Military Review

Russia - the beginning of the state


V. Vasnetsov "Oleg and the Magus"

This article will focus on the process of formation of early pre-state or potestary institutions and the factors behind their emergence in Eastern Europe.


At the turn of the XNUMXth - XNUMXth centuries. the unification of the tribes of Eastern Europe under the rule of the Russian clan took place, which marked the beginning of tectonic changes among the East Slavic tribes. This power for most of the tribal unions remained external and consisted only of tributes. Polyudye, most likely, was used only outside the territory of the “domain” of Rus. With the formation of a super-union of all tribes conquered by Russia, the formation of a squad takes place - as a military-police instrument standing above the tribal structures. Until that time, no squad among the tribal collectives of the Slavs did not exist. The prince becomes not only a military leader, but also the head of public authority.

This is not a monarchy or an early monarchy; there are still many centuries before its emergence in Russia.

Only the first pre-state and public supra-tribal institutions are emerging.

All European peoples at this stage of development were characterized by military expansion in order to seize wealth and slaves for glory and prestige:

“The wealth of neighbors arouses the greed of peoples, for whom the acquisition of wealth is already one of the most important goals in life. They are barbarians: robbery seems easier and even more honorable to them than creative work. "

Russia is drawing the tribes of Eastern Europe into long-distance campaigns for riches and tribute. Princes Oleg, Igor, Svyatoslav collect huge tribal militias for campaigns against Constantinople, Khazars and other neighbors. Rus makes raids-campaigns on the cities located on the Caspian Sea. Svyatoslav is fighting for Bulgaria with Byzantium. The heroic period of Svyatoslav enriched our history such catchphrases as

"We will not put the Russian land to shame, but we will lie down here with the bones, for the dead know no shame."

And to the proposal of the emperor of Byzantium John of Tzimiskes to resolve the dispute between the peoples by a duel, Svyatoslav honorably "worked out the objection", answering

“That he, they say, understands his own advantage better than the enemy,” wrote the Byzantine chronicler Skilitsa, “if the emperor does not want to live any longer, that is, tens of thousands of other ways to death; let him choose whichever he wants. "

Russia does not stop strengthening its power, waging wars for tribute against the opposing tribes of Eastern Europe. Every time after the death of the "great" Russian prince, naturally, there was an attempt to free himself.

Prince Igor, after the death of Oleg, again returns to the submission of the Drevlyans. He is killed in 945 by the Drevlyan tributaries, and Olga destroys the tribal nobility of the Drevlyans, including them in the Russian "domain". In 947 she set up graveyards along Msta and Luga, strengthening, as they would say today, the administrative supervision of the tributaries: Vody and all, Finno-Ugric tribes.

Prince Vladimir again conquered the Vyatichi, subordinate to his father, Prince Svyatoslav, however, they are fighting the Russian princes until the end of the 984th century. In XNUMX, the governor of Vladimir, Wolf Tail, defeated the Radimichs, conquered by the same Svyatoslav.

Everything that was captured in the raids and campaigns for tribute was obtained in the polyudye, the Rus were sold in different markets: "furs and wax, honey and slaves."

Trade and genus

An important component of the activities of the Rus were trade campaigns to Byzantium, Khazaria, Volga Bulgaria and further to the East. In the Middle Ages, long-distance trade was not the lot of individuals who "traveled" along different paths, but the business of squads and princes. Long-distance trade was an extremely rare and dangerous enterprise; Prince Svyatoslav himself could not break through the ambushes of the Pechenegs at the Dnieper rapids. Konstantin Porphyrogenitus writes about the same attacks during the drag, the Rus, attacked by the Khazars, after the march to the Caspian Sea, found themselves in the same situation.

During this period, no one traveled back and forth along the path "from the Varangians to the Greeks" or along other, similar routes, "from the Varangians to the Bulgars" or "from the Varangians to the Germans", outside the armed caravan of ships organized by such strong structures as Russian genus.

Without understanding the psychology and mentality of the people of the early Russian Middle Ages, it will be very difficult for a modern person to understand the events of this period.

A man of a tribal period, like a small child, lived in a real and at the same time mythical world, where reality and "dreams", everything was mixed. Formidable warriors stepped up in front of mysticism, like the prophetic Oleg in the situation with a horse, sung in a poem by A.S. Pushkin.

N. Kochergin "Song of the Prophetic Oleg"

Inanimate objects and beasts could act like intelligent creatures.

In such an environment, the clan was the only structure for the existence and protection of the individual, both from otherworldly forces and from the dangers of the surrounding world, the institution of blood feud provided this protection.

And the primitive economy had an absolute agrarian-consumer character, the land was a common property, inseparable from the clan, perhaps with its death. These ideas were illuminated by the unshakable sacred laws associated with the cosmography of a person, which was based on generic being. That is, a positive world order was seen as a family structure, and the structure and economy of a family were determined by such a vision of the world order.

Wealth was not a means of accumulation and acquisition. Coins, precious metals, jewelry obtained in the course of exchange ("trade") or war were, first of all: first of all, objects of sacrifice to gods or deities, secondly, objects of prestige, and only last of all objects of accumulation. The overwhelming majority of treasures in Eastern Europe were buried either in places from which it was impossible to extract them, or in the field, that is, they were not treasures hidden from enemies or thieves, although, of course, there were such, but sacrifices to the gods.

From the point of view of the material value of things, the exchange was not rational. Wealth meant the ability of its owner to give gifts to people dependent on him, for example, a squad, to arrange feasts for the entire community.

A strong, noble person, a leader was judged precisely by these qualities. The more generously the prince, boyar or noble man distributes wealth, the higher his status, the more knights and heroes he has in the squad.

This explains why the Rus merchants, according to Muslim writers, exchanged furs and slaves for glass beads for their wives. Prince Igor goes with a small squad on a dangerous campaign in the Drevlyansky land, because his squad is "naked and bare", and Prince Svyatoslav takes tribute from the Byzantines for the dead, for their family!

Prince Vladimir arranges city-wide feasts, thereby redistributing the surplus product, in modern terms, more evenly among the members of the Polyan community in Kiev.

Russia - the beginning of the state
M. Gorelik. Reconstruction of Russia. State Historical Museum. Moscow. Photo by the author

We should not be misled by formally borrowed institutions and terms from neighboring, more developed peoples, such as Khazaria or Byzantium. It was a form without the content that these states had (money, titles, etc.). So, Prince Vladimir is called the Russian Khagan by analogy with the Khazars.

Chasing Vladimir's silver coins from the same series as his casting silver spoons for the squad. They were just imitations, not full-fledged coins. Imitation, which is so important for all societies at this stage of development, for many peoples of all countries and continents.

Franks VI - VII centuries. under the Merovingians, the period of "military democracy", the Byzantine solidi were copied in detail as a sign of prestige and sovereignty, and not monetary exchange.

And here I would like to once again draw attention to the fact that the land had no value as such, that is, there is no need to talk about any early feudalism or the like - the most important riches were only treasures and attributes of military valor and glory. I will consider the problem of feudalism and modern interpretations of this period in more detail in a separate work.

The princes had villages in which they kept and bred horses and hunting birds. Moreover, the number of such farms was minimal. Simply put, if there were land holdings of the "nobility", there would be no one to cultivate them: the population consisted of free communes, slavery was of a patriarchal nature. With the emergence of the supra-tribal structure of the Rus, the slave also became an object of foreign trade and ransom.

There can be no question of any large-scale farming during this period.

The surplus product was formed through military violence: tributes, the seizure of slaves and treasures, and was replenished only by war, and the exchange was external in nature with peoples who produced luxury goods and prestige (weapon, jewelry, clothing, fabrics, wine, fruits), and which could only be obtained through the channels of state trade, as in the case of Byzantium.

V. Vasnetsov "Princess Olga"

It is the emergence of public power with its own military force (squad) and the involvement of huge masses of people in military enterprises remote from their places of residence, the emergence of wealth and the outlined material stratification of a primitive society - under the influence of these phenomena, the corrosion of the tribal system begins, which develops into a crisis. Family relations are still quite strong, they begin to collapse by the end of the XNUMXth century under the influence of external factors.

The old gods can no longer protect the ancestral foundations; at the same time, potestary institutions are only being formed and are in their infancy.

The Germanic tribes were at the same stage, but in the period preceding the worldwide migration of peoples in the XNUMXth century, which became an impulse for a change in the social structures of the Germans.

The pre-class society of the Germans consisted of free, noble and ordinary members of the community, more and less wealthy, in the absence of private ownership of land. A squad has already emerged from the Germanic tribal society. But she, like slaves, were not the harbingers of the formation of early feudal (class) relations, it was a pre-class society.

After the death of Prince Svyatoslav in 972 at the hands of the Pechenegs, there was not long peace among his sons: during the clashes, Vladimir won, supported by the Slovenes and the Scandinavian Varangians hired for mining.

After the capture of Kiev, Vladimir leads a "heroic" life. He collects tributes from the Lithuanian tribe of the Yatvingians, the White Croats in the Carpathians, and returns the Vyatichi and Radimichi tribes to dependence on Russia. He fights with the Poles and Bulgars (Volga Bulgaria on the territory of modern Tatarstan).

But it is probably no coincidence that immediately after Vladimir captured Kiev, he creates a pantheon of gods, and we come to an important stage in the destruction of the clan system among the Slavic tribes of Eastern Europe.

Embracing Faith: Why and How?

Why? The reason for the adoption of the faith, or the strengthening of the ideological principle on the vast territory of the super-union in Eastern Europe, was the problem of centrifugal tendencies and the threat of the fall of the power of the Kiev Rus over the occupied territories, which did not stop trying to get away from tributary dependence on Russia.

The Slavs were pagans. They worshiped animals (totemism), stones, groves, etc. (fetishism), gods and gods. Each Slavic tribe, by the way, like the Greek tribes of the "heroic" period, and the Scandinavians in the XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries, had exclusively tribal gods: the Obodrit, Western Slavs, had Redegast, the Polabs had the goddess Zhiva, Prove at the Vagrs, at the Slovenes of the Ilmen - Volos.

The composition of the pantheon still raises many questions and conflicting conclusions among historians. It is important that regardless of the origin of these deities at this stage, they were all Slavic.

In 981, Vladimir in a pagan temple installed Horst, Stribog, Dazhdbog, Simargl, Makosh and Perun, the god of thunder and the Rus, the ruling clan and the ruling military-social community. Stribog is the main deity of many Slavic tribes, he is also Rod or Svyatovit, Svarog is the ancestor god, the father of Dazhdbog. Dazhdbog - "white light", an analogue of the Greek Apollo. Makosh is a female deity, "mother of the harvest", "mother earth", an analogue of the Greek Demeter. Simargl is the guardian of crops, shoots, he is associated with Makosh and is a messenger between heaven and earth. And Khors is the sun god, analogous to the Greek Helios.

Such a strange and incomprehensible selection can only be explained by the fact that the gods were from the Russian land proper, that is, from the territory in the south of Eastern Europe, which was occupied by the Russian clan with a personal god of a kind - the thunderer Perun. The pantheon did not include the gods of the tributary tribes, for example, Volos, the god of cattle, wealth and the other world, Ilmenian Slovenes. Together with the creation of the pantheon in Kiev, pagan deities are also located in the conquered territories. As a result, Kiev was supposed to become a sacred center, in addition to the administrative one, which is absolutely natural for tribal thinking. Therefore, the uncle of Prince Vladimir Dobrynya installed the idol of Perun in Novgorod. To enhance the power and significance of the new pantheon, an act of human sacrifice was carried out.

Vladimir with the elders and boyars, representatives of the Kiev community, decided to make a human sacrifice to idols. It is symbolic that the lot fell on the Christian Varangian.

The ritual of human sacrifice, characteristic of this stage of development, was practiced throughout the 945th century, even Prince Igor in XNUMX was sacrificed by the Drevlyans in a sacred grove.

An attempt to create a pan-Slavic pantheon in order to strengthen the super-union failed, and Prince Vladimir "with his boyars and elders of Gradsk" from 986 began a search for "faith" among neighboring peoples at higher stages of development in order to consolidate the power of force.

How? The chronicler, naturally, writes about the "choice of faith" in a Christian edifying vein. In this story, the late edition is also clearly visible, in which there is a mention of German Catholics, because at the end of the XNUMXth century. there was no such discord between the western and eastern churches, although friction had already begun.

Perhaps the adoption of Christianity from the West, "from the Germans," was prevented by the conspiracy of Prince Svyatopolk, who reigned in Turov. It was attended by the German Reinbern, bishop of Kolberg (the city of Kolobrzeg, Poland, formerly the territory of the Western Slavs).

So, during the "consideration of faith" Judaism was rejected due to the fact that the Jews did not have a state, Islam due to "lack of joy in religion," as Prince Vladimir said:

"The merriment of Russia is piti, it cannot be without it."

As we noted above, the Russian princes (or chroniclers-"editors") were the authors of more than one catch phrase.

And, finally, it was the beauty of the temples and the faith of God of the Byzantine empire - the Romans that stunned the pagans of Eastern Europe:

“Every person, once he tastes something sweet, will no longer take a bitter one!”

Such a formal worship of the beauty of temples to modern people may seem strange, if you do not take into account the mentality of people of the tribal system.

Another formal reason, from a modern point of view, and objective for the people of that period, in favor of adopting Christianity was that Vladimir's grandmother, Princess Olga, was a Christian. And the choice was made.

A. Ivanov "Baptism of Prince Vladimir in Korsun"

There are several options for how, in fact, Prince Vladimir personally accepted the faith. There remains a debatable question: before or after the campaign to Korsun - Chersonesos and where? In Kiev, near Kiev or in Korsun? It is impossible to give a clear answer to this question.

And the trip to Kherson itself raises questions. And this campaign had little to do with the adoption of faith and was caused by the same "thirst for riches."

As happened more than once in the Byzantine history with Chersonesos, this city often sided with the opponents of the Constantinople rulers. This time he supported the opponents of Vasily II, the future famous Vasily the Bolgar fighter. The power of the porphyry emperor was in a precarious position and he needed the help of the Russians in the Crimea.

But, as usual, the Russians, taking advantage of the situation, decided to gain a foothold in the Crimea, blackmailing Byzantium with this, and Vasily II was forced to negotiate. He confirmed the previous allied and trade treaties and gave for Prince Vladimir his sister Anna, promised to the German emperor Otto III.

According to the German annalist Titmar, it was Anna, the bride of Emperor Otto III, given to Vladimir, who persuaded him to accept the Christian faith. Vasily "received" - returned his own city of Kherson, captured by Prince Vladimir, and, what was most important in this treaty for Vasily, the Russian allied corps.

Oddly enough, and what we wrote about above, the baptism of Russia passed unnoticed in Byzantine sources. Because the arrival of the Russian corps dramatically changed the situation in favor of Vasily II, ensuring his victory over the usurpers and the safety of the throne. And this political event overshadowed the baptism of the "dews", which was less relevant for Byzantium.

It should be emphasized that Vladimir, in the baptism of Vasily, became a zealous Christian. He, like many converted princes of the "barbarians", was deeply imbued with the new Faith. Upon his return from a campaign in the Crimea, Vladimir dealt with the pagan temple in Kiev. The baptism of the Kievites, which should be especially emphasized, was voluntary, but in the other territories subject to Kiev, this event took place in different ways.

"Baptism of Kiev"

This process was not easy, but often bloody in most European countries that adopted Christianity. The Franks baptized, at the same time turning the tribes of the Saxons into their tributaries. Olaf Tryggvi (963-1000) and the "eternal king of Norway" St. Olaf (995-1030) tortured during baptism, burned farms and fought with pagans, in the end both died in this struggle. The baptism of the Western Slavs and Lithuanian tribes of the Prussians went hand in hand with German colonization, the destruction of the nobility of these tribes and assimilation.

The death of the "old gods" led to the death of the clan as a structure, to the loss of the power of the clan elite, which also had sacred power, to the emergence of new political relations and the strengthening of the power of supra-tribal structures and the end of the clan system.

It was not for nothing that Prince Vladimir ordered the children of the clan nobility, a deliberate child, to be taken from families and taught to read and write: mothers cried about them as if they were dead.

Let us repeat: the adoption of faith for the Kiev community meant the strengthening of hegemony and ideological superiority over other tribes subordinate to Russia, who looked at this process in a completely different way.

Novgorodians gathered at the veche and decided to defend the old faith. Then the princely comrades-in-arms attacked them, Dobrynya fought, and Putyata set fire to the city, which gave the preponderance of the supporters of Christianity. Archaeologists have identified the burnt area in Novgorod at 9 thousand square meters. m .:

"Putyata baptized with a sword, and Dobrynya with fire."

I. Glazunov "The Baptism of Novgorod"

But even in the XI century. paganism will exist on the territory of Eastern Europe, and not only on the periphery, the authorities will reckon with this, waging a struggle with the Magi-priests, as representatives of the outgoing structures.

In Russian science, both pre-revolutionary and Soviet, the prevailing view was that the reason for adopting the new faith was the desire to strengthen the princely one-man rule, the monarchical principle:

"One God in heaven, one king on earth."

But in the conditions of the tribal system and the rudiments of the state system, when the monarchical principle in state administration was not even visible, there is no need to talk about such reasons.

Do not confuse the monarchy as an institution and personal power ambitions, despotic inclinations of military leaders, harsh warrior princes of the period of "military democracy". The time of the XNUMXth century and the adoption of Christianity became the period of the beginning of the formation of the potestar structure, traditionally called the Old Russian state.


Russian princes, the Russian clan by force united the tribes in Eastern Europe around Kiev into a single super-union. Extremely amorphous and unstable potestary structure. In such conditions, consolidation was needed other than just brute military force or agreements with the tribal elite, if they were at all possible. An attempt to solve this issue by creating a pantheon of pagan gods failed.

In such conditions, the appeal to the faith of the Greek Empire, the supra-tribal faith of not Rus, Polyans or Slovenes, contributed to the stabilization of society and the consolidation of Kiev's hegemony at a different level.

The decision to accept the faith was not made personally by the Russian prince, and this could not be within the framework of this society. This process involves the boyars and elders of the city, representatives of not only the squad, but also, most likely, the Polyan tribe. The need to adopt a new faith was associated not with the formation of monarchism in Russia, but with the establishment of the hegemony of one community with the center in Kiev among other tribes. And the supra-tribal religion contributed to this.

The new religion, as one of the political instruments of subordination, hardly took root among the peoples or tribes of tributaries. But its clear ideological design, extremely attractive external surroundings, mercy and protection, as a principle for everyone without exception during the period of weakening of tribal security - all this, supported by the church structure, which in principle did not exist in Eastern Europe before, did its job.

Christianization will acquire a completely different scale and significance when the lands begin to leave the hegemony of "Rus", but more on that below.

Thus, Christianity became an important ideological setting for the period of disintegration of tribal structures and the transition to a territorial community, the transition from a tribal formation to early public state forms.

Vladimir, like his sons, completely sincerely acquired a new faith and began to act in a Christian way, often the way they understood it. The prince, living, as the chronicler writes in the fear of God, did not judge the robbers. The bishops pointed out to the prince that he was put on trial according to the Law of God, that he should punish the wicked and pardon the weak, and he began to execute the robbers.

But this did not correspond to tribal customs, and again the bishops and elders - the leaders of the urban community, noticed that for crimes one can take a vira (fine) to buy equipment for the war against nomads.

And since the 90s of the X century. the threat from the steppe seriously increased and became an important factor that constantly influenced the primitive economy of ancient Russia. Vladimir built fortifications against the steppe and recruited warriors in the north of the country, hired Varangians.

The sending of children of the tribal elite to school, the movement of warriors from the north, their sending to the allied Byzantium, the appearance of robbers, the emergence of a supra-tribal and supra-tribal system of government and ideology that has an external source - all these scant chronicles speak of a crisis in the tribal system.

Because the "stable" and conservative clan formation was an important period in the life of the Slavic and East Slavic ethnos, a pre-state stage. But the imbalances that arose under the influence of external factors served to destroy it and move to a new, more progressive stage in the development of productive forces.

List of historical sources and literature:

PVL. Text preparation, translation, articles and comments by D. S. Likhachev. SPB., 1996.
Skylitsa about the war with Russia by the emperor Nicephorus Phocas and John Tzimiskes. Translation by S. A. Ivanov / Supplement /
Leo the Deacon. History. M., 1988.
Saxon Annalist. Chronicles 741-1139. Translated from lat. And comments. I.V. Dyakonov. M., 2012.
Adam of Bremen, Helmold from Bosau, Arnold of Lubeck Slavonic chronicles. M., 2011.
Successor of Theophanes. Biography of the Byzantine kings. Ed. Prepared by Ch. N. Lyubarsky. SPb., 2009.
Laurentian Chronicle. PSRL. T.I. M., 1997.
Titmar from Merseburg. Chronicles in 8 books. Translation by I.V. Dyakonova M., 2005.
Gurevich A. Ya. Selected Works. T.1. Ancient Germans. Vikings. M. - SPb., 1999.
Lebedev A.P. Essays on the internal history of the Byzantine Eastern Church in the 2012th, XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries. SPb., XNUMX.
Pirenne A. Medieval city and the revival of trade. Bitter. 1941.
Le Goff J. Civilization of the Medieval West. M., 1992.
Sakharov A. N. Diplomacy of Svyatoslav. "International relationships". M., 1982.
Tolochko P.P. Early Russia: history and archeology. Russian-Baltic Information Center "Blitz". SPb., 2013.
Froyanov I. Ya. Kievan Rus. The main features of the socio-economic system. SPb., 1999.
Froyanov I. Ya. Ancient Russia. M.-SPb., 1995.
Froyanov I. Ya. Slavery and tributary. SPb. 1996.

Articles from this series:

Eastern Slavs - the beginning of history
What is Russia

To be continued ...
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  1. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 3 May 2021 05: 46
    Interesting reading. Particularly interesting are the moments where it is described how lawfully and voluntarily Russia accepted the Faith - with fire and sword. Some well-known people have correctly noted the impression that a gang of "Losers" was operating in history.
    However, the author's summary:
    Because the “stable” and conservative tribal formation was an important period in the life of the Slavic and East Slavic ethnos, a pre-state stage. But the imbalances that arose under the influence of external factors served as its destruction and transition to a new one, a more progressive stage in the development of the productive forces.

    Places all dots above the "i". It turns out that everything is banal and primitive. The number of those who divide and rule is growing, and, consequently, the needs of this clan are growing. Neither gentes nor tribes are no longer suitable for an organized and harmonious productive force. What to produce? When to produce? What size and quality? A state must be created. Again, there are few options - one. Slave-owning. But it is outdated and does not fit, because the authorities need competent manufacturers capable of operating mechanisms. What, in vain did Archimedes try to create his machines?
    Therefore, at the beginning of the twentieth century, it was not an easy decision for the world's first socialist country to separate religion from the state. How many religious celebrations are invented? You have to plow and sow, but here ... Just imagine that if the citizens of Russia began to observe everything that they say on the Soyuz channel, the entire economy would collapse to hell.
    And the beginning was laid by Dobrynya and Putyatya ... They were good people ... And, most importantly, ordinary citizens of the country did everything to their own detriment. They did not acquire anything except the right to bend their backs to:

    What a glorious purchase! And, apparently, purely voluntary ...
  2. Richard
    Richard 3 May 2021 06: 01
    Kievans were baptized in the Pochayna River, a tributary of the Dnieper
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 3 May 2021 08: 05
      Good morning, Dmitriy!
      Such a complex topic on Monday morning! am
      1. Richard
        Richard 3 May 2021 08: 26
        Greetings, Alexander hi
        Such a complex topic on Monday morning!

        Too complicated for someone smile
        Therefore, he did not find what to argue and did not enter into a debate, he simply anonymously minus all my comments. Yes, at the same time, yours with Vidas and Vyacheslav
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 3 May 2021 08: 37
          You can argue, but that will be my opinion. And the main thing is that our ancestors are portrayed as somehow flawed. Those. all is well around, but ours are stuck in a tribal society with their idols. And they don't want to accept the progressive! They only live on robbery and money is stamped out of boredom and imitated.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 3 May 2021 08: 53
            Hi Sasha, now I will send you something, wait! wink
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 3 May 2021 09: 11
              Received. So you also need to read it!
          2. Edward Vashchenko
            3 May 2021 09: 42
            Dear Alexander,
            the view that our ancestors got stuck somewhere is flawed.
            We did not get stuck anywhere, this is the cycle, we followed the historical path of development, similar in all Western languages ​​of the Indo-Europeans. It's just that each language group embarked on this path at one time.
            I already wrote about who is cooler, who was born in 1900 or 1950 or 1989?
            I will say more than I will write about in articles about later periods, within the framework of geography and "geopolitics" (I don’t like this word), in which the Eastern Slavs found themselves, as a result achieved more than "related" ethnic groups in more favorable conditions.

            It is a gross mistake, of all those who like to make our history old, to attribute stainless steel armor to Russian heroes in the old era, that they run ahead of a steam locomotive or gallop ahead of a horse.

            With a stainless steel or victorious, we have succeeded in due time, but ... in due time, becoming the most advanced Civilization in history.
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 3 May 2021 10: 44
              Good afternoon, Edward!
              I will answer for one thing and Dmitry.
              I do not question the events described. Moreover, I am not "lengthening" the history of the Eastern Slavs.
              But you must agree that the community that "built" all the neighbors, incl. and the Second Rome must be numerous in terms of human resources and strong economically.
              "The surplus product was formed through military violence: tributes, the seizure of slaves and treasures, and was replenished only by war" (c) And only?
              "The princes had villages in which they kept and bred horses and hunting birds. Moreover, the number of such farms was minimal. (C) According to the author, it turns out that everyone lived in cities? This quote contradicts the thesis that" the land was a common property. "
              It is difficult to imagine that our ancestors were not engaged in agriculture and animal husbandry, how did they live before the described period?
              You write, the chronicler describes everything in a “edifying Christian key.” That's right. Those. he describes the events as the church wants to present it to us. Then let's mention the revenge of Princess Olga, especially in its fourth version.
              If our ancestors worshiped their gods, then it was fine with them and for the time being they lived in hormone with themselves and the world around them. And I certainly do not believe that "a person of the tribal period is like a small child .."
              I got the impression after reading that our ancestors lived in some kind of vacuum, although this is not so.
              They minted money, but "wealth was not a means of accumulation and acquisition" ...
              The author mentioned the veche as a body of power in Novgorod, but in Kiev it was not?
              I have already written that it is unlikely that we will find out the real reason for baptism, although it would be very interesting.
              Do not take my comment as criticism. These are the questions to which I have not received an answer and this does not apply to your article.
              I can be accused that I am not a historian and know little. I am not a historian and I think that I know little, but if what is written contradicts common sense, then something does not converge.
              1. Edward Vashchenko
                3 May 2021 14: 05
                good day.
                Do not take my comment as criticism.

                In no case!!!!
                About Veche, you are right, but everything is in order, Veche was everywhere.
                About this in the next article.
                About Princess Olga and her "executions" or ancestral revenge, everything is true, but in a small format I cannot list all the events, there are whole volumes about this.
                I briefly mentioned earlier about the surplus product, tribal society - agrarian-consumer, about agriculture and agriculture, but in the forests, when colonization took place in many clans, of course the surplus product is formed only on the path of war.
                Additional surplus product laughing
                In general, I agree with you, everything is so, it's just that you can't fit everything into a small article.
                What is especially important, and this is a fundamental moment, society develops from a tribal to a neighboring community, and this is the next stage of development, without taking this into account, we will continue to look for a forest in three pines. This is by no means addressed to you, but a necessary historical approach.
                Yours faithfully,
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 May 2021 05: 30
                  Thank you Edward for the article! Stumbled upon her by accident with the filing of comrades.
                  The surplus product was formed through military violence: tribute, the seizure of slaves and treasures, and was replenished only by war, and the exchange was external in nature with peoples who produced luxury goods and prestige (weapons, jewelry, clothing, fabrics, wine, fruits), and which can was obtained only through the channels of state trade, as in the case of Byzantium.

                  On my own I would add that the presence of the institute "polyudye" speaks of the symbiosis of tax and trade relations in the early proto-state. Moreover, they were unique, when at the same time the prince and the squad fed, collected tribute, traded and exercised power (judicial) powers. Moreover, the route and distances are admirable.
                  Konstantin Bogryanorodny also enters into a dilemma with you, who describes the trade in monuskils and slaves. Agreements with Constantinople about Russian merchants. Also out of your narrative.
                  My personal opinion, with the appearance of Olga's graveyards, became the last and sufficient stroke in the formation of the Old Russian state.
                  1. Edward Vashchenko
                    4 May 2021 18: 50
                    Vladislav greetings,
                    Indeed, the version that you describe, that the classical approach to the formation of the Old Russian state, is, so to speak, the views of B.D. Grekov and his school, and of those school textbooks that we all studied in the Union.
                    Polyudye is a mechanism found among many peoples, about this there is a generalizing work by Kobishchanov, the closest description of his analogue, among the Norwegians in the "Circle of the Earth".
                    This is not a mechanism of a potestary society that is far from the state. Comes from another well-known phenomenon, a gift, an endowment. When the chief literally feeds on what moves from settlement to settlement, eats and receives tribute.
                    Olga's graveyards, which, again, Grekov considered, were an instrument of state building, I.Ya. Froyanov considered specifically, based on the text of the chronicle, namely, the establishment of tributes exclusively on Luga and Msta, in the habitats of tributaries, Finno-Ugric tribes.
                    In this case, DA Avdusin saw in the description of Konstantin Porphyrogenitus a curiosity, and not a common thing, not for nothing, as I wrote about, a hike on the way from the "Varangians to the Greeks" is not a ride back and forth of merchants, but a stern enterprise of a large armed contingent Rus. On this path, in general, Svyatoslav himself died.
                    Simply put, in the classical sense of the word, the state is still very far from here. All these are times of test systems.
                    But traditionally and, for reasons not scientific, but political, all this is called "the formation of the ancient Russian state."
                    Yours faithfully,
                    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 May 2021 00: 48
                      Good night Edward!
                      I had to read about the newest trends of our luminaries of history. In principle, an early approach to the creation of the Old Russian state "with the vocation of the Rurikovich" is described by the pre-revolutionary Yushchenko in his "History of State and Law".
                      Now I propose to start by defining what the state is.
                      Especially, so as not to be accused of bias, I will take the first thing I get from Vicki.
                      The state is a political form of organization of society in a certain territory, a political-territorial sovereign organization of public power, which has an apparatus of government and coercion, to which the entire population of the country is subject.

                      Now let's look at the "markers" of the term.
                      1. Political form of organization of society.
                      2. The presence of its territory.
                      3. The presence of political institutions and the form of their recognition, both internal and external.
                      4. Sovereignty.
                      5. The presence of the apparatus of control and coercion. Although further about the strict obedience to him (the apparatus) of the whole country raises only a smile. This has not happened in history and will never happen, but as agreed, he took the first thing that lay on the surface. Although it would be easier and more interesting for me to operate with a term from the dictionaries of Yagafarov, Alekseev and Karasev.
                      And now we are looking at when our fatherland has accumulated a full set of "markers".
                      First. The political form of the organization of society. Consists of three signs. The form of government, the form of government. The presence of socio-economic prerequisites and the beginning of the formation of a single integration system.
                      The point of the report, if we are based on the PVL, the Cambridge anonym and the note of Konstantin Porphyrogenitus, we acquire the federal form of state structure "the union of tributary tribes" even under the ruler Oleg and Prince Igor. The monarchical form of government is consolidated during the transfer of the inheritance from Igor to his son Svyatoslav. The emergence of the prerequisites for unified socio-economic institutions Eduard you refer to the beginning of the reign of Vladimir or even Yaroslav Vladimirovich. The question is complex. The most extreme date in our case is the appearance of Yaroslav's Russian Truth. Earlier dates are controversial, although on this basis almost all the city-states of Hellas, the "Kingdom of the Scythians", not to mention the dark ages of Europe can be ruined. Especially the North.
                      Second. Territory. Reliably the seizure of the land of the Krivichi (Smolensk) and the territory of the meadows (Kiev) by the ruler Oleg.
                      Third. Political institutions and the form of their recognition. Internal vocation of "Varangians", according to PVL victory over "Vadim". External - contracts (Oleg or Vladimir to choose from). Mention of the diplomatic mission of Princess Olga.
                      Fourth. Sovereignty. Ruler Oleg, Prince Igor, Princess Olga.
                      Fifth. Manadgement Department. Iron signs - the graveyards of Princess Olga. The institution of coercion - the squad (gridni, swordsmen, youths and the senior squad) even earlier.
                      The presence of its own production of coins, a single religion, trade relations - for disciplines, the history and theory of state and law are negligible.
                      Conclusions The Old Russian state accumulated 4 out of 5 statehood markers during the reign of Princess Olga. With the fifth, the presence of a single written normative act is all difficult, but he also appeared in the reign of Yaroslav.
                      If it is considered critical, then the history of many European and not only states will have to rule for centuries and decades, and a couple of dozen countries with a precedent judicial system will, in principle, have to be deleted from history. Just in order to avoid such incidents, jurists rely on the availability of judicial decisions of the institutions of public authority. We return to the PVL. The first judicial decision described in it is the murder of Askold and Dir by the ruler Oleg.
                      Now my personal conclusion about the formation of statehood in our Fatherland. I can’t resist breaking stereotypes. Drum roll - Since gaining independence from the Tatar-Mongol yoke in 1482. Remember marker 4 - sovereignty. We have lost it for more than two centuries. They wiped away a tear, about the "star temple", "reckoning since the creation of the world", forgot about the "bicycles of ancient ukrov" and super duper-Aryan-Slavs-Rus. "
                      The Old Russian proto-state learned a minimum of its signs during the reign of Olga, maximum with the coming to power of Yaroslav.
                      Well, somewhere like that. Edward is my personal invention. I sincerely look forward to continuing your cycle. The only trouble is that I shy away like the devil from incense from the loud headlines about the Slavs. Had negative feelings about a number of articles on VO!
                      Thank you again for your work, respectfully Vladislav.
                      If you get it wrong, scold the night with us, I'm a bainki.
                      1. Edward Vashchenko
                        5 May 2021 19: 29
                        Good evening!
                        Of course, the sequel will be, a little boring, not about hikes and captures, but just about hewn systems laughing

                        Yours faithfully,
                      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 May 2021 19: 38
                        I will look forward to Edward! Since 2012, I have not touched on this topic, leaving several controversial and unresolved issues for myself. In this connection, I read your works with sincere ecstasy.
            2. vladcub
              vladcub 3 May 2021 16: 15
              "I think I know little" - not everyone can admit it. As a rule: the "hamster tribe" is confident that it knows the history well
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 3 May 2021 17: 12
                Good afternoon!
                Edward outlined his version of how the Russian state was born. This is his vision. He believes that the unifying was the adoption of Christianity.
                Maybe. Planting faith with "fire and sword" is possible, but not productive. It is more effective to do this so that the person himself wants to be baptized, i.e. economically. And including "And if they don’t take it, we will turn off the gas!"
                And the most important thing is that the unification benefits everyone, especially the weak.
        2. Richard
          Richard 3 May 2021 09: 43
          the main thing is that our ancestors are portrayed as somehow flawed. Those. everything is fine around, but ours are stuck in a tribal society with their idols

          Why flawed? Exactly the same as all other peoples
          The tribal society was doomed by the very temporal course of history - natural population growth, as well as intra-tribal and inter-territorial migration to new lands suitable for farming, hunting, etc. All peoples have gone through this. And all nations had idols. We are no better here and no worse than the rest.
          A small example - the chronicles of Avar of the 14th century describe my ancestors, the first Greben Cossacks of grandfather Uray, as follows:
          "They scour the neighborhood like wolves, looking for something to profit from, robbing the surrounding villages, stealing girls and going to war with the Circassians and Alans for prey. they are engaged - according to their laws, death is for this. They live in caves and dugouts. And they are ruled by the elders whom they choose for themselves.

          And why should I be ashamed of that? Yes, not at all.
          It was? It was. Since then, a lot of water has flowed under the bridge and many generations have changed. For that, now the Stavropol Territory is one of the main granaries of Russia.
          Was there a fact in the history of pagan Russia adopted Christianity?
          Was. Forcibly or amicably, no one will say for sure. The chronicles you know very well by whom and under whose supervision they were written. Somewhere it passed peacefully, somewhere with blood.
          Here Edward also writes about it. IMHO, it is too early to judge this article, it is not over. Let's wait for the continuation, and then we will draw a conclusion.
          Best regards
        3. bk0010
          bk0010 3 May 2021 10: 40
          Quote: ee2100
          And the main thing is that our ancestors are portrayed as somehow flawed. Those. all is well around, but ours are stuck in a tribal society with their idols. And they don't want to accept the progressive!
          The rate of emergence of states, IMHO, was determined by population density. There were many river banks in Russia, there were few people, there was no point in leaving the tribal system (no one wants to feed the parasites).
  3. knn54
    knn54 3 May 2021 16: 03
    -Vladimir's governor, Wolf Tail, defeated the Radimichs, conquered by the same Svyatoslav.
    Almost the only Varangian who did not support the attempt of the governor Svaneld to put his son Lot on the throne of Russia.
    -the land was of no value per se
    The proverb has rather old roots: "The earth does not rich, but humpback".
    -Therefore, the uncle of Prince Vladimir Dobrynya installed the idol of Perun in Novgorod.
    Dobrynya was the first to come to the idea of ​​baptizing Russia with the aim of uniting the state and not being a "black sheep" in Europe.
    In addition, the Magi had considerable authority among the people, which also did not suit him.
    It is believed that Orthodoxy Dobrynya chose the following reason:
    The emperors of Byzantium were ALWAYS above the Church, and the Catholic emperors were dependent on the Vicar of God on Earth, the Pope ... He did not want to be a vassal.
    Dobrynya and baptized Novgorod.
  4. Pavel Vladimirov
    Pavel Vladimirov 4 May 2021 02: 19
    In the Black Sea, they were already baptized.
  • Richard
    Richard 3 May 2021 06: 02
    In Rostov, the bishop was not accepted, and there the new faith spread much more slowly than elsewhere, and with great difficulty. Perhaps the reason lies in the ethnic composition of the local population: a considerable part of the Rostov land was occupied by the Finno-Ugric tribes, who everywhere showed greater resilience in paganism than the Slavic ones.
    The baptism of Rus as a whole dragged on for several centuries - in 1024 Yaroslav the Wise suppressed the uprising of the Magi in the Vladimir-Suzdal land (a similar uprising was repeated in 1071; at the same time in Novgorod the Magi opposed Prince Gleb), Rostov was baptized only at the end of the XNUMXth century, and in Murom, the resistance of the pagans to the new faith continued until the XNUMXth century.
    The Vyatichi tribe remained in paganism longer than all the Slavic tribes. Their enlightener in the XNUMXth century was the Monk Kuksha, the Monk of the Caves, who was martyred with them.
  • Richard
    Richard 3 May 2021 06: 06
    The baptism of the prince and his squad was followed by a mass baptism of residents of the largest cities, primarily Kiev and Novgorod, organized by the state authorities. In the first years after baptism (no later than 997), there was the establishment in the Old Russian state of a metropolitanate with a center in Kiev, subordinate to the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Simultaneously with the metropolitanate, at least three dioceses were established in it: in Novgorod, in Belgorod in Kiev, and also, probably, in Polotsk and / or Chernigov. The first bishops were the Greeks. In accordance with the church tradition (which took root no earlier than the XNUMXth century), the first metropolitan of Kiev is considered to be St. Michael, however, Byzantine sources suggest that the first metropolitan was Theophylact, who was transferred to Russia from the Sevastian Metropolitanate (northeast of Asia Minor).
    Since the 990s. in Russia, a wooden church building is being developed. According to "Praise to Prince Vladimir" (1040s), written by the future Metropolitan Hilarion, the first monasteries arose under Vladimir. In the years 995–996. in Kiev, the first stone Church of the Tithes was consecrated, which probably served as a princely palace cathedral. With the consecration of this church, ancient Russian sources associate the measures of state power for the material support of the church organization: a tenth of the total princely income was to be deducted for its needs - the tithe, which was collected at the Tithe Church. The consequence of the baptism of Rus in the legislative area was the division according to the Byzantine model of princely and ecclesiastical (metropolitan, episcopal) jurisdictions, which is Old Russian. tradition also dates back to the time of reign. Vladimir Svyatoslavich. In the sphere of ecclesiastical law, there were marriage and family relations, crimes against morality, the trial of clergy and members of their families, etc. All these establishments were reflected in the princely statutes of the X-XII centuries
  • Richard
    Richard 3 May 2021 06: 20
    Edward hi
    I would like to know your competent opinion about the so-called first (Fotiev, or Askoldov) baptism of Rus, which allegedly took place more than 100 years before Prince Vladimir, in the XNUMXth century. How does he feel about him? Is there any written Greek evidence of this? And what can you read about this topic?
    Best regards
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      3 May 2021 09: 17
      Dmitry, I greet you,
      yes this is an amazing topic.
      The "Continuer of Theophanes" writes about this, the translation into Russian was published by the "Aleteya" publishing house, I refer to this work. And, now forgot, Patriarch Photius in the message.
      For all we know, the comments indicate the strangeness of this baptism being forgotten.
      But, as we know from the history of other peoples, this happens quite often, for example, it concerns the Serbs and Croats, information about two baptisms. the same Norwegians.
      Yours faithfully,
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 3 May 2021 15: 57
      It's new to me that there was another baptism
  • SVD68
    SVD68 3 May 2021 07: 17
    Very good!
    The author correctly defines that Ancient Russia was not yet a state, but was a tribal union with copying the external forms of neighboring states. And then very many confuse.
    By the way, Sparta was also not a city-state, but was a tribal union.
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 3 May 2021 07: 42
      Quote: SVD68
      Very good!
      The author correctly defines that Ancient Russia was not yet a state, but was a tribal union with copying the external forms of neighboring states. And then very many confuse.
      By the way, Sparta was also not a city-state, but was a tribal union.

      The only thing that needs to be well understood is that Sparta is the 2000th century BC, and the article deals with the XNUMXth century AD. There are almost XNUMX (two thousand!) Years between them. hi
      1. SVD68
        SVD68 3 May 2021 07: 44
        Quote: A. Privalov
        The only thing that needs to be well understood is that Sparta is the 2000th century BC, and the article deals with the XNUMXth century AD. There are almost XNUMX (two thousand!) Years between them.

        What is the significance of your understanding? And why is this the only thing that matters in this matter?
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 3 May 2021 11: 47
          Quote: SVD68
          What is the significance of your understanding? And why is this the only thing that matters in this matter?

          Understanding is not mine, not the only one, but important.
          The fact is that tribal relations of the times of Sparta differ from those of the times of the formation of Russia. On the chronological line, green approximately marks the time when Sparta has already risen, and orange, where the early Middle Ages is Russia.

          And the point here is not that Sparta was "bad" and Russia was "good", or vice versa. As the author of the article quite rightly noted in his comment: "everyone has their own time"... Just the experience of mankind by that time was already different. Not just states, but entire civilizations managed to be born and die, it would seem that here it is - the historical support for the beginning of rapid growth and powerful development ... But, alas ...

          Today we have two main hypotheses of the formation of the Old Russian state: "Norman" based on the "Tale of Bygone Years" of the XII century, numerous Western European and Byzantine sources, the results of research on onomastics and archeology, according to which it was created from outside by the Varangians led by the brothers Rurik, Sineus and Truvor in 862 or Rurik's relative Oleg, who captured Kiev in 882. (True, Klyuchevsky considered the Kiev Varangian principality of Askold and Dir, and not the Novgorod state of Rurik, to be the initial form of the Russian state.)

          At the same time, the "anti-Normanists" considered it impossible to bring statehood from outside and considered the emergence of the state as a stage in the internal development of society.
          Lomonosov is considered the founder of this theory in Russian historiography. He opposed the Norman theory of the origin of the Russian state. He refuted the opinion of a number of foreign historians about the backwardness of the ancient Russian people, concluding:
          "We have a lot of evidence that in Russia there was no great darkness of ignorance, which many external writers imagine."
          Lomonosov glorified Peter I, revealed his merits in the development of industry in Russia, trade, in the development of the bowels of the earth, in the creation of a regular army and navy, the spread of education, and overcoming the country's backwardness.

          Unfortunately, he was not a professional historian. However, his scientific research as a pioneer in Russian historical science and his publicistic works are extremely interesting.
          Lomonosov noted that as a result of the absence "A reliable description of the acts of the Russian" only
          “They have very little knowledge about how the state's boundaries grew, its power and fame grew, and“ since the existence of the Russian people was subjected to grave difficulties ”. So "the glorious name of the ancient Russian people is overshadowed", and "examples of courageous deeds and wise behavior ..." remain unknown. All this cannot but induce "ardent zeal for the fatherland" and calls to "help this disadvantage." "It is great to give immortality to a multitude of people with mortal and transitory labors, to observe meritorious deeds due glory and, carrying past deeds into posterity and into deep eternity, to unite those whom nature has divided by a long time."
      2. Edward Vashchenko
        3 May 2021 09: 26
        There is no problem here. Someone was born in 1900, someone in 1950, what can I say, everyone has their own time.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. depressant
          depressant 3 May 2021 21: 01
          Edward, I would not say so. Someone was lucky to be born in the warm climate of the fertile Mediterranean, while others got territories with a sharply continental climate and long cold winters. It's like presenting to the Yakuts, they say, why didn't you create your own state? Or the Chukchi. Here the Chinese have created, but you have not. But they look alike! The difference is that hardly anyone has seen at least one Chinese permanently living in the permafrost zone.
    2. Edward Vashchenko
      3 May 2021 09: 19
      By the way, Sparta was also not a city-state, but was a tribal union.

      Absolutely, the shape of the city-state as a "fortress" gradually takes shape from the pilots.
  • north 2
    north 2 3 May 2021 07: 44
    If we talk about the Baptism of Rus, then one must first take into account that before the Grand Duke Vladimir there was a choice, in which of the religions to baptize Rus. These thoughts of Vladimir are illustrated by the beautiful painting by Ivan Yegorovich Etting "Prince Vladimir chooses faith". A wonderful picture, it's strange why the author of the article did not remember it ...
    Four messengers from different religions came to Vladimir. The Mohammedan faith was proposed by the ambassadors of the Volga and Kama Bulgarians, but circumcision seemed a hateful rite, and the prohibition to drink wine was a reckless charter. It was to the Mohammedans that Vladimir answered that wine is fun for the Russians; we cannot be without it ... The ambassadors of German Catholics told Vladimir about greatness the invisible Almighty and the insignificance of idols. The prince answered them, go back, our fathers did not accept faith from the Pope. After listening to the Jews, Vladimir asked them where their homeland was. In Jerusalem, the Jewish preacher answered. But God, in his anger, scattered us into foreign lands. Vladimir answered them: “And you, punished by God, dare to teach others? We do not want, like you, to lose our Fatherland.” Finally, the nameless Philosopher, sent by the Greeks, refuting other Faiths in a few words, told Vladimir the entire content of the Bible, Old and New The covenant, the history of creation, paradise, sin, the first people, the flood, the chosen people, redemption, Christianity, seven councils and in the conclusion showed Vladimir a picture of the Last Judgment with images of the righteous going to paradise and sinners condemned to eternal torment. Struck by the sight and heard, Vladimir said: "Bless the virtues and woe to the wicked."
    Then Vladimir also sent representatives of the boyars to the country of the Bulgarians, to the lands of the German Catholics and to Constantinople. And their opinion about the rituals and meanings of faith gone there coincided with the opinion of Vladimir, only Russia should be baptized into the Christian-Orthodox faith!
  • ee2100
    ee2100 3 May 2021 08: 03
    The article "Russia - the beginning of the state" is primarily about the adoption of the Christian faith by the Eastern Slavs.
    There are a lot of controversial points in the article. The whole narrative is built on the annals, and this source describes the events in a way that pleases the church.
    We never know about the reasons that prompted our ancestors to accept Christianity.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 3 May 2021 08: 25
      Quote: ee2100
      We never know about the reasons that prompted our ancestors to accept Christianity.

      In the first century, Andrew the First-Called presented our Magi with a new concept of managing the World (the Bible). Our ancestors did not accept her. In the next nine centuries, the Christians with various tricks (they themselves infected the prince - they themselves exiled, through the "institution of Jewish wives", etc.) seized control in Kiev and from there forcefully imposed their will on the rest of the principalities known to us as internecine wars, but in fact the war was between the old concept of government and the new, slave-owning ... Feudalism, capitalism - these are just more sophisticated forms of slavery. If earlier the slave had to be caught, guarded, shod, clothed and kept somewhere, today slaves are self-sufficient.

      In the first century, the Magi had nothing to show. Today we have our own concept and it is called: "The Concept of Public Safety" - KOB. Information on it is available to anyone on the internet. There is opposition to her in the form of "sent Cossacks" dressed in clothes of Kobovites and in every possible way discrediting her.
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 3 May 2021 08: 29
        Your opinion has a right to life.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 3 May 2021 08: 15
    Two historical materials on the site today. It seems to be even a close topic. But they are different, just heaven and earth ... Yes, to be sure, a candidate's degree means a lot, gives a lot and teaches a lot ...
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      3 May 2021 09: 30
      Vyacheslavv Olegovich,
      but I really liked the pictures there, worthy.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 3 May 2021 14: 07
        Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
        but I really liked the pictures there, worthy.

        But we are not children after all ...
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 3 May 2021 17: 50
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, I'm already an adult, and I flatter myself with the thought that I'm not stupid, but for some reason I like bright illustrations.
          Samsonov really picked up vivid illustrations
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 3 May 2021 18: 52
            Quote: Astra wild2
            Samsonov really picked up vivid illustrations

            And nobody argues with this.
  • BAI
    BAI 3 May 2021 10: 35
    Svyatoslav enriched our history with such catchphrases as
    “We will not shame the Russian land, but we will lie down here with bones, for the dead do not know shame

    It is better to remember Prince Oleg:
    "Kiev is the mother of Russian cities."

    Vladimir "with his boyars and elders of the city" from 986 began a search for "faith" among neighboring peoples, who were at higher stages of development, in order to consolidate the power of force.

    How? The chronicler, naturally, writes about the “choice of faith” in a Christian edifying key. In this story, the late edition is also clearly visible, in which there is a mention of German Catholics, because at the end of the XNUMXth century. there was no such discord between the western and eastern churches, although friction had already begun.

    There is a fairly well-grounded opinion that this piece of the "Tale of Bygone Years" is entirely on the conscience of the chronicler. In reality, this was not the case.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 3 May 2021 15: 49
      "in reality this was not the case" Did you compare the texts?
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 3 May 2021 11: 04
    I really liked the analogy with a child: a combination of myths and reality. Books read in childhood and school grow stronger than when "the cup is already full."
    1. depressant
      depressant 3 May 2021 21: 15
      Sergei, you are clearly not an adherent of Kabbalah, according to which a person is a cup infinitely filled with light. You are a materialist. And what do we fill the cup with?
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 3 May 2021 21: 39
        Not an adept. Maybe that's not bad. Rather a Stratagem fan. Stratagem 4 (Exhaustion of the enemy).

        "Fatigue is a weapon that is useful always and everywhere" (c).
        1. depressant
          depressant 3 May 2021 21: 46
          Fatigue of the enemy. Your own fatigue, arising as if out of nothing, exhausts more than the enemy could wear down - he invigorates.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 3 May 2021 21: 58
            Yes. Fatigue of the enemy.
            1. depressant
              depressant 3 May 2021 22: 59
              But also his fatigue.
              And in this regard, I was somewhat offended by the remark of my colleague Privalov regarding the thousand-year backwardness of Russia from Europe.
              There is such a concept in biology: first, plants emerged from the sea on land, then, having received a nutrient medium on land, arthropods crawled out onto it, and only then - vertebrates eating arthropods. The warmer air environment has led to an accelerated development of the species. And if some vertebrates, due to the cataclysm, had to return to the sea, they received a dominant position in it due to the already accumulated evolutionary advantages. But under favorable conditions, vertebrates do not at all strive to return to the aquatic environment and, with the help of hunting, suppress all attempts of the rest of the inhabitants of the sea to escape to land for subsequent evolution - they eat them! Including people.
              Now let's look at the waves of migration of peoples. They went from east to west, but not vice versa! The tired ones lagged behind, they say, we will not go further, but the most passionate, therefore energetic, active, rushed further into warm Europe, small in area and washed by the Gulf Stream on three sides. Maybe they would have run further, but ran into the Atlantic Ocean. Passionaries. Energetic. And they began to divide this small territory among themselves, this territorial patch, fighting among themselves and mingling with the relaxed locals. And this is in small Europe - that's where the melting pot is! Warm, cozy - what is not an environment for accelerated historical development through countless various military clashes and the adoption of someone else's experience. But even in a favorable little Europe, this cage of historical evolution, not everyone has followed the path of accelerated development. The higher the mountains, the less they contribute to the development of historical man. And the more, the endless, the colder the plain - too.
              The Russians, once tired on their way to Europe, rested, but are still freezing.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 3 May 2021 23: 20
                You have beautiful pictures. So I presented whales with kraken, dreaming to get out on land.

                As for the resettlement of peoples, an anecdote is already being recalled about the Finns, Hungarians and Estonians.
                1. depressant
                  depressant 4 May 2021 00: 06
                  Well, at least they brought an anecdote. I don't know him. Maybe it will be more fun. And that day some ... There are such - inappropriate.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 4 May 2021 06: 44
                    One of the options: The Finno-Ugric tribes go from the Urals to the west. At the fork there is a stone with the inscription “To the right - swamps, mosquitoes and herring. To the left - grapes and a warm climate. " Those who could read went to the left.
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 4 May 2021 07: 59
                      Excellent! Straight to the topic. That is, they are still less tired. The rest simply sat down for a thousand years - to rest.
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 4 May 2021 08: 13
                        This is already from the version about Estonians that they were in no hurry to decide.

                        By the way, among the Baltic republics, according to personal feelings, they are the most detailed.
                      2. depressant
                        depressant 4 May 2021 08: 35
                        Which reflects the slowness of speech. Until you reach the vowel to the limit, after which you will be suspected of stuttering, time is gained to figure out how, without changing the position, to make it more acceptable. It's like the Russian speech inserts "Uh-uh ..." Only they have them inside the words.
                      3. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 4 May 2021 09: 00
                        Yes. And I notice the "E" behind me. The reaction is still fast, but you always want to win time. Even unconsciously.
                      4. depressant
                        depressant 4 May 2021 09: 03
                        The habit of an intelligent person to speak consciously. And do not argue in the heat of the moment some nonsense wassat
                      5. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 4 May 2021 09: 11
                        There is also enough nonsense. And how many times - first you act, and then you think.
                      6. depressant
                        depressant 4 May 2021 09: 12
                        Well, if you don't have enough nonsense, then you must think, even in the heat of the moment, you are acting intelligently, right? wassat
                      7. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 4 May 2021 11: 30
                        I want to believe that life teaches something. But sometimes wisdom forgets to come.
              2. ee2100
                ee2100 4 May 2021 09: 46
                Good afternoon.
                I will add my own 5 cents.
                The opinion that Estonians are slow has developed thanks to their neighbors mainly from the east and during the Soviet era.
                An Estonian must translate the question that was asked to him in his "head", formulate an answer and then translate it, well, let's say into Russian. There is a delay in answering. For Estonians, Russian is as foreign as other languages ​​(except Finnish).
                There is no such slowness when you see how they communicate with each other.
                And in addition - the Estonian "Kalev" the last USSR champion in basketball.
  • Illanatol
    Illanatol 8 May 2021 09: 09
    Nonsense. Favorable conditions just suppress the notorious passionarity. To live too well is also bad.
    The Europeans inherited a good heritage - the Roman. First of all, infrastructure - cities and roads. So is Roman law, Roman knowledge and technology. However, the latter was better disposed of by the peoples of the East (the Arabs).
    And what kind of "accelerated development" is there. Until the 15th century, Europe was a backward and weak outskirts of the Oycumene, no more. The most developed, richest and most powerful states were in Asia.
    Only after climate mitigation and the discovery of the New World did Europe make a breakthrough. By now the impulse has already been exhausted and in the near future this Europe will again turn into a backward outskirts. And the leadership will be returned to themselves by Asian countries, China, India.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 3 May 2021 15: 47
    Valery, bravo. The material is good. And by God, if he had been yesterday, they would have gathered more people, and so the "caliber" seduced.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 3 May 2021 17: 45
    Colleagues, hello.
    Eduard, thank you for your material.
    Regarding baptism: "Vladimir, like his sons, completely sincerely acquired a new faith" in my opinion, in the early 90s in Science and Life I read that Vladimir, after his baptism, lost faith in Christianity and converted to Islam. But for obvious reasons, the official annals were silent about this, and so on. What do you think it might be?
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      3 May 2021 19: 13
      Good evening, thanks for thank you!
      Of course, in "Nizh", a strange statement, still remained Christians, and to this day laughing
      I think that the article is from the category of "sensations", relevant for the 90s: now we will write something like that so that everyone would gasp.
  • riwas
    riwas 4 May 2021 03: 57
    About the ancient Russians. Modern Ukrainians differ from them, as the ancient Egyptians differ from the Arabs.
  • bistrov.
    bistrov. 4 May 2021 12: 06
    How is prophetic Oleg now gathered
    To nail the shield to the thief
    How does a man run up to him here?
    And well, lisp something
    And well, speak out of nowhere, out of nowhere
    That you will accept death from your horse ...
    Hehe ....
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 4 May 2021 13: 00
    Family relations are still quite strong, they begin to collapse by the end of the XNUMXth century under the influence of external factors.

    Edward, welcome!
    I have a question about the relationship between external and internal causes of the disintegration of the tribal system: weren't the internal reasons for the disintegration of the tribal system decisive? Or was the external influence still more important? hi
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      4 May 2021 19: 03
      Sergey welcome
      I, as, incidentally, think you and, for a long time stood on the classic Soviet Marxist position that the state is born in the depths of society itself. It was somehow self-evident.
      But under the influence of the work of anthropologists, the understanding came that the tribal society has extreme resilience, as was the case with the early Slavs who migrated south to the borders of Byzantium. And the sources do not say anything like that.
      Now it seems to me that it was the external impulses, acting from outside, that led the tribal society to disintegration, I am listing its signs here, and we do not seem to have others, for example, that military leaders with a retinue appeared in the tribal environment and they stood above the tribe. All the "princes" of the tribes, the same Mal, most likely a tribal leader, not a military leader. Druzhin, except for the Russians, we also do not know.
      And again I quote K. Levi-Strauss:
      “Primitive societies, or those that are considered primitive, are governed by kinship relations, not economic relations. If these societies were not subjected to destruction from the outside, they could exist indefinitely. ”

  • Illanatol
    Illanatol 8 May 2021 08: 59
    Those who like to emphasize the "backwardness" of the Eastern Slavs in terms of social organization, the delay in the development of statehood and the long preservation of the "tribal structure" should be reminded of the principle: "the more a king in the head, the less a king is needed on the throne." Our ancestors themselves were self-sufficient, proactive, capable of self-organization. They just didn't really need bureaucratic structures to solve pressing problems. If in Europe statehood developed mainly as a regulator of commodity-money relations, as a guarantor of law (without laws there is nothing called a market), then in our country the state developed, first of all, as a military structure, its main function is not legal, and defensive. Hence a certain primitivism and one-sidedness in the development of statehood in our country, which persisted for a very long time (and even now it has not completely disappeared).
    It is also worth noting that the most complex and perfect state structures are observed where a separate individual is turned into a living "cog", rather an object than a subject.
    But such societies are just not very viable, while more simply organized, but consisting of more subjective individuals turn out to be more resistant to unfavorable circumstances, both internal and external.
    Example. The Indians of Central and South America, who created highly developed civilizations (Aztecs, Incas), became easy prey for small detachments of conquistadors. While the Indians of North America, stuck in the "tribal system", stubbornly resisted the Europeans for several centuries.
    And in our history ... in the Time of Troubles, neither the state apparatus of that time, nor the church passed the test of strength. The country was then saved by the civic spirit and the ability to self-organize of the Russian people.
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 8 May 2021 19: 40
    Quote: ROSS 42
    Russia accepted the Faith

    How would not have to accept another.
    As soon as it began to breathe more freely, after the covid exodus of illegal migrants, they again want to overwhelm Russia with new hordes:

    And the new arrivals have already begun to cut people in broad daylight: