Foreign observer: Chinese army tries to hide its main flaw behind new weapons

Columnist Steve Sachs for The Diplomat, which specializes in Asia-Pacific (Indo-Pacific) coverage, writes about reforms in the People's Liberation Army of China (PLA).

The materials describe how actively the PRC has been building up its military potential in the past few years: it creates aircraft, missiles, forms new armored formations, builds aircraft carriers, destroyers and submarines. At the same time, Steve Sachs notes that with all this military-technical power, the Chinese army has a serious drawback.

The diplomat:

The Chinese army is trying to hide its main drawback behind numerous new weapons being created in the country.

The article points out that such a disadvantage is the lack of combat experience of the Chinese army.

From an article by a foreign observer:

The PLA lacks modern combat experience since its last war against Vietnam was in 1979.

We are talking about the so-called "first socialist war" - the hostilities that broke out between the PRC and Vietnam in the border areas.

According to the author of the material in this publication, that is why the PRC authorities are now taking all measures to increase the combat readiness of Chinese troops. For this, war games have been introduced into the training program - exercises during which military operations are played out in the format in which it is usually done in NATO: "reds" against "blues".

It was noted that rapid response units are being formed in the PLA, amphibious units are expanding, much attention is paid to conducting information operations, the use of high-precision weapons... The final appearance of China's new army is said to be complete by 2035.

In this regard, the foreign press also raises questions about whether China will try to "work out the combat capability of its troops in practice." The most likely site of hostilities is Taiwan and the Taiwan Strait.

Comments

[Holuay T.O]

Experience is a gain
The main thing in war is discipline and equipment

[Uncle lee]

The PLA lacks modern combat experience since its last war against Vietnam was in 1979.

Directly push on someone to attack the thread! INITIATORS!

[novel66]

there and the Philippines run into

[NIKN]

Roma Well, no, in a few years they will say that the lack of the Chinese Armed Forces is the lack of combat experience in their combat robots, and especially in interplanetary space.

[novel66]

Kolya! they, hike, and without experience already pile on anyone

[NIKN]

Quote: novel xnumx

they, hike, and without experience already pile on anyone

I also speak. Their level of armament has already been advanced so much that after a few years it is time to say that it is inconvenient for them to watch while sitting on the screen as their AI on the battlefield has no "combat experience".

[novel66]

and the soldiers are very motivated, as far as can be seen

[NIKN]

You can't argue with motivation when, in general, only with rifles they could push the front line in Korea right up to the sea. An interesting war was, in which more Chinese casualties (combat in personnel), in my opinion, no one carried.

[Hort]

with the "peace for China" policy, there will soon be a queue for them.
There was good analytics on what this behavior of China will lead to on the world stage - by joint efforts of its neighbors, the year will be cut by 2035.

[antivirus]

after Taiwan ... it was necessary to indicate-Formosa .......................

[Volodin]

Quote: Holuay T.O.

The main thing in war is discipline and equipment

So Hitler thought so. However, in the end, even experience did not help those ...

[Holuay T.O]

Yes, but what is the price paid? If there were discipline in the red army and smart generals in the initial phase

[novel66]

and not Zhukov in the General Staff ..

[Murmur 55]

And China does not think it will pay its price if it suddenly begins to parse for the disputed territories, simply for them, human losses are not as sensitive as for us or others.

[Hort]

in fact, the big question is how their society will react to the heavy casualties in the PLA and the attendant civilian casualties. They live happily and generally well-fed

[Doliva63]

Quote: Volodin

Quote: Holuay T.O.

The main thing in war is discipline and equipment

So Hitler thought so. However, in the end, even experience did not help those ...

No experience will help if the cat cries out for resources.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Holuay T.O.

Experience is a gain
The main thing in war is discipline and equipment

Troop training Do not forget. Achieved at least ("to start") in maneuvers and exercises.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Insurgent

Quote: Holuay T.O.

Experience is a gain
The main thing in war is discipline and equipment

Troop training Do not forget. Achieved at least ("to start") in maneuvers and exercises.

It seems to me that San Vasilich used to say: "hard in training - easy in a campaign" and "hard in training? Will it be even harder in battle." But this is so, from memory.

[rocket757]

And the army has no secondary positions !!!
An integrated approach, comprehensive training!

[Insurgent]

Quote: rocket757

And the army has no secondary positions !!!
An integrated approach, comprehensive training!

[knn54]

Almost half a century ago, a teacher from the military department (he was an adviser in Vietnam) told how the border guards and militias of the DRV, despite high losses, were able to repel the attacks of REGULAR PLA units.
And the Vietnamese army at that time was at war with South Vietnam and its allies.
According to the stories of their father, they did not show themselves in a radiant manner in the Korean War either.
Almost twenty years passed between these events.
The author, to some extent, is right.

[Anatole Klim]

Quote: knn54

Almost half a century ago, a teacher from the military department (he was an adviser in Vietnam) told how the border guards and militias of the DRV, despite high losses, were able to repel the attacks of REGULAR PLA units.
And the Vietnamese army at that time was at war with South Vietnam and its allies.

You got something wrong, Saigon fell in 1975, in this war the DRV supported not only the Soviet Union, but also China. And the Sino-Vietnamese war was in 1979, this war was also called the first socialist war. These are completely different wars, at different times

[rocket757]

Namely, at different times.
Combat experience, this is serious, no one argues with this, BUT, according to the assurances of the same advisers, the Vietnamese army, at that time, was also saturated with military equipment, weapons an order of magnitude better than the Chinese! Experience, superior weapons, plus high morale !!! All this created the prerequisites for successfully repelling the enemy's attack.

[Doliva63]

Quote: rocket757

Namely, at different times.
Combat experience, this is serious, no one argues with this, BUT, according to the assurances of the same advisers, the Vietnamese army, at that time, was also saturated with military equipment, weapons an order of magnitude better than the Chinese! Experience, superior weapons, plus high morale !!! All this created the prerequisites for successfully repelling the enemy's attack.

I remember from TV of those years - my sister (older) and brother (younger) go to school. My sister has a grenade launcher with her, my brother carries a bag of grenades. Like, in case the Chinese suddenly reach us. They then had the whole country as an army, but with awesome experience.

[Insurgent]

Quote: knn54

Almost half a century ago, a teacher from the military department (he was an adviser in Vietnam) told how the border guards and militias of the DRV, despite high losses, were able to repel the attacks of REGULAR PLA units.

And the Vietnamese army at that time was at war with South Vietnam and its allies.

Wait, wait ... Didn't you mix anything up?

You do not think that the events you describe can (presumably) to relate to somewhat later events - the conflict between Vietnam and China in 1979, which lasted a month and in the Chinese version referred to as a "preemptive defensive war against Vietnam"

For reference : The Vietnam War officially ended in 1975.

[dauria]

conflict between Vietnam and China in 1979, which lasted a month

It was so. Somewhere in February, if memory does not fail. Grown men were seriously discussing "Let's get involved or not in this mess," the old women bought up matches, salt, cereals and soap. The Chinese rushed about 60 kilometers. Then everything abruptly quieted down. Here it was our diplomats who decided, not the soldiers.
And no one has experience. So, in addition to the Falklands (and even then rather sea-to-air, not infantry), the Jews, like ours and the Americans, rather the transfer and supply of formations (associations) worked, and not the DBs themselves. The Chinese have the same experience in bulk. And add Korea, so it turns out that the last time seriously was the Chinese and were cut. 120 thousand casualties only - not a trifle.

[Insurgent]

Quote: dauria

Here it was our diplomats who decided, not the soldiers.

The army was not without. There was a "push". Approximately the same as now on the outskirts.

So, in Chita, the Main Command of the Far East Forces was created, which united the troops of the ZabVO and the Far East Military District with the operational subordination of the Pacific Fleet, the regiments of combat aviation from the territory of Ukraine and Belarus were transferred to the airfields of the MPR.

Large military exercises were held in Mongolia, in which six motorized rifle and tank divisions took part, three of which were additionally introduced into the Mongolian People's Republic from Siberia and Transbaikalia. In addition, two brigades, up to three aviation divisions, as well as formations and reinforcement units were involved in activities on the territory of this republic.

In addition, during the indicated period, military exercises were held in the Far East and in East Kazakhstan with the participation of several combined arms and aviation units, as well as border troops.

During the exercises, combat coordination of troops was carried out. Compounds and units in difficult climatic and natural conditions marched long distances from Siberia to Mongolia (more than 2 thousand km). The troops regrouped by rail, were thrown by air.

[Revolver]

Quote: Holuay T.O.

Experience is a gain
The main thing in war is discipline and equipment

As they said in the 1980s, "War is bullshit, the main thing is maneuvers."

[Murmur 55]

I do not argue, only this experience is bought with blood, but whether China is willing to pay this is the question.

[rocket757]

The article points out that such a disadvantage is the lack of combat experience of the Chinese army.

... Combat experience is a FACT!
And so, from the whole history of wars it follows - As the army prepares, learns, so it fights !!!

[alexey sidykin]

Sometimes experience doesn't help either. As the Chinese are crazy about the Japanese, so in Korea it is exactly the same with Vietnam.

[rocket757]

As it is in the past. Judging by the exercises, the training that they demonstrate, they have progressed greatly, and they have a lot of weapons at the level.

[prior]

Based on this logic, Americans have much more experience of lost armed conflicts than won ones.
Is the American army that strong?

[paul3390]

At the same time, the Americans have rather negative experience, they have never fought in the past 70 years against a serious enemy. Possessing all types of troops, modern weapons, long-range weapons and powerful electronic warfare. And here - their experience of anti-poser wars can do them extremely bad service .. When it turns out that the US Armed Forces are by no means as cool as they are taught .. And completely different skills are required ..

Yes, and the Korean War with the Vietnam War - they showed that in conditions of at least basic opposition from more or less modern weapons - the Americans begin to feel extremely uncomfortable ..

[Hort]

Don't underestimate, they have a normal experience. Most of the personnel have been fired upon and have practical (!) Experience in conducting a database, and it costs a lot.
In addition, they have perfectly worked out various tactics for the actions of high-mobility units, interaction with the branches of the military in real combat conditions, etc.
By the way, ours, by the way, only in Syria, probably fully worked out something similar

[mojohed2012]

So let the PLA come to Syria - we will share their experience, just mind the equipment and weapons with ammunition, logistics and supplies ourselves - = ourselves ... I think for Assad with an official invitation to take part in the liberation of the state from the interventionists and barmaley - it will not work.

[evgen1221]

It remains only with our moneybags to agree on the division of the pie and spheres of influence. And how they (the Chinese) build and in what time frame, plus the amount of money, then they will squeeze everything out of ours.

[rotmistr60]

The PLA lacks modern combat experience

This is true, but most likely the situation in the world is developing in such a way that soon the Chinese will also have to acquire this experience. They have enough "well-wishers", and even more ambitions. Forever behind the backs of others and watching from the side it will not work.

[Revolver]

Quote: rotmistr60

Forever behind the backs of others and watching from the side to sit out

As their "great" Mao bequeathed to them.

[nnm]

her last war was against Vietnam in 1979.

Moreover, they lost this war devastatingly for themselves.
And the massacre with stones with India somehow does not add confidence to the PLA.
But the fact that the Chinese army is rapidly growing, is growing qualitatively - this is beyond doubt. And taking into account the mobilization potential, the acquisition of combat experience will happen very quickly. In fact, they will repeat our experience of the Great Patriotic War - having knocked out the most combat-ready units from the enemy (for example, Hong Kong, Korea, Japan), they themselves will get stronger during this time.
But there is a nuance - India and Pakistan, comparable even in terms of the number of my reserves, are eternal "friends" of China.

[Murmur 55]

Only now the presence of modern weapons can neutralize the number of troops and their morale.

[nnm]

The Germans did not really succeed during the Second World War ...
It is clear that we are talking about a situation where other nuances are approximately comparable, but nevertheless, I gave you an example of the opposite.

[Nadrub]

:))) yeah Saudis versus Houthis is an excellent example of leveling ultra-modern weapons and spirit.
As they say ... "One who is not afraid of death will put to flight a hundred trembling for his life."

[Doliva63]

Quote: nnm

her last war was against Vietnam in 1979.

Moreover, they lost this war devastatingly for themselves.
And the massacre with stones with India somehow does not add confidence to the PLA.
But the fact that the Chinese army is rapidly growing, is growing qualitatively - this is beyond doubt. And taking into account the mobilization potential, the acquisition of combat experience will happen very quickly. In fact, they will repeat our experience of the Great Patriotic War - having knocked out the most combat-ready units from the enemy (for example, Hong Kong, Korea, Japan), they themselves will get stronger during this time.
But there is a nuance - India and Pakistan, comparable even in terms of the number of my reserves, are eternal "friends" of China.

Hmm. I didn’t catch on about Hong Kong. Or did the British hide a whole SAS regiment there?

[evgen1221]

With their mob potential, God forbid, that the Chinese began to gain this experience. In every country in the world, a division of the Chinese will fight, and each type of troops and at the same time.)))

[Hort]

how to supply and arm their mob. potential will be?

[Doliva63]

Quote: hort

how to supply and arm their mob. potential will be?

It is reasonable to assume that the PRC is already on the way to resolving this issue.

[Murmur 55]

China has long been not a country that can be ignored, only this is the mood in society, are ordinary Chinese ready to lay down with bones for the sake of the interests of the com. party? They have enough disputed lands, their neighbors also do not boast with good. And China is in no hurry to start a war.

[Prisoner]

This Steve Sachs has decided to tackle complacency? But in vain. Maybe the Chinese do not rush around the world, crushing obviously weak opponents, gaining experience as Americans, but they learn very quickly. And they are motivated very well.

[voyaka uh]

Replace "China" with "Japan".
And replace 2021 with 1904.
And you will understand that a country without military experience can prepare an army for a modern war and win in a short period.

[Hort]

Japan has lifelong military experience

[voyaka uh]

Military experience? With samurai swords, bows and arrows.
And so - hundreds of years without changes.
And then, in some 50 years, they learned to fight and win with the latest battleships, artillery and machine guns.

[alexey sidykin]

And you ask, China fought from the mid-30s against Japan, then Korea, then Vietnam where they blew it out ... Where is their experience? By the way, in Korea, they also showed themselves not so hot. Putting a bunch of people foolishly in a quarter of a century of fighting, you can gain experience from the idea, but with China it was not destiny. So where did you get the idea that it will not be the same now?

[Doliva63]

Quote: voyaka uh

Replace "China" with "Japan".
And replace 2021 with 1904.
And you will understand that a country without military experience can prepare an army for a modern war and win in a short period.

These are different situations. Actually, Katai's army, under his policy, is needed to achieve 2 tasks: 1. So that no one dreamed of encroaching on them; 2. To serve as a last resort somewhere in the event of conflicts of interest, when economic arguments are not enough, that is, almost never. IMHO, of course.

[voyaka uh]

Not at all.
China has global economic plans.
Silk Road-2.
It will pass through Asia to Europe.
Will travel to Africa and South America.
Construction is in full swing:
ports, railways, logistics - warehouses of goods.
And for the protection of all this - the army and the navy.
China is building military bases along the entire length of the Silk Road-2.
Soon the world will see Chinese squadrons in both the Atlantic and the Mediterranean.

[Doliva63]

Quote: voyaka uh

Not at all.
China has global economic plans.
Silk Road-2.
It will pass through Asia to Europe.
Will travel to Africa and South America.
Construction is in full swing:
ports, railways, logistics - warehouses of goods.
And for the protection of all this - the army and the navy.
China is building military bases along the entire length of the Silk Road-2.
Soon the world will see Chinese squadrons in both the Atlantic and the Mediterranean.

You just added to my data formulation, thanks. It turns out I'm right

[Hort]

since her last war was against Vietnam in 1979.

in which the Vietnamese piled on them)
Quite right, the "mighty" PLA never fought anywhere

[Reserve buildbat]

The author is right. The Chinese army has little combat experience. But the American army has even less of it.

[Azat Mambetov]

The Chinese started in small groups, 10-20 million people each.

[protected.mas]

It is not entirely clear what is meant here by "combat experience". All wars are different and the experience gained in one war may be practically useless in another. Experience in large-scale encounters with an equal adversary no one for a very, very long time. It is not clear to what extent the experience of small wars and local local conflicts can be applied to a "big war".
If by "combat experience" we mean the confidence that the soldiers and commanders do not describe themselves and do not scatter as soon as the first one falls nearby combat projectile - here yes, anything can happen. This can be reliably checked only with a live projectile :)