Military Review

US press: Su-35 is Russia's main air superiority fighter

171
US press: Su-35 is Russia's main air superiority fighter

The Russian Su-35 fighter is the main aircraft for gaining air superiority. Flanker-E does not lag behind the main Western fourth-generation fighters and is inferior to American fifth-generation aircraft. The American edition of The National Interest writes about this.


According to the author of an article published in an American magazine, the Russian Su-35 fighter is the main aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces for gaining air superiority and will remain so until a significant number of serial Su-57s enter the troops. The aircraft has unsurpassed maneuverability, and armament does not lag behind Western models such as the F-15 Eagle. The fighter is a rather formidable opponent for the F-15, Eurofighter and Rafale, but is inferior to the F-22 and F-35.

The Su-35 fighter is a further development of the Su-27 and is currently the most advanced in the Flanker family. Engines with controlled thrust vector provide it with high maneuverability and speed of Mach 2,25, as well as a ceiling of 20 thousand meters. The aircraft has a range of 3 km, and with additional tanks - 600 km.

The Su-35 glider does not have stealth technology, but the modified air intakes and cockpit canopy, as well as the radio-absorbing coating, have significantly reduced the aircraft's effective reflective surface compared to its predecessors.

The fighter has 12 to 14 weapons suspension nodes, which allows it to carry a large combat load, significantly exceeding that of many Western fighters, including the F-22 and F-35. The aircraft's armament includes long-range aviation missiles, medium and short range missiles. In addition, the Su-35 is armed with a 30-millimeter cannon with 150 rounds of ammunition to conduct aerial combat or attack from low level flight.

The fighter is equipped with an electronic warfare system "Khibiny", a radar with a passive phased antenna array N035 "Irbis", as well as an optical locating station OLS-35 with a declared range of 80 kilometers, which can pose a serious threat to stealth fighters.

In terms of its characteristics, the Su-35 is not inferior to the best Western fourth-generation fighters, but in the case of the F-22 and F-35, high maneuverability and armament may not help it, since they are difficult to detect at long distances. At the same time, American fighters can strike while in invisibility.

Su-35 may be the best air combat aircraft of all history and an excellent means of delivering missiles to the target - but will it have enough characteristics to be called a fighter for gaining air superiority in the age of stealth technology? This question is still unanswered

- summarizes the author.
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  1. lucul
    lucul 2 January 2021 16: 18
    +6
    US press: Su-35 is Russia's main air superiority fighter

    Hmm ...
    But it was only necessary to supply the S-400 to Turkey for the amers to open their eyes)))
    1. Borik
      Borik 2 January 2021 16: 27
      +20
      Painfully they praise their F-22 and F-35, just super-duper fighters are invincible and invulnerable. But only a combat clash in real air combat can judge which fighter actually deserves to be called the best.
      1. Mitroha
        Mitroha 2 January 2021 17: 04
        +6
        Hopefully it won't happen in the near future. At least between the Russian Aerospace Forces and Airforce USA
      2. figwam
        figwam 2 January 2021 17: 25
        -4
        The Su-35 glider does not have stealth technology, but the modified air intakes and cockpit canopy, as well as the radio-absorbing coating, have significantly reduced the aircraft's effective reflective surface compared to its predecessors.

        Well, the coated lantern is understandable, maybe they put a radio-absorbing grille in the air intakes, for example, but is there a radio-absorbing coating on the fuselage?
        1. Giant thought
          Giant thought 2 January 2021 18: 00
          +20
          All the vaunted invisibility of American stealth aircraft is just publicity. In order to maintain their invisibility, these aircraft must fly in complete radio silence, and the AWAC must aim them at targets, which will patrol at a safe distance for it from our S-300 and S-400, because when the onboard radars F-35 and F- 22 their invisibility disappears completely, i.e. they lose their advantage all at once. Another important factor is the presence of our long-range radars, which detect these invisibles when they fly along the borders of Iran, therefore, first of all, there will be interaction between our videoconferencing and radio technical services. Americans are well aware of this and modestly leave these things in their articles without publicity. What shy ones!
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 2 January 2021 19: 01
            +11
            If our aircraft is inferior to the 5th generation aircraft in all respects, then why in Syria these vaunted fuchiks fled to Israel to hide as blown up, with the mere appearance of the 35th on the radio horizon, even with AWACS, even without them ... laughing ?
            No, of course, a meeting of dryers and fushek in battle will definitely take place, but the shame of this meeting from the Air Force of the armies of the whole world, the Americans will have to drink dry.
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 3 January 2021 13: 58
              +6
              Quote: hydrox
              the meeting of dryers and fushek in battle will certainly take place, but the shame of this meeting from the Air Force of the armies of the whole world, the Americans will have to drink dry.

              At the same time, it is very important that a professional, preferably of Slavic nationality, trained in the Lipetsk Combat Use Center, and not an Arab, who, seeing the pulsating display and hearing the voice of "Natasha" of the aircraft radiation warning system, is not reaching for the Tibetan tumbler ", and to the lever of the K-36 catapult ...
              The "gasket" between the control handle and the Dryer is, well, very important in this case! And "invisibility" is a bogey only until the beginning of an air battle ...
              AHA.
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 3 January 2021 16: 45
                +1
                I fully agree with you, otherwise in this virtual world any oppa is trying to close up like a nightingale, even without sitting next to the Slavs! laughing
              2. Klingon
                Klingon 4 January 2021 20: 06
                0
                about the Slavic nationality you went too far. Magomed Tolboyev, for example, an Avar, and how did this affect his professionalism ??
                and the voice of the flight interpreter is not called Natasha, as far as I remember, but Rita wassat
          2. venik
            venik 2 January 2021 19: 37
            +19
            Quote: Thought Giant
            All the vaunted invisibility of American stealth aircraft is just publicity.

            =======
            good In general, no "invisibility"does not exist a priori! From the word AT ALL! There is"stealth", ie a set of measures to reduce the RCS of the object. This is of course an important factor, increasing efficiency combat use of an aircraft, ship, etc., but by no means a "panacea for all ills"! In addition, such a component of reducing the radar signature, such as radio-absorbing coatings, simply cannot be effective. in all radio frequency ranges. And in this way it is created in such a way that the maximum absorption falls on the most common for modern airborne radar ranges! For frequencies beyond the maximum of the absorption spectrum, then the entire "absorbing coating" is converted ...... "Trousers are converted ..... Sorry for the little technical problem! ..."

            The same applies to air defense, where radars operate in the widest range: from meter to millimeter range.
            Well, about the fact that ANY subtle the object instantly turns very even perceptible when you turn on your own radar - you, Peter, have already written! drinks
            PS "Stealth" -technology underestimate of course not, but overestimate - also! hi
            Happy New Year!
            1. Andrey.AN
              Andrey.AN 2 January 2021 22: 06
              +3
              The indisputable quality of the fifth generation stealth is the secrecy from the observer of the weapons potential, although the potential is not shy on the Sushka suspension nodes, but still, it does not interfere with peeping with what the probable enemy dissects, although the defensive doctrine does not seem to plan preventive strikes.
          3. Grits
            Grits 3 January 2021 08: 56
            +1
            Quote: Thought Giant
            In order to maintain their invisibility, these aircraft must fly in complete radio silence, and the AWAC must aim them at targets, which will patrol at a safe distance for it from our S-300 and S-400, because when the onboard radars F-35 and F- 22 their invisibility disappears completely, i.e. they lose their advantage once

            And you also need to open the missile compartments in order to launch. This also means giving a signal - "hello ... I'm here"
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 3 January 2021 14: 05
              +4
              Quote: Gritsa
              And you also need to open the missile compartments in order to launch. This also means giving a signal - "hello ... I'm here"

              This is exactly how the Serbs of the American Goblin have filled up. Even the old 125 system was able to remove the F-117, it was worth it to increase its RCS by opening the doors of the weapons compartment. yes
      3. iouris
        iouris 2 January 2021 19: 39
        +2
        Quote: Borik
        only a combat clash in real air combat can judge which fighter actually deserves to be called the best.

        Golden words and spoken in time! Well...
      4. Pereira
        Pereira 2 January 2021 19: 49
        +4
        When that kind of money is on the line, of course you will be lost.
    2. zenion
      zenion 2 January 2021 19: 34
      +12
      Even if the Su-35 hits the F-35, it will not count. It will be an accidental shoot-down, even after ten Fakov-35s. Only the 99th American plane will be considered downed, and XNUMX will not!
      1. venik
        venik 2 January 2021 22: 17
        +7
        Quote: zenion
        Only the 99th American plane will be considered downed, and XNUMX will not!

        =========
        good What - yes, then YES! The Yankees are always like this: If they help someone (usually a much weaker one), they begin to boast: "this is natural, it should be", and if they themselves" on the face "ogrebut - so immediately and yell:"It does not count!"..... What to do - megalomania, However.... request
    3. Vladislav_2
      Vladislav_2 3 January 2021 21: 16
      +1
      why such confidence in fu-22 and fu-z5 !? wassat .... these items did not collide in the air! and write nonsense about what is not known about our performance characteristics (only guesses and conjectures) that the amers' "birds" are cooler ..... well, the USA love themselves laughing
  2. kventinasd
    kventinasd 2 January 2021 16: 23
    +14
    The Russian Su-35 fighter is the main aircraft for gaining air superiority. Flanker-E not lagging behind from the main western fourth generation fighters

    Not lagging behind? He surpasses them many times. What Western 4th generation fighter can rival the 35th in the air? And the fifth generation also does not really shine.
    1. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 2 January 2021 17: 01
      -8
      In what way is the Su-35 superior to the F-22/35?
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 2 January 2021 18: 47
        +7
        Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
        In what way is the Su-35 superior to the F-22/35?

        Do not read periodicals?
        Total: two minuses due to the lack of modernization against one big flying minus, even if invisible to airborne radar. In my opinion, the choice is obvious. Two American F-35 can go against one Su-35 and not go out winners.

        https://topwar.ru/107765-sravnenie-rossiyskogo-su-35-i-amerikanskogo-f-35-lightning-ii.html
        When comparing fighters in a single confrontation against each other, the Su-35 wins. The purpose of the F-35 is to bombard and detect the enemy in advance. This allows the aircraft to counter existing threats with maximum efficiency, calling in reinforcements or retreating if necessary.

        https://yandex.ru/turbo/samoletos.ru/s/samolety/su-35-protiv-f-35
        1. Ratmir_Ryazan
          Ratmir_Ryazan 3 January 2021 20: 39
          -5
          It is necessary to compare not directly a single F-35 against the Su-35, in terms of performance characteristics, but the tactics of their use.

          So, the United States will not send the F-35 to intercept the Su-35 alone, they will spot our Su-35 with an AWACS aircraft from a distance of 400 km or other fighters from a long range, drop the data on the F-35, which, according to these data, will launch a missile from the invisibility zone for our aircraft without using your radar and without detecting yourself.

          So, 2 F-35s are likely to come out victorious against two Su-35s. One will quickly detect our Su-35s, and the other will launch missiles at them.

          This is how they shot down most of the MiG-29 aircraft in Yugoslavia.

          In the best case, our Su-35 will be able to detect a missile attack and try to get away from it, but it will always be a withdrawal from the battle and refusal to complete the mission (just like with the Su-30 in India) and it will not always work out.

          So, shouting about the huge superiority of the Su-35 and the powerless F-35 is definitely not worth it.

          When was the last time Soviet / Russian fighters showed / proved their superiority over American ones?

          That's about it.
      2. El Chuvachino
        El Chuvachino 2 January 2021 18: 55
        +13
        Reliability, a wider range of weapons and the number of missiles, the presence of an OLS, the presence of two engines, speed parameters, an all-aspect OVT, price / performance ratio.
      3. Grits
        Grits 3 January 2021 09: 00
        +3
        Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
        In what way is the Su-35 superior to the F-22/35?

        Well, for example, in maneuverability. And in speed. And most importantly, in what it is much inferior - in price.
        1. Ratmir_Ryazan
          Ratmir_Ryazan 3 January 2021 20: 45
          -5
          The Americans will make more F-80 aircraft at 35 million dollars apiece than we do at 50 million dollars for the Su-35.

          The speed and maneuverability will give the Su-35 a chance to evade a missile attack under favorable conditions, but the first to detect and attack the F-35 will most likely fail.

          They will see our entire sky with AWACS planes, and the F-35, without turning on its radar and will not detect itself, will simply launch missiles at our planes.

          How do we respond?

          Our Su-30s in India could not overwhelm the F-16 of Pakistan, so why did you decide that the alignment of the Su-35 versus the F-35 would be different?
          1. Hexenmeister
            Hexenmeister 3 January 2021 21: 16
            +1
            And where did you get the idea that AWACS will be able to detect something, or rather who will give it to them?
            Where did you get the idea that these rotating mushrooms will be able to determine the coordinates of targets with the required accuracy and the required pace required to launch a V-V rocket into a fucking cloud of tens of kilometers from another moving board, and even without specifying the position of the target from the fighter's radar?
            What will you do with the procedure for transmitting radicorrection signals, which in itself is a significant unmasking factor, and where did you get the idea that rotating mushrooms can do this?
            And most likely, the rotating mushrooms will help in some way, but others, supposedly hidden, will have to turn on their radars, look for targets, transmit radicorrections.
            1. Ratmir_Ryazan
              Ratmir_Ryazan 3 January 2021 21: 56
              -3
              Well, of course, the Americans are "stupid", they do not know why they need AWACS planes, and if they figure it out, we will ban them.

              How interesting?

              Probably a "bunch" of our MiG-31s, flying in from the airfield plowed by Tomahawks, will shoot them down with R-37M missiles.

              And the Americans learned long ago to transfer the data to the fighter and launch the missile at the target.

              So, to shout about the total superiority of the Su-35 over the F-35 is clearly not worth it.

              It is not the performance characteristics of some weapon that wins, but the tactics of its use.
              1. Hexenmeister
                Hexenmeister 3 January 2021 22: 57
                +4
                You are a strange person ... The meaning of your message was that the F-35 will fight as part of the system, and when I opposed this system with another system, in which, in particular, there would be normal electronic warfare systems, some kind of baby talk, and instead of discussing systemic issues, there were particulars about the MiG-31, some missiles and other nonsense and fairy tales. Therefore, it seems to me that you do not know systemic issues either, and that you are not strong in terms of the characteristics of individual fighter systems.
                1. Lara Croft
                  Lara Croft 3 January 2021 23: 06
                  +1
                  Quote: Hexenmeister
                  You are a strange person ... it seems to me that you do not know systemic issues either, and that you are not strong in terms of the characteristics of individual fighter systems.

                  He's here on a procedural issue ... is furious that the box office will only open for a week ...
              2. Dread
                Dread 4 January 2021 04: 41
                -4
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                So, to shout about the total superiority of the Su-35 over the F-35 is clearly not worth it.

                In the first place is the aircraft armament, and then the tactics of its use, and not vice versa. Airborne radar Н035 "Irbis" surpasses airborne radars in detection range
                F-22 and F-35, and air-to-air missile
                R-37M (D = 300 km) is superior in range to the longest-range air-to-air missile
                AIM-120 (D = 180 km).
          2. Charik
            Charik 3 January 2021 22: 14
            -1
            Are your Su30 in India? I wonder if your pilots are also on them?
            1. Ratmir_Ryazan
              Ratmir_Ryazan 3 January 2021 22: 16
              -1
              Indian pilots.
              1. Charik
                Charik 3 January 2021 22: 37
                -1
                That would be the Belarusians on their Su30 with a French admixture with someone from NATO spent an uchboy - with the Poles - they have F16 or even with the Hindu Rafals - although the Indians themselves, I think the Su30 will try against their new Rafals
      4. Charik
        Charik 3 January 2021 15: 56
        +1
        Speed, maneuverability, possibly by the amount of ammunition on board, fuel supply, and the ability to use missiles not only V-V but also V-Z
      5. Dread
        Dread 4 January 2021 04: 23
        -4
        Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
        In what way is the Su-35 superior to the F-22/35?

        The Su-35S is superior to the F-22 and F-35 in radar detection range.
        The radar station on board the Su-35S N035 "Irbis" detects targets with EPR = 3 sq. m at a distance D = 400 km, and the radar on board the F-22 AN / APG-77 and the radar on board
        F-35 AN / APG-81 targets with EPR = 3 sq. m at a distance D = 300 kmAnd this is all without taking into account the direct range equation.
  3. gridasov
    gridasov 2 January 2021 16: 30
    +2
    Now we need tehnol
    Leads of advanced development.
    1. Pereira
      Pereira 2 January 2021 19: 53
      +2
      My advanced ideas are not perceived on the site. But I'll tell you anyway.
      Victory strategy - radar stations with combined with a wide range, capable of detecting aircraft of any degree of visibility + stationary airships carrying 200-500 long-range B-B missiles.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 2 January 2021 20: 20
        +2
        Well, don't despair! Breakthrough ideas are very difficult to implement, so you need to be prepared for a lengthy process. We also promoted our projects. True at a fundamental level with new devices of the element base.
      2. O. Bender
        O. Bender 2 January 2021 23: 35
        0
        Colleague, I completely agree, an airship or aero has become on a rope, with a powerful radar, others with weapons in ... in, may well become part of an air defense system. Inexpensive and effective. To knock down a static object in the air is not an easy task. How much will the detection range increase. when the radar is raised to 5000m, I think it is not necessary to speak. Just a balloon is a consumable, if of course it is landed. But a hundred such percussion units with weapons on board, plus a dozen with radars, will certainly be an inexpensive and effective means of complementing the air defense system
        ,
      3. Kerensky
        Kerensky 3 January 2021 08: 41
        +1
        stationary airships carrying 200-500 long-range V-B missiles.

        In the modern scenario, it is quite relevant. With modern materials and technologies, airships have the right to rebirth ...
      4. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 3 January 2021 14: 30
        +1
        Quote: Pereira
        My advanced ideas are not perceived on the site.

        Why not? We also have fantasy lovers!
        And they are not perceived because it is worth picking up a pencil (calculator) and estimating weights and volumes - and the absurdity of your fantasies becomes immediately clear. Examples? - Yes, pzhlsta! A long-range explosive missile weighs at least 1000-1200 kg, multiply by 200 (500!) And get ... And this is without radar and other OMS equipment! Now imagine the VOLUME of an airship handola to lift 1000 tons of weight !!!
  4. anjey
    anjey 2 January 2021 16: 31
    +10
    Fighters of the latest generations, super-duper weapons are all good and progressive, but they often forget that the main thing is the people, with their potential, character and motivations, who control these modern weapons ..
    1. Mishanya74_2
      Mishanya74_2 2 January 2021 16: 38
      -19%
      Are you developing a new theory of racial superiority?
      1. lucul
        lucul 2 January 2021 16: 48
        +4
        Are you developing a new theory of racial superiority?

        "Who is talking about what - but lousy about the bathhouse")))
        1. Pereira
          Pereira 2 January 2021 19: 55
          +1
          Here you are ironic, but life shows that it is time.
      2. gridasov
        gridasov 2 January 2021 17: 08
        +2
        This is more precisely intellectual superiority. But not everyone understands what the essence of the concept of intelligence is.
        1. lucul
          lucul 2 January 2021 20: 59
          +3
          This is more precisely intellectual superiority. But not everyone understands what the essence of the concept of intelligence is.

          Oh, greetings, Happy New Year, you haven't been seen for a long time.
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 2 January 2021 22: 39
            +3
            Thank you ! Mutually! All health and peace of mind
      3. Revolver
        Revolver 2 January 2021 23: 07
        +3
        Quote: Mishanya74_2
        Are you developing a new theory of racial superiority?

        Sherman M4, even all modernized, to T-55, let alone 62, does not hold out. But in 1973, the Jews in the M4 went against the Arabs in the T-55/62, and won. So the skill and attitude of people means not so little.
    2. Mitroha
      Mitroha 2 January 2021 17: 06
      +10
      Quote: anjey
      Fighters of the latest generations, super-duper weapons are all good and progressive, but they often forget that the main thing is the people, with their potential, character and motivations, who control these modern weapons ..

      Everyone forgets that the miracle fighters are knocked out in the first decade of a full-scale war, and then ... Everything that the industry can rivet quickly and cheaply will go into battle.
      1. anjey
        anjey 2 January 2021 21: 26
        0
        Yes, at least what and how much rivet, do not forget about the Spirit of the People, which you cannot buy with some kind of Bubble and cannot be replaced by one highly paid professionalism, even if you change the system, but you don't need to artificially transform your people ... Russia.
        History confirms this. Profi pilots are also a people, you should not make a caste of supermen out of them, it will spoil them.
        1. Dread
          Dread 2 January 2021 22: 05
          +4
          Quote: Bez 310
          The main question - are the F-22 and F-35 really so "unobtrusive"?
          If this is true, then the Su-35 will be shot down before
          he will see enemy fighters.

          F-22 and F-35 (average RCS is 0 - 3 sq. M) will be detected by the N0,4 Irbis airborne radar at a distance of ~ 035 km and then destroyed by an R-224M air-to-air missile with a range of D = 37 km (not to be confused with R-300), never reaching the launch line of its longest-range air-to-air missile AIM-37 with a range of D = 120 km. The launch of the R-180M rocket from the Su-37S was shown last year.
        2. Mitroha
          Mitroha 3 January 2021 09: 05
          0
          Nothing can spoil real people, and g .. but spoiled from the beginning.
  5. Thrifty
    Thrifty 2 January 2021 16: 52
    +5
    In each article, the Yankees are trying to impose on the world their imaginary superiority in weapons, and their own worldview of thugs and a planetary lesson. ..
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. Bez 310
    Bez 310 2 January 2021 17: 06
    -3
    The main question - are the F-22 and F-35 really so "unobtrusive"?
    If this is true, then the Su-35 will be shot down before
    he will see enemy fighters. And if it's mostly
    advertising, then the Su-35 will be able to compete on an equal footing.
    1. Cutter
      Cutter 2 January 2021 17: 18
      -4
      22 and F-35. The armament of the aircraft

      SO they contradict themselves ... Patients ...
    2. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 2 January 2021 17: 27
      +3
      NATO group tactics are not about dueling. They will crush by numerical superiority, with the widespread use of AWACS and electronic warfare aircraft.
      Any comparisons "once at a time" are meaningless.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 2 January 2021 18: 09
        +7
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        They will crush by numerical superiority, with the widespread use of AWACS and electronic warfare aircraft.


        You don't even need to think about it, because this means that we are already talking about a war with the use of tactical nuclear weapons, and special warheads have worked at each other's air bases, and again we will talk about quite duel situations.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 2 January 2021 18: 29
          -3
          Is not a fact. A non-nuclear war with Turkey can be imagined. More precisely, it is inevitable, a matter of scale. In the Middle East, the Black Sea region and the Caucasus. Without direct NATO intervention.
          The use of nuclear weapons in this case is redundant
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 2 January 2021 18: 33
            +6
            Here in this interpretation, I undoubtedly agree with you. There will be a purely local war with extremely limited goals, but in this case, there will be no talk of "They will crush by numerical superiority, with the widespread use of AWACS and EW aircraft." (Type C.)
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 2 January 2021 18: 45
              -8
              The Turks have enough AWACS and electronic warfare aircraft of their own. NATO infoy will help 100%.
              The Turks have already used them in Syria, Libya, NKR. By the way, this also explains the large losses of UAVs in Libya. The Turks could not fully work AWACS and EW in that region. Unlike Syria and NKR, where they could work from their own territory and an ally.
              1. El Chuvachino
                El Chuvachino 2 January 2021 19: 08
                +4
                Is 4 AWACS enough?
              2. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 2 January 2021 19: 18
                +4
                Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                AWACS and electronic warfare of their own enough.


                Well, you would have looked through the Balance before claiming something.

                I personally see 2 RTR aircraft, 4 AWACS aircraft and 7 ancient tankers. How to compare with the Russian Air Force?

                Unlike Syria and NKR, where they could work from their own territory and an ally.

                In my opinion, the usefulness of the participation of the Turkish Avaks directly in that concert was minimal. I'm talking about NKAO.

                Now about the participation of RTR, EW and NATO AWACS aircraft in a hypothetical Russian-Turkish war. Of course they will help. But strongly from afar or not over the territory of Turkey. At best for them, they will hang out somewhere over Romania.
                1. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 2 January 2021 19: 46
                  -6
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  Well, you would have looked through the Balance before claiming something.

                  Where did you get it?
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  How to compare with the Russian Air Force?

                  We need to see how many of our air forces will be in that region. The country is large, all territories need to be protected.
                  Obviously, not all 9 A-50s and a couple of dozen electronic warfare (RER) aircraft will be deployed to the south.
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  2 RTR aircraft, 4 AWACS aircraft and 7 ancient tankers

                  This is without taking into account AWACS and electronic warfare aircraft of NATO countries in Turkey and in adjacent territories. There is an order for 4 Bombardier Global 6000 aircraft in reconnaissance configuration. They are developing some AWACS / EW planes themselves, but they need comrades banned after the capture of Shushi laughing Most of the information is in Turkish, you can't figure it out.
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  In my opinion, the usefulness of the participation of the Turkish Avaks directly in that concert was minimal. I'm talking about NKAO.

                  Targeting the downed Su-25, the inability to use the Su-30. Detection and target designation of ground-based radars. Azerbaijan very actively used electronic warfare systems, but there is very little information about what exactly and how. 100% detected and suppressed radar and air defense radio command transmission systems, detected Armenian groups by cell phones, worked against our electronic warfare systems.
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 2 January 2021 21: 08
                    +2
                    In my e-mail I have the Military Balance from 1961 to 2019. The directory weighs 1.1 Gigabytes. If you need to post it on a file hosting service, it's not a problem. The only files there are not disassembled and renamed with regards to 1961 - 1964 ...

                    inability to use the Su-30.

                    To a bad dancer ..... (p.) Of course they could have used it, Moreover, if they have a complete one (with the Khibiny and a set of R-77 and R-73 missiles), then this is in the region of the wunderwaffe and in relation to the Turks too. There is no need to be carried on by the ravings of local illiterate Azerbaijanis, by the way, where did they disappear? The Turks don't even have 52 blocks. There are 30s, 40s, 50s, 50+ ... But then we enter the shaky area of ​​assumptions.

                    This is without taking into account AWACS and electronic warfare aircraft of NATO countries in Turkey and in adjacent territories.


                    In case of war, they will leave Turkish territory.

                    Obviously, not all 9 A-50s and a couple of dozen electronic warfare (RER) aircraft will be deployed to the south.


                    Not all. But this is aviation. IMHO in the event of such a conflict, 2/3 of the available forces will be deployed.

                    We need to see how many of our air forces will be in that region.

                    Let's count on our fingers
                    4 air army + Black Sea fleet.
                    31 GIAP (Millerovo) - 20 Su-30SM
                    3 GIAP (Krymsk) - 36 Su-27SM / Su-30M2.
                    559 BAP (Morozovsk) - 36 Su-34
                    368 ShAP (Budenovsk) - 36? Su-25
                    960 ShAP (Primorsko-Akhtarsk) - 32 Su-25
                    11 SAP (Marinovka) - 24 Su-24
                    37 ShAP - 12 Su-25, 12 Su-24
                    38 IAP - 33 Su-27sm / Su-27S / P / Su-30M2 / Su-27UB

                    43 OMSHAP - 12 Su-30SM, 12 Su-24
                    As a result, we have 4 VA and the Black Sea Fleet directly into the theater of operations has 102 multi-functional fighters, 36 Fighter-bombers (meaning the Su-34, to distinguish it from the Su-24), 48 front-line bombers and 72 attack aircraft.
                    Data from the website Milkavkaz.net (http://www.milkavkaz.com)
                    As we remember, the Turks have about 250 F-16s. The most modern 30 50's + and 33 50's. Let me remind the Jews have already begun to disable the 52nd blocks.
                    1. OgnennyiKotik
                      OgnennyiKotik 2 January 2021 21: 31
                      -2
                      Quote: Cyril G ...
                      The directory weighs 1.1 Gigabytes.

                      Thank you, but I'm afraid the tablet won't pull this, I'm not sitting here with a computer))
                      Quote: Cyril G ...
                      Azerbaijanis, by the way, where did they disappear ?. The Turks don't even have 52 blocks. There are 30s, 40s, 50s, 50+ ... But then we enter a shaky area of ​​assumptions.

                      After the capture of Shushi, many were banned, they rejoiced too violently.
                      The Turks are modernizing the F16, this year they promise to start installing their AFAR, they recently installed a new electronic warfare system on the 30th units, and so on. But here, yes, there are too many assumptions.
                      Quote: Cyril G ...
                      102 multi-functional fighters, 36 fighter-bombers (meaning the Su-34 to distinguish it from the Su-24), 48 front-line bombers and 72 attack aircraft.

                      + Air defense. I agree. Parity. It is clear why Erdogan wants his national air defense system so badly. All the more I am convinced that the sale of the С400 is a betrayal of Russia's interests.
                      1. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 2 January 2021 21: 49
                        +4
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        this year they promise to start putting their AFAR,

                        Well, in 15 years, they may receive such an airborne radar.

                        Thank you, but I'm afraid the tablet won't pull this, I'm not sitting here with a computer))

                        Tell me what you need specifically. As an option, I can drop it here - https://dropmefiles.com. Then pump it out ...

                        All the more I am convinced that the sale of the С400 is a betrayal of Russia's interests.


                        I previously described the differences between Osa-M and Osa-ME. There, even the number of combat letter frequencies differed several times, in addition, in general, the ME differed in a simplified PSA and in the whole SU. The same can be said about the export version of the S-400.
                      2. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 2 January 2021 22: 02
                        -2
                        Quote: Cyril G ...
                        Alternatively, I can drop it here - https://dropmefiles.com. Then pump it out ...

                        I would be grateful, in principle, the last years are only interesting to me.
                        Quote: Cyril G ...
                        Well, in 15 years, they may receive such an airborne radar.

                        They either borrowed technology from the British or the Korean. With the British, they are now in the gums.
                        Quote: Cyril G ...
                        differed in a simplified PSA and in the whole SU

                        In any case, this is the basis on which you can organize the development of your own. In Turkey, good engineers with Western education, access to the international labor market, Western and Eastern companies can help.
                      3. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 2 January 2021 22: 15
                        +1
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        In principle, the last years are only interesting to me.

                        The last 15 years? 677 megabytes. If we are talking about the last 10 years - 650 megabytes
                      4. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 2 January 2021 22: 20
                        -3
                        Yes, 10 is enough
                      5. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 2 January 2021 22: 36
                        +3
                        https://dropmefiles.com/e3sYX

                        Catch
                      6. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 3 January 2021 01: 06
                        -1
                        Saved big, downloaded.
                      7. Orkraider
                        Orkraider 3 January 2021 20: 30
                        +1
                        Quote: Cyril G ...
                        https://dropmefiles.com/e3sYX

                        Catch

                        Greetings !!!
                        hi
                        Thank you!
                        I will also join in downloading this link if you don't mind.
                      8. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 3 January 2021 20: 40
                        +1
                        Well, of course not. Please use it. If you need Balances from 1961 to 2010 write
          2. Revolver
            Revolver 3 January 2021 01: 28
            -1
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            + Air defense

            The Turks can (at least try) to overload air defense with a cloud of drones. And here the SAM operators have a dilemma. Either spend expensive S-400 or S-300 missiles on cheap Bayraktars, or wait for what will come from these Bayraktars. Both options are so-so. Hope for short-range air defense? So both "Wasps" and "Armor" proved themselves against the "Bayraktars" not in the best way. True, the Armenians had the "Wasps" old, not modernized, and the Arabs were sitting at the "Shell" consoles in Libya.
          3. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 3 January 2021 01: 44
            0
            Not yet. There will not be enough funds. There are about a hundred of these Bayraktars, it is not necessary to shoot down air defense systems, there are enough aircraft guns.
            True, they can be used as bait.
            Here is another question, the entire Black Sea coast of the Turks is in the affected area of ​​front-line aviation and OTRK from the Crimea and southern Russia. Huge losses will be inflicted, the Turks will not go to them. Istanbul and Ankara in the affected area. Our centers are not.
            On the other hand, we are losing the entire Black Sea Fleet and expeditionary forces in Syria, Armenia and Georgia. We will not go for this already.
            Until these threats are removed, there will be no major war. The balance of power is being respected. If one of the parties can change it, a war will start.
          4. Revolver
            Revolver 3 January 2021 06: 59
            -1
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            There are about a hundred of these Bayraktars, it is not necessary to shoot down air defense systems, there are enough aircraft guns.

            Yes, of course, for planes, fighters, or even attack aircraft, these drones will be very good as training targets. All that is needed is to ensure that aircraft are available at the right time in the right place.
          5. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 3 January 2021 09: 01
            +1
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            we are losing the entire Black Sea Fleet and expeditionary forces in Syria, Armenia and Georgia.


            For the group in Syria, the issue is extremely controversial. In a short-term war (in the region of a week), the suppression of supply lines will not affect. But the Turks will have to fight simultaneously on two fronts and with us and the Syrians. Of course, we don't count Armenians. There, they can really arrange an exterminatus, and Pashinyan, as you know, forbade changing the ancient MiGs in Eribuni even to SMT that are available (see Kursk) .... I will correct the naval unit - the fleets will rather be inactive - after suffering some losses. Both Turkish and ours. Well, shorter as usual.
        2. Radiator
          Radiator 3 January 2021 03: 31
          -3
          Unmanned trash is perfectly caught by all sorts of ZSU with automatic cannons. For - stupid trash. And, by the way, this rubbish is massively disabled by means of electronic warfare.
        3. Revolver
          Revolver 3 January 2021 06: 53
          0
          Quote: Radiator
          Unmanned trash is perfectly caught by all sorts of ZSU with automatic cannons. For - stupid trash. And, by the way, this rubbish is massively disabled by means of electronic warfare.

          Well, ask the Armenians how they got rid of this "stupid rubbish". But they had "Shilki", and "Wasps", and portable "Arrows" and "Needles".
        4. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 3 January 2021 09: 02
          +1
          Quote: Nagan
          "Shilki" were,


          I haven't seen anything ...
        5. Revolver
          Revolver 3 January 2021 11: 52
          -1
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          I haven't seen anything ...

          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Шилка_(ЗСУ)#Операторы
          As of 2016, they had an estimated 48 units. What did they do with them, and where did they go - you ask them.
        6. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 3 January 2021 12: 00
          -2
          There were shilki in NKR. Photo / video 2 damaged, 5 captured by Azerbaijan
          https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2020/09/the-fight-for-nagorno-karabakh.html

        7. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 3 January 2021 12: 08
          +1
          Interesting. That is, there was very little there for some reason .., by the way, like in Ukraine, there were found 16-18 cars, including monuments and manuals ..
        8. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 3 January 2021 12: 12
          -1
          Kicked up during the war years. There are constant clashes there. Shilka is a universal device, constantly at the forefront.
        9. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 3 January 2021 12: 13
          +1
          Not another point. There were so many of them, taking into account losses, etc.
  8. Radiator
    Radiator 3 January 2021 22: 10
    -2
    I asked the Armenians, they didn’t catch trash and don’t know how. You would have finished poking at Armenians, it’s ridiculous and sore.
    Where this rubbish flew, the Armenians drove only tanks and the infantry ran.
  9. Radiator
    Radiator 3 January 2021 22: 21
    -2
    ... And I have not seen something among the Armenians of electronic warfare against this rubbish.

    There is only one conclusion: another remedy against the "Zulus". It is not without reason that the Israelis love UAVs so much, everyone believes that only Arabs will have to be driven. But in vain. As soon as there are no Arabs, then all their "chariots", "umbrellas" and flying unmanned trash will become an anecdote.
  10. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 3 January 2021 08: 55
    +3
    Quote: Nagan
    and the "Pantsiri" proved themselves against the "Bayraktar" not in the best way.


    Can you prove this?
  11. Revolver
    Revolver 3 January 2021 11: 55
    -2
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    Quote: Nagan
    and the "Pantsiri" proved themselves against the "Bayraktar" not in the best way.


    Can you prove this?

    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5e184bafa1bb8700b26a3e2f/poiavilos-video-unichtojeniia-rossiiskogo-panciria-v-livii-5ec63aff9b4e1c1c260bc7a6
  12. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 3 January 2021 12: 04
    +2
    Yes?
    Then I recommend you Lost Armor from which it follows that the Turks in Idlib damaged 2 Pantsyr and according to rumors it was precisely that with artillery fire and then they were restored, the Jews - one Pantsyr destroyed, the second damaged. In Libya, it is reliably lost2! (Exactly two!) Armor. One was captured and taken away, the second was destroyed and burned in the hangar. Moreover, the Turks did not present anything similar to the shooting in Karabakh.
    Next, we turn to the second source - Aviation security network. From which it follows that in Libya the Turks reliably lost 10-12 Bayraktar with photo confirmation, while there were about 20 reports of their death. In Syria, 2 Anki and 2 Bayraktar were lost with photo confirmation, that is, reliably.
    About the Bayraktar raids on the Armor, which ended in defeating the Armor, it is somehow unknown.
  • hydrox
    hydrox 2 January 2021 19: 12
    +7
    This is a collective farm approach.
    Our DEFENSE doctrine directly states: Russia has the right to use TNW if the number of the enemy air attacking group exceeds the defensive capabilities of our air defense, and let NATO members choose their future for themselves in this case.
    1. Avior
      Avior 3 January 2021 02: 45
      -1
      If you mean the Military Doctrine, then there is no such thing.
      The first use of nuclear weapons is possible only if the existence of Russia as a state is threatened.
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 3 January 2021 08: 52
        +1
        From the high tribunes this has been said several times already, and only instructors cannot distinguish what is written from what MUST be read between the lines or have a good memory ...
        And from the textbook: if 3 hundred aircraft go to the state from dangerous directions, and at the same time a hundred ICBMs are launched, and 1000KR and Drones each - does this country have a chance to survive as a state?
        1. Avior
          Avior 3 January 2021 11: 07
          -1
          In the case of a nuclear attack, of course, we are talking about the use of nuclear weapons, in the case of a massive nuclear attack, strategic, not tactical.
          But you were the first to write about the application.
          There is nothing of the kind in the doctrine.
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 3 January 2021 16: 41
            0
            Be ashamed :: read the post carefully and you will see that not a word has been said about the "first". yes
            1. Avior
              Avior 3 January 2021 18: 14
              +1
              You have not written that the enemy attacks with the use of nuclear weapons - that means, the first
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 3 January 2021 20: 14
                0
                Quote: Avior
                You have not written that the enemy attacks with the use of nuclear weapons - that means, the first

                This is not even in the doctrine, so you are getting out ... lol
              2. max702
                max702 4 January 2021 10: 17
                +1
                Quote: hydrox
                Quote: Avior
                You have not written that the enemy attacks with the use of nuclear weapons - that means, the first

                This is not even in the doctrine, so you are getting out ... lol

                And here everything is simple, why do they think that Russia will play in airplane tanks, and not work with the whole spectrum of weapons and means, such as it does not pose a threat to the state, but why would it? Today, this conflict does not directly bear, but indirectly, especially its consequences in the form of losses, it even bears and it is calculated at times, respectively, and the decision will be made up to the strategic nuclear forces .. But in this case, all the arguments from the apologists of the wretchedness and backwardness of our country and the army crumble into dust ... if robbers are bursting into your apartment and you have a gun, you will shoot from it, and then think about the consequences, as it says, let twelve judge me than carry six ...
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 2 January 2021 18: 06
    +5
    Well, in general, that is, there is reason to believe that in the affected area of ​​the R-77 F-22 / F-35 will be quite visible to themselves.On the other hand, our visible deficiency in the Air Force is an obvious insufficient number of RTR aircraft, AWACS and tankers.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • bar
    bar 2 January 2021 17: 06
    +8
    Will it have enough characteristics to be called a fighter for air superiority in the age of stealth technology? This question is still unanswered

    I would put the question differently - is stealth enough to gain air superiority in the era of super-maneuverability technologies? No answer... recourse
    1. HAM
      HAM 2 January 2021 17: 25
      +7
      "With a good engine and the fence will fly" (c), in the case of the F-35, the pipe flies. The whole emphasis is on stealth, a blow from afar, from the undercover ...
      1. Comrade I
        Comrade I 2 January 2021 17: 42
        +3
        "... from afar, from the undercover ..." And what's wrong with that? Just fine (for them) if it really works.
        1. bar
          bar 2 January 2021 17: 51
          +3
          Quote: Comrade Y
          if it really works.

          Exactly, if it really works, which is far from a fact.
          Perhaps they themselves guess about this, otherwise how to explain the suspension of full-scale serial production of the F-35.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 2 January 2021 18: 10
            +1
            Well, as if the Air Force again began to order Igles, and the Navy did not stop buying SuperHornets.
          2. hydrox
            hydrox 2 January 2021 19: 28
            +2
            Of course, it will not work: the US already know that the Armament of the Russian Aerospace Forces has been equipped with a RVV-BD (R-80)) since the end of the 37s, which has a launch range of over 300 km - the US has 100 km less.
            Therefore, the fushka will not get close to drying imperceptibly, even if the drying radar is 50 km worse than the fushka's radar, but the flight qualities of an uncouth log will not allow the fushka to dodge the P-37, and drying makes such a maneuver easy and dodges almost guaranteed.
          3. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 2 January 2021 21: 56
            0
            Quote: bar
            how to explain the suspension of full-scale serial production of the F-35.


            Full-scale production of the F-35 has not been suspended, so there is no need to explain.
            1. bar
              bar 2 January 2021 22: 04
              +1
              Quote: Eye of the Crying
              Full-scale production of the F-35 has not been suspended, so there is no need to explain.

              You probably have your own trusted sources of information. And we, in the old fashioned way, receive information exclusively from the Internet. And in particular, no further than yesterday on the VO website:
              https://topwar.ru/178702-pentagon-reshenie-o-naraschivanii-obemov-proizvodstva-istrebitelej-f-35-otlozheno-na-neopredelennyj-srok.html
              1. The eye of the crying
                The eye of the crying 2 January 2021 22: 05
                +1
                Quote: bar
                And we, in the old fashioned way, receive information exclusively from the Internet. And in particular on the VO website


                First, there is nothing about "suspension"; secondly, it is useful to read also the comments on the news.
      2. bar
        bar 2 January 2021 18: 03
        +4
        Quote: HAM
        "With a good engine and the fence will fly" (c)

        It will fly, but just like a fence. Whether there will be a benefit from an unobtrusive fence, and whether it is really so unobtrusive, is a big question. Hiking is a big question for the striped ones themselves.
        1. HAM
          HAM 2 January 2021 18: 24
          +3
          I just quoted one Soviet designer, in my opinion Tupolev ...... and also "a beautiful plane must fly beautifully."
    2. hydrox
      hydrox 3 January 2021 20: 16
      +1
      If the flyers have a chance to clash, then ours will tell, and show, and together we will laugh at the "flying hippos" laughing
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 2 January 2021 17: 11
    0
    I am not an expert in these matters, but if the Americans have such excellent airplanes, then why do they not dictate politics in the world's airspace?
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 2 January 2021 17: 41
    +4
    American fighters can strike while in invisibility.


    This is all show-off for visitors, all this imaginary "invisibility" laughing
    1. cniza
      cniza 2 January 2021 18: 08
      0
      And for advertising to sell your expensive products ...
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 2 January 2021 17: 44
    -1
    .... and China.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 2 January 2021 17: 48
    -1
    Tell these tales of invisibility to the Yugoslav anti-aircraft gunners.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 2 January 2021 18: 12
      +2
      If we proceed from the data of Dani, EPR F-117, an aircraft sharpened for covert actions, by the way, was approximately 0.3-0.5 sq.
    2. hydrox
      hydrox 3 January 2021 20: 19
      0
      Do not offend the liberda - she gets upset ... crying
  • maiman61
    maiman61 2 January 2021 17: 54
    -2
    This tale about stealth, Americans talk about despair! These flying buckets are American, only the Zulus in Africa cannot see!
  • Pavel73
    Pavel73 2 January 2021 18: 08
    +4
    An American fighter cannot remain invisible, as it will have to turn on the radar to detect the enemy at long range. It's like turning on a searchlight in the middle of the night, and thereby discovering yourself. If the radar is not turned on, then the use of passive electro-optical systems equalizes the chances. The decisive advantage for the Americans is not stealth, but AWACS. We have disastrously few AWACS aircraft, and most of them require modernization.
    1. TatarinSSSR
      TatarinSSSR 2 January 2021 18: 40
      +1
      Well, at least one adequate comment
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 2 January 2021 23: 06
      -2
      "It's like turning on a spotlight in the middle of the night, and thereby discovering yourself" ///
      ----
      Have the stealth designers thought about that? belay laughing
      Read about LPI mode:
      A low-probability-of-intercept radar (LPIR) is a radar employing measures to avoid detection by passive radar detection equipment (such as a radar warning receiver (RWR), or electronic support receiver) while it is searching for a target or engaged in target tracking. This characteristic is desirable in a radar because it allows finding and tracking an opponent without alerting them to the radar's presence. This also protects the radar installation from anti-radiation missiles (ARM).
      Pay attention to the phrase:
      without alerting them to the radar presence
      The F-22 and F-35 have just such radars.
      1. Hexenmeister
        Hexenmeister 2 January 2021 23: 28
        +4
        Maybe it's enough to tell a fairy tale? In order to detect a target at the required range, it is imperative to study a signal with a certain energy. There will be no energy in the signal, there will be no detection range, and once energy is emitted, it can always be detected. And everything that is written in English is suitable for "Birch" forty years ago.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 3 January 2021 00: 11
          +4
          Quote: Hexenmeister
          Maybe it's enough to tell a fairy tale? In order to detect a target at the required range, it is imperative to study a signal with a certain energy. The signal will have no energy, there will be no detection range, and once energy is emitted, it can always be detected.


          Absolutely.
      2. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 3 January 2021 00: 11
        +3
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Read about LPI mode:


        Stop telling ridiculous tales. The figure Dob = 193 km for a fighter-type target, which fundamentally refutes the laws of physics, has nothing to do with reality. Nevertheless, the LPI mode and reality, only the declared covert mode is possible at a distance of 40-60 km, and then the work of such a radar is completely revealed by modern STR. Only the ancient stations of the 70s - 80s will not find it.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 3 January 2021 00: 38
          +1
          Su-35 is a wonderful aircraft.
          I can only tell you that the US Air Force has repeatedly conducted
          training battles F-22 and F-35 against aircraft of the 4th generation F-16 and F-15,
          equipped with modern AFARs.
          Without the participation of AWACS aircraft from one side or the other.
          In these training battles, the F-15 and F-16 were recognized as conditionally shot down on medium
          distances before they spotted F-22 or F-35 aircraft.
          All of the above, of course, has nothing to do with the Su-35.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 3 January 2021 00: 57
            +3
            Fairy tales are good .... ridiculous fairy tales are sometimes even funny. Want to believe in delirium for God's sake.
            All this reminds of an anecdote about an old man turning to a doctor, saying that my neighbor is younger than me for a year, or maybe a woman three or four times a night, and I say only once a month
            - the doctor answered him that you are so worried, you yourself tell him that you can 7 times, business that.
          2. Charik
            Charik 3 January 2021 16: 22
            -1
            so the Su27 flew to the yusa and slapped the bream F15mu
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 3 January 2021 16: 38
              0
              Am I arguing? They are similar, with a good pilot it is quite possible to defeat the F-15.
              The entire lineup based on the Su-27 is very good.
      3. Dread
        Dread 3 January 2021 01: 01
        -1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Read about LPI mode ...

        Quote: voyaka uh
        Pay attention to the phrase:
        without alerting them to the radar presence
        The F-22 and F-35 have just such radars.

        Not tired of writing from commercials not the truth, but bring a lie?
        LP mode has a short range - low power of probing pulses, and the use of electronic warfare means the impossibility of using this mode! Warrior - take a spectrum analyzer and look at these noise-like signals, then don't write that.
        1. Avior
          Avior 3 January 2021 02: 51
          +2
          The use of RES means exposing their carrier
      4. hydrox
        hydrox 3 January 2021 20: 24
        0
        Do not try to see what is not in nature: better tell me, how much higher is the detection range of striped radars in comparison with tricolor ones using the example of conventional heavy fighters?
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 3 January 2021 20: 53
          0
          About the same.
          They have one thing in common: neither the one nor the other can see stealth from afar. yes
          1. Dread
            Dread 4 January 2021 00: 05
            -4
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Quote: hydrox
            Do not try to see what is not in nature: better tell me, how much higher is the detection range of striped radars in comparison with tricolor ones using the example of conventional heavy fighters?

            About the same.
            They have one thing in common: neither the one nor the other can see stealth from afar.

            Deliberately write not the truth, but a lie!
            The radars of the F-22 and F-35 aircraft are inferior to the Russian ones in terms of detection range.
            1. Onboard radar "Irbis" N035 has a detection range of D = 400 km on a target with RCS = 3 sq. m and will find F-22 (F-35) with an average RCS = 0,3 sq. m (0,4 sq. m) at a range of D ~ 224,9 km
            (D = 241,7 km). Values ​​for F-35 are indicated in brackets.
            2. Onboard radars AN / APG-77 F-22 and AN / APG-81 F-35 have identical parameters in terms of detection range, which is D = 300 km for targets with an average RCS = 3 sq. m and find a Su-35S with an average
            EPR = 1,5 sq. m at a distance of D = 252,2 km. However, in order to hit the air-to-air AIM-120 with a range of D = 180 km with its long-range missile, the F-22 and F-35 aircraft must reach the launch line at a range of D = 180 km, so they will be detected by the Su-35S on range D ~ 224,9 km (241,7 km) and destroyed guaranteed by an air-to-air missile R-37M with a range of D = 300 km. And with the Su-57 - the F-22 and F-35 have no a priori chances.
            1. hydrox
              hydrox 4 January 2021 13: 00
              0
              An excellent analysis, but it upsets the liberda to the point of losing consciousness, so they will minus the statesmen, and not even for the truth, but for revealing the Liberdian lie! laughing
              And it doesn't matter that the plane is not very fuchik, but the radar is taxable, and there is no AIMka at all - and they cannot do better than ours, but they push the "flying hippos" so that the brains of the partners are boiling!
  • Drovosek
    Drovosek 2 January 2021 18: 27
    +1
    Quote: kventinasd
    Not lagging behind? He surpasses them many times. What Western 4th generation fighter can rival the 35th in the air? And the fifth generation also does not really shine.

    Since the collapse of the Union - the current military aviation - has lost a tremendous amount of time - the US F 22 in combat units since 2005 (passing the necessary upgrades - initially cruising on supersonic, powerful radar, stealth technology - no matter how bad), (F 35 produced 600 ) - what is happening with the 5th generation, you can not say - for someone this is a victory, someone understands that due to various problems - they have lagged behind more than 20 years - and the number of Su 35 in 100 units is clearly not enough. At the moment, a technological breakthrough is needed so that in the future it will not be too offensive.
    1. poquello
      poquello 2 January 2021 21: 28
      0
      Quote: Drovosek
      due to various problems - more than 20 years behind

      50, 50 years behind, in a couple of years the Russian 6th generation will fly, and so yeah
  • lopvlad
    lopvlad 2 January 2021 18: 31
    -1
    in the age of stealth technology?


    the era of stealth technologies for the whole world ended on March 27, 1999, when an F-117A was shot down in the skies of Yugoslavia by the Soviet S-125 complex of the seventies.
    Now stealth is more of a fetish popularized by the West than something really valuable, unless, of course, to fight with the "Papuans."
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 2 January 2021 21: 54
      +3
      Quote: lopvlad
      the era of stealth technology for the whole world ended on March 27, 1999 when the F-117A was shot down in the skies of Yugoslavia


      And the era of tanks ended with the first destroyed tank.
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 2 January 2021 18: 32
    +3
    AND? Once again, it was listed that everyone already knew.
    The plane is not bad, so honestly, they are all good.
    And the rest, how it goes ...
  • TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 2 January 2021 18: 38
    +1
    A one-on-one or two-on-two air battle in our time is possible only in peacetime, for example, in an incident when a border is violated or when escorting some kind of aircraft. That is, someone on the one hand made a piloting error or lost their nerves. And off it went. All parties are trying to prevent this from happening. In a real war, in the first days there will be hundreds of aircraft and other targets in the air, and single battles will be rare. Pilot training, reconnaissance, ground air defense, the integrity of airfields, the operation of ground radars, electronic warfare, and so on will decide a lot there. So there is no point in comparing one to one.
  • Turist1996
    Turist1996 2 January 2021 19: 07
    -5
    Yes, yes, especially the "penguin" is "inferior"!
    Agree!
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 2 January 2021 19: 08
    +5
    There is an analogue of F15SE & EX here with them and you need to compare .......
  • Charik
    Charik 2 January 2021 19: 14
    0
    Flanker-E does not lag behind the main western fourth generation fighters and is inferior to the American fifth generation aircraft, and the fifth generation aircraft are inferior to the 5th generation aircraft. wassat
  • rruvim
    rruvim 2 January 2021 19: 30
    +3
    In a new update from Eagle Dynamics, the SU-35 gains complete air superiority. Especially with the new version of the R-77 (KS-172). laughing
  • Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 2 January 2021 20: 25
    +2
    As if crowds of fighters will fight among themselves in a clear sky. There are many factors to determine the winner of the scrum.
  • Petro_tut
    Petro_tut 2 January 2021 20: 57
    0
    I do not know about everyone, but I would like to see comments here from the pilots of the Su-35 hi
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 2 January 2021 21: 53
      +5
      https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/236399-su-27-otvety-lyotchikov/
      Read, here the pilot who flew on the Su-27 and Su-35 answers the questions of the neophytes.
      1. Petro_tut
        Petro_tut 2 January 2021 23: 32
        0
        Thanks for the link, very informative hi
        But there is nothing about contact with f35
  • Diverter
    Diverter 2 January 2021 21: 26
    +2
    The Russian Su-35 fighter is the main aircraft for gaining air superiority. 35th is the best fighter in the world, not in the Russian Federation. That is why they try so hard to hinder the sales of our dryers. Clients will immediately understand the fullness of the divorce about the great invisible people who look like pregnant pigs. My opinion is that they are ideal bombers with weak / no air defense. And nothing more. Here fu 18 and 16 yes, fighters.
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 2 January 2021 22: 08
      -3
      Quote: Saboteur
      35th is the best fighter in the world,


      Did he demonstrate it somewhere?
      1. Diverter
        Diverter 2 January 2021 22: 21
        0
        that God forbid! But in Syria, in his sight, Fu 35go held confidently. Although if someone who bought it will try, then why not.
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 2 January 2021 22: 35
          +1
          Quote: Saboteur
          that God forbid!


          What and speech.

          Quote: Saboteur
          But in Syria, in his sight, Fu 35go held confidently.


          Not in the scope and not the F-35, but that's not the point ... we don't know what was in the enemy's sight.
          1. Diverter
            Diverter 2 January 2021 22: 45
            0
            https://yandex.ru/efir?stream_id=410dec882e5a4549b0b2273d33f9775d&from_block=player_context_menu_yavideo

            oops, fu 22 was. to blame, sir.
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 2 January 2021 22: 48
              -2
              If this is the same photo of FIGHTER_BOMBER, then knowledgeable people say that the F-22 is not in the sight, but on the OLS screen, and the authenticity of the photo is disputed. In any case, without a photo of what's in the F-22 scope, it's about nothing.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 3 January 2021 00: 59
                +4
                Quote: Eye of the Crying
                In any case, without a photo of what's in the F-22 scope, it's about nothing.


                What are you talking about, it was taken from the back hemisphere
                1. poquello
                  poquello 3 January 2021 01: 27
                  +2
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  Quote: Eye of the Crying
                  In any case, without a photo of what's in the F-22 scope, it's about nothing.


                  What are you talking about, it was taken from the back hemisphere

                  the Russian had a selfie stick, so f22 turned out from the bottom
                2. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 3 January 2021 13: 32
                  0
                  I would not call the photo FIGHTER_BOMBER "a photo from the rear hemisphere", but I am not going to repeat it a third time ... see above.
      2. Radiator
        Radiator 3 January 2021 03: 34
        -1
        Yes, in training battles. The F-22 and F-35 never demonstrated anything.
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 3 January 2021 13: 35
          0
          Quote: Radiator
          Yes, in training battles.


          In training battles with which aircraft?

          Quote: Radiator
          Here F-22 and F-35 have never demonstrated anything


          Personally, they probably didn’t show it to you, and so the F-22 rather convincingly outperformed the F-15. And the F-15 is the type of fighter with the highest real combat score.

          However, I have not seen in this topic statements that the F-22 is the best in the world, and I myself do not claim this.
          1. Radiator
            Radiator 3 January 2021 22: 13
            -1
            If winning over the F-15 is an indicator for you, then for me it is an anecdote. It is important that the F-35 was merged in training battles with Su-kam 4 ** generations, this is an indicator. And we did not see the F-22 in training battles with peers.
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 4 January 2021 01: 29
              0
              Quote: Radiator
              It is important that the F-35 was merged in training battles with Su-kam 4 ** generations, this is an indicator.


              F-35s have not met in training battles with Su, you are confusing.

              Quote: Radiator
              And we did not see the F-22 in training battles with peers.


              The Su-35 was not seen in battles with the Su-57 either. However, they boldly assert that the Su-35 is the best fighter in the world (i.e. it is better than the Su-57).
  • Azimuth
    Azimuth 2 January 2021 22: 47
    0
    Quote: venik
    Quote: Thought Giant
    All the vaunted invisibility of American stealth aircraft is just publicity.

    =======
    good In general, no "invisibility"does not exist a priori! From the word AT ALL! There is"stealth", ie a set of measures to reduce the RCS of the object. This is of course an important factor, increasing efficiency combat use of an aircraft, ship, etc., but by no means a "panacea for all ills"! In addition, such a component of reducing the radar signature, such as radio-absorbing coatings, simply cannot be effective. in all radio frequency ranges. And in this way it is created in such a way that the maximum absorption falls on the most common for modern airborne radar ranges! For frequencies beyond the maximum of the absorption spectrum, then the entire "absorbing coating" is converted ...... "Trousers are converted ..... Sorry for the little technical problem! ..."

    The same applies to air defense, where radars operate in the widest range: from meter to millimeter range.
    Well, about the fact that ANY subtle the object instantly turns very even perceptible when you turn on your own radar - you, Peter, have already written! drinks
    PS "Stealth" -technology underestimate of course not, but overestimate - also! hi
    Happy New Year!

    I also support the New One!

    Su-35 equipment:
    - a more advanced radar with AFAR with new capabilities in the detection range of targets with a small EPR, that is, the so-called. stealth;
    - new engines upgraded according to the Su-57 program, this is an increase in the combat radius without increasing the fuel reserve, and non-afterburner supersonic, which means a reduction in flight time;
    - entering service with new air-to-air missiles, also developed for the Su-57.

    In principle and by and large, if the above is done, the Su-35 will be enough for the next one and a half to two decades. Taking into account R&D, the development of new technologies under the Su-57 program and the fact that we are late, the latter should only become a transitional stage to the 6th generation, if there is no conflict of a global nature before that. It is more profitable for us to gradually transfer efforts to the next generation and go there head to head, and not to be again in the role of a catch-up.
    1. Hexenmeister
      Hexenmeister 3 January 2021 11: 11
      +1
      more advanced radar with AFAR with new capabilities
      To begin with, at least repeat with the help of AFAR, what has already been done on the Irbis (detection range, zones of possible pumping of corners for the antenna), and even for the same price, and then talk about improving through AFAR!
  • _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 2 January 2021 22: 51
    0
    as well as radio-absorbing coverage
    Where did they see the radio-absorbing coverage on the Su-35, can they show us?
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 3 January 2021 02: 45
    0
    Again, as with tanks, they are discussing a one-on-one battle. Yes, this is possible, but unlikely. Therefore, it would be more interesting to discuss this fight in terms of network centricity.
  • Radiator
    Radiator 3 January 2021 03: 16
    0
    About the F-35, I would not rush to say so in their place
  • Peaceful SEO
    Peaceful SEO 3 January 2021 16: 10
    0
    At the same time, American fighters can strike while in invisibility

    Oh, those copywriters ... victims of computer strategies
  • tarackanovaleksei
    tarackanovaleksei 3 January 2021 18: 57
    0
    Are they consoling themselves or what? I remember there was an article (I don't remember which edition of the USA), where the su 35 was compared with the f35, calling the first a problem for the f35 and calling the su 35 the deadliest aircraft (this is after the air operations in Syria). that the f3.01.2021, or rather the conveyor for its production, was stopped., due to the lack of quality of the machines produced.
    Think about it now.
    Happy New Year everyone!!!
    Good luck! Good luck! Of good !
  • Usher
    Usher 5 January 2021 01: 34
    -1
    In the sense of not falling behind? Seriously?