Air combat: the new French missile is seriously inferior to the Russian R-37M

The French Air Force has finally received a new long-range air-to-air missile. Military Watch reports that a division of Rafale fighters armed with new Meteor missiles made its maiden flight.

Aviation long-range missile "Meteor" is being developed by MBDA since 2003 for the Air Forces of France, Great Britain, Sweden, Germany, Spain and Italy. In the French Air Force, it should replace the MICA missile, used since the mid-90s of the last century and capable of hitting targets at a range of approximately 80 km. The Meteor missile has been integrated since 2015 and is directly related to the installation of RBE2 AFAR radars on fighters.

The declared estimated range of the Meteor missile, as the newspaper writes, is 180-250 km. Most likely we are talking about an upgraded version, which was tested in 2019. The basic version of the "Meteor" had a hitting range of no more than 110 km, although according to calculations it should have been at least 150 km.

The French Air Force command notes that the integration of the new Meteor missile will make it possible to use all the capabilities of fighters in air combat, hitting targets at long range, which the French military aviation was previously deprived of. However, as emphasized, even the modernized version of the Meteor is significantly inferior to the Russian R-37 and R-37M aircraft missiles, which are capable of hitting targets at ranges of up to 400 km. In the event of an air collision, Russian fighters will gain a significant advantage over French aircraft in terms of range.

The mass of the Meteor rocket is 190 kg, the mass of the warhead is 25 kg, the length is 3,7 m, the diameter is 178 mm, the speed is 4,1 M.

Comments

[tanki tanks]

Our native rockets have always been and will be better!

[figwam]

The effectiveness of long-range air combat by fighters against fighters is not known, but in general we are ahead in the range of use, and there is also the development of the KS-172 with an even greater range.

[Drugov]

It was smooth on paper and forgot about the ravines.

[Krasnoyarsk]

= Air combat: the new French missile is seriously inferior to the Russian R-37M =
I don’t think the French reported the true capabilities of the rocket. As well as ours reported about the capabilities of their own.

[Prisoner]

If they want to sell their products to the natives, they can exaggerate. "You won't cheat, you won't sell." The Pins understood this long ago.

[Aerodrome]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

I don’t think the French reported the true capabilities of the rocket. As well as ours reported about the capabilities of their own.

here is such a trick, Westerners usually lie to the big side, and ours to a lesser one. (example with "caliber")

[Nikolaevich I]

I will not prove anything ... Just compare the performance characteristics ...
The mass of the Meteor rocket is 190 kg, the mass of the warhead is 25 kg, the length is 3,7 m, the diameter is 178 mm, the speed is 4,1 M.
RVV R-37M

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

I will not prove anything ..

And you don't need to. You have not read my comment carefully.
No country will reveal the true characteristics of its weapons.
And rightly so!

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

You did not read my comment carefully

It's not about being attentive! As URAL72 stated: these are different missiles. And in terms of engine, fuel, weight, maneuverability, etc. Why compare them?... They are united only by the fact that they belong to "long-range" missiles!

[Orange bigg]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

You did not read my comment carefully

It's not about being attentive! As URAL72 stated: these are different missiles. And in terms of engine, fuel, weight, maneuverability, etc. Why compare them?... They are united only by the fact that they belong to "long-range" missiles!

In principle, correct. Meteor is a medium-range air-to-air missile and it must be compared with our K-77M medium-range air-to-air missile (Product 180). The R-37M is a long-range air-to-air missile. (400 km)

That is why the Egyptians are probing the option of integrating the already purchased fighters with the latest Russian air-to-air missile K-77M, the range of which, according to American sources, is 193 km, according to ours - 200 km. Its peculiarity lies in the high probability of hitting any type of fighter, including the Israeli F-35.

But, as defense-aerospace.com writes, even the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation looks with apprehension in the direction of the K-77M because of its extreme high cost, but the Egyptians make it clear that they are ready to purchase a large batch of MiG-29M if export fighters are equipped with this ammunition.

https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/224687/

[Dread]

Nikolaevich I - the overload capacity of the RVV-BD R-37M is 22 g, which indicates inaccurate data regarding 8 g.
"R-37M is designed to destroy air targets (fighters, attack aircraft, bombers, military transport aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles), at any time of the day, at all angles, in the conditions electronic countermeasuresOn background of the earth and water surface, including with multichannel shelling on the principle of "let it go and forget it».

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Dread

Nikolaevich I - the overload capacity of the RVV-BD R-37M is 22 g, which indicates inaccurate data regarding 8 g.

Did you not notice that 8 g refers to the targets it can hit ... The R-37M is capable of effectively (!) Hitting targets maneuvering with an overload of 8 g ... For this, the R-37M must have an "overload" ability, at least (! ), twice as much!

[Dread]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Did you not notice that 8 g refers to the targets that can be hit ... The R-37M is capable of effectively (!) Hitting targets maneuvering with an overload of 8 g ... For this, the R-37M must have "overload "capacity, at least (!), twice as much!

Nikolaevich I - you didn't understand the meaning!
If in terms of parameters, RVV-BD R-37M has an overload capacity
22g, then divide by 2 according to your expression, then you get 11g, not 8g,
Therefore, I wrote:

Nikolaevich I - the overload capacity of the RVV-BD R-37M is 22 g, which says about inaccurate data regarding 8 g.

Contradict yourself! No wonder Kanashenko warned NATO - the range of our missiles to you
will surprise.

[Dread]

Quote: Dread

No wonder Kanashenko warned NATO - the range of our missiles you
will surprise.

Sorry - I didn't finish it, and of course for maneuverability ...

[Dread]

Quote: Dread

Nikolaevich I - the overload capacity of the RVV-BD R-37M is 22 g, which indicates inaccurate data regarding 8 g.

Nikolaevich - about 8 g targets hit by the R-37M - is an old internet bike that is still quoted, sometimes by reputable publications. I here on VO previously indicated the progenitor of this story, which he wrote for another edition (VPK, if memory serves) and indicated the value of 7-9 g. This is our author of the article - Evgeny Damantsev ... Truth is truth!

[Nikolaevich I]

I "listened" to you! I agree that we need to check again ... But about E. Damantsev ... I know that he often takes information from Karpenko's website ... but Karpenko's website gives the same data ... 8g .. ..

[nks]

In general, I already wrote that this data is provided by the manufacturer himself on his office site (and, by the way, at the stands too)
http://vympelmkb.com/production/production/upravlyaemye-rakety/aviatsionnaya-upravlyaemaya-raketa-rvv-bd/, а вот 22g -- это как раз такая байка, которую пытается распространять тут главный патриот с американским ником (он еще обвиняет во лжи МКБ Вымпел, но русофоб тут почему-то кто-то другой). Возможно и на пару с Даманцевым :) Потом под другим ником будет сам на себя ссылаться :)

[Alexander Akchurin]

Everything is written correctly there. The maximum overload of the target is 8 units, but the missile should be significantly higher when maneuvering the target. According to the TTD, they should not be compared, since the main goal of creating the R-37 is the destruction of AWACS, which theoretically cannot be approached closer, due to the powerful cover

[URAL72]

As I understand it, these are completely different missiles. And in terms of engine, fuel, weight, maneuverability, etc. Why compare them?

[The leader of the Redskins]

The feeling that Damantsev wrote the news. The one also - who hits higher, he plays better ...
Focus only on the firing range? A weird approach, although sofa experts often do just that.

[lucul]

Focus only on the firing range? A weird approach, although sofa experts often do just that

And what parameter of the rocket, you would call the key if the range you do not like)))
This is already a classic - as soon as there is some news proving the superiority of Russia, in any area - so some personalities immediately begin to worry))))

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: URAL72

As I understand it, these are completely different missiles. And in terms of engine, fuel, weight, maneuverability, etc. Why compare them?

Then, that these are the most long-range air-to-air missiles for them and for us. And in this they are exactly the same, otherwise yes, completely different.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Why compare them? ..... because this is a separate type of weapon, long-range missile defense, and weight and size characteristics are the second thing .... everything is the same as everywhere else, .. comparing MBT as it does not think that the T-72 weighs 45 -50 tons, and Abra and Leo-2 from 65-70 tons ... the first is the MBT class and then everything else

[mark1]

even the modernized version of the Meteor is significantly inferior to the Russian R-37 and R-37M aircraft missiles, which are capable of hitting targets at ranges of up to 400 km.

So after all, it is significantly inferior in weight - 190 and 600 kg

[Jacket in stock]

The meteor weighs 200 kg. Our R-37m is half a ton.
In addition to the flight range, it is also necessary to take into account maneuverability (meteor overloads up to 35, ours up to 22), guidance accuracy, "farsightedness" of the seeker locator, its noise immunity and viewing angles, and so on, so on and so forth ....
And given that the GOS 9B-1103M-350 "Washer" was made in the XNUMXs, on the element base of the last century, even by Russian standards, not to mention the "parallel reality" from Europe / America, it is hard to believe in the serious lag of the "meteor" highly.

[Thrifty]

The jacket in stock is -Р37М, judging by the letter M, modernized, it is not known whether it has the opportunity to go through the modernization further, because with the same military processors we, unlike the French, are strained.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Thrifty

because with the same processors of the military, in contrast to the French, we have a tension.

So I am about the same.
They already have in the series multi-channel seeker with radio + IR + TV sensors, if desired, they can easily insert them into this rocket.
And we have nothing of the kind and not close.

[lucul]

They already have in the series multi-channel seeker with radio + IR + TV sensors, if desired, they can easily insert them into this rocket.
And we have nothing of the kind and not close.

Well, how can you not understand - for example, you have a super modern pistol, but shooting only 10 meters, and me less modern, but shooting at 100 meters, how do you think, how would our duel in an open field end? )))

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: lucul

super modern pistol, but shooting only 10 meters, and me less modern, but shooting at 100m

In addition to a pistol, I also have, for example, a laser pointer that shines in your eye, and you cannot see me from 100 meters or 10 meters. And I have dark glasses, and I am not afraid of your pointer.
Then what will the duel end with?
Or my pistol shoots bullets, and yours rolls balls at me.
I’m just writing that range is far from the only important parameter.

[lucul]

In addition to a pistol, I also have, for example, a laser pointer that shines in your eye, and you cannot see me from 100 meters or 10 meters. And I have dark glasses, and I am not afraid of your pointer. Or my pistol shoots bullets, and yours rolls balls at me.
I’m just writing that range is far from the only important parameter.

This is all lyrics, from the category - "if I crack your ear, what kind of lace will you untie?"
I repeat to you a question - if the range of a missile is not the main parameter for you, then what is your main parameter for an air-to-air missile?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: lucul

if the range of the rocket is not the main parameter for you, then what is your main parameter for the rocket

I answer again
In addition to the flight range, you must also take into account at least speed, maneuverability, guidance accuracy, target capture range of the seeker, and its noise immunity.
A heavy, hulking rocket simply will not keep up with a maneuverable high-speed target.
A targeting error will lead to the fact that the warhead will not reach the target with shrapnel.
A blind seeker will require third-party target designation, which may not be available, and low noise immunity will make this whole venture with firing generally meaningless if the simplest electronic warfare turns the missile into a useless log.

[lucul]

I answer again
In addition to the flight range, you must also take into account at least speed, maneuverability, guidance accuracy, target capture range of the seeker, and its noise immunity.

Well, here's the introductory notes - everything you listed above, but the missile's range is only 10 km, it will help her a lot

speed, maneuverability, guidance accuracy, target acquisition range of the seeker, its noise immunity.

? ))))

A heavy, hulking rocket simply will not keep up with a maneuverable high-speed target.

The R-37M has a flight speed faster than any fighter - so again bypass)))

A targeting error will lead to the fact that the warhead will not reach the target with shrapnel.

Why should it happen if the missile seeker was originally made resistant to electronic warfare interference? )))

A blind seeker will require third-party target designation, which may not be available, and low noise immunity will make this whole venture with firing generally meaningless if the simplest electronic warfare turns the missile into a useless log.

The re-missile R-37M is insensitive to electronic warfare, so here again by.
So planes with Meteor missiles and AIM -120 have no chances.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: lucul

R-37M re-missile is insensitive to electronic warfare

And what happens?
It is simply less sensitive than the previous one. But we do not know the comparison with the GOS Meteor.
And knowing the ratio of our and their electronics, we can assume that the characteristics of the GOS will also not be in our favor.
It is clear that our craftsmen have been making candy out of g ... all their lives and have become very adept at it, but you still can't jump above your head.

[lucul]

And what happens?

Quite))))

The R-37M homing head has received advanced high-tech "brains". The GOS is equipped with a new miniature digital signal processor with a large memory capacity and increased speed. The seeker is immune to electronic warfare.

Content source: https://naukatehnika.com/finalnyie-ispyitaniya-sverxdalnobojnoj-giperzvukovoj-raketyi-r-37m.html
naukatehnika.com

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: lucul

R-37M homing head received advanced high-tech "brains"

Again, these are brains from 2014.
Those. actually made back in the XNUMXs, when our entire industry was lying on its side.
Yes, in comparison with the brains of 1980 made in the USSR, these were very advanced brains, but compared to the brains of 2016 made in Europe, it is far from a fact.
And by the way, the GOS R-37M sees a target of 5 sq.m. only 40 km, which means Rafal with its 2 sq.m. God forbid he will see from 20 km. But this Rafal will detect the launch of a rocket from a hundred and he will have a margin of time and use electronic warfare and make a maneuver.
And it's not a fact that the P37 will catch it with its overload of 22 units.
But from what distance Meteor will see our MiG or Sushka from their 20 square meters, we do not know. Probably a hundred. And 35 units of overload will be enough for him with a margin to catch the MiG31, and with a high probability of catching the Dry.

[lucul]

Again, these are brains from 2014.

Do you have details on the classified missile? Exactly 2014? )))) We operate with what is published in print.

Yes, in comparison with the brains of 1980 made in the USSR, these were very advanced brains, but compared to the brains of 2016 made in Europe, it is far from a fact.

Here range plays a role, not brains))) Your record is stuck on the seeker)))

And by the way, the GOS R-37M sees a target of 5 sq.m. only 40 km,

This is the data for the R-37, but we are talking about the R-37M)))

means Rafal with its 2 sq.m. God forbid he will see from 20 km. But this Rafal will detect the launch of a rocket with a hundred and he will have a margin of time and use electronic warfare and make a maneuver.

Do not forget that the R-37M missile is hypersonic and will cover a range of 300 km in about 5 minutes.

And it's not a fact that the P37 will catch it with its overload of 22 units.

Fact - they checked it on Sushki, which are much more maneuverable than Raphael / F-35)))

But from what distance Meteor will see our MiG or Sushka from their 20 square meters, we do not know. Probably a hundred. And 35 units of overload will be enough for him with a margin to catch the MiG31, and with a high probability of catching the Dry.

To launch Meteor Rafala, you must first find Drying. And on the Su-35, the radar detects an aircraft at a distance of 400 km, a stealth aircraft at 160 km)))
So Rafal with its missiles, with a range of 180 km, may not even take off.

[Dread]

Quote: Jacket in stock

And by the way, the GOS R-37M sees a target of 5 sq.m. only 40 km, which means Rafal with its 2 sq.m. is he God forbid will see from 20 km... But this Rafal will detect the launch of a rocket with a hundred and he will have a margin of time and use electronic warfare and make a maneuver.

Jacket in stock - no need to write lies! First, you write old data, Secondly think wrong, omitting the fourth root.
For your old data, for ARGSN P-37 will find Rafale not from 20 km, a c ~ 31 km. For R-37M (RVV-BD, product 610M), which is equipped with a new improved active radar seeker 9B-1103M-350 developed by JSC NII "Agat". For which, the maximum detection range is D = 67 km for targets with image intensifier tubes = 5 m2. Therefore, Rafal will be detected at range D ~ 53 km, and the overload capacity is enough to destroy any NATO aircraft, including Rafal.
Jacket in stock - in general, the distance from which the Rafal N035 Irbis Su-35S radar will be detected and the RVV-BD R-37M will be launched, Rafal will not have time to reach the launch line of his long-range Meteor missile and will be destroyed further!

[Usher]

Again, these are brains from 2014

So what? Does this make the rocket worse?

[onstar9]

Quote: lucul

The R-37M homing head has received advanced high-tech "brains". The GOS is equipped with a new miniature digital signal processor with a large memory capacity and increased speed. The seeker is immune to electronic warfare.

Yes, we know the usual "boasting" of the Russian military-industrial complex. If you believe them, then the West should "surrender without a fight" long ago ... As soon as they begin to enumerate the "capabilities" of our weapons, you just get into a stupor ...

[Dread]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Quote: lucul

R-37M re-missile is insensitive to electronic warfare

And what happens?
It is simply less sensitive than the previous one. But we do not know the comparison with the GOS Meteor.
And knowing the ratio of our and their electronics, we can assume that and the characteristics of the GOS will also not be in our favor.

Jacket in stock - you don't know what MARU, SHARU, VARU, amplifiers with a logarithmic characteristic, level limiters, etc. are?

[Crimean partisan 1974]

maneuverability (meteor overloads up to 35, ours up to 22), ...... there is an explanation. The indicated overloads are longitudinal (from stern to bow), that is, the ability of the hull to withstand launch loads, and transverse rates at the stern affect maneuverability, and so far they do not exceed 12 G. for all missiles. as for the 37M electronic base. then the oga was also replaced, the IS gyrocompasses were also replaced with electronic ones that significantly reduce the error in contrast to mechanical ones ... hence the conclusion that 37 because of its range is much more dangerous for AWACS aircraft and bombers than a meteor

[Dread]

Quote: Jacket in stock

And given that the GSN 9B-1103M-350 "Washer" was made in the XNUMXs, on the element base of the last century, even by Russian standards, not to mention the "parallel reality" from Europe / America, it is hard to believe in the serious lag of the 'meteor'.

Jacket in stock - everything flows and changes, is being finalized ... And you all write the same thing! Do not confuse microwave electronics with microelectronics, radio signals with video signals ...

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Dread

everything flows and changes, is being finalized

Yeahhhh?
And what has changed?
Do you have information about the new Russian GOS?

[lucul]

And given that the GOS 9B-1103M-350 "Washer" was made in the XNUMXs, on the element base of the last century, even by Russian standards, not to mention the "parallel reality" from Europe / America, it is hard to believe in the serious lag of the "meteor" highly.

The thing is that the seeker on the rocket can be changed in any direction, but the rocket engine is not changed, otherwise a different rocket will turn out.
And yes, given the ability of the R-37M missile to overload up to 22G, the chance for a fighter that has an overload limit of up to 10 G, let's say, is small - in this case, the range decides.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: lucul

GOS on a rocket, you can change

Well Duc and changed it.
In 2014.
Hence the letter M in the name.
Since then, a lot has changed in microelectronics, microwave and radio signal processing. But, apparently, not with us.
Well, video signals have nothing to do with it, there is no video channel in our GOS. We do not know how.

[d4rkmesa]

"a lot has changed since then." And where did you get the idea that "not with us", you forgot to report? About "Product 810" is sometimes written, most likely there and the GOS is already different.

[Dread]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Well, video signals have nothing to do with it, there is no video channel in our GOS. We do not know how.

Jacket in stock - in the radar of Russia and ARGSN there can be no coherent processing of signals by video frequency, again you are mistaken!

[Crimean partisan 1974]

the Meteor variant is significantly inferior to the Russian R-37 and R-37M aircraft missiles, along the way it will be enough for AWACS aircraft and bombers

[Your stranger]

Will fighters go in front of bombers and drlo?
But the NATO countries also develop unmanned aerial vehicles with a lowered EPR,

[Crimean partisan 1974]

In front of bombers and drills, fighters will not go? ..... maybe they will, but the goals and tasks for the long-range zone missile defense are not just small bipods, but the goals are fat and dangerous, I have designated them above ... you can add transporters and tankers, for everyone else there is a corresponding set of V-V missiles

[Your stranger]

Again,
Slave drones and fighters will go in front of bombers and so on!
And now the question is, how will you fly 400 km to the drone if there is a fighter or a drone with a reduced EPR in front of it 300 km, and will have a missile with a range of 250 km in service, and you will see it from a hundred km with your plane!

[Crimean partisan 1974]

, how will you fly 400 km to the drone, if there is a fighter or a drone with a lowered EPR in front of it 300 km, and will have ....... that is, you think that in such a situation, the 37-k carrier will be in splendid isolation. ..it looks naive .... he just needs to reach the launch line. define goals and launch .. everything. and the rest who are 100 km away will be dealt with by those who are intended for this ... just business

[lucul]

everything is business

To select a quote, in order to correctly insert the text - click on the "quotes" (far right), two inscriptions will appear
quote between them and paste the copied piece of text you want to highlight and that's it.
Try it, it’s hard to read you like that.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

To highlight a quote

.... I'll try

[Crimean partisan 1974]

norms. happened

[Your stranger]

Once again, at the turn of the launch, a warrant from fighters and drones will await that proud and lonely P37 carrier,
What is the detection range of f 35 by a su 35 or a moment 31?

[Crimean partisan 1974]

What is the detection range of f 35 by a su 35 or a moment 31?

------ 180 km .... and what's the difference, the swarm is not a swarm, the main thing is to get into position and the rocket itself will find the target fatter

[Your stranger]

If you don't come out, f 35 will find you earlier and launch a rocket

[Crimean partisan 1974]

You will not get out, f 35 ...... for what purpose did you decide to hang noodles ... The MiG-31 was sharpened in the USSR as a system for intercepting low-flying objects such as Tomogavk and others against the background of the underlying surface, and they succeeded in this at the moment we have multiplied this device .... so why put noodles on our ears .. if you are sure that the EPR of the penguin is lower than that of the Tomogavka. then you automatically become an object of ridicule ... and even so, how can a penguin intercept the 31st which is walking at an altitude of 20 km at a speed of 2500 km per hour ... but how come tell me

[Your stranger]

Why would f 35 intercept moment 31, if the second one flies to meet him?
Second

The Global Security resource cites data that the EPR of the F-22 fighter is the lowest among the combat aircraft in service with the US Air Force. According to reports that appeared in November 2005, the US Air Force stated that the frontal RCS (in front of +/- 20 ° from the longitudinal axis) of the F-22 is 0,0001-0,0002 sq. m. In comparison, the RCS from the same angle of the F-35 fighter is 0,0015 sq. m, that is, about 10 times more than the F-22. The RCS of the F-35 is equal to that of the F-117 tactical stealth bomber and is comparable to the RCS of the B-2 strategic bomber. In turn, the RCS of the V-2 is half that of the F-117. It also cites data that the frontal RCS of the Russian MiG-29 fighter is approximately 5 sq. m.
Source: http://bastion-karpenko.ru/f-35-lightning-ii/ VTS "BASTION" AVKarpenko

EPR Tomahawk 0.05!
Irbis sees 0.01 at 100 km, and 0.1 at 160 km!

[Crimean partisan 1974]

frontal EPR (front

..... and from above ???

EPR Tomahawk 0.05!
Irbis sees 0.01 at 100 km, and 0.1 at 160 km!

...... again in the frontal ... and on top of the underlying one .... it was not in vain that he pointed out the act that the working altitude of the MiG-31 is 21 km ... a penguin with a normal load above 19 km cannot climb. with weapons is also problematic

[Your stranger]

Between 21 and 19 at a distance of 150 or even 100 km, how many degrees will there be?
This is the same as the frontal EPR!
The second 21 km is a practical and not a dynamic ceiling at the moment of 31!
The real height is 10-14 km as for me,
By the way, how will the blink 31 be on the radar at altitude?

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Between 21 and 19 at a distance of 150 or even 100 km, how many degrees will there be?
This is the same as the frontal EPR!

... there is no Wan, any excess in height and the target will be in the background of the earth. and without a difference, the only thing that sellekts will reveal by signature is who is who ...
[quoteThe second 21 km is a practical and not a dynamic ceiling at the moment of 31!
The real height is 10-14 km as for me,] [/ quote] .... even if you're all confused. ... the dynamic ceiling of the 31st is 30 meters ... you confused the comfortable ceiling ... the fact is that the comfortable ceiling of the 000st is a flight in the tropopause, that is, in the lower boundary of the ozone layer, above which the atmospheric pressure drops sharply ... closer to the poles it is 31-14 km and closer to the tropics 16-20 ...

By the way, how will the blink 31 be on the radar at altitude?

..... very wonderful ... just a bite is almost impossible

[Your stranger]

If we take into account the radius of the earth, then the target is not always against the background of the earth, especially if the excess of 2 km at a distance of 100 km and at a total altitude of 20 km!
Once again, the dynamic ceiling is from a jump,
And practical there is 21 km!
Service ceiling:
up to 30000 m (dynamic)
up to 21500 m [35] (practical)

[Your stranger]

Not working but maximum 21 km, more only with a jump!
Now draw a triangle where the distance is, tobto the hypotenuse is 100 km, and the difference in altitude, tobto the leg is 2 km, since the maximum speed of 35 will be 19 km,
And you will see that in that projection EPR f 35 is almost frontal,
And second,
And at what distance will f 35 see the moment 31?
Here's an article for you on topvar
About moment 31 and its capabilities and disadvantages,
https://topwar.ru/34518-nebo-istrebitelya-perspektivy-perehvatchika-mig-31.html

[Usher]

Why would f 35 intercept moment 31, if the second one flies to meet him?

how is that why? Then why bother with planes? He needs to intercept in order to survive.

[Dread]

Quote: Stranger

The United States Air Force stated that the frontal RCS (in front of +/- 20 ° from the longitudinal axis) of the F-22 is 0,0001-0,0002 sq. m. In comparison, the RCS from the same angle of the F-35 fighter is equal to 0,0015 sq. m

"Constructor's" Tales Lockheed - Martin Keep It For Yourself and do not write nonsense, Not understanding, what average the value of the image intensifier and what is instant value! Moreover, the value of the F-35 image intensifier is greater than that of the F-22, and not vice versa ...

Quote: Stranger

EPR Tomahawk 0.05!
Irbis sees 0.01 at 100 km, and 0.1 at 160 km!

A stranger - for a start, learn how to accurately calculate distances by radar:
Detection range of N035 "Irbis" radar D = 400 km for targets with image intensifier = 3 m2, therefore:
1. The radar N035 "Irbis" will detect a target with an image intensifier = 0,1 m2 at a distance of D ~ 170 km,
not 160 km.
2. The radar N035 "Irbis" will detect a target with an image intensifier = 0,01 at a distance of D ~ 96 km, not 100 km.

[Ugochaves]

The first wave is targets for the ground component of the S-400 {300} air defense, and the fighters clear the rest. At least I think so logically. What will the air defense specialists say?

[lucul]

Again,
Slave drones and fighters will go in front of bombers and so on!
And now the question is, how will you fly 400 km to the drone if there is a fighter or a drone with a reduced EPR in front of it 300 km, and will have a missile with a range of 250 km in service, and you will see it from a hundred km with your plane!

A counter question - how will the AWACS aircraft resolve the issue with the S-500, which has missiles, with a range of 480 km? )))

[Dread]

Quote: lucul

A counter question - how will the AWACS aircraft resolve the issue with the S-500, which has missiles, with a range of 480 km? )))

The best answer is “removed from the tongue”!

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: lucul

How will the AWACS aircraft resolve the issue with the S-500, which has missiles, with a range of 480 km?

The cover fighter would shoot her down.
Or reject by means of electronic warfare.

[lucul]

The cover fighter would shoot her down.

Whom will it hit? Have you seen the speeds of С400 / 500 missiles? ))) This is from the category - I caught a bullet with my hand.)))

Or reject by means of electronic warfare.

This is generally a cool gem))) Indeed - why should an airplane be afraid? He will use electronic warfare to drive away all missiles)))

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: lucul

Have you seen the speeds of С400 / 500 missiles? ))) This is from the category - I caught a bullet with my hand.)))

If you shoot straight ahead, then speed is not critical.
Long-range missiles are very large and have a powerful engine. Accordingly, they are detected immediately at the start. There will be more than time for a meeting at the target.

Quote: lucul

cool pearl))) Indeed - why be afraid of an airplane? He will use electronic warfare to drive off all missiles)

Well, like bum, even missiles are being taken away from the ships. And there the target is much larger by an order of magnitude, and the seeker in the rocket is more powerful. And less speed. And yet they never hit.

[lucul]

Long-range missiles are very large and have a powerful engine. Accordingly, they are detected immediately at the start. There will be more than time for a meeting at the target.

What meeting, dear? )))
The R-37M rocket switches to hypersonic at the end of its flight - why are you going to shoot down a hypersonic missile? ))))

Well, like bum, even missiles are being taken away from the ships. And there the target is much larger by an order of magnitude, and the seeker in the rocket is more powerful. And less speed.

I repeat - unresponsive))) (in 10-20 years it may appear)

And yet they never hit.

On a rocket? I believe)))

[Usher]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Well, like bum, even missiles are being taken away from the ships. And there the target is much larger by an order of magnitude, and the seeker in the rocket is more powerful. And less speed. And yet they never hit.

Who said they were taking away? There are completely different principles.

[Dread]

Quote: Jacket in stock

The cover fighter would shoot her down.
Or reject by means of electronic warfare.

Jacket in stock - ARGSN R-37M is not sensitive to interference. There has never been a case in the history of aviationso that the RVV, and even more so with a supersonic more than 4M, is knocked down by an air-to-air rocket ...

[Your stranger]

Dread, the detection range of the p 37 head will be 30 km,
And before that, she flies on a tip from an airplane

[Crimean partisan 1974]

and how the AWACS aircraft will resolve the issue with the S-500,

Well, then the grandmother said for two ... firstly, in fact, this is a positional air defense system, and for example, an AWACS Sentry aircraft and others like it may not even enter the firing zone while performing their tasks ... in this regard, it is not possible to block the entire space of the air defense missile system ... that's just for these purposes, and there are 37-ki and the like, ... especially if there are carriers that can hold a speed of 2600-2900 km per hour for a long time ... here really there is nothing for AWACS to cover

[lucul]

Well, then the grandmother said for two ..

As soon as the AWACS plane turns on its radar, it glows like a Christmas tree and is very far away. And if it doesn't include it, then why is it needed? ))

[Crimean partisan 1974]

As soon as the AWACS aircraft turns on its radar -

yu ...... that's the trick, the air defense missile system sees and the tooth doesn’t need it .. taking into account the moment that the Sentry has a view of up to 1000 km in a radius It will cost a lot to break through to it ... and the MiG-31 with 37 to the launch position is easy ... a useful symbiosis of the carrier and the weapon

[lucul]

given the moment that Sentry's view is up to 1000 km in a radius

This is against air targets)))
And against the terrestrial ones, everything is limited to the radio horizon - and it is at an altitude of 9 m - somewhere 000 km.
That is, both the Sentry and the S-400 will detect each other at the same time - and the Sentry will not leave the missile.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

This is against air targets)))

...... well Duc AWACS and is intended to work on airspace control, surface targets are secondary. why would he go into the heat, for this there are other cars, including the Wild Weasles, and so AWACS do a lot of nasty things in their place, just like bombers, transporters and tankers ... that is, a bunch of Foxhound ----- R- 37 this is a very threatening system for such purposes

[Usher]

What is Foxhound?

[onstar9]

Quote: lucul

That is, both the Sentry and the S-400 will detect each other at the same time - and the Sentry will not leave the missile.

Well, it won't go away. Will turn in the opposite direction and leave. This will be so at the range of the S-400 missiles, and if AWACS flies 100 km in a few minutes, the missile will not reach it. Obviously, all these things are miscalculated and they will not substitute AWACS just like that. If there are even more long-range S-500 \ 600, then AWACS will be made even more long-range and will take it even further from the territory of possible defeat.

[Your stranger]

SAM S-500 "Prometheus"
A type
long and medium-range anti-aircraft missile system (SAM)
Country
Russia
Service history
Years of operation
from about 2025
History of production
Constructor
Concern East Kazakhstan region "Almaz-Antey"
Manufacturer
Almaz-Antey
Years of production
with 2022

[Prisoner]

And what is there to be surprised? Traditions, EPRST!

[Gennady Fomkin]

They don't know about Leprechaun and Kobold yet, gremlin

[Ros 56]

And what, the French are going to fight with us? Let them remember the etymology of the word - bistro. Good for your health.

[Prisoner]

And they don’t need it. From below they rely on Bandera, and from above on mattresses. Then they will squeal: "I'm not guilty."

[rotmistr60]

In the event of an air collision, Russian fighters will gain a significant advantage over French aircraft in terms of range.

The Russians have an advantage here, there is an advantage, and the question arises - is it worth it for the French and their allies to ask for trouble? But they still assume a clash.

[voyaka uh]

100 km is the approximate real distance from which a fighter can
lead your own explosive missile to the target with your own radar.
For greater distances, external target designation from other radars will be required.

[Dread]

Quote: voyaka uh

Longer distances external target designation from other radars will be required.

voyaka uh- do not confuse RVV-VD R-37M with ARGSN and RVV-BD with semi-active guidance!

[Pavel57]

Meteor is an interesting rocket, ramjet engine allows to reduce weight and ensure constant speed along the trajectory. Minus - limitation of altitude due to the same ramjet engine. This is partly why we did not develop the R-77 with a ramjet engine.

[Pavel57]

Quote: Dread

"R-37M is designed to destroy air targets ........ including with multichannel shelling according to the" fire-and-forget "principle

"Let it go, forget it" with a target acquisition range of about 30 km. will be 50 km. So you need to fly after the rocket and give the target coordinates correction.

[Dread]

Quote: Pavel57

"Let it go, forget it" with a target acquisition range of about 30 km. will be 50 km. So you need to fly after the rocket and give the target coordinates correction.

Pavel57, the RVV-BD R-37M rocket receives data at the beginning of the flight, and then flies along the INS and at the final stage along the ARGSN, the speed at the final stage of the flight is V = 6M.

[AlexeyEg]

The main thing is not distance .. but what would hit the target .. in conditions of versatile opposition.

[Vadim Ananyin]

This is very good!

[Pavel57]

Quote: Dread

Pavel57, the RVV-BD R-37M rocket receives data at the beginning of the flight, and then flies along the INS and at the final stage along the ARGSN, the speed at the final stage of the flight is V = 6M.

Since the launch range is significantly greater than the target acquisition range of the ARGS, it is required to give radio correction to the coordinates of the target, otherwise any target maneuver will lead to the non-capture of the ARGS.
This is the principle of any modern "in-in" missile with ARGS (R-77, R-37M, AMRAAM, etc.)

The speed at the final stage does not matter, but it is unlikely that it is more than 4 swings. After the end of the work, it is 6 M, but then it decreases due to friction against the air.)))) In a rocket with a ramjet, the speed is constant, but about 4 M along the entire trajectory.

[Pavel57]

Quote: Dread

voyaka uh - do not confuse RVV-VD R-37M with ARGSN and RVV-BD with semi-active guidance!

There is a difference, but it is necessary to monitor the target and correct its coordinates before the capture of ARGS in the first case and highlight the target before hitting the target in the second. That is, the advantage of a missile with an ARGS is precisely in the ability not to care about the target and to be able to make evasive maneuvers earlier, which naturally affects the survivability in an oncoming engagement. There are situations when, in principle, it is impossible to make evasive maneuvers, then this advantage will not be so important.

[nks]

Note a million pluses. A diamond sample of selective delirium.
1. The French Air Force received the Meteor airborne missile system several years ago. The news is, in fact, that the first mission was completed in a meteor configuration.
2. URVV Meteor does not "should replace the MICA missile" at all - these are missiles of different classes. Meteor long-range only with ARLGSN, MICA - near-average in 2 variants with ARLGSN and IR-GOS.
3. Both missiles are the best in their class.

[Dread]

Quote: nks

3. Both missiles are the best in their class.

You are not telling the truth! Please link to your material. RVV-BD "Meteor" never been the best in its class, as evidenced by the short range of D = 180 km ...

[nks]

I am not telling a lie - they are not giving false information. I express my opinion about the effectiveness, which, in principle, you can dispute. Range by itself is not the only or determining factor in efficiency. Saying D = 180 km., Apparently, you do not understand what the speech is about. In any case, 180 km belongs to the long-range class. Conditional 300 km - to the super-large class. R-37M is designed primarily against large, low-maneuverable targets such as AWACS aircraft, against fighter-type targets, its effectiveness is lower than both METEOR and MICA

[Dread]

Quote: nks

Conditional 300 km - to the super-large class. R-37M is designed primarily against large, low-maneuverable targets such as AWACS aircraft, against fighter-type targets, its effectiveness is lower than both METEOR and MICA

You have not read the material ahead of the discussions, I repeat:

"R-37M is designed to destroy air targets (fighters, attack aircraft, bombers, military transport aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles), at any time of the day, at all angles, in the conditions of electronic countermeasures, against the background of the earth and water surfaces, including with multichannel shelling according to the "let it go and forget it" principle.
https://missilery.info/missile/r37

nks - no need to write old lies, I gave you the link!

[Avior]

intended, only the question is at what range for different targets. Don't you think that the launch range for a fighter and a BTA aircraft will be the same?

[nks]

The fragment you cited and the entire text on the link does not contradict my statement in any way, but only confirms it. This, in particular, is evidenced by "Overload of hit targets, g 8". The same value is indicated on the website of the Vympel ICB manufacturer. Above, you wrote about "the overload capacity of the RVV-BD R-37M is 22 g", but you did not provide any evidence for this statement. We're waiting :)

[onstar9]

Quote: Dread

“R-37M is designed to destroy air targets (fighters, attack aircraft, bombers, military transport aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles), at any time of the day, at all angles, in conditions of electronic countermeasures, against the background of the earth and water surface, in including with multichannel shelling on the principle of "let it go and forget it."
https://missilery.info/missile/r37

Well, all Russian gunsmiths write such word for word when they advertise their developments. Exactly with the same text as you have given here, without spaces. Carbon copy. They include everything, in one pile, all the possibilities and parameters of defeat that you can imagine. They promise everything. They don't write "Under water and earth" yet ... But soon they will start, probably ...

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

They don't know about Leprechaun and Kobold yet, gremlin

And tested on Israeli pilots

[Pavel57]

Quote: nks

Saying D = 180 km., Apparently, you do not understand what the speech is about. In any case, 180 km belongs to the long-range class. Conditional 300 km - to the super-large class. R-37M is designed primarily against large, low-maneuverable targets such as AWACS aircraft, against fighter-type targets, its effectiveness is lower than both METEOR and MICA

The maximum range is 200, 300 km. sounds great, but in the calculated case, the flight altitude is not lower than average, the speed of the aircraft and the target are maximum. In real life, you need to divide the Dmax in half - 90-100 km is already good.

[Avior]

by 2023, it is planned to test the Meteor with the AFAR GOS from Mitsubishi AAM-4B.
With PVD and AFAR GOS, this is a fundamentally new generation rocket.

[Dread]

Quote: Avior

by 2023 year plans are to test the Meteor with the AFAR GOS from Mitsubishi AAM-4B.
With PVD and AFAR GOS, this is a fundamentally new generation rocket.

Avior - we still have to live until 2023 ...
And no one knows what will be there! Talk about the present.

[Avior]

at the present time, no one knows how many P-37m the troops actually have and whether they are in significant quantities.
As for 2023, the Japanese and the British are making rockets based on the Japanese seeker.
And the prvd is already there, long-tested

[Dread]

Quote: Avior

at the present time, no one knows how many P-37m the troops actually have and whether they are in significant quantities.

Avior is the answer of an Israeli, they have no other way ...

[nks]

Dred, so there will be a proof about "the overload capacity of the RVV-BD R-37M is 22 g"?
Otherwise, you will have to assume that you are not telling the truth here.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: nks

Dred, so there will be a proof about "the overload capacity of the RVV-BD R-37M is 22 g"?

I'm not a Dred, but let me remind you that the overload capacity of the P-37m of 22 units does not in any way negate the defeat of a target with a maximum overload of 8 units.
To catch a maneuvering target, a rocket must be able to maneuver with an overload several times greater.

[nks]

In this case, I'm interested in Dred's responsibility for his words. In general, the maximum permissible overload of the target depends not only on the max. permissible overload of the rocket itself. Plus, the matmodels may be different - it may happen that for an 8g target and a 22g missile it will not be enough.

[Dread]

Quote: nks

In this case, I'm interested in Dred's responsibility for his words.

I, unlike you, answer for my words and do not deliberately write nonsense. Accurate data is not given on the Internet - learn to count!

[nks]

OK. So we will write down - Dread is a petty liar and a balabol.

[Dread]

Quote: nks

OK. So we will write down - Dread is a petty liar and a balabol.

Russophobe - and in Africa, Russophobe! So we will write down, nk and others - an illiterate liar and a scoundrel ...

[Dread]

Quote: Jacket in stock

To catch a maneuvering target, the rocket must be able to maneuver with an overload of several times more.

A jacket in stock - not several times, but only 2 times or more. Example:

The DK317 Buk-M2 multifunctional highly mobile anti-aircraft missile system (SAM) is designed to destroy tactical and strategic aircraft, cruise missiles, helicopters (including hovering ones) and other aerodynamic aircraft in the entire range of their practical application ... It has:
1. Anti-aircraft missile 9M317, which ensures the destruction of targets with maximum overload 12 g, while the overload capacity of the anti-aircraft missile itself 24 g.
https://missilery.info/missile/buk-2m

This confirms once again:

"R-37M is designed to destroy air targets (fighters, attack aircraft, bombers, military transport aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles), at any time of the day, at all angles, in the conditions of electronic countermeasures, against the background of the earth and water surfaces, including with multichannel shelling according to the "let it go and forget it" principle.

[Pavel57]

Quote: Dread

For which, the maximum detection range is D = 67 km for targets with image intensifier tubes = 5 m2. Therefore, Rafale will be detected at a distance of D ~ 53 km,

Exactly from the radar formula.

And for the image intensifier = 0,1 m2, Dzakh-25 km.
Based on the accuracy of the system, usually Dpuska is 5-7 Dzakh.

[Hexenmeister]

Based on the accuracy of the system, usually Dpuska is 5-7 Dzakh.

The launch range will be primarily determined by the parameters of the carrier's movement and the parameters of the target's movement, roughly speaking, the height and speed of the use of weapons and the excess / lowering of the target over the carrier!

[Pavel57]

Quote: Hexenmeister

The launch range will be primarily determined by the parameters of the carrier's movement and the parameters of the target's movement, roughly speaking, the height and speed of the use of weapons and the excess / lowering of the target over the carrier!

The launch range is primarily determined by the accuracy of obtaining the parameters of the target movement in conditions of interference,. as well as the accuracy of the inertial system of the rocket and its binding to the inertial system of the carrier.

[Hexenmeister]

Then give us the launch range from a carrier at an altitude of 100 m to a target reaching at an altitude of 10000 m, and from a carrier at an altitude of 10000 m to a target at an altitude of 10000 m, to a meeting in simple, interference-free conditions, although for any V-V missile you know!

[Pavel57]

I did not understand why it was necessary to take two points from the zone of permitted launches. The rocket has energy limitations, determined by its engine and aerodynamic capabilities, and informational limitations, determined by the guidance accuracy. I talked about aiming accuracy. Using the R-23 and R-24 missiles as an example, I can explain the idea. The energy range was close (with certain reservations), but the informational range was different, since information on target movement was entered into the R-24 before launch, and the missile was immediately guided to the target (mathematical) .. And if the R-23 had a launch range of 1,1, 24 from Dzakh then at R-1,3 - XNUMX.
For missiles without radio correction, this range is up to 1,5, no more. Next, you need to introduce radio correction for the movement of the target. The first such missile was the R-27. But she had an inertial system built on a gyro-stabilized platform RGS and a radio correction system for the parameters of target movement. To reduce the errors of the inertial system, we switched to the classical ANN. But all the same, even if the errors of the INS can be reduced, then there will be errors in the measurement of the coordinates of the target and the binding of the inertial systems of the rocket and the carrier.

[Hexenmeister]

I did not understand why it was necessary to take two points from the zone of permitted launches. The rocket has energy limitations, determined by its engine and aerodynamic capabilities, and informational limitations, determined by the guidance accuracy.

You yourself have confirmed the absurdity of your formula between the capture range of the head and the launch range. If the rocket does not have enough energy to reach the target, then the range of capturing the head and the accuracy of the launch of the rocket are absolutely indifferent. In the case of "100 m by 10 km", there will be no errors, and the head can normally capture the target, only the launch ranges will be scanty, since the rocket will not have enough energy. But when "from 10 to 10 km" the situation is quite acceptable that the rocket can fly farther than the "point in accuracy".

[Pavel57]

There is no absurdity. If the missile reaches it, but does not capture the target, then there is no point in issuing a launch permit.
All these features are introduced into the OMS algorithm, namely, the zone of possible launches and restrictions on the launch conditions.

[Maxim_ok]

compared a rocket weighing 190 kg with rockets weighing 510-600 kg. well done