Foreign press: the third fall of the MiG-29 in India in a year will open the doors wider for French Rafale fighters and American F-18

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Foreign press: the third fall of the MiG-29 in India in a year will open the doors wider for French Rafale fighters and American F-18

The Indian press continues to discuss the fall of the MiG-29K carrier-based fighter into the Arabian Sea. Recall that this aircraft was part of the wing of the aircraft carrier "Vikramaditya" of the Indian Navy. While the official data on the causes of this incident in India has not been announced, however, more and more statements are heard that the reason is "the technical condition of an outdated fighter".

Such statements are actively picked up by other media. In particular, the Eurasian Times published an article by Mansija Astkhani, where it was stated that "the third fall of the MiG-29 in India since the beginning of the year will now open the doors wider for French Rafale fighters and US-made aircraft."



It is indicated that New Delhi "should now consider buying American F-18 carrier-based aircraft."

From the material:

This is the third such disaster of the Indian MiG-29K in a year, and questions arise about the health of the aircraft. According to experts, only a third of the 45 aircraft remain operational due to technical problems.

It does not discuss the question of why these "technical problems" arise. Earlier, the Indian side has consistently stated that "the qualifications of Indian aircraft technicians are high to maintain fighters in high operational readiness."

From the article:

India needs to consider an important factor when choosing aircraft deck aviation... For example, experts believe the F-18 Super Hornet provides the pilot with better situational awareness, which is a key factor in combat.

76 comments
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  1. +9
    29 November 2020 09: 01
    A modern fighter is a complex where the pilot plays one of the most important roles. The fact that MIGs are falling should be dealt with, and not flirted with democrats ...
    1. +6
      29 November 2020 09: 45
      The MiG-29 was originally a front-line fighter, which was cut into a deck fighter for export.
      Anti-corrosion treatment, reinforced landing gear and wing folding. The problem with the resource of engines, they do not withstand operation in an aircraft carrier.
      “Landing on the deck of an aircraft carrier looks like a hard landing,” Zvezda cites the opinion of the pilots. - The plane needs frequent repairs. Because of these landings, structural defects constantly appear. "
      1. -6
        29 November 2020 10: 04
        don't la-la. The plane's gasket is to blame. I know for sure. in all complex techniques, the gasket always fails. Gasket between steering wheel and seat.
        1. +1
          29 November 2020 10: 53
          It is quite possible to organize accidents of the MiG-29, declare them obsolete and purchase new aircraft. You can raise money on the purchase of new aircraft.
        2. +5
          29 November 2020 14: 26
          Quote: mark2
          don't la-la. The gasket is to blame.

          You are right one hundred percent, these aborigines do not have a glass thing for long, not a year so that something does not drown in India, it is enough to remember the fire on the submarine. Now about the minusers, all aircraft accidents occur through the fault of a person, a pilot, or a technician. And we and the Russian Federation have the same situation, why do you think SU 34 decomposed into the Far East a couple of years ago? Who's to say? Why do Roskosmos rockets periodically fall and do not take off?
          1. 0
            29 November 2020 20: 22
            So they will also cut themselves.
      2. +14
        29 November 2020 10: 48
        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        The MiG-29 was originally a front-line fighter, which was cut into a deck fighter for export.

        Nope. It was sawed back in the USSR for the Kuznetsov air wing, there was a competition, in fact, between the Su, MiG and Yakovlev design bureaus. Yakovlev with his Yak-141 fell off due to an accident, the MiG-29 did not have time to bring to mind, because the deck version was made on the basis of the modernized MiG-29M and won the Su, since their Su-33 was made on the basis of a combat aircraft, with a minimum of upgrades. If it had not been for the collapse of the Union, it could well have won the MiG-29K - its avionics were more advanced.
        And then the Indians came with their money, and the MiG-29K was finished
        1. +1
          1 December 2020 11: 47
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          It was sawed back in the USSR for the Kuznetsov air wing, there was a competition

          Dear Andrey, I didn't know this nuance, thanks for the information.
          1. +1
            1 December 2020 12: 16
            You are always welcome, dear Bashkirkhan! hi
            1. +1
              1 December 2020 12: 18
              Hindus complain about our deck boat, write Lomayuzzo engines often. I do not know what the reason is, but I would not indiscriminately call the Indians incompetent users.
              1. 0
                1 December 2020 14: 00
                I suppose the problem is that MiG produces almost nothing and does not have the ability to properly "align" the units in operation. It's just that our MiG-29KR seem to fly normally (but from overland airfields), but they don't seem to be very good from the deck. Hence the conclusion - whether the question is in poor service from the Indians, or in some kind of structural trick, which manifests itself only when flying from the deck.
                This is so, offhand, I did not go deep into the question
      3. +3
        29 November 2020 11: 02
        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        The MiG-29 was originally a front-line fighter, which was cut into a deck fighter for export.
        Anti-corrosion treatment, reinforced landing gear and wing folding

        Northrop prototype YF-17A aircraft made their first flights on June 9 and August 21, 1974, but after a comparative assessment, the General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon project was selected for production. Subsequent US Navy trials of the YF-17A Cobra led to their further development by McDonnell Douglas and Northrop to meet the US Navy's need for a strike fighter. The resulting aircraft is now in production under the designation McDonnell Douglas F / A-18 Hornet.
        1. +5
          29 November 2020 12: 39
          For "Vikramaditya" and other similar carriers, F-18 and "Rafal" may not be suitable for one banal reason - they are not capable of taking off from a springboard. And there is no catapult on the Vikramaditya. Upgrading the ship and installing catapults on it ... nonsense. Both in terms of money and in terms of implementation. And if we manage to teach these pepelatsy to take off "in Russian", then it is not a fact that their combat load will be in acceptable parameters ... But this is exactly what our deck aircraft with a springboard start blame for.
          So the choice is not easy for Indians.
          Moreover, for the new aircraft carrier, it is possible to order an already deck version of the MiG-35 with more powerful and resourceful engines and much more advanced avionics.
          What will win the Indian selection? The American lobby, Indian corruption (remember "Rafali"), or a rational choice in favor of the tried and tested, familiar, but updated, with a reasonable price and the ability to localize production?
          ... But India will be as always ... unpredictable ...
          1. +6
            29 November 2020 13: 49
            For "Vikramaditya" and other similar carriers, F-18 and "Rafal" may not be suitable for one banal reason - they are not capable of taking off from a springboard.
            Artistic whistle.
            The thrust-to-weight ratio at maximum load for the MiG-29 is 0,92 kgf / kg, for the F / A-18C / D - 0,96 kgf / kg.
            With the nominal MiG-29 - 1,09 kgf / kg, the F / A-18C / D - 1,13 kgf / kg.
            So what's stopping the F / A-18 from taking off from the springboard?
            By the way, the Dassault Rafale has a thrust-to-weight ratio of 1,03.
            1. +1
              30 November 2020 11: 25
              Quote: Undecim
              The thrust-to-weight ratio at maximum load for the MiG-29 is 0,92 kgf / kg, for the F / A-18C / D - 0,96 kgf / kg.
              With the nominal MiG-29 - 1,09 kgf / kg, the F / A-18C / D - 1,13 kgf / kg.
              So what's stopping the F / A-18 from taking off from the springboard?
              By the way, the Dassault Rafale has a thrust-to-weight ratio of 1,03.

              When new engines from the MiG-29 are installed on the MiG35K, the F-18 loses its advantages.
              We're talking about modern aircraft, not 10 years ago.
              Well, the price.
              And the uniformity of the fleet.
              And the possibility of localizing production in India.
              And avionics from the MiG-35.
              In addition, the MiG-29K has been flying from the springboard for a long time (from birth), and the F-18 has not yet been tried.

              ... But the thrust bearings on the F-18 motors are ... good.
              Although the resource of the MiG-35 engines has grown very seriously.

              But the choice will still be for the tsigans and their kshatriyas.
              1. +4
                30 November 2020 11: 50
                We say
                The question was about the possibility of taking off from the springboard. The main factor in this matter is the thrust-to-weight ratio.
                Any objections that the F / A -18 has enough for this?
                1. +1
                  30 November 2020 12: 36
                  There are no such objections - it can potentially. And here's how in practice ... What will be the payload ... And how will such a practice (take off from a springboard) affect performance ...
                  So the question is complex, and it is up to the Indians to solve it.
          2. +3
            29 November 2020 15: 58
            Quote: bayard
            ... But India will be as always ... unpredictable ...

            Why is it unpredictable, very much even. First dancing, tambourine, and then business. However, in hindsight it turns out that planes do not fly, tanks do not travel, machine guns do not fire. Maybe really, it's all about the hands and the head, and not at all in technology.?
            1. +1
              30 November 2020 11: 28
              They now have a good incentive beyond the pass. lol
              So I think they will also submit an application for the Su-57 ... The Chinese dragon greatly disturbed the elephant.
      4. +2
        30 November 2020 12: 18
        The MiG-29 and MiG-29K have only a name in common. And your comment only says that in the topic of aviation you are only a person interested in the topic, but not in the topic from the inside. For carrier-based aviation, back in the days of the Union, they developed and created an actually new aircraft, in K, to put it simply - except for instruments, there is nothing in common with a land-based counterpart. And by the way, the MiG was more suitable for the deck than Drying, but the undercover struggle and the time of the Sukhoi design bureau's popularity by the beginning of the 90s did their job. Before such thoughtful comments, you would first talk to the people on the deck. But each opinion has its own ...
  2. +18
    29 November 2020 09: 05
    the reason is the "technical condition of an outdated fighter"
    And the technical condition of still working aircraft depends entirely on the maintenance and qualifications of technical personnel. So maybe this is the reason? To be honest, India's rushing about in the purchase of weapons, incl. and the planes are already set on edge. The fact that high-level corruption in India is not a secret for anyone. Therefore, flight accidents play into the hands of those who lobby, receiving kickbacks for contracts, the acquisition of aircraft in France and the United States.
    1. +9
      29 November 2020 09: 19
      I completely agree with you (in terms of maintenance and qualifications of technical personnel).
      As they said (in the USSR) in our aviation: study the materiel.
      And if an Indian, instead of the normal one (required by the Regulations for a given aircraft), then does a "circle of honor" (as we called a very fast operational maintenance of a civil aircraft in a transit port) - that's the result.
      To a bad Indian dancer ...
    2. 0
      29 November 2020 09: 27
      Quote: rotmistr60
      Therefore, flight accidents play into the hands of those who lobby, receiving kickbacks for contracts, the acquisition of aircraft in France and the United States.

      Or maybe someone’s pens were kicking to ensure that flight accidents took place, in addition to poor maintenance. Not a very competent "specialist" and will not notice that someone there additionally "dig deeper" And when there is a lot of money at stake, then human life is simply ignored.
      1. +3
        29 November 2020 10: 28
        if the Indians strive to get out on the move every time an emergency light goes off, then this will not prevent them from getting out of the "Raphael" .imho.
  3. +9
    29 November 2020 09: 06
    As far as I understand, it is not only MIGs that fall among Indians. They are generally out of tune with technology. Possibly poor training of flyers and maintenance personnel. I suppose it will become clearer as more Rafals and Hornets fall. what
    1. +3
      29 November 2020 09: 32
      But the money will already be spent and divided ...
    2. +1
      29 November 2020 10: 00
      Quote: bessmertniy
      when new Raphals and Hornets begin to fall, this will become clearer.

      Moreover, the Hornets and Rafali take off from the catapult, and the MiGs from the springboard.
      1. +8
        29 November 2020 10: 48
        Rafali and Hornets can also ski jump. The only question is the weight tolerance. From a catapult, he can with full tanks and garlands of missile-bombs. But from the tramline, like the MiG - half-standing with a pair of missiles.

        Plus, in the future, the Indians will have a catapult avik, at least they are already using lards of money for it.
        1. +4
          29 November 2020 13: 41
          Quote: donavi49
          Rafali and Hornets can also

          Maybe they may not, but now they take off only from a catapult, and the MiG-29K takes off and sits down with a tank and heavy missiles.
  4. +13
    29 November 2020 09: 07
    The beauty. During the year, 3 MiG-29s were dropped. If they buy an F-18, they will drop 10 units a year. Simply because the arms themselves, and the maintenance of the F-18 is many times more difficult than the MiG-29. And while they learn to somehow fly in a completely new type of aircraft, how many disasters will there be ...
    Flag in their hands, suicides with garlands.
    1. +7
      29 November 2020 11: 11
      Quote: stock buildbat
      Just because the hands themselves ... The flag is in their hands, suicides with garlands.

      It seems to me that the problem is in their hands-on hands and lobbying, plus, historically, Indians have a high accident rate. Western technology is more demanding: they will cope with Poseidons, since civilians have been using them for a long time, but let's see how they cope with Apaches. As they danced, they will continue ...
  5. +5
    29 November 2020 09: 07
    "The reason is 'the technical condition of an obsolete fighter'."
    Or maybe it is necessary to serve more competently?
    1. +3
      29 November 2020 15: 03
      And who will serve? Zita and Geeta?
  6. +4
    29 November 2020 09: 16
    Earlier, the Indian side constantly stated that "the qualifications of Indian aircraft technicians are high to maintain fighters in high operational readiness."
    "Something vague doubts torment me!"
  7. +1
    29 November 2020 09: 30
    And I thought:
    To get the Hornets in, you need to arrange several accidents on MIGs.
    India's multi-vector armaments policy does not exclude sabotage activities.
    Lies, provocation and sabotage are the favorite brainchild of the Stars and Stripes.
    And if MIGs fall, then someone needs it ...
  8. +1
    29 November 2020 09: 31
    Well, and on simulators, pilots to drive and, just in case, black boxes to analyze the Indians, apparently, dances interfere?
  9. +3
    29 November 2020 09: 34
    India and domestic planes: this music will last forever!
  10. +6
    29 November 2020 09: 35
    I remember reading the "Red Star" in the Soviet Union. There was an "Incidents" column. There wasn’t such a month that it hadn’t been reported that a plane had crashed in India.
    The tradition, however ...
    1. 0
      30 November 2020 08: 55
      In the Soviet Union, too, not a week passed (on average) without a military plane crash, but they simply did not write about it. Now you can easily find the total accident rate by models in the available sources and divide it by the number of months of operation. The result will be impressive.
      And if you are too lazy to look for yourself, then I took care of you - keep the links
      http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/xussr/avaria/avaria_54_91.html
      https://topwar.ru/78593-deynekin-vo-vremena-sssr-vvs-teryali-kazhdyy-god-po-aviadivizii.html
      I hope that you will not record the former Air Force Commander Deinekin as a star?
  11. +7
    29 November 2020 09: 40
    I have a stupid profane question. A plane from a catapult aircraft carrier will be able to operate on a springboard?
    1. -3
      29 November 2020 09: 52
      Yes maybe.
      https://topwar.ru/167872-konkurencija-mig-29k-dlja-avianoscev-indii-korporacija-boeing-testiruet-f-a-18-super-hornet-na-vzlet-s-tramplina.html
      1. +5
        29 November 2020 10: 22
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        Yes maybe.

        Tests are tests, and real exploitation is real exploitation. Again, the issues of compatibility of communication systems, radars, landing support, dimensions of elevators and hangars of the former Gorshkov with American technology raise questions. And these are only the first ones that came to the profane head. And how many of them will the specialist give? Everything can be solved, of course, but will it cost the game in the case of a very elderly ship - both in terms of money and in terms of time? Here are Indian aircraft carriers under construction, of course, American (most likely) or French technology will receive
        1. -1
          29 November 2020 10: 25
          The Americans are ready to work in the negative, just to enter the Indian market.
          1. +1
            29 November 2020 11: 50
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            The Americans are ready to work in the negative, just to enter the Indian market.

            Since when did the empirialists start working in the red? Just the purchase of aircraft by India from the United States will be compensation for moral damage caused by India, when it purchases the S-400 air defense system ...
            1. +3
              29 November 2020 11: 54
              They work for a long time. This is a common practice, at the entrance to work in the negative, on the next sales to beat off everything.
    2. +3
      29 November 2020 09: 55
      Depends on engine power and load. The fighter can take off from the springboard, but the DLRO plane is no longer there.
    3. +1
      29 November 2020 10: 34
      I have a stupid profane question. A plane from a catapult aircraft carrier will be able to operate on a springboard?


      Like the Chinese, India plans to equip the following aircraft carriers with a catapult. The technology transfer negotiations for emals took place several years ago.
  12. +6
    29 November 2020 09: 42
    Let them change to Rafali
    Then together we will discuss their fall
  13. +4
    29 November 2020 09: 43
    Considering that you are a very specific system of lobbying for military purchases in India, now an elephant is inflated from any sneeze. In fact, there are no results of the investigation yet, but the media have already passed a verdict. I even guess who pays for such materials on the pages of Indian publications.
  14. +1
    29 November 2020 09: 45
    Well ... they are falling, and the MiGs are to blame. Nonsense.
  15. +5
    29 November 2020 09: 46
    In this case, this is not the case.
    The MiG-29K always sits on the deck very hard.
    This is how it is constructed. Such landings lead to fast
    fuselage and landing gear failure.
    1. +6
      29 November 2020 10: 17
      This is how it is constructed. Tell us in more detail.
      1. +5
        29 November 2020 11: 00
        This plane was converted into a deck deck.
        Not Indian people told about a particularly hard landing on it,
        and Russian pilots.
        1. +6
          29 November 2020 11: 32
          Again. What is the peculiarity of design? The Su-33 is also converted from the Su-27, but it is very different from the Su-27. This is a completely different plane. So is the MiG-29K.
          What is the peculiarity of the design of the MiG-29K in which a hard landing occurs?
    2. +6
      29 November 2020 10: 29
      Seriously, maybe the wrong dance was sang before the flight, that's the reason for you? stop fellow lol
    3. +2
      29 November 2020 20: 31
      From my own experience? Or OBS?
  16. +8
    29 November 2020 09: 51
    What difference does it make for the Indians to fall on? They won't drink up their talents.
  17. +2
    29 November 2020 10: 03
    Dirty and. The technique must be monitored and looked after. And now they will say that our fighters are bullshit. Equipment in the hands of an Indian - scrap metal!
  18. +3
    29 November 2020 10: 03
    It's funny! It's just the same for the Indians, the expensive Rafali and Hornets will fall!)))
  19. -3
    29 November 2020 10: 15
    Indians breed you like blind kittens .. These accidents are probably provoked!
    But in the event of a serious conflict, these "rafs and efkki" may not take off at all ..
  20. +2
    29 November 2020 10: 26
    Haha, you might think those pieces of iron don't fall. The question is, what is the reason for the fall? When they install it, then we can talk about something, but for now, la-la, three rubles.
  21. +4
    29 November 2020 10: 31
    Something other operators do not have Russian fighters falling down so often. Maybe it's not the country of origin?
  22. -1
    29 November 2020 10: 44
    The military-industrial complex is a military propaganda complex!
  23. +3
    29 November 2020 10: 48
    And the F-16/18/35 that don't fall? They fall as they fall. In the United States itself, what is not a month is a disaster.

    And all such articles are aimed at pushing the supply of India and all the rest of Western technology and are not objective at all.

    It is possible to buy F-16/18/35, only for the same money it will turn out less in pieces, and their reliability will not be much better.

    If India were armed with American planes, it would fall just as often.

    In Russia, they fly on both Sushki and MiGs and do not fall as often as in India. It still says something. Here, either with the qualifications of pilots or technicians in India, not all is well.
  24. +4
    29 November 2020 10: 48
    For example, experts are confident that the F-18 Super Hornet provides better situational awareness for the pilot.
    Well, this is, like bum, understandable and not even discussed, electronics in hornets of another generation. Only it was originally about reliability, how is it here?
  25. +3
    29 November 2020 10: 51
    It's time for these guys to understand, hands should also grow from the right place ...
  26. wow
    +3
    29 November 2020 11: 06
    "... the qualifications of the Indians ... high"!? If I hadn't been in India for half a year assembling the MiG-27s, I would have believed it. That the pilots and the technique are very weak.
    1. +2
      29 November 2020 20: 35
      That's for sure. We retrained on the KA-25. Dreamed about.
  27. +2
    29 November 2020 11: 07
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    ... It was sawed back in the USSR for the Kuznetsov air wing, there was a competition, in fact, between the Su, MiG and Yakovlev design bureaus. Yakovlev with his Yak-141 fell off due to an accident, the MiG-29s did not have time to bring to mind, because the deck version began to be made on the basis of the modernized MiG-29M and won the Su, since their Su-33

    Inaccurate storytelling - the Su-33 won only thanks to the energy of Simonov.
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. 0
    29 November 2020 12: 37
    Without analogues in the world ...
  30. +17
    29 November 2020 13: 42
    Foreign press

    Everything is as usual: they see a straw in someone else's eye, they don't notice a log in their own
  31. +3
    29 November 2020 13: 46
    Or maybe the curvature of the hands of the Indians is the reason for the falls?))
  32. +1
    29 November 2020 20: 20
    Then Mirages will fall from hr ... maintenance. What will they then look for.
  33. 0
    30 November 2020 08: 42
    the reason is the "technical condition of an outdated fighter"

    Even if the MiG-29K is morally obsolete (again, in comparison with what?), The accident rate increases with the age of a particular aircraft, and not the model. And the Indians bought them relatively recently. When would they get old?
    And the French and the Americans are also at great risk if they decide to sell their planes to the Indians - don't go to a fortune-teller, Rafali and Hornets will often fall in their hands, and the dancing people will habitually blame the manufacturers, not their crooked handles, for this. Well, okay - it's not for us alone to suffer from Indian anti-advertising.
  34. +1
    30 November 2020 08: 53
    This is how the plane fell for $ 50 million ... and so it will fall for $ 150 million
  35. 0
    2 December 2020 22: 44
    Delivered to India a poor-quality aircraft, not brought to mind. I wanted money quickly. We got it and that's it ... We could count on more in the future, on expansion ... Now, as they say, keep your pocket wider. Billions will float past us, and our reputation has also been damaged. And this is for a long time.