"Armor of Hercules". The most beautiful armor in history

Engraving by Etienne Delon (1518-1583) "Workshop of a goldsmith in Augsburg", Germany, 1576. From the book by John F. Hayward, The Virtuoso Jewelers and the Triumph of Mannerism, 1540-1620. (London: Sotheby's, 1976), picture 3. This is how these masters worked at that time!

"Finally, everyone calmed down ..."
(Ghost King Eric III Desperate. "The Snow Queen" is a Soviet film based on the fairy tale by Hans Christian Andersen. Director - Gennady Kazansky, screenwriter Yevgeny Schwartz)

Museum collections of knightly armor and weapons. King Eric XIV of Sweden (1560-1568) was not “desperate”, as a fairy-tale character known in our country, but he was “insane” for sure. He strove for the greatness of Sweden, but was clearly ill with schizophrenia, and over the years his illness only only worsened. He fought in Europe, fought with Russia, and tried to improve the armament of his army and develop the art of war. He tried to consolidate his throne and wooed the English Queen Elizabeth. But unsuccessful. The growing suspicion led to unjustified killings and executions, which caused discontent among the people and the nobility. As a result, Eric was dethroned and imprisoned in the castle along with his wife and children. And although his content was more than preferential, the very thought that he, the rightful king, was deprived of the throne by his brothers, haunted him. There was a conspiracy to free him, but ... ended in failure. The organizers were executed, and the severity of the confinement was increased. As a result, he was poisoned with a bowl of pea soup, as evidenced by a forensic examination carried out in our day and found in his bones a significant amount of arsenic, and died in 1577. His tragic fate inspired Swedish writers, artists, poets and even composers, and the castle prison where he was held became a museum in 1985.

Portrait of Eric XIV by the Flemish painter Ferwilt Domenic (1544-1565). National Museum, Stockholm

However, he was perhaps most famous not at all for their cares and not even for popular rumor, but for the works of the Antwerp jeweler Eliza Liberts, who created for him, without exaggeration, the most beautiful and impressive knightly armor of "all times and peoples" that Eric did not need for war, and ... for matchmaking to Queen Elizabeth I of England, and then to Christina of Hesse. The set for the rider and the horse got the name "Armor of Hercules", because this antique character and his twelve exploits were the main theme of their design.

Perhaps this is how this illustrious king in this armor would have looked if he had received it ... Illustration from the book by Liliana and Fred Funkenov “Encyclopedia of weapons and military costume. Middle Ages. Renaissance: Infantry. Cavalry. Artillery. M .: Astrel, 2002, p. 107

He was ordered in 1562, and both attempts to seduce the marriage with his special designated ladies from Eric failed because of the war with Denmark. Moreover, he did not receive the armor itself. Since the jeweler Liberts was captured in 1565 during his trip to Sweden on the orders of the Danish king Frederick II, along with this armor, which became a good booty. He was offered the post of Chief Medalist of the Danish Kingdom, and in this post he remained in Denmark until 1572. And the set remained in Copenhagen until Christian II of Saxony in 1604 bought it for 8800 guilders from the jeweler Heinrich Knop for his younger brother and then Elector of Saxony Johann George I, probably on the occasion of his wedding to Sibylla Elizabeth Württemberg September 16, 1604. Well, after the death of the Elector in 1611 and up to the present, the armor was kept in the Armory of the city of Dresden and today it is deservedly considered its decoration.

This is how they look today on display at the Armory of the State Art Collection in Dresden. Photo of the author

The complete set includes an armé helmet, gorget, cuirass, shoulder pads, elbow pads, bracers with gloves, tapes, legguards, knee pads, greaves and sabatons. Along with all this, the set also included horse armor, which consisted of a chanfron (forehead), a neutral (bib), a crinet - a lamellar neck protection, a flanchard - two side plates and a bib. The saddle, by the way, was also included in this headset.

Front view of this headset. What a gorgeous horse mask with convex eyecups, and even with curly slits on them. Just some kind of a riot of fantasy. And most importantly - all around gold, gold and gold again! Photo of the author

Wanting to appear before Queen Elizabeth in luxurious armor and thereby impress her (and it was not at all an easy task to stand out in the crowd of her courtiers, also dressed in armor), Eric XIV tried to order something completely luxurious and impressive. And I ordered it! All parts of the armor are adorned with lush decor of leaves throughout the surface. In addition, the surface of the metal is decorated with flower garlands, butterflies, birds, snakes, dolphins, fruits, images of weapons, as well as musical putti, sphinxes, griffins and masks, and in addition, chased images in round and oval frames. There are eight medallions on knightly armor and fourteen on horse armor. And although the rider's armor bears motifs from the legends of Troy and the Argonauts, and Hercules' exploits are depicted only on horse armor, the set is nevertheless called the “Armor of Hercules”, apparently due to the larger size of the horse medallions. In any case, all this was supposed to indicate the heroic qualities of Eric XIV and clearly demonstrate them. By the way, the patterns for the armor were taken from the drawings of Etienne Delon (1518-1583), a famous French draftsman-ornamentalist, medalist, engraver and jeweler, whose "small ornaments" were very much appreciated and were widely used by gunsmiths to decorate the most luxurious armor of that time.

The equipment for the horse was extremely complex and consisted of many parts connected to one another with rivets. The total weight of the horse armor reached 31,762 kg. Whereas armor for a person is 22,262 kg. Photo of the author

For some reason, oval medallions symmetrically distributed on horse armor are located for some reason not in the chronological order of Hercules' feats, but depict a dichotomy of the twelve feats of Hercules, which he performed somewhere by force, and partly by cunning.

Hercules defeats the Cretan bull. Photo of the author

History exploits begins on the left side of the flankard, when Hercules, as a child, strangled Hera's serpent. Hercules' fight against the Nemean lion is shown on a medallion on the right side of the breastplate. So there is no sequence of events on horse armor.

What monster is Hercules dealing with here? But with the one to whom they gave the princess Hesion, the daughter of the Trojan king Laomedont. Her father was forced to sacrifice her to the sea monster, which Poseidon sent to the city, and Hercules killed him and saved the girl! Photo of the author

The taming of the horses of Diomedes takes place on the upper right side of the head, and in the same place the abduction of Geryon's bulls. Moreover, it is funny that for some reason the exile of the centaurs is depicted on the central medallion of the horse breastplate: and this story, connected with the wedding of Pirithous, the king of the Lapiths, does not belong to the canonical exploits of Hercules.

And here is the medallion on which we see Atlanta and Hercules - the latter undoubtedly depicts King Eric himself, who, with a crown on his head, nails a star into the sky in the constellation Leo - a clear allusion to his coronation in 1561! Photo of the author

This is the same close-up image. Photo of the author

The image of the god of war Mars on the medallion on the right shoulder pad of knightly armor should symbolize strength, courage and cunning, and also hints at the then popular "theory" of the origin of the Swedes from ... the Trojans, on whose side Mars just fought in the Trojan War.

The armor set for the rider and his horse also included a saddle. The collection of the Dresden Armory contains many knightly saddles, decorated in a completely luxurious manner ... Photo by the author

At the same time, the style of the saddle (and stirrups!) Exactly matched the design of the rider's armor and horse armor! Photo of the author

The winged horse Pegasus on the visor of the helmet arme should pay attention to the poetic gift of Eric XIV, because he was considered the patron saint of poets and rhetoricians. Here we see a direct allusion to the king's eloquence, so placing him on the visor near the mouth is not at all accidental.

In general, in the Dresden Armory there is an astonishingly many beautifully made armor, and the "riders" dressed in them sit on equally beautiful, well, just like living horses! For example, one of such luxurious headsets is the ceremonial armor of Christian I of Saxony, made by master Anton Peffenhauser. And yet, the armor of King Eric XIV among them is probably the most beautiful! Photo of the author

That is, the armor of both the knight himself and his horse, with all available means of visualizing images, hinted at both the high and purely royal dignities of its owner. But ... it was with this armor that he was most unlucky. It's a shame that he never even saw him ...

PS About how armor was already used in antiquity as an important means of PR, you can also read in the "Military Review" in the author's article: "PR ancient shell».

Comments

[The leader of the Redskins]

Thank goodness there is something to read in the morning.
Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. Good day to you! I could not even imagine that such beauty exists!

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Hi all!
I join Igor's words and wishes !!!!
To be honest, I didn't even think about how hard the fate of a medieval monarch is, if you want to get married - spend on armor for yourself and your horse!
However, the competition for reduction and Elizabeth's heart was notable, remember only one Ivan the Terrible IV.

[kalibr]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

I could not even imagine that such beauty exists!

And a good day to you! I couldn't either ... until I saw it live. He stood ... and could not help but gasp or sigh. Then he didn't start filming. By the way, it was impossible to shoot from all sides there. There is little room in their ward. We must give more to this armor!

[Richard]

However, he was perhaps most famous not at all for their concerns and not even for popular rumor, but for the works of the Antwerp jeweler Eliza Liberts.

Most of all, he is known for the fact that he began to issue the first gold coin in the history of Sweden - the so-called. Hungarian guilder Eric XIV.

[Richard]

Perhaps this is how this illustrious king in this armor would have looked if he had received it ... Illustration from the book by Liliana and Fred Funkenov “Encyclopedia of weapons and military costume.

No, Vyacheslav Olegovich, he wouldn't look like that.
Extremely inclined to astrological predictions, Eric XIV always had only one suit of horses - black. Gustav Eriksson Vasa, the son of Erik XIV and Karin Monsdotter, also wrote about this; the failed groom of Ksenia Godunova,
Konrad Bussov in the Moscow Chronicle and the Piskarevsky Chronicler.
Prince Gustav of Sweden inherited both the talents and shortcomings of his father, knew a large number of languages ​​and was very well versed in astrology and alchemy, proud of being called "the new Paracelsus" (he was more proud of this nickname than the title of prince), and as well as the father did not recognize other horses except black ones. The impostor False Dmitry largely used elements of the adventurous biography of Prince Gustav when creating his own legend and also rode only on black horses

[Richard]

On September 29, 1568, when little Gustav was not even 8 months old, Eric was overthrown by his brother Johan. In 1573, by order of the new king, Karin and her children were separated from Eric, who lived with them in prison, and were sent under house arrest in Abo Castle in Finland. Gustav remained in Abo until 1575, when, by order of Johan, who saw him as a possible pretender to the throne, he was separated from his family and sent to Poland (whose queen was the sister of Johan's wife, Anna Jagiellonka) to the Jesuits, without the right to appear in Sweden. Gustav received an excellent Jesuit education. Karamzin writes about him:

"He knew languages ​​other than Swedish and Slavic, Italian, German, French; he saw a lot in the world, with a curious mind, and spoke pleasantly."

Ivan the Terrible, first trying to free the ousted Eric XIV from imprisonment (thanks to which a tougher regime was applied to the king), also had in mind Gustav's rights to the throne of Sweden and intended to use him to change the political situation in the Baltic, but his plans were not implemented. And in 1585, according to Nikolai Varkoch, Boris Godunov and Tsar Fyodor Ioannovich unsuccessfully lured Gustav to Moscow.
Then Gustav occupied a prominent place in the political constructions of Tsar Boris Godunov, who began negotiations with him about the hand of his daughter almost immediately after the accession. Boris wanted to make Livonia a vassal kingdom and put Gustav at its head.
In August 1599, Gustav went to Moscow, where Kaluga and three other cities were promised to him as an inheritance. On August 19, Gustav solemnly entered Moscow. Boris promised him the protection of Russia and the hand of his daughter. However, living in the capital in anticipation of the wedding, Prince Gustav behaved extremely scandalously, wrote out his mistress, called Catherine in Russian sources, as well as their children, and openly lived with her
Boris tried to end this scandal, but the prince multiplied his extravagances and more evil antics and did not want to be baptized [into Orthodoxy], as promised, ”. Tsar Boris ordered to announce to the prince that his behavior was not worthy of the title of royal son and refused to give his beloved daughter for him. But they did not kick him back for this - to wander around Poland, although they took away the already granted Kaluga with three cities. In 1601 he was separated from his concubine and sent to Uglich, where he was granted a nominal appanage principality, "quietly engaged in chemistry there." The estate was ruled by a nobleman appointed by the king, and Gustav only got income. After Godunov's death, the Moscow ruler False Dmitry I, under pressure from his ally Sigismund III, who remembered the claims of his cousin, ordered Gustav to be transported to Yaroslavl and kept as a prisoner. It is also indicated that the Polish king asked Gustav to kill, but False Dmitry chose to leave him alive as an instrument of influence. When Vasily Shuisky ascended the throne, Gustav was transferred to Kashin, where he was again treated like a prince. He died at the age of 38 in 1607 in Kashin. He was buried in the monastery of Demetrius of Thessaloniki on February 22, 1607, according to the chronicle of Bussov, by pastor Martin Ber from Neustadt, who writes that he himself buried Gustav in the monastery of Demetrius of Thessaloniki and received 20 rubles as a reward for this:

Unwittingly transported then to Yaroslavl, and then to Kashin, this unfortunate Prince died in 1607. His solitary grave in a beautiful birch grove, on the banks of the Kashinka, was seen by the famous Swedish Warlord Jacob de la Gardie and the Envoy of Charles IX Petreus during the reign of Tsar Basilius Shuisky

[Korsar4]

Very interesting. I didn’t know everything. Lucky us on the metress Ekaterin from the West.

[kalibr]

This is not a comment to me, but to Liliana and Fred Funkens! They drew it!

[Free wind]

Spending money on a not-so-beautiful madam, dressing not her, but yourself? Doubtful idea. Bubble shmurdyak and in the bushes. Why waste your kingdom treasury?

[kalibr]

Quote: Free Wind

Why waste your kingdom treasury?

It was necessary! Accepted! It was considered the norm! If he had acted differently, they would have thought: A - poor, B - crazy. People did not think otherwise! They just didn't know how! Why did poor Peter the Great buy feathers in Europe for the hats of his officers and the Empress's Life Guards? And then: we are no worse! Although he could have kicked the cocks ...

[Free wind]

With today's roosters, peacocks bashfully hide their tails. Maybe in the cliffs.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: Free Wind

Spending money on a not-so-beautiful madam, dressing not her, but yourself? Doubtful idea. Bubble shmurdyak and in the bushes. Why waste your kingdom treasury?

Madame did not have a feeble dowry.

[Free wind]

Here I am about the identity. Mamzel had an idea that the pretzel laid the floor of the kingdom for show-off and her dowry. You have to be simpler, simpler, and people will be drawn to you. It takes an hour to remove such a mac, lumbering like a dump truck at a ferrous metal station. Drove up to a friend, lifted her cryoline and all the cases. Learn from Rasputin.

[Bolt cutter]

Here is what armor you need to wear to the queen And then the Hercules, gold .. The queen has gold and her own

[Free wind]

Photos are not quite white, with bamboo covers would be in the subject.

[Bolt cutter]

In those glorious times, not quite whites came to Europe only after purchase. Again, not presentable - a piece of wood

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

After such armor and a queen, you don't want it ....)))

[Bolt cutter]

I'll have to wear this one then

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

No ... thank you.) I have my own "armor" and my queen will come home from work soon.) Here's my mother-in-law somewhere to attach ..) My father-in-law and I are happy.)

[Crimea26]

It is logical - and there is something to hold on to! It is immediately clear that you are holding the THING!

[Korsar4]

Not everyone can be Rzhevsky's lieutenants.

Although the classic "Stretch your legs by clothes" has not been canceled.

[mr.ZinGer]

And Madame and the gentleman are gone, but the armor is there.

[Free wind]

Our train was approaching the cherished goal. The lieutenant wants to, madam no longer, our lieutenant was lying all naked, with a swollen member and without a boot. The song was like that in childhood.

[Catfish]

Good morning friends!
Thanks to Vyacheslav for the new article, I read it with great interest. But I didn't like Eric's armor at all, no, every single detail is good thanks to the talent of the master performer, but all together it gives the impression of a complete merchant bad taste, too much gold and too many small details that "break the eye". It is clear that the armor was not made for combat, but still the sense of proportion never harmed anyone at all times.
Merchant samovar, damn it.

[Korsar4]

But all the same, beauty. Who is not satisfied with the samovar?

[kalibr]

Well, let's say I don't like this samovar either. This is a utilitarian thing and is beautiful for that. Therefore, I will not beat the carved and gilded guns and pistols. They should be beautiful to others ...

[Korsar4]

For a gift option - quite.

[kalibr]

Quote: Sea Cat

full of merchant bad taste, too much gold and too many small details,

The era of mannerism. There is nothing you can do against public opinion. SO ACCEPTED. There is no other way. In the era of classicism, everything will be different, however, then there was already no armor ...

[Catfish]

But there were plenty of bright rags and other jewelry.

[3x3zsave]

too many small details "breaking the eye"
Not without it. However, I will note that you want to look at Bruegel's paintings for hours, and Glazunov - not very much. Apparently, the point is in the way information is presented.

[Catfish]

Hello Anton.

Apparently, the point is in the way information is presented.

I think, not only in this, the way of perception of this world is important, and then the transfer of impressions to the canvas. Bruegel is an Artist, Glazunov is a photographer (no offense to the masters of the photo workshop, be it said).
In the summer of 69, I was at the first Glazunov exhibition in the country and I was a little conquered by overly mannered entries in the guestbook, like this one: "Thank you for the Russian Peasant." The guy worked for a certain audience. And his painting was somehow not very good, as one friend of mine said: Ilyusha writes according to the principle - "hands in pockets, feet in the grass", because neither one nor the other can draw. Aivazovsky with human figures was also not very good, but everything else is simply amazing, and Ilyusha somehow nothing at all.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

And the tsar's carriage, in the Kremlin armory? .. That's where art is!

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

And the tsar's carriage, in the Kremlin armory? .. That's where art is!

Yes, but who will allow me to use their photo?

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

I don't even know .. Personally, in the 90s, I photographed there. Photos of the exhibits are still at home.

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

Personally, in the 90s, I photographed there. Photos of the exhibits are still at home.

Andrey Nikolaevich! Well, what are you? Should I go to Moscow specifically to shoot there? Through glass? Without a flash ... Who will need such photos. By the way, you still have to pay for the shooting. But you WILL NOT BUY high-quality museum photos from their site!
And that your photos are of the same quality as these?

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Well you, of course not! I didn't mean to offend you. Sorry. The photo quality is of course wonderful. Simply, if the opportunity arises, go and take a look. Now, the carriage (there are two of them) under glass. When I was there, there was no glass. But what struck me most was the taste and ingenuity of the craftsmen who made one of the carriages (for 9 horses). A collar in the shape of a two-headed eagle is put on the neck of the central horse in the first three. Very elegant and meaningful. I am not even talking about manual cutting of each, the details of the carriage. As for my photos, they are just on photographic paper. Made with a film soap dish.

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

I didn’t mean to offend you.

What grudges, what are you talking about? You just do not know the realities of all these cases. That's all. So this is just you, do not be offended by my harshness. Some of our famous museums are straining me. Like a red rag ... And about carriages ... about carriages, maybe there will be.

[tlauicol]

Beauty! I've never seen or heard of such

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

On the contrary, I read several times about the ceremonial armor with the "exploits of Hercules", but I have never seen a photograph.
The armor is chic, although I like the white armor of Maximilian. More utilitarian probably.

[tlauicol]

I like the dark armor of Gattamelata. Uv. The author wrote about them

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

I agree black with gold notch looks just amazing.

[Korsar4]

Black in general goes well with many things. One Jolly Roger is worth something.

[kalibr]

I saw the chic Maximilian armor in the Hluboka castle in the Czech Republic. Without glass, at arm's length, but "you can't shoot." And I have not a fotik, but a black coffin, it will immediately catch the eye ... And to say success to my granddaughter with an iPhone, I did not know what was waiting for me in the castle corridor. By the way, now the Internet is full of photos with the interiors of this castle - you can see. But there is still no armor!

[Undecim]

I saw the chic Maximilian armor in the Hluboka castle in the Czech Republic.
Maybe these?

[kalibr]

I can't say, I don't remember ...

[Cat]

More utilitarian probably.

By the oversizedness of the armor, they judged the rank of the wearer, i.e., whether he has the right to give orders. For a king or a constable there, to put on a simple armor is like for a modern general staff general to put on a cap and ensign shoulder straps instead of an "airfield" on struts and stripes. If they don’t laugh, they will have it

[yehat2]

this is actually the ceiling of the development of armor before the advent of firearms and mass armament with crossbows. It is very difficult to pierce it with a chopping weapon. These were made mainly in Italy in Venice.

[Korsar4]

As everyone wants to happen from Trojans.
What - did Aeneas get to modern Sweden?

[kalibr]

I don’t know how they explained it, but, apparently, they came up with something ... Odyssey, however, where only the will of the gods did not bring. And why is Aeneas worse?

[Korsar4]

So on Aeneas and Rome claimed.

Kipling:
“The oak foliage was alive,
Before the flight of Aeneas from Troy. "

[No name B]

So Aeneas is zhezh ukrainets, even Kotlyarevsky wrote a whole Aeneid, when they read in class at school, laughing with the whole class, I recommend reading it in Ukrainian)))

[Korsar4]

I saw pieces in Russian. They responded that it was a talented thing.

[Cat]

Pieces in Russian

Not, not that. In the original, all the relish. Actually, this is not a modern Ukrainian, but the then Little Russian surzhik

[Korsar4]

Probably. I put it on my reading list.

[3x3zsave]

Odyssey, where only the will of the gods did not bring
Yes, in fact, it did not bring it further than the eastern Mediterranean.
Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

[Korsar4]

As they stopped recognizing the paddle, he returned home.

[Catfish]

It was not Helgi and Ingami who went to Aeneas to get the offspring for divorce.

[Korsar4]

“For our century we go
How Creusa followed Aeneas.
Let's go a little and weaken.
If we decrease a step, we are lagging behind ”(c).

[Catfish]

"The way is clear for our battalions,
The way is clear for the assault columns! "(C)

[Korsar4]

“Soldiers are walking across Ukraine
Group Center "(c).

[Catfish]

"A rare bird will fly to the middle of the Dnieper" (c)

[Korsar4]

“Two silent birds,
Probably runaways "(c).

[Catfish]

"A tramp ran from Sakhalin
Beastly narrow path. "(C)

[Korsar4]

"The edge of the earth,
Like a snag on water thrown ”(c).

[Catfish]

"And I throw stones from the steep bank
Distant Strait of La Perouse "(c)

[Korsar4]

"And the river runs over the pebbles" (c).

[Catfish]

"Chapaev-hero walked in the Urals" (c)

[Korsar4]

“A young Cossack is walking along the Don” (c).

[Catfish]

"The Cossack rode through the valley
The ring glittered on the hand "(c)

[Korsar4]

"Whose hand is this ring from?" (with).

[Catfish]

"The Cossack gave the ring
When the Cossack went on a campaign "(c)

[Korsar4]

"Fear the Danes, who bring gifts" (c).

[Catfish]

"Once he received a fee for God's gift,
In Lukomorye, fumes per hectare "(c)

[Korsar4]

"As they breathed in fumes -
It smacks a mile away ”(c).

[Catfish]

"And miles and, and many centuries have flown by" (c)

[Korsar4]

"Remember, perhaps youth,
The one that flew by ”(c).

[Catfish]

"Here the bullet flew and yeah ..." (c)

[Cat]

.. and as an epilogue:
"Whistled and fell on the table
I ate a little, but rolled down ... "(c)

[Catfish]

"And she was lying on the floor,
Until the janitor, therefore, did not sweep it. "(S. almost)))

[Korsar4]

As Anton would say:
“Fi, dad. Well, what a bad taste you have ”(c).

[Catfish]

"Tastes, brother, are not Russian,
Father spoke, blushing "(c)

[Korsar4]

In the original source, my father was gloomy, but by our age, probably, you will blush more often.

“What a commission, Creator,
To be a father to an adult daughter! " (with).

[depressant]

Yes! And generally speaking...
From vagants - and how fresh!

Lies and anger rule the world.
Conscience is stifled, the truth is poisoned
the law is dead, honor is slain
indecent affairs can not be counted.
Locked, locked doors
kindness, love and faith.
Wisdom teaches these days:
steal and cheat!
A friend in need leaves a friend
spouse is lying to a spouse,
and brother sells brother.
This is the depravity!
"Come out, dear, on the path,
I'll substitute a leg for you ", -
grinning prude
holding a knife in his bosom.
What a little time it is!
No order, no peace
and the Lord’s Son is with us
crucified again - for the umpteenth time!

[Catfish]

I don’t know, this is not about my environment.

"There, at the very edge of the board
A friend will cover a friend
A friend is always ready to give in
Place in the boat and circle "(c)

[depressant]

Three tankmen - three funny friends, the crew of a combat vehicle! Although, however, you are a sailor. On the other hand, the situation with the boat could also concern a group of tankers. But for a knight in armor, the circle is useless. And even a boat. Give in, don't give in. Probably, axes went to the bottom.

[Catfish]

Good afternoon, Lyudmila.

In the army - a tanker, after service he divers, but I can't call myself a sailor, real Moremans will be offended.
As for the knights, I don’t know, there were several underwater expeditions on Lake Peipsi and they didn’t find anything except the engine from the "Junkers", so how they drowned there is not known to anyone and whether they drowned at all - too.

And if with a romantic bias, then:

"The knights are sleeping, their swords are rusting,
Only rarely do any of them wake up
And he will knock on people from the grave ... "(c)

[depressant]

Kostya, evening, good evening!)))
Here I must add some clarification. On the article about armor yesterday I did not mark, so as not to interfere with the outpouring of enthusiasm by pouring out her own iad, heavily mixed with malice. For me, this armor of Hercules is an unacceptable waste of the treasury, and only fragments have artistic value, not forming a single artistic whole. And I imagined how Gustav, dressed in this armor, choking under their weight, shouts out under the balcony of a potential wife in a rough soldier's voice:

Everything in your honor, everything for your sake!
I humbly ask for only one thing,
Allow for the sake of your eyes
Fight with a word, brilliance of phrases
And poetic pranks
That are sad and funny sometimes
But always witty!

And behind the horse is a poet hiding, prompting the lines. Unfortunately, it was not possible to establish the name of the poet. However, I will rummage in Yandex, I will find it. But what is the truth! In a real battle, this will not work, only in words! It's good that the armor did not reach the addressee. Rather, rightly)))

[3x3zsave]

yells out under the balcony of a potential wife in a rough soldier's voice
"Oh, come out, come out, come out, Agrafena!
Listen to the serenade about love! "(C)

[Catfish]

... only fragments are of artistic value, not forming a single artistic whole.

Well, we talked about this there yesterday, neither I, nor Anton "were not suffocating with delight."
This is also pretentious, pretentious and even beautiful in places, but, in comparison with the aforementioned armor, the weapon has not lost its functionally murderous qualities.

[depressant]

Gothic from a horror movie, tin! A feeble folded-membranous old man, bats, zombies, or a stylistic image of the devil, a skull, a wolf's face and on the handle - a portrait of a clearly deceased ... What do people have with their heads? So much work and such a strange exhaust.

[3x3zsave]

"The Middle Ages are in the yard,
Obscurantism and jazz! "(C)

[Catfish]

So much work and such a strange exhaust.

And this depends on who the gift is made for. For example, for the chef of "Escuadrones de la muerte Brasil" the present is just what you need.

[depressant]

Today was a very strange day.
First I found a sombrero full of money.
Then some evil guy with a guitar was chasing me.

[Catfish]

"On an old mare with a donkey on a bit
I go to Montana, I lead sheep
.................................................. ...
Colt has a rope tied up
And the hat was eaten by an insatiable donkey "(c)

They have a really fun life there, you will get jealous.

[3x3zsave]

"They were smashed, the song is the guarantee,
Unbreakable by its codlo
Three dentists, three funny friends,
Solomon, Abram and Moses! "(C)

[Catfish]

"But will suppress the firing points
Without staining the field uniform
Three tankmen, Chaim the machine gunner,
The crew of the combat vehicle. "(C)

[Phil77]

* You're lying, you won't take it! * - thought Frederick the First * Barbarossa * when he was drowning in the river. * Eh, the armor is heavy! * - was his last thought.

But * whose brushes * the picture dedicated to his death, I do not know.

[depressant]

Seryozha, you will not believe, only now has come to her senses - so in the morning it has become sick. I wanted to write "oklemalas", but suddenly the well-bred Anton will appear (or was it the well-bred Misha?). Will appear and remember me "peasants" on Austerlitz - I had to squat in curtsies and do knixens ((( )))

[Phil77]

It pleases. As for * oklemala *. Yes, through the efforts of our brother- * drunk *, the meaning of this word is somewhat ambiguous. It is what it is.
Do not be ill, dear Lyudmila Yakovlevna! * The company * and the site need you.

[depressant]

Seryozha !!! ))))
"Your opinion is valuable to us!" I tried to remember who said so - I don't remember! Probably because, besides you, no one has ever told me that I represent some kind of usefulness. And this is with my full conviction that each of those present is a thousand times more useful than me. And I beg you, do not convince me otherwise, so as not to break the integrity of my attitude. .. So who says "Your opinion is valuable to us?"

[Phil77]

The answer to your question. * Your opinion is very important to us * - this is what the electronic woman says from the phone when you are waiting for an answer.

[3x3zsave]

"Pull yourself together, daughter of a samurai!" (WITH)

[depressant]

"Caesar - Caesar, samurai - hara-kiri, and the daughter of a samurai - joint and daiquiri")))))

[3x3zsave]

Boldly!
"And you and I are going to a friend,
And "Belomor" in a circle,
And we take the guitar
And we begin to sing! "(C)

[Korsar4]

Or Shakespeare:

“The evil tongue will forget gossip,
The moneylender will bury money ... "

[Catfish]

"And from different mothers
Has taken root forty daughters "(c)

[Korsar4]

“Monastic is known for his behavior” (c).

[Catfish]

The monk cooks an egg on a candle. The abbot suddenly enters.
Monk at the feet: --Father, forgive me, the devil has beguiled ...
Demon from under the bench: - I would not have thought of this ...

[Korsar4]

“The monastery is good for everyone, but from the face - a vacant lot” (c).

[Catfish]

"... There is nothing around, the desert is dead and the heavens above it ..." (c)

[Korsar4]

“Planet Shelezyak. There are no minerals, no water, no vegetation, inhabited by robots ”(c).

[Catfish]

“Planet Shelezyak. There are no minerals, no water, no vegetation, inhabited by robots ”(c).

Produces port "Iveria" (c. 2p.42kop)

[3x3zsave]

This is definitely not drying oil?

[Catfish]

It's definitely not her, but you can paint the fence!

[3x3zsave]

Stain on alcohol solution.

[Catfish]

I'm not sure about alcohol, but it hits the balls specifically. I know what I'm saying.

[3x3zsave]

"But shame!"

[Catfish]

"Yavol, Minhertz !!!"

[3x3zsave]

"It is an art to move forward,
Without overtaking anyone, always be the first,
First, like the one who follows him,
There are only rails and wires ahead "(C)

[Catfish]

There are only rails ahead

"My address is not a house or a street,
My address is the Soviet Union "(c)

[3x3zsave]

"She ran away from me again
The last train,
And I'm on the sleepers, again on the sleepers
I'll go home as usual "(C)

[Catfish]

"And the train was packed full of
And I ran along the sleepers on foot,
On sleepers, damn it, on sleepers ... "(c)

[3x3zsave]

"On the tundra, by rail,
Where the courier "Vorkuta-Leningrad" "(C)

[Catfish]

"Taiga law, prosecutor bear!" (with)

[depressant]

... thoughts of any MAN (the word has been changed, note of the copywriter) is always driven not alone, but in the company. With a bottle. Because otherwise you can go crazy. And with her it is easier. And even if it is not so, then it will be much worse. But after all, when you sober up and the hangover starts to tear your head from the inside, you can buy another bottle. And one more. And more ... Until the money runs out ...

Dmitry Sillov, "The Law of the Hunter".

How do you think I know the word "daiquiri"?

[3x3zsave]

I'm more interested in how you know the word "joint" ...

[depressant]

Yes, easily! Shoals or doses are sold in the house opposite the Tajiks. The consumer of jambs lives on the same staircase with me, the door is opposite. I read the literature and the press in which this word appears. I can hear it pronounced in films and on the street. I live in the real world, and therefore I know that the joint is a cigarette from which the tobacco was shaken out and the cartridge case was filled with marijuana. And marijuana is a type of cannabis that some people in my village grow at home. I also know that Tyva is a large cannabis producer.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: depressant

Yes, easily! Shoals or doses are sold in the house opposite the Tajiks. The shoal consumer lives on the same staircase with me

Dear Lyudmila Yakovlevna! You just fall under the "smoke" of your neighbor in the stairwell and no press and literature will save you. For a Tajik, charsik is like kefir for you Do you remember the movie "White Sun of the Desert", when after the explosion the caps of the local elderly Dykhans flew off, but they shouldn't have a shit? I also did not understand until a certain moment And then I realized, they even tried in the sense of banging, the effect is the same, they are strongly attracted by this thing since childhood, hence the philosophy is different.
But why don't the authorities stop this filth?
this is the question.

[depressant]

Dear Colleague Stop Cutter!
Are you asking me about this?)))
On the topic of medieval war armor, I would prefer to find out if hemp was used as a means of maintaining the fighting spirit of the armor wearers.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: depressant

In the Middle Ages, I would have preferred to know if hemp was used as a means of maintaining the fighting spirit of the wearers of armor.

Ha, more than once I have seen characteristic features in old images. I must again note the order sects, where dope is traditional. Well, after Columbus with his Indian "pipe of peace" in the form of coca, there is no question, some "eagles" instead of wings have a sign of grass.
I think that from time immemorial tranquilizers have been used to raise the spirit, and possibly for the curvature of consciousness, different decoctions, wormwood-grass and further along the plot. And try swinging an 8-kg sword without stopping for a leak. 10 minutes and it's just waving, and then you have to dodge and beat your heads.
I think that only Russians and Germans can be considered as clean armies in this sense, and here and there Narkov's 100 grams.
But what are our authorities using? Kalambia Pictures does not represent ...

[kalibr]

Quote: Stroporez

swing an 8 kg sword

This is you in vain: 1, 1,4 - 3 kg maximum!

[Sling cutter]

Quote: kalibr

This is you in vain: 1, 1,4 - 3 kg maximum!

Good morning) In time I will take a picture of a really raised sword in the museum.

[kalibr]

And I don't even need to take a picture of 8 kg. Weighed two-handed stoves from the Guard of Edward of Wales, 2, 26 m long. And there was no more.

[Trilobite Master]

You are clearly beguiled something, dear.

Quote: Stroporez

more than once met the characteristic features of old images

It would be interesting to see examples of such images.
It would also be interesting to get acquainted with the sources telling about the use of drugs in knightly orders.

Quote: Stroporez

tranquilizers have been used to lift spirits

This, excuse me, how? Tranquilizers are, roughly speaking, a sedative.
I assure you, it is simply impossible to fight while under the influence of drugs. I didn’t take drugs, but I’ve seen enough of drug addicts - they are still warriors.
The only clear information about the systematic use of drugs relates, as far as I remember, to the assassins. But these are by no means warriors.
Legends about berserkers with their fly-agaric broths are nothing more than legends. To be convinced of this, it is enough to swallow the fly agaric broth.

Quote: Stroporez

try swinging an 8 kg sword

The author of the article has already pointed out the error to you, I can only join him. There were no such swords.
.

Quote: Stroporez

as clean armies in this sense

All is fair in war. If one of the parties neglects certain opportunities to gain an advantage over the enemy, it is stupidity. Neither the Germans nor the Russians were fools. Chemistry was used by both.

Quote: Stroporez

But what are our authorities using?

Why is this here? Why the heck did you write that? Why emphasize your stupidity in this way?

[depressant]

The priest is stopped by a traffic cop.
- Father, did you drink something?
- Only water.
- And, in my opinion, you smell of wine ...
- Lord, you did it again!

[Catfish]

"- Lord, give reason to God's servant Alexei, for he does not know what he is doing!" (C)

[3x3zsave]

"God is one, providers are different" (C)

[Korsar4]

“But these were still flowers” ​​(c).

[Catfish]

"Then I don't remember, I got to the point" (c)

[depressant]

From the drinking song of the Renaissance:
...
"The owner drinks, the mistress drinks,
The brothers and the gang are drinking,
Drinks a new one, drinks a new one,
The ignoramus drinks, the scientist drinks,
The monk and the knight also drink,
The bishop and the noble drink,
Drinks and sober, and a drunkard,
The master drinks, the servant drinks too;

Both the homebody and the wanderer drink,
And an unknown exile
Drinks and old, drinks and small,
Drinks and naughty, drinks and sluggish,
Grandma drinks, grandfather drinks,
Both mother and neighbor,
The rich drink, the beggar drinks,
Hundreds are whipping, thousands are whipping. "

[Catfish]

"Someone has been instructed not to drink,
To another, where and with whom, when, and how many bowls to share,
When four conditions are all met,
Reasonable men, of course, will drink. "(C)

[3x3zsave]

"Both the mechanic and the taxi driver,
And an honored artist,
Healer, baker and pharmacist,
And the naval gunner
Both the maiden and the widow,
And barely married
They love this business
Well, why hide ?! "(C)

[depressant]

Protest.
(Coughing solidly)

The poor drink beer modestly.
The rich whip the wine
Not remembering in their Maldives,
What is given to them
See the bottom overnight.
Not because I am very angry -
There is such a geology.
The fragments of paradise will go to the bottom,
And money piles won't help.

[3x3zsave]

Protest.
To no avail.
"But, just, the ashes of your cigarettes,
These are the ashes of empires "(C)

[Catfish]

"But you know, the sky
Getting closer;
Look - the sky
getting closer
Every day. "(C)

[Catfish]

The fragments of paradise will go to the bottom,
And money piles won't help.

Most of them somehow believe that they will live forever.

[Catfish]

It seems to me that it’s not about booze and your poetry at all.

"How can I explain this,
So as not to anger at all
Praying important fool
Too prim censorship? "(C)

[depressant]

This is what I told you today, Kostya. Yesterday, stunned, she said nothing, not knowing how to understand your phrase:

"It seems to me that it is not about drinking and your poetry at all."

This is not poetry, this is my impromptu in rhymed form. Yes, it's not about drinking, but it seemed to me (sometimes I'm dull) that you have doubts about the authorship. There is a very simple way to check. You copy, if not all, then at least a couple of lines, and type them into the Yandex search line. If there is an author different from me, then the search engine will give it to you. If not, it will give out a bunch of topics on the Maldives or some other topics, depending on which lines you typed.
When I say “don’t believe me,” I am allowing me not to believe, but at the same time I am not asking to believe that I am capable of intellectual theft.
You see, Kostya, how difficult it is to understand one person to another, and the one who is at a loss is not you. And do not worry about the answer: she wound herself and untwisted herself. It's just a brain exercise to tone your own goodwill. )))

[Catfish]

This is what I told you today, Kostya. Yesterday, stunned, she said nothing, not knowing how to understand your phrase:
"It seems to me that it is not about drinking and your poetry at all."

Lyuda, this was not addressed to you, but to Anton, I had no doubts about the authorship of your poems and I will not check anything.

[Korsar4]

“At first I was not drunk,
I objected twice ”(c).

[Catfish]

"I went out into the street cheerful and drunk,
In a red shirt, comely and blush "(c)

[Korsar4]

"The young widow
He lives in a small farm "(c).

[Catfish]

"The house is two-storey.
Lived in native Moscow
The widow is a young merchant,
The face is blush and white. "(C)

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Sea Cat

"The house is two-storey.
Lived in native Moscow
The widow is a young merchant,
The face is blush and white. "(C)

You, Comrades, took all the fighters from us on the non-departmental branches, and now you are seducing our Holy One, the Depressant!
what kind of people? Leave Tatra alone! Do not touch normal people with your propaganda anomalous liberda !!! If you screw up, Gundyaev will give you anathema to try.
PySy. MikadoO full hello, from the Soul

[Catfish]

We leave the mentioned brand of Czechoslovak auto, colleague, exclusively for you, I am not interested in this manufacturer of dump trucks, as well as ladies with a complete absence of a brain, a noble Corsair, all the more. Who else, if not our valiant landing party, defend a simple Soviet man in the street from the invasion of foreign cars and grumpy women.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Sea Cat

Colleague, we leave the brand of Czechoslovak car you mentioned exclusively for you, I am not interested in this dump truck manufacturer

Comrade, everything is individual, to whom dump trucks, and to whom the first Czech red trams instead of wooden ones, so that everything is learned in comparison And the valiant landing, he is always on the alert, can create a conflict, however, it can also extinguish, exclusively by the power of fortitude, reason, talent, and of any other jazz compositions

[Catfish]

I have always loved the old "wooden" Moscow tram, but ... You are right - "Jedem das Seine".

"The parachutes jerked and took on their weight, throwing clouds up to the sky,
And below the divisions "Edelweiss" and "Death's Head".
Machine guns howled in frost, pistols fired point-blank,
And the dead sun on the slings of birches prevented the conversation. "(C)

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Sea Cat

"The parachutes jerked and took on their weight, throwing clouds up to the sky,

"And where can you find one saint who went to the landing!"

[depressant]

Depressant, leaning his gun against the wall and yawning:
"The guard is tired!" (C)

[Sling cutter]

Quote: depressant

Depressant, leaning his gun against the wall and yawning:
"The guard is tired!" (C)

Depressant-Zheleznyakova ???!

[depressant]

... they didn't know what the Yellowstone volcano could explode and cover the globe on a multi-year night. They did not know that the asteroid Apophis could crash into the Earth and destroy life on it. They did not know that the exploded Betelgeuse could sterilize the Earth with its radiation. They did not know that global warming was approaching, turning previously fertile lands into a desert, as well as a global cooling, covering the land with ice of many kilometers thickness. They did not know...

They didn’t know much, and therefore they had simple concepts. When it was said that the guard was tired, it meant that the guard was tired of guarding what should be destroyed, and the guard knew how to do it.
The current guard, trying to link many unfavorable factors into a general harmonious system of filth, which in the era of humanism is destroyed gently, that is, with the least number of victims, therefore, without seas of blood into which he does not want to dip his humane hands, does not know how to do this. The system, which is easily substituted for a single shot, does not line up, because "wherever you throw, there is a wedge everywhere", it is also a Trishkin caftan for breaking a template. Therefore, the notorious guard - "the guard is tired" - means only a desire to sleep. And in a dream, solutions come. Especially if the dream is in a den, carefully disguised from those unkind who walk by and cause damage - the guarded. Guard hopes to see in a dream a fulcrum and a lever device with which you can turn the world.

[Korsar4]

Simply put: the morning is wiser than the evening.

[depressant]

Yes, you see, Sergei, what's the matter ...
Our Stop Cutter is a revolutionary romantic. It seems to him that if you shout out loud "Revolution!", Then it will begin. The intensity of the population is enough. Without taking into account the fact that the explosion of a well-heated population is a riot suppressed with blood loss according to a long-established fire extinguishing scheme. With adverse consequences for the country as a whole and zero desired emissions, but with a lot of ash. In such cases, I advise you to watch "Divergent".

[Phil77]

What, then, does obedient silence lead to?
Or is there a hope that the current government, oh God !!!!!, will make sense?
No, no hope for that. No!

[depressant]

Seryozha, good evening! )))
When there is a tsunami in the form of a global trend, even an expert windsurfer is unlikely to be saved. Do you not see, do you not feel how from the human bottom, plunging it into poverty, giant waves of money rise, eventually reaching with the energy of transfer some given points that accumulate capital? Can you oppose something to this?

[Phil77]

Lyudmila Yakovlevna, when was it differently? You exaggerate the level of danger, or rather, we who were born in the USSR just think differently. Unfortunately, in today's world no one owes us anything. Absolutely. On the other hand, why should I owe anything to this state ?! In its current form and under the existing regime?

[depressant]

All citizens owe the state. They owe him exactly what keeps this state afloat. But they should not have anything superfluous - something that supports the increased buoyancy of those individuals that, carrying out the functions of the state, swim separately from it. And so that citizens should owe not so much to the state as to the aforementioned individuals, the latter, taking advantage of their official position, already, Seryozha - already! - have come up with a set of laws according to which you are either a beggar or a prisoner. Can you suggest a trick that can break the established order of things and not become a prisoner at the same time? Me not.

[Phil77]

Purely theoretically, but I remember those people who knew the recipe for changing the then existing order of things.
Yes, you know them too!

[depressant]

I know the old Names. Their experience tells me that they managed to break the system only when it began to break itself, trying to get out of the economic and political crisis. And they, the Names, broke. But these Names had at least that which could be offered to the population - ideology. Now there is no ideology, no new wave theorists. Do not offer the population a morally outdated ideology of more than a century ago. If a new ideology appears, and it should be global in the era of capital globalization, then we can talk about something. But the system does not break itself. In our Palestinians, all sorts of arrests, disclosures, the intensification of liberal protests are just an appearance, the system is just throwing off the shackles of outdated ideas about how the population is exploited, it is looking for a way to fit into the global trend, the essence of which is the concentration of money capital in a few hands.

[Korsar4]

Seryozha, an old saying
“Don’t believe, don’t be afraid, don’t ask” does not work everywhere, but in many places.

[Phil77]

Sergei! But where she acts, she acts. I do not want to ask * these * for anything, but let them not turn to me. I have already given all the debts to the country. If I had to.

[Korsar4]

Ever since childhood, I remember the saying: Do not gamble with the state.
We set our own rules where possible, but not everywhere it works.

[Phil77]

It was! Oh, it was! In * Sportloto *! Once I won 25 rubles. But that was a very, very long time ago, in that Soviet life. But there it was at least honest. I lost, the state won, in a good sense of the term.

[Korsar4]

People were drawn to roulette on the Yalta embankment, when lottery tickets were handed out. But this is quite in adolescence.
Gambling can be used for peaceful purposes.

[Catfish]

Seryozha, hi.
I was more fortunate, once the bosses, by order, gave all the employees DOSAAF lottery tickets and I won the Moscow-30 outboard motor, took it in money, now I don’t remember exactly - either 540 or 450 rubles. I bought myself a luxurious German swivel chair, my mother a sewing machine, and the rest of the others were buzzed well with colleagues at work. And the boss was shocked and lamented: "After all, I was holding this ticket in my hands ...", although I bought him a bottle of good brandy, but for the Jewish soul it was a weak consolation.

[Catfish]

Good evening, Sergey.
In general, I am an opponent of any gambling, and even more so with the state. There is no sense, it, the state, will calmly pass over you like a steam roller and will not even notice it. To communicate with a soulless machine only to your own detriment - will grind.

[Korsar4]

Good evening, Constantine!
I agree.
Although the chess past makes itself felt.

[Catfish]

For a ruble per batch, or were the rates higher? On Ekaterininsky Boulevard, right opposite the Intelligence School, lovers of this business gathered, but I did not participate there.

[Korsar4]

No. Even with my level of knowledge, charity is not worth doing. There were pros - just legends.

Blitz skills were pretty decent though.

[Catfish]

Here, in regard to "charity" I agree completely.
And there, higher up, Lyudmila and Sergei sat down on serious topics, but I don't even have a desire, I'm tired of all this, talk about love and friendship with a ray, somehow talking about politics does not attract me.
The truth was expressed on this matter by Thomas Jefferson:

"Experience shows that even under the best forms of government, those entrusted with power over time turned it into a tyranny."

[depressant]

In my opinion, Lyudmila and Sergei sagged on serious topics only because they were provoked to this by a hockey fan Seryozha))))

[Phil77]

Good morning! I'm provocateurs?!?!
God bless you, dear lady! Now I am in a wonderful mood after the beautiful victory of my CSKA! And you?!?!
Not expected....

[depressant]

The coach at CSKA is good)))
Something everyone is attacking me ... (((( ))))

[Phil77]

Attack .....

Because, I'm not to blame.
And Nikitin, yes, good. Gives the result.

[Korsar4]

Probably. I am reminded of an old woman from the times of Ancient Greece who prayed for a tyrant, because every next one was even worse.

[Catfish]

My mother in the seventies almost exactly repeated the words of this old woman: "Do not wish Brezhnev any harm, it will not be better, it will only get worse."
As if she looked into the water.

[Korsar4]

It is probably no coincidence that the issue of sustainability in forestry takes me 25 years.

[Catfish]

I don’t know, for me this is a very difficult question, but ...
"In the reserved and dense old Murom forests
All evil spirits roam in a cloud and sows fear in the passers-by "(c)

[Korsar4]

This one because,

“They sounded in the courtyard of the troubadours.
Grab the shooter, and they drag him to the palace ”(c).

[Catfish]

Dear person in all respects:

"I would like to roll out a tub of port ..." (c)

Our person!

[Korsar4]

I wonder what century the events belong to?

“He drove the ministers out of their seats,
He hung up the opposition "(c).

[depressant]

Sleeping in the shadow of a tyrant
Slander from the sofa,
Your finest hour will come -
Pale between military cuirasses
And answer with a wild growl
To the evil cheerfulness of a sharp peak.

This is for you for taking me with my face along the weak points of my reasoning
But I have repeatedly warned: I am mocking, I construct concepts, and then consider them from different angles for the possibility of implementation. Don't believe a single word I say! )))

[Korsar4]

"Mockers are good prophets" (c).

It can hurt if you get sick.

[depressant]

Really hit, aiming the word from your "couch"? However, I am a label! )))

[Korsar4]

No. Miss.

"Every person has a button" (c).

But not at this time. There will still be an opportunity.

[Catfish]

"Every person has a button" (c).

Only everyone sees it in their own way.

[Korsar4]

The cactus is different from other plants. He has areoles.

[Catfish]

Cacti instead of boobs ?! However ... Well, imagination !!!

[Korsar4]

There are wonderful cacti. For example, astrophytums. Just cosmic.

[Catfish]

Yes, beauty is simply unearthly.

[Korsar4]

We haven't started talking about Lofofora yet.

[Catfish]

What to say about her, you need to admire.

[Korsar4]

You can admire the echinocactus of the appropriate size.

[Catfish]

But I know this handsome man, we personally know him.

[Korsar4]

And when he is big he has a nickname - mother-in-law ottoman.

[Catfish]

Don't believe a single word I say! wassat)))

"O women, insidious creatures,
you easily cope with men.
And with you we become fools
who are you - a reward, or a punishment? "(c)

Well, you, Luda, we are all not here at that tender age when they unconditionally believe in the fair sex.

[depressant]

But at the same time, coming out of a tender age, on behalf of your peers, you subconsciously demand unconditional faith on the part of the female sex in all male representatives of your age category - is that so? )))
Without taking into account the fact that a famous politician, setting a bad example, over and over again destroys the idea of ​​justice that you mean)))

[Catfish]

Slander and Slander!
Specify specifically my post in which I demand at least something like that! This nema, netuti, does not exist in nature!
And "subconsciously" ... about the subconscious, let's keep quiet together, otherwise, no matter how embarrassment comes out.
And as for the politician you mentioned, they also found an example for me. Dirty work of a politician in this world can hardly be found. Not okay.

[depressant]

Hmm, on the one hand, he got away, he gnawed right to the bone ... )))
And on the other ...
There is an opinion that every person, having emerged from a tender age, considers his life position to be unshakable, which excludes flexibility, criticality to his statements, and in them, in statements, to the hoarseness of those defended, subconsciously, imperceptibly for a hoarse person, his true beliefs, although he will convince otherwise ))))

[Catfish]

Luda, have mercy, what kind of uel there , I have three family teeth left.
That’s what I never did, I didn’t defend it “to the point of hoarseness,” I didn’t see the point, if a person is sure to death in something - so the devil is with him, if only he didn’t crap from the sly. And as for being critical of your statements, then yes, there is such a sin, i.e. sometimes it is not there, this criticality. But which of us is without sin?
But after all, subconsciously, each of us tries to look better than he really is.

[depressant]

Holy truth, Kostya!
Our subconscious, whose existence is stubbornly denied by experts, nodding at ... the noosphere as a source of the unexpected in judgments, - it, the subconscious, works miracles with us, in my regard expressed by the notorious "And what did I say? I didn't want to!" In common parlance, this is called "blurt out". You can't rake it until the end of your life!
But for me most often it is expressed in the opposite way: "And why didn’t I say that? I could have objected. And it’s safe!" But no. For some reason he is silent. And again - do not clean up the consequences.

[Catfish]

As soon as you wrote "noosphere", I immediately remembered the immortal STALKER "Shadow of Chernobyl". Here it is, the subconscious is working. True, we are all shadows here, in this world.

[depressant]

Jerzy Tumanovsky is a great, intelligent author. It's good that you reminded me, I will need to reread, there are several books ...
And here is a fresh example of stupid blooper for you, the kind about which they say "And if you think well?!?" A certain Mr. Sholban Kara-ool, the head of Tuva, blurted out that it would be nice to return to Tuva the lands that entered the Krasnoyarsk Territory and the Irkutsk Region, and barely having time to close his mouth, he was immediately resigned )))))
I believe that the days of Mr. Baysarov as the owner of the license for the development of a luxurious deposit of rare coking coal in the same place, in Tuva, are numbered. When he took a license, he promised to build a railway through Tuva from the deposit to the BAM, as well as a terminal in the port of Vladivostok for the sale of that coal abroad. I paid about 2013 million rubles for a license in 600, but just the other day I opened my mouth and blurted out, they say, 183 million for the road? Mine? You're kidding! The state needs it, let it build! So it turns out that these gentlemen, either in a duet, or in each solo, worked for the collapse of the state, which is still breathing. The moment was not guessed! I believe that a case of corruption, which has covered Tuva with a carpet, will be quickly opened against the former governor, and perhaps Kadyrov will somehow protect Baysarov, Pugacheva's former son-in-law. This is such a circus, when the tail-subconscious twirls the body of the mind)))

[Catfish]

I haven't read Tumanovsky, just like I don't read any scribble on the plot of this game.
Somehow, after the Strugatskys, Tarkovsky and a truly talented game, there is no desire to waste time on pulp reading. Moreover, the author, as I understand it, is a foreigner and the concept of life in our country at that time is very relative.

[depressant]

The author of the book "Shadows of Chernobyl" Jerzy Tumanovsky - Russian. His books are not scribble.

[Catfish]

"Jerzy Tumanovsky is one of the co-authors of the largest work of the first literary competition based on the game" STALKER "- the tetralogy story" Fang ", which became not only the winner of the competition, but also the main work of the collection of stories around the world of the game" Shadows of Chernobyl "(c)

I climbed into the net, looked, it turns out a hundred years ago I read his "Fang", absolutely nothing has settled in my memory and the question arises whether it was worth wasting time. Yes, he signs himself with a pseudonym, and only God knows where he comes from. He wrote, of course, according to the plot of this game.

[depressant]

When my world is destroyed, I prefer not to argue, and then it remains whole)))

[Catfish]

What are you, I didn’t try to destroy anything, I just shared my opinion, if I hurt you somehow, then excuse me generously. You probably haven't played this game, but here almost all of our men have gone through it.
Anecdote from the game:
"Two Stalkers are sitting, one says to the other:
- Che is all nonsense about the Zone, they say that it is dangerous here, radiation !! Here I have been around the Zone for 5 years and NOTHING !!
- ... Although no, the scales of something have become more itchy lately .... "

[depressant]

Yes, I didn’t play Stalker. I read and read about stalkers and have already read about a hundred books. This is in addition to the "Roadside Picnic" by the Strugatskys. There is something in the books that cannot be in a walking shooter - an analysis of the morality of the characters' actions, as well as a sharp criticism of the vices of the modern social order. Russia is compressed to the Pripyat zone. Artifacts as symbols of minerals; security perimeter - border; there and then - corrupt army ranks; huckster-bartenders, they are also buyers of what stalkers got; the stalkers themselves, perishing in anomalies and torn apart by mutants, paramilitary groups of various kinds, a whole spectrum of bandits and renegades and constant collisions that require the manifestation of the true essence of man. In fact, the Zone is a way by which writers disassemble the world order for parts, it is a kind of morgue in which the world body is opened in order to identify its sores. The metaphorical form allows you not to be shy in conclusions.
Some works are written with talent.

[Catfish]

Good afternoon, Luda.
I hung out on my feet for more than a day until I was completely crazy, but I slept for almost half a day and finally got enough sleep. Otherwise, you wander around the house and garden all night like the shadow of Hamlet's father, you become furious with insomnia and you begin to hate the whole world along with its Creator. But now it seems like nothing, you can live, although the weather is pretty nasty.
And regarding "Stalker", I believe that the main one is still "Picnic" by the Strugatskys, and the rest of the books, as you put it, "apart from". But, again, this is just my opinion.
As for the game, the developers managed to create an indescribable atmosphere in it, such that it was not possible to create in any other game, no matter how "advanced" it was. But ... without knowing it, you won't feel it.
As you are now, our pressure is jumping.

PS How do you like the cacti of our Corsair?

[Phil77]

A huge risk of losing your world, Lyudmila Yakovlevna.
Good morning!
Non-resistance to evil?
Alas, it's time to go to work, but ... I'll be back!

[depressant]

Seryozha, my dear friend!
Hilo me today, as if not to ring out in the hospital again. I was afraid that I would not survive the current March 12, but I did. Covered on April 8th.

[Phil77]

Lyudmila Yakovlevna, how are you? Is it easier? Well, judging by the presence on the site, it turned out better. Do not be ill, take care of yourself! Health!

[Catfish]

Seryoga hello!

...I'll be back!

As it was written in chalk in the casemate of one of the forts of Königsberg in 44th year:
"We'll quit, but we'll be back."

Jokers, right?

[Phil77]

Hi buddy, why in '44? Did our guys take him in '45?
* Ochepyatka *?

[Catfish]

Yes, a description.

[depressant]

Oh, friends - like this)))
I went to look around for a minute, but for this I had to specifically look for such a position of the head so that it would not fall into a tailspin. You laugh, and I move like a mummy. Having taken the final position in space, I behave like a narrowly directed telescope.

[Catfish]

Luda, it's not all that bad, if you are with us.
And from the height of your telescopic position, admonish us, congenital idiots, with a wise word, so that the service does not seem like honey to all of us here.
Get well soon, everything will go away as if there was nothing.

[Phil77]

I join. Nothing more than temporary difficulties.
Everything will be fine, I'm sure of it!

[Korsar4]

In fact, I'm not ready to talk about a colleague without a fairly long exchange of at least remarks.

As far as the history of our country is concerned, the Troubles of the twentieth century led to the Brest Peace and the Bialowieza Agreement.

[depressant]

As for Stoporez, he is an extremely decent and intelligent person, and in political discussions I always note his comments, even if I do not take part in the topic. I either read or view almost everything on VO. And I always positively evaluate our trampled Olgovich )))

[Korsar4]

This is already a recommendation. I readily believe.

[Catfish]

Luda, did Eisenshtein influence you like that? But that was not the case. Fake-s.

And there was this.

[depressant]

Kostya, I do not quite understand what way of thinking you attribute to me, but in both photographs people do exactly what corresponds to pumping their brains. In the first case - one, in the second - just the opposite. Do you know what unites them? Belonging to not very large groups of active people who ardently want to take away and divide. The only difference is that in the first case - to take away from the few and divide into all, and in the second - to take away from everyone and divide into the few.

[Catfish]

Lyuda, God forbid, I do not ascribe anything to you. It just seemed to me that you and Seryoga were somehow very emotional, so I decided to insert a frame from the film with a scene that did not exist in reality.
As for the second photo, I do not quite agree with you in the definition of what "- to take away from everyone and divide into a few". Those who led the protest actions, most likely, were striving for this, but the rest were divided into two simple groups:
one/. These were so sick of the Soviet swamp that they didn't care what to change it for.
2 /. This all didn't give a damn, they had fun out of boredom, and, by the way, there were quite a few of them.
I knew people of both categories.
I belonged to the latter, but I did not climb into all these dumps, for I remembered well that "when the gentlemen fight the slaves, their forelocks crack."
Yes, by the way - "take away from everyone", even before the coup I had nothing but my own pants.

[depressant]

And I had a beautiful two-story house, built by the hands of my father and mine, teenagers, too, and in the house there was a wonderful library, good furniture, around the house there was a subtropical garden with all kinds of southern fruits, laurels and even huge agaves. And now I have a shabby kopeck piece in a Khrushchev building, earned by incredibly hard work, and a complete lack of confidence, not just in the future, in tomorrow. This is all that was enough for me in the "era of opportunities". And let's not talk about the sad.

[Catfish]

What can you say ... I sincerely regret what happened. We will not talk about the sad, although I also have problems, but "while I live - I hope."

[Korsar4]

“But then she is proud, lolly,
Willful and jealous ”(c).

[No name B]

At the main bashty on the watchmen
There were Eurial and Niz;
Although young bully, she is good
І krіpki, brave, yak khartsiz.
At least not a Trojan horse flowed in them,
Yakas stranger-busurmanska,
That is in the service of the virgin cossacks.
For the battle їх spіtkav prasunok;
We went to Enei on the verbunka;
Bully is an offense to fellow countrymen.

“And scho, yak, sneaking up little by little,
Climb into the Rutul camp? -
Whispering Bottom in Eurial's ear. -
We cooked porridge there;
Now it stinks to sleep with a drink,
Do not touch one foot,
At least all my throats are overrun.
I think to start there,
Deserve before Her
To plant the first hundred on the bottom ”.

“Yak? Himself? Leave me? -
Eating up Niza Evrial. -
Ні! Perchet ty me less a boa constrictor,
I’m a fellow countryman.
I will not give you a sight,
I am glad with you into fire and into water.
I'm going with you for a hundred deaths.
My Batko Buv Serdyuk Opr_chny,
Movlyav (no peace of mind);
Die on the field as a hero ”.

[Korsar4]

Everything was good with Kotlyarevsky with a sense of humor. Once more than two centuries are remembered.

[Undecim]

There was a conspiracy to free him, but ... ended in failure.
Not even one, but three - 1569, 1574 and 1576. After the third, King Johan III ordered the guards of the Örbyhus castle to poison Eric XIV in an attempt to free him. And pea soup was Eric's favorite. According to legend, the king was poisoned on Thursday. Maybe that's why the Swedes still serve ärtsoppa och pannkakor, a pea soup with pancakes, on Thursdays.

[Undecim]

In general, in the Armory of Dresden, an astonishingly many beautifully made armor is exhibited, and the "riders" dressed in them sit on equally beautiful, well, just like living horses

[yehat2]

eh what SUVs used to be ...

[3x3zsave]

And do not say!
And Odin generally had an armored personnel carrier, with a drive for eight hooves!

[Senior seaman]

Frolicking suspicion led to unjustified killings and executions

Hmm ... probably you can say that :)))

[3x3zsave]

I agree, the "sadness" was a success!

[Trilobite Master]

Yesterday I was busy all day - they threw my nephew "for education" - there was no time to sit in detail, to relax in good company.
Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the articles - yesterday's and today's, both are interesting, both in content and in comments.
I look forward to an article on armor that really was "in action." In the absence of the opportunity to personally venerate such a work of art with a hammer or an ax, I really want to know about the results achieved by the lucky ones who were more fortunate than me.

[kalibr]

Quote: Trilobite Master

I look forward to an article on armor that really was "in action."

And there are very few of them left. But I found it especially for you ... Coming soon.

[Trilobite Master]

In my opinion, this is the most interesting thing. You can even not royal or ducal armor, something simpler, but look at how weapons (primarily cold ones) affect it in real combat conditions and how it saves (or does not save) the life of its owner.

[kalibr]

Quote: Trilobite Master

something simpler, but see how the weapon affects it

Easier went to melting!

[Trilobite Master]

And those who wore "prettier" did not get into the fight especially. This is the pity.
Modern reenactors, of course, beat each other heartily at their festivals, but there are also a lot of restrictions - weapons are blunted, their mass is limited, piercing blows are prohibited ... Although it is dear to look at their armor after a fight.
But it is, whatever one may say, rather a sport.

[kalibr]

I was in Penza at one such competition. Did not like! "Historical" strikes are not allowed, you cannot push with a shield, you cannot beat from under the shield. Nafig such a reconstruction ...

[Trilobite Master]

Yes, there are a lot of restrictions. But at least this way, otherwise they would be forbidden to get together and mutuzit each other.
In terms of operational art, tactics, coordination of actions, physical and psychological training, etc. a certain idea of ​​the process of sorting out relations in the Middle Ages can be given by the skirmishes of football fans of the "classic" or "urban" period of the late 90s - early XNUMXs. Everything there was for real, this was not a sport, they beat me seriously, right on city streets and wastelands, many participants were then prescribed for a long time in nearby hospitals. At the same time, it happened that the number of "fighting" was quite comparable to the number of feudal squads of the early Middle Ages, and the methods of clarifying relations - throwing heavy objects with the transition to hand-to-hand combat - were quite consistent with the methods of warfare at that time. But of the armor they had only mouthguards, and even then not all of them. But personal hatred, aggression and strength were enough.
Again, not that ...

[3x3zsave]

Eh, Michael!
Well, okay, you controled the contents of the armor with a pick, shook it out of the "work of art", but the product lost its presentation. And where is it then? Only to the tinsmith, and his work costs money, and a lot ... In connection with this situation, civilized people came up with a misericordia.

[Korsar4]

So the blow of mercy after not resisting. What if a stubborn opponent gets caught?

[3x3zsave]

Will not get caught. In this era, there were other concepts. They tried not to take prisoners on the battlefield.

[Cat]

They tried not to take prisoners on the battlefield

In that era, they just tried to take. The captured knight is not only valuable armor, but also two, maybe three bags of ransom money from grateful relatives

[Trilobite Master]

"Hit in the eye, do not spoil the skin"

Quote: 3x3zsave

the product has lost its presentation

I will answer with the words of Kostya Saprykin:

Look, I didn't buy it, and I'm not going to wear it myself.

First of all, I'm interested in how strong and reliable this skin itself is, its contents in this case are purple to me. Let him die from combat diarrhea. , but only after he leaves the battle and provides his armor for traceological research.

[3x3zsave]

"Oh-vey, Misha, forget these words! So what did you bring me again? On that clift there are four holes from the chasing and a lot of dents from the hooves of your sotsky horses."

[Trilobite Master]

Eh, that would be to collect a set of armor, in which Dmitry Donskoy was found on the Kulikovo field after the battle ... Yes, to carry out his (Dmitry) medical examination in order to establish the severity of his injuries. Comparing the damage on the armor and on the prince himself would be good for science.
Well, at worst, the set of armor of Richard III, removed from him after the Battle of Bosworth ... It's interesting that the armor is a hundred years younger, that is, more perfect, and the fact that their owner was nevertheless taken out right on the battlefield - there should be a trail of a fatal blow.
It's not for the sake of self-interest ...

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

but only after leaving the battle and providing his armor for traceological research

Mikhail, here is a comrade who has provided his helmet for traceological research: apparently - your favorite pick. What happened to the owner? - seems to have died not from "combat diarrhea". Scythians VI century BC Kuban:

[Trilobite Master]

That's what I understand - business. But, probably, all the same here is not a slam, but a minting. Something like a narrow-bladed battle ax. A gorgeous copy. And in what context was it found?

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

in what context is it found?

Unfortunately, there was no information - in the plate: "Kuban region (?), Russian Empire, place of discovery unknown", stored in the State Historical Museum, recently exhibited in the Hermitage at an exhibition of early iron (we visited it with Anton), apparently dated by analogy: such helmets are characteristic of the Scythians of this time (VII-VI centuries BC).

[Trilobite Master]

Sorry ...
My knowledge of traceology is very limited, but, so I do not pretend to be an expert, but that dent, which is directed directly to the photographer, was left, in my opinion, by an edge, and not by a point. The penetration must be looked at separately, I don’t presume to judge here at all, especially since the edges of the hole must have also been gnawed by corrosion.
Somewhere I read that just among the Scythians and Sarmatians, it was small, under 100 grams, that were widespread. combat narrow-bladed hatchets on a relatively long, about half a meter hatchet. Just like that, I think, it was possible to bring such beauty.
The helmet, as I understand it, is one-piece forged?

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

The helmet, as I understand it, is one-piece forged?

Bronze helmet.

Somewhere I read that just among the Scythians and Sarmatians, it was small, under 100 grams, that were widespread. combat narrow-bladed hatchets on a relatively long, about half a meter hatchet. Just like that, I think, it was possible to bring such beauty.

Do not subtract, do not add. Here is a similar helmet with a hatchet in the background:

And here is the hatchet itself:

6th century BC Iron.

[Trilobite Master]

Just about, exactly, that's exactly what I imagined.
Our museum workers still have to learn and learn. How do you like this composition in one showcase:
1. Broken helmet.
2. Mint.
3. Reconstruction of the helmet.
4. Reconstruction of the coinage.
5. A picture in which one Scythian strikes another.
Interesting. Clearly. Historically. Whole.

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

Our museum workers still have to learn and learn. How do you like this composition in one showcase:
1. Broken helmet.
2. Mint.
3. Reconstruction of the helmet.
4. Reconstruction of the coinage.
5. A picture in which one Scythian strikes another.

"The nail with which the partisan Bosniuk wounded the German fascist invader and the bullet that was taken from the head of the partisan Bosniuk."
Seriously though, the tablets were extremely short and not informative, everything in this vein: "Hatchet VI century BC Iron." or "Helmet of the VII-VI centuries. Bronze", etc. The exhibition was of course temporary, but I would like more information. But at the same time, the exhibition is very specialized, the majority of visitors went to it deliberately, I think there were few random people.
Yes, I agree, most of our museums still work in the old-fashioned way: as a rule, there is not enough clarity and popularity of the presentation of the material.
And it's even hard to imagine how much they still have in their storerooms, how much we could still see.

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: Mihaylov

The nail with which the partisan Bosniuk wounded the German fascist occupier

And the picture is required. The partisan rushes at the German, and a horde of brutal Nazis is already aiming at him from behind.
No, in fact, many people lack imagination to mentally turn rusty pieces of iron into swords, and shards into amphoras. A full life-size reconstruction is needed - then it will be interesting. Moreover, the reconstruction is historical, scientific.
The Knights' Hall in the Hermitage gives the impression that the armor on the knights is full. Everything is life-size. You can see how it is and what.
Do not forget that in

the era of universal illiteracy, the most important of the arts for us is cinema

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

A full life-size reconstruction is needed - then it will be interesting. Moreover, the reconstruction is historical, scientific.

In the artillery museum in the Western European section, replicas of a cuirass, a helmet and a sword were put, you can wear all this and take a picture, visitors like at least something.

[kalibr]

For M. Gorelik, some museum ordered a replica of the Sarmatian sword. He did it, brought it, but they tell him - it’s wrong, we have what a thick blade, and what about you? He told them: oxides increase the thickness of the metal, calcites ... No ... you need to thicker! So it will not be raised. "And you know what people were then ..." Well, he told them everything he thought, and the sword eventually remained with him!

[mihaylov]

Quote: kalibr

For M. Gorelik, some museum ordered a replica of the Sarmatian sword.

I wonder what kind of sword? which is a long Sarmatian language, they are sometimes conventionally called "two-handed"? or normal?

[kalibr]

I would not call it two-handed. One palm, and not very long. I told him that the sword found in Varna is longer. But ... "they say so good, there were such too" Most of all I was impressed by the disc-shaped pommel and the lining of the handle made of mammoth bone ...

[mihaylov]

Quote: kalibr

The disc top impressed me the most.

With such a pommel?

[kalibr]

No. His it was a copy of what was found on the sword from Varna, in the form of a flying saucer. Later I saw exactly the same thing in our Penza Museum of Local Lore. A very spectacular thing. I don’t remember exactly, but it was about 80 mm in diameter and about 20 mm thick. Made of gray translucent chalcedony.

[Engineer]

The Scythians had both. In addition, the butts of sagaris hatchets depicted on vases often have thorns
On the eastern outskirts of the Scythian world, the Yuezhi-Pazyryks mainly used the klevets
Burial grounds Ulandryk and Tashanta
The leader from the second Pazyryk mound. On the hole on the left you can see traces of a faceted thorn of a rivet

Horses in the mounds were also killed with a pick

[mihaylov]

Quote: Engineer

The Scythians had both. In addition, the butts of sagaris hatchets depicted on vases often have thorns

Yes, they had a hefty variety:

[mihaylov]

That's interesting: the upper left hatchet in Melnikova's book is listed as from Ufa. Almost the same was presented at the exhibition, but the geography indicated is very excellent:

[kalibr]

And several of them were found ...

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: Engineer

The Scythians had both

Nobody argues. I just wrote that the mark on the helmet, most likely, was left by the blade, and not by the point characteristic of the pick.
One friend of mine, having watched a video on the Internet, unscrewed a railway crutch into something similar to a Scythian coinage. The penetrating power of the blow is really impressive, especially given the lightness of the weapon and the speed with which it can be manipulated. In the household, such an item is absolutely useless, except to chop ice, but against a well-armed enemy, I think, it is very effective.

[Engineer]

It seemed to me that the helmet was pierced with a hammer - the hole is close to the round
The funny thing is that already in the 15th century, not only chisels and picks, but even their two-handed counterparts, polexes, were not very effective against armor. I have already given examples from the life of Jacques de Lalen.
In the 16th century, the armor became even more perfect, but the polex did not become more perfect - there is nowhere to go

[Trilobite Master]

Truly, everyone has their own view. I am not a tracer, but it seems to me that the dent next to the crack was left by the chasing - the clear edges of the blade are visible. The piercing itself is poorly visible, but it seems to me that its shape is more diamond-shaped than round, and near the upper sharp edge of the hole, the trace of the blade is also visible. Although it is difficult to judge here.
From the pick, that is, from its sting, there should remain a small hole comparable in length and width and corresponding in shape to the section of the sting, as on the skull you have cited. The helmet, of course, corroded, but still the hole in it does not look like a hole in the skull.
I agree about the Polexes. But this is a completely different era, a different quality of the metal and the level of its processing. In fact, at some point, edged weapons against armor became useless, this is noted by many, both contemporaries and later researchers. Only to poke something narrow into the joints or under the visor - a person's muscular strength is no longer enough to pierce the steel plates. While the warrior was on his feet and able to defend himself, he was virtually invulnerable.

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

I am not a tracer, but it seems to me that the dent next to the crack was left by the chasing - the clear edges of the blade are visible.

Maybe it will be seen better this way:

[Trilobite Master]

Better, of course, but still, for example, I don't understand.

Here is what I have labeled "1" - a deformation, similar to a trace from an edge.
The fact that "2" is generally not clear how it could have formed. The quadrangular blade tip? Unclear.
Besides, we also don't know how bronze interacts with steel. There is also a part of the metal missing, it seems, that is, if you straighten the bent one, it will not be possible to completely close the hole - generally a dark forest. Here you need to connect a normal tracer - he will immediately tell how what happened - the shape of the traumatic object, the direction and number of impacts, etc.
But the hole is still too big for a hammer, in my opinion.

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

Better, of course, but still, for example, I don't understand.

Let's consider this "historical detective" as yet unsolved.
But note that there is still a trace from the second blow that did not pierce the helmet and if it is the same weapon (which is likely), but really looks more like a hatchet:

[Engineer]

Now I have practically no doubts. Again a four-sided track, but too large for the thorn of the pick
These are hammer axes. Described by Melyukova on page 66. She writes that all known samples date from the 6th century BC. Matching the dates with the helmet is perfect.

[mihaylov]

Quote: Engineer

These are hammer axes. Described by Melyukova on page 66. She writes that all known samples date from the 6th century BC. Matching the dates with the helmet is perfect.

Well, you have a memory!

[Engineer]

Memory is so so
Just a book by Melyukova
1. Essentially a quick reference guide - it won't take long to search
2. I have on Google Drive

[Trilobite Master]

Yes, the "wood grouse" is the most complete. Although I would unequivocally refuse to initiate a case "for the death of a person subject to prosecution." Moreover - "no body, no business." Let's just say - the helmet was tested for strength and thrown out as an unsuccessful test. Refuse.

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

Let's just say - the helmet was tested for strength and thrown out as an unsuccessful test. Refuse.

As it was there: "he dug up the grave of a Neanderthal without the consent of the next of kin"
Here's interesting: 2 blows to the head and apparently with the same weapon: in a battle it is probably difficult to "catch" 2 blows in a row, I can assume that they were knocked down from a horse and already finished off, or the first blow stunned, and the second has already pierced the helmet and apparently with a lethal one the outcome. We must excite!

[Trilobite Master]

Do not.
Item 4 h. 1 tbsp. 24 of the Code of Criminal Procedure of the Russian Federation:

A criminal case cannot be initiated, and an initiated criminal case is subject to termination on the following grounds:
4) death of the suspect or accused, except in cases where criminal proceedings are necessary for the rehabilitation of the deceased;

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

death of a suspect or accused

Considering that the suspect / accused hardly made it to at least the XNUMXth century BC, it is really unnecessary.
It's a pity, the investigation has developed so well.

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: Mihaylov

the investigation has developed so well.

Yes wood grouse, a typical wood grouse. No body, no witnesses, no weapons ...
So let's not spoil the statistics for ourselves.
There are more interesting things to do. For example, I still don't know who killed Laura Palmer. I suspect Uncle Benes, but not sure.

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

The penetrating power of the blow is really impressive, especially given the lightness of the weapon and the speed with which it can be manipulated.

They also had similar clubs: very small in size, they say they are often mistaken for large buttons or fishing weights even at the excavation site. But when mounted on a long flexible stick, the effect is quite impressive. If the helmet is not pierced like a stamp or a pick, then they can turn it off, but still not everyone had helmets.

[Trilobite Master]

Yes, that's about these little maces exactly in the video and Zhukov was. I have come across some kind of such a weapon in criminal practice in the form of a short cut of a cable with a small piece of lead poured into one end. One drug addict walked around the area with such, he killed pensioners, cattle. The slaughter is terrible. I broke my heads at once - like a bullet pierced.

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

I have come across some kind of such a weapon in criminal practice in the form of a short cut of a cable with a small piece of lead poured into one end. One drug addict walked around the area with such, he killed pensioners, cattle. negative Terrible slaughter. I broke my heads at once - like a bullet pierced.

It turns out he achieved approximately the same effect as the nomads with their maces, but as I understand it, it was even more effective from a horse.
Somewhere in my head a phrase is spinning, something like: "The Mongols killed the prisoners with the help of long sticks with iron balls planted on them" or something like that. I can't remember where it came from. It was apparently about such maces and went.

[Trilobite Master]

In Yaroslavl, they found the skeleton of a Slavic warrior with several chopped wounds to the head, but fatal - precisely from a mace or club - the skull was broken in the temple area.
Last year or the year before last, I argued with someone here about the ratio of bladed and shock-crushing weapons in medieval armies. In my opinion, the significance of blade weapons in the minds of modern man for the times up to, probably, the XNUMXth century is greatly exaggerated. Clubs and clubs are no less effective in battle, but much cheaper and do not require special training to master them. An analysis of the damage to the skeletons found in Visby seems to confirm this, although under Visby a highly professional army fought on the side of the Danes, not the militia.
The cult of the sword and all this romance obscures people's eyes. Cudgel and ax - this is our (and not only our) medieval "everything".

[kalibr]

Quote: Trilobite Master

The cult of the sword and all this romance obscures people's eyes.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

In my opinion, the significance of blade weapons in the minds of modern man for the times up to, probably, the XNUMXth century is greatly exaggerated.

I think yes, here you probably still need to take into account that modern man perceives the cult of bladed weapons mainly through the prism of the last 2-3 centuries, when the armies as a whole have already abandoned the main defensive weapons and the effectiveness of bladed weapons has correspondingly increased significantly: recall the quintessence of the saber - shamshir, which has been spreading since the 17th century, but I think it is completely useless against an armored warrior.
Recently I came across an interesting episode from Froissard's chronicles about the centenary war: it was about the battle between the Germans and the French. A brave German knight (it seems by the name of Skonneworth, but I could be wrong) saw Ser Montmorency, whom he knew personally, fighting under his banner and decided to take a brave step: he galloped to his right and grabbed his horse by the reins and dragged him into his camp. Ser Montmorency did not look indifferently at this action, but began energetically thrash the brave knight with a sword and struck many blows on the helmet and back, but could not cause any harm[i] [/ i], for there was Skonneworth in good armor. The maneuver was a success, he brought Ser Montmorency to his camp, where he admitted himself defeated.

[Trilobite Master]

A funny episode.
It is quite possible that the weighty brush of Ser Montmorency would have been more useful in this case.
Although the sire himself could be smart and, for example, attack his opponent's horse ...

Quote: Mihaylov

modern man perceives the cult of bladed weapons mainly through the prism of the last 2-3 centuries

Well, if so.
I'm afraid, however, that through the prism of Hollywood, mostly.

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

It is possible that a weighty brush to Ser Montmorency in this case would have been more useful.

Or a klevets and then instead of the helmet of this unfortunate Scythian today we would discuss a photo of the broken helmet of a brave knight

[Konnick]

The cult of the sword and all this romance obscures people's eyes. Club and ax - this is our (and not only our) medieval "everything"

At the excavations of the Zolotarevsky settlement, where the battlefield of 1237 with the Mongol-Tatars remained untouched, a mace was found, some believe that it is a steel casting, although they learned to cast steel only in the 19th century.

Many different weapons were found there, but no swords were found, only sabers.
Link - https://swordmaster.org/2010/09/17/oruzhie-i-dospehi-iz-zolotarevskogo-gorodischa.html

[Trilobite Master]

Thanks for the link. The mace there, however, is not the one in your photo, and, of course, there is no question of any casting, but the message is interesting. There is also a link to the book, from which the data was taken, I will look later.

[Konnick]

That mace, only from the museum, with the reconstruction of the shaft. There are tens of times more artifacts found at the Zolotarevskoye settlement than on the field of the Kulikovo battle.

[Engineer]

Maces and flails are often simply difficult to distinguish even for experienced archaeologists
One of the articles was called "Weight weights or flails?"
Another reason for the bias towards blades in public opinion

[mihaylov]

Quote: Engineer

Maces and flails are often difficult to identify even for experienced archaeologists. One of the articles was called "Weight weights or flails?"

They sell a lot of such weights on all sorts of black-digging sites, go really distinguish them from bristles or clubs.

[Trilobite Master]

Just a sword is a status weapon.
After all, no one sees himself as a medieval peasant or an urban militia. The smallest - a vigilante, and even more a prince (king, duke) or boyar (count). Everyone imagines themselves in a shining high helmet, in a mirror-armor and with a sword in hand and on a hot raven, steep-maned horse. No one wants to fight in a sweatshirt under rusty chain mail, crumpled with a dull gleam of three iron stripes on his head and with an ax or a club in his hand, but on a mouse nag.

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Trilobite Master

Clubs and clubs are no less effective in battle, but much cheaper and do not require special training to master them. An analysis of the damage to the skeletons found in Visby seems to confirm this, although under Visby a highly professional army fought on the side of the Danes, not the militia.
The cult of the sword and all this romance obscures people's eyes. Cudgel and ax - this is our (and not only our) medieval "everything".

Bobrov talks about this in his lecture. How the Kazakhs, in the confrontation with the Dzungars, not having a large, industrial quantity of good iron, fought back with axes.
[media = https: //youtu.be/LmiOQB_V9zk]

[Korsar4]

A day of communication with your nephew - and already your hand is torn to the ax?

[3x3zsave]

No, Mikhail has this innate. Do not feed bread - let me wave it. The person does not have a commercial (Jewish) vein. The "Operator" was right, as it is - a Tatar!

[Korsar4]

The sun shines on everyone.

[Trilobite Master]

A normal nephew. Quickly came back to normal, I will not spoil you. We went to the forest, fried sausages, the weather, however, was not very snow, then rain, then the sun, and so normally we sat around the fire.

[kalibr]

Just about: all you have to rest, and the sausages to fry. And for two hours at the dacha I threw snow with my son-in-law into tanks and containers, and also into greenhouses, for water retention, and then again - to write about armor ... I sit here in the Tower of the Tower and look out for more from them ...

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: kalibr

I sit here in the Tower of the Tower and look out for more from them to take

Bring everything - it will fit in the household.
No, after all, the nth generation of peasant ancestors is constantly reflected in me.

[kalibr]

Quote: Trilobite Master

No, after all, the nth generation of peasant ancestors is constantly reflected in me.

And for 5 years I have been unloading the dacha from ... the owner is a peasant. Only this year I graduated. Empty paint cans, cans, rotten (why?) Boards, aluminum wire (brittle), some rags ... The chair is old, also rotten. Incredible severity. It didn't work out, I had to bury it! Why didn't you immediately throw it out on the road in a landfill? This is how much you had to save up so much shit. And that's how he lived in the middle of this srach! So fight this legacy!

[Trilobite Master]

I try to the best of my ability! But nature does not let go so easily - I will hide the scrap board somewhere, then the old cartridge from the light bulb - suddenly it will come in handy, then a piece of leather ...
Sometimes you freak out, throw everything away, but then you start collecting the rubbish again mechanically ... A foam pillow from an old chair will come in handy somewhere, old rubber boots - for patches ...
In short, this is how we live.

[mihaylov]

Quote: kalibr

And for 5 years I have been unloading the dacha from ... the owner is a peasant. Only this year I graduated. Empty paint cans, cans, rotten (why?) Boards, aluminum wire (brittle), some rags ... The chair is old, also rotten. Incredible severity. It didn't work out, I had to bury it! Why didn't you immediately throw it out on the road in a landfill? This is how much you had to save up so much shit. And that's how he lived in the middle of this srach! So fight this legacy!

When I helped my father-in-law to disassemble the old barn at the dacha: do you know what I found in the depths of the barn, in addition to everything similar to the above?
Computer 1985 release (Bulgarian). The size of about 2 washing machines and weighing 100-150 kg. I say why? Well, he says there are electric motors, I wanted to make a saw out of them. So now there is a saw and not one, can we throw it out? Or maybe we will leave it, it will suddenly come in handy.

[Korsar4]

The son, a tenth grader, was on a shift at the Avangard ANO. Satisfied. I learned to: Answer exactly that way. Enjoyed.

[Vik66]

I was wondering how much such armor weighs? Separately per person and per horse? Will the horse take all this away with the rider, or will its legs part?

[kalibr]

There is also data on weight ... but not here, then in other articles it was, they all weigh about the same. Usually so - 22-26 - 32-36 rider's armor - 36 - 52 - horse's armor. The heaviest are 80-88 kg. TOGETHER!

[Vik66]

Thanks I'll know.
Not feeble but weight ...

[Crimea26]

I wonder how the horses felt about such "eyecups"? Although .... who was interested in this? ...

[kalibr]

Quote: Crimea26

I wonder how the horses felt about such "eyecups"? Although .... who was interested in this? ...

What's this. How they felt about spurs with an asterisk ... that's it - yes!

[Dkuznecov]

The author would like to visit the Turin Museum.
There really can be
just go crazy with all this splendor.
Moreover, there is nothing to fly.
And the shroud is nearby, how not to visit.