Military Review

Arkaim and "Country of Cities"

300

During aerial photography, which was carried out in 1956, already far from us, clear circles of clearly not natural origin were discovered in the Chelyabinsk region. They were located in the steppe on the territory of the Bredinsky region - at the confluence of the Utyaganka and Karaganka rivers.

Arkaim and "Country of Cities"
Arkaim, aerial photography

Immediately, thoughts arose that the remains of some ancient structure might have been found. But the time was difficult, the country was only recovering from the post-war devastation, and no one expected any special sensations from the research. Therefore, this find did not arouse much interest then. The circles were mapped and were not remembered until the summer of 1987, when an archaeological expedition headed by S. G. Botalov and V. S. Mosin was sent to the Ural steppe.

Two Chelyabinsk schoolchildren, A. Voronkov and A. Yezril, were among the adult archaeologists at that time. It was they who, having climbed one of the hills, were the first to see with their own eyes the mysterious circles of Arkaim in the indicated square. Botalov and Mosin reported their discovery to the famous specialist G.B. Zdanovich, who then supervised archaeological work in the South Urals (this researcher died in November 2020).

In the course of further research, more than 20 ancient settlements, associated necropolises (the anthropological type of the buried turned out to be proto-European) and hundreds of small unfortified settlements were discovered. The time of their construction was dated to the XVIII-XVI centuries BC. e. Recall that it was to this time that the flowering of the Cretan-Mycenaean culture, as well as the construction of Stonehenge and the Egyptian pyramids of the Middle Kingdom, belong.

Mysterious civilization


This newly discovered civilization received the code name "Country of Cities". Its territory covers the south of the Chelyabinsk region, the southeast of Bashkortostan, the east of the Orenburg region and the north of Kazakhstan. It stretches along the eastern slopes of the Ural Mountains for 400 km from north to south and 200 km from west to east. The first opened and largest city, apparently, was the capital of this state. This city received its beautiful and unusual-sounding name Arkaim (from the Turkic - arch, ridge) from a hill and a natural boundary located not far from the excavation site. It is believed that it was located on the site of an extinct volcano.


Arkaim, top view

It turned out that the settlement is one-layer, that is, neither earlier nor in later times there were no settlements on this place.

At the end of the 80s, most of the territory of the "Country of cities" almost ended up in the flooding zone of the Bolshe-Karagan reservoir, which was being built nearby, but the local branch of the Academy of Sciences managed to defend it. At that time the director of the Hermitage B. Piotrovsky joined the "struggle for Arkaim".

Reports about Arkaim aroused great interest among foreign archaeologists as well: groups of researchers from the USA, the Netherlands, Germany, and Ukraine worked on the territory of the "Country of cities". The main work on the study of the "Country of cities" took place in 1991-1995. In 1992, Arkaim was declared a protected area and included in the Ilmensky reserve. The historical and cultural center "Arkaim" was also created, which began to actively work to attract tourists. In 2005, Arkaim was visited by V. Putin and D. Medvedev, who were guided by G. Zdanovich himself.

At the end of the twentieth century, Arkaim became quite widely known in the circles of Russian mystics and esotericists. In the media and in pseudo-scientific circles, Arkaim began to be called "the most mysterious archaeological site in Russia", the Ural Troy and Russian Stonehenge. Some authors even considered it to be the spiritual center of ancient Siberia and the Urals described in legends. Others argued that Arkaim and "Country of Cities" are proof of the antiquity of the Russian stories, the countdown of which, it turns out, should be conducted from the XNUMXth century BC. e.

However, it has been proven that the settlements of the "Country of cities" have nothing to do with the peoples inhabiting modern Russia. According to the most popular and widely disseminated version, they were founded by proto-Aryan tribes who, on the way of their migration from north to south, lingered in the Ural steppes for two or three centuries. Here they built their cities, which they themselves mercilessly burned and destroyed.

However, a more reasonable hypothesis is that the settlements of the "Country of cities" arose in the course of Indo-European migration from the West, which was caused by the collapse of the Circumpontic metallurgical province.

Numerous finds of archaeologists at the site of Arkaim and other cities (and these are works of art, weapon, ritual objects) prove a higher level of development of their inhabitants in comparison with the surrounding tribes. After the departure of the Arkaim people, some technologies were probably mastered in the Urals only a few centuries later. The main occupation of the population of the "Country of cities" was still cattle breeding: Arkaim and other cities performed defensive and commercial functions, served as a place of public meetings.

Multi-storey Arkaim


The inhabitants of Arkaim knew how to make objects from bronze (numerous metallurgical furnaces were discovered), but they also achieved great success in agriculture, engineering and architecture. So, Arkaim, for example, was clearly built according to a pre-planned plan. In this city there were two rings of defensive structures inscribed one into the other and two circles adjacent to the walls of dwellings, with a central square and a circular street. The total area of ​​the settlement was 20 thousand square meters. m, the diameter of the inner citadel is 85 m, the diameter of the outer (wooden) walls is 143-145 m, the thickness of the walls at the base is 3-5 m, and the height of the embankment in place of the walls was 3-3,5 m earlier and even now reaches 1 meter. Ground bricks were used as building material for the houses.


Proposed layout of the city of Arkaim

It is interesting that the houses were multi-storey, with 10-30 "apartments" in each (the wall of one house was the wall of another), and all the underground structures of the city were connected with each other. There were 67 houses in total (40 in the outer circle and 27 in the inner circle). The city street had wooden flooring and storm sewers. It is said that the ring structure of the city is oriented by the stars and made it possible to track 18 astronomical events, including the rising and setting of the Sun on the days of the equinox, the rising and setting of the high and low moon. However, it must be borne in mind that the picture of the starry sky has changed quite a lot over 4000 years.

There are supporters of the version that Arkaim is a model of the Universe. Others consider it to be the projection of the sky map onto the earth. Serious researchers agree only that the fortress is approximately oriented to the cardinal points.

Arkaim had 4 entrances, oriented to the cardinal points, some of them were false. The area inscribed in the circle of the walls was square.

Thus, schematically, the city represented the ancient figure of the mandala: the square, apparently, symbolized the earth, the circle - the sky or the universe. Starting from the almost ideal circular structure of Arkaim, some researchers identify it with the astrologically verified city described in the ancient Indian treatise Arthashastra. But in this matter, of course, you should be very careful. In addition, it cannot be ruled out that other cities of the Aryans (if they were precisely the Aryans) were built on a similar principle. In addition, many scholars consider the description of the city in Arthashastra to be conditional and symbolic.

Archaeological finds allow us to conclude that the inhabitants of the "Country of cities" loved cherry-colored clothes, were fire worshipers, they did not know the script.

Why did the residents of Arkaim and other cities leave their homes?

No traces of the invasion of neighboring tribes into their territory were found, and the level of development of the newcomers was clearly higher than the owners. Some scientists suggest that they had to leave because of changes in climatic conditions. The advance of the glacier forced the Arkaim people to migrate to the south.

However, some researchers argue that a kind of ecological catastrophe took place in the "Country of Cities". Simply put, the aliens so polluted and littered their cities and the surrounding area that it was easier for them to burn everything and leave.

One way or another, some researchers believe that the find of Arkaim can confirm the legends about the settlement of the Aryan tribes, which say that they once came to the territory of Persia and India from the north. Others go even further, talking about aliens from the legendary sunken mainland, which in the Avesta (the holy book of Zoroastrianism) is known as Khairat. According to the Avestan tradition, the prophet Zarathushtra was born somewhere in the Urals. Information from other ancient texts suggests that on their way the Aryans stopped on the Volga, the Urals and Western Siberia.

For tourists


Currently, there are a tourist center, a hotel and several museums near Arkaim. The settlement is open for tourists from May 1 to September 30.

It is very difficult to get there on your own, since Arkaim is far from big cities: it takes 2 hours to drive from Magnitogorsk, 6 hours from Chelyabinsk, and even more from Yekaterinburg. We have to make transfers and walk the last few kilometers.

On the spot, you can book an excursion or take part in some master class (for example, on making ritual dolls). Or even explore the surroundings on a hang glider. However, the tourist offices of the surrounding large cities are now organizing weekend bus trips.

The historical and cultural center "Arkaim" includes not only the settlement, but also the surrounding territory, including the surrounding hills, each of which was given a "suitable" name. For example, Cherkassinskaya Sopka is now called the "Mountain of Reason". The former Steep Mountain has become the "Mountain of Happiness" (as well as "health"). "Mountain of Love", it is - "Mountain of the Heart", was formerly known as Grachinaya Sopka. Now here they tie ribbons to stones and bush branches and bury notes with wishes for “great and pure love” (and “who doesn't want it?”). There is the "Mountain of Repentance", it is also - Arkaim (Bald) and "Mountain of Seven Seals" (Curly), the mountain of "Revelation". Mount Shamanka is promoted as a "place of fulfillment of desires and purification." A stone labyrinth "Spiral of life" was built on this mountain in the 90s.


Smaller spirals are found on the tops of other mountains. And tourists independently lay out small pyramids, pentagrams, squares and spirals from stones.

Shamanka, "Mountain of Repentance" and "Mountain of Love" are located closest to the tourist camp. The latter is the highest (about 350 meters). So these are, rather, still hills.

There is a museum "Dwellings of the Stone Age", a museum of nature and man of the southern Urals, an ethnographic museum "House and estate of the Orenburg Cossack", a windmill, an alley of menhirs, several barrows.


House and estate of the Orenburg Cossack, mill. Brought from the village of Varlamova, built in the late XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries.


Arkaim, Museum of Stone Age Dwellings


Menhirs Alley, Arkaim

There is a fairly large exposition of Arkaim finds in the Chelyabinsk Museum of Local Lore. There you can also see anthropological reconstructions of a 23-year-old man and a 25-year-old woman, whose burial was found in the Bolshekaragan mound "Country of cities".

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  1. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 1 June 2021 05: 00
    +5
    Interesting, but not clear: where, where, why?
    1. Civil
      Civil 1 June 2021 08: 04
      +10
      And every year everything there is trampled by mentally unbalanced people who did not study physics at school and their world is surrounded by miracles, esotericism and magic. lol the city itself, they prudently buried it with earth so that the especially violent ones would not take everything away to their burrows.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 1 June 2021 08: 35
        -7
        Quote: Civil
        the city itself, they prudently buried it with earth so that the especially violent ones would not take everything away to their burrows.

        Do you think that it is precisely because of this, and not because the people will start scratching their turnips?
        Why do you think archaeological excavations are being conducted all over the world and all countries are proud of their "ancient" origin (except ours)?
        1. Civil
          Civil 1 June 2021 08: 40
          -3
          Quote: Boris55
          Why do you think archaeological excavations are being conducted all over the world and all countries are proud of their "ancient" origin (except ours)?

          In our country, science is not in the first place, and archeology in general is the lot of enthusiasts - ascetics.
          Not all countries are proud of their ancient origins. For example, Zimbabwe is proud of its young origins.
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 1 June 2021 13: 34
          +14
          Quote: Boris55
          Why do you think archaeological excavations are being conducted all over the world and all countries are proud of their "ancient" origin (except ours)?

          To begin with, archaeological excavations are being conducted in our country with such activity as nowhere else, perhaps. The Soviet and now Russian archaeological school is one of the best in the world.
          Further. I don’t know about “all” and about “ancient”, but I personally am proud of the origin and history of my country even without making them “old”. Which is what I wish for you. But I will say this - I'd rather not be proud of anything at all than be proud of the painful inventions of such visionaries as, for example, Samsonov and his muse Petukhov.
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 3 June 2021 07: 44
            -2
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            The Soviet and now Russian archaeological school is one of the best in the world.

            Why is the general public not aware of this?

            Quote: Trilobite Master
            I am personally proud of the origin and history of my country even without making them old.

            A man without roots, like a rolling stone, without a family, without a tribe. Where the wind blows, it carries it there.

            ps
            As for the "lengthen", I have already written many times. We are not the first civilization on Earth, and I hope we will not be the last. So that our civilization does not die like the previous ones (six), it is necessary to know the reasons why they died.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 3 June 2021 12: 01
              +2
              Quote: Boris55
              Why is the general public not aware of this?

              Because she's not interested in it.
              And who is interested, they know. For example, I follow the news from Gnezdovo, from Novgorod, sometimes I look at all what's going on, what's new. For example, the Usvyaty recently decided to dig - a whole series of previously unknown fortifications were found there. Approximate dates - IX - X centuries.
              I would be just happy if instead of RenTV there was a channel "Russian archeology and source studies", for example. Or on ORT on Saturdays, for example, at seven o'clock in the evening, the weekly "Archeological Review" was shown for an hour and a half. But no. You have to look for sources yourself.
              Quote: Boris55
              We are not the first civilization on Earth

              Who taught you this? Prokopenko? Six civilizations, three (or four) moons, Nibiru ... Boring.
              Quote: Boris55
              A man without roots, like a rolling stone, without a family, without a tribe

              Why don't you like our real roots? More than a thousand-year statehood, the richest and most varied history ... What's wrong? Do you want to seat your ancestors on vimans?
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 4 June 2021 07: 49
                -5
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Because she's not interested in it.

                Not because of this, but because everything is about it means of forming consciousness for some reason, the so-called media are silent, but all these facts are widely known, but only in narrow circles ...

                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Approximate dates - IX - X centuries.

                All archaeological finds that do not fit into the biblical interpretation of the World, if not destroyed, then are hushed up.

                Six civilizations

                According to archaeological finds, about which they are silent.
                There was a flood and it washed away the previous civilization. The remains of it are the Incas, Asteks, the inhabitants of India. There are pyramids not only in Egypt, but also in China and in the Atlantic Ocean and here in Siberia.

                Quote: Trilobite Master
                More than a thousand-year statehood, the richest and most varied history ... What's wrong?

                In your question, you are somewhat reminiscent of a kolyuizurengoy. You are not even interested in what would be an antediluvian civilization, you are not even interested in our non-Christian past. The biblical concept rules.

                ps
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Prokopenko?

                Prokopenko works to discredit the past i.e. to the biblical concept.
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 4 June 2021 14: 33
                  +4
                  Quote: Boris55
                  All archaeological finds that do not fit into the biblical interpretation of the World, if not destroyed, then are hushed up.

                  Nonsense. Nobody needs it - why? Any scientist wants to create a sensation and go down in the history of science. Nobody will hush up something. Find, determine what exactly you found, prove your case. Everything.
                  Quote: Boris55
                  According to archaeological finds, about which they are silent.

                  No one will be silent. This is their bread, their money, their fame and recognition. It's like finding a treasure and burying it back without telling or showing it to anyone.
                  Quote: Boris55
                  You are not even interested in what would be an antediluvian civilization, you are not even interested in our non-Christian past.

                  I am interested in historical science in general. Not the fantasies of the weak-minded, but real scientific data based on a comprehensive analysis of the available materials. In addition to history, there is also such a science as anthropology. She tells us unequivocally that there were no other people on the planet besides us. There is a completely open and scientifically grounded line, which represents all stages of the development of modern mankind over millions of years, starting with the first mammals. There is archeology, which presents the same line - without interruptions, lacunae and backtracking. Humanity in a global sense is developing progressively. The same archeology gives us information about ancient civilizations, of which there were much more than six, which ceased to exist long ago, but passed on their knowledge to subsequent ones - the continuity can be traced very clearly.
                  So no need to fantasize. You need to be interested in science, study what it provides and be proud of your past as it is.
                  1. Boris55
                    Boris55 5 June 2021 08: 49
                    -2
                    Quote: Trilobite Master
                    Nobody needs it - why?

                    In this case, you must believe in the Biblical theory of the origin of the World and that human life went from Adam and Eve. I have only one question, where did Eve get the little yellow, black, red kids, did the wind blow? laughing
                    1. Trilobite Master
                      Trilobite Master 5 June 2021 11: 04
                      +3
                      Biblical? Why do you think so? laughing Of course not.
                      In general, I am a stranger to religion - any, and I prefer not to believe, but to trust science. Such science as anthropology deals with the origin of man. Its foundations are evolution and natural selection. Everything is logical and internally consistent.
                      Creationism in any form is definitely not mine. laughing
                      I just do not understand - why did you suddenly have such an assumption?
                      1. Boris55
                        Boris55 5 June 2021 11: 52
                        -1
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        basics - evolution and natural selection

                        Are you a Darwinist? Tell me, has there been at least one case when a monkey became a man? laughing

                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        why did you suddenly have such an assumption?

                        The biblical concept is the principles of building the World (Old Testament - how to conquer the World, New Testament - how to keep it). On its basis, there are many religions (belief systems). The denial of religion is the same religion.
                      2. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 5 June 2021 14: 23
                        +3
                        Quote: Boris55
                        Tell me, has there been at least one case when a monkey became a man?

                        If you were even a little familiar with Darwin's theory, you would not have written such nonsense. Especially for you I will explain: during the life of the organism, mutations (changes) do not occur. Changes occur in the offspring. A monkey cannot become a man. But they certainly had common ancestors several tens of millions of years ago.
                        Quote: Boris55
                        The denial of religion is the same religion.

                        Nonsense. The maxim "I believe that God exists, but you believe that he does not exist" is for fools.
                        The concept of God - anyone - is structured in such a way that it is impossible to prove or disprove it. Consequently, God, purely theoretically, can exist in objective reality, and in absolutely any form. As well as aliens, for example.
                        I, like any person who thinks rationally, cannot say that there is no God or aliens. Maybe there is, but I do not see any of their manifestations in real life, therefore, they are not yet present. But I fully admit, for example, that at a certain moment they can appear - both God and aliens. Then we will study, systematize and discuss these phenomena. No longer on the basis of their own fantasies, but in detail, as objects of physical nature.
                        That's all.
                        And your reasoning about Christianity, covenants, etc. - just a primitive, simplified to the limit children's fairy tale, as they say, "based on" religious texts, nothing more. Everything is much more complicated, multifaceted and confusing.
              2. sleeve
                sleeve 5 June 2021 05: 03
                0
                And our statehood is dated earlier? Sources want!
              3. cat Rusich
                cat Rusich 8 June 2021 22: 36
                0
                Quote: Boris55
                There are pyramids not only in Egypt, but also in China and in the Atlantic Ocean and here in Siberia.
                .
                pyramid mmm
                And no one argues with this ...
                bully
      2. vka
        vka 3 June 2021 01: 00
        -1
        not everyone is so miserable, we have something to be proud of
    2. Doliva63
      Doliva63 1 June 2021 19: 37
      +5
      Quote: Civil
      must not

      The city is not buried, it is about a couple of kilometers from the tourist mecca, archaeologists have recently worked there, tourists were not taken there at all. The only city of the Country of cities that was found almost intact. But - empty. No skeletons, no utensils. In other cities of the Country, on the contrary - everything is there, but there is practically no city.
  2. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 2 June 2021 15: 55
    +4
    Quote: Uncle Lee
    Interesting, but not clear: where, where, why?

    Of course it is not clear! How would a reasonable man reason? He would look for the main occupation of the Arkaim people and their compatriots. They succeeded - apparently it was impossible not to constantly stumble over the metallurgical furnaces. Smelted copper and bronze. Okay.
    The next step. Homo sapiens would look in the area for deposits of metal alloys and assess their condition - an obvious reason for metallurgists to leave the area is the depletion of ore reserves. Alas, a human historian is not a reasonable person, this creature prefers not to use reason, therefore there is simply no data on ore deposits. Laugh? To pity the poor fellows? Oh-ho-ho ...
    Further. Metallurgy stimulates the mind. the one who comes to the stove foolishly, sooner or later burns everything for himself, do not indulge in the most. So the people of Arkaim could not leave "where they were looking". there was no point. They also had cattle breeding here, it would be very stupid to throw them into the bare steppe. So they had to first prospect for ore deposits (which in the Cis-Urals and the Urals would certainly be crowned with success) and move there. Where to? Where did these people go? It’s interesting! There is no data...
    The idea that the people of Arkaim left because they fucked up everything around them is worthy of being awarded the title of academician of historical "science"! The anecdote is first-class, while it is told with a serious air by "scientists"! Guys ... The ability to build cities is the ability to establish life in them with minimal tolerance. Here the "enlightened" Europeans drowned in their own shit, but did not run around Europe, loading cities on their backbone. Not required.
    Brilliant historians have found monstrous slag mountains around Arkaim that did not allow breathing? And where is even the smallest mention of this? Or why people there "poisoned everything around", with manure, or what? You read it and, as usual, frown sadly. An interesting topic, presented in the correct Russian language ... without the use of logic, reason, elementary everyday sense. "Waiter! Game!"
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 6 June 2021 02: 14
      0
      Smelted copper and bronze.

      It is doubtful about bronze. As far as I read, there is neither tin nor its substitutes. I had to use pure copper.
      P.S. Colleagues write below about arsenous bronze. Quite possible. I still read about pure copper. Both were possible.
      would look in the area for deposits of metal alloys and assess their condition - an obvious reason for metallurgists to leave the area, this is the depletion of ore reserves.

      Appreciated back in the XNUMXth century. There were still deposits to hell. All of Europe used South Ural copper imported from Russia. During the Crimean War, English brass sleeves were made of our own copper. Moreover, in the XNUMXth century, mining methods were fundamentally little different from those of Arkaim times. Now, after the predatory development, the deposits are depleted.
      They also had cattle breeding here, it would be very stupid to throw them into the bare steppe.

      Cattle breeding strife. During the time of Arkaim, the climate was humid, huge herds grazed in the vicinity and there was enough food. Then the climate became drier - there was less food - they had to switch to nomadic cattle breeding in the steppe, and the nomads of the city did not need anything.
      Where did these people go? It’s interesting! There is no data...

      The Indo-European (Indo-Aryan and Iranian-Aryan) tribes came to Iran and India from the North, and they are suitable in time, and there seems to be some kind of cultural continuity with the South Ural cultures.
      Ability to build cities

      Arkaim is still a settlement of pastoralists. And the settlement of pastoralists is not a city. Metallurgy was well developed there, but it was metallurgy for itself, each family processed copper itself (at least that's what they say). There were no craftsmen like in a real city.
      monstrous mountains of slag. And where is even the smallest mention of this?

      In any archaeological report, there are mountains of slag. Nearby, in the ancient metallurgical center of Karagaly. It was exploited for about 2 thousand years, if memory does not fail. "Extracted up to 10 million tons of copper ore, from which about 200-250 thousand tons of copper are smelted" (VIKI). The Russian miners saw them (mountains of slags) in the XNUMXth century, and decided that the Bashkirs had been melting copper for many years .. As for "not letting you breathe", this is an inflection point.
      Arkaim residents left

      If I understood correctly on the example of Kargaly, other tribes helped them to leave. The aliens and everyone who came after them did not pay attention to the copper deposits for several thousand years. A m. and converted, but could not get metal. There, copper ore is special, to obtain copper, you need to use secret methods, the Russian ore specialists, for example, could not immediately get copper. And the invited Saxon master did not solve the secrets of the ancient metallurgists. And the Hanoverian master has figured it out.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 7 June 2021 09: 23
        0
        Thank you. Seriously. Unlike the author of the article, who poured empty words on the screen, you answer informatively. Apparently, the author cannot distinguish reasonable hypotheses from insane, and his concoction ...
        However, there is something to ask you too) You see, there are no “settlements of pastoralists”. As there is no such stupid subject in the world as "settlement". The term was apparently introduced by European historians in order not to admit that when hairy primates ran across Europe, hiding in trees, cities were built on the territory of the Russian Plain with might and main.
        There are no settlements of pastoralists, there are just cities. The herder cannot sit in the settlement. He must roam for grass and water. The climate that will allow the pastoralist to sit still is not "wetter", it is a uniform jungle). In general, cattle breeders need cities. Just cities where you can sell your products and buy what the cattle breeder himself cannot produce. Arkaim was such a city. Where artisans lived, to the best of their ability and strength, they produced copper tools for sale, made bows (wood for onions must be dried for at least five years. Nomadic nomads cannot, in principle, provide the necessary conditions for this, except that an Indian composite craft made of leather and sticks, junk) , and other products that cannot be dazzled in a yurt. Well, etc., that much needs to be said.
        Of course, they were "helped"! Wealthy artisans have always been a welcome prey for the tough and brainless conquerors who never looked beyond their quiver - there are arrows, okay. If you run out, I'll rob someone else. The question is that Arkaim and other similar settlements were arranged, in principle, differently from all other cities known to us. Why? People did not build non-functional structures until the 20th century, there was simply no excess capacity. When at a construction site you have to tear your own back all the way, you don't want to build nonsense) Arkaim should have become just that, extremely strange. But why?!
        Yes, cathedrals and palaces should not be cited as "useless structures" - they generated a huge cash flow. And the pyramids are not necessary - they were anything but religious buildings. Much more, especially in the structure of access roads, they resemble some kind of industrial structure for the production of something unique. Well, etc.
        1. Sergey Sfiedu
          Sergey Sfiedu 12 June 2021 06: 22
          0
          I don’t remember by Arkaim himself, whether I came across anything worthwhile, but by Kargaly (this is nearby) - it’s worth reading
          http://pro-speleo.ru/load/chernykh_en_kargaly_zabytyj_mir_nox_1997g/10-1-0-415
          https://libs.ru/book/series/48761.html
          Well, my comrades tell me about the Sintashna culture.
          https://arkaim-center.ru/sites/default/files/documents/2019-07/Генинг%20В.Ф.%20и%20др.%20Синташта.pdf
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 1 June 2021 05: 10
    +3
    I read thanks, I am also inclined to believe that these were migrants from the south, and climate change forced them to leave the place.
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 1 June 2021 19: 38
      0
      Quote: Pessimist22
      I read thanks, I am also inclined to believe that these were migrants from the south, and climate change forced them to leave the place.

      This is how canonical science believes that these are the cities of the Proto-Iranians.
  • Van 16
    Van 16 1 June 2021 05: 18
    +11
    The place is very interesting. There is a fly in the ointment, Valery mentions "Russian mystics and esotericists", I will add - there are really a lot of them, and sometimes these figures are limited only by the flight of their own imagination. But, again, the place is really interesting.
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 1 June 2021 05: 46
      +5
      Fools in Russia for 100 years smile
  • Konnick
    Konnick 1 June 2021 05: 38
    +9
    However, some researchers argue that a kind of ecological catastrophe took place in the "Country of Cities". Simply put, the aliens so polluted and littered their cities and the surrounding area that it was easier for them to burn everything and leave.

    As if the inhabitants of these cities were using plastic packaging. Yes, even 50 years ago there were no garbage dumps around the villages, everything went into business.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 1 June 2021 06: 12
      +4
      You can cut a forest, be left without water sources, deplete the soil, etc.
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 1 June 2021 06: 55
        +9
        You can reduce the forest, be left without water sources, deplete the soil, etc.

        I understand this, but in the article "polluted and littered"
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 1 June 2021 07: 05
          +1
          Yet pollution can be more than just plastic.
          1. Konnick
            Konnick 1 June 2021 07: 23
            +4
            Yet pollution can be more than just plastic.

            More specifically, I gave an example, villages with a long history and there were no garbage dumps.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 1 June 2021 07: 29
              +1
              Imagined a perennial mountain of shards.
              1. Konnick
                Konnick 1 June 2021 07: 31
                +3
                Imagined a perennial mountain of shards.


                And nothing more? Shards are not rubbish, but building material laughing
                It's just that I didn't hear any more stupid reason how to get out of there, some kind of gretonism with tumbergism, and you began to justify this heresy.
                1. Richard
                  Richard 1 June 2021 08: 18
                  +6
                  In Arkaim were found: Arrowheads, molds for casting metal products, anvils, foundations of furnaces for metal. Based on this, a hypothesis was made about migrations from the west, which were caused by the collapse of the circumpontic metallurgical province - this theory is supported by the bulk of researchers. I mean that the reason for leaving could well have been an elementary depletion of ore reserves. And the residents moved to a new explored place rich in ore.
                  1. Konnick
                    Konnick 1 June 2021 08: 25
                    +3
                    I mean that the reason for leaving could well have been an elementary depletion of ore reserves. And the residents moved to a new explored place rich in ore.

                    But garbage did not become the reason that justified and painted Korsar4.
                    But I would not say only ores, there could well be native placers of copper that are still found in the Southern Urals, which in themselves contributed to the emergence of metallurgy. Moreover, they got transport in the form of chariots, with the help of which, according to the Kurgan theory, the expansion to the west, southwest and south of the Proto-Indo-European language with native speakers of this language took place from these places.
                    1. Richard
                      Richard 1 June 2021 08: 37
                      +5
                      But I would not say only ores, there could well be native placers of copper that are still found in the South Urals,

                      Absolutely agree with you.
                      Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin. The Copper Age tells us that there were no special problems with copper placers. But tin ...
                      Getting tin is not easy. Its content in various ores ranges from 0,2 to 2% of the amount of ore ... (information from here
                      http://www.mining-enc.ru/o/olovyannye-rudy ). Но и руду ещё нужно добыть! Это сейчас можно взорвать, раздробить, пробурить Экскаватором вырыть и вагоном привезти! А тогда, доступны были только россыпи - речные наносы, из которых надо было выделить эти 0,2-2% олова.... корзинками перетаскать к печи. Наука говорит, что раньше эти наносы были гораздо и гораздо богаче - благодаря естественному обогащению связанному с эрозией почв.Но они были не бездонными и древним металлургам поневоле приходилось кочевать в поисках новых оловянных речных наносов. Я не зря выше привел карту ореола укрепленных поселений эпохи бронзы на Урале. Все они в районах местных рек
                      1. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 10: 31
                        +7
                        Quote: Richard
                        Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin. The Copper Age tells us that there were no special problems with copper placers. But tin ...

                        Good afternoon Dmitry, the earliest bronze - arsenic, also made antimony, lead. Tin bronze is the highest quality of them, but also more recent.
                        I wonder what kind of bronze they made there? hi
                      2. Richard
                        Richard 1 June 2021 10: 51
                        +5
                        Good day. The overwhelming part of the metal of Sintashta and Arkaim is arsenic bronze. At first it was believed that it was a natural alloy obtained as a result of smelting copper ore from the Tash-Kazgan deposit (Bashkiria), containing impurities of arsenic. However, slag studies showed that the Arkaim metallurgists did not use the Tashkazgan ore. Several different local mines were exploited at once, and bronze was obtained thanks to special additions to the copper ore of minerals containing arsenic.
                        “… Almost all [ore] samples, with the exception of Tash-Kazgan samples and Arkaim limonite samples, contain arsenic in the range of 0-0,03%, which, when melted, cannot produce a metal in which arsenic concentrations exceed 0,3%. However, metal analyzes look different. At the settlement of Sintashta, arsenic bronze items account for 53,9%, and at the burial ground they reach 67,3%. A similar picture was revealed by other studies, and the overwhelming part of the metal not attributed to the group of arsenic bronzes still contains increased concentrations of arsenic ... ... additives - AC]. The fact that these bronzes were produced locally is indicated by the presence of arsenic in the slag. The same circumstance is evidence that alloying was carried out at the stage of ore smelting ”(S. Grigoriev).

                        Where exactly the metallurgists of Sintashta and Arkaim took the arsenic ore, which was added during smelting, is still not clear. Grigoriev believes that the Arkimians were looking for open deposits of arsenopyrite (Arsenopyrite (from Latin arsenicum - arsenic) is a mineral from the class of sulfides with the composition FeAsS. Synonyms: arsenic pyrite, arsenic-sulphide iron, mispickel, thalheimite.)
                        link:https://infopedia.su/2xb0a2.html
                      3. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 10: 53
                        +8
                        Quote: Richard
                        The overwhelming part of the metal of Sintashta and Arkaim is arsenic bronze.

                        I just thought that most likely arsenic, a bit early in time for tin. hi
                      4. Richard
                        Richard 1 June 2021 11: 00
                        +10
                        Yes, you were right.
                        By the way, S. Grigoriev points out that the accumulation of arsenic fractions of arsenopyrite in the slags of the metallurgical furnaces of the Arkaims eventually became critical for life and health and from time to time required the transfer of production to another place. Here is one more hypothesis of leaving Sintashta and Arkaim by the inhabitants !!!
                        And, IMHO, the most believable
                      5. Richard
                        Richard 1 June 2021 11: 11
                        +2
                        Evolution of metallurgical furnaces of Sintashta and Arkaim (according to S. Grigoriev)
                        Grigoriev puts forward a version of the evolution of metallurgical furnaces of Arkaim and Sintashta, built on the principle of "from simple to complex", assuming a gradual transition from single-chamber furnaces to two-chamber, the appearance and complication of chimneys, the addition of furnaces to wells and the appearance of bellows at a later stage, and so on. Although he himself makes a reservation that it is extremely difficult to trace this "evolution" on real archaeological material - the recorded facts of the construction of one furnace on the site of another are literally isolated.
                        To smelt metal from ore, the masters of Sintashta and Arkaim used special metallurgical furnaces, the design of which, on the one hand, was quite simple, and on the other, quite effective and even sometimes very perfect (within the framework of the technologies available at that time). These were domed ovens, which could be either with only one chamber or two-chamber. One part of them was located directly on the ground, the other was slightly buried (30-40 centimeters) into the ground. Most often, these were small, rounded furnaces with a diameter of just under one meter.
                        “A more complex modification of ground-type furnaces are furnaces attached to wells. Twenty-two of them were found: 10 - at the Arkaim settlement, 2 - at the Sintashta settlement and 10 - at the Ustye settlement [another well-studied settlement of the same type - AS]. The main feature of these furnaces boils down to the fact that they were built near wells and were connected to the latter by a small blocked channel with a width
                        about 15 centimeters "
                        So strange, at first glance, the construction of furnaces near wells is actually an excellent technological solution, which has been confirmed by modern experimental research. This solution made it possible to provide a very intense and efficient natural draft of air. Due to the temperature difference in the well and the furnace, which, according to physical laws, led to a pressure difference, the air from the well rushed into the channel leading to the furnace, then entered the combustion area in the furnace, passed in a circle and went out into the chimney.
                        However, if necessary, local metallurgists supplemented the natural draft of air with artificial blowing created with the help of furs. Archaeologists have found blowing nozzles in the remains of the walls of some furnaces, as well as ditch-shaped protrusions, which apparently served for the same nozzles through which air from the bellows was supplied to the furnace.
                        The chimneys were of a complex, but also very effective design. A groove extended from the furnace, covered at the top by an elongated cylindrical clay dome. Passing through it, hot gases cooled down, simultaneously heating the room, and only then rushed out through the vertical part of the chimney. This made it possible to maximize the use of the heat released during the combustion of fuel in the furnace.
                        (S. Grigoriev).

                      6. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 11: 30
                        +5
                        Quote: Richard
                        from and one more hypothesis of leaving Sintashta and Arkaim residents !!!
                        And, IMHO, the most believable

                        Yes, it is quite.
                        But the hypothesis that they flew away on their star chariots to the constellation Tau-Kita is much more romantic. wassat
                2. Undecim
                  Undecim 1 June 2021 17: 24
                  +3
                  Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin. The Copper Age tells us that there were no special problems with copper placers. But tin ...
                  They did not melt tin bronze in Arkaim. They melted arsenic bronze.
                3. Richard
                  Richard 1 June 2021 17: 58
                  +6
                  Thank you, Viktor Nikolaevich, if you carefully read our Mihaylov (Mihaylov) posts above, then you will find out that we already figured it out in the morning and now we are discussing another hypothesishi
                4. Undecim
                  Undecim 1 June 2021 18: 37
                  +6
                  This is some kind of glitch. I wrote a comment in the morning. And he only appeared when they had already figured out everything.
                5. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 1 June 2021 20: 59
                  +3
                  There really was a glitch in the morning. My site was loaded for 5-10 minutes.
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 1 June 2021 17: 34
          +6
          But garbage was not the reason that Korsar4 justified and painted.

          But he also spoke about this:
          A complaint
          Korsar4
          Korsar4 (Sergey)
          Today, 06: 12
          NEW

          +3
          You can reduce the forest, be left without water sources, deplete the soil, etc.
          1. Richard
            Richard 1 June 2021 18: 13
            +5
            Kostya hi
            Mihaylov (Mihaylov) and I ruled out the version about the departure of the residents of Arkaim due to the depletion of tin reserves, since they were producing arsenic bronze.
            We considered the version of Professor S. N. Grigoriev
            the accumulation of arsenic fractions of arsenopyrite in the slags of the metallurgical furnaces of the Arkaims eventually became critical for life and health and from time to time required the transfer of production to another place.

            Here is one more hypothesis of leaving Sintashta and Arkaim by the inhabitants !!!
            And, IMHO, the most believable
            So Korsar4 (Sergey) is not so far from the truth that garbage was the reason for leaving.
            With one small amendment - poisonous debris of arsenopyrite from slag.
            Although this is just another hypothesis
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 1 June 2021 18: 26
            +4
            Hello Dima. hi
            Yes, now all that remains is to build hypotheses, and, perhaps, no one will ever know the truth. request
          3. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 1 June 2021 21: 06
            +3
            Yes, it's simple! The spice ended and Muad'Dib took the party to another club.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 1 June 2021 14: 54
    +3
    It is clear that in our countryside, too, the compost heap solved problems with organic matter.

    But, if you stay in one place for a long time, dumps can form, Mom, don't worry.

    Possible reasons for the intolerance of being cited earlier.
    Maybe trash is a bad word.

    We went to the forest, fried kebabs, did not clean up after ourselves - this is later.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 1 June 2021 17: 43
    +4
    And nothing more? Shards are not rubbish ...


    And they are also different, could Vereshchagin imagine such a mountain, why not?

    And yes, the European cities of the early Middle Ages did not die out, and it is difficult to imagine anything dirtier than them.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 1 June 2021 21: 12
      +3
      it's hard to imagine anything dirtier than them.
      Another well-established "cliche" about the "dark Middle Ages".
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 1 June 2021 21: 17
        +3
        I have not, but I have read quite a lot about it from different authors.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 1 June 2021 21: 50
          +3
          And what? This is a ledge on the wall of the castle. Going vertically into the ditch, mostly flowing.
          And in general - a castle, this is a "village".
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 1 June 2021 21: 57
          +2
          I did not find it outside the village, but, I suppose, they were shitting without leaving a kilometer from the house. But out of town - please. smile



        3. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 1 June 2021 22: 08
          +2
          Uncle Kostya! Sorry, but if you don't understand the topic, you shouldn't "squeeze" pictures from dubious sources.
          The first selection, in general, from the newspapers of the first half of the leviceth century.
        4. Catfish
          Catfish 1 June 2021 22: 18
          +3
          I will not deny that it’s not special in toilets, but you didn’t convince me for the cleanliness of the streets of the Middle Ages. drinks
        5. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 1 June 2021 22: 24
          +2
          I don't want to convince anyone. Simply, I know the European Middle Ages a little more than the average user of this resource.
        6. Catfish
          Catfish 1 June 2021 22: 35
          +1
          the average user of this resource.

          Well, thanks for the precise definition of my place on this site. laughing
        7. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 1 June 2021 22: 39
          +3
          Excuse me please! recourse
          But ... I have never challenged your opinion in topics about "firearms"? ...
        8. Catfish
          Catfish 1 June 2021 22: 57
          +3
          And I don’t dispute yours, and why.
        9. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 1 June 2021 23: 00
          +3
          You don’t argue, but you don’t believe.
        10. Catfish
          Catfish 1 June 2021 23: 22
          +4
          So after all, everything depends on evidence, so I would take and write an extensive article about the plumber of that time, it's really interesting. It's still okay for us in the village, but if the sewerage system and water supply are blocked in the city, it is a disaster. And so everyone lives and is accustomed to the fact that "bread is grown in stores." smile
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 1 June 2021 21: 57
    +2
    And also "people in the Middle Ages washed themselves twice in their lives: at baptism and at funeral service"! You will be surprised, but in Paris, in the middle of the 13th century, there were two dozen public baths, not counting private ones.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 1 June 2021 13: 37
    +8
    Quote: Konnick
    As if the inhabitants of these cities were using plastic packaging.

    Residents of Arkaim were engaged in sedentary cattle breeding. Trampled everything around and left.
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 1 June 2021 05: 38
    +4
    Eh, a time machine could not learn the history of these settlements.
    It would be nice to study the DNA of the remains of residents from the graves ... perhaps this will indicate the direction of the search and where the settlers so suddenly left.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 1 June 2021 08: 52
      +4
      It would be nice to study the DNA of the remains of residents from the graves ... perhaps this will indicate the direction of the search and where the settlers so suddenly left

      Read about the kurgan theory, this is of course a hypothesis, but the latest research, including the latest on DNA, is increasingly confirming its correctness. Although it is about the origin of Indo-European languages, it is possible that Arkaim and other cities are cities of those peoples from which the modern languages ​​of the Indo-European group arose. Hydronyms, i.e. river names are the most ancient names of the area in the European part of Russia, it is difficult, and sometimes impossible to translate into more or less modern languages, but with the help of Sanskrit it is easy. By the way, a lot of names of rivers and lakes coincide with the names of rivers in India.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 1 June 2021 05: 48
    +7
    For some reason, the author did not cite the 1956 Kurgan theory of Maria Gimbutas about the origin of the Proto-Indo-European peoples and language. This hypothesis finds more and more supporters in the scientific community of historians and archaeologists.
    1. vargo
      vargo 1 June 2021 08: 35
      +3
      Interesting. Can you briefly talk about what there? Does this theory somehow cover Arkaim?
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 1 June 2021 15: 00
        +4
        At least the territory.
        In Yandex, you type the Kurgan theory and read it.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 1 June 2021 06: 08
    +6
    And tourists independently lay out small pyramids, pentagrams, squares and spirals from stones.
    ... Added works for the archaeologists of the future. smile
    1. Richard
      Richard 1 June 2021 08: 53
      +6

      Fig. layout of one of the sectors of Arkaim. modern reconstruction

      Fig. layout of Arkaim. modern reconstruction

      1. Richard
        Richard 1 June 2021 09: 22
        +5
        a photo Historical and archaeological reserve Ancient settlement Arkaim








        1. Richard
          Richard 1 June 2021 09: 24
          +6
          a photo Historical and archaeological reserve Ancient settlement Arkaim (continued)








          1. Richard
            Richard 1 June 2021 09: 25
            +5
            a photo Historical and archaeological reserve Ancient settlement Arkaim. Stone woman


    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 11: 12
      +8
      ... Added works for the archaeologists of the future.

      But what a Klondike for pseudo-historians! fellow Colleagues, Mr. Samsonov, I hope no one spoke about Arkaim? hi
      When I just read that the Arkaim complex has a central settlement and settlements located around it, an analogy immediately suggests itself with the legend about "Sivol and the seven cities" that went among the Spaniards. In the first half of the 16th century, there was such - that, they say, "north of Mexico is the huge metropolis of Sivola, around which seven beautiful cities are scattered, and everything is in gold and rhinestones ". fellow When Vasquez de Coronado and his comrades in 1540 reached the desired settlement, a friendly Spanish language flew over the plain. belay "Sivola", according to those who saw it, was smaller than another Spanish farm, and the "cities" around it were large houses of local Indians, whom the Spaniards began to call pueblo. request The village was taken by storm, but they did not manage to plunder a special swag - due to his absence. Coronado wandered across North America for two more years, reached Missouri, but never found untold treasures. recourse After that, the interest of the Spaniards in this area disappeared for a long time ... hi
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 11: 34
        +6
        Colleagues, Mr. Samsonov, I hope no one spoke about Arkaim?

        T-ssss. wassat
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        that in the Arkaim complex there is a central settlement and settlements located around it

        I will say more Nikolay, that any settlement of a tribal society is usually located in a "nest" - the central settlement and settlements around it. hi
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 11: 43
          +7
          I will say more Nikolay, that any settlement of a tribal society is usually located in a "nest" - the central settlement and settlements around it.

          Honestly, I didn't think ... what And that's how it is! Thank you! good I envy your education a little, Sergey - white friendly envy! drinks
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 1 June 2021 21: 32
          +4
          "Cellular" communication, and no more. All that is possible, humanity "ripped off" biological life on this planet. The question remains: how are we better than ants?
          1. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 2 June 2021 10: 08
            +1
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            The question remains: how are we better than ants?

            Good afternoon Anton,
            this is already a philosophical question, and philosophy is an area of ​​knowledge that is too complicated for me! hi
      2. parusnik
        parusnik 1 June 2021 14: 02
        +7
        hi An almost similar incident happened in 1925, when the English traveler Percy Fossett, disappeared in the Brazilian jungle in search of a mysterious city. He made a map of an 1753th century document describing the discovery by the Portuguese in XNUMX of the ruins of an unknown dead city in the interior of the province of Bahia. And then his friend Sir Henry Ryder Haggard, gave him a figurine of black basalt, they say, a figurine of an unknown civilization. Fossett turned to experts from the British Museum, but they could not explain its origin to him, and then he turned to a psychometrist for help. who came into contact with the statuette and she told him that she was from Antlantis and Percy went on a journey and disappeared. Although if without humor, sorry for the man. An artilleryman, scout, topographer, traveler. A friend of writers such as G. Ryder Haggard and Arthur Conan Doyle. By the way, under the impression of Fossett's stories about his travels, Sir Arthur wrote the novel "The Lost World." Fossett fell for such a report.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 1 June 2021 21: 36
          +2
          Conclusion: never get fooled by "pranks".
  • Richard
    Richard 1 June 2021 06: 08
    +7
    Arkaim and "Country of Cities"

    This is the topic! good Thank you Valery.
    Put on coffee, went for cigarettes smile
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 1 June 2021 06: 10
    +4
    Thank you. How was the direction of migration determined?
    1. depressant
      depressant 1 June 2021 09: 11
      +6
      Good morning to the dear Author and everyone present! )))
      Good morning Sergey!)))

      In fact, there are several conflicting theories about who the founders of Arkaim were. Western scholars believe they were Proto-Greeks. This is allegedly evidenced by the commonality of artifacts and rituals, and most importantly, the Greek maendra pattern found on ceramics. Even a special term was introduced:
      Sintashta-Mycenaean culture.
      According to another theory, representatives of two cultures lived in Arkaim.
      Indeed, in the burial grounds of this time in the Urals, the remains of people of two types are found. Some of them are broad-boned stocky steppe dwellers, accustomed to the saddle and war. Others are thin-boned and graceful supposedly indigenous people of the Urals. There is no mixing of these two types! This unequivocally hints either at the long-standing caste nature of society, or at the short-term nature of contacts - the "thin-boned and graceful" were not local, lived a little, and moved on.
      However, most of the traditionalist scholars, both Russian and foreign, are of the opinion that the inhabitants of Arakim were still Indo-Europeans - speakers of Indo-European languages, aliens.

      Thus, some archaeologists and historians believe that the builders of Arkaim came from beyond the Balkans, while others believe that the ancestral home of the inhabitants of Arkaim is the Caspian steppes.
      Many Russian scholars insist that the founders of Arkaim were Indo-Iranians (Indo-Aryans). In doing so, they refer to the ancient texts of the Avesta and Rig Veda.
      First, the carriers of the Sintashta culture buried their inhabitants according to the Indo-European customs indicated in the Rig Veda.
      Secondly, the literary monument Avesta contains a direct "instruction" - a description of the construction of fortified structures like Arkaim, in which there is a fortified center, and the city's layout is concentric with three tiers of fortified walls and three radial main streets.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 1 June 2021 10: 56
        +3
        In fact, there are several conflicting theories about who the founders of Arkaim were. Western scholars believe they were Proto-Greeks. This is allegedly evidenced by the commonality of artifacts and rituals, and most importantly, the Greek maendra pattern found on ceramics. Even a special term was introduced:
        Sintashta-Mycenaean culture.

        This is how Internet myths are born, including those about insidious "Western scientists" and the secrets of the Vatican's libraries.
        Lyudmila Yakovlevna, could you name the source where the term "Sintashta-Mycenaean culture" is used and the names of these, if I may say so, scientists?
        In reality, the truth is the opposite - one of the theories of the origin of the Mycenaeans suggests that they are the result of the assimilation of the local domikene population by newcomers from the Eurasian steppes, moreover, it was the appearance of chariots that allowed these newcomers to get to Greece.
        1. depressant
          depressant 1 June 2021 11: 38
          +7
          Viktor Nikolaevich, do you want to drag me into a scientific dispute? )))
          But I do not belong to a scientific fraternity with serious competencies. I just outlined what directions of archaeological thought currently exist in assessing Arkaim, and your will to adhere to one of these directions and reasonably deny others hi
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 1 June 2021 13: 13
            +3
            I would be happy to argue with you, but if you don’t want to, it’s your will. However, can you identify the source where you got the information from?
            1. depressant
              depressant 1 June 2021 14: 16
              +3
              Yes, some site from LJ. What I read seemed impartial. I read it and deleted it. As if you want to accuse me of something criminal. What for? If I am in something wrong, explain.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 1 June 2021 14: 18
                +4
                Lyudmila Yakovlevna, for God's sake, I do not intend to accuse you of anything. I just became interested in the source of such conflicting information, nothing more.
                1. depressant
                  depressant 1 June 2021 14: 26
                  +3
                  Viktor Nikolaevich, then, so that you do not look biased towards me, tell in a nutshell which of the theories of the appearance and then abandonment of Arkaim do you think is correct.
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 1 June 2021 15: 23
                    +4
                    I do not consider myself in the question of Sintashta culture in particular and the history of the Bronze Age in general as competent to determine the correctness or incorrectness of theories of its appearance and disappearance.
                    Therefore, I follow in line with the most popular theory that the emergence of the Sintashta culture is the result of the migration of groups of the Indo-European population from the Eastern European steppe zone during the disintegration of cultures in the pit-catacomb area.

                    As for extinction, the most likely reason for me is the depletion of habitat resources and, as a result, the economic crisis.
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 1 June 2021 15: 49
                      +4
                      Yes, I caught something like that while browsing the Internet. From the Caspian zone, one part of either the Aryans, or someone else who was Caucasian, went north, and the other turned to the east, founded the City of Cities, did not like it, went south, penetrated into India, became the highest caste there - whites!
                      I saw a lot of pictures of representatives of the highest Indian caste, they are really white)))
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 1 June 2021 14: 59
        +3
        Good afternoon, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!

        Today Arkaim came to visit me. And before that, the word was associated, first of all, with unhealthy hype.
        1. depressant
          depressant 1 June 2021 15: 31
          +5
          Good day!)))
          About a year ago I noticed this hype, as well as the refrain "So this is where you came from, Russian land!" The date at least in the form of the initial millennium of the arrival did not come across. From there or somewhere else came the ancestors, I somehow did not care. But in vain. And I realized that in vain. Aggressive world politics forces to connect the territory of origin with a personal need to resist the invader. In order to have the full right to say "Mine! I will not give it up!", You need to know for sure that it is mine. And everyone rushed to look for their own, along the way reinforcing the idea of ​​their own significance with the antiquity of the territory of origin. Like, it was not the storks who just bombed us, we have been here for a long time. From this point of view, Arkaim is important. It is necessary to look on the walls "Vasya was here." True, over the years, the inscription could have been erased. They say the genetic trail remained.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 1 June 2021 18: 53
            +2
            I do not know. There is a piece of my "Little Motherland". If you realize the grandparents, the piece will be bigger.

            And where the children will move in and take root. And that they will be relatives - it is already possible to influence a little.
            1. depressant
              depressant 1 June 2021 19: 00
              +2
              Aha wassat )))
              And if you add uncles and aunts, then I have roots in the entire former Soviet Union - relatives everywhere. But ... connections are lost, I don't communicate.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 1 June 2021 19: 02
                +2
                You can't equip children together - everyone goes their own way. And so: the farm would grow. Maybe the city would have grown.
                1. depressant
                  depressant 1 June 2021 19: 16
                  +2
                  Well, you are a dreamer!)))
                  Tea, we do not live in the Early Middle Ages and not even in the 19th century. The end is not only for the farmsteads, but also for the villages.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 1 June 2021 20: 05
                    +2
                    "Know how to dream,
                    Without becoming a slave to dreams "(c).

                    It is hardly realizable. If I did, I would choose the Far East.

                    The second daughter has already headed for Moscow.
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 1 June 2021 20: 27
                      +2
                      It is difficult to live in Moscow, huge distances. But ... if you look far, then for a long time - this is Moscow.
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 1 June 2021 21: 44
                        +2
                        Have not tried it. I went to work for 17 years.
                      2. depressant
                        depressant 1 June 2021 22: 01
                        +2
                        Is it easier now?))))
                        "I got up, washed myself, drank coffee ...
                        He lay down, covered himself - and all do not care. "(C)
                      3. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 1 June 2021 22: 10
                        +2
                        Otherwise. 1-2 times a week is not every day.
                        On the other hand, more was read and corrected on long commuter trains.
                    2. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 1 June 2021 22: 18
                      +2
                      I'll throw a "lure". Haven't read V. Panov's Enclaves?
                    3. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 1 June 2021 22: 41
                      +2
                      Do not read. The first association is Vera Panova.
                    4. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 1 June 2021 22: 46
                      +1
                      Time will appear - try it. Vadim Panov, "Enclaves" cycle. I will not be able to download, I will send it in the previous mode.
                    5. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 2 June 2021 06: 39
                      +1
                      The son ran past. I caught it and made it download.
                    6. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 2 June 2021 06: 59
                      +2
                      Caught and forced
                      Household tyranny and domestic violence.
                    7. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 2 June 2021 07: 01
                      +2
                      “Because working together for my benefit - unites” (c).
              2. depressant
                depressant 1 June 2021 22: 50
                +2
                I look at Anton in horror. Yes, not Furmanov, but it has the property of it, such that you make your way along the wall, snuggling up to it, fearfully looking around, did not notice my dense unreadiness.
              3. Korsar4
                Korsar4 2 June 2021 06: 40
                +2
                And you ask him a math problem when he will run past the wall. And then the second, more difficult.
              4. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 2 June 2021 07: 01
                +2
                Uh-huh. I am a big fan of Mikhail's "New Mathematics".
              5. Korsar4
                Korsar4 2 June 2021 07: 05
                +2
                "The most correct chronology" and how is it measured?
            2. depressant
              depressant 2 June 2021 08: 42
              +2
              Yes, you see what the matter ...
              From the sea of ​​knowledge, you can always pull out a section in which even a competent person is incompetent. When Andrew Wiles failed the first defense of the proof of Fermat's theorem, his friends came to his aid, who en masse sorted out the weak points of the proof and quickly found solutions to the problems. The crowd is so as not to be ahead of others. And only after that the final defense took place. We sorted it out together, but the authorship was awarded to one, and, mind you, no one is offended. So I won't slip Anton anything, I'm not cruel)))
            3. Korsar4
              Korsar4 2 June 2021 09: 16
              +2
              I agree on all points.
            4. depressant
              depressant 2 June 2021 09: 43
              +3
              What about the rest? wassat ))))
            5. Korsar4
              Korsar4 2 June 2021 12: 04
              +1
              For the rest, I will stubbornly object.
            6. depressant
              depressant 6 June 2021 07: 39
              +1
              Oh, Arkaim! Your years are flying ...
              History unremitting flow
              takes the city into the forgotten
              and shining countries with spiers.

              There will be no us, but there will be a day
              Violence does not fade into the background.
            7. Korsar4
              Korsar4 6 June 2021 08: 22
              +1
              If she leaves, this does not mean that she will be lost.
            8. depressant
              depressant 6 June 2021 09: 25
              +1
              According to the law of conservation of masses?
              Do you think that if the Creator gave us a certain mass of cruelty, casually scattering it among the population (who is more, who is less), then so be it?
            9. Korsar4
              Korsar4 6 June 2021 11: 53
              +1
              And here the question is, how does it change over the centuries.
            10. depressant
              depressant 6 June 2021 13: 31
              +2
              In the civilized world, due to the gradual transformation of one of the two X chromosomes in men into the female Y chromosome)))
            11. Korsar4
              Korsar4 6 June 2021 14: 54
              +1
              That is, the kingdom of women is coming?
            12. depressant
              depressant 6 June 2021 15: 41
              +2
              Rather, the kingdom of uncivilized peoples, which the problem has not yet touched. But it won't rust. A little modern perfumery, food additives, fumes from industrial waste, and things will go well with them over time. And there, you see, and humanity as a whole will soften, gender parity will come. But this is all from biological myths.
              What is the age, so are the myths.
            13. Korsar4
              Korsar4 6 June 2021 18: 59
              +1
              How the terminology sounds slowly from all sides and changes a lot.
            14. depressant
              depressant 6 June 2021 19: 21
              +2
              And whispers creep from all sides
              Invisible, the flames of hell whisper to me:
              "I am waiting for you, I am your reward,
              Do not bow before the icon! "
            15. Korsar4
              Korsar4 6 June 2021 21: 23
              +1
              Is it yours? Very much.
            16. depressant
              depressant 6 June 2021 21: 35
              +1
              Impromptu. You, Sergey, somehow very cleverly succeed in encouraging me to put my thoughts into verse wassat
              Thanks! )))
            17. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 June 2021 01: 43
              +1
              “Muse visited me today.
              I sat down for a while and left ”(c).
            18. depressant
              depressant 7 June 2021 09: 30
              +1
              She left ... I rushed after her -
              Under outstretched wings!
              But ... "I wandered by accident,
              You keep eating lunch. "
              wassat ))))
            19. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 June 2021 10: 47
              +1
              Do you think if there was no dinner, the date with the Muse would have been longer?
            20. depressant
              depressant 7 June 2021 11: 15
              +2
              Sure! The poet must be gastro-dissatisfied and must be seriously offended by someone. Bodily and moral sufferings, uniting, activate the poetic individual to the desire for an answer, the realization of which in verse he perceives as his natural destiny and begins to scribble imperishable things. This is in the presence of a poetic gift. If there is none, a person simply goes to beat someone's face, or goes to some forum with a shout "How long!", Or even to a rally turned up on the occasion))))
            21. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 June 2021 11: 42
              +1
              Immediately, I immediately think about lunch.
              I wonder if you made money on it today?
            22. depressant
              depressant 7 June 2021 12: 01
              +2
              Is it so as not to scribble the imperishable? )))
            23. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 June 2021 14: 44
              +1
              Before 20 years have passed, the imperishable is not considered imperishable.
            24. depressant
              depressant 7 June 2021 15: 11
              +1
              Man evaluates quickly, humanity slowly. People are the cells of humanity. It is necessary that a certain local community of people in a fairly short time recognize the thing as incorruptible. But if the screams of delight do not affect the editors and the specialized Nobel Committee, then the incorruptible, recognized as such by a group of critics, will not take place. Reading what has been officially recognized as incorruptible over the past decades, I often wonder: "Is this junk?"
              And many years later, the deferred will open as a masterpiece. Namely, what hurts a person at all times.
            25. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 June 2021 15: 19
              +1
              Nice second phrase. Do you think there is no difference between the human system and the human system?
              Are the great cybernetics right?
            26. depressant
              depressant 7 June 2021 15: 47
              +1
              In my opinion, there is a certain similarity in the behavior of man and mankind. But if an individual person is able to advance arbitrarily far along the path of progress, as we understand it, then humanity lags behind such a person for many epochs. After all, humanity is divided into groups of people, and these groups, which we call countries, basically behave towards each other, like Neanderthals. As a result, it is possible to compare humanity and man only with this amendment taken into account.
            27. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 June 2021 17: 18
              +1
              Tyutchev:
              “We follow our century,
              How Creusa followed Aeneas:
              Let's go a little - we will weaken
              If we take a step down, we are lagging behind. "
            28. depressant
              depressant 7 June 2021 18: 00
              +1
              Yes, the era of mixing humanity has arrived.
              When it mixes, you get a homogeneous soup rubbed through a sieve, then cybernetics and politicians will begin to grub it in full portions. In the meantime, scattering their developments here and there, cybernetics, at the suggestion of politicians, grind the nations that have escaped through the cybernetic sieve, while politicians throw - not in a sieve - primitive nations right into the soup like a pepper additive. This is to distract the worn-out developed from understanding what is happening. And then once again they will grind the resulting slurry through a sieve to enhance its homogeneity, and creativity will end. At least the one that is usually called original.
            29. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 June 2021 18: 02
              +2
              You can study globalization using the example of standard sandwiches. But they won't get to the wilderness quickly.
              I love country roads.
            30. depressant
              depressant 7 June 2021 18: 34
              +2
              If standard sandwiches do not get into the wilderness, then the wilderness itself will reach for them, for the earth is full of rumors wassat )))
            31. Phil77
              Phil77 7 June 2021 18: 39
              +2
              Here I do not understand. recourse And the sandwiches? Who today? belay
              I understand conspiracy, but sandwiches ????
            32. depressant
              depressant 7 June 2021 19: 13
              +2
              Sandwiches as a symbol of civilization. At least that's how I understood Sergei. Well, there are all sorts of McDonald's, and after them all the other "nishtyaks" attributing the life of the hinterland to "civilization".
              So, this will not happen. Kudrin and Deputy Prime Minister Khusnullin have already outlined a population drive to cities of hyper-super-super million, where the population is much easier to manage. This is where the population will taste "sandwiches".
            33. Phil77
              Phil77 7 June 2021 19: 48
              +2
              Immediately, immediately, immediately. It came to mind! laughing

              Where I am definitely on the left! laughing
            34. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 June 2021 20: 55
              +1
              Yes. I'm reading the book on Anton's tip. I learned this style: cyber-punk. Just about gigapolises. This is what we are going to.

              It's good that there are still trees.
            35. depressant
              depressant 7 June 2021 21: 38
              +2
              I think the meaning of the idea of ​​the reindeer breeders' community is as follows. To drive all Russians into super-agglomerations, in fact - concentration camps, and the vast territories liberated with perished villages, dilapidated small towns and medium-sized towns falling into desolation are leased to foreigners for long periods with the right of subsequent redemption. The Russian ethnos will be replaced by strangers. Russians in super-cities will also gradually and imperceptibly dissolve among the mass of strangers. We will simply disappear.
              Yes, it will not be right away, but some processes tend to accelerate. You will say it is impossible. No, maybe. The Chinese are also driving their own into hyper-cities. For example, in Chongqing - 29 people live. The city absorbs neighboring villages. But the Chinese do not replace the Chinese with outsiders, they simply liberate the land to return it to its original appearance. Unlike China, we are few, 914 times smaller, and the territory is much larger. We do not produce enough children, we will not be able to protect such a territory. Even fewer children will produce super cities. Foreign countries will look at the deserted lands with increasing lust. Russia, while retaining its name, will be protected by the presence of rapidly breeding aliens on its territory. The government will let them in already as citizens. They, strangers, will be given our land, our ancient cities with the right and the need to defend the country called Russia. History will be rewritten. We Russians will simply disappear.
            36. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 June 2021 21: 50
              +2
              I will not say. The question is what can be done? Daughters in due time to marry?
            37. depressant
              depressant 7 June 2021 22: 57
              +1
              Sergei, we have overloaded this topic, we need to move on to another, for example, to armor. Today I am already tired, and tomorrow I will find you and answer.
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 7 June 2021 20: 53
      +1
      Seryozha, fortunately sandwiches are not only on holidays.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 7 June 2021 18: 53
    +2
    Does it look like Nietzsche? Abyss ... bully
  • depressant
    depressant 7 June 2021 19: 14
    +2
    Looked into the abyss:
    - Awww!
    Abyss:
    - What are you yelling at? Come on down!
  • Phil77
    Phil77 7 June 2021 18: 12
    +2
    Good evening, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! And I understood you perfectly. And slowly, little by little, we realized what was happening, we begin to move from the internationalism that was once instilled in us into ... yes, what can we hide there! Into some semblance of nationalism. Although it even started it even not yesterday. So? Although I do not exclude that I misunderstood you.
  • depressant
    depressant 7 June 2021 18: 26
    +2
    Yes, you understood correctly, Seryozha. Only we do not pass, we are "passed" into this state and started long ago.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 7 June 2021 18: 32
    +2
    So after all, there is simply no special resistance to this process. Judging by myself. There was: before * I felt some semblance of pity for * these *. It became: when the process became unregulated and * these * became simply prohibitively LOT. Pity went somewhere and something completely different came. feeling. What? It is known to everyone living in big cities, but it’s for now. The process is going on and it’s uncontrollable.
  • depressant
    depressant 7 June 2021 19: 01
    +2
    And a very simple feeling that arises when the priority of the Russian nation's own mentality is replaced by its displacement and subsequent transfer to the second grade. On their own land. In the homeland of their ancestors. They drove us out of their ancestral homeland, now they oust us from the homeland of our ancestors. Feeling of loss, Seryozha.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 7 June 2021 19: 08
    +2
    Uh, no, this is a different feeling, stronger, you know. am
  • Phil77
    Phil77 7 June 2021 18: 17
    +2
    How difficult it is to be a poet. Here you are physical / always hungry /, here you are moral / always gloomy, gloomy, thinking about life / suffering. Oh God! Poor poets!
  • depressant
    depressant 7 June 2021 18: 30
    +1
    Well, opportunistic poets are not poor. Only not all are given to be opportunists to the full. Those who have a poetic or writing gift combined with the ability to change skin, if necessary, have their desks bursting. Take Yevtushenko or Mikhalkov.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 2 June 2021 07: 50
    +2
    Hmm ... I clearly have to lose weight.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 2 June 2021 09: 17
    +2
    The summer has begun. Before meeting with Lyudmila Yakovlevna?
  • depressant
    depressant 2 June 2021 09: 45
    +2
    "We met somewhere."
    I don’t remember what it was. Either a movie, or a play))
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 2 June 2021 12: 05
    +2
    Comedy. With Raikin.
  • depressant
    depressant 2 June 2021 12: 37
    +3
    There was an era, there was a man. Gone is the era - ayuuu!
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 2 June 2021 13: 51
    +1
    New people will come. Others.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 2 June 2021 14: 13
    +2
    Uh-huh. Adapters.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 7 June 2021 18: 37
    +1
    There was Raikin, Zadornov came, Zadornov left, came .... Comedy Club. And the humor became uncomfortable.
  • depressant
    depressant 2 June 2021 12: 35
    +2
    Don't be thinner beyond recognition, Anton! Do you know that a thin man differs from a fat man with increased aggression due to lack of nutrition? And it doesn't matter at the expense of what kind of food - bodily or spiritual.
    The choice is yours - to be gastrointestinal dissatisfied or to be absent from the source of mental pleasure, to which the printed word certainly belongs)))
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 2 June 2021 13: 11
    +1
    Do not grow thin beyond recognition,
    Not transparent enough. Like Nabokov ...
  • depressant
    depressant 2 June 2021 13: 58
    +1
    Not transparent enough, means excessively darkened - a dark personality?
    Oh, something is not living for me today.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 2 June 2021 14: 11
    +1
    No, this is in Nabokov's "Invitation to Execution".
  • depressant
    depressant 2 June 2021 14: 23
    +2
    A ... Filling with otherness.
    My advice to you: to be different, it is enough to be all.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 2 June 2021 13: 52
    +1
    Sometimes aggression can be used for relatively peaceful purposes.
  • depressant
    depressant 2 June 2021 14: 11
    +3
    I have no peaceful goals today!
    Someone called the intercom for a surprisingly long time - the person showed patience, and I showed it too (I'm learning from Anton). That person and I - we both listened for a very long time to a concert for an intercom with an orchestra in the form of a snarling dandelion mower.
    The tension of feelings plunged me into half-sleep, and then my mobile phone rang out. God! ... How everything inside trembles, how painfully the heart pounds.
    But how to show aggression towards someone who is heard but invisible?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 2 June 2021 14: 14
    +2
    To extinguish forest fires with small nuclear charges.
  • depressant
    depressant 2 June 2021 14: 30
    +3
    Aha wassat )))
    DPS brakes a fire truck and asks:
    - Why is there no fire extinguisher?
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 2 June 2021 17: 31
    +1
    "Stop now!" (from).
  • Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 6 June 2021 02: 42
    0
    In order to have the full right to say "Mine! I will not give it up!", You need to know for sure that it is mine.

    I am awaiting claims from India and Iran to the South Urals. The Arkaim people are rather their ancestors, not ours.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 1 June 2021 06: 13
    +5
    However, some researchers argue that a kind of ecological catastrophe took place in the "Country of Cities". Simply put, the aliens so polluted and littered their cities and the surrounding area that it was easier for them to burn everything and leave.

    unconvincing version-burn, but retreat 5-10 km, and rebuild a lot of land.

    The climatic version of the departure is more convincing - there is already a couple of kilometers to solve it ...
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 1 June 2021 06: 50
      +5
      If cattle breeding prevailed, the pastures could have been knocked out.
      Another question is how thoroughly it was worth building the settlement at that time.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 1 June 2021 13: 47
        +6
        Quote: Korsar4
        the pastures could have been knocked out.

        This version is now considered as the main one.
  • tlauicol
    tlauicol 1 June 2021 06: 49
    +6
    I wonder why the hell build a city in such a hole? no navigable river, no sea, no forest, no stone ... Steppe and steppe all around.
    What did they do?
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 1 June 2021 07: 06
      +6
      Cattle breeding suggests itself. Only we do not know for sure what the landscapes were like at that time. That will not change in just a couple of thousand years.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 1 June 2021 07: 15
        +4
        Quote: Korsar4
        Cattle breeding suggests itself. Only we do not know for sure what the landscapes were like at that time. That will not change in just a couple of thousand years.

        then corrals are needed. and the parking was stationary.
        if grain, then barns or jugs, mills, etc. The choice of location is not clear.
        maybe artisans for the rest of the nomads settled here?
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 1 June 2021 09: 12
      +4
      Quote: Tlauicol
      I wonder why the hell build a city in such a hole? no navigable river, no sea, no forest, no stone ... Steppe and steppe all around.
      What did they do?

      Ore mining and handicrafts
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 10: 40
        +10
        Ore mining and handicrafts

        - Eh, a glorious place! - said the philosopher. - Here is where to live, to fish in the Dnieper and in the ponds, to hunt with snares or with a gun for little bustards and rabbits! However, I think, and there are many bustards in these meadows. Fruit, however, can be dried and sold to the city, or, even better, you can smoke vodka from them; because fruit vodka cannot be compared to any penny. And it doesn't hurt to think about how to get out of here. (Homa Brut, "Viy").
        1. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 1 June 2021 11: 02
          +6
          Quote: Pane Kohanku
          because fruit vodka cannot be compared to any penny

          And what is a "penny"?
          never met such a term hi
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 11: 14
            +6
            never met such a term

            It is necessary to ask Viktor Nikolaevich! drinks Sometimes he talks so deliciously - you just remember Gogol. good Pennik - probably what kind of brew? what
            1. Mihaylov
              Mihaylov 1 June 2021 11: 47
              +2
              Quote: Pane Kohanku
              Pennik - probably what kind of brew?

              It is written that strong bread wine (outdated).
              Apparently, matured home brew. drinks
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 11: 49
                +4
                Apparently, matured home brew.

                Apparently, you can drink, but fruit vodka is tastier, according to the philosopher. yes
                1. Mihaylov
                  Mihaylov 1 June 2021 11: 51
                  +3
                  Quote: Pane Kohanku
                  Apparently you can drink

                  For lack of a better one. Sake is also matured mash.
                  but fruit vodka is tastier, according to the philosopher.

                  Although I am not a philosopher, I also think so. drinks
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 12: 26
                    +3
                    Although I am not a philosopher, I also think so.

                    First - fruit vodka, only then - deep philosophy. stop Proved by Socrates and Plato! yes
                    1. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 1 June 2021 12: 34
                      +3
                      Quote: Pane Kohanku
                      Proved by Socrates and Plato!

                      Plato: - Shouldn't we slap a glass?
                      Socrates: - Note, it was not I who suggested it!
                      1. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 12: 46
                        +3
                        Plato: - Shouldn't we slap a glass?
                        Socrates: - Note, it was not I who suggested it!

                        The main thing is to write down the wisest thoughts! laughing otherwise they will be forgotten! And philosophy will lose whole deposits of truth ...
                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 1 June 2021 18: 54
                        +1
                        For this I respect Socrates and the druids. Everything was easier to remember. Writing is boring.

                        Now this habit has formed a character.
              2. Undecim
                Undecim 1 June 2021 13: 46
                +3
                Pennik, or foamy wine, is a type of bread wine.

                In today's units: half-alcohol - 38% by volume, foamy wine - 44,25%, triple - 47,4% and double alcohol - 74,7% (used in medicine, pharmacology and perfumery).
                This was in those distant patriarchal times when the process of rectification in the production of spirits was not used, only distillation, one of the products of which was called bread wine. And vodkas were called all kinds of tinctures on this bread wine, such as erofeich.
                I have probably already mentioned the book "The History of Russian Strong Drinks. A reference book on the main issues of the history of distillation" by Boris Viktorovich Rodionov, everything is described in great detail there.
                No need to read Pokhlebkin.
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 1 June 2021 13: 57
                  +3
                  That's right, why read Pokhlebkin - he's a historian.
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 1 June 2021 14: 01
                    +2
                    No need to read Pokhlebkin.

                    My phrase refers exclusively to his book "The History of Vodka" and should not be taken literally. However, Pokhlebkin, with all due respect, was too "bronzed".
                    1. ee2100
                      ee2100 1 June 2021 15: 39
                      +5
                      Yes, I just like that! hi
                      Thanks to the research (?!) of Pokhlebkin, Soyuzplodoimport was able to defend in the international arbitration court for the USSR the right to sell vodka abroad with the indication “vodka” on the label.
                      I would also be bronzed! Then doubts arose, but the comrade fulfilled the order!
                    2. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 1 June 2021 18: 55
                      +1
                      I really like Pokhlebkin's books on spices and others.
                    3. ee2100
                      ee2100 1 June 2021 19: 06
                      +1
                      I agree, it is simple and easy to read.
                  2. Undecim
                    Undecim 1 June 2021 20: 22
                    +1
                    Thanks to the research (?!) of Pokhlebkin, Soyuzplodoimport was able to defend in the international arbitration court for the USSR the right to sell vodka abroad with the indication “vodka” on the label.

                    This is an urban legend that Pokhlebkin himself invented.
                  3. ee2100
                    ee2100 1 June 2021 20: 29
                    0
                    Maybe, but nobody denied it. In the 90s, the Poles indirectly confirmed it to me. As far as I remember, he received an award for a book about vodka.
                  4. Undecim
                    Undecim 1 June 2021 20: 37
                    +2
                    Maybe, but nobody denied it.

                    The version that Moshe Dayan is a Chevalier of the Order of the Battle Red Banner has not been officially denied either.
                  5. ee2100
                    ee2100 1 June 2021 20: 48
                    0
                    Happy for Moshe Dayan!
                    Many orders were presented, and then distributed. good
      2. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 14: 04
        +5
        Quote: Undecim
        exclusively - distillation, one of the products of which was called - bread wine

        My mother still speaks in the old fashioned way about an abusive person - "he drinks wine." drinks
        And vodkas were called all kinds of tinctures on this bread wine, such as erofeich.

        And I thought that erofeich is a strong vodka (in the modern term) or, more precisely, a distillate with a strength of 60 degrees, that is, what is now called pervach? hi
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 1 June 2021 14: 12
          +3
          And I thought that erofeich is a strong vodka (in the modern term) or, more precisely, a distillate with a strength of 60 degrees, that is, what is now called pervach?

          1. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 1 June 2021 14: 15
            +4
            Some kind of gamemaster turns out
          2. ee2100
            ee2100 1 June 2021 15: 44
            +2
            My first "Erofeich" was in the year 1976-77. I went very tight. I never went drinks
            This was also the last experience with this drink.
          3. Phil77
            Phil77 1 June 2021 19: 02
            +2
            Gourmets! laughing
            This is one of the nastiest potions I've ever used. The body didn't want it at all, but ... there is such a word * must *.

            Until now, * On the wave of my memory *, the nasty taste of this product is felt! The horror is terrible. wassat
          4. ee2100
            ee2100 1 June 2021 19: 08
            +2
            Sergey! Drive away the one who makes you use it drinks
          5. Phil77
            Phil77 1 June 2021 19: 17
            +1
            Already, back in 1986, it was just that sometimes it was impossible to get anything else, but I remember this disgusting taste. belay
          6. ee2100
            ee2100 1 June 2021 19: 44
            +1
            And I have a lot of negative experience, and with Erofeichm and Sherry, everything is connected with this. Erofeich would be expensive and therefore on free sale, he cost more than 4 rubles, and vodka 3,62.
            Well, sherry. We came to the store, and there only he and vintage cognac.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 14: 25
    +6
    is what is now called pervach?

    Can you replace the English mint from your recipe with another one? belay And then I want to suddenly insist - what should I now, to Alexei-Boltorez to contact? request "Please send the mints, sir!" laughing
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 15: 13
    +3
    Here with mint I have Anglo-French wars - English peppermint does not come to my wife at all - give her a French spearmint. And for me they are all the same. Not like that in Latvia and Poland either.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 15: 16
    +4
    And for me they are all the same. Not like that in Latvia and Poland either.

    Erofeich's recipe clearly says - English! stop In general, you need to ask the Corsair this question - he is still a professional in scented plants. drinks
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 15: 22
    +3
    clearly said - English!
    That is, peppery. She has a sharp, intense taste. Goes more for mint liqueur, from which you can swallow Stinger- self-explanatory name yes , although a cocktail appeared (70/30 mint liqueur with cognac) long before FIM-92.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 1 June 2021 21: 56
    +1
    English mint is the second name for peppermint.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 1 June 2021 18: 57
    +1
    And then there is lemon balm, catnip and other essential oil plants.
    I respect both thyme and galangal root.

    And there is always a bucket of vodka.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 1 June 2021 15: 07
    +2
    The best distillation fraction is soft and clean.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 1 June 2021 09: 35
    +1
    Steppe and steppe around

    Yes, the steppe, but not simple, as it is now, but the tundra steppe with its richness of dried grass, hay on the vine, interspersed with forest. And the tundra steppe is an abundance of large herbivores, well, like in the prairie herds of bison. There was no shortage of food, but climate change played a role.
  • Richard
    Richard 1 June 2021 11: 42
    +5
    What did they do?

    bronze metallurgy
    Why the hell even build a city in such a hole?

    availability of raw materials for smelting metal and timber for smelting furnaces
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 1 June 2021 13: 50
    +7
    Quote: Tlauicol
    What did they do?

    Sedentary cattle breeding. It turns out this also happened. I saw this in Mongolia in the early 90s. In the summer they wander about the steppes with their rams, in the winter they return to the cities and live in apartments.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 1 June 2021 18: 58
      +2
      The first associations were with Mongolia. A colleague is constantly there.
  • Fat
    Fat 5 June 2021 01: 06
    0
    Judging by other reconstructions. Wood in Arkaim was present in large quantities both as a building material and as a fuel for metallurgists. Now there (for a long time) there is a steppe. It is not known how good the logistics were for the Arkaims, but it is clearly more difficult to melt bronze on dung than on charcoal. An energy crisis rather than an environmental crisis ....
    All the forests in the area were uprooted and merged.
  • Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 6 June 2021 02: 44
    0
    I wonder why the hell build a city in such a hole? no navigable river, no sea, no forest, no stone ... Steppe and steppe all around.
    What did they do?

    They write that in those days it was quite an attractive area. Wet steppe with large islands of forest. Plus the copper deposits are nearby. Paradise for Bronze Age pastoralists.
    No traces of agriculture have been found.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 1 June 2021 06: 51
    +5
    Although I live nearby, one thing is clear that no one really knows anything. And the theories can be put forward the most incredible, only with the confirmation of the problem.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 1 June 2021 07: 37
    +15
    The author recalled the mystics and isoterics, but with his article he only added fuel to the fire, especially giving Arkaim the title of "mysterious civilization".
    In reality, if we rely on purely scientific information, Arkaim is not a separate "civilization" that was suddenly discovered in 1987. Arkaim is one of the settlements of the Sintashta archaeological culture of the Bronze Age (late III - early II millennium BC), which, in turn, is part of a group of close archaeological cultures known as the Andronov cultural-historical community.
    The area of ​​distribution of culture is a small area along the eastern slope in the south of the Ural ridge (400x200 km). There are about 20 fortified centers with an unusual architecture for the area; burial grounds with a peculiar rite, as well as sanctuaries and unfortified settlements, sometimes making up a whole complex together.
    To date, 22 fortified cultural settlements have been found in the Chelyabinsk and Orenburg regions. The largest are Arkaim, Bersuat, Kamenny Ambar, Kuysak, Sintashta, Ustye, Stepnoye, Kizilskoye, Alandskoye, Sintashta II.
    In the 1960s, one of the largest archaeological expeditions in the USSR, led by archaeologist V.F.Gening, worked in the South Urals, in the Bredinsky District of the Chelyabinsk Region. The reason for the work was the construction of a dam on the steppe river Sintashta.
    The expedition discovered a complex of monuments uniting a fortified settlement and a Bronze Age burial ground.

    Plan of the eastern part of the Sintashta settlement. As you can see, it is very similar to Arkaim.
    The most valuable archaeological find of Sintashta is parts of wooden chariots, possibly the oldest in the archeology of Northern Eurasia, and cheekpieces. The spoked wheels were dug by about one third into the bottom of the grave pits, thanks to which they were well preserved.
    Thanks to this find, and not the discovery of Arkaim, the Trans-Ural steppes turned out to be closely connected with very distant territories, since in many respects similar carts and details of horse harness are known from the Balkans and Western Asia to Altai.
    The Sintashta River gave its name to the burial ground and settlement. The burial ground, on the other hand, became the so-called eponymous monument, that is, it determined the name of all subsequent archaeological complexes of this culture, including Arkaim.
    I will allow myself to recommend this book for those interested. This will remove both mysticism and esotericity from Arkaim.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 1 June 2021 07: 49
      +8
      The author recalled the mystics and isoterics, but with his article he only added fuel to the fire, especially giving Arkaim the title of "mysterious civilization".
      and further

      This commentary reveals the "secret" of Arkaim much more fully than the entire article. And the real secret of these places, the Southern Urals and the Middle Volga is precisely that it was possible that a spoke wheel was invented there, and a horse was domesticated even earlier, and when you have transport, why not look for a better place.
    2. Mihaylov
      Mihaylov 1 June 2021 10: 57
      +5
      Quote: Undecim
      The most valuable archaeological find of Sintashta - parts of wooden chariots, possibly the oldest in the archeology of Northern Eurasia

      Perhaps, but there is an assumption that the "chariot complex" was brought from the steppes of the North Caucasus and the lower Don to the South Urals. hi
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 1 June 2021 10: 58
        +4
        It is not possible to present all the options and hypotheses in a commentary format. My goal was to briefly highlight the issue.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 12: 54
          +5
          My goal was to briefly highlight the issue.

          Viktor Nikolaevich, Sergei Mikhailov and I have a burning question! wink I quoted Khoma Brutus higher on the branch, so enlighten us - what is a "penny", which, according to the philosopher, is "worse than fruit vodka"? drinks
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 1 June 2021 13: 35
            +5
            Hi Nikolay!
            "Foamy wine", "pennik." The best brand of vodka obtained from the semi-finished product "simple wine" was foamy wine, or pennik. This name did not come from the word "foam", as is often wrongly thought now, but from the word "foam" , which meant in the 1902th - 100th centuries the concept of “the best, concentrated” part in any liquid. (Similar to “cream” in a figurative sense: for example, “cream of society.”) In the Old Russian language, the word “foam” also meant the top, the top layer of any liquid. Hence, the foam was called the best in distillation production, the first fraction when distilled from simple wine. The foam was a fourth or even a fifth of the volume of simple wine, and obtained at a very slow ("quiet" and "quietest") fire. Obtained in this way, the strongest and richer in alcohol, lighter fraction of simple wine was used for the production of penny. terms n "pervach". 24 buckets of pervacha, diluted with XNUMX buckets of clean, soft, cold spring water, and gave a penny, or foamy wine, which was about the same price as natural grape wine. The contemporaries describing the penny did not emphasize at all its strength, but that it was a "good wine" with purity, softness and drinkability. Pennik has always been filtered through coal, although he needed it less than other brands of vodka.

            Along with the pennik, there were other degrees of dilution of simple wine with water, which produced vodka brands weaker in strength and cheaper in cost: they were designed for different categories of consumers - both "affordable" and by gender and age "
            Pokhlebkin.
            All the same, a historian! Including Russian cuisine
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 14: 53
              +6
              All the same, a historian! Including Russian cuisine

              Alexander, I believe it was a Man! good "Wasserman from cooking". By the way, it looks like it!
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 1 June 2021 15: 41
                +2
                A very strange death!
                A person of broad outlook and deep knowledge.
          2. parusnik
            parusnik 1 June 2021 14: 13
            +2
            I rummaged in the vastness of the tyrnet, dug up the following: Pennik, strong bread wine, a kind of moonshine, distillate prepared "from mash or fermented with yeast bread wort, obtained, like beer wort and kvass, through malt and bread flour".
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 14: 22
              +5
              wine, a kind of moonshine, distillate

              That is, Pan Philosopher was quite a gourmet? wink Don't give him vodka - pour Calvados straight away? drinks
              1. Mihaylov
                Mihaylov 1 June 2021 14: 27
                +6
                Quote: Pane Kohanku
                pour calvados right away?

                Moreover, not any, but only this:
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 14: 49
                  +5
                  Yes, not just any, but only such

                  Do not believe I was drinking Valaam Last year. Priests, it turns out, fart and them too. wink For the first and last time in my life. yes But our Viktor Nikolaevich respects him very much. so your label makes sense to be! drinks
                  1. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 1 June 2021 14: 52
                    +5
                    Quote: Pane Kohanku
                    Believe it or not, I drank Valaam last year. Priests, it turns out, fart and them too.

                    Why won't I believe it? Believe it!
                    For this you need apples and a moonshine still - if in our way, in a brutal way.
                    If it is correct, then you must first make the cider. drinks
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 14: 56
                      +5
                      If it is correct, then you must first make the cider.

                      One friend of mine makes cider in the Volosovsky district. I tried it once - tasty and strong.
                      Why won't I believe it? Believe it!

                      There is also a familiar Korean, on his site (and he lives from the north of St. Petersburg) he grows everything. Just kidding - "Igor, your watermelons will also be pricked up if you want to grow them."
                      1. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 15: 03
                        +4
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        One friend of mine makes cider in the Volosovsky district.

                        Distilled and properly aged cider is Calvados.
                        But cider is not easy to make.
                        Once I drank cider brought from Normandy from a barrel: they often sell it in barrels on the streets, like we used to have kvass. In principle, it was similar to kvass, which they used to make themselves, my grandmother used to make it, only with apple flavor. drinks
                      2. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 15: 28
                        +4
                        But cider is not easy to make.
                        Apples of special varieties rich in tannins are used for cider - otherwise it will simply be a mash with apple exhaust and laxative effect. In England it is drunk unfiltered and very cold. Two pints cause an incomparable psychedelic-trance state and a hangover in just a couple of hours.
                        Cheaper cider (usually white ace) - made from juice concentrate - is sold for 2lb 2 liters in plastic "torpedoes" and is consumed by local outcasts. It tastes like carbonated acetone.
                      3. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 15: 51
                        +2
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        Apples of special varieties rich in tannins are used for cider

                        The cider that we are now selling is Russian-made: some kind of carbonated apple juice with a small addition of alcohol. Before the sanctions, cider could also be bought from Europe. hi
                      4. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 16: 14
                        +2
                        Apple carbonated juice with a slight addition of alcohol.
                        Something like a Swedish Kopparberg? I know. Real, condo wassat is a scrumpy (variety) from small growers. But this is very much an amateur (like me). And the cider-like swill is sold out with a bang - in pubs they add a little chopped fruit and mint, ice and lemonade yes ready. Tasty and not burdensome (he himself is not a fan of this).
                      5. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 16: 19
                        +3
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        Something like a Swedish Kopparberg?

                        Not familiar with this. "Russian cider" of course has little in common with real cider, but in principle it is not disgusting, in the summer you can skip a glass. drinks
                      6. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 16: 23
                        +3
                        Most likely this is exactly a similar pseudo-hydr, which they drink so as not to get drunk, but just to sit. To each his own, yes. I wish the Russian manufacturer success and market share.
                        Yes, the South African Savanna is not bad. A cross between English apple mash and lemonade from the Swedes.
                      7. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 16: 31
                        +3
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        Most likely this is exactly a similar pseudo-hydr, which they drink so as not to get drunk, but just to sit.

                        Yes, that's right, the alcohol content there is very small - "childish".
                        "Pseudosydr" is apparently a precise definition.

                      8. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 16: 45
                        +2
                        I have not seen a single one from the first photo on sale in England. Somersby is seen outside of England. And Vasileostrovsky, judging by the bottle, should be good.
                      9. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 16: 50
                        +3
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        And Vasileostrovsky - judging by the bottle, it should be good.

                        Yes, he is probably the most decent one.
                        Even now, this is common in our country:

                        Other regions probably have their own brands. hi
                      10. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 16: 53
                        +2
                        Lys is rather closer to Swedish undersides (good cider is not poured into aluminum). By the way, how much?
                      11. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 16: 58
                        +2
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        Lys is closer to Swedish undersides (good cider is not poured into aluminum)

                        Him and the price - 50 rubles (euros are now 90), Vasileostrovsky - about 250-270 rubles, the 5th ocean - somehow took 130 rubles.
                        Chester - 100 rubles. drinks
                      12. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 17: 04
                        +2
                        (euro is now at 90)
                        It's even easier for me to count - ruble = penny. Vasileostrovsky is about as good in England, the rest are one and a half to two times cheaper. In England, excise taxes are high.
                      13. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 17: 08
                        +2
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        It's even easier for me to count - ruble = penny.

                        I looked: a pound of about 100 rubles.
                        There used to be a lot of imported ciders, in almost any supermarket, but because of the course they are very rare now, usually in alcohol stores, the price for it turns out to be 300-500 rubles, they are not in demand. hi
                      14. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 17: 12
                        +2
                        Well, you can put your own cider yes ... Good luck to the Russian cider producers!
                        I often read about unreasonably high retail margins in Russia.
                      15. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 17: 17
                        +2
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        I often read about unreasonably high retail margins in Russia.

                        I don't know how many, but not 2-3% that's for sure wassat
                      16. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 17: 25
                        +2
                        British textbooks say 12-20% for retail. Naturally, it depends on the product category, and the real margins are classified by networkers.
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 17: 15
        +2
        "Pseudosydr" is apparently a precise definition.

        These (in bottles of 0,75) are also sold foreign. At Okey and Vkusville. But the price, however, is more than 400 rubles. for a bottle! request
      3. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 17: 18
        +2
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        But the price, however, is more than 400 rubles. for a bottle!

        When this one costs 150-200 rubles, we sometimes allowed ourselves a bottle, but at 400-500 it turns out somehow a little expensive. drinks
      4. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 17: 20
        +3
        When this one costs 150-200 rubles, we sometimes allowed ourselves a bottle, but at 400-500 it turns out somehow a little expensive.

        Well, actually, yes. Strong alcohol is cheaper! drinks
      5. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 17: 26
        +1
        And how much is a liter of good vodka?
      6. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 17: 33
        +2
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        And how much is a liter of good vodka?

        I would say that there is no good vodka in Russia today. drinks
      7. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 18: 10
        +2
        there is no good vodka in Russia today
        belay
        And what is there? At least imported varieties?
      8. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 19: 08
        +3
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        And what is there? At least imported varieties?

        I'm just now a bad expert in this matter, since I stopped using vodka in the form of rectified a few years ago, although I used to prefer vodka.
        Recently, it is true that Absolut drank a little, it costs about 1,5 thousand per 1 liter. Finland is about the same.
        Of the Russian elite vodkas, "Beluga" is advertised - 2 thousand rubles, but I have not tried it, I do not know what to say.
        Such "promoted" brands such as "Tsarskaya" or "Russian Standard" - from 700-800 rubles per liter.
        The lowest price for vodka is about 300 rubles per 1/2 liter, it is impossible to get cheaper under the law.
        Now I rarely drink and only grape or fruit: there are imported ones, like grappa (1-2 thousand for 0,5-0,7 liters), there are also Russian or "near abroad" - for example, Armenian (from 700-800 rubles for 1 / 2 liters).
        Something like that. drinks
      9. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 19: 16
        +2
        "Standard" in England is 16 pounds / liter, one of the cheapest. Absolut \ Finland approx. 20 lb \ liter. I drink almost exclusively gin myself, but it's just interesting. Also curious if the import will come to you if that.
      10. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 1 June 2021 19: 33
        +3
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        Also curious if the import will come to you if that.

        It's hard to say, the ruble exchange rate for imported goods is very bad (this is apparently done on purpose).
        With England in Russia, the standard associations are gin and beer.
        Beefeater and Gordons are massively sold from gin: about 1500 rubles for 0,7 liters, there is Bomdey (blue), but in my opinion it is more expensive. There are Russian gins, much cheaper, but I don’t know what their quality is, I have never tried it. There are other gins, even the Japanese have seen, but not so popular. hi
      11. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 19: 46
        +3
        Beefeater and Gordons: about 1500 rubles for 0,7 liters,
        In England, 1300 re is worth. Deshman by local standards.
        Bomdey (blue),
        Probably Bombay Sapphire? (By the way, only the blue bottle) It is also a bit more expensive here - 17 pounds for 0.7. The Japanese Roku isn't worth half its £ 32. In general, the infa is interesting, thank you.
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 2 June 2021 09: 04
    +2
    Of the Russians, only Beluga norms. Nothing hurts since morning. Until you open your phone and read what you have written)))
  • ee2100
    ee2100 1 June 2021 16: 14
    +3
    Here's another product that didn't come in. You take him there, and he back am

    This field was put into circulation
    1. Mihaylov
      Mihaylov 1 June 2021 16: 21
      +2
      Quote: ee2100
      Here's another product that didn't come in. You take him there, and he back

      I didn’t have a chance to face this, probably for the best.
      In general, dry (fino) Spanish sherry is one of my favorite drinks, it's a pity now it's not very common, and the price for this course "bites". drinks
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 1 June 2021 16: 31
        +3
        You are probably talking about the modern, i.e. original. But in Soviet times! It was 1981 Summer, it's hot! And a drink at room temperature.
        1. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 1 June 2021 16: 34
          +3
          Quote: ee2100
          You are probably talking about modern, i.e. original.

          Yes, I meant the original. I didn’t have a chance to taste the Soviet Moldavian sherry. Although our modern sherry is Massandra, in principle, nothing. drinks
        2. ee2100
          ee2100 1 June 2021 17: 01
          +3
          In general, I am not friends with fortified ones. Sometimes port is better than whiskey drinks
        3. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 1 June 2021 17: 02
          +2
          Quote: ee2100
          In general, I am not friends with fortified ones.

          I, in general, too, very rarely in cold weather you can afford a glass - another. hi
        4. ee2100
          ee2100 1 June 2021 17: 22
          +2
          Friends from Crimea appreciate very much, especially Masandra. Although after the age of 14, almost all wineries have changed their product line and now dry wines are in the lead by a wide margin.
          Very good Crimean grappa
        5. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 1 June 2021 17: 24
          +1
          Quote: ee2100
          Very good Crimean grappa

          In 2017, I brought this one from Crimea, really very good. Recently I saw her in Okey. hi
        6. ee2100
          ee2100 1 June 2021 17: 33
          +1
          A restaurant owner presented a bottle of Crimean grappa to an Italian, he was surprised that it was really possible to call Crimean grappa, and not rakia, etc.
          But rated it very well!
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 1 June 2021 19: 00
    +1
    Sakhalin began with Calvados. Liked everything. I understand Pan the philosopher.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 1 June 2021 16: 07
    +2
    Perhaps, but there is an assumption that the "chariot complex" was brought from the steppes of the North Caucasus and the lower Don to the South Urals

    Perhaps, but the most ancient finds of chariots on spoke wheels are in the Southern Urals.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 1 June 2021 13: 54
    +4
    Thank you, Victor Nikolaevich. I already thought myself - I will finish reading the comments and write something similar, it seemed to me that this is the look we are missing today. But since you I could not. smile hi
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 1 June 2021 13: 57
      +1
      But since you I could not.

      Not true.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 1 June 2021 14: 30
        +3
        So - definitely not. smile
        I would be less informative, without drawings, reference material, and much less scientific. hi
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 1 June 2021 14: 50
          +3
          Wow, I was absent for half an hour, and already someone thoroughly missed all my comments on the article. Someone's on fire.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 14: 58
            +3
            Wow, I was absent for half an hour, and already someone thoroughly missed all my comments on the article. Someone's on fire.

            I corrected my karma as much as I could. They slapped me for the first couple of cons. There are usually 4-5 of them.
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 1 June 2021 15: 13
            +3
            Mine have not missed yet. laughing
            Well, nothing, they will be in time, the evening has not begun yet. smile
            I’m thinking - if they are so zealous to put downsides, then they themselves are afraid of them, otherwise why? I don’t care, so I don’t bet. Sometimes I forget to put the pluses, then I will return to the dialogue in one gulp for everything at once, but I don’t remember the minuses when I put it last time ... Not so long ago, but I don’t remember who and why.
            Maybe it's time for us to start minus too? A little something wrong - a minus! Sooner or later we will get into our personal minus, causing him unbearable pain ...
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 1 June 2021 15: 30
              +1
              I know one of my haters for sure, he could not resist, wrote that he was looking forward to the moment when I would be forever banned again.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 1 June 2021 16: 03
                +6
                I don’t know, and I don’t want to know. laughing
                What for? As a representative of a more highly organized matter, I even rejoice at their minuses. Means not in vain I write. smile And sorting them out by nickname is like trying to figure out the varieties ... well, this ...
            2. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 21: 57
              +4
              Maybe it's time for us to start minus too? A little something wrong - a minus! Sooner or later we will get into our personal minus, causing him unbearable pain ...

              So, so, "gentlemen-comrades are personal minusators." Learn to communicate normally, and not scatter cons. In general, for example, I rarely put them, unlike your codla. From "opinions" came - there is the main dominance of idiots .. Surely followers of one social theory. Be HUMANS, not individuals. And then .. and the truth .. will get! With such "communists" the country does not need enemies either.
              It is you who boldly distribute to the cowardly anonymous Caudloy the cons ... Will fly to you too! yes
              It got me, Michael. And all of them can be calculated by our esteemed moderators, that's for sure. And for bullying - a ban, according to the rules of the site.
              A bunch of cowardly degenerates handing out cons just like that. I think they consider themselves "the honor and conscience of the nation" ... negative Unfortunately. What "heroes" are urinating under themselves, such is the nation! request
  • Denimax
    Denimax 1 June 2021 11: 58
    +3
    The funnel-shaped entrance looks strange for a settlement. But it is well suited for corraling livestock and further distribution in a circle in the cages. This makes it easier to distribute food and keep an eye on the animals. Maybe it was a wintering facility or a livestock market. IMHO
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 1 June 2021 15: 31
      +3
      The funnel-shaped entrance is also relatively easy to protect from intruders.
      1. Denimax
        Denimax 1 June 2021 19: 38
        +2
        In my opinion, such elements of fortification appeared much later, in theory they should then be present at every entrance. I do not deny that the structure had a defensive function, walls 3-5 meters thick to this in confirmation.
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 1 June 2021 16: 28
    +3
    Quote: Mihaylov
    If it is correct, then you must first make the cider

    More precisely apple wine. Cider is a semi-finished product, no need to rush. drinks
  • Doliva63
    Doliva63 1 June 2021 19: 30
    -3
    Comrade Ryzhov V.A., before your article, I knew more about Arkaim and the Land of Cities, honestly! laughing
  • balabol
    balabol 2 June 2021 00: 12
    +2
    The technology for creating drinks like cider and calvados began with an attempt to utilize the apple harvest. Spoiled and battered fruits were used. Large volumes were processed, so the technology is not very laborious, but requires accuracy. Apples were cut or rubbed with a special coarse grater and squeezed out in presses, the easiest way was to use a grape press. Oilcake for livestock. It's all about. The juice has been fermented, so the sweet varieties provide a higher% alcohol in the final product. Carefully monitor the fermentation process, avoiding strong acidification. Drain, removing foam and sediment, filtered, poured and allowed to ripen for a couple of months. Depending on the process, the drink is obtained by strength like beer. It tastes very good and intoxicates.
    If there is a lot of cider, then it can be distilled. As before, and now, an alembic type alembic is used. This allows the original apple flavor to be conveyed to the final product - Calvados.
    You can try all this yourself at home. BUT! You need a lot of free apples, otherwise it's cheaper to buy in the store. You shouldn't even start with less than 20-30 liters of juice.
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 2 June 2021 09: 07
    +2
    One of our impressionable relatives was there and even slept in a tent. He said that he felt something unusual and esoteric. The place of power speaks. And no needles in the chariots will convince him.
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 2 June 2021 13: 59
    0
    Quote: balabol
    BUT! You need a lot of free apples, otherwise it's cheaper to buy in the store. You shouldn't even start with less than 20-30 liters of juice.

    In our area (Voronezh) this good is in bulk. You can start.
  • nonsense
    nonsense 2 June 2021 15: 49
    -2
    hmm ... a wild fantasy of the author in the style of Ernest Muldashev ... Why complicate things? Arkaim - simply caravanserai medieval merchants! Ashkenazi for example. They drove caravans from Europe to China and back. Until in the 16-17 century, shipbuilding and navigation did not develop and overland trade became unprofitable. IMHO if you look for such arkaims in the steppe and now you can "find" a lot. Within a couple of three caravan crossings from each other ...
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  • irontom
    irontom 3 June 2021 13: 26
    +1
    Temporary map of the distribution of chariots from archaeological sources.
  • Dimk_z
    Dimk_z 3 June 2021 17: 42
    0
    It resembles the Chinese houses of the Tulou fortress (taking into account the difference in size, of course ...).
    For those interested in:
    https://masterok.livejournal.com/7107184.html