Military Review

How to overcome the Russian air defense: IISS revealed the capabilities of Europe

120

So far, a full-scale war between NATO and Russia remains a distant possibility, although it no longer seems inconceivable to Western military and experts. One of the areas of analysis of NATO experts: how to overcome the air defense of Russia.


Forces against Russia


It is likely, although still unlikely, that there would be a geographically limited conflict involving conventional forces.

- writes the Defense and Military Analysis Group of the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), believing that in the event of a non-nuclear confrontation, it is controversial whether NATO has sufficient potential to immediately and effectively counter Russian GBAD [mobile ground air defense systems].

The European Air Force will not need to attack around the entire perimeter. Instead, it would be sufficient to suppress the defense to breach a hole in the defense through relatively weakly defended points.

- experts point out.

In their words, it would allow aviation act in relative safety to continue the offensive and to attack other targets, which "of course presupposes the elimination of any threat from Russia in the air."

At the same time, NATO forces in Europe have about 1600 aircraft, of which only 59 SEAD / DEAD units - aircraft specialized in the suppression and destruction of air defense. These include 35 Tornado ECRs operated by the German and Italian Air Forces, as well as 24 F-16CJs deployed by the United States Air Force in the Federal Republic of Germany.

Again, this number does not include US aircraft that could be deployed during periods of increased tension or hostilities [...] Are there enough assets?

- ask the question in IISS.

How to overcome the Russian air defense: IISS revealed the capabilities of Europe


Past experience


As explained, during Operation Desert Storm in 1991, the US-led coalition deployed over 4400 combat aircraft, of which 110 were SEAD platforms, 22 were special electronic warfare aircraft aimed at enemy communications, 10 were SIGINT [electronic intelligence]. In 1995 NATO conducted Operation Deliberate Force. It was attended by about 600 aircraft, including 34 SEAD platforms and 10 SIGINT. In 1999, within the framework of Operation Allied Force, 1191 aircraft were involved, in particular 127 SEAD, 2 electronic warfare aircraft and 10 SIGINT aircraft. In 2003, during Operation Iraqi Freedom, out of a fleet of 2697 aircraft, 82 were SEAD platforms, 5 were responsible for electronic warfare and 14 for electronic intelligence. In 2011, as part of Operation Unified (Libya), 290 aircraft were deployed, including 23 SEAD aircraft, one electronic warfare platform and 5 SIGINT.

Analysts reveal the possibilities of Europe. In their opinion, such opportunities are not enough.

And none of these campaigns met with threats from GBAD [mobile ground air defense systems] like the one carried by the Russian ground forces [...] The basic assumption is, of course, that American support will arrive

- note in the IISS, believing that the forces deployed in Europe are clearly not enough to overcome the Russian air defense. In other words, analysts make it clear that without the efforts of the United States, a breakthrough of the Russian air defense system by the Europeans is impossible.

Table:

Photos used:
IISS website
120 comments
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  1. Victor_B
    Victor_B 14 December 2020 11: 35
    +2
    Well, right, dreaming!
    But to try - the gut is thin!
    They are planning, downright Napoleonic. As if we don't have aviation and missiles at their air bases to restore order!
    About vigorous loaves, I generally keep quiet!
    1. Temples
      Temples 14 December 2020 11: 40
      +43
      Leaving Europe alive next time would be a crime against posterity. These creatures cannot calm down.
      Leopard change his spots.

      Socialist countries, brother countries are a utopia.
      History has put everything in its place
      1. neri73-r
        neri73-r 14 December 2020 11: 52
        +18
        Quote: Temples
        Leaving Europe alive next time would be a crime against posterity. These creatures cannot calm down.
        Leopard change his spots.

        Socialist countries, brother countries are a utopia.
        History has put everything in its place

        These are the same thoughts that seem to come, as if not humanly, but history makes you think differently.
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 14 December 2020 12: 04
        +12
        Quote: Temples

        +2
        Leaving Europe alive next time would be a crime against posterity. These creatures cannot calm down.

        It seems in 1945 everything was cut off to the fullest, it would seem they were full, but no, they licked the wounds and fluffed the feathers again. Well insatiable!
        1. Ros 56
          Ros 56 14 December 2020 12: 39
          +15
          Hence the conclusion, in order to avoid this in the future, these insatiable must be multiplied by zero so that our grandchildren and great-grandchildren can live peacefully.
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 14 December 2020 12: 55
            +3
            Hence the conclusion, in order to avoid this in the future, these insatiable must be multiplied by zero

            What is needed is to establish and develop order in the country.
            To keep the army and navy in combat readiness. yes
            And this: "... we will destroy the whole world of violence to the ground, and then ..." - the passed stage. It doesn't work that way. The world is arranged differently. hi
            1. Ros 56
              Ros 56 14 December 2020 13: 04
              +4
              What are you talking about, how does it work, look at how striped everywhere put their paws.
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 14 December 2020 13: 52
                +4
                So they first did the Fed on December 23, 1913. wink
                Cash in on 2 world wars.
                They made a nuclear bomb. The fleet was built.
                And only then they began to push everyone.
                This path is not an option for us. hi
                China went its own way. And we need ours.
                1. silver_roman
                  silver_roman 19 December 2020 12: 17
                  0
                  And we don't even have an ideology. It is actually prohibited in the constitution.
      3. businessv
        businessv 15 December 2020 18: 39
        +1
        Quote: Temples
        Leaving Europe alive next time would be a crime against posterity.
        It's hard to disagree, colleague! But the lead violin is played by an Englishwoman who always shits! Here is the root, removing which, it will be possible to finish off the evil that remains in Europe. Then the minke whales will be more passive - there will be no one to rely on.
    2. Svarog
      Svarog 14 December 2020 11: 46
      -9
      Quote: Victor_B
      Well, right, dreaming!

      Drones can destroy air defense systems, and this is the most pressing problem today ..
      But to try - the gut is thin!

      They are trying .. in Syria and in Karabakh .. all these are samples.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 14 December 2020 11: 52
        +14
        Well, if only it happens that they will be assembled under a single command at certain points to ensure that it is possible to do this. such preparations will be seen immediately. any concentration of forces has consequences. such preparations are impossible to overlook. no one will wait until they reach the points of impact. the beginning of the movement will be regarded as an attack with all the consequences.
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 14 December 2020 11: 54
          -5
          Quote: carstorm 11
          Well, if only it happens that they will be assembled under a single command at certain points to guarantee it was possible to do this. such preparations will be seen immediately

          Well, yes .. our air defense is not vulnerable .. stop already shapkozakidatelny moods, drones are a problem that our military leadership recognizes and is actively looking for methods of struggle.
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 14 December 2020 12: 04
            +9
            What does the invulnerability of air defense have to do with it? A massive air attack is being prepared. Single UAVs will not be able to do anything. Only spy forces are capable of this. Do you think someone will wait until they reach the strike area? To extinguish air defense, for example in Kaliningrad, can you imagine how much money needs to be used?
      2. KCA
        KCA 14 December 2020 12: 04
        +11
        And how do you imagine the destruction of air defense using drones in the event of a global conflict? There will be no communication satellites in orbit at all, neutron ammunition, it seems, was recognized as ineffective, but who can confidently say that there are no more of them on the A-135? do you want How were AGM-150 super-duper stealth missiles delivered from Syria entirely, without damage, the batteries sat down and fell on their own? On TV then they were shown from all angles, it does not smell like fake
        1. Avior
          Avior 14 December 2020 13: 02
          +4
          There will be no communication satellites in orbit at all

          Where will they go? Do you think it is possible to shoot down communication satellites at an altitude of thousands of kilometers?
          Will capture low-orbit satellites
          and even then not in every conflict. so far, in any case, this has not happened.
          1. KCA
            KCA 14 December 2020 13: 28
            0
            Why shoot down communication satellites? A couple of megatons will collapse satellites, and at a distance of 39 km of geostationary orbit, nothing interferes with the emission of neutrons or gamma rays in space, but the equipment will be covered with a blanket, and, as we know, a couple of megatons are tears, compared to 000 megatons
            1. Avior
              Avior 14 December 2020 16: 01
              +6
              Why would it suddenly?
              Energy density falls according to the inverse square law
              That is, after a thousand meters, it falls a million times.
              Therefore, it makes no sense to make neutron weapons powerful. There is no question of even hundreds of kilometers of action.
              1. KCA
                KCA 14 December 2020 16: 41
                -3
                I am not a physicist, but under my window the IBR-2, there is a reflector that opens neutron beams, the length of the neutron guide is 3 km, and the power of the IBR-2 is only 2 MGW, the neutron beam is several times less, the neutron guide is filled with simple atmospheric air, the neutron beams are completely not explosive, if they fly 3 km in the atmosphere, how far and with what power do neutrons and radiation fly in a thermonuclear explosion in a vacuum ?? Do not forget, several megatons of TNT equivalent, the radiation power is appropriate
                1. Avior
                  Avior 14 December 2020 17: 13
                  +3
                  do you think it is possible to lay a neutron guide in space to each satellite?
                  There will be no directional radiation.
                  And if radiation propagates in all directions, then the same power will spread over the surface area of ​​a sphere with a radius equal to the propagation length.
                  This is the general rule for radiation.
                  https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Закон_обратных_квадратов

                  The power will not be critical, since the radiation will be attenuated in inverse proportion to the square of the distance. The problem is squared.
            2. Volder
              Volder 16 December 2020 20: 02
              -1
              Quote: KCA
              A couple of megatons will collapse satellites and at a distance of 39 km of the geostationary orbit, nothing interferes with the emission of neutrons or gamma rays in space, but the equipment will be covered by a jam,
              You forget that not only satellites of the attacking enemy, but also other countries, as well as Russian satellites fly in orbit. It is unlikely that it will be possible not to touch the neighboring satellites ...
      3. Hagen
        Hagen 14 December 2020 12: 12
        +5
        Quote: Svarog
        They are trying .. in Syria and in Karabakh .. all these are samples.

        Given these tests, I think in the near future there will be a question of equipping air defense forces against attack UAVs with anti-aircraft artillery in caliber 76-85 mm with programmed detonation ammunition. At 8200 meters, the AU-220 is no longer relevant. And it is better, I think, to worry about it in advance.
      4. Cottodraton
        Cottodraton 14 December 2020 12: 43
        0
        You already have dronephilia, take it easy
      5. businessv
        businessv 15 December 2020 18: 44
        +1
        Quote: Svarog
        They are trying .. in Syria and in Karabakh .. all these are samples.

        I don’t understand why you were instructed on sleepers! You quite rightly write about the attempts of the West to break through the capabilities of our air defense system in combat conditions. It's not a secret for anyone, why deny the obvious? request
    3. Orange bigg
      Orange bigg 14 December 2020 11: 52
      0
      How to overcome the Russian air defense: IISS revealed the capabilities of Europe

      Suicidal dreamers are confident in their imaginary superiority and impunity. In short, they are not afraid ... not good people.
      And what did they not consider a response to suppress the air defense of Europe, or do they not even mean this? Then they need to prepare to intercept not only Russian Aerospace Forces aircraft, but also KR Caliber, 9M729, Kh-555 / Kh-101 / Kh-50, BR Dagger Iskander-M, Yars, Sineva, Bulava. And to build bunkers for yourself. The radiation after the use of such missiles in Europe will go off scale. With this report, they show their complete lack of understanding of the consequences of such a situation and the possibilities of the parties. Like children directly. fool
      1. businessv
        businessv 15 December 2020 18: 48
        +1
        Quote: OrangeBigg
        With this report, they show their complete lack of understanding of the consequences of such a situation and the capabilities of the parties.

        And this is actually the case! Many modern Western politicians are not at all aware of the consequences of the use of nuclear weapons! After all, they believe that they defeated Germany and Japan with nuclear weapons, and we are not at all in business!
    4. Kart
      Kart 14 December 2020 11: 55
      +1
      Quote: Victor_B
      They are planning, downright Napoleonic. As if we don't have aviation and missiles at their air bases to restore order!
      About vigorous loaves, I generally keep quiet!

      Their propaganda strenuously assures the population that Russia will by no means use nuclear weapons. And even if it does, it will not lead to significant losses.
      They are happily echoed by domestic fighters with regards, singing the same thing.
      As soon as everyone believes, they will start immediately.
      1. Orange bigg
        Orange bigg 14 December 2020 12: 15
        +1
        Drug addicts. In a fairy tale they want to believe that there are rockets with special parts, but they suddenly won't take off from a fig, and if they do, then it's okay. They urgently need to write a referral to a narcologist.
      2. Keyser soze
        Keyser soze 14 December 2020 12: 45
        +11
        Their propaganda strenuously assures the population that Russia ...


        Believe it or not, ... no one here or in those European publications that I read (Politico, Guardian) is interested in Russia. Everyone is busy with influenza, vaccination starting, economy and internal affairs. Well, here, there the news about Putin slips in, in the bunker and how he does not want to be vaccinated with your vaccine, but everything is absolutely purple. Due to a 30-year decline in education, the population was divided into different types of anti-Auxer thugs, BillGates-5G undercooked at the stage of conception, and all sorts of other Internet academics, so that Russia will not make its way to the top news, through the barricades of lock-down supporters and opponents of closing trade centers, as media without which all trade will die. It is enough that the taverns and bars have been closed and there is nowhere to drink with friends - in itself it is worse than a nuclear missile.

        In general, the circus tent is on tour.
      3. KCA
        KCA 14 December 2020 14: 01
        +1
        Yes, somehow they think that 200Kt with a TU-160 or TU-95MS or Caliber is just a little more than 10 times more than a bomb in Hiroshima, but they do not know, or do not want to know that an increase in the explosion power by 10 times this is not damage 10 times, at least 30, in fact, several Iskander-Ms are enough for them, they showed what the ancient Tochka-U is doing, a pit 30x15 meters
        1. Fan-fan
          Fan-fan 14 December 2020 20: 16
          -1
          Dear, enough to tell a fairy tale, have not tried to read about the damaging factors of nuclear weapons. There are many articles on the Internet.
    5. Kuroneko
      Kuroneko 14 December 2020 14: 26
      +6
      Quote: Victor_B
      But to try - the gut is thin!

      Don't worry, the West is very serious about trying to solve this problem. And the coming war is already on the doorstep.
      Quote: Victor_B
      They are planning, downright Napoleonic. As if we don't have aviation and missiles at their air bases to restore order!

      In total, NATO air forces exceed our fleet by about an order of magnitude (I'm not even talking about the quantity and quality of their AWACS aircraft). In fact, we have only parity in tanks, and surpass NATO in artillery. Well, air defense, of course. In all other respects we are losing, and strong. And the hope for a new wunderwaffe - well, remember what this led to the Third Reich. So it is not for nothing that the Russian Federation's defensive doctrine in a global conflict spells out the mandatory use of nuclear weapons. In theory, even the use of TNW from the exclave-Kaliningrad is already capable of enlightening many.
    6. silver_roman
      silver_roman 19 December 2020 12: 15
      0
      is it thin? have already tried and not once. I would not like it again. We must clearly understand that in the 41st half of Europe attacked us.
  2. svp67
    svp67 14 December 2020 11: 36
    +11
    You can break everything, including the air defense system of the army of the Russian Federation, the question is the price of the issue. Is the other side ready to suffer losses and face the challenge of the beginning of the nuclear-missile confrontation?
    1. Imobile
      Imobile 14 December 2020 12: 14
      -8
      And the Russians are ready to go on the attack shouting "For Putin"?
      1. svp67
        svp67 14 December 2020 12: 26
        +8
        Quote: Imobile
        Are the Russians ready to go on the attack shouting "For Putin"?

        And "For the Motherland, for loved ones, for children." How do you think they will go?
        1. Fan-fan
          Fan-fan 14 December 2020 20: 17
          -1
          Not everyone will go, since the rich have children and their homeland is not at all here.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Orange bigg
        Orange bigg 14 December 2020 12: 27
        +1
        There are missiles and they will go on the attack. Now is not the time of WWII. You with tactics were 70-80 years late.
      3. Ros 56
        Ros 56 14 December 2020 12: 35
        -1
        Why are you so primitive, they don't go on the attack now. fool
      4. LiSiCyn
        LiSiCyn 14 December 2020 13: 26
        +6
        Quote: Imobile
        Are the Russians ready to attack with shouts "For Putin"?

        The Russians will attack with a shout, For the Motherland !!! And they always walked like that. True, they also added non-printed expressions.
        1. Ugochaves
          Ugochaves 15 December 2020 06: 13
          0
          Well, actually, then, and "for the king, for the fatherland" was
          1. LiSiCyn
            LiSiCyn 15 December 2020 07: 14
            0
            Quote: UgoChaves
            Well, actually, then, and "for the king, for the fatherland" was

            The first word was, For Faith. hi
            1. Imobile
              Imobile 15 December 2020 08: 32
              -7
              In 40 years they will say that they walked for Putin with shouts
  3. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 14 December 2020 11: 36
    +9
    Well, the theory has not yet been canceled, but I hope that no one will be wise (or mad) to practice.
  4. Guards turn
    Guards turn 14 December 2020 11: 39
    +1
    The Tula "Pantsiri" repulsed the conditional attack on the Kaliningrad region. The attack of the conditional enemy on the Kaliningrad region was repelled by the servicemen of the Baltic Fleet. This is reported by the RF Ministry of Defense.

    Combat crews during the exercises were sent to the areas where the Pantsir-S1 air defense missile system performed the tasks of covering the positions of the S-400 missile systems.
  5. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 14 December 2020 11: 50
    +5
    To push through our air defense, all these tricks are not needed. NATO will simply rummage through the junk dumps and launch whatever it gets towards our borders. Automatic take-off and straight-line follow-up were implemented God knows when, even on reels, and even now it is possible to rivet a couple of thousand primitive control modules in a week without straining. After repelling the attack (it is really an attack. It's not difficult to load the air traffic with explosives and weapons), we will simply run out of missiles. And then...
    1. Avior
      Avior 14 December 2020 12: 14
      +5
      false targets have long been in service
      for example


      ADM-160 MALD


      ADM-141
      There are also towed traps
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 14 December 2020 12: 15
        +3
        Of course. But why waste money and resources on their production, all the more alarming the enemy? It is much cheaper to unload landfills, and NATO is very clever about money.
        1. Avior
          Avior 14 December 2020 12: 27
          +6
          Could be so. Of course, not all of them will fly.
          But after repair, many.

          1. Fan-fan
            Fan-fan 14 December 2020 20: 20
            -2
            We just don't have enough missiles to shoot it all down. Moreover, a primitive drone aircraft is cheaper than our anti-aircraft missile.
            1. huntsman650
              huntsman650 14 December 2020 23: 08
              0
              One rocket with 400 with a special charge and everything will fall)))
    2. Orange bigg
      Orange bigg 14 December 2020 12: 32
      +4
      Quote: Mikhail3
      To push through our air defense, all these tricks are not needed. NATO will simply rummage through the junk dumps and launch whatever it gets towards our borders. Automatic take-off and straight-line follow-up were implemented God knows when, even on reels, and even now it is possible to rivet a couple of thousand primitive control modules in a week without straining. After repelling the attack (it is really an attack. It's not difficult to load the air traffic with explosives and weapons), we will simply run out of missiles. And then...

      Do you forget that as soon as such an attack is detected on the radars, then there will immediately be a counter-strike from everything that is on known targets, or you are not aware of the military doctrine of the Russian Federation? So leave your fantasies on the topic
      And then...
      1. Avior
        Avior 14 December 2020 12: 39
        +3
        will there be a retaliatory strike from everything that is on known targets, or you are not aware of the military doctrine of the Russian Federation?

        are you sure? can you indicate the points of military doctrine?
        http://kremlin.ru/supplement/461
        1. Orange bigg
          Orange bigg 14 December 2020 12: 50
          +3
          Quote: Avior
          will there be a retaliatory strike from everything that is on known targets, or you are not aware of the military doctrine of the Russian Federation?

          are you sure? can you indicate the points of military doctrine?
          http://kremlin.ru/supplement/461


          You are trying to deny the obvious. On what grounds? Someone drove over your ears and you began to believe that the country which will be attacked will not take any retaliatory action? Sorry, but your belief is akin to the belief of drug addicts, who, under the thicket, think that they are now on the nth floor come out of the window and suddenly fly, not fall. The result is obvious. Forgot the Cuban missile crisis?
          "SP": - We really should abandon the doctrine of retaliatory strike and go to the doctrine of preemptive strike?

          - President Vladimir Putin said that our concept is a retaliatory nuclear strike. But you have to understand: this concerns a hypothetical situation when a large number of nuclear missiles were launched across Russia, for no reason at all. But in practice, such a situation will most likely never arise.

          https://newsland.com/user/4296711758/content/rossii-pridetsia-pereiti-k-doktrine-uprezhdaiushchego-udara/6541163
          1. Avior
            Avior 14 December 2020 12: 54
            +1
            the article deals with a limited regional conflict without the use of nuclear weapons.
            nothing to do with the situation
            when a large number of nuclear missiles were launched across Russia - for no reason at all.

            Where did you get the idea that the military doctrine provides in this case, a global retaliatory nuclear strike?
            1. Orange bigg
              Orange bigg 14 December 2020 13: 07
              +1
              I answered a quote.
              After repelling the attack (it is really an attack. It's not difficult to load the air traffic with explosives and weapons), we will simply run out of missiles. And then...

              That is, in the event of a direct attack on us. And now you are talking about.
              the article deals with a limited regional conflict without the use of nuclear weapons.
              nothing to do with the situation

              But you do not take into account the fact that when the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation is infringed upon, the use of nuclear weapons is officially allowed. With a threat to territorial integrity, there is no difference at least a regional conflict, even if not a regional one. The only difference is in the number and quality of missiles.
              1. Avior
                Avior 14 December 2020 13: 20
                +1
                it originally dealt with an attack without the use of nuclear weapons.
                when infringing on the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation, the use of nuclear weapons is officially allowed

                far from everyone.
                only such that threatens the existence of the Russian Federation. but here there is no such question.
                The Russian Federation reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction against it and (or) its allies, as well as in the case of aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons, when the very existence of the state is threatened.

                The decision on the use of nuclear weapons is made by the President of the Russian Federation.

                point 22
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 14 December 2020 12: 48
        +8
        Quote: OrangeBigg
        there will be a retaliatory strike from everything that is on known targets

        Everything is correct. No one will wait and fight off trash or not trash ... let's start leveling everything from where it flew and from where the teams went to attack.
        I don’t understand in any way when this nonsense will end, that they will attack us, but we will calmly fight back ???
        1. Orange bigg
          Orange bigg 14 December 2020 13: 00
          +2
          Quote: rocket757
          Quote: OrangeBigg
          there will be a retaliatory strike from everything that is on known targets

          Everything is correct. No one will wait and fight off trash or not trash ... let's start leveling everything from where it flew and from where the teams went to attack.
          I don’t understand in any way when this nonsense will end, that they will attack us, but we will calmly fight back ???

          So this experience of the West's wars with Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya prompts some people. They are used to such wars and do not want to lose the habit.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 14 December 2020 13: 12
            +3
            By the way, they are writing about some kind of regional affairs between us and SOMETHING ... I wonder why they think that SOMEONE will not receive tactical vigorous kumpol ???
            Who is this WHO THAT can be ???
            There is no need to talk about every little thing pot-bellied .... they of course can yank from under the fence, but no more .... who then remains?
            Again a bunch of full deb / BI \ loids !!! well, they will receive it as before.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 14 December 2020 13: 11
        +3
        Do you forget that as soon as such an attack is detected on the radars, then there will immediately be a counter-strike from everything that is on known targets, or you are not aware of the military doctrine of the Russian Federation? So leave your fantasies on the topic
        Of course, I'm not too happy with my memory, but it's still not that short. I am aware that the blow will go. That's just ... In general, if everything does not work out perfectly, and it does not work out, NATO will have enough funds to continue the war. NATO, it is big) And we will never cover all the sites (and even half). And if a nuclear strike for continuous suppression does not follow from our side, and in the shortest possible time, then our air defense will be pushed through, most likely in the way I described. So leave your categorical tone. Look hefty funny ...
        1. Orange bigg
          Orange bigg 14 December 2020 13: 27
          0
          You look funny with your unshakable faith in a big NATO. A big giraffe knows better to him? Let me remind you of the spring of 2018. The strike of the Kyrgyz Republic on Syria. And where there was that big NATO. The Americans managed to woo not all their allies with grief. Only France, Great Britain and The United States participated in the strike of the Kyrgyz Republic on Syria. The rest gave the back. So NATO is big when everything is good, but as it smells fried, the ranks will noticeably thin out. Who helped the Kurds when the Iranians and Turks crushed them? France was indignant and that was all.
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 14 December 2020 14: 09
            0
            If you stick a small splinter in the elephant's ass, it will scratch slightly. If you shoot him, he attacks. Syria and other trifles are just another target of robbery, and besides the United States, no one there hoped to grab a piece. That is, the US pies and donuts, the rest - bruises and bumps. It is difficult to expect sincere help from the allies on such conditions.
            The collapse of the USSR gave NATO countries nearly 30 years of prosperity. The destruction of Russia will give another 10-15 years, not to mention the most important thing - the opportunity to get out of the next grandiose crisis right now. Think. It hurts and shortens life. But so cool!)
            1. Orange bigg
              Orange bigg 14 December 2020 15: 13
              -3
              The collapse of the USSR gave NATO countries nearly 30 years of prosperity.

              NATO countries flourished through lending, i.e. accumulating debts and printing papers by Americans.
              cheating account. Both before the collapse of the USSR and after the collapse of the USSR. It's just that after the collapse of the OVD, the sales market expanded somewhat, but this is not the main reason for prosperity. The Bretton Woods system is the basis for the prosperity of the West. Oil prices are artificially inflated and sold only for green paper, the value of which is provided by oil and, as a result, the status of the dollar as a world reserve currency, and if this is so, you can print green candy wrappers as long as you like and live on this This is the guarantee of the West's wealth. Just the collapse of the USSR made it possible to perfect this system. And strangely enough, the United States has the largest budget in recent years when Russia is not under its control. When the West essentially ruled Russia in the 90s, the United States has such a budget. was not. So your thesis at the root
              The destruction of Russia will give another 10-15 years, not to mention the most important thing - the opportunity to get out of the next grandiose crisis right now.
              is not true, but a possible war will destroy this entire system to its foundations.
              1. Mikhail3
                Mikhail3 14 December 2020 16: 07
                +5
                It doesn't matter how Western civilization flourished, in this case it doesn't matter. Only their motivation is important. Do you doubt that in order to preserve their prosperity, they will commit absolutely any atrocities? Or do you not think that the USSR was plundered for their benefit? My thesis is still true, alas. This is the basis for the "development" of capitalism - the constant destruction and robbery of those who can be robbed. The robbed ends - capitalism immediately begins to die ...
    3. Ros 56
      Ros 56 14 December 2020 12: 34
      -1
      You take a sledgehammer and so that in a week there are 3000 modules, otherwise you are just a balabol.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 14 December 2020 14: 54
        +1
        Gee-gee-gee! Is it possible without a sledgehammer? And then in Europe, which is our enemy in this module, the sledgehammer is an unpopular tool. Did you know?) Kid, now microprocessor modules based on free logic are being massively produced. Well, that is, these are devices that simulate relay arrays. One module simulates five relays. Another ten. Third two hundred! In this case, the interaction of virtual relays is set in software, and the results are output to the terminal block.
        So, with the help of such a module, you can simulate the control of an aircraft, as it was in the good old days) That is, it is not a problem to get as many thousands of control modules as there are in Europe in transit warehouses. Or you can add specialized devices, all the equipment for this is DESIGNED AND PRODUCED in Europe and the USA. Asians and Chinese are still only working hands.
        Lord, children are such children ...
        1. Ros 56
          Ros 56 15 December 2020 08: 26
          0
          Well, why don't you understand such adult jokes, am I surprised at you? fellow
          But seriously, if you are such a great and terrible specialist in this area, you are probably good at pounding on the keyboard, but it's time to get down to business. negative
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 15 December 2020 11: 42
            0
            I am studying, you will not believe) And you, it seems, consider yourself entitled to indicate what and how I should do? Hehe ...
            1. Ros 56
              Ros 56 15 December 2020 12: 26
              0
              In fact, it was you who started teaching us what and how, and even acted as such an oracle for adults. No need to blame a sore head on a healthy one.
              1. Mikhail3
                Mikhail3 15 December 2020 12: 35
                0
                Whom where to blame?)) I do not think that you can be taught anything. The material is not suitable. This is the internet. Here people exchange opinions. This particular site has strict moderation, so no typical techniques used on most of the rest. It is heartwarming to see how you ask strange things of me. Relax young man. It is so accepted here - those people in the topic are trying to explain the situation to the rest. If this format does not suit you, then what are you doing here?
                1. Ros 56
                  Ros 56 15 December 2020 12: 42
                  0
                  Hey kid, teach your grandmother to cook cabbage soup and learn to express your thoughts competently.
                  1. Mikhail3
                    Mikhail3 15 December 2020 12: 44
                    0
                    Very emotional. As I said, you can hardly be taught anything. What were you expecting, moving from discussion to childish nudges? How is it there you
                    otherwise, you're just balabol.
                    ? Drink some water and think about your behavior.
    4. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 14 December 2020 14: 31
      +1
      Exactly. And our intelligence, detection systems and so on will sleep. Well, you think that the enemy accumulates trash at the airfields. It's a common thing. That their air defense is being pulled together with the regular army in certain directions is garbage. Is that how you imagine war? That the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff, seeing all this, are waiting when they first get ready, then prepare, then take off, then fly in our direction?) And do nothing?) Signs of preparation in war cannot be hidden. All troops, as soon as they are found, will be brought into full combat readiness. The primary goals will be determined immediately. Targets will be all airfields where this occurs. All decision making centers. All ports through which they are supplied. Even if the air defense fails somewhere and everything is destroyed on the first attempt not to extinguish. And the second will be gone.
      1. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan 14 December 2020 20: 31
        -3
        What sweet speeches. But June 1941 completely refutes your words. Then, too, there were the same cheers-patriots who shouted: let them just try, we will instantly blow them to shreds and transfer the war to the enemy's territory.
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 14 December 2020 23: 53
          +2
          It does not refute, but on the contrary. The mistakes of 41 years have long been studied and no one is going to repeat them. I'm not shouting anything, but just an approximate algorithm of actions I describe to you. In very simple words. The recent exercises of the strategic forces show just such a development of events.
  6. Hoist
    Hoist 14 December 2020 11: 51
    +15
    Most of all, the presence of such an analysis is surprising - whether 30 highly developed and utterly democratic countries will be able to crush the air defense of one large underdeveloped country ... 30 per one, this is so European. And then they still wonder why Russia is so actively arming itself.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 14 December 2020 20: 34
      -3
      Why is everyone so bloated? It is normal that they plan operations, our military is planning exactly the same and why be indignant?
  7. Kart
    Kart 14 December 2020 11: 51
    +1
    The European Air Force will not need to attack around the entire perimeter. Instead, it would be sufficient to suppress the defense to breach a hole in the defense through relatively weakly defended points.

    This is correct only in one case - if Russia does NOTHING, but only "honestly" shoot down enemy missiles.
    But Russia will naturally not do that, and will again fight "dishonestly" - that is, destroy the enemy's structure by all available means.
    So "breaking the gap" will no longer be needed by anyone.
  8. cniza
    cniza 14 December 2020 11: 52
    +3
    In other words, analysts make it clear that without the efforts of the United States, a breakthrough of the Russian air defense system by the Europeans is impossible.


    So sit straight without twitching ...
    1. dzvero
      dzvero 14 December 2020 12: 29
      0
      So sit straight without twitching ...

      I don't know if it will work. We need the second part of the article - about the capabilities of the Russian Aerospace Forces to overcome the "NATO without the USA" air defense system. If it didn't work out that Russia starts first ... and wins ... there is no reason to twitch while sitting ...
      1. cniza
        cniza 14 December 2020 12: 39
        +4
        Why should Russia start first?
        1. dzvero
          dzvero 14 December 2020 12: 54
          0
          I personally don't see any reason why Russia would start first. Except for the case when a fight can no longer be avoided ... but this is already from another opera, and not examining the spherical horse in a vacuum, as in the article.
  9. Mykhalych
    Mykhalych 14 December 2020 11: 52
    -4
    Let them figure out how to stop Zircon. "Any Russian surface ship armed with Zircon hypersonic anti-ship missiles is a nightmare for the US Navy."Calm, it was not me who said, but Michael Peck, an expert of the American analytical magazine National Interest.
    Well, the air defense of the Russian Federation will deal with the fact that or who flies up to us.
  10. FIR FIR
    FIR FIR 14 December 2020 11: 54
    +1
    How to overcome Russian air defense

    1.Send overseas.
    2. Remove sanctions unilaterally.
    3. To start mutually beneficial political and economic cooperation.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 14 December 2020 12: 30
      +1
      Question on the first point: send to overcome air defense or send on an erotic date?
      1. FIR FIR
        FIR FIR 14 December 2020 12: 33
        +2
        Second of course lol
  11. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 14 December 2020 12: 04
    0
    The IISS is seriously discussing how the Russian air defense system will be hacked from the European side. At the same time, it is with regret that they come to the conclusion that they cannot cope without "American support". So who will be at war with Russia and hack the air defense? Is Europe a NATO member or the United States a NATO chief? And why do you think that everything can do (and win) "a limited conflict involving conventional armed forces"?
  12. Al Asad
    Al Asad 14 December 2020 12: 05
    +2
    Once again, "civilized", "enlightened", "democratic" Europe wants to "liberate" Russia and again full of grief?
  13. Thrifty
    Thrifty 14 December 2020 12: 16
    0
    Draw a cartoon in 3D as you destroy our air defense, and watch it 25 hours a day, or even all 26 hours. ...
  14. Ros 56
    Ros 56 14 December 2020 12: 28
    +1
    Only by crawling, but there is also very, very, very dangerous. But if you have two lives, try it. It's a shame not to write your memoirs. lol
  15. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 14 December 2020 12: 35
    0
    believing that the forces deployed in Europe are clearly not enough to overcome the Russian air defense
    Why should Europe overcome Russian air defense? Air defense is a purely defensive weapon, is Europe going to invade Russia?
    1. Avior
      Avior 14 December 2020 12: 44
      +1
      they are purely theoretical about the case
      It is likely, although still unlikely, that there would be a geographically limited conflict involving conventional forces.

      taking into account the fact that ground air defense has limited capabilities for concentration of forces, in contrast to aviation and
      1. _Ugene_
        _Ugene_ 14 December 2020 12: 52
        0
        taking into account the fact that ground air defense has limited capabilities for concentration of forces, in contrast to aviation and
        yes, but layered air defense includes, among other things, air defense aviation
        1. Avior
          Avior 14 December 2020 13: 05
          +1
          There is not enough money for everything at once.
          Spend on ground air defense - weaken the aviation.
          they are just discussing the advantages of aviation - the possibility of breaking through the air defense line in a small area, while most of the ground air defense will be idle.
  16. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 14 December 2020 13: 04
    +2
    "aircraft specialized in the suppression and destruction of air defense. These include 35 Tornado ECRs operated by the German and Italian air forces, as well as 24 F-16CJs," ////
    ----
    belay
    Europeans are 20-30 years behind in military aviation.
    The Tornado method - passing at extremely low altitude - is obsolete.
    As well as the Tornadoes themselves.
    Now air defense is not suppressed and destroyed, but deceived.
    Electronic warfare + drones + stealth give the result without the pilots' suicidal attacks "over the crowns of trees" on air defense systems.
    1. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ 14 December 2020 13: 23
      +1
      Europeans are 20-30 years behind in military aviation.
      this is not news for a long time, they are accustomed to the fact that their big brother protects them, and at the same time rules everything he wants
    2. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 14 December 2020 22: 46
      -2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Europeans are 20-30 years behind in military aviation.

      You are exaggerating. Typhoon is in no way inferior to the modern 5th generation. Except stealth. Radar, weapons, avionics, engines with supersonic cruising are all on the level. After the implementation of the British-Turkish TF-X and in the stealth component, they will catch up and will be a full-fledged analogue of the F-22 / Su-57. Moreover, they could do it all themselves and did it much earlier, the question is of necessity.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 14 December 2020 23: 12
        +1
        I put it a little wrong, your truth.
        The Europeans are far behind SYSTEMALLY: in tactics, in communication systems.
        In the integration of aviation and other types of troops.
        The typhoon is indeed a good plane. But applying it
        in the old fashioned way, for example, attacking the Russian air defense, Typhoons will be defeated.
        While Americans can (potentially) succeed.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 14 December 2020 23: 26
          -1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The Europeans are far behind SYSTEMALLY: in tactics, in communication systems.

          This is not the case for the belligerent units, in general they are in no hurry to modernize the troops, yes.
          They are very diligent in their approach to modernization, keeping the minimum necessary level. On the one hand, they retain their technological potential, on the other hand, they implement it where needed. Russia does not pose a military threat, the rest of the enemies are either destroyed or too far away. Why waste money then?
          The Azerbaijani case with the An-2 was of interest, the Cessna 172 and hundreds of thousands of analogues have been built, a network of airfields throughout Europe. Converting into a UAV is not difficult, an easy way to overload air defenses.
          Interview with a Portuguese paratrooper, level comparable to colleagues from the United States. And for UAVs and situational awareness.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 15 December 2020 00: 11
            +1
            Thanks for the video. I myself did about the same thing 30 years ago,
            even nostalgia appeared ... But I was not very impressed with their level.
            In particular, it was strictly forbidden to hide behind a Humvee and follow it in a crowd.
            This is not a tank. You can get from an RPG - everything is soft-boiled, and a Humvee, and everything behind it - too ... sad
            ----
            If we go back to aviation, the difference is that the Americans spend a lot of difficult
            complex exercises "Air Force against Air Defense". Europeans even have such equipped
            there are no polygons. Collective tactics, not courage of pilots and quality of aircraft
            "rule".
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 15 December 2020 00: 21
              -4
              Quote: voyaka uh
              In particular, it was strictly forbidden to hide behind a Humvee and follow it in a crowd.

              Your enemies are more dangerous, and indeed the Humvee in the combat zone is bad manners in our time.
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Collective tactics, not the courage of the pilots and the quality of the aircraft
              "rule".

              I completely agree with this, that the average level is always and everywhere important, not the maximum. Again, there is no threat for Europe if measures are taken to appear. The military potential of Russia falls annually, at least 5-10 years will be needed for restoration, the same amount of time for “Europe”.
      2. Dread
        Dread 15 December 2020 09: 51
        -1
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        You are exaggerating. Typhoon is in no way inferior to the modern 5th generation. Except stealth. Radar, weapons, avionics, engines with supersonic cruising are all on the level.

        Don't distort the truth. The Typhoon is inferior to the F-22 / Su-57 in terms of radar, air-to-long-range air missiles, etc. The new radar with AFAR for the Typhoon is still in development - other information has not yet appeared.
  17. Genak
    Genak 14 December 2020 13: 06
    -1
    The dream is like that of gopniks, to beat the victim with a crowd, and although he has means of protection, he will spit in response. Nuclear weapons can be seen only exceptional ones can be used;)
    1. Avior
      Avior 14 December 2020 13: 26
      +5
      The dream is like that of gopniks, to beat the victim with a crowd, and although he has the means of protection, he will spit in response.

      this is how aviation and the military in general all over the world operate.
      called the concentration of forces.
  18. zwlad
    zwlad 14 December 2020 13: 34
    +2
    Maybe inappropriately better ah?
    This overcoming will not end with anything good for you.
  19. AshPoseidon
    AshPoseidon 14 December 2020 13: 56
    +1
    Proceeding from the military doctrine, one must understand that any attacking missile will be perceived as carrying a nuclear warhead, with all the ensuing consequences for the adversaries.
  20. Selevc
    Selevc 14 December 2020 14: 09
    -2
    Okay Americans - let's fight !!! Try it !!! Check how many Russian missiles will reach the cities of Europe and the USA and how many not !!! Do not forget to also check which part of New York, London or Paris will die immediately from Kuzka's mother and which one will suffer for a couple of weeks !!!

    A missile defense breakthrough is all great, but in theory - you need to remember that this breakthrough will be carried out from control points that will already be in chaos and ruins after a massive strike by hypersonic missiles !!!

    So far, the most real experience of a missile defense breakthrough is, and it is very sad for the West !!! This is the experience of breaking through the American-Israeli missile defense system when, during the defense of Tel Aviv, the most modern (at the beginning of the 90s) Patriot complexes shot down less than half of the obsolete SCUD missiles !!!
  21. iouris
    iouris 14 December 2020 14: 34
    0
    Try to discuss how to overcome NATO air defenses.
  22. Old26
    Old26 14 December 2020 16: 03
    0
    The most stupid thing when discussing such articles is a priori to laugh at the idea itself, relying on
    1. Nuclear weapons
    2. Another domestic wunderwaffe
    3. The fact that the enemy does not know our military doctrine, but we, her armed, uhh ...
    Experts regard our nuclear war as real (between Russia and the US, Russia and NATO) in about 5 cases of 100. Everything else is perceived by the leadership as possible non-nuclear conflicts. And initially to be 100% confident in the power of air defense is only possible when all our air defense systems have passed combat testing. But in fact, who passed?
    Old versions of Bois and Thor? "Carapace"? Our "unmatched" complexes of the S-300, S-350, S-400 type NEVER PARTICIPATED in hostilities. And it is not known how they will behave. And how at one time they behaved in the exercises, the result of which was the death of Lemansky - we know.
    And we continue to say with a laugh, "and you try". But knowing that many complexes have not been tested in battle, they can try. First, somewhere on the periphery, making conclusions from such conflicts and correcting mistakes. And we will continue to talk about the insurmountability of our air defense ...

    Quote: OrangeBigg
    Do you forget that as soon as such an attack is detected on the radars, there will immediately be a retaliatory strike from everything that is on known targets, or are you not aware of the military doctrine of the Russian Federation?

    It would be so, the world would have long been in nuclear ruins. How many false alarms there were in the early warning systems. And you hope that "I saw on the radar - I press the button"
    1. max702
      max702 14 December 2020 20: 39
      +3
      You yourself would not write nonsense .. long ago, orders and protocols were written for any possible situation, and only for you something seems like a revelation .. all these trainings are for internal use and no more .. the military are all well aware of the meaning of these horror stories no ... they deem it necessary and tactical nuclear weapons use, and the threshold for its use has clearly decreased compared to the 90-00s, the partners just want to make sure whether we are ready for this, as soon as this escalation of the situation occurs, it will abruptly come to naught because everything will become clear .. So everything perhaps..
    2. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 14 December 2020 22: 57
      -7
      Quote: Old26
      But in fact, who passed?
      Old versions of Bois and Thor? "Carapace"? Our "unmatched" complexes of the S-300, S-350, S-400 type NEVER PARTICIPATED in hostilities.

      The latest modifications of the TOP and C300 fought in Karabakh, the result is a deplorable minimum of 4 Torahs and many C300 components were destroyed. In general, half of the air defense of Karabakh was destroyed in 15 minutes.

      Shells in Libya, the result is deplorable, at least 8 pieces were lost, and at the end of the conflict, shells on the MAN chassis stopped appearing, unlike the Kamaz ones. That speaks about their complete destruction and urgent transfer from the presence of the Russian air defense.

      Armenia lost four of the six Russian-made Tor-M2KM anti-aircraft missile systems (the most modern models) deployed in Karabakh in the first 15 days of the war, and half of the entire NKR air defense was destroyed in 15 minutes on September 27.

      This was stated by the former secretary of the Security Council of the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic Samvel Babayan.
      According to him, after the destruction of the "Thors", four more complexes were sent to the combat zone.

      Of the six Buk air defense systems, only one was in working order. In the first minutes of the war, units of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces destroyed 10 Osa air defense systems and one S-300 air defense system.

      Quote:
      "There was no weapon. The air defense was at zero. There were 6 TORs, of which 4 were destroyed in the first 15 days. Then they sent 4 more, which can provide a maximum of 45 km. Of the 6 BUK-5 units were inoperative, a repair team was waiting from Moscow to to be used by the 10th. "
  23. Raven 95
    Raven 95 14 December 2020 22: 44
    +7
    They are there again to fight with us chtol gathered.
    They are trying to apply the experience of the war with Iraq to Russia.
    Russia is not Iraq, it is in principle impossible to defeat Russia in the war at this stage. Maximum - there will be a draw.
    It's just that Russia, unlike Iraq, has the Last Argument, which will judge and equalize everyone ...
  24. arnulla
    arnulla 15 December 2020 08: 13
    0
    Note, we are not talking about breaking through their air defense system, but the west is going to break through ours. Moreover, they do not even hide their thoughts, they do not disguise themselves as "protection of democracy" and other slag ... This is to the question of some kind of "Russian threat"
  25. Valentin Tveryakov
    Valentin Tveryakov 15 December 2020 09: 58
    -1
    no nuclear power can withstand a concentrated strike, so nuclear counteraction must be immediate in order to burn out the enemy's electronics and inflict damage that cannot be quickly established. And how can you reason if NATO troops are planning to kill you. There should be no reasoning, because NATO side cannot reason. These are troops above the rich.
  26. Basarev
    Basarev 15 December 2020 13: 50
    -1
    I wonder if it is possible to build a great ship armed with full layered air defense - from point to distant - in the right proportion? Such a ship will become the antipode of an aircraft carrier.
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 19 December 2020 12: 14
      0
      everything is possible, only the price and tonnage will be enormous, and some kind of subtlety in 1/5 of the size of such a vmmp will be able to drown it. It is not advisable to have all eggs in 1 basket. There will be air defense, but what about the PLO?
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 19 December 2020 14: 04
        -1
        Build a similar anti-submarine ship, with all ASW echelons, possibly even helicopters.
  27. silver_roman
    silver_roman 19 December 2020 12: 12
    0
    Eternally aggressive evil Russia, bristling with PROTECTIVE air defense systems throughout its territory and peace-loving warriors of same-sex love, who all plan to bring us democracy and freedom once again ... well, and take with them a couple of tens of millions of evil and terrible Russians.
    The main thing is to immediately work out on enemy airfields so that all their advantage in the air force was reduced to 0. It would also be good to send caravans of transport to the Titanic in the Atlantic.
  28. VasYok
    VasYok 19 December 2020 16: 34
    0
    without efforts on the part of the United States, a breakthrough of the Russian air defense system by the Europeans is impossible.

    What is the problem? There is already a solution.