagger. They also say that she puts a candle on him at night and wonders

      URL:
      1. Heinrich Staden. Notes on Muscovy
      Life and culture of the Circassians (inaccessible link)
      2.Henrich Staden. Notes of the German oprichnik. Compilation and comments by Ph.D. S. Yu. Shokareva, M., 2002
    2. Fat
      Fat 9 June 2021 06: 45
      +5
      Dmitriy hi ... Quite simply, in Italian "5" is correctly pronounced "cinque".
      1. Richard
        Richard 9 June 2021 06: 56
        +9
        Muskva is pronounced, but the city is called Moscow. So this classic type of dagger has its common name - cinquede hi
        1. kalibr
          9 June 2021 08: 27
          +7
          Quote: Richard
          common name - cinquede

          Richard, you don't have to be a rationalist ... Different sources have different names.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 9 June 2021 08: 39
            +6
            In my opinion, the easiest way is to find out what it is called in Italy.
          2. Richard
            Richard 9 June 2021 09: 40
            +8
            Richard, you don't have to be a rationalist ... Different sources have different names.

            Here you go. Call names immediately.laughing
            Is the author offended? Well, nothing, now I will give you Vyacheslav Olegovich and all connoisseurs of the beauty of edged weapons I will make such a gift - in a moment you will forget about all the insults. yes
            We put out the light. Drumroll. Prize in the studio!
            Dagger of the Medici cinquede
            Italy, manufactured around 1480. The total length of the weapon is 835 mm, the length of the blade is 660 mm.
            The blade of a typical Cinquedean shape is very wide at the heel, sharply tapering to the point, double-edged, straight. Equipped with a whole system of shallow but wide valleys. In the fort of the blade there are 4 of them, in the middle there are 3, in the working part 2.
            The forte of the blade is richly engraved with solid gilding. The engraving depicts scenes from the myth of Artemis and Actaeon, portrait medallions of a noble woman and a noble man, surrounded by floral patterns (including vines).
            The crosspiece of the weapon, steel, curved in a semicircle towards the blade - "arched" type, with engraved "trophies", musical instruments and gilding. Also in the center of the cross on one side there is an abbreviated inscription: "LAVR • MED" (LORENZO DE MEDICI). On the other - the coat of arms of the Medici family.
            Handle with ivory overlays held in place by three filigree gilded bronze rivets. Bronze horseshoe-shaped pommel with relief pattern, gilded.
            This blade, in a very rich finish and excellent condition, was sold at Hessink's Auctioneers in 2009 for £ 48.
            1. Richard
              Richard 9 June 2021 09: 43
              +6
              Close-up from different angles.
              Pictures are enlarged if desired








              1. kalibr
                9 June 2021 10: 19
                +7
                Great! Well done, you have found such a thing. Only I was not offended at all. I just do not like erection to the absolute. Different sources, different names. There is a felchen, there is a falchion ... there is a sallet, a sallet, there is a salad ... There is a burgonet, there is a bourguignot ... So it is here.
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 9 June 2021 10: 02
              +5
              The total length of the weapon is 835 mm, the length of the blade is 660 mm.
              Figase, dagger! It will be more authentic than any other falsehood. And how to carry it "behind your back in a horizontal position? To pass sideways in the door?" wassat
              1. Richard
                Richard 9 June 2021 10: 17
                +7
                "A large dagger for a small
                For such a small surname
                For such a modest surname
                Indiscreet dagger
                Oh, it would only be like this
                Oh, it would only be like this
                What could be used to pass through the door "(c) smile
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 9 June 2021 06: 56
        +7
        As, for example, near La Spezia, the Cinque Terre is (Five Lands).
        1. Fat
          Fat 9 June 2021 07: 02
          +7
          hi Sergey. Of course. Cinquecento of the 500th (16th century), well, or the "popular" name of the Fiat model "five hundred". yes
    3. kalibr
      9 June 2021 06: 58
      +8
      “The Cinqueda, or Cinquedea (from the Italian“ cinquedea ”- literally“ divine hand ”) has several characteristic features that set it apart from the rest of the bladed weapon. Took this from the internet. Previously, the second name was more often used ... And Beheim even called it "ox tongue" - or "five fingers" - cinque dita - did not even begin to insert it.
  4. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 9 June 2021 07: 08
    +10
    I was interested in the drawing from the fence. Obviously, the artist did not paint abstract models, but quite specific people.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 9 June 2021 10: 21
      +7
      They say most of the erroneous judgments begin with the words "it is obvious that ..." smile
      For me, for example, this is not at all obvious, even after detailed consideration.
      Why did you think so, Anton?
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 9 June 2021 10: 24
        +6
        Michael! hi
        Drawing details of the face.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 9 June 2021 11: 41
          +9
          I think they are still too similar to be different. Costumes, height, hairstyles, lack of facial hair ... When I paint, my faces are all different too. I'm bad at drawing ... smile
          Here's another interesting series of pictures from the same tutorial. smile



          This is a judicial duel between a man and a woman: the beginning, the climax and the end. It's funny.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 11: 51
            +9
            This is a judicial duel between a man and a woman: the beginning, the climax and the end. It's funny.

            They say "no painting can hurt." what Mikhail, I declare authoritatively, the latter can! stop Straight heart sank ... belay
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 9 June 2021 11: 58
              +10
              The caption to the last picture: "Well, now you agree to marry me?" laughing
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 12: 27
                +10
                The caption to the last picture: "Well, now you agree to marry me?"

                And the defeated character ... has more than "marry"? .. belay
                But I understood the literal meaning of the expression: "take by the genitals" ...
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 9 June 2021 13: 19
                  +7
                  Quote: Pane Kohanku
                  is there anything left to "marry"? ..

                  It seems to me still yes. But a lot depends on his answer. smile
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 13: 23
                    +7
                    It seems to me still yes. But a lot depends on his answer.

                    A woman is a weak, vulnerable creature, from which absolutely impossible to escape... yes Ladies, we adore you! love
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 9 June 2021 20: 42
                      +3
                      Ladies, we adore you!

                      It happens, you know, that "hunting is worse than bondage." wink
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 9 June 2021 22: 47
                        +3
                        “- Crocodile?
                        Know, sir "(c).
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 9 June 2021 22: 56
                        +2
                        From the series "Chukchi the Hunter", or the hunt for Noser. drinks
                      3. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 9 June 2021 23: 06
                        +2
                        “He thought - in front of him is a giraffe,
                        Lotto player.
                        I rubbed my eyes - and in front of him
                        On the coat hanger "(c).
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 9 June 2021 23: 08
                        +2
                        "Thoughtful fellow, Share, it hurts hard,
                        Like a secular tithe, the Old Russian village. "(C)
                      5. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 9 June 2021 23: 13
                        +2
                        “What is my share -
                        I brought it to Siberia ”(c).
                      6. Catfish
                        Catfish 9 June 2021 23: 22
                        +2
                        "I told him, taverns and women will bring to the zugunder." (C)
                      7. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 10 June 2021 02: 39
                        +2
                        “I am the same as you are lost,
                        I can’t go back ”(c).
                      8. Catfish
                        Catfish 10 June 2021 04: 12
                        +2
                        "Rash, harmonica! Rash, my frequent!
                        Drink, otter! Drink! "(S)
  • Catfish
    Catfish 9 June 2021 20: 40
    +3
    Misha, hello, what is the signature for the middle picture? smile
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 9 June 2021 22: 45
      +3
      Hello Uncle Kostya. To the second signature - for a couple of bans. There, in short, what, to whom and where. smile
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 9 June 2021 22: 47
        +2
        Well, directly - "What? Where? When?" laughing
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 9 June 2021 12: 05
    +6
    Ordalia. Strange, I thought that by this time this method had been widely supplanted by the "inquisito" ...
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 9 June 2021 13: 40
      +7
      If I remember correctly, the Inquisition also used hordes. Apparently, there were not enough qualified inquisitors capable of making informed judgments on complex issues, they continued to rely directly on the will of the main patron.
      If I were an inquisitor, I would only experience water.
      Drowned - innocent - no hassle. And justice is restored (the innocent is justified and honorably betrayed into the hands of the Lord), and the crayfish are full at the bottom. And I love boiled crayfish.
      Surfaced - well, there is nothing to do here, since the guilt is proven, it will have to be burned. Even if it's beautiful, then you still need to burn it. I don't like this business - to burn a living person like this, but work is work. You should have drowned in time.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 9 June 2021 13: 57
        +6
        Well, if I remember correctly, fights between a man and a woman were in the legal area of ​​the then Administrative Offenses Code, that is, disputes between business entities (exception: claims for the protection of honor and dignity). To attract the Dominicans to such matters is more expensive for themselves, they will squeeze out half of what they are looking for. Togoeva gives similar examples.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 9 June 2021 18: 34
          +2
          Disputes between a man and a woman are only in the property sphere, if I understand correctly. Honor is the prerogative of exclusively noble and exclusively men. The rest of the population, as it was understood then, simply could not have it by definition.
          As far as I understand, the church was involved in property disputes if there was a violation of the oath - that's the only way. Although, again, I'm not sure.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 9 June 2021 19: 08
            +2
            Uffff .... No. "And it was like this ..." (C)
            Even during the "high Middle Ages" any woman, of any class, had the opportunity to achieve "truth", at least through the horde. To involve the Church in civil disputes - God forbid!
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 9 June 2021 20: 18
              +1
              Yes, I agree. But the concept of "honor" was monopolized by the noble class. Commoners could have interests protected by law, including by a duel, and by hordes, but nothing more. In the defense of their interests, women, as we see, could well participate, in the defense of honor, theoretically, too, but I had heard about duels among ladies exclusively in relation to the New Time. Usually men were engaged in the defense of the honor of a noble (!) Lady.
              Property interests - to everyone, honor - only to the nobles.
              The church could be involved in disputes, including property disputes, but only if it was about an oath, its violation or improper performance, that is, the church court certified the validity of the oath and the fact of its violation or execution, could also authorize from the oath and etc. Often the church was involved as an arbitrator.
              I now doubt whether the presence of a representative of the church was obligatory at the hordeals or judicial fights, apparently not, but here I, again, am not sure.
              Here, one should not confuse the concept of "church" in the person of its hierarchs and "inquisition". They are not the same thing. The Inquisition was involved exclusively in matters of faith and ritual, no doubt about that.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 9 June 2021 20: 39
    +2
    And why is the man sitting in the pit? It's not fair! And what is typical, both beat each other in causal places. Eh, audience ...
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 11: 40
    +7
    Obviously, the artist did not paint abstract models, but quite specific people.

    You mean the cover photo in the article? Alternative title: "Four Neanderthals are playing with a piercing-cutting, shyly covering the coffins with their paws" ... lol
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 9 June 2021 12: 15
      +4
      Uh-huh. Serso is played.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 12: 23
        +5
        Uh-huh. Serso is played.

        If you take the film "1814", then the "siskin" is cooler than the serso.

        By the way, the first documented domestic serial killer. No, not Garmash - his character.
  • Richard
    Richard 9 June 2021 07: 12
    +11
    Famous stilettos-compasses. Their blade consisted of two parts, connected by a hinge. It was a handy device, to be sure ...

    a photo stylet compass.





    The dagger-compass consists of two sliding pivoting rods with triangular blades, fastened in the head by a hinge. The upper parts of the rods are figured; when moved, they form a handle with a cross, having a shape typical for stylets of the late XNUMXth-first half of the XNUMXth century. The ends of the cross are made in the form of slightly flattened balls. The middle part of the cross when moving the rods forms a massive rectangular block.
    The total length is 409 mm, the length of the triangular part of the blades is 270 mm, the width of the two blades in the closed position is 14,7 mm, the width of the wide edge of each blade is 14,2 mm.
    1. Richard
      Richard 9 June 2021 07: 31
      +6
      For example, the same Vendalen Beheim, who seemed to be well versed in weapons, once wrote that a parrying dagger with an openable (he has a "scattering blade") served to ... expand the wound. "After striking the blow, they pressed on the spring and quickly pulled the blade out of the wound in an already open position." The editorial staff of the St. Petersburg Orchestra publishing house, which republished his book Encyclopedia of Weapons in 1995, considered it necessary to write in a footnote to this phrase that such blades served to catch the enemy's weapons and were largely a means of psychological influence.

      And Stefan Nordop suggests that the edge of the cloak was passed and clamped into the fork, which was then wrapped around the arm. Through such simple manipulations, the protection of the hand and the ability to grip the opponent's blade are obtained.
      However, this is also only one of the versions. And why, in fact, I myself am interested to find out. ))
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 9 June 2021 07: 54
      +5
      It remains to understand, what for is he needed?
      Dmitry! hi
      1. Richard
        Richard 9 June 2021 07: 56
        +4
        Good morning Anton. How did you rest?
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 9 June 2021 08: 00
          +4
          Thank you, not bad, I hope, just like you.
  • Richard
    Richard 9 June 2021 07: 45
    +10
    And here is another type of half-dagger common in the 15-16 centuries - half-spear - alshpis.
    a photo typical alshpis from southern Germany, early 16th century.

    Long, square point. At the base on all four sides of the hallmark of the Vienna Arsenal. Round disc-shaped guard

    In this medieval miniature, a warrior armed with an alshpis ..... uh-uh, well, you see for yourself

    Alshpis disappears from use at the beginning of the 17th century, with the departure of the era of the use of solid plate armor and a change in infantry tactics. The need for such a highly specialized weapon was gone. But in the 15-16 centuries, this little-known nowadays type of dagger-spear was used very widely.
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 9 June 2021 08: 25
      +9
      Hi Dmitry!
      The last figure shows a very specific use! laughing
      1. depressant
        depressant 9 June 2021 09: 15
        +9
        Good morning, Seryozha! Greetings to all!)))
        The miniature touched. But this scoundrel did not poke his alshpis, say, next to him - in the buttock, which is curable, but directly into such an internal organ that not every doctor can reach, even if a person gets to a doctor.
        1. kalibr
          9 June 2021 09: 23
          +7
          The enemy, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, must not only be killed, but killed so that he would suffer for a longer time and his colleagues, looking at his torment, would be horrified. Even if you humanely leave your enemy alive, you should smash his fingers with a hammer or shoot him in the knees.
          1. depressant
            depressant 9 June 2021 09: 35
            +6
            I know, Vyacheslav Olegovich, it has been read many times.
            And all the more deep is my sadness. I grieve in my thoughts about the inhumanity of man and I cannot say that now, in the era of mixing civilizations, it has become better. The only thing that frail humanism rushed to and reached, and then under the pressure of the effectiveness of the battle, is firearms. A wounded or captured person is no longer beaten on the fingers with a hammer as an obligatory ritual. Do not chop off your hands. And so ... I'm sure they do not use it during interrogations on occasion.
            1. kalibr
              9 June 2021 12: 19
              +4
              Quote: depressant
              I’m sure they do not use it during interrogations on occasion.

              When I was studying "Military Translation" at school and was learning to interrogate, I suggested inserting red pepper, turned inside out, into the anus ...
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 9 June 2021 12: 37
                +4
                Hmm. You can still have a match in the urogenital canal. To light it or not depends on the client. Find a topic for conversation or not. This is what watching such pictures leads to. laughing
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 13: 32
                  +3
                  Hmm. You can still have a match in the urogenital canal. Whether to light it or not depends on the client.

                  I’m learning more and more about you, Sergei! I feel that you will always find entertainment for yourself ... good drinks
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 9 June 2021 13: 41
                    +4
                    Yes, this is an old way, but in terms of torture in leaders, Asians have a clear advantage: Chinese, Japanese and so on, so on, so on.
                    1. Baron pardus
                      Baron pardus 9 June 2021 20: 34
                      +1
                      When they say to me "such and such, it has withstood all the torture" I begin to laugh wildly. IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. When the brow slowly, tastefully break the phalanges of the fingers with pliers, and then the joints of the fingers, first on the legs, and then on the hands. Slowly, thoughtfully, then the person will say everything that he knows and everything that he does not know. First the phalanx, then the interphalangeal joints, then again the phalanx. Etc. Our teacher told us at the NVP ... He said that nothing is needed, neither cut nor burn, just pliers. By the way, you can file your teeth with a file. With these same pliers you can tear the nasal and ear cartilages and crush the nasal bones ... Tearing your lips ... slowly .. We had a cool CWP teacher :-) By the way, the "terrible" Inquisition often used this technique. I hung the chela on a rack, so that I could stand, but I couldn't really escape. they laid out "instruments" in front of him, and then the executioners were "called" somewhere. And they left for 3-4 hours, and then they came and said, "Listen, they called us here, we just forgot about you, delayed, well, let's start." And the accused told EVERYTHING, even before they even touched him with a finger. It's just that his imagination perfectly drew him what they would do with him, since the props are there :-).

                      By the way, the US Armed Forces directly tell you that when you see that they will take you seriously now, tell everything you know, your task is to SURVIVE, you will settle with them later. Fortunately, if you are a soldier, or even a captain, then you cannot know anything important by definition. At first, immediately name the surname, name, personal number, rank, position and part. And when they decide to take you seriously, do EVERYTHING to SURVIVE. Survive and get even later. You can outwit now, outwit. Pretend, lie, do EVERYTHING you are told, but if you can, so that it turns out even worse. The best example is when our guy, during the Vietnam War, recorded on camera what the Vietnamese told him to say, and blinked his eyes in Morse code and told him where he was being held :-). But John McCain, even passed the names of the children of his ComEsk ... BEFORE they touched him with a finger. And this despite the fact that the Vietnamese did not even ask him about the children of his KomEsk.
          2. Phil77
            Phil77 9 June 2021 09: 51
            +6
            Shoot your knees? Is this something of I.R.A.'s intimidation actions?
            1. kalibr
              9 June 2021 10: 15
              +4
              Quote: Phil77
              Is this something from I.R.A.'s intimidation actions?

              And the drug lords of Colombia!
              1. depressant
                depressant 9 June 2021 13: 18
                +4
                Well, guys ... No words! recourse
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 9 June 2021 13: 44
                  +4
                  Yes, Lyudmila Yakovlevna. Something today ... we were playing naughty. Probably the painting worked? Inappropriately. laughing
                  1. kalibr
                    9 June 2021 14: 01
                    +2
                    Here Sergey, you do not want to read my novel "Three from Ensk", but there is simply a mass of absolutely exciting scenes of violence and murder! In all three books!
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 9 June 2021 14: 49
                      +2
                      Vyacheslav Olegovich, and who you forgive me for? laughing
                      Seriously, your novel is on my * to read * list. soldier
                  2. depressant
                    depressant 9 June 2021 14: 04
                    +3
                    Yeah. The bloodthirsty instincts of real men climbed out, not to leave nature, not to lose heart, because she is inside wassat
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 15: 29
                      +2
                      Yeah. The bloodthirsty instincts of real men climbed out, not to leave nature, not to lose heart, because she is inside

                      We're kidding! request Although in life it is better not to engage in such things, and not to deal with such things ...
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 9 June 2021 09: 52
          +3
          Good morning Lyudmila Yakovlevna! We will certainly talk! I am somehow now at work. wink
          1. depressant
            depressant 9 June 2021 14: 06
            +3
            Seryozha, the morning has long been colored with a gray fog, and a foggy day has come, we communicate little by little))))
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 9 June 2021 14: 52
              +2
              A foggy day gradually turns into a foggy evening. Then ... a foggy night! Yes, the summer has begun sadly. The weather is not happy.
              1. depressant
                depressant 9 June 2021 17: 16
                +1
                Have you noticed? The excess moisture is such that the soil is saturated to the top. Because of this, even when the day is dry, I mean the absence of rain, as soon as you look out at the sun, the trees are enveloped in radiance - the leaves do not just shine, they sparkle, because from the inside they are very saturated with water. This usually happens a day or two a year after the appearance of young leaves. And here for two weeks like fireworks. But the malicious recent rain literally burned the leaves on the plums under the windows - black, curled up, ecology!
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 11: 42
      +5
      In this medieval miniature, a warrior armed with an alshpis ..... uh-uh, well, you see for yourself

      Sergei Mikhailov and I usually joke that this is an indicative and punitive esponton. laughing Dmitry, great comments! good drinks
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 9 June 2021 12: 17
        +4
        Oh, those "children of Captain Mikhailov"! laughing tongue
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 12: 34
          +4
          Oh, those "children of Captain Mikhailov"!

          Oh, these storytellers. Oh, those minnesingers! laughing drinks
          1. depressant
            depressant 9 June 2021 13: 36
            +5
            MORNING SONG.
            Of the minnesingers (me).

            He was winged and he crept
            thrusting your sharp basellard
            into my wrist! By a sly tack
            went through the cracks, formidable Ard!

            And, behold, the hand hurts, becoming numb,
            and fingers swell ... How can I
            sow imperishable now?
            Does all evil happen in a dream?

            And he, having drunk innocent blood,
            nestling on a vast puddle,
            breeds similarity with a resounding roar
            and without a cross, and without being baptized!

            The song was written in the footsteps of today's morning events, and now I am almost disabled, my hand is working! wassat ))))
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 13: 54
              +3
              The song was written in the footsteps of today's morning events, and now I am almost disabled

              Lyudmila Yakovlevna, who bit? What's with the hand?
              1. kalibr
                9 June 2021 14: 03
                +3
                Lyudmila is our invalid, her arm hurts! - this is all the poetic "skill" of which I am capable.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 14: 15
                  +4
                  this is all the poetic "skill" of which I am capable.

                  And if in blank verse? wink

                  A furry bumblebee bit Lyudmila,
                  Her arm was painfully swollen.
                  There is no more strength to hold the parchment -
                  It remains only to write on the forum about life!

                  Lyudmila Yakovlevna! We respect you! love
                  Spit on the bumblebee and the mosquito -
                  Pour yourself a hundred grams of red
                  After all, tomorrow will be (for sure!) Better than yesterday!

                  I'm practically Shakespeare! No, cooler - Baratynsky! drinks

                  It's time to write down tiktoki ... There, they say, any DPR with a certificate from the Good Doctor quickly becomes a millionaire ... fellow
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 9 June 2021 15: 06
                    +4
                    I'm practically Shakespeare!
                    Uh-huh. Siksbeer - "six beers".
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 15: 12
                      +4
                      Uh-huh. Siksbeer - "six beers".

                      I don't drink beer. stop And don't offer it, striped one! drinks
                      "The cry is like thunder -
                      "give people rum!"
                      fellow
                      But I like this better:
                      "The abbot has entered the traaaaktir ..." hi By the way, has anyone seen Viktor Nikolaevich? wink
                    2. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 15: 33
                      +4
                      Uh-huh. Siksbeer - "six beers".

                      The minstrel is extremely handsome
                      Golden-eyed and golden-handed.
                      Pan Kohanku - bald tambourine,
                      Sometimes he is suddenly obscene.
                      drinks

                      Self-critical? wink
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 9 June 2021 16: 17
                        +3
                        Practically Egil Skalagrimsson.
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 16: 50
                        +4
                        Practically Egil Skalagrimsson.

                        I don’t know him. stop I know Carlson PaneKohansson. Zen is above all! yes
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 9 June 2021 17: 15
                        +3
                        I don’t know him.
                        Come on! Seriously?
                        Egil Skalagrimsson is the most famous Icelandic footballer!
                        He's cooler than Vinnie Jones!
            2. depressant
              depressant 9 June 2021 14: 43
              +4
              Don't pretend, Vyacheslav Olegovich! You are a real children's poet - not everyone is given good drinks wassat )))))
          2. depressant
            depressant 9 June 2021 14: 41
            +5
            Yes mosquito, mosquito! wassat )))
            The hand is swollen, even the fingers, the wrist hurts wildly, as it happens when you stretch it. I smear the focus of the bite with various useful ointments, I have them. And what is significant, the gap in the window was narrow - I found it, I got through! laughing ))))
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 9 June 2021 15: 18
              +4
              The hand is swollen, even the fingers, the wrist hurts wildly, as it happens when you stretch it.

              You can even give such a description in the style of a classic! good Nothing, a mosquito is not a bee. Although everyone has their own "allergies" ... Peace and good mood will help here! love
              1. depressant
                depressant 9 June 2021 17: 20
                +3
                Nikolay, thank you for your kind words of support. love )))
                It really hurt so much that I could even cry. Now it is slowly passing.
            2. kalibr
              9 June 2021 15: 46
              +3
              I killed a mosquito, tara rira-tarara
              But the crappy gnats managed to bite me
              and now I'm sick!
            3. Richard
              Richard 9 June 2021 15: 48
              +4
              The mosquito did not know
              Whom he bit.
              Whenever I knew
              I did not bite,
              I would not sneak out the window,
              Like a thief.
              And maybe
              Would live
              Still.
              I have a mosquito
              Imagine
              Sorry. -
              But I warned:
              Not sorry! (from)
            4. Korsar4
              Korsar4 9 June 2021 19: 58
              +2
              We are discussing here: who is the fierce beast.
              And here - there is no need to go far.
              Itself (or rather itself) will crawl through and arrive.
              1. depressant
                depressant 9 June 2021 20: 04
                +2
                Sergey, you're right)))
                But, surprisingly, for me the mosquito is always masculine, and another option is not even considered - such is the power of human stereotypes wassat )))
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 9 June 2021 20: 11
                  +2
                  It all starts with Guidon.
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 9 June 2021 20: 17
                    +2
                    What about Guidon? I forgot.
                  2. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 9 June 2021 20: 32
                    +1
                    "Be, prince, you are a mosquito" (c).
                  3. depressant
                    depressant 9 June 2021 20: 56
                    +2
                    Ah, this! ... It is quite possible to form a stereotype. I read it in early childhood, when ideas about the world are being formed. But stereotypes arise throughout life. For example, I had the following stereotype: a generation is a collection of people born at about the same year, albeit in different months. And here I have to note the usefulness of the discussions on VO. On the next topic of Skomorokhov, someone mentioned KOB. Since I had already met the abbreviation somewhere, I decided to finally find out what it is. Very quickly, the cunning Jesuitism of this theory - the Concept of Public Safety - came to light. But the video about the law of time interested me and destroyed the idea of ​​the social generation. It turned out that, almost from the Neanderthals, the generation is counted from the moment when a person creates a family and becomes responsible for it. 25 years of his subsequent life - this is the socially active generation. Next - just taking care of yourself. Such an idea of ​​the social generation is applicable even to the ancient Egyptian, even to the modern person.
                  4. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 9 June 2021 21: 11
                    +1
                    No, it does not come out at all. Of these 25 years, how many do you allocate for the appearance of children?
                  5. depressant
                    depressant 9 June 2021 21: 29
                    +1
                    I'm not taking away, nature. Let's take a Neandetal named Aueykh. At 13 he got married, which means he is responsible for the family. Let's add 25 years of active social life - the length of his generation, which means at 38 - for Aueych - it's like old age, if we call things by their proper names. And how many children will turn out. And as soon as he is 38, the time comes for a new social generation, which is not formed by everyone in a row, but only by those who got married this year and took responsibility for the family. A new generation begins. Well, maybe he got married a year earlier or a year later. These still unsettled "married women" (those who were born earlier, when Aueykh was getting old, are at the very least already settled) are the new socially active generation, the family needs to be fed - the generation following the social generation of Aueykh.
                  6. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 9 June 2021 21: 41
                    +1
                    With Neanderthals, it's clear.

                    Goethe may have lived for himself. But even in adulthood, it is quite productive.
                  7. depressant
                    depressant 9 June 2021 22: 11
                    +2
                    Let's not focus on geniuses. We're talking about the average person. What is the role of geniuses I will tell you now.
                    There is such a thing as the frequency of social time. It has nothing to do with generations. This concept is characterized by a period during which nothing changes! Here the Egyptians built their pyramids with the help of certain engineering practices and preserved their cultural traditions. The collection of information about construction technologies and culture is external information for an ordinary Egyptian. It has been like this every thousand years. And then - once! - and something has changed in technology and cultural traditions. Another thousand years passed, and again something changed, and so on. We see that the period of changing external information is constant and equal to 1000 years. How many social generations have passed each time?
                    1000: 25 = 40.
                    Forty generations have lived in the same conditions!
                    The reciprocal of the period is the frequency. In this example, it is 1/1000. The frequency is small and it is called the frequency of updating external information, or the frequency of social time. The lower the refresh rate, that is, social time, the more conservative life is.
                    The ratio of the frequency of information update (social time) to the length of the social generation is the law of social time.
                    Since the social generation for 3000 years has changed 120 times and external information only three times, then humanity was sour in ancient times, not moving forward.
                    And then the loan interest appeared wassat
                  8. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 9 June 2021 22: 17
                    +1
                    I’ll think about those forty-forties.
                    Probably, I want to look into different generations.

                    Here's my daughter for the summer, "A word about the shelf ..." was asked.

                    I read a little aloud - how I plunged into clean water.
                  9. depressant
                    depressant 9 June 2021 22: 59
                    +2
                    You have already touched upon a time when the frequency of information updates has increased dramatically!
                    Moneylenders have appeared! Why do you live in a hut blown by the winds and sand? Take money, build a nice house, but give it back with interest! And the pharaohs fell. They were unable to provide the population with science, production, and therefore work, such that the population could earn and give a trial interest. The Romans could not do this, and they also fell. The kings came, and science slowly began to develop, the future capitalism gave weak shoots. The period for updating external information has been shortened. Instead of 1000 years, it began to last for 500 years, then 250 years, then 100 years, then 50 years. The frequency of social information began to increase uncontrollably. And finally, a terrible thing happened - the period of updating social information became 25 years! That is, it equaled the duration of the social generation. And there was a resonance. Early 20th century. Wars and revolutions followed. Why? Because the previous generation no longer mastered the new technology and, being still full of strength, had to give up jobs to the new generation.
                    Indeed, even if we assume that then, on average, they married at 20 years old plus 25 years of active social life (work!), Then at 45 people were thrown into a landfill, since it was believed that he would no longer master the new technique. But at 45 people are still healthy and can work, until the end of his generation he still has 5 years, but he is no longer needed!
                    What is happening now is scary. The renewal of technology occurs much more often than once every 25 years.

                    Why did I tell all this, simplifying the topic as much as possible?))))
                    And about stereotypes. I was convinced, and for a long time I was convinced of this by such figures as Chizhevsky, that the Revolution of 17 and the First World War happened because these were years of unprecedented activity of the Sun. By the way, now it is also too active.
                    I tortured you, Sergey))))
                    I won't do it anymore. After all, as an example of stereotypes, you can choose something simpler. wassat ))))
                  10. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 9 June 2021 23: 09
                    +1
                    There is nothing. Moreover, the "Earth echo of Solar Storms" came across to me.
                    And in general, the cyclicality is interesting.
                    Only evidence is important.

                    You have a system.
                  11. depressant
                    depressant 9 June 2021 23: 25
                    +2
                    Yes, trying to understand, moreover, often unconsciously, what, how and why, I involuntarily compare scraps of random information and have to fill in the blanks with my conjectures)))
                    For example, it seems to me that we are successfully moving towards Ancient Egypt. Not so much because humanity is driven into slavery, but because of the fact that great science turns into secret knowledge and becomes, as in those days, the property of the priests. Too complicated. For example, in the same mathematics there are sections that are understood by at most 200 people out of 7 billion living.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 9 June 2021 09: 38
    +6
    Let it be, knight, everywhere and everywhere
    A dagger with you until the end of days
    Behind the belt or bosom,
    That is, perhaps, rather.
    While he is with you, that talisman,
    You will go everywhere and everywhere,
    And he will cut all the secret networks,
    Which you will fall into
    .


    A wonderful song from the movie "The Last Relic"! hi

    This film, I think, immediately comes to mind for those born in the 1950-70s when it comes to chivalry, the Middle Ages and weapons of that time ...
    1. depressant
      depressant 9 June 2021 10: 14
      +5
      Good morning, Andrey!)))
      The main role in the film "The Last Relic" was played by Alexander Goloborodko. In addition to the fact that he was an excellent actor, he was also enthusiastically engaged in fencing and sambo, which could not but affect the quality of the battle scenes. Therefore, in all subsequent times, fencing professionals put him in first place among all the actors involved in such scenes - in terms of performance.
      1. Richard
        Richard 9 June 2021 10: 32
        +4
        Lyudmila Yakovlevna hi
        To you, as a true connoisseur of knife fighting, a picture from the medieval "Textbook of fencing"
        Fig.1 parare il pugnale con la presa della spalla
        1. depressant
          depressant 9 June 2021 12: 53
          +4
          Dmitry, thanks! )))
          It means that textbooks on street fighting existed in those days. Indeed, how could it be otherwise? After all, everyone had blades. Some had dear ones, while some had a simple butcher's knife, and one had to be able to defend against a sudden attack, which was hardly a rarity.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 9 June 2021 13: 13
            +5
            It means that textbooks on street fighting existed in those days.
            Yes, actually, here:

            Hans Talhoffer (1420-1470)
            Author of six fechtbukhs. A drawing from one book, shown at the beginning of the article.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 9 June 2021 13: 47
              +3
              And again the drawing is very ... ambiguous. The citizen is holding the sword in a strange way. wink Hello Anton! hi
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 9 June 2021 14: 06
                +4
                Yes, he holds it normally. This is a "lorry", judging by the handle. They were not always worn in a scabbard, but in this way
                Sergei! hi
            2. depressant
              depressant 9 June 2021 13: 51
              +2
              That is, a whole layer of useful literature passed us by. Or rather, past me. No, I would not study, but knowing that there is such - is it superfluous?
              Thank you Anton! ))))
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 9 June 2021 14: 30
                +2

                Published in London 2000. You can ask Alex "Boltorez" to look.
      2. kalibr
        9 June 2021 12: 18
        +4
        And most importantly, there were elements of eroticism. For Soviet adolescents, that's it!
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 9 June 2021 13: 56
      +3
      Good afternoon.
      I want to thank Konstantin "Sea Cat" for recommending this film. I watched with interest
    3. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 9 June 2021 14: 25
      +4
      Colleague Olgovich, but I immediately remember: "Quentin Dorward". The girls recalled: "Knight's Castle".
      I saw the "Castle" more than once, but today I forgot
  • BAI
    BAI 9 June 2021 11: 59
    +5
    as "misericordia" - "God's mercy", which just defeated something and finished off.

    As the analysis of medieval burials showed, the tactics of the battle were as follows: a blow to the legs, the wounded one falls, he is finished off with a blow to the head. The blow is the strongest, not with a dagger - the floor of the skull is blown away.
    1. kalibr
      9 June 2021 12: 16
      +4
      Yes, it was not for nothing that the Vikings had a popular name for the sword Nogokus!
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 9 June 2021 13: 25
      +4

      From the same Talhoffer.
      1. BAI
        BAI 9 June 2021 13: 37
        +4
        This is a fight in the ring, not a real battle dump:

        In a real battle, while someone is sitting on the defeated person and trying to pierce him with a dagger, his colleagues will take off his head ten times, everything had to be done quickly.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 9 June 2021 13: 41
          +4
          Well, and in the picture you have given, it is by no means the XNUMXth century.
          1. BAI
            BAI 9 June 2021 14: 48
            +2
            Okay. Battle of Grunwald. 1410 year. 15th century. What's the difference?

            So it was possible to finish off the wounded only after the battle, when no one interfered. And there was no strength left for strong blows.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 9 June 2021 14: 59
              +4
              Actually, I don't really argue.
              And the painting by Matejko?
              1. BAI
                BAI 9 June 2021 15: 30
                +3
                Not. Stanislav Ganutin. But Matejko has the same dump. The author here had an article on Matejko's painting.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 9 June 2021 16: 13
                  +2
                  Yes I remember. Thanks for the hint, I'll have to look at the artist's work.
    3. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 9 June 2021 14: 31
      +2
      "God's mercy" here is black humor: the defeated knight can only hope that the enemy wants to get a ransom and does not kill?
      1. cat Rusich
        cat Rusich 9 June 2021 20: 24
        +2
        Quote: Astra wild2
        "God's mercy" here is black humor: the defeated knight can only hope that the enemy wants to get a ransom and does not kill?
        In the Middle Ages, medicine was at this level ...
        "God's grace" was indeed by grace in relation to the wounded on the battlefield.
  • AK1972
    AK1972 9 June 2021 12: 27
    +3
    "Misericordia" - "God's grace"
    ]
    I did not see any mention of God in the word misericordia. Vika translates this word simply - mercy.
    1. kalibr
      9 June 2021 12: 37
      +5
      Everything is correct. But that was also called him ...
      1. depressant
        depressant 9 June 2021 13: 43
        +4
        Actually, as far as I remember, "miserere" - "Lord, have mercy!"
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 9 June 2021 13: 51
    +5
    "stiletto with scabbard", and the hilt from a two-handed sword. Probably, the master messed with the sword and turned it into a dagger?
    1. kalibr
      9 June 2021 13: 57
      +2
      Everything can be!
  • Undecim
    Undecim 9 June 2021 15: 38
    +3
    Often in literature we find such a name for a dagger as "misericordia" - "God's mercy", with which they were just the defeated ones. But this is not a type of weapon. A generalized name for almost all daggers of that time.

    That is, for at least two hundred years, all daggers were called misericordia? This is clearly a discovery in weaponry. I would like to see the source of such a statement.
    1. kalibr
      9 June 2021 15: 59
      +2
      It is enough to read the book of Vendalen Beheim 1995, the chapter "dagger" pp. 218-226, to draw such a conclusion. On page 218, rondel is called the dagger of mercy, but this name itself is not in the text. And then it is written that this purpose gave rise to the name for the weapon. And then many daggers are shown as examples of such weapons, but there are no names for Quilon, Rondel, Baselard. The names "Frankish dagger", one-edged dagger, long dagger, eastern straight dagger, cavalry dagger ... a description that naturally unites them. That's all. In my opinion, this is enough for such a conclusion.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 9 June 2021 16: 55
        +1
        This is enough to make an entry, which according to one of the historians of weapons, etc. But the opinion of one, even such an authoritative one, is not yet a basis for generalization.
        1. kalibr
          10 June 2021 07: 18
          +1
          Nevertheless, this generalization can be expressed, has every right to exist, may not be considered the ultimate truth, and can be discussed ...
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 10 June 2021 08: 17
            +1
            Without any doubt.
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 9 June 2021 16: 58
        +2
        In my opinion, this is enough for such a conclusion.
        And in my opinion, Vyacheslav Olegovich, you are somewhat "distorting", citing Beheim's book, as "the ultimate truth." For a few hours ago, you yourself rebuffed Dmitry's commentary, who cited, as an argument, the 1962 edition that there are more recent studies.
        1. kalibr
          10 June 2021 07: 16
          +1
          I am not writing about the opinions of others, and not about the ultimate truth, but my opinion, which appeared when studying this source. Your opinion. Richard cited the opinions of others ...
  • Andrey Krasnoyarsky
    Andrey Krasnoyarsky 9 June 2021 16: 26
    +2
    In fact, misericordia is translated not as "God's mercy", but as "mercy." Initially designed to finish off the wounded, so as not to suffer.
    1. depressant
      depressant 9 June 2021 17: 06
      +2
      You know, colleague, it can be interpreted in different ways. This is what "Lord have mercy on me" actually looks like:

      MISERERE MEI, DEUS!

      But in common parlance, the shortened always takes root. When Mozart's "Miserere" is mentioned, everyone understands what it is about. When they say "misericordia", they also understand that it is a question of mercy by the possession of the Lord. There are many such abbreviations in life, which nevertheless convey the main meaning of the phenomenon or object they call.
  • depressant
    depressant 9 June 2021 16: 49
    +2
    So, about the Cinquedea (Cinquedea), and in common parlance, even the Cinque.

    I began to figure out why the blade disappeared. Indeed, it arose in 1450 and disappeared in 1550. It existed for only a hundred years! The appearance is allegedly associated with the fashion for everything antique - the Early Renaissance era was approaching, and the Cinquedea is similar to some Roman and Greek blades. At first it was like an insanity, everyone went from the Cinquedee - nobles, townspeople of all classes, urban lower classes.

    Why refused?

    It is convenient for the townspeople that they can hide under their clothes unnoticed, but the cinquedea cannot be hidden, the knife is large and massive.
    The nobles also refused - the rapier in battle is much more effective and allows you to realize more opportunities for combat with a blade. The blade lasted the longest in Venice. It is believed that due to the fact that the gondolas are narrow, it is uncomfortable with a sword, and it was often necessary to ride.
    In addition, it is good to prick with the Cinquedea, leaving very wide, poorly closing wounds, but fighting off other swords is inconvenient, since the blade is wide, but short, there is practically no guard, you can easily get it on your fingers. Thus, over a hundred years, they figured out that the Cinquedea was primarily a weapon of attack, not defense, that is, the weapon of assassins, but there were still not so many of them.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 9 June 2021 18: 24
    +1
    Thalhoffer's "book of fection" ,. Comrades, it seems to me to one: with the second on the right hand closes his "machine"? Take a closer look
  • Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 9 June 2021 20: 41
    +1
    Do you want to neigh? There's a hospital on Ridge Street in Chicago. Name? Yep Misecordia. Hospital for the mentally and genetically handicapped. I was crying. It would be necessary to write the motto above the gate "Dasein ohne Leben". By the way, I watched a film under this title, and I have nothing to argue with what is said in the film.