If Afghan dushmans did not have aircraft, for what purposes did the USSR use fighters - the pilot's story

It would seem what to do for Soviet fighters in the Afghan sky, given that the enemy has no combat aviation... After all, fighter aircraft is intended primarily for gaining air supremacy, searching for and destroying air targets. But the fighter aircraft of the USSR Air Force in Afghanistan, for all that, was not only present, but also performed the most important combat missions.

One of the tasks that fighter pilots in Afghanistan performed was to support ground operations from the air. Sometimes the mere appearance of Soviet aircraft caused panic among the enemy (dushmans) and helped the ground units (for example, the landing force) to solve the combat mission without "unnecessary" losses.

A fairly well-known operation with the use of the MiG-23 of the USSR Air Force took place in 1982 - at the Afghan-Iranian border. These fighters carried out fighter escort of Su-17 aircraft, which in turn "paved the way" for dozens of helicopters with a landing party.

In the program "Specinform" on the TacticMedia channel, an interview was published with the Soviet pilot Mikhail Ogerem, a graduate of the Kharkov Military Aviation School.

Mikhail Oger was at one time a pilot of the MiG-23 fighter, having made a total of more than two hundred "Afghan" sorties.

He talks about the choice of a profession, about everyday life in Afghanistan, about the shelling of home airfields by militants, about the air defense systems used by the enemy, about the purposes of using fighters.

Pilot narration:

Comments

[certero]

It was also necessary for the Pakistani aviation to knock on the border programmatically and then everything would be fine

[Lipchanin]

Quote: certero

It was also necessary for the Pakistani aviation to knock on the border programmatically and then everything would be fine

It was the Pakistanis who shot down Rutskoi

[Aerodrome]

If Afghan dushmans did not have planes, for what purposes did the USSR use fighters?

there were fighter-bombers ... what was the Author's question?

[iouris]

Quote: Aerodrome

there were fighter bombers ... what a question

There were fighter-bombers and fighter-interceptors.
High-precision fighter-bombers Su-17 proved to be ineffective in high-mountainous terrain with difficult terrain. In the Union, at the firing range, they bombed only from angles up to 20 degrees or from a horizontal flight. The most effective (in the sense of "high-precision") method of bombing in Afghanistan turned out to be dive bombing at angles of about 40 degrees. Not every aircraft can safely withdraw from such a dive. Therefore, the MiG-23ML.

[bober1982]

Quote: iouris

In the Union, at the firing range, they bombed only from angles up to 20 degrees or from a horizontal flight.

You, of course, got very excited about saying so.

Quote: iouris

The most effective (in the sense of "high-precision") method of bombing in Afghanistan turned out to be dive bombing at angles of about 40 degrees. Not every aircraft can safely withdraw from such a dive. Therefore, the MiG-23ML

Such work could not be an effective method of bombing, since the dive was carried out at a very high altitude and, accordingly, the bomb was dropped and the dive was withdrawn at a high altitude, which of course influenced the accuracy of the bombing.

[iouris]

Quote: bober1982

You, of course, got very excited about saying so.

Based on the study of materials from the bombing range of three air regiments: MiG-21SMT, MiG-27, MiG-29 (per year). And on what grounds do you doubt?

Quote: bober1982

An effective method of bombing, such work could not be

Well, let's discuss. With numbers in my hands (and in my head).
The hero of the report says that not an "excellent" grade, the circular attitude of the bomb should not exceed 100 m (in range and direction). Most likely, he means bombing from horizontal flight in manual mode. This is confirmed by the data of polygon measurements studied in the apib, which operated the above types of aircraft in the mid-1980s.
When normalizing the relative to the bomb, the scattering characteristic of the probable deviation E (rather than the standard deviation "sigma") is used (as a rule, the scattering in range is twice the scattering in the direction), the scattering of bombs is normal, and the systematic error is assumed to be zero. On this basis, if the relative to the bomb does not exceed "four E" (the "three sigma" rule), then it should be assumed that the pilot has completed the task, and the "large" relative to the bomb is the result of a combination of random factors (unless, of course, the results of photocontrol do not reveal gross pilot errors).
During dive bombing (angle 20 degrees), the amount of scattering decreases approximately one and a half times, i.e. Unit = 60 m, Enapr = 30 m.
It is obvious that an increase in the dive angle over 20 degrees will be accompanied by a decrease in the numerical value of the scattering characteristics.
In addition, the MiG-27 bomber has a sloping hood, which improves the view of the ground. On the other hand, the MiG-23 fighters have a hood covering the radar that makes it difficult to see the ground, which worsens the accuracy characteristics and does not allow aiming at a point target when the dive angle is below 20-23 degrees.
As for Afghanistan, where the mountainous terrain is characteristic, which the enemy skillfully used for defense against aircraft, diving with angles above 40 degrees was often the only possible method of bombing. Here, the maneuverable MiG-23ML had no competitors, since the MiG-29 was not used in Afghanistan.
By the way, the hero of the report says that dive angles close to 90 degrees were used. What could I do ??

[bober1982]

Quote: iouris

Based on the study of materials from the bombing range of three air regiments: MiG-21SMT, MiG-27, MiG-29 (per year).

What kind of range bombing of the MiG-29 can be interpreted?, And even from your words, you studied them.
Have you studied the Su-7, Su-17, Su-24, Su-25 bombing ranges?

Quote: iouris

When normalizing the relative to the bomb, the scattering characteristic is used, the probable deviation E

Quote: iouris

During dive bombing (angle 20 degrees), the amount of scattering decreases approximately one and a half times, i.e. Unit = 60 m, Enapr = 30 m.

In my diploma of a military school it is written down, in the column specialty - navigator-engineer of aviation tactical.
And, reading your reasoning is quite interesting, as people understand it, to throw bombs from a dive and level flight.

[iouris]

Quote: bober1982

What kind of range bombing of the MiG-29 can be interpreted?, And even from your words, you studied them.

I did not "study" them, but analyzed them. All aircraft are one adib and one training ground.
During the year (those years), a rare FA crew made more than 12 bombings of the same type, therefore, to calculate the scattering characteristics, it was necessary to analyze the data for two or three years, select the "leaders" who managed to make 30 ... 33 bombings.
Do not understand what you suspect me of? You never know what someone has written in the diploma. You haven't done the same job. You (the crew) were given a rating: "5", "4", "3", etc. And that's all.

[bober1982]

Very confusing, difficult to understand what you are saying.
They bombed a lot (everyone, not just me), ...
which leaders, which more than 12 bombings, which 30-33 bombings, it is not clear

[iouris]

I'm writing. If you have not studied and applied statistics and probability theory to solve current scientific or practical engineering problems, then it is impossible to understand. Statistics and probability theory are unpopular branches of mathematics today.
When assessing the level of a pilot's individual readiness for bombing with a given accuracy in typical tasks, two competing hypotheses are tested. Hypothesis No. 1 is that the scattering characteristics differ insignificantly from the specified ones. An alternative hypothesis is that the scattering characteristics of a given pilot differ significantly from the specified ones. This, unfortunately, is all that can be said about the accuracy of the bombing of a given IBA or SHA pilot with free-falling bombs. It is impossible to call the method of assessment "according to the average score" scientific. The optimal estimate is for the values ​​of the scattering parameters (there are four of them: two estimates of the standard deviation and two estimates of the mean).
To calculate sufficiently accurate and reliable statistics (estimates of the scattering parameters for a pilot), at least 30 ... 33 implementations are required. With a smaller number of realizations, it is not possible to reliably estimate the probability of the crew (pilot) hitting a typical target size with a bomb. There is only one thing left: to assign the 3rd, 2nd, 1st class by a willful decision.
I will add that the results were once implemented in the 4th Center for Combat Use and Flight Personnel Retraining (4 PPI and PLC). The act of implementation was approved by "Soviet and Russian military pilot, head of the 4th pulp and paper industry and PLC, major general, sniper pilot, Honored military pilot of the Russian Federation" A.N. Kharchevsky.
PS For those who did not know or have forgotten, I recommend to find materials on the Internet about A.N. Kharchevsky.

[bober1982]

Quote: iouris

When assessing the level of a pilot's individual readiness for bombing with a given accuracy in typical tasks, two competing hypotheses are tested.

The level of training of the pilot (crew) for bombing flights is checked for
monitoring readiness, without any hypotheses.

Quote: iouris

at least 30 ... 33 implementations are required. With a smaller number of realizations, it is not possible to reliably estimate the probability of the crew (pilot) hitting a typical target size with a bomb

Why did you decide so? Well, something, and the reliability of the bombing was assessed, basically, quickly and accurately, without any ... 30-33 implementation. It is well known that every flight is unique, just as any bombing is unique, and you are something. then you talk about a mathematical description (the book was harmful and incomprehensible).
I remembered ...... 725th, a lot! ....... if possible, remove the zero! It's a joke, of course.

[Humpty]

1. I have never been to Afghanistan.
2. I do not expect approval and would have kept silent, if it had been from a different transmission cycle.
3. I am grateful to the Soviet soldiers who passed Afghanistan.
In the spring I watched a program from the same cycle, where a representative of a different kind of troops was the narrator.
He talked a lot about how it was. In the story, he repeatedly mentioned his "sporting achievements" during his service, implying the presentation of certificates, medals and a cup. The trouble is that not a single person who served in Afghanistan was awarded the mentioned sports titles. A person owns sports terminology as if I were dancing ballet.
There was a lot of positive feedback on the program in the comments, it was a little hard to read that, in the wake of patriotism, people did not want to notice that the narrator was at least partly a free or not a free impostor.
Several out of hundreds of comments were from people who cut through. Subsequently, negative comments were removed.
The creator of the gear cycle needs to be careful.

[Aviator_]

A two-hour video of a specific Afghan pilot is discussed here, and you give your opinion on another program with a fake Afghan veteran. We ought to call him, otherwise it turns out, as in the song: "If someone, here and there, we sometimes ..."

[iouris]

Interesting storyteller. There are many remarkable everyday and combat details that reflect the time and character of Soviet aviators. It takes patience in time, but it's worth it. Thank you.
PS I thought: actually today he is a Ukrainian pilot: he was born in Ukraine, graduated from a Ukrainian school, a Ukrainian military aviation school ... Surrealism

[bobwings]

He is a Muscovite. I just studied at a school in Kharkov.

[iouris]

He studied in Chuguev. This is the birthplace of the Ukrainian artist Ilya Efimovich Repin. By the way, this school has now been renamed the Institute named after the Ukrainian pilot Ivan Kozhedub (not, not three times Hero of the Soviet Union).
Isn't that sur?

[bober1982]

Quote: iouris

He studied in Chuguev

In 1960, the Chuguevsky VAUL was transformed into a higher educational institution and, in 1961, it was renamed into the Kharkov VVAUL

Quote: iouris

This is the birthplace of the Ukrainian artist Ilya Efimovich Repin

Of course, amused, good luck to you

[Avior]

Kharkiv National University of the Air Force named after three times Hero of the Soviet Union Ivan Kozhedub (KhNUVS) is the largest higher military educational institution engaged in training personnel for the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Founded in 1930, reorganized in 2003.

Several aviation schools were united and enlarged.

[Aviator_]

actually today it is a Ukrainian pilot: he was born in Ukraine, graduated from a Ukrainian school, a Ukrainian military aviation school ... Surrealism

About surrealism - you just noticed it. He was just born and finished school in Moscow, and studied in Kharkov at the Soviet Aviation School, this is where, during the Soviet era, did you find "Ukrainian military schools"?

[bober1982]

Quote: Aviator_

and studied in Kharkov at the Soviet Aviation School

And he served in the Soviet 168th Fighter Regiment.

[Sergey Nikiforov]

I know that in my time there were SU-25s in Shindant, they were tested there In Kabul there was a squadron of Mig23 why, I don’t know, I personally didn’t see combat use It was 1983-1985

[bober1982]

Quote: Sergey Nikiforov

It's 1983-1985

Around this time, the replacement of the "Afghan" MiG-21s began with the MiG-23
It took time to re-equip the 40th Army air group with a more modern fighter.

[iouris]

Well, it began: "I doubt, therefore I exist."
Everything is very clear: there is a hostile Pakistan nearby, armed with an F-16. Troops and attack aircraft operating near the border must be covered (after all, a missile can be launched even from abroad). In addition, only the MiG-23ML (not M) were capable of bombing with large (over 40 degrees) dive angles, which was often the only effective method of bombing.
So in 1984, the Pärnus air regiment, just rearmed on the MiG-23ML, allocated a squadron headed by Lieutenant Colonel A.N. Levchenko, who posthumously became a Hero of the Soviet Union. (He was killed by a direct hit from the DShK on a dive while providing support to an Airborne Forces group that was in a difficult situation).

[Nikolay R-PM]

after watching the video, for a week now I can't stop myself from the cycle of interviews "we fought in Afghanistan." Awesome project.