Military Review

Why Stalin did not believe in the attack of the Third Reich to the last

186

From left to right: head. the Legal Department of the German Foreign Ministry Friedrich Gauss, Joachim von Ribbentrop, Joseph Stalin and Vyacheslav Molotov during the signing of the pact. Source: Wikimedia Commons



Historians and publicists are still arguing about Stalin's behavior on the verge of war. Why did he not heed the warnings of the Western powers and Soviet intelligence? Why to the last he held on to the illusion of an alliance with Germany and ordered the troops

"Not to give in to provocations"?

There were reports from Soviet intelligence about the upcoming German attack - from the famous Sorge, Olga Chekhova, the Schulze-Boysen group, and others.

There were warnings from foreign diplomats and politicians, from Churchill and Roosevelt. A lot of information about the preparation of the German offensive was received through various channels. Rumors about it circulated in Europe and America, were published in the press. And in the USSR they saw that the Nazis concentrated their divisions on the border.

Why didn't Stalin react?

Disinformation or truth?


The problem is that everything is clear and understandable now. On June 22, 1941, the Wehrmacht launched an offensive. At the beginning of 1941, the picture was different.

So why did Stalin have to believe England?

British capital financed the Nazis, and from 1933 London directed Hitler to the war with Russia. That England consistently surrendered Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland. That the British, in effect, allowed the Germans to occupy Norway.

Trust the Americans?

The situation is no better. American capital also financed the Nazis and helped arm the Reich. Therefore, Stalin quite sensibly perceived the warnings of the British and Americans as an attempt to play off the Germans and Russians again, and at their expense to resolve the crisis of capitalism. And it was true.

Britain and the United States did their best to push Germany and the USSR against each other. The war between Russia and Germany was fully in line with British and American interests.

There was no clarity in the intelligence data either.

In 1941 she reported not only the plans of the strike. The most diverse and contradictory information flowed to Moscow from agents all over the world. The analytical department was still weak. I could not highlight the main thing, give a correct assessment, cut off the truth from misinformation and rumors.

The reports and rumors about the approaching war coincided with the information that came from Churchill. Therefore, they were treated with caution. It was suspected that this was part of a British information campaign to push the Germans against the USSR.

Churchill also changed his testimony more than once: the timing of the attack changed, but the Germans did not attack.

Many knowledge - many sorrows


There is one more important feature to consider. Stalin was privy to many secrets stories... He knew about the true background, preparation and goals of the First World War. How London managed to play off the Germans and the Russians. Destroy the Russian Empire.

Therefore, Stalin tried to avoid the mistakes of the tsarist government and Nicholas II. To avoid drawing Russia into a new world war, to stay above the clash of capitalist predators.

Thus, Moscow managed to avoid the Japanese trap - a full-scale war in the Far East. Although England and the United States did their best to play off the Japanese and the Russians again, as in 1904.

If the tsarist government strictly and honestly adhered to the alliance with France and England, while the "allies" constantly betrayed us. That Stalin, seeing that the French and British are showing even more "flexibility" than on the eve of and during the First World War, decided to reorient himself to Germany.

He did what Nicholas II could not - made an alliance with Berlin (this could save the Russian Empire, give it a chance to revolutionize "from above"). However, the Third Reich was very different from the Second (Prussian, monarchical line). Hitler was initially "sharpened" as weapon against Russia. Therefore, the union was doomed to failure.

In World War I, the events in the Balkans became the pretext for war. Our enemies used the traditional friendship between the Russians and the Serbs. Then the "world behind the scenes" managed to kill the Austrian heir to the throne, Archduke Franz Ferdinand, in Sarajevo with the help of Serbian conspirators. In response, Austria-Hungary attacked Serbia. Russia stood up for Belgrade. Britain showed the Germans that it would remain neutral. Germany has declared war on Russia. And Europe was on fire.

In 1941, a similar situation developed. Different parties fought for power in Belgrade. After the coup, the new government was frantically looking for someone to befriend, and offered Moscow a treaty of friendship and non-aggression. Moscow was delighted, and the agreement was signed on April 5.

But when the German ambassador to the USSR Werner Schulenburg was notified of this, he was very alarmed (he was a supporter of an alliance with Russia and did not want a Russian-German war). He announced that the time was not right for this.

Indeed, on April 6, the Wehrmacht attacked Yugoslavia. As a result, the situation looked very similar to the summer of 1914. For provocation. Stalin did not intercede for Yugoslavia.

An attempt to outplay the opponent


The Soviet leader also knew that from the very beginning there was a strong pro-Western wing in Berlin, which pushed Hitler to an offensive not against France and England, but against Russia. Many representatives of the German elite wanted an alliance with Britain directed against the USSR.

Soviet intelligence informed Stalin about the continuation of secret contacts between the German elite and the British. This convinced Stalin of the correctness of his own conclusions and of the hypocrisy of the Western powers. It was necessary to push Hitler to the right choice. Replay Western democracies and German Westernizers.

If the war cannot be avoided, so that it is almost impossible, then it can be postponed. Complete military programs. Wait until the main Western powers are defeated or weakened, enter the war at the right time and avoid heavy losses (as the United States did).

Stalin assumed that Hitler could be deceived, misled. That misinformation is being launched by the Americans and the British. Therefore, he made every effort to gain time, to postpone the war. I made various concessions.

So, in the spring of 1941, Germany suspended the execution of Soviet orders at its enterprises. And the USSR will continue to drive echelons with resources to the Reich. Even ahead of schedule. German assurances about the difficulties of wartime were "believed".

The more frequent provocations of the German military on the border turned a blind eye. The question of a personal meeting between Stalin and Hitler was being worked out in order to dispel all misunderstandings.

Hess mission


On May 10, 1941, one of the Fuehrer's deputies for the party, "Nazi number three" Rudolf Hess, flew to England. According to the official version, this was a personal initiative of Hess, who wanted to achieve reconciliation with England. He was a good pilot, he flew during the First World War. I was going to land at the estate of the Scottish Lord Hamilton, his friend, and begin negotiations. But he was allegedly mistaken and had to jump out with a parachute.

Hess was never in opposition to Hitler, was one of his most loyal associates. He knew about almost all the secrets of the Nazis, in particular, about the funding channels in the 1920s and early 1930s. He was also a hierarch of the secret society "Thule", which studied secret sacred knowledge.

It is worth noting the role of the "black sun" in the history of the Reich and Hitler.

Hitler and his entourage believed in secret knowledge. A number of magicians and astrologers acted as consultants to the Nazis in all matters. In turn, the secret clubs and orders of the Reich were associated with Masonic structures in Western democracies. Occultists suggested to Hess that a secret alliance between England and Germany was inevitable.

However, Moscow had excellent agents in England, and learned a lot about this mission. It turned out that through Hess, Hitler was offered a secret alliance with London.

The British cabinet was afraid that the Reich would really take over England. War at sea and in the air will be intensified. Hitler will postpone plans for a war in the East. Will build a powerful fleet, especially underwater.

After Greece and Yugoslavia there will be Turkey, German divisions will appear in the Middle East, they will occupy Suez and Iraq. They will target Iran, where pro-German sentiments are strong, and then India. The Germans will occupy Gibraltar and destroy the British bases in the Mediterranean. In that case, Britain's defeat is inevitable.

To push the Germans against the Russians again, the British played another provocation. Hitler was promised that while he was fighting the Russians, there would be no real second front. Only an imitation of an irreconcilable struggle.

This is what actually happened until 1944, when it became obvious to London and Washington that the Reich had lost to the Russians and it was time to share the skin of the German bear. Therefore, Hess was never released from prison, apparently poisoned there. He knew a lot about the Reich, Hitler, his connections with Western democracies and his secret mission.

In Germany itself, seeing that the secret was not observed, they renounced Hess and declared him mentally ill. The British edited the minutes of the negotiations with Hess and sent them to Moscow. Like, this is proof of Hitler's meanness and his readiness to attack the USSR. It was assumed that Stalin would join the new Entente, prepare the army for war with Germany. It is possible that it will even deliver a preemptive blow to the Germans.

It was these facts that could be used in order to play off the Germans and the Russians again. Stalin learned this.

Thus, the provocation with Hess became further proof of the meanness of Britain. Increased Moscow's distrust of information that came from London and Washington.

Moscow, as before, did its best to postpone the start of the war.

It is also necessary to remember about objective data.

Stalin knew that Germany was not ready for a long, difficult war. Joseph Vissarionovich had a better opinion of the Fuhrer, believed that he would not go on an adventure. Germany, its armed forces and economy were not ready for a war with the USSR.

However, Hitler made a fatal choice and bet on a blitzkrieg.
Author:
Photos used:
http://waralbum.ru/
186 comments
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  1. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 22 January 2021 04: 51
    +9
    All this parsley is a kind of chess. Sometimes they lose, it just so happens.
  2. svp67
    svp67 22 January 2021 04: 57
    +19
    Why to the last he held on to the illusion of an alliance with Germany and ordered the troops
    "Not to give in to provocations"?
    Because the USSR was not ready and tried in every possible way to delay this time. The USSR simply did not have enough time to deploy troops.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 22 January 2021 05: 50
      +8
      In the memoirs of the Soviet scientist and philosopher Zinoviev, who was later subjected, it is written that the attacks were expected, the troops were ready all the time, and a few days before the attack they were given dry rations and everything else necessary.
      1. svp67
        svp67 22 January 2021 06: 17
        +5
        Quote: Reptiloid
        and a few days before the attack, they were given dry rations and everything else necessary.

        But they did not have time to reach the required density of troops ...
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 22 January 2021 06: 21
          +6
          Quote: svp67
          ... But they did not manage to reach the required density of troops ...
          this just explains the need to try at all costs not to speed up the attack time
          1. svp67
            svp67 22 January 2021 06: 24
            +4
            Quote: Reptiloid
            this just explains the need to try at all costs not to speed up the attack time

            And there is...
            1. novel66
              novel66 22 January 2021 08: 07
              -2
              everyone knew everything, but were not ready for the blitzkrieg. Zhukov believed that the Germans would not be in a hurry to advance, and then he would counter them ...
              1. svp67
                svp67 22 January 2021 08: 14
                +6
                Quote: novel xnumx
                everyone knew everything, but they were not ready for the blitzkrieg.

                No, we weren't ready ...
                Quote: novel xnumx
                Zhukov believed that the Germans would not be in a hurry to advance, and then he would counter them ...

                No, you're wrong. Someone, but Zhukov knew very well and knew how to carry out flank strikes, which he demonstrated at the Khalkin Gol. His main mistake was that he, as the Chief of General Staff, assumed that the Germans would strike the main blow in Ukraine.
                1. novel66
                  novel66 22 January 2021 08: 41
                  -2
                  but no! they perfectly knew the direction of the main attack, and in the Ukraine they were preparing a counter strike, all the mechanized corps, read it, were there. send a book?
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 22 January 2021 08: 57
                    +3
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    but no! knew perfectly well the direction of the main oud

                    Prove ...
                    in December 1940, Zhukov argued that the main forces of Germany would be aimed against the KOVO (SWF), which means that "the main attack of the enemy should be expected here."
                    And this is from the draft operational plan dated May 15, 1941.
                    "Considerations of the General Staff of the Red Army
                    according to the strategic deployment plan of the Armed Forces of the Soviet Union
                    in case of war with Germany and its allies "
                    I am submitting for your consideration considerations on the strategic deployment plan of the Armed Forces of the Soviet Union in case of war with Germany and its allies.
                    I.
                    Currently, Germany, according to the Intelligence Directorate of the Red Army [1], has deployed about 230 infantry, 22 tank, 20 motorized, 8 air and 4 cavalry divisions, and a total of about 284 divisions.
                    Of these, on the borders of the Soviet Union, as of 15.05.41, up to 86 infantry, 13 tank, 12 motorized and 1 cavalry divisions are concentrated, and up to 112 divisions in total.
                    It is assumed that in the current political situation, Germany, in the event of an attack on the USSR, will be able to put up against us - up to 137 infantry, 19 tank, 15 motorized, 4 cavalry and 5 airborne divisions, and up to 180 divisions in total.
                    The remaining 104 divisions will probably be in the center of the country in reserve - 22 infantry divisions, 1 cd, 1 td, 1 airborne division, 25 divisions in total; in Denmark, Belgium, Holland and France - 40 pd, 2 cd, 1 td, 2 air. dec. div., 45 divisions in total; Yugoslavia - 7 infantry divisions, 7 divisions in total; Greece - 7 infantry divisions, 1 cd, 8 divisions in total; Bulgaria - 3 infantry divisions, 3 divisions in total; Africa - 5 infantry divisions, 1 CD, 1 TD, 7 divisions in total; Norway - 9 infantry divisions, 9 divisions in total; total 93 PD, 5 CD, 3 TD, 3 air. dec. divisions; a total of 104 divisions [in the center of the country on the western borders, in Norway, Africa, Greece and Italy]. [2]
                    Most likely, the main forces of the German army, consisting of 76 infantry, 11 tank, 8 motorized, 2 cavalry and 5 air, and in total up to 100 divisions will be deployed south of Demblin to strike in the direction of Kovel, Rovno, Kiev.
                    This blow, apparently, will be accompanied by a blow in the north from East Prussia to Vilno and Riga, as well as short, concentric strikes from Suwalki and Brest to Volkovysk, Baranovichi.
                    In the south - we should expect strikes [simultaneously with the German army - the transition to the offensive in the general direction of Zhmerinka - the Romanian army, supported by German divisions. The possibility of an auxiliary strike of the Germans from across the river. San in the direction of Lvov] a) in the direction of Zhmerinka - the Romanian army, supported by German divisions; b) in the direction of Munkach, Lviv; c) Sanok, Lviv.

                    .... The composition and tasks of the fronts deployed in the West (map 1: 1.000.000):
                    The Western Front (ZAPOVO) - four armies, consisting of 31 rifle, 8 tank, 4 motorized and 2 cavalry divisions, and a total of 45 divisions and 21 aviation regiments.
                    Objectives: - stubborn defense on the front of Druskeniki, Ostrolenka, firmly cover the Lida and Bialystok directions;
                    - with the transition of the armies of the Southwestern Front to the offensive, a blow from the left wing of the front in the directions of Warsaw, Sedlec, Radom, smash the Warsaw grouping and capture Warsaw (assist), in cooperation with the Southwestern Front, smash the Lublin-Radom grouping of the enemy, reach the river ... Vistula and mobile units to capture the Rad (and to ensure this operation from Warsaw and East Prussia).
                    The border of the front on the left - r. Pripyat, Pinsk, Wlodava, Demblin, Radom.
                    Front headquarters - Baranovichi.

                    Southwestern Front - eight armies, consisting of 74 rifle, 28 tank, 15 motorized and 5 cavalry divisions, and a total of 122 divisions and 91 aviation regiments, with the next tasks:
                    1. novel66
                      novel66 22 January 2021 08: 59
                      -6
                      now so lazy to rummage .... maybe a book? the author studied the issue on the documents ... everything and everyone there is clear
                  2. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 22 January 2021 12: 24
                    +1
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    but no! they perfectly knew the direction of the main attack, and in the Ukraine they were preparing a counter strike, all the mechanized corps, read it, were there.

                    Of the eight pre-war conditionally combat-ready mechanized corps in KOVO, there were only three.
                    1 MK: LVO
                    2 MK: OdVO
                    3 MK: PribVO
                    4 MK: KOVO
                    5 MK: ZabVO - transferred to KOVO.
                    6 MK: ZOVO
                    7 MK: MVO
                    8 MK: KOVO
                2. Bar1
                  Bar1 22 January 2021 09: 21
                  +10
                  Quote: svp67
                  No, you're wrong. Someone, but Zhukov knew very well and knew how to carry out flank strikes, which he demonstrated at the Khalkin Gol. His main mistake was that he, as the Chief of General Staff, assumed that the Germans would strike the main blow in Ukraine.


                  In general, Zhukov, having removed the leadership of the South-Western Front, himself led the largest tank battle Dubninsky and lost. And it was in Ukraine.
                  1. novel66
                    novel66 22 January 2021 12: 29
                    +3
                    especially impressed by the flank attacks near Sychevka
                  2. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 22 January 2021 12: 34
                    +4
                    Quote: Bar1
                    In general, Zhukov, having removed the leadership of the South-Western Front, himself led the largest tank battle Dubninsky and lost. And it was in Ukraine.

                    This battle was led by the command of the SWF. It was it that canceled Zhukov's order to strike the 1st TGR, then canceled the order to cancel and returned to the original plans (having lost time), while arranging for the 8th MK to "run in a circle".
              2. Zug
                Zug 23 January 2021 07: 38
                +2
                No, I didn't consider Blitzkriegs as examples, and there were plenty of conclusions about the tactics of warfare by the Germans. So to say, here they are - France, Norway, etc.
          2. antivirus
            antivirus 22 January 2021 10: 11
            -7
            a bunch of dough thrown into the wind.
            - many times - not the readiness of the Red Army, but the readiness of the milkmaid cowsheds to supply milk for harmfulness to the foundries. everything was spinning and now they do not see (supposedly no one) - everything starts from ore and then to blanks and only after 50-130 of those processes is embodied in the finished product.
            lagged behind in the development of industry and agriculture.
            "caught up" with Europe in WWII - due to the labor of adolescents and women. in WWI, this was not possible (see 3rd line) because of complete illiteracy - apoliticality. indifference of people. patriotism.

            And the main thing is the unifying and guiding force - VKPb.
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 22 January 2021 10: 21
          +1
          And how to achieve it, if you don't know the exact date, and you don't know until a few days, and the Germans pulled up the motorized divisions in June, the infantry, even the numerous, quite rightly, did not bother the Union, because it can only go 100-300 km deeper, while the USSR mobilizes, it is unpleasant, not fatal.

          And if we call for 2-3 million (they called for the fees) and begin to withdraw transport from industry, then these people and technology can be distracted from productive labor for such an indefinitely long time.
      2. strannik1985
        strannik1985 22 January 2021 08: 07
        +8
        In the memoirs of a Soviet scientist and philosopher

        In peacetime, the army is usually kept in reduced peacetime states, during a special period (from the beginning of mobilization to the beginning of a b / d) units and formations are replenished to the states of wartime, taken out (withdrawn) from the points of permanent deployment (where they are usually deployed by regiments and battalions ) to the future front line (usually at the state border). So, a number of preparations were made, for example, armies from the internal military units began to be transported to the western military units, but no mobilization (even hidden) was carried out, the covering armies sat in the PPD until the attack (at a distance from 0 to 40, individual units up to 60 km from the border ).
        1. Crowe
          Crowe 22 January 2021 08: 25
          +14
          There was a directive number 1, but it was too vague - either we need to prepare to repel a strike, or we should not succumb to provocations. But for some reason this vague did not prevent the command of the Navy to issue an order, thanks to which the attack of the Nazis did not come as a surprise to our sailors Each problem, as you know, has a last name, first name and patronymic, but each success also has them. In this case, Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov. He did what other commanders in our armed forces did not have the courage to do. from them, he not only ordered the forces of the fleet to be ready to meet the enemy, but also personally called the commanders of the fleets, so that they had no doubts that it was necessary to act this way, and nothing else. But the question is, could someone else on the spot NG Kuznetsova not to be fainthearted and to give the order to be ready to start repelling the enemy remains open. The role of personality in history cannot be belittled.
          1. novel66
            novel66 22 January 2021 08: 42
            +3
            but there was also the BN directive.
          2. strannik1985
            strannik1985 22 January 2021 09: 31
            +8
            There was a directive

            The estimated period for the complete transition of the district to wartime (with the formation of spare parts, communications, hospitals) is 30 days. This is subject to mobilization, in fact, you can send at least some directives, in the absence of people, horses, cars, tractors, the division will be combat-ready very conditionally.
            But somehow this vagueness did not prevent

            It was just that the naval facilities were not a priority target of the Luftwaffe, they worked on a leftover principle.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 22 January 2021 08: 31
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      Why until the last was holding on to the illusion of an alliance with Germany and ordered the troops
      "Do not succumb to provocations"
      ?
      Because the USSR was not ready and tried in every possible way to delay this time.


      Not for one day this "delay" of the war - the beginning of the war - did not delay: Hitler began exactly when he was prepared and saw fit.

      On the contrary, the failure to bring the troops of the USSR into combat readiness against the background of already combat-ready troops of Germany only provoked it to start as quickly as possible, until they came to their senses.

      An adversary can only be stopped by the threat of a response that is adequate in strength, and not by invoking and hoping for "agreements," conscience, logic and decency.

      The hope that without provocation the war ... will not start at all ridiculous: the world wars have completely different reasons and driving forces.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 22 January 2021 08: 39
        -2
        Quote: Olgovich
        An adversary can only be stopped by the threat of a response that is adequate in strength, and not by invoking and hoping for "agreements," conscience, logic and decency.

        Hitler was a mentally unhealthy person, and any little thing on the border could provoke him to attack the USSR. An example is Hitler's declaration of war on the United States after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. All of Hitler's entourage persuaded him not to do this, but Hitler did not obey the advice and declared war on the United States.
      2. svp67
        svp67 22 January 2021 08: 40
        +8
        Quote: Olgovich
        On the contrary, the failure to bring the troops of the USSR into combat readiness against the background of already combat-ready troops of Germany only provoked it to start as quickly as possible, until they came to their senses.

        The General Staff sent the Directive on bringing the troops into combat readiness "Full" on time, but then ... and then it would be worth figuring out why, having received this order in time, the commander of the Western District dragged on for so long with its transfer to the troops ... Why on the part of the aircraft of this district, contrary to the orders given earlier, the weapons were removed, why the reserves of fuel and lubricants were in the Caucasus ... The full impression was that there was a deliberate sabotage.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 22 January 2021 09: 11
          -5
          Quote: svp67
          General Staff Directive on bringing troops to combat readiness "Full" sent on time, but further ... and then it would be worth figuring out why having received this order on time, the commander of the Western District dragged on for so long with its transfer to the troops ..

          Sent to the troops only at 00.30 on June 22, Directive 1 cannot be considered sent "on time": there are three hours left before the war.
          1. svp67
            svp67 22 January 2021 09: 15
            +2
            Quote: Olgovich
            Sent to the troops only at 00.30 on June 22, Directive 1 cannot be considered sent "on time": there are three hours left before the war.

            Maybe if the system is worked out and its passage is not delayed. At the SWF and JF, she somehow managed to reach the troops.
            1. Gvardeetz77
              Gvardeetz77 22 January 2021 11: 25
              +5
              Quote: svp67
              Quote: Olgovich
              Sent to the troops only at 00.30 on June 22, Directive 1 cannot be considered sent "on time": there are three hours left before the war.

              Maybe if the system is worked out and its passage is not delayed. At the SWF and JF, she somehow managed to reach the troops.

              Do you think that in the 30s and 40s, 3 hours would be enough to bring troops to the BG "Full"? I dare to assure you that even now there may not be enough of them. After all, even if the headquarters of the districts received a signal, this does not mean that everything suddenly became ready for war. Until the last company (battery) received a signal and performed ALL the BG activities, which can take more than one hour, what kind of readiness can we talk about. Let me remind you that many communication lines were destroyed, i.e. messengers were sent to the unit, where maybe by planes, where cars, where with bunks, and where on foot, and their speed of movement, and the actions of saboteurs, and somewhere the elimination of decision-makers ... Well, I repeat, even having received a signal, having raised and equipped l / s, lining up in columns, is not yet ready for war, you need to get to the destination area, take positions, etc. Little 3 hours, critically little, a day in those conditions could somehow still be relevant.
              1. svp67
                svp67 22 January 2021 12: 14
                +5
                Quote: Gvardeetz77
                Little 3 hours, critically little, a day in those conditions could still somehow be relevant.

                Yes ... well, there is an interesting point. There was one more Directive dated June 18, 1941 ... But its text is never published anywhere. So that you would have time to do something in THREE hours, you can only say after learning what activities were carried out under the Directive of June 18 ...
                1. novel66
                  novel66 22 January 2021 12: 33
                  -1
                  the so-called directive without a number, many military leaders remember it, there is just about increasing combat readiness
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 22 January 2021 13: 11
                    0
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    there is just about increasing combat readiness

                    And just at that moment, many units left the PPD and went to the "camps" for "exercises" ...
                    1. novel66
                      novel66 22 January 2021 13: 15
                      0
                      weird, no?
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 22 January 2021 13: 17
                        0
                        Quote: novel xnumx
                        weird, no?

                        I cannot judge without knowing the text of this Directive.
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 23 January 2021 08: 02
                  -3
                  Quote: svp67
                  There was one more Directive dated June 18, 1941 ... But its text is never published anywhere.

                  A directive that does not exist in nature and does not have a text.
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 22 January 2021 17: 43
          0
          The overall impression was that there was a deliberate sabotage.

          Quite right. And why did the whole division end up not in summer camps, but in the Brest Fortress, every section of which was under the gun of the Germans. There were no gaps similar to the Belarusian direction either to the north or to the south.
      3. Valerikk
        Valerikk 22 January 2021 10: 09
        -6
        Quote: Olgovich
        failure to bring Soviet troops into combat readiness

        The army is always on alert, otherwise it is not an army.
        Quote: Olgovich
        The enemy can only be stopped by the threat of an adequate response in strength

        According to the memoirs of Guderian, Hitler said: "If I knew that the Russians really have such a number of tanks, which is given in your book, I probably would not have started this war."
        Claims against German intelligence.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 22 January 2021 12: 39
          +2
          Quote: Valerikk
          The army is always on alert, otherwise it is not an army.

          And what is the combat readiness of a cropped division with half the staff of l / s, without transport, traction and rear services? wink
          However, this is all lyrics. There are documents of the spring of 1941 - reports of the commanders of the mechanized corps - in which it is written in black and white that such and such divisions of their mechanized corps are not ready. Almost all MKs have a motorized division; mechanized corps of the 1941 formation often add one of the tank divisions to it.
          1. Valerikk
            Valerikk 22 January 2021 13: 54
            -3
            The armed forces are always on alert. At the same time, individual units and formations may be completely incapable of combat.
            1. strannik1985
              strannik1985 22 January 2021 14: 37
              +2
              The armed forces are always on alert.

              This is a little different, for example, by June 1941, 109 divisions of the 04/120 state, in them 5864 people l / s, 905 horses, 155 cars and if people were replenished with people during the BUS-1941, then with horses and cars - no ... Suppose a level b / g "Increased" or "Full" is announced in some SD 04/120 - with the onset of M +, it is necessary to withdraw the compound from the military camps to the concentration area, then move forward (on its own, by rail, in district cars) to front lines, but how to do this if there is nothing to take out guns, ammunition, food, and other property? At the same time, in principle, there are a lot of people, in 4 SD ZapOVO on June 01, state 04/120, 5000-6000 reservists were added, i.e. the total number in the region is 10-11 thousand, and they can fight with what they take away.
        2. svp67
          svp67 22 January 2021 13: 16
          0
          Quote: Valerikk
          The army is always on alert, otherwise it is not an army.

          Here are just combat readiness, combat readiness differences ... There is "Permanent", in it the army is constantly in peacetime, until the highest degrees were introduced and in this state the troops can carry out training, solve life issues, but it is difficult to fight it .. And there is "Full" when the army is mobilized, trained and ready to fight. But the transition between them requires time and each part has its own
          1. Valerikk
            Valerikk 22 January 2021 14: 00
            0
            I completely agree with you. At the same time, the task of the border armies was to ensure the conduct of mobilization and deployment.
    3. paul3390
      paul3390 22 January 2021 21: 02
      +1
      There is a significant discrepancy in your thesis .. For a war is not a question of provocations, if a decision on it has been made and the deployment has begun, the absence of conflicts on the border will not help. The opposite is also true - if the countries are not in the mood for a big war, then it will not even be fired. Khalkhin Gol is an example of this ...

      So who was Comrade Stalin so afraid of provoking? And what for? It looks like - certainly not Hitler and Germany .. And we have only one serious candidate left who could attack the USSR in alliance with the Third Reich .. Let's remember - on May 10, the second Nazi man, Hess, flew to Great Britain .. And who said that the Germans - did not agree with the British? Only the British themselves .. Who classified the documents on this case forever .. And Hess was caulked in kitsch for life, although he seemed to have never committed any war crimes ..

      And just Britain - they needed strong arguments in favor of ending the war with Germany and entering into an alliance with her .. Like - a crusade against Bolshevism .. And she - any conflicts on our border would be in the vein .. The truth did not grow together - but I think only because the Soviet Union did not surrender in a month as expected, but continued to fight hard .. And in the end - won ..
    4. yuriy55
      yuriy55 23 January 2021 08: 02
      -1
      Quote: svp67
      Because the USSR was not ready and tried in every possible way to delay this time.

      I don't know what you mean by the words about readiness, but there is such data:


      https://rg.ru/2016/06/16/rodina-sssr-germaniya.html
      Quote: svp67
      The USSR simply did not have enough time to deploy troops.

      Here you need to clarify:
      The USSR simply did not have enough time to deploy troops on the border of the territories that had become its part before the war. It was a gate without a lock.
      From the point of view of analysts (although, we have already been told about the "big", which is seen at a distance), the USSR had every opportunity to prevent the catastrophe of the outbreak of war and the blame for this lies with the country's leadership. Only connivance and "indifference" gave Hitler carte blanche to start hostilities. What can I say when, before the start of the war, vacations for the command personnel were not canceled (you should know this).
      In addition, the first strikes of aviation and artillery of the German troops destroyed a huge amount of military equipment, destroyed communications and supplies. Moreover, before the war, the equipment was not refueled, without ammunition (I remember that later, at the end of the exercises, the equipment was put into the boxes only after full refueling).
      In June 1941, the politician Stalin defeated the strategist Stalin, as I see it. There is nothing else to explain such flaws, how there is nothing to explain today's "love and desire" to please GB with gold injections and subsidizing of the economy of the islands with funds brought there by Russian oligarchs.
  3. apro
    apro 22 January 2021 05: 01
    +4
    Again questions of faith based on epilogues.
    Did the IVStvlin know that war was inevitable? Yes, he knew. Did he know the opponents, but there were two of them, Germany and Britain, and both had grounds for war.
    The readiness for war and the war itself are somewhat different things. Germany has already mobilized an army. It has already deployed an army. and its readiness for war was higher than that of the other sides.
    1. yuriy55
      yuriy55 23 January 2021 08: 11
      0
      Quote: apro
      Yes, I knew. Did I know the opponents. Yes, there were two. Germany and Britain. And both had reasons for war.

      Let's say there were two opponents, but they were Germany in the west and Japan in the east. Rather, Britain was:
      Great Britain participated in World War II from the very beginning of September 1, 1939 (September 3, 1939, Great Britain declared war on Germany) until its end (September 2, 1945).

      On September 1, 1939, Germany invaded Poland (see Polish Campaign). On the same day, the government of N. Chamberlain sent Germany a note of protest, on September 3 it was followed by an ultimatum, then a declaration of war on Germany. A British expeditionary force was sent to France.

      But the participation of both GB, France and the United States in the war was, to put it mildly, "strange":
      The German commander A. Jodl later claimed:
      “If we were not defeated back in 1939, it was only because about 110 French and British divisions that stood in the West during our war with Poland against 25 German divisions, absolutely inactive».
      1. apro
        apro 23 January 2021 08: 44
        0
        The Britons were enemies of the USSR from its very formation. There were plans to fight the USSR when Hitler was not in the project.
        Hess's flight raised a question, the answers to which were extremely disturbing.
  4. Far B
    Far B 22 January 2021 05: 01
    +21
    Why Stalin did not believe in the attack of the Third Reich to the last
    What is this nonsense ??? I didn't just believe - I knew that the war could not be avoided, otherwise why all these numerous staff exercises? Another thing is that Stalin did not know about the date of the attack, but this is not surprising, given how many different versions he was offered.
    The content of the article follows from the erroneous message in the title. The result - the article is empty and graceless. Minus.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 22 January 2021 06: 16
      +7
      Quote: Far In
      Why Stalin did not believe in the attack of the Third Reich to the last
      What is this nonsense ??? I didn't just believe - I knew that the war could not be avoided, otherwise why all these numerous staff exercises? ........

      If you look at the entire post-revolutionary development of the USSR, how what happened ---- they knew that there would be war, industrialization, there were films, songs, poems about defending the Motherland.
      The armies of the USSR tried to instill combat experience ---- Spain, China ... to find and correct the existing shortcomings.
      And what about the plans for evacuation, when everything was thought out, both for the enterprises and the personnel for them, what is also from disbelief?
      1. yuriy55
        yuriy55 23 January 2021 08: 30
        +1
        Quote: Reptiloid
        The armies of the USSR tried to instill combat experience ---- Spain, China ... to find and correct the existing shortcomings.

        And there were also Mongolia (the Khalkin-Gol river) and Finland, when:
        The outbreak of hostilities led to the fact that on December 14, 1939, the USSR as the aggressor was expelled from the League of Nations
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 23 January 2021 08: 32
          0
          Mongolia ----- yes, but Finland ... and after all, shortly before the Second World War ... such facts
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 22 January 2021 06: 37
      +2
      I liked the idea itself: a full and fertile article. May be a good criterion.
    3. yuriy55
      yuriy55 23 January 2021 08: 21
      -1
      Quote: Dalny V
      otherwise why all these numerous staff exercises?

      Tell, what is the difference between KSHU and tactical? It was smooth on paper (and even then, not always), but they forgot about the ravines. He knew, foresaw ... However, in an instant, the formations were deprived of control and communication with the higher command. And some did not even receive an order to put the units on high alert.
      Quote: Dalny V
      Another thing is that Stalin did not know about the date of the attack, but this is not surprising, given how many different versions he was offered.

      As a strategist, Stalin was simply obliged to foresee all the options. He didn't. He behaved like a politician, relying on his own infallibility. Although, who at that time would have dared to tell Joseph Vissarionovich about his mistakes and blunders? Bringing the troops (in advance, June 20-21) to a state of full combat readiness would have avoided the losses that the Red Army suffered on June 22 and later.
  5. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 22 January 2021 05: 02
    +10
    He did what Nicholas II could not - made an alliance with Berlin (this could save the Russian Empire, give it a chance to revolutionize "from above").
    This alone shows the penny value of this article! What the hell is "union" ?!
  6. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 22 January 2021 05: 18
    +8
    On June 22, 1941, the Wehrmacht launched an offensive. At the beginning of 1941, the picture was different.
    ..... Joseph Vissarionovich had a better opinion of the Fuhrer, he believed that he would not go on an adventure. Germany, its armed forces and economy were not ready for a war with the USSR.

    Complete garbage. Just the day before, he quoted the memoirs of the commander of the ADD Golovanov, his conversation with Stalin at the beginning of 41, where Stalin directly indicated that the war would be with Germany and gave instructions to first study strategically important German facilities for bombing them.
    And it was ours who were not ready for war, it is enough to study the plans of the third five-year plan, calculated until the end of the 42nd year, which assumed that the country was fully prepared for war, such as the construction of backup enterprises in the depths of the country aimed at military orders, etc. .d.
    1. sen
      sen 22 January 2021 05: 34
      +7
      There is a documentary film "Who missed the start of the war."
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQtSlYOT584
      The film is based on declassified archival documents and testimonies from participants in the events. Actually, they were only shown in this film. They were accompanied by only small comments from several historians ..
      So, it turned out: neither Sorge, nor anyone else knew the exact date of the start of the war, but a few days before its start, on their own initiative, Stalin and Beria conducted aerial reconnaissance, and since they were sure that the war would begin from day to day ... Historians found one of the pilots who carried out this reconnaissance. According to him - there was no doubt - the war was about to begin. This confidence was confirmed by the discovered numerous German military groupings concentrated on the border, which he reflected in his reports, which were delivered directly to Moscow to Stalin.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 22 January 2021 05: 44
        +3
        Quote: sen
        which he reflected in his reports, which were delivered directly to Moscow to Stalin.

        But Pavlov to the last assured Stalin that there was no concentration of Germans on the border.
        1. Cartalon
          Cartalon 22 January 2021 06: 35
          +2
          In general, the GRU was headed by Golikov, so what does Pavlov have to do with it.
          And who reported to whom, what data was, was published long ago, and even on this site normal articles were posted.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 22 January 2021 06: 41
            +4
            Despite the fact that the commander of the Belarusian Special Military District had his own intelligence, and it was believed that there, on the spot, he knew better. For which he was shot a month after the start of the war.
            1. Cartalon
              Cartalon 22 January 2021 07: 33
              -1
              Its own intelligence, personal agent network that does not send data to Moscow.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 22 January 2021 07: 36
                +1
                Quote: Cartalon
                Its own intelligence, personal agent network that does not send data to Moscow.

                And what, Stalin should not trust Pavlov, who is sitting on the border, but trust, for example, Sorge, who is sitting in Japan?
                1. Cartalon
                  Cartalon 22 January 2021 07: 46
                  +3
                  He must trust or not trust Golikov and the one who was engaged in intelligence in the NKVD.
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 22 January 2021 07: 59
                    -1
                    Quote: Cartalon
                    He must trust or not trust Golikov and the one who was engaged in intelligence in the NKVD.

                    And who to believe if the information contradicts each other?
                    1. Cartalon
                      Cartalon 22 January 2021 08: 52
                      +1
                      What information contradicted each other, it was known about the transfer of German troops to the border, but the group of Germans was not opened, mobile units were not found at all.
                      The question is not even that they did not expect an attack, but that they did not expect a decisive attack in depth from the first day.
                      1. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 22 January 2021 08: 56
                        +1
                        Quote: Cartalon
                        the grouping of Germans was not opened, mobile units were not found at all.

                        So Pavlov had to find them and not sit in theaters in Minsk. Both of them were removed from their posts immediately after the start of the war, only Pavlov was shot, and Golikov was sent to England for negotiations.
                      2. Cartalon
                        Cartalon 22 January 2021 09: 14
                        -1
                        This is how Pavlov had to find them, please tell me?
                        Especially if you remember that in its strip only 2tg was deployed, other people were engaged in agent intelligence, and air reconnaissance was only flying around the border.
                        The NKVD and Pavlov in general were the commander of the district, and the head of the intelligence department was in charge of the perebezchiks.
                      3. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 22 January 2021 09: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: Cartalon
                        The NKVD and Pavlov in general were the commander of the district,

                        Oh, well, you. Tired of pouring from empty to empty.
                        - No, Comrade Stalin, that's not true! I have just returned from defensive lines. There is no concentration of German troops on the border, and my intelligence is working well. I'll check it again, but I think it's just a provocation. Okay, Comrade Stalin ... What about Golovanov? Clear. [51] He hung up.

                        - The master is out of sorts. Some bastard is trying to prove to him that the Germans are concentrating troops on our border.

                        https://itexts.net/avtor-aleksandr-evgenevich-golovanov/72671-dalnyaya-bombardirovochnaya-vospominaniya-glavnogo-marshala-aviacii-1941-1945-aleksandr-golovanov/read/page-4.html
                        That's it, I won't answer anymore.
                      4. Cartalon
                        Cartalon 22 January 2021 09: 25
                        -3
                        Ahh, someone's memoirs were written 20 years later, Comrade Stalin received information and any information from three lines, the People's Commissariat, the Party and the NKVD.
                        Instead of calling someone and talking.
                        All the best.
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 22 January 2021 17: 50
      +1
      so what has Pavlov got to do with it.

      Everything is clear, I loved the area entrusted to him. Nowhere else did the Germans go so far in June. Again, why did the troops end up in the Brest Fortress, and not in the field? It only happened in this district.
  • Bar1
    Bar1 22 January 2021 10: 13
    -1
    Quote: sen
    There is a documentary film "Who missed the start of the war."

    Do not watch NTV, this is the most deceitful channel and the films that he makes are the most disgusting.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 22 January 2021 05: 41
    +2
    What we are talking about --- their own conclusions are passed off as reality, this is all the more wrong if we are talking about significant personalities. Like, Peter l thought ... Joseph Vissarionich had a better opinion ...
    Stalin clearly saw how the strengthening of Germany was taking place, who was behind it, who was pushing Germany to war ...
    I tried to push aside what was being prepared.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 22 January 2021 06: 19
      +1
      Quote: Reptiloid
      -their own conclusions are passed off as reality,

      Yes, everything is taken from the ceiling. Goering at the Nyurberg trial stated that Germany knew quite well about the number of the Red Army and the number of weapons, which means that they were ready and believed in success. We just didn't take into account what we are capable of. In the head of the Germans, with their pedantry, the ability to self-sacrifice did not fit.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 22 January 2021 06: 31
        +1
        Somehow they believed in success so that the Germans did not prepare for the winter Russian frosts, were not at all ready?
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 22 January 2021 06: 34
          +2
          Quote: Reptiloid
          Somehow they believed in success so that the Germans did not prepare for the winter Russian frosts, were not at all ready?

          So they, according to Barbarossa's plan, had to end the war even before winter.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 22 January 2021 06: 39
            +4
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            .... So, according to Barbarossa's plan, even before the winter, they had to end the war.
            Well, yes, on the basis of experience with other countries, they meticulously calculated that such rates could be achieved with the USSR.
          2. Shiden
            Shiden 22 January 2021 11: 57
            +1
            In general, with the beginning of the war, the Germans had already begun to improvise. Those divisions that remained on the protection of the Balkans were very much needed in the south.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 22 January 2021 12: 46
          +2
          Quote: Reptiloid
          Somehow they believed in success so that the Germans did not prepare for the winter Russian frosts, were not at all ready?

          The outcome of the war with the USSR was to be decided in a border battle, in which the Germans hoped to destroy almost the entire personnel of the Red Army in the Western theater of operations. Further - "Drang nach Osten" with periodic clashes with scattered reserves from the composition of the newly mobilized internal districts. In short, they planned to finish everything in the fall of 1941.
          And if the war in Russia dragged on until the winter frosts, then the Reich lost. smile
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 22 January 2021 13: 46
            -1
            hi I once read about Hitler's words that if he knew that the Russians had more than one line of defense, he would not have attacked ..... I will try to remember or find today.
            But somehow, by itself, I remembered the words about another winter. Namely, the Urengoy Kohl about German suffering and often repeated words, both of our liberda and foreign ones, about, they say, that it is these sufferings as a result of aggression that equalize the aggressor with the defending people defending their relatives, their land. And this lie does not stop.
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 22 January 2021 09: 06
      +1
      ... I tried to push aside the preparing

      How could he have influenced Hitler's plans and "push back" something?
  • Kapral Alphych
    Kapral Alphych 22 January 2021 06: 01
    +2
    I also read some recollections of an officer who was an adjutant (or just at the headquarters) at Pavlov, the commander of the Belarusian Special District. In general, just before the start of the war, the Supreme Commander called Pavlov, and began to elicit information from him about the provocations of the Nazis and similar information. Pavlov denied everything. After the end of the conversation, Pavlov hung up the phone and said with annoyance, they say, again the Supreme is an evil fly, someone told him that on the border of provocation ... The military did not have unity, and many quite deliberately misinformed the IVS.
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 22 January 2021 06: 39
      +1
      Provocations are generally the business of border guards, and this is the NKVD, where does Pavlov have to do with it?
  • yuriy55
    yuriy55 23 January 2021 08: 32
    0
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    such as withconstruction of backup enterprises in the interior of the country, aimed at military orders, etc.

    good important note!
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 22 January 2021 05: 32
    0
    Yes, Hess could have told a lot when he was released from an English prison, the poor fellow were strangled by the British in the style of ala-Berezovsky. The British really claim that he hanged himself, but it’s hard to believe ... He spent so many years in jail and at the exit to hang himself. .. It is illogical.
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 22 January 2021 08: 08
      +3
      So many years to sit in a jail and hang on the way out ...
      ... And before leaving, declare that the world will know the whole truth about WWII ... After such a statement, he hanged himself, apparently out of regret that he said .. laughing And the most interesting thing is that he hanged himself when the British provided his protection. "Coincidence? I don't think so." (C)
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 22 January 2021 12: 13
        +2
        Quote: parusnik
        "A coincidence? I don't think so." (C)

        Yes, very interesting! After all, Hess, at that time, could not even shave himself. And he could hang himself ???
        In the midst of perestroika, Gorbachev says: "We can let go of Hess. We don't mind." On the same day, Hess calls his son and says: "Now the British will kill me."
        1. parusnik
          parusnik 22 January 2021 13: 09
          +2
          If memory does not change yet on the wire of some laughing
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 22 January 2021 14: 03
            +2
            Quote: parusnik
            If memory does not change yet on the wire of some laughing
            hi does not change! Lamp cord, tied to the window!
            What's next? Only right now I thought ---- but it is not known whether he died from hanging? After all, when they took him off, they untied the cord, he was alive! And they took me to the hospital and did a massage, but so diligently that they broke two ribs! Or first they broke, and then they drove.? Maybe something else bully bully did what exactly am am did not survive?
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 22 January 2021 05: 32
    +16
    True, but terribly primitive presented. A kind of Christmas splint for small children:
    "As a rascal, Adolf Aloizovich succeeded at first to deceive the ingenuous Joseph Vissarionovich."
    The topic in the press and different degrees of scientific literature has been covered more than once or twice. Not first-graders go to VO. You can't think so badly of your readers.
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 22 January 2021 08: 05
      +14
      Unfortunately, there are more and more such articles, the authors (not all of them, of course, there are a couple of them) have turned their backs on working on the material for their articles, which is very frustrating. "Christmas splint" - very similar! and accurate comparison!
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 22 January 2021 12: 32
        +7
        Here you can ponder why
        Quote: Crowe
        Unfortunately, there are more and more such articles, the authors (not all of them, of course, there are a couple of them) have turned their backs on working on the material for their articles, which is very frustrating. "Christmas splint" - very similar! and accurate comparison!
        the articles of this Author are very different. My favorite is from 2013 about Stalin's Falcons in China. Which involves the unification of a group of different authors. There is a new young author in the community who decided to write about it, I guess?
  • smaug78
    smaug78 22 January 2021 05: 42
    +5
    Stalin believed in an attack by the Third Reich. I just thought what would happen in different conditions. Again Samsonova does not know history ...
  • kgf
    kgf 22 January 2021 05: 54
    -18%
    The reason is simple - Stalin was an absolute fool.
    Proof - only such could write
    text "questions of linguistics". Foolishness in every word of this
    wretched books.
    1. pmkemcity
      pmkemcity 22 January 2021 08: 56
      +5
      Quote: kgf
      The reason is simple - Stalin was an absolute fool.
      Proof - only such could write
      text "questions of linguistics". Foolishness in every word of this
      wretched books.

      I found myself an equal! Did you read the article yourself? Only fools argue about who is smarter.
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 22 January 2021 10: 47
      +1
      Quote: kgf
      Proof - only such could write
      text "questions of linguistics". Foolishness in every word of this
      wretched books.


      articles, probably, but what is there in this article that you do not like?
      Stalin explains that "class" language is a harmful fiction, and national language is an objective reality. Then they wanted to get rid of national languages.
  • Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 22 January 2021 06: 24
    0
    Stalin did not anticipate that Hitler would commit such a foolishness as an attack on the USSR, with unconquered Britain behind him. Stalin also did not want to provoke Hitler to start a war with the USSR, and therefore issued an order not to succumb to provocations and not to shoot down German reconnaissance planes so that Hitler would see that the USSR was not accumulating troops near the border with Germany and was not going to attack Germany. The USSR was not ready for a war with Germany, although the army increased many times over, for example, in 1932 the number of the Red Army was 600 thousand people, and by June 22, 1941 it reached 5 million people, but it was still inferior to the Wehrmacht both numerically and especially , qualitatively. It was just as poorly equipped with weapons, modern types of artillery, tanks, aviation and small arms have just begun to deploy their serial production, and the industrialization of the country has not been fully completed. At least another year of grace was required.
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 22 January 2021 06: 49
      +1
      If the war began at least a year later, then the excellent T-50 would already be mass-produced, which before the war was supposed to be the main tank of the Red Army, the modernized T-34 with a turret for 3 people and a torsion bar suspension would be mass-produced, the army would have completely re-equipped SVT , would be saturated with anti-aircraft weapons - in the DShK battalions, in the regiments of the 25 mm 72-K assault rifles, in the divisions of the 37 mm 61-K assault rifles. As you know, it was with anti-aircraft weapons in the Red Army that the situation was worst, their provision in the troops was only about 5% of the required figures for the state. In addition, the army would have been fed up with trucks and tractors in a year, with which in June 1941 the Red Army was also very, very bad.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 22 January 2021 13: 05
        +2
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        If the war began at least a year later, then the excellent T-50 would already be mass-produced, which before the war was supposed to be the main tank of the Red Army.

        A double-edged sword: instead of a 26-ton tank with a divisional unit, the Red Army would have received a 15-ton tank with a forty-five. And with worse armor protection - because the cemented armor of the T-50 would have to be replaced with the usual one (it is extremely difficult to repair the cemented armor parts "in the field", even the Germans abandoned it).
        As a result, the T-50 would have repeated the three-ruble path - the USSR would have had to change the main tank at the height of the war.
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        would mass-produce modernized T-34 with a turret for 3 people and torsion bar suspension

        Unlikely. Most likely, the situation with the T-34 mod. 1940: disruption of production plans for the first year, 90% of the produced tanks went into warranty repair.
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        the army would have completely re-equipped SVT

        Equipment in the hands of an untrained Red Army soldier is a pile of iron.
        In parts of 97 SD rifles manufactured in 1940. , which were on hand for no more than 4 months, up to 29% are reduced to a state of rust in the barrel, machine guns "DP" manufactured in 1939 to 14% also have a deterioration of the barrel channels.

        To great shame, and chagrin, cadet regiment schools have lesser knowledge of small arms than the knowledge of the Red Army, and yet despite this they are issued by junior commanders.
        There is no need to talk about the rules, cleaning weapons, and their inspection by younger commanders.

        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        would be saturated with anti-aircraft weapons - in the battalions of the DShK, in the regiments of the 25-mm machine guns 72-K, in the divisions 37-mm machine guns 61-K.

        Where will we get the trucks from? And DShK? Especially considering the volume of their production in real life - in wartime, at a mobilized plant?
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        In addition, the army would have been fed up with trucks and tractors in a year, with which in June 1941 the Red Army was also very, very bad.

        All equipment will be devoured by the mechanized corps. The crumbs will reach the infantry.
        The main ambush is that there are no new tractors, and the old ones do not suit either the GABTU or the GAU.
        For example, what the army team said at a meeting regarding the operation of STZ-5, held at STZ in April 1941:
        ... take this tractor and try to work with a cannon: it doesn’t pull the required weight of the cannon, the power of a military vehicle is small ... a rough ride, barbaric conditions for the driver in the cabin completely devalue this tractor. And if this car is left as a transport vehicle and as a means of transporting goods, then it also does not fit in terms of carrying capacity ... The army needs three-ton vehicles, and if it is one and a half ton, then the army will not suit either ... All your transport vehicles have a unique number of shortcomings ... Maximum speed this machine is 8 km / h, but usually it does 6 km / h ... the car does not pull itself at 4th speed ... if I took a combat position, and then I need to change the position immediately, and I need 40 minutes to start the tractor ...

        New tractor, yeah ...
        1. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 23 January 2021 00: 54
          -2
          Quote: Alexey RA
          A double-edged sword: instead of a 26-ton tank with a divisional unit, the Red Army would have received a 15-ton tank with a forty-five. And with worse armor protection - because the cemented armor of the T-50 would have to be replaced with the usual one (it is extremely difficult to repair the cemented armor parts "in the field", even the Germans abandoned it).
          As a result, the T-50 would have repeated the three-ruble path - the USSR would have had to change the main tank at the height of the war.

          A 45-horsepower engine could easily pull 50-mm armor, the T-45 with 18-mm would weigh, say, 34 tons, this would not have a critical effect on mobility. The T-45 fought the entire war with 76 mm armor. Also, I believe, it was possible to install a 34 mm F-57 or a 4 mm ZIS-34 cannon, as was done with the T-85, on which an 34 mm cannon was installed. Let me remind you that the T-50 would also continue to be produced. The T-34 would not replace the T-15, but a supplement to it. But on the other hand, a 2-ton tank with a half B-34 would cost much less than the T-34, and it could be produced much more than the T-1941. In 1943-60, out of despair, the T-70 and T-50 were produced, which were much, much worse than the T-60 in terms of combat qualities. As a replacement for these T-70s and T-50s, the excellent T-XNUMX would be a good option.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Unlikely. Most likely, the situation with the T-34 mod. 1940: disruption of production plans for the first year, 90% of the produced tanks went into warranty repair.

          I don’t think so. The T-34M was made on the basis of the T-34, taking into account its operation in the troops, so I think there would not have been such a general disruption of the production plan.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          And DShK? Especially considering the volume of their production in real life - in wartime, at a mobilized plant?

          By the beginning of the war, about 2 thousand DShK were produced, just crumbs. If a year before the summer of 1942 the same number were released, this is already good. DShK entered service in February 1939, serial production began in 1940, that is, it can be assumed that 2000 pieces were produced in a year. The 25-mm guns did not enter the troops at all before the start of the war, they began to enter the troops only after the war in the summer of 1941, in just 1941 they produced 328 pieces of these guns. The situation was a little better with 37-mm machine guns, by the beginning of the war, about 1400 pieces were delivered to the troops, in the first half of 1941, 820 pieces of these guns were made, that is, it can be assumed that in the year before the summer of 1942, 1700 pieces of these machines that are extremely necessary for the front. So if the war began a year later, then the troops would have additionally 2000 DShK, 1700 37-mm machine guns and several hundred 25-mm machine guns - that's something.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          All equipment will be devoured by the mechanized corps. The crumbs will reach the infantry.
          The main ambush is that there are no new tractors, and the old ones do not suit either the GABTU or the GAU.

          For the year, the troops would have received an additional tens of thousands of trucks and tractors. Even lorries and not very good tractors are still better than nothing at all.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 23 January 2021 13: 00
            0
            Quote: Kot_Kuzya
            A 45-horsepower engine could easily pull 50-mm armor, the T-45 with 18-mm would weigh, say, 34 tons, this would not have a critical effect on mobility. The T-45 fought the entire war with XNUMX mm armor.

            He fought the entire war for two reasons. The first is the impossibility of reducing output to switch to a new model. The front demanded tanks, and the production of a new tank, the same T-43, is at least six months of production reduction + inevitable problems with the first series. The second is the ability to mount an 85-mm gun without major design changes.
            Quote: Kot_Kuzya
            Also, I believe, it was possible to install a 76 mm F-34 or a 57 mm ZIS-4 cannon, as was done with the T-34, on which an 85 mm cannon was installed.

            In real life, they wanted to put 50-mm "low ballistics" in the T-57. That is - "three-kurtz" in full growth. The possibility of installing ZIS-4 and F-34 will leave WoT. smile The main problem there is the size of the breech and the rollback. Plus the accompanying problems - EMNIP, on the A-34 / T-34 (the tower of which was originally considered to be 45-mm), after the installation of 76-mm observation devices in the tower were above the breech.
            Quote: Kot_Kuzya
            Let me remind you that the T-34 would also continue to be produced. The T-50 would not replace the T-34, but a supplement to it. But on the other hand, a 15-ton tank with a half B-2 would cost much less than the T-34, and it could be produced much more than the T-34.

            It’s not all about price, but about production capabilities. The T-50 has a half of the V-2, but the set of fuel equipment is no less complicated there. Let me remind you. that before the war, the B-2 produced only 10% more than the T-34 - despite all the requirements of the GABTU to provide at least one spare diesel for each released tank.
            Quote: Kot_Kuzya
            By the beginning of the war, about 2 thousand DShK were produced, just crumbs. If a year before the summer of 1942 the same number were released, this is already good. DShK entered service in February 1939, serial production began in 1940, that is, it can be assumed that 2000 pieces were produced in a year.

            The fleet alone will devour half of the release of the DShK and will not frown - it only has 2 DShKs on the TKA and MO. Plus minesweepers. smile
            Production of DShK for the war - 9 units. This is a drop in the ocean.
            Moreover, the USSR has a massive 12,7-mm machine gun, which was produced in the amount of 150 pieces over the same period. Moreover, for 000 months of the first year of production (9), its output amounted to 1941/2 of the total production of DShK throughout the war.
            1. bk0010
              bk0010 23 January 2021 23: 10
              0
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Moreover, the USSR has a massive 12,7-mm machine gun, which was produced in the amount of 150 pieces over the same period.
              Who is this, excuse me (from non-aviation ones, which are not suitable for the infantry)?
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Moreover, for 9 months of the first year of production (1941), its output amounted to 2/3 of the total production of DShK for the entire war.
              They wrote that DShK's price is comparable to a forty-five, this is a clear overkill. Maybe that's why they didn't release much?
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 22 January 2021 12: 50
      +1
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      Stalin did not anticipate that Hitler would commit such a foolishness as an attack on the USSR, with unconquered Britain behind him.

      ICHH, intelligence actively assured him of this. If on the question of "attack or not attack" intelligence constantly gave conflicting information, then on the question of "war on two fronts" the answer was always the same: until the final solution of the "British question" the Germans would not attack the USSR.
      Plus, intelligence constantly reported that before the attack on the USSR, "diplomatic games" would begin on the German side with the presentation of demands and claims. And only after that will the blow follow.
  • Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 22 January 2021 06: 42
    +3
    Personally, my opinion. The IVS knew that Hitler would attack. And I was preparing for this. But no one expected that the Germans would be a well-honed combat vehicle after being tested in Europe, that they were so skilled at fighting that they destroyed larger forces. Therefore, later, in fact, I had to admit that they were not ready, they attacked unexpectedly. Yes, so unexpectedly that the Fleet managed to switch to readiness number 1 by the morning .... So the bike is playing that they missed it and did not know, and so on. Blah-blah-blah.
    Faced a more experienced opponent, for which they were punished. And when they learned to fight by 43rd, when they began to think how to fight, when they more or less learned to coordinate actions between the branches of the armed forces, when they began to replay tactically, then they drove back. It's like two boxers in the ring. The smaller one, due to the speed and pressure, kneads at the beginning of the larger and stronger one, and the main thing is not to fall in the first round. Then, as the opponent exhales, he adjusts to his actions, studies him, and then slowly begins to respond. As a result, the initiative goes to the big one and he methodically (Stalin's blows of 44-45) finishes the small one. So the Germans expected that by the end of 41 the colossus would not stand. But he resisted ...
    1. pmkemcity
      pmkemcity 22 January 2021 08: 59
      +4
      Quote: Rurikovich
      It's like two boxers in the ring. The smaller one, due to the speed and pressure, kneads at the beginning of the larger and stronger one, and the main thing is not to fall in the first round. Then, as the opponent exhales, he adjusts to his actions, studies him, and then slowly begins to respond

      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 22 January 2021 13: 00
        0
        Perfectly good !!! good
        This cartoon is from the Gorbachev era, closer to our time than the time in which Chukovsky lived. In the language of children, he spoke about strong and insidious enemies --- Crocodile, Cockroach, Barmaley, Spider. Intruded into a happy world. For some reason it was in children's Socialist fairy tales. The creation of a new socialist literature for children is a separate topic.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 22 January 2021 16: 31
          +1
          Dima, for some reason I like cartoons of the 30-40s. Already an adult, and willingly watch cartoons until the mid-fifties.
          And cartoons from the 70s are already selective. Why so and not otherwise, I don't know, that's all
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 22 January 2021 18: 36
            +1
            Quote: vladcub
            Dima, for some reason I like cartoons of the 30-40s. Already an adult, and willingly watch cartoons until the mid-fifties.
            And cartoons from the 70s are already selective. Why so and not otherwise, I don't know, that's all

            I just know why you have it! I have already written about those times, cartoons, books and films and Soviet science fiction. The time you like the cartoons is the most wonderful time !!!!!!!!!! When the whole country was united! Won, trampled on the fascist scum! The whole country respected and loved Stalin and Lenin! Everyone dreamed of communism in the USSR! The whole world was treated with respect! But when betrayal began, they began to slander Stalin, then some unsightly touches began to appear in the work. If you are interested, then I will write below about the foresight of the writer Kochetov, and about other disturbing works, and about science fiction. I already wrote this more than once, maybe someone is not interested in repetitions.
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 22 January 2021 19: 05
              0
              What I agree on 100℅ "" The whole country was the only one ", but about cartoons I do not agree. Which side:" Kochetov's foresight. "Rather, it is a matter of the skill of directors and artists.
              Then the cartoons were as if they were alive, to draw one short cartoon, the hellish work of an artist was required. And 70 cartoons no longer have such a thorough drawing.
              For the sake of truth. And then there were successful cartoons: "Well, wait a minute" - a masterpiece. "Leopold the Cat", "Kid and Carlson", but agree that the drawing of "Carlson" is inferior to ANY cartoon of the pre-war and post-war period
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 22 January 2021 19: 36
                -1
                What does Kochetov have to do with it? Foreseeing the fate of the USSR and the reasons. This betrayal at the top influenced the most different aspects of life.
                ..... already the decay was going on from the inside, but the inhabitants still haunted it,
                and they believed in their strength, and sent help to the brothers ...
              2. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 22 January 2021 21: 15
                +2
                I apologize for interfering with the discussion, but the classic style of cartoons (very expensive to perform), which Disney had in 1940-50, and we, too, then began to change in favor of schematism. At the same time, the titles for films, even for feature films, also changed. Puppet cartoons are cheaper, they began to be made in large quantities by the beginning of the 60s, but even "Wait a minute" of the late 60s, made in a classical manner, cannot be compared with the classics of the 50s. Once I saw the classic Disney film "Old Pond" - generally a masterpiece, the facial expressions of all the characters are clearly conveyed. By the way, one film about Leopold the cat was made quite carelessly (where about "wild animal"), others - quite well.
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 22 January 2021 22: 21
                  +1
                  wink smile laughing why apologize? We are all interested in the meantime, regardless of age. I still insist on my own. After all, this very decomposition of the nomenclature, although it was taking place on an increasing scale, but like an iceberg, did not appear all at once, these processes were hidden from the population. Likewise, decomposition, or, conversely, warnings, they were not constantly broadcast, but came out on the surface here and there. Also, cartoons ---- not in one day they all changed to become schematic, sarcastic like the Hare, who loved to give advice ... After all, this 74-year-old cartoon is just about the destruction of the USSR. I have not read this anywhere, but I myself have decided so recently. But his contemporaries, my relatives, did not understand this. Someone did not like the sarcasm and the drawing, someone thought it was cool ... I think there were many such cases ---- caring people tried to warn them, shouted in their works ....... but they were not heard by those to whom they addressed.
                  1. vladcub
                    vladcub 23 January 2021 08: 40
                    +2
                    "Not indifferent people tried to warn" in which I agree so it is that the majority WANTED THINKING BAD LESS THAN EVERYTHING. And the warnings that there would be trouble were annoying. However, this has been the case since antiquity. An illustrative example: Cassandra: "I am afraid of the Danes who bring gifts" and as a result Three ambas, but listen to the Trojans' predictions of Cassandra
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 23 January 2021 09: 02
                      0
                      hi hi I think that no one could even imagine the scale of the future disaster. I even doubt that these scales were represented by those people of art who conceived and shot those cartoons, or movies, at least about the city Z, or some fantastic ones. Rather, they had not specifics, but a feeling that changes were impending. Or there are still unclear changes taking place. ((It is interesting that now I am listening about Solzhenitsyn and about these words, his appearance in literature as a reaction to changes in society, this is also another element --- "a mirror of Soviet decay" ...
                  2. Aviator_
                    Aviator_ 23 January 2021 09: 50
                    +1
                    He apologized because he got into someone else's conversation. Changes in the style of artistic expression of thought is a normal phenomenon, another thing that sometimes turns out badly. The unity of form and content is needed. So to speak - what kind of table and chair (medical saying). People of art usually serve a paying customer and nothing more, rarely when there are really "engineers of human souls" in this environment.
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 23 January 2021 10: 23
                      0
                      hi that's exactly what I was thinking about, Sergei, ----- for whom did they shoot or write? I suppose that at your own peril and risk, or what? Those in power will not be praised for that? But I don’t know if such authors were censured. After all, there could not be an order for such works? It couldn't. And surely there was no solvent who will be benefiting with awards, titles, warnings?
                      Quote: Aviator_
                      ....... So to speak - what kind of table and chair (medical saying). People of art usually serve a paying customer and nothing more, rarely when there are really "engineers of human souls" in this environment.

                      It turns out that those people of art voluntarily went to the slaughter? And I have been thinking for a long time, now there are no such writers or directors?
                      I also heard that under socialism, artists were often restricted for six months. Is it true? Comedians? For extra words?
                      1. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 23 January 2021 15: 42
                        +1
                        Dmitry, there is such a work by Lenin "Party Organization and Party Literature". With regard to the work of writers and filmmakers, it voices the fact that literature "in general for the sake of literature" does not exist, it necessarily expresses the mood of a class, even if the writer himself does not declare it. There was such a resolution of the Organizing Bureau of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks dated 14 08 1946 "On the magazines Zvezda and Leningrad." "Did I give it?" And regarding "Restricted for six months" - so then the Criminal Code of the RSFSR and other republics was still operating, left-wing concerts with fees past the box office were not encouraged very much. What "extra words" comedians? It was impossible to mock our leaders and our country then, this is not the end of the 80s. No, no, but mockery "for the sake of a catch phrase" slipped through even Vysotsky, for example, in the song "Lukomorye is no more ..." There are such lines "thirty-three men / do not want to recognize their son / let it be considered for now / son of the regiment ... "Oh I really regret that at that time (early 70s) Vysotsky did not intersect with the real son of the regiment, he would have severely thinned his teeth.
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 23 January 2021 16: 31
                        0
                        Thanks for the explanations, unfortunately not everything is clear. You see, Sergei, I work with different people. A lot of different information happens in the process of communication. It happens that gradually you suddenly remember something. For example, about humorist artists. And no longer specify. More than one year has passed. Like there were any sanctions on Arkady Raikin? You wrote about Vysotsky. This is just in time for the topic of our conversation, that there were ridicule, there were mockery, and there were also warnings, fears, criticism. And people (viewers, readers) did not understand what was said.
                        And now, as far as I understand, there is no warning, only mockery and ridicule. Somehow, there is less normal humor. In my
                      3. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 23 January 2021 16: 58
                        +1
                        There was no persecution against Raikin. Vysotsky only once, while drunk, composed such a song, it went unnoticed. There were no warnings about the absence of a clear perspective of the country's development anywhere, well, except for Kochetov's novel, driven to suicide. Critics of Brezhnev's "revisionism" (Albanians, Chinese under Mao) presented an absolutely idiotic alternative to development. As a result, the Albanians generally degenerated as a country (they fell under the West and engaged in drug trafficking), and the Chinese, having studied our experience, reeled perestroika on caterpillars and reformed the PRC.
                      4. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 23 January 2021 17: 16
                        0
                        About Vysotsky is also vague here. After all, it may be a reflection of a seen event. Random or not
                      5. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 23 January 2021 17: 23
                        0
                        Dmitry, take it on the Internet and listen to Vysotsky's song "Lukomorya is no more ..." Everything is very specific. What did he see there?
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 22 January 2021 18: 05
    +2
    Hi Dmitry! In fact, Chukovsky is not drawn to the founder of children's literature in the 20s, although formally, it seems, he was one of the first who at that time began to write for children. The same Marshak, in my opinion, is much deeper. In children's literature of that time, even Mayakovsky was noted.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 22 January 2021 18: 24
      +1
      Hello Sergey! hi In general, I did not specifically study the topic of creating Soviet children's literature. But I know that in this area both writers and revolutionary artists were involved.
      For example, in 1924 the MURZILKA magazine appeared, later for those who are older - the magazines Yozh, ChIZh and SVERCHOK. True, not everyone even existed before the Second World War, MURZILKA is the oldest. Not so long ago he was 90 years old. Thick volumes of digests have been published ---- MURZILKI ARCHIVE .. I have one volume good good
      Everyone likes him
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 22 January 2021 19: 10
        0
        Dmitry, hosh I am a person of the old formation, but ... I can "spioneer". Hee hee.
        But seriously, I would gladly flip through it to remember my childhood
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 23 January 2021 06: 06
          0
          hi good morning!
          Quote: vladcub
          Dmitry, hosh I am a person of the old formation, but ... I can "spioneer". Hee hee.
          But seriously, I would gladly flip through it to remember my childhood

          In general, the weight of each volume is about 2 kg. Advertisements in bookcases -----
          Do not check the shelves for the curious am am look !!
          Here books are not taken at home!
          1. bk0010
            bk0010 23 January 2021 23: 13
            +1
            Quote: Reptiloid
            Don't look around the shelves with a curious am am look !!
            Here books are not taken at home!
            Don't gaze greedily on the shelves
            You will not receive the book at home!
            The hopeless one
            who gives books to their homes!
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 23 January 2021 23: 58
              0
              Quote: bk0010
              .... Do not gaze on the shelves with greedy eyes,
              You will not receive the book at home!
              The hopeless one
              who gives books to their homes!

              good laughing right now I'll go write for the cabinets.
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 22 January 2021 19: 18
        +1
        Initially, "Murzilka" was published before the revolution, and the main character there corresponded to his name - it was some kind of dirty and dry boy. In Soviet times, the main character was a yellow bear in a beret and a scarf. In early childhood, I really liked this magazine, there were a lot of, as they would say now, comics with the adventures of a murzilka in space, under water and anywhere else. By 1963, I outgrew this magazine, switched to "Pioneer", "Young Technician", "Tekhnika-Molodyozhi". In St. Petersburg, the magazine "Koster" successfully competed with "Pioneer", my friend, who grew up there, told me this.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 22 January 2021 19: 45
          +1
          Very interesting, Sergey,
          Quote: Aviator_
          Initially, "Murzilka" was published before the revolution, and the main character there corresponded to his name - it was some kind of dirty and dry boy. In Soviet times, the main character was a yellow bear in a beret and scarf. In early childhood, I really liked this magazine, there were a lot of, as they would say now, comics with the adventures of a murzilka in space, under water and anywhere else. .....
          .... Under Soviet rule, Murzilka was at first a brownish dog, probably gradually changing? I only have the very first volume
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 22 January 2021 19: 48
            +1
            In addition to the yellow bear cub, I have not seen anyone else, but somehow a couple of years ago there was a note about this children's magazine on the internet, it was said that at the very beginning of the twentieth century this magazine was published with the logo in the form of a filthy kid.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 22 January 2021 20: 16
              +1
              Ozone offered thick 4 (5) volumes of large size, like an encyclopedia. Very interesting. There, in the 20s, explanations for children about electricity, safety precautions, rules of conduct, government ........ I read the whole first volume with pleasure, how I fell into another world ...
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 23 January 2021 07: 50
          +2
          I remember: "Pioneer", "Technology of Youth" I read them willingly. "" Young technician "ran by. I found him for the first time, somewhere in the 9-10th grade. And now I remember telling how to make an apartment call
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 23 January 2021 09: 53
            0
            Because of the "Young Technician" I ended up at the Physicotechnical Institute. There was a section "Club XYZ", which was led by students and teachers of MIPT
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 23 January 2021 10: 40
            0
            Quote: vladcub
            I remember: "Pioneer",

            Yes, "Pioneer" was a great magazine ... As I arrived in St. Petersburg, I found his last issues, Gorbachev's. And "Bonfire" "too. But Pioneer was cooler. I especially liked the Games of Magnifying Glass and Tweezers, + Games of Grandfather-Bukvoed, then Radiy Pogodin and Bulychev were also published. For my cousin, they were written out and put in a mailbox, and I can read since I was 4 ...
            And it was from there that I first learned about the shock-explosive hypothesis of the formation of the Moon. Something like this.
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 22 January 2021 07: 18
    +4
    In hindsight, everyone is strong. Now, even about 2014, we can say that it should have been different. And to criticize Stalin from scratch. There are plenty of those now who supposedly know everything.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 22 January 2021 14: 12
      +3
      The more time passes, the more the correctness of Stalin is confirmed, as well as the fallacy, shortsightedness and malice of those who came after him at the head of the country. Therefore, barking and lying will continue and grow.
      Quote: Gardamir
      In hindsight, everyone is strong. Now, even about 2014, we can say that it should have been different. And to criticize Stalin from scratch. There are plenty of those now who supposedly know everything.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 22 January 2021 16: 44
      +3
      They began to "criticize Stalin from scratch" at the 20th Congress of the CPSU, and "deepened" by 22 meters and so "deepened", as in the 70s and even now the Communist Party of the Russian Federation (a few years ago, G. And spoke about this) about " healthy party forces "so that both Svanidze and Heydar and Novodvorskaya, they ALL follow the instructions of the 20th and 22nd congresses of the party
      What obedient "comrades"!
      And if it's no joke, then Svanidze and Gaidar and Volkogonov, THEY WERE ALL IN THE CPSU
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 22 January 2021 16: 49
        0
        then Svanidze and Gaidar and Volkogonov, THEY WERE ALL IN THE CPSU
        then Putin and Medvedev and Chubais. they were all in the KPSS
  • parusnik
    parusnik 22 January 2021 07: 47
    +7
    Stalin did not intercede for Yugoslavia. [
    / b] ....
    How ? fight their way to Yugoslavia through Romania.? smile [B]
    Did what Nicholas II could not - made an alliance with Berlin
    What nonsense? Oh, yes .. Hitler and Stalin, Poland was divided smile And why did not Stalin, being an ally of Hitler, attack Iran in order to break through to Iraq ..? smile Oh, Nicholas II could not? smile And the Treaty of Bjork is a secret Russian-German union treaty, which was signed during the meeting of Emperor Nicholas II with the German Emperor Wilhelm II in 1905 near the island of Bjorko (not far from Vyborg) on ​​board the imperial yacht Pole Star. The treaty was directed primarily against Great Britain. smile
  • Unknown
    Unknown 22 January 2021 09: 10
    +3
    The article is incomprehensible, what the author wanted to say by bringing out such a title, repeating Khrushchev's false statements. The spring of 1941 was very tense, here and the invasion of the Germans in the Balkans, and the flight of Hess to Britain with goals incomprehensible to the USSR. There was a lot of conflicting information, this is how Goebbels describes it ........ "June 14. I am happy. British radio has already stated that our actions against Russia are an empty bluff behind which our preparations for the invasion (on the British Isles - Ed.) That was the main goal ... The deception was completely successful. The Fuehrer is very happy about this ...

    June 18. The disguise of our plans against Russia has reached its highest point. We have plunged the world into a maelstrom of rumors so much that we ourselves do not understand them. The newest trick: we are planning to convene a large conference on peace problems with the participation of Russia ".... And from the mass of information, you need to choose the exact one, but this is not at all easy. Comrade STALIN received information from various sources. We know today when it began WWII, and what goals Nazi Germany pursued. But then, a lot was unclear and there were enough people who wanted the USSR and Germany to start a war between themselves. AND. IN STALIN was not a Kremlin dreamer, like those who came after him, and had no illusions about Hitler. All the pre-war steps indicate that the war was expected.But the behavior of some military personnel raises questions ........... The commanders of the military districts and fleets were warned about this by a telegram from the Chief of the General Staff of the Red Army General of the Army Zhukov on June 18 and reported on the measures taken.The headquarters of the Baltic OVO took the following measures in pursuance of the directive from Moscow:

    “Directive of the headquarters of a special military district

    18th of June 1941

    In order to quickly bring the theater of military operations of the district to combat readiness, I ORDER:

    ... 4. The commander of the 8 and 11 armies:

    a) determine on the site of each army the points of organization of field depots, PT mines, explosives and anti-personnel barriers for the design of certain barriers. The specified property is concentrated in organized warehouses for 21.6.41 g .;

    b) for setting minefields, determine the composition of the teams, where they should be allocated from and their plan of work. All this through the fillings of the border divisions;

    c) proceed to the procurement of scrap materials (rafts, barges, etc.) for arranging ferries across the Vilia, Nevyazh and Dubiss rivers. Crossing points set in conjunction with the operational department of the district headquarters.

    The 30 and 4 pontoon regiments are to be subordinated to the military council of the 11 army. The shelves should be in full readiness for laying bridges across the r. Neman. Next to the exercises, check the conditions of bridge laying by these regiments, achieving the minimum deadlines;

    d) to the commander of the 8 and 11 armies to destroy the most important bridges in the area: the state border and the rear line Šiauliai, Kaunas, r. Neman reconnoiter these bridges, determine for each of them the number of explosives, teams of demolition men and in the nearest points from them to concentrate all means to undermine. The plan for the destruction of bridges to approve the military council of the army.

    The deadline is 21.6.41 ........ The question why was not fulfilled? An excerpt from the interrogation protocol of the chief of communications Grigoriev ... ... You gave the following testimony: “Leaving Minsk, the commander of the communications regiment reported to me that the chemical troops department did not allow him to take combat gas masks from the NZ. The artillery department of the district did not allow him to take cartridges from the NZ, and the regiment only has a guard norm of 15 cartridges per soldier, and the baggage department did not allow him to take field kitchens from NZ. Thus, even in the afternoon of June 18, the content departments of the headquarters were not oriented that the war was close ... And after the telegram of the chief of the General Staff of June 18, the troops of the district were not put on alert. "
    Defendant. All this is true ”....... So, questions, and again questions.
    1. smaug78
      smaug78 22 January 2021 09: 17
      +3
      The article is incomprehensible, what the author wanted to say by bringing out such a title, repeating Khrushchev's false statements.
      Create another MYTH ...
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 22 January 2021 13: 10
      +1
      Quote: Unknown
      The headquarters of the Baltic OVO took the following measures in pursuance of the directive from Moscow:

      The ambush is that the PribOVO, who did the maximum possible for the execution of the directive on June 18, at the same time turned out to be the "champion" in terms of the rate of retreat. Already on July 11, the Germans were on the distant approaches to Leningrad and entered into battle with the cover units of the Luga line.
      1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 22 January 2021 13: 41
        0
        ... yes, and the OODOVO, which was preparing for war this way, even crossed the Soviet-Romanian border, seized a piece of Romanian territory for a couple of days and was ready to rush to Bucharest!
        And, by the way, all the fleets of the USSR met the attack of the Germans without problems and losses.
        This is what it means that the commanders and chiefs were in their places.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 22 January 2021 13: 58
          +2
          Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          And, by the way, all the fleets of the USSR met the attack of the Germans without problems and losses.

          It's just that the fleets were in the bases, and the Germans treated the air defense of the naval base with respect ever since the Battle of Britain. Therefore, they did not ask for trouble, bombing the naval base on the very first day, but simply limited the actions of our Navy as much as possible with their mine laying. And here the Navy showed itself not from the best side. At the Black Sea Fleet, the air defense of Sevastopol made it possible for the Germans to drop mines directly into the harbor of the main fleet base. At the BF, the Germans managed to carry out mine laying in general from surface ships - and then ours drove the CR and EM into the German minefield, which was previously discovered and reported about.
          Plus, in the pre-war years, the Navy completely failed work on mine action. The fight against non-contact magnetic mines (first used against us already in 1918) was at the stage of "a group of enthusiasts are experimenting on ships."
          But okay, non-contact - there were problems even with ordinary anchor mines. The People's Commissariat was aware of the new German anchor mines equipped with a device for countering paravan-trawls (the pipe or chains on the minrepe jammed the cutter - and the trawl itself pulled the mine to the side of the protected ship). Moreover, these mines were delivered to the USSR within the framework of pre-war protocols. But the People's Commissariat did not provide for any measures to combat such "defenders" and, moreover, did not even inform the forts about such German mines.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 23 January 2021 13: 01
            0
            Quote: Alexey RA
            But the People's Commissariat did not provide for any measures to combat such "defenders" and, moreover, did not even inform forts about similar German mines.

            The fleets, of course. sad
        2. Unknown
          Unknown 22 January 2021 15: 15
          +1
          Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          all the fleets of the USSR met the German attack without problems and losses.
          This bike was launched after the war by Kuznetsov. In the first days of the war, the Germans did not set the task of the Luftwaffe to destroy the Soviet Fleet. If such a task had been set, the Navy would have had a hard time. It is impossible to consider the appearance of two aircraft over Sevastopol on 22.06 41 as a serious air raid. Luftwaffe aircraft were limited to laying mines in the Baltic, in the Ch.F. The same picture was observed at S.F. But Liepaja was already seriously bombed. The raid of the 8th Luftwaffe air corps in September 41 of the year on Kronstadt led to sad consequences despite the powerful air defense .........
          ...... LK Marat was sunk and other Red Banner Baltic Fleet ships were damaged.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 22 January 2021 15: 55
            +2
            Quote: Unknown
            It is impossible to consider the appearance of two aircraft over Sevastopol on 22.06 41 as a serious air raid.

            EMNIP, there were four of them. I missed the first pair of air defenses, but the second one has already begun to work.
            Quote: Unknown
            The raid of the 8th Luftwaffe Air Corps in September 41 of the year on Kronstadt, led to sad consequences despite the powerful air defense

            Yes, there was no powerful air defense in Kronstadt in September 1941.
            Kronstadt defended the 1st anti-aircraft artillery regiment under the command of Captain S.A. Ignatovsky, consisting of three divisions, whose anti-aircraft fire weapons were located on Kotlin itself and the forts surrounding it.
            (...)
            A total of 48 76-mm and eight 85-mm guns, as well as three (according to other sources - six) 37-mm anti-aircraft guns, not counting the naval artillery.
            © Platonov
            Almost all of the ZA batteries were scattered over the forts, there was no air defense system - the batteries worked "each for itself." Plus, almost all of the IA went to the land front - six or seven machines remained in Kronstadt itself.
            1. Unknown
              Unknown 22 January 2021 19: 12
              0
              Quote: Alexey RA

              EMNIP, there were four of them. I missed the first pair of air defenses altogether, but the second one has already begun to work

              Even let it be four, well, it does not pull on a powerful aviation group. But in 1942 they took it seriously ....... For June 3, German aviation made 643 sorties, 585 - the next day. In five days (June 2-6), the 8th Air Corps made 3069 sorties, dropped 2264 tons of high-explosive bombs and 23 lighters on our positions. And on June 800, General Manstein ordered his subordinates to launch a general offensive, which was supported by large groups of aircraft; in the air in some minutes, up to 7 German vehicles operated simultaneously. The Air Defense Armed Forces Service recorded up to 250 German aircraft overflights (up to 2000 bombs dropped), and the SOR aviation made 9000 sorties to attack the enemy's forward edge. According to German data, on June 20, near Sevastopol, their aviation performed 7 As they say, feel the difference. About Kronstadt and the raids in September 1368, there was a good article on V.O. for 41/5.05.15/XNUMX, we will not return to it.
          2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
            Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 22 January 2021 16: 17
            +1
            No, I'm sure - the navies of all countries have more order than their land comrades! We have an earthly firmament under our feet, and there is a sea or an ocean, moreover, if you fall overboard in the north - it's cold, and in the tropics - for a shark's lunch ... But just drowning - it's so easy! Therefore, the habitat makes you be more careful, and plus the enemy in case of war.
            In the years of my youth, I served in the navy for three years, and before that, in the 1940s and 60s, in general, for five years. Probably, the fact that the ships are more complicated in the device, and the water element is dangerous.
          3. yehat2
            yehat2 28 January 2021 14: 13
            +1
            the fleet began the war relatively mobilized. This is due to its specificity.
            The Baltic bases did not meet the first raids completely ready, but the Black Sea bases coped.
            Moreover, for the first time in days, the fleet achieved success - several Romanian and Luftwaffe aircraft were shot down, even during the defense of the Hanko base they managed to shoot down.
            Kuznetsov is not deceiving here.
            But when the bombing of the fleet was taken seriously, then the list of losses immediately and quickly began to grow.
            As a result, almost half of the fleet was lost during the passage from Riga and the operations of the Black Sea Fleet.
            the flooding of Marat, by the way, is not an indicator, because the ship was essentially locked in the roadstead.
            But it is worth saying that even after sinking, he did not lose the ability to fire.
            And the last thing - the booking of these ships was recognized as insufficient back in 1912, and the horizontal one was practically absent.
            It was no more difficult to sink it than a dry cargo ship or a barge. I'll just remind you that the Germans never hit the ship - the side of the explosion broke apart at close range.
        3. vladcub
          vladcub 22 January 2021 15: 46
          -1
          "even crossed the Soviet-Romanian border" In fact, for the sake of truth: the Romanians as warriors were not a serious enemy. The personnel units of the Red Army were superior to them
          1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
            Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 22 January 2021 16: 19
            0
            I do not know for sure, but I am sure that both Romanians and Germans were advancing on that sector of the front. But I will not say for sure. It is necessary to look and clarify, at least for yourself.
            1. faiver
              faiver 22 January 2021 18: 13
              +1
              there were Romanians, ours captured the Romanian border town and a bunch of trophies from the Romanians, including a decent amount of artillery and ammunition for them ...
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 22 January 2021 18: 08
        +3
        "champion" in the pace of retreat.

        It is better to be such a "champion" than to lose troops in the cauldron, as it was in Belarus.
    3. vladcub
      vladcub 22 January 2021 16: 16
      +1
      "Excerpt from the protocol of interrogation of the chief of communications Grigoriev" N, in fact, Major General AT Grigoriev was the head of communications of the ZOVO, was shot together with the commander Pavlovsky, the chief of staff of the Klimovskys.
      The PribVO was commanded by General Kuznetsov, he, unlike his colleague Pavlovsky, carried out the instructions of the General Staff
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 22 January 2021 16: 48
        -1
        VN, comrades, I need new glasses: my nicknames are confused. Please don't be angry
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 22 January 2021 09: 18
    0
    Hmm. Why didn't you? Yes, due to the fact that having an advantage in manpower, performance characteristics of equipment and its quantities, plus realizing that fighting adik on two or even four sides is very skeptical about the possibility of an attack. But so numbness sort of like somewhere on the VO read that the team is preparing and deploying the defense took place. It is possible that it was ignored in the localities.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 22 January 2021 10: 16
    +3
    In 2k21, write that Steelen "did not believe" that it is necessary to lie before this for 30 years in a coma.
  • BAI
    BAI 22 January 2021 10: 25
    0
    Memorandum of the Chief of the General Staff of the General Staff of the Spacecraft, Lieutenant General Golikov

    b / n March 20, 1941

    Most of the intelligence data regarding the possibility of a war with the USSR in the spring of 1941 comes from Anglo-American sources, whose task today, undoubtedly, is the desire to worsen relations between the USSR and Germany. At the same time, proceeding from the nature of the emergence and development of fascism, as well as its tasks - the implementation of Hitler's cherished plans, so fully and "colorfully" set out in his book "My Struggle", a summary of all the available intelligence data for the period July 1940 - March 1941, in some of its part, deserve serious attention.

    ......................................................

    1. Based on all the above statements and possible options for action this spring, I believe that the most possible time period for the start of action against the USSR will be the moment after the victory over England or after the conclusion of an peace honorable for Germany with it.

    2. Rumors and documents that speak of the inevitability of a war against the USSR in the spring of this year should be regarded as misinformation coming from British and even, perhaps, German intelligence.

    Head of the Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Red Army

    Lieutenant General (Golikov)

    (CA MO RF. Op. 14750. D. 1. L. 12-21. Manuscript, certified copy. Marks and corrections are available. Attached is a map-diagram of possible options for Germany's attack on the USSR [1. No. 327])



    1. “My struggle” was known in the USSR and the correct conclusions were drawn from it - war is inevitable.
    2. The timing of the start of the war was tied not to a date, but to an event - the end of the war with England.
    1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 22 January 2021 13: 36
      0
      On your point # 2 is debatable, however. Not only this.
      1. No name B
        No name B 24 January 2021 23: 37
        -1
        that the most probable date for the commencement of action against the USSR will be the moment after the victory over England or after the conclusion of an honorable peace for Germany with her.

        And Golikov was right, Stalin slapped Hess's visit to England, the result of which was a kind of promise to imitate the struggle with Germany in order to untie that hand for the war with the USSR ...
  • Doctor
    Doctor 22 January 2021 10: 51
    -3
    How many do not discuss, but the fact remains - the system did not work.
    The country was almost slammed.
    And after that they continue to talk about "genius". fool
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 22 January 2021 18: 59
      +3
      Quote: Arzt
      How many do not discuss, but the fact remains - the system did not work.
      The country was almost slammed.
      And after that they continue to talk about "genius". fool

      You are chatting. It is not clear what. For some of the country, and without a war, slammed. Or did you not notice?
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 22 January 2021 19: 15
        -2
        You are chatting. It is not clear what. For some of the country, and without a war, slammed. Or did you not notice?

        I noticed. But nobody sculpts some brilliant leaders.
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 22 January 2021 19: 41
          +3
          Quote: Arzt
          You are chatting. It is not clear what. For some of the country, and without a war, slammed. Or did you not notice?

          I noticed. But nobody sculpts some brilliant leaders.

          Why is Stalin not a genius to you? He raised the country twice out of nowhere, did not let it be buried in the war with all of Europe - is that not enough? An unprepossessing guy from the provincial Gori (now no one knows where it is). Created one of the greatest states on the planet. Are you capable? And Putin? Who else? And he did. I do not adore him as a fetishist, but I appreciate and respect everything he has done for my country.
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 22 January 2021 20: 32
            -3
            Why is Stalin not a genius to you? He raised the country twice out of nowhere, did not let it be buried in the war with all of Europe - is that not enough? An unprepossessing guy from the provincial Gori (now no one knows where it is). Created one of the greatest states on the planet. Are you capable? And Putin? Who else? And he did. I do not adore him as a fetishist, but I appreciate and respect everything he has done for my country.

            One of the great rulers of the 20th century. I do not argue.
            But far from being a genius.
            The biggest diplomatic mistakes, the war with the largest number of victims in the entire history of the planet, not to mention the fact that in his state people lived a little better than slaves.
            No, not a genius.
  • The Siberian barber
    The Siberian barber 22 January 2021 10: 58
    +2
    A popular article, aimed more at children, but not for users of VO content, people, most of them adults and erudite
  • Force multiplier
    Force multiplier 22 January 2021 11: 57
    0
    Why to the last he held on to the illusion of an alliance with Germany and ordered the troops "not to succumb to provocations"


    The German attack was not sudden and unexpected for the leadership of the USSR, but it was important that it looked like that. So that Churchill clowning ("Nobody was a more staunch enemy of communism") officially recognized the USSR ally... From the very beginning, the USSR was on the side of the Allies, there was no alliance with Germany. (Non-aggression pact, friendship, etc. - this is not an alliance) "They did not succumb to provocations" for the same reason that the Americans in Pearl Harbor "did not notice" and "mistook" the Japanese planes detected by the radar, "forgot" and "did not have time" to transmit the content of the decoded Japanese note, etc.
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 22 January 2021 13: 34
    +2
    In April – June of 1941, with the growing threat of war, additional urgent measures were taken to increase combat readiness, including:
    the call in April – May of 793 of thousands of reservists to replenish the troops of the western military districts almost to wartime states;
    the directive of the Chief of the General Staff of 14 April on urgent putting into combat readiness all long-term firing structures, fortified areas with the installation of weapons of field troops in them in the absence of personnel;
    covert transfer from May 13 from the internal districts of the troops of the second strategic echelon to the western districts while bringing them into combat readiness - 7 armies of 66 divisions (16, 19, 20, 22, 24 and 28-I army, 41-X infantry, th and 21 th mechanized corps);
    bringing the 63 divisions of the reserves of the western districts into combat readiness and putting them out by night marches, secretly, from June 12 into the army of covering these districts (NGO Directive from 12.06.41);
    putting into combat readiness and covert withdrawal under the guise of exercises at the 52 concentration center of the divisions of the second echelon of the cover armies from places of permanent deployment (Order of the NPO from 16.06.41);
    the withdrawal of divisions of the first echelon of cover armies to fortified areas by telegram from the chief of the General Staff from 10.06.41 and the instructions of the people's commissar of defense from 11.06.41 - from the beginning of June;
    bringing all PribOVO and OdVO troops to readiness 18 – 21.06.41;
    creation of command posts from April 1941 of the year and their occupation on June 18 – 21 by urgently formed front-line departments;
    the creation of the army group of S. M. Budyonny on the Dnieper line 21.06.41;
    early release by order of NGOs from 14 in May from all schools and the direction of graduates in the western border districts;
    Order of the NCO No. 0367 from 27. 12.40 and its repetition of 19.06.41 on the dispersal and camouflage of aircraft, etc .;
    Direction Deputy. People's Commissar of Defense of the General K.A. Meretskov I.V. Stalin in ZapOVO and PribOVO to check the combat readiness of the air forces of the districts 14.06.41/XNUMX/XNUMX
    publication of the NGO Directive and Headquarters (No. 1) for putting the troops of the western military districts in combat readiness (signed by 21.06.41 in 22.00, since S.K. Timoshenko and G.K. Zhukov left Stalin in 22.20, having received the approval of this directive by sending it with N.F. Vatutin at the communications center of the General Staff).
    In total, 225 out of 237 divisions of the Red Army intended for the war against Germany and its allies according to defense plans were put on alert before the Germans attacked "(S.Yu. Rybas" Stalin "
  • Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 22 January 2021 13: 34
    -2
    Well arranged on the shelves. Interesting! And thanks!!!
  • vladcub
    vladcub 22 January 2021 15: 32
    +4
    "from the famous Sorge, Olga Chekhova, the Schulze-Boysen group, etc." Samsonov, if you are a historian, you should: "warning Sorge" is just a beautiful myth
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 22 January 2021 16: 29
      -2
      Quote: vladcub
      Samsonov, if you are a historian, you should: "

      There was a historian Alexander Mikhailovich Samsonov, but he died in 1992, and the author of the article by the name of Samsonov is either a publicist-dreamer, or does not exist at all.
  • RUSS
    RUSS 22 January 2021 16: 25
    -6
    “Stalin’s behavior is not clear to our contemporaries, mainly because we tend to consider people of the past the same as we are, which is fundamentally wrong. We could hardly say to the head of foreign intelligence reporting the attack:“ Disinformation! ” to the question.
    But Stalin's views on when and whom Hitler might attack were sharply different from those of ordinary people. "
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 22 January 2021 17: 19
    +3
    Colleagues, Samsonov surprised me and smiled: "Churchill also CHANGED THE INDICATIONS more than once" who interrogated Churchill and when? one
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 22 January 2021 17: 37
      -2
      Quote: Astra wild2
      Colleagues, Samsonov surprised me and smiled: "Churchill also CHANGED THE INDICATIONS more than once" who interrogated Churchill and when? one

      Apparently Stalin interrogated in Yalta and Tehran laughing
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 22 January 2021 17: 40
        +2
        And Samsonov, your protocol?
      2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 25 January 2021 00: 00
        0
        Yes, they interrogated each other there in Yalta after a couple of glasses of good Armenian cognac !!! laughing
  • vladcub
    vladcub 22 January 2021 18: 04
    0
    Quote: RUSS
    Quote: vladcub
    Samsonov, if you are a historian, you should: "

    There was a historian Alexander Mikhailovich Samsonov, but he died in 1992, and the author of the article by the name of Samsonov is either a publicist-dreamer, or does not exist at all.

    Or maybe it's a collective pseudonym like: "Kukryniksy" or "Kozma Prutkov" ¿
  • Doliva63
    Doliva63 22 January 2021 18: 46
    +2
    “Why Stalin did not believe in the attack of the Third Reich until the very end” - all this scales, he just knew that the country was not ready for a big war. And he tried to delay her. When it is already realized how many lives he saved, he will be awarded a Hero of the Russian Federation posthumously, but this will be somewhat later.
  • NF68
    NF68 22 January 2021 19: 15
    0
    People tend to be wrong. But there is also a hole in the old woman. So in this case.
  • Iskazi
    Iskazi 23 January 2021 04: 09
    0
    not bad, not the worst analysis, but I would add one more point about Comrade Stalin's real distrust of intelligence agencies, for which there were a lot of reasons and lack of control of the agencies themselves, and the influence of the agencies on the country's domestic and foreign policy. A very strong influence of the Comintern, and a very difficult relationship with this organization ... but after all, most intelligence networks were based on the people of the Comintern, and the recent repressions against its leaders were not so groundless ...
  • Siberian54
    Siberian54 23 January 2021 06: 52
    0
    Quote: Sancho_SP
    All this parsley is a kind of chess

    Come on, to repeat the notions of Khrushchev and the post-war excuses of Zhukov - everyone perfectly understood and knew the date approximately (two weeks there, two weeks back with a multi-million construction - one moment) But the leader of the USSR J.V. Stalin did not need a second front in the east and needed complete clarity - the country was the victim of the attack (in accordance with the secret articles of the Japanese-Soviet peace treaty, it was terminated when any of the contracting parties attacked the third)
  • nedgen
    nedgen 23 January 2021 11: 40
    0
    The fact of the matter is that all the same in the USSR they knew about the exact date of the attack, but did not take into account Pavlov's betrayal. After all, ALL DISTRICTS, for the exception of the ZOVO, were TRANSFERRED to full combat readiness. And in ZOVO NOTHING DID and the sales did not bring the troops to the flight camps as they should have been on June 20. And probably there were other traitors. But the main reason is still the insufficient preparedness of the troops and, above all, the command for mobile warfare and the HUGE shortage of radio sets of all models and types. hi
  • vladcub
    vladcub 23 January 2021 16: 33
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    Quote: vladcub
    I remember: "Pioneer",

    Yes, "Pioneer" was a great magazine ... As I arrived in St. Petersburg, I found his last issues, Gorbachev's. And "Bonfire" "too. But Pioneer was cooler. I especially liked the Games of Magnifying Glass and Tweezers, + Games of Grandfather-Bukvoed, then Radiy Pogodin and Bulychev were also published. For my cousin, they were written out and put in a mailbox, and I can read since I was 4 ...
    And it was from there that I first learned about the shock-explosive hypothesis of the formation of the Moon. Something like this.

    Our "Bonfire" was at the level of an atomic bomb.
  • zenion
    zenion 23 January 2021 18: 47
    0
    Stalin knew that if preemptively, even spit in the direction of Germany, the USSR would immediately be declared an aggressor. But now they are shouting in step and out of step that Russia is the aggressor, and she is shameless, well, does not react in any way. The United States, maybe that is what it started against Russia, then the United States and its accomplices in NATO will be declared the axis and everyone will pounce on to divide American gold. The United States will not be able to guess on all sides.
  • 123456789
    123456789 23 January 2021 20: 50
    0
    "Comrade Stalin is not a traitor, Comrade Stalin is not a traitor, Comrade Stalin is an honest man, his whole mistake is that he trusted the cavalrymen too much, Comrade Stalin will do everything in his power to correct the situation."
  • meandr51
    meandr51 23 January 2021 21: 38
    +1
    The myth that the USSR "continued to drive raw materials" is rotten. The USSR received a large loan from Germany for the purchase of equipment and remained in debt. The balance of trade was in favor of the USSR in the sense that it received more and better from Germany than it did from him.
  • 1970mk
    1970mk 24 January 2021 09: 58
    0
    What is nonsense!
    Hitler was promised that while he was fighting the Russians, there would be no real second front.
    Announce who and when ... where are the documents? Or did you dream about THIS? In fact, England has been at war with Germany since 1939. The USSR zealot - "drove trains to Germany with raw materials and food" ..
    DOESN'T CONNECT!
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  • yehat2
    yehat2 28 January 2021 13: 46
    +1
    it seems to me that the author is very mistaken about Stalin
    He had foreseen everything except one — the pace of the blitzkrieg.
    Preparations in the USSR went on for the summer of 42, and after the blitzkrieg in Poland and France, it turned out that Germany had time to mobilize a year and a half earlier.
    And in fact, then, no matter how cool, it was unrealistic to turn the course of events.