Military Review

The new pistol for the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Rosgvardia received an official name

172
The new pistol for the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Rosgvardia received an official name

The new Poloz pistol developed at TsNIITOCHMASH, intended for operative or concealed carrying by employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the National Guard, received the official name - "compact self-loading pistol" and the designation RG120-2. This was reported by the press service of the Central Research Institute.


As previously reported, the Institute's specialists have developed a whole line of pistols: 9x21-mm self-loading army pistol 6P72 "Boa", 9x19 mm police pistol RG120-2 "Poloz" and sports pistol RG9 "Aspid" 19X120 mm.

As stated in TsNIITOCHMASH, "Aspid" and "Poloz" are a "practical copy" of the "Boa", redesigned for a weaker cartridge.

Complete interchangeability. For example, if the frame of the 9x21-mm "Boa" is supplemented with a small handle, a short bolt, a barrel and a magazine, you will get a 9x19-mm compact "Runner". If you replace the barrel, magazine and grip, a 9x19-mm sports "Aspid" will be released

- explained the leading design engineer of the department for the development of small arms of the institute, Ivan Kozlov, adding that there are still differences.

The new compact self-loading pistol RG120-2 "Poloz" has a caliber of 9x19 mm. It is more compact and lighter than standard army samples and is designed for concealed carry by police officers and the National Guard. The declared firing range is 50 meters, standard pistol cartridges and cartridges with a 9x19 mm caliber steel core bullet are used for firing. Magazine capacity - 15 or 18 rounds. Resource weapons - not less than 10 shots. It is declared that the weapon remains operational in the range from -000 to +50 ° C.

"Poloz" was first shown at the military forum "Army-2020" both statically and dynamically. Shooting from a new pistol was organized in the Patriot Park.
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  1. Thrifty
    Thrifty 27 October 2020 16: 52
    13
    It remains to make a pistol "Uzh" chambered for 5,45! There will be a "hot series"!
    1. Borik
      Borik 27 October 2020 17: 01
      +9
      Thrifty
      Today, 16: 52
      NEW
      0
      It remains to make a pistol "Uzh" chambered for 5,45! There will be a "hot series"!


      And for what or for whom is this "UZh"? He has no destructive power. Unless only point-blank directly to the temple.
      Probably, they have been trying to replace the PM for about 30 years and still cannot choose a pistol from several dozen new samples provided during this time.
      1. loki565
        loki565 27 October 2020 17: 07
        25
        And the PM has probably been trying to replace it for 30 years and still can't choose a gun.

        Because it was stamped so much that it is a pity to throw it away, all the warehouses are full. And most of those who wear it have never used it for their intended purpose, they do not care what is hanging in a holster, if only it is smaller and easier)))
        1. Temples
          Temples 27 October 2020 17: 13
          +6
          Quote: Thrifty
          "Oh!" There will be a "hot series"!

          Earlier, snakes were called reptiles.

          Disgusting names.

          Filth and abomination.

          Was in service with Makarov offered to be replaced by Aspida. negative

          Maybe the author of the titles and his wife are not on good terms? wassat
          Why snakes? request
          1. And Makarov
            And Makarov 27 October 2020 17: 51
            31
            Quote: Temples
            Why snakes?

            They bite. In general - do not care what is called, if only it was reliable.
            1. Terenin
              Terenin 27 October 2020 19: 33
              +4
              Quote: A Makarov
              Quote: Temples
              Why snakes?

              They bite. In general - do not care what is called, if only it was reliable.

              The tradition is to assign certain types of weapons - certain names.
              1. TechPriest
                TechPriest 27 October 2020 19: 42
                +3
                Yeah, of course - "Rook" says hello
                1. Terenin
                  Terenin 27 October 2020 20: 30
                  +8
                  Quote: TechPriest
                  Yeah, of course - "Rook" says hello

                  Yaryga is normal, but, as for me, it is bulky, heavy and has a considerable width. The latter circumstance strongly discourages concealed wearing.
            2. YOUR
              YOUR 28 October 2020 05: 30
              +2
              Almost every month something new appears, a new sample of a pistol, which is predicted to have a great future. They did not have time to replace the PM with the PYa, as it started - recently a message appeared that the PL-15 had been adopted for service, the Udav was adopted the same, now Poloz.
              They continue to be in service with the troops, police, Rosgvardia, FSB .... PM, PMM, APS, PB, APB, SPS, SR-1, etc.
              Understand that specialists should have a variety of weapons, but where so many. So that's not all, there are also foreign models in service - CZ-75, Glock, Steyr M-A1, Beretta-92 FS. The latter are more like premium weapons.
              Why such a variety is not clear. Why not do a competition, as before and as in other states, and adopt a sample based on the results of the competition.
          2. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 27 October 2020 21: 03
            +4
            As I understood from the article, there will be a Poloz for the police and the National Guard, and Aspid will be sports. To be honest, I have not seen sports pistols and I do not know what is the difference from the service
            1. Alex bergman
              Alex bergman 28 October 2020 00: 28
              +1
              Sorry, please, for not a modest question. What about the first account?
            2. midivan
              midivan 28 October 2020 01: 32
              +1
              To be honest, I have not seen sports pistols and I do not know what is the difference from the service
              The differences are obvious)) http://huntsmanblog.ru/pistolet-margolina-i-ego-modifikacii-mc-mcm-mcu-mcm-ki-dr/
        2. Nyrobsky
          Nyrobsky 27 October 2020 17: 22
          +4
          Quote: loki565
          And the PM has probably been trying to replace it for 30 years and still can't choose a gun.

          Yes, because it was stamped so much that it is a pity to throw it away, all the warehouses are full ...
          That is why now the movement in the Duma will begin again and the disputes between - "buy a gun, get" security "" and "we cut more with kitchen knives." And just to dispose of millions of trunks under pressure, as it is not handy.
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 27 October 2020 20: 58
            +4
            I believe that we will eventually come to the turnover of the COP. Of course, in the beginning they will introduce restrictions, which are not more powerful than Baikal.
            Р
            S
            I saw him and I didn't really like him. The same PM
            1. Rzzz
              Rzzz 27 October 2020 22: 57
              +6
              Quote: Astra wild2
              we come to the turnover of the COP.

              Hardly. They won't be allowed upstairs. They understand that the situation in the country may become destabilized, and citizens will no longer shoot at each other because of drunkenness, but at riot police and other national guards, dispersing protest actions.
          2. vfwfr
            vfwfr 27 October 2020 22: 13
            +3
            A kitchen knife does not accidentally fly into the window of a restaurant or shop ...
            1. Nyrobsky
              Nyrobsky 27 October 2020 22: 29
              -1
              Quote: vfwfr
              A kitchen knife does not accidentally fly into the window of a restaurant or shop ...

              Who can argue with that? I'm talking about the fact that now the movement and discord will begin between the supporters and opponents of the legalization and sale of short-barrels to the population. By the way, there have been no such battles for a long time in VO, usually a "shootout" once a year is definitely arranged. And so, whatever one may say, but the question arises - "What to do with these freed trunks?"
              1. your1970
                your1970 27 October 2020 22: 34
                0
                Quote: Nyrobsky
                By the way, there have been no such battles for a long time in VO, usually a "shootout" once a year is definitely arranged.
                -dviznyak in America apparently influenced ..... weapons, to put it mildly, there are 400 million barrels, but there is no security ...
                Here Misha "KS" and calmed down ...
                1. Nyrobsky
                  Nyrobsky 27 October 2020 22: 35
                  -1
                  Quote: your1970
                  -dviznyak in America apparently influenced ..... weapons to put it mildly, dofigischa there - 400 million barrels, but there is no security ...
                  Here Misha "KS" and fell silent
                  .

                  Probably yes. hi
              2. vfwfr
                vfwfr 28 October 2020 23: 45
                0
                Well, I'm so .. ahead of the curve .. But I don't know yet, water for a match or oil for embers)))
              3. vfwfr
                vfwfr 28 October 2020 23: 53
                -2
                "" What to do with these freed up trunks? "" For remelting, and for the production of new products. For until they declare (and thank God) martial law, horseradish the Constitutional Court will be allowed, although that is hardly .. And the officers already have it.
            2. unknown
              unknown 28 October 2020 07: 11
              -1
              On the other hand, irons accidentally fall from the windowsill.
        3. Deck
          Deck 27 October 2020 17: 29
          33
          if only smaller and easier)))


          For secret agents - a compact "Worm"!
          1. ssergey1978
            ssergey1978 27 October 2020 17: 49
            +7
            Bravo. You made me a day
        4. Doliva63
          Doliva63 27 October 2020 18: 57
          +5
          Quote: loki565
          And the PM has probably been trying to replace it for 30 years and still can't choose a gun.

          Because it was stamped so much that it is a pity to throw it away, all the warehouses are full. And most of those who wear it have never used it for their intended purpose, they do not care what is hanging in a holster, if only it is smaller and easier)))

          And it is also convenient for them to open beer - an ingenious design, it will last a long time! laughing drinks
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 27 October 2020 20: 44
            +4
            I heard about it, but did not see
            1. ghby
              ghby 28 October 2020 08: 09
              +5
              See, here's the video.
            2. Doliva63
              Doliva63 29 October 2020 21: 14
              0
              Quote: Astra wild2
              I heard about it, but did not see

              This is because they did not serve in the army. laughing You will live in the barracks for a couple of years, you will run through the fields, there will be something to remember laughing drinks
          2. ghby
            ghby 28 October 2020 08: 06
            +2
            Quote: Doliva63
            And it is also convenient for them to open beer - an ingenious design, it will last a long time!

            good drinks
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 29 October 2020 21: 19
              +1
              Quote: ghby
              Quote: Doliva63
              And it is also convenient for them to open beer - an ingenious design, it will last a long time!

              good drinks

              Damn it, sir, drunk I beat you "minus". I beg you to forgive me generously drinks
        5. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 27 October 2020 21: 06
          +6
          "for less and easier" I suggest they give out plastic toys. Small and light
        6. The comment was deleted.
        7. Starover_Z
          Starover_Z 28 October 2020 10: 46
          0
          Quote: loki565
          Because it was stamped so much that it is a pity to throw it away, all the warehouses are full.

          Much has been written here about the armament of the crews of all kinds of combat vehicles. So can't you arm them instead of controversial machine guns?
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 29 October 2020 21: 26
            0
            Quote: Starover_Z
            Quote: loki565
            Because it was stamped so much that it is a pity to throw it away, all the warehouses are full.

            Much has been written here about the armament of the crews of all kinds of combat vehicles. So can't you arm them instead of controversial machine guns?

            War machines are a battlefield. The minimum weapon of the battlefield is the machine gun. The pistol will only allow the crew to shoot themselves, but not to fight. AKS74U is not a controversial model of a machine gun, but a very solid machine gun. If, of course, you know how to apply it. I hit targets with it at a range of about 300 m. What pistol can replace it?
        8. Ingenegr
          Ingenegr 29 October 2020 12: 47
          -1
          Quote: loki565
          who wears it has never been used for its intended purpose

          And having received "reptiles", they will immediately turn into cowboys and start firing right and left?
      2. Nychego
        Nychego 27 October 2020 17: 17
        +7
        And for what or for whom is this "UZh"? He has no destructive power. Unless only point-blank directly to the temple.

        Issue exclusively as a gift and give to the thieving officials in any department. You have described the method of application.
        1. Piramidon
          Piramidon 27 October 2020 18: 45
          +3
          Quote: Nychego
          Issue exclusively as a gift and give to the thieving officials in any department. You have described the method of application.

          Not a single official has yet shot himself and is unlikely to shoot himself.
          1. Terenin
            Terenin 27 October 2020 19: 36
            +8
            Quote: Piramidon
            Quote: Nychego
            Issue exclusively as a gift and give to the thieving officials in any department. You have described the method of application.

            Not a single official has yet shot himself and is unlikely to shoot himself.

            This is not his merit, but someone's flaw winked
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 27 October 2020 19: 08
          +4
          You just need another controller, so that they don't cheat
      3. Cowbra
        Cowbra 27 October 2020 17: 35
        -2
        Quote: Borik
        And the PM is probably trying to replace for 30 years

        PMM.
        And in general, it's time to change - this is a purely police weapon, rather, to stop the aimed, or even scare at all. When it was being developed, cops often went without guns at all. I say for sure that in the 80s I did not see our district police officer with a holster AT ALL. And now the car may need to shoot through the engine, so 9 by 21 is not a panacea
        1. faiver
          faiver 27 October 2020 17: 53
          +1
          And now the car may need to shoot through the engine
          - Why?
          1. Cowbra
            Cowbra 27 October 2020 17: 55
            -4
            So the cop then and the cop now are two big differences. Then running away strongly sideways could be fraught. And now the cops are without exception carrying Kalash, that's the question - why? Yes, all the same.
        2. Doliva63
          Doliva63 27 October 2020 19: 02
          +6
          Quote: Cowbra
          Quote: Borik
          And the PM is probably trying to replace for 30 years

          PMM.
          And in general, it's time to change - this is a purely police weapon, rather, to stop the aimed, or even scare at all. When it was being developed, cops often went without guns at all. I say for sure that in the 80s I did not see our district police officer with a holster AT ALL. And now the car may need to shoot through the engine, so 9 by 21 is not a panacea

          Duc give them an RPG, business! And disperse the crowd, and shoot the engine - easily laughing And a real policeman must hit the back of a running criminal with one grenade, and so that they don't notice around it laughing
        3. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 27 October 2020 20: 51
          +1
          Sowbra, actually PM is based on Walter PP. When Walter was being developed, Soviet policemen had revolvers and automatic pistols, probably TT. Judging by the films
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 27 October 2020 22: 23
            +1
            then the Soviet militiamen had revolvers and automatic pistols, probably TT.

            Dear, TT has never been automatic. In service with the police before the PM, he really was.
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 28 October 2020 12: 10
              +1
              Actually, for a woman, she is literate, and this does not often happen
        4. unknown
          unknown 28 October 2020 07: 15
          0
          The PM cartridge is unsuccessful. It's not about the sleeve, it's about the bullet, or rather, how it sits in the sleeve. In Belgium, they conjured up the patron, it turned out very well.
          The pistol is not bad at all. You need to train more often.
      4. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 27 October 2020 20: 41
        +2
        Colleague Borik, do you know PSM well? And I was, as they say, waiting for him. I was in Tire once or twice, I didn't get into the top ten, but there were about eight. I used to bottle them
        1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
          Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 27 October 2020 21: 54
          +4
          PSM is a very accurate thing. Was on constant wear for about 10 years, and shooting at targets is not enough. But about the damaging properties ... winked
      5. Izotovp
        Izotovp 28 October 2020 09: 22
        0
        And the pistol cartridges 4,6x30 and 5,7x28, which have been successfully used for a long time, is not an argument for you?
      6. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
        Andrey Krasnoyarsky 29 October 2020 13: 00
        0
        PM has long become obsolete. But it has one huge advantage - it is cheap to manufacture and as simple as three kopecks. Unlike American policemen, ours use pistols for combat purposes very rarely (if you do not judge the police work by TV series and action films), so statesmen reason something like this: it's okay that the pistol is so-so, the main thing is that the treasury is not strained.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. halpat
      halpat 27 October 2020 18: 32
      -1
      Quote: Thrifty
      It remains to make a pistol "Uzh" chambered for 5,45! There will be a "hot series"!

      "Zheltopuzik" is a special item for traffic police officers.
      It seems to be a snake too, but in fact it is a legless lizard smile
    4. halpat
      halpat 27 October 2020 18: 50
      -1
      Why are they all so rough / oak made?
      There are Glocks, for example. Or CZ, Shadow 2 is just super.
      I do not understand. Religion does not allow to learn?
    5. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 27 October 2020 23: 26
      +3
      Quote: Thrifty
      It remains to make a pistol "Uzh" chambered for 5,45! There will be a "hot series"!

      Let's remember the SR-1, aka SPS - Serdyukov's Self-Loading Pistol, aka "Gyurza" - GRAU 6P53 index. Parents of "Gyurza" PI Serdyukov and IV Belyaev, 1996, cartridge 9x21mm mod. 1995 RG054, recoil with a short stroke of the barrel, trigger trigger of double action, and so on and so on ... Why "Boa", "Poloz" and "Aspid" are not named by the name of the designer? - PC - Kozlov's pistol ... From a foreign "snake series" - a revolver "Python" .357 magnum Colt firm
      revolver Python .357 mgnum
      revolver Colt King Cobra .357 magnum (King Cobra)
      Colt King Cobra .357 Magnum
      The "Serpentine Series" is popular in the world ...
      1. cat Rusich
        cat Rusich 28 October 2020 00: 14
        +1
        Forgot the semi-automatic "Mamba" 9x19mm
        Mamba 9x19mm South Africa
        from South Africa.
      2. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 28 October 2020 13: 18
        +2
        Kitty, let's fantasize. As time passed, this pistol was "registered" in the army or the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Experienced campaigners meet.
        - I haven't cleaned my Goat for a long time, but today it's shooting
        -Do you remember, we had: Makar, Grach, APS, now appeared.
        It is quite possible that the creator was teased as a child, children love it, so he refused such an honor
    6. true_rover
      true_rover 28 October 2020 09: 15
      +1
      In the USSR, PSM was created with a 5,45mm caliber. In 91, my father served in the ZabVO (I was still in high school then) and he was friends with the district garrison, so he had such a pistol. I was lucky to hold it in my hand, it's a pity I didn't manage to shoot
      1. Lynx2000
        Lynx2000 29 October 2020 14: 29
        0
        Quote: true_rover
        In the USSR, PSM was created with a 5,45mm caliber. In 91, my father served in the ZabVO (I was still in high school then) and he was friends with the district garrison, so he had such a pistol. I was lucky to hold it in my hand, it's a pity I didn't manage to shoot

        Do you mean the district commissioner? If so, if he had a PSM, most likely a reward.
        To be honest, PSM as a service one for the district police officer ... is doubtful.
  2. BDRM 667
    BDRM 667 27 October 2020 16: 53
    +6
    The new Poloz pistol developed at TsNIITOCHMASH, intended for operative or concealed carrying by employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the National Guard, received the official name - "compact self-loading pistol" and the designation RG120-2.


    So many pistols have been announced over the past ten years that I'm just at a loss.
    And if you keep the report from 1991, then in general, ooh ooh ...
    Lots of brands, models, concepts ...
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 27 October 2020 19: 44
      +5
      Quote: BDRM 667
      The new Poloz pistol developed at TsNIITOCHMASH, intended for operative or concealed carrying by employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the National Guard, received the official name - "compact self-loading pistol" and the designation RG120-2.


      So many pistols have been announced over the past ten years that I'm just at a loss.
      And if you keep the report from 1991, then in general, ooh ooh ...
      Lots of brands, models, concepts ...

      Here are some
      1. Alexfly
        Alexfly 1 November 2020 12: 03
        0
        And what is actually produced from this quantity?
        1. Terenin
          Terenin 1 November 2020 12: 40
          +4
          Quote: AlexFly
          And what is actually produced from this quantity?

          Which gun of doubt?
          1. Alexfly
            Alexfly 1 November 2020 13: 40
            0
            Yes, in any tkni, there are problems, in one, then in the other. I would take Berdysh. Yes, it is no longer produced ..... So you have to feed on "Glocks" ..
            1. Terenin
              Terenin 1 November 2020 15: 25
              +4
              Quote: AlexFly
              Yes, in any tkni, there are problems, in one, then in the other. I would take Berdysh. Yes, it is no longer produced ..... So you have to feed on "Glocks" ..

              Well, that is a given!
  3. NEXUS
    NEXUS 27 October 2020 16: 53
    +4
    Makarych needs to be changed. It is a fact. Enough with the old man.
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 27 October 2020 19: 45
      +7
      Quote: NEXUS
      Makarych needs to be changed. It is a fact. Enough with the old man.

      Yes, they began service with him, served with him and finished with him. soldier
    2. not main
      not main 27 October 2020 23: 34
      +2
      Quote: NEXUS
      Makarych needs to be changed. It is a fact. Enough with the old man.

      Maybe so! I just remembered a case. Shooting of officers from the PM. Shoot at targets at 25 meters, but boring! And then one officer hangs a wristwatch on the target! Shot RUBLE! (it was in 1984), so they threw him a full cap of rubles, and the watch was undamaged! Although there is a sequel! After another officer hung out the clock, the second shot was fatal to the clock! You just don't have to expect too much from a short barrel! In fact, he copes with his task!
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 28 October 2020 12: 02
        +1
        What a shooter, sympathy or antipathy for the owner of the watch. Everything must be considered
    3. vfwfr
      vfwfr 28 October 2020 23: 58
      0
      Small and lightweight. especially for those who shoot only at a shooting range of 99,9%, although they are serving ... So why change? Squeak of fashion?
  4. Letun
    Letun 27 October 2020 16: 55
    +6
    Some names ... Not pretty.
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 27 October 2020 20: 32
      +7
      Quote: Letun
      Some names ... Not pretty.

      hi
      Here, after all, how to look
      wink
  5. KSVK
    KSVK 27 October 2020 16: 59
    -9
    Thank goodness it finally dawned on someone to finish this 9x18 hive.
    1. Ingenegr
      Ingenegr 27 October 2020 17: 04
      +7
      Why did the veteran not please?
      1. K-612-O
        K-612-O 27 October 2020 17: 55
        -6
        Honestly, everyone. Ergonomics, I am silent about the effective firing range, a maximum of 25 m, a small store, you need to put 3-4 bullets into an average dog and then inject from tetanus and rabies. Well, cracking nuts is good.
        I just don't understand why 7,62 is forgotten, I would remove Tokarev's jambs and a beautiful army pistol
        1. 2 Level Advisor
          2 Level Advisor 27 October 2020 18: 49
          11
          for me, this is how Makar copes with his role .. if the battle is at a distance of 100 m and you have a pistol, and the enemy has a machine gun .. something is wrong with this battle, but within 5-15 meters, as he is in 99 percent of cases used-copes quite well ..
          so against a dog it will be just 7,62 worse, it will not stop, and the size of the TT is still more inconvenient ..
          and most of the world's army pistols - Sig Sauer, Beretta - chambered for the same 9mm cartridge. or let's introduce 45 caliber already, so that the dog is sure to blame ..
          we would have to replace the AK-74m for a start .. pistols are not the first need .. and the specialists have not had PM for a long time ..
          1. K-612-O
            K-612-O 27 October 2020 19: 25
            -6
            The 45th is 9mm, then Colt 11,43, deserted needles. Have you heard about the penetrating action? And the size of the pistol is also determined by the ergonomics of the holster. And I wrote that if you cure TT, then there will be no price for it, the alternative is only if Gyurza, but again it is heavy.
            1. 2 Level Advisor
              2 Level Advisor 27 October 2020 19: 26
              +8
              .38 - 9mm, and 45th is just 11,43
          2. Split
            Split 27 October 2020 20: 24
            -1
            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            for me, so Makar copes with his role

            Yab was not so categorical ... All this confusion with cartridges not only in short barrels, but also automatic rifles (automatic in our opinion) - due to the massive appearance of body armor even among civilians. Any BR1 concealed carry will protect from Makarov. Yes, not cheap, 40k + ... But I think who needs it - they will wear it.
            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            how it is used in 99 percent of cases, it copes well ..

            Ok, 99% of the time ... is it okay? This is with a headshot (and not yet a fact) or the central nervous system copes, and any short-barreled, even magnums / AE 44-50. View defeat statistics (OSS). The analogue of 9x18PM is .38 ACP - it has slightly more than 50%. What kind of "relief" is there? Yes, and a person in a stressful situation, who, moreover, in 99% never shot at a person to kill? Right now, shooting from Izh 71 in the shooting range is only a matter of money, even though they will bring in 28 kilogram zinc, just pay (~ 50 rubles per shot, I think zinc is cheaper by an order of magnitude, I haven't fired for a long time). But one thing is to shoot at a shooting range, another thing to a person, even with a weapon, who is ready to kill you.
            1. 2 Level Advisor
              2 Level Advisor 29 October 2020 09: 24
              +1
              1. Civil application. Well, to protect it will protect .. and a lot after a bullet hits BR1 from 5-10m - its owner runs, the next few minutes?
              2. Something in 99 percent of criminals, not particularly armor found ..
              3. In a stressful situation, as you described .. "Two shots fired in a row (double shot) almost always give 100% OSS" - And almost always no one hits with singles. preparation is much more important than the gun itself.
              4. Military applications. Our "classic" armor: 6b23-1, protection class 2-4! - generally pistols do not penetrate in 99% of cases.
              USA: IOTV: protection class 2-4 is the same.
              Conclusions? Yes .. it turns out, why bother with pistols in the army, so what? laughing
              5. If we talk about the stoned in which the clip is released, and he runs, then it seems to me that the cartridge / pistol is no longer the case .. it generally needs to be stopped with a shotgun, almost any pistol is not in the subject .. except that .45 caliber. ...
              To argue that the PM cartridge is weak compared to many others is stupid .. but the above tasks, others, too, will not be particularly solved .. and replacement is very expensive ..
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. 2 Level Advisor
                  2 Level Advisor 30 October 2020 08: 18
                  0
                  1.about a drug addict, he generally most often does not care what kind of gun .. and so (not a drug addict) - a blow of a PM 320 J bullet, an ax blow of 300 J .. after a good blow with an ax in the chest or the sun or collarbone (without breaking through, of course ) do you run a lot? well if no fractures ..
                  2.If the crooks are completely prepared, they are often armed with weapons like AK ..
                  3. the bullet's terver is still somewhat different - up to 100% terver is generally no less than the clip must be driven in) it was a quote from the armory website ..
                  4.Special bullets will definitely not be distributed to everyone
                  5.well, you yourself and confirm that the owner of the weapon is more important than his brand hi
                  1. Split
                    Split 1 November 2020 06: 02
                    0
                    1. to compare a bullet with an ax. As for the impact, this is a scientific moment of momentum, M * V ... you still hit with a tractor or a roller, those figures are generally transcendental
                    2. No comments
                    3. By Terver, the expected value is 1. i.e. 100% problem in the probability of a specific situation
                    4. Money can do anything
                    5. And did not even argue
                  2. Split
                    Split 1 November 2020 06: 24
                    0
                    I walked under bullets for the first time at 93 ... my neighbor got drunk, went out with an Izhom 27e1c, or whatever it was ... shot him ... the buckshot flew ... past ... although I later picked it out of the house. He shot at me ... My father killed him, although he was not on duty. 1 shot, guess what
                    2nd case .... I found Chechnya a little bit ... our "convoy" was fired upon, I was just there as a civilian, the East defended us ... the machine gunner besieged us. I was in a UAZ car between 2 guys ... His name was Nizami, the bullet hit the joint of the armor, the fragments hit the stomach. The SVD pulled it out and took it ... For the first time in my life I fired from the SVD ... from the bear more than once ... 1 time was enough, the mathematical expectation was fulfilled. and almost an hour in the mud, while the boxes arrived
                    Nizami survived for at least an hour + the hospital as a guard. Then he found me through VK, all the same, at the risk of fear and risk, I went at 05, treated me to pilaf and hookah. The wife is very beautiful, Silima. Warm greetings to Dagestan and Chechnya
          3. Alexfly
            Alexfly 1 November 2020 12: 07
            0
            When you get "on the spot" then the caliber is not important, any will lie down, and for this you need to train a lot.
        2. Terenin
          Terenin 27 October 2020 19: 55
          12
          Quote: K-612-O
          maximum 25 m,

          From a legal point of view, these 25 meters is the basis for an appeal by the judicial protection of the legality of the use of weapons by an employee. The main point of using weapons is an immediate threat to life ... and if limited visibility (twilight, night, rain, fog ...), and even 25 meters ... how do you define an immediate threat? Typically application at a distance of 3-5 meters. And, here the PM is just fine.
          1. Obliterator
            Obliterator 27 October 2020 21: 39
            0
            Quote: Terenin
            The main point of using weapons is an immediate threat to life ... and if limited visibility (twilight, night, rain, fog ...), and even 25 meters ... how do you define an immediate threat? Typically application at a distance of 3-5 meters. And, here the PM is just fine.

            Read article 23 of the Federal Law on the police. “imminent threat to life” is just one of many grounds for using firearms.
            1. Terenin
              Terenin 28 October 2020 17: 16
              +3
              Quote: Obliterator
              Quote: Terenin
              The main point of using weapons is an immediate threat to life ... and if limited visibility (twilight, night, rain, fog ...), and even 25 meters ... how do you define an immediate threat? Typically application at a distance of 3-5 meters. And, here the PM is just fine.

              Read article 23 of the Federal Law on the police. “imminent threat to life” is just one of many grounds for using firearms.

              I, dear, more than once stood before the judge for myself and for my colleagues, proving the compliance of the provisions of this article and real events ...
        3. Simargl
          Simargl 27 October 2020 20: 05
          +4
          Quote: K-612-O
          firing range silent, maximum 25 m
          The range of the pistol is maximum 15 m! And more often - 3-7.
      2. Piramidon
        Piramidon 27 October 2020 18: 50
        -3
        Quote: Ingenegr
        Why did the veteran not please?

        Three-line, "revolver", "PPSh" and "maxim" - our everything! Reliable, trouble-free ... Down with progress. Break your head for a fig?
      3. KSVK
        KSVK 27 October 2020 19: 14
        -2
        Quote: Ingenegr
        Why did the veteran not please?

        Are you talking about PM or about 9x18?
        The PM itself was not bad for its time. Like his prototype Walter PPK. But the cartridge was initially poor. Especially when it was made a single cartridge for the short barrel. There is also a magnificent 9x19 universal cartridge. What was the wheel to reinvent?
        1. unknown
          unknown 28 October 2020 07: 22
          0
          What was the wheel to reinvent. There is a great cartridge 9 * 17. They would have done it for him.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 October 2020 17: 58
      12
      Quote: KSVK
      Thank goodness it finally dawned on someone to finish this 9x18 hive.

      Do you believe that?
      For a quarter of a century I have heard ten times that all the "Makarych" is being changed !!! laughing
      In fact, the PM has only three drawbacks: it is inconvenient to reach the store (especially for girls), the weight and small capacity of the store. An acquaintance at one time bought into PMM, then spat for six months. Another exploits the APS and is not overjoyed. So that to each his own!
      Today I wear a Model 62 of the last century, the handle has been replaced with an Israeli "PMG" with a magazine reset button. The pistol is cleaned, wisely oiled and deflected. After wearing, even without use, it is necessary to clean it. So, it's not a fact that I personally like this terrarium.
      And the last question, for what purpose is the Rossguard weapon for concealed carrying?
      1. K-612-O
        K-612-O 27 October 2020 18: 03
        +2
        To your question, there is such a service: operational work and protection of critical infrastructure facilities. And then your BB only works to suppress the mother's revolutseoers?
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 October 2020 18: 17
          +7
          Quote: K-612-O
          To your question, there is such a service: operational work and protection of critical infrastructure facilities. And then your BB only works to suppress the mother's revolutseoers?

          I understood that Kerensky's laurels are pinching the Rosgvardia so that it does not stick out under the skirt !!!
          Covert security of objects is not effective, I am telling you this as a professional.
          Operational work, do not tell my sneakers! Compare the results of the operational work of the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs! So the crumbs that you collect for the police, customs and border troops.
          So it would be honest to write to us too!
          1. Terenin
            Terenin 27 October 2020 20: 13
            +6
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

            Secret security of objects is not effective

            What activities are carried out during the "secret protection of objects"? It's clear about unspoken ORM, but not here request
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 October 2020 21: 53
              +2
              There are no such events! On fingers! Sitting in a civilian truck before leaving the dam, an operative in civilian clothes and, as it were, guarding, and opposite him there is a checkpoint of non-departmental security and is tormented by a headache so that this beautiful opera is not stolen by the FSB! So the last guys with humor, all the same, during the exercises, they confuse!
              The submission with the elimination of the shortcomings does not come to the control of the operative, but to the object and the fight. Private security! Somewhere like that! hi
          2. your1970
            your1970 27 October 2020 22: 42
            0
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            I understood that Kerensky's laurels are pinching the Rosgvardia so that it does not stick out under the skirt !!!
            Covert security of objects is not effective, I am telling you this as a professional.
            -not quite so ... there were a lot of parts where the l / s wore civil clothing form - going on guard
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 October 2020 13: 29
              0
              Quote: your1970
              -not quite so ... there were a lot of parts where the l / s wore a civilian uniform - going on guard

              However, as today they wear a police uniform !!! wink
              The only trouble is that a grandmother with a brand woman is much more effective, these clowns in civilian life!
              OMON is needed for power support and they invite him in full gear in order to reduce or eliminate losses. Their task is to be the first echelon when capturing, the second when a breakthrough is possible. “The OMON is working” sounds menacing and effective. Although our former guys who have gone through more than one "Vovana" hot spot are nagging. Non-departmental guards are not considered people.
              And the last thing. For operational undercover work, the police officer will take his colleague in the shop. Why? Have you read the Era of Mercy? A classic example of how Fuchs divorced Sharapov! So the riot police need big last-chance guns, not concealed carry weapons!
              1. your1970
                your1970 28 October 2020 14: 30
                0
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                So the riot police need big last-chance guns, not concealed carry weapons!

                And where does Riot police???? !!!
                I served in special units of the Internal Troops for the protection of regimes of objects and cargo. We wore CIVIL form of clothing - from under which Makarov stuck out godlessly. They were caught on guard and when they walked through the city to the place, the people whispered - "Bandits !! I saw - with a gun!" ... 90s ...
                We would have had enough PSM for our tasks on some posts
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 October 2020 16: 50
                  -3
                  Quote: your1970
                  Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                  So the riot police need big last-chance guns, not concealed carry weapons!

                  And where does Riot police???? !!!
                  I served in special units of the Internal Troops for the protection of regimes of objects and cargo. We wore CIVIL form of clothing - from under which Makarov stuck out godlessly. They were caught on guard and when they walked through the city to the place, the people whispered - "Bandits !! I saw - with a gun!" ... 90s ...
                  We would have had enough PSM for our tasks on some posts

                  And I mean it, neophytes! Skillfully it is necessary !!!
                  By the way, and why the heck - these parts !!! Easier and cheaper chop!
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 28 October 2020 21: 51
                    0
                    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                    By the way, and why the heck - these parts !!! Easier and cheaper chop!
                    -Why CHOP? just write on the fence - "Don't go there !!" and all fool fool

                    in the 90s, our two regular snipers laid down 3 people - while we were blocking them. Will your private security company fight people carrying 12 kg of explosives + machine gun and 3 machine guns and very shock-firing?
                    On our side, there were 4 machine guns and a bunch of PMs - the fourth of them worked (regular firing from PMs, as opposed to machine guns). It would be more - but it's hard with PM against a machine gun repeat ..Nevertheless, all the attackers had multiple wounds from pistol bullets, 1 rifle bullets each from SVD and not a single automatic caliber.
                    Training, knowledge of the terrain, the density of pistol fire, the skill of snipers - we won ... the wounded one is only one of us, everyone survived ...

                    Submachine gunners for shitty shooting - a year later the shooting range was removed and closed lol

                    And also - the fact that something will be extremely serious in Chechnya - we knew back in the late spring of 1994

                    Chop, riot police ... yeah ...
              2. Lynx2000
                Lynx2000 29 October 2020 14: 52
                +2
                Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka

                Although our former guys who have gone through more than one "Vova" hot spot are nagging. Non-departmental guards are not considered people.

                Have a nice day!
                Please, explain how, and which "VoVans" pinch the riot police?

                Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka

                And the last thing. For operational undercover work, the police officer will take his colleague in the shop. Why? Have you read the Era of Mercy? A classic example of how Fuchs divorced Sharapov! So the riot police need big last-chance guns, not concealed carry weapons!

                Undercover work (for the bourgeoisie with partners), our operational implementation as a type of ORM is carried out under the conspiratorial (legendary) introduction of an operative or an agent in communication with him into the criminal environment or into objects of interest (supervised enterprises / institutions / departments) in order to obtain thoroughly hidden information of operational interest, documenting it, as well as influencing certain persons when they make various decisions.
                The implemented one does not "take" his colleague, secret meetings (time, place, traffic patterns), channels of information transmission, emergency communications and a contact person (from operas) are carefully worked out.
                Riot police in such work are not needed at all, since the introduction is not carried out for a week or a month, it does not end like a film with chases, shootings and detentions ... yes
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 October 2020 15: 51
                  -1
                  These are not the functions of the Russian Guard, but of the operational services of the police, customs and the FSB!
                  Read the Federal Law on ORD!
                  ... Article 13. Bodies carrying out operational-search activity


                  On the territory of the Russian Federation, the right to carry out operational-search activities is granted to operational units:
                  1. The internal affairs bodies of the Russian Federation.
                  2. Bodies of the federal security service.
                  3. Abolished. - Federal Law of 30.06.2003 N 86-FZ.
                  (see the text in the previous wording)
                  4. Federal executive body in the field of state protection.
                  (in the edition of Federal Laws from 18.07.1997 N 101-ФЗ, from 08.12.2011 N 424-ФЗ)
                  (see the text in the previous wording)
                  5. Abolished. - Federal Law of 30.06.2003 N 86-FZ.
                  (see the text in the previous wording)
                  6. Customs authorities of the Russian Federation.
                  7. Foreign intelligence services of the Russian Federation.
                  8. Federal Penitentiary Service.
                  (item 8 in the edition of the Federal law from 29.06.2004 N 58-ФЗ)
                  (see the text in the previous wording)
                  9. Abolished. - Federal Law of 03.07.2016 N 305-FZ.
                  (see the text in the previous wording)
                  The operational subdivision of the foreign intelligence body of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation conducts operational-search measures only for the purpose of ensuring the security of the said foreign intelligence body and in the event that the conduct of these measures does not affect the powers of the bodies specified in paragraphs 1, 2, 4, 6 - 8 of part one of this article.
                  (in the edition of Federal Laws from 30.06.2003 N 86-ФЗ, from 03.07.2016 N 305-ФЗ)
                  (see the text in the previous wording)
                  The list of bodies carrying out operational-search activities may be changed or supplemented only by federal law. The heads of these bodies determine the list of operational units authorized to carry out operational-search activities, their powers, structure and organization of work.
                  1. Lynx2000
                    Lynx2000 30 October 2020 00: 04
                    +2
                    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    These are not the functions of the Russian Guard, but of the operational services of the police, customs and the FSB!
                    Read the Federal Law on ORD!
                    Article 13. The bodies that carry out the operational-search activity

                    yes If your answer was addressed to me, then I know this Law. True, a little over 10 years have passed as it is not relevant for me.
                    It is clear that Rosgvardia units do not carry out an independent reconnaissance patrol. VVshniki themselves do not understand, they mixed in a bunch of incompatible. Now on ORM to collect all the time is spent. Regarding the relationship between the OMON, SOBR and military units of the Interior Ministry, I want to note that they are based primarily on the fighting brotherhood, and everyone is respectful to each other. It happened that special forces fighters from the Internal Troops or the Intelligence Service of the Explosives (contract soldiers or conscripts) moved / got a job in the OMON or SOBR where it was possible to quickly get an officer's rank, service housing. Or vice versa, OMON or SOBR fighters went on a contract to the special forces or explosives reconnaissance.
                    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 October 2020 01: 51
                      0
                      I do not dispute the functions of the Rosgvardia, but only laugh at the desire to obtain concealed carrying weapons for the implementation of the independent reconnaissance patrol!
                      To each his own. I have the honor!
                      1. Lynx2000
                        Lynx2000 30 October 2020 02: 08
                        +2
                        I agree! To each his own, which is due ... yes
        2. Terenin
          Terenin 27 October 2020 20: 03
          +5
          Quote: K-612-O
          and the protection of critical infrastructure facilities.
          Obviously I missed something. Colleague, what are "critical infrastructure facilities"?
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 October 2020 21: 47
            +3
            Quote: Terenin
            Obviously I missed something. Colleague, what are "critical infrastructure facilities"?

            This is what the former non-departmental police guard + dams, locks, hydraulic structures, and nuclear power plants (where without them) are guarded!
            The great and terrible Rosguards are trying to convince the law enforcement society that these objects can be guarded behind the scenes! Everyone laughs at them, but they are on their own wave!
            I will not give examples, the National Guardsmen were overwhelmed in full! Although the most uninvolved were traditionally assigned the extreme (the former OMON and non-departmental security).
        3. Obliterator
          Obliterator 27 October 2020 21: 44
          +3
          Quote: K-612-O
          To your question, there is such a service: operational work and protection of critical infrastructure facilities. And then your BB only works to suppress the mother's revolutseoers?

          The Rosgvardia has no authority for operational work.
      2. Simargl
        Simargl 27 October 2020 20: 04
        0
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        In fact, the PM has only three drawbacks: it is inconvenient to reach the store (especially for girls), the weight and small capacity of the store.
        Just? And the impossibility of getting at least some accuracy in a two (two shots in a row)?
        And what about the ergonomics (grip)?
        And the power of the cartridge (as the Jews say? Better to let it remain than not enough?)?

        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        And the last question, for what purpose is the Rossguard weapon for concealed carrying?
        What does Rosgvardia have to do with it? An employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in civilian clothes, so as not to attract too much attention from colleagues (for example), will not carry weapons openly.
      3. NEXUS
        NEXUS 27 October 2020 20: 13
        0
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        For a quarter of a century I have heard ten times that all the "Makarych" is being changed !!!

        A long time ago it would not hurt at all. The Makar is a reliable, but godlessly outdated machine. And I'm not talking about its shortcomings now, but about the fact that it's already 20 years in the 21st century! New materials, gunpowder, technologies, etc.
        At the same time, why is there a pistol in the army now? In what kind of combat situation would a combat officer need a pistol?
        For the special services, everything has long been developed and serves.
        Remaining the police, prosecutors and so on ... there could have been without reinventing the wheel, for a long time put the same OTs-27 Berdysh, for example, which is time-tested, reliable and quite compact.
        But show-off is more expensive than money.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 October 2020 21: 57
          +3
          In the army, I need a PM definitely! In the rest, based on cost and efficiency. Alas, the new pistols that fell into my hands did not delight me. Hope Snake is better!
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 28 October 2020 13: 38
            +2
            Nikolai, there used to be a colleague from Estonia, Kon, Oudued, he talked a lot about Glock. He said that the PM was purely for the house, so that he could lie near the bed, but not an army one.
            What do you know? I know 3: PSM, my favorite, PM and IZH are the same P, but cartridge 9 x17. I did not like him
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 October 2020 17: 27
              0
              Quote: Astra wild2
              Nikolai, there used to be a colleague from Estonia, Kon, Oudued, he talked a lot about Glock. He said that the PM was purely for the house, so that he could lie near the bed, but not an army one.
              What do you know? I know 3: PSM, my favorite, PM and IZH are the same P, but cartridge 9 x17. I did not like him

              Vera, again by! I'm Vladislav !!! Nikolay Pan, I guard the rats from the rats with him.
              Horse Cannibal and philanthropist! Knows a lot about personal weapons! In some ways he is right, like the rest of the forum users - PM is old!
              The question is different, but if we have money to replace it! At least a million barrels for the Ministry of Internal Affairs alone! If from the point of view of the sovereign "show-off is more expensive than money", then it is to the neophytes! If they made me choose, I would choose the PL! And so, we are not America, our weapons are paper and pen, we are not accustomed to shoot our citizens !!!
              So, unlike toys for the National Guard! The PM will still serve as a revolver served until the mid-80s!
              If they find money for two hundred thousand for the operational services, I have no question! The main thing is that they have them, and not “mythical sentries in civilian clothes”!
              According to PSM, he is a punch, low stopping power, big ricochet. Definitely not for the police! There were facts that after four hits, the junkies with a cut reached the NON members. PM will not allow this.
              Regards, Vlad! love
              1. your1970
                your1970 28 October 2020 22: 01
                -1
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                Как at least under a million trunks only at the Ministry of Internal Affairs!

                -shift a little ... on 250 000 about.
                "Thus, the draft decree proposes to establish the maximum staffing of the internal affairs bodies of the Russian Federation in the amount of 897 units, including employees - 283, federal state civil servants - 749, employees - 273."
        2. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
          Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 27 October 2020 22: 06
          +1
          Berdysh pistol is not small. It would be good for outside police, but not very good for operas. And the prosecutor's office generally does not need such a bandura, they would have had enough PSM for their eyes, not like the PM. They are a purely cabinet-type structure in our country, unless they shoot themselves.
        3. your1970
          your1970 27 October 2020 22: 45
          +1
          Quote: NEXUS
          but godlessly outdated. And I'm not talking about its shortcomings now, but about the fact that it's already 20 years in the 21st century! New materials, gunpowder, technologies, etc.
          -this is not about you now by chance M1911? he is, to put it mildly, much older and nothing - alive, smoking room
          More than 100 years !!!!!! and you are materials, technologies
        4. unknown
          unknown 28 October 2020 07: 28
          0
          Situations in which a combat officer needed a pistol are known in the history of wars.
          The most famous for the effectiveness of the use of a pistol from the history of the Angolan wars.
          A South African officer killed eleven Cubans with a pistol in one battle.
      4. Obliterator
        Obliterator 27 October 2020 21: 43
        +1
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        And the last question, for what purpose is the Rossguard weapon for concealed carrying?

        Rumor has it that the Rosgvardia really wants to become a subject of the ORD.
  6. Freedim
    Freedim 27 October 2020 17: 00
    +5
    Quote: Thrifty
    It remains to make a pistol "Uzh" chambered for 5,45! There will be a "serpentine series"!

    And a small-bore pistol "Worm" laughing
    shl. They also have "Gyurza".
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 27 October 2020 18: 05
      +1
      Gyurza, by the way, is a thing! 9x21, long barrel, comfortable, but heavy
  7. Well done
    Well done 27 October 2020 17: 13
    0
    The main thing is that it was easier "Makarov", otherwise when you walk for 12 hours with almost a kilogram on your belt - life is not sweet, and the latrine is a lot of inconvenience.
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 27 October 2020 17: 58
      0
      What if 24 hours? When realizing the uselessness of the wearable load, especially. If you only shoot yourself.
      1. Well done
        Well done 27 October 2020 18: 16
        +2
        I have not worn for 24 hours. I worked in the teaching staff. Calling "makarov" a useless load, with such a bastard job, my tongue will not turn. But he is still heavy.
    2. Doliva63
      Doliva63 27 October 2020 19: 16
      +5
      Quote: Welldone
      The main thing is that it was easier "Makarov", otherwise when you walk for 12 hours with almost a kilogram on your belt - life is not sweet, and the latrine is a lot of inconvenience.

      Wore and for 24 hours - did not interfere with anything. Dezh. In part, for example. And in an overalls and at all - in a breast pocket you do not notice.
      1. Well done
        Well done 27 October 2020 21: 20
        +1
        I do not know. I only saw the HRC on the draft when he was divorced and at night, when he walked around the barracks. The rest of the time he sat in the duty room. We (the cops of the PPS) were kind of forbidden to carry in a breast pocket, even in winter, in a pea jacket. The side, and the left one, rubbed, pulled and whined ... Yes, the DPCH pistik is needed only for weight)
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 29 October 2020 21: 12
          0
          Quote: Welldone
          I do not know. I only saw the HRC on the draft when he was divorced and at night, when he walked around the barracks. The rest of the time he sat in the duty room. We (the cops of the PPS) were kind of forbidden to carry in a breast pocket, even in winter, in a pea jacket. The side, and the left one, rubbed, pulled and whined ... Yes, the DPCH pistik is needed only for weight)

          You see, in the army, in some cases, it is simply necessary to carry a pistol in the chest holster of an overalls - there is nowhere else to shove it laughing
  8. AllBiBek
    AllBiBek 27 October 2020 17: 20
    +2
    I wonder what the civilian version will be called with an elastic band?
    1. Well done
      Well done 27 October 2020 17: 28
      +2
      The snake snake means they will call it "viper", but most likely, given the love of motorists for injury, they will call it "prank" or "setup". laughing
    2. Ingenegr
      Ingenegr 27 October 2020 18: 29
      +2
      "Maggot", probably)
    3. swnvaleria
      swnvaleria 27 October 2020 19: 31
      0
      Leech! Gum
  9. maktub
    maktub 27 October 2020 17: 35
    +1
    I see the fuse and did not manage to remake
  10. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 27 October 2020 17: 52
    +1
    The snake is a harmless snake. An offensive name for a pistol ... Normal compact, 99 mm barrel chambered for "Parabellum" ...
  11. polar fox
    polar fox 27 October 2020 18: 01
    +3
    for hidden wearing ... oga.PSM is for hidden.and you get tired of getting this crocodile ...
  12. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 October 2020 18: 02
    +4

    As previously reported, the institute's specialists have developed a whole line of pistols: 9x21 mm army self-loading pistol 6P72 "Boa constrictor", 9X19 mm police pistol RG120-2 "Poloz" and sports pistol RG9 "Aspid" 19X120 mm.

    Cuts your hearing! Are the rest with automatic fire mode?
  13. John22
    John22 27 October 2020 18: 06
    +5
    Isn't it possible to call it the old fashioned way by the name of the designer? Or constructors. There should be a leading designer. Serpentine names cut the ear. This is not in Russian.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 29 October 2020 15: 27
      +1
      And there designers rule, not constructors. An old pistol is taken, plastic is hung, chpok-bunch and a new pistol is ready.
      The designer's task is to make a mechanism, and not to spank the Picatinny bar.
  14. Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 27 October 2020 18: 16
    +3
    Is the PL no longer relevant?
    1. maktub
      maktub 27 October 2020 19: 04
      0
      In my opinion, amateurish (I did not carry anything except Makarych in the RAM laughing ) the opinion of the PL-15k is better adapted for concealed carrying (flat, with a minimum of protruding parts, the fuse is recessed, and the weight is normal. As for me, 9/21 for the Ministry of Internal Affairs is rather excessive
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 27 October 2020 20: 01
        +3
        So for the Ministry of Internal Affairs standard Luger 9x19
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 27 October 2020 20: 12
          0
          Quote: vladcub
          So for the Ministry of Internal Affairs standard Luger 9x19

          So the submarine is just under it (Luger 9x19).
          9/21 is just right for special forces. Well, for submachine guns - at least for the police, at least for the special forces (instead of AKSu).
          PS
          But there were also cartridges 9x23 (either Bergmann, or Largo, or Steyr), 9x25 (9mm Mauser Export)
          1. maktub
            maktub 27 October 2020 20: 23
            0
            Just saw what is already in the "plastic" and how much does it weigh now?
        2. maktub
          maktub 27 October 2020 20: 16
          0
          I tupanul, however, something caught my eyes on 9/21. Probably clipped thinking, although I read the article to the end.
          Getting old laughing
    2. infantryman2020
      infantryman2020 27 October 2020 19: 37
      +3
      And, in fact, the PL is handsome compared to this freak. Straight space blaster!
      (I'm only talking about design, fighting qualities, I think they are comparable)
    3. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
      Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 27 October 2020 22: 11
      0
      So it seems that the Russian Guard has already chosen for itself. By the way, it really looks much better than the snake series and should sit better in the hand. He also has a compact model.
  15. Laksamana besar
    Laksamana besar 27 October 2020 18: 21
    +1
    "Poloz" and "Aspid" caliber 9x19:

    Full-size version of "Aspid":
  16. KSVK
    KSVK 27 October 2020 19: 19
    -4
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka

    And the last question, for what purpose is the Rossguard weapon for concealed carrying?

    The guardsmen are NECESSARY of the weapon of concealed carrying. You just don't quite probably understand their tasks. The warriors don't need him. Everything is clear there. And "vovany" to fight the INNER enemy. Those. with those who live in our country. And I am more than sure that they will receive new weapons in the first place.
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 27 October 2020 20: 00
      +3
      All right
      The internal enemy - as, for example, the events in Belarus show - is becoming more dangerous than the external one.
      There are no fools to climb into Russia from the outside, but those who want to ride from the inside and crank up another color Soros revolution are a dime a dozen.
      And after all, tenacious, bastards, even a Novice cannot poison. He does not take them!
    2. Terenin
      Terenin 27 October 2020 20: 24
      +4
      Quote: KSVK
      The guardsmen are NECESSARY of the weapon of concealed carrying.
      The guardsmen are the personal guard of Ivan the Terrible. So what?

      Quote: KSVK
      You just don't quite probably understand their tasks.
      Well, at least one "understanding" comrade was found.

      Quote: KSVK
      The warriors don't need him

      Quote: KSVK
      Everything is clear there
      Not slogans, but a "masterpiece" of reasoning.

      Quote: KSVK
      And "vovany" to fight the INNER enemy. Those. with those who live in our country.
      I sympathize. And what kind of country is this, in which only enemies and Vovans live?

      Quote: KSVK
      And I am more than sure that they will receive new weapons in the first place.
      And who is the second?
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 28 October 2020 20: 48
        +1
        It is quite possible that the KSVK does not even remember those guardsmen. By the way, who remembers what signs the guardsmen had and what did they mean?
        I somehow got into a conversation with a former classmate, I was an excellent student, but he doesn't remember a fig anymore and says that Skuratov was with Godunov.
        1. Terenin
          Terenin 28 October 2020 20: 52
          +3
          Quote: vladcub
          It is quite possible that the KSVK does not even remember those guardsmen. By the way, who remembers what signs the guardsmen had and what did they mean?
          I somehow got into a conversation with a former classmate, I was an excellent student, but he doesn't remember a fig anymore and says that Skuratov was with Godunov.

          smile Yes, it can be confused. Godunov was indeed married to Maria Skuratova-Belskaya, the daughter of the most famous oprichnik, Grigory Skuratov, better known as Malyuta.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 29 October 2020 15: 25
            +1
            Perhaps, he could have forgotten. Many of us don’t remember what they taught at school.
    3. Konnick
      Konnick 30 October 2020 10: 39
      0
      Concealed wearing? And where to hide in the summer? These are just fine words. I watched a detective story for a long time, old, I don't remember French or Italian. There the bodyguard used a folder for papers with a zip lock, which was open and there was a decent-sized pistol of the Colt 1911 type. As soon as danger arose, he would draw a pistol from this folder and was in kings. Well, like the ladies in the movies, the spies get the trunk out of their handbags ...
  17. TechPriest
    TechPriest 27 October 2020 19: 41
    -1
    And why would the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the National Guard need concealed carry pistols?
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 27 October 2020 19: 58
      +6
      For the same, why they are operational officers of the same FBI.
      Or the CIA.
      For employees who are at work in civilian clothes.
      And what, all over the world it is possible, but in our country there is tyranny / oprichnina / for shooting those who think? Or is it different?
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 27 October 2020 21: 01
      +1
      Oppositionists at rallies to shoot in the back of the head, for what else?
      Or, do you not believe that in the Russian Federation there were PMs with an attack of less than one hundred thousand in the progressive liberal community?
    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 October 2020 22: 03
      +3
      Quote: TechPriest
      And why would the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the National Guard need concealed carry pistols?

      Rosgvardia is self-indulgence, the police have operational units for them without hidden weapons in any way.
      1. Captain45
        Captain45 28 October 2020 10: 27
        +1
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        Rosgvardia is self-indulgence, the police have operational units for them without hidden weapons in any way.

        Regarding the National Guard ..., perhaps for a start, we need to remember which units are part of the National Guard. After all, in addition to the licensing and permitting and non-departmental service, all the power units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs - councils, riot police and other special forces - were included there. Now it’s not what it used to be, it used to be a barrel from the safe to the hut and itself to be detained. Now, nevertheless, the correct ones are mowing everything to the West, the detention is carried out exclusively by the security forces, and since detention is carried out depending on the circumstances, then the employees may be in civilian clothes. Therefore, concealed carry weapons for such units is a necessity. Moreover, now the specialists have trunks for almost every occasion, it used to be one "Makarov" used both in the shooting range, and to capture, and open beer.
  18. vladcub
    vladcub 27 October 2020 19: 58
    +2
    Quote: Thrifty
    It remains to make a pistol "Uzh" chambered for 5,45! There will be a "hot series"!

    Apparently, there, in addition to the main specialty, they are also engaged in herpentology, that they brought a serpentarium
  19. poquello
    poquello 27 October 2020 21: 15
    +1
    it is clear that the serpentine series of names, but))))))))))))))
    The UPOLZ on the tongue is spinning)))))))))))))))))))))
  20. senima56
    senima56 27 October 2020 22: 33
    0
    "Shooting from a new pistol was organized in Patriot Park." There was only one video on YouTube about shooting him! And it's a pity - the pistol is interesting, it could have been more about it!
  21. zwlad
    zwlad 28 October 2020 08: 54
    +2
    I look at the picture and do not understand in any way - What place is it for hidden wearing then?
    While you will get him 10 times for something to catch on the kmk.
    1. beeper
      beeper 28 October 2020 10: 36
      +1
      Quote: zwlad
      I look at the picture and do not understand in any way - What place is it for hidden wearing then?
      While you will get him 10 times for something to catch on the kmk.

      good
      hi Also, the same thoughts immediately arise! yes
  22. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 28 October 2020 13: 22
    +1
    What are the dimensions and weight of the "Snake" - "Aspid"? Outwardly I don't like him
  23. acetophenon
    acetophenon 28 October 2020 22: 09
    +1
    I don’t use pistols, so I’ll ask, "Why would a pistol have a Picatinny rail for concealed carry?"
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 29 October 2020 14: 41
      0
      What do you mean why? For concealed wearing of a collimator or optical sight so that no one can see. wassat
  24. Konnick
    Konnick 29 October 2020 14: 42
    0
    Normal cartridges are needed, not pistols.
  25. Konnick
    Konnick 29 October 2020 14: 46
    0
    Yes, it seems that the designers-obscurantists, and not the designers, rule at the arms factories. Fundamentally nothing new, made the Boa constrictor with a powerful cartridge, so you can shoot with only two hands at a target, and with one without a target.
  26. Konnick
    Konnick 29 October 2020 14: 54
    +1
    Once I saw a program about pistols. There was a test - a commando with a pistol bursts into a room with different partitions and dummies and temporarily hits the dummy targets. Defeated ... PM, while after the super-duper pistols the arm of the commandos is still moving after recoil, the arm with the PM makes an aimed shot. Excessive power played a cruel joke. This is not to shoot at a target while holding a pistol with both hands, but to shoot in different directions and forward, backward, sideways.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 29 October 2020 18: 47
      0
      Yes, I forgot to say, the transmission of the Discovery Channel.
  27. Alexfly
    Alexfly 29 October 2020 14: 59
    +1
    Nothing better than TT NO! It's time for those who like shooting to make TT2, slightly modernized, but in its own caliber!
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. erased
    erased 29 October 2020 19: 48
    +1
    This pistol should be called Elusive Joe. Because he is fucking unnecessary! This toy is larger in size than the PM, in full gear it is heavier than the PM, and hardly anyone wants to carry such a miracle in a holster while constantly wearing it. But what loot can be raised with the complete rearmament of the Ministry of Internal Affairs! .. That's already enviable.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 30 October 2020 10: 31
      +1
      But how beautiful and fashionable. Boasting such a toy is cute.
  30. Generator Systems
    Generator Systems 30 October 2020 00: 28
    -1
    Fuse from PM who would doubt belay