Military Review

Second battle on the Kosovo field

169
Second battle on the Kosovo field

From a previous article ("Crusaders against the Ottoman Empire: the last campaign") you learned about the tragic battle at Varna, which ended in the defeat of the Christian army. Many contemporaries (both Muslims and Christians) believed that the reason for the failure of the crusaders and the death of the king of Poland and Hungary, Vladislav III, was the perjury of this monarch, who violated the peace treaty, the terms of which he promised to abide by putting his hand on the Gospel.


After the victory at Varna (1444), Sultan Murad II in 1446 devastated and ruined the Peloponnese (Morea), then about 60 thousand people were taken into slavery.

But the talented Hungarian commander Janos Hunyadi was still alive.


Monument to Janos Hunyadi, Budapest

In 1448, he expelled Vlad III Tepes, who ascended the throne of Wallachia with Turkish help (the same one who became the prototype of Count Dracula in Bram Stoker's book), and was now preparing for another campaign against the Ottomans. Moreover, he had an ally in Albania - the passionary leader Georgy Kastrioti.

They said that he alone personally killed three thousand Turks and that he could cut two opponents at once with one blow of his sword. Or - simultaneously cut off the head of a wild boar with one scimitar and the head of a bull with another. And the Ottomans called him "The Dragon of Albania".


He is much better known under the nickname Skanderbeg. Skanderbeg's helmet was decorated with the head of a goat - not a lion, an eagle, or, at worst, a wild buffalo. The legend explains her appearance on the helmet as follows: in his youth, the hero was blocked by the Turks on the top of a barren mountain, but survived by feeding on the milk of a mountain goat he had tamed. This legend puts Skanderbeg on a par with the epic heroes of antiquity, referring the knowledgeable reader even to the myth of Zeus and the goat Amalfei who nursed him.


Skanderbeg's helmet and sword, art museum, Vienna

The life and fate of Skanderbeg will be described in the next article: from it you can find out how and why the hot Albanian guy got this “Nordic” nickname.

The new Pope Nicholas V, who tried to organize another Crusade, also acted as an ally of Hunyadi and Skanderbeg.


Paus Nicolaas V door Peter Paul Rubens

With the Crusade, nothing happened, but Hunyadi and Kastrioti decided to give another big battle to the Ottoman Empire. The great warrior of Albania was in a hurry to join the army of the great Hungarian commander, but they failed to meet.

Despot of Serbia Georgy Brankovic


From the article "Crusaders against the Ottoman Empire: the last campaign" do you remember that in 1444 the despot of Serbia Georgy Brankovic refused to allow the crusaders to cross their lands. He did the same now, banning Kastrioti from entering Serbia. Moreover, they say that he informed about the movement of the army of Hunyadi Sultan Murad II, who at that time was besieging the Albanian city of Kruja. As a result, the Albanian troops could not arrive on time, and on the Kosovo field Hunyadi saw not allies, but a Turkish army ready for battle. It was the actions of Georgy Brankovich that possibly predetermined the new defeat of the Christian army. Looking ahead, let's say that Kastrioti, in revenge, then ravaged the possessions of the Serbian despot.

Serbs, justifying George, often say that he defended the Orthodox faith: who closely collaborated with the papal legates and allied crusaders, cardinals Hunyadi, allegedly wanted Serbia to be Catholic.


Karol Lotz. John Hunyadi

And Sultan Murad II was religiously tolerant, and the following words are attributed to him in a folk song:

“You have built a mosque and a church
Right next to each other
Who wants to go to the mosque
Who wants to go to the church opposite. "


Portrait of Sultan Murad II

On the eve of the battle


So, the Ottoman and Christian armies again, as in 1389, met in the Kosovo field.


Kosovo field

Kosovo Field (the name comes from the word "kos" - blackbird) is a narrow hilly plain located in an intermountain basin near the city of Pristina. Now it is located on the territory of the state of Kosovo, unrecognized by Serbia and a number of other countries.


Kosovo field on the map of the unrecognized state of Kosovo

The divergence of opinions about the forces of the parties in the Second Battle of the Kosovo Field is very large. Different authors determine the size of the Ottoman army from 50 thousand to 400 thousand people, the Christian - from 24 thousand to 90 thousand people. They agree on one thing: the numerical superiority was on the side of the Ottomans. But at the same time, many report that never before has Hunyadi been able to assemble such a large and powerful army under his command. In addition to the Hungarians, it included Poles, Transylvanians, Vlachs, as well as hired German and Czech shooters from "handguns" - "handguns".
It should be said that in those years, the Ottomans invariably executed all the mercenaries who were captured by them. On the one hand, this frightened off some of the candidates, but those who nevertheless decided to be recruited for the war with the Turks did not surrender and fought to the end.


Janos Hunyadi on the Hungarian stamp

According to legend, the leaders of the opposing sides exchanged the following messages:
Hunyadi wrote:

"I do not have as many warriors as you have, there are fewer of them, but they are all good warriors, steadfast, loyal and courageous."



Janos Hunyadi

The Sultan replied:
"I would rather have a full quiver of common arrows than six or seven gold-plated arrows."


Murad II, sultan der osmanen, Austrian National Library

Murad II did not "reinvent the wheel" and deployed his troops in the same way as in the battle of Varna. In the center he stood himself with the janissaries and artillery. The left flank was formally led by his son Mehmed, but in fact it was commanded by the beylerbey of Rumelii Daiya Karadzha-bey. The striking force of this wing was heavy cavalry - sipahi (spahi). Akinji (light cavalry of the Ottomans) of the Rumelian bey Turakhan were also here.


Ottoman akinci at the Battle of Mohacs (1526), ​​Turkish miniature

On the right flank of the Ottoman army, units of the Anatolian cavalry were delivered - jabel, commanded by beylerbey Ozguroglu Isa-bey.

Hunyadi also placed his infantrymen (Germans and Czechs) in the center in front of Wagenburg, under whose protection they could retreat (they were also protected by large shields - paveses), and advanced cavalry units forward.

According to some reports, Murad II, before the battle, turned to Hunyadi with a peace proposal, but his conditions did not satisfy the Hungarian commander.

Second battle on the Kosovo field


This time, the battle on the Kosovo field lasted three days - from 17 to 19 October 1448. Both sides acted extremely carefully, not risking being the first to attack the enemy. On October 17, Ottoman and Christian troops fired at each other and set up positions. In the afternoon, Hunyadi nevertheless conducted reconnaissance in force, sending his cavalry to attack the enemy's flanks. These actions were not crowned with success.

On the same day, a "knightly duel" took place, the instigator of which was the unnamed Hungarian. His challenge was answered by the Ottoman warrior Elias, who managed to knock the enemy off his horse, but at the same time his saddle girth was torn and he could not continue the battle. The opponents returned to their positions, but the Ottomans considered their fighter the winner.

On the night of October 18, Hunyadi, on the advice of a defector, attacked the Ottoman camp, but this attempt was unsuccessful: the Janissaries, taken by surprise, quickly came to their senses and repulsed the attack.

The main events took place on 18 October. After several attacks, the Ottoman cavalry was able to press the right flank of the Christian army, and Turakhan's cavalry even bypassed it. But the outcome of the battle was not yet decided - until the Wallachians wavered: the ruler Vladislav II Daneshti agreed to go over to the side of the enemy. However, even after that, the Hunyadi army fought until evening, never leaving their positions. But it was clear that victory would no longer be possible, and therefore in the evening of that day Hunyadi began to prepare his troops for retreat.

On October 19, the last day of this battle, the Christian army began to retreat. It fell to the Germans and Czechs, who had taken refuge in Wagenburg, to cover the withdrawal of the main forces - and these soldiers, armed with handhelds, honestly fulfilled their duty: fighting fiercely, they inflicted great losses on the Ottomans and detained them.

The Ottomans recorded the first use of hand-tufts-tufts back in 1421, but until 1448 they remained “exotic” in the Turkish army. It was after the Second Battle of the Kosovo Field that Murad II ordered the rearmament of the Janissary corps. And in 1453, under the walls of Constantinople, the Byzantines saw already armed with a gunshot weapons janissary.

All Czech and German soldiers of Wagenburg were killed, but the losses of the rest of the army were extremely great - both in previous battles and during the retreat. Antonio Bonfini wrote that there were more corpses in the Sitnitsa River then than fish. And Mehmed Neshri reported:

"Mountains and rocks, fields and desert - everything was filled with the dead."

Most authors agree that the Christians lost about 17 thousand people, and many commanders died: Hungary lost most of the country's upper nobility. Now this country was drained of blood, and there were almost no forces left to resist the Ottoman onslaught.

During the retreat, Hunyadi was detained by the despot of Serbia Georgy Brankovic, who released him only after receiving a ransom of 100 thousand ducats (Serbian historians insist that this was not a ransom, but compensation for the damage caused to their country by the army of Hunyadi).
The betrayal of the Volokhs did not go unpunished: Sultan Murad II did not trust them, and after the victory ordered the Rumeli akinji Turakhan Bey to kill about 6 thousand people. The rest were released after Lord Vladislav II Daneshti agreed to pay tribute and supply soldiers on demand.

Janos Hunyadi will still fight the Turks: in 1454 he will throw back the troops of Sultan Mehmed II from the Danube fortress of Smederevo, and in 1456 he will break the river flotilla Turks and will defeat the Ottoman army that was besieging Belgrade (Nandorfehervar). During the battle for Belgrade, even Sultan Mehmed II the Conqueror was wounded.


Janos Hunyadi in a medieval drawing

But in the same year, this commander died of the plague, and the ruler of Wallachia, Vlad III Tepes, gave a feast for the bishops and boyars on this occasion, at the end of which all the guests were put on stakes.

After the death of Janos Hunyadi, the ruler of Albania, Georgy Kastrioti, had no combat-ready allies. He continued to fight successfully, defeating one Ottoman army after another, but his heroic resistance was of a local nature and could not prevent Ottoman expansion. Already in 1453, 5 years after the Second Battle of the Kosovo Field, Constantinople fell under the blows of the Ottomans, and this was not a victory for Murad II (who died, as we remember, in 1451), but his son Mehmed.

The fall of Constantinople was the beginning of the heyday of the Ottoman Empire, its "Golden Age". Historians tend to believe that it was then, under Mehmed II, that the Ottoman state received the right to be called an empire. Since then, for many decades, the Turkish fleet has dominated the Mediterranean Sea, having won many brilliant victories, which were described in a series of articles about the Ottoman admirals and pirates of the Maghreb.


Great pirates who became admirals of the Ottoman Empire: Khair ad-Din Barbarossa, Turgut-reis, Sinan Pasha

The land forces of the empire reached Vienna. And in the Balkans, over time, peoples professing Islam appeared: Albanians, Bosniaks, Pomaks, Goranians, Torbeshi, Sredchane.

In the next article, we will talk about the great Albanian warrior Giorgi Kastrioti, better known as Skanderbeg, and his many years of war with the Ottomans.


Monument to Skanderbeg, Tirana
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  1. Sofa batyr
    Sofa batyr 5 November 2020 05: 57
    +5
    The new Pope Nicholas V, who tried to organize another Crusade, also acted as an ally of Hunyadi and Skanderbeg.

    These Popes, do not feed them with bread, but let them organize a Crusade to Palestine, to the Holy Sepulcher, despite the fact that the Ottomans had already cut out Europe itself in full swing.
    1. Molot1979
      Molot1979 12 November 2020 09: 40
      0
      Is it okay that there were campaigns in Palestine in the 11-13 centuries, and Hunyadi and Skanderbeg lived already in the second half of the 15th? By that time, no crusades behind the Holy Sepulcher had been announced for a long time, and in general the crusaders were completely driven out of the Holy Land. And you are confusing two different historical periods.
  2. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 5 November 2020 06: 02
    18
    Great article! Excellent readability, Great illustrations! And again thanks to the Author Ryzhov V.A! We are waiting for the continuation good
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2020 06: 11
      12
      Traditionally, I join the Hunter. Valery bows deeply and thanks.
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 5 November 2020 06: 14
        +9
        Cote hi , the level of Quality of materials in the History section has significantly increased! Ugh, so as not to jinx it!
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2020 06: 30
          +8
          But only from two authors, Arthur and Eduard disappeared, Mikhail stopped writing. So in the long run, I'm afraid we will lose.
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 5 November 2020 15: 58
            +8
            Hello everybody! hi
            Vlad, "Arthur" is called Artyom. winked
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2020 16: 46
              +4
              I have Artem's personal permission to make a mistake! Although really not good, I confess. repeat
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 5 November 2020 16: 52
                +4
                It is indecent to lead comrades into temptation.
                Personal permission, I remember, assured. laughing
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2020 18: 29
                  +1
                  Quote: lexus
                  It is indecent to lead comrades into temptation.
                  Personal permission, I remember, assured. laughing

                  I did not understand this who stuck the cons in our friendly conversation?
                  1. Lexus
                    Lexus 5 November 2020 18: 31
                    +5
                    Vlad, what to take from them? They are very sick people. Moreover, in Russia
                    since ancient times it was not accepted to pay attention to the holy fools. wink
                    1. Astra wild2
                      Astra wild2 5 November 2020 20: 19
                      +3
                      Colleague Lexus, in all fairness, in Russia to refer to the blessed, if not with love, then with attention: Basil the Blessed, Ksenia Piterbuzhskaya, Blessed Matrona. It seems that the foolish Koreish lived at 19. He was revered.
                      And about the minus players. For me, these are three categories: a) minus for the sake of sports interest; b) "personal", they will "honor" someone with attention and pour as they see. Our "personal" minus players can boast of: Victor Nikolaevich, Mikhail "trilobite" and 2-3 more people; c,)
                      "Hamsters" as Viktor Nikolayevich puts it, they "drown" in the minuses all who violate their peace.
                      There may be other classifications, but I like mine
                      1. Lexus
                        Lexus 5 November 2020 20: 54
                        +2
                        Hello!
                        Born and raised in the USSR. When they paid attention to science and education. I have the opportunity to replenish my knowledge base with facts on my own and / or by contacting Dear colleagues for clarification. Therefore, he is relieved of the need to immerse himself in herd obscurantism and consume the "porridge" given out there. As for the wordless minus, let them wallow in their own "substance" at the foot of the evolutionary ladder. Only from them constantly "fonit" is unpleasant.
                      2. The leader of the Redskins
                        The leader of the Redskins 5 November 2020 21: 08
                        -1
                        Bravo, colleague. As for me, this is the best commentary of the whole day in all VO.
                      3. Lexus
                        Lexus 5 November 2020 21: 13
                        +7
                        Greetings! hi
                        I just tried to answer the question succinctly.
      2. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 5 November 2020 17: 26
        +2
        Vladislav, you and I think the same way: only Valery and Vyacheslav Olegovich keep the site up to the mark, and these: Malyutin is lowered into the mud. Kharluzhny, Samsonov CANNOT jump above his head.
        If, God forbid, they leave, then 50% of colleagues will also leave
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 5 November 2020 17: 38
          +3
          Astra on the feminine essence, superficial and kind, if these authors leave, then the site will leave ALL SENSE, who wants to slurp shit like yesterday?
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 5 November 2020 20: 23
            +1
            For Vladkub, are all women superficial or are there exceptions?
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 5 November 2020 17: 15
      +7
      Colleague Hunting expert, let me know "the level of Quality of materials in the History section has significantly increased" over what period of time are you talking about?
      I am sure that yesterday, after the article: "Rokossovsky's mistake", you would say something like this: "How low the level of Quality of materials in the History section has fallen." Yesterday there was one of the most SHAME materials in the History section. This material angered both the Stalinists and the monarchists, and this happens very rarely. With me this is the first time when both the monarchists and the Stalinists were in "the same trench", at least I don't remember that.
      If you selectively go to the site when the materials of Valery and Vyacheslav Olegovich, then of course: "the level has significantly increased"
      1. depressant
        depressant 5 November 2020 22: 51
        +1
        Astra, intrigued. I'll go read it)))
        1. depressant
          depressant 5 November 2020 23: 16
          +3
          I read it, looked through the comments. I remember that at the gatherings in our house, the veterans pronounced the name of Marshal Rokossovsky with a breath, with some special reverence. Malyutin's article is really strange, speculation.
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 6 November 2020 19: 08
            +1
            Lyudmila Yakovlevna, "conjecture" - still politely said
      2. Kwas
        Kwas 8 November 2020 18: 41
        0
        Quote: Astra wild2
        Yesterday there was one of the most SHAME stories in the History section. This material angered both the Stalinists and the monarchists, and this happens very rarely. With me this is the first time when both the monarchists and the Stalinists were in "the same trench", at least I don't remember that

        Pancake! For many years now I have been tormented so that this could unite all patriots, "from Stalinists to monarchists." So here it is - a unifying mmm ... substance!
  • napalm
    napalm 11 November 2020 17: 36
    +1
    Great article! Excellent readability, Great illustrations! And again thanks to the Author Ryzhov V.A! We are waiting for the continuation
    I totally agree, great. We are waiting for the continuation.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 5 November 2020 06: 09
    +9
    Skanderbeg is a legendary person.

    The modern circle of kings and military leaders is also interesting, who today look at us as monuments from pedestals.
    1. Sofa batyr
      Sofa batyr 5 November 2020 06: 13
      +8
      Quote: Korsar4
      Skanderbeg is a legendary person.


      Especially considering that he himself forced Dracula to flee, and he was also a guy not a mistake.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 5 November 2020 06: 41
        +6
        There were many things in his life.

        I presented a collection of monuments from the central squares of cities: a good company came out.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 5 November 2020 08: 35
      +5
      For some reason, the "Doomed City" with monuments wandering through the streets immediately came to mind.
      Hello, Sergey. hi
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 5 November 2020 09: 02
        +6
        They had to be separated from royalty from generals, mounted from foot.

        In the campaign to Skanderbeg, Salavat Yulaev is the first to appear.

        Good morning, Constantine!
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 5 November 2020 09: 53
          +6
          And where's the light of Pugachev to Emelka? True, there seems to be no monument to him.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 5 November 2020 13: 17
            +7
            And where's the light of Pugachev to Emelka? True, there seems to be no monument to him.

            But in St. Petersburg we have two whole streets named after him ... Why two ... what and so it is! request
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 5 November 2020 13: 33
              11
              “Having freed himself from the cunning instrument, the cheerful young man had lunch in the Corner of Taste dining room and went to inspect the city. which he passed - there were two Soviet streets in the city. Much amazed at this circumstance, the young man found himself on the Lena events street ... "(C)
            2. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 5 November 2020 13: 55
              +8
              Quote: Pane Kohanku
              there are as many as two streets in St. Petersburg named after him

              Streets, streets ... Yes, at least some, but there are. But Peter III was not even dedicated to a lane. smile
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 5 November 2020 14: 02
                13
                But Peter III was not even dedicated to a lane.

                But you must? Peter has remained in our history a madman from madcap. There are only two monuments to him in the world, moreover, one author. One in the former Petershtadt, the other in Kiel.

                Here is our photo from Petershtadt, mine was taken in March last year. I also inserted it into the article.
                In general, if one more monument is erected to Peter, then only as the record holder for the number of impostors in Russian history. One of them was sitting in the Keksholm fortress (now Priozersk) without the right to communicate - a kind of "iron mask" in Russian. Was released personally by Tsar Alexander Pavlovich after a lengthy conversation. It seems that this secretary of some kind of Petr Fedorovich imagines himself ... Although the legends differ. But at least they just got it.
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 5 November 2020 14: 15
                  10
                  Nicholas hi ... It is difficult about Peter III, they wrote about his extravagances, his killers. But in my opinion, it was Catherine the treacherous who signed the contract with Frederick, and he just cleverly suggested. But this is purely IMHO
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 5 November 2020 14: 20
                    12
                    It is difficult about Peter III, they wrote about his extravagances, his killers.

                    Igor, as well as about his son! hi Too conflicting personalities were in the memory of the people ... Although Paul bribes me more .... Do you know who left the best memory of Paul? Old Believers. He allowed them to open their churches without return!
                    https://bigenc.ru/text/3041337
                    In 1800, by the decree of Paul I, the "Rules of Unity" were approved, which established the parishes of the same faith of the Old Believers, subordinate to the diocesan and synodal authorities (co-religionists could not have their own bishops). Uniform churches were opened in St. Petersburg (1799), Moscow (1801) and other places.
                    Therefore, after the murder, the Old Believers fervently prayed for the repose of the sovereign ... hi
                2. Mihaylov
                  Mihaylov 5 November 2020 17: 24
                  +4
                  One of them was sitting in the Kexholm fortress (now - Priozersk)

                  Greetings Nikolay, a couple of weeks ago I was in Kexholm, I haven't been there for a long time, the last time was twenty years ago, they brought everything there in a decent state, which pleases.
                  I took a photo of very cute halberds:
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 5 November 2020 18: 27
                    +4
                    My regards!
                    Not all, of course, halberds, but the photo is valid! Even the exposure to the subject turned out!
                    1. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 5 November 2020 18: 37
                      +4
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      Not all, of course, halberds, but the photo is valid! Even the exposure to the subject turned out!

                      Good evening, on the plate two of them were listed as "Halberd of the German Guards of the time of Frederick I" and Halberd of non-commissioned officer arr. 1731 and another one as "Biel" (causa) or a kind of European halberd. But to be honest, I'm not very strong in these halberds, protazans and espotons.
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 November 2020 18: 52
                        +3
                        First from below, partisan. Second, a guizarma, or maybe a glaive.
                      2. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 5 November 2020 19: 32
                        +5
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        First from below, partisan. Second, a guizarma, or maybe a glaive.

                        So it was on the plate (do not believe your eyes), and the first on the right was called "Russian halberd of the XNUMXth century"
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 November 2020 19: 57
                        +4
                        It's okay! You can ask Shpakovsky about the "top of the Sarmatian sword." That's another story ...
                      4. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 5 November 2020 20: 10
                        +4
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        It's okay! You can ask Shpakovsky about the "top of the Sarmatian sword." That's another story ...

                        Better to ask him about the "Blah of the forehead of the grenadier's cap of lower ranks and the officers of the Life Dragoon regiment of the Holstein troops 1756-1762" from the same museum:
                  2. Icelord
                    Icelord 6 November 2020 07: 31
                    +4
                    Guizarma, Anton. Here is the glaive
                    , but the guizarma and the bill are the same, but with the protazan they are completely past, but not the museum workers, but the one who in the Russian army called this a halberd
                  3. The comment was deleted.
                  4. The comment was deleted.
                  5. Icelord
                    Icelord 6 November 2020 07: 52
                    +4
                    Halberd non-commissioned officer
                  6. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 6 November 2020 08: 26
                    +3
                    Thanks! I confuse them all the time, I just can't remember.
                  7. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 10: 52
                    +5
                    Thanks! I confuse them all the time, I just can't remember.

                    The blade of a non-commissioned officer's halberd of the mid to second half of the 18th century is really confusing.
                    Here is a protazan (by that time they were no longer used):

                    Only the upper "crescent" on the blade.
                    And here is the halberd of the middle - the second half of the 18th century. Used by non-combatants. The officers were already flaunting with espontons then.

                    The blade is more complex in shape.
                    These are the subtleties that not everyone knows. Moreover, they are practically not shown in films.
              2. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 10: 47
                +4
                First from below, partisan. Second, a guizarma, or maybe a glaive.

                No, Anton! This is a non-commissioned officer's halberd from the 18th century - then they looked like that. Despite the fact that the upper crescent really resembles a protazan. In the Russian army, such was introduced last time by Pavel Petrovich. drinks
              3. Icelord
                Icelord 7 November 2020 04: 17
                +1
                Yes, Nikolay hi ... That's what it's called, but throw me a thunder if it's really a halberd)))
              4. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 7 November 2020 20: 12
                +1
                That's what it's called, but throw me a thunder if it's really a halberd)))

                Vera, that is how it was called in the second half - the end of the 18th century. yes
                True, this weapon is shown only in one film (in my memory) - "Poor, Poor Pavel". Take a closer look at the line of soldiers - it rises another meter. The blades, you can immediately see - remake-props - not that shape ... But the officers - indeed, espontons.
                "You saw? This is a selected company of my Gatchina residents! Take as a sample ... " - Paul I.
              5. Icelord
                Icelord 7 November 2020 21: 12
                +1
                I am not Faith smile And yes, that's exactly what it was called, I already wrote it. But it's not a halberd it's all the same smile
              6. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 9 November 2020 10: 46
                +1
                I am not Vera smile And yes, that's exactly what it was called, I already wrote it. But it's not a halberd it's all the same

                h-damn ... Igor, excuse me generously - on a blurry eye, a nickname, as Astra Wild read ... wassat drinks
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 11: 04
    +3
    Greetings Nikolay, a couple of weeks ago I was in Kexholm

    Sergei, I still want to go there, I have never been to the fortress. Photo and discussion - class! drinks
    And I really read about the secret prisoner not so long ago.
    1. Mihaylov
      Mihaylov 6 November 2020 11: 28
      +4
      Quote: Pane Kohanku
      Sergei, I still want to go there, I have never been to the fortress. Photo and discussion - class!

      Good morning Nikolai, go by all means, since now it is a maximum of an hour and a half on a good road. Compared to the 90s, when I was there the last time, everything looks very decent:


      Another tank, more precisely a self-propelled gun, was placed in front of the museum, before the IS-3 stood there, and the Hypericum was added.

    2. Mihaylov
      Mihaylov 6 November 2020 11: 33
      +4
      Quote: Pane Kohanku
      And I really read about the secret prisoner not so long ago.

      To be honest, I hadn’t heard about the secret prisoner before, I just remember that the Pugachev family was kept in the tower, which is why it was named Pugachevskaya. It contains my favorite exhibit - the Petrovsky Gate:



      The gate, lined with Swedish cuirass, which was taken from captured Swedes, is said to be the largest "cluster" of Swedish cuirass in the world. I remember earlier they still hung on hinges, now they were put as an exhibit in the Pugachev Tower. It's good that nothing was done to them in the 90s. Someone told me that the Swedes offered good money for them, but perhaps these are just rumors.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 6 November 2020 12: 49
        +1
        Hello, Sergey hi .
        The gate, lined with Swedish cuirass,

        Here is an example of the judicious use of trophy iron. wink
        Practical people have always found application in purely military subjects in peaceful life.
        Disused cannons in the "post" of the mooring bollard.

      2. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 6 November 2020 14: 08
        +3
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Practical people have always found application in purely military subjects in peaceful life.

        Good afternoon Constantine,
        you can, for example, cast the steps of a temple from a trophy weapon ...
        I also have a question for you (today my "inquisitive mind" decided to torture everyone with questions): I was once in the town of Chalkida on Evia in a fortress with the beautiful name of Karababa and photographed 2 cannons there:



        As I understand it, these are some kind of Russian ship cannons, apparently from the 19th century?
        Do you know by chance where and how they got there? There seems to be a Russian naval base on Poros nearby, maybe from there?
      3. Catfish
        Catfish 6 November 2020 14: 25
        +5
        ... you can, for example, cast the steps of a temple from a trophy weapon ...

        It is impossible, this is already transcendental insanity!
        And the guns - yes, judging by the wingrad, the XNUMXth century, but how they got there I have absolutely no idea. You better contact our Vic Nick, you can also in a personal, he is a responsive man, if there is information, he will share. smile drinks
      4. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 15: 32
        +3
        And the guns - yes, judging by the wingrad, the XNUMXth century, but how they got there I have absolutely no idea.

        Easy. Taking into account the fact that our three came to fight against the Turks in the Mediterranean from 1769 to 1829 (not counting the campaign of Ushakov under Paul!) - the guns could get into any expedition. Fortunately, helping the Greeks is a "holy cause", for the guns will be used against the geopolitical enemy - the Ottomans. hi
      5. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 6 November 2020 19: 49
        +1
        Good evening Nikolai. "Against the geopolitical enemy of the Ottomans", and there have been cases when the enemy beats you with his own weapon.
        The last example is "the first Chichenskaya": there was an order to allocate tanks to the legal authority of Zavgaev, and then these same tanks attacked ours.
        The weapon has the ability to change the owner many times
      6. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 22: 12
        +2
        The last example is "the first Chichenskaya": there was an order to allocate tanks to the legal authority of Zavgaev, and then these same tanks attacked ours.

        it's generally better not to remember. For example, I live a kilometer from the bridge to them. A. Kadyrova. and tomorrow I'll go fishing there ...
        Good evening Nikolai. "Against the geopolitical enemy of the Ottomans", and there have been cases when the enemy beats you with his own weapon.

        The sweet-voiced minstrel knight Anton and I filmed an interesting piece of artillery last July in the park near the Artillery Museum. A French cannon, delivered to the Turks (against us!), And captured by our own. On the trunk - royal lilies, and at the same time - Arabic script. And there is a large dent mark in the same place, on the metal of the barrel - apparently, ours drove a cannonball. angry
        Therefore, it is not the weapon itself that is dangerous, but the one to whom it fell. hi
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 6 November 2020 11: 38
    +4
    The museum is small, but there are several interesting exhibits:


    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 12: 00
      +5
      The museum is small, but there are several interesting exhibits:

      Intrigued, Sergei! Every time I look at your photos with pleasure! good drinks
      Is the uniform next to Suvorov's portrait "Pavlovsky"?
    2. Mihaylov
      Mihaylov 6 November 2020 12: 05
      +2
      Quote: Pane Kohanku
      Is the uniform next to Suvorov's portrait "Pavlovsky"?

      The signature reads: Uniform of an infantry officer of the Russian army, 1730s. "
      And as for halberds, the question is: how can we identify them correctly?
    3. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 12: 25
      +4
      Uniform of an infantry officer of the Russian army, 1730s "

      So I think. At the Pavlovskys, it seems, the coattails were turned up.
      And as for halberds, the question is: how can we identify them correctly?

      Very simply, if you take the European armies of the 17th century, and the army of Peter I, then the sergeants' halberds were with an ax-shaped blade. In the seventeenth century, the confusion with the officer's weapons - in some armies they are protazed, in others - already espontons. Also, the officer's distinctive mark was a scarf over his shoulder and a gorget around his neck. Peter introduced the protazan with an officer's weapon - we, in principle, began to build the European-style army later than everyone else. In France, for example, the officers already had espontons. The Swedes, it seems, too.
      Here are Peter's officers. With protazans.

      The sergeant's halberd from the mid-to-late 18th century is an already complex blade that resembles the upper part of a partisan. The officers are rearmed with espontons, and their insignia is a scarf around the belt. Well, and gorget - where without him. And then, officers of some units were not entitled to espontons. Here's an example. Far left - grenadier officer - no esponton. The sergeant is next - a halberd (with a protasanoid blade). In the center - a musketeer officer - he has an esponton.

      But the Germans - 1780. Both the officer and the non-commissioned officer are visible - to the right, in the distance.

      The biggest problem is very little information. Even Beheim is lying in his book.
      In our country in the 18th century there was a whole leapfrog with the "status weapon" - it was taken, then removed. We need to leaf through Viskovatov ...
      Halberds and scythes were finally removed from our army sometime after Friedland ... The non-commissioned officer of the early 19th century had a halberd.
    4. Mihaylov
      Mihaylov 6 November 2020 12: 34
      +2
      Quote: Pane Kohanku
      Very simply, if you take the European armies of the 17th century, and the army of Peter I, then the sergeants' halberds were with an ax-shaped blade.

      That is, it turns out that the far right is a Russian halberd with an ax-shaped blade of the 17th century, the far left is a non-commissioned officer’s halberd of the 18th century, the second from the left is a gizarma (aka bilge) - right? And the second from the right?
    5. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 12: 38
      +3
      the far right is a Russian halberd with an ax-shaped blade 17c

      quite possible. Or not Russian. If Russian, then the late 17th - early 18th century - during the Northern War.
      the far left is a non-commissioned officer halberd from the 18th century

      mid-second half of the 18th century.
      the second from the left is the guizarma (aka bill) - right

      exactly!
      And the second from the right?

      Also a halberd, possibly from the early 18th century. But whose - I do not know.
    6. Mihaylov
      Mihaylov 6 November 2020 12: 41
      +2
      Quote: Pane Kohanku
      Also a halberd, possibly from the early 18th century. But whose - I don't know

      Signed as "Saxon Halberd" (German Guards Halberd of the time of Frederick I) - so in the tablet.
    7. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 12: 56
      +2
      Signed as "Saxon Halberd" (German Guards Halberd of the time of Frederick I) - so in the plate

      I think that's right, the shape of the blade is the same - Frederick I ruled at the turn of the 17-18 centuries. drinks
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 6 November 2020 19: 35
    +1
    Colleagues, good evening. Today is a nightmare day: there is NOT ANY MATERIAL in "History"!
    It's just HAPPINESS that Valery was there yesterday.
    P
    S.
    Now I looked at all these: halberds, protozans, Lord, how neglected everything is: shake the two-meter shaft, and the current officers get it to have a smaller pistol. That would be fun: if the current officers were given such halberds. I'm afraid they will curse everything and everyone in the world.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 22: 07
    +2
    Now I looked at all these: halberds, protozans, Lord, how neglected everything is: shake the two-meter shaft, and the current officers get it to have a smaller pistol. That would be fun: if the current officers were given such halberds. I'm afraid they will curse everything and everyone in the world.

    Vera, in our army in the 18th century there were hells kapets, how many times they were taken and removed from service. It was precisely that status weapon that distinguished officers and non-commissioned officers. In battle, it was possible for them to align the formation, and hit the alarmist's ass with a shaft. And at the same time - to unload the foe from the horse, if necessary. angry Because then (17-18 centuries) only a brave but stupid "Captain Allatriste" climbed into the first row with a skewer - there was no place for him there, only if the cemetery was wholesale! negative For the first line was then formed by long blades - first pikes, then bayonets. hi
  • Icelord
    Icelord 7 November 2020 07: 03
    +1
    Two, halberds, a guizarma, she is a bill, and a non-commissioned officer's halberd, which is so called, but not a halberd in fact
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 5 November 2020 18: 21
    +3
    Good evening Nikolai, about the monuments, Valery may be offended, but for me Peter 3 is DESERT, and Pavel is brighter in character with intellect
  • vladcub
    vladcub 5 November 2020 20: 56
    +2
    Nikolay, greetings. For me, Peter-Ulrich needs only one monument: a buffoon's cap on his head and a violin. ALL of his essence is here
  • vladcub
    vladcub 5 November 2020 17: 50
    +5
    Good evening Mikhail, the "Petratretevtsev" have replenishment. Earlier Valery was sad about him, and now you?
    Out of contradiction, why is Peter-Ulrich better than Paul, Anna Ioanovna and all subsequent monarchs?
    PS
    Petersburgers, I do not really know the material, but until 1917 you didn’t have monuments to everyone? And now, in my opinion, are: Peter, Alexander 1 and Alexander 3?
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 November 2020 18: 14
      +4
      Petersburgers, I do not really know the material, but until 1917 you didn’t have monuments to everyone? And now, in my opinion, are: Peter, Alexander 1 and Alexander 3?
      Stood, Vlad.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 5 November 2020 20: 58
        +3
        Good evening, did everyone stand there?
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 November 2020 21: 13
          +3
          Everyone except Paul.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 10: 59
            +2
            Everyone except Paul.

            If you count the suburbs, then there were also Pavel - in Pavlovsk and Gatchina. soldier
    2. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 5 November 2020 18: 37
      +6
      Quote: vladcub
      And now, in my opinion, are: Peter, Alexander 1 and Alexander 3?

      Peter - definitely is, but not one or two, of course.
      Catherine II - definitely there. It stands in Katka's Garden (Ostrovsky Square) - at one time our St. Petersburg LGBT activists gathered there, although in those days they were simply called 3,14 daras.
      Nicholas I on St. Isaac's Square, on the other side of St. Isaac's Cathedral from the Bronze Horseman - there is. ("D-urak catches up with the clever, but Isaac interferes")
      The monument to Alexander III was removed from somewhere relatively recently (Oh! Long time ago!). "There is a chest of drawers ..."
      The rest of the monarchs, as far as I know, did not survive the revolution. I don’t remember whether someone was reinstated or not.
      A monument to Pavel Petrovich stands in Gatchina.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 November 2020 19: 19
        +6
        At one time, our St. Petersburg LGBT activists gathered there, although in those days they were simply called 3,14daras.
        Before that, they played chess there. For money.
        1. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 5 November 2020 19: 41
          +5
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Before that, they played chess there. For money.

          There was such a thing, I don't know if they are playing now, and there were quite high level players. My friend played chess quite well (he was a first-grade student) and sat down out of interest to play, said that he was made like a child, and everything according to the classics: first he succumbed, then give another party, etc.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 November 2020 20: 02
            +6
            Grandfathers, "St. Petersburg" katals "" high level, retired.
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 5 November 2020 20: 04
          +5
          There was a chess club on Zhelyabov - the oldest in the country, by the way. I don't know if I stayed now. This is where the masters came from. I remember playing for five or ten minutes per game. There were such old-fashioned monsters moving the pieces so that I didn't even have time to understand what had happened, and they already had a pawn endgame on the board. The audience - the same old people or a little younger groan: "Here tse-de he went in vain, it was necessary to push the f-seven." For me it was some kind of magic ... I was about ten then, my parents came to St. Petersburg and stopped with my father to see how they played. I already knew the rules then, I thought I would understand something. smile
          I remember that the men were waiting for some kind of Mark, the name was painfully catchy, I would have a friend by the name of Markov ... And now I'm thinking if Taimanov himself was expected ...
          1. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 5 November 2020 20: 16
            +5
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            I remember that the men were waiting for some kind of Mark, the name was painfully catchy, I would have a friend by the name of Markov ... And now I'm thinking if Taimanov himself was expected ...

            It is possible, but it seems my friend was not even a first-class, but I don’t remember exactly, he even studied at a sports university for a year at the chess department, that is, “he was a little skillful,” but said that according to his feelings, grandfather played at the level of a grandmaster
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 November 2020 20: 17
            +5
            They were waiting for Bobby Fischer! There is a St. Petersburg legend in which old men from the Katka Garden dream of cheating Fischer.
          3. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 5 November 2020 20: 42
            +6
            There is a legend that he was stripped there like a boy. I heard this later, until the third year the boy studied with us - a master of sports in these matters. So he initiated us into chess folklore. And one teacher was also an avid chess player, in my opinion, later he even got a grand master. Here is a classmate and said that in the late 80s Fischer came incognito to St. Petersburg and arranged a session in Katka's kindergarten and here, they say, they rolled him into smoke, and then he treated everyone who won against him in the Metropole. smile
            And what, a normal legend, is quite in the spirit of Peter ... smile
          4. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 5 November 2020 20: 48
            +5
            And that, a normal legend, quite in the spirit of Peter ..

            Legends of Nevsky Prospect ...
          5. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 5 November 2020 20: 53
            +5
            Weller did not come across this. smile
          6. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 November 2020 21: 07
            +6
            So St. Petersburg legends, they are not static. They live their own lives and are overgrown with details that were not there ... And those details that were, become a legend, and again overgrow with details ...
          7. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 5 November 2020 21: 09
            +6
            Yes it's true. smile
            The legends that arose in our childhood are now completely different, although they have remained the same. smile
          8. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 November 2020 21: 29
            +6
            Well, I'm a "come in large numbers here" ... And I absorbed all the legends, like a sponge, trying to be "more local" "indigenous".
          9. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 5 November 2020 21: 41
            +5
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            come in large numbers

            I am still "not arrived" ... laughing
            What to take from us, village ... request smile
          10. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 November 2020 21: 51
            +5
            Alas, for us, this city is growing, according to our abilities. He will never love us as we love him.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 5 November 2020 22: 29
    +4
    In Moscow, he played blitz, in the Central School on Gogolevsky. With Petrosyan and Vasyukov.

    There are many blitz legends in St. Petersburg. Chepukaitis alone is worth something.
  • VLR
    5 November 2020 22: 57
    +6
    There is a legend that the father of Suleiman the Magnificent - Selim, being the governor in Trabzon, in the clothes of a wanderer, visited the Persian shah Ismail, who did not refuse anyone who wanted to play chess with him - and won 1000 gold coins from him. But the main goal was not a game, but intelligence: he believed that he would have to fight.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 5 November 2020 21: 05
    +3
    Michael, I recognize only "classical" Peter, otherwise Tsereteli will have enough of a kondrashka. Someone said that Peter only scares drunks
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 5 November 2020 21: 15
      +5
      Kondrashka is enough from Shemyakinsky Peter, who was placed in Petropavlovka. Peter Tsereteli regretted, his Petersburg Peter is quite Peter. smile
  • Ryazan87
    Ryazan87 6 November 2020 10: 40
    +2
    I don’t remember whether someone was reinstated or not.

    The monument to Alexander II is in the courtyard of the Military Academy of Communications named after S.M.Budyonny (well, that is, the Nikolaev Academy of the General Staff) + on the street. Lomonosov, a bronze bust of the emperor was installed near the Main Directorate of the Bank of Russia in St. Petersburg. Again, the Savior on Spilled Blood is actually also a monument.
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 6 November 2020 13: 50
      +3
      I just asked if there are three (!) Monuments to Nicholas II in St. Petersburg. All, naturally, a remake, were installed with a difference of ten years.
      The first one is in Pushkin, near the Fedorovsky Cathedral.

      The second - on Ligovsky Prospect near the Exaltation of the Cross Cathedral (corner with the Obvodny Canal)

      The third one is at the Church of the Resurrection of Christ next to the former Varshavsky railway station, on the Obvodny Canal.

      The last monument was probably erected not without secret intent, in any case, the place was chosen very, how to say, ambiguous for such a monument. Firstly, the temple, near which the monument stands, was built on the then workers' outskirts of St. Petersburg and was built by the sobriety society. For Nicholas II, the topic of sobriety, as far as I know, was, let's say, relevant, but not close. smile
      And secondly, and this, in my opinion, is already a subtle high-level trolling, it was in this church that
      "some priest - socialist Gapon"
      (quote from the emperor's diary). It would be cooler to erect a monument to Nikolai only at the Narva Gate, where, in fact, the execution of the demonstrators led by Gapon took place.
      Logically, another monument should be erected in 2023 (ten-year periodicity).
      I propose this option: sad Nikolai with a bottle of cognac and a saucer of lemon sits at the table and writes a diary: "Lord, how painful and hard it is! .. We had breakfast with everyone. Walked with Misha ..." (quote from the same diary).
      You can install it either in the Alexander Garden or on the Nevsky near the Green (Police) Bridge. And do not forget about Colonel Riemann too - to sculpt in bronze on a horse with a revolver in hand.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 6 November 2020 14: 40
        +2
        I'm sorry, I checked something. Information that
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        it was in this church that he served
        "some priest - socialist Gapon"

        not true.
        In 1904 - 1905 Gapon was the rector of the church at the transit prison, which was located not far from the Lavra of Alexander Nevsky, but also actually on the Obvodny Canal.
        The Church of the Resurrection at the Varshavsky railway station has nothing to do with Gapon and the events of January 1905. I heard about Gapon's service in this church during a school bus excursion about thirty years ago from a guide and for some reason the information sunk into my head. We were even told then how the workers gathered at this church on the morning of January 9, and then, led by Gapon, moved along Izmailovsky Prospect towards the Winter Palace. And today I decided to check it out and found out that everything was completely different.
        I apologize. recourse
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 17: 28
        +4
        and a saucer with lemon

        EMNIP, lemon, sprinkled with coffee and sugar - to cognac - called "nikolashka" ... In memory of the "connoisseur" ... drinks
      3. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 6 November 2020 17: 30
        +2
        That is why I remembered about the lemon. smile
      4. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 17: 38
        +7
        That is why I remembered about the lemon.

        And I remembered how Bubalik and I practiced hockey, and I'll just leave it here - for your amusement, dear People. Have a nice evening everyone! drinks
      5. depressant
        depressant 6 November 2020 22: 43
        +2
        Hokku for Japanese children is an explosion of fun!)))
        And here's another:
        "Better to go badly,
        Than good to go! "
        Advertising hearse.
      6. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 23: 26
        +2
        Hokku for Japanese children is an explosion of fun!)))

        Nice woman
        The company regularly comes to communicate with us.
        Let's be friends!

        (unknown Mikado, 17th century).
        I'm glad I made you happy, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! love You haven't communicated with my friend Anton 3x3zsave yet! wink Here is the one - the most tempting of the vociferous minstrels! good drinks I give a tooth!
    2. Kwas
      Kwas 8 November 2020 19: 02
      +1
      Oh killed! Class!
  • vladcub
    vladcub 6 November 2020 18: 14
    +3
    Good afternoon, Mikhail. Remind me who Colonel Riemann is? Something I don't remember.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 6 November 2020 18: 34
    +3
    Kind. smile
    Riemann is a colonel who commanded the soldiers on the Police Bridge (now the Green Bridge. Located at the place where Nevsky Prospekt crosses the Moika River), in response to the abuse and threats from the demonstrators, he first opened fire on them with his personal weapons, and then gave order and soldiers to shoot the crowd. Without warning. Several volleys along the Moika, and several volleys along the Nevsky.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 7 November 2020 18: 39
    +1
    Thanks I'll know
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 7 November 2020 20: 21
    +1
    Located in the place where Nevsky Prospect crosses the Moika), in response to the abuse and threats from the demonstrators, the first opened fire on them with his personal weapons, and then gave the order to the soldiers to shoot at the crowd. Without warning. Several volleys along the Moika, and several volleys along the Nevsky.

    Svyatoslav ... There was an episode ... in 1696, EMNIP ... The rebel archers stood up against the tsarist troops along the banks of the river .. And began to cover them with obscenities - to swear. And Patrick Gordon commanded the tsarist troops, an old experienced soldier, so he did not understand the humor, and ordered to shoot from the cannons ... fellow Sagittarius scattered immediately, and then a picture about the morning of their execution appeared. hi
    I don't want to say anything for "Bloody Sunday" - who is right and who is wrong. hi But the crowd is a dangerous thing, and only understands strength. soldier Nikolai Pavlovich also did not dare to open fire on the Decembrists for a long time. But then he said to his brother Mikhail: "Mishka, the greatest miracle is that they did not shoot us then ..." But they could! request
  • vladcub
    vladcub 7 November 2020 21: 04
    +2
    Good evening Nikolai, about the archers, this moment is well described by Tolstoy.
    There was a lot of murk about the "bloody Sunday". Although I am not delighted with Samsonov, this is God's punishment on the site, but he very rarely has: "one chance in a thousand", but there are good materials, one of such materials was about "Bloody Sunday": "the leader of the revolution did not take place ".
    As for the Decembrists, there, yes, at first he ordered a warning salvo.
    "It's a miracle that they didn't shoot us then" - the "dark moment" that they played the "standing" game. And what the hell carried them there: "what the hell carried him to that galley" ', it seems, from "Simplification of the Shrew" or something similar.
    When I got to know this event more closely, the first thing I thought was: Pastel and Ryleev are not the most "beautiful" in that company. By and large, they should not have been immortalized, but there is a
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 6 November 2020 11: 01
    +5
    A monument to Pavel Petrovich stands in Gatchina.

    The same in Pavlovsk. And now there is one more monument - in the courtyard of the Mikhailovsky Castle. Here it is. Photo - ours, May 1, 2019.
  • sivuch
    sivuch 7 November 2020 11: 52
    +1
    And now, in my opinion, are: Peter, Alexander 1 and Alexander 3?
    There is a chest of drawers on the square
    hippo on the dresser
    on hippo
    the idiot is wearing a hat
    all together - a monument to Alexander N3 by Paolo Trubetskoy
    The auto editor does not skip certain words and expressions. But you get the idea - I mean a very smart person
  • Kwas
    Kwas 8 November 2020 18: 44
    0
    Excuse me, not St. Petersburg, but at least there is Peter I street there?
  • sivuch
    sivuch 5 November 2020 14: 51
    +4
    Do not remind - where?
    I meant where in Leningrad the streets are. Pugachev. I don't know at close range
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 November 2020 15: 07
        +6
        another in the Primorsky region.
        Uh-huh, "Orphan's Quarter".
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 5 November 2020 15: 26
          +8
          Uh-huh, "Orphan's Quarter".

          do you think that just in this case - "Pugachev is not on them"? wink
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 November 2020 15: 32
            +7
            Here, you know, the situation is like in a joke about the Decembrist's elderly granddaughter.
            "How strange, but my grandfather did not want to be poor ..."
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 5 November 2020 15: 38
              +6
              "How strange, but my grandfather did not want to be poor ..."

              Yesterday, for the sake of interest, I read Wikipedia about Bukharin ... He was an interesting man! And his farewell letter ... even more interesting!
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2020 16: 58
              +6
              Still, my ancestors Gamayuny were great pragmatists, leaving about themselves in memory: streets Gvazdarka, Nudovka, Zaprudnaya, Zagornaya, Zarechnaya, Zavodskaya, Shaderka, 1st 2nd 3rd Yelanny, from 1 to 4 Artisans, from 1 5 Akhmanaevka and 7 Dunaev !!! Until now, the locals use the Demidov notation system as the only correct one !!!
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 November 2020 18: 24
      +6
      I was shocked myself
      After the bridge named after A. Kadyrov in this city it is difficult to shock with the toponomy.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 5 November 2020 18: 32
    +2
    Konstantin, hello. In my opinion, there are no monuments: Razin, Bolotnikov. As far as Bolotnikov is concerned, 5 years ago, I perceived Bolotnikov as the leader of the peasant uprising, and now ... already a different perception. He was an ally of False Dmitry, and this is a dubious person
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 6 November 2020 07: 40
      +5
      Sasha Pushkin specifically said about all these Pugachevs and Razin:
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 6 November 2020 09: 46
        +2
        I remember that and some of our colleagues scare me with their radicalism.
        For them, there is only their point of view, and who does not share then destroy him
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 6 November 2020 10: 04
          +2
          There have always been such types, and a fanatic who sees nothing around him and is obsessed only with his idea, he is more terrible than any wild beast. And if the beast can be locked in a cage, then the fanatic can only be destroyed.
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 6 November 2020 11: 39
            +1
            Konstantin, at least you said cruelly, but I'm afraid that you are right
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 5 November 2020 20: 02
    +2
    I don’t know the monument.

    And the place is known - Lobnoe.
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 5 November 2020 20: 44
      0
      In fact, the Execution Ground not only served for this, but also for the announcement of various decrees. Wait, I remembered that Tsikler and various people were executed there. So your guess is in flight
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 5 November 2020 22: 13
        +3
        Believe me, I heard about the use of Execution Ground to announce decrees, back in school,
        So let's leave the direction of the assumption in place.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 6 November 2020 07: 57
      +1
      Hello, Sergey. hi
      There are no questions about the Execution Ground, but there is a monument nearby.

      And the people did not fail to walk about this:
      "Look, prince, what scum
      Divorced at the Kremlin walls!
      At the place of execution of Pugach
      There is canned food from Ilyich. "(C)
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 6 November 2020 08: 45
        +3
        I think that in speech it is possible to use "place of execution" in the meaning of "scaffold".

        Pugachev's path, as you know, ended at Bolotnaya.

        And Russian cities and rivers have seen and heard a lot.

        "Volga heard songs
        Stronger than "Dubinushka" (c).

        Hi Constantine!
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 6 November 2020 20: 51
          +4
          Greetings Sergey! Evening, Moscow, light of lanterns. Rain, cloudy, few passers-by hurry home. Someone is wearing a mask, someone is not.
          And on VO there is silence and the absence of interesting topics. But this is today ... What will happen tomorrow? We will find out tomorrow. But for now? Silence ... Boring. Dreary. Autumn. Rain. Moscow. winked
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 6 November 2020 23: 24
            +3
            "And everything will repeat itself as of old" (c).

            Good evening, Seryozha!
  • parusnik
    parusnik 5 November 2020 06: 13
    10
    Not a bad Soviet-Albanian film "Skanderbeg", filmed in the early 50s of the last century.
    1. Sofa batyr
      Sofa batyr 5 November 2020 06: 43
      +9
      Quote: parusnik
      Not a bad Soviet-Albanian film "Skanderbeg", filmed in the early 50s of the last century.

      Thanks for the tip. yes I will reinforce my reading of the article by watching a movie.
      I think it won't be difficult to find it online.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2020 06: 58
      +6
      Thank you, Alexy, for the advice.
      1. Sofa batyr
        Sofa batyr 5 November 2020 07: 22
        12
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Thank you, Alexy, for the advice.

        The film was shot during the period of intense military-political contacts between Albania and the USSR.

        Since 1956, Albania had a basing point for the submarine forces of the Black Sea Fleet of the USSR, and in addition, other fleet units were located there in the Albanian Vlora. On the island at the entrance to the Pasha-Liman Bay, there was an OVR brigade, which included a minesweeper division.
        In 1958, a radio range hydrographic party "Coordinator" and other hydrophysical parties of the 8th separate Red Banner maneuverable hydrographic support division of the Black Sea Fleet were deployed in Vlore.

        And in 1961, due to political differences, our fleet was forced to leave this basing point.

        Nevertheless, with the boats based there, an amusing and curious incident is associated, which became history due to the grandiose international scandal that broke out in December 1959.
        The then US President D. Eisenhower decided to take a ride in the Mediterranean on the heavy cruiser Des Moines. The cruiser sailed in the Gulf of Tunis within an aircraft carrier order.
        And suddenly, almost at the very side of the Des Moines, a periscope rose. Panic seized the command of the compound. American destroyers rushed to pursue the boat.

        Valentin Kozlov, the commander of the S-360 submarine (project 613), managed to break away from the Yankees only on the third day and, in due time, return to base in Vlore.

        The submarine S-360's violation of stealth was the subject of proceedings by the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy. The commander was about to be dismissed from his post, even though the time for communications with the submarines was set by the command of the Fleet. And the commander got in touch in due time in the Gulf of Tunis. Khrushchev himself saved the commander.
        He learned through "other" channels about the fright of the American command and of Eisenhower himself and ordered not only not to punish, but also to reward the submariners.
    3. Catfish
      Catfish 5 November 2020 08: 38
      +7
      In our box office the film was called "The Great Warrior of Albania Skanderbeg", I saw him in childhood, but I remember only one thing - a hefty, bearded guy rides a horse and twirls a huge sword over his head, but all the boys were delighted.
      1. VLR
        5 November 2020 11: 25
        +7
        Yes, the film is beautiful, although, probably, already a little naive for our cynical times. I inserted frames from it as illustrations in the text of the article
    4. vladcub
      vladcub 5 November 2020 18: 37
      +3
      Alexey himself wanted to say about this film. Once I looked: there was a powerful man
  • Catfish
    Catfish 5 November 2020 08: 41
    +6
    ... the ruler of Wallachia, Vlad III Tepes, gave a feast for the bishops and boyars on this occasion, at the end of which all the guests were put on stakes.

    How sweet and direct, the comrade knew how to deal with the surrounding public. laughing
    Thank you Valery, I read it with pleasure. hi
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 5 November 2020 16: 01
      +4
      A brilliant example of how in some cases it is necessary to solve the personnel issue. good
  • Catfish
    Catfish 5 November 2020 08: 45
    11
    And a little about the then firearms.



    1. Icelord
      Icelord 5 November 2020 14: 05
      +4
      Konstantin hi ... Here's the last funny one. How to keep it? You don't seem to stick your armpit
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 5 November 2020 14: 45
        +5
        Igor hi , at the bottom the "tail" is simply chopped off, and the hook is for an emphasis on the wall. We called them "zatinnaya pishchal", in the west "gakovnitsa", but this was already later by the XNUMXth century.

        But from some it was possible to shoot and "from hand", everything depended on the size and powder charge.



        But with these it was already possible to work even on horseback.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 5 November 2020 14: 47
          +4
          Yeah, the restorer didn’t cut the tail, I thought so. thanks
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 5 November 2020 14: 51
            +6
            Or maybe just such a piece of "native" wood was left and decided not to spoil the thing with a remake. smile
            This is how they were used.


            1. Icelord
              Icelord 5 November 2020 14: 54
              +6
              From, in vain I inserted mine, you already have this device. And it's convenient, you must admit, when the chest is armored, the recoil is not particularly worried smile
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 5 November 2020 15: 06
                +5
                Nothing in vain, I, for example, have not seen this drawing, and this is not a reconstruction, but really from nature. good
                Zx, technology did not allow them to do something like that - bam, and into the dust! And no return ... laughing
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 5 November 2020 15: 10
                  +5
                  Well, it looks like the reenactor from this or a similar drawing and made a start. And RPG kanesh thing, and just against armored targets. Yes laughing
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 5 November 2020 16: 44
                  +2
                  something like that - bam, and into the dust! And no return
                  BFG-9000 type wassat
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 5 November 2020 16: 56
                    +5
                    It is more reliable, at least it has been repeatedly tested. wink
                    1. vladcub
                      vladcub 5 November 2020 18: 59
                      +4
                      Kostya, you don’t know where she’s going to shoot, otherwise it’s not even an hour ...
                      Good evening
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 6 November 2020 07: 59
                        +3
                        Hello, glory, and who knows where, a woman with a grenade is an unpredictable phenomenon, even with a "bazooka" and even more so. laughing
                      2. vladcub
                        vladcub 6 November 2020 14: 29
                        +2
                        It reminded me of a chimpanzee with lemon: only God knows what he will come up with.
                        PS women at the wheel are different: the cousin has not had a single violation since 1978, but for all the time she could NEVER enter the yard, someone drives. A friend's wife handed over to the rights and ... the post interfered. A man lives on the street, he worked in a taxi company for 14 years, and already 3 cars in an accordion! The other day you bought a "behu" for a long time?
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 6 November 2020 15: 12
                        +4
                        ... God alone knows what he will come up with.

                        I am afraid that in this case even the Lord is not aware. laughing
                        I have not crashed a single car for the simple reason that I never had a car. This is my third quadric, but there was not a single accident, the previous two were sold for "old age" years.
                        I have been in accidents twice and both times the drivers were professionals, but under a good "fly".
                        He himself arranged an accident in the army on a tank, there were no casualties, he crushed the pipes of the heating main and almost flew into the ditch, the brakes failed, as you know, the same "fly" is to blame. True, there were no consequences. smile
                      4. vladcub
                        vladcub 6 November 2020 20: 54
                        +2
                        Several years ago, a friend and I were driving down the mountain, but the "cadet $" had a croak of hydraulics. He could hardly enter the ditch, the speed was about 80. When we got out: his face was white, his hands were trembling. He almost gave the "cadet" for nothing. 4 years did not fit the car, and I decided to buy it, but only "loin".
  • Icelord
    Icelord 5 November 2020 14: 51
    +7
    Sorry for the quality of the photo, but yes, you can also ride. Early-mid 15th century miniature
  • Undecim
    Undecim 5 November 2020 12: 01
    +4
    From the article "Crusaders against the Ottoman Empire: the last campaign", you remember that in 1444 the despot of Serbia Georgy Brankovic refused to allow the crusaders to pass through their lands. He did the same now, banning Kastrioti from entering Serbia. Moreover, they say that he informed about the movement of the army of Hunyadi Sultan Murad II, who at that time was besieging the Albanian city of Kruja. As a result, the Albanian troops could not arrive on time, and on the Kosovo field Hunyadi saw not allies, but a Turkish army ready for battle. It was the actions of Georgy Brankovich that possibly predetermined the new defeat of the Christian army. Looking ahead, let's say that Kastrioti, in revenge, then ravaged the possessions of the Serbian despot.
    Historians have refuted the version that Georgy Brankovich forbade Kastrioti to enter Serbia. At least as early as 1968 in the journal Revue des Études sud-est européennes in the article Skanderberg et ianko de Hunedoara. You can also see the more recent edition of Mehmed the Conqueror and His Time, p. 40.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 5 November 2020 12: 10
    +8
    Valery, thanks again for another interesting material. I sometimes forget to express my gratitude to you as the author, but that does not mean that I don’t feel it.
    Personally, I assess the Ottoman campaigns in Europe as a "demobilization chord" of the millennial onslaught of the East to the West, which would not mean by the terms "East" and "West".
    With regard to the topic of the article, I would like to note that apart from Skanderbeg, it seems to me that such a contemporary of Hunyadi as Jan Iskra is also of interest. Although he is not as famous as Skanderbeg or Vlad Tepes, I think his biography is quite worthy to devote a little material to her within the framework of this cycle, especially since such material will also overlap with the Hussite theme.
    Well, from there it will be possible to throw a bridge to the Zapolyai dynasty, and from them to Stefan Bathory - in short, there is still a lot of work for you. smile
    We hope that your creativity won't run out. smile
  • pytar
    pytar 5 November 2020 13: 22
    12
    Interesting article! Thanks to the author! hi We are waiting for the next one, about the truly heroic resistance of the small Albanian people against the Ottoman expansion! These mountaineers, led by Skanderbeg and crawling with the specifics of the area, put up the fiercest resistance to the Ottomans! Percentage more Turks were killed in the mountains of Albania than anywhere else in the Balkans. The Ottoman armies died one after another, but the forces were extremely disparate and Albania followed the fate of other Balkan countries ...
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 5 November 2020 13: 58
    +3
    Quote: Divan-batyr
    let me organize a Crusade to Palestine

    In this case, the Crusades were organized precisely against the Turks.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 5 November 2020 14: 03
    +5
    Valery. Sincere gratitude for your work
  • vladcub
    vladcub 5 November 2020 18: 53
    +4
    "gave a feast for the bishops and boyars, at the end of which all the guests were impaled," how "sincere" gave the people the opportunity to celebrate the commemoration on their own.
    How "fun" times were: you go to visit and do not know where you will sit: on a chair or on a stake
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 5 November 2020 20: 33
    +1
    Valery, I am always glad when I see you or Vyacheslav Olegovich. Only you will download us from the "dense" stupidity of some authors or the bias that Samsonov sins.
    Below, colleagues have gathered everything + with their "bows", and the poor woman will be glad to see you more often
  • depressant
    depressant 5 November 2020 23: 46
    +1
    What amazes me the most about these stories? Murad II ordered to kill 6000 soldiers, and they killed, or rather, brought them to their knees and cut their throats, as was customary among the Ottomans. This notorious tepes put the guests on a stake. I have read that there was some kind of uprising in Wallachia, so at the behest of Tepes, almost several tens of thousands of people were put on a stake ...
    So what? Didn't these people resist? This is a monstrous death - on a stake! Six thousand soldiers did not resist the Ottomans?
    All this is strange.
    Because I happened to read something else, namely: how hungry, weakened people fled from Nazi concentration camps. The crowd broke through. Everyone knew that he could die, that a breakthrough is death. Indeed, only a few broke through - due to the fact that everyone, without exception, deliberately sacrificed themselves, but at least a few broke through. And then 6000 people were allowed to kill themselves like rams. Thousands more gave themselves to be impaled. Some kind of darkness. I don’t know something, I don’t understand.
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 6 November 2020 11: 09
    +2
    Quote: depressant
    I don’t know something, I don’t understand.

    It is possible that someone resisted.
    It's just that the chronicles and chronicles were, as a rule, laconic: "6000 people were killed." And that's all. But in fact there could have been that someone was desperately fighting, struggling, trying to break through, etc.
    From the 20th century. there is just a lot of evidence left: memories of survivors, memoirs, minutes, newsreels, photo chronicles, etc.
    And from the 15th century. - only scanty lines in the annals. So guess how it was in reality.
    I think differently
  • Molot1979
    Molot1979 12 November 2020 09: 37
    0
    Usually the victories of the Ottomans are attributed to their incredible illy superiority. But for some reason, the numbers did not interfere with either Skanderbeg or Janos Hunyadi. Although hardly Albania or Hungary had more troops than the Ottomans. But they fought the Turks quite successfully. About Dracula. Author, why repeat the fairy tales composed by Hungarians? Lord Vlad fought with the Turks no less successfully than Hunyadi himself. And he in gratitude - in the dungeon. Look for him - he wanted independence, and even a schismatic .... Well, how did it end for the cunning Magyar? Another ruler sold him in the described battle for three rubles. Yes, and the fact that after the feast Dracula ordered all the boyars to be impaled - this is known from the same Hungarians to whom the independence of Wallachia was a sickle below the belt. It was they who sent out pamphlets about him, accusing him of cannibalism and the extermination of his own people. The same trick that was later used against Ivan the Terrible. And also quite successfully, many people still believe that Dracula was a ghoul. The Romanians themselves, however, have a completely different opinion on this matter.