Military Review

Opportunity for the Russian "Sprut" to become a light tank: India announced an order for hundreds of vehicles of a new type

129

In the Russian environment specializing in military topics, there has long been a debate about whether the 2S25 Sprut-SD self-propelled anti-tank gun, designed for the Airborne Forces, can be considered as a light tank... Now there is a great opportunity to check it out.


Order for hundreds of tanks


The Indian army has notified the arms market of its intention to purchase 350 light tanks weighing less than 25 tons. As military observers believe, the desire of the military to receive this type of equipment arose after clashes with Chinese troops in Tibet. They expect to acquire a light tank with a multipurpose, modular and upgradable weapon system capable of dealing with various threats.

The new car should carry several types armory systems of various calibers for firing at ground and air targets with various calibers and with remote control [apparently, we are talking about the integration of an air defense machine gun and a gun into a single uninhabited combat module with different angles of fire].

The tank cannon must be capable of firing ATGMs and employing modern and promising multipurpose “smart ammunition”. The machine must have an auxiliary power unit, heating, an environmental control unit, anti-UAV protection, network support.

Opportunity for the Russian "Sprut" to become a light tank: India announced an order for hundreds of vehicles of a new type

Promising American light tank MPF


There is nothing to satisfy the order


Currently, there are several companies on the world market that have developed the concept of light tanks. Products on tracked chassis were created, in particular, by BAE Systems, General Dynamics and Elbit Systems. The US Army launched the MPF program to create a light tank for the Airborne Forces; two prototypes have already been delivered to the military for testing.

General Dynamics has developed a product equipped with a 120mm or 105mm cannon and armor allegedly similar to that of the standard MBT. However, it does not fit into the weight dimensions of the Indian tender: the vehicle weighs about 30 tons. For the same reasons, the light tank ELT weighing 18 tons from BAE Systems disappears: the vehicle is built on the basis of the M8 platform, modernized using mature technologies of the CV90 and Bradley infantry fighting vehicles.

There is no data on the mass of the Israeli light tank Sabrah, created on the basis of the Spanish tracked platform ASCOD. But we can assume that its weight exceeds the threshold indicated by the Indians, since the mass of ASCOD is 26.3 tons - and this is without taking into account the "weight" of the BMP in the process of its transformation into a tank. The situation is similar with the "medium tanks" K-21-105, developed in South Korea on the basis of the K-21 BMP weighing 26 tons, and the Turkish Kaplan MT (30-35 tons).

Thus, at the moment there are no products on the world market that can meet the demand of the Indian army. With one hypothetical exception, Russia has developed the Sprut-SD anti-tank platform weighing 18 tons. However, this vehicle has a manned fighting compartment, which will require its rearrangement. Whether the Russian Sprut will be able to become a light tank, will show the course of trading around the only order announced by India for the supply of hundreds of vehicles of a new type.
Photos used:
BAE Systems website
129 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Thrifty
    Thrifty 3 May 2021 04: 52
    +22
    Why not? Purely theoretically, actually taking the Octopus as a basis, bring it to the standards-requirements of a potential customer. Actually, it's high time for us to create purely export versions of a light tank and a light single-engine fighter. This is good money on the world arms market.
    1. svp67
      svp67 3 May 2021 05: 14
      +12
      Quote: Thrifty
      Why not? Purely theoretically, actually taking the Octopus as a basis, bring it to the standards-requirements of a potential customer.

      To do this, it is necessary to strengthen its armor of DZ and KAZ, which will increase its mass and make it not airborne, but as I understand it, the Indians do not care.
      1. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. 3 May 2021 06: 42
        +15
        Do Indians need a light tank with an uninhabited tank turret? Is the translation accurate? And where is she, besides Armata? Normal Wishlist. Make the technology and transfer it to the Indians.
        1. svp67
          svp67 3 May 2021 06: 44
          +5
          Quote: Nikolai S.
          Do Indians need a light tank with an uninhabited tank turret?

          It's not a problem to do this, the problem is time and money
          1. Nicholas C.
            Nicholas C. 3 May 2021 06: 48
            +5
            Isn't it a problem? This is a new development with all that it implies. Hindus want to buy ready-made 350pcs.
            1. loki565
              loki565 3 May 2021 07: 59
              -5
              Take the tower from the armata and put it on the octopus))) Since the AZ from the T72 climbed there, it will fit from the armata.
              1. Shurik70
                Shurik70 3 May 2021 10: 03
                +1
                Quote: loki565
                Take the tower from the armata and put it on the octopus)

                And we will get 45 tons instead of the ordered 25
                Only an uninhabited tower should also be accompanied by an "inhabited" armored capsule in the hull. And this is another 20 tons in plus (after all, the motor for such a weight will also have to be increased)
                Although, given the widespread practice of Hindus to cross a snake with a hedgehog, this may be the final option.
                1. loki565
                  loki565 3 May 2021 12: 10
                  +1
                  And this is another 20 tons in plus (after all, the motor for such a weight will also have to be increased)

                  And the meaning with such armor, the capsule will not help, and the armata tower stands like the floor of a tank, it was sarcasm)))
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 3 May 2021 12: 38
                    -1
                    Quote: loki565
                    And the meaning with such armor, the capsule will not help, and the armata tower stands like the floor of a tank, it was sarcasm)))

                    By the way, a normal solution. The price of the Indians is the last thing to worry about
                    1. Shurik70
                      Shurik70 3 May 2021 12: 49
                      +1
                      Quote: svp67
                      By the way, a normal solution.

                      I mean, buy towers from Armata for the Indians and attach them to the chassis of their own production?
                      They can do this in the end
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 3 May 2021 16: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Shurik70
                        I mean, buy towers from Armata for the Indians and attach them to the chassis of their own production?

                        The tower, respectively, will be slightly different in geometry and weight, and take the chassis "Sprut" or from the BMP-3
                      2. bayard
                        bayard 5 May 2021 00: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: svp67
                        The tower, respectively, will be slightly different in geometry and weight, and take the chassis "Sprut" or from the BMP-3

                        The chassis from the BMP-3M "Dragoon" (21 tons of weight), the tower from the "Octopus (with increased booking), if the habitable one suits, or the combat module" Armata ". Do not forget that the BMP-3M also has a rather voluminous troop compartment , it is possible to move the turret closer to the stern - for balancing with a heavy engine and transmission in the bow.And the crew can be placed in the stern (as was supposed to be done on some promising tanks of the late Union.
                        And in the declared 25 tons of weight, you can quite fit.
                        Moreover, the engine "Dragoon" in 816 l / s for the highlands, when due to the thin air drops to half the power - the very thing for such a tank. Even half the power is enough for him to energetically maneuver and overcome steep climbs.
                        So you can make such a tank for the Indians very quickly.
                        Yes, this one can do it yourself.
      2. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 3 May 2021 10: 39
        +2
        Quote: Nikolai S.
        an uninhabited tank tower? Is the translation accurate? BUT where is she, except for Armata?

        Look:
        In the series.

        Experienced samples:

        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. 3 May 2021 13: 03
          +3
          I have clearly written in Russian: "TANKOVA tower. "Do not juggle !!.
          Stryker M1128 - NOT tank, he carries the infantry. It has a cannon module with a carousel-type magazine on EIGHT!!!! 105mm shells (and 10 shells for replenishing the magazine stored in ... the recoil device compensator) cannot be called a tank module.
          "Tank" with eight rounds in AZ and 10 for replenishment outside "tank" ... It's funny.
          1. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 3 May 2021 14: 11
            -2
            Quote: Nikolai S.
            The Stryker M1128 is NOT a tank, it carries infantry.
            "Tank" with eight rounds in the AZ and 10 for replenishment outside the "tank" ... It's funny.

            Seriously? In your magical universe?


            The tower from it is placed on any medium tracked base. The concept of "light tank" is extremely vague. There are no clear definitions, so nothing prevents the Stryker from being considered a light wheeled tank.
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 3 May 2021 15: 46
              0
              That's right, colleague! In some magical universes, respected comrades have a lot of skepticism and little understanding of other people's points of view on various issues request ! For the 3D model, thank you very much hi !!! and by the way, 105 mm. a very versatile system, such as the 105mm M102, which even flew for many decades on gun-crafted (Lockheed AC-130 Specter) direct support of ground forces on the battlefield! yes
              1. OgnennyiKotik
                OgnennyiKotik 3 May 2021 15: 57
                -1
                Quote: Intruder
                by the way, 105 mm. a very versatile system, such as:

                It's all L7, the cannon is legendary. Probably the most common tank gun in the world.

                By the way, there is another interesting option. True, there is an inhabited tower. Stingray 2.
                1. Intruder
                  Intruder 3 May 2021 16: 26
                  +1
                  It's all L7, the cannon is legendary. Probably the most common tank gun in the world.
                  Legendary classic hi , in the western tradition! By the way, it can be placed on light platforms and even on wheeled chassis ...
                  , here some aborigines even decided to stick on an armored boat in a neighboring topic, so that they could immediately put blanks up to 10 km., put on their opposition figures by all sorts, in reed huts on the islands of the archipelago of a small ocean country! laughing
      3. Intruder
        Intruder 3 May 2021 15: 53
        -1
        Do Indians need a light tank with an uninhabited tank turret? Is the translation accurate? And where is she, besides Armata?
        Well, if you take it more broadly and not so categorically, then in fact it is an uninhabited combat module that can be installed on any chassis of a ground (mobile) platform with the appropriate design characteristics for the type of barrel weapon system used !? wink
      4. paul3390
        paul3390 3 May 2021 18: 07
        +2
        First of all - what the hell is an uninhabited tower for a light tank ?? It's light, and if something serious arrives, it doesn't matter where you sit, in the tower or in the hull. Some strange wish ..
    2. loki565
      loki565 3 May 2021 08: 09
      +5
      They need a light tank to work in mountainous terrain, the main opponent is the Chinese Type 15. The only question is with the angles of the octopus cannon
    3. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 3 May 2021 11: 10
      +5
      Quote: svp67

      To do this, it is necessary to strengthen its armor of DZ and KAZ, which will increase its mass and make it not airborne, but as I understand it, the Indians do not care.
      Then he can immediately take the ACS Carnation ...
      Weight 15,7t
      The firing range is up to 15,2 km, there is a guided shot "Kitolov-2M".
      soldier
    4. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 3 May 2021 14: 28
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      Indians don't care.

      Quote: Nikolai S.
      Normal Wishlist. Make the technology and transfer it to the Indians.

      Quote: Nikolai S.
      This is a new development with all that it implies.

      So it turns out that India with its Wishlist is becoming the "engine of progress"!
      Either they will stir up a tender with fighters, then give them a non-submarine submarine, or else a light tank of "unprecedented beauty" deign to provide. And the thirst to weld on a foreign order pushes the design and technological thought to storm the Hindu Wishlist!
      Well, straight 1000 and one night!
      Eat!
      1. ironic
        ironic 3 May 2021 15: 27
        +5
        At least add human resources. So the Wishlist, respectively. Nearby is a neighbor who not only wants, but can. How can you not want to.
    5. Jager
      Jager 3 May 2021 20: 37
      0
      KAZ and DZ do not weigh so much.
    6. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 4 May 2021 11: 55
      0
      To do this, you first need to abandon the landing of the car ... this imposes a bunch of restrictions. Abandon the BMD chassis and transfer it to the BMP chassis with iron armor ..... BMP-3 and Kurganets.
    7. The comment was deleted.
  2. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 3 May 2021 06: 06
    +5
    Quote: Thrifty
    It is high time to create purely export versions of a light tank and a light single-engine fighter.

    With good intentions, sir ... the road to hell is paved! Firstly, the RF Ministry of Defense now and then does not have enough funds to refine and acquire more needed "products" ... secondly, the following topic is beginning to acquire relevance: the bans issued by the United States to "ward" countries on the acquisition of Russian weapons! (Well, they will create a light tank and a light "5th" fighter in the Russian Federation ... and they will not be able to be attached to anyone because of the sanctions ...? to pay ? )
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 3 May 2021 06: 52
      +4
      MO does not develop and sell) it is a customer and a buyer)
    2. hrych
      hrych 3 May 2021 06: 57
      -4
      All their lives the Americans have been playing dishonestly in the arms market and nothing, our weapons are being successfully sold. There is no need to confuse Turkey, a NATO country, which has acquired our air defense systems and is now capable of shooting down Israeli planes, as well as the aircraft of NATO countries. Turkey also began to ignore American weapons altogether. Itself began to produce equipment in cooperation with Europe. It is useless to put pressure on India and even more so on the PRC. India is the most promising arms market and the Americans, if they deign to impose sanctions, will shoot themselves in the foot. Hindus buy from us and aircraft carriers (Gorshkov), lease nuclear submarines (Nerpa, Magadan), not to mention aircraft, armored vehicles and for the same S-400 a multi-billion dollar contract was signed, they receive a modified Onyx under the guise of Brahmos, etc. Yes, koprizny , are asked to transfer technology and establish their own production. But nonetheless. And now we urgently need to close the gap in high-altitude operations, not only with China. Therefore, there is actually no alternative to the Octopus, it will fit them both on the plain, and for landing operations, and even swims.
      1. Genry
        Genry 3 May 2021 07: 56
        +3
        Quote: hrych
        Therefore, in fact, there is no alternative to the Octopus, he will fit in with them on the level, and for landing operations, and even swims.

        The Octopus is not a tank. He is a amphibious / amphibious assault rifle. Anti-splinter armor. There is no KAZ.

        "Kurganets" seems to fit into 25t. But this is also an infantry carrier - the profile is very high - not a tank.

        And in general, all BMP-like chassis are inflated under the troop compartment and have smeared booking.

        What you need is a compact two-seater chassis. The tower with the KAZ can be taken from the T-14 (slightly lighter).
        But now, just for a light tank - Russia does not have a chassis. But it would be useful for a robotic tank, where, stuffed with equipment, there would be only one place left for controlling the driver on the march and servicing ..
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 3 May 2021 13: 03
          +2
          and which tank with 25 tons of armor will be protected from something more than 30 mm ?? , which can be sawed and brought up for 3 years ... and without result
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 3 May 2021 14: 46
            +2
            Quote: Barberry25
            our military adores projects that can be cut and refined for 10 years ... and without result

            You hear nothing beguiled? The military are operators! They are consumers: what Mother Motherland gave on that and ride ...
            And the defense industry complex is for fat cats from the military industry! Throw your poop at them! What does it have to do with the military, who order one thing, but they get it completely different, because - "Well, I didn't shmogla!" (Although, when they scratch for the order, they promise mountains of gold ... But, as we move forward, the sand dunes hide all their attempts! Like Vaska's cat, in the sandbox ...
            AHA.
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 3 May 2021 14: 58
              0
              Well, in terms of "military" I had the entire chain of MO + KB + Production ... For how many times this chain loves to test, and then "oh, the weapon is outdated, we need a new one" is better not even to count, because it will become sad .. And Octopus here is one example
          2. Genry
            Genry 3 May 2021 20: 02
            0
            Quote: Barberry25
            Put the Octopus Tower on BMP-3

            Actually, the Octopus is already on the BMP-3 chassis, albeit slightly elongated (+1 roller), for stability when fired.
            Quote: Barberry25
            hang DZ and will be the same 25

            And why hang DZ on an empty BMP? How many extra DZ will you smear ...
            It is better to make a compactly packed chassis (proportionally reduced T-90, multiply the dimensions by 0.8 WxDxH = 3.0x5.5x1.8), with thicker armor with a smaller area / weight of the DZ and of course with KAZ. But this is a new development, which is unlikely to pay off at the expense of the Indians (but it would be very applicable for Russia as well).
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 4 May 2021 09: 59
              0
              and a simple question arises ... how many years will the design bureau be sawing the chassis? 4 years ... and how long will the tests take? the same amount ... in fact, by the time the "short chassis for a light tank" is rolled out onto the mountain ... the Indians are already the second hundred they will receive tanks ... and relative to the thickness ... the current frontal protection holds 30 mm ... they hold 12,7 mm ... new samples, then there will be just about 27,5 tons. + there will be room for the landing
              1. Genry
                Genry 4 May 2021 13: 54
                0
                Quote: Barberry25
                ... how many years will design bureaus be sawing the chassis?

                The question is incorrect. If you need a surrogate, then make it out of anything. Any large container is called a tank.
                Quote: Barberry25
                , but if new samples are delivered, then there will be just about 25 tons. + there will be room for the landing

                And your "how old?"
                Space for the landing requires additional armored volume. And by weight it will not work out and by classification - crap.
                1. Barberry25
                  Barberry25 4 May 2021 14: 00
                  0
                  I repeat the question ... how many years will the chassis be made? The car is needed for the Indian tender, and not for "oh Russia wants to get a light tank" .. you have switched on the "saw-saw-saw" mode ... Instead of solving the problem, you are trying to come up with another wunderwaffe .. and the most important thing .. how much will the armor thickness of the "finished machine" grow? will it not be 40 mm but 65? And what's the point if the task is to fight enemy tanks? to get a theoretical increase in speed? funny
                  1. Genry
                    Genry 4 May 2021 14: 14
                    -1
                    Quote: Barberry25
                    the car is needed for the Indian tender

                    Quote: Barberry25
                    you have turned on the "saw-saw-saw" mode

                    This is your regime: why would you sell unnecessary - but first you need to do this unnecessary.
                    For the Indians, now the only correct option is to upgrade the engine of their tanks by changing the turbocharger with a higher compression ratio or to put an additional one in series.
                    Quote: Barberry25
                    Instead of solving the problem, you are trying to come up with another wunderwaffe .. and the most important thing is how much the armor thickness of the "finished car" will grow

                    Yes, you are a "giggle" type: wassat .
                    You stubbornly want to carry an armored void (your own car is used for the landing). Why this piece of heavy iron, in addition to a light tank?
                    1. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 4 May 2021 14: 21
                      0
                      "the only correct option" .. And the Indians know that they need to carry out a global modernization of the engine for the sake of a joke? Provided that they do not understand the engines at all .. and about "why carry empty space" .. In most tanks, the problem is just a shortage this place and the availability of space is a bonus, but you are a connoisseur of the T-26 ... I will not argue .. to sit with your nose against the armpit of the crewman is probably your dream
                    2. Genry
                      Genry 4 May 2021 14: 37
                      0
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      In most tanks, the problem is just the lack of this place and the availability of space is a bonus, but you are a connoisseur of the T-26 ... I will not argue ... to sit with your nose in the armpit of the crewman is probably your dream

                      In your dreams, how will you use the landing site?
                      To inflate the car at the whim "will not be enough" - you can endlessly (cartoon you and without me ....).
                      And the T-26 does not fit into the modern category of a light tank - only 10 tons versus 25. They would say about the T-34, although it is too big for the modern 2-3 crew members (there was a 4th and a dog "Sharik") ...
                    3. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 4 May 2021 14: 40
                      0
                      I will repeat for idealists: the task is to provide the Indians with a good car in a short time .. The growth of booking from "taking away a little space" will be meaningless, not to mention the fact that all countries that practice "making a light tank out of BMP" use all the space that is available inside .. And this is for you "why carry the air" .. And for me this is a place for the personal belongings of the crew, an additional ammo or the possibility of evacuating the wounded under armor .. So all your claims are past .. For this is additional costs and a guarantee of loss Indian tender, and without it, the land version of Sprut-sdm is basically useless and not interesting
                    4. Genry
                      Genry 4 May 2021 14: 50
                      0
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      And for me this is a place for the personal belongings of the crew,

                      Is this a warehouse of antique paintings and tableware or what? belay
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      or the possibility of evacuating the wounded under armor.

                      It doesn't seem to you that the withdrawal of a tank from positions, and even more so from the line of attack, is fraught with consequences ...
                      For the evacuation of the wounded, we have our own technique with an orderly and equipment - without him, you will only take out the corpses.
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      For this is an additional cost and a guarantee of the loss of the Indian tender, and without it, the land version of the Sprut-SDM is, in principle, useless and not interesting

                      And where did I write that it is necessary to tear for the sake of the Indians ...?
                      I'm talking about the unhurried closing of this "hole" for my army as well.
                    5. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 4 May 2021 15: 35
                      0
                      "unhurried closure" .. that's why I say that this is not the topic, write-the machine is created for the Indian tender, you have the classic "blind, and suddenly it will come in handy." Airborne Forces and MPs Russia does not need them for nothing
                    6. Genry
                      Genry 4 May 2021 16: 19
                      0
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      you have the classic "blind, and suddenly it will come in handy" ..


                      "Blinding from what was" just to quickly pile is your concept. I have no such thing anywhere close. You’re criticizing me for being thorough, and there’s such a turn.
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      provided that light tanks are a very controversial thing and, apart from limited theoretical use by the Airborne Forces and the MP, Russia does not need them for nothing

                      Your inner notion is far behind the times.
                      Now there will be a shift towards active means of protection. These are KAZ and rapid-fire cannon self-defense (30mm shots down with a couple of shots on incoming shells and missiles) and various decoy-blende. Plus, even stronger specialization of equipment, both in chassis and combat modules.
                      There is a "hole" between Uranus-9 and T-72, which is time to think about (BMP 1-3 - already on land cannot be considered combat vehicles, but are the base for SAM, ZPK, ATGM, electronic warfare, radar and OLS ... ..).
                    7. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 4 May 2021 16: 29
                      -1
                      1) then your suggestions are off-topic
                      2) a certain light tank, which will cost several times more than the T-72b4 with a new dz, kaz and panorama, will also not be of interest to our army.
                      3) Not to mention the fact that to create a car for your invented "hole" .. this is certainly very funny .. and this is still some kind of claims made at the time to BMPT ... laughing
                    8. Genry
                      Genry 4 May 2021 16: 41
                      -1
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      then your suggestions are off-topic

                      I am not fond of demagoguery - the stupidity is immediately visible. lol
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      some light tank, which will cost several times more than the T-72b4 with a new dz, kaz and panorama, will also not be of interest to our army.

                      Do you want to set weapon rates according to weight? And why then planes? fool
                      It never dawns on you that a weapon is assessed by its properties, which include survivability.
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      some other claims were made to the BMPT in due time.

                      BMPT? Want to discuss? I agree, for your sake, although this is a "congress from the topic" (you have to go to that branch).
                    9. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 4 May 2021 16: 47
                      -3
                      1) what is the point of buying a light tank? Previously, they were made because of just the price, in order to produce a maximum of cars during the war .. Then everything turned into an all-terrain vehicle ... About "properties and survivability" .. It's in the style of creating some super -KAZAS that will shoot down the enemy Bops themselves, as well as some "trickery"? For what? So that, in theory, a light tank would live on the battlefield for an extra minute until the second projectile flies into it? will hold back 120 rounds per minute of the same Bofors .. And for what? For the sake of "hi-tech" ... So here you are doing demagoguery, offering instead of a simple solution to create a wunderwaffe with a price higher than that of the Armata, which will not survive the meeting with the enemy BMP. ...
                    10. Genry
                      Genry 4 May 2021 16: 58
                      0
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      For what? So that, in theory, a light tank would live on the battlefield for an extra minute until the second shell flies into it? It is very interesting to see the cost of developing and implementing a KAZ, which will hold back 120 rounds per minute of the same Bofors.

                      A certain number of 40mm shells and even 57mm shells should withstand protection, and only stupid ones will continue to be inactive and "get hit on the head" (traditional BMPs have no chances here - they will saw 25mm cannons in half).
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      So here you are doing demagoguery, proposing instead of a simple solution to create a wunderwaffe with a price higher than that of the Armata, which will not survive a meeting with an enemy BMP ..

                      Who do you look like now? Not very good for a bunny.
                    11. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 4 May 2021 17: 04
                      -2
                      laughing you can immediately see the "topvar" expert, who does not understand what he is writing ... Why? because the only theoretical benefit of a light tank is its mobility, that it will be able to independently overcome water obstacles ... and now the question is ... how much will the "light tank weigh "in order to withstand shelling from 40/57 mm cannons? I give you a hint, the thickness of the armor must be more than 100 mm.... this is no longer a light tank, but quite an average one and its mass will be well over 30 tons ... So you can forget about buoyancy ... which automatically makes the creation of such a tank a senseless undertaking ... Or now you will tell about some kind of wunderwaffle armor, which will be light and the equivalent of a hundred parts to be?) laughing
                    12. Genry
                      Genry 4 May 2021 17: 33
                      0
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      you can immediately see the "topvar's expert"

                      I do not write articles and do not pose as an expert, but I can and will discuss other people's shortcomings.
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      Why? Because the only theoretical benefit of a light tank is its mobility, that it can cross water obstacles on its own ..

                      A floating tank must overcome water obstacles and it does not have to be light. It must be optimized for its conditions. Have you seen research on this kind of optimization somewhere? Me not. Maybe 500t is better there - a kind of corvette crawling out onto the shore.
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      I give a hint, the thickness of the armor should be more than 100 mm ... ie. This is no longer a light tank, but quite an average one and its weight will be well over 30 tons ..

                      You just forget that this is in the case of a "direct" hit. In the case of "oblique", there is a ricochet, plus, the geometric thickness of the armor becomes larger (30 "twice). And you need to overcome the active and passive additional protection.
                      Smoke and grooming can be applied. At the same time, the enemy has already lost the advantage of an ambush, it was recorded by the KAZ radar and it can be systematically destroyed.
                    13. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 4 May 2021 17: 43
                      -1
                      those. I understand correctly that you have no idea what you are writing? Nonsense about "but a hit, but a ricochet" I will not even comment on. In general, I have already seen your level of competence .. So about the corvettes, turn off the hysteria. If your proposals are not friendly with reality, this is the problem of your proposals, And not reality .. and yes ... "floating, but not light" .. this is something new ... In general, I see no point in the conversation .. you have no idea what you are writing hi
                    14. Genry
                      Genry 4 May 2021 18: 34
                      0
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      If your proposals are not friendly with reality, this is the problem of your proposals, and not reality

                      Oh, what pathos and no specifics. They could have kept silent - they would have looked better.
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      Nonsense about "but a hit, but a rebound" I will not even comment on.

                      You can't - that's why you won't!
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      and yes ... "floating but not light" .. this is something new ...

                      Warm or soft - it makes no difference to you.
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      In general, I see no point in the conversation .. you have no idea what you are writing

                      Good luck in learning the basics of life! hi
                    15. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 4 May 2021 19: 07
                      -1
                      laughing my advice ... never post comments like that ... never ..
                    16. Genry
                      Genry 4 May 2021 19: 14
                      0
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      my advice ... never post comments like that ... never ..

                      In general, you need to study the spelling rules at least approximately, otherwise with a small letter - such a bad manners!
                      You have problems with meaning, even in your council - a complete emptiness and no specifics.

                      And it seems like they have already said goodbye, and you have something itching ... Maybe you got infected? I'm talking about the coronavirus. crying
  • hrych
    hrych 3 May 2021 18: 17
    0
    Quote: Genry
    The Octopus is not a tank. He is a amphibious / amphibious assault rifle

    The fact of the matter is that it is a light tank in all respects. And the manufacturer did not have a license for the production of tanks, so they called the ACS. A conventional tank gun (unification with the Indian T-72, which is almost the key in the tender) with a classic ammunition load, a rotating turret, an automatic loading machine. So it also floats and is resistant to dropping with a parachute.
    1. Genry
      Genry 3 May 2021 19: 42
      +1
      Quote: hrych
      The fact of the matter is that it is a light tank in all respects.

      Can it withstand the burst of a high-explosive projectile in the immediate vicinity?
      Can he duel with another tank and not fall apart from the first hit?

      Alas, but its tactical area of ​​use is a surprise attack from an ambush, followed by disappearance or fleeing.
      Quote: hrych
      And the manufacturer did not have a license for the production of tanks, so they called the ACS.

      Which manufacturer could not get ....?
      The military has everything planned out and bureaucratic legalized. Any name - even BMPT.
      Quote: hrych
      A conventional tank gun (unification with Indian T-72s, which is almost the key in the tender) with classic ammunition, rotating turret, automatic loading.

      For a light tank, this is a bad gun.
      Here is a rapid-fire 57mm - that's great. And the enemy light tank will fill up and the infantry will quickly roll out.
      Quote: hrych
      So it also floats and is resistant to dropping with a parachute.

      Hindus are indifferent.
      1. hrych
        hrych 3 May 2021 21: 05
        -1
        The explosion of a land mine nearby will definitely survive. A direct hit by an enemy tank, if they do not put a remote control on it, will not stand it, just as it will not stand a direct hit from its gun and a similar enemy tank. And for DZ, he has a reserve at the request of as much as 7 tons. This is a class of light tanks and is not designed for direct hits. The reason the 2S25 SPG was initially classified as an anti-tank gun and not a light tank was that the ordering R&D department was the GRAU, which had no authority to develop tanks. At the expense of floating properties, it is not indifferent. This is not a mountain tank, but including a mountain one and there are enough tasks in the river valleys.
        Quote: Genry
        it is a surprise attack from an ambush, followed by disappearance or fleeing.
        Firstly, with some kind of fright, the heresy "tank versus tank" took possession of fragile minds. The task of the tank is to breakthroughs in narrow sectors of the front, raids on the enemy's rear to destroy his communications, etc. Moreover, the landing force is engaged in landing in the rear, seizing bridgeheads, bridges and swaying logistics and enemy communications. When the commander brought his tanks to the enemy tanks, then both commanders were shot for mediocrity. In the mountains, of course, it was precisely the fire support of the fighters in close to landing operations that was needed. Small calibers are also included in the range of vehicles based on BMD, but the Indians need a tank caliber with the ability to use ATGMs.
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 4 May 2021 10: 03
          0
          not 7 tons, the tower from the Octopus will add +4,5 tons to the current mass .. compare how much the bmd-4 weighs and how much the octopus-sdm weighs
        2. Genry
          Genry 4 May 2021 13: 42
          0
          Quote: hrych
          The explosion of a land mine nearby will definitely survive.

          How many tens of meters is your "nearby"?
          If up to five, it will tear or deform with cracks. And it will also somersault.
          Quote: hrych
          This is not a mountain tank, but including a mountain one and there are enough tasks in the river valleys.

          In the valleys, the T-90 and T-72 have no problems with the operation of the engines.
          Quote: hrych
          Firstly, with some kind of fright, the heresy "tank versus tank" took possession of fragile minds.

          The octopus is equipped with a 125mm anti-tank smoothbore gun. positions it as a "tank destroyer". This cannon significantly increases the cost of a high-explosive fragmentation round (as an act).
          If you want an assault highly mobile self-propelled gun, just put a 122mm rifled howitzer (with the UAS Kitolov) or 152mm (with the UAS Krasnopol, and won't it gather?). The 100mm cannon is already in the BMP-3.
          Quote: hrych
          But the Indians need a tank caliber with the ability to use ATGMs.

          Why bother with a smoothbore gun for that? Forgot about yours: with some fright, we have the heresy "tank against tank" took possession of fragile minds .
          Cornets can be safely launched from any adapted chassis and the caliber is 152mm at once. If it is redundant, then Bulat missiles (look in the Epoch module).
          1. hrych
            hrych 5 May 2021 00: 27
            0
            The ability to use ATGMs is not a tank-to-tank philosophy. ATGM is only a class of weapons - a guided missile, where the tank is one of the targets, although it has designated the nomenclature. There is such a class of weapons as an anti-tank helicopter. Where the tank is also just one of the targets. Those. in addition to armored vehicles (again, a broader concept than a tank), the targets are simply vehicles, accumulations of manpower and stationary targets of the enemy. And the anti-tank helicopter is synonymous with the fire support helicopter and the attack helicopter. Likewise, guided missiles. There are cumulative ATGM warheads, but there are also thermo-pressure warheads, for example. which tanks, like an elephant shot. In the mountains, it is the enemy's firing points, defensive positions, etc., will sooner be the targets of a guided missile. And on the mountain slopes, tank for tank is an even greater heresy than tank for tank on the plain.
            1. Genry
              Genry 5 May 2021 04: 44
              0
              Quote: hrych
              The ability to use ATGMs is not a tank-to-tank philosophy.

              You are already deliberately diverting the conversation away from the smoothbore cannon. Its presence suggests that the Octopus is a tank destroyer. The smoothbore gun stands out from the rest in that it can fire sub-caliber projectiles at a speed of about 2000 m / s, which is inaccessible to rifled guns.
              And you can launch ATGMs from any weapon or directly from the TPK attached to the launcher.
              Quote: hrych
              There is such a class of weapons as an anti-tank helicopter ...

              Start about anti-tank aircraft and about the infantry and ....
              Quote: hrych
              And on the mountain slopes, tank for tank is an even greater heresy than tank for tank on the plain. ..

              In the context of the Octopus: if the enemy has a tank, then your reasoning becomes heresy.
      2. Barberry25
        Barberry25 4 May 2021 10: 02
        0
        laughing the Indians have normal tanks .. but they have a problem .. they do not pull at high altitudes .. that's why they returned the old light tanks .. with us, if we really want to sit on this order one option: BMP-3 with an octopus turret and with additional armor .. either only spaced, or + dz if the customer wishes
  • cat Rusich
    cat Rusich 3 May 2021 11: 22
    0
    Quote: hrych
    Therefore, there is actually no alternative to the Octopus, it will fit them both on the plain, and for landing operations, and even swims.
    SAU Carnation -
    He does not jump with a parachute, but swims.
    Can use "Carnation" in tandem with UAV guidance for "Kitolov-2M" and hit the enemy sighting for 10-15 km ...
    Sprut-SD with 2A75 operates at 2000m.
    1. hrych
      hrych 3 May 2021 13: 06
      0
      Unfortunately, Cloves are no longer produced. Of course, it is impossible to shoot aiming at 10-15 km. if a person soaks his heels in water, then the horizon line will be at a distance of four and a half kilometers. Therefore, only a canopy with adjustment. Octopus can also, if necessary.
      1. cat Rusich
        cat Rusich 3 May 2021 14: 20
        0
        Quote: hrych
        Unfortunately, Cloves are no longer produced. Of course, it is impossible to shoot aiming at 10-15 km.


        Quote: cat Rusich

        It can use "Carnation" in tandem with a guidance UAV for "Kitolov-2M" and hit the enemy aimingly for 10-15 km.
        I had in mind firing a corrected shot "Kitolov-2M" using a UAV, using laser guidance.
        ACS 2S1 "Carnation" produced more than 10000 pieces...
        According to "aunt Wikipedia".
    2. hrych
      hrych 3 May 2021 13: 14
      +1
      Carnation is discontinued. At 10-15, she does not aim. For a standing person, the horizon line is four and a half kilometers. Therefore, only a canopy with adjustment. Octopus canopy will also send the projectile far away.
      1. SVD68
        SVD68 3 May 2021 15: 07
        0
        Quote: hrych
        For a standing person, the horizon line is four and a half kilometers

        On the plain or at sea. In the mountains, we can talk about tens of kilometers.
        1. hrych
          hrych 3 May 2021 18: 04
          0
          In the mountains, even more so, no dozen
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 3 May 2021 15: 38
        0
        Therefore, only a canopy with adjustment
        A small drone with adjustment and "illumination" to hang, it is light and cheap, you can also use the drone on a cable connection !?
  • knn54
    knn54 3 May 2021 09: 37
    0
    In Afghanistan, the MTLB with the Shkval combat module - 30 mm cannon and ATGM - proved to be quite good. True, there was a more powerful engine.
    The USSR Armed Forces had the world's first amphibious tracked self-propelled gun 2S1 "Carnation" based on MTLBu
    True, these were the developments of KhTZ.
    In the Russian Federation, MTLB / MTLBu seems to be engaged in a couple of enterprises in Siberia.
  • Intruder
    Intruder 3 May 2021 15: 36
    0
    Actually, it's high time for us to create purely export versions of a light tank and a light single-engine fighter. This is good money on the world arms market.
    To the heap, also a multipurpose submarine with VNEU !? And other seafood ... also pull up! But where to get it all, the right brains, hands and reduce the whole "effective" cohort in the country ???
  • Captain Pushkin
    Captain Pushkin 3 May 2021 20: 41
    +1
    Quote: Thrifty
    Lean Today, 04: 52
    +13

    Why not? Purely theoretically, actually taking the Octopus as a basis, bring it to the standards-requirements of a potential customer.

    Actually, in order to satisfy all the Indians' wishes, the development of a NEW tank will be required. The maximum that will remain there from the Octopus is the engine, transmission, propulsion unit and cannon. And the cost of this tank will be prohibitive. Exactly one and a half to two times higher than that of the T-90. Plus years and years of development and testing. It makes no sense for our people to undertake this at all - you can waste a lot of money and not get a contract.
  • max702
    max702 4 May 2021 09: 46
    0
    Well, the Indians staged dancing from the very beginning .. It will be even more fun in the future.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 3 May 2021 04: 57
    0
    A worthy replacement for the PT-76 ....
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 3 May 2021 15: 58
      -1
      A worthy replacement for the PT-76 ....
      Already invented and up to now: Object-906 (
      The tank was tested in two versions: PT-85 (with an 85mm cannon) and PT-90 (with a 90mm cannon). The 85 mm D-85 cannon was used as the main armament on the PT-58 tank, while the PT-90 version was supposed to use the 90 mm D-62 cannon. In both versions, the ammunition load was 40 rounds, of which 15 were loaded into the mechanized stowage of the automatic loader. The cannon had a two-plane armament stabilizer. In addition, the vehicle had an SGMT 7,62 mm tank machine gun paired with the cannon. Weight - 13 tons. Reservation: the frontal armor of the hull and turret withstood shots, caliber - 14,5 mm from a distance of more than 100 m. The turret housed an automatic loader ...
      )!
  • Graz
    Graz 3 May 2021 05: 01
    +1
    I think there is no need to mess with the Indians, otherwise they will throw it, they have leapfrog there lately in military orders and supplies
    1. English tarantas
      English tarantas 3 May 2021 05: 54
      +7
      I do not remember that the Indians threw us, but how ours break the deadlines and change the terms of the contract in the process, including the price - I remember. Maybe I don't know something?
      1. Alf
        Alf 3 May 2021 17: 48
        0
        Quote: English tarantass
        I don't remember the Indians throwing us,

        Does the FGFA story say nothing?
        1. English tarantas
          English tarantas 3 May 2021 21: 17
          +1
          Once? Our then regularly
  • Slon1978
    Slon1978 3 May 2021 05: 10
    +10
    Hindus want candy. Contestants will actually need to develop new machines for their requirements, there are no existing ones. Then the "customers" will see the price, say it is expensive - make it cheaper, and the cherry on top will be the requirement for localization of production and technology transfer. These are those "clients". Therefore, it makes sense to sit on the priest calmly and get by with the minimum task - to install KAZ on the Sprut, and it may be necessary to make a new complex - with protection not only from horizontally flying ammunition, but also from vertical directions, i.e. all-aspect KAZ. After all the tossing of the Indians - with a cheaper price, with the transfer of technology in which the Western participants will definitely refuse them, they will come to this option. And it will be a really interesting development - including for the Russian army, tk. Octopus with its paper armor, even without the ability to put dynamic protection, is not relevant today. And if there is an all-aspect KAZ on it, then the candy will turn out.
    1. Eugene-Eugene
      3 May 2021 05: 16
      +2
      For the Indian order for the Octopus, it is first of all necessary to install an uninhabited combat module, and not a KAZ, there is no mention of active protection in the application at all.
      1. Slon1978
        Slon1978 3 May 2021 05: 20
        +4
        The Indians have a lot of hoteliers. But you should not spend money on the development of a deliberately unpromising modification, and for Octopus there is no objective need for an uninhabited combat module. it is not a heavy combat platform. Therefore, as often happens, they get swept away, run around and come to the optimal ratio of efficiency - security - cost.
      2. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 3 May 2021 06: 02
        +1
        Quote: Eugene-Eugene
        For the Indian order for the Octopus, you first need to install an uninhabited combat module,

        It's right. Moreover, the trend of development of armored vehicles goes along the line of creating armored monsters with AI, capable of destroying others and protecting themselves. What can this lead to? Only John Connor knows.
        The most interesting thing is that the development of anti-tank weapons is ahead of progress in the creation of KAZ. And hypersonic options can nullify it. In addition, KAZ is likely to be affected by electronic warfare agents?
        1. ironic
          ironic 3 May 2021 15: 24
          0
          With the first space options and the Khibiny ... lol
      3. NDR-791
        NDR-791 3 May 2021 06: 24
        +1
        Quote: Eugene-Eugene
        For the Indian order for the Octopus, you first need to install an uninhabited combat module

        With our effective managers, they can give birth by the 30th year. Then another five-year period will be tested. And so the Indians have gorgeous Wishlist: both large and small and light and heavy ... and against drones and even environmental control unit... Is this a weather station or what?
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 3 May 2021 09: 57
          0
          Quote: NDR-791
          even an environmental control unit. Is this a weather station or what?

          This is most likely an assembly of sensors - microphones for detecting shots, a laser for optics, radar radiation sensors, etc.
          1. Eugene-Eugene
            3 May 2021 14: 09
            0
            This is most likely a sensor assembly
            nuclear
        2. Eugene-Eugene
          3 May 2021 13: 44
          0
          Nuclear attack
          1. NDR-791
            NDR-791 3 May 2021 14: 01
            0
            Quote: Eugene-Eugene
            Nuclear attack

            It's not even funny ... It'll just flatten it.
            1. Eugene-Eugene
              3 May 2021 16: 41
              0
              How does it flatten? The country is concerned about protection, it happens
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 3 May 2021 16: 03
      +1
      Therefore, it makes sense to sit on the priest calmly and get by with the minimum task - to install KAZ on the Sprut, and it may be necessary to make a new complex - with protection not only from horizontally flying ammunition, but also from vertical directions, i.e. all-aspect KAZ.
      Then, with this new and wonderful, KAZ with vertical modules of protection of the upper hemisphere of armor (plus and with a minimum reaction time, to intercept promising hypersonic ATGMs and warheads, with a "shock core"), it will cost - as a fighter of generation 4 ++ !? wink
  • Evil 55
    Evil 55 3 May 2021 05: 39
    +2
    Because of the hypothetical 350 machines, is it worth breaking the production line for such fastidious customers as Indians ... Although, as part of R&D, very good options can be obtained that can be used in the native Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
    1. English tarantas
      English tarantas 3 May 2021 05: 55
      +3
      To break something, it must be whole (
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 3 May 2021 16: 06
        +1
        To break something, it must be whole (
        Maybe - built and with a well-functioning production with a modern technological process to a heap, and possibly with a robotic conveyor of the assembly shop in mass production! ??? Then it will be a pity - all this progressive "break" for the sake of one Hindu client with his gloomy "Wishlist" !? wink
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 3 May 2021 06: 06
      +1
      Quote: Angry 55
      Although, within the framework of R&D, very good options can be obtained, which can find application in the family of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

      That is unlikely? Are we not enough of "mass infantry graves"? This is a billion of the population in India, and in Russia every kid is registered ... in the military ... lol
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 3 May 2021 06: 00
    0
    I don't understand .. Why do Indians buy weapons from different countries of the world? How will they serve him? Why all this "military venigret"?
  • alexey2073
    alexey2073 3 May 2021 06: 32
    +3
    This unfortunate 2S25 "Octopus" has been around since the beginning of the 90s. And the sense is -0. It is already technically outdated, the technologies, etc., invested in this object. ... He was decades late for his appearance. And the desire of the Indians is only the desire of the Indians. Whoever has created a light tank that meets Indian requirements, they will still repeatedly remake it for Indian dances and songs .... because Indians still change their requirements repeatedly, going from one extreme to another.
    1. Genry
      Genry 3 May 2021 08: 22
      +1
      Quote: alexey2073
      "Octopus" has been buzzing since the beginning of the 90s. And the sense is -0. It is already technically outdated, the technologies, etc., embedded in this object are outdated ..

      Octopus is not obsolete - no need to drive ...
      Just Octopus is a floating / airborne self-propelled gun with anti-splinter armor.
      If there were a KAZ, it could somehow survive in direct contact ...
      But all the same, Octopus is not for the mountains.
      1. Sergey Kulikov_3
        Sergey Kulikov_3 3 May 2021 09: 59
        +2
        SPG with a gun lift angle of 15 ", don't be ridiculous!
        1. Genry
          Genry 3 May 2021 10: 30
          +1
          Quote: Sergey Kulikov_3
          SPG with a gun lift angle of 15 ", don't be ridiculous!

          People like you will resent even 115gr. laughing
          The well-known ISU-152, SU-100, SU-85, SU-76 .... had any vertical angles?

          And in fact. Octopus сself-propelled? It аrtillery? It уpositioned in position?

          And yet, a smooth-bore cannon, with a projectile speed of about 2000 m / s, will shoot with a "canopy"? fool
        2. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 3 May 2021 15: 35
          +1
          Quote: Sergey Kulikov_3
          ACS with a gun lifting angle of 15 "

          If you do not know how to use icons - write "letters"! type - "deg." am
          Because your 15 " normal people decipher as "15 seconds" - if that's normal. Well, if so hottsa, then karyabayte - 15* - everything is clearer than two strokes of "seconds". This is so, by the way. yes
          And for the range of a direct shot and -5 + 15 * it is quite enough. Moreover, using a laser beam up to 4,0 km can be upsetting. And the caliber of 125 mm is serious too! Shoot yourself with BOPS and rejoice: everything is unified!
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 3 May 2021 16: 11
      +1
      Whoever has created a light tank that meets Indian requirements, they will still repeatedly remake it for Indian dances and songs ... because the Indians will repeatedly change their requirements.
      Well, that is how they are, dancers - "disco", well now, but if they get it right, they can pay at the buffet table after signing the contract, they can dance for free ... yes And what is beautiful and hilarious, men will understand ... drinks
  • SVD68
    SVD68 3 May 2021 06: 52
    +2
    Do the Indians themselves understand what they want? If they want a light tank, that's one thing (in fact, nobody needs a light tank). If mountainous, then this is completely different.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 3 May 2021 08: 00
      +6
      Light-mountainous, which would be steeper in everything type15 = the main enemy in disputed territories. Well, and its possible modifications. Therefore, the requirements are laid down in the prospect for 15 years.

      1. Eugene-Eugene
        3 May 2021 08: 11
        +2
        Yes, it will take 8-10 years to create a new light tank. Even if you take a tower from Armata, bungle the simplest option out of it, then how long will it take to adapt it with a certain platform (figs understand with which, BMP-3 is like the Octopus?)
        1. Graz
          Graz 3 May 2021 09: 17
          +2
          for the sake of the Indians alone and their hypothetical order, no one will do this, and I think this is correct
        2. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 3 May 2021 11: 07
          -3
          Octopus and BMP-3 dead platforms. Their time has passed.
          There are ready-made options such as CV90105 or K-21, they fit into 25 tons.
          Another option is a tower from M1128 for any medium tracked platform. The Stryker with a reserve of 25 tons fits in, it is not a problem to transfer its gun and equipment to it on a caterpillar track, there are options for the car.
          1. Eugene-Eugene
            3 May 2021 13: 38
            0
            Do you read the text? The Indians need an uninhabited module with a cannon. Who has it besides Armata?
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 3 May 2021 13: 58
              -3
              Quote: Eugene-Eugene
              The Indians need an uninhabited module with a cannon. Who has it besides Armata?

              Quote: OgnennyiKotik
              Quote: Nikolai S.
              an uninhabited tank tower? Is the translation accurate? BUT where is she, except for Armata?

              Look:
              In the series.

              Experienced samples:



              Therefore, I am writing about the M1128.
          2. Eugene-Eugene
            3 May 2021 13: 55
            +2
            They are not dead, they will be the main mass for another hundred years, along with 113 and the Strikers. Otherwise, a breakthrough is needed at the level of creating a colony on Mars.
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 3 May 2021 14: 23
              -1
              Stryker is clear for a long time to come. A modern platform, in terms of protection level, wheeled vehicles with 27 tons are beginning to compete with it.
              M113 is also dead, in normal armies they are written off or written off, they remain only as engineering vehicles that will not even be allowed close to the front line.

              The version of the lightweight Stryker + Tr with a tower from the M1128 is generally afloat.
              1. Eugene-Eugene
                3 May 2021 16: 29
                -1
                Can I vomit
                1. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 3 May 2021 16: 30
                  +1
                  Quote: Eugene-Eugene
                  Can I vomit

                  I allow.
                  1. Eugene-Eugene
                    3 May 2021 16: 37
                    -1
                    they arranged safaris on amphibians, they shot down children, I remember. And wait, "princes-protectors". How can you deserve this - you are greeted with flowers, back too.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 3 May 2021 09: 14
    +2
    Serious design work must be carried out in order to satisfy the wishes of such a "customer"!
  • demiurg
    demiurg 3 May 2021 11: 13
    +1
    If you remove the turret from an ordinary T-72, the hull, even with a relic, will weigh 20 tons. Attach a tower from the Octopus to the T-72, additionally reserve it and increase the UVN in both directions. We will perfectly fit into the desired weight. We have a lot of T-72s.
    1. Eugene-Eugene
      3 May 2021 11: 59
      0
      UNHABITABLE tower
    2. Alf
      Alf 3 May 2021 17: 53
      +1
      Quote: demiurg
      Attach a tower from the Octopus to the T-72, book it additionally

      And get the same T-72.
  • CastroRuiz
    CastroRuiz 3 May 2021 11: 36
    +2
    With an invitation to use in the mountains, the engine must be turbocharged.
    1. Eugene-Eugene
      3 May 2021 16: 20
      -2
      aglymrpolalddvd
      1. CastroRuiz
        CastroRuiz 3 May 2021 20: 17
        +1
        Is he sneering? This is Google translation.
  • Oleg Olkha
    Oleg Olkha 3 May 2021 12: 27
    +1
    https://elbitsystems.com/pr-new/elbit-systems-awarded-172-million-contract-to-supply-light-tanks-to-a-country-in-asia-pacific/ Есть уже и первый контракт на 172 миллиона долл. (батальон) для Филиппин, 30 тонных лёгких танков со 105 мм. орудием в модуле Elbit Systems. со всеми наворотами. 25 т. для них, это обосновано чем то принципиальным, по воздуху перебрасывают в горы и не могут больше поднять?
  • vetta
    vetta 3 May 2021 12: 46
    +3
    The whole world is arming
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 3 May 2021 12: 57
    +2
    The question is how the Indians will formulate the TK.
  • ironic
    ironic 3 May 2021 15: 21
    +1
    The Indians want a mass grave on caterpillars. Their women have already given birth, they can. The Indians want a mass grave on caterpillars. Their women have already given birth, they can.
  • tarakan
    tarakan 3 May 2021 21: 43
    +2
    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    Quote: Nikolai S.
    an uninhabited tank tower? Is the translation accurate? BUT where is she, except for Armata?

    Look:
    In the series.

    Experienced samples:


    On the "striker" and reverse gear is not necessary, when firing a change of position)))
  • akims
    akims 4 May 2021 11: 36
    0
    Hindus are massively bent over from the crown. They even accepted the help of the Chinese. And they need tanks against China .... The forests are gone, everything has gone to the stake. But, the enemy remains the enemy. Despite the help
  • SiberianGun
    SiberianGun 4 May 2021 12: 42
    0
    An excellent opportunity for Russian tank building, but a very strange requirement of 20 tons - for modern LT this is an unrealistic mass. Therefore, the Octopus is called the ACS. He has almost no armor!
    If we compare the Octopus with the Chinese ZTQ-15, against which he will have to fight in the highlands, then the Octopus has no chance. The Chinese has armor and dynamic protection. Octopus has a more powerful cannon, yes, but you don't need a powerful cannon to kill Octopus! Therefore, for example, an uninhabited tower would be a big plus for the Octopus. The ZTQ-15 has a regular turret. Again, you have to look at everything in practice. Among other things, there are also various systems: guidance, control systems, thermal imagers, etc. With this, the Chinese are doing well, it seems that it is much better than the Octopus. In addition, the Chinese is much heavier: 33 tons in the database without additional booking. And the Octopus has poor vertical guidance angles, which can be solved by installing a new high uninhabited tower or even more interesting and simpler by installing a good ATGM module. ATGMs in the mountains can be interesting to shoot. But the Octopus also has additional benefits, such as the ability to swim.
    And yet, in any case, the Octopus is not a competitor to the ZTQ-15. It may be a good auxiliary tank, but against the ZTQ-15, the Indians need to buy something different.
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 5 May 2021 01: 36
    0
    Quote: ironic
    At least add human resources

    So far (!) Is good with resources.
    But daily 400 sick people and massive funeral fires can shorten Indian wishes and reduce arrogance.