"For almost $ 150 million, we buy an" empty "fighter without missile weapons" - Polish experts on the F-35 contract

At the beginning of last year, Poland signed a contract with the United States for the supply of fifth-generation F-35 fighters to the Polish Air Force. For $ 4,6 billion, Poland intends to purchase 32 of these aircraft. If purely arithmetically, then each plane will cost the Polish budget almost 144 million US dollars. However, in the contract itself, as they say in Warsaw, the prescribed price of the fighters is $ 87 million. Another 50 million for each purchased fighter, according to Polish sources, is pilot training, the supply of flight simulators, maintenance and software updates.

At one time, the partners of the United States, who were among the first to receive the contracted F-35 fighters, noted a "feature" - the software required updating immediately after delivery ... And at that time not everyone had time to sign a contract that would imply software update. Therefore, the Americans had to pay for updating the software of the newly delivered fighters.

The Ministry of Defense of Poland, commenting on the contract for the purchase of the F-35, notes that the aircraft will "bring the country's air force to a completely new level." It is planned in the next few years to start updating the aircraft fleet, including the abandonment of the operation of MiG-29 fighters.

However, a certain skepticism is expressed in the Polish expert community. It is connected with the following: information was confirmed that the supply of aircraft with weapons was not spelled out in the contract. In other words, for $ 144 million per combat vehicle, Poland buys a fighter that is "empty" in terms of airborne missile weapons - even if this amount includes training and the supply of simulators.

From comments:

For almost $ 150 million, we buy an "empty" fighter plane without missile weapons. And when they say how much the missiles will cost us. Or we don't need them - we'll get by aviation cannon?

For reference: the first batch of F-35 fighters should be delivered to the Polish Air Force in 2026.

Comments

[Zaurbek]

Simulators are not cheap ..... so it's quite relevant. And as the number of F-35s grows, the "margin" in the form of simulations and training will decrease, per aircraft.

[figwam]

For almost $ 150 million, we buy an "empty" fighter plane without missile weapons.

But with an engine, the design of which was taken from the Soviet Yak-141, only Soviet engineers could do this without computers, 3D graphics and billions

[mitroha]

They say more wings will be delivered

[A009]

Well, you have already bent it.

[Cowbra]

Well, there have already been cases that they supplied an aircraft, but the engine for it - there is an additional contract ... And so, yes, the aircraft has been delivered.
The old trick is how the Americans "write out" the price. The cost of the fighter is calculated according to the first contract concluded, and then several additional ones are hung on it, and they are not included in the cost of the fighter itself. That is why it turns out that officially the F-35 is about 80 lam, and when the F-35 that crashed in the USA last April is written off, its price is 200-plus, so one price is official, the second is real

[Irokez]

Well, that's how the pricing market works. Only the arrival of a girl of easy virtue is 50 dollars, and everything else is an additional cost.

[Egoza]

Quote: Cowbra

Well, there have already been cases that they supplied an aircraft, but the engine for it - there is an additional contract ... And so, yes, the aircraft has been delivered.
The old trick is how the Americans "write out" the price.

To be able to bargain (read to rob) is necessary. And the Poles thought that they would be given everything for free? Or at least with a discount, tk. are they "ideological"? Ideas are paid for with "ideological, moral support"

[Piramidon]

Quote: Mitroha

They say more wings will be delivered

Like in that joke.
A swimming pool was built in the madhouse. Dypiki jump into it from the tower and argue among themselves - "The doctor said, if we behave well, they will pour water into the pool"

[Zaurbek]

The design is American ........ the Americans bought the documentation for the design of the rotary nozzle from the Yak Design Bureau and could use the developments (Nozzles) for the F-35V version (VTOL) ... and the Americans never needed our turbojet engines and dont need.

[figwam]

Quote: Zaurbek

the documentation for the design of the rotary nozzle from the Yak design bureau was bought by the Americans

This is the design that the Americans could not make themselves.

[Revolver]

Quote: figvam

This is the design that the Americans could not make themselves.

Why invest in your development if you can buy a ready-made one several times cheaper? "It's the economy, stupid!" © Bill Clinton

[figwam]

Quote: Nagan

Why invest in your development if you can buy a ready-made one several times cheaper?

Well, yes, in the USA there was always not enough money, the poor saved.

[Zaurbek]

There are several working schemes for VTOL aircraft ..... to work each one is time and a lot of money. And time should be spent on each. Harrier's working scheme was well developed ... as a result, the F-35 successfully combined the scheme with a fan and a rotary nozzle ...

[figwam]

Quote: Zaurbek

Harrier's working scheme was well developed ... as a result, the F-35 successfully combined the scheme with a fan and a rotary nozzle ...

Harier has nothing to do with it, the F-35 scheme was taken from the Yak-141.

[Zaurbek]

And what is the lifting unit? The Harrier had fan outlets ... there was a separate fan ... on the Yak there was a lifting turbojet engine.

[figwam]

That's just the point, there is only one engine with taps on Harier.
And on the Yak-141 and F-35 there is an additional lifting device in the front of the fuselage at one turbojet engine, at the other a fan.

[Zaurbek]

These are conversations from the series: the USSR could not make the Atomic bomb ... and stole it from the Americans.

[yehat2]

you are confusing the motor and the rotary nozzle.
the penguin has a slightly modified 1 engine from the f-22
and now he definitely has nothing to do with the yak.
in addition, only 1 model out of 3 for the f-35 is generally equipped with equipment for the GDP
and there are very few of them. And the Poles probably got model A

[nks]

If only the rotary nozzle was taken for the F135-PW-600 version (for the F-35B). Otherwise, these engines are not connected in any way. In the video, by the way, also not the engine, but only part of it - the nozzle and, possibly, the afterburner.

[nks]

Simulators are overpriced (at least every 4 ~ $ 12 million), but they do not play a key role in such a price tag overboard. The real price at which the cheapest version of the F-35A is being sold is ~ $ 120 million. The rest (except for the supply of spare parts) is training, equipment can reduce the cost on board with a larger batch, but the Poles are unlikely to be able to buy more.

[Andrey Korotkov]

The Poles need to drive their smartphone, with the update it is always stable-free, and it also flies true to the floor

[Cowbra]

Will not work. Here, like in a joke about new Russians ..
- How much did you buy a tie?
- Two bucks.
- What are you, a fool? Over the corner for 500 more!

[xorek]

The Poles give you a "white elephant" ..)))) There is also maintenance, software updates, etc. The United States and Israel are just rubbing their hands and calculating the future profit from the "century" deal.

[Revolver]

Do you have no water in the tap again?

[OgnennyiKotik]

The price of the aircraft itself is a maximum of 2/3 of the price of any contract, all other related costs. The preliminary cost of the order was $ 6,5 billion, and it probably included weapons. And so Poland has F-16s and they bought missiles and bombs for them, they are compatible with the F-35.

[figwam]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

And so Poland has F-16s and they bought missiles and bombs for them.

Yeah, they'll just take away the ammunition from the F-16, and it's true why they need it.

[yehat2]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

they are F-35 compatible

only partially. Moreover, I am sure that the Poles do not have missiles at all, which were originally planned for the closed compartments of the F-35.

[paul3390]

And as you wanted the logs - to be a colony and not pay the colonial tax? They were spoiled by the terrible totalitarian imperial USSR, which for some reason considered it his duty to help his wards for free. Not so with the bourgeois - those last cowards will not disdain to pull off and sell.

The former socialist brothers in reason had expected what they would have a new owner, the same as the Union, only richer and more generous. Shchaz !! Reality brought unexpected surprises .. The capitalist will miss the loot.

[Popandos]

will we make do with an aircraft gun?

Shells also cost money.

[rusich]

You will pay with apples

[paul3390]

Plumbers ..

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

will we make do with an aircraft gun?

So cannon shells are not included in the price either.

[Keyser soze]

Most of the writers cannot or do not want to understand - half the price of the contract is training (pilots and technicians are trained in the USA), weapons, simulators, infrastructure (our contract for F16 also includes the preparation of two aerodromes), repair possibilities, a workshop, software updates, 5 years of support, etc.

It all goes regardless of who you buy fighters - from the United States, Russia, China or the Martian Confederation. Aviation is an expensive business - he called himself a load, climb into the back.

Moreover, pitying the Poles is so-so occupation - they will soon have a minimum wage of 1000 euros, and the economy generally flies, so they have a lot of money.

[akarfoxhound]

Well, yes, the repair of the concrete under the 16e is not going anywhere, the requirements for the lane, not as for Soviet MiGs and Dryers, the pneumatics on the Americans are slightly more than on children's carriages. In 1996, the Americans flew from Elmendorf to the Savasley PPI and PLC on the F-15C and D, for a very long time, in thoughtfulness, their advance group walked along our concrete road with the thought: "Wouldn't the" legs "fall off when the run along the Russian runway?" In the end, they gave their approval for the landing and very carefully examined the racks after each departure.
How were they going to fight with the Union with such tenderness? I do not understand :)

[Keyser soze]

there are slightly more pneumatics on Americans than on children's carriages.

Well, it happens, what to do .... who has dead pneumatics and who has a radar .... different concepts of life.

[Dread]

Quote: Keyser Soze

Well, it happens, what to do ... who has dead pneumatics and who has a radar...

Yes, and the Americans have no better radar ...
The detection range is not better, and stealth does not help, and the range of the RVV-BD AIM-120 is small for long-range combat operations.

[akarfoxhound]

Well, yes, humorist, look at my nickname and turn on your head for the dead "radar".
As they say in fighter aviation with your blunder: "Discretion is unsatisfactory!"

[akarfoxhound]

Quote: Keyser Soze

.... different concepts of life.

Py.Sy. In that memorable year, my Savasley colleagues on the antediluvian Su-27P during the whole guest week, the world's best fighters of your overlords "rotated on LDPE" to the fullest! And shortly before that, Alexander Nikolaevich Kharchevsky, with a group of his Lipetsk friends, rotated the mattresses on the LDPE in the other direction (extremely carefully, so that the "partners" in the air Kama Sutra did not have their head spinning ) Don't they tell new vassals like that? Oh byada-chagrin ...

[Andrey Korotkov]

Quote: Keyser Soze

Moreover, pitying the Poles is so-so occupation - they will soon have a minimum wage of 1000 euros, and the economy generally flies, so they have a lot of money.

Let's see where it will fly against the background of a reduction in handouts from the EU, product quotas, lockdowns. Of course, the US will pump up Poland with weapons as an outpost of Russophobia.

[Keyser soze]

Let's see where she arrives ..

Look, look ... everything will be. And the dollar will collapse and Yellowstone will bang, you just have to be able to wait.

[Andrey Korotkov]

Quote: Keyser Soze

Let's see where she arrives ..

Look, look ... everything will be. And the dollar will collapse and Yellowstone will bang, you just have to be able to wait.

I appreciated your joke, I did not write about the dollar and Yellowstone - apparently I forgot about the San Andeas fault

[Ruslan Sulima]

Why would they need planes with weapons? Poland has always been famous for its flying hussars, Ukrainian registered Cossacks, it's time to restore historical justice)

[voyaka uh]

"The first batch of F-35 fighters should be delivered to the Polish Air Force in 2026." ///
----
This means that from the end of the 20s Russia will have to tighten the density of the air defense of the Western District
several times. Install S-400 batteries every 50 km. And in depth.
There is still time to prepare.

[prior]

How many F-35 aircraft will Poland need, and how many S-400 installations will Russia need if, after the border is violated by the first aircraft, a nuclear strike is launched against it (against Poland)?

[Keyser soze]

will a nuclear strike be delivered against it (against Poland)?

And they will throw candies at you. And because you are 140 million and only 300 amers and 540 Europeans, you can count and who will survive in a nuclear war. And in St. Petersburg they will speak Chinese when the radiation subsides.

You would generally buy a new, modern internet sofa, with advanced intelligence capabilities and a chip for logic ...

[Winnie76]

Quote: voyaka uh

This means that from the end of the 20s Russia will have to tighten the density of the air defense of the Western District
several times. Install S-400 batteries every 50 km. And in depth.
There is still time to prepare.

Judging by the Polish command post exercise, Warsaw will be surrounded in 4 days. https://inosmi.ru/politic/20210204/249057952.html

[Incvizitor]

It's easier to direct more rockets to the airfields of logs, multiply them by zero along with fu.

[user1212]

Quote: voyaka uh

This means that from the end of the 20s Russia will have to tighten the density of the air defense of the Western District

Why the heck, I'm sorry, why?

Quote: voyaka uh

There is still time to prepare

Funny joke

[ultra]

Why such difficulties, the RIAC treaty is screwed up, it is quite possible to deploy a couple of missile brigades and that's it, and the Iskanders from Kaliningrad shoot Poland well.

[aszzz888]

voyaka uh (Alexey)
Yesterday, 10: 30
NEW
-5
"The first batch of F-35 fighters should be delivered to the Polish Air Force in 2026." ///
----
This means that from the end of the 20s Russia will have to tighten the density of the air defense of the Western District
several times. Install S-400 batteries every 50 km. And in depth.
There is still time to prepare.

how caring we are! Well, what is there for the iron kumpola that pimples of David? Are they sticking out? How many self-made pipes have they missed, eh? weak?

[rotmistr60]

for 150 million dollars we buy an "empty" fighter

Even Poles, accustomed to looking into Americans' mouths, realized that they were simply being swindled.

[Thrifty]

Few 32, 150 irons imitating an airplane must be immediately bought for cash, the European Union will give more creedites for the purchase of a pair of used aircraft carriers from the same us.

[rocket757]

"For almost $ 150 million, we buy an" empty "fighter without missile weapons" - Polish experts on the F-35 contract

We'll have to spend ... and then spend some more. Their affairs, themselves, themselves.

[vic02]

I am surprised only by the position of Germany and France, which sponsor Poland and at the same time allow it to buy weapons from the United States.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Why are the Poles whining? Did they expect to buy a fighter with a stock of missiles and probably more fuel for 10 years ahead ?! ))

Buying an F-35 for Poland is like buying a Mercedes milking a person with an average income, there are more headaches than the pleasure of buying.

[Dizel200]

Well, you will fly or fly, albeit without missiles

[TermNachTer]

Rzhu nimagu)) psheks thought they were on an attraction of fantastic generosity?)))

[iouris]

Excellent purchase. Congratulations. It remains only to win the war.

[Constanty]

I have said and say all the time that it is pointless to buy an F-35.
It would be much better to buy an F-16V with that money and upgrade your Block52 + to that level.

Well, Big Brother asked otherwise, and we, as slaves, must obey his orders. The current government and policy of Poland is one big misfortune

[Soldatov V.]

I do not understand this is the Pole writing?

[Constanty]

Yes - this is the opinion of the Pole

[Soldatov V.]

And why do you have Russian shoulder straps? All the same, you have to indicate on the website the country of origin of the commentators and the shoulder straps of his country. I grew up as an internationalist and I have no hatred for another nation, however, like all Russians. I even have a Polish mother-in-law. we have such hatred, close the border with us, end all relations and we will understand you. But you call ghouls from all over the world and arrange a springboard for an attack on our homeland. We no longer know how to please you. Note not to attack, but to calm down. their problems inside the country are above the roof, and then some kind of Dzhegosh Dzhenchich Chichkevich (the rate is more than life) is rinsing our brains.

[Constanty]

Why do you have Russian shoulder straps?

Because apart from the branches of the armed forces themselves, it is impossible to choose apart from the Russian ones.
Also, I have no problem with this.

I do not hide the fact that I am a Pole.

I also do not hide my critical attitude to the current government and foreign policy of Poland.

[Soldatov V.]

Thank you for the revelation and courage for expressing your opinion. I think you understand what I mean.

[Soldatov V.]

If you want to ruin the country, sell it the F-35. It's good that the Warsaw Pact collapsed, otherwise these gentry would still be kept.

[sgr291158]

And why do they need rockets, they are going to shoot at someone.

[Misha_an26]

Not only does this aerodynamic uyo ... still fly somehow, it asks for money. Well, the Panamas do not understand this.

[Kushka]

Quote: Cowbra

Will not work. Here, like in a joke about new Russians ..
- How much did you buy a tie?
- Two bucks.
- What are you, a fool? Over the corner for 500 more!

Of the same;
In London, they go to the gallery.
How much is it? - Rembrandt, 17th century, 1,5 million pounds.
And this: Won Gogh, 18th century, 2 million pounds.
Roll up (mobile phone rings) -Ale, rake,
the guys and I bought a postcard here, a gift
we here with the guys bought a postcard, we will choose a gift.














З

[Maxim_ok]

retelling other people's comments is not clear who (some kind of Wojciech from a secondary school in Polish Perdi) and also without references is bad manners.
plus If the contract includes support including software updates (guys, you can't update your iPhone) for many years, pilot training, flight simulators, etc., then the price is clear and justified. It can't be cheap. what is there to be surprised at all. In general, the campaign is sucked from the finger. As for weapons, the F-35 will fit all the same JDAM, JASSM, AIM-120, which are used on the Polish F-16

[Basarev]

Well, why did you choose such an aircraft? The Poles could buy our Sushki, they would have enough for their needs.

[seacap]

They took the same decommissioned frigates from them at the price of new ones, without w / n and helicopters, some hulls, but destroyed their shipyards.

[agoran]

"The first batch of F-35 fighters should be delivered to the Polish Air Force in 2026."
So it turns out that Poland will be divided again by 2026?
Psheki are funny, according to general tactics, the first blow is applied to the runway, control centers, etc.
Can this penguin take off from an unpaved runway?
30 boards is just a regiment.
In Nivenskoye it is time to restore the regiment as a counterweight.

[tech3030]

Well, if it's empty, then you can use it as a battering ram! Only do not tell the Poles, otherwise they will take the advice to action.

[Gregory Charnota]

ok so the Yankees milk their vassals of the sixes

[Leonid Har]

Guns are cool. Recently one F35 shot itself with its own cannon

[KADINIK]

The more such contracts there are in NATO, the higher the defense capability of the Air Force of the Russian Federation.

[Dimon-SPG]

This is yes, a completely new level ... budget wasting and so impoverished Poland! ))))