Military Review

The aftermath of the parade of sovereignty: 30 years later

137

On December 25, 1991 at 19:00 Moscow time, a great power - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics - ceased to exist. The year 2021, which mankind is entering, is the year of the 30th anniversary of the collapse of the USSR. For all those who were born in the Soviet Union and at least somewhat distinctly remember the events of the late 1980s - early 1990s, a lump rises to their throats at the sight of footage of how the Land of the Soviets, a mighty nuclear power weapons, incredible military potential, a developed system of special services, intelligence agencies, a huge industrial sector.


Mikhail Gorbachev enters the hall where the last official speech in the Soviet Union will be delivered. By that time, most citizens already understood that the great state had actually ceased to exist, but still people cherished the hope that it was still possible to solve, return, restore.

But only those who were then at the helm of the country, or were eager to this helm, had completely different interests. For the sake of personal ambitions and the desire to get approval from "partners" from abroad, they went for what can be called high treason without any exaggeration. Parades of sovereignty, surrender of national interests, bringing the people to total impoverishment and virtually starvation with full food warehouses.

Even foreign experts, today assessing those personnel, are perplexed: how could the country be brought to such a position, how it was possible to act so irresponsibly.

Today the post-Soviet space continues to clean up the porridge that was brewed a third of a century ago. Those who have swallowed as much sovereignty as they could, today in many ways themselves do not understand how to dispose of this sovereignty. Someone just sells it, someone uses belligerent rhetoric against a neighbor, someone implements scenarios, throwing foreign advisers.

On the aftermath of the parades of sovereignty 30 years later:

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  1. Svarog
    Svarog 22 December 2020 16: 53
    +32
    Even foreign experts, today assessing those personnel, are perplexed: how could the country be brought to such a position, how it was possible to act so irresponsibly.

    Fuck these foreign experts ... that Gorbachev did not incur any punishment and, moreover, was encouraged in every possible way ... this is evidence that our interests are still under the control of the West and they are not at all ours ...
    The responsibility of the head of state must necessarily be enshrined in the Constitution. For one person, out of cowardice, stupidity, betrayal ... can ruin everything that was created by the ancestors and destroy the population of the country. All our troubles come from irresponsibility.
    1. Virus-free crown
      Virus-free crown 22 December 2020 16: 56
      +20
      Quote: Svarog
      Even foreign experts, today assessing those personnel, are perplexed: how could the country be brought to such a position, how it was possible to act so irresponsibly.

      Fuck these foreign experts ... that Gorbachev did not incur any punishment and, moreover, was encouraged in every possible way ... this is evidence that our interests are still under the control of the West and they are not at all ours ...
      The responsibility of the head of state must necessarily be enshrined in the Constitution. For one person, out of cowardice, stupidity, betrayal ... can ruin everything that was created by the ancestors and destroy the population of the country. All our troubles come from irresponsibility.

      The responsibility of the head of state was enshrined by the people of the Russian Federation in the Constitution this summer - NOT PREDICTED !!! wassat am
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 22 December 2020 16: 58
        +20
        Quote: Corona without virus
        The responsibility of the head of state was enshrined by the people of the Russian Federation in the Constitution this summer - NOT PREDICTED !!!

        That's what we're talking about .. for this, and Gorbachev is not subject to jurisdiction .. and Yeltsin .. And if Gorbachev was tried for treason and sentenced to the highest measure, then the followers would have thought ..
        1. apro
          apro 22 December 2020 17: 16
          +1
          Quote: Svarog
          Quote: Corona without virus
          The responsibility of the head of state was enshrined by the people of the Russian Federation in the Constitution this summer - NOT PREDICTED !!!

          That's what we're talking about .. for this, and Gorbachev is not subject to jurisdiction .. and Yeltsin .. And if Gorbachev was tried for treason and sentenced to the highest measure, then the followers would have thought ..

          Svarog. Who will judge? Can you answer this question?
          1. sergo1914
            sergo1914 22 December 2020 18: 28
            +5
            Quote: apro
            Quote: Svarog
            Quote: Corona without virus
            The responsibility of the head of state was enshrined by the people of the Russian Federation in the Constitution this summer - NOT PREDICTED !!!

            That's what we're talking about .. for this, and Gorbachev is not subject to jurisdiction .. and Yeltsin .. And if Gorbachev was tried for treason and sentenced to the highest measure, then the followers would have thought ..

            Svarog. Who will judge? Can you answer this question?


            I will answer. The usual "three" is enough.
            1. apro
              apro 22 December 2020 18: 35
              +7
              Got it ... a storm in a glass ...
          2. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 22 December 2020 18: 49
            +5
            Apparently those who awarded him the highest award of the capitalist RF. For the merits of spinning in favor of people with bright faces of the national means of production. laughing
          3. Svarog
            Svarog 22 December 2020 18: 55
            +6
            Quote: apro
            Quote: Svarog
            Quote: Corona without virus
            The responsibility of the head of state was enshrined by the people of the Russian Federation in the Constitution this summer - NOT PREDICTED !!!

            That's what we're talking about .. for this, and Gorbachev is not subject to jurisdiction .. and Yeltsin .. And if Gorbachev was tried for treason and sentenced to the highest measure, then the followers would have thought ..

            Svarog. Who will judge? Can you answer this question?

            Of course not .. it is clear that there is no one ..
          4. Graduate student
            Graduate student 22 December 2020 23: 32
            +25
            Quote: apro
            who will judge?

            History will judge everyone. This judgment will be more terrible than human judgment.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 22 December 2020 17: 50
          +1
          Quote: Svarog
          And if Gorbachev was tried for treason and sentenced to death, then the followers would have thought

          He thought, he wanted life guarantees. The cat knows whose meat it has eaten laughing
        3. Machito
          Machito 22 December 2020 17: 54
          +9
          Quote: Svarog
          Quote: Corona without virus
          The responsibility of the head of state was enshrined by the people of the Russian Federation in the Constitution this summer - NOT PREDICTED !!!

          That's what we're talking about .. for this, and Gorbachev is not subject to jurisdiction .. and Yeltsin .. And if Gorbachev was tried for treason and sentenced to the highest measure, then the followers would have thought ..

          Here at least the director of the housing office to bring to justice. Only ordinary citizens have responsibility.
          1. max702
            max702 24 December 2020 12: 08
            +1
            Is it just the rank and file?
        4. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 22 December 2020 20: 20
          +8
          formally, we are talking about the lack of jurisdiction of the presidents of the Russian Federation. Gorbachev, on the other hand, is the president of the USSR, we, as the legal successors of the USSR, could judge him as a traitor, he does not have jurisdiction, firstly, the law has no retroactive effect, and secondly it was a slightly different country
      2. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 17: 11
        +8
        Quote: Corona without virus
        UNCUSED !!!

        Did this help Nicholas II a lot?
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 22 December 2020 20: 21
          +6
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Did this help Nicholas II a lot?

          Was he tried? this is first, and secondly - he is a saint! yes
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 20: 35
            +7
            Quote: aybolyt678
            Was he tried?

            Did not have time. I am upset that I did not live to see the trial, then, I think, he would have been shot (hanged) by the verdict of the court.
            Quote: aybolyt678
            and secondly, he is a saint!

            Something I do not know about his miracles, prophecies, healing, I do not know about the incorruptibility of his relics. I know nothing about his holy and sinless life. And if not, then what kind of saint is he? They called him Nicholas the Bloody, they called him the Tsarskoye Selo gopher, it was. wink
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 22 December 2020 20: 41
              +4
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Did not have time. I am upset that I did not live to see the trial, then, I think, he would have been shot (hanged) by the verdict of the court.

              Soviet court is the most humane in the world! smile (Prisoner of the Caucasus.) Therefore, I doubt
              and about holiness this is a question for the church.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 20: 42
                +5
                Quote: aybolyt678
                and about holiness this is a question for the church.

                Yes, lately more and more questions have been raised to the church.
                1. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 22 December 2020 20: 50
                  +3
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Yes, lately more and more questions have been raised to the church.

                  just not about the soul ... then they will answer. I would ask a question - why do they not raise questions of morality at the state level? or is business more important?
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 20: 55
                    +4
                    Quote: aybolyt678
                    just not about the soul ... then they will answer. I would ask a question - why do they not raise questions of morality at the state level? or is business more important?

                    Better not to ask questions, otherwise we have a law on "insulting the feelings of believers", but there is no law on "insulting the feelings of atheists". Unfair, I think.
    2. Machito
      Machito 22 December 2020 17: 17
      +10
      The consequences of the collapse of the USSR 30 years later: Putin at a press conference announced the arms race and the Cold War, the head of the US State Department, Mike Pompeo, declared Russia an enemy.
      Well, and why was this disarmament necessary?
      We went to meet the West with open friendly arms (Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok), and the West turned to us as a fifth point, pulling a revolver out of his bosom.
      1. apro
        apro 22 December 2020 17: 20
        +9
        Quote: Bearded
        We went to meet the West with open friendly arms

        We did not meet halfway ... renegades from party members exchanged us for quite material buns for themselves ...
    3. 7,62x54
      7,62x54 22 December 2020 17: 19
      +10
      And now also in the State Council and the Federation Council for life. He's preparing options.
    4. dgonni
      dgonni 22 December 2020 17: 33
      -2
      What does the humpback have to do with it? Who and where were you personally in those days? Your parents? Your friends? Where was the party cohort? Where was the officer corps of all power structures?
      The union is not hunchbacked! The union was merged by the people who lived in that country!
      Of the male population, 99% of those who took the oath to defend themselves did not come out! From the party apparatus?
      Continue to continue?
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 22 December 2020 17: 48
        +1
        Quote: dgonni
        Where was the officer corps of all power structures

        Good question! At the time of the collapse, there were 30 thousand officers - 3 divisions on the military register in the Crimea! Strengths! And nothing request
        The answer is simple: then that power got it with its lies, like the current one.
        And if everything happens again, then everything will happen again. The mediocre Komsomol members and organauts did not and do not know how to do anything except to fill their pockets.
        Where were the "cold mind and clean hands" when Felix was filmed? And today's security officers could not even wash Navalny's panties
        1. Alimzhan Juraev
          Alimzhan Juraev 5 January 2021 19: 52
          0
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_iNpRPhhOA
          M. Nozhkin. How is it, Lord Officers.
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 22 December 2020 18: 03
        +2
        Physics student
        1. dgonni
          dgonni 22 December 2020 23: 15
          -6
          So a Komsomol member. He swore to protect and preserve. What are the questions for the humpback?
      3. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 22 December 2020 18: 06
        +7
        Do you remember how it was presented?
        They say instead of one they created another, passports did not change money the same
        Did everything correctly
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 22 December 2020 19: 01
          +6
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          Did everything correctly

          That's it. cheated very competently .. played out as if by sheet music. The blank was apparently.
          1. lucul
            lucul 22 December 2020 19: 25
            -4
            That's it. cheated very competently .. played out as if by sheet music. The blank was apparently.

            And it took you 30 years to do this? ))))
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 22 December 2020 23: 04
              +4
              much less, but when people realized that the train had already left
      4. Svarog
        Svarog 22 December 2020 18: 59
        +7
        Quote: dgonni
        What does the humpback have to do with it?

        Because he cheated .. Remind you what he promised ..? Or do you think that everyone was equal to a lifetime mortgage and the collapse of the USSR ..
        Many problems have accumulated and the people believed that they would begin to solve them ...
        1. lucul
          lucul 22 December 2020 19: 31
          +4
          Many problems have accumulated and the people believed that they would begin to solve them ...

          Only one question has accumulated - Stalin said before his death - we need to develop the economic theory of socialism (the social theory was developed, but the economic one was not) otherwise we are dead.
          So it happened.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 22 December 2020 19: 37
            +7
            Quote: lucul
            Only one question has accumulated - Stalin said before his death - we need to develop the economic theory of socialism (the social theory was developed, but the economic one was not) otherwise we are dead.
            So it happened.

            Before his death, Stalin wanted to reform the Communist Party and leave behind it only the function of recruiting personnel and propaganda .. This had to be done .. As for the economy, everything is very good there. It was only necessary to distribute correctly .. to cut the costs of promoting socialism and aid to countries in need, as well as the military industry and put them in the direction of expanding the range of consumer goods .. And all the cases .. And now, given the processing capacity and the availability of accurate information, you can establish the need for everyone a person with absolute precision.
            1. lucul
              lucul 22 December 2020 20: 12
              +1
              As for the economy, everything is very good there. It was only necessary to properly distribute ... to cut the costs of promoting socialism and aid to countries in need, as well as the military industry and use them towards expanding the range of consumer goods ..

              In words, everything is always easy))))
              Capitalism is based on a powerful economic foundation - the system is self-regulating, everything works there by itself, without government interference. Therefore, the role of government is minimized - war and administrative functions.
              Under socialism, in general, EVERYTHING is entrusted to the government. Everything from A to Z. And then an incredibly terrible management crisis sets in. Let me explain to you approximately, if it is not clear. So you created an empire and defeated all enemies, now only organizational issues remain, that is, issues of managing the empire. Historically, it is impossible to rule the entire empire in the singular, no matter how outstanding person he is. For this, the empire is divided into provinces / provinces and a responsible person is placed there. But even a province cannot be governed alone, and the governor also splits his power into smaller provinces, with local governors. This is the only way to manage a huge empire.
              Look - for the system to be stable, it must grow from the bottom up. Let me explain - historically, in agricultural countries, the number of armies is directly proportional to the number of people - a maximum of 5% of the country's population, it was no longer possible to feed, and even if it was also armed with iron, then there were hundreds of troops. So the system grew from the bottom up - having reached the number of troops in 100 people, they thought about its organizational structure - more than 100 people, at a time not a single military leader is able to control physically, for this he takes assistants. So, with an increase in the size of the army to 1 people, already 000 centurions were put in charge and their commander (exaggeratedly - a thousand) was at the head - the system was stable and tested, with a further increase in numbers, up to 10 people, the organizational structure included 5 thousand at the head of their structurally new military leader. The system was again stable, everyone from a soldier to a foreman / centurion knew his role and responsibilities. This system can be scaled further upwards, towards consolidation, until everything rests against logistics.
              Now look what you offer
              ... As for the economy, everything is very good there. It was only necessary to distribute correctly.

              That is, you propose to distribute everything correctly from above, that is, the military leader must monthly decide alone the entire life and activity of the army himself. Itself, without delegating authority to assistants, everything itself, because under socialism there is no delegation of authority to the localities, what, how much and when to produce. Only from above and only the State Planning Committee. Do you understand? The system has absolutely no foundation and is divorced from reality, because it is not people who decide, but for people how much they eat and drink, and most importantly, what to think. Will such a system be sustainable? No . Only if instead of the State Planning Commission put a developed AI, and even then I doubt it.
              Therefore, Stalin was 100% right when he said that without the economic theory of socialism we are dead. And so it happened.
              You (the new communists) took into account all the mistakes of socialism, developed a new economic theory of socialism? If not, the result will be the same as in 1991.
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 22 December 2020 20: 28
                +1
                Quote: lucul
                Therefore, Stalin was 100% right when he said that without the economic theory of socialism we are dead. And so it happened.

                Yes, he did not say that .. discard the link ..
                Have you taken into account all the mistakes of socialism, developed a new economic theory of socialism? If not, the result will be the same as in 1991.

                You wrote a lot, but in short, you described the structure .. The main argument you have is the request from below ..
                So this in no way contradicts socialism .. imagine a picture .. on the state site, a person places his needs for food, clothing and leisure for a year .. And he even chooses the style, form of clothing, products that he needs, the car that he plans to buy .. yes, whatever you want .. the main thing he does it in a year .. Further, this information is processed, structured and sent to the departments of light industry, agro-industry, mechanical engineering, etc. A plan appears, there is also a plan for the birth rate, population decline and etc. .. that is, everything is planned, it remains to be produced, Based on a clear understanding of the needs, production capacities are calculated, the raw materials needed ... and everything along the chain .. All this is done in a few hours (except for collecting information) and voila, everything worked .. there is a request from the bottom .. as you imagine. The request is digitized and launched into production.
                You have taken into account all the mistakes of socialism


                There are no mistakes in the socialist idea. She is flawless. There are mistakes in the ways of its implementation, in intellectual equality (not all are equal, unfortunately), in the organization and in the choice of personality. These are the main problems .. and they have nothing to do with socialism ..
                1. lucul
                  lucul 22 December 2020 21: 05
                  -6
                  Yes, he did not say that .. discard the link ..

                  Mmmm ...
                  “At the beginning of March 1953, Stalin phoned a member of the newly elected Presidium of the Central Committee, DI Chesnokov:“ ... You should soon start working on issues of further development of the theory. we mess up the theory, then we ruin the whole thing. Without a theory, we are dead, death! "
                  What brought Stalin into a state of extreme stress that caused a stroke? In 1951 - 1952 an economic discussion took place in the country on the basis of a draft of a new textbook on political economy handed out to its participants. Stalin summed up the results of this discussion in his article "Economic problems of socialism in the USSR" of February 1, 1952 "

                  Have you read his article "Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR" dated February 1, 1952 "?
                  1. Svarog
                    Svarog 22 December 2020 21: 11
                    +3
                    Quote: lucul
                    Have you read his article "Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR" dated February 1, 1952 "?

                    No, but thanks to you I will read this on the January holidays. I am sure that you either misunderstood or distorted the essence. The minus is not mine. We had an interesting conversation hi
                2. Revolver
                  Revolver 23 December 2020 04: 13
                  +3
                  Quote: Svarog
                  there is also a plan for the birth rate, population decline, etc., that is, everything is planned, it remains to produce

                  Those. You have been given a birth plan for your family - if you please, follow it, and impotence is not accepted as a good reason. If you can't do it yourself - ask, your comrades will provide help that they can ... well, they can do, and your wife's opinion is also not taken into account. "Plan is law, fulfillment is duty, overfulfillment is valor" - I think that's what they said? And at the right time, the mortality plan will be lowered, along with a pill or a single-shot pistol.
                  No, do you seriously think that you can plan your life to the smallest detail, including going to the bathhouse and hairdresser? It was the attempts to plan everything and everyone that led to the fact that the store shelves were full, but if you look closely, there is nothing to buy, that the clothes of the "Red Seamstress", that the shoes of the "Skorokhod" are solid illiquid assets.
                  By the way, this was not the case under Stalin. Most of the consumer goods were produced by artels and even - it's terrible to say - private traders. I also caught my father's aunt alive, who worked as a homework dressmaker on a foot-operated Singer. Cool, by the way, sewed, albeit in provincial Gomel. As we came from vacation to Leningrad, my mother was regularly asked where she sewed dresses. Under Stalin, my aunt was engaged in private business quite legally, and then quietly. She was not accused of parasitism, because she was already of retirement age, but the pension, as a former private owner, was ridiculous, so she twisted the typewriter to the last. And that's why Khrushchu needed to break what worked under Stalin?
                  1. Svarog
                    Svarog 23 December 2020 07: 49
                    +1
                    Quote: Nagan
                    No, do you seriously think that you can plan your life to the smallest detail, including going to the bathhouse and hairdresser? It was the attempts to plan everything and everyone that led to the fact that the store shelves were full, but if you look closely, there is nothing to buy, that the clothes of the "Red Seamstress", that the shoes of the "Skorokhod" are solid illiquid assets.

                    No, of course not everything to the smallest detail .. but the main one.
                    Most of the consumer goods were produced by artels and even - it's terrible to say - private traders.

                    And I'm not against private traders. Small and medium-sized businesses must operate with the help and supervision of the state.
                    And that's why Khrushchu needed to break what worked under Stalin?

                    As for Khrushch, I have one question, is he a traitor or just mentally retarded?
                    And at the right time, the mortality plan will be lowered, along with a pill or a single-shot pistol.

                    Here I put it wrong .. population decline can also be planned, but not controlled.
                    1. Revolver
                      Revolver 23 December 2020 08: 06
                      +2
                      Quote: Svarog
                      As for Khrushch, I have one question, is he a traitor or just mentally retarded?
                      Retarded. But at the same time fucking cunning ... well, well, so as not to tease the modders - cunning ass. Like a typical yкp.
                      And as for the traitor - go figure it out, he began, like many, as a Trotskyist, thanks to the cunning, he changed his shoes in a jump in time, sang hosanna to Stalin, but in his heart he remained a Trotskyist. And as soon as it got hold of power, so this Trotskyism flooded from all holes. The question is, did he betray his ideals or, on the contrary, put them into practice regardless of the consequences?
                3. your1970
                  your1970 26 February 2021 10: 20
                  0
                  Quote: Svarog
                  Imagine a picture .. on the state site, a person places his needs for food, clothing and leisure for a year .. Moreover, he even chooses the style, form of clothing, products that he needs, the car that he plans to buy .. yes, anything .. the main thing he does it in a year ..

                  Yes .......... Strong ...
                  Stumbled upon an old article ...
                  Either cry, or laugh ...

                  Let's say you have planned to buy a car - one year in advance as suggested. The industry released it - and you died ... The car is worth it, the plant did not receive the money ...
                  And let's say there are 50 thousand of you all over the country .. The annual production of cars is down the drain. The next year you count the release - and then it turns out that there are not enough cars .. Or the wrong cars, I ordered one, there was enough money for a cheaper one ..
                  And corruption will arise - yes, such that the times of the USSR with postcards and queues in five years will seem like paradise ..
                  And now, during the last census, a lot of people declared themselves as nationalities "Russian Jews", "Muscovites", "Yakut Tatars", "hobbits", "elves", "Varangians", "gnomes", "Martians", " devils "and" plasterers "...
                  You SERIOUSLY believe that these people will write you the truth about their needs ???? !!!!
                  And then there are the mentally ill, the mentally ill and just funny ...
                  And in such a swamp are you going to build the foundation of something serious?
                  Yes, this is such a space for corruption, that the current ones will cry ... with envy .......
          2. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 22 December 2020 20: 47
            0
            Quote: lucul
            we need to develop an economic theory of socialism (social developed, but not economic), otherwise we will die.

            ++ and I always say the same thing, and I am outraged when they try to develop a social theory, use history, mathematics, philosophy, but do not use the basic biological behavioral laws of animals and humans.
            The theory of socialism was never developed because they were afraid to go beyond the dogmatic framework of Marxism.
    5. New Year day
      New Year day 22 December 2020 17: 42
      +1
      Quote: Svarog
      Gorbachev was not punished and, moreover, was encouraged in every possible way ..

      So his successors are at the helm. And nothing has changed since then, everything is still happening ...
      For the sake of personal ambition and desire

      authorities
    6. Shahno
      Shahno 22 December 2020 17: 49
      -1
      Quote: Svarog
      Even foreign experts, today assessing those personnel, are perplexed: how could the country be brought to such a position, how it was possible to act so irresponsibly.

      Fuck these foreign experts ... that Gorbachev did not incur any punishment and, moreover, was encouraged in every possible way ... this is evidence that our interests are still under the control of the West and they are not at all ours ...
      The responsibility of the head of state must necessarily be enshrined in the Constitution. For one person, out of cowardice, stupidity, betrayal ... can ruin everything that was created by the ancestors and destroy the population of the country. All our troubles come from irresponsibility.

      As far as I am aware of the political system of Russia, this point will not be so difficult to annul if you feel like it. Rigid vertical, lack of an independent judiciary.
      Ps. That is, the point will be, but that’s the point.
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 22 December 2020 19: 03
        +2
        Quote: Shahno
        As far as I am aware of the political system of Russia, this point will not be so difficult to annul if you feel like it. Rigid vertical, lack of an independent judiciary.
        Ps. That is, the point will be, but that’s the point.

        You're right. And the funnier against this background looks the initiative of a nullified citizen about his own lack of jurisdiction .. Shows that a person is "brave", "decisive" and, most importantly, that he understands what is for what.
    7. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 22 December 2020 17: 54
      0
      Quote: Svarog
      Yes, to hell with these foreign experts .. here is the fact that Gorbachev did not incur any punishment and, moreover, was encouraged in every possible way.

      The highest orders of Russia and the United States, they don’t give anyone for nothing, so Mihkel worked out his 30 pieces of silver. And Boryusika, even a mausoleum was built, well, just like George Washington. (Although both did the same thing).
    8. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 22 December 2020 17: 57
      -2
      Quote: Svarog
      For one person, out of cowardice, stupidity, betrayal .. can ditch everything that was created by the ancestors and destroy the population of the country.

      We were not taught correctly under the USSR, when they said "one person cannot turn history" - now I understand they lied (or they broke everything, but the mink laurels).
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 22 December 2020 19: 05
        +2
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Quote: Svarog
        For one person, out of cowardice, stupidity, betrayal .. can ditch everything that was created by the ancestors and destroy the population of the country.

        We were not taught correctly under the USSR, when they said "one person cannot turn history" - now I understand they lied (or they broke everything, but the mink laurels).

        Do you think he was alone? Nobody alone will do anything, he relied on a team of ... upstarts.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 22 December 2020 20: 01
          0
          Quote: Svarog
          Do you think he was alone? Nobody alone will do anything, he relied on a team of ... upstarts.

          Lenin also made more than one revolution, but he was alone in the mausoleum, Hitler did not make the Reich alone, but for the whole world he was elevated alone to the rank of the greatest misanthropist, Minka was also not alone, but all his laurels, Boryusk was not the only one who stole, but received a memorial only he, then even bypassed Minka, to whom Only Medvedev and Clinton (or maybe Obama from Kenya) were given the order. It turns out one makes history. But Stalin, although he did a lot alone, but he also dragged the weight of the Slovene Union, saying that we are brutes, the west is fluffy, we want to devour.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 22 December 2020 20: 09
            +2
            So I am about the same .. Gorbachev is a symbol and leader of the collapse .. But he was not alone .. like Stalin. Stalin relied on like-minded people ... what only Zhdanov was worth ... and Beria ...
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 22 December 2020 20: 46
              0
              Quote: Svarog
              what did Zhdanov cost ... and Beria ..

              And Shcherbakov 1st Secretary of the Moscow City Committee of the CPSU.
    9. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 22 December 2020 19: 02
      +3
      I am proud that I was 17 at that time and, being on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR, did not take part in that shameful voting!
  2. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 22 December 2020 16: 53
    +5
    Yeah ... I still feel bitter and ashamed of how the USSR was merged 30 years ago ... Yes, there were problems, but they were solvable ... but soooo ... a bunch of dealers from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, to please their ambitions, profiled the Great Country !!! am they all fled to their burrows ... and then everyone in this burrow was finished off ...
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 22 December 2020 16: 56
      +15
      Quote: Corona without virus
      ... a handful of businessmen from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, for the sake of their ambitions profiled the Great Country !!! they all fled to their burrows ... and then everyone in this burrow was finished off ...

      Yes, they did not finish them off, they live wonderfully and are well, children are billionaires, grandchildren over the hill .. everything is fine ..
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 22 December 2020 16: 57
        +8
        Quote: Svarog
        Quote: Corona without virus
        ... a handful of businessmen from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, for the sake of their ambitions profiled the Great Country !!! they all fled to their burrows ... and then everyone in this burrow was finished off ...

        Yes, they did not finish them off, they live wonderfully and are well, children are billionaires, grandchildren over the hill .. everything is fine ..

        I wanted to say - they finished off the people of the USSR, who, under the control of a handful of businessmen, each fled to his own house ...
  3. BIABIA
    BIABIA 22 December 2020 16: 55
    +11
    Effects? Yes, these are the consequences now
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 22 December 2020 16: 58
      +1
      Quote: BIABIA
      Effects? Yes, these are the consequences now

      Not in the eyebrow but in the eye good
  4. Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 22 December 2020 16: 56
    -12%
    If the USSR had not collapsed, it would now be a Muslim state. At the expense of the industrial RSFSR (and the BSSR), all of Central Asia multiplied. From those wishing to "spoil the air" (minus) I expect justification and attempts to refute my point of view.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 22 December 2020 17: 09
      +14
      Quote: Bolt Cutter
      If the USSR had not collapsed, it would now be a Muslim state. At the expense of the industrial RSFSR (and the BSSR), all of Central Asia multiplied. From those wishing to "spoil the air" (minus) I expect justification and attempts to refute my point of view.

      When the USSR appeared, the Muslims recognized the taste of bacon .. And the very definition of "the Muslim state of the USSR" is ridiculous ... And the number of peoples of the fraternal republics would be leveled by the growth of the Russian part of the population. And most importantly, the USSR created jobs in the homeland of the fraternal peoples ... accordingly, there was no such need as now to travel around the world in search of a long ruble.
      And yet, Muslims continue to grow in number, although there is no longer the USSR, only they are now called guest workers .. and there are much more of them now in Russia. Moscow is a witness.
      Quote: Bolt Cutter
      From those wishing to "spoil the air" (minus) I am waiting for justification and attempts to refute my point of view

      I don't put a minus .. but the point of view mmmm .. specific and not justified ..
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 22 December 2020 17: 16
        -3
        the peoples of the fraternal republics would be leveled by the growth of the Russian part of the population
        The Russian population did not grow as fast as the "brotherly" population. They have five or six children each. And as soon as the power of Moscow turned into a pumpkin, the "brothers" of the Russians were expelled from their republics. Moreover, they were expelled according to the medieval-killing and throwing them out of their homes.
        Muslims recognized the taste of lard.
        At the same time, they did not cease to be Muslims.
        1. apro
          apro 22 December 2020 17: 23
          +4
          Quote: Bolt Cutter
          The Russian population did not grow so fast

          Yes it is. But the Central Asian peoples themselves were gradually civilized. Not quickly, but the process went on.
          1. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 22 December 2020 17: 29
            0
            When the power of the Center collapsed, they rushed to cut out (literally) and throw out the pale-faced from their apartments. All their civilization (several decades, not a joke) was flushed down the toilet. Or was it not?
            1. apro
              apro 22 December 2020 17: 32
              +4
              Yes, it was. And what does this mean? We must do it to the end. Do not betray or abandon. They cut not only the Russians, but sometimes their own people who did not think in their language ..
              1. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 22 December 2020 17: 38
                -3
                Yes, it was. And what does it mean?
                About love, respect and solidarity with non-locals. Who came to heal them, teach and rebuild their cities.
                sometimes their own who did not think in their language.
                Opposition under the shkonka-rule is eternal. By the way, the fighters against apartheid in South Africa killed much more of their own than whites. But that cannot justify the massacre of non-locals.
            2. Moore
              Moore 22 December 2020 18: 04
              0
              When the autocracy collapsed, it was the same in the outskirts: Russians were slaughtered from Finland to Turkestan. Hence the conclusion: the central power of the Empire is weakening (in any capacity of the Empire) - all kinds of evil spirits climb up. That in itself is not a reason to destroy this power for the sake of something or someone.
              Yes, to hold with a steel Stalinist hand the peoples hitherto in the Middle Ages, at the end of the 20th century, is somehow not comme il faut. But if we set aside the Leninist principle of national self-determination (yes, conduct an audit of the "only correct teaching"), screw on the nishtyak crane that flows abundantly along the periphery of the Empire and build the "shining city on a hill" directly in the RSFSR, and not in Tbilisi or Riga, the outskirts could well be made to love and respect the authorities for the metered supply of preferences dear to the heart of every native leader.
            3. sergey32
              sergey32 22 December 2020 18: 16
              -9
              Boltorez, I will support you. Each event has both pros and cons. With all the colossal losses during the collapse of the USSR, Russia got rid of the need to maintain Central Asia and Transcaucasia. Now they come here as a labor force, we have no obligation to carry out budget equalization in those regions. They are responsible for their own lives. There is an opportunity to send more money to their regions. Our cities look much better now than they did 30 years ago.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 18: 35
                +4
                Quote: sergey32
                Our cities look much better now than they did 30 years ago.

                Well, yes, well, yes, do pensioners pull out beer banks from garbage cans? Iron doors in the entrances appeared? Are there parking lots instead of playgrounds? Are they building temples instead of parks? You call it better?
                Quote: sergey32
                Russia got rid of the need to maintain Central Asia and Transcaucasia. Now they come here as a labor force, we have no obligation to carry out budget equalization in those regions. They are responsible for their own lives.

                What the hell are you talking about "budget equalization"? The next thing I will hear is "Enough to feed the Caucasus", then "Enough to feed the Tatars"? Nenets and Yakuts do not need to feed the same? Where are you from, the nationalists, you just come from.
                Quote: sergey32
                There is an opportunity to send more money to their regions.

                Especially touched. What, more money from Moscow began to go to the regions? Then I look at my polyclinic and I am glad how much money has come to my region. Only obscene words remained.
                1. sergey32
                  sergey32 22 December 2020 18: 58
                  +1
                  I don’t know where you live, but everywhere in Russia, where I don’t come, cities, roads, trains are getting better and better. The North Caucasus was lucky that it remained a part of Russia, otherwise there would have been complete trash. Tatars differ little from Russians, if only they are rural. I studied in Kazan for 5 years. We have been with them for 500 years side by side, we have got used to it and can teach Europe how Christians and Muslims can live together. I think that now Russia is completely self-sufficient and is able to solve its problems. Of course, there are many poor people, but there would be much more problems with Central Asia than now.
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 19: 11
                    +2
                    Quote: sergey32
                    We have been with them for 500 years side by side, have got used to it and can teach Europe how Christians and Muslims can live together.

                    Can't we live with Uzbeks? I am from the Kuban, I know the North Caucasus. I see that nationalism is artificially inflated by ours, the Russians are the same. This will ruin Russia completely.
                    1. sergey32
                      sergey32 22 December 2020 19: 27
                      -1
                      We can live with Uzbeks too. And they can and want? Or as soon as they got freedom, they began to pinch and displace the Russians. Time will pass, and then it will be seen how much we need each other.
                      1. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 19: 52
                        +4
                        Quote: sergey32
                        We can live with Uzbeks too. And they can and want? Or as soon as they got freedom, they began to pinch and displace the Russians. Time will pass, and then it will be seen how much we need each other.

                        No, my friend, this is not the way to look at it. Any nation can live together in one state. In neighboring apartments, etc. There are simply more educated nations, and others less educated. Education brings people closer together, aligns one size fits all. And contradictions between people can only be class. What is the difference between a Tajik who considers himself a Muslim and who has never read the Koran, who only knows that it is necessary to pray and eat fat, and a Russian collective farmer who has not read the Bible, but considers himself Orthodox, because he goes to church, and turns over the broom at the entrance , what would not be jinxed? They are both "semi-literate" and one and the other must be "educated." And the state has launched priests in our schools and "introduced the law of God." The national question should be resolved at the state level by the gradual erasure of national differences. But this is a long question and not for this state. Is it possible at the state level to bring Tajiks to construction sites who do not mix and will not mix with Russians? The state itself encourages nationalism, it needs it. What is the difference between a Russian and a Ukrainian nationalist? And what are the nationalists doing in Ukraine now? Why does our state breed nationalists, have you ever wondered?
                      2. Svarog
                        Svarog 22 December 2020 20: 49
                        +3
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        No, my friend, this is not the way to look at it. Any nation can live together, in one state

                        Alexey, great comment good hi
                      3. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 20: 59
                        +2
                        Quote: Svarog
                        Alexey, great comment

                        Thank you, I haven’t written about Usmanov, an Uzbek, Alikperov, a Jew, Abramovich, a Jew. For some reason, they have no ethnic conflicts. And let the slaves squabble among themselves, do not care about what, if only they did not wring out anything.
          2. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 22 December 2020 19: 00
            +2
            Uh-huh, after 30 years and not as good as the liberals, nationalists and other capitalist trash have sung to us, the adepts will have enough to feed (substitute the actual). Here the whole of Russia was supposed to flourish, but in fact they got prettier medicine in the form of cheap paving slabs, a drop in real income, a gradually dying out other social system, an attack on workers' rights, and all this against the background of a holiday of life for 10 percent of the population with Courchevels and yachts. Putin and his bulk companions of social inequality planted such a bomb under the Russian Federation that no Lenin dreamed of.
            1. dog of war
              dog of war 23 December 2020 20: 23
              0
              I'm sorry, but you can ask, and Navalny has to do with it? He doesn't seem to have access to the trough.
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 23 December 2020 22: 41
                0
                What is the fundamental difference between Putin and Navalny? That the one that other adepts of capitalism. And there are very reasonable suspicions that the leshik, due to its exceptional unsinkability, is quite in the same cage with the authorities.
          3. Svarog
            Svarog 22 December 2020 19: 08
            +3
            Quote: sergey32
            Russia got rid of the need to maintain Central Asia and Transcaucasia.

            They said .. Why don’t we keep them as before .. They pay taxes while working with us .. or don’t write off many billions of debts?
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 17: 20
    +4
    Quote: Bolt Cutter
    At the expense of the industrial RSFSR (and the BSSR), all of Central Asia multiplied.

    You are wrong, Colleague. The USSR pursued a correct national policy. The policy of mixing nationalities. For example, my parents got an apartment in Navoi (Uzbekistan). Russians (Tatars, Georgians, etc.) went to republics where the population was less educated, built factories, and often stayed there. By the way, the birth rate in Uzbekistan was then much lower than today. And the birth rate of the Slavic population is higher. The state then followed this.
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 22 December 2020 17: 26
      -3
      the birth rate in Uzbekistan was then much lower than today. And the birth rate of the Slavic population is higher
      The birth rate among the Slavs was not much higher; not far from the modern one. And yet, what if the native of Vyatka doesn't want to go to the aul? In his native Vyatka (Smolensk, Volgograd) wants to live and bring benefits? And was it really not clear that if the collar weakened, and the "fraternal peoples" would show their essence?
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 17: 47
        +3
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        And yet, what if the native of Vyatka doesn't want to go to the aul? In his native Vyatka (Smolensk, Volgograd) wants to live and bring benefits? And was it really not clear that if the collar weakened, and the "fraternal peoples" would show their essence?

        And in Vyatka there were a lot of factories of their own under the USSR. He doesn’t want to go and don’t have to, there is a lot of work at home. And from Central Asia they were not too torn in the RSFSR. Salaries were about the same everywhere, there was plenty of work everywhere. North is another story. As for the "fraternal peoples", then tell me what I care about a person's nationality, if he is mentally close to me? If a Russian person, for example, works in a research institute as a junior researcher, his colleague is Uzbek, what is the difference between them? Both are atheists, one is Pushkin, the other is Alisher Navoi, one is proud of Lomonosov, the other is Avicena, what are the contradictions between them? Were there not enough mixed families?
        1. sergey32
          sergey32 22 December 2020 18: 40
          -2
          That's right, why should they rush to the RSFSR, in Central Asia it was nourishing. My parents are from Vyatka. Under the USSR, the Russian Non-Black Earth Region was supplied last. With Batya he often traveled to the Kirov region from Mari El. At the border, the asphalt ended, if it rained, then on that clay you can only drive on shishiga. The people ran away from the collective farms.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 18: 45
            +2
            Quote: sergey32
            Under the USSR, the Russian Non-Black Earth Region was supplied last.

            I don’t know about the non-black zone, I’ve been to Kursk and the region, I lived in the Kuban, the supply was the same as in Uzbekistan. Or was it not the RSFSR?
            1. sergey32
              sergey32 22 December 2020 19: 07
              -1
              My mother’s cousin left to rebuild Tashkent after the earthquake and stayed there. Mother went to visit, she said, there is better supply.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 19: 18
                +1
                Quote: sergey32
                My mother’s cousin left to rebuild Tashkent after the earthquake and stayed there. Mother went to visit, she said, there is better supply.

                Yes, it was about the same with the Krasnodar Territory. There were national products, lamb and pork were scarce. I remember barbecue, on ordinary days for 50 kopecks, and on holidays for 25 kopecks. Markets with fruits and vegetables were gorgeous, pomegranates there that burst from ripeness were 3 or 5 kopecks, per kilo. And in stores everything was about the same.
          2. Svarog
            Svarog 22 December 2020 19: 11
            +2
            Quote: sergey32
            At the border, the asphalt ended, if it rained, then on that clay you can only drive on shishiga. The people ran away from the collective farms.

            And now there is that the asphalt has appeared ... that year I went to my relatives .. as it was 30 years ago it remained .. only now the intensive care unit in Luza is now gone .. and the people have greatly diminished.
            1. sergey32
              sergey32 22 December 2020 19: 18
              0
              The last time I went to Sanchursk with my father was 10 years ago. Excellent fresh asphalt has been laid.
  • paul3390
    paul3390 22 December 2020 17: 26
    +5
    Something I do not remember such a wild number of types of guests from the southern republics on our streets as it is now .. Yes, actually - there were practically none of them at all in the RSFSR .. Because the institute of registration was made precisely to regulate migration flows, and to bring in echelons of Tajiks in Russia, no one would even dream of .. On the feijoa ???
  • New Year day
    New Year day 22 December 2020 17: 56
    +1
    Quote: Bolt Cutter
    If the USSR had not collapsed, it would now be a Muslim state.


    This is Moscow. Was it like that in the Soviet Union?
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 20: 23
      +1
      Quote: Silvestr
      This is Moscow. Was it like that in the Soviet Union?

      Under the USSR, a third of the "clergymen" would be imprisoned and they would no longer want to arrange such "events." And then the bulk of the "clergy" do not think about anything except their own pocket.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 22 December 2020 18: 08
    +2
    When did you live in Central Asia?
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 18: 47
      +1
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      When did you live in Central Asia?

      If you ask me, then before the 80th year. It is not clear to whom the question is without quotation
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 22 December 2020 23: 05
        +2
        click the arrow and go to the desired post
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 23: 44
          +2
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          click the arrow and go to the desired post

          "So, what is this thing, and I stabbed her nuts" repeat (from a dirty joke)
  • apro
    apro 22 December 2020 17: 04
    +2
    Consequences ... to whom the donut and to whom the donut hole ... how they did not want to feed the Union republics, how they wanted to trade correctly, how they wanted freedom ... and how they did not want to take responsibility for the fate of the country. The human brain is plastic. remembers the bad ... remembers who owes him.
    There is no point in grieving, and there is neither strength nor ideas to recreate the semblance of the USSR ... but, by and large, there are people capable of going to the end ...
  • seacap
    seacap 22 December 2020 17: 45
    +3
    The people in power are the same people who betrayed and killed the state, their homeland, who betrayed their grandfathers and fathers, so that later, hiding behind their portraits and their great victories, rob, steal ineptly destroy, all their conquests at the cost of huge sacrifices and talent. All these people, with difficulty pronouncing this, continue to sleep softly and eat sweetly, having created an inherited estate society, in the end they have already gone crazy with dough, impunity and permissiveness. Continuing the plunder, destruction of the country and people, some through thoughtlessness, some systematically and deliberately. In terms of its intellectual, mental level, the entire power structure and its actions, in my opinion of the layman, are more in line with the actions and tasks of the colonial administration than the national government and leadership, with a squeal of joy ready to throw billions to save Parisian attractions or provide people free of charge anywhere in the world , except for their own, which is kept in poverty and deeply despised, and even tear up 7 skins, forgetting about the fire victims, after the flood, etc. Bankers, instruments of external neo-colonial management such as the HSE, the Central Bank successfully take under digital control absolutely all spheres of activity of the state and each person, and with the center in the overseas metropolis, the judicial and law enforcement agencies have been turned into punitive ones to protect the interests of the upper class, with which people are already afraid to contact ... It seems that the Moskow State is waging a war of annihilation with the people in the territories of a former great power, posing a direct and clear threat to the further existence of our civilization. After the actions of the Muscovites and their so-called. business in the regions remains "scorched earth", practically, and often real, in the literal sense of the word, with the destroyed and devastated economy of the region, without population and without ecology, an area of ​​little use for life.
    1. Petr Vladimirovich
      Petr Vladimirovich 22 December 2020 19: 10
      +2
      "Muscovites' actions" That's right! How many of them, aborigines, mostly pensioners, are there? Million five? Everyone will be under the root ...
      1. seacap
        seacap 22 December 2020 21: 06
        -1
        12-14 million, like your "gifted" mayor with his passion, also a deputy, and if you want to talk about the indigenous, they have not existed at all since the time of Mamai, they all "come in large numbers" from all our immense and not only , at the moment "Muscovites", that is, residents of the megalopolis which concentrated everything and everything in one place, starting with literally all the material resources of the regions, to human resources, both administrative and criminal. All of them come to the regions with a snobby and arrogant look "to introduce" the wild despised aborigines to civilization, forgetting that he or his ancestors recently moved to the capital from some Pupyrlovka, leaving behind ruined enterprises and dumbfounded local "savages" with turned out pockets. And what a business in Moscow is, he really appreciated it on his own skin.
        1. Petr Vladimirovich
          Petr Vladimirovich 23 December 2020 19: 05
          0
          Personally, I have come in large numbers. Ancestors of his father from Voronezh, mother from Ryazan. And the budget of the country and the city - things and sources are different. smile
          1. seacap
            seacap 23 December 2020 19: 43
            0
            In general, we are all come in large numbers. At least one region in the country with a predominance of the population who lived there for centuries, but what can we say about Kaliningrad, Crimea, etc. What is meant here is something completely different, I hope it's enough to understand the meaning of the above? And here is migration, etc., if the conversation was about completely different things, is it really so difficult to understand the meaning of the sentence, and not draw conclusions and hysterize about individual words, giving them a completely different meaning?
            1. Petr Vladimirovich
              Petr Vladimirovich 24 December 2020 16: 13
              0
              I don't like boors, but I will repeat as an exception:
              "the budget of the country and the city are different things and sources"
    2. Svarog
      Svarog 22 December 2020 19: 13
      +2
      In terms of its intellectual, mental level, the entire power structure and its actions, in my opinion of the average man, are more consistent with the actions and tasks of the colonial administration,

      I agree with every word hi
  • certero
    certero 22 December 2020 17: 51
    +9
    Quote: Bolt Cutter
    If the USSR had not collapsed, it would now be a Muslim state

    The Soviet Union was such a concept of the Soviet people. And at a certain level, the education and development of a particular person's nationality practically did not play any role. Everyone communicated in Russian, regardless of what kind of inscription he had in his passport. Even more, the majority did not know the language of their nationality. Only Russian.
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 22 December 2020 19: 06
      -3
      concept of the Soviet people.
      And why did the Soviet Asians persecute the Soviet Europeans?
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 22 December 2020 19: 15
        +3
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        concept of the Soviet people.
        And why did the Soviet Asians persecute the Soviet Europeans?

        They drove when the Soviet government was gone ...
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 22 December 2020 19: 57
          +1
          That is, they have already ceased to be brothers? Or when could it be done with impunity? In any case, they fully showed the true value of the brotherhood of peoples.
          1. Graduate student
            Graduate student 22 December 2020 23: 26
            +19
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            they showed the true value of the brotherhood of nations completely

            Yes, they showed the value of the brotherhood of nations back in 1941. When all together, shoulder to shoulder, fought against Germany and its satellites.
            What you are talking about took place, but it was done by a rabid handful, an aggressive minority, with the complete connivance of the central government and law enforcement agencies.
  • Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 22 December 2020 18: 07
    +4
    Any parade has an end. And illegal parades are usually also dispersed by force. The 1991 parade is not legal and must be canceled.
    1. Graduate student
      Graduate student 22 December 2020 23: 22
      +19
      Quote: Herman 4223
      Any parade has an end

      I don’t know who said:
      The universe has a beginning but no end. The stars also have a beginning, but they perish because of their own strength.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 23 December 2020 09: 58
        +1
        Whether the universe has an end or not, more than one scientist, I think, will not answer exactly. I think the end still exists, we simply do not know it, and we cannot understand where it is and what it looks like.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 22 December 2020 18: 46
    -1
    I remember empty shelves in the RSFSR and abundance in Transcaucasia and Central Asia in the mid-1980s, all republics lived well at the expense of the Slavic republics of the Union, primarily the RSFSR, in the format in which the late Union was, it was doomed to collapse
    1. Petr Vladimirovich
      Petr Vladimirovich 26 December 2020 18: 45
      0
      In the 70s, the student had a chance to visit Tbilisi, Baku, Tallinn, Riga, Vilnius. Prodmagi - this was something against native Moscow people!
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 22 December 2020 18: 50
    +1
    "I will tell you the truth, which will be worse than any lie." - Griboyedov. All these are buttercups - flowers. If you tell the naked truth, then the youth will plug their ears and shout "Enough !!!!.
  • Graduate student
    Graduate student 22 December 2020 23: 17
    +18
    The aftermath of the parade of sovereignty: 30 years later

    We are still fully aware of the consequences of the collapse of the USSR.
  • Graduate student
    Graduate student 22 December 2020 23: 34
    +19
    Today the post-Soviet space continues to clean up the porridge that was brewed a third of a century ago.

    And it is not known when this mess will end ...
  • Graduate student
    Graduate student 23 December 2020 00: 02
    +19
    people cherished the hope that it was still possible to solve, return, restore.

    But only those who were then at the helm of the country, or were eager to this helm, had completely different interests.

    As always. People hope for one thing, but politicians have a completely different interest ...
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 23 December 2020 06: 43
    0
    The rake remained the same. We constantly attack them. In 1982, after the death of Brezhnev, Andropov met with the leader of China. The conversation dragged on, instead of thirty minutes they spoke for two hours. After this conversation, a confusion began in the brain. Follow the example of China, and give some of the levers of statehood, for our party nomenklatura it was something incomprehensible. We are used to people standing either on command "at attention" or on command "at ease" by order from above. he was harsh, and the fact that he attracted young people from the people. All the leaders of the 70-80s were of the Stalinist call. But for some reason they forgot that they were already trusted at the age of 30-40. And these were not technocrats, but aimed at improving the life of the people.
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 23 December 2020 12: 33
    0
    God, how many traitors are there in the country
  • A_Lex
    A_Lex 23 December 2020 15: 44
    0
    There are a lot of emotions in the comments. "A lump in the throat", "arrogance and arrogance of Muscovites", "colonial administration", "lawlessness", "squeezing out the national means of production", "renegades exchanged us", "Gorbachev promised, but deceived", "Stalin did not have time", " I am proud that I did not vote "," I am ashamed "," they rob the people, keep them in poverty and despise ".

    Comments of this kind are permeated with resentment. Emotionally, they are similar to the comments of children who express their rebuke to adults. Children are angry at the actions of adults that worsen the lives of children, express their complaints to them, reproach them, but there is nothing more except complaints. There is not even an elementary analysis of the reasons that led to the failure. Children are a priori convinced that they can do nothing but complain. Because they recognize that only adults have a mandate to act. And the eternal destiny of children is to obey adults and hope that the actions of adults will be in the interests of children.

    Children sincerely praise the USSR without realizing that a system whose stability depends on the personality of one person - Stalin - is an inadequate system, and therefore not a system at all. The "system" that exists as long as Stalin exists is not a system. If the “system” is tailored for a key person, then this “system” cannot be reproduced in any other team and in other conditions where this key person is absent.

    Children are sincerely outraged by the collapse of the USSR, and at the same time they do not understand how inadequate the stories about the eyes of millions (those who created the well-being of the whole country with their own hands and intellect), directed towards one person - Gorbachev - with the hope of preserving the state. Again, if one person with a handful of close associates can initiate the destruction of the system, after which millions will salute and accept the order for execution, even though millions themselves understand that they will lose from this, this is not a system.

    Therefore, there are 2 options for the further development of the situation.

    Or children remain children who voluntarily give their destiny into the hands of other children who appoint themselves as adults. But then you shouldn't complain about a bad life, which will certainly be bad, because in a state imprisoned for a luxurious life for a few, many do not and will not have a chance for a good life. And the only thing left for them is to patiently wait for the new Stalin, who will certainly make them beautiful.

    Either children remember that they are exactly the very same adults, since everything around is done by their hands, with all the ensuing consequences, which primarily consist in the realization that a complete refusal of responsibility for the system as a whole in favor of selected people, who are declared as management specialists are a crime against the system, and therefore against themselves.
  • demo
    demo 24 December 2020 06: 51
    0
    6.45. Sat down to the monitor.
    Read it.
    I wanted to drink 100 gr.
    With longing and pain for their country.

    The role of Gorbachev, Yeltsin and his successor has not yet been thoroughly studied and voiced by anyone.
    Specific helpers of the crime have not been named.
    There are no defined ways to stop all those problems that exist.
    The goals that are called - the national idea are not voiced.
    The worldview of nations and peoples has not been formed.
    Russia, by definition, continues to move forward.
    Only it is not clear where she will come with such a movement.
    Circling is also forward movement.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 31 December 2020 08: 55
    0
    DECLARED OF INDEPENDENCE:
    RSFSR June 12, 1990
    Uzbek SSR August 31, 1991
    Kazakh SSR December 16, 1991
    Kyrgyz SSR August 31, 1991
    Tajik SSR September 9, 1991
    Turkmen SSR October 27, 1991
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 31 December 2020 08: 56
    0
    March 26, 1991. Message from the USSR Central Referendum Commission
    On the results of the USSR referendum held on March 17, 1991
    The USSR Central Referendum Commission established:
    For the USSR as a whole:
    To the lists of citizens entitled to participate in the referendum of the USSR,
    185.647 people were included; took part in the voting
    148.574.606 people, or 80,0 percent.
    From them answered:
    “Yes” - 113.512.812 people, or 76,4 percent;
    “No” - 32.303.977 people, or 21,7 percent;
    Invalid - 2.757.817 ballots, or 1,9 percent.
    Referendum results by republic
    Uzbek SSR answered yes 93,7% answered no 5,2%
    Kazakh SSR answered yes 94,1% answered no 5%
    Kyrgyz SSR answered yes 94,1% answered no 4,0%
    Tajik SSR answered yes 96,2% answered no 3,1%
    Turkmen SSR answered yes 97,7% answered no 1.7%
    USSR CENTRAL REFERENDUM COMMISSION
    True. 1991 March.
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 31 December 2020 08: 57
    0
    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/obelarusi/3-byvshie-sovetskie-respubliki-kotorye-na-referendume-1991-goda-menshe-vsego-hoteli-sohranit-sssr-5ebfb757d47493232722d4ef
    3 former Soviet republics that least wanted to keep the USSR in the 1991 referendum
    16 May
    .29 years ago, the first and last all-Union referendum in the history of the USSR took place. It discussed the future of the world's largest state. The results of the referendum were of historic importance, even though they were ultimately disregarded.
    Deputies and people
    By the end of the 80s, the question of the future of the Soviet Union arose. The voices of those who insisted on its collapse and an independent path for the member states sounded louder and louder.
    The deputies of the 4th Congress of People's Deputies came to the conclusion about the need to preserve the USSR, but - as a renewed federation of republics. It was decided to ask what people think about this at the referendum.
    The question, which was put to a popular vote, was crafted. It sounded like "Do you consider it necessary to preserve the USSR as a renewed Federation of equal sovereign republics, in which the rights and freedoms of a person of any nationality will be fully guaranteed?"
    It was assumed that if the majority of residents answered "yes", then the Union will continue to exist. And so it happened, over 76% of the respondents gave a positive answer.
    How the voices split
    Voting results varied significantly across republics. For example, a very high level of support for the Union was declared by Kazakhs, Azerbaijanis, Kyrgyz, Tajiks, Turkmens, Uzbeks - over 90% of the votes.
    Oddly enough, the fewest supporters of the preservation of the USSR (in comparison with other republics) turned out to be in ... the BSSR, the Ukrainian SSR and the RSFSR. This is confirmed by statistics.
    Thus, among Belarusians, almost 83% of respondents voted for the preservation of the USSR, in the RSFSR this share was about 71%, and in Ukraine - only 70%.
    Results of the referendum by republic. Answered yes:
    BSSR - 82,7%,
    RSFSR - 71,3%,
    Ukrainian SSR - 70,2%.
    At that time, 31 million Belarusians, Russians and Ukrainians did not see a future for the Soviet Union.
    No statistics
    Unfortunately, we do not know how Moldovans, Georgians, Armenians, Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians would vote. In these countries, a general referendum was not held (Central election commissions were not even created there. Although individual point polls were still conducted, they cannot be considered 100% objective).
    We all remember how the story of the referendum ended.
    On August 20, 1991, the signing of an agreement was scheduled, which would form the basis of a renewed USSR. However, on the eve of the August putsch. The agreement was not signed, but on December 8, 1991, the heads of the RSFSR, the BSSR and the Ukrainian SSR signed the "Belovezhskaya Agreements". The USSR ceased to exist, and the Commonwealth of Independent States appeared instead.
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 31 December 2020 08: 59
    0
    http://www.sevkrimrus.narod.ru/ZAKON/1996-157.htm
    DECISION
    State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation
    dated March 15, 1996 No. 157-II GD
    On the legal force for the Russian Federation - Russia of the results of the USSR referendum
    March 17, 1991 on the issue of preserving the USSR
    Confirming the desire of the peoples of Russia for economic and political integration with the peoples of the states created on the territory of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, responding to numerous appeals of the constituent entities of the Russian Federation, taking into account the results of the referendum of the Republic of Belarus on May 14, 1995, with the aim of restoring the state unity of the peoples of the USSR in any mutually acceptable forms

    The State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation decides:
    1. To confirm for the Russian Federation - Russia the legal force of the results of the USSR referendum on the issue of preserving the USSR, which took place on the territory of the RSFSR on March 17, 1991.
    2. To note that the officials of the RSFSR, who prepared, signed and ratified the decision on the termination of the existence of the USSR, grossly violated the will of the peoples of Russia to preserve the USSR, expressed at the referendum of the USSR on March 17, 1991, as well as the Declaration of State Sovereignty of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, which proclaimed the aspiration of the peoples of Russia to create a democratic rule-of-law state within the renewed USSR.
    3. Confirm that the Agreement on the Establishment of the Commonwealth of Independent States of December 8, 1991, signed by the President of the RSFSR B.N. Yeltsin and the State Secretary of the RSFSR G.E.Burbulis and not approved by the Congress of People's Deputies of the RSFSR - the highest body of state power of the RSFSR, did not have and has no legal force in the part related to the termination of the existence of the USSR.
    4. Proceed from the fact that interstate and intergovernmental treaties on political, economic, defense and other issues, concluded within the framework of the Agreement on the Establishment of the Commonwealth of Independent States, remain in force for the states that have concluded them until their free and voluntary decision to re-establish a single state or until their decisions to terminate these agreements.
    5. To propose to the Government of the Russian Federation to take the necessary measures to preserve a single economic, political and information space, to develop and strengthen the integration ties of the states created on the territory of the USSR.
    6. Delegations of the State Duma to the Interparliamentary Assembly of Member States of the Commonwealth of Independent States to facilitate the transformation of the Interparliamentary Assembly into an effective instrument for the integration and cooperation of states created on the territory of the USSR.
    7. The committees of the State Duma shall develop and submit for consideration by the Council of the State Duma a set of measures to eliminate the consequences of the collapse of the USSR, primarily in relation to Soviet citizens who have not yet determined their nationality.
    Chairman of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation G. N. Seleznev
    March 15, 1996 No. 157-II GD
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 31 December 2020 09: 00
    0
    Federation Council reaction:
    Address of the Federation Council 19.03.1996/95/XNUMX No. XNUMX-SF
    "To the deputies of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation"
    Dear deputies of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation!
    The Federation Council of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation, supporting your desire to take all measures to accelerate the integration of the peoples of the states that were five years ago in the USSR, notes that the Resolutions of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation of March 15, 1996 No. 156-II GD, adopted by you "On the deepening of the integration of the peoples united in the USSR, and the abolition of the Resolution of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR of December 12, 1991" On the denunciation of the Treaty on the formation of the USSR "and of March 15, 1996 No. 157-II GD" On legal force for the Russian Federation - Russia, the results of the USSR referendum on March 17, 1991 on the issue of preserving the USSR "may cause certain difficulties on the way to this noble goal. This is confirmed by the cautious and even negative reaction of a number of statesmen and public figures of the member states of the Commonwealth of Independent States.
    We are convinced that it is possible to promote the deepening of integration processes only on the basis of coordinated actions by all state authorities of the Russian Federation, coordination of their efforts with partners in the Commonwealth of Independent States.
    Realizing that the real economic interests of the peoples of Russia and the republics of the former USSR are an incomparably greater incentive for their unification than any decisions and statements of politicians, we appeal to you with a request to return to the consideration of these acts and once again carefully analyze the possible consequences of their adoption.
    Federation Council of the Federal Assembly, 19.03.1996 No. 95-SF
    http://bestpravo.ru/rossijskoje/er-pravo/a9r.htm
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 31 December 2020 09: 01
    0
    DECISION
    State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation
    dated April 10, 1996 No. 225-II GD
    On the Address of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation
    "To members of the Federation Council of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation"
    The State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation decides:
    Adopt the Appeal of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation "To the members of the Federation Council of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation".
    Chairman of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation G. N. Seleznev
    10.04.1996 No. 225-II GD
    http://bestpravo.ru/rossijskoje/er-gosudarstvo/q2v.htm
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 31 December 2020 09: 02
    0
    The State Duma's answer to the EBN hysteria:

    DECISION
    State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation
    dated April 10, 1996 No. 226-II GD
    On the stability of the legal system of the Russian Federation Legislation of Russia
    After the State Duma adopted Resolutions of March 15, 1996 N 156-II GD "On deepening the integration of peoples united in the USSR, and the abolition of the Resolution of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR of December 12, 1991" On denunciation of the Treaty on the formation of the USSR "and N 157- II State Duma "On the Legal Force for the Russian Federation - Russia of the Results of the USSR Referendum on March 17, 1991 on the Preservation of the USSR" a legal conflict arose related to the broad interpretation of the adopted Resolutions.

    In order to eliminate the contradiction that has arisen and correctly interpret the above-mentioned Resolutions, the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation decides:
    1. To confirm that the said Resolutions of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation of March 15, 1996 reflect the civil and political position of the deputies and do not affect the stability of the legal system of the Russian Federation and the international obligations of the Russian Federation.
    2. To recommend the President of the Russian Federation BN Yeltsin to withdraw the draft federal law "On ensuring the stability of the legal system of the Russian Federation and confirmation of Russia's international obligations" submitted to the State Duma.
    Chairman of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation G. N. Seleznev
    10.04.1996 N 226-II GD
    http://bestpravo.ru/rossijskoje/rf-zakony/u5o.htm
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 31 December 2020 09: 02
    0
    On the hysterics of Azerbaijan:

    DECISION
    State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation
    dated April 10, 1996 No. 227-II GD
    On the Statement of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation
    "In connection with the reaction in the member states of the Commonwealth of Independent States
    for the adoption by the State Duma on March 15, 1996 of Resolutions N 156-II GD and N 157-II GD
    The State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation decides:
    1. Adopt the Statement of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation "In connection with the reaction in the member states of the Commonwealth of Independent States to the adoption by the State Duma on March 15, 1996 of Resolutions N 156-II GD and N 157-II GD".
    2. To instruct the Chairman of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation GN Seleznev to send the said Statement to the President of the Russian Federation BN Yeltsin, Chairman of the National Assembly of the Republic of Azerbaijan RB Guliyev.
    3. Publish this Resolution and the said Statement in the next issue of Rossiyskaya Gazeta.
    Chairman of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation G. N. Seleznev
    10.04.1996 N 227-II GD
    http://bestpravo.ru/rossijskoje/er-gosudarstvo/a7b.htm
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 31 December 2020 09: 03
    0
    State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation
    STATEMENT of April 10 1996
    IN CONNECTION WITH THE REACTION IN THE MEMBER STATES OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF INDEPENDENT STATES TO THE ADOPTION BY THE STATE DUMA OF MARCH 15, 1996 OF DECISIONS N 156-II GD AND N 157-II GD
    State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation,
    expressing the will and sentiments of the majority of voters in Russia,
    Desiring to restore in full the fundamental principle of democracy, grossly violated during the signing and ratification of the so-called Belovezhskaya Agreement of December 8, 1991,
    aiming to open the way for large-scale integration and create an appropriate legal basis for the phased re-establishment of the state unity of the peoples previously united in the USSR,
    in any mutually acceptable forms, on the principles of voluntariness and equality,
    On March 15, 1996, adopted Resolution No. 156-II GD "On deepening the integration of peoples united in the USSR, and the abolition of the Resolution of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR of December 12, 1991" On the denunciation of the Treaty on the formation of the USSR "and No. 157-II GD" On the legal force for the Russian Federation - Russia of the results of the USSR referendum on March 17, 1991 on the issue of preserving the USSR ".
    The sincere desire of the majority of the State Duma deputies who voted in favor of these Resolutions to facilitate the acceleration and deepening of the integration of the peoples of the republics that in the recent past constituted a great world power - the USSR, was, on the whole, adequately perceived not only by the public in Russia, but also by broad strata of the population of other member states Commonwealth of Independent States.
    The State Duma notes with satisfaction that the Resolutions it adopted gave an impetus to a sharp intensification of the activities of state authorities of Russia and other member states of the Commonwealth of Independent States to find optimal ways of rapprochement in the current conditions, as evidenced by the signed by the Presidents of the Russian Federation, the Republic of Belarus, the Republic of Kazakhstan and Kyrgyz Republic March 29, 1996 Treaty on deepening integration in the economic and humanitarian fields.
    We especially welcome and support the initiative of the Presidents of Russia and Belarus to create a Community, enshrined in the Treaty of April 2, 1996, seeing in it a decisive step towards the reunification of fraternal peoples on a new basis.

    A clear dissonance against this background looks like a biased, sometimes inadequate to the content of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation, the reaction of a number of statesmen and public figures of the near abroad, who did not want to see in these documents nothing but some kind of "threat" from Russia. This is the only way to assess the statements and statements in this regard, in particular by the presidents of the Republic of Georgia, the Republic of Uzbekistan, the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Moldova.
    The deputies of the State Duma, with bewilderment and deep regret, state that our colleagues - the deputies of the National Assembly of the Republic of Azerbaijan - have joined the camp of opponents of integration, who adopted a statement on their attitude to the Resolutions of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation on March 19, 1996. The assessments given in the statement on behalf of the Azerbaijani people are at least inadequate to the spirit and letter of the State Duma Resolutions. Certain provisions of the statement represent an attempt at undisguised interference in the internal affairs of Russia and contain ultimatum demands against the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation. Moreover, the statement of the National Assembly of the Republic of Azerbaijan emphasizes that the State Duma "denounced" the so-called Belovezhskaya agreement. This indicates either that the deputies of the National Assembly of the Republic of Azerbaijan were not familiar with the texts of the Resolutions of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation dated March 15, 1996, or about deliberately misleading them. The statement contained in the statement on "military aggression of the RSFSR against Azerbaijan in April 1920" causes, to put it mildly, our bewilderment. This is absolutely unacceptable in the relations of civilized states, especially their legislators, and in case of repetition, it can have the most negative consequences for our fraternal peoples.
    At the same time, the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation once again reaffirms its consistent line on accelerating the integration process in the Commonwealth of Independent States in any mutually acceptable forms, testifies to its deep respect for the National Assembly of the Republic of Azerbaijan.

    Chairman of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation G. N. Seleznev
    10.04.1996 N 227-II GD
    http://bestpravo.ru/rossijskoje/er-gosudarstvo/a7b.htm
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 5 January 2021 19: 54
    0
    DECLARED OF INDEPENDENCE:
    RSFSR June 12, 1990
    Uzbek SSR August 31, 1991
    Kazakh SSR December 16, 1991
    Kyrgyz SSR August 31, 1991
    Tajik SSR September 9, 1991
    Turkmen SSR October 27, 1991
  • rozman
    rozman 7 January 2021 14: 56
    0
    ... There is no dispute that it is possible and even should give the peoples an opportunity to partake of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, but one must hold this fruit with a firm hand and, moreover, in such a way that it can be taken away from lips that are too tasty at any time. ... 1870 Saltykov-Shchedrin "The history of one city". In this case, there was no such "firm hand"
  • Rafil Valiev
    Rafil Valiev 31 January 2021 10: 48
    0
    A troika rushes across Russia - Mishka, Raika, Perestroika ... Immediately the Reactor crashed, the motor ship was drowned, the Airplane was missed ...
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 7 February 2021 01: 24
    0
    In her talk given in November 1991 at the meeting of the American Petroleum Institute, IPA, in Houston, Texas, M. Thatcher stated the following:

    “The Soviet Union is a country that posed a serious threat to the Western world. I’m not talking about a military threat. In fact, it didn’t exist. Our countries are quite well armed, including with nuclear weapons. I mean an economic threat. Thanks to the planned policy and a peculiar combination of moral and material incentives, the Soviet Union managed to achieve high economic indicators. The percentage of growth in the gross national product was about twice as high as in our countries. If we take into account the enormous natural resources of the USSR, then with rational economic management the Soviet The Union had very real opportunities to oust us from world markets. Therefore, we have always taken actions aimed at weakening the economy of the Soviet Union and creating internal difficulties for it. "
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 7 February 2021 01: 25
    0
    The famous diplomat Henry Kissinger said that at the age of 96 he had become disillusioned with the ideas of capitalism and considered the greatest sin of the United States "systematic destruction of the only just world state - the Soviet Union."
    According to Kissinger, this thought was prompted by the behavior of his own grandchildren.
    “Modern people have everything and at the same time they have nothing. Nothing pleases us, we are not really happy. A Soviet person could sincerely rejoice in such simple things as jeans, toilet paper or raw smoked sausage, and therefore lived fully, breathed deeply. We corrupted him, opened the door for him to the world where the animal laws of capitalism were hidden behind the bright bait of abundance, ”he said.
    The diplomat stressed that it took him many years to understand that happiness does not lie in everyday well-being.
    “We only had sex, and they had love. We only had money, and they had sincere human gratitude. And so in everything. I can hardly be called a fan of socialism, I am a Western person with Western thinking, but I believe that a new person was really born in the Soviet Union, one might say - homo soveticus. This man was one step higher than us and I am sorry that we destroyed this reserve. Perhaps this is our greatest crime, ”he concluded.
  • Evgeny Seleznev
    Evgeny Seleznev 23 February 2021 20: 00
    0
    Gorbatov should have been killed. This brute killed the Empire and still lives.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • LIB
    LIB 15 March 2021 10: 53
    0
    Gorbachev and Putin must be executed.