Military Review

Lessons from Karabakh. Russia is not ready for war

613

The war is inexorably approaching Russia. Unfortunately, we can confidently say that the country and the people are not ready for war. The Kremlin hides and runs from any conflict, as it feels its weakness in the absence of unity of power, the leading party and the people.


Lessons from Armenia


Stepanakert and Yerevan clearly overestimated their strengths, which was the reason for the defeat in the new Karabakh war. Under the previous scenario, Azerbaijan against Armenia, even with a certain superiority of Baku in technology and weapons, The Karabakh problem could not be solved by force of arms. The Karabakh clan in Armenia, the war veterans were confident that they would “be able to repeat” the previous victory. Yerevan is accustomed to living in conditions of "stability": no peace, no war. Didn't notice that the world has changed. They did not expect that Turkey would so brazenly and openly break into the zone of Russian interests. And Transcaucasia (even after the collapse of the USSR, taking into account the three centuries of Russian struggle for peace in the region) was our sphere of influence.

However, the world has changed a lot and continues to change rapidly. Erdogan is building a new Ottoman empire, where the Caucasus is the sphere of interests of Turkey, as well as the countries of the Middle East, North Africa, and the Balkans. Now the republics of Turkestan. On the way, Crimea (fortunately, Ankara did not recognize Crimea as Russian), the Russian North Caucasus and the Volga region. The Kremlin, despite its patriotic propaganda and "victories" on TV, is retreating. Even the Russian Donbass, not to mention the ancient Russian capital Kiev, is not recognized as part of the Russian world (civilization).

Istanbul supported Baku, in fact, made it a vassal. Its air force, which covered the airspace of Azerbaijan, advanced methods of warfare (drones), worked out in Syria and Libya, advisers and staff officers, special forces, pro-Turkish militants transferred from the Middle East. Turkey came to the Caucasus again. And it is quickly being mastered - a gas corridor to the Caspian Sea and further to Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan. Transport corridor Baku - Tbilisi - Kars. The new Turkish empire is becoming a gas hub and logistics power, connecting ports to railways, increasing the capacity of the transport infrastructure of Georgia, Azerbaijan and Turkey. Aiming at the Caspian.

In Yerevan, they missed all this and received a heavy defeat, hurting national pride and creating a great threat to the Armenian people in the Caucasus. The catastrophe of a century ago was repeated, when the Turks defeated Armenia (How Turkey attacked Armenia; H. 2). At the same time, not only the Armenian military-political leadership, Pashinyan, but the entire people are to blame. In words, the Armenians all over the world and in Russia (in Armenia itself - 3 million people, in Russia - 1,5 million people, around the world - over 12 million people) demanded a blitzkrieg, victory over Azerbaijan and Turkey. But in reality, everything was limited to jingoistic hysteria. Yerevan, when a clear superiority of the enemy at the front became evident, did not dare to fight to the end, to fight to the death. The war showed the lack of unity of the Armenian political elite, various parties and people. Only split and discord.

Armenians from Russia and other countries did not go to fight for their historical lands did not start raising funds for the war (Armenian communities around the world have great financial opportunities). They preferred to look for the guilty - Pashinyan (who, of course, is guilty, but not alone), Russia and the Russians. Although Russia did not betray them. The Armenians themselves fell for the slogans of the nationalists about "Great Armenia" and ran into a grievous defeat. The Armenians who moved to Russia, Europe, the USA and Canada showed their love for their homeland only in words. In fact, their own well-being, primarily material well-being, comes first. They do not want to die for Karabakh and Armenia. Only a small part of the Armenians at that time showed their readiness to go to the front line and fight for their homeland (honor and praise for them). Others at this time held meetings and "fought" in the network. In general - woe to the vanquished.

Lessons for Russia


As noted above, Turkey has again burst into the former sphere of our influence. Three hundred years of military-political efforts and a lot of blood of the Russian people in the Caucasus - the Kremlin "bargained" for three decades.

In fact, now Russia finds itself in the situation of 1904 and 1914. Shameful failures in the war with Japan. The heroism of Russian soldiers and sailors did not evoke any positive response in Russian society, on the contrary, among the students, only criticism. Hurray-patriotic frenzy at the beginning of the war with Germany, and then the complete collapse and disintegration of Russian society. Military failures triggered the collapse of the empire. The soldiers and officers still fought steadily and courageously, took heavy blows and beat the enemy themselves, while the generals and "high society" were already intriguing against the autocracy. The result was the betrayal of the "elite" in February 1917, the state and civilizational collapse, bloody Troubles and intervention. Parade of sovereignty.

Today everything is repeated. The lessons of history are not learned. There is no project for the future of the country. Material well-being according to Western standards is satisfied only by a small percentage of the population. The masses of the people are busy only with survival, caring for their daily bread and family. At the same time, life is steadily deteriorating. In all areas - the economy, incomes of the population, the already obvious disaster of schools and health care, the physical and mental health of the nation. Extinction of the people. The state management system, especially against the backdrop of the "pandemic", sank sharply. There is no unity of the country's leadership, the party in power and the people. And it cannot be, since social injustice in the Russian Federation has reached unprecedented heights. Officials and deputies can talk about patriotism, with salaries and incomes in the hundreds of thousands and millions of rubles (and some have whole "kamaz" of money and values). And ordinary pensioners and teachers survive on pensions and salaries of 12–20 thousand rubles.

Thus, there is no unity between the authorities and the people, as in 1941. We are on the brink of war with the new Turkish empire, behind which (as before) is the West (in particular, Britain). The first shots have already fired in Syria, Libya and the Caucasus. Turkey is aiming further: the Caspian Sea, historical Turkestan, the North Caucasus, then the Crimea and the Volga region. At the same time, NATO is preparing bridgeheads in the western strategic direction. In fact, everything is simple. The law of the jungle rules in world politics. "Human rights", "democracy", humanism and pacifism are tools for destroying the enemy. Under the thunder of beautiful slogans they destroy competitors. The strongest survives. Now the Russian Federation is showing weakness. Both regional and global predators see it.

Russia is not ready for war. V.V. Putin has been avoiding confrontation for 20 years. When the Kremlin is forced into war - Georgia (2008), Ukraine (2014), Syria (2015), it tries to “settle”, “stabilize” the situation. There is no victory, just as there is no obvious defeat. At the exit, we get zones, "fronts" where the problem is not solved, but only postponed. As in Donbass, in Ukraine as a whole. Now also in Karabakh. Moscow, culturally and financially and economically dependent on the West, cannot withstand the consistent expansion into our historical sphere of influence. Russia is "ready" for war only in words and TV pictures. Therefore, the Kremlin is fleeing any confrontation. Makes a beautiful face and retreats ...
Author:
Photos used:
https://ria.ru/
613 comments
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  1. Lexus
    Lexus 16 November 2020 15: 05
    +7
    With such "rulers" Russia is not ready for anything. Unless only for the sale of the latter.
    1. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 15: 07
      83
      Well, if you and the author get off the couch in the front rows of those going to the front and sit in the trenches, then Russia will win all.
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 16 November 2020 15: 10
        -30 qualifying.
        Your words sound like a call for the violent overthrow of "power". You would be more careful.
        1. tagil
          tagil 16 November 2020 15: 13
          +2
          I'll take care. I hope when you defeat all the enemies, the euphoria will turn your head and you will not remember me.
          1. VORON538
            VORON538 16 November 2020 15: 18
            -32 qualifying.
            He would get up from the couch like the one who fled to Ukraine, then his type was shot, but it turned out to be just a provocation of the SBU, I don't remember his last name (either Panchenko or Babchenko), but he promised to return to Moscow on the Abrams and no one needed anyone, blogger liberal with some kind of ng hi lol
            1. Lexus
              Lexus 16 November 2020 15: 29
              -3
              Golovan, "buddy", you haven't changed at all. As in a joke about flowers on a grave.
          2. Lexus
            Lexus 16 November 2020 15: 24
            35
            Milka, but I don't need euphoria about the sofa. I have already won mine. Therefore, I have a clear idea of ​​what fighting is. Unlike "victorious" and "kukuryaku".
            1. tagil
              tagil 16 November 2020 15: 29
              15
              Milka, imagine that I too. Therefore, you need to think with your head before starting a war.
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 16 November 2020 15: 34
                28
                Are you, excuse me, "wounded on the Kolchak fronts"? Where did you see me calling for war? It is in your ranks of "turbopatriots" that everything is "wet" dreaming of "# we can repeat" and "# all the peace". I am just stating the obvious.
                1. tagil
                  tagil 16 November 2020 15: 36
                  -15 qualifying.
                  And you all groan that everything is bad if the war will defeat us all?
                  1. cmax
                    cmax 16 November 2020 17: 18
                    14
                    Quote: Tagil
                    And you all groan that everything is bad if the war will defeat us all?

                    No, you will "defeat" everyone with one finger!
                    1. tagil
                      tagil 16 November 2020 17: 24
                      11
                      War even when it was easy ???? What for the country, what for the people. It is necessary to fight when all other methods have been exhausted. Don't you think?
                      1. cmax
                        cmax 16 November 2020 18: 40
                        35
                        Quote: Tagil
                        War even when it was easy ???? What for the country, what for the people. It is necessary to fight when all other methods have been exhausted. Don't you think?

                        I find it. But in order to go to fight, especially in a difficult war, I must believe in the Motherland, that what I am doing is necessary for her, even if I die. But excuse me, now the word Motherland is associated with Comrade. Miller, Rottenberg, Rosneft and other fat cats and their yachts, planes, mansions. Sending their beloved dogs to Switzerland for a haircut, as well as with grandparents who have a pension of 8-14 thousand rubles for survival.
                      2. tagil
                        tagil 16 November 2020 18: 49
                        37
                        For me, the Motherland is my family, my parents, my land, the graves of my father and grandfathers, everyone who stands behind me, even you. All these Millers and others are in the minority and not fighting for them. You can't take offense at your homeland, you won't have another one. During the Second World War, too, there were a lot of millers on the Tashkent fronts, but this did not leave the Motherland anywhere. And now she has not gone anywhere. Everything else changes.
                      3. cmax
                        cmax 16 November 2020 18: 57
                        23
                        Quote: Tagil
                        For me, the Motherland is my family, my parents, my land, the graves of my father and grandfathers, everyone who stands behind me, even you. All these Millers and others are in the minority and not fighting for them. You can't take offense at your homeland, you won't have another one. During the Second World War, too, there were a lot of millers on the Tashkent fronts, but this did not leave the Motherland anywhere. And now she has not gone anywhere. Everything else changes.

                        We cannot disagree with you. Of course, by and large you are right. Yours faithfully!
                      4. New Year day
                        New Year day 16 November 2020 20: 00
                        40
                        Quote: Tagil
                        During the Second World War, too, there were a lot of millers on the Tashkent fronts,

                        You don't compare the reproductive organ to a carrot. Sorry, but this is a substitution of concepts. In World War II, 10% of your compatriots owned 90% of the country's national wealth?
                        Then people united for the sake of a common idea - who is for Stalin, who is for mother and father, children, and note that after his death, Stalin left nothing to his children or grandchildren. Can you say the same about Putin or his "party bureau"?
                      5. tagil
                        tagil 16 November 2020 20: 14
                        -6
                        Can you tell us about Putin and his villas, dachas, bills?
                        Sorry, but this is a substitution of concepts. In World War II, 10% of your compatriots owned 90% of the country's national wealth?
                        What do you know about the panic in Moscow in November 41, and what do you know about the panic when Minsk and Kiev are abandoned? How many officials fled and took away their property? What do you know about special distributors for the highest feeder and the Komsomol? What do you know about the distribution of goods in the USSR? I can ask many more questions, but first answer these.
                      6. New Year day
                        New Year day 16 November 2020 22: 14
                        38
                        Quote: Tagil
                        Can you tell us about Putin and his villas, dachas, bills?

                        I can! This is the whole country, this is my frozen pension, which cannot be lived on, these are yachts, palaces and double basses of his friends.

                        Quote: Tagil
                        What do you know about the panic in Moscow in November 41, and what do you know about the panic when Minsk and Kiev are abandoned?

                        For the smartest? Except you, no one reads anything?
                        Use carrots for their intended purpose
                        Quote: Tagil
                        What do you know about special distributors for the highest feeder and the Komsomol? What do you know about the distribution of goods in the USSR?

                        Smart ass! It was before my eyes. It's not for you to tell me.
                        Only flew into space, and now on a trampoline. The luxury of the 1st state secretary of the regional party committee at that time was not comparable to the luxury of the mayor of the uyezd city of Ugrobinsk.
                        And they did not collect money for the treatment of SMS-kamt for children. And if they printed about you in the newspaper - either retired or down. And now - an order, a certificate and the return of the confiscated
                      7. tagil
                        tagil 16 November 2020 22: 22
                        -26 qualifying.
                        How else have you not hanged yourself from such "justice"? Stop whining, your generation has fucked up the country if that. So there is no need to tell me about the regional committee. Tired of the exposer of everything. When the country was beaten, what did you think about?
                      8. New Year day
                        New Year day 16 November 2020 22: 26
                        +9
                        Quote: Tagil
                        How have you not hanged yourself from such "justice"

                        After you
                        Quote: Tagil
                        Stop whining, your generation has been fucked up

                        Hey, kid, where were you in 91? Why didn't you come out to defend the Union? I was standing at gunpoint in Novofedorovka
                        Quote: Tagil
                        When the country was beaten, what did you think about?

                        Indicate the address or can you find the way yourself?
                      9. tagil
                        tagil 16 November 2020 22: 39
                        +1
                        Listen, grandfather, when you were standing at gunpoint in 91, I was fighting on the border at the age of nineteen, exactly in 91. Two against seven. I can specify the address myself. And the avatar suits you, matches the character.
                      10. Serg65
                        Serg65 17 November 2020 09: 16
                        +9
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        I was standing at gunpoint in Novofedorovka

                        Iiiii ????
                    2. awdrgy
                      awdrgy 17 November 2020 11: 03
                      +3
                      Yes, we were small, but there were rumors that it would be like this (from grandmothers from grandfathers) It seems like the godless communists said they would leave and come even worse who would ruin everything and sell it to the end and the people would die out And then there will come such a moment that in general the edge is well, and then like a riot not a riot, but in general they will be overthrown and there will be a tsar again And if this does not happen for some reason, then the Russian people will die out until there is very little of it Then there will be no one to unite all other peoples and Russia will fall apart and then the Russian people will completely disappear But all this will slowly happen because the one who conceived all this thought that if you do it quickly, then a riot can happen (well, like how a frog is boiled over low heat) and you can take your time because they thought that resources will start to run out completely not right tomorrow and the time until we all fall apart so that we still have to divide everything. Like how everyone tried quickly under Yeltsin (greed, nevertheless), but the truth began to approach the rebellion. Slowly they began to do as according to plan and it was. Maybe someone at the top understood all this and began to resist? but this already does not change anything Well, I heard this back in the 80s and I see that everything is as they said
                    3. victor50
                      victor50 17 November 2020 20: 35
                      +8
                      Quote: Tagil
                      How else have you not hanged yourself from such "justice"? Stop whining, your generation has fucked up the country if that.

                      And you, apparently, will never be responsible for anything! Just shuffle! With any power. For the last 30-20 years, haven't you been asking ... Moreover, what the previous generation built, not you. Soon they will grow up, those who will ask you, what will you tell and show them? Foreign cars, mortgage apartments, imported products from Mr. made? The accuser was found ...
                  2. Serg65
                    Serg65 17 November 2020 09: 06
                    +3
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    secretary of state

                    Hope it's a typo ...
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    1-state secretary of the regional party committee is then not comparable with the luxury of the mayor of the district town of Ugrobinsk.

                    what You have now very much offended the hero of Ukraine, comrade Bagrov !!!
                2. AleksUkr
                  AleksUkr 19 November 2020 02: 38
                  -1
                  Picked up questions from our liberals! Say something of your own. and don't be stupid. In case of conflict, you will be the first to run. Already passed. "Hero" sofa.
              2. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 17 November 2020 13: 47
                -5
                As always, your sect pops up only in some topics, and as always, some slogans and pseudo-communist chants. Sylvester, are you tired?
              3. lewerlin53rus
                lewerlin53rus 17 November 2020 17: 04
                +3
                And what were the peasants fighting for in 1812? for the lordly estates or the royal granaries? Why did Susanin die, who led the Poles into forests and swamps? add more examples?
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Essex62
              Essex62 17 November 2020 10: 43
              11
              Here, judging by the minuses of your post and statements, undoubtedly a fighter and Russian patriot Tagil, and many others, the zaluzhnaya evil has achieved its goal. Their youth and youth fell on a successful coup as a result of sabotage from above. Differentiation of everything, even hunger, the collapse of everything and everyone. That is what the enemies of socialism intended, the decreditation of Soviet power. And they blame our generation for loving the Union. That's right, in general. Lost. Even those who tried to prevent it fought for the Union with a counter. Everything, the country is different, it no longer belongs to the people. The psychology has changed, the youth is a stranger.
          3. Dwellernet
            Dwellernet 17 November 2020 12: 16
            11
            Do not confuse the concept of homeland and state. The homeland is protected, but with the help of the state. You can't go against drones with a stone. And our state is Milera, Sechin, Putin and others.
          4. 16329
            16329 17 November 2020 16: 57
            -7
            Homeland and state for Russia are one and the same, the rest is enemy demagoguery in any regime
          5. syndicalist
            syndicalist 17 November 2020 18: 09
            10
            Quote: 16329
            Homeland and state for Russia are one and the same

            Is that in someone's sore head.
            The state is a hired and elected apparatus for governing the country. It has nothing to do with the Motherland, the country from the word "in general". People have the right to choose both the optimal management model and the choice of specific personalities. If the current model has become inadequate to modern realities, the people have the right to change it (that is, the state). And if the choice was wrong, then change again and again. There is not and cannot be any sacredness. Yes, the transition period may be accompanied by certain costs, but they are simply negligible in comparison with those incurred by the country, society, using the current deadlock option.
          6. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 17 November 2020 19: 45
            -4
            Well, I do not.
            In Russia, it is the state that has always been the main bond. Because otherwise, due to the poverty of the feeding landscape, no Russia should have existed.
            It was the state that seized the meager surplus product that a primitive economy could provide, and converted it into a military force capable of withstanding the leading world powers.
            It was the state that was "the only European" in Russia, that is, the only civilized and civilizing subject.
            Therefore, a Russian patriot must necessarily be a statesman.
          7. l7yzo
            l7yzo 21 November 2020 21: 49
            -1
            Did you understand what you wrote ??
            The basis of the state-va - what do you think ?? And on yours some kind of clan or aristocracy comes out. Well then, do you think Russia is a clan or one caste ?? ))

            State-in is a people by common roots and goals, way of life and identity, living for a long time in the same territory.

            And I recommend flipping through the photographs of the markets of Tsarist Russia (Russian Empire) - you will be surprised at that poverty))) Do you know "Triangle" - they mention it in Kortika. And what about combines? And what about the Siberian kingdom (often called the Siberian Khanate or Siberian Tartary)? And what about the paved roads in Siberia? And what about the fact that in all cities the first and often the second floors are on a layer of soil - this is called a cultural layer. Just fill in the questions in a search engine and flip through.
  2. Dmitriy66
    Dmitriy66 16 November 2020 19: 53
    -3
    Envy is bad
    Did you go to school?
    Or did you not study in this country?
  3. Serg65
    Serg65 17 November 2020 08: 43
    +1
    Quote: cmax
    now the word Motherland is associated

    Those. go over to the side of the attackers? Well, to clear the Motherland of ..
    Miller, Rottenberg, Rosneft and other fat cats
  4. fighter angel
    fighter angel 17 November 2020 09: 04
    +9
    cmax
    You are confusing concepts.
    There is a Motherland, a Fatherland, a country - it was, is and will be.
    This is the Earth, the Country, our traditions, our spiritual and cultural values, the Memory of the past, these are ordinary Russian people, these are our children, our future.
    And there is power in this homeland. It is just the same as you wrote above.
    And I think that there is no need to identify the Motherland with the Miller-Gref-Chubais, the duck-lipped ruble fools and their dogs.
  5. Dwellernet
    Dwellernet 17 November 2020 12: 04
    10
    I would also add that I must believe that the state will not betray me, will not throw me into some kind of meat grinder, for the sake of someone's selfish interests, and there it will forget. And if something happens, he will make a sad face and say: "Forgive me to treat with understanding." But I do not and cannot trust our government and state. And without faith, how to fight?
  6. New Year day
    New Year day 16 November 2020 19: 54
    10
    Quote: Tagil
    It is necessary to fight when all other methods have been exhausted.

    You left the line of the author, the main message of the article is as follows
    ... Russia is not ready for war

    Are you already at war? For whom? And with whom?
    ... For me, the Motherland is my family, my parents, my land, the graves of my father and grandfathers, everyone who stands behind me, even you.

    What does this have to do with the collapse of the economy and society? Or do you think that people who even share your beliefs will go to die for the Motherland, which neither you nor I need anyone (judging by the destruction of social guarantees, pensions, etc.).
    The reality is much worse than your pathos.
  7. sektant777
    sektant777 18 November 2020 17: 05
    +2
    So the Kremlin, with its peacefulness (in fact, they are afraid of losing their business), gets conflicts and wars at the borders, a Russophobic government. As a result, our children will eat to the fullest
  • 16329
    16329 17 November 2020 16: 56
    0
    The author writes complete nonsense, everything is mixed together, Russia is compared with the semi-state of Armenia, it turns out that Syria was forcing Russia to start a war, Turkey suddenly climbed into the Zone of Russia's interests, and the Turks suddenly became "experts" in military affairs, tactics and strategy.
    And it is generally difficult to speak about the unity of the party and the people in 1941, taking into account the capture of almost half of the European part of the USSR by the enemy in 4-5 months of the war with the loss of more than half of the cadre army
    What a unity with the betrayal of the commanders of the districts and the surrender of the generals in command of the armies.
    Treason in Russia has always been and will be under any regime, there has never been unity and there is no, therefore, wars must be waged preventive, hybrid, use the potential of partners, and outside of Russia, which the authorities are doing with success, which is recognized in the world
  • New Year day
    New Year day 16 November 2020 19: 48
    +8
    Quote: Tagil
    And you all groan that everything is bad if the war will defeat us all?

    That is, you reject everything written by the author and are sure of the opposite? And about the stratification of society and the lack of purpose and cohesion, and about education and health care? Cool!
    Do your windows overlook the Old Square? laughing
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 16 November 2020 16: 07
    +6
    Quote: lexus
    Are you, excuse me, "wounded on the Kolchak fronts"?

    Comrade, you have iron nerves good How can you explain something to these ninjaks, because they themselves in a dream can bite off their ear and eat belay
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 16 November 2020 16: 16
      0
      Hi colleague! hi
      Yes, let at least "stsunami" let them. laughing
      1. Kart
        Kart 16 November 2020 16: 35
        -10 qualifying.
        While here they let yours.
        Tears flooded.
    2. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 17 November 2020 13: 49
      +1
      Bah, what people! Well, "warrior", now you tell me how you fought, being not served for health?
  • VORON538
    VORON538 16 November 2020 15: 34
    -6
    "I don't believe" (c)
  • Serg65
    Serg65 17 November 2020 08: 41
    -4
    Quote: lexus
    I have already won mine

    Just don’t remember where ... the contusion was probably ...
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 17 November 2020 13: 44
    -1
    I have already won mine.

    Lexus, stop lying. You are as much a warrior as Bread Cutter, who is like a "valiant Afghan paratrooper", but he himself did not serve in health. There are no warriors in your sect, only whiners and mourners.
  • AleksUkr
    AleksUkr 19 November 2020 02: 33
    0
    Those who really fought do not emphasize their "exploits". You seem to be one of the mummers. Calm down.
  • Gennady Bogdanov
    Gennady Bogdanov 23 November 2020 08: 51
    0
    Laurels of Pzhivts Fedorov do not give rest?
  • kapitan92
    kapitan92 16 November 2020 15: 14
    37
    Quote: Tagil
    Well, if you and the author get off the couch in the front rows of those going to the front and sit in the trenches, then Russia will win all.

    Russia will win when the kids of the "rulers" and the so-called elite of society are in the trenches, but they are really in the "England" or with "white tickets".
    The article is written to the point! Harsh, but fair!
    1. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 15: 18
      -19 qualifying.
      Maybe that's enough about the rulers' kids ah? Besides "kids", how many Russians live abroad and work on a permanent basis? You didn't say a word about these "traitors" of the Motherland (just don't say that they were forced to leave).
      1. kapitan92
        kapitan92 16 November 2020 15: 23
        29
        Quote: Tagil
        how many Russians live abroad and work on a permanent basis?

        Did they leave to work abroad from the "good" life in Russia?
        1. tagil
          tagil 16 November 2020 15: 27
          -15 qualifying.
          Imagine that yes. They found the money for the ticket. And how the epidemic came as they all rushed back, abandoning everything. And then back to Europe. In general, rich people do not say so. And they could have digged anti-tank ditches at home, but .....
          1. Hypertension
            Hypertension 16 November 2020 17: 24
            +7
            Quote: kapitan92
            Did they leave to work abroad from the "good" life in Russia?

            Quote: Tagil
            Imagine that yes. They found the money for the ticket.

            For you, the concept of "good" life is the equivalent of a ticket to the EU? For example: a ticket for a plane Moscow-Paris 10.000-15.000 rubles.
            1. tagil
              tagil 16 November 2020 17: 26
              -21 qualifying.
              What's a bad life for you?
              1. Hypertension
                Hypertension 16 November 2020 17: 27
                12
                When a question is answered with a question.
                1. tagil
                  tagil 16 November 2020 17: 35
                  +4
                  Good. How many workers we now have in factories, and how many people have higher education now, just because it is fashionable (young people apply for admission to several universities at once, and they don't care what specialty they get), they never worked in their specialty and will never go to the plant. Show me at least a dozen workers who have gone abroad. But there are plenty of dog hairdressers who have left. It’s definitely bad for them in our country. don’t you?
                  1. Hypertension
                    Hypertension 16 November 2020 17: 57
                    +4
                    Quote: Tagil
                    How many workers we now have in factories, and how many people have higher education now, just because it is fashionable (young people apply for admission to several universities at once, and they don't care what specialty they get), they never worked in their specialty and will never go to the plant.

                    How dare they get a higher education, and then not work at the factory!
                    Quote: Tagil
                    But there are plenty of dog hairdressers who have left. It’s definitely bad for them in our country. don’t you?

                    By itself. With such and such an income, where does the money for a dog hairdresser come from? We have to cut the dogs ourselves anyhow.
                  2. tagil
                    tagil 16 November 2020 18: 02
                    0
                    I wanted to say that people are leaving who only consume, but do not produce. The sense of education if you go to work as a sales manager, not an engineer. Only I think that they are not needed abroad either, there are enough of our own managers. So a good life and a bad life for everyone has its own definition.
                  3. Hypertension
                    Hypertension 16 November 2020 18: 05
                    +8
                    Quote: Tagil
                    I wanted to say that people are leaving who only consume, but do not produce.

                    Where do you get statistics on those who left? How many workers and how many hairdressers?
                    Quote: Tagil
                    So a good life and a bad life for everyone has its own definition.

                    With you, I think, sorted out. Or not? Still, 15000 per ticket is already good in your opinion? And if this amount was accumulated for six months or a year?
                    And to someone and 90 thousand rubles. the pension is not enough.
                    Olympic champion Natalya Bestemyanova complained about her pension of 90 thousand rubles
                  4. tagil
                    tagil 16 November 2020 18: 10
                    -1
                    Understood! Wonderful.
                2. uhu189
                  uhu189 16 November 2020 21: 06
                  +8
                  Unfortunately, not only those who consume. Some good doctors tend to leave, many scientists, programmers. Those who are leaving are those who see the strength in themselves to settle there, and who can compete with the locals. And these are far from consumers. These are in many ways those who could work here and bring benefit. I do not want to evaluate or condemn them, this is the choice of every person, but, unfortunately, we have far from the best working conditions in the country.
                3. tagil
                  tagil 16 November 2020 21: 12
                  +3
                  Maxim, all this is true, but after all, not everyone has left, it’s true, and mostly young people are leaving, who take globalization for granted. This is a trend all over the world and we are no exception. All for some reason only compare salaries, but look at prices for housing and communal services, food, taxes. And it turns out that Europe is far from heaven.
                4. uhu189
                  uhu189 16 November 2020 21: 46
                  +7
                  Of course not, not heaven at all. But the question is in the future. Do you know the common phrase - Russia is one of the few developed countries where people cannot earn money by working. Yes, of course there are exceptions to this rule, but this is largely true. But in the same Europe - it is not so ... Here the question is in the conditions - if they created favorable conditions in the country - they would not go from us, but on the contrary to us. But these conditions do not exist
                5. tagil
                  tagil 16 November 2020 21: 59
                  +7
                  But the question is in the future. Do you know the common phrase - Russia is one of the few developed countries where people cannot earn money by working
                  In Europe, Canada, the United States, and almost everywhere, people earn more (without holidays, vacations, weekends) than here, but these states come up with a lot of ways and taxes to take away this money. Indeed, in the United States, people live without any savings, and the standard salary of $ 1500 does not contribute to this. So everywhere. Only people will return back even more difficult than leaving there. And after all, many return after the capitalist "paradise".
                6. Alex777
                  Alex777 17 November 2020 01: 52
                  +3
                  Well done Sergey! Hold on! drinks
                7. Orkraider
                  Orkraider 17 November 2020 17: 18
                  +3
                  Quote: Tagil
                  But the question is in the future. Do you know the common phrase - Russia is one of the few developed countries where people cannot earn money by working
                  In Europe, Canada, the United States, and almost everywhere, people earn more (without holidays, vacations, weekends) than here, but these states come up with a lot of ways and taxes to take away this money. Indeed, in the United States, people live without any savings, and the standard salary of $ 1500 does not contribute to this. So everywhere. Only people will return back even more difficult than leaving there. And after all, many return after the capitalist "paradise".

                  Very clearly described!
                  My friends, I personally know, returned from America after 5 years of living there. All the money they took with them, from the sale of one of the apartments, they ate, they didn't manage to make money and create their own "startup".
                8. Intruder
                  Intruder 18 November 2020 05: 58
                  +1
                  eaten away, they failed to make money and create their own "startup".
                  - this is the main mistake of many emigrants in the United States, namely, "they ate" and "startups", there are more than in Russia, ie. wrong positioning in life failed, it happens in the range of statistical error, in principle, as in any other country, not only in the USA :) The desired does not always fit with reality, and even more so in a country, with a different culture and relations in society! Many migrants simply cannot understand this immediately, and after 5 years of life they do not understand ... and 1500 dollars a month, in the northern states and in the West of the US, in the region of 12 - 000 rubles, as in the Russian Federation, that is, for the level of poverty, not the middle class ... (I speak as a person who has a family, relatives, etc., Central California)!
                9. Baron pardus
                  Baron pardus 18 November 2020 19: 28
                  +1
                  According to banal statistics, 85% of new businesses in the United States do not last even 3 years. And this is BEFORE all the problems with the "deadly" coronavirus. When I arrived in the United States, there were small clothing, grocery, or electronics stores on every block in Chicago. Now they are gone. The Walmarts killed everything. And having opened your own business, understand that you will have to compete not only with small businesses of the same profile, but also with GIANTS like Walmart, Marianos, Mac Donalds and others like them. Even if you are an excellent programmer and have made yourself a Consulting Company, there is no chance that your company will survive. people like you are a dime a dozen. You also need to be able to sell yourself, and the locals have not only better language, but also better connections. I know a lot of excellent programmers from the USSR who say a lot, "What a successful business they have." But they are silent on one SMALL detail. This "consulting business" is a secondary project for them, and they make their main income working for someone else. Here's an example. Excellent programmer Misha S. Lives in Vernon Hills. Yes, he has his own business, does networking for small offices and at home, and is engaged in technical support. But this is about 1/4 of his income (though mostly for cash, so he does not pay taxes on it). Moreover, such a business does not provide the most important thing - HONEY INSURANCE, and it is VERY expensive if you do not work for a large company. So it works. 40 hours "for uncle" 20 hours for yourself. But everywhere he says that he has "his own successful business." and that's true, but .. NOT ALL the truth.
                10. Intruder
                  Intruder 18 November 2020 19: 41
                  +1
                  So it works. 40 hours "for uncle" 20 hours for yourself. But everywhere he says that he has "his own successful business." and that's true, but .. NOT ALL the truth.
                  this is half of the "truth", or rather a hidden part of it :) and it is bad that Misha Sh. does not have enough money for insurance, because he gets cash and does not pay taxes, and in the US it is not the best thing to do in life .. ...
                11. Baron pardus
                  Baron pardus 18 November 2020 19: 57
                  +1
                  He pays taxes from his basic salary (EMNIP he has somewhere around 120000) he is really an ace. He gets insurance there. He makes another 30K from his "side business", where he hints that they say you will pay me in cash. Everyone understands everything and pays. Catching him is IMPOSSIBLE. Nowhere is it written that you paid him. And there are MILLIONS of people like him in the USA. I know people who work in the "Jewel" food store, and work part-time at construction sites. Cash once a week. A small construction company that builds / refurbishes private houses is an ideal place to earn cash. I even know illegal Mexicans who work in such companies. I met one of them at the wrestling show Lucha Libre, well, we got into a conversation, I told him, "Well, damn it, understand, you’re here illegally," and he answered me, "Yes, it’s illegal, but I work, I don’t sell drugs, but all the claims not to me, but to the gringo that took me ILLEGALLY to work and pays me little, but more than I would earn in Mexico without even finishing school. " USA is an interesting country .. for a psychiatrist. EXTERNAL everything is very decent, decorous and law-abiding, but AT THE SMALLEST POSSIBILITY, the people will do almost anything for personal gain. One of my best friends is Chris W. Served together. The army trained him as a computer specialist. Works as a system administrator in a college. And he collects computers to order and makes networks for the people at home. For cash. My dad, he worked as an accountant, bookkeeper (retrained, in the USSR he was a musician in the Kiev Chamber). Dad still plays hack and shabashi, of course On cash. :-). Outwardly, everything is decent and legal here, but only outwardly.
                12. Intruder
                  Intruder 18 November 2020 20: 08
                  +2
                  Quote: Baron Pardus
                  He pays taxes from his basic salary (EMNIP he has somewhere around 120000) he is really an ace. He gets insurance there. He makes another 30K from his "side business", where he hints that they say you will pay me in cash. Everyone understands everything and pays. Catching him is IMPOSSIBLE. Nowhere is it written that you paid him. And there are MILLIONS of people like him in the USA. I know people who work in the "Jewel" food store, and work part-time at construction sites. Cash once a week. A small construction company that builds / refurbishes private houses is an ideal place to earn cash. I even know illegal Mexicans who work in such companies. I met one of them at the wrestling show Lucha Libre, well, we got into a conversation, I told him, "Well, damn it, understand, you’re here illegally," and he answered me, "Yes, it’s illegal, but I work, I don’t sell drugs, but all the claims not to me, but to the gringo that took me ILLEGALLY to work and pays me little, but more than I would earn in Mexico without even finishing school. " USA is an interesting country .. for a psychiatrist. EXTERNAL everything is very decent, decorous and law-abiding, but AT THE SMALLEST POSSIBILITY, the people will do almost anything for personal gain. One of my best friends is Chris W. Served together. The army trained him as a computer specialist. Works as a system administrator in a college. And he collects computers to order and makes networks for the people at home. For cash. My dad, he worked as an accountant, bookkeeper (retrained, in the USSR he was a musician in the Kiev Chamber). Dad still plays hack and shabashi, of course On cash. :-). Outwardly, everything is decent and legal here, but only outwardly.

                  Well, doing it for their own personal benefit is the lot of the majority in the world, not only in the USA, and not only migrants do this :) And the payment for the "hack" is on the side, it was at all times ...
            2. Orkraider
              Orkraider 19 November 2020 22: 31
              0
              Greetings!
              hi
              They wrote everything right. Honey. Insurance, car costs (and if both work, then two), since there is no public transport, super-expensive housing and .. life on credit, repaying it from time to time. It is a bottomless pit - that sucks in. From near San Francisco, friends left
            3. Baron pardus
              Baron pardus 19 November 2020 22: 50
              +1
              California and New York is generally an UZHOS flying on the wings of the night. The cost of REAL ESTATE in California, In a normal city (no shootouts at night), 3000 kilobucks for a small apartment. That's not the catch. There are a lot of homeless people, and according to CALIFORNIA law, you can't do ANYTHING to them if they DO NOT THREAT you. That is, a homeless person can urinate on your door, and shit under it, inject drugs, and BY LAW you cannot do ANYTHING UNTIL he took out a weapon. The bum has "civil rights". The climate is good, food is inexpensive, but real estate? AFIGET, taxes from the state - too. This happens EVERYWHERE where liberals come to power, and EVERYWHERE where the number of "unjustly oppressed nats, sex, and religious minorities" goes to a certain percentage. Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, Los Angeles, This is not the most interesting thing. The Hindu, Chinese, Korean and Philippine neighborhoods are ABSOLUTELY safe and calm.
    2. Baron pardus
      Baron pardus 18 November 2020 18: 56
      +1
      They really earn more. BUT ... the cost of living is different. Most people in the United States live paycheck to paycheck, and the average US household owes $ 10000 on credit cards (not counting mortgages and car payments). Vacation here for most people is 1-2 weeks a year. 3.5 liters of milk - the cheapest, 2.50 USD. Loaf of bread (not entirely trashy) 3.99. LBS 454g Normal Sausage 6.99. The cost of one credit hour at Community College is $ 130. In the semester, at least 12 hours. There are 2 semesters in a year. In universities, you can safely multiply by 30. When I arrived in the USA, the salary was 4 bucks an hour. The cost of one hour in college communities is $ 23. A gallon of gasoline is 99 cents. The average salary is 28 thousand. Now the average salary is 40000, that is, it has grown by a little more than a third. But prices have risen, at least twice, in some industries - once in 5. Honey insurance is included, on the national average, AFTER you paid $ 1500, and after that, pays 80% of the costs. Every year, the cost of a sticker on a car number (gives you the right to drive a car) is 150 bucks (Illinois), and there are at least two cars in the family. Real estate taxes this year lifted up in general one and a half times. The USA and Canada are now WELL NOT the countries they were in the 90s and 2000s.
  • Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 18 November 2020 18: 44
    +3
    Patriotism, like any other love, it should be a two-way road. I mean, if I pay taxes, then I have to see that the country takes care of me. That life is improving. Hospitals, schools, colleges are being built, infrastructure is maintained, security in cities. Housing is being built and the standard of living of the POPULATION is improving. That the doctor "Uhoglaz" (I hear one thing and see another) I do not need. What if the state says "ABC was done to solve the housing issue" and I see how many storeys are being built instead of the ruined survivors of the Second World War and people are being relocated, albeit not to luxurious apartments, but to apartments that are head and shoulders above the old ones. What about my taxes when I have a 38, a doctor comes to my house (free). What if my children pass their exams well, then they will be admitted to a free university (albeit not necessarily to the most prestigious, perhaps even in another city, but FREE). I mean, I care about the country (I work regularly, I pay taxes), and I SEE the results, not only for me but for everyone. After all, a new polyclinic is not only for me. A new technical school or factory is not just for me. BUT when Homeland creates them, it improves life for everyone, INCLUDING me. Then we can talk about patriotism. And about love.
    And if taxes are ripped off from me, and the standard of living is decreasing. Medical service rises in price, everything rises MUCH faster than salaries grow. And the money flows either into the pockets of the bureaucrats, or for the maintenance of a horde of welders and the protection of the rights of "oppressed sex minorities" and "oppressed national minorities" (who, by the way, do not want to work or assimilate). When everything that is being built and created is another way to separate me from my dough (well, they have built a polyclinic, but it’s worth it to go there), then we can safely say, "But in fact, what should I be to such a country?" But nothing. I honestly served in the US Army for 6 years, almost as soon as I came here. And I have no complaints about the Army. Everything that they promised me they fulfilled. But since the country has changed - over the past 15 years - this is no longer the same country, unfortunately. And people's opportunities are not at all what they were. And there are problems with freedom of speech (or rather, problems with the lack of it - see political correctness and "cancel culture"), and since the country doesn't care about me, then why the hell should I care and protect it? Now, not only would I not go into the army, but I also tell my children that they shouldn't. This is me about the United States, by the way. I don’t live in poverty, I don’t live from paycheck to paycheck, thanks to the VA hospital where I work. The army took care of me here too. OR Just lucky. I know a bunch of people who received a specialty in the Army or the Air Force (for example, my friend Tom has been repairing jet engines in the Air Force, on transport workers for 8 years, but he could not get a job in civilian life)
    And now if the state drags taxes from you, officials and oligarchs are bathed in such luxury that in the USSR the first secretary of the regional committee would have strangled himself with envy and would have said, "Well, you freaks, you need to know the boundaries." By the way, he studied with his son at the beginning of the trust at school. And this beginning of the trust lived in an ordinary 3-room apartment and not in an estate. And his son studied at school 102, and not in an elite "lyceum", and this son went to the university to the CPU, and not abroad - this is just an example. So, if the standard of living falls, crime is on the streets, society is criminalized, health care is at its peak as the notorious "Oka" (not a car, but an airplane shell), schools, technical schools, clinics are closed, and what is not closed is transferred to a paid basis. The question is - what for is a state and a government? To love such a government / state (which says "We did not ask you to give birth, we do not owe you anything") is masochism, this is already from a series of mental disorders. Syndrome of the "beaten woman" when her husband pounds on drunkenness, puts out cigarettes on her, and she continues to love and justify him. I knew such women (the mother of a friend of mine) both in the USSR and in the USA ..
    With ALL of its shortcomings, the USSR CAREDED about its citizens. And SUCH a gap between those in power and just citizens was not. Do you feel sick? No problem, the doctor will come home. Is free. New family? The country will give you an apartment. IS FREE. Perhaps I will have to wait (my parents received an apartment a YEAR after my birth. 42 square meters of living space). Was the apartment perfect? No. But it was a HUGE step up from a 15m room in a communal apartment. Technical schools, universities and factories were built. In the village where my great-aunt lived, a "house of culture" and an 8-year-old school was built in the early 60s, before me, and already when I was a child, the polyclinic was doubled, and the school became a 10-year-old school. The streets were SAFE. THIS country SHOULD be loved and protected. (and her generation of my family was solemnly loved). And if the country / government puts you in a situation where you work, pay taxes, and the standard of living (and opportunities for your children) keeps falling and falling, and in schools they teach that there are 72 options for sexual orientation, and that the whole history of your country this is a story of "oppression, enslavement and systemic racism" ... And taxes go to support the horde of welders who sport fashionable sneakers for 120 bucks, live on everything ready, have free medicine and demand more, and you buy yourself sneakers for 30 .. When traditions, norms, morals, morals are destroyed and in return there is “Repent and pay”. Then love for such is from a series of masochism. This is me, by the way, about the United States, not about Russia. But the idea is about the same. The country should take care of its citizens, and the citizens should protect it and work for the country's benefit and see that the STANDARD OF LIVING INCREASES. If this is not the case, then citizens of ANYTHING are not obliged to such a country.
    Sorry for the opus, but it hurt. In addition, the "powers that be" (or rather the money elites) stole our elections, and then the whole world will teach how to hold elections and teach democracy. Let the Zuckebergs, Bloombergs, Soros, Dorsei, Pages and Brins and Clintons and the like defend themselves.
  • Intruder
    Intruder 18 November 2020 20: 25
    +1
    Let the Zuckebergs, Bloombergs, Soros, Dorsei, Pages and Brins and Clintons and the like defend themselves.
    Ay, beautifully said about all the sore :), only "these" are more likely to find and hire those who will protect them, in any scenario and anywhere in the world!
  • Orkraider
    Orkraider 19 November 2020 22: 35
    +1
    Thank you for an interesting look from the inside. They told me similar things, but to be honest, I doubted them a little. I thought they were exaggerating.
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 17 November 2020 21: 16
    0
    Quote: Tagil
    And it turns out that Europe is far from heaven.


    In Russia too. But many more people leave than come back. They probably know something.
  • Intruder
    Intruder 18 November 2020 06: 01
    +1
    They simply do not want to return to worse conditions than where they left from: "Hell is different ..." - as he said, a few hundred years ago, one smart person ...
  • Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 18 November 2020 20: 10
    +1
    So to speak. I still have a family in Kharkov and Podolsk and in Vladimir. Even if you two go to work in the USA at 13-14 Basques per hour. (and this is quite a bit), then your standard of living in the United States will be higher than in Russia. Two working at 13.50 an hour is 56000 a year. You will have enough for renting a small apartment in a safe area and for an inexpensive car. And the mortgage is 3%, not 15%. A nurse in the United States starts working at 50-60 kilobax per year. If a honey sister comes from Russia and passes the exam (and this requires only the language), then she will earn these money. Now compare with the salary of a nurse in the same paradise polyclinic in Podolsk or Vladimir. I had a neighbor in Kiev with a sonorous surname Nemelman. In the USSR he had 27 patents or 28 patents, a Zaporozhets car and a small summer house near Kiev. PhD in Physics. When the Ukrainian SSR became a Banderostan, he, at the age of 55, rushed to the United States, together with his wife - a librarian. And his first job was at 60000 a year. Considering not only the fact that he had a good-natured English, but the fact that he did not pronounce half of the letters in Russian, FIFECT FICTIONS. I’m not saying that EVERYONE works like that, but many. And he had no illusions about the "startup". I just went to work for some company in Arizona for a good salary.
  • Overlock
    Overlock 16 November 2020 23: 55
    12
    Quote: Tagil
    I wanted to say that people are leaving who only consume, but do not produce. The sense of education if you go to work as a sales manager, not an engineer. Only I think that they are not needed abroad either, there are enough of our own managers. So a good life and a bad life for everyone has its own definition.

    You even destroyed Yandex along with Apple. And they are alive and you are using her products.
    Here is a teacher who does not produce anything, but you can read and write. Doctors, engineers, scientists of all stripes. They have taken away, and you are using their products. What do you think the Bolsheviks and Sikorsky left. You are neo-Bolshevik in the worst sense
  • tagil
    tagil 17 November 2020 00: 02
    +5
    You are a neo-Bolshevik in the worst sense
    Komsomolets, and the ticket is still there. I am surprised how someone else lives in Russia and did not leave for a happy life abroad.
    Here is a teacher who does not produce anything, but you can read and write. Doctors, engineers, scientists of all stripes.
    You are talking about the older generation.
  • AnderS
    AnderS 17 November 2020 02: 56
    +8
    What do you think the Bolsheviks and Sikorsky left.

    Really? And the Bolsheviks, except for Sikorsky, had no one left to build airplanes? Or for one Sikorsky who left, the Bolsheviks had Tupolev and Ilyushin, Sukhoi and Myasishchev, Polikarpov and Yakovlev, Kamov and Mil. Or is it your first time hearing about such? But to replace the modern left scientists who work for our potential adversary, in his universities, the Russian "authorities" have little guts to bring up worthy competitors. Before you write nonsense, think at least sometimes ...
  • Intruder
    Intruder 18 November 2020 06: 07
    +2
    Or for one Sikorsky who left, the Bolsheviks had Tupolev and Ilyushin, Sukhoi and Myasishchev, Polikarpov and Yakovlev, Kamov and Mil.
    and the bulk of the type of "Soviet technologies", especially in the field of aviation, smelled very suspiciously of copyright Western designs, and in other areas they simply bought samples and copied, as they do today in our time: China, Iran and other countries ...
  • Intruder
    Intruder 18 November 2020 06: 04
    0
    Sikorsky - a year later, he became a millionaire and a very successful person, although he sailed on a steamer with 10 dollars in his pocket (at that rate, at the beginning of the 20th century):) .... in that Russia, he would have rotted somewhere in hungry Petrograd, or what worse would have happened during the 18th year!
  • tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 17 November 2020 03: 41
    +3
    lol lol lol About dogs - cool !!!
  • VORON538
    VORON538 16 November 2020 15: 39
    +5
    Suffice it to recall all the children of the opposition, especially non-systemic ones, as well as their leaders: where do they live, where is the business, where is the real estate? everything is in the west, like everyone else.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 16 November 2020 20: 07
      15
      Quote: VORON538
      real estate? everything in the west, like everyone else

      Do yours? I believe that the majority of the country's population has children at home.
      Quote: VORON538
      all opposition children, especially non-systemic ones,

      Indicate, pliz ... But about the children of today's elite, you can safely list: Zolotov, Naryshkin. By the way, fighter for justice, explain to us the meaning of Putin's decree on the right of the top of the FSB to receive passports for travel to permanent residence. Previously, he, Putin, forbade it laughing
      1. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 22: 13
        12
        I believe that the majority of the country's population has children at home.

        Many people, I suppose (like me, for example) have children without a home, without work, without social guarantees and without a future.
        They earn their bread on covens, money from which is only enough to eat a day and pay for a rented apartment in housing in the middle of the last century.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 16 November 2020 22: 17
          +4
          Quote: DED_peer_DED
          Many people, I suppose (like me, for example) have children without a home, without work, without social guarantees and without a future.

          This is what voronov and Tagil are happy with. It doesn't matter that the hard workers hang themselves out of despair on the "Wagon" - they have everything in openwork.
        2. Recon
          Recon 17 November 2020 01: 37
          +1
          Who is to blame?
        3. Hagen
          Hagen 17 November 2020 07: 38
          -11 qualifying.
          Quote: DED_peer_DED
          Many people, I suppose (like me, for example) have children without a home, without work, without social guarantees and without a future.
          They earn their bread on covens, money from which is only enough to eat a day and pay for a rented apartment in housing in the middle of the last century.

          Are you proud of this? You raised him and brought him up so that he is without everything. He was trained in such a way that he is not in demand, does not have a profession that could feed him. And here neither Putin nor the government is to blame that you raised your child not adapted to life. It's your fault.
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 18 November 2020 06: 09
        0
        Previously, he, Putin, forbade it
        He is the king, he knows better :))) (I remembered Vysotsky's song: "about a giraffe with a long ...")
    2. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 23: 36
      0
      Quote: VORON538
      Suffice it to recall all the children of the opposition, especially non-systemic ones, as well as their leaders: where do they live, where is the business, where is the real estate? everything is in the west, like everyone else.

      I would like to hear about Udaltsov, for example, where are his children and real estate? Or about Dvurechensky, what can you tell? You got the balabolas already. Overseas business and real estate on the non-systemic left. Ha-ha-ha.
  • Lexus
    Lexus 16 November 2020 15: 51
    20
    Vyacheslav hi, "whiskers carrying a blizzard" as if in spirit said that they had sent their offspring abroad, I quote, "so that they get used to difficulties from an early age." winked laughing
  • Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 16 November 2020 18: 35
    +8
    From free. Here, no one wants to do anything, under various pretexts even for themselves, but for ready-made, like rats, even for distillation
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 16 November 2020 15: 56
    10
    Quote: Tagil
    Maybe that's enough about the rulers' kids ah? Besides "kids", how many Russians live abroad and work on a permanent basis? You didn't say a word about these "traitors" of the Motherland (just don't say that they were forced to leave).

    Are you seriously writing all this game? belay Well, it cannot be that you are surrounded from all sides by enemies, who are even former friends, plus even internal ones and Zhidapechenegs and Geyurop a reptile, and then there is tryampvash. belay
    Tin, as people uproots brains from the TV. wassat
    PySy. I don't need to advise me anything, like buying tickets laughing
    1. cmax
      cmax 16 November 2020 17: 30
      0
      Quote: Stroporez
      Quote: Tagil
      Maybe that's enough about the rulers' kids ah? Besides "kids", how many Russians live abroad and work on a permanent basis? You didn't say a word about these "traitors" of the Motherland (just don't say that they were forced to leave).

      Are you seriously writing all this game? belay Well, it cannot be that you are surrounded from all sides by enemies, who are even former friends, plus even internal ones and Zhidapechenegs and Geyurop a reptile, and then there is tryampvash. belay
      Tin, as people uproots brains from the TV. wassat
      PySy. I don't need to advise me anything, like buying tickets laughing

      You're right. According to Zhvanetsky. Maybe at the conservatory to fix something!
  • Revival
    Revival 16 November 2020 16: 10
    20
    So!
    If you have not noticed, then we are talking about the children of "officials" and the like.
    And this is a big difference with ordinary people!
    To an official, especially at the top, a lot of everything from ordinary people (in particular, the budget) was taken and given away, that's why the demand from them is completely different than from ordinary people!
    1. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 16: 59
      -14 qualifying.
      That is, you can be dumped abroad because because, well, at the same time, if something is betrayed or sold to the Motherland, but the official (whom you yourself have chosen or the majority) is that he is not a person with all his shortcomings (God, we have only one and then in heaven)? I do not make excuses for the officials (Navalny and his family should be sorry), but then everyone should be responsible. And then I'll see that apart from officials, everyone else is just saints.
      1. Revival
        Revival 16 November 2020 17: 34
        28
        There was no talk at all about the betrayal of the Motherland.
        And the official, taking his children abroad, gives leverage to himself, and he, among other things, makes decisions that affect the fate of the people, which is why the measures are completely different.
        Besides, an official is also called upon (to a much greater extent than an ordinary citizen) to make life in the country better, including better than where he takes the children out, that's why the demand from him is ten times stricter!
        1. tagil
          tagil 16 November 2020 17: 39
          -13 qualifying.
          Everything you say is correct. But again you forget that an official is the same person who, like you, wants to relax in Turkey or Cyprus. It's not that he takes his children abroad. The fact is that these children would not fall into power after school. In my opinion we have a law for this.
          1. Revival
            Revival 16 November 2020 17: 44
            21
            Yes, we have plenty of laws.
            Since 2006, there has been a law banning citizenship for MPs, etc.
            Yes, something had to be pushed into the constitution ...
            And still something is not heard rustling of the mandates being handed over ..
            The nice title of the amendment has done its job, the "Moor" may go away ... especially since the "Moor" turned out to be a "naked king" even before the adoption, the point about the prohibition of real estate was blown away in public even before the adoption ..
            And to have a rest in Turkey, it's not to take out permanent residence and study!
            1. tagil
              tagil 16 November 2020 17: 48
              -13 qualifying.
              You know, I can argue, but I won't. But I guess that whichever group comes to power, they will also send their children abroad. If you disagree, name those who will be honest as an angel in power.
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 16 November 2020 18: 04
                11
                Quote: Tagil
                But I guess that whichever group comes to power, they will also send their children abroad. If you disagree, name those who will be honest as an angel in power.

                Do you really not understand what they are telling you or pretend to be?
                And now, point by point, there should be such people in power so that there is no need for foreign education, but to make one's own, not worse, but better. It is the same with medicine, remember that they are servants of the people, hired by that people for a time to perform certain duties! And with your position you are simply trying to take our lives from direct genocide, and our children have a future!
                I hope so understand?
              2. tagil
                tagil 16 November 2020 18: 15
                -13 qualifying.
                If you disagree, name those who will be honest as an angel in power.
                I did not see the answer who these people are.
              3. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 16 November 2020 18: 20
                +8
                Quote: Tagil
                I did not see the answer who these people are.

                Even your candidacy in the current conditions will be better, but if you are not sure of your decency, then I can offer my modest candidacy soldier
              4. tagil
                tagil 16 November 2020 18: 27
                -6
                For some reason I thought so. You understand a sling cutter (nothing on you?) Everything you say, you talk about an ideal society, but this does not happen. And even you, no matter how ideal the ball is, you will not be able to realize what you dream of. Well, it won't work. I do not consider myself ideal, and if God forbid I find myself in power, so that I can somehow straighten things out, I will jump to dictatorship, I do not see any other way. So it's better without me.
          2. Hagen
            Hagen 17 November 2020 13: 50
            -6
            Quote: Stroporez
            in power there should be such people so that there is no need for foreign education, but to make their own not worse, but better. It is the same with medicine, remember that they are servants of the people, hired by that people for a time to perform certain duties!

            Ideally, maybe yes. But without knowing what is there, abroad, you will never understand "how you are here." Nevertheless, one must have something to compare with. About servants - stupidity. There, among the officials (as I understand it, we do not mean the workers of rural state civil service agencies, who can also be civil servants) of high rank are the same people as you, and me, and many others, but unlike you and me, We have moved a little further up the career ladder, mostly due to some qualities that we lacked. And these qualities are not always negative. It can be persistence in achieving goals, a desire to learn new something, it can be the ability to take responsibility and lead other people. And most importantly, they can worry about the results of their work and love their (ours including) homeland no less than yours. As people who have gone through a serious school of life and love their children, they make tangible efforts to educate and educate them. This is normal for serious people. I know enough specialists from private business (from the category of employees) who also give their children the opportunity to study abroad and even live for some time in the housing they have purchased there. It is available today. And we sometimes take away the future of our children ourselves when we remember their upbringing and study a week before graduation. Nothing harms children more than lack of attention from their own parents. Even in the countryside, today you can get the level of secondary education that allows children to move through life, and quite successfully. And instead of chattering about "genocides" of different stripes, you go to your child and ask what the child did at school, ask about his academic performance, his friends and foes, problems. There will be more sense and problems with "genocides" will be solved by themselves.
        2. Revival
          Revival 16 November 2020 23: 22
          0
          We do not select gatekeepers for the gates to paradise, angels are not meant, but the absence of angels does not justify the presence of a complete .......................
        3. Essex62
          Essex62 17 November 2020 11: 28
          +1
          The Bolsheviks, true communists, will not. And honest ones, like an angel, do not exist in nature. Like the angels themselves, priestly nonsense. Another imperious bond for slaves. Only in the modern world it does not roll at all. Only former Soviet churches go to churches.
          It worked in the Union, why can't it work now?
  • Lannan Shi
    Lannan Shi 16 November 2020 18: 01
    11
    Quote: Tagil
    but the official (whom you yourself chose or the majority) is that he is not a person with all his shortcomings

    If he is a man with his own shortcomings, then a broomstick in his hands (a more complicated bureaucrat is definitely not worth trusting), and wells for free bread. And if he is an official, then he is not a man, but a screw in the state machine. And for thoughts, how to attach the children to the hillock, he must be assigned to the bunk. And if he doesn't want to be a cog ... Then again, a broom in his hands.
  • bk0010
    bk0010 16 November 2020 19: 53
    +7
    Quote: Tagil
    And then I'll see that apart from officials, everyone else is just saints.
    Exactly. The rest do not manage the resources of the state. And there is a special demand from officials. An official who does not work in the interests of the country, the social equivalent of cancer. And all the rest are not part of the organism of the state, but simply the social equivalent of the environment. Feel the difference.
    1. Hypatius
      Hypatius 17 November 2020 18: 42
      0
      Don't be nitpicky, just for the sake of accuracy for the future:
      An official who does not work in the interests of the country ...
      An official is a rank in the service. It serves, it doesn't work (that's the main difference). Before the service, it is not for nothing that they usually take the oath.
      In an amicable way, all bureaucrats must take an oath. And strike in rights for its violation for life.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 16 November 2020 20: 10
    +9
    Quote: Tagil
    That is, you can dump abroad

    And why did the Naryshkin family receive a residence permit in the Czech Republic? Why Putin canceled his decree and with a new decree allowed the generals to receive a second citizenship? This is to start
    1. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 20: 17
      -7
      Your inferences are just your inferences. What cockroaches are not found in the head.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 16 November 2020 22: 06
        0
        Quote: Tagil
        Your reasoning is

        So you can't read either? Bottom!
        Use a search engine and don't listen to General Vonyaev
  • New Year day
    New Year day 16 November 2020 20: 15
    10
    Quote: Tagil
    And then I'll see that apart from officials, everyone else is just saints.

    Why are you all rowing wholesale? More than 20 million people live in poverty in the country, 30% of medical institutions do not have hot water. Is it the officials who live like this or because of them the rest of them live like this? Who is stealing the budget? Doctors and nurses? Teachers and educators? Or officials, of whom there are many times more in comparison with the Union. The population is smaller, the territory is smaller, and there are more officials. Paradox
    1. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 20: 21
      -7
      Yes, yes, everything is bad, all the thieves, everything ruined everything. Only once here you knock on the keys, it means there is light, probably garbage is taken out and there is bread in the store, buses run. I have a lot more to say. It means that bad officials are at least good for something, since you are publishing about them here.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 16 November 2020 22: 05
        0
        Quote: Tagil
        there is bread in the store

        Do not specify the price? How many times did the cost of living fall after the slamming door to OPEC and the fall in oil prices and the flight of the ruble into space?
      2. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 22: 37
        -3
        Only once here you knock on the keys, it means there is light, probably garbage is taken out and there is bread in the store

        Officials, it means, logically, no longer eat bread from the "principle", do not use garbage, they try everything for the people, they leave it to their beloved. And they themselves do not need anything, everything is for us.
        1. tagil
          tagil 16 November 2020 22: 40
          0
          Yeah, everything is for us.
      3. Revival
        Revival 16 November 2020 23: 25
        +7
        We do not need those "who are at least good for something", and the argument well, they do not beat you and do not rape you every day "means good, it does not pass, here are not serf slaves
        1. tagil
          tagil 16 November 2020 23: 31
          -1
          Listen, according to your logic, I do not understand at all how our country still exists, if all our officials are so bad. And nothing that these officials grew up in this country, they were brought up like that. And it turns out that these thieving, incompetent hundreds of thousands! Maybe then it's not the officials, but the people who live in Russia. Proceeding from this, then the entire population is no better than officials.
          1. Essex62
            Essex62 17 November 2020 12: 02
            +2
            And just as it existed before the well-known events, the beginning of the last century.
            The problem is not in a specific Ivan Ivanovich. The system allows him to enrich himself; in general, it does not prohibit everyone from doing this. Please, elbows the running alongside, kill, steal, so that there is enough for the ransom and you have enough left. Well capitalism, in general.
            Only our capitalism has grown out of the gangster chaos of the 90s and the laws of wolf packs continue to operate. It will not work, not belonging to the group, this. And people with a conscience have zero chances at all.
            Conclusion - the ban on personal enrichment is the only solution. The authorities can be allowed only a minimal excess of benefits over the rest of the citizens, for really creative, tireless work for their good and the good of the Motherland.
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 22: 30
    -1
    Quote: Tagil
    And then I'll see that apart from officials, everyone else is just saints.

    There ... everyone will answer fairly.
    But, for some reason, you want here too, if you stole a nail - pay 15 kopecks to the cashier, if you stole a plant - for national construction for 15 years, or even better ...
    1. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 22: 35
      +1
      But, for some reason, you want here too, if you stole a nail - pay 15 kopecks to the cashier, if you stole a plant - for national construction for 15 years, or even better ...
      I would like to, but has it ever been so?
      1. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 22: 48
        +1
        Quote: Tagil
        I would like to, but has it ever been so?

        That is how it should be.
        1. tagil
          tagil 16 November 2020 22: 51
          +3
          Yes, everyone understands everything, but for some reason, your shirt is always closer to the body. Only we live in a different world.
          1. DED_peer_DED
            DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 22: 57
            +2
            Quote: Tagil
            Yes, everyone understands everything, but for some reason, your shirt is always closer to the body. Only we live in a different world.

            So, why, then, should this world order sing praises?
          2. tagil
            tagil 16 November 2020 23: 03
            +1
            So, why, then, should this world order sing praises?
            Me and praises are not compatible things. just a statement of facts. Many simply cannot accept, or understand what kind of world they live in. I would like to change all this (I would gladly return to the USSR), but the water does not flow backwards.
          3. DED_peer_DED
            DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 23: 07
            0
            Quote: Tagil
            but the water does not flow backwards.

            Stalin also promised to help in this matter. Did not have time
          4. tagil
            tagil 16 November 2020 23: 11
            +1
            Yes, Stalin is a personality comparable to Peter the Great and the Terrible, although both of them did not have successors after his death, there was no one to continue what he had begun. It's a shame.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Svarog
    Svarog 16 November 2020 15: 21
    19
    Quote: kapitan92
    Harsh, but fair!

    The time for diplomatic streamlined statements is already ending .. they do not reach the addressee ..
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 16 November 2020 15: 56
      +8
      Vladimir hi,
      to the "addressee", looking at how he plays with the text and the folder, along the way, much "does not reach".
      1. cmax
        cmax 16 November 2020 17: 32
        +4
        Quote: lexus
        Vladimir hi,
        to the "addressee", looking at how he plays with the text and the folder, along the way, much "does not reach".

        And in Belarus, too, it didn’t come to one unchangeable. And it seems that even now it does not reach. By the way.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 16 November 2020 20: 58
          -3
          Quote: cmax
          And it doesn't seem to reach now

          The worse and more painful the fall will be. And it will
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Flooding
    Flooding 16 November 2020 16: 04
    +6
    Quote: kapitan92
    Russia will win when the kids of the "rulers" are in the trenches

    When did this happen? It is not worth giving isolated examples.
    1. Kart
      Kart 16 November 2020 16: 39
      -12 qualifying.
      When the kids of the fighters with the regime of all colors sit in the trenches, then Russia will win.
      They won’t sit down. Their parents taught that.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 16 November 2020 16: 44
        -4
        Until now, I somehow managed to win in spite of everything.
        1. Lannan Shi
          Lannan Shi 16 November 2020 18: 06
          +4
          Quote: Flood
          Until now, I somehow managed to win in spite of everything.

          Until now, neither the Russian Empire, nor the USSR, nor post-Soviet Russia had a defense minister who, according to the terms of the current Criminal Code, is an evader from military service. If for me, then the army led by a deserter .... The chances of victory are ambiguous.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 16 November 2020 20: 48
            +1
            The funny thing about your comment is that you consider yourself competent enough to assess Shoigu's professional suitability and the country's defense capability.
          2. Flooding
            Flooding 16 November 2020 21: 25
            +1
            Quote: Lannan Shi
            who, according to the terms of the current Criminal Code, is a dodger from military service

            Do you have information that he did not graduate from college as a reserve lieutenant?
            Quote: Lannan Shi
            If for me, then the army led by a deserter

            Excuse me, just now you have Shoigu was an evader.
            Now, without hesitation, you have branded him a deserter.
            Is that allowed? Teach you how you can be both a deviator and a deserter at the same time.
            Or is there no difference for you?
            1. kamakama
              kamakama 18 November 2020 10: 28
              -2
              A purely formal feature. What is the length of service in the RF Armed Forces for the current Minister of Defense and in what ranks? On the basis of which he missed as many as 5 feet (we generally omit the fact that the departments are different and when moving from one to another rank at least decreases, or even does not remain at all due to obvious incompetence with such a transfer) and from a lieutenant of the reserve of the USSR Armed Forces instantly became as a major general of the Russian Emergencies Ministry (http://kremlin.ru/acts/bank/3460), and then as an army general (http://kremlin.ru/acts/bank/19510). It's funny, but in the first order, at least it is clearly indicated in which department the rank is. In the second, this is not. That is, an army general of what? FSB, MVD, VS, EMERCOM?
              From the point of view of regular military personnel, he does not look any better than Ivanov or Serdyukov. Even worse, because for the sake of "weight" he was put on a military uniform with one small but very colorful detail - if you look closely at the stripes even on the official photo, then he does not have the words "Armed Forces" or "Armed Forces". Simply "Russia", that is, "like a general of the army" - this is a suit of this cut for him.
              I do not in any way diminish the organizational skills of this person, they are also considerable. But such an incident looks at least ridiculous.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 16 November 2020 20: 02
    +1
    Quote: kapitan92
    in the trenches there will be children of the "rulers" and the so-called elite of society,

    It will never be
    Quote: kapitan92
    The article is written to the point! Harsh, but fair!

    Definitely!
  • Svarog
    Svarog 16 November 2020 15: 19
    23
    Quote: Tagil
    Well, if you and the author get off the couch in the front rows of those going to the front and sit in the trenches, then Russia will win all.

    For whom, for what to get up from the couch? These figures have repeatedly spoken out .. that if he didn’t fit into the market, then he himself somehow .. go retrain or go into business ..
    I think in this case, the answer should be the same .. Why should I or my loved ones die for their super-profits or capital?
    1. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 16 November 2020 15: 21
      +9
      For whom, for what to get up from the couch?

      You will stand up for the children !!!
      1. Kart
        Kart 16 November 2020 16: 39
        -8
        These?
        These are only for their children. They don't care about the rest.
      2. bondrostov
        bondrostov 16 November 2020 22: 01
        +1
        For the children it is of course yes .. BUT I am trying to save my own simply by taking them out of here! I won't die for this power I don't WANT! And the homeland ... sorry for her, but I no longer see the future at all. About 6 years ago, I have seen it now.
        1. Interlocutor
          Interlocutor 16 November 2020 22: 16
          -4
          For the children it is of course yes .. BUT I am trying to save my own simply by taking them out of here! I won't die for this power I don't WANT! And the homeland ... sorry for her, but I no longer see the future at all. About 6 years ago, I have seen it now.


          I will not earn a second scar from a moderator. Well, you understand who you are ....... You even have the word Motherland, with a small letter .... devil.
          1. bondrostov
            bondrostov 16 November 2020 22: 23
            +2
            No. Just after all the kiddies of this homeland. After spitting on ordinary people, let her herself. My HOMELAND disappeared in 91. and this country ... I will save my family. So everything is simple for me in this sense.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 17 November 2020 08: 30
              -5
              Quote: bondrostov
              and this country ... I will save my family

              Where did the deserter "take" his family?

              To the occupier? So you have to shoot at your own rations for the family.

              To neutrals? Show me where they were in WWII.

              You will have to pay for your canine existence with betrayal of the Motherland (and who needs you there in a different capacity) with conscience, humiliation, lack of rights and women.
              1. bondrostov
                bondrostov 17 November 2020 13: 58
                +1
                Enough pathos for me, it does not work. Women, humiliation .. leave your cliché with you! I will go to Thailand with a friend of mine who has been living for 6 years and no one humiliates him and has found a lot for himself and everything is fine with him.
                1. WILL
                  WILL 18 November 2020 14: 44
                  0
                  Quote: bondrostov
                  Enough pathos for me, it does not work. Women, humiliation .. leave your cliché with you! I will go to Thailand with a friend of mine who has been living for 6 years and no one humiliates him and has found a lot for himself and everything is fine with him.

                  That's right, take it out. Fewer rats will be on the deck.
                  1. bondrostov
                    bondrostov 18 November 2020 17: 13
                    -1
                    Follow the words I did not offend you. If there were fewer uryakolki and couch warriors of nakedness, then the country would not turn into a homeless ...
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 18 November 2020 15: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: bondrostov
                  Women, humiliation .. leave your cliché with you! I will leave for Thailand, my acquaintance has been living there for 6 years and no one humiliates him and local I found myself and everything is fine with him.

                  so run faster, and then the bodies SHOOT for desertion. And you won't find MEAT.
                  Yes, and don't forget: the local army will also call you. when you need it, and you go to fight, with the Chinese, Japanese, etc., and you will not go anywhere, otherwise they will shoot (they will do it right)
    2. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 15: 22
      -3
      I think in this case, the answer should be the same .. Why should I or my loved ones die for their super-profits or capital?
      Well, if you don't want to die for "our" capital, you can change your place of residence and die for the American, Polish, Chinese and so on. capital. The capitalists will not let you sit on the sidelines, this is the law of the bourgeoisie.
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 16 November 2020 15: 24
        +3
        Quote: Tagil
        Well, if you don't want to die for "our" capital, you can change your place of residence and die for the American, Polish, Chinese and so on. capital.

        No ... let them change their place of residence and fight for themselves ... a lot of money, so let them buy an army of mercenaries ... Chinese, Polish and others ..
        1. Kart
          Kart 16 November 2020 16: 41
          -8
          Yep, exactly!
          On the other side, the damned capitalists will sit down - and here we are from the rear, you fighters for justice.
          1. DED_peer_DED
            DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 23: 01
            -1
            Quote: Carte
            and here you are from the rear

            You have fantasies, however.
          2. Intruder
            Intruder 18 November 2020 07: 04
            +2
            From the other side, the damned capitalists will sit down
            and here, the "damned commies" will patriotically harass everyone .... after all, it was a hundred years ago, history goes in a spiral :)
        2. sgrabik
          sgrabik 16 November 2020 18: 08
          +3
          I have not seen a more stupid and ridiculous point of view, but what, then, are you going to live on a separate island, or maybe you will bury yourself in a bunker, this is just the pose of an ostrich - with your head in the sand or my hut on the edge !!!
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 17 November 2020 09: 42
            -2
            Quote: sgrabik
            I have never seen a more dumb and ridiculous point of view,

            Yes, the people will go to the front (voluntarily / by conscription), and they will proudly sit in the kitchen, "fighting" against the regime.

            But the state car has not gone anywhere and so quickly they will write out a fair ten in Kolyma for desertion
      2. Flooding
        Flooding 16 November 2020 21: 36
        +4
        Quote: Tagil
        The capitalists will not let you sit on the sidelines, this is the law of the bourgeoisie.

        + + +
        I support. It looks like your message is not understood.
        I understand that the thought that in case of something you will have to defend not only the Motherland, but also the capital and billions of its elite residents, may not seem very pleasant.
        But it's true.
        1. tagil
          tagil 16 November 2020 21: 38
          +1
          Yes, something like that, although it is unpleasant.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 17 November 2020 09: 54
          +1
          Quote: Flood
          I understand, the idea that in case of something you will have to defend not only the Motherland, but also the capital and billions of its elite residents,

          capitals and billions do not need such protection: their owners are determined on stock exchanges and markets.

          Homeland, society and family need protection.

          It was the people who always defended, not slavery, serfdom or capitalism.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 17 November 2020 10: 05
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            Homeland, society and family need protection.

            First, society and family are included in the concept of Motherland.
            Second, I did not say that the Motherland does not need protection.
            Quote: Olgovich
            It was people who always defended, not slavery, serfdom or capitalism

            Then what was the Civil War about?
            Quote: Olgovich
            capitals and billions do not need such protection: their owners are determined on stock exchanges

            Then what were all the bourgeois revolutions, the struggle of the capitalist system with communist ideas about?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 17 November 2020 11: 38
              -3
              Quote: Flood
              First, society and family are included in the concept of Motherland.

              families outside the homeland, do not exist?
              "A picture in your primer" (c) is also the Motherland.
              Quote: Flood
              Then what was the Civil War about?

              not about the interventions that were discussed: in OV 1812, on the Kulikovo field and near Volokolamsk, they defended the Motherland, not the system.
              Quote: Flood
              When were all the bourgeois revolutions, the struggle of the capitalist system against communist ideas about?

              about the change of the social system from feudalism to capitalism. They have nothing to do with OV1812, PMV, WWII, etc.
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 17 November 2020 12: 18
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                families outside the homeland, do not exist?

                Outside the homeland, like the place where you were born and raised - yes, there are.
                Outside the Motherland, for which you are ready to give your life - no.
                There are many examples of this.
                Follow the destinies of numerous emigrants of any nationality.
                Spelling again: Motherland, people, society, family are inseparable concepts.
                It is impossible to love the Motherland, but not to love its people.
                How impossible it is for someone who does not love his relatives, his family to fall in love with the Motherland.
                And the wording that you used
                Quote: Olgovich
                Homeland, society and family need protection.

                is tantamount to a phrase about the need to protect families and children.
                Children are family, family is Motherland.
                PS
                Only in the end I understood your balancing act.
                Initially, it was about the Motherland.
                And you started to moralize and spread.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 17 November 2020 12: 28
                  0
                  Quote: Flood
                  Spelling again: Motherland, people, society, family are inseparable concepts.

                  once again: everyone defends the Motherland, society and family.

                  About homeland:
                  Where does the homeland begin?
                  From the picture in your letter
                  With good and faithful comrades
                  Living in a nearby yard
                  Or maybe it starts
                  From the song that our mother sang to us
                  Since in any tests
                  We do not take anyone away
                  Where does the homeland begin?
                  From the cherished bench at the gate
                  From the same birch tree in the field
                  Bending in the wind grows
                  Or maybe it starts
                  Since the spring funeral of the starling
                  And from this road country
                  Which can not see the end
                  Where does the homeland begin?
                  From the windows burning in the distance
                  Or maybe it starts
                  From the clatter of car wheels
                  And from the vow that in youth
                  You brought her in your heart
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding 17 November 2020 12: 35
                    +4
                    I sang this song in the days when televisions in most families were black and white.
                    Stop doing empty moralizing.
                2. Intruder
                  Intruder 18 November 2020 07: 07
                  +1
                  Children are family, family is Motherland.
                  , and if there, and here, children and family and relatives on both sides of the barricade and border posts, then what !? To be with those and those ...!? :)
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding 18 November 2020 08: 35
                    -1
                    Quote: Intruder
                    , and if there, and here, children and family and relatives on both sides of the barricade and border posts, then what !? To be with those and those ...!? :)

                    Tada has a tough choice to make.
                    And this choice will put everything in its place.
                    I do not believe that there are two Motherlands, three Motherlands.
                    It is either there or it is not.
              2. Flooding
                Flooding 17 November 2020 12: 23
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                not the interventions in question

                Curve. It was about the defense of capital by military force.
                Quote: Olgovich
                on the change of the social system from feudalism to capitalism

                Bravo. It turns out that there was feudalism in the Russian Empire until 1917.
                In fact, in my opinion, we can talk about the protection of capital by political force.
      3. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 22: 55
        -1
        hi
        Quote: Tagil
        Well, if you don't want to die for "our" capital, you can change your place of residence and die for the American, Polish, Chinese and so on. capital. The capitalists will not let you sit on the sidelines, this is the law of the bourgeoisie.

        Mayakovsky has a poem called "You", I would bring it here, but I was blocked for it once. Here is the link: https://www.culture.ru/poems/21300/vam Read informatively. What am I talking about, just the same sentiments we will have in less than a year, a more or less serious war. This is neither good nor bad, it just will.
    3. Old tanker
      Old tanker 16 November 2020 15: 43
      14
      First of all, you need to stand up for yourself from the couch. And then they will use you on this couch.
    4. sgrabik
      sgrabik 16 November 2020 18: 02
      -5
      We all live in one country, Russia, and we are all responsible for it, for its independence, it is impossible to divide the country into friends and foes, into ours and not ours, otherwise we will sink to complete collapse and disaster !!!
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 16 November 2020 21: 03
        +7
        Quote: sgrabik
        We all live in one country, Russia, and we are all responsible for it, for its independence,

        It's like fighting covid. While the population is suffering, sick, and maybe those with whose help health care was ruined, earn money on the population - for masks, gloves, fines. Don't you find this strange? It seems like one country, but someone can, and who mows the loot on them
      2. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 22: 45
        +2
        Quote: sgrabik
        We all live in one country, Russia, and we are all responsible for it, for its independence, it is impossible to divide the country into friends and foes, into ours and not ours, otherwise we will sink to complete collapse and disaster !!!

        Take the "class approach", it will deprive you of a lot of illusions.
    5. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 23: 05
      +1
      Hello Vladimir hi
      Quote: Svarog
      I think in this case, the answer should be the same .. Why should I or my loved ones die for their super-profits or capital?

      But it will be morally difficult to act from the “Leninist” position. Is the other justified?
  • Varyag71
    Varyag71 16 November 2020 15: 26
    +8
    Judging by your rhetoric, you've already scored a place in the policemen.
    1. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 15: 34
      -14 qualifying.
      Can I give up my seat, or are you afraid not to have time to follow me in line?
      1. Varyag71
        Varyag71 17 November 2020 07: 21
        +4
        I was born in the USSR, so I was brought up correctly. Don't worry, it's your turn too. At the wall.
        1. tagil
          tagil 17 November 2020 08: 40
          -3
          Quote: Varyag71
          I was born in the USSR, so I was brought up correctly. Don't worry, it's your turn too. At the wall.
          Pu and why did you decide that I was not brought up correctly and insulted me by writing to the police?
    2. VORON538
      VORON538 16 November 2020 15: 42
      -1
      He naively thinks that they will pass by his house and finally bring him the long-awaited freedom.
      So sat the Khataskrains, who were waiting for the Germans, who promised to rid the population of the communist power! hi
      1. Kart
        Kart 16 November 2020 16: 42
        -18 qualifying.
        They won't, really.
        They will come in and take out everything, and they will kill the family - this is the damned capitalist. Why pity him in the name of the people's happiness?
  • lis-ik
    lis-ik 16 November 2020 15: 27
    -1
    Quote: Tagil
    Well, if you and the author get off the couch in the front rows of those going to the front and sit in the trenches, then Russia will win all.

    Maybe it's better not to go to the front? Inside the country, there are plenty of powerful scoundrels.
    1. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 15: 32
      +1
      And where are they missing? Have they ever been translated, have anyone ever won them? Maybe you need to appreciate what you have now? Or is everything really bad for you?
      1. lis-ik
        lis-ik 16 November 2020 15: 36
        15
        For me personally, everything is not bad yet, but there is such a thing as "it is insulting for the State", because in reality Russia is no longer considered anything.
        1. tagil
          tagil 16 November 2020 15: 39
          -5
          Well, why so, they just listen to us, if only because we are fulfilling the word we said, and everyone knows that. And when we say that we will fight, these words will also be taken seriously.
        2. Xnumx vis
          Xnumx vis 16 November 2020 16: 26
          +1
          Quote: lis-ik
          For me personally, everything is not bad yet, but there is such a thing as "it is insulting for the State", because in reality Russia is no longer considered anything.

          But then Russia finish off the Georgians at 08.08 .08. Establish your authority there. And there would be no slaughter in Ukraine, Armenia, Belarus. Why did they stop tanks near Tbilisi? I don't understand .. You didn't have enough strength, there was no money, were you afraid of the sanctions? So a chain of tragedies stretched. PS-Crimea-Sevastopol, Turks -svido ukram, do not take. Not Armenia, Karabakh. Russia ! Russian people live!
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 16: 50
            +3
            Quote: 30 vis
            But then Russia finish off the Georgians at 08.08 .08 ...

            This is not where you start.
            1. Xnumx vis
              Xnumx vis 16 November 2020 16: 53
              -6
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Quote: 30 vis
              But then Russia finish off the Georgians at 08.08 .08 ...

              This is not where you start.

              The rope curled from there. How not to twist it! Here cause -not finished off. Here Investigation -Ukra and all the rest of the shit.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 16: 58
                +4
                Quote: 30 vis
                The rope curled from there. How not to twist it! That's the reason - they didn't finish it off. Here is the consequence -Ukra and all the rest of the shit.

                "The rope curled" even under Gorbachev, and if you dig deeper, then much earlier. Or do you disagree with the fact that all these are the consequences of the collapse of the USSR?
                1. Xnumx vis
                  Xnumx vis 16 November 2020 17: 04
                  +1
                  Of course I agree. But you, I think, agree that it would have been possible to prevent these "Maidans" from giving way, had Russia then show more courage and determination! One devil is sitting under sanctions!
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 17: 14
                    12
                    Quote: 30 vis
                    But you, I think, agree that it would have been possible to prevent these "Maidans" from giving way, had Russia then show more courage and determination! One devil is sitting under sanctions!

                    The Russian people are ready to show both courage and decisiveness, but the authorities have completely different concerns, primarily related to the preservation of their capital in foreign accounts. This is what infuriates.
                  2. SovAr238A
                    SovAr238A 16 November 2020 18: 06
                    0
                    Quote: aleksejkabanets
                    Quote: 30 vis
                    But you, I think, agree that it would have been possible to prevent these "Maidans" from giving way, had Russia then show more courage and determination! One devil is sitting under sanctions!

                    The Russian people are ready to show both courage and decisiveness, but the authorities have completely different concerns, primarily related to the preservation of their capital in foreign accounts. This is what infuriates.


                    Those. Do you know many who are ready to just quit their job, leave their family, children and go to fight in Donbass?

                    Considering that he is a simple 35-40 year old man. Served as expected. Perhaps one of the Chechens passed.
                    Never worked in security, security, etc.

                    Do you think that he will break loose and go to fight in the Donbass ????

                    Not...
                    I have acquaintances who have linked their lives with the war.
                    Since the beginning of the 90s.
                    Sumgait and Sukhum - this is how my acquaintance with them began.

                    After the army and in the special forces of the GUINN and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, they went to work so that they could go on "business trips", I will not talk about Wagner, I will say that I do not know anything about this composer. But I'm sure that 5 of my acquaintances are now somewhere.

                    Please stop speaking for everyone.
                    Because this is your phrase: The Russian people are ready to show both courage and determination - should be in the context of "I think, I hope" ...
                  3. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 18: 17
                    +2
                    Quote: SovAr238A
                    Because this is your phrase: The Russian people are ready to show both courage and determination - should be in the context of "I think, I hope" ...

                    The Russian (in the broadest sense of the word) people have shown courage and decisiveness more than once or twice, they will have to show more than once. Only this has nothing to do with the oligarchic showdown in Donbas. I'm not talking about the beginning of the conflict, many were ready to go then, and many did. How can the Russian people be associated with mercenaries from any PMC, what are they fighting for their Motherland?
                  4. SovAr238A
                    SovAr238A 16 November 2020 19: 25
                    +1
                    Quote: aleksejkabanets
                    Quote: SovAr238A
                    Because this is your phrase: The Russian people are ready to show both courage and determination - should be in the context of "I think, I hope" ...

                    The Russian (in the broadest sense of the word) people have shown courage and decisiveness more than once or twice, they will have to show more than once. Only this has nothing to do with the oligarchic showdown in Donbas. I'm not talking about the beginning of the conflict, many were ready to go then, and many did. How can the Russian people be associated with mercenaries from any PMC, what are they fighting for their Motherland?


                    100 years ago.
                    When the Russians were Russians.
                    When no propaganda of the Western way of life has ever taken anyone ...

                    In 1917, “there were about one and a half million deserters from the front. The enemy already had about 2 million soldiers in captivity ...

                    Who were they?
                    Russians or not?

                    So I repeat ...
                    Stop talking for everyone

                    History will curse you and you will spin in a coffin for your lies and criminal arrogance!
                    Well, for stupidity, of course!
                  5. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 20: 07
                    0
                    Quote: SovAr238A
                    History will curse you and you will spin in a coffin for your lies and criminal arrogance!
                    Well, for stupidity, of course!

                    Maybe you remember that in 1941-45, it was the Soviet people who broke the back of fascism. Although I do not understand the essence of our dispute. If you are talking about today, then yes, there will be many Vlasovs and few Matrosovs. Can we do it again? If there is a Soviet people, then yes, if like today, then no. The reasons, I think, are clear.
                  6. SovAr238A
                    SovAr238A 16 November 2020 20: 34
                    +2
                    Quote: aleksejkabanets
                    Quote: SovAr238A
                    History will curse you and you will spin in a coffin for your lies and criminal arrogance!
                    Well, for stupidity, of course!

                    Maybe you remember that in 1941-45, it was the Soviet people who broke the back of fascism. Although I do not understand the essence of our dispute. If you are talking about today, then yes, there will be many Vlasovs and few Matrosovs. Can we do it again? If there is a Soviet people, then yes, if like today, then no. The reasons, I think, are clear.


                    Will not...
                    I'll tell you right away. that I am 50 years old, my great father died on May 2, 1945 in Austria in Oberwart. on the last day of the war ...

                    But it won't.
                    The new generation is already different.

                    And then. the generation that we are, of course, we will analyze the AK in 25 seconds from the second third time, because the handles are remembered. but nothing more, the belly is already sticking out. and the tail falls off ...

                    And those. who are now half 20-30 - will not go


                    : ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( (((
                  7. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 20: 38
                    -1
                    Quote: SovAr238A
                    But it won't.
                    The new generation is already different.

                    Being determines consciousness.
                  8. SovAr238A
                    SovAr238A 16 November 2020 20: 44
                    0
                    Quote: aleksejkabanets

                    Being determines consciousness.


                    When was the last time you visited a modern university?
                  9. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 20: 52
                    0
                    Quote: SovAr238A
                    When was the last time you visited a modern university?

                    Not so long ago I was in a technical school where I started to study. I talked with the director, I know her from my studies. The impressions are painful. Why did you ask?
                  10. SovAr238A
                    SovAr238A 16 November 2020 23: 47
                    +1
                    Quote: aleksejkabanets
                    Quote: SovAr238A
                    When was the last time you visited a modern university?

                    Not so long ago I was in a technical school where I started to study. I talked with the director, I know her from my studies. The impressions are painful. Why did you ask?


                    Out of 2500 applicants of SamSTU, whom I saw this year, no more than 30 people themselves will go to the military registration and enlistment office ...

                    That's all...
                  11. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 23: 53
                    +2
                    Quote: SovAr238A
                    Out of 2500 applicants of SamSTU, whom I saw this year, no more than 30 people themselves will go to the military registration and enlistment office ...

                    And they will most likely go for a reason, but for some reason. Our government leaders have taken RI as a role model, and will get exactly the same thing. There would be a welfare state, at least like the late USSR, the alignment would be completely different.
      2. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 23: 33
        -1
        In 1917, “there were about one and a half million deserters from the front.

        And how many agitators and provocateurs were there in 1917 at the fronts?
        And how many there were in 1944-45. in the Soviet Army?
        They could ..., after all, earlier, but after the breakdown of the previous system.
        The world order is now extremely fragile. Cataclysms and their results are possible. No matter how we treat them.
      3. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 16 November 2020 23: 54
        -1
        Quote: DED_peer_DED
        In 1917, “there were about one and a half million deserters from the front.

        And how many agitators and provocateurs were there in 1917 at the fronts?
        And how many there were in 1944-45. in the Soviet Army?
        They could ..., after all, earlier, but after the breakdown of the previous system.
        The world order is now extremely fragile. Cataclysms and their results are possible. No matter how we treat them.

        Suddenly...
        You are really so out of touch with reality. don't you understand the difference between 1941 and 2020?

        Where do you come from, not of this world?
        What cocoon do you live in?
        How old are you?
        Do you walk the streets?
        Do you see youth culture?
        Everyone is in contact there. Instagrammers?
        Where do tens of thousands of young animals come from in Khabarovsk. Minsk and many other places ...

        You understand. at least something in the life of those. who is now from 20 dl 35 ???


        Are you aliens or what?
      4. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 23: 59
        0

        I can't have more questions than you have. I can inadvertently choke. Sorry, for the details ...
      5. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 17 November 2020 00: 09
        -5
        Quote: DED_peer_DED

        I can't have more questions than you have. I can inadvertently choke. Sorry, for the details ...

        Details are of course not needed.
        Just from the experience of communicating with women of easy virtue, I will probably advise ...
        probably not necessary to do so deeply.
        Take care of yourself.
        You should also write and write.
        You were hired for a reason.

        although what am I talking about.
        just speculating ...
      6. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 17 November 2020 00: 11
        +1
        Quote: SovAr238A
        just speculating ...

        Do not strain.
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 23: 18
    0
    but the authorities have completely different concerns, primarily related to the preservation of their capital

    The authorities are now, almost everywhere, the same. Pockets, that's just, they still have different pants, are located. But this is for now.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 16 November 2020 17: 43
    +5
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    "The rope curled" even under Gorbachev, and if you dig deeper, then much earlier.

    How and where did Gorbachev appear, an unknown “pawn” “and suddenly became a queen. Nothing just happens.
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 17: 59
      0
      hi
      Quote: tihonmarine
      How and where did Gorbachev appear, an unknown “pawn” “and suddenly became a queen. Nothing just happens.

      I think that all these processes began with Khrushchev.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 16 November 2020 18: 18
      10
      Quote: aleksejkabanets
      I think that all these processes began with Khrushchev.
      Alexander YAKOVLEV from 1958 to 1959 trained at Columbia University (USA) [1]. During the internship, Yakovlev was in the same group with the KGB officer Oleg Kalugin. Yakovlev's scientific advisor in the United States was the famous David Truman. It was under Khrushchev that the work superintendent of perestroika Yakovlev passed his first educational program on the destruction of the USSR under the leadership of anti-communist David Truman.
      Famous expressions of Yakovlev:
      - it is necessary to beat Lenin against Stalin, and then Plekhanov against Lenin;
      - we broke the back of Soviet power.
    3. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 18: 33
      0
      Quote: tihonmarine
      Alexander YAKOVLEV from 1958 to 1959 trained ...

      I think that it all started with the abolition of the Stalinist constitution and, accordingly, the removal of the clauses on the dictatorship of the proletariat and much else there. As a result, we got a party bureaucracy independent of the people, which brought us to where we are now.
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 23: 35
    0
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    I think that all these processes began with Khrushchev.

    Or even from Trotsky.
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 23: 38
    -1
    Quote: DED_peer_DED
    Or even from Trotsky.

    Trotsky, then where?
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 23: 40
    -3
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    Trotsky, then where?

    Traitor.
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 23: 46
    -1
    Quote: DED_peer_DED
    Traitor.

    So it is so, only it was a long time ago. And yet we now have a person who, together with the people, the Polovtsy and the Pechenegs won.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 16 November 2020 21: 05
    -1
    Quote: 30 vis
    Here is the reason

    This is a Swiss accountant at Putin's reception. And after his visit - stop
  • Alexander Vorontsov
    Alexander Vorontsov 21 November 2020 14: 48
    -2
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    This is not where you start.

    I cannot answer for the author of the statement, but it depends on what is meant by the word "finished off".
    To paraphrase - having won a military victory, did the Russian Federation use it to the maximum?

    Let's try to imagine what would be the reaction of the United States if some small country gouged their peacekeepers?
    What would be the consequences for this country? In 10 years after that, there would be talk about whether to create a Russian base in this country?

    Remind me what happened to Saddam Hussein? He was hanged. What happened to Gaddafi? He was killed.
    And what happened to Saakashvili? He has been running all over the world all this time. He performed both in the USA and in Ukraine!

    It would not be bad that all the puppets, before selling their country by implementing the next scenario, understand that they can finish the same way as their predecessor.
  • bk316
    bk316 16 November 2020 16: 56
    -2
    After all, in reality, Russia is no longer put in anything.

    You are probably a great diplomat. I see something else: that in the 90s they did not put it, but now they do it.
    And if I'm wrong, then why is Assad still alive, why is South Ossetia not under Georgia, why the DPR didn’t roll out NATO tanks?
    So what about "insulting for the power" is about 91 and 93 ....
    But in 91 the inheritance of the Union was much more, why then were they not counted?
    1. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 16 November 2020 19: 57
      +2
      Quote: bk316
      After all, in reality, Russia is no longer put in anything.

      You are probably a great diplomat. I see something else: that in the 90s they did not put it, but now they do it.
      And if I'm wrong, then why is Assad still alive, why is South Ossetia not under Georgia, why the DPR didn’t roll out NATO tanks?
      So what about "insulting for the power" is about 91 and 93 ....
      But in 91 the inheritance of the Union was much more, why then were they not counted?


      Your examples are such crap in fact ... gudgeons in front of pikes ...
      1. bk316
        bk316 17 November 2020 16: 05
        0
        this is such crap really ... gudgeons in front of pikes ...

        still not a diplomat ... laughing
        I explain.
        All examples are not pikes and gudgeons, these are REGIONAL issues.
        That is, the world obviously recognizes that the Russian Federation is the leading regional power in its region.

        And the fact that the Russian Federation is not a leading world power is obvious.
        Only one should not be offended by this (there are actually 1-2 such powers now), but be glad that they have risen to this level, because 20 years ago, not only did they not ask about Syria, but calmly discussed how to cut Russia apart. Not in the plans but directly in the order. Give Chechnya, give Tatarstan!
    2. uhu189
      uhu189 16 November 2020 21: 17
      0
      Perhaps because Assad, South Ossetia and the DPR have not yet played their part in this performance. They are still needed, so they still exist.
  • sgrabik
    sgrabik 16 November 2020 18: 15
    -3
    That's right, enough of all revolutions and troubles, we must remember about the interests of the Motherland, and not just about our personal pockets, this applies to everyone without exception, and to officials, and to oligarchs, and to ordinary Russian citizens !!!
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 21: 22
      +4
      Quote: sgrabik
      That's right, enough of all revolutions and troubles, we must remember about the interests of the Motherland, and not just about our personal pockets, this applies to everyone without exception, and to officials, and to oligarchs, and to ordinary Russian citizens !!!

      Explain to me, sick one, what are my common interests with the oligarchs? I know my homeland, but where is Abramovich's homeland? And Potanin's? And where is the homeland of our senior government officials, if their children and families live abroad? Do they study enemies from the inside? Whose Homeland interests should I remember? Mine or theirs? And yet, finally find out the difference between Maidan and revolution.
  • Megatron
    Megatron 16 November 2020 16: 37
    +8
    And you yourself, I suppose, current from the front?
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 16: 47
    13
    Quote: Tagil
    Well, if you and the author get off the couch in the front rows of those going to the front and sit in the trenches, then Russia will win all.

    How did you get the uryakalka already, in fact, you can say something about the commentary? In your opinion, is Russia ready for war? There is no money in the budget, they are no longer the same as the army, they are going to cut civil servants, and you are broadcasting about the war. How much does the war cost? Have you thought about this?
    1. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 17: 07
      -5
      And you go somewhere that I call to fight?
      Russia is not ready for war. V.V. Putin has been avoiding confrontation for 20 years. When the Kremlin is forced into war - Georgia (2008), Ukraine (2014), Syria (2015), it tries to “settle”, “stabilize” the situation. There is no victory, just as there is no obvious defeat.
      This infuriates me, if Russia fought for every "offense" of the author, then we would no longer exist.
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 17: 51
        13
        Quote: Tagil
        This infuriates me, if Russia fought for every "offense" of the author, then we would no longer exist.

        It infuriates me that Russia has ineptly squandered all the Soviet backlog and slipped into the category of third-rate powers. As you know, the weak are beaten.
        1. tagil
          tagil 16 November 2020 17: 54
          -9
          Break not build. To destroy the "Khrushchev" is enough 10 kg. spent (if you know where to lay), but it takes time to build it. So what do you want? And I disagree with you. Russia is not a third-rate power, and even in the worst years it was not.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 18: 04
            +6
            Quote: Tagil
            Russia is not a third-rate power, and even in the worst years it was not.

            Today it has become. Thanks to the "great" guides. These are her worst years.
            1. tagil
              tagil 16 November 2020 18: 06
              -8
              Why, then, on our streets negros do not go from the US Marine Corps? Probably scary? You're dramatizing.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 18: 10
                +5
                Quote: Tagil
                Why, then, on our streets negros do not go from the US Marine Corps? Probably scary? You're dramatizing.

                If the degradation of the economy and education continues at such a pace, then we will see the Turks here. It will only be a matter of time.
                1. tagil
                  tagil 16 November 2020 18: 13
                  -4
                  I agree with degradation. But in my opinion this applies to the whole world. How to fix this for us, I do not know. My conclusions are just my conclusions. I am not competent in this.
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 18: 26
                    +5
                    Quote: Tagil
                    I agree with degradation. But in my opinion this applies to the whole world.

                    China is developing. And in economics, and in education and in medicine. We have already overtaken us in terms of the average salary.
                    Quote: Tagil
                    How to fix this for us, I do not know.

                    Maybe it's worth looking back?
                  2. tagil
                    tagil 16 November 2020 18: 36
                    -7
                    China is developing. And in economics, and in education and in medicine. We have already overtaken us in terms of the average salary.
                    Yes, only he had to retreat a little from communism. It's easier for China, there was no hunchback and alcoholic in China.
                    Maybe it's worth looking back?
                    I think so too, but time is lost, personnel are lost, just like the younger generation. We need something new, a new idea.
                  3. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 19: 09
                    15
                    Quote: Tagil
                    I think so too, but time is lost, personnel are lost, just like the younger generation. We need something new, a new idea.


                    There is no other adequate idea other than social justicebut how does it terrify those in power.
                  4. tagil
                    tagil 16 November 2020 19: 14
                    -9
                    There is no other adequate idea other than social justice
                    I completely agree, but this justice was not even at the beginning of the USSR. The upper echelons fought for power, first with the Trotskyists and Socialist-Revolutionaries, then the communists among themselves. Maybe in the future something will work out, but you can't change people. Power is too "sweet" word.
                2. aleksejkabanets
                  aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 19: 14
                  +3
                  Quote: Tagil
                  We need something new, a new idea.

                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  There is no other adequate idea other than social justice, but how does it terrify those in power.

                  You probably can't answer better.
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 19: 07
            +4
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            degradation of the economy and education


            Where is THIS not? Hegemon so generally whistled ahead with a margin.
        2. cmax
          cmax 16 November 2020 19: 22
          +7
          Quote: Tagil
          Why, then, on our streets negros do not go from the US Marine Corps? Probably scary? You're dramatizing.

          I was in Vilnius. Military negroes from the infantry are already walking. Quite oversized.
          1. tagil
            tagil 16 November 2020 19: 27
            0
            Naash the kind German host gave us our wonderful old famillias. They are no strangers.
        3. DED_peer_DED
          DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 23: 39
          -1
          Quote: Tagil
          Why, then, on our streets negros do not go from the US Marine Corps?

          It's not fashionable now. Now they take it for "soft" and twist it as they want.
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 16 November 2020 21: 08
      +2
      Quote: Tagil
      To destroy the "Khrushchev" is enough 10 kg. spent (if you know where to lay), but it takes time to build it.

      Stalin made a bomb after the Patriotic War, he could not even build an airplane after 20 years.
  • uhu189
    uhu189 16 November 2020 21: 24
    +2
    The art of politics is precisely to defend their interests without resorting to wars. I think you will agree that now there is an obvious tendency for us to lose our positions. Certainly not in everything and everywhere, but on average. Ambitious energy and economic projects are dying out, influence is being lost, we are beginning to lag behind even where we used to be leaders (I'm talking about space exploration, if anything). And "jerks" are given harder and harder. It's not even about being unprepared for war, but about being unprepared for the future.
    1. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 21: 35
      0
      I think you will agree that now there is an obvious tendency for us to lose our positions.
      Tell me, were our positions in the 90s worse or better than now?
      Ambitious energy and economic projects are dying out, influence is being lost, we are starting to lag behind even where we used to be leaders (I'm talking about astronautics, if anything)
      We fly and flew into space, the Americans flew to the ISS themselves just now (understand, before the USSR spoke only of a fait accompli, "Gagarin in space", but they were silent about failures), as well as about projects. Previously, you would have learned about Chkalov's flight to America only when it ended, but if it crashed? Projects started but not finished. Let's see what happens. I'm not a pessimist after all, I believe that we will succeed.
      1. uhu189
        uhu189 16 November 2020 21: 49
        +1
        In the 90s, we were not perceived by the West as opponents. And now we are exactly the enemies. The difference seems to me in this.

        God grant that if everything works out. I really want you to be right.
        1. tagil
          tagil 16 November 2020 21: 53
          -2
          In the 90s, we were not perceived by the West as opponents. And now we are exactly the enemies. The difference seems to me in this.
          You yourself have answered most of the questions. Before the Second World War, we were also enemies for Europe, but weak, after, enemies but strong. Nothing changed.
      2. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 16 November 2020 23: 48
        -1
        Tell me, were our positions in the 90s worse or better than now?

        For some reason, I immediately remember:
        Compared to .... year

        1. tagil
          tagil 16 November 2020 23: 50
          -1
          That's right, everything is relative. Only everyone does not remember this anymore.
  • nnm
    nnm 16 November 2020 17: 13
    -3
    The Kremlin hides and runs from any conflict, as it feels its weakness in the absence of unity of power, the leading party and the people.

    For some reason, too, when reading such words, I desperately want to send the author, his relatives, friends to knead the November dirt into the trenches, or wait out the winter cold from the dugouts!
    Yes, these lovers of great upheavals for the country have already got it with or without! It feels like they are sleeping with a saber under their combat sofa!
    Give Russia at least a couple of decades of peace to concentrate forces and develop!
    1. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 17: 20
      -9
      The worst thing in these words is that people like me, wearing shoulder straps, must fight, but the author is unlikely to end up in the trenches, but you can see it offensive to him from the couch for Russia.
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 18: 05
        +3
        Quote: Tagil
        The worst thing in these words is that people like me, wearing shoulder straps, must fight, but the author is unlikely to end up in the trenches, but you can see it offensive to him from the couch for Russia.

        Don't like wearing shoulder straps?
        1. tagil
          tagil 16 November 2020 18: 09
          -6
          No, I do not like that all sorts of Samsonovs talk with their empty tongue, while not knowing anything about the war.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 18: 22
            +8
            Quote: Tagil
            No, I do not like...

            Then why are you groaning, why should you fight?
            Quote: Tagil
            The Samsonovs talk with their empty tongue, while not knowing anything about the war.

            Samsonov, after all, does not call for war, but only states the fact that "not everything is safe in the Kingdom of Denmark."
            1. tagil
              tagil 16 November 2020 18: 31
              -1
              Then why are you groaning, why should you fight?
              War is my profession, and as a military man I cannot refuse to fight, in the end I was taught this.
              Samsonov, after all, does not call for war, but only states the fact that "not everything is safe in the Kingdom of Denmark."
              Samsonov sees everything only from his bell tower, and his presentation is distorted, but for some reason all the authors claim infallibility.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 18: 49
                +7
                Quote: Tagil
                War is my profession, and as a military man I cannot refuse to fight, in the end I was taught this.

                God grant that you do not have to fight. I am a civilian, and always have been. Even as a warrant officer, I was only a technician, with three soldiers in command.
                Quote: Tagil
                Samsonov sees everything only from his bell tower, and his presentation is distorted, but for some reason all the authors claim infallibility.

                After all, it practically does not touch upon purely military problems. From a political point of view, not all of his conclusions, in my opinion, are correct. But the fact that Russia is losing ground is a fact. The blood of war is money. Until we put things in order in the economy, we will continue to give up our positions.
                1. tagil
                  tagil 16 November 2020 18: 53
                  -8
                  Until we put things in order in the economy, we will continue to give up our positions.
                  You can see for yourself that we are not given this, but I still hope that we will cope. We have always coped and we will manage now. Life is a vest, a stripe is white, a stripe is black. So everything will be fine.
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 18: 58
                    +8
                    Quote: Tagil
                    You can see for yourself that we are not given this, but I still hope that we will cope. We have always coped and we will manage now. Life is a vest, a stripe is white, a stripe is black. So everything will be fine.

                    I'm afraid that I will have to cope as in 1917.
                  2. tagil
                    tagil 16 November 2020 19: 00
                    -9
                    It would be better without it. For the 17th year, conditions are needed, but now they are not. And to what system to change?
                  3. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 19: 06
                    +6
                    Quote: Tagil
                    It would be better without it.

                    Better is better, just got this mess already. I see no way out. And if nothing is changed, then everything only gets worse.
                  4. tagil
                    tagil 16 November 2020 19: 24
                    -1
                    Better is better, just got this mess already. I see no way out. And if nothing is changed, then everything only gets worse.
                    In the 17th year, changing the system, we lost territories (Poland, Finland, Western Belarus, Ukraine, the Baltic states, maybe I forgot something). In 1990 we lost even more and are in a worse position than in 17th. Further we will lose even more. So change, but only very carefully, and this is almost unrealistic. "Partners" will not give.
                  5. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 19: 56
                    +8
                    Quote: Tagil
                    In the 17th year, changing the system, we lost territories (Poland, Finland, Western Belarus, Ukraine, the Baltic states, maybe I forgot something)

                    Strictly speaking, they have lost even during the temporary, but not the essence. The Bolsheviks returned almost everything, although this is not the point.
                    Quote: Tagil
                    So change, but only very carefully,

                    Would love to.
                    Quote: Tagil
                    "Partners" will not give.

                    "Partners" in the second place, first of all, will not be given by "privatizers".
                  6. tagil
                    tagil 16 November 2020 20: 23
                    +1
                    No "partners". To destroy what is left, they will not miss this opportunity. Better to start a civil war first (reduce the population), and then pick up what is left.
                  7. Dante Alighieri
                    Dante Alighieri 17 November 2020 09: 23
                    +5
                    it is better to start a civil war first (reduce the population), and then pick up what is left.

                    What for? Covid will handle it for you. And all health care reforms, signed with one hand, only contribute to this. Based on this, personally, I have only one question: for whom does the bunker grandfather work?
                  8. tagil
                    tagil 17 November 2020 09: 30
                    -1
                    How I work for whom, for the Martians is it not visible!
                  9. Dante Alighieri
                    Dante Alighieri 17 November 2020 09: 53
                    +5
                    Sergey, "bunker grandfather" is not about you. You didn’t put your signature on the health care reform, but he did. So I have no questions for you. Let the addressee answer, although given the likelihood of it, my question will most likely remain rhetorical.
          2. Alt 22
            Alt 22 16 November 2020 21: 16
            +1
            And now, without changing anything, Russia is losing the Russian people, in 1989 there were 119 million Russians in Russia, in 2010 there were only 111 left, and the losses abroad are generally catastrophic, so many Russians did not lose people even in the war.
          3. tagil
            tagil 16 November 2020 21: 25
            -1
            Well, how to change and what to change and to whom to change. I am in favor, but I would like to hear something adequate.
          4. Alt 22
            Alt 22 17 November 2020 08: 34
            +3
            Under the USSR, there was a regime in which people were not afraid to give birth and believed in the future. And today - the country has the highest level of social inequality, 10% of citizens control 90% of the national wealth of the Russian Federation.
            Pay attention to the graph above - this is the total property of Forbes billionaires in% of national income for different countries.
          5. tagil
            tagil 17 November 2020 08: 45
            -1
            Only you have forgotten where the current system came from, and who were in the union, these 10% of citizens who have everything. It's a pity, but the comrades who considered themselves communists and Komsomol members have traded our future for their korman.
    2. Dante Alighieri
      Dante Alighieri 17 November 2020 09: 21
      +4
      So change, but only very carefully, and this is almost unrealistic. "Partners" will not give.

      Based on your words, it is better not to do anything at all, it still will not work. What do I suppose in the Kremlin exactly the same opinion, tk. the results of their "inaction" are quite obvious.
    3. tagil
      tagil 17 November 2020 09: 27
      -1
      What do I suppose in the Kremlin exactly the same opinion, tk. the results of their "inaction" are quite obvious.
      Inaction of what? What is not being done in our country? The army is not being raised, the economy is not being moved, hospitals and stadiums are not being built? Maybe first, to start doing something, you need to achieve that the "partners" are afraid to even think to interfere with us?
    4. Dante Alighieri
      Dante Alighieri 17 November 2020 10: 13
      +4
      Inaction of what? What is not being done in our country? The army is not being raised, the economy is not being moved, hospitals and stadiums are not being built?

      The army is not raised, the army is supported. This is how they say in Odessa: "Two big differences." Although I am a purely civilian person, by virtue of my competence I am an "interested person", and therefore I know what I am talking about. I've only been reading VO for more than 10 years and this is not my only source of information.

      The economy is not being moved - it is being pushed in. In my area, the massive collapse of production facilities did not even take place in the distant and already semi-mythical 90s, but in 2008. And the revival of the lost industries did not follow (except for the opening of shopping centers on the site).

      Hospitals are not being built. Or they build one to close the heels of others. Optimization-s. So, for example, it was with the regional perinotal center: they opened one hospital, optimized the bed of maternity hospitals in the districts. And do not care that a woman on the 9th month on our ideal roads will still need to somehow shake up to this very center, while before she had her own hospital nearby, albeit an old, poor one, but her own and help there could "timely". I already keep silent that in the districts with new buildings I promise to build a polyclinic for the second five-year plan, and the school was hardly introduced until this year.

      Stadiums are being built locally in the most convenient directions, where it is not profitable, they are not being built. In our region, it is apparently not profitable. Well, the market has decided, nothing can be done about it. And who needs those stadiums now.

      I watch life not from the TV screen and not from the window of my own car, so I have very specific examples from the harsh reality of such victorious reports. If you are in our area I can even arrange an excursion. We have here a whole avenue of achievements in the national economy, although it is now abandoned and dilapidated. The impression is made by something else. At least no one has left indifferently yet.

      Maybe first, to start doing something, you need to achieve that the "partners" are afraid to even think to interfere with us?

      You know, just no kidding, I would love to look at the script for solving this issue for your authorship. Surely there would be a lot to discuss, but isn't truth born in a dispute?
  • New Year day
    New Year day 16 November 2020 21: 10
    0
    Quote: Tagil
    his presentation is distorted

    Stunned! Maybe you sat too long in the last century with your ideas?
    1. tagil
      tagil 16 November 2020 21: 18
      0
      Listen Sylvester, I understand that shit is much easier than saying something smart. If you do not like the country in which you live, try to change it, just not at meetings and chats.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 16 November 2020 22: 03
        +1
        Quote: Tagil
        that shit is much easier than saying something smart.

        In fact, there are objections? - No.
        Bubbles blow up against the written by the author is your everything!
        Quote: Tagil
        If you do not like the country in which you live, try to change it, just not at meetings and chats.

        And this is already a call to overthrow the government. I hate thieves and blockheads in power. Breakthroughs and successes over the past 20 years, please, indicate?
      2. tagil
        tagil 16 November 2020 22: 16
        -1
        And this is already a call to overthrow the government. I hate thieves and blockheads in power. Breakthroughs and successes over the past 20 years, please, indicate?
        Honestly, you already got it. The power will somehow survive my impulses, like your statements against it, it has been captured by Putin, and he is a despot and a usurper, only the camp does not threaten you for some reason, near Navalny is the very place. You will find outbursts of power for 20 years, the Internet is big. Well, go catch the thieves, the police will appreciate your impulse. But to catch is not to use your tongue, yes.
      3. New Year day
        New Year day 16 November 2020 22: 37
        +3
        Quote: Tagil
        Honestly, you already got it.

        You got it along with the authorities. Only the power in Russia has been changing forward for centuries, which I look forward to
      4. tagil
        tagil 16 November 2020 22: 42
        +1
        You are evil Sylvester. Only after the change of power is another half of the country carried forward.
  • aglet
    aglet 17 November 2020 08: 05
    +1
    "The worst thing in these words is that people like me, wearing shoulder straps, should fight, but the author is unlikely to end up in the trenches, but you can see it offensive to him from the couch for Russia."
    As I understand it, you are a professional military man, since you are wearing shoulder straps? Your homeland has been feeding you, dressing, treating and giving you a pension at 40 and housing for demobilization for so many years, and that is why it requires only one thing from you - to fight for it. This is your duty. Eating another can of stew, remember - right now they have forged a bullet for you , somewhere in the states, and it is your duty to know this and wait for this bullet. but I won't end up in the trenches, old already, if only in the partisans
    1. tagil
      tagil 17 November 2020 08: 33
      +1
      All that you said I know and knew when dressing a uniform.
      1. aglet
        aglet 17 November 2020 17: 09
        +2
        "Everything that you said I know and knew when wearing a uniform"
        Well then, don't make yourself a hero. freebies need to be worked out, including in the trenches
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 16 November 2020 18: 21
    +1
    Quote: nnm
    Give Russia at least a couple of decades of peace to concentrate forces and develop!

    What did Alexander III and Stolypin talk about?
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 19: 11
    -1
    Quote: nnm
    Reading such words, I desperately want to send the author, his family and friends to knead the November dirt into the trenches, or wait out the winter cold from the dugouts!

    I support this approach to solving the issue!

    The worst thing in these words is that people like me, wearing shoulder straps, must fight, but the author is unlikely to end up in the trenches, but you can see it offensive to him from the couch for Russia.

    The author is above that! He "rules the fronts" (p.)
    1. Dante Alighieri
      Dante Alighieri 17 November 2020 09: 33
      +2
      Namesake, no offense, but why Turkey can afford to openly harness for Azrebaidzhan, while we cannot for Dondbass, confining ourselves to the vague "we are not responsible for the vacationers"? That our military business is worse or our men are made of less strong material than the "hot southern guys". No, even it seems to be the opposite, they were always beaten. But we cannot, and therefore we are weaker and we recognize this weakness. It is not only a matter of war here, but also politics.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 17 November 2020 10: 43
        0
        Quote: Dante
        We cannot stand for Donbass, confining ourselves to the vague "we are not responsible for the vacationers"?


        I can not answer this question. And yes, in general, I agree with you. However, we do not see the whole picture either. Politics.
      2. aglet
        aglet 17 November 2020 17: 15
        +3
        "But we cannot, and therefore we are weaker and we recognize this weakness"
        we may not be weaker, but our authorities cannot use force against partners. those who have nothing are not afraid of losing something, but those who have money and power will go for anything in order not to lose it. but it is not we who decide, but they, and they do everything that would be good for them, not for us
  • Evgeny Seleznev
    Evgeny Seleznev 16 November 2020 17: 45
    +6
    It was interesting to know why. No idea, no people. There is a rotten ear of power. It turns out to be a swamp.
  • antivirus
    antivirus 16 November 2020 19: 54
    +4
    the question is not about the readiness of the Army and the Navy - but about the readiness to carry the hardships and deprivation of war in the rear of the collective Mary Ivanovna - will women (no longer women) "plow on themselves"? letting men go to war - THEIR, WOMEN'S PSYCHOLOGY - THE COUNTRY'S WILL BE READY FOR WAR. to give birth again, to replace the dead.
    everything else is an oral account, corvettes and the number of tanks with cartridges and dry rations, for first graders.
  • Ivan K
    Ivan K 16 November 2020 21: 16
    0
    Urrra, for Gazprom! For Abramovich's yacht! Give ... Hurray!
  • Calm
    Calm 17 November 2020 07: 59
    +1
    And what does the front have to do with it !!! ??? If our brains do not have enough production in the country to establish, to make import substitution, to build a dialogue with other countries competently, everyone is pissed away thieves are trading in oil !!! Nato tam. Further legs someone does not piss on the go!
  • Baloo
    Baloo 17 November 2020 08: 42
    -1
    Quote: Tagil
    Well, if you and the author get off the couch in the front rows of those going to the front and sit in the trenches, then Russia will win all.

    Frozen pregnancy is a serious danger to health and life.
  • Sofa
    Sofa 17 November 2020 12: 56
    +2
    For whom to go for people who already do not fit into the plasma, or for promises that are not fulfilled and there is no money as always. The author correctly stated everything along the borders of Russia create instability, but we can not do anything, because as we depended on the West, we are still dependent in the field of technology, sanctions, oil, etc. and no one wants to get away from this, the moneybags eliminate everything, they have enough.
  • Dmitry Nikolaevich Fedunov
    Dmitry Nikolaevich Fedunov 19 November 2020 08: 11
    0
    Quote: Tagil
    Well, if you and the author get off the couch in the front rows of those going to the front and sit in the trenches, then Russia will win all.

    By yourself! All by yourself!
    The Armenians have added to the list of those to whom the Russian Federation owes nothing ... laughing
  • zenion
    zenion 19 November 2020 18: 18
    0
    Tagil (Sergei) Tuta some do not remember the proverb three thousand years ago - a bad peace is better than a good war. Based on what happened to Armenia, they impose on Russia. This is how to compare the situation in an anecdote. The old lord comes to the doctor and says - he married a young girl and I want children. A year passed and the lord told the doctor the baby was born. Then the doctor told an anecdote. An old man is walking in Africa and a lion comes across to him. Then the old man raised his cane, pointed it at the lion and said Poo, the lion fell down dead. And when the old man turned around, he saw that behind him was a hunter with a real gun. So, a grandfather at 80 thinks - if I don't, then that guy at 30, of course, also shouldn't. Once they beat Armenia, they will beat Russia. Once Hitler captured Europe in a month, he would capture the USSR in two months.
  • Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 16 November 2020 15: 09
    +1
    Lyosha, tie everything up with yours.
    Russia is Me, and You too! Everyone who came to us - Everyone is buried here, We have a lot of Earth - we'll dig the next ones too!
    Hi!
    1. SaLaR
      SaLaR 16 November 2020 15: 14
      -1
      Abramovich's yacht has enough room for everyone ...float away
      1. Charik
        Charik 16 November 2020 15: 37
        10
        It would be better of course- "THEY DROWNED"
        1. SaLaR
          SaLaR 16 November 2020 15: 38
          +6
          Onozh ...not drowning
      2. KCA
        KCA 16 November 2020 15: 59
        -3
        Abramovich sold Rosneft to the state, worked as a governor, fed Chukotka for his own money, threw Berezovsky on the grandmother, has the right to a yacht, but what does everyone remember him? Is he a citizen of Russia or Great Britain, by the way?
        1. SaLaR
          SaLaR 16 November 2020 17: 54
          +1
          Holy man Abramovich ..........))
      3. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 16 November 2020 18: 22
        -1
        Quote: SaLaR
        There is enough space for everyone on Abramovich's yacht ...

        If you have time.
        1. SaLaR
          SaLaR 16 November 2020 18: 24
          -1
          They will have time ... and we will take the rap ...
    2. WIKI
      WIKI 16 November 2020 16: 03
      16
      Quote: Hunter 2
      Everyone who came to us - Everyone is buried here, We have a lot of Earth - we'll dig the next ones too!

      Loud slogans. The oligarchs and state capitalism have come to us .. Are you going to bury them, or will you peacefully coexist with them?
    3. paul3390
      paul3390 16 November 2020 16: 21
      22
      I would not be so optimistic. For in the coming war - why should the people crawl under the tanks? Everything will be like in WWI - everyone will simply spit and go home, stupidly refusing to defend such power. For to die for the thief who stole the country - bad nema .. Last time - Russia was able to pull out the Bolsheviks. It remains only to pray that this time they will be found. Otherwise, with such rulers, we are all definitely kirdyk ..
    4. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 16: 55
      +7
      Quote: Hunter 2
      Lyosha, tie everything up with yours.
      Russia is Me, and You too! Everyone who came to us - Everyone is buried here, We have a lot of Earth - we'll dig the next ones too!
      Hi!

      Alexey, in our history there were not only heroic victories, but also shameful defeats. Today we are categorically not ready for war. The war is primarily about the economy and finance, and you can see how it is on this front.
  • Svarog
    Svarog 16 November 2020 15: 16
    16
    There is no victory, just as there is no obvious defeat. At the exit, we get zones, "fronts" where the problem is not solved, but only postponed. As in Donbass, in Ukraine as a whole.

    When there is no victory, it is already a defeat. For a frozen, smoldering conflict drains resources, and the more such conflicts along the perimeter, the more dangerous the situation is.
    As noted above, Turkey has again burst into the former sphere of our influence. Three hundred years of military-political efforts and a lot of blood of the Russian people in the Caucasus - the Kremlin "bargained" for three decades.

    Now it is already obvious to many that the king is naked ..
    1. paul3390
      paul3390 16 November 2020 16: 21
      22
      Now it is already obvious to many that the king is naked ..


    2. Snail N9
      Snail N9 16 November 2020 16: 46
      21
      Outdated information, but clear:

      Well, add "patriotism": you have to fight for something:
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 16 November 2020 17: 17
        +7
        Yes, everything is "easier and easier for me to live" in that country. Every day I receive notifications about the "relief" of my ̶k̶a̶r̶m̶a̶n̶a̶ life. Here's right, literally, now:
        On Monday, November 16, it became known that in St. Petersburg the metro fare may rise. The corresponding draft resolution of the tariff committee was published on the administration website.

        According to the document, the fare will rise to 60 rubles. This is how much a one-time trip to the metro will cost using a token. The price of hand luggage is still unknown - for one piece in excess of the established norms.

        Also, it is not known how the fares for the carriers of "Plantain" will change.

        https://news.mail.ru/economics/44172437/?frommail=1
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 16 November 2020 17: 46
          10
          Colleague hi,
          and not figs on Peter fumble! We must go to Putin's fronts or crawl to the cemetery.smile
  • Interlocutor
    Interlocutor 16 November 2020 15: 20
    -17 qualifying.
    With such "rulers" Russia is not ready for anything. Unless only for the sale of the latter.

    We have you dear. We will win with you. Well, if you tear off zh2py from the sofa.
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 16 November 2020 15: 36
    +1
    Lexus, from time immemorial it has become a tradition that Russia was not ready for this or that war, but quite often Russia turned out to be the winner, or among the winners! I will not hide, and lost as the Russian-Japanese war of 1904-1905, but then, years later, "the debt" was returned in full! And, as always, thanks to our people, their desire to live as they please, but not as slaves!
    1. SaLaR
      SaLaR 16 November 2020 15: 39
      +4
      I have a couple of hats in the attic ...give?
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 16 November 2020 17: 34
      13
      Quote: Thrifty
      Lexus, from time immemorial it has become a tradition that Russia was not ready for this or that war, but quite often Russia turned out to be the winner, or among the winners! I will not hide, and lost as the Russian-Japanese war of 1904-1905, but then, years later, "the debt" was returned in full! And, as always, thanks to our people, their desire to live as they please, but not as slaves!


      Could we fight the Japanese and the Germans on two fronts?
      And with all their armada, which captured almost the entire Southeast Asia?

      I don't think they could.

      And the "favor" that we supposedly returned was in fact a beating.
      Twice as many soldiers, and all veterans, and not like the Japanese, old men and young people.
      Five or six times more equipment.
      Therefore, the Japanese army was defeated in 12 days.


      Of course, you can pull phrases out of context - but this is not so pretentious and fabulous.

      Of course, you can and should be proud of the memory of your ancestors!

      But
      Since then, military affairs have gone far ahead.

      There is no longer a mob reserve system.
      It is no longer possible to launch enterprises on a war footing.
      Evacuate the plant to the Urals?
      Who will it help?
      Now even conventional weapons have a range. which shoots through our huge country up and down.

      There hasn't been a major war of attrition in the past 35 years.
      The last were Iran and Iraq.

      Everything shows that in the event of war, you will have to fight only with what the troops already have.
      And that's all.
      even 5 planes will not have time to build.
      They won't have time to build a single ship.
      A maximum of a dozen tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.
      We are now building 1 combat aircraft for 4 months, the name of 1000 suppliers all over the country.
      And there won't be this supplier? there will be no plane.
      Everything is the same with tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.
      learn to think with your head - and not throw slogans.

      We have 250 aircraft in service - and count on them.
      No longer.

      And the infantry, like cannon fodder, does not solve anything in principle right now.
      Nothing at all. From the word zero.
      Only take positions that were previously destroyed by someone to zero.
      Designate!
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 19: 18
        0
        Quote: SovAr238A
        Could we fight the Japanese and the Germans on two fronts?
        And with all their armada, which captured almost the entire Southeast Asia?

        I don't think they could.


        Actually, I could. Cruisers do not travel along the railway and do not climb hills .... And by the way, do not cry so much about the powerlessness of the Kwantung Army. This is not nearly so. Another question, they basically did not think that you can fight like this !!! Yes, and the expense of the Japanese personnel, in principle, is not comparable. Losses during the island campaign and in the Philippines are really scanty.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 16 November 2020 19: 46
          -2
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          Quote: SovAr238A
          Could we fight the Japanese and the Germans on two fronts?
          And with all their armada, which captured almost the entire Southeast Asia?

          I don't think they could.


          Actually, I could. Cruisers do not travel along the railway and do not climb hills .... And by the way, do not cry so much about the powerlessness of the Kwantung Army. This is not nearly so. Another question, they basically did not think that you can fight like this !!! Yes, and the expense of the Japanese personnel, in principle, is not comparable. Losses during the island campaign and in the Philippines are really scanty.


          Don't underestimate the Far East.
          This is the misfortune of all superficial historians.

          The same Far Eastern Lend-Lease - was many times more important than the Atlantic ...
          They just did not write books and poems about him.
          Through the Far East, only military equipment, strategic materials, food products arrived in the USSR 3 times more than through the Atlantic.
          I mean only sea transportation.
          Are you talking about some kind of cruiser ????


          All Soviet orders for delivery through the Far East were carried out with an accuracy of 3 weeks - and not 90 days, as was the case in the Atlantic.

          About 8 thousand combat aircraft were delivered to us on their own.
          Through the Far East and Siberia.

          Do you understand that if the Japanese opened a war on the second front, they would calmly reach Novosibirsk ????
          And we wouldn't have half of the country.
          Just because. that there were very few of our troops and we simply would not have coped with a war on 2 fronts.

          And there wouldn't be those 8 thousand planes.
          there would be no 40 frigates that the Americans gave us.
          there would be no thousands of our tanks. since without alloying elements, our metallurgy could not have made armor even for 1 tank ...
          The fact that almost all aviation gasoline was American and went exactly through the Far East?
          And what would you do without aviation on the western front?
          No tanks, no stew, no oil for technology, no tobacco and smoking paper, no drinking alcohol?
          Never mind...
          Our Country would simply be torn apart. if Japan entered the war on a full scale!
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 19: 55
            -1
            Quote: SovAr238A
            This is the misfortune of all superficial historians.

            The trouble of superficial "historians" like you is in completely denying the lessons of the Chinese company and the peculiarities of the Far Eastern theater of operations

            Quote: SovAr238A
            there would be no 40 frigates that the Americans gave us.

            Well, there wouldn't be any of them

            Quote: SovAr238A
            The fact that almost all aviation gasoline was American and went exactly through the Far East?


            It's not that close.
            Moreover, I will tell you that the Lend-Lease, as something more or less serious, did not go until 1943, imported aviation gasoline went to imported aircraft, etc. etc.

            All Soviet orders for delivery through the Far East were carried out with an accuracy of 3 weeks - and not 90 days, as was the case in the Atlantic.

            Transsib transshipment was successfully devouring this profit. That is why the Atlantic route was so important
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 16 November 2020 20: 16
              0
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              Quote: SovAr238A
              This is the misfortune of all superficial historians.

              The trouble of superficial "historians" like you is in completely denying the lessons of the Chinese company and the peculiarities of the Far Eastern theater of operations

              Quote: SovAr238A
              there would be no 40 frigates that the Americans gave us.

              Well, there wouldn't be any of them

              Quote: SovAr238A
              The fact that almost all aviation gasoline was American and went exactly through the Far East?


              It's not that close.
              Moreover, I will tell you that the Lend-Lease, as something more or less serious, did not go until 1943, imported aviation gasoline went to imported aircraft, etc. etc.

              All Soviet orders for delivery through the Far East were carried out with an accuracy of 3 weeks - and not 90 days, as was the case in the Atlantic.

              Transsib transshipment was successfully devouring this profit. That is why the Atlantic route was so important


              Come on? Those. armor steel without hundreds of thousands of tons of nickel. manganese. chromium, vanadium - could it be done?
              Do you really think so?
              Yes, not a single tank would have come out without supplies from America, because our reserves were at zero ...
              350 thousand trucks?
              Nothing?
              The entire rear, supporting the front, was on Lend-Lease trucks, and not on the ZIS-5, of which about 80 thousand were produced during the war.
              And what is a front without a rear? nothing. Zero without a stick !!!!
              You put yourself as a former military man - why such illiteracy in understanding the simplest foundations of military affairs?
              We have produced 63 thousand aircraft, and we have delivered 19 thousand helicopters.
              It's nothing?
              Every fourth plane was Lend-Lease ...
              About the fact that it was from America that planting materials for collective farms came - you don't even know about it ...
              Have you ever wondered how the food supply was created for the entire population of the country? And what she could do in the face of losses of Ukrainian granaries. if you understand. that before the virgin lands it was still 20 years almost ... ???
              You survived precisely due to Lend-Lease.
              They gave us seed. they gave us calves, chicken eggs for broilers ... Military equipment is important, but food during the war is a hundred times more important.
              And even if our poultry farms and dairies worked, it was only because under the Lend-Lease they gave us sperm, calves, piglets and eggs ...
              And the war was won also for this reason, that both people and soldiers had something to eat and something to fight ...
              The service of the rear at certain moments is a hundred times more important than that of the front.

              And yes.
              The letters went on the Transsib for 20 days - no transshipment slowed down anything.
              as if from Arkhangelsk it was much faster ...
              I am familiar with the railway.
              The way from Samara to Naberezhnye Chelny (500 km) by freight train takes 6-7 days., Moscow (1100 km) - 6-7 days, Novosibirsk (3000 km) - 8-10 days ... See for yourself the dependence of distance and speed.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 21: 33
                0
                Quote: SovAr238A
                no transshipment slowed down anything.
                as if from Arkhangelsk it was much faster ...

                A naive Chukchi youth. From Arkhangelsk it was just instant compared to the Far East. It could not be otherwise.

                We have produced 63 thousand aircraft, and we have delivered 19 thousand helicopters.

                As usual, you do not know how it was there in reality .... We have not built 63 thousand aircraft, if anything.

                Quote: SovAr238A
                You survived precisely due to Lend-Lease.

                Are you not us?

                why such illiteracy in understanding the simplest foundations of military affairs?

                You are correct about yourself. Besides, you don't know how to communicate.
                Since you are hurricane sclerosis, I do not remember. We stopped the Nazis and turned the tide of events with a minimal Lend-Lease. He barely flickered there. And about supplies to the Far East, I think you are fantasizing
                The entire rear, supporting the front, was on Lend-Lease trucks, and not on the ZIS-5, of which about 80 thousand were produced during the war.

                You do not know how many trucks the USSR had at the beginning of the war. And not in the subject of the word at all.

                Come on? Those. armor steel without hundreds of thousands of tons of nickel. manganese. chromium, vanadium - could it be done? Do you really think so?

                I wonder where I said that? You are a noble dreamer. Themselves for the opponent came up with arguments and brilliantly exposed them. Cool.
                Let me remind you that I just said without supplies the USSR would not have remained if the route through Vladik collapsed. And you probably do not know what kind of sword dance were delivered to the Far East. So I will explain, since you cannot master what you read. When delivering goods to the Far East, some of the transports went through the Kuril Straits with very high risk and losses, some reached Petropavlovsk, where they were transshipped to Ust-Bolsheretsk. And pushing cargo along the Transsib was an extremely difficult event.

                Yes, not a single tank would have come out without supplies from America, because our reserves were at zero ...


                This is a case of so-called lies. Study the fundamental works on the activities of the defense industry during the war years and supplies according to L-L and a separate article on buying for currency ... Where, when, how much, etc.
      2. uhu189
        uhu189 16 November 2020 21: 35
        -1
        Yes you are right. Very sober assessment
    3. Overlock
      Overlock 17 November 2020 15: 27
      19
      Quote: Thrifty
      but quite often Russia turned out to be the winner, or even among the winners!

      at what cost! How many dead!
  • credo
    credo 16 November 2020 16: 09
    -2
    [quote = Lexus] With such "rulers" Russia is not ready for anything. Unless only for the sale of the latter. [/ Quote]
    And more specifically, can you say something or name the rulers who were ready to repel the attacker?
    It is known that Russia was more than once invaded by the Mongols, fought, became dependent and only then threw off the yoke.
    The Poles occupied Moscow at one time, but they were defeated and made their way home. It was the same with the French and their coalition in 1812.
    After the First World War, the former Russian Empire was torn apart by a pack of Western dogs, some having chopped off a piece for themselves, some robbed and got out with the loot, but the pieces of the former empire were later returned thanks to the heroism of the Soviet people.
    Hitlerite Germany, together with allies and hangers-on, invaded the USSR in 1941, but was subsequently defeated and surrendered.
    So, you have outlined a solid era, choose from it the most worthy, whom contemporaries did not later blame for weakness and unpreparedness for war.

    [/ quote] When the Kremlin is forced into war - Georgia (2008), Ukraine (2014), Syria (2015), it tries to "settle", "stabilize" the situation. There is no victory, just as there is no obvious defeat. [/ Quote]
    The author did not explain what he expected from the listed companies. Russia, which was supposed to re-include Georgia and Ukraine, and at the same time Syria, or maybe put its governors at the head of these countries and support the power with bayonets?
    Given the presence in these countries of a huge number of opponents of Russia, any of the listed options looks simply utopian.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 19: 19
      +1
      Quote: credo
      The author did not explain what he expected from the listed companies. Russia, which was supposed to re-include Georgia and Ukraine, and at the same time Syria, or maybe put its governors at the head of these countries and support the power with bayonets?


      It's a mystery to me too
  • paul3390
    paul3390 16 November 2020 16: 16
    16
    The question is not in personalities, but in the state system. Bourgeois - under any president, the country will screw up. What we clearly see. And only Soviet power can save us all. Just like 100 years ago .. The sooner we understand this, the less we lose ..
    1. credo
      credo 16 November 2020 16: 32
      -10 qualifying.
      Quote: paul3390
      The question is not in personalities, but in the state system. Bourgeois - under any president, the country will screw up. What we clearly see. And only Soviet power can save us all. Just like 100 years ago .. The sooner we understand this, the less we lose ..

      Have you forgotten who destroyed the great and mighty USSR?
      So I will remind you - the Soviet government, together with the "fiery and incorruptible" Bolshevik Communists, Komsomol "leaders" and trade union "leaders".
      Looking at today's communists, socialists and liberal democrats in the State Duma, we can safely say that the arrival of Soviet power 2.0 in our country and with such "leaders"
      will turn into a real catastrophe, which the country certainly will not survive, therefore if something is created on the ruins of the USSR, then it is definitely not Soviet power, since she discredited herself completely and has no faith.
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 16 November 2020 16: 37
        17
        And who said that the Communist Party is a communist party ??? No.
        As for Soviet power, isn't it funny yourself? Until now, we can’t devour her mighty legacy, despite all our efforts .. And to the same place, I discredited it .. That’s why I look like Comrade Stalin, the further we go, the more we are honored by the people. Despite all the tubs of dirt that the Soviet Union is trying to pour on him. Only liberal bastards can not believe in the future of socialism. And write such nonsense.
        1. credo
          credo 16 November 2020 16: 53
          -12 qualifying.
          Quote: paul3390
          And who said that the Communist Party is a communist party ??? No.
          As for Soviet power, isn't it funny yourself? Until now, we can’t devour her mighty legacy, despite all our efforts .. And to the same place, I discredited it .. That’s why I look like Comrade Stalin, the further we go, the more we are honored by the people. Despite all the tubs of dirt that the Soviet Union is trying to pour on him. Only liberal bastards can not believe in the future of socialism. And write such nonsense.

          Before writing about the shitheads, it may be worth looking around you and counting the number of those who are ready to build socialism, as you imagine it, together with you.
          I advise you to formulate your program for the future and publish it, and we will see what is nonsense in it, and what is really feasible.
          Just take care of yourself and your nerves, because I suppose there will be many questions to your program, especially in light of the known facts that led to the death of the first state of the Soviets.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 20: 25
            +8
            Quote: credo
            Before writing about the shitheads, it may be worth looking around you and counting the number of those who are ready to build socialism, as you imagine it, together with you.

            Just count the number of cons of those who pour slop on the USSR. Maybe then you will understand that there is a great demand for social justice in society.
            Quote: credo
            I advise you to formulate your program for the future and publish it, and we will see what is nonsense in it, and what is really feasible.

            Are you an expert in state building?
            1. credo
              credo 16 November 2020 20: 53
              -3
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Quote: credo
              Before writing about the shitheads, it may be worth looking around you and counting the number of those who are ready to build socialism, as you imagine it, together with you.

              Just count the number of cons of those who pour slop on the USSR. Maybe then you will understand that there is a great demand for social justice in society.
              Quote: credo
              I advise you to formulate your program for the future and publish it, and we will see what is nonsense in it, and what is really feasible.

              Are you an expert in state building?

              Ha ha ha, yes, you are like a teenager who checks his opinion against the number of positive likes.
              Learn to look realistically at life and evaluate not only positive but also negative facts from the life of the USSR, maybe then you will understand that the ancient wisdom - You cannot enter the same river twice - also applies to the USSR, therefore, you need to draw conclusions from the fact of its death and not rave gone.
              In any society, there is a great demand for social justice, but this does not mean that it needs to be achieved in a revolutionary way, as in October 1917. We already went through this and drowned in blood. We need to look for another way, experiment, try, and not torment the past, picking it out to pain.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 16 November 2020 21: 24
                +4
                Quote: credo
                rather than tormenting the past, picking it out to the point of pain.

                Yes Yes. Understand and forgive.
        2. digitalcn75
          digitalcn75 17 November 2020 16: 20
          -3
          Communism won't pass
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 17 November 2020 16: 23
            +1
            Repeat a couple of dozen more times - maybe you will believe it and it will feel better ..
  • deniso
    deniso 16 November 2020 16: 37
    -1
    General Staff, call the author urgently, otherwise it will be too late !!!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • deniso
    deniso 16 November 2020 16: 50
    +2
    bullshit, why should we react like that to any nonsense? We have Kuz'ka's mother, she will take care of everything.
  • dmitriyruss
    dmitriyruss 16 November 2020 17: 35
    0
    The current ruler is better than the previous ones, the best there is now, not the fact that someone will be better in the future
    1. Dante Alighieri
      Dante Alighieri 17 November 2020 09: 39
      +1
      The current ruler is better than the previous ones, the best there is now, not the fact that someone will be better in the future

      Remember the anecdote about the blonde on the Arbat? Here it is also: maybe it will be better, maybe not. The probability is 50 to 50. But until we try, we won't know. Fortunately, this "leader" is not eternal.
      Threat, well, about the fact that the current one is better than the previous ones - it depends on whom you will compare with, it all depends purely on your personal knowledge.
  • bistrov.
    bistrov. 17 November 2020 07: 51
    +1
    Quote: lexus
    With such "rulers" Russia is not ready for anything

    Enough ABOUT. Why are the "rulers" of Russia not happy with you? Moreover, you yourself choose them ...
  • l7yzo
    l7yzo 21 November 2020 21: 41
    0
    And what have you got to the bottom of the rulers ?? Only they are there in the country ?? And what have you been doing all these years? And what has everyone in the country been doing these years? Let's be honest - many people liked it and many were satisfied - the old generation flattered their pride and were fed by the state. For security officials - additional ration and influence. All who decided were in business.

    So it is not necessary to scold the authorities and the youth as is customary. It's all just *****. And pensioners, as they were touched, immediately ran. And officials - the layoffs have just begun, if the machine is working, it has a very large inertia, many will be laid off.
    And remember before - "Road to the young!"
    And what will they say about you ?? And they will say the time of reinforced concrete assholes. Well, - sit further on warm chairs, just do not shout - that you were not involved in the fall.

    Now we need to ask ourselves the question - who will fix everything, who will be able to and who knows how?
  • Alexga
    Alexga 16 November 2020 15: 08
    +2
    In my opinion, the last paragraph describes the state of affairs very correctly. Let us remember when in 91 Russia, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, was playing with vouchers, all other republics threw themselves into nationalism, where they are still arriving. And the Russian authorities especially do not want to correct the situation; they probably count money out of habit.
  • carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 16 November 2020 15: 09
    10
    In fact, now Russia finds itself in the situation of 1904 and 1914. Shameful failures in the war with Japan. The heroism of Russian soldiers and sailors did not evoke any positive response in Russian society, on the contrary, among the students, only criticism. Hurray-patriotic frenzy at the beginning of the war with Germany, and then the complete collapse and disintegration of Russian society. Military failures triggered the collapse of the empire.
    I'm just trying to understand what has to do with the current life and situation and I can't understand)
    what war ... with what Turkish empire ...
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 November 2020 15: 31
      +3
      Quote: carstorm 11
      I'm just trying to understand what has to do with the current life and situation and I can't understand)

      in vain. In my opinion, it is useless to look for a reasonable grain in this hysterical whining of a group of comrades under the nickname "Samsonov". What are they, interestingly, feeding their cockroaches in their heads?
      1. KCA
        KCA 16 November 2020 16: 05
        -13 qualifying.
        Nick Samsonov is he in honor of General Samsonov, together with Rennekampf, who merged the offensive of the Russian army in 1914?
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 November 2020 16: 11
          -6
          In honor of the blessed Samsonius - the patron saint of capitulators and all-perpetrators.
        2. t-12
          t-12 16 November 2020 16: 35
          +3
          What does "drain" mean? Samsonov completely fulfilled the task - he pulled back the German units from the western front. The task was initially self-destructive.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 21: 37
            -2
            Samsonov screwed up to the fullest. He forgot to think about the flanks and the rear not to forget
    2. saigon
      saigon 16 November 2020 15: 36
      17
      With the great empire of the Turks, how can you deny this Dmitry))))
      Everything and the empire of the Turks showed up and fucking advanced methods of war without any pilots and the Turks special forces with a reinforced frontal bone.
      Gentlemen, fans of security pilots can at least make a comparison with submarines of the beginning of WWI, the same stealth (difficulties with detection), the same difficulty of destruction (and not very long and relative vulnerability) and that someone won the war against submarines when they were taken seriously?
      It may be time to think that the UAV is a weapon against a deliberately weak enemy, not against even an approximately equal one and in a war only of low intensity (there is no danger of raking in your cities and villages).
      Everything, as always, is again falling into imported new quirks.
      Where do the Turks have experience of war with a normal enemy?
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 16 November 2020 17: 57
        -1
        Quote: saigon
        .
        Gentlemen, fans of security pilots can at least make a comparison with submarines of the beginning of WWI, the same stealth (difficulties with detection), the same difficulty of destruction (and not very long and relative vulnerability) and that someone won the war against submarines when they were taken seriously?
        It may be time to think that the UAV is a weapon against a deliberately weak enemy, not against even an approximately equal one and in a war only of low intensity (there is no danger of raking in your cities and villages).
        Everything, as always, is again falling into imported new quirks.
        Where do the Turks have experience of war with a normal enemy?


        You are also systemically mistaken.
        Submarines reigned for almost 30 years before they could be pacified.
        30 years is in those moments. when the development of Scientific and Technical Progress went by leaps and bounds.
        When 2-3 weeks passed from idea to serial sample.

        And what now?
        Wars are fleeting.
        They are not going to exterminate the people, nobody needs infantry for a long time.
        Wars are aimed at destroying infrastructure and military equipment.
        Already 40 as it became clear, and only that there is no mobilization reserve in armaments.
        And no one will build tanks and planes and submarines and radars and torpedoes with missiles.
        They will not build.
        And they do not give birth.
        They will fight only with what is here and now.

        And whoever quickly destroys the maximum of equipment here and now is the winner.

        And the infantry?
        And you saw that the infantry - how drones were chasing it ...
        Thus instilling fear in every soldier ...

        This is the reason - fear.

        And fear appears after complete disappointment.
        And disappointment appears there. where there were unreasonable expectations of success.
        And unreasonable expectations of success are the work of jingoistic patriots.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 19: 22
          0
          Quote: SovAr238A
          Submarines reigned for almost 30 years

          Not a single modern submarine battleship was sunk during WWI, if anything.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 16 November 2020 19: 53
            0
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Submarines reigned for almost 30 years

            Not a single modern submarine battleship was sunk during WWI, if anything.


            so they never went anywhere ...
            From 14 to 44, the role of battleships was near-zero ...
            In those places. where the submarines were and were built ..

            To be honest? It is so?
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 20: 01
              +2
              Quote: SovAr238A
              From 14 to 44, the role of battleships was near-zero ...


              I disagree - look how many miles the Black Sea battleships reeled in WWII, and how many miles Allied battleships reeled in and fired shells during WWII.
              1. aglet
                aglet 17 November 2020 08: 20
                0
                "I disagree - look how many miles the Black Sea battleships reeled in WWII, and how many miles Allied battleships reeled in and fired shells during WWII."
                Well, we are not talking about winding up miles and shooting shells, but about the meaning of their existence, combat effectiveness. the battleship is not a Zhiguli, at its fabulous cost, it should bring at least some benefit, except for winding the run
            2. saigon
              saigon 17 November 2020 06: 13
              +2
              Sir, what about the Battle of Jutland?
              Probably from the bases, the arc was fired into a friend or not?
              During WWII, the British on their battleships in the Mediterranean did not stand in bases despite about a hundred Italian boats, the Japanese fleet and the American fleet did not stand in bases.
              The heavy cruisers of the Japanese fought intensely until the very end while there was fuel.
        2. saigon
          saigon 16 November 2020 19: 23
          +4
          Here the infantry will always not be able to occupy the city from the air; in the fight of approximately equal opponents, the weapon of terror will not justify itself.
          The successes of all UAVs where there is no approximate equality.
          Low-intensity conflicts and counter-guerrilla operations.
          Have you ever thought that the UAV is the second edition of the Douai theory on a new technological basis and nothing more, the search for the sword of the kladenets and the tales of the gods throwing lightning.
          Everything is nothing new and believe me the antidote will be found very quickly, all this was already true in a different form.
      2. cmax
        cmax 16 November 2020 18: 06
        +2
        Quote: saigon
        With the great empire of the Turks, how can you deny this Dmitry))))
        Everything and the empire of the Turks showed up and fucking advanced methods of war without any pilots and the Turks special forces with a reinforced frontal bone.
        Gentlemen, fans of security pilots can at least make a comparison with submarines of the beginning of WWI, the same stealth (difficulties with detection), the same difficulty of destruction (and not very long and relative vulnerability) and that someone won the war against submarines when they were taken seriously?
        It may be time to think that the UAV is a weapon against a deliberately weak enemy, not against even an approximately equal one and in a war only of low intensity (there is no danger of raking in your cities and villages).
        Everything, as always, is again falling into imported new quirks.
        Where do the Turks have experience of war with a normal enemy?

        You are a strange comrade. There are two armies approximately the same in relation to (Armenia and not Armenia) identical tanks, aircraft
        , S300, guns and even machine guns. But one side has drones and barge ammunition. The result is known. Or you have to sit in the trench yourself and wait for this thing to fly on your head and you will understand that there are more weighty arguments than unhealthy optimism.
        Of course, the song about the Varyag flatters pride, but it won't save you from the cemetery. But most likely you represent someone else in the trenches. You already feel good. Uryayaya !!! In a country where the power without exception (for example, the fourth mayor of Tomsk was imprisoned) steals, where the average salary of 35000 rubles is considered very good at current exchange rates, it cannot have prospects by default. Remember, only 1930 years passed from 1945 to 15. From 2000 to 2020 ????
        1. saigon
          saigon 16 November 2020 19: 32
          +3
          Well, I know how it is in the trenches (which are also badly dug out because you can force someone to dig). So the nastiest thing is mortars (howitzers were rare), I can tell you about it, just to understand this, you have to try it yourself.
          So I can imagine what the infantry feels, but what a tanker or artilleryman feels in battle is gone, I can’t imagine.
      3. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 21: 42
        +2
        Quote: saigon
        that a UAV is a weapon against an obviously weak enemy


        Not so again. UAVs of a small class conducting reconnaissance in the interests of the ground forces (with the issuance of a control center for artillery and missilemen) is a vital necessity, and by the beginning of this year, 2300 units were purchased for the Russian Armed Forces. Like Outpost, Aileron, Orlan. But male-class UAVs (such as Orion or Bayraktar) are yes, in their regard, I can agree with this assessment. BUT we need these first of all for long-distance sea reconnaissance (Same Altius)
        1. saigon
          saigon 17 November 2020 06: 02
          +3
          At the expense of reconnaissance, one can agree, shock UAVs only have an effect against a weak enemy.
          Another search for a miracle weapon.
          All cited examples of the success of these devices take place in conditions of little or no opposition.
          Again, many have a skewed and playful mind in their heads, forgetting that the armed forces are a complex of different types of troops. In my opinion (subjective), the weak point in this type of weapon is the direct and reverse connection, and most likely they will solve the issue of countering UAVs precisely in the light of depriving them of communication.
  • SaLaR
    SaLaR 16 November 2020 15: 10
    -6
    Everything is gone ... The client is leaving .. The gypsum is being removed ..............
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 16 November 2020 15: 11
    -5
    Yes, there will be no war, as here some members of the forum argue ... Only our enemies made our country in the list of enemies number 1, and intend to destroy it by any available means.
    I am amazed at their naivety.
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 16 November 2020 15: 30
      12
      Only our enemies included our country in the list of enemies number 1, and intend to destroy it by any available means.
      ... And how despicable they are. Bought a VAZ, now Renault-Nissan-VAZ, Ford has built screwdriver factories, Coca-Cola and Pepsi are fighting for the market space of Russia, Protekter and Gambel are doing the same, I don't want to talk about Rusal ... all contribute and contribute ... And the GDP calls them partners ..
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 16 November 2020 15: 31
        -1
        That's right, the economy is our Achilles heel.
        1. Daniil Konovalenko
          Daniil Konovalenko 16 November 2020 15: 33
          +3
          The war will begin at their factories, we will produce Armata, Petrels, with Vanguards - let the partners build ...
      2. KCA
        KCA 16 November 2020 16: 09
        -2
        And how many assets does China have in the camp of the enemy - the United States? And how much investment have American companies made in the Chinese economy? T
        1. Daniil Konovalenko
          Daniil Konovalenko 16 November 2020 16: 24
          +2
          The article is called Lessons of Karabakh. Russia is not ready for war, not the lessons of the Uyghur region. China is not ready for war.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 17 November 2020 08: 05
            0
            Is the USA ready for it?
  • Hypertension
    Hypertension 16 November 2020 15: 11
    +7
    There is no unity between the country's leadership, the party in power and the people. And it cannot be, since social injustice in the Russian Federation has reached unprecedented heights.

  • Asad
    Asad 16 November 2020 15: 11
    -4
    Aaaaa! FSE is gone, Turkey BREAKED !! Russia is helpless !!! Ugh on you!
    1. cmax
      cmax 16 November 2020 18: 11
      0
      Quote: ASAD
      Aaaaa! FSE is gone, Turkey BREAKED !! Russia is helpless !!! Ugh on you!

      Put on a mask, but Covid!
  • BARKAS
    BARKAS 16 November 2020 15: 11
    +7
    The Kremlin hides and runs from any conflict, as it feels its weakness in the absence of unity of power, the leading party and the people.

    Only for some reason the whole world is convinced of the opposite. Russia is involved and even is the organizer of all existing conflicts.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 16 November 2020 15: 12
    +8
    Who is not ready for what war ???
    Everything was lost, the top ones were all merged !!!
    So does it come out?
    Question .... and who is READY and for what war ???
    Can the author give someone an example for comparison?
    1. cniza
      cniza 16 November 2020 16: 18
      +2
      Today there is not a single state that would be ready for war, well, maybe apart from Israel, and then for very specific actions, otherwise everyone is not ready ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 16 November 2020 16: 59
        0
        Some people want to rest against their capabilities ...
        We have some possibilities, fortunately, Wishlist does not go beyond the reasonable ...
        I do not consider our top ones to be the most, the most, but .... "play" against us is not kids, very serious guys, moreover, rabid enemies !!!
        In general, it is necessary to prepare more thoroughly .... giveaway is not played, but it does not run into time.
        Enemies, really, more ... this is not forever, and finally, we are no stranger to, BREAK!
        1. cniza
          cniza 16 November 2020 17: 30
          +3
          The fact of the matter is that they again gather a crowd against us and there are not children at all ...
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 16 November 2020 15: 14
    +8
    Oh my God! Crazy with their war.
    It’s wonderful to live in the midst of fire and smoke,
    And listen to the machine gun chatter
    Lead us the invincible king -
    Go-go.
    When the shells burst day and night,
    Rather give ranks and orders,
    So let it always rumble -
    War, war, war.
    The accelerant from a peaceful life grows dull
    Silk banners fade and decay
    And the one who speaks of humanism -
    Spy, spy.
    When the shells burst day and night,
    Rather give ranks and orders,
    So let it always rumble -
    War, war, war.
    We agree that a physicist and a philosopher,
    They moved their science forward,
    But the main issues are being resolved -
    In the ranks, in the ranks.
    When the shells burst day and night,
    Rather give ranks and orders,
    So let it always rumble -
    War, war, war.
  • Fungus
    Fungus 16 November 2020 15: 18
    -6
    Sheer whining, not an article. Russia is always ready for war.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 16 November 2020 15: 26
      -1
      .Russia is always ready for war.
      Yes, Russia was never ready for war, our helicopter was recently shot down and two of our pilots were killed ... Also tell me they were ready for this.
      1. KCA
        KCA 16 November 2020 16: 16
        -2
        After the end of the Korean War, the USSR was ready for war as never before, but when over the territory of friendly China, American fighters shot down a transport IL-12 without weapons and with identification marks of the USSR, when 21 people died, the USSR wiped out and simply shook out the USA monetary compensation for the plane and dead? We could have slapped the USA on cabbage soup
      2. cmax
        cmax 16 November 2020 18: 15
        -2
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        .Russia is always ready for war.
        Yes, Russia was never ready for war, our helicopter was recently shot down and two of our pilots were killed ... Also tell me they were ready for this.

        He himself was absent from the helicopter. So I'm ready.
  • aleks neym_2
    aleks neym_2 16 November 2020 15: 19
    +3
    Quote: Hunter 2
    Lyosha, tie everything up with yours.
    Russia is Me, and You too! Everyone who came to us - Everyone is buried here, We have a lot of Earth - we'll dig the next ones too!
    Hi!
    And where do we get so many shovels? Is that the BAP with a rotor to attract?
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 16 November 2020 15: 38
      +3
      Quote: aleks neym_2
      And where do we get so many shovels? Is that the BAP with a rotor to attract?

      I - to you, I personally will give you a personal name! Well, if you understand the digging technique "BAT with a rotor" - generally an irreplaceable Human! wink
      1. aleks neym_2
        aleks neym_2 17 November 2020 07: 35
        +2
        Very grateful! Just don't forget to add fuel and lubricants in the optimal amount!
  • Bessik
    Bessik 16 November 2020 15: 21
    +1
    After reading this nonsense, it became clear that Turkey is the world's imba)))
    1. cmax
      cmax 16 November 2020 18: 23
      0
      Quote: Bessik
      After reading this nonsense, it became clear that Turkey is the world's imba)))

      At the beginning of the 15s, China did not look good, but now where is the economy of Russia and where is China. Go to the store, not grocery. Iran, Israel, Turkey, Brazil have already taken the lead. The world is changing, and you still think in the old way. Look what will happen in the next XNUMX years and where Russia will end up with such an attitude towards the economy, its population and the theft of those in power. One Piskov is worth it - the voice of the state.
      1. Bessik
        Bessik 17 November 2020 07: 16
        0
        Okay, China, but what should I see in the store from Turkey?
        1. Dante Alighieri
          Dante Alighieri 17 November 2020 09: 47
          +3
          Well China, but what should I see in the store from Turkey

          Well, even here in Siberia there is a lot of Turkish knitwear, and Turkish guns are more and more often found in hunting shops. There are household appliances again. Few?
          1. Bessik
            Bessik 17 November 2020 10: 59
            0
            I don’t know how you have in Siberia, I have not seen Turkish knitwear in the Urals, not to mention household appliances.
            1. Dante Alighieri
              Dante Alighieri 17 November 2020 13: 13
              +2
              Strange, but the CSN of the city of Yekaterinburg (not advertising) says the opposite, it is enough to drive in the name of the company Beko
              1. Dante Alighieri
                Dante Alighieri 17 November 2020 13: 17
                +4
                For example, there are electric ovens
                1. Bessik
                  Bessik 17 November 2020 17: 41
                  -1
                  This is the first time I see such a brand, for such a low price it is better to take the Belarusian Hephaestus.
                  Russia also has its own brands of household appliances and what of this? Do you have household appliances in Slovenia, should you also be afraid of this country?
                  1. Dante Alighieri
                    Dante Alighieri 18 November 2020 06: 44
                    +1
                    This is the first time I see such a brand, for such a horse price it is better to take the Belarusian Hephaestus.

                    Well, I don't offer you anything to buy and I don't impose anything on you. You said that there are no Turkish-made household appliances on sale in the Urals, but I just demonstrated that this statement, to put it mildly, is not true. And what you choose is up to you.
                    Do you have household appliances in Slovenia, should you also be afraid of this country?

                    It’s not a matter of which country’s household appliances are represented in the store, but in their volumes, and therefore in who is the sales market for whom. This is how we found out that Turkish household appliances are present in domestic retail, but what about our appliances in Turkish or Slovenian stores? And if it is absent, then why? Poor quality, problems with logistics or limited production, which is not enough even for our own customers. Here you need to look in more detail. And having received the answers - to draw conclusions about the industrial potential.
                    1. Bessik
                      Bessik 18 November 2020 08: 57
                      0
                      Maybe I did not correctly state my thoughts: on the Russian market there are household appliances from the same Slovenia or Belarus BUT why do you focus on Turkish? Well, there are Turkish gas stoves on the Russian market of household appliances, so what? Does this make Turkey a Muslim China? I don't know for sure, but the Russian ELIKOR may also be present on the Turkish market.
                      It's funny, honestly, Turkey is the world's imba since we sell Turkish gas stove))
                      This is from the same song as Turkish tomatoes, they seem to be there, but no one sees them
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 November 2020 15: 24
    +7
    in Ukraine as a whole. Now also in Karabakh.

    Does Samsonov have problems with prepositions?
    Therefore, the Kremlin is fleeing any confrontation. Makes a beautiful face and retreats ...

    we have a kitchen hawk here. A bored man in the street, Samsonov, is tired of a vegetarian diet, does he want meat fried with napalm? "I pay taxes - show me the war on TV!" - So?
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 16 November 2020 15: 35
      +5
      Monday, a hard day, and right after Sunday for Samsonov. From historical obscurantism to political ...
  • lis-ik
    lis-ik 16 November 2020 15: 26
    +1
    Excellent article! I fully reflected the current situation and my own thoughts and premonitions.
  • Kolin
    Kolin 16 November 2020 15: 38
    +2
    Were they mushrooms or synthetic already?
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 16 November 2020 15: 42
      +1
      Were they mushrooms or synthetic already?
      .... No ... it's a birth injury .. laughing
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 November 2020 19: 16
        -4
        All of you giggle, and Samsonov is a fine fellow - he has made a supply of salt-matches-buckwheat and is scribbling 'about the war' from the cellar.
  • Old tanker
    Old tanker 16 November 2020 15: 39
    -2
    In the headline, Russia is not ready for war. From a lot of text bukaff it is not visible. Except for one phrase that there is no unity of power and people, as in the 41st. In 41, Getler also thought that there was no such unity in the USSR. In part he was right, but external aggression united the entire people. Such is our dryness.
    1. t-12
      t-12 16 November 2020 16: 31
      +9
      In 1941 there was a military industry with a full production cycle. There were young people with badges with TRP and GSO badges. There was a belief in the progressiveness of communism and the Soviet system and an understanding of the inhumanity of Nazism. Those. it was clear what to fight for.

      Now there is almost nothing. The only trump card is atomic weapons.
      1. Old tanker
        Old tanker 16 November 2020 17: 24
        +4
        In sovremennoets war, industry does not play such a role as in the Second World War. The production cycle of modern technology is too long. Therefore, everything will be decided by the pre-war reserves. These are the modern realities .. Well, the TRP badges are still worn and even "Yunarmiya" is available. And this is not irony, since before the Second World War, not everyone was ready for work and defense. Well, there is also enough faith to rejoice. A Russian person fights for his homeland, whatever it may be, and it does not matter who is the head of the country. Not everyone loved Stalin, and neither did socialism. But these people stood up against the occupiers.
        1. t-12
          t-12 16 November 2020 18: 26
          0
          The production cycle of modern technology is too long.
          Too long for nuclear war. But if you think about conventional war, if we assume that the belligerents are afraid to use the last "nuclear trump card", then "not everything is so simple."

          The Russian man sometimes fights, and sometimes (the end of the First World War) escapes from the trenches. Sometimes he suffers hardships for the sake of a brighter future, and sometimes (the end of the USSR) he destroys the country for the sake of McDonald's. This, by the way, also concerns other peoples, Russians are not unique here.
          1. Old tanker
            Old tanker 16 November 2020 21: 26
            +2
            Even with conventional warfare with modern means of destruction, intensive hostilities will no longer last for years.
            1. t-12
              t-12 17 November 2020 16: 15
              0
              Well, here's the Karabakh war. Lasted 1,5 months. If the Armenians had a decent air defense system and a network of long-term fortifications (which cannot be pierced with an 8-kilogram "bayraktar" bomb), the war could last for months. If the Azerbaijanis wanted to occupy not only Karabakh, but the whole of Armenia, the war could last a year. If the warring parties were larger (say, Russia and Turkey), the war would drag on for several years. These are huge costs of bombs and missiles (with the need for reproduction), loss of ships and aircraft (with the need to replenish), hundreds of thousands of wounded military and civilians (with a corresponding load on hospitals).
              1. Old tanker
                Old tanker 17 November 2020 16: 56
                0
                The war in Karabakh is a low intensity conflict. Moreover, both sides took care of and did not use the most expensive weapons. Well, this conflict was not as violent as, for example, in Donbas. There, the most intense hostilities (near Idovaysk and Debaltseve) did not exceed a couple of weeks in both cases. And how much equipment was lost in these battles? That's it. A couple more weeks in the same impe and Ukraine would have been left without aircraft and tanks at all. Well, now consider here the production cycle of a modern tank and aircraft.
                Well, the war on 08.08.08 generally lasted only 5 days.
                1. t-12
                  t-12 17 November 2020 17: 30
                  0
                  What parrots do you measure "intensity" in? If we take the loss of people and equipment, then Karabakh is more or less comparable to the Donbass: several thousand dead. Only the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not have drones, and the militia had air defense, and the terrain was flat, that's all the differences. Official losses of Ukrainian armored vehicles - 1000 units in 10 months (before Minsk-2015), which corresponds to the losses of Armenian armored vehicles (150 units in 1,5 months). I am sure that a country of 30 million, like Ukraine, is quite capable (with a developed industry and stocks of raw materials) to produce / repair 100 armored vehicles per month. In 1944, the USSR produced 1000 T-34 tanks alone (not to mention other armored vehicles) per month.
                  1. Old tanker
                    Old tanker 17 November 2020 17: 48
                    0
                    The intensity of a military conflict is determined by the degree to which the strength of the armed forces is used in combat operations per unit of time, and not in parrots.
                  2. Old tanker
                    Old tanker 17 November 2020 17: 54
                    0
                    Even the US industry cannot afford to produce 100 modern main tanks per month. Well, repairs are different: current, medium and major. Even Russia cannot capitalize 100 tanks a month. Not like Ukraine. Read how many armored vehicles are purchased from their manufacturers by Ukraine per year and you will understand everything. All this equipment is after a major overhaul, and not newly produced.
                    1. t-12
                      t-12 17 November 2020 19: 09
                      -2
                      Losses of Ukrainian tanks, according to Lostarmor, 25 per month. And another 70 per month other equipment (BMP, armored personnel carrier, self-propelled guns) The release of 1 tank per day is quite a feasible task (for a developed industry; and not for what is now in Russia or Ukraine).

                      By the way, according to the plans of 2015, the Russian army was to receive 2020 Armata tanks by 2300. Those. planned production - 1,25 tanks per day. And this is in peacetime, without taking into account the mobilization deployment of industry.

                      According to Sienko, the state armament program provides for the delivery of the Armata army of 2300 units until the 2020 year, however, most likely, it will be adjusted in time: “The volumes will probably remain, but the period will shift to the 2025 year.”
                      1. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 17 November 2020 19: 13
                        +1
                        He seems to be an adult uncle, but he believes in fairy tales.
                        It is necessary to count not what someone promised to build, but how much is actually being built.
                      2. t-12
                        t-12 17 November 2020 19: 30
                        0
                        Oh well. Take the United States. During the year, 4000 JLTV armored vehicles were built i.e. 11 pieces per day.

                        For FY 2020 (1 October 2019 - 30 September 2020) the Pentagon's JLTV funding request totals US $ 1.641 billion, this to procure 2,530 vehicles for the Army, 1,398 for the Marines (with 3,986 more between FY2021 and FY2024)

                        This is roughly equivalent to 1 tank per day (when compared by price).

                        And I am sure that the United States has a mobilization plan, according to which, in the event of a war, the release of equipment increases significantly.
                      3. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 17 November 2020 19: 37
                        0
                        Why did you decide that it corresponds to 1 tank per day? Arguments? Give real examples of what country is now building 1 modern main tank per day from scratch.
                        You can pull anything by the ears. But reality will not change from this. Armenians, too, have been drawing their beliefs to reality for almost 30 years. As a result, only Russia was able to prevent their defeat.
                      4. t-12
                        t-12 17 November 2020 19: 57
                        -1
                        Now tanks are not built. The basis of the US ground forces is relatively cheap and massive armored vehicles. But before they built, and very quickly, about 1 "Abrams" per day:

                        Low initial rate production (LIRP) of the vehicle was approved on 7 May 1979. [4] In February 1982, General Dynamics Land Systems Division (GDLS) purchased Chrysler Defense, after Chrysler built over 1,000 M1s.

                        You can also (roughly) compare by price. The cost of the armored vehicle is 410 thousand dollars, the cost of the "Abrams" is 8,9 million dollars. We get that 11 armored vehicles per day corresponds to 0,5 tanks per day.
                      5. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 18 November 2020 06: 48
                        0
                        No need to build theories. We must live by the realities. But even if you follow your theories, then in modern conditions they build tanks, armored vehicles, etc., not to mention aircraft and air defense systems, much less per day than they are destroyed during that day during intense hostilities.
  • Fan-fan
    Fan-fan 16 November 2020 17: 21
    +5
    "external aggression has united the whole people"
    Well, now there is external aggression in the form of sanctions against our big officials - they were forbidden to travel to Europe and their accounts were frozen. But I still did not unite with the officials, but on the contrary was delighted.
    1. Old tanker
      Old tanker 16 November 2020 21: 32
      +3
      Very few of the common people have experienced these sanctions directly. And the majority of our people think that these sanctions did not touch our bourgeoisie. On the contrary, sanctions are used as an excuse for the inability to manage the economy competently. So the people do not perceive any obvious external aggression in the form of sanctions.
  • ultra
    ultra 16 November 2020 15: 58
    +2
    I think the author, to put it mildly, exaggerates the colors.
  • iouris
    iouris 16 November 2020 15: 58
    +4
    "And in the morning they woke up." Russia is always not ready for war. Nobody is ready for war. So it's time.
  • ZAV69
    ZAV69 16 November 2020 16: 07
    +2
    I wonder how Turkey has set its sights on Crimea? Is there that Crimea is not recognized? So no one recognized him. The fact that Turkey climbed into the Caucasus is quite logical, it has a common border with all the participants. The author shouted too loudly that everything was lost.
    1. iouris
      iouris 16 November 2020 16: 26
      -3
      Quote: ZAV69
      I wonder how Turkey has set its sights on Crimea?

      According to the agreement between Russia and the Ottoman Empire, if Russia leaves Crimea, then Crimea is Turkish. Because in Kiev, they shout, "Krymnash", and Erdogan has a project to recreate the New Ottoman Empire (moreover, on the ruins of the Russian Federation too).
      1. ZAV69
        ZAV69 16 November 2020 16: 48
        +5
        There is no longer either the Turkish Empire or the Russian. And about the wreckage of the Russian Federation .... Many people want it. But the RF does not break and that's it.
        1. iouris
          iouris 16 November 2020 20: 18
          0
          Quote: ZAV69
          There is no longer either the Turkish Empire or the Russian.

          ... but there is a contract. It remains to recreate the Ottoman Empire. As there old man Brzezinski taught our bosses:

          “Russia is a conquered power. She lost the titanic struggle. And to say “it was not Russia, but the Soviet Union” means to flee from reality. It was Russia, called the Soviet Union. She challenged the USA. She was defeated. Now there is no need to fuel illusions about the great power of Russia. It’s necessary to discourage such a way of thinking ... Russia will be fragmented and under guardianship. ”

          "A new world order with US hegemony is being created against Russia, at the expense of Russia and on the ruins of Russia."

          From the book “Choice. World domination or global leadership ”(Moscow, International Relations, 2010, p. 127):
          1. ZAV69
            ZAV69 17 November 2020 07: 53
            +2
            Well, Bzezhinsky taught it. But this is just his wishlist. Of course, we are walking along the edge, the problem is that there is foulbrood at the top, and partners support her in full. In 24, this whole toilet will seethe, and how it will end is unclear. They will probably try to arrange some kind of revolution for us.
      2. Ulysses
        Ulysses 16 November 2020 16: 52
        +1
        Erdogan can dream, only an impossible task for him.
        1. iouris
          iouris 16 November 2020 20: 21
          +1
          Erdogan does not dream, but acts. Moreover, under the guidance of competent mentors from MI6. Google
          "The Secret Intelligence Service of the British Foreign Office", (SIS / MI-6) (English Secret Intelligence Service, SIS / Military Intelligence, MI6) - the service of the British foreign policy ". There is a very interesting leader there today.
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 16 November 2020 16: 09
    11
    Young people come from the army. Some for a year, some for a year and a half. They almost did not shoot, they only saw grenades in the movies. It's funny, they can't open a tin can with a knife. I ask: "Did you even peel the potatoes?
    -No, we had civilian cooks.
    I will not talk about schools, technical schools, institutes, you yourself know what kind of CWP training there is. Interceded for a passer-by, a child, a girl from a bully, rapist, robber. You will be jailed for real, and the bully will be put on probation !! If someone thinks that this is how men are being prepared for the war for the Motherland, then it is simply "uneducated". I think Putin has a police state. Capable of suppressing the protests of the hungry and the disaffected. Putin has been preparing for this for 20 years. And I'm ready, I think. If the elections are faked in a blatant, YouTube is full of videos. Hard workers will not fight for this power. Only for the Motherland! But for this it is necessary to remove the inner uneducated. I am for the free sale of weapons, as in the USA !!
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 17 November 2020 23: 14
      +2
      Quote: steel maker
      I think Putin has a police state.


      Duc takes an example from the USA. Moreover, our "police state" is no match for their police state ... Flimsy and thinner ...
  • dmitriyruss
    dmitriyruss 16 November 2020 16: 12
    -6
    Smacks of 282 tbsp. UK. and in 1904 and 1914 and in 1941 those were completely different situations. Author - Alexander Samsonov, stop posting defeatist articles
  • Chessmaster97
    Chessmaster97 16 November 2020 16: 12
    +4
    What nonsense have I just read ... what kind of war are we not ready for, or that we again “lost” some war without even showing up for it?
    What does 1905 and 1914 have to do with it? Where did the author see the Ottoman Empire in today's Turkey?
    In short, another article about the fact that today the Motherland is dying especially badly.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 19: 42
      +1
      Quote: Chessmaster97
      What nonsense have I just read ... what kind of war are we not ready for, or that we again “lost” some war without even showing up for it?


      That's for sure. By the way, the author should have known that from the 15th year to the beginning of this, the RF Armed Forces received at least 2300 small-class drones sharpened for solving reconnaissance tasks, issuing control points and adjusting artillery and missile fire. That in each MRBR there is already a state-owned detachment of unmanned aircraft. A male-class UAV of the notorious Bayraktar type is quite amazed by any modern air defense system. And the fact that attack UAVs are not at all a wunderwaffe, because "shock" leads to a sharp increase in visibility and, consequently, a decrease in the survival rate of UAVs in the front zone.
  • U-58
    U-58 16 November 2020 16: 13
    +6
    Sadly, the author is right.
    His point of view is an alternative response to the cheerful statements of the authorities and the media affiliated with it about the wisdom of our leadership, about some strategic victories achieved by dexterous maneuvering in acute situations.
    The loss of Russia's geostrategic initiative in all areas is evident.
    From Moldova and Transnistria to Belarus.
    From the Balkans to the Caucasus. From Kiev to Astana.
    On the queue - the Far East ..
    The Turks are literally driving us across the table with their muzzles, either through a gas pipeline, in Libya and Syria, and now in the Caucasus.
    And we notify Erdogan about the coup, we sell him the most modern air defense system, let millions of tourists visit him.
    And he, in a grateful response, enters into an alliance with Kiev to reject Crimea.
    Our most supreme guarantor (something there) either forgot how to show his teeth and beat strangers, or due to age and fatigue, he decided to hold on to retirement as calmly as possible, without burdening himself with the struggle for Russia's international influence.
    But with retirees he does it dashingly ..
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 November 2020 16: 34
      -5
      Quote: U-58
      The loss of Russia's geostrategic initiative in all areas is evident.

      And when did Russia own the initiative?
      Quote: U-58
      His point of view is an alternative response to the cheerful statements of the authorities and the media affiliated with it about the wisdom of our leadership,

      In other words - a delusional reaction to media delirium? ))
      1. U-58
        U-58 16 November 2020 16: 41
        0
        Or maybe a sober assessment of media delirium?
        We had the initiative in 1944-45
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 November 2020 17: 05
          -4
          Quote: U-58
          Or maybe a sober assessment of media delirium?

          do not make me laugh. An analyst from Samsonov is like wallpaper from pipifax. Where is the sobriety in his whining?
          Quote: U-58
          We had the initiative in 1944-45

          and what events preceded this to you remind? And the price at the same time?
          1. U-58
            U-58 16 November 2020 17: 29
            +3
            Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. Again we roll, we roll until we roll, so that later "at the cost of incredible efforts, unparalleled heroism and great sacrifices" ...
            As for the author's personalities, I huch Samsonov, huch Goliaths or Apollo, it does not matter if I agree with the content.
        2. Old tanker
          Old tanker 16 November 2020 17: 32
          -1
          Yeah, especially in 41st and even 42nd. Do not remember what year the turning point in the Second World War came and when the initiative passed to us?
  • Tagan
    Tagan 16 November 2020 16: 16
    0
    Not an article, but solid snot. For whom is the paper dirty?
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Rudkovsky
      Rudkovsky 16 November 2020 16: 24
      10
      What was done under Putin will be assessed by the descendants of nothing more than the next stage of the collapse of the country and its plundering. The only thing that was done well under Putin was the scenery of well-being, it's a pity that even good decorations are still decorations.
      1. Nasrat
        Nasrat 16 November 2020 16: 41
        -7
        Quote: Rudkovsky
        What was done under Putin will be assessed by the descendants of nothing more than the next stage of the collapse of the country and its plundering. The only thing that was done well under Putin was the scenery of well-being, it's a pity that even good decorations are still decorations.

        But don't give a damn about Putin ... If you are a serious journalist, write thoroughly ... and not these superficial articles, the purpose of which is to say in the end that Putin is not a good person ... ... But if he were good, he would have pulled this Samsonov up ... laughing
        1. Rudkovsky
          Rudkovsky 16 November 2020 16: 48
          +3
          Is Putin a good man?
          1. Nasrat
            Nasrat 16 November 2020 19: 11
            0
            Quote: Rudkovsky
            Is Putin a good man?

            If I wrote it, I would be good, I would have pulled this Samsonov on a rack. wassat
        2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 November 2020 17: 07
          -2
          Quote: Nasr
          If you are a serious journalist

          this, sorry, who are you talking about?
    2. cmax
      cmax 16 November 2020 18: 29
      +1
      Quote: Nasr
      For me, the title gave the author ... The author's crazy articles are growing like mushrooms ... Whatever the author writes about, the main thing is to spoil everything that was done under Putin, Putin, during Putin's rule ...
      I advise the author not to write many letters - just a title (any) and a conclusion - Putin is to blame ...
      The main thing that amazes me about the author is that he absolutely does not understand the topic, is absolutely not competent in the question about which he writes - but draws conclusions !!!!

      In general, VO is just empty ... which is being driven in a circle .. crisis of the genre ..

      Noooooo Santa Claus is to blame!
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 16 November 2020 16: 27
    +1
    So what does the author call for?
    An anti-constitutional coup?
    Ideology is prohibited by the Constitution.
    And the project of the country's future, for the absence of which the author is crying, is an ideology.
    Those. our country is obviously doomed to be a "vegetable". And the fate of vegetables is known, either to rot or to be eaten.
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 16 November 2020 16: 35
    0
    Is it possible that another round of history will end in a basement?