In the German press, the BMPT "Terminator" was called "Putin's tank for street fighting"

The Russian army began to receive armored vehicles called the Terminator, specially designed for combat in the city. These machines owe their name to the generously equipped weapons tower, writes Gernot Cramper in an article for the German magazine Stern.

The author notes that the Terminator is a purely Russian design and has no analogues in the world. Official name - Support Fighting Vehicle tanks (BMPT). Structurally, the vehicle is a chassis from a T-90 tank, on which a turret with a whole range of weapons is installed.

The BMPT has tremendous firepower. Two 30-mm automatic cannons, 4 anti-tank missiles, a 7,62-mm machine gun help the vehicle to fight with both heavy and light armored vehicles, and to hit enemy personnel. The use of the T-90 chassis allows the BMPT to have good maneuverability, cross-country ability and high travel speed.

The main purpose of the BMPT is to escort tanks and infantry in urban environments. The Terminator was developed based on the combat experience gained by Soviet and Russian troops in the wars in Afghanistan, Chechnya and Syria.

The first batch of new combat vehicles was delivered to the 1st Guards Tank Army of the Western Military District. The re-equipment of this army, aimed at the western direction, is causing concern in Europe, the author writes. The delivery of the Terminator BMPT to the troops means that the Russian military does not exclude the conduct of battles in urban areas. Putin's tank is well suited for street fighting thanks to its weaponry.

Summing up, the author emphasizes that the Russian military is not going to stop at the creation of the Terminator BMPT. Some media outlets have already reported on plans to install a BMPT turret on a wheeled chassis, which will significantly increase the vehicle's maneuverability and combat capability on city streets.

Comments

[Pessimist22]

Putin himself will lead him to the streets of Europe

[Incvizitor]

Nobody will stand on ceremony with these petty bandits now into a desert and no tanks are needed.

[The leader of the Redskins]

I kept missing out on that elevation angle data. Do they at least allow you to fire on the upper floors of buildings, or is this another horror story for burghers?

[Pessimist22]

-5 ... 45 elevation angles of the 30 mm gun.

[yehat2]

the problem is not in the corners, but in the other
1.no programmable to detonate shells, there are questions for subcaliber
2. The concept itself is archaic - the terminator was relevant in 1995, but 25 years have passed and the equipment of the equipment has changed a lot. For example, there is no UAV, there are questions about communications and equipment.
There are even questions about sane functions - the BMPT is simply obliged to take on the coordination of the battle, but this is not the case, and so on. The key point is archaic.
3.No active protection
4. Engineering aspect. The BMPT was created to support tanks, but it cannot support them.
I would immediately think about a trailer, for example, with ammunition, about the function of towing under fire, demining, reconnaissance and reconnaissance, it seems to me relevant to have something with an overhead trajectory of fire, it would be nice to have a connection with the infantry outside like a telephone receiver or something similar, option with a flamethrower. But the terminator is a stupid tank with autocannons and nothing else.

[Machito]

Quote: yehat2

the problem is not in the corners, but in the other
1.no programmable to detonate shells, there are questions for subcaliber
2. The concept itself is archaic - the terminator was relevant in 1995, but 25 years have passed and the equipment of the equipment has changed a lot. For example, there is no UAV, there are questions about communications and equipment.
There are even questions about sane functions - the BMPT is simply obliged to take on the coordination of the battle, but this is not the case, and so on. The key point is archaic.
3.No active protection
4. Engineering aspect. The BMPT was created to support tanks, but it cannot support them.
I would immediately think about a trailer, for example, with ammunition, about the function of towing under fire, demining, reconnaissance and reconnaissance, it seems to me relevant to have something with an overhead trajectory of fire, it would be nice to have a connection with the infantry outside like a telephone receiver or something similar, option with a flamethrower. But the terminator is a stupid tank with autocannons and nothing else.

In my opinion, the Terminator is hardly a tank for urban combat. Its function is to support tanks in battle in an open field. The storming of Grozny once again proved that it is very expensive to storm the city with tanks, the losses are too high.

[yehat2]

Well, no one is good in the city, the infantry for urban combat does not exist either.
And the main advantage of the tank is still a gun, which at close range loses its main advantages over a lightly armed enemy.
The best that a tank can in a city is to take a fortified position, where it can shoot forward a couple of hundred meters.
The BMPT terminator is distinguished by the fact that it is still easier and faster for it to turn the turret, which is convenient when there is a sharp change in targets in the city, and it is also capable of conducting heavy fire. And this is better, but still the fundamental problems remain - poor maneuverability in the city, poor visibility, no fire advantage over non-idiotic infantry even today. This leads to a loss of initiative in front of the infantry. And heavy weapons should provide it. Therefore, if you look at foreign attempts, for example, in Israel, Korea, China and even England, then they are trying to expand the usual equipment of the machine - catapults for reconnaissance UAVs, a serious improvement in observation equipment, ballistics detection systems - art fire and snipers, active means of intercepting ATGMs, smoke screens, laser blinding systems, sound emitters, etc.
And NOBODY makes a stupid tank with 2 guns and 4 ATGMs and is no longer equipped with anything. Are we preparing for a zombie apocalypse?

[Doliva63]

Quote: Bearded

Quote: yehat2

the problem is not in the corners, but in the other
1.no programmable to detonate shells, there are questions for subcaliber
2. The concept itself is archaic - the terminator was relevant in 1995, but 25 years have passed and the equipment of the equipment has changed a lot. For example, there is no UAV, there are questions about communications and equipment.
There are even questions about sane functions - the BMPT is simply obliged to take on the coordination of the battle, but this is not the case, and so on. The key point is archaic.
3.No active protection
4. Engineering aspect. The BMPT was created to support tanks, but it cannot support them.
I would immediately think about a trailer, for example, with ammunition, about the function of towing under fire, demining, reconnaissance and reconnaissance, it seems to me relevant to have something with an overhead trajectory of fire, it would be nice to have a connection with the infantry outside like a telephone receiver or something similar, option with a flamethrower. But the terminator is a stupid tank with autocannons and nothing else.

In my opinion, the Terminator is hardly a tank for urban combat. Its function is to support tanks in battle in an open field. The storming of Grozny once again proved that it is very expensive to storm the city with tanks, the losses are too high.

The storming of Grozny did not prove anything, but only confirmed that in making a decision, any commander must be guided by the Combat Manual, and not by the political ambitions of anyone else.

[patch25]

Especially when 57 mm is slammed

[psiho117]

Quote: yehat2

But the terminator is a stupid tank with autocannons and nothing else.

Not even a tank - a combat module with bulletproof armor, only the chassis and crew compartment have armor. To drive this crap into the city, when its very first pickup with NSV or CPV, in a queue will disable it - nonsense. And this "Frame" itself is nonsense, no matter how you try to present it as a mega-terminator.

[yehat2]

Well, it is the commentators who drive her into the city, after all, the terminator is rolled in the field and, as I understand it, behind the tanks. So your score is not up to date. In addition, the terminator is not afraid of machine gun fire, and the first pickup itself has a much greater chance of being the first to fire.
But his problem is that he, in fact, can no more than a tank and it is not clear how he can support, and this is his main function.

[psiho117]

Quote: yehat2

it is the commentators who drive her into the city, after all, the terminator is rolled in the field and, as I understand it, behind the tanks. So your score is not up to date.

And what, when the tanks enter the urban agglomeration - the BMPT should remain in an open field? If you think that tanks have no place there, I will disappoint you - so far not a single country in the world has deleted the use of armored vehicles in urban combat from the regulations.
And judging by the fact that according to all the forecasts of military analysts, battles in urban agglomerations, by 2030, will account for 90% of all armed clashes - tanks will continue to participate in urban battles and beyond.

the terminator is not afraid of machine gun fire, and the first pickup itself has much more chances of being the first to fire.

outboard weapons have bulletproof armor in a circle, cannon mantles - from 30 mm. Even DZ can't really stick around it - a too fragile tower with instruments will sweep everything away with a close gap.
There are a lot of pickups and machine guns on the windows, but there is only one BMPT
not the first, so the second will put a burst into the tower from the side, damage the guns or devices - and hello.
And yet, you know, it's very unpleasant when from a house you just passed - an RPG flies in the car's ass, or grenades are thrown onto the roof.
The tank will withstand it, but the BMPT will not.

But his problem is that he, in fact, can no more than a tank and it is not clear how he can support, and this is his main function.

The only advantage of the existing BMPT project over the BMP is tank observation devices and an MSA.
Otherwise, the BMP-3, in terms of armament, covers it in all respects.
True, the tanks are all the same, and what is the advantage of the BMPT, precisely designed to detect and eliminate threats to tanks - I do not understand at point-blank.

[yehat2]

the first version was vulnerable to light weapons fire.
the second was protected much more reliably - they added shields, screens, etc. - especially missile launchers, so I do not share your belief that it is easy to hit. The devices are protected at the tank level.
The second point is that armored vehicles should also fight in urban conditions, but why should this happen according to the Grozny scenario, and not, for example, according to the scenario of the storming of Budapest at the end of ww2? The only question is a normal tactical decision.
As for the BMP-3, I agree. It is completely incomprehensible to me why nothing with mounted ballistics is installed on the BMPT - no howitzers, no mortar, not even grenade launchers, although it seems that the second version had a flame grenade launcher option.
but the main problem of the tank is the stealth of infantry and light vehicles with ATGMs, especially such as javelin, as well as the mine threat is not parried in any way. I just don't understand why this special machine is needed. Yes, she can work in the same ranks with tanks, but there is nothing to work with.

[psiho117]

Quote: yehat2

the second was protected much more reliably - they added shields, screens, etc.

This is already with screens and shields. There, the whole emphasis is on the protection of the case, and the case is protected really well. It is not clear, however, how the vehicle will perform a combat mission if the weapons are openly weakly protected.

Here is the booking scheme - the supply of shells is armored, and, in part, the elements of weapons. The thickest elements are designed for 14,5mm from 500m. the rest is bulletproof from 12,7 and 7,62. The roof, as you can see, is armored to a minimum. Plus, as I already said - the impossibility of installing a DZ on the tower - in modern conditions this is unacceptable.

why ... not according to the scenario of the storming of Budapest at the end of ww2? The only question is a normal tactical decision.

Generally a bad example. Because there won't be enough strength.
The entire Budapest of those years, with a margin placed on the territory of some seedy Iraqi or Syrian town - and there are tens of thousands of such towns.
And if we take into account that a group of Soviet troops took part in the assault, 720 people, losing 000 killed and 80 wounded - so in general. In modern conditions, it is unrealistic to collect even a tenth of these forces to storm a city many times larger.
And this still does not take into account possible losses among the civilian population, which will be turned into minced meat, those very 150 guns, per 1 km of the front, which were required to take the city. The casualties among the population, by the way, amounted to at least 13 killed during the fighting, and another 000 died from hunger and disease.
Okay, huh? Now count these losses on the current population density - and finally understand: carpet bombing and massive artillery barrage have sunk into oblivion, modern war does not look like that.
Now battles are taking place in cities saturated with civilians, and the enemy will be distributed among them, clashes arise chaotically, here and there, they can shoot from an RPG or throw an explosive package on the roof from a house they just passed.
In short, everything is complicated. Read the memoirs of American soldiers about the storming of Fallujah, El-Tikrit, etc.
This is what modern city war looks like.

[yehat2]

The funny thing is that even if the weapons are in good order, it is still not clear how to perform the announced functions.

[Kuroneko]

Quote: yehat2

But the terminator is a stupid tank with autocannons and nothing else.

Forgotten automatic grenade launchers.

[yehat2]

with a range of 30-50 meters? This will help the tanks awesome!

[Kuroneko]

For the city the most it. And yes, it will help the tanks in the city.
In general, for grenade launchers, the range of a shot is measured in kilometers. The same Flame could give out two kilometers.

[yehat2]

Yes, you can make the range as much as possible, although I strongly doubt that the flame can adequately work at least 500 meters.
how are you going to aim at the target? How to see a man in cover from a tank?
that's why I'm talking about 50 meters.

[mgfly]

up to 45 degrees in the top can lift trunks

[Piramidon]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Do they at least allow you to fire on the upper floors of buildings, or is this another horror story for burghers?

The Syrian army successfully used "Shilki" for this

[The leader of the Redskins]

Well, broadly understandable. It's all the same memory. But 45 degrees ... As for me - not enough.

[u123uuu]

The grenade launchers won't let you get closer than 45 degrees, plus you can always use the hillock, use the wreck to raise the front end and change the angle if it's on fire.

[The leader of the Redskins]

In a city with a hillock and a ruin? Probably, we live in different cities ...

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

we live in different cities ...

After carpet-making, all cities are the same.

[MoJloT]

The Syrian army successfully used "Shilki" for this

The Syrian "army" uses shilka for this out of hopelessness, from which it successfully lost them, in addition, the shilka cannot act in the same order as tanks.

[Doliva63]

Quote: MoJloT

The Syrian army successfully used "Shilki" for this

The Syrian "army" uses shilka for this out of hopelessness, from which it successfully lost them, in addition, the shilka cannot act in the same order as tanks.

What a news! Wasn't it designed to provide air defense for the battlefield? And yes, Shilka is not used for ground targets out of desperation - this is its second purpose, if you are not aware. Well, and losses in a war are inevitable, nothing can be done.

[psiho117]

Quote: MoJloT

The Syrian "army" uses shilka for this out of hopelessness, from which it successfully lost them

They also use tanks through the jepu - and they also lose constantly. They are still warriors, to be honest - you can't go far on one fighting spirit, you also need a skill.

[unhappy]

In my opinion, the escort car should also shoot at helicopters, if this is not so, then it's a pity ...

[Doliva63]

Quote: unhappy

In my opinion, the escort car should also shoot at helicopters, if this is not so, then it's a pity ...

For this, there was once Shilka, then Biryusa, then Tunguska - both provided air defense, and fired on the ground. What else do you need?

[venik]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

I kept missing out on that elevation angle data. Do they at least allow you to fire on the upper floors of buildings, or is this another horror story for burghers?

=======
Cannons have 6 -5 - +45 deg. , so that, in principle, you can fire on the upper floors!

[NDR-791]

The first batch of new combat vehicles was delivered to the 1st Guards Tank Army of the Western Military District. The re-equipment of this army, aimed at the western direction, is causing concern in Europe, the author writes.
Precisely, it helps well from such tolerant ones.

It is a pity that Stalin did not have such machines, they would have lost less.

[MoJloT]

It's a pity that Stalin did not have such machines

It is a pity that Stalin did not have 41 competent military leaders.

[NDR-791]

And that too, of course. But a competent military leader with the correct technique is much better than a competent one without it.

[MoJloT]

much better than literate without one.

The technician will not help the illiterate.

[psiho117]

Quote: MoJloT

Stalin did not have 41 competent military leaders

There were - but within the framework of the current purely attacking doctrine, orders "at any cost" and the fact that the army was caught with its pants down and incomplete rearmament - quickly ended. Even prisoners had to be amnestied.

[u123uuu]

Yes, but that time is not modern, now such a fascist usually sits with TOW2 and, unfortunately, gives the Terminator little chance.

[Graz]

Some media outlets have already reported on plans to install a BMPT turret on a wheeled chassis, which will significantly increase the vehicle's maneuverability and combat capability on city streets.

I was interested in this from all the German writings, that I had never read or heard anything like it before

[vch62388]

In my opinion, it makes no sense, tk. the main idea is lost, security at the level of the tank and the ability to operate with it in the same battle formations.

[bad]

Someday Putin will be replaced by another president - I wonder, will they also call BMPT?

[Kart]

Their damp dreams are for the new Gorbachev, or at least Yeltsin. And it doesn't matter what color it will be, red, white or brown. The main thing is to destroy and sell the country, and quickly.

[lis-ik]

Quote: Carte

The main thing is to destroy and sell the country, and quickly.

Is it slow and painful now? In my opinion, they are also sold by Stakhanov methods.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: lis-ik

Is it slow and painful now? In my opinion, they are also sold by Stakhanov methods.

They are in a hurry, they are scrapping everything clean, it remains only to outsource the NWF to the Wrottenberg and Timchinks, or maybe they have already.

[Stas157]

Quote: malo

Someday Putin will be replaced by another president

I also believed that twenty years ago. Not anymore.

It seems to me eternal. Well, there will be at least twenty more years until they endure it.

[Cron]

Quote: Stas157

Quote: malo

Someday Putin will be replaced by another president

I also believed that twenty years ago. Not anymore.

It seems to me eternal. Well, there will be at least twenty more years until they endure it.

Twenty years ago, the very existence of Russia was in question, and you were thinking about changing the president? I think you're just an ordinary balabol, and a minor

[Stas157]

Quote: Cron

Twenty years ago the very existence of Russia was in question,

Is this in 2000 (2001)? Everything was in perfect order there. And GDP grew at almost 8% per annum. Thanks to the anti-crisis measures of the Primakov government, which were taken at the time.

Fans of horror stories of the 90s, you do not go too far.

Quote: Cron

I think you just an ordinary balabol, and a minor

It only seems to you. You will see the real one in the mirror.

[Cron]

No, what are you, everything was just wonderful, it couldn't be better, it's better only if in dreams.
Only there was an invasion of Dagestan and the beginning of the second Chechen war, and then everything was great right away. You can start building democracy again right away. They built it in the 90s, almost everyone missed the mark, to put it mildly, and then immediately start building again, because an attempt is not torture. After that all the trash, it should work by itself, nothing needs to be done.
Just recently, some regions almost left the composition, but everything is fine. Even the republics were already in conflict with each other and staged hostilities, but everything is fine. We lost large territories, which caused enormous damage to the state, but everything is fine. The country went through the privatization as a skating rink, but everything is fine. The oligarchs are in power and everything is fine.
And his GDP was growing. Probably fell at first, and then grew. Some comrades also dropped in 2014, and then grew proudly.
Any sane person understands that you can immediately take and start building democracy, just an ideal moment. Nothing really works, but democracy is the place. We would have offered Stas, we will not rhyme, a choice from two or more pieces of a known substance, but with money, someone would not have come forward from the people, would we not play in kindergarten at all? And he would run so happy. But not a slave, there would be turnover. And he would even arrange coups so that they would not sit for a long time and for one term. It painfully reminded me of one well-known country.

[bar]

Quote: Stas157

GDP grew at almost 8% per annum Thanks to the anti-crisis measures of the Primakov government

Is it after the default?

[Stas157]

There was a default in 1998. The anti-crisis management, the best in the history of the Primakov government, stopped the problem.

[bar]

Quote: Stas157

Anti-crisis management, the best in the history of the Primakov government

Hike, these are already religious beliefs. I believe because it is absurd (s).
Discussions are inappropriate here, especially since in our country freedom of religion is protected by the constitution.

[Stas157]

Quote: bar

Hike, these are already religious beliefs. It's pointless to argue about it,

No need to argue, just name your version. Which government in recent history do you think is the best?

All these inept liberal governments do not have the word “best”. The only exception to the general rule is the government of the left - Primakov, Maslyukov, Gerashchenko. Too bad they weren't allowed to work longer! Primakov wrote in his memoirs how the oligarchs pressed on EBN and demanded to remove Primakov because he blocked the air for them.

[Stas157]

Quote: bar

It is a after default?

For non-believers (minusists), here are the GDP growth statistics after default 1998.
1999: + 6.4%
2000: + 10,0%
In 2000, Putin became president, but GDP began to decline and there has never been a 10% increase. And this is despite the oil at $ 120!

And after the gold-oil-zero it became completely rotten. In general, absolutely. And with the growth of GDP, and with the welfare of the people, with pensions, the exchange rate of the ruble ... and with all the previous promises. 20 years of the tsar's reign turned out to be erased from the development of Russia.

[bar]

Quote: Stas157

Is it after the default?

For non-believers (minusists), here are the statistics of GDP growth after the default

For those who believe in an unprecedented economic boom in the 90s, one should read what the "low base effect" is. There is an article about this even in Wikipedia.

[Stas157]

Quote: bar

For believers in an unprecedented economic growth in the 90s

The gag doesn't need to be dumped for all to see. Where did I say about the rise, and not yet experienced in the 90s?

Quote: bar

"low base effect"

Did we have a high base then? For all 30 years that we have been living under the new government, this low base is - a developing economy. Moreover, in terms of the pace of its development, it lags behind other developing countries.

[bar]

Quote: Stas157

The gag doesn't need to be dumped for all to see.

I fully support your self-criticism

Quote: Stas157

all 30 years that we have lived under the new government

Personally, I do not live "under the new government," but in my own camp. And much longer than 30 years. And the Oppska noodles have not lingered on my ears for a long time.

[Stas157]

Quote: bar

And the Oppska noodles on my ears don't linger for a long time

All this nonsense and compote? It's familiar. When there are no arguments left, emotions enter.

[Siberian54]

Only in siberia at that moment people came to power under the pre-election slogan of secession from Moscow (it was not for nothing that they sent the swan to Krasnoyarsk)

[Stas157]

Quote: Cron

and you thought about the change of president?

About 20 years ago, many greeted with enthusiasm the well-known: "I'm tired, I'm leaving."

If instead of the drunk Primakov would have become with his left-wing team (or the Communists would have won), it would have been definitely better. But the one who came came. And he spawned a bunch of oligarchs, closed most of the Soviet factories (they still worked at the very least when a drunkard), ineptly profited the time of the golden, oil rain ...

And now we have what we have. Poor by world standards, the population and development is about zero, in a simple way - a stabilizer. Not at all a brilliant position for a once great country.

[Cron]

or the communists would have won

You didn't have to lose to win. What other communists, and what would be better? Didn't they ruin everything? Or did someone else from the outside interfere with them? The communists would have come, they said, so they were, there was no need to leave.
The stabilizer is not. Do you feel the difference?

Poor by world standards, the population and development is about zero, in a simple way - a stabilizer. Not at all a brilliant position for a once great country.

Well, when did we have a rich population in a once great country? If you attach greatness to this?

greeted with enthusiasm the well-known: "I'm tired, I'm leaving."

You could not meet anything. There was no "I'm tired". You are just another opportunist, a person who lives on memes and slogans. I'm not even interested in talking to you. Everything is too formulaic

[Stas157]

Quote: Cron

Just recently some areas nearly fell out, but everything is fine.

It is noteworthy that Primakov was against the conquest of Chechnya (he doubted the correctness of this). I am of the same opinion. We now have areas that trade their loyalty and can break out at any moment. If the "regions" are so dear to you, wouldn't it be better to annex our ancestral lands with the Russian people? Donbass for example. And there is no need to fight and there will be no problems later.

Quote: Cron

You are just another opportunist, a person who lives on memes and slogans. I'm not even interested in talking to you.

Then why are you here?

[Cron]

Quote: Stas157

It is noteworthy that Primakov was against the conquest of Chechnya (he doubted the correctness of this). I am of the same opinion. We now have areas that trade their loyalty and can break out at any moment. If the "regions" are so dear to you, wouldn't it be better to annex our ancestral lands with the Russian people? Donbass for example. And there is no need to fight and there will be no problems later.

And nobody conquered Chechnya. Chechnya was cleared of terrorists and gangs of formations, and they were there from all over the world, after they invaded Dagestan, although they had a formal and delayed independence, and even had their own mini embassies in some countries, and then a referendum was held there ... The preconditions for this were created by the chaos in the country, declared a parade of sovereignty and an attempt to sit on two chairs in the Georgian-Abkhaz war, with which many Chechens were unhappy.

It is noteworthy that Primakov was against the conquest of Chechnya

he is because. We would get near us a hotbed of terrorism and a mini caliphate. The consequences of which would be much greater than you describe.

Then why are you here?

I read the news and comment. Until the moment people start throwing another fictional nonsense

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Stas157

It is noteworthy that Primakov was against the conquest of Chechnya (he doubted the correctness of this). I am of the same opinion. We now have areas that trade their loyalty and can break out at any moment.

And then we had areas from which at any moment a gang of two thousand people could come to us. And the leadership of these regions just shrugged and said that it did not control these gangs and did not accept any claims.
And I still do not remember about the "creeping expansion", when the regions of neighboring republics bordering on the Chechen Republic actually gradually came under the control of the Chechen Republic.

[Stas157]

Quote: Alexey RA

And then we had areas from which a gang could come to us at any moment

Do you think that subsidized Chechnya in its current form is a brilliant solution to problems? Are you sure that it will not be a time bomb and will not blaze in the future? Why is the mono-national republic flooded with money and strengthened? Chechnya has completely merged into Russian reality and shares the all-Russian way of life (at least, say, at the level of Tatarstan)? Do we need all this?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Stas157

Do you think that subsidized Chechnya in its current form is a brilliant solution to problems?

No, not shiny.
But an "independent" CR is an even worse option.

[Stas157]

Quote: Alexey RA

But an "independent" CR is an even worse option.

Option to fill it with money and enhance the best one? So at least you wouldn't have to spend money. And if it exploded, then it would be unlike a weaker state. And they could handle the gangs. Syria has clearly shown.

[Siberian54]

Quote: Stas157

And they could handle the gangs. Syria has clearly shown

You can see everything so clearly from the sofa!

[Stas157]

Quote: Siberian54

You can see everything so clearly from the sofa!

OK! Keep watching.

[Stas157]

Quote: Cron

What other communistsand which would be better? Didn't they ruin everything?

In your opinion, the communists ruined everything, and Putin and the oligarchs raised the country from their knees?

And in my opinion, the present ones are just eating up the Soviet legacy, to which they owe their enormous riches.

[Cron]

In your opinion, the communists ruined everything, and Putin and the oligarchs raised the country from their knees?

And in my opinion, the current ones are eating up the Soviet legacy, to which they owe their enormous wealth.

Yes, the communists destroyed it. Unfortunately, this is so, the entire system has rotted from top to bottom. Someone was pretending to be a dove of peace, while others were already taking control of everything.
I'll tell you what. Near the place where I once lived, there were several state farms and almost all of them were plundered, people remained in poverty, and I was a little more fortunate. And, strangely enough, it was not Putin or the oligarchs who did it. This was done by those who once received certificates for high performance, for some kind of merit, etc. It was not just the power that rotted, people rotted. No, not all, but there were enough of them.

[Stas157]

Quote: Cron

Yes, the communists destroyed... Unfortunately, this is so, the entire system has rotted from top to bottom.

We must not forget that it was under the communists that Russia became a superpower for the first time in its thousand-year history. She was the first to fly into space and create a reliable nuclear shield. And now we're just rolling downhill. And most importantly, there is no clearance, no prospects.

[Cron]

We must not forget that it was under the communists that Russia became a superpower for the first time in its thousand-year history. She was the first to fly into space and create a reliable nuclear shield. And now we're just rolling downhill. And most importantly, there is no clearance, no prospects.

And I don’t forget anything.
The superpower is not super, but Russia has been great for many centuries and one of the leading powers. No need to throw slogans about plow and bast shoes.
And we started rolling, in my personal conviction, after the death of a well-known figure. After him, everything went on for some time by inertia and quickly came to an end, unfortunately.
And we haven’t been rolling anywhere for a long time, we just are not growing at the rate we would like. Well, the time is different now. We gave everything ourselves in the 90s. They gave up the markets, lagged behind in technology and the economy, although this trend was already under the USSR and the further, the worse. Now try it all catch up and take it away.
The same sanctions on Irkut are not directed against the authorities, they are directed against the development of our technologies, in order to at least slow down, but at the very least make it impossible to complete the project.
There would be no lumen, no prospects if we did what we did in Ukraine. We have lost a lot, and we could have lost everything. And you only judge within the framework of what is now. Looking at one negative. I would say that we show an uncertain and indistinct development, largely because we ourselves are to blame, but waiting for someone to come and change everything at the snap of a finger is so stupid for me.

[Stas157]

Quote: Cron

Russia was great for many centuries and one of leading powers.

One of. And in Soviet times she was the most. Yes, and we closed the page with the dark and hopeless tsarist autocracy in 1917, as in 1991 a new attack. But the people, having lived 70 years free, will not let themselves be kept in chains for long. Historians argue that global changes are carried out by the third generation that is not broken. So another 30 years maximum.

Quote: Cron

And we haven't rolled anywhere for a long time, just growing at the wrong pace

So they have grown to the level of African salaries ... Russia's growth rates are below the world average. And if we consider that the main growth is provided by developing countries, including Africa, this means that we are very far behind in our undeveloped development.

Quote: Cron

wait that someone will come and change everything at the snap of a finger, for me it's so stupid.

So you are doing this under Putin. Legs dangling and waiting for something. Justifying the stabilizer in every possible way.

[Cron]

Your long monologue requires even more detailed answers, but I'm too lazy.

One of. And in Soviet times she was the most.

Was not. Was also one of the

But the people, having lived 70 years free, will not let themselves be kept in chains for long.

Well, many will argue with you about what kind of freedom you are talking about under the USSR.

Historians argue that global changes are carried out by the third generation that is not broken. So another 30 years maximum.

Global changes bring about preconditions, and not some mythical, not broken generation.

Russia's growth rates are below the world average. And if we consider that the main growth is provided by developing countries, including Africa, this means that we are very far behind in our undeveloped development.

You need this in the economy

So you are doing this under Putin. Legs dangling and waiting for something. Justifying the stabilizer in every possible way.

I didn't hang anything, I worked, and I work in this country. Well, excuse me, I'm such a person, you can't force me to go and jump into the square, for some kind of association, without reading a single page of this document. I am used to studying first, and then making a decision, and it is better that it be within the law and take into account the opinion of the entire population.

[lis-ik]

Quote: Cron

Quote: Stas157

Quote: malo

Someday Putin will be replaced by another president

I also believed that twenty years ago. Not anymore.

It seems to me eternal. Well, there will be at least twenty more years until they endure it.

Twenty years ago, the very existence of Russia was in question, and you were thinking about changing the president? I think you're just an ordinary balabol, and a minor

Oh, and you will have a heavy hangover or disappointment, if you like, when the power elite changes at the top. some oligarchs will strangle others and remove them from the trough. The same federal media will begin to scourge and pour mud on the current government, and the same leading "propagandists" Kiselev, Solovyov, Skabeyeva and other venal rubbish will expose and expose them to clean water.

[Piramidon]

Quote: malo

Someday Putin will be replaced by another president - I wonder, will they also call BMPT?

But what's the bad name? Let it be saved. Molotov has long been gone, and the name "cocktail" after his name exists.

[Svarog]

Quote: malo

Someday Putin will be replaced by another president

It was not reset to zero for this ..

[Stas157]

Quote: Svarog

It was not reset to zero for this ..

On the conscientious: "I'm tired, I'm leaving", after this you can not count. It's a pity!

[Svarog]

Quote: Stas157

Quote: Svarog

It was not reset to zero for this ..

On the conscientious: "I'm tired, I'm leaving", after this you can not count. It's a pity!

There is no conscience, they just ask you to treat with understanding ..

[Stas157]

Quote: Svarog

There is no conscience

But there is a lot of money. Some agree to such an exchange. But the bad thing is that such people run the state.

[Svarog]

Quote: Stas157

Quote: Svarog

There is no conscience

But there is a lot of money. Some agree to such an exchange. But the bad thing is that such people run the state.

Not that bad .. but disastrous .. for citizens of the Russian Federation. That is exactly what demography shows. And no one was asked to agree to such an exchange .. 2% agree, who do not need pensions either.

[Siberian54]

Quote: Svarog

I'm tired, I'm leaving "

Unfortunately, there was no such phrase on that happy New Year.

[Doliva63]

Quote: malo

Someday Putin will be replaced by another president - I wonder, will they also call BMPT?

No. I believe that with the departure of Putin, this squalor will be removed from the troops.

[Siberian54]

From a different point of view from an amateur: replacing weakly armored air defense vehicles on the battlefield?

[Doliva63]

Quote: Siberian54

From a different point of view from an amateur: replacing weakly armored air defense vehicles on the battlefield?

Well, there will be the same termitrahrer, but with an air defense system, and this is a completely different machine. And I am for this.

[Flooding]

So in which version is the BMPT ordered?
Without automatic grenade launchers?
The crew is three people?

[Grits]

Quote: Flood

So in which version is the BMPT ordered?
Without automatic grenade launchers?
The crew is three people?

I was constantly confused too. And the journalists were even more confused. Judging by all the photos and videos given to similar articles, it's still an option with grenade launchers. Without them, it makes no sense to fence a garden.

[voyaka uh]

A mortar is more useful in a city than a grenade launcher. To throw mines over houses to neighboring streets.

[Piramidon]

Quote: voyaka uh

A mortar is more useful in a city than a grenade launcher. To throw mines over houses to neighboring streets.

It is problematic to throw a mine into the window of the house.

[voyaka uh]

But the Terminator has a 30mm cannon with a high barrel rise.
It is convenient to hit the windows from it.
Moreover, it easily breaks through brick walls.

[3danimal]

2 guns 30mm is not the best solution, it reminds of the idea of ​​the Mammoth tank.
There is a variant with a 1x57mm gun, which is much more promising.

[voyaka uh]

It's hard to say ... An increase in caliber leads to a doubling of the projectile length and a sharp reduction in ammunition.

[Grits]

Quote: voyaka uh

A mortar is more useful in a city than a grenade launcher. To throw mines over houses to neighboring streets.

I completely agree with you. Therefore, this is not a tank for battles in the city.

[Doliva63]

Quote: voyaka uh

A mortar is more useful in a city than a grenade launcher. To throw mines over houses to neighboring streets.

You didn't serve in the SA? Let me explain - the infantry battalion, on the basis of which assault groups are formed for battle in the city, has a whole mortar battery of awesome caliber. Why reinvent the wheel?

[Doliva63]

Quote: Flood

So in which version is the BMPT ordered?
Without automatic grenade launchers?
The crew is three people?

And they have already been adopted, or what? Or so, ordered a ride?

[rocket757]

In the German press, the BMPT "Terminator" was called "Putin's tank for street fighting"

And what is wrong here?
If necessary, it fits well into battle tactics, you can / should do it.

[cniza]

They are hinting at suppressing the protests ... Greetings!

[rocket757]

Welcome
It is not difficult to guess what their media mean ... but the military is watching them and shaking them off if they have left those who have something to do with ... however, there, after all, "maidens" with facial hair do not shock anyone

[cniza]

In, in the near future, beards and mustaches will be forbidden to be called that, I'm afraid to even guess what they will call them ...

[rocket757]

How, how, they will call ... tolerant!
The Western, liberal world is not childish ... what will happen in the end, I don't even want to imagine.

[cniza]

The whole world has gone crazy, it won't end well ...

[rocket757]

Only a part of the world has lost money, and not the largest ... unfortunately, the disease is very contagious, and they strive to bite!

[cniza]

It is far from the biggest, but they are at the top of the "food chain" and are trying to impose on everyone ...

[rocket757]

Just disagreeing with those who seized, arrogated to themselves the right to sit at the very top ... is not enough. Your right must be won back and protected!

[cniza]

Everyone was turned into walking stomachs and forced to think only about how to fill it ...

[rocket757]

Abundance, excesses give rise to dependency.

[cniza]

The fun times have arrived, but soon they will hit the wall, what's next?

[rocket757]

And then ... the printing press will rustle, WITHOUT STOP !!!

[cniza]

Unfortunately, the machine will not help, but will only aggravate the situation ...

[rocket757]

But who can explain this ??? the dependent wants now, and not later, when the best times come ... let alone offer him to work, earn, no, no, no, he doesn't want to hear about that.

[Konnick]

It will fit into battle tactics after tests with small arms fire from close distances. It is unlikely that his attachments, sights and sensors will retain their functions, and urban combat presupposes precisely close combat.

[rocket757]

Street fight ... bullets, shrapnel, grenades from either side.
However, the tactics of street battles have been developed and tested for a long time ... something fundamentally different will appear when unmanned, compact, highly destructive equipment begins to replace the soldiers of the assault units.
Not tomorrow this will happen, until there are two ways ... either to level everything to zero, or to storm.

[Doliva63]

Quote: rocket757

In the German press, the BMPT "Terminator" was called "Putin's tank for street fighting"

And what is wrong here?
If necessary, it fits well into battle tactics, you can / should do it.

Where does this fit in, I wonder? Yes, it does not fit anywhere, except for the profit of UVZ.

[rocket757]

As always ... if we do not see something, it does not mean that the "gopher" is not there!

[Doliva63]

Quote: rocket757

As always ... if we do not see something, it does not mean that the "gopher" is not there!

But we are military men, aren't we? What do we not see here? We see absolutely unnecessary garbage that UVZ is pushing the army. Better be puzzled by the connection. Each soldier had a walkie-talkie glued to his cheek. Hands free, and the radio is working. Constantly. It was in the SA, almost half a century ago. Do you know how cool it is to hear every turn of the head of the personnel, which is a dozen kilometers away from you?

[rocket757]

Quote: Doliva63

But we are military men, aren't we?

Who was taught what ... the general military topic, for me, to read in books, to look from the outside.
By the way, I'm not trying to evaluate what is not an expert ...

[Doliva63]

Quote: rocket757

Quote: Doliva63

But we are military men, aren't we?

Who was taught what ... the general military topic, for me, to read in books, to look from the outside.
By the way, I'm not trying to evaluate what is not an expert ...

Here I was a little lucky - there are no more combined arms units than intelligence. Well, you just have to know everything, be friends with everyone, and work in the interests of everyone. And by education - a tanker, you can't go anywhere. If tanks break through, they are assigned infantry. Without her, nothing at all. The infantry and air (from helicopters) will cover, and the anti-tank defense system will extinguish it as best it can. She will also clean the trenches (and so on). And what will the BMPT say? Nothing. Its ATGMs and guns are in the BMP. Plus, there is still a crowd of people in the BMP, incl. with RPGs and MANPADS.
When tanks are attached to the infantry - the same garbage, but a side view, but it happens much more often. That is, tanks are attached to the solution of infantry missions. And there everything is already "captured" - an infantry battalion, to which a tank company is attached, has its own anti-tank missile defense, air defense and artillery mobile assets - how will this replace the BMPT? No way. You can say that it will simply enhance, but the best reinforcement is regimental and divisional artillery, which works in the interests of the SME to which you are assigned. Why is this chukhnya in the army? I do not understand. It makes no sense.

[rocket757]

I don’t know, I don’t argue, let the experts decide ...
There is an opinion / statement that there is no extra firepower on the battlefield ...

[Doliva63]

Quote: rocket757

I don’t know, I don’t argue, let the experts decide ...
There is an opinion / statement that there is no extra firepower on the battlefield ...

Of course, but the battlefield is not a front yard. Strangers do not go here. So if you need additional power - improve / strengthen the regular means, business,

[IGOR GORDEEV]

Tank Merkel or tank Biden for democratization around the world - in my opinion does not sound bad.

[bad]

Quote: IGOR GORDEEV

Merkel tank or Biden tank for democratization

Tank Merkel, by definition, should be pink

[NDR-791]

Tank Merkel, by definition, should be pink
Pink is for Tikhanovskaya. And so you can't get enough flowers on them ... to everyone's grave.

[unhappy]

Which flowers? Pegs ...

[Piramidon]

Quote: NDR-791

Pink is for Tikhanovskaya

It will be fat. It did not grow to tanks. Its maximum is a saucepan.

[NDR-791]

But does he dream? Not about a tank, but about an armored car ... pink ... with rhinestones.
We do not mind

[APASUS]

Information war in action, what else can you say.

[Narak-zempo]

In the German press, the BMPT "Terminator" was called "Putin's tank for street fighting"

Let them know that when we light up again in Berlin, they will not be able to shoot our tanks from the upper floors with impunity.

[Egoza]

And why did the Germans become "uncomfortable"? I drive peacefully, I don't bite anyone, I stop in front of a red traffic light

[The leader of the Redskins]

And even on a "German" (Mercedes, BMW, Volks, Audi)

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Egoza

I am driving peacefully, I do not cling to anyone, I stop in front of a red traffic light

And the tram behind it is quietly standing, does not ring, private cars do not cross the road, although we neither kick nor track at the red one, that is, the tip of the trunk at the traffic light froze and only roared at yellow.

© M. Zhvanetsky

[cniza]

The first batch of new combat vehicles was delivered to the 1st Guards Tank Army of the Western Military District. The re-equipment of this army, aimed at the western direction, is causing concern in Europe, the author writes.

What do you want ? What was the German Minister of Defense babbling, so ask her ...

[rocket757]

Quote: cniza

What was the German Minister of Defense babbling, so ask her ...

Ha, ha, just ask that minister ... there, foaming at the mouth, they will begin to prove such nonsense that oh, don't.

[cniza]

So let them show their nonsense to the end ...

[rocket757]

You won't be able to hear anything new ... in general, you can send them ... by.

[cniza]

So they have already been sent many times, they do not understand, they can immediately indicate the address ...

[rocket757]

Quote: cniza

can immediately indicate the address ..

Without a big kick, they cannot be guided along the correct route.

[cniza]

So the time is coming for the next kick, it seems they won't understand words ...

[yuriy55]

In the German press, the BMPT "Terminator" was called "Putin's tank for street fighting"

The technique is good, necessary, in some cases, simply necessary ...
The title of the publication is provocative, “smelly” ... A lot of good things in the country are in no way connected with the names of current politicians. The names of the designers and developers are important here.
And, in general, it is not the German mind that the Russian soldiers will call the BMPT.

[Ros 56]

Well, as you Germans wanted, the lessons of the Second World War have been studied, it's enough to just substitute the soldiers for bullets, although there is no war without losses.

[Grits]

I'm not a big specialist in armored vehicles, but I will try to express my opinion. to call "Terminator" a tank for battles in the city is the height of stupidity. It is just for field battles in conjunction with a tank.
In my opinion, a tank for a battle in a city should be armed a little differently.
- Low ballistics assault gun - large caliber shorty with high-explosive shells.
- Machine gun
- cannon 23 or 30 mm. One is enough, but always with a large angle for working on the upper floors.
- AGS (even one is enough)
- A small mortar like on "Berezhka".
The rest is superfluous. Well, the dump is in front for clearing debris.

[A1845]

Quote: Gritsa

It is just for field battles in conjunction with a tank.

perhaps not even with a tank, but with something like heavy armored personnel carriers, because why does the tank need ATGM assistance? And for a 30-mm machine gun, such a platform is clearly redundant IMHO.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Yeah. For Kishenev. Or for Bucharest .. How it goes ...

[Cowbra]

Tell us about the Israeli Panzerwaffe:

#Israeli Female Tankers!!!
in reality!!!# Israel #fail #ARMY pic.twitter.com/AlxjOP0Elg

- Sukhoi Su-57 Felon

[Nikolaevich I]

Well, I have already spoken out that BMPT should be of 2 types: 1. for operations in the city (not only to support tanks; but also "infantry" (assault groups); 2. to support tanks (motorized infantry units) in the operational space ... (collective protection from helicopters, attack UAVs, anti-tank ammunition ... Destruction of anti-tank ambushes at a distance of up to 10 km and more ...) Hence, BMPT of 2 types should be consolidated into separate battalions in tank brigades, divisions ... They should be assigned to tank (and not only tank ...) units, depending on one or another need. BMPT in the existing "form", I think, is not what you really need ...

[A1845]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

collective defense against helicopters, attack UAVs, anti-tank ammunition ... Destruction of anti-tank ambushes at a distance of up to 10 km and more.

this list does not in any way resemble a terminator that has no analogues in the world

[Leonek16]

In Berlin

[tralflot1832]

The terminators were created to bring the dome of the Reichstag to the model of May 1945. In the 90s, the miracle of the shipyard in Stralsund booted with the workers. At the word "ocupant" such a tirade broke out in pure German, with a Sochi Murmansk accent that the Germans switched to the word "defender" in purely Russian ...

[Serg Murchikola]

PROTECT Alchevsk LPR Pavlova lane and Moskovskaya from "raptors"

[Nikolaevich I]

Putin's tank ... Well, what about without Putin !? Putin is everywhere and everywhere! As soon as I hear: Putin! - I just want to sing!

[Konnick]

Quote: Gritsa

AGS (even one is enough)
- A small mortar like on "Berezhka"

If we had developed an AGS with a large elevation angle and with a remote crane, like a 50 mm mortar, it would have turned out to be a weapon capable of covering the enemy with fire behind buildings even at short distances, and even if remote detonation was used, it would be an ideal weapon for "street" fight.

[iouris]

... for street fighting in Berlin?

[3danimal]

I am glad that the designers have guessed to cover vulnerable ATGMs with protection. Despite the fact that the solution is by no means New:

[parkello]

he would need a copter in case of an ambush on the upper floors. in my opinion.

[Ilya_Nsk]

The funny thing about this thing is that, unlike tanks, on a narrow street it calmly turns the warhead 360 ° - the cannons do not protrude beyond the side and can shoot almost at the zenith

[kutuz]

"for street fighting" - only a schizophrenic can travel to the city on this clunker.

[tank64rus]

They have already intimidated themselves with Armata and BMPT. One car is not yet in the series, the second is an experimental series, just begun, and the fear is already over thousands. Comrades have shrunk Europe.