The head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade announced the development of a project for the modernization of the 5th generation fighter Su-57

There was information about the adoption in the development of a project aimed at modernizing the Su-57 fighter. According to the latest data, a project is being developed to modernize a fifth-generation aircraft by the Military-Industrial Commission in conjunction with relevant departments.

I shared this kind of information with the audience. TC "Russia 1" Denis Manturov, Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation.

The minister stressed that the fifth generation fighter has just begun to appear in the armament of the Russian Aerospace Forces, and "we are already thinking, preparing (for modernization), since this is a constant process."

Denis Manturov on the air of the program “Moscow. Kremlin. Putin "did not specify. At the same time, it should be noted that not so long ago in the media there was information about the possibility of arming a new generation fighter with hypersonic missile weapons, as well as the latest systems of interaction with drums drones. Previously, the Su-57 has already performed test flights in tandem with the Okhotnik heavy strike UAV.

It is planned that the joint actions of the fighter and drone will make it possible to effectively overcome enemy air defenses and achieve targets when performing operations "at the forefront".

The Su-57 is one of four 5th generation fighters in service in the world. In addition to the Su-57, these are the American F-22 and F-35, as well as the Chinese J-20.

Comments

[The leader of the Redskins]

What already?!!!
Let us accept at least one squadron and form at least one squadron!

[carstorm 11]

Modernization is a process that cannot be stopped. Improvements and additions will be constantly. The usual thing.

[volodimer]

For example, they are developing a new radar for an aircraft and it has different dimensions. This means that its installation requires a slight change in the configuration of the nose and finalizing the fairing in order to maintain stealth. Here comes the upgrade. And for this you should not wait for the formation of a squadron.

[Avior]

And each aircraft in the squadron will have its own unique radar and fuselage shape? A very strange idea ...

[carstorm 11]

What for? Free architecture allows after the previous models to finish up to the level of improved ones? Is not it so?

[Avior]

Free fuselage architecture

[volodimer]

And there are few weapons in our country and in the world, which later underwent modernization "to the level of ..." Or do you propose not to work for the future until we have created "a sufficient number of uniform samples." If there is already something that can be used to improve the Su-57, then we must try to implement it. And in particular, precisely because there are still few of them. In order to then put on stream what will be even better. As long as 4 ++ holds the sky securely, this can be allowed.

[Barberry25]

well, as it were, radars are made in rigidly specified sizes, and any replacement is essentially an upgrade ..

[alex neym_2]

One does not interfere with the other, everything goes along the path of improvement - otherwise it is impossible, you will lose the pace and time.

[Avior]

Even as a hindrance, unification was not just invented. Each type of radar requires its own trained specialists, the mismatch of the fuselages requires keeping a stock of radars of different types for replacement - hell is just for technical personnel

[volodimer]

Sergey, I'm talking about the radar and the fairing dimensions purely for example. And the fact that he is really alone ... This is sadness. Of course, let them build more, even in this version. But if there is something to improve, with the same hypersonic missiles, we need to prepare for this. It is possible that after the 10th aircraft there will be a modification with changes that are pleasant for us and very unpleasant for the enemy.

[Avior]

I think there should be at least a regiment to collect the necessary information
Different nuances appear on different copies

[volodimer]

So I do not argue. But if there is already something that is going to be added / improved, then it should be done. If there are only 10 instead of 8 in the current configuration, but 2 more in the modernized configuration, this is acceptable. In my opinion.
While the Amer. Are hammering with the F-35 and are going to write off the F-22, we have a margin of time to rework the Su-57. But most importantly, to prepare for serial production.
While this is closer to the piece.

[Cosm22]

One does not interfere with the other, it is.
But what prevents the media from being more precise in their wording?
When an inexperienced reader reads expressions like "the fighter began to appear in service with the Russian Aerospace Forces" or "The Su-57 is one of four fighters belonging to the 5th generation and in service in the world", he may get the impression that these fighters in the troops of the Russian Federation is clearly more than the available ONE copy. Which are already preparing to modernize.
Or are there already more items in the troops? Did I miss something?

[ohka]

It's like with the roads - why do things well right away, then the road workers will be left without work and without money.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: carstorm 11

Modernization is a process that cannot be stopped. Improvements and additions will be constantly. The usual thing.

So I'm wondering why submarines in the United States have been built in sub-series (blocks) for decades. Will they build several submarines and immediately develop a new project (generation)? Are we so far behind the West?

[volodimer]

You yourself have answered your own question. Virginia BlockI and BlockIV there only the body is the same, and the filling is completely different, count 4 different projects.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: volodimer

You yourself have answered your own question. Virginia BlockI and BlockIV there only the body is the same, and the filling is completely different, count 4 different projects.

So what prevents us at least from touching the body and changing only the filling? They would at least partially save time and money in the construction of new submarines.

[volodimer]

So we have a variety only due to the fact that Soviet boats are still serving, and the projects on which new ones are being built are on one hand. So it is possible that this principle will prevail.
https://topwar.ru/58149-podvodnye-lodki-vmf-rossii.html

[Barberry25]

1) even within the series, the Americans carry out modernization in the event of inconsistencies. 2) no one is developing a "new project" ... The experience is corny taken into account, the technical specification is corrected to improve / reduce the cost of the project .. Or do you think it is necessary to produce a deteriorated version with childhood diseases?

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Barberry25

Or do you think it is necessary to produce a degraded version with childhood diseases?

If there are no obvious shortcomings that require immediate correction, then there is no need to climb anywhere, you need to do as the Americans do, they carry out R&D, they accumulate updates until the efficiency / effectiveness of new design solutions significantly increases and they are introduced in the next block, and we have every innovation strive to implement faster. It is good that the Ministry of Defense came to its senses with Borey-B and rejected the modernization project due to the inconsistency of the cost / efficiency criterion. And so still, the terms have moved again, since the constant changes in the project shift the deadlines very much.

[Barberry25]

oh yeah .. we needed to build ordinary Boreas ... instead of Borey-A .. "brilliant" solution .. you probably have a lot of money once you want to buy 10 not very successful submarines, then to write them off and buy another 10 nuclear submarines , in which they solved the problem of the first ... The Americans in the same way make changes in the course of the series and individual ships, the difference is that the information is usually in English and on specialized forums and until no one is born to translate into Russian, then publish it on several blogs information does not pop up on Topvar ...

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Barberry25

oh yeah .. we needed to build ordinary Boreas ... instead of Borey-A .. "brilliant"

No, Borey-A is very different from the original Borey, in fact, a new body (contours), etc. I spoke about Borey B.

Quote: Barberry25

You probably have a lot of money, once you want to buy 10 not very successful submarines, so that later you can write them off and buy another 10 submarines, in which the problem of the first ones was solved ... The Americans make changes in the course of series and individual ships in the same way, the difference is the fact that the information is usually in English and on specialized forums and until no one is born to translate into Russian, then the information does not pop up on Topvar on several blogs ...

The Americans have been building a submarine for decades in blocks, then there is an improved project and then a completely new submarine. And we want to build Ash M's 9 submarines, and then a new project Husky, which will be built for ten years, and maybe longer. The fact is that in the United States, the same Virginias of the first block were modern at the time of construction, it was only then, over time, technologies developed and new technical solutions appeared - the same new horseshoe-shaped HAC instead of a spherical one. Who knows, maybe this new SAC appeared after the first serial Virginia, but they did not immediately implement it so as not to shift the date for the adoption of submarines. And we would immediately begin to implement it and this would shift the adoption of the submarine by 2-3 years. That is, a new submarine would not have left the stocks for several years.

[Barberry25]

and where did you write about Borei-B? you wrote about "we didn't need to touch the hulls", so it was about the first Boreys. About Ash and Husky .. NOBODY from MO did not say and does not say that Ash will be only 9 ... This is the current order for 9 boats, just Serie..Husky is a development for the future, taking into account the work, this is about 12-15 years, when the actual question of "we need a new nuclear submarine" will already be raised. and not suddenly "..

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Barberry25

you wrote about "we didn't need to touch the hulls", so it was about the first Boreas.

The first Borei were built from what was, they used the backlog of the hulls of the Shchuka-B and Anthei submarines. The same with the first Ash, which was built since 1993. The first submarine Borey Yuri Dolgoruky began to build back in 1996, naturally, during this time, progress has stepped far forward.

[Barberry25]

but following your logic, it was necessary to build on the basis of what was available .. that there is a mistake ... yes, they refused from B-shek, because there is a large amount of R&D and the price increase is significant, but I think that then they will slobber money for developing the base as a whole for either modernization or a next-generation project ... In fact, from our new projects, the series is almost never changed radically ... the only example: corvettes, but even there, in fact, we are talking about changing either strike or defensive weapons ..

[Real Pilot]

We are working on bugs. And this is correct, natural and wise. Why build a lot of raw machines? The Su-35 can also be called a highly modernized Su-27, but these are aircraft of different capabilities for a long time.

The Americans, for example, want to write off the first series of F-35s. Precisely because of the rush with the initial production of a non-ready aircraft.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: carstorm 11

Modernization is a process that cannot be stopped. Improvements and additions will be constantly. The usual thing.

And you know, we believe the words of the minister, with the original education - a sociologist. It is sociologists who are important in this process, which can neither be stopped nor predicted where it may lead.
===========
This "prophet" did not need to drink cold vodka in the cold with bad boys ...

[Thrifty]

Actually, there are only TWO 5th generation aircraft F22 and Su57 in the world! EVERYTHING! !! The rest, according to the mass of criteria, do not correspond to the 5 generation, and especially the Chinese ones, which do not even have the necessary engine!

[DMi]

F35 even the American army is not needed. The production line is stopped. Not accepted for service. A number of politicians called this program a failure. But fanatics who think according to already outdated training manuals still fall for the periphery of American influence.

[Rageee]

F35 even the American army is not needed

here they are the first victims of propaganda)

[SovAr238A]

Quote: DMi

F35 even the American army is not needed. The production line is stopped. Not accepted for service. A number of politicians called this program a failure. But fanatics who think according to already outdated training manuals still fall for the periphery of American influence.

Where do you stock up on such heresy?
which line is stopped?
Airplanes are made at a rate of 30 pieces per month !!!!
The production plan for the Su-57 in 76 units is designed for 10 years - compare the difference in production rates.

[DMi]

On December 31, 2020 Bloomberg agency published unusual news:

"The Pentagon has ruled to end full-scale production of Lockheed Martin Corp.'s F-35s indefinitely as officials still cannot say when the fighter will be ready for combat tests, which have been repeatedly postponed since 2017."


Then look for yourself.

And for the Russian Federation, production rates of more than 10-15 per year are simply not needed. The Ministry of Defense initially planned to adopt no more than 200 fifth-generation fighters.
In fact, it turns out that the United States will have the same amount by that time) F22 will be written off completely. Most of the F 35 will be either decommissioned or not operational.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: DMi

On December 31, 2020 Bloomberg agency published unusual news:

"The Pentagon has ruled to end full-scale production of Lockheed Martin Corp.'s F-35s indefinitely as officials still cannot say when the fighter will be ready for combat tests, which have been repeatedly postponed since 2017."


Then look for yourself.

And for the Russian Federation, production rates of more than 10-15 per year are simply not needed. The Ministry of Defense initially planned to adopt no more than 200 fifth-generation fighters.
In fact, it turns out that the United States will have the same amount by that time) F22 will be written off completely. Most of the F 35 will be either decommissioned or not operational.

Now for more reliable news.
Not taken out of context, but correct.
On December 31, 2020, Bloomberg reported that the US Department of Defense had decided to postpone full-scale production of fifth-generation F-35 fighters for an indefinite period. The fact is that combat tests of this vehicle have not yet been carried out. What is interesting: the dates of their holding are constantly postponed from 2017, that is, for four years.
The next test date was set for December 2020, but again they did not take place. The new date is planned to be determined after an independent technical examination. The month-long combat test is expected to take place between mid-to-late 2021. Prior to the Pentagon's decision to begin full-scale production of the F-35, Lockheed Martin will produce these combat vehicles "at low levels at the planned pace."

I am translating into Russian.
Lockheed Martin - does not have the right to independently change the speed of the assembly line.
The Department of Defense has complete control over the assembly line.
And it is it that gives or does not give the go-ahead "to increase the speed of the conveyor and the rate of production of finished aircraft."
In this case, Bloomberg's news suggests that the US Department of Defense's annual assembly line test, Lockheed Martin, has failed. And it will continue to assemble the aircraft at the standard planned pace.
And they wanted to double the assembly volume than it was previously planned !!!

Details: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3175169.html
Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to REGNUM.


8 April 2021 to 10: 31
At the Lockheed Martin facility in Fort Worth, Texas, the first fifth-generation F-35A fighter was rolled out and handed over to the Danish Air Force.

[DMi]

Those. the argument that American politicians and generals themselves are increasingly calling the F35 program a failure is technically bypassed) well, ok. This is also quite eloquent)

And regarding the production of this miracle, there is also such a text on Regnum.


Thus, the fate of the Joint Strike Fighter program will be decided in the next 2-3 years. It is very likely that purchases of F-35 fighters for the US Armed Forces will be phased out.

Despite the fact that Lockheed Martin has a strong lobby on Capitol Hill, lobbying for an ineffective and expensive fighter jet will not work indefinitely, as the task of maintaining US global dominance remains on the agenda. And if we talk about military dominance, then for the United States it starts with gaining air superiority. And for this we need another - reliable and inexpensive to operate - a fighter with a combat potential corresponding to the task.

At the same time, one must understand that the fate of the F-35 will largely depend on the actual results of the Next-Generation Air Dominance program. Here, as in any business, cadres are everything. NGAD will have a better chance of success if the new US administration allows Will Roper, who retired on January 19, 2021, to continue serving in the US Air Force. So, to begin with, we will monitor personnel issues.

Of course, Lockheed Martin will retain a share of the market and continue to supply these combat vehicles to the US allies. The allies will buy them as a tribute for military and political patronage from Washington. In Europe alone, the company plans to deliver up to 500 F-35 fighters by 2030.



Details: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3175169.html
Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to REGNUM.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: DMi

Those. the argument that American politicians and generals themselves are increasingly calling the F35 program a failure is technically bypassed) well, ok. This is also quite eloquent)

I, from my couch, do not consider the F-35 program to be a failure.
The queue for planes for 10 years ahead.
All new non-US vassal countries would like to buy these aircraft, but the delivery time is longer than 7-10 years.
For, first of all, deliveries go to the program participants.
The same Denmark, although it received its first plane, will be in the USA for another 3 years, and Danish pilots will learn to fly on it.
And only in 2023 - he will fly to Denmark. With the rest released by this time for Denmark.
Therefore, they are taking now that Greece, Croatia, Rafali from the French Air Force. But here and now.

And the same Lockheed Martin is trying to double the speed of the conveyor in order to have time to saturate the market, since such delivery times lead to the fact that many countries that have exhausted the resource of their aircraft have nothing to fly. And to wait another 10 years without a combat-ready air force is nonsense ...

And yes. Regnum for me is a source of stupid information.
Not an indicative resource.

And you just bypassed the pace of production of the Su-57 and F-35 - for you this is also not an argument that you eloquently and skillfully bypassed ...

[DMi]

Read carefully. I answered about the rate of production. 10-15 SS 57 per year is the optimal pace. More is simple and unnecessary. The Russian army does not need 3200 fifth-generation aircraft as planned by the United States. And in the future there will be no need to rack your brains than to load a bloated production, designed for hundreds of units annually.

[Rasul Aliyev]

The Russian army needs 3200 5th generation airplanes but cannot afford it financially. And so I ordered only 70 airplanes like this.

[DMi]

Suddenly. Even the USA cannot afford 3200 fighters of the 5th generation)) It really came to them only now. When the budget is bursting and crumbling and is not enough for anything. But the plans are still Napoleonic. Just by inertia.

[Avior]

They have more than half a thousand aircraft not considered full-scale production.

[voyaka uh]

"Production line stopped" ///
---
You have not figured it out.
The line operates 24 X 7 at full capacity.
For the US Air Force, 70 aircraft purchased per year is an average batch.
There is no permission for large series - purchases of 200-300 cars at a time
three-year lots.

[VO3A]

There is one full-fledged aircraft of the fifth generation F35 in the world and only as part of the American network-centric system. Even the F35 aircraft of European countries that do not use or do not have access to the American system are not 5th generation aircraft ... These are aircraft with the capabilities, if you like signs, of the 5th generation aircraft ... The 5th generation aircraft only exists as part of a network-centric system, without this system it is not functional ... Even the F22 is being finalized to be able to fully function in this system ... All other aircraft are aircraft with the characteristics of a 5th generation aircraft ... The Korean aircraft is especially touching and already a 6th generation aircraft being developed in europe ... They do not even understand yet what it is all about ...

[Rageee]

The main feature of the 5th generation aircraft is a dramatic decrease in the aircraft's visibility in the radar and infrared ranges, and in this regard, the Su-57 has not gone far from the Su-27 line ... Plus, the 2nd stage engine is still not ready, which should provide drying cruising supersonic without afterburner. And let's not forget that these aircraft are not yet in combat units ..

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Let us accept at least one squadron and form at least one squadron!

"Do you love children? No ... but the PROCESS itself ... !!" And why are you in a hurry? As the wisdom of the General Staff says: "Garbage is war! The main thing is maneuvers!"

[Piramidon]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

What already?!!!
Let us accept at least one squadron and form at least one squadron!

Modernization is carried out continuously from the first test flight to the end of the service life. What does the adoption have to do with it?

[The leader of the Redskins]

If I am not mistaken, then before being put into service there is debugging... Which allows even a design change.
But after the adoption and the beginning of the series, it goes modernization.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

If I am not mistaken, then before the adoption of the armament is fine-tuning

Adjustment, revision, design changes ... all this is included in the concept of modernization.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Piramidon

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

What already?!!!
Let us accept at least one squadron and form at least one squadron!

Modernization is carried out continuously from the first test flight to the end of the service life. What does the adoption have to do with it?

Despite the fact that without the accumulation of a large number of flight hours - by ordinary combat pilots - there will be no full-scale information to understand the level of required improvements and modernization ...

[Piramidon]

Quote: SovAr238A

Despite the fact that without the accumulation of a large number of flight hours - by ordinary combat pilots - there will be no full-scale information to understand the level of required improvements and modernization ...

I will repeat it again. Modernization is a constant process and it is done as needed, regardless of how long the product has been in operation. I myself was a witness when a plane from the factory came to the regiment and a brigade of its representatives came next to make improvements on this plane.

[venik]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

What already?!!!
Let us accept at least one squadron and form at least one squadron!

=========
And what's the big deal? Once (it was a long time ago, back in the days of the USSR!), The "product" was just passing the test, and we already New sensors dragged to the landfill! It's funny, but there he ran into his own Parent (he himself already had his own family and lived separately from his parents). Dad "* the leading design engineer of the" theme ") then he was terribly indignant: Still the sensors of the" 1st stage "did not have time to start the series, and you have already dragged the next ones !?
Nothing! By the way, it was with the "modified" sensors that the "product" went into series!

[Avior]

information about the acceptance into the development of a project aimed at modernizing the Su-57 fighter

What kind of modernization, only one piece of it was made ?!
What are going to upgrade?
Or will the modernization be instead of the production of the Su-57?
The further, the stranger: ((
Are you planning to modernize the fittings too?

[Lech from Android.]

10 flight prototypes made; 3 prototypes for ground testing; 1 serial.

[Normal]

Quote: Lech from Android.

1 serial.

And a colossal operating experience has already been accumulated, on the basis of which the modernization will be carried out.

[Lech from Android.]

colossal operating experience has been accumulated, on the basis of which the modernization will be carried out.

Dont clear will we upgrade this 1 production aircraft?
By and large, the SU-57 is an expensive vehicle for the war, and there will be no rush to produce it upstairs ... it makes no sense.
The SU-35 is now more needed for day-to-day flights ... than the SU-57 for which it is still necessary to create an accompanying service and undergo technical training.
How much does an hour of flight on the SU-57 and SU-Z5 cost now and compare what is more needed for the Air Force.

[Normal]

Quote: Lech from Android.

will we upgrade this 1 production aircraft?

That was sarcasm.

Quote: Lech from Android.

it is also necessary to create an accompanying service and undergo training of the technical staff.

By itself. But how to do it without the object of service and the subject of training of the technical staff.

[mark1]

Quote: Lech from Android.

The SU-57 is an expensive vehicle for the war and there will be no rush to build it upstairs ... there is no point.

How does it make no sense? And "if TOMORROW is a war .."?

[Lech from Android.]

And "if TOMORROW is a war .."?

If tomorrow there will be a war at war, there will be massive equipment (like the T-34) that can be created quickly and in the required quantity.
For the production of the SU-57, the entire industry needs to be rebuilt ... you can't just stamp large quantities of components for it.
Therefore, such a small number of SU-57s ordered for the Russian armed forces.

[mark1]

Quote: Lech from Android.

If tomorrow there will be a war at war, there will be massive equipment (like the T-34) that can be created quickly and in the required quantity.

Duck, after all, it still needs to be created and brought up and mastered (distributed to private factories!) It is necessary to build factories * preferably underground and terribly classified with secret workers), because there will be no WWII with the rear "Everything for the front .." - the rear will practically be fit the forefront. In general, what we do before the war, we will fight on that. If we break the enemy well in the early days and with modern technology, then it will be easier to follow through on the mob later. stocks.

[Lech from Android.]

If we break the enemy well in the early days and with modern technology, then it will be easier to follow through on the mob later. stocks.

I envy your optimism ... historically, the enemy first breaks in to us ... and then, having gathered strength through the incredible tension of our people, we break into the enemy ... we correct the jambs of the top leadership, so to speak.

[mark1]

Quote: Lech from Android.

I envy your optimism

And I envy yours ... After they break us in, there will be nothing to strain and the T-34 will have nothing to build on, the war will be fought with the resources that were stored before.
And according to your scenario, revenge can be very long (300-500 years), while running through the forests we will not exhaust everyone (or they will die themselves)

[Errr]

Quote: mark1

And "if TOMORROW is a war .."?

Then the day after tomorrow there will be deathly silence, because to butt with Russia is the same as in nettles ... to dangle.

[mark1]

A saber in your hands, my friend, and a hot horse ... lead us, father, your children ...

[Errr]

The checker will not help here, but the Strategic Missile Forces will fulfill their function in full at a critical moment of confrontation.

[For example]

Quote: Lech from Android.

How much does an hour of flight on the SU-57 and SU-Z5 cost now and compare what is more needed for the Air Force.

ZP pilots get one hell, which is 35, which is 57 (I'm talking about combat pilots)
Techies also receive salaries according to the staffing table.
The planes eat diesel fuel in the same quantity because the engine is the same.
Pilots are trained within the same walls.
The airfield is the same.
The infrastructure is the same.


Why should the flight hour be different?
Essentially write the math of your statements.

They got the clever guys who got it into their heads that everything can be measured with dough.

It is your gang that translates the Victory Parade into loot.

[Lech from Android.]

This is your gang evaluating the Victory Parade.

Spring aggravation or what?
War is primarily about the economy ... and not just idle talk.
How much can you deliver to deliver combat-ready equipment in a short period of time, equip it with everything you need, make up for combat and non-combat losses?
All these things begin to creep out at a critical moment ... when there is an urgent need to fill the troops with the necessary equipment.

[Snail N9]

Empty. Prototypes were also type of upgradeable prototype variants. Now called serial 1! (One! Karl!) The plane is already being upgraded. Mine doesn't even know what to say ...

[For example]

Quote: Snail N9

War is primarily about the economy ... and not just idle talk.

Exactly.

You, senor, blah blah blah again.

You say that the cost of a flight hour for the SU-57 and SU-35 is so different that it is not possible to operate the SU-57 at the moment.

Can you provide mathematics?

Otherwise, it is with you

Quote: Lech from Android.

empty chatter of the tongue.

[Errr]

Quote: Snail N9

Prototypes were also type of upgradeable prototype variants. Now called serial 1! (One! Karl!) The plane is already being upgraded. Mine doesn't even know what to say ...

The train goes on the same tracks. Nothing new here. Only now I can not quite clearly remember now at what station (in what year) the conductors (sometimes even led by the machinist) began to regularly jump out literally at every stop with a joyful cry: "Hurray! We, gentlemen-comrades, are happy We arrived (lived) to this beautiful [another] stopping point! God favors us! Thank God! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray-ah-ah! "

[Runoway]

The planes eat diesel fuel in the same

Wow! That I missed the release of a diesel aircraft engine

[Normal]

Quote: Runoway

I missed the release of a diesel aircraft engine

Exactly. Blinked.
Personally.
Aviation diesel engine AN-1A and its development into M-30 and M-40. Still 30s
https://topwar.ru/173099-aviacionnyj-dizel-tupikovaja-vetv-ili.html
But the appearance jet diesel aircraft engine on the Su-57, we all missed. Together.
Woe to us.

[Andylw]

any spare part for su57 is unique and costs a lot of money, wait for it in case of a breakdown until the second coming
and for conscientious dryers su27 / 30/35 there is always the possibility of cannibalization

[Runoway]

The SU-35 is now more needed for day-to-day flights ... than the SU-57

And what is the SU-57 in essence at the moment ?! The same Su-35 + new avionics + new glider, (and the new avionics are so-so , you can refine it endlessly, I will not reveal all the secrets, I will just hint at the mi28 radar, which was done 15 years ago, but they taught how to work flawlessly quite recently, and if one transmitter completes the radius, it will be + 5000m )
If the budget had been larger, then it would have been stamped as an F-35 in the amount of ~ 100 units, and now it would be modernized, it would not hurt the ears.
But in fact, with our "frantic" speed of product release, new requirements of the problem come out earlier and more, and before stamping, you need to decide on the "complete image and package"

[Normal]

Quote: Runoway

And what is the SU-57 in essence at the moment ?! The same Su-35 + new avionics +new glider,

And what is the T-54? The same T-34 + new hull, turret, cannon, chassis and layout.

[EvilLion]

The new hull was obtained on the T-44 by a significant re-arrangement of the MTO, which made it possible to reduce its height by 300 mm, raising the level of armor of the T-44's forehead to prohibitive by the standards of World War II, and the tower there was shifted to the center.

[DMi]

And where can you find out how much an hour of flight SU 57 costs?

[VO3A]

The SU-35 is now more needed for day-to-day flights ... than the SU-57

And here you are 100% right !!! The Su-57 is still not ready to use, there are no network-centric systems in which it can work, there are no adopted tactics and well-tested interaction ... One invention with the Hunter is not in the business ... There, the Su-30 should be used, and not the Su-57, you can see it immediately!

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Lech from Android.

10 flight prototypes made; 3 prototypes for ground testing; 1 serial.

Our plant has not yet received all the equipment for the production of the Su-57, but people think that everything is fine.

Moscow. January 19. INTERFAX-AVN - The modernization of the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft plant (KnAAZ) for serial production of Su-57 fighters will be completed by 2024, said the deputy general director of "Sukhoi" - director of KnAAZ Alexander Pekarsh.
"Under the program of rearmament for a fifth-generation aircraft, all the planned facilities should be commissioned by 2024," Pekarsh said in an interview with the factory newspaper Krylya Sovetov.
According to him, the plant is systematically equipping the assembly and assembly shops with additional stands and equipment for assembly, including unique swivel slipways designed specifically for the construction of the Su-57.

[kit88]

Avior, that you muddy the waters. Aircraft are constantly being improved.
Take the Su-27 for example. The first flight, as you remember, was 1977.
Our regiment re-equipped with the Su-27 in 1986, and these were aircraft of the 15th series. In the 92nd, new boards of the 36th series arrived.
The equipment changed, but there was no technical nightmare.
There are nuances - a young summer will climb onto an old board, but cannot open the lantern - there is no handle in place! A joke of humor.
And it doesn't matter that there is only one Su-57 in the Air Force, how much time has passed since the day of development, the equipment is being improved, improved, instead of the obsolete one is being replaced by a modern one ...

[Avior]

How many Su-27s entered the army before the modernization began?
One?

[EvilLion]

Most likely zero, since the Su-27M began to be developed as soon as the serial Su-27 was approved, by the way, the first versions of it carried only 8 missiles, and not 10, as is now commonly believed for this type.

According to the MiG-29, 2 Soviet versions 9-12 and 9-13 are officially allocated, although the MiG-29S (9-13S) is also Soviet, just then, with the collapse of the Union, only 16 of them managed to be built by inertia in 1992-93.

[Avior]

With the union, they simply made different versions in parallel. T-10M and T-10S
and for the Su-27m the result is so-so - 3 aircraft.

[EvilLion]

The production of the Su-27M is already the 90s, and no questions for the designers, while the same engines with OVT and aircraft control systems with such engines were tested on the T-10M.

And there is always parallelism, the launch of the current series and plans for modernization, both for implementation in production and for those already produced.

[Avior]

T-10M and T-10S went parallel practically
and both go from T-10
therefore, the multipurpose T-10m, in fact, is not a modernization of the Su-27 - it appeared at the level of prototypes,

[Hexenmeister]

Most likely zero, since the Su-27M began to be developed as soon as the serial Su-27 was approved, by the way, the first versions of it carried only 8 missiles, and not 10, as is now commonly believed for this type.

The Su-27 always had ten points of suspension for V-V missiles, only a couple of points at the ends of the wings could be used for electronic warfare containers, and therefore there were only 8 points for missiles. To formally meet the requirements of the TZ, a "different" wing appeared on the T-10M, and there were already 12 points, 2 for electronic warfare and 10 for missiles. There was never a serial index for the Su-27M, but there was an attempt to assign serial numbers to the Su-10 and Su-35 ahead of time to two experimental T-37M aircraft in order to try to sell the aircraft abroad.

[EvilLion]

Su-37 copy of T-10M with w / n 711 and UHT engines. Lost in an accident in 2003.
Su-35 - in the 90s, the index for the T-10M for export deliveries, which, however, did not take place, that is, all machines are prototypes. One copy, possibly, is still in flight, since it glowed during engine tests.
Su-27M is the official type designation in the Air Force. Three serial vehicles were built by inertia in the early 3s, which were operated by the "Russian Knights", and then, due to their non-standard features, they were torn into what could be removed for conventional Su-90s and now they are only occasionally rolled out to the static display.

The electronic warfare container can be removed.

[Hexenmeister]

Su-27M is the official type designation in the Air Force. Built 3 serial machines by inertia in the early 90s

Formally, yes, the official designation, but how do they differ from the "first" Su-37? Three copies instead of one? Rather, as now in the only "serial" Su-57, their purpose is more "test" than a serial combatant.

[Hexenmeister]

Our regiment re-equipped with the Su-27 in 1986, and these were aircraft of the 15th series. In the 92nd, new boards of the 36th series arrived.

Do you think the very first combatant Su-27s were of the first series? In addition, the tests continued and it was necessary to eliminate several lists of shortcomings, changes according to which were gradually introduced at the plant. And in fact, this was not modernization, but bringing the aircraft to the level specified in the terms of reference.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Avior

What are going to upgrade?

What was revealed during the test

[Avior]

This is a revision, not an upgrade

[knn54]

Going out on alert is postponed.

[Ryaruav]

there is no normal series, but already modernization and this situation is not only with the su-57

[Snail N9]

It's right. There are several films on YouTube about what is really happening in our military-industrial complex and it says directly that Russia has lost its ability to mass-produce samples of equipment and weapons. The backward production base, the lack of modern production equipment and tools, the lack of trained labor resources and specialists, the management sawed down for taking away money, and not for production, etc. - do not allow the production of modern weapons and equipment in the required volumes, in the presence of only semi-artisanal and handicraft production of single samples and small series ...

[EvilLion]

You know better from Kievisho, as we have here with the serial production of weapons.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Ryaruav

there is no normal series, but already modernization and this situation is not only with the su-57

As my squadron commander said - "Born to crawl, don't get confused on the runway." In order for non-wet cars to go into the series, the modernization begins after the first test flight. This is an ongoing process.

[EvilLion]

In general, with everything, starting with the T-34. Because this is how the development works, in parallel with the launch into the series, a new version is being designed. Development, you know, is a long process, and at the final stages, more advanced solutions may already be known that are not implemented, since every change in those. the project must be approved and tested.

[sustav75]

Info for fools, from fools!

[Torins]

You read the comments and you can immediately see those on the forum who do not know what equipment in the army is and how the modernization process generally takes place.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Dear commentators! Your colleague is writing to you. When I read your comments, I freak out, dear commenters!
It is written in black and white:

There was information about taking into development project aimed at modernizing the Su-57 fighter.

How did you get it out of this: "what are going to modernize"; "going on alert is postponed" and other, I have no doubt, soon the following nonsense?
They will make the ordered 76 pieces, and then, you see, the modernized ones will go.
Maybe it's better to read more closely and think a little longer, and not pick your ass, eh, dear commentators?

[Herman 4223]

Now they will throw minuses at you.
On my own I will add that modernization is bread for designers, technologists and others. They have to rack their brains to make the technique better in the future. And before the modernized version appears, it will take years. During this time, normal serial production will already be established.

[Lech from Android.]

Now they will throw minuses at you.

And I put a plus ... for balance.
Emotions or reason? ... What will prevail on the forum?

[Herman 4223]

I am also a plus, but I see a person has a minus again, emotions take over.
As if the forum is female or hostile.

[Normal]

The process is life. The result is death.
Who needs the result (adoption and mass production)?
Nobody. (Well, perhaps for manufacturers and users. - commanders, pilots, technicians. Well ... what a boring thing)
But the process (endless modernization without real production) - allows you to master more and more new horizons ...
development of the budget.
But what is the name of the process without achieving a result?

[Herman 4223]

Retrofit and batch production must go together. There will be no sense in production if they drive out morally obsolete equipment.

[Normal]

Quote: Herman 4223

Retrofit and batch production must go together.

Serial production has been established. Dozens of planes. A serial car went to the troops. I understand correctly?
So that the technology does not become morally obsolete at the stage of endless testing of improvements and even modernizations, it is necessary to accelerate its production and entry into the troops.
How was Stalin there? Improve? Yes. But so that production does not suffer and the amount of production does not decrease.
We have been developing and testing new technology for decades. How can it not become morally obsolete in such a time?

[Herman 4223]

In the USSR, there was also a constant modernization of equipment, and without time to become one equipment for development, the next platform was already launched. For example, the mig-23 was put into production in '68, and in 1968 the development of a new machine began. Until the time the new modernized equipment goes into production, it will take years, this time the conveyor does not have to stand.

[VO3A]

Dig deeper! Every year in combat aviation units, a certain revision was carried out by a brigade of representatives of the manufacturer's plant! It was called a set of revisions with a certain number ... For example, on the Su-17M3, I found the 5th, 6th and 7th set of revisions ... After each revision, the first aircraft that underwent revision usually did not fully work later. On it these "hard workers" studied, so to speak ... They studied on a COMBAT AIRCRAFT in a combat regiment. And from this there were fewer and fewer normal aircraft in the regiment, plus their own military "testers"! What is more from such improvements, benefit or harm ?!

[Igor Tikhomirov]

Empty chatter. I have somewhere lying around an advertising brochure of the mid-90s single-engine SU called S-57. It was positioned as a light version of the then version of the SU-35, developed in the late 80s. The matter did not go further than the defense of the proactive preliminary project. The same will happen now.

[VO3A]

Put on your glasses or wipe your eyes! This plane was called C54 / C55 / C56! It was developed for production ... By the way, they are going to revive it and it's high time ...

[ODERVIT]

At all times, based on the results of flight tests and operating experience in aviation units, modernization and revision programs were developed. However, there was no internet and everything went on as usual.

[Normal]

Quote: ODERVIT

and operating experience in aviation units

[ODERVIT]

Flight test ...

[Normal]

Flight tests do not provide operational experience in aviation units.
Flight tests are carried out on single prototypes of production and by pilots of exceptional qualifications, in contrast to the operation of serial machines by combat pilots.
The conclusions from flight tests and operating experience can vary greatly.

[ODERVIT]

Thanks for the clarifications.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Normal

Quote: ODERVIT

and operating experience in aviation units

And why did you not cite the whole phrase, but pulled out only what is beneficial to you?

based on flight test results and operating experience in aviation units

[Normal]

Piramidon

I will answer your question.
I didn’t pull out only what was beneficial to me (what is the benefit to me?), But focused on the fact that there was no operating experience in aviation units.
Now you answer me.
How long have we been on "you"?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Normal

operating experience in aviation units is just not there

But there are test results. Why separate one from the other?

How long have we been on "you"?

Recently. From today.

[Normal]

Quote: Piramidon

But there are test results. Why separate one from the other?

Then, that there is no other.
Here one is, and the other is not.
Are you really so alternatively gifted, or would you like to troll?

Quote: Piramidon

From today.

From today.....
you can go into the bright distance.
I don’t feed trolls and don’t communicate with boors.

[Avior]

Tests are carried out in relation to a specific aircraft specimen in a strictly predetermined amount.
But different aircraft can behave differently, especially during operation and wear and tear.

[Piramidon]

If, during the tests of several copies, the same jambs appear, then they carry out general work on modernization on all aircraft.

[Avior]

And if they are not the same, then they also spend

[Piramidon]

Quote: Avior

And if they are not the same, then they also spend

If the jamb appears on one plane, and does not appear on the others, then the work is carried out only on one. This is already called simply troubleshooting and has nothing to do with modernization and improvements.

[Avior]

If on one, then the others are checked.
It can manifest itself on part of the aircraft, and not on one or all

[Piramidon]

What does verification have to do with the modernization in question? Have you decided to start trolling?

[Avior]

Do you read your posts yourself?

If a jamb appears on one plane, and does not appear on the rest, then the work is carried out only on one.

After that, all the rest will be checked - is it an accidental defect or has it manifested itself only on one side, but maybe on others? Until the suspension of all flights, until they figure it out.
Or it may appear on several at once, but not all of them. They also understand the reasons, and not just correct them.
So see?

[Piramidon]

I don’t need to explain what I’ve been doing for almost half my life. What does modernization have to do with it? In such cases, an instruction comes from above and a CHECK is performed, but not an upgrade. And only if, as a result of checks, multiple similar jambs are found, a bulletin is issued on improvements.

[Avior]

Sorry, you should read your posts

If, during the tests of several copies, the same jambs appear, then they carry out general work on modernization on all aircraft.

[Marachuh]

Doing it right! Why produce a crude machine like the F35? It is better to immediately eliminate comments and refine them. Releasing already directly upgraded with 2 stage engine.

[Babay Atasovich]

Bond infiltrated the USSR and stole the Yak-42 blueprints. I brought it. They built and received a steam locomotive on them !!! Collapse, Yeltsinization, specialists came to the Russian Federation and asked: "We exactly assembled according to the drawings, but we got a steam locomotive! What's the secret ??!" .. The head of the design bureau rummaged through the shelves, put a hefty box of documents and replies:
"Look how many corrections, additions, modifications were made after !!!"

[Dikson]

... And the next "news from the fields" .. - for the "leaders of production", holding the tonsils of the entire Mediterranean with the help of three Tu22 .. So .. The brave trinity has already successfully returned home. after a demonstration flight over the resorts of the Mediterranean Sea ... And thank God. I would only leave strategic aviation at a foreign airfield, through which Israeli missiles sometimes fly ..

[Runoway]

And the next "news from the fields"

Well, yes, they scared the West with paper maps, which in turn confirms the need for modernization in "every corner".

[Nikolaevich I]

Upgrade or Upgrade? Now the people "procrastinate", mainly, the casuistry of words, and as a result, the true meaning of what is happening with the Su-57 is lost "behind the screen"! "What do you call a yacht, so it will float"? Maybe you shouldn't cling to "worn out" words and understand the correct meaning behind verbal forms? I also have stereotypes ... I think that technology is being modernized when it has served for a certain number of years ... a sufficient number of shortcomings have been revealed, new equipment and weapons have appeared, new materials and new requirements for efficiency and functionality of "devices" have appeared ... and when there is something to "modernize" - modernize! Currently, there is a process of KB-shnogo improvement ... or, if you prefer, a phased improvement! And then everything is natural! For example, an airplane must be taught to find targets, aim weapons at them, thereby performing combat missions ... And in the "presence" only a radar with PFAR and ammunition N-29! And I want a radar with AFAR and ammunition N-38! And what? Wait for AFAR and "super. Ammunition"? And not to work out the engine operating modes at different stages of the combat mission? Not to check the operation of the "bomb bay" by dropping "blanks" (dummies of future weapons)? Not to compare the reliability of pushbutton and slide switches? Or is it possible? But then AFAR and "super. Ammunition" appeared ... what is it? Modernization or planned improvement? So it turns out that there can be "talks" about modernization in the "press" and on page VO, which, in fact, is really ... planned improvement (improvement)!

[Castro Ruiz]

Taking into account the development time, it is quite normal that there will be modernization, e.z. inclusion of new technologies.

[Pavel57]

The name was invented by the Su-57 M.

[yfast]

e6 usars tejoM

[outsider]

Quote: Avior

And each aircraft in the squadron will have its own unique radar and fuselage shape? A very strange idea ...

- The idea is a little moronic, but couch x-perds and not so produce!

[yfast]

At whose expense is the banquet? 2 aircraft do not pay for the modernization in any way.

[outsider]

Quote: Thrifty

Actually, there are only TWO 5th generation aircraft F22 and Su57 in the world! EVERYTHING! !! The rest, according to the mass of criteria, do not correspond to the 5 generation, and especially the Chinese ones, which do not even have the necessary engine!

Quote: Rasul Aliyev

Actually, there are only TWO 5th generation aircraft F22 and F35 in the world! EVERYTHING! !! The rest, according to the mass of criteria, do not correspond to the 5 generation, and especially the Chinese and Russian ones that do not even have the required engine!

- Guys! Please remember: the word generation is written with "O"! The test word is "Koleno"!
Since you have decided to "talk about high" ...

[Ros 56]

You don't know Russian yourself, the test word is "stake" , the knee can be pronounced through and you will not check anything.

[outsider]

Quote: VO3A

There is one full-fledged aircraft of the fifth generation F35 in the world and only as part of the American network-centric system. Even the F35 aircraft of European countries that do not use or do not have access to the American system are not 5th generation aircraft ... These are aircraft with the capabilities, if you like signs, of the 5th generation aircraft ... The 5th generation aircraft only exists as part of a network-centric system, without this system it is not functional ... Even the F22 is being finalized to be able to fully function in this system ... All other aircraft are aircraft with the characteristics of a 5th generation aircraft ... The Korean aircraft is especially touching and already a 6th generation aircraft being developed in europe ... They do not even understand yet what it is all about ...

- It seems that you do not understand it. Grabbed a fashionable combination of "network-centric systems" and drive them ... The peculiarity and advantage of the 5th generation aircraft is precisely their ability to work successfully in perfect isolation from the system! And this is their huge advantage over the 4th generation fighters, which outside the system TODAY really mean little.
A 5th generation aircraft, such as the F-22 and F-35, is capable of carrying out reconnaissance of the target and striking it himself. He does not need AWACS aircraft, he is his own AWACS, he does not need RTR (radio technical reconnaissance) aircraft - he is his own RTR aircraft, he does not need electronic warfare aircraft (as a rule) - in the overwhelming majority of cases he is protected by stealth. For the most part, stealths need only refuelers ...

[Avior]

Therefore, by the way, the lack of double versions is surprising.
Whatever the electronics, for the purposes of intelligence and other things, a second person is needed

[Herman 4223]

I think such a version will appear. First as a combat training, and then as a kind of analogue of the Su-30 in a new version. The Su-30 is selling very well, and many will lay eyes on such a machine. There is a prospect of sale, so there will be.

[jaroff]

To begin with, there are samples with the power plant KL1 and there are samples with KL2. Modernization is ongoing.

[outsider]

-

Quote: Avior

Therefore, by the way, the lack of double versions is surprising.
Whatever the electronics, for the purposes of intelligence and other things, a second person is needed

- Or a very, very perfect computer ...

[outsider]

Quote: Dikson

... And the next "news from the fields" .. - for the "leaders of production", holding the tonsils of the entire Mediterranean with the help of three Tu22 .. So .. The brave trinity has already successfully returned home. after a demonstration flight over the resorts of the Mediterranean Sea ... And thank God. I would only leave strategic aviation at a foreign airfield, through which Israeli missiles sometimes fly ..

- Israeli missiles (as well as bombs) do not touch those who are not needed ...

[outsider]

Quote: Snail N9

Empty. Prototypes were also type of upgradeable prototype variants. Now called serial 1! (One! Karl!) The plane is already being upgraded. Mine doesn't even know what to say ...

- To say the only thing: the plane is extremely unsuccessful, it did not lie close to the 5th generation, to rivet it in a series of 70+ copies is a malicious squandering of the people's money. Those who need to know this and therefore are in no hurry to launch it in a large series.... R&D will continue on prototypes as the basis for preparation for the creation of a truly correct stealth fighter.
And the Su-57 - well, well, "the first pancake is lumpy." Therefore, it is absolutely correct that it will be modernized, modernized, studied, trained - and with a delay of 40 years they will eventually create something similar to the F-22 ...
And the F-22 itself will slowly retire by that time - gradually, not immediately, and will also be gradually replaced by the NGAD aircraft - Next Generation Air Dominance ...

[Ros 56]

Where did this infa come from, I'll prove it to the barrel.

[Zaurbek]

Blok-35 has already been done on F5 .... there is nothing to be surprised at. I would simultaneously upgrade the Su35S in the same way

[Ros 56]

And what Manturov has on his pocket in the process of modernization, maybe who knows?

[EvilLion]

So what? As soon as the technique is put into service, the development of a more advanced version immediately begins. The same Su-27M took off for the first time by EMNIP in 1988, when the base Su-27 had not yet been accepted into service and had been produced for only 3 years.

[Zaurbek]

They wrote that the screens in the cockpit will be changed to a widescreen "pier" ...

[AC130 Gunship]

It is still not clear what exactly the "heel" of this car is and how it differs fundamentally from 4+ or 4 ++. Engines, avionics, weaponry, everything is the same

[yfast]

Quote: DMi

And for the Russian Federation, production rates of more than 10-15 per year are simply not needed.
In fact, it turns out that the United States will have the same amount by that time) F22 will be written off completely. Most of the F 35 will be either decommissioned or not operational.

And we will win without taking the sword out of its scabbard ...