Military Review

The head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade announced the development of a project for the modernization of the 5th generation fighter Su-57

152

There was information about the adoption in the development of a project aimed at modernizing the Su-57 fighter. According to the latest data, a project is being developed to modernize a fifth-generation aircraft by the Military-Industrial Commission in conjunction with relevant departments.


I shared this kind of information with the audience. TC "Russia 1" Denis Manturov, Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation.

The minister stressed that the fifth generation fighter has just begun to appear in the armament of the Russian Aerospace Forces, and "we are already thinking, preparing (for modernization), since this is a constant process."

Denis Manturov on the air of the program “Moscow. Kremlin. Putin "did not specify. At the same time, it should be noted that not so long ago in the media there was information about the possibility of arming a new generation fighter with hypersonic missile weapons, as well as the latest systems of interaction with attack drones. Previously, the Su-57 has already performed test flights in tandem with the Hunter heavy attack UAV.

It is planned that the joint actions of the fighter and the drone will make it possible to effectively overcome the enemy's air defenses and achieve targets when performing operations "on the front line."

The Su-57 is one of four 5th generation fighters in service in the world. In addition to the Su-57, these are the American F-22 and F-35, as well as the Chinese J-20.
Photos used:
company "Sukhoi"
152 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 31 May 2021 06: 25
    +3
    What already?!!!
    Let us accept at least one squadron and form at least one squadron!
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 31 May 2021 06: 29
      +23
      Modernization is a process that cannot be stopped. Improvements and additions will be constantly. The usual thing.
      1. volodimer
        volodimer 31 May 2021 07: 05
        +2
        For example, they are developing a new radar for an aircraft and it has different dimensions. This means that its installation requires a slight change in the configuration of the nose and finalizing the fairing in order to maintain stealth. Here comes the upgrade. And for this you should not wait for the formation of a squadron.
        1. Avior
          Avior 31 May 2021 07: 37
          +5
          And each aircraft in the squadron will have its own unique radar and fuselage shape? A very strange idea ...
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 31 May 2021 11: 13
            -5
            What for? Free architecture allows after the previous models to finish up to the level of improved ones? Is not it so?
            1. Avior
              Avior 31 May 2021 13: 22
              +4
              Free fuselage architecture
          2. volodimer
            volodimer 31 May 2021 12: 58
            -2
            And there are few weapons in our country and in the world, which later underwent modernization "to the level of ..." Or do you propose not to work for the future until we have created "a sufficient number of uniform samples." If there is already something that can be used to improve the Su-57, then we must try to implement it. And in particular, precisely because there are still few of them. In order to then put on stream what will be even better. As long as 4 ++ holds the sky securely, this can be allowed.
        2. Barberry25
          Barberry25 1 June 2021 16: 54
          0
          well, as it were, radars are made in rigidly specified sizes, and any replacement is essentially an upgrade ..
      2. aleks neym_2
        aleks neym_2 31 May 2021 07: 30
        0
        One does not interfere with the other, everything goes along the path of improvement - otherwise it is impossible, you will lose the pace and time.
        1. Avior
          Avior 31 May 2021 08: 26
          +8
          Even as a hindrance, unification was not just invented. Each type of radar requires its own trained specialists, the mismatch of the fuselages requires keeping a stock of radars of different types for replacement - hell is just for technical personnel
          1. volodimer
            volodimer 31 May 2021 13: 06
            0
            Sergey, I'm talking about the radar and the fairing dimensions purely for example. And the fact that he is really alone ... This is sadness. Of course, let them build more, even in this version. But if there is something to improve, with the same hypersonic missiles, we need to prepare for this. It is possible that after the 10th aircraft there will be a modification with changes that are pleasant for us and very unpleasant for the enemy. hi
            1. Avior
              Avior 31 May 2021 17: 10
              +4
              I think there should be at least a regiment to collect the necessary information
              Different nuances appear on different copies
              1. volodimer
                volodimer 31 May 2021 17: 25
                0
                So I do not argue. But if there is already something that is going to be added / improved, then it should be done. If there are only 10 instead of 8 in the current configuration, but 2 more in the modernized configuration, this is acceptable. In my opinion.
                While the Amer. Are hammering with the F-35 and are going to write off the F-22, we have a margin of time to rework the Su-57. But most importantly, to prepare for serial production.
                While this is closer to the piece.
        2. Cosm22
          Cosm22 31 May 2021 09: 53
          +7
          One does not interfere with the other, it is.
          But what prevents the media from being more precise in their wording?
          When an inexperienced reader reads expressions like "the fighter began to appear in service with the Russian Aerospace Forces" or "The Su-57 is one of four fighters belonging to the 5th generation and in service in the world", he may get the impression that these fighters in the troops of the Russian Federation is clearly more than the available ONE copy. Which are already preparing to modernize.
          Or are there already more items in the troops? Did I miss something?
      3. ohka
        ohka 31 May 2021 09: 01
        +3
        It's like with the roads - why do things well right away, then the road workers will be left without work and without money.
      4. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 31 May 2021 12: 31
        +6
        Quote: carstorm 11
        Modernization is a process that cannot be stopped. Improvements and additions will be constantly. The usual thing.

        So I'm wondering why submarines in the United States have been built in sub-series (blocks) for decades. Will they build several submarines and immediately develop a new project (generation)? Are we so far behind the West?
        1. volodimer
          volodimer 31 May 2021 13: 19
          0
          You yourself have answered your own question. Virginia BlockI and BlockIV there only the body is the same, and the filling is completely different, count 4 different projects.
          1. Lt. Air Force stock
            Lt. Air Force stock 31 May 2021 14: 06
            0
            Quote: volodimer
            You yourself have answered your own question. Virginia BlockI and BlockIV there only the body is the same, and the filling is completely different, count 4 different projects.

            So what prevents us at least from touching the body and changing only the filling? They would at least partially save time and money in the construction of new submarines.
            1. volodimer
              volodimer 31 May 2021 14: 12
              0
              So we have a variety only due to the fact that Soviet boats are still serving, and the projects on which new ones are being built are on one hand. So it is possible that this principle will prevail.
              https://topwar.ru/58149-podvodnye-lodki-vmf-rossii.html
        2. Barberry25
          Barberry25 1 June 2021 16: 57
          0
          laughing 1) even within the series, the Americans carry out modernization in the event of inconsistencies. 2) no one is developing a "new project" ... The experience is corny taken into account, the technical specification is corrected to improve / reduce the cost of the project .. Or do you think it is necessary to produce a deteriorated version with childhood diseases?
          1. Lt. Air Force stock
            Lt. Air Force stock 1 June 2021 17: 42
            0
            Quote: Barberry25
            Or do you think it is necessary to produce a degraded version with childhood diseases?

            If there are no obvious shortcomings that require immediate correction, then there is no need to climb anywhere, you need to do as the Americans do, they carry out R&D, they accumulate updates until the efficiency / effectiveness of new design solutions significantly increases and they are introduced in the next block, and we have every innovation strive to implement faster. It is good that the Ministry of Defense came to its senses with Borey-B and rejected the modernization project due to the inconsistency of the cost / efficiency criterion. And so still, the terms have moved again, since the constant changes in the project shift the deadlines very much.
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 1 June 2021 17: 48
              0
              oh yeah .. we needed to build ordinary Boreas ... instead of Borey-A .. "brilliant" solution .. you probably have a lot of money once you want to buy 10 not very successful submarines, then to write them off and buy another 10 nuclear submarines , in which they solved the problem of the first ... The Americans in the same way make changes in the course of the series and individual ships, the difference is that the information is usually in English and on specialized forums and until no one is born to translate into Russian, then publish it on several blogs information does not pop up on Topvar ...
              1. Lt. Air Force stock
                Lt. Air Force stock 1 June 2021 17: 58
                0
                Quote: Barberry25
                oh yeah .. we needed to build ordinary Boreas ... instead of Borey-A .. "brilliant"

                No, Borey-A is very different from the original Borey, in fact, a new body (contours), etc. I spoke about Borey B.
                Quote: Barberry25
                You probably have a lot of money, once you want to buy 10 not very successful submarines, so that later you can write them off and buy another 10 submarines, in which the problem of the first ones was solved ... The Americans make changes in the course of series and individual ships in the same way, the difference is the fact that the information is usually in English and on specialized forums and until no one is born to translate into Russian, then the information does not pop up on Topvar on several blogs ...

                The Americans have been building a submarine for decades in blocks, then there is an improved project and then a completely new submarine. And we want to build Ash M's 9 submarines, and then a new project Husky, which will be built for ten years, and maybe longer. The fact is that in the United States, the same Virginias of the first block were modern at the time of construction, it was only then, over time, technologies developed and new technical solutions appeared - the same new horseshoe-shaped HAC instead of a spherical one. Who knows, maybe this new SAC appeared after the first serial Virginia, but they did not immediately implement it so as not to shift the date for the adoption of submarines. And we would immediately begin to implement it and this would shift the adoption of the submarine by 2-3 years. That is, a new submarine would not have left the stocks for several years.
                1. Barberry25
                  Barberry25 1 June 2021 18: 02
                  0
                  laughing and where did you write about Borei-B? you wrote about "we didn't need to touch the hulls", so it was about the first Boreys. About Ash and Husky .. NOBODY from MO did not say and does not say that Ash will be only 9 ... This is the current order for 9 boats, just Serie..Husky is a development for the future, taking into account the work, this is about 12-15 years, when the actual question of "we need a new nuclear submarine" will already be raised. and not suddenly "..
                  1. Lt. Air Force stock
                    Lt. Air Force stock 1 June 2021 18: 09
                    0
                    Quote: Barberry25
                    you wrote about "we didn't need to touch the hulls", so it was about the first Boreas.

                    The first Borei were built from what was, they used the backlog of the hulls of the Shchuka-B and Anthei submarines. The same with the first Ash, which was built since 1993. The first submarine Borey Yuri Dolgoruky began to build back in 1996, naturally, during this time, progress has stepped far forward.
                    1. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 1 June 2021 21: 02
                      0
                      but following your logic, it was necessary to build on the basis of what was available .. that there is a mistake ... yes, they refused from B-shek, because there is a large amount of R&D and the price increase is significant, but I think that then they will slobber money for developing the base as a whole for either modernization or a next-generation project ... In fact, from our new projects, the series is almost never changed radically ... the only example: corvettes, but even there, in fact, we are talking about changing either strike or defensive weapons ..
      5. RealPilot
        RealPilot 31 May 2021 13: 07
        -1
        We are working on bugs. And this is correct, natural and wise. Why build a lot of raw machines? The Su-35 can also be called a highly modernized Su-27, but these are aircraft of different capabilities for a long time.

        The Americans, for example, want to write off the first series of F-35s. Precisely because of the rush with the initial production of a non-ready aircraft.
      6. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 1 June 2021 19: 31
        0
        Quote: carstorm 11
        Modernization is a process that cannot be stopped. Improvements and additions will be constantly. The usual thing.

        And you know, we believe the words of the minister, with the original education - a sociologist. It is sociologists who are important in this process, which can neither be stopped nor predicted where it may lead.
        ===========
        This "prophet" did not need to drink cold vodka in the cold with bad boys ... lol
    2. Thrifty
      Thrifty 31 May 2021 07: 11
      -5
      Actually, there are only TWO 5th generation aircraft F22 and Su57 in the world! EVERYTHING! !! The rest, according to the mass of criteria, do not correspond to the 5 generation, and especially the Chinese ones, which do not even have the necessary engine!
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. DMi
          DMi 31 May 2021 11: 35
          -6
          F35 even the American army is not needed. The production line is stopped. Not accepted for service. A number of politicians called this program a failure. But fanatics who think according to already outdated training manuals still fall for the periphery of American influence.
          1. Rageee
            Rageee 31 May 2021 11: 46
            +8
            F35 even the American army is not needed

            here they are the first victims of propaganda)
          2. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 31 May 2021 12: 43
            +9
            Quote: DMi
            F35 even the American army is not needed. The production line is stopped. Not accepted for service. A number of politicians called this program a failure. But fanatics who think according to already outdated training manuals still fall for the periphery of American influence.


            Where do you stock up on such heresy?
            which line is stopped?
            Airplanes are made at a rate of 30 pieces per month !!!!
            The production plan for the Su-57 in 76 units is designed for 10 years - compare the difference in production rates.
            1. DMi
              DMi 31 May 2021 12: 57
              -5
              On December 31, 2020 Bloomberg agency published unusual news:

              "The Pentagon has ruled to end full-scale production of Lockheed Martin Corp.'s F-35s indefinitely as officials still cannot say when the fighter will be ready for combat tests, which have been repeatedly postponed since 2017."


              Then look for yourself.

              And for the Russian Federation, production rates of more than 10-15 per year are simply not needed. The Ministry of Defense initially planned to adopt no more than 200 fifth-generation fighters.
              In fact, it turns out that the United States will have the same amount by that time) F22 will be written off completely. Most of the F 35 will be either decommissioned or not operational.
              1. SovAr238A
                SovAr238A 31 May 2021 13: 15
                +7
                Quote: DMi
                On December 31, 2020 Bloomberg agency published unusual news:

                "The Pentagon has ruled to end full-scale production of Lockheed Martin Corp.'s F-35s indefinitely as officials still cannot say when the fighter will be ready for combat tests, which have been repeatedly postponed since 2017."


                Then look for yourself.

                And for the Russian Federation, production rates of more than 10-15 per year are simply not needed. The Ministry of Defense initially planned to adopt no more than 200 fifth-generation fighters.
                In fact, it turns out that the United States will have the same amount by that time) F22 will be written off completely. Most of the F 35 will be either decommissioned or not operational.


                Now for more reliable news.
                Not taken out of context, but correct.
                On December 31, 2020, Bloomberg reported that the US Department of Defense had decided to postpone full-scale production of fifth-generation F-35 fighters for an indefinite period. The fact is that combat tests of this vehicle have not yet been carried out. What is interesting: the dates of their holding are constantly postponed from 2017, that is, for four years.
                The next test date was set for December 2020, but again they did not take place. The new date is planned to be determined after an independent technical examination. The month-long combat test is expected to take place between mid-to-late 2021. Prior to the Pentagon's decision to begin full-scale production of the F-35, Lockheed Martin will produce these combat vehicles "at low levels at the planned pace."


                I am translating into Russian.
                Lockheed Martin - does not have the right to independently change the speed of the assembly line.
                The Department of Defense has complete control over the assembly line.
                And it is it that gives or does not give the go-ahead "to increase the speed of the conveyor and the rate of production of finished aircraft."
                In this case, Bloomberg's news suggests that the US Department of Defense's annual assembly line test, Lockheed Martin, has failed. And it will continue to assemble the aircraft at the standard planned pace.
                And they wanted to double the assembly volume than it was previously planned !!!


                Details: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3175169.html
                Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to REGNUM.


                8 April 2021 to 10: 31
                At the Lockheed Martin facility in Fort Worth, Texas, the first fifth-generation F-35A fighter was rolled out and handed over to the Danish Air Force.
                1. DMi
                  DMi 31 May 2021 13: 50
                  -6
                  Those. the argument that American politicians and generals themselves are increasingly calling the F35 program a failure is technically bypassed) well, ok. This is also quite eloquent)

                  And regarding the production of this miracle, there is also such a text on Regnum.


                  Thus, the fate of the Joint Strike Fighter program will be decided in the next 2-3 years. It is very likely that purchases of F-35 fighters for the US Armed Forces will be phased out.

                  Despite the fact that Lockheed Martin has a strong lobby on Capitol Hill, lobbying for an ineffective and expensive fighter jet will not work indefinitely, as the task of maintaining US global dominance remains on the agenda. And if we talk about military dominance, then for the United States it starts with gaining air superiority. And for this we need another - reliable and inexpensive to operate - a fighter with a combat potential corresponding to the task.

                  At the same time, one must understand that the fate of the F-35 will largely depend on the actual results of the Next-Generation Air Dominance program. Here, as in any business, cadres are everything. NGAD will have a better chance of success if the new US administration allows Will Roper, who retired on January 19, 2021, to continue serving in the US Air Force. So, to begin with, we will monitor personnel issues.

                  Of course, Lockheed Martin will retain a share of the market and continue to supply these combat vehicles to the US allies. The allies will buy them as a tribute for military and political patronage from Washington. In Europe alone, the company plans to deliver up to 500 F-35 fighters by 2030.



                  Details: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3175169.html
                  Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to REGNUM.
                  1. SovAr238A
                    SovAr238A 31 May 2021 14: 00
                    +5
                    Quote: DMi
                    Those. the argument that American politicians and generals themselves are increasingly calling the F35 program a failure is technically bypassed) well, ok. This is also quite eloquent)


                    I, from my couch, do not consider the F-35 program to be a failure.
                    The queue for planes for 10 years ahead.
                    All new non-US vassal countries would like to buy these aircraft, but the delivery time is longer than 7-10 years.
                    For, first of all, deliveries go to the program participants.
                    The same Denmark, although it received its first plane, will be in the USA for another 3 years, and Danish pilots will learn to fly on it.
                    And only in 2023 - he will fly to Denmark. With the rest released by this time for Denmark.
                    Therefore, they are taking now that Greece, Croatia, Rafali from the French Air Force. But here and now.

                    And the same Lockheed Martin is trying to double the speed of the conveyor in order to have time to saturate the market, since such delivery times lead to the fact that many countries that have exhausted the resource of their aircraft have nothing to fly. And to wait another 10 years without a combat-ready air force is nonsense ...

                    And yes. Regnum for me is a source of stupid information.
                    Not an indicative resource.

                    And you just bypassed the pace of production of the Su-57 and F-35 - for you this is also not an argument that you eloquently and skillfully bypassed ...
                    1. DMi
                      DMi 31 May 2021 14: 36
                      -4
                      Read carefully. I answered about the rate of production. 10-15 SS 57 per year is the optimal pace. More is simple and unnecessary. The Russian army does not need 3200 fifth-generation aircraft as planned by the United States. And in the future there will be no need to rack your brains than to load a bloated production, designed for hundreds of units annually.
                      1. Rasul Aliyev
                        Rasul Aliyev 31 May 2021 18: 28
                        +4
                        The Russian army needs 3200 5th generation airplanes but cannot afford it financially. And so I ordered only 70 airplanes like this.
                      2. DMi
                        DMi 1 June 2021 12: 32
                        -1
                        Suddenly. Even the USA cannot afford 3200 fighters of the 5th generation)) It really came to them only now. When the budget is bursting and crumbling and is not enough for anything. But the plans are still Napoleonic. Just by inertia.
            2. Avior
              Avior 31 May 2021 19: 34
              +3
              They have more than half a thousand aircraft not considered full-scale production.
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 31 May 2021 16: 18
          +3
          "Production line stopped" ///
          ---
          You have not figured it out.
          The line operates 24 X 7 at full capacity.
          For the US Air Force, 70 aircraft purchased per year is an average batch.
          There is no permission for large series - purchases of 200-300 cars at a time
          three-year lots.
      2. VO3A
        VO3A 31 May 2021 13: 40
        -1
        There is one full-fledged aircraft of the fifth generation F35 in the world and only as part of the American network-centric system. Even the F35 aircraft of European countries that do not use or do not have access to the American system are not 5th generation aircraft ... These are aircraft with the capabilities, if you like signs, of the 5th generation aircraft ... The 5th generation aircraft only exists as part of a network-centric system, without this system it is not functional ... Even the F22 is being finalized to be able to fully function in this system ... All other aircraft are aircraft with the characteristics of a 5th generation aircraft ... The Korean aircraft is especially touching and already a 6th generation aircraft being developed in europe ... They do not even understand yet what it is all about ...
    3. Rageee
      Rageee 31 May 2021 11: 56
      0
      The main feature of the 5th generation aircraft is a dramatic decrease in the aircraft's visibility in the radar and infrared ranges, and in this regard, the Su-57 has not gone far from the Su-27 line ... Plus, the 2nd stage engine is still not ready, which should provide drying cruising supersonic without afterburner. And let's not forget that these aircraft are not yet in combat units ..
  2. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 31 May 2021 07: 13
    +1
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Let us accept at least one squadron and form at least one squadron!

    "Do you love children? No ... but the PROCESS itself ... !!" And why are you in a hurry? stop As the wisdom of the General Staff says: "Garbage is war! The main thing is maneuvers!" yes
  3. Piramidon
    Piramidon 31 May 2021 10: 38
    +1
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    What already?!!!
    Let us accept at least one squadron and form at least one squadron!

    Modernization is carried out continuously from the first test flight to the end of the service life. What does the adoption have to do with it?
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 31 May 2021 11: 18
      +2
      If I am not mistaken, then before being put into service there is debugging... Which allows even a design change.
      But after the adoption and the beginning of the series, it goes modernization.
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon 31 May 2021 12: 19
        -2
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        If I am not mistaken, then before the adoption of the armament is fine-tuning

        Adjustment, revision, design changes ... all this is included in the concept of modernization.
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 31 May 2021 12: 44
      +4
      Quote: Piramidon
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      What already?!!!
      Let us accept at least one squadron and form at least one squadron!

      Modernization is carried out continuously from the first test flight to the end of the service life. What does the adoption have to do with it?


      Despite the fact that without the accumulation of a large number of flight hours - by ordinary combat pilots - there will be no full-scale information to understand the level of required improvements and modernization ...
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon 31 May 2021 13: 12
        -3
        Quote: SovAr238A
        Despite the fact that without the accumulation of a large number of flight hours - by ordinary combat pilots - there will be no full-scale information to understand the level of required improvements and modernization ...

        I will repeat it again. Modernization is a constant process and it is done as needed, regardless of how long the product has been in operation. I myself was a witness when a plane from the factory came to the regiment and a brigade of its representatives came next to make improvements on this plane. hi
  4. venik
    venik 31 May 2021 20: 44
    0
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    What already?!!!
    Let us accept at least one squadron and form at least one squadron!

    =========
    And what's the big deal? Once (it was a long time ago, back in the days of the USSR!), The "product" was just passing the test, and we already New sensors dragged to the landfill! It's funny, but there he ran into his own Parent (he himself already had his own family and lived separately from his parents). Dad "* the leading design engineer of the" theme ") then he was terribly indignant: Still the sensors of the" 1st stage "did not have time to start the series, and you have already dragged the next ones !?
    Nothing! By the way, it was with the "modified" sensors that the "product" went into series!
  • Avior
    Avior 31 May 2021 06: 26
    +1
    information about the acceptance into the development of a project aimed at modernizing the Su-57 fighter

    What kind of modernization, only one piece of it was made ?!
    What are going to upgrade?
    Or will the modernization be instead of the production of the Su-57?
    The further, the stranger: ((
    Are you planning to modernize the fittings too?
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 31 May 2021 06: 33
      -3
      10 flight prototypes made; 3 prototypes for ground testing; 1 serial.
      hi
      1. Normal
        Normal 31 May 2021 06: 43
        +6
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        1 serial.

        And a colossal operating experience has already been accumulated, on the basis of which the modernization will be carried out.
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 31 May 2021 06: 47
          -1
          colossal operating experience has been accumulated, on the basis of which the modernization will be carried out.

          Dont clear smile will we upgrade this 1 production aircraft?
          By and large, the SU-57 is an expensive vehicle for the war, and there will be no rush to produce it upstairs ... it makes no sense.
          The SU-35 is now more needed for day-to-day flights ... than the SU-57 for which it is still necessary to create an accompanying service and undergo technical training.
          How much does an hour of flight on the SU-57 and SU-Z5 cost now and compare what is more needed for the Air Force.
          1. Normal
            Normal 31 May 2021 07: 02
            +4
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            will we upgrade this 1 production aircraft?

            That was sarcasm.

            Quote: Lech from Android.
            it is also necessary to create an accompanying service and undergo training of the technical staff.

            By itself. But how to do it without the object of service and the subject of training of the technical staff.
          2. mark1
            mark1 31 May 2021 07: 04
            0
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            The SU-57 is an expensive vehicle for the war and there will be no rush to build it upstairs ... there is no point.

            How does it make no sense? And "if TOMORROW is a war .."?
            1. Lech from Android.
              Lech from Android. 31 May 2021 07: 10
              -3
              And "if TOMORROW is a war .."?

              If tomorrow there will be a war at war, there will be massive equipment (like the T-34) that can be created quickly and in the required quantity.
              For the production of the SU-57, the entire industry needs to be rebuilt ... you can't just stamp large quantities of components for it.
              Therefore, such a small number of SU-57s ordered for the Russian armed forces.
              1. mark1
                mark1 31 May 2021 07: 25
                +3
                Quote: Lech from Android.
                If tomorrow there will be a war at war, there will be massive equipment (like the T-34) that can be created quickly and in the required quantity.

                Duck, after all, it still needs to be created and brought up and mastered (distributed to private factories!) It is necessary to build factories * preferably underground and terribly classified with secret workers), because there will be no WWII with the rear "Everything for the front .." - the rear will practically be fit the forefront. In general, what we do before the war, we will fight on that. If we break the enemy well in the early days and with modern technology, then it will be easier to follow through on the mob later. stocks.
                1. Lech from Android.
                  Lech from Android. 31 May 2021 07: 39
                  0
                  If we break the enemy well in the early days and with modern technology, then it will be easier to follow through on the mob later. stocks.

                  I envy your optimism hi ... historically, the enemy first breaks in to us ... and then, having gathered strength through the incredible tension of our people, we break into the enemy ... we correct the jambs of the top leadership, so to speak.
                  1. mark1
                    mark1 31 May 2021 07: 44
                    0
                    Quote: Lech from Android.
                    I envy your optimism

                    And I envy yours ... After they break us in, there will be nothing to strain and the T-34 will have nothing to build on, the war will be fought with the resources that were stored before.
                    And according to your scenario, revenge can be very long (300-500 years), while running through the forests we will not exhaust everyone (or they will die themselves)
            2. Errr
              Errr 31 May 2021 09: 44
              +2
              Quote: mark1
              And "if TOMORROW is a war .."?
              Then the day after tomorrow there will be deathly silence, because to butt with Russia is the same as in nettles ... to dangle. laughing
              1. mark1
                mark1 31 May 2021 11: 42
                +1
                A saber in your hands, my friend, and a hot horse ... lead us, father, your children ...
                1. Errr
                  Errr 31 May 2021 15: 04
                  0
                  The checker will not help here, but the Strategic Missile Forces will fulfill their function in full at a critical moment of confrontation. hi
          3. For example
            For example 31 May 2021 07: 05
            -5
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            How much does an hour of flight on the SU-57 and SU-Z5 cost now and compare what is more needed for the Air Force.

            ZP pilots get one hell, which is 35, which is 57 (I'm talking about combat pilots)
            Techies also receive salaries according to the staffing table.
            The planes eat diesel fuel in the same quantity because the engine is the same.
            Pilots are trained within the same walls.
            The airfield is the same.
            The infrastructure is the same.


            Why should the flight hour be different?
            Essentially write the math of your statements.

            They got the clever guys who got it into their heads that everything can be measured with dough.

            It is your gang that translates the Victory Parade into loot.
            1. Lech from Android.
              Lech from Android. 31 May 2021 07: 12
              +1
              This is your gang evaluating the Victory Parade.

              belay Spring aggravation or what?
              War is primarily about the economy ... and not just idle talk. hi
              How much can you deliver to deliver combat-ready equipment in a short period of time, equip it with everything you need, make up for combat and non-combat losses?
              All these things begin to creep out at a critical moment ... when there is an urgent need to fill the troops with the necessary equipment.
              1. Snail N9
                Snail N9 31 May 2021 07: 46
                +1
                Empty. Prototypes were also type of upgradeable prototype variants. Now called serial 1! (One! Karl!) The plane is already being upgraded. Mine doesn't even know what to say ... recourse
                1. For example
                  For example 31 May 2021 10: 11
                  -1
                  Quote: Snail N9
                  War is primarily about the economy ... and not just idle talk.

                  Exactly.

                  You, senor, blah blah blah again.

                  You say that the cost of a flight hour for the SU-57 and SU-35 is so different that it is not possible to operate the SU-57 at the moment.

                  Can you provide mathematics?

                  Otherwise, it is with you

                  Quote: Lech from Android.
                  empty chatter of the tongue.
                2. Errr
                  Errr 31 May 2021 11: 04
                  +1
                  Quote: Snail N9
                  Prototypes were also type of upgradeable prototype variants. Now called serial 1! (One! Karl!) The plane is already being upgraded. Mine doesn't even know what to say ... recourse
                  The train goes on the same tracks. Nothing new here. Only now I can not quite clearly remember now at what station (in what year) the conductors (sometimes even led by the machinist) began to regularly jump out literally at every stop with a joyful cry: "Hurray! We, gentlemen-comrades, are happy We arrived (lived) to this beautiful [another] stopping point! God favors us! Thank God! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray-ah-ah! " laughing
            2. Runoway
              Runoway 31 May 2021 07: 57
              +3
              The planes eat diesel fuel in the same

              Wow! That I missed the release of a diesel aircraft engine laughing
              1. Normal
                Normal 31 May 2021 08: 10
                +2
                Quote: Runoway
                I missed the release of a diesel aircraft engine

                Exactly. Blinked.
                Personally.
                Aviation diesel engine AN-1A and its development into M-30 and M-40. Still 30s
                https://topwar.ru/173099-aviacionnyj-dizel-tupikovaja-vetv-ili.html laughing
                But the appearance jet diesel aircraft engine on the Su-57, we all missed. Together.
                Woe to us. crying
            3. Andylw
              Andylw 31 May 2021 11: 52
              -1
              any spare part for su57 is unique and costs a lot of money, wait for it in case of a breakdown until the second coming
              and for conscientious dryers su27 / 30/35 there is always the possibility of cannibalization
          4. Runoway
            Runoway 31 May 2021 08: 10
            -2
            The SU-35 is now more needed for day-to-day flights ... than the SU-57

            And what is the SU-57 in essence at the moment ?! The same Su-35 + new avionics + new glider, (and the new avionics are so-so recourse , you can refine it endlessly, I will not reveal all the secrets, I will just hint at the mi28 radar, which was done 15 years ago, but they taught how to work flawlessly quite recently, and if one transmitter completes the radius, it will be + 5000m wink )
            If the budget had been larger, then it would have been stamped as an F-35 in the amount of ~ 100 units, and now it would be modernized, it would not hurt the ears.
            But in fact, with our "frantic" speed of product release, new requirements of the problem come out earlier and more, and before stamping, you need to decide on the "complete image and package"
            1. Normal
              Normal 31 May 2021 08: 36
              +2
              Quote: Runoway
              And what is the SU-57 in essence at the moment ?! The same Su-35 + new avionics +new glider,

              And what is the T-54? The same T-34 + new hull, turret, cannon, chassis and layout.
              1. EvilLion
                EvilLion 3 June 2021 07: 54
                0
                The new hull was obtained on the T-44 by a significant re-arrangement of the MTO, which made it possible to reduce its height by 300 mm, raising the level of armor of the T-44's forehead to prohibitive by the standards of World War II, and the tower there was shifted to the center.
          5. DMi
            DMi 31 May 2021 11: 38
            0
            And where can you find out how much an hour of flight SU 57 costs?
          6. VO3A
            VO3A 31 May 2021 14: 22
            -2
            The SU-35 is now more needed for day-to-day flights ... than the SU-57

            And here you are 100% right !!! The Su-57 is still not ready to use, there are no network-centric systems in which it can work, there are no adopted tactics and well-tested interaction ... One invention with the Hunter is not in the business ... There, the Su-30 should be used, and not the Su-57, you can see it immediately!
      2. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 31 May 2021 12: 46
        +4
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        10 flight prototypes made; 3 prototypes for ground testing; 1 serial.
        hi


        Our plant has not yet received all the equipment for the production of the Su-57, but people think that everything is fine.

        Moscow. January 19. INTERFAX-AVN - The modernization of the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft plant (KnAAZ) for serial production of Su-57 fighters will be completed by 2024, said the deputy general director of "Sukhoi" - director of KnAAZ Alexander Pekarsh.
        "Under the program of rearmament for a fifth-generation aircraft, all the planned facilities should be commissioned by 2024," Pekarsh said in an interview with the factory newspaper Krylya Sovetov.
        According to him, the plant is systematically equipping the assembly and assembly shops with additional stands and equipment for assembly, including unique swivel slipways designed specifically for the construction of the Su-57.
    2. kit88
      kit88 31 May 2021 10: 37
      +7
      Avior, that you muddy the waters. Aircraft are constantly being improved.
      Take the Su-27 for example. The first flight, as you remember, was 1977.
      Our regiment re-equipped with the Su-27 in 1986, and these were aircraft of the 15th series. In the 92nd, new boards of the 36th series arrived.
      The equipment changed, but there was no technical nightmare.
      There are nuances - a young summer will climb onto an old board, but cannot open the lantern - there is no handle in place! laughing A joke of humor.
      And it doesn't matter that there is only one Su-57 in the Air Force, how much time has passed since the day of development, the equipment is being improved, improved, instead of the obsolete one is being replaced by a modern one ...
      1. Avior
        Avior 31 May 2021 19: 39
        0
        How many Su-27s entered the army before the modernization began?
        One?
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 3 June 2021 08: 01
          0
          Most likely zero, since the Su-27M began to be developed as soon as the serial Su-27 was approved, by the way, the first versions of it carried only 8 missiles, and not 10, as is now commonly believed for this type.

          According to the MiG-29, 2 Soviet versions 9-12 and 9-13 are officially allocated, although the MiG-29S (9-13S) is also Soviet, just then, with the collapse of the Union, only 16 of them managed to be built by inertia in 1992-93.
          1. Avior
            Avior 3 June 2021 08: 29
            -2
            With the union, they simply made different versions in parallel. T-10M and T-10S
            and for the Su-27m the result is so-so - 3 aircraft.
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 3 June 2021 08: 33
              0
              The production of the Su-27M is already the 90s, and no questions for the designers, while the same engines with OVT and aircraft control systems with such engines were tested on the T-10M.

              And there is always parallelism, the launch of the current series and plans for modernization, both for implementation in production and for those already produced.
              1. Avior
                Avior 3 June 2021 08: 40
                0
                T-10M and T-10S went parallel practically
                and both go from T-10
                therefore, the multipurpose T-10m, in fact, is not a modernization of the Su-27 - it appeared at the level of prototypes,
          2. Hexenmeister
            Hexenmeister 3 June 2021 09: 21
            0
            Most likely zero, since the Su-27M began to be developed as soon as the serial Su-27 was approved, by the way, the first versions of it carried only 8 missiles, and not 10, as is now commonly believed for this type.
            The Su-27 always had ten points of suspension for V-V missiles, only a couple of points at the ends of the wings could be used for electronic warfare containers, and therefore there were only 8 points for missiles. To formally meet the requirements of the TZ, a "different" wing appeared on the T-10M, and there were already 12 points, 2 for electronic warfare and 10 for missiles. There was never a serial index for the Su-27M, but there was an attempt to assign serial numbers to the Su-10 and Su-35 ahead of time to two experimental T-37M aircraft in order to try to sell the aircraft abroad.
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 3 June 2021 14: 49
              0
              Su-37 copy of T-10M with w / n 711 and UHT engines. Lost in an accident in 2003.
              Su-35 - in the 90s, the index for the T-10M for export deliveries, which, however, did not take place, that is, all machines are prototypes. One copy, possibly, is still in flight, since it glowed during engine tests.
              Su-27M is the official type designation in the Air Force. Three serial vehicles were built by inertia in the early 3s, which were operated by the "Russian Knights", and then, due to their non-standard features, they were torn into what could be removed for conventional Su-90s and now they are only occasionally rolled out to the static display.

              The electronic warfare container can be removed.
              1. Hexenmeister
                Hexenmeister 3 June 2021 15: 56
                0
                Su-27M is the official type designation in the Air Force. Built 3 serial machines by inertia in the early 90s
                Formally, yes, the official designation, but how do they differ from the "first" Su-37? Three copies instead of one? Rather, as now in the only "serial" Su-57, their purpose is more "test" than a serial combatant.
      2. Hexenmeister
        Hexenmeister 31 May 2021 21: 00
        0
        Our regiment re-equipped with the Su-27 in 1986, and these were aircraft of the 15th series. In the 92nd, new boards of the 36th series arrived.
        Do you think the very first combatant Su-27s were of the first series? In addition, the tests continued and it was necessary to eliminate several lists of shortcomings, changes according to which were gradually introduced at the plant. And in fact, this was not modernization, but bringing the aircraft to the level specified in the terms of reference.
    3. Piramidon
      Piramidon 31 May 2021 10: 46
      0
      Quote: Avior
      What are going to upgrade?

      What was revealed during the test
      1. Avior
        Avior 31 May 2021 19: 40
        +3
        This is a revision, not an upgrade
  • knn54
    knn54 31 May 2021 06: 26
    -2
    Going out on alert is postponed.
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 31 May 2021 06: 30
    -5
    there is no normal series, but already modernization and this situation is not only with the su-57
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 31 May 2021 07: 52
      +1
      It's right. There are several films on YouTube about what is really happening in our military-industrial complex and it says directly that Russia has lost its ability to mass-produce samples of equipment and weapons. The backward production base, the lack of modern production equipment and tools, the lack of trained labor resources and specialists, the management sawed down for taking away money, and not for production, etc. - do not allow the production of modern weapons and equipment in the required volumes, in the presence of only semi-artisanal and handicraft production of single samples and small series ...
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 3 June 2021 08: 05
        0
        You know better from Kievisho, as we have here with the serial production of weapons.
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon 31 May 2021 10: 50
      -4
      Quote: Ryaruav
      there is no normal series, but already modernization and this situation is not only with the su-57

      As my squadron commander said - "Born to crawl, don't get confused on the runway." In order for non-wet cars to go into the series, the modernization begins after the first test flight. This is an ongoing process.
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion 3 June 2021 08: 04
      0
      In general, with everything, starting with the T-34. Because this is how the development works, in parallel with the launch into the series, a new version is being designed. Development, you know, is a long process, and at the final stages, more advanced solutions may already be known that are not implemented, since every change in those. the project must be approved and tested.
  • sustav75
    sustav75 31 May 2021 06: 37
    +6
    Info for fools, from fools!
  • Torins
    Torins 31 May 2021 06: 40
    +8
    You read the comments and you can immediately see those on the forum who do not know what equipment in the army is and how the modernization process generally takes place. laughing
  • Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich 31 May 2021 06: 45
    +3
    Dear commentators! Your colleague is writing to you. When I read your comments, I freak out, dear commenters!
    It is written in black and white:
    There was information about taking into development project aimed at modernizing the Su-57 fighter.

    How did you get it out of this: "what are going to modernize"; "going on alert is postponed" and other, I have no doubt, soon the following nonsense?
    They will make the ordered 76 pieces, and then, you see, the modernized ones will go.
    Maybe it's better to read more closely and think a little longer, and not pick your ass, eh, dear commentators?
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 31 May 2021 07: 24
      +4
      Now they will throw minuses at you. hi
      On my own I will add that modernization is bread for designers, technologists and others. They have to rack their brains to make the technique better in the future. And before the modernized version appears, it will take years. During this time, normal serial production will already be established.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 31 May 2021 07: 27
        +1
        Now they will throw minuses at you.

        smile And I put a plus ... for balance.
        Emotions or reason? ... What will prevail on the forum? what
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 31 May 2021 07: 29
          +3
          I am also a plus, but I see a person has a minus again, emotions take over.
          As if the forum is female or hostile.
  • Normal
    Normal 31 May 2021 06: 48
    -2
    The process is life. The result is death.
    Who needs the result (adoption and mass production)?
    Nobody. (Well, perhaps for manufacturers and users. - commanders, pilots, technicians. Well ... what a boring thing)
    But the process (endless modernization without real production) - allows you to master more and more new horizons ...
    development of the budget.
    But what is the name of the process without achieving a result?
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 31 May 2021 07: 27
      +5
      Retrofit and batch production must go together. There will be no sense in production if they drive out morally obsolete equipment.
      1. Normal
        Normal 31 May 2021 07: 56
        +1
        Quote: Herman 4223
        Retrofit and batch production must go together.

        Serial production has been established. Dozens of planes. A serial car went to the troops. I understand correctly?
        So that the technology does not become morally obsolete at the stage of endless testing of improvements and even modernizations, it is necessary to accelerate its production and entry into the troops.
        How was Stalin there? Improve? Yes. But so that production does not suffer and the amount of production does not decrease.
        We have been developing and testing new technology for decades. How can it not become morally obsolete in such a time?
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 31 May 2021 10: 17
          +2
          In the USSR, there was also a constant modernization of equipment, and without time to become one equipment for development, the next platform was already launched. For example, the mig-23 was put into production in '68, and in 1968 the development of a new machine began. Until the time the new modernized equipment goes into production, it will take years, this time the conveyor does not have to stand.
          1. VO3A
            VO3A 31 May 2021 13: 56
            -1
            Dig deeper! Every year in combat aviation units, a certain revision was carried out by a brigade of representatives of the manufacturer's plant! It was called a set of revisions with a certain number ... For example, on the Su-17M3, I found the 5th, 6th and 7th set of revisions ... After each revision, the first aircraft that underwent revision usually did not fully work later. On it these "hard workers" studied, so to speak ... They studied on a COMBAT AIRCRAFT in a combat regiment. And from this there were fewer and fewer normal aircraft in the regiment, plus their own military "testers"! What is more from such improvements, benefit or harm ?!
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Igor Tikhomirov
    Igor Tikhomirov 31 May 2021 06: 56
    0
    Empty chatter. I have somewhere lying around an advertising brochure of the mid-90s single-engine SU called S-57. It was positioned as a light version of the then version of the SU-35, developed in the late 80s. The matter did not go further than the defense of the proactive preliminary project. The same will happen now.
    1. VO3A
      VO3A 31 May 2021 14: 01
      -1
      Put on your glasses or wipe your eyes! This plane was called C54 / C55 / C56! It was developed for production ... By the way, they are going to revive it and it's high time ...
  • ODERVIT
    ODERVIT 31 May 2021 07: 02
    0
    At all times, based on the results of flight tests and operating experience in aviation units, modernization and revision programs were developed. However, there was no internet and everything went on as usual. wink
    1. Normal
      Normal 31 May 2021 07: 06
      +1
      Quote: ODERVIT
      and operating experience in aviation units
      1. ODERVIT
        ODERVIT 31 May 2021 07: 26
        -1
        Flight test ... wink
        1. Normal
          Normal 31 May 2021 07: 40
          +3
          Flight tests do not provide operational experience in aviation units.
          Flight tests are carried out on single prototypes of production and by pilots of exceptional qualifications, in contrast to the operation of serial machines by combat pilots.
          The conclusions from flight tests and operating experience can vary greatly.
          1. ODERVIT
            ODERVIT 31 May 2021 08: 20
            +1
            Thanks for the clarifications. wink
      2. Piramidon
        Piramidon 31 May 2021 10: 56
        -3
        Quote: Normal
        Quote: ODERVIT
        and operating experience in aviation units

        And why did you not cite the whole phrase, but pulled out only what is beneficial to you?
        based on flight test results and operating experience in aviation units
        1. Normal
          Normal 31 May 2021 12: 21
          +2
          Piramidonу

          I will answer your question.
          I didn’t pull out only what was beneficial to me (what is the benefit to me?), But focused on the fact that there was no operating experience in aviation units.
          Now you answer me.
          How long have we been on "you"?
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 31 May 2021 13: 05
            -4
            Quote: Normal
            operating experience in aviation units is just not there

            But there are test results. Why separate one from the other?
            How long have we been on "you"?

            Recently. From today.
            1. Normal
              Normal 31 May 2021 20: 07
              +1
              Quote: Piramidon
              But there are test results. Why separate one from the other?
              Then, that there is no other.
              Here one is, and the other is not.
              Are you really so alternatively gifted, or would you like to troll?

              Quote: Piramidon
              From today.

              From today.....
              you can go into the bright distance.
              I don’t feed trolls and don’t communicate with boors.
            2. Avior
              Avior 31 May 2021 20: 58
              +1
              Tests are carried out in relation to a specific aircraft specimen in a strictly predetermined amount.
              But different aircraft can behave differently, especially during operation and wear and tear.
              1. Piramidon
                Piramidon 31 May 2021 22: 12
                0
                If, during the tests of several copies, the same jambs appear, then they carry out general work on modernization on all aircraft.
                1. Avior
                  Avior 31 May 2021 23: 36
                  -1
                  And if they are not the same, then they also spend
                  1. Piramidon
                    Piramidon 1 June 2021 09: 08
                    0
                    Quote: Avior
                    And if they are not the same, then they also spend

                    If the jamb appears on one plane, and does not appear on the others, then the work is carried out only on one. This is already called simply troubleshooting and has nothing to do with modernization and improvements.
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 1 June 2021 09: 23
                      0
                      If on one, then the others are checked.
                      It can manifest itself on part of the aircraft, and not on one or all
                      1. Piramidon
                        Piramidon 1 June 2021 09: 32
                        0
                        What does verification have to do with the modernization in question? Have you decided to start trolling?
                      2. Avior
                        Avior 1 June 2021 10: 14
                        0
                        Do you read your posts yourself?
                        If a jamb appears on one plane, and does not appear on the rest, then the work is carried out only on one.

                        After that, all the rest will be checked - is it an accidental defect or has it manifested itself only on one side, but maybe on others? Until the suspension of all flights, until they figure it out.
                        Or it may appear on several at once, but not all of them. They also understand the reasons, and not just correct them.
                        So see?
                        hi
                      3. Piramidon
                        Piramidon 1 June 2021 10: 19
                        0
                        I don’t need to explain what I’ve been doing for almost half my life. What does modernization have to do with it? In such cases, an instruction comes from above and a CHECK is performed, but not an upgrade. And only if, as a result of checks, multiple similar jambs are found, a bulletin is issued on improvements.
                      4. Avior
                        Avior 1 June 2021 10: 22
                        0
                        Sorry, you should read your posts
                        If, during the tests of several copies, the same jambs appear, then they carry out general work on modernization on all aircraft.
  • Marachuh
    Marachuh 31 May 2021 07: 04
    +2
    Doing it right! Why produce a crude machine like the F35? It is better to immediately eliminate comments and refine them. Releasing already directly upgraded with 2 stage engine.
  • Babay Atasovich
    Babay Atasovich 31 May 2021 07: 13
    +3
    Bond infiltrated the USSR and stole the Yak-42 blueprints. I brought it. They built and received a steam locomotive on them !!! Collapse, Yeltsinization, specialists came to the Russian Federation and asked: "We exactly assembled according to the drawings, but we got a steam locomotive! What's the secret ??!" .. The head of the design bureau rummaged through the shelves, put a hefty box of documents and replies:
    "Look how many corrections, additions, modifications were made after !!!" laughing
  • Dikson
    Dikson 31 May 2021 07: 21
    +5
    ... And the next "news from the fields" .. - for the "leaders of production", holding the tonsils of the entire Mediterranean with the help of three Tu22 .. So .. The brave trinity has already successfully returned home. after a demonstration flight over the resorts of the Mediterranean Sea ... And thank God. I would only leave strategic aviation at a foreign airfield, through which Israeli missiles sometimes fly ..
    1. Runoway
      Runoway 31 May 2021 08: 00
      +2
      And the next "news from the fields"

      Well, yes, they scared the West with paper maps, which in turn confirms the need for modernization in "every corner".
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 31 May 2021 08: 02
    +1
    Upgrade or Upgrade? Now the people "procrastinate", mainly, the casuistry of words, and as a result, the true meaning of what is happening with the Su-57 is lost "behind the screen"! "What do you call a yacht, so it will float"? Maybe you shouldn't cling to "worn out" words and understand the correct meaning behind verbal forms? I also have stereotypes ... I think that technology is being modernized when it has served for a certain number of years ... a sufficient number of shortcomings have been revealed, new equipment and weapons have appeared, new materials and new requirements for efficiency and functionality of "devices" have appeared ... and when there is something to "modernize" - modernize! Currently, there is a process of KB-shnogo improvement ... or, if you prefer, a phased improvement! And then everything is natural! For example, an airplane must be taught to find targets, aim weapons at them, thereby performing combat missions ... And in the "presence" only a radar with PFAR and ammunition N-29! And I want a radar with AFAR and ammunition N-38! And what? Wait for AFAR and "super. Ammunition"? And not to work out the engine operating modes at different stages of the combat mission? Not to check the operation of the "bomb bay" by dropping "blanks" (dummies of future weapons)? Not to compare the reliability of pushbutton and slide switches? Or is it possible? But then AFAR and "super. Ammunition" appeared ... what is it? Modernization or planned improvement? So it turns out that there can be "talks" about modernization in the "press" and on page VO, which, in fact, is really ... planned improvement (improvement)!
  • CastroRuiz
    CastroRuiz 31 May 2021 13: 25
    0
    Taking into account the development time, it is quite normal that there will be modernization, e.z. inclusion of new technologies.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 31 May 2021 14: 35
    0
    The name was invented by the Su-57 M.
  • yfast
    yfast 31 May 2021 14: 43
    0
    e6 usars tejoM
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Outsider
    Outsider 31 May 2021 18: 24
    -1
    Quote: Avior
    And each aircraft in the squadron will have its own unique radar and fuselage shape? A very strange idea ...

    - The idea is a little moronic, but couch x-perds and not so produce! lol
  • yfast
    yfast 31 May 2021 18: 32
    0
    At whose expense is the banquet? 2 aircraft do not pay for the modernization in any way.
  • Outsider
    Outsider 31 May 2021 18: 34
    +1
    Quote: Thrifty
    Actually, there are only TWO 5th generation aircraft F22 and Su57 in the world! EVERYTHING! !! The rest, according to the mass of criteria, do not correspond to the 5 generation, and especially the Chinese ones, which do not even have the necessary engine!

    Quote: Rasul Aliyev
    Actually, there are only TWO 5th generation aircraft F22 and F35 in the world! EVERYTHING! !! The rest, according to the mass of criteria, do not correspond to the 5 generation, and especially the Chinese and Russian ones that do not even have the required engine!

    - Guys! Please remember: the word generation is written with "O"! The test word is "Koleno"!
    Since you have decided to "talk about high" ...
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 1 June 2021 14: 32
      0
      You don't know Russian yourself, the test word is "stake" lol , the knee can be pronounced through and you will not check anything.
  • Outsider
    Outsider 31 May 2021 19: 00
    +1
    Quote: VO3A
    There is one full-fledged aircraft of the fifth generation F35 in the world and only as part of the American network-centric system. Even the F35 aircraft of European countries that do not use or do not have access to the American system are not 5th generation aircraft ... These are aircraft with the capabilities, if you like signs, of the 5th generation aircraft ... The 5th generation aircraft only exists as part of a network-centric system, without this system it is not functional ... Even the F22 is being finalized to be able to fully function in this system ... All other aircraft are aircraft with the characteristics of a 5th generation aircraft ... The Korean aircraft is especially touching and already a 6th generation aircraft being developed in europe ... They do not even understand yet what it is all about ...

    - It seems that you do not understand it. Grabbed a fashionable combination of "network-centric systems" and drive them ... The peculiarity and advantage of the 5th generation aircraft is precisely their ability to work successfully in perfect isolation from the system! And this is their huge advantage over the 4th generation fighters, which outside the system TODAY really mean little.
    A 5th generation aircraft, such as the F-22 and F-35, is capable of carrying out reconnaissance of the target and striking it himself. He does not need AWACS aircraft, he is his own AWACS, he does not need RTR (radio technical reconnaissance) aircraft - he is his own RTR aircraft, he does not need electronic warfare aircraft (as a rule) - in the overwhelming majority of cases he is protected by stealth. For the most part, stealths need only refuelers ...
    1. Avior
      Avior 31 May 2021 20: 08
      -1
      Therefore, by the way, the lack of double versions is surprising.
      Whatever the electronics, for the purposes of intelligence and other things, a second person is needed
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 31 May 2021 20: 37
        0
        I think such a version will appear. First as a combat training, and then as a kind of analogue of the Su-30 in a new version. The Su-30 is selling very well, and many will lay eyes on such a machine. There is a prospect of sale, so there will be.
  • jaroff
    jaroff 31 May 2021 19: 19
    0
    To begin with, there are samples with the power plant KL1 and there are samples with KL2. Modernization is ongoing.
  • Outsider
    Outsider 1 June 2021 00: 59
    0
    -
    Quote: Avior
    Therefore, by the way, the lack of double versions is surprising.
    Whatever the electronics, for the purposes of intelligence and other things, a second person is needed

    - Or a very, very perfect computer ... smile
  • Outsider
    Outsider 1 June 2021 01: 38
    0
    Quote: Dikson
    ... And the next "news from the fields" .. - for the "leaders of production", holding the tonsils of the entire Mediterranean with the help of three Tu22 .. So .. The brave trinity has already successfully returned home. after a demonstration flight over the resorts of the Mediterranean Sea ... And thank God. I would only leave strategic aviation at a foreign airfield, through which Israeli missiles sometimes fly ..

    - Israeli missiles (as well as bombs) do not touch those who are not needed ... lol
  • Outsider
    Outsider 1 June 2021 01: 44
    +1
    Quote: Snail N9
    Empty. Prototypes were also type of upgradeable prototype variants. Now called serial 1! (One! Karl!) The plane is already being upgraded. Mine doesn't even know what to say ... recourse

    - To say the only thing: the plane is extremely unsuccessful, it did not lie close to the 5th generation, to rivet it in a series of 70+ copies is a malicious squandering of the people's money. Those who need to know this and therefore are in no hurry to launch it in a large series.... R&D will continue on prototypes as the basis for preparation for the creation of a truly correct stealth fighter.
    And the Su-57 - well, well, "the first pancake is lumpy." Therefore, it is absolutely correct that it will be modernized, modernized, studied, trained - and with a delay of 40 years they will eventually create something similar to the F-22 ...
    And the F-22 itself will slowly retire by that time - gradually, not immediately, and will also be gradually replaced by the NGAD aircraft - Next Generation Air Dominance ...
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 1 June 2021 14: 29
      0
      Where did this infa come from, I'll prove it to the barrel.
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 4 June 2021 15: 22
      0
      Blok-35 has already been done on F5 .... there is nothing to be surprised at. I would simultaneously upgrade the Su35S in the same way
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 1 June 2021 14: 27
    0
    And what Manturov has on his pocket in the process of modernization, maybe who knows?
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 3 June 2021 07: 50
    0
    So what? As soon as the technique is put into service, the development of a more advanced version immediately begins. The same Su-27M took off for the first time by EMNIP in 1988, when the base Su-27 had not yet been accepted into service and had been produced for only 3 years.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 4 June 2021 15: 20
    0
    They wrote that the screens in the cockpit will be changed to a widescreen "pier" ...
  • AC130 Ganship
    AC130 Ganship 4 June 2021 15: 52
    0
    It is still not clear what exactly the "heel" of this car is and how it differs fundamentally from 4+ or 4 ++. Engines, avionics, weaponry, everything is the same
  • yfast
    yfast 5 June 2021 08: 32
    0
    Quote: DMi

    And for the Russian Federation, production rates of more than 10-15 per year are simply not needed.
    In fact, it turns out that the United States will have the same amount by that time) F22 will be written off completely. Most of the F 35 will be either decommissioned or not operational.

    And we will win without taking the sword out of its scabbard ...