Military Review

There is no alternative history. Like a national idea

119

How long have I waited for the state to deign to remember the honor and dignity of its defenders. He will remember the old people who, at the cost of their health, and sometimes their lives, defended him from a terrible enemy. He will remember the guys who chased terrorists in the Caucasus and their honor.


I watched the film "Bastards" and realized that just now, together with me, another (or maybe more) future criminal came out of the cinema hall, convinced that the criminals also contributed to the Victory. Read in the news speech of another Baltic or Polish politician about the atrocities of Soviet soldiers in their countries and realized that he had just arrived in the regiment of Western liberals.

I watched on TV how another flock of teenagers fry sausages on the Eternal Flame, fully confident that there was nothing wrong with that. And the feat of those for whom this Eternal Flame is lit is just communist propaganda. I watched a film about how in besieged Leningrad someone ate from the belly, celebrated birthdays and so on, and I realized that this was a spit to the soul of all Leningraders. And those who survived or did not survive the blockade, and those who already live in St. Petersburg, and those who will live in this city later, after us ...

In my memory, the NKVD troops and everyone who wore this uniform was made monsters. At the same time, somehow forgetting that most of the most famous partisan detachments were just parts of the NKVD. They forgot that "SMERSH" was created on the basis of the Directorate of Special Departments of the NKVD, and one of its parts, along with the SMERSH of the Ministry of Defense and the Navy, remained subordinate to Beria.

In my memory, they made political instructors cowards. Little petty men who did nothing but identify those who were conducting hostile conversations, and drove the soldiers into the attack, while they themselves sat in the dugouts. They did it already when it became known who is depicted in the famous photograph "Combat". Even then, when in the memoirs of many participants in the war, political instructors were written about as those who were the first to attack, who, by their example, raised the fighters ...

Much has been done vile in my memory. I live for a long time, I saw and see a lot. And now, finally, he waited for an act from his chosen ones. On May 5, the head of the Duma Committee on Culture Elena Yampolskaya, First Deputy Speaker of the State Duma Alexander Zhukov and Senator Alexei Pushkov submitted to the State Duma a bill banning publicly identifying the goals and actions of the USSR and Nazi Germany in World War II.

Our past is our future


Memory needs to be protected. Defend because our past is the root of our future. The present and the future grow out of the past. On the example of a neighboring, once brotherly, state, today we see how quickly the present is changing, it is worth slightly changing the past. How the destinies of people change, how people quickly renounce their old people, how they renounce their own country.

We saw with our own eyes what many science fiction writers wrote about the existence of parallel worlds. The land is the same, the cities are the same, people seem to be the same, and the world is not at all the same to which we are accustomed. People are not the same. The state is not that. And already few people remember the recent brotherhood of peoples.

“It is forbidden in a public speech, in a publicly displayed work, in the media or using information and telecommunication networks, including the Internet, the identification of the goals, decisions and actions of the leadership of the USSR, the command, Soviet military personnel with the goals, decisions and actions of the leadership of Nazi Germany, the command , servicemen of Nazi Germany and the "axis" countries <...> as well as denial of the decisive role of the Soviet people in the defeat of Nazi Germany and the humanitarian mission of the USSR during the liberation of European countries ",

- says the text of the document. It was proposed to make amendments to the law “On the perpetuation of the Victory of the Soviet people in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945”.

Even the fact that our elected officials reacted so strainedly to the direct instructions of President Putin, which was announced at the meeting of the Presidential Council for Culture and Arts on October 27, 2020, is somehow forgotten. There is an understanding of the underlying struggle, the pressure that the authors of the amendments to the law experienced, but no offense. The draft law already exists!

In an interview with IA REGNUM, Alexander Zhukov and Alexey Pushkov spoke very well about the current situation:

“Recently, in the media, including, unfortunately, Russian ones, unsubstantiated generalizing derogatory statements are regularly published and broadcast on the air, identifying the goals, decisions and actions during the Great Patriotic War of the leadership, command and military personnel of the USSR with the goals, decisions and the actions of the leadership, command and military personnel of Nazi Germany. "

To put it bluntly, a simple question arises, which is very important to get an answer to today. To understand how to act in the near future. Who is to blame for the time it took to develop the amendments? Let me emphasize the amendments to the law "On the perpetuation of the Victory of the Soviet people in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945."

Laws requiring huge financial investments and changing life in entire regions are being developed and adopted faster. And amendments that do not require any investment, amendments, the need for which many people have spoken and written about over the years, have been developed for six months ... Who are these amendments up against? ..

Alternative Russians began to stir


I was waiting. I was waiting for the one who will start the fight for the "truth of the war", for an alternative point of view on history, for the opportunity to throw shit at the memory of ancestors, the history of our state, for the Western approach to history as a science, for some reason cultivated only in Russia and the former republics of the USSR. And he waited. " "Kommersant"! In the sense of "Kommersant" with an article by Maria Makutina "An uninvited historian is worse than a punisher."

“The government, in fact, declares a monopoly on historical truth and prohibits any public discussions on controversial issues of the 1930-1940s - for example, criticism of the actions of the NKVD, believes the senior partner of the Agora project (the Ministry of Justice was included in the register of foreign agents)“ Network Freedoms ” Stanislav Seleznev. He recalls that the archival documents on the activities of the CPSU are partially classified, and he fears that, together with the new constitutional provision on the protection of historical truth, these amendments will lead to prosecution for reasoning. "

Good excerpt from posted? History, it turns out, is not facts based on historical documents, but reasoning. History is not what actually happened, but what we agreed on during a public discussion. No, it is necessary to discuss historical issues. Simply because a lot of people work in archives, study some other sources. I fully admit that one document can radically change the whole concept.

But where to discuss and with whom? At scientific disputes, where you are confronted by experts who are familiar with the documents that you use to substantiate your point of view? Yes. At scientific conferences with the most respected and knowledgeable historians? Yes. And in a school where 10-16 year olds sit who do not yet have their own opinion, and they absorb everything that the teacher says, what is written on the Internet, what is seen in the cinema? Not.

We have broken so many copies, discussing the national idea, the ideology of the state, in the education of young people. Why do you think young people “are not what we were at their age”? Why don't our boys and girls understand much of what they say about the same Great Patriotic War?

Yes, simply because at school, in college, at the university, they study different history. The very alternative story that Kommersant is advocating for. I am sure that most of the readers have heard a terrible phrase from young people more than once: “But I will not go to fight if a war starts! I will not go to fight for the oligarchs! Let them fight themselves! "

And this is not a pose. This is the point of view. These are the real moods of young people. Not all, but a large enough part. They do not understand why even the repressed were eager to go to the front. Why did our illustrious marshals and generals go through the Stalinist camps for the most part? Why did they, in general, go to fight "for Stalin"? After all, wouldn't it be more logical to do what General Vlasov and others like him did?

The words that people fought not for Stalin or Zhukov, not for Soviet power or the communist future, but for their home, for their village or city, for their family, are finally incomprehensible to them. The teacher and the history textbook taught them different values. They remember the Holodomor, the repressions, the millions who died at the hands of the Cheka and the NKVD. They remember about the "hatred of the people towards the communists."

For example, I am always amazed by disputes over a seemingly as simple point as the question of which slogans the soldiers used to attack. Remember how many times you read comments from well-educated people who completely dismissed the slogan “For the Motherland! For Stalin!". Remember the newsreel footage from Stalin's funeral. These tear-stained faces. This genuine mourning. This is not a game or an implementation of a party meeting decision. It was!

"The authors proposed to ban the identification in public speeches, the media and the Internet" goals, decisions and actions "of Soviet leaders and the military with the" goals, decisions and actions "of the Nazis," which were established by the verdict of the International Military Tribunal. "

It will also be impossible to deny "the decisive role of the Soviet people in the defeat of Nazi Germany and the humanitarian mission of the USSR in the liberation of European countries."
And this is a quote from the article.

Alternative historians, just like that, just casually, ranked my deceased grandfather and grandmother, grandfathers and great-grandfathers of most readers to the Nazis. Those who rid the world of the brown plague can be called fascists. Simply because they carried out the orders of the fascists from the "Soviet leaders and the military."

Oh, how all those who licked all the places to Hitler during World War II want to forget about it. And those who really defeated fascism were mixed with mud. They were exposed as invaders, occupiers, rapists and murderers. And again I will return to the neighboring state. After all, it turns out there. And it turns out that Victory Day can be disposed of, and it turns out to heroize the punishers, and turns the victorious people into the terpila people.

"According to Mr. Budnitsky, the authors have proposed too general formulations, which may lead to their broad interpretation, up to, for example, the ban on Vasily Grossman's novel Life and Fate, whose characters draw parallels between the Nazi and Stalinist regimes."

What care for the cultural heritage of the past? Nobody will ban books. Simply because it is fiction, not a historical document. Reading such books is useful. But already with an established attitude to the past. Truth is always in the middle. And the man is looking for it himself.

Waiting for the amendments to enter into force


I often remember one conversation that was in my childhood. Back then, those who were breaking the back of fascism were strong 50-year-old men. And sometimes, we, boys, listened to their conversations under the front-line 100 grams about that time. The conversation was about penal companies. And suddenly a neighbor, whose chest was decorated with several combat medals, said that he was the very penalty box! And the first "ZBZ" got it in the penalty company.

We already knew about the repressions in the first days and months of the war and waited for a story about how some special officer sent such a hero to the penalty box for anti-Soviet talk or a German leaflet. But…

“Yes, they sent me to the penalty box for a criminal offense. I got to the front at the end of 42. Into the infantry. Once I saw a friend of a soldier have new boots and I wanted to change my broken shoes for these same boots. He just didn't want to change. So I had to steal a bag of pasta from the cook. In short, they quickly found me in the tribunal. They gave me a free kick for three months. Only I fought there for only two weeks.
Then we were standing in some kind of swamp. Rifles and two machine guns per company. Soldiers are like soldiers, only the shoulder straps have been taken away. It was necessary to knock the Germans off the island. They sit there like kings, and we chomp our boots in the swamp. And even a couple tanks they have there. The commander sent me to deal with the tank. Two gave grenades. Crawl and rip. Crawled, pulled. Only didn’t hit the tank. I had to slide into the funnel and sit while Fritz poured from machine guns.
And our artillery position was nearby. The forty-five was there. Not the same as in the movies, but long-nosed. Of the new ones. And around the men were lying. Successfully the German hit. In short, after an hour and a half, the German tank decided to shoot at our positions and climbed right onto the bump where the gun barrel was directed. I shot it. The tank is on fire, our people are yelling, the Germans are shooting.
And at night, when he crawled to his own, our elder had already read the paper to me. The conviction has been cleared. Heading to the next part for further passage ... ".

I remembered the story. Maybe I already forgot something. But how should I relate to the fact that in this story there was no resentment against the commanders and special officers, or some kind of heroism? Even how it turned out to knock out this tank is told with humor. It was lucky that the gun was loaded. It was lucky that the tank itself crawled out under the sight. Lucky that's all. And then the soldier received a medal for this battle.

War is a dirty, bloody business. And everything happens in war. And people are fighting different. Good and bad, evil and kind, brave and cowardly. I remembered this conversation for a reason. You can tell how it is the former penal box Uncle Vanya, or how they show in the movie "Penal Battalion".

You can talk about how a feat is unexpected, that a soldier treats a feat as an ordinary military work. And you can talk about how the unfortunate penalties were thrown into a swamp and forced to knock the Germans out of fortified and equipped positions without the support of the entire aviation and artillery.

And you can tell about the detachment. Uncle Vanya laughed at them. The fighters were starving there. The cooks of the penalty box were afraid, but those were not. So they fed so that there were no hungry people on the front end, and the fence that was left was given. They even threw food from the Germans there. And he had no grudge against them. It happened that penalties were also cowardly. They retreated. It was here that they watered the detachment over the heads of the "Maxima". And sometimes soldiers found themselves in the same trenches together.

The adoption of amendments to the law "On the perpetuation of the Victory of the Soviet people in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945" is not only a defense of the memory of the victors of fascism. This is also a groundwork for the future. This is the formulation of that very national idea. This is the formation of the psychology of winners, the psychology of patriots of the Motherland. Not the authorities, namely the Motherland, namely Russia.

Today we see how the West is shaping the ideology of destroying our country as such. Not victory over Russia, but the destruction of Russia. So we need to respond in kind. At all times, the Russians won precisely because they were united by a common idea, by one goal. We have always been a fist, not a palm.

The fist always hits harder than the palm. A punch is more sobering than a slap ...
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  1. atos_kin
    atos_kin 19 May 2021 12: 21
    +29
    It is not necessary to pass laws, but to stop covering Lenin's mausoleum at the Victory Day parade with plywood and to loudly name the names of those who led the Soviet people during the war years.
    1. SERGE ANT
      SERGE ANT 19 May 2021 12: 36
      +16
      Quote: atos_kin
      stop covering Lenin's mausoleum with plywood at the Victory parade

      Agree, this is our story, whether anyone likes it or not.
      1. Artyom Karagodin
        Artyom Karagodin 19 May 2021 16: 06
        +6
        I also agree. I do not feel any sympathy for Lenin and Stalin, but I consider attempts to shamelessly bypass their contribution to the history of the country as stupidity and an inferiority complex. We need to stop being afraid of the Soviet past and stop denigrating it. And then we hang the mausoleum ourselves and shoot films about penal battalions with barriers, and then we wonder why any Bulgarians and Czechs treat the monuments to the Soldiers-Liberators in such a way.

        And this law is needed! Only not by the same laws, as they say ...
        1. zenion
          zenion 19 May 2021 20: 36
          0
          Artyom Karagodin. By hanging and disregarding the creators of Victory, they give a signal to the former allies - do whatever you want with them, we don't care, we'll creak for the sake of appearance.
          1. Artyom Karagodin
            Artyom Karagodin 19 May 2021 22: 07
            -1
            Judging by the fact that this is done with the knowledge and approval of Putin, it is unlikely. I can't imagine him as a terpily. This is another problem.
        2. mole
          mole 20 May 2021 07: 55
          0
          Quote: Artyom Karagodin

          And this law is needed! Only not by the same laws, as they say ...

          The main thing is to be fulfilled.
          We have many declarative laws. How many corruption is accepted. But the reality does not match the income statements.
          It is simpler to write another law obliging everyone to become Patriots than to build a system for the education of patriotism.
          After the collapse, the only thing that more or less connected the peoples of the USSR was pride in Victory and Gagarin!
          Now this is no longer there.
          In my opinion, the more laws there are, the less common sense is in the decisions made by individual government officials.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 20 May 2021 11: 23
            +4
            Quote: Mole
            The main thing is to be fulfilled.

            May it be performed - to settle scores within the historical community. And apply for an unabashed mindset... And those who read, analyze and publish archival documents that do not fit into the official history or contradict the works of historians close to the authorities will be the first to go under it.
            For under denial of the decisive role of the Soviet people in the defeat of Nazi Germany you can bring anything you want - up to the publication of the list supplied in the USSR under Lend-Lease.
      2. bandabas
        bandabas 19 May 2021 18: 19
        +3
        It is our story, and not the crooks of pseudo-patriots with accounts and kids behind the cordon. You don't even need to point your finger. They are constantly on the screens. They "cheer" for the Fatherland. Free of charge and disinterestedly. hi
    2. stalki
      stalki 19 May 2021 12: 58
      +1
      It is not necessary to pass laws, but to stop covering Lenin's mausoleum at the Victory Day parade with plywood and to loudly name the names of those who led the Soviet people during the war years.
      Both are necessary. And preferably in a larger volume.
    3. knn54
      knn54 19 May 2021 12: 58
      +3
      It is high time to publish the textbook "Victory of the Soviet People in the Great Patriotic War" without reviewers-grant-eaters.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 19 May 2021 14: 56
        -2
        Quote: knn54
        It is high time to publish the textbook "Victory of the Soviet People in the Great Patriotic War" without reviewers-grant-eaters.

        Nikolay! There is a multivolume encyclopedia, but ... it is something "not very". And one textbook ... How many volumes do you plan to stretch it over? You know the victory in the Second World War is so significant that it is quite possible and MUST write a history in 1418 volumes, according to the number of days of the war. Then no one will be forgotten for sure! And everything is there: the army, the people, the number of heroes that day, the number of those who surrendered, the destroyed tanks, the planes, the expenses in money, the collected grain. By days. But can you imagine the amount of work and the AMOUNT that it will cost?
        1. Alex_1973
          Alex_1973 19 May 2021 19: 11
          -3
          kalibr (Vyacheslav)
          But can you imagine the amount of work and the AMOUNT that it will cost?
          Of course, it's much easier and more profitable to write lampoons about the USSR and its achievements, isn't it Mr. Shpakovsky ?!
          Why are they selling their homeland today ?!
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 19 May 2021 19: 23
            0
            Quote: Alex_1973
            Of course, it's much easier and more profitable to write lampoons about the USSR and its achievements, isn't it Mr. Shpakovsky ?!
            Why are they selling their homeland today ?!

            In my opinion, if you know how to read, I just propose to make it extremely difficult to write libels on the USSR. After all, a libel is a libel because it is difficult to verify it. And so if any person, including you, can easily and simply get any information from the archive, then how can you do this? No way! Is this consideration available to your brain or not? And about the sale of the Motherland, a question for you: is our green forest the motherland? Oil, gas - homeland too ("barrel of homeland"), nickel - also, obviously, homeland ... Rockets - ha, tanks - all these are pieces of homeland ... Pictures from the Hermitage ... And all this was sold from 1917 to 91st and sold. So it was not me who invented the homeland trade; this is what the USSR was doing and is doing now. And with this money, by the way, this is how you pay your salary!
            1. The comment was deleted.
    4. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 19 May 2021 13: 20
      +1
      Oha. Not for that in the 90s the people's property was plundered. And all these initiatives are filthy. Because in essence they are not defending the Victory of the Soviet people, but the wallets of the bourgeoisie.
    5. DNS-a42
      DNS-a42 19 May 2021 13: 29
      +4
      Will not stop. At the state level, we are promoting the idea that
      people fought not for Stalin or Zhukov, not for the Soviet power or communist future
    6. zenion
      zenion 19 May 2021 20: 32
      +1
      atos_kin. The author wrote a little about marshals and generals. And they fought not for Stalin and the party, but for the Soviet Union, for the country of workers and peasants, for the mothers of fathers and sons, for the entire people of the USSR. There were those who wanted, like Vlasov, but they were not allowed to do it. Although at the beginning of the war it was clear that not everyone was revealed that many of the responsible were acting up. If, during the celebration of Victory Day, they carried portraits of the Commander-in-Chief Generalissimo and marshals with generals, if their portraits were decorated with Red Square along which the army "heiress" of the Red Army and the Soviet Army was moving, then there would be less talk, if the portraits of generals and Stalin were in sight of the Mausoleum, where they hosted the Victory Parade, it would be clear to everyone that they remember and honor. On the rest of the days, let those who do not remember and do not honor it be hanged there.
  2. Far B
    Far B 19 May 2021 12: 23
    +1
    The author, well, how would there be a difference - to fight for the people's power or for the oligarchs. In the Great Patriotic War they fought for the first. In the First World War - for the then version of the "oligarchocracy". The results are completely different. So you shouldn't blame them for making such statements by young people, history itself confirms the correctness of such words.
    1. Mikhail Tynda
      Mikhail Tynda 19 May 2021 12: 39
      +7
      And in 1812 for whom did you fight? For the people's power or for the oligarchs? They are not fighting for power, they are fighting for the Motherland.
      1. Hypertension
        Hypertension 19 May 2021 13: 22
        0
        Quote: Mikhail Tynda
        They are not fighting for power, they are fighting for the Motherland.

        For the Motherland, but because of the actions of the authorities.
      2. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 19 May 2021 13: 25
        +2
        Quote: Mikhail Tynda
        And in 1812 for whom did you fight? For the people's power or for the oligarchs? They are not fighting for power, they are fighting for the Motherland.

        Only then did this unfortunate peasant not understand that it was possible to live differently. All these words about the abstract Motherland are of course very beautiful. But for a serf who could be sold as some kind of cattle, and for a nobleman, these were somewhat different homelands. And so it is possible and slaves born in the Roman Empire to blame the fact that they staged uprisings. Traitors to the Motherland formally.
      3. ont65
        ont65 19 May 2021 13: 57
        +1
        For God, Tsar and Fatherland. This trinity turned into "for the homeland, for Stalin, for Soviet power." Now you can only read about people's wars, but they are thought of as wars of professionals and this trinity is considered not relevant. Well, what is the leader of Putin? There is no idea, it is even harmful in such a state as the Chubais managed to do.
      4. Doccor18
        Doccor18 19 May 2021 14: 21
        +4
        Quote: Mikhail Tynda
        And in 1812 for whom did you fight? For the people's power or for the oligarchs? They are not fighting for power, they are fighting for the Motherland.

        There are different wars ...
        It's one thing when the enemy tramples your land, burns home towns and villages ...
        Another is when they are sent to fight somewhere, but this has a very mediocre relationship to the Motherland ...
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 19 May 2021 14: 48
          -4
          Quote: Doccor18
          Another is when someone is sent to fight somewhere
          If sent on time and correctly, there is less chance that the enemy will trample our land. There were our volunteers in Spain and China before the war, it is a pity that the war still began with monstrous losses. Did we have to fulfill our international duty in Afghanistan? Now, opinions are also different, but leaving the way they left was hardly the right thing to do, just as they left Eastern Europe altogether.

          The raised topic is not easy, but, for me personally, one thing is clear - the morality of consumers and the cult of money cannot be a boon for society. You cannot have full sovereignty as long as our "elite" is dependent on the West, keeping their treasures with Russia's enemies, as long as our Central Bank is under the IMF (since the IMF is ruled by the Americans, in fact, under the Fed), that is, in fact, under external control. We must start with morality, honest and understandable laws, with education and health care, with the state for the people, and not for a bunch of snickering oligarchs. Then the national idea will acquire its specific forms, and not under the guise of "alternative" patriotism, where even UAZ "PATRIOT" write very "patriotically".
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 19 May 2021 16: 12
            +5
            Quote: Per se.
            If sent on time and correctly ...

            And who decides that "on time and right"?

            Quote: Per se.
            ... international debt in Afghanistan?

            With Afghanistan, too, everything is complicated. There were many serious discussions on this topic, and many leaders, including the generals, were against the introduction of troops there. Military assistance and professional advisers - yes, a full-scale military conflict with the involvement of conscripts - is very controversial ...
          2. Undecim
            Undecim 19 May 2021 17: 21
            +6
            Did we have to fulfill our international duty in Afghanistan?

            Did we owe Afghanistan?
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 19 May 2021 19: 16
              +6
              The Mujahideen are minus.
            2. Per se.
              Per se. 20 May 2021 06: 24
              +2
              Quote: Undecim
              Did we owe Afghanistan?
              No, they shouldn't, I also always believed that it was necessary to act differently, especially since we had good relations with Afghanistan, and trying to make socialism there was a mistake. Another, difficult question, was it necessary to leave like this when the results were already obtained for our losses and efforts? It is impossible to answer this question correctly, without taking into account the fact that we have already lost not only our efforts in Afghanistan, we have lost the entire socialist bloc and the USSR itself, due to the betrayal of the party nomenklatura and Gorbachev personally.

              Now for your question, Alexander (Doccor18).
              And who decides that "on time and right"?

              Our pilots and ground personnel were in Korea (there were, and not only specialists, in Vietnam). Our units suppressed the rebellion in Hungary and the unrest in Czechoslovakia, by the way, both of these countries fought on the side of Hitler. Whether it was right or not, here I think it is right, that's what I meant in my first comment.
              What noted Undecim
              The Mujahideen are minus.

              No, not "mujahideen", but the children of capitalism and those who keep their watch in the net, working out their ideological bone.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 20 May 2021 07: 01
                +3
                Another, difficult question, was it necessary to leave like this when the results were already obtained for our losses and efforts?

                The results were microscopic, since immediately after the withdrawal of Soviet troops, the Afghan tribes already without hindrance went about their usual business - to fight among themselves, and Najibullah lasted only three years.
                I communicated with them enough and I had a firm conviction that the Pashtuns, and this is almost half of the population of Afghanistan, are not yet compatible with the state in our usual understanding of this term.
              2. Doccor18
                Doccor18 20 May 2021 08: 57
                +1
                Quote: Per se.
                Our units suppressed the rebellion in Hungary and the unrest in Czechoslovakia, by the way, both of these countries fought on the side of Hitler. Whether it was right, here I think it is right ...

                Khrushchev's short-sighted (to put it mildly) policy led to a whole series of "smoldering and explosive" conflicts. For some reason, he left Austria, and immediately columns of unfinished Nazis were drawn to Hungary. With their help, a year later, unrest began, and the Soviet army paid for Khrushchev's whim with seven hundred soldiers' lives.
                They carried out a boorish monetary reform - and got a mutiny in Czechoslovak Pilsen.
                They abandoned a constructive dialogue with Czech politicians and got a mutiny, which had to be suppressed with the help of thousands of tanks ... suppressed, but again at the cost of soldiers' lives ...
                Well, what's right here? The shoals of the "leaders" were abandoning the correction of the soldiers, and at the cost of their lives they solved the problem, or rather, did not solve it, but pushed it aside ...

                The country also has its own interests abroad, and sometimes they have to be resolved by force. But the highly professional Pennant should work there, and not the beardless boys on the T-55 ...
      5. Lannan Shi
        Lannan Shi 19 May 2021 14: 57
        +8
        Quote: Mikhail Tynda
        And in 1812 for whom did you fight? For the people's power or for the oligarchs? They are not fighting for power, they are fighting for the Motherland.

        I want to disappoint you. For people of the early XNUMXth century, Homeland is a native village / hometown. At least open Pushkin. If you read, rather than flip through, you will see what is the meaning of this word. The word fatherland, in the XVIII-XIX centuries, carried a religious and legal meaning, in our traditionalist way, or revolutionary in the Western (French). The word is a patriot .... And at all, it was actually a curse. For although it is not a synonym for the word revolutionary, but according to the meaning then put into it, it was not far from it. yes
        In general, you do not need to pull the owl over the globe. Those. climb with the standards of the XXI century, in the psychology of the XIX century. For then they fought for the tsar, the priest and the Orthodox faith, but the country was only a background for the above. Even then they swore not to the country, but to the emperor. Feel the difference. Yeah. But it won't be that way now. People's consciousness has changed a little. Are you ready to recognize yourself as a slave of God plus a king? A slave in the truest sense of the word? Not? Well then, don't remember what you fought for in 1812. yes
        1. Mikhail Tynda
          Mikhail Tynda 19 May 2021 15: 08
          -1
          "Why exactly the war of 1812 occupies a special place in our history?

          Because 1812 gave birth to the Russian nation. In the imperial period of our history, the Patriotic War of 1812 and the Battle of Borodino as its main event became a founding myth - it was on them that Russian national identity was based.

          No wonder Belinsky in the 40s of the XIX century pointed out that "Russia has lived more and stepped further from 1812 to the present moment than from the reign of Peter to 1812." He went on to say that 1812 awakened “dormant forces in Russia and discovered new <...> sources of strength in it, <...> rallied private wills that were inhibited in a sense of separated interests into one huge mass, aroused popular consciousness and national pride, and contributed to all of this. the emergence of publicity as the beginning of public opinion. "
          Well, something like this.
          1. bk0010
            bk0010 20 May 2021 00: 18
            +3
            Quote: Mikhail Tynda
            Because 1812 gave birth to the Russian nation.
            And Olgovich says that the Battle of Kulikovo.
    2. Pushkar
      Pushkar 19 May 2021 13: 41
      -2
      Quote: Dalny V
      The author, well, how would there be a difference - to fight for the people's power or for the oligarchs.

      Remember the First World War? How soldiers left the front with the slogan "Down with the gentlemen." What did it lead to? I still had to fight, but in much worse conditions.
  3. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 19 May 2021 12: 27
    +3
    The past is secondary. Anything has happened. Today's attitude towards him is more important.

    Of course, today there is a demand for a national idea, for a purpose in life, for a reason for self-respect.

    But if such a request is met literally and directly, then the result is such a terry totalitarianism ...
  4. mat-vey
    mat-vey 19 May 2021 12: 31
    +4
    The adoption of amendments to the law "On the perpetuation of the Victory of the Soviet people in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945" is not only a defense of the memory of the victors of fascism. This is also a groundwork for the future. This is the formulation of that very national idea. This is the formation of the psychology of winners, the psychology of patriots of the Motherland. Not the authorities, namely the Motherland, namely Russia.
    Is that going to close the Gos Cinema?
    And what kind of movies with their funding do not look at the "psychology of winners" is not even visible ..
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 19 May 2021 15: 57
      +2
      You cannot formulate a national idea by laws. Mult, Soviet, "Icarus and the Wise Men", did you look? If not, then take a look; that's exactly what it says.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 20 May 2021 06: 03
        +1
        Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
        You cannot formulate a national idea by laws. Mult, Soviet, "Icarus and the Wise Men", did you look? If not, then take a look; that's exactly what it says.

        Do you want to convey any wishes to the lawmakers through me?
    2. zenion
      zenion 19 May 2021 20: 42
      0
      As John the Baptist said, he will come and lead you, and you will recognize him not by his words, but by his deeds. I baptize you with water, and he will baptize you with sword and fire.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 20 May 2021 06: 04
        +1
        Quote: zenion
        As John the Baptist said, he will come and lead you, and you will recognize him not by his words, but by his deeds. I baptize you with water, and he will baptize you with sword and fire.

        So, so - what are you talking about?
  5. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 19 May 2021 12: 41
    -6
    Strangely, in the era of the USSR, such laws were not required, but the "foulbrood" went already in his era, somewhere from the mid-70s, and there the "perestroika" wave, the 90s, and these special years were recognized in all " crimes ", and at the state level, they began to repent, and then they began to nail down the mausoleum, they say they marched past it on July 22, 1945, threw banners at its foot and that's enough, but this is totalitarianism, oh, but Stalin was still lying in it, this is generally a nightmare that Europe and Hitler shared. To beat up, especially on May 9. There is no need for Russian citizens to spoil the holiday, the feat of the Soviet people. And then ... baaaaa and somehow they shoot such films like Penal Battalion and others, history, which is not so described. Yes, and where did George Soros come from, on grants, which were written in textbooks on the history of Russia and which were recommended and for which they studied in schools. Probably, they threw a parachute or crawled the border on their belly. Again, ordinary border guards. and the gunmen did not finish it.
    1. zenion
      zenion 19 May 2021 20: 46
      -2
      The rot went when the Bullseye came to power, the messiah from the devil. And before his appearance in every car on the windshield there was a portrait of Stalin from the mid-70s until the arrival of the devil's messenger. It was then that they began to throw mud at Stalin and believed a lot that everything they knew and did was wrong. Marked by the devil, he did for the people of the USSR what Hitler did for the people of Germany. The results are the same, devastation and poverty and power against the people.
  6. Doccor18
    Doccor18 19 May 2021 12: 44
    +2
    Laws, amendments with the desire to protect memory, history are good.
    Only, after all, the same history textbooks for schools and professional educational institutions are not written in America, and not in Germany ... Our Ministry of Education gives a white light to educational literature ... And our children are smart too. They see and understand a lot. Village guys almost all go to the army, and rich townspeople from megacities, with connections and money - almost no one will go. And what happens? Some (the poor) have to fight and die, while others (the rich) don't. Therefore, there is no that true patriotism that youth in the USSR had, especially before the 70s ...
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 19 May 2021 12: 54
      +4
      But then, to the heap, another law must be adopted: on the immediate DECLASSIFICATION OF ALL ARCHIVES AND FREE ACCESS TO THEIR DOCUMENTS OF ALL WHO DESIRES. So that historians and non-historians do not have to guess who was who, who was a hero on the battlefield, and who was turned on the tower and received bonuses for shooting a fugitive. Whether he fled or not is a separate question. That is, for anyone to go and find, like the act of the baptism of his grandmother Pelageya Kamardina, born in 1812 ... And not in 2045, so that this secrecy ends, but immediately. Laws should equalize the possibilities of members of society, and not equal them according to the principle "yours is mine to the right."
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 May 2021 13: 10
        -2
        Quote: kalibr
        But then, to the heap, another law must be adopted: on the immediate DECLASSIFICATION OF ALL ARCHIVES AND FREE ACCESS TO THEIR DOCUMENTS OF ALL WHO DESIRES. So that historians and non-historians do not have to guess

        You, Vyacheslav Olegovich, overestimate "non-historians". They have no desire to open archives. For the most part, they prefer not to poke around in funds, inventories and documents, but to use ready-made answers to their query in the Google search bar. We live in an era of instant wikipedia erudition, alas.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 19 May 2021 13: 31
          +2
          This is exactly what I understand. But when there is an opportunity, it will be possible to look for what is needed, and if something happens, simply point out that everything is possible, "but you prefer to eat fables." How many times have I given links to the magazine RODINA, ISSUES OF HISTORY ... I suggested reading them, and not ... "Hyperborea around us." So what? At least someone began to refer to articles in these magazines? NO ONE! But the aplomb ... "everything is not so", "you denigrate" ... "" I know ", and I want to say that you ... saw where you were ... Yes, these are the costs of mass culture.
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 19 May 2021 13: 25
        +3
        No, it is necessary to publish a "historical bible" with a canonical, ideologically correct statement of a legislatively defined list of historical events and prohibiting the slightest deviation from the interpretation set forth in it. For violation and attempts of revisionism - up to 15 years.
        The right to study other, apocryphal versions of these events, in exceptional cases, with special permission from the very top and with the taking of a lifetime nondisclosure agreement.
        Then all problems will be immediately solved and an era of prosperity will begin in a separate historical reserve.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 May 2021 13: 42
          0
          Quote: Undecim
          No, it is necessary to publish a "historical bible" with a canonical, ideologically correct statement of a legislatively defined list of historical events and prohibiting the slightest deviation from the interpretation set forth in it. For violation and attempts of revisionism - up to 15 years.

          Bingo! )))
        2. Professor
          Professor 19 May 2021 16: 34
          +2
          Quote: Undecim
          Then all problems will be immediately solved and an era of prosperity will begin in a separate historical reserve.

          It will not come until they start walking in formation. And what happens? Everyone walks as he pleases and thinks about what he wants ... Not of any order. No.
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 20 May 2021 11: 32
          +2
          Quote: Undecim
          No, it is necessary to publish a "historical bible" with a canonical one, ideologically correct the statement of a legally defined list of historical events and prohibiting the slightest deviation from the interpretation set forth in it.

          There is one problem - for this you need to first approve the ideology.
          Quote: Undecim
          For violation and attempts of revisionism - up to 15 years.

          Yeah .. and then another group comes to power, changes its ideology - and the authors of the "historical bible" are already declared revisionists. smile

          There is only one way out - to jail all the historians. Proactively.

          And in general - what kind of story are we talking about? It was said in 2011 that Russia was only 20 years old.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 20 May 2021 11: 47
            +3
            There is one problem - for this you need to first approve the ideology.

            There is no such problem. If we proceed from the functional definition of capitalism, then it is an ideology in itself - the use of money to get even more money.
            Everything else is subordinated to this function, including history, which is used as one of the ways to make the minorities agree with their position and believe in a miracle that moving along the indicated path, they will become beneficiaries.
      3. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 19 May 2021 13: 35
        +2
        Someone about what, and liberal historians about gulags with guards. Those who are blind in one eye believe that the true picture of the world is revealed to them.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 19 May 2021 13: 47
          +1
          Makar! Can you read? Everyone, including you, is invited to open access to all archives. That is, the true picture of the world will also open to you. And the blind in one eye will be able to look in both. Are you against?
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 19 May 2021 13: 51
            +6
            Quote: kalibr
            Can you read?

            Not as good as you write, but I can.
            Quote: kalibr
            Everyone, including you, is invited to open access to all archives.

            I read it carefully.
            Quote: kalibr
            That is, the true picture of the world will also open to you.

            That will open to me. To some extent. But it's not about me, it's about you.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 19 May 2021 13: 52
              -3
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              That will open to me. To some extent.

              And you will at least a little wiser ... I hope ... But you did not answer the main question that has nothing to do with the guards. Are you against the opening of archives for everyone, removing the stamps secretly from classified documents today until 2045? Yes or no? And if against ... then why?
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 19 May 2021 13: 53
                +2
                Quote: kalibr
                And you will at least grow wiser ...

                Thank you. I hope you too. PS I gave you one more plus. Virtual lives matter.
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 19 May 2021 13: 59
                  -4
                  Ooh! This is probably El Niño's influence ... But thanks anyway. The ice has broken! By the way, and I to you!
              2. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 19 May 2021 14: 01
                +2
                Quote: kalibr
                Are you against the opening of archives for everyone, removing the stamps secretly from classified documents today until 2045? Yes or no? And if against ... then why?

                I am totally against it. Well, you never know what kind of thoughts there may come to the head of the plebs and other proletarians after reading.
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 19 May 2021 14: 46
                  -3
                  At one time in the USSR there was such a "proletarian writer" M. Gorky. So he put good words into the mouth of one of his heroes: "Lies are the religion of slaves and masters ... Truth is the god of a free man!" And the plebs have a bad head from ignorance or incomplete knowledge, but if he knows everything, has the opportunity to check what they say to him, he will grow wiser!
                  And here are the words of Lenin about the same: "Our concept of strength is different. In our view, the state is strong because of the consciousness of the masses. It is strong when the masses know everything, can judge everything and go for everything consciously."
                  1. IS-80_RVGK2
                    IS-80_RVGK2 19 May 2021 15: 26
                    0
                    Quote: kalibr
                    And the plebs have a bad head from ignorance or incomplete knowledge. And if he knows everything, to be able to check what they say to him - he will grow wiser!

                    According to the Pareto principle, he will never grow wiser.
                    Quote: kalibr
                    And here are the words of Lenin about the same:

                    As is generally known, Lenin was always mistaken in everything. And he plotted against the Russian people.
                    1. kalibr
                      kalibr 19 May 2021 15: 45
                      -1
                      Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                      According to the Pareto principle, he will never grow wiser.
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And here are the words of Lenin about the same:
                      As is generally known, Lenin was always mistaken in everything. And he plotted against the Russian people.

                      Something "led you to the wrong steppe" today. Hopefully from the heat, not from the drink? According to the Pareto principle, the same person can be in different%. In addition, the "80 to 20 principle" is reversible: there may be 80% stupid. But maybe 20%. And this is what we must strive for with all our might. And Lenin ... was wrong ... not always and not in everything, not at all. In this statement, he was not mistaken one iota!
                  2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Unknown
                Unknown 19 May 2021 15: 04
                +2
                Quote: kalibr
                And you will at least a little wiser ... I hope ... But you did not answer the main question that has nothing to do with the guards. Are you against the opening of archives for everyone, removing the stamps secretly from classified documents today until 2045? Yes or no? And if against ... then why?

                Well, the idea is correct, to open this way for everyone. And for those who went over to the side of the enemy with weapons, who chickened out on the battlefield, and those who collaborated with the occupation authorities, for all traitors, policemen, informants. Archives of tribunals, courts-martial, who for what, and why. They do not open them either. Then the picture will turn out to be interesting.
          2. zenion
            zenion 19 May 2021 20: 50
            -3
            Caliber is non-caliber. Those who write abomination against the people of Russia receive data from the archive, from whose archive?
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 19 May 2021 21: 03
              0
              Quote: zenion
              Those who write abomination against the people of Russia receive data from the archive, from whose archive?

              There is enough archive in the Russian Federation! You, too, can go to any one and work there. Basically...
              1. zenion
                zenion 19 May 2021 21: 15
                0
                As far as I can understand you are working in other archives
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 20 May 2021 06: 41
                  +1
                  Quote: zenion
                  As far as I can understand you are working in other archives

                  Go to ours, who's in the way ?!
      4. kalibr
        kalibr 19 May 2021 13: 44
        +1
        I wonder who put the minus? You don't want to know the truth about the war, about our heroes, remember everyone by name, remind them alive, help to find out the truth without distortion? That is, a sweet lie is dearer to you than a bitter truth? Here society has brought up monsters, no enemies are needed with such "friends".
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 19 May 2021 13: 52
          0
          I gave you a plus despite all the gulags.
      5. Doccor18
        Doccor18 19 May 2021 14: 15
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        But then, to the heap, another law must be adopted: on the immediate DECLASSIFICATION OF ALL ARCHIVES AND FREE ACCESS TO THEIR DOCUMENTS OF ALL WHO DESIRES. So that historians and non-historians do not have to guess ...

        Not a bad idea ... Only it is hardly possible - "declassify everything".
        However, there is a feeling that if out of everything "under the stamp ..." 70-75 percent is a reassurance. And if all this goes to the public, then the benefits for history will be colossal, and the harm to the state will be near-zero.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 19 May 2021 14: 47
          +1
          Quote: Doccor18
          then the benefits for history will be colossal, and the harm to the state will be near-zero.

          So I have exactly the same feeling after work ... in many archives. But I cannot prove it with documents in my hands. Alas!
  7. Cartalon
    Cartalon 19 May 2021 12: 47
    +8
    Yes, in general, prohibit anything to discuss and investigate.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 May 2021 12: 56
      +1
      Quote: Cartalon
      Yes, in general, prohibit anything to discuss and investigate.

      in fact, if you shake off the pretentious lace, Staver writes about this)
    2. nnm
      nnm 19 May 2021 13: 00
      +1
      Excuse me, colleague, but why such a conclusion? As I understand it, the ban only concerns identification with Nazi Germany. Where did you find that it is forbidden to investigate, discuss the actions of, for example, Mekhlis, Tymoshenko, etc.?
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 20 May 2021 11: 37
        +2
        Quote: nnm
        As I understand it, the ban only concerns identification with Nazi Germany. Where did you find that it is forbidden to investigate, discuss the actions of, for example, Mekhlis, Tymoshenko, etc.?

        ... as well as denial of the decisive role of the Soviet people in the defeat of Nazi Germany and the humanitarian mission of the USSR in the liberation of European countries.

        The same Morozov, who studies the real performance of the USSR Navy in the Second World War, can be easily brought under denial of the decisive role.
        1. nnm
          nnm 20 May 2021 12: 05
          +3
          Low performance has nothing to do with denying a decisive contribution. Both Morozov and Timokhin (I hope he remembered his surname correctly) assert exactly the opposite in their speeches - that it was precisely the concentration of all forces that made it possible to defeat the Nazis, although both speak of the low efficiency of the fleet and aviation, respectively.
          I agree that we would have a person, but the article would be found. But to be objective, there is no corpus delicti / offense even according to the draft law under consideration, in their actions.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 20 May 2021 16: 21
            +3
            Quote: nnm
            Low performance has nothing to do with denying a decisive contribution.

            The problem is that low performance is still elegantly treated by official history. It is still dominated by the numbers of the times of Epishev, when the same Travkin had 13 victories.
            And doubting these figures will just be a denial of the decisive contribution to the Victory.

            You know, I remember how Morozov was regularly rinsed for data from archival documents - precisely as a slanderer and defamator, casting a shadow on the bright past and on the successes of our Navy in the Second World War.
            1. nnm
              nnm 20 May 2021 18: 08
              +1
              I can only repeat about the existence of an article for everyone (if desired), but the fact that such a composition will be "pulled" on the same Morozov will be more difficult than putting an owl on a globe - that's for sure.
              I hope that we do not degrade to such a level that I will be wrong.
              Otherwise, the real feat of the people will be buried under the tales of such "heroes" as Brezhnev giving advice on a strategic scale to Zhukov.
  8. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 May 2021 12: 50
    +1
    Our past is our future

    How ... Glorious perspective ... Straight Orwell's paradoxes - "war is peace", etc.)) In his usual pretentious exaltation, Staver has already agreed to such a ridiculous and wild concept at the same time. This is no longer cute nostalgic senile conservatism, but bursting bubbles of propaganda methane in a cozy swamp of timelessness. In essence, neither the liberal get-together nor the patriotic gerontarius is interested in history as such. Their task is to impose opportunistic interpretations on the suggested masses. Comrade Staver, due to his age and Nobless lick, sees in ecstatic reverence for the past a pledge of ... what exactly?
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 19 May 2021 13: 31
      +3
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      ... what exactly?

      The answer is simple. Well-fed present.
    2. Hypertension
      Hypertension 19 May 2021 13: 40
      +2
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Comrade Staver, due to his age and Nobless lick, sees in ecstatic reverence for the past a pledge of ... what exactly?

      "Comrades! There are comrades among us who are not comrades to us at all." (C)
      The authorities are trying to crush both history and education. And our children will be taught "the truth" by all sorts of derzhimordy, which we establish the minimum wage and the minimum wage with the retirement age.
    3. Pushkar
      Pushkar 19 May 2021 14: 14
      -1
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      nobless lick

      Nobless licking - quoting the cat Behemoth? I briefly outline the idea of ​​Staver's article There is no future without a correct assessment of the past. One assessment of the past and the result is Russia, another assessment of the past and the result is Anti-Russia. And, please, write without veiled (or even not so) insults to the forum participants.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 May 2021 14: 23
        0
        Quote: Pushkar
        And, please, write without veiled (or even not so) insults to the forum participants.

        Please explain yourself! Where exactly in my comments did I commit rudeness or, moreover, an insult to the "forum participants"?
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 19 May 2021 15: 35
          +1
          Do not worry so much. He simply did not understand anything and, just in case, was offended by identifying himself with the collective.
  9. Poetry
    Poetry 19 May 2021 12: 52
    +4
    The homeland remembers.

    The Motherland remembers all the soldiers by name.
    She remembers everyone who stood under her Banner.
    The homeland remembers all its faithful sons,
    And how real the nightmares of creepy dreams were.

    The motherland remembers these names, every one,
    Those who left and never returned home.
    He said goodbye to his relatives, said to his wife: "I'm sorry",
    And he silently left to save his homeland.

    Didn't ask for privileges or advance payments for myself,
    The Motherland remembers! .. She will not forget about you.
    Then the executioner raised an ax over the Motherland,
    When he hung up, he shot at us point-blank.

    The executioner was left with corpses and gray ash,
    The soldiers walked towards those legions of Evil.
    Russia will remember the name of every soldier
    The one who once saved her in a fierce battle.

    He remembers the unfortunate who was burned in the barns,
    Remembers the little ones and remembers the old ones!
    Those who were poisoned by gas in concentration camps
    He remembers everything that the mind can hardly believe in! ..

    The motherland remembers all the pain of inconceivable losses,
    He remembers how Leningrad did not surrender.
    Our Motherland remembers 125 blockade grams,
    And what a monstrous drama there was ...

    Remembers people in factories in hard work,
    He remembers everyone who was in the enemy ranks! ..
    Remind you if someone has memory dips,
    Nothing is forgotten, not erased, not lost!

    The homeland remembers the soldiers who were injured
    The Motherland has all this in eternal storage.
    The homeland remembers everyone, good and bad,
    All the saved and those who are despicably abandoned.

    Holy cause, this is definitely not the theme of an anecdote.
    Ask yourself the question: where are you from? And who are you?
    If you see Russia as your homeland,
    Are you ready to fight for her in battle?

    S.N.Smirnov - Vyatsky. 2020
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 19 May 2021 13: 34
      0
      Quote: Poetiszaugla
      The Motherland remembers all the soldiers by name.

      I wouldn't say he remembers. Until now, all veterans have not been given new apartments ... Or have they already given them all? How many years have passed since the Victory?
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 19 May 2021 15: 42
        +5
        But not a bloody scoop and good people have new yachts for half a billion dollars.
      2. zenion
        zenion 19 May 2021 20: 53
        -2
        A couple more years and will receive their two square meters.
  10. nnm
    nnm 19 May 2021 13: 12
    +10
    I want to voice a very controversial and extremely painful topic. Yes, the Victory in the Second World War is an invaluable historical contribution of the USSR to the modern arrangement of the world, including, but .... is it possible after almost 80 years to build up the education of young people only on this? After all, veterans have practically left us, the younger generation does not feel this connection, does not see these people. It's history for them. Moreover, distant. One should remember and be proud of this date, but ... it is impossible to count on correctly educating young people living after 3 generations only on its basis. After all, look, the generation of winners also lived in a country that constantly gave reasons for pride - space, nuclear energy, a moon rover, the development of Siberia, BAM ... and this was the basis for pride for the country of all new generations. That is, people did not read about reasons for pride only from examples of the past, but lived these reasons throughout their lives, and not on the pages of history textbooks.
    Therefore, it seems to me that the more time passes, the less influence VICTORY will have on the consciousness of young people. This is not because young people are bad, but simply because of the remoteness of that event. As it happened earlier with absolutely important events - the militia of Minin and Pozharsky, the war of 1812, which at one time were huge events for contemporaries.
    I will say an even more controversial thing - perhaps a modern country should give reasons for pride "here and now", and not try to drape the Mausoleum with pathos on the merits of ancestors.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 19 May 2021 13: 35
      +4
      Quote: nnm
      it is impossible only on its basis to expect to properly educate young people living after 3 generations

      V-o-o-t - very clever words!
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 19 May 2021 14: 04
        +1
        I also agree. Young people should be brought up on the achievements of the oligarchs. It is stylishly fashionable and hype.
    2. Hypertension
      Hypertension 19 May 2021 13: 35
      +5
      Quote: nnm
      I will say an even more controversial thing - perhaps a modern country should give reasons for pride "here and now", and not try to drape the Mausoleum with pathos on the merits of ancestors.

      This is not a controversial thing. This is a sensible and sane idea. But the modern government on someone else's hump is trying to enter heaven. Stopudovo, there would be no Great Patriotic War, PR would be at the expense of WWI or the Patriotic War of the 12th year.
      1. ont65
        ont65 19 May 2021 14: 13
        +3
        No, for the authorities in the international arena we are talking about the legitimacy of the existence of such a country in principle and about reparations for the reorganization of Europe. Probably Hitler's Reich seemed to suit the Europeans more. The authorities, not because of a good life, stopped spitting at least the period of the Second World War, questioning the goals that were set by the same leadership.
        1. zenion
          zenion 19 May 2021 21: 02
          0
          ont65. Now it is clear why young people also do not believe in this power. It is very similar what Hitler wrote in his book with what became the main thing for Russia. That his plans came true here. "His fight --- Mein Kampf" was banned in Russia, so that young people could not compare what was written there and what was done here. By the way, Hitler's surname is written in German Hitler and ASH is German in translation and in Russian it reads like the letter "X", which means Hitler, not Hitler, so that the Fuhrer does not offend, so it remained, it turned out that he was not cunning. One philosopher wrote - "A well-mannered person can read and watch everything!" Aviary wrote - "in order to compare the sound of two bells, one should not argue, but strike the bells and listen to how they sound."
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 20 May 2021 06: 44
            0
            Quote: zenion
            One philosopher wrote - "A well-mannered person can read and watch everything!" Aviary wrote - "in order to compare the sound of two bells, one should not argue, but strike the bells and listen to how they sound."

            +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          2. ont65
            ont65 20 May 2021 10: 49
            0
            You and Hitler would have been to Yeltsin, he would have gotten along with him on anti-communism out of hatred for his former party comrades in a drunken stupor. He was still a lover of repentance, he would have fused everything to the West, if only he shared his ardent feelings with him. The current money began to be counted more accurately and their balance on anti-communism ceased to converge. No mysteries.
    3. kalibr
      kalibr 19 May 2021 13: 37
      +1
      Quote: nnm
      perhaps a modern country should give reasons for pride "here and now", and not try draping the Mausoleum with pathos on the merits of their ancestors.

      That's it!
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 May 2021 14: 40
        -2
        Quote: kalibr
        That's it!

        Or maybe this is a rating resource - the authorities will ruin the mausoleum, decorate with a portrait of Comrade Stalin, put Shoigu on a white horse - voila, the next day the loyal VTsIOM will bring in its beak the growing rating of Comrade Putin))
        Although, with a horse, I probably got excited ...
    4. Pushkar
      Pushkar 19 May 2021 14: 17
      +4
      Quote: nnm
      a modern country, should give reasons for pride "here and now", and not try draping the Mausoleum with pathos on the merits of their ancestors.

      Totally agree with you.
  11. Hypertension
    Hypertension 19 May 2021 13: 28
    +7
    the formation of the psychology of winners, the psychology of patriots of the Motherland

    For the psychology of winners, the fruits of victory should be visible. In the meantime, we have victories such as: "More than a third of GDP is in the hands of hundreds of citizens: Russia was assigned the first place in the concentration of wealth"...
    What kind of patriotism are we talking about if the country does not belong to the people?
    And, in general, there is a feeling that the psychology of caps and jingoists is being implanted. "We can repeat" and so on.
  12. iouris
    iouris 19 May 2021 14: 56
    -4
    There is no history. As well as the national idea.
    Of course they exist, but only for foreign agents.
  13. bubalik
    bubalik 19 May 2021 14: 58
    +3
    The cooks of the penalty box were afraid, but those were not. So they fed so that there were no hungry people on the front end, and the fence that was left was given. They even threw food from the Germans there. And he had no grudge against them. It happened that penalties were also cowardly. They retreated. It was here that they watered the detachment over the heads of the "Maxima". And sometimes soldiers found themselves in the same trenches together.
    ,,, and up to 42g. chefs who fed more? so the detachments began to form after the directive of the Supreme Command Headquarters No. 001919 on September 12, 1941, when there were no penalties.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 20 May 2021 11: 47
      +2
      Quote: bubalik
      so the detachments began to form after the directive of the Supreme Command Headquarters No. 001919 on September 12, 1941, when there were no penalties.

      To clarify - in September 1941, purely army detachments appeared at the division level - to maintain discipline in battle.
      The tasks of the barrage detachment are to consider direct assistance to the command staff in maintaining and establishing firm discipline in the division, stopping the flight of servicemen obsessed with panic, without stopping before using weapons, eliminating the initiators of panic and flight, supporting the honest and fighting elements of the division, not subject to panic, but carried away by the general flight.

      Detachments of the Third Directorate of NPO (rear) appeared earlier - in accordance with directive No. 35523 of 27.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX.
      And the detachments of special departments (the level from the division to the front, the area of ​​responsibility is the rear of their formations) - according to the order of the NKVD No. 00941 of 19.07.1941.
  14. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 19 May 2021 17: 11
    +2
    I didn't quite understand what the Author wanted to write about ... repeat

    As a child, I was taken as pioneers to Khatyn and there they told us about the atrocities of the Fascists (that is, the Germans) ... and no one said a word that our former Soviets burned Khatyn ... am
    1. domokl
      19 May 2021 19: 58
      0
      I can't help but comment. Yours is not true. The first time I was in Khatyn was in the early 70s when Kamensky was still alive. And he told us, the boys, that the village was burned and those who escaped from the fire were shot by the punitive officers from the 118 auxiliary battalion. The truth about the ethnic composition was said something like this - Poles and Ukrainians in the main. The Germans were cordoned off.
      In the textbooks of that time, only the Germans were really mentioned ...
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 19 May 2021 21: 27
        +2
        Quote: domokl
        I can't help but comment. Yours is not true. The first time I was in Khatyn was in the early 70s when Kamensky was still alive. And he told us, the boys, that the village was burned and those who escaped from the fire were shot by the punitive officers from the 118 auxiliary battalion. The truth about the ethnic composition was said something like this - Poles and Ukrainians in the main. The Germans were cordoned off.
        In the textbooks of that time, only the Germans were really mentioned ...

        Maybe they told you so ... but we, the children from the BSSR, were told from our "young nails" that Khatyn was burned by the Germans ... and even in Khatyn they were told ... in the early 80s ...
  15. wow
    wow 19 May 2021 18: 43
    0
    It is not even THIS that outrages! In numerous flying machines, such as Word of Tanks or Thief Tsander, there is a graph, for such IDIOTS - an alternative story !? Meanwhile, these ddbilam - the creators of toys are somehow unaware that history is a much more exact science than mathematics or physics, there is no "if" assumption in it, i.e. IS because IT was and nothing else
    1. domokl
      19 May 2021 20: 01
      +1
      Can not argue with that. In general, I noticed that even some VO readers use "historical information" from shooters as arguments in discussions. Few people pay attention to such "little things", and this is really a huge layer of pseudo-education of our youth
  16. Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 19 May 2021 19: 39
    +5
    I can only say one thing. In the 1930s, young people SEEN what the country was doing for them and what opportunities the COUNTRY was opening up for them. There were still people who remembered the "crisp-baked" tsarism and the reality of life in it. So there was an opportunity to compare. In 1935, those who were only 45 years old remembered what happened in 1910 in Russia ... They could compare. So that's it. The warring generation KNEW that the Country belongs to THEM, and that the COUNTRY does everything for them, from electrification, radio, and ending with free education and medicine, albeit not the best in the world (in 1935), but still. After all, the civil one ended only 13 years ago. So people SEE that life, even if gradually, is improving. And the country takes care of them. And that just recently electricity was installed in the village, and a school was opened in the village opposite. That the clinic was opened. That from a wreck was transferred to a new building. It was, it was all.
    And now "The state does not owe you anything", "The state did not ask your parents to give birth to you", these are not my quotes, these are quotes from Russian officials. And do you think that after such an appeal, after the absence of any other prospects other than plowing at 1.5 stakes in order to at least somehow survive, do you think that after that many will willingly go into battle? Especially considering the non-regulation in the Russian army? Yes, ask around the youth. They are more willing to go to AUE than to the Army, and if you got into the army, then you are a sucker who could not otmazytsya (words NOT mine). So it comes as no surprise. And if then, in the 70s and 80s, ideologists worked for 3-, now they are working for a solid KOL.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 19 May 2021 21: 01
      -3
      Quote: Baron Pardus
      do you think that after that many will willingly go into battle?

      If they do not go well, they will drive them against their will! Do you think the state will not be able to force those called to fight? Do you want to go to the ravine for cowardice?
      1. Baron pardus
        Baron pardus 19 May 2021 21: 20
        +3
        Yeah, they are great at fighting from under the stick. Shas. Roughly like the Russians in WWI and the Russian Japanese ... They will be deserting like the Czechs in WWI, in regiments. And if the commander is going to let them flow, well, Duc of the commander will be allowed to flow faster. The good old practice of all armies where soldiers do not want to fight. This is not a peaceful time, everyone has trunks. The prosecutor's office is far away, the investigators are far away ... And they will get help from the call to unscrew ... Not a single army has won the war from under the stick. And you don't really need to do anything - just go to the front and surrender there ...
        "What are you going to do in the 91st regiment" - asked the sergeant
        "Go to the front with the regiment," Schweik answered honestly.
        "That's right - the easiest way to get to Russia" Thought the sergeant
        If an army fights out of hand, it ALREADY lost ... If a soldier fights only for fear of getting a tower, then such an army ALREADY lost. Soldiers will simply abandon equipment at the slightest damage, or sabotage it themselves and surrender.
        I read in his memoirs that some soldier wrote that during WWI, in German captivity, they fed better than in the Russian army at the front ...
        If the STATE does not educate its little citizens, then ANOTHER state will educate them. You have no idea. By the way, we are losing it too. It does not work for LGBT and BLM, but For Freedom, Democracy and the American Dream ceases to work, since there is no freedom, there is no democracy (as we saw in the last elections), and the American dream has been gone for 15 years.
        Another thing is that in your country these processes of social entropy go from not to the night of the mentioned perestroika, but to be more precise, from the time of Kukuriznik - the evil jester Khrushchev, but in our country they go from not to the night of the mentioned Obama and his masters.
        But even in our country more and more often we hear the voices of those who served 5-10 years ago, and more that NOW they would not have defended what America has become. But our standard of living (for now) is higher than yours, and they will fight at least for that. And what will yours fight for? For a salary that is less than our minimum? For billions of Sechin? For Gaidar and Chubais? FOR 3 churches every day? Don't be fooled. Nobody will go to fight. And they will chase, so surrender or sell themselves at the first opportunity. And ours will provide it, since there is experience in Iraq. You have no ideology other than the consumer one. You doused your history with sewage, both Soviet and pre-Soviet .. (led the unfortunate innocent Crimean Tatars oppressed and conquered their non-existent Crimea).
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 20 May 2021 06: 09
          0
          So you want to say that we all were eager to fight in Afghanistan and the Caucasus? Why ... But they fought ...
  17. Prometheus
    Prometheus 20 May 2021 08: 38
    +1
    History, it turns out, is not facts based on historical documents, but reasoning. History is not what actually happened, but what we agreed on during a public discussion.

    And where is this stated in the passage you quoted? It speaks specifically of the monopoly on the truth - on the interpretation of facts, their causes and consequences.

    the authors have proposed too general formulations, which may lead to their broad interpretation

    And indeed it is. Have you read the text of the proposed amendments, Alexander?

    Here, from the wording of the document considered by the Duma in the first reading:
    Never in public speechIn publicly displayed work, the media, or using information and telecommunication networks, including the Internet... identifying goals ... and denial of the decisive role the Soviet people in the defeat of Nazi Germany and humanitarian mission USSR during the liberation of European countries


    Nobody will ban books. Simply because it is fiction, not a historical document.

    Is the book a "publicly displayed work" or not?

    Finally, a quote from Kommersant's article:
    And the international committee believes that the adoption of the bill will allow "to effectively defend in the international arena, including the platforms of international and inter-parliamentary organizations, the truth about the Great Patriotic War in its entirety."

    Those. to clarify the truth about the Second World War to other countries by means of persuasion. But the point is that in different countries the same events are often viewed in a completely different way. For example, the Second World War in the Middle East, especially in the same Syria and Lebanon.
    And an attempt to convince someone who thinks differently in their point of view, to prove something, shows only the weakness and importance of this other people's opinion for us. Opponents will not change their position from this anyway.

    So who are these amendments for? As for me, this is gratifying for the older generation, to which most of these deputies belong, and you, Alexander (I could be wrong). For those who grew up in the Second World War, for whom this is not such a distant event. But for those who are younger, this is not so important.
    The term "victoriousness" did not appear out of nowhere. It's like with Demyan's ear: when something good and necessary is started to be stuffed, from everywhere, from every iron, then rejection will naturally grow. Even from the point of view of patriotic education, one cannot reduce the entire Russian history to 1941-1945. From 1945 to the present day, we have been fighting almost continuously, but these conflicts in the public field are covered very little, or not at all. Well, at least now the situation is getting better, thanks to the Internet. This is true both for Soviet participation in Angola, Vietnam and other locations, and for closer examples - the current campaign in Syria, for example. But this is all a ready-made groundwork for research, and for movies, books, games ... and there are many participants in these events, although they often remain anonymous.

    PS Syria, by the way, is the clearest example of what "truth" is in its official sense. Our MO is often caught on fakes, smashing official statements about certain events to smithereens. And this is not done by some "foreign agents" or "handshake media". And those guys who are in the subject. Who knows the local internal cuisine wink
  18. Radikal
    Radikal 20 May 2021 13: 37
    +1
    Quote: atos_kin
    It is not necessary to pass laws, but to stop covering Lenin's mausoleum at the Victory Day parade with plywood and to loudly name the names of those who led the Soviet people during the war years.

    That is exactly why all the pathos of the author breaks down on these two episodes of the current history of the RF. sad hi
  19. LTMax
    LTMax 20 May 2021 15: 15
    0
    ".... Let's unite the faithful hearts
    And let's say, no matter how great the loss, -
    Let our fighter have no surname, -
    There is a title Russian soldier! "


    This is how Mikhail Svetlov's poem "To the Unknown Soldier" is posted on the web (I will not say it for paper sources). Is this a falsification of our history and a belittling of the feat Soviet people?
  20. Radikal
    Radikal 20 May 2021 15: 48
    +2
    There is no alternative history. Like a national idea
    But these statements of the author are quite controversial ... sad
    1. Arkady Gaidar
      Arkady Gaidar 21 May 2021 20: 18
      +1
      I, too, about the same below. But it seems to me, here they want to pass off wishful thinking laughing hi
  21. adler87
    adler87 20 May 2021 15: 51
    +2
    I personally don't need this law, for nothing. I know very well even without the law that both grandfathers fought, one was killed, and that he volunteered. And those who, without this law, cannot decide who they are and what they are, because this law is not an assistant to them. It's all empty, the deputies would be better off doing their own thing, and not populism.
  22. Private SA
    Private SA 20 May 2021 16: 44
    0
    We, as Komsomol activists, are slightly, not painful, but instructive
    kicked a fool who decided to light a cigarette from the Eternal Flame. I to him
    he threw a box of matches.
  23. Chack wessel
    Chack wessel 21 May 2021 06: 14
    0
    But what's the difference, what did our Power-Holders decide there !? Whatever Tony decides, everything turns out through the "F".
  24. Arkady Gaidar
    Arkady Gaidar 21 May 2021 18: 29
    0
    "A fist always hits harder than a hand. A punch is more sobering than a slap in the face ...!"
    Perhaps, but they cut it out with the palm more often, due to a decrease in the number of joints in the striking limb. And then the question is posed why beat? If we are talking about an attacking villain, so maybe it would be better to knock it out right away?
    The national idea can be found, for example, here:
    https://ridero.ru/books/uklad_mudrosti/
    But is it really needed today by the authorities, or by the broad strata of the Russian population? I will give an example, if a person is thirsty or hungry, he is looking for where to satisfy his hunger and thirst. And in this case, are the modern authorities, or 140 million people, looking for their own national idea? Is there a demand for it in society?
    And they will definitely attack the history of any nation, for this is the nature of political competition that wants to sow confusion in the ranks of competitors. It's just that some are attacked more than others.
    And about the "ideology of the winners", this is a very controversial issue. Probably, the authorities want to form a vision of the "ideology of the winners" that suits them. After all, we remember that the persons who betrayed and destroyed the USSR have not yet been brought to criminal responsibility. And those who carried out the criminal privatization in the dashing 90s, officials and oligarchs, have not been punished either. And in 2011, to the questions of the people about the revision of the results of privatization in the direction of justice, a certain GDP responded as follows: "The privatization was carried out unfairly, but there will be no revision of its results!" That is, the authorities admit that the mentioned process was in many ways criminal, but they are not going to return anything to the "victorious people". So think about what "ideology of winners" can we talk about here? Is that how they talk to the "victorious people"? Unfair living conditions are offered to the victorious people ?!