Military Review

Britain sells "white elephant" to Ukraine?

123
One of the Qatari Vita-class boats at full speed

According to Ukrainian military publications, London will provide Kiev with a loan of $ 1,6 billion (£ 1,2 billion) for a period of 10 years for military needs. And supposedly with this money, Ukraine will be obliged to buy 8 missile boats from Britain. In fact, this is a typical British imposition on the dark aborigines of the "white elephant" in the form of an outdated cruiser or battleship, so fashionable in the British Empire at the time of its power.


Zrada or peremoga?


The first question that comes to mind is: where does the United Kingdom have so much money, which has gotten involved with Brexit and does not have enough money even for its own army in its current extremely curtailed form? And who is planning another cut on the half-dead body of its decayed military machine? One of the cherries on the future cake will most likely be a triumphant release from "obsolete and unnecessary" tanks "Challenger-2" and BMP "Warrior".

But, apparently, giving money to the Ukrainian elite seems more important to the government of Boris Johnson than to its armed forces. Moreover, the money will eventually end up in the pockets of British corporations, for which, apparently, everything was started. So what kind of boats are these and shouldn't the Ukrainians dance the hopak to celebrate the next "peremogi"?

It has long been noticed that the cycle of the turnover of the merciless wheel of fate, which constantly turns the next Ukrainian "change" into Ukrainian "zrada", is gradually decreasing. But in this situation, even the narrators and akyns of Ukrainian "peremogs" in the media and blogs somehow became depressed. Painfully ambiguous information is leaking out.

Bond Street Junk Boats


The fact is that the boats, as reported in Ukraine, will be 50 m long and have a standard displacement of 400 tons, and the project developed by the Vosper Thornicroft company (then became part of the VT Group and is now controlled by BAE Systems Surface Ships) fits these parameters. ) back in the second half of the 80s, especially for export. It is called the Vita (or Barzan-class), and four such boats were sold to Qatar in the late 4s. Such a boat is armed with a 80-mm gun mount "Oto Melara Super Rapid", 76 subsonic anti-ship missiles "Exocet" MM-8, MANPADS "Mistral", anti-aircraft artillery complex (ZAK) "Goalkeeper".

This project "Vosper Thornycroft" had enough relatives. The Omani Navy was supplied with 4 Province-type missile boats (named after the provinces of the Sultanate), with very similar characteristics - 390 tons, 56 m long, armed with the same Italian gun mount, also 8 (in part only 6) MM-40 Exocet anti-ship missiles, 40-mm anti-aircraft gun mount "Breda" Italian production. These boats were delivered in the first half of the 80s, and they themselves are based on the project of boats of the Ramadan type for the Egyptian Navy, which have been supplied since 1981. That is, the project is quite ancient. Two more boats of the same design as for Oman were sold to Kenya in 2, and they differ in armament: 1987 Otomat anti-ship missiles, another set of small-caliber artillery.

One of the Greek boats of the Super Vita type

There is also a larger modification, the Super Vita, also known as the Roussen-class, such ships were and continue to be built for the Greek Navy. These ships are 580 tons of standard (668 tons of full) displacement and 62 m in length. navy, most likely, would be called small missile ships, MRK. The displacement is slightly less than the "Karakurt" currently under construction in large quantities. And with weapons there is about the same as those of the above boats. The same 8 Exocet MM-40 subsonic anti-ship missiles, the same Italian gun mount, two 30-mm cannons, but there is a RAM-type self-defense air defense system with 21 short-range missiles RIM-116. An amusing came out with these boats история... The boats were built in Greece, of course, with a gradually increasing degree of localization, in two batches of 3 and 4 pieces. And if the first three were put into operation quickly - in 2002-2004. launched, and in 2005-2006. put into operation, then the second batch went badly - the first pair was launched in 2005-2006, commissioned in 2010 and 2015, respectively, the third boat, laid down with the rest, was launched in 2018, and put into operation in operation two months ago! The last boat was launched a week after the commissioning of its predecessor - on August 5 this year, but it is not known when it will be commissioned.

In general, some of these "wonderful" and "modern" ships were offered (or not especially and asked their consent) to the dimwitted Kiev bosses. Considering how Zelenskiy lay in front of Johnson and even the head of MI6 intelligence, with whom the president of the country had to meet somehow out of order, it was probably not difficult to get their consent. In this regard, the "Patriots" recall Zelensky's virtuoso playing the piano, and the stories that he, at his age, turns out to be "not a sucker."

The sadness-melancholy of the Cossack seized


In the near-war circles of non-brotherly neighbors, they somehow immediately became sad. I somehow don't want to buy an ancient project that has nothing to do with stealth technologies and generally modern technologies, especially at such a price. Perhaps the outlines of these boats will be modernized, the sides, as usual, will be filled up, but it will be based on the same project. Which of the same "Lightning-M" pr. 12411 will be better only because it is new, and what will be at hand, if any, but in all other respects it will yield to it. And the price tag turns out to be solid, and even the assertion that only the first 2 boats will be built by the British, and the rest will supposedly be built at Ukrainian shipyards, does not comfort the "patriots". First, the most adequate of them understand that this deal, coupled with the supply of Mk-VI patrol boats from the United States and the sale of the ancient "Islands", puts an end to Ukrainian attempts to build something on their own. The end of the eternal epic of sawing pennies on the "construction" of the corvette "Volodimer the Great", and Poroshenko (from the shipyard "Kuznya na Rybalskiy") missile boats of the "Lan" type, which he pushes through. To build these boats at Ukrainian shipyards, they will have to be lifted from the ruins, recruited and trained workers and engineers, and purchased equipment. How long will it take? As if the Greek anti-record with boats was not beaten, and many times. Or they just abandon the project.

In addition, Ukraine is unlikely to be allowed to complete the assembly cycle of ships, but will be instructed to weld the hulls, well, there is something else, on trifles. And all the rest will have to be purchased, and then spend a lot of money on maintenance and spare parts. With the integration of Ukrainian aggregates and systems, which is dreamed of in Kiev, there will also be "zrada": the British will not do this, they need to give money to their enterprises, not Ukrainian ones. And what kind of systems are they? Those that exist only in Poroshenko's dreams for installation on his desired "Doe"? There they also invented some kind of air defense system, for example, which are not and will not be. Although the Ukrainians hope that the Neptune anti-ship missiles will be installed instead of the Exocets. We also hope that they will be. Considering how the "tests" of this system were carried out, you can be calm about your ships and boats. The launches took place in ideal calm conditions (the RCS of the target from sea waves can change abruptly by 10-15 times), strictly to the side along the normal (from the viewpoint of the target, the RCS changes by an order of magnitude or more), moreover, at the target of a very solid size, studded with almost ten corner reflectors creating EPR, probably, tankers of the Aframax or Suezmax type. Such a "product" unless it misses the shore. But, most likely, the British do not want that some aborigines took their money. Better yet, the French with the Exocets.

True, the assertions of the "patriots" that if you give this money to your shipyards, they will build boats and corvettes for this money, of course, also have no basis whatsoever. They will definitely be able to "master" this money. Perhaps some of the buzz surrounding the proposed deal is being directed by those who can "master the funds" better than any English. For example, Pyotr Alekseich will definitely be able to, we believe in him.

And you, friends, no matter how you sit down, you are not suitable for sailors


Yes, and outdated boats will not give the Ukrainian Navy anything in the confrontation with the KCHF of the Russian Navy. As, however, will give nothing and ultramodern. In the pool, where every corner is shot by supersonic Russian anti-ship missiles, where our aviation, these boats will not fight anything. And, taking into account the real "Cossack" fighting spirit of the "wetcoats", which was clearly manifested in the "victorious" for the Ukrainian Navy, the "Kerch battle", everything will boil down to the fact that then, having received more ships from captivity, the Ukrainians will accuse the Black Sea sailors of stealing now already British plumbing.

But this is at best. Because a much more likely option is that in the event of another collision with the Russian Navy, no one will bother and clatter with larger and armed ships, they will simply be drowned without any fancy and games in "Press him" and offers to surrender the ships. Even the “patriots,” except for the most frostbitten ones, understand this implicitly, so they feel sad. The safest type of ship for the Ukrainian Navy is the Cossack Seagull. They will simply laugh at her and will not touch her. True, the reenactors may attack.
Author:
Photos used:
www.naval-technology.com
123 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Alexey Sommer
    Alexey Sommer 18 October 2020 05: 25 New
    22
    Ukraine is not an independent state and will do and buy what its owners tell it.
    But I want to add. The fact that a hostile state from a once truly fraternal country has appeared on the edge of Russia is not only due to our "partners". Our leaders have made a decisive contribution to this.
    1. BDRM 667
      BDRM 667 18 October 2020 05: 33 New
      +4
      And you, friends, no matter how you sit down, you are not suitable for sailors


      EPITAPH (inscription on the gravestone) ...

      1. Simargl
        Simargl 18 October 2020 10: 11 New
        0
        Quote: BDRM 667
        EPITAPH
        Of course I have. The ends.
        1. aakvit
          aakvit 19 October 2020 20: 34 New
          +1
          Rough, but sure! drinks
    2. Snail N9
      Snail N9 18 October 2020 05: 38 New
      15
      Okay, at least this 1,2 billion from the UK will go for junk. But "what did they go for" or in whose pockets the 3 billion Russian money given by kind Russia to Yanukovych is crammed, is an interesting question.
      1. BDRM 667
        BDRM 667 18 October 2020 06: 03 New
        +6
        Quote: Snail N9
        But "what did they go for" or in whose pockets the 3 billion Russian money given by kind Russia to Yanukovych is crammed, is an interesting question.

        Obviously, part of the money was spent on the war against the rebellious Donbass, and part, apparently not small, settled in the pockets of the junta that came to power.

        In short, everything is as in the well-known Ukrainian proverb - "With our lard, and in the face for us"
        1. Avior
          Avior 18 October 2020 08: 14 New
          +9
          I suspect that they did not reach the junta, and their remnants can easily be found in Rostov. Yanukovych is not the right person to leave money to someone smile
          1. BDRM 667
            BDRM 667 18 October 2020 08: 20 New
            +3
            Quote: Avior
            I suspect that they did not reach the junta, and their remnants can easily be found in Rostov. Yanukovych is not the right person to leave money to someone

            You can suspect, and think at leisure, you can do anything, and about anything.
            But there is an indisputable fact that post-Maidan Ukraine did not declare that the money did not come to them at all, or was taken away by "the evil ruler of Yanukovych," but simply stupidly refused to return them to us.

            Simple and without much diplomatic antics.
            1. Avior
              Avior 18 October 2020 10: 01 New
              +5
              Even as stated. In different variations. Including that was taken out directly or in a roundabout way, through securities and loans.
              And they refused to return the money, because it was a political loan.
              Now they are suing.
              And the indisputable fact is that they refuse to return the money, here you are completely right.
      2. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 18 October 2020 06: 21 New
        -7
        The most interesting thing is that two days ago, on Ukrainian sources, I read the interpretation of this news ALL differently:

        The UK will provide a loan of 1,2 billion pounds for a period of 10 years for a targeted program to strengthen the Ukrainian Navy. Basically - for the construction of 10 large missile boats, two of which will be supplied from the UK, and 8 - built in Nikolaev.

        The Ukrainian side was somewhat embarrassed that this boat project is being built first. And there is no way to be sure that there are no childhood diseases.

        And NO word about vtyuhivanie old "Leclerc", or something else was not there. I don't know what sources the author used.
        1. BDRM 667
          BDRM 667 18 October 2020 07: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          The most interesting thing is that two days ago, on Ukrainian sources, I read the interpretation of this news ALL differently:


          You wrote a comment with the expectation that they would take your word for it, just because of the mention "Ukrainian sources"(not named by you)?

          "Ukrainian sources"... Who still believes in Ukraine?

          More than that - Who will believe YOU after such comments - " I somewhere, I read something like that from Ukrainian sources "?
          1. Holgerton
            Holgerton 18 October 2020 11: 16 New
            +8
            At the very least, the human-cited version is a more plausible option than the quasi-analytical guano that the author of this article issued.
            Initially, how it all began, that on all sorts of channels / blogs devoted to the topic of military-technical cooperation, mentions of an impending deal appeared and abrupt characteristics of the British project of boats leaked out, then there were critics of the commander of the Naval Forces of Ukraine that the boats are a completely new and untested project and they do not have air defense means. What the author writes, he writes that Britain offers outdated previously built options, equipped with either a ZAK-MANPADS or a ZAU-ZRK near-field. On this, following your own logic, it was already possible not to take his word for it, since he does not indicate the sources, but first of all he simply zvizdit. Because such a selective trust / disbelief of "Ukrainian sources" is an independent pouring of some brown substance into the ears.
            Well, okay, let's leave it on the author's conscience, but let's continue, the author conveniently does not mention the main point, or rather, directly focuses on the opposite, introducing a cool "zrada" passionately adored by VO readers:
            But, apparently, giving money to the Ukrainian elite seems more important to the government of Boris Johnson than to its armed forces. Moreover, the money will end up in the pockets of British corporations.

            Purely so that you cannot reproach me for "untrue Ukrainian sources" (how ironic it sounds, given that ours, Russian, that in the VO, that the rest are still stars), in the domestic profile organization Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) whispered in your ear that in order to approve the loan, the share of British companies in the project must be at least 20-30% of the contract value, and so they can order ships from anyone, just buy a significant part of the equipment from the British.
            As a result, of the three options under consideration, the most likely is the Turkish one, offering small corvettes with localization in the NW of the Nibulon group.
            Given your nickname 667BDRM, I really want to believe that in the topic of maritime military-technical cooperation you are more educated than the author of the current article and know how to correlate the simplest facts.
            1. BDRM 667
              BDRM 667 18 October 2020 11: 32 New
              +1
              Quote: Holgerton
              At least the human-mentioned version is a more believable option.

              The minimum that should be in mentioning a person of the version "not from himself" but "from Ukraine" as a source is LINK that he "somewhere", "once" read ...

              On the fence too, you can read a lot yes .

              In other matters, if you look at it, the "Ukrainian sources" in general are not very different from what is written on the fence ...
              1. Holgerton
                Holgerton 18 October 2020 15: 08 New
                0
                In principle, and this is true, I do not argue with this, but it depends on which sources to read, and whose insiders to believe, from the Ukrainian it is probably Defense Express (namely the unpublished part) and to some extent the CDACR, but for this you need to either a thorough work, or know the people associated with it, and the author of the current reading clearly did not have either the first or the second.
                For example, the same CAST takes information from the lips of fairly reliable sources, for example, it can be their German / Turkish / Ukrainian / Polish / American / Belarusian / British colleagues in the shop, who, in turn, know trusted insiders.
                The bottom line is that the conditional Censor.net or Moskovsky Komsomolets obviously does not pull on something of any profile, and when the authors of a sufficiently specialized resource like Military Review begin to copy-paste from such resources, this discredits VO itself.
                And this has been happening for several years now, instead of thoughtful analytics, a product is being created for a "mass audience" in order to cut down more money.
      3. Ros 56
        Ros 56 18 October 2020 07: 48 New
        +1
        Medvedchuk will come after the clown, he will give it back. And to that everything goes
        1. Egoza
          Egoza 18 October 2020 07: 56 New
          0
          Quote: Ros 56
          Medvedchuk will come after the clown, he will give it back. And to that everything goes

          Your words to God in the ears! Although I strongly doubt it. It will be easier for the Nazis to overwhelm Medvedchuk than to let the authorities in. And do not forget that he is also a nationalist, albeit a pragmatic one. Those. will be "friends" with Russia.
          1. Ros 56
            Ros 56 18 October 2020 08: 00 New
            -1
            We will wait and see, do not forget about Donbass and the South-West.
          2. BDRM 667
            BDRM 667 18 October 2020 08: 44 New
            +1
            Quote: Egoza
            do not forget that he is also a nationalist, albeit a pragmatic one. Those. will be "friends" with Russia.

            Funny "godfathers" and "partners" are chosen by Putin for himself (and for us, "forcibly") ...

            In general, we are talking about any sane policy regarding Ukraine, and in general, in the post-Soviet space from the Kremlin, you can lead by looking at these attempts to rely on at least someone, even a bald devil ("pragmatic nationalist" Medvedchuka )?

            What then is not a CHUK - Kravchuk, dragged in childhood Bandera in caches to devour?

            1. perm23
              perm23 20 October 2020 16: 59 New
              -1
              Under the USSR, there was a sane policy in relation to all republics. they are all but the RSFSR is not. after Stalin, only Ukrainians in power and what they got
        2. RoTTor
          RoTTor 18 October 2020 20: 40 New
          0
          Governor-General of Little Russia as part of the Russian Federation
      4. D16
        D16 18 October 2020 09: 09 New
        +2
        into whose pockets the 3 billion Russian money given by kind Russia to Yanukovych is stuffed is an interesting question.

        Nobody gave any money. This money was "spent" laughing long before. Debts, which even then there was nothing to return, were reissued in the form of state. loan.
    3. Asad
      Asad 18 October 2020 05: 43 New
      +5
      Were ashamed to use up a bunch of Natsiks, but how many years will we disentangle them? You can endlessly laugh at the army of Ukraine, but the “partners” will gradually arm them, and there will be an enemy on the border that they will not mind letting go into battle with us!
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 19 October 2020 07: 38 New
        0
        And we will not mind turning them into dust, this bunch of Natsiks, but to the enthusiastic ovation of the West. After all, we will not fight hand-to-hand with them, and Tosochka and Buratinka will be enough for them.
        1. perm23
          perm23 20 October 2020 17: 00 New
          0
          It's not that simple. they will have everything too. No need to throw hats, it was already in 1941. also thought that once and for all
          1. Ros 56
            Ros 56 21 October 2020 08: 15 New
            0
            Well, there is no need to equate our weapons of 1941 (by the way, there were many for the Germans in a curiosity) with the current one.
            1. perm23
              perm23 21 October 2020 09: 51 New
              0
              So the enemy is also not a bow and a club. they, too, are ready to throw in if something happens friends weapons are not worse than ours. It is the dream of Western friends to fight with us by others. The same Afghanistan showed us this.
    4. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 18 October 2020 06: 19 New
      0
      Quote: Alexey Sommer
      Our leaders have made a decisive contribution to this.

      Are you there already cuckoo? Of course, it was Russian leaders who wrote Ukrainian history textbooks, Russian leaders banned the Russian language, leaving only Ukrainian as the only state language, Russian leaders awarded Bender with the title of Hero of Ukraine, Russian leaders held the Maidan and brought the frozen Bender-Nazi government to power.
      The pots have only one answer to all his troubles and misfortunes - Russia is to blame for everything! And the fact that he himself has galloped up his troubles and misfortunes will not even come to him in his empty pan.
      1. Stas157
        Stas157 18 October 2020 07: 26 New
        +3
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        You are there already cuckoo? Of course, it was Russian leaders who wrote Ukrainian textbooks.

        And you have a very low opinion of Russia!
        Here you need to decide who to consider today's Russia. Or a superpower, the empire from which Ukraine split off like a splinter, or is Russia the same splinter from a single whole, like Ukraine itself?

        Is Russia a subject or an object of politics? If the latter, then you are absolutely right - Russia does not bear any guilt for the anti-Russian processes in Ukraine, since the slave "object" is not responsible for anything.
        But, nevertheless, it seems to me that the majority thinks differently.
        1. BDRM 667
          BDRM 667 18 October 2020 07: 46 New
          +2
          Quote: Stas157
          Is Russia a subject or an object of politics?

          "Objective-subjective assessment" Russia, according to its assessment on the basis of actions on the foreign policy contour, is not rewarding work ...

          In the analysis we see both "peaks" and "dips", which sometimes leads to a stupor.
      2. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 18 October 2020 07: 51 New
        +8
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya

        Are you there already cuckoo? Of course, it was Russian leaders who wrote Ukrainian history textbooks, Russian leaders banned the Russian language, leaving only Ukrainian as the only state language, Russian leaders awarded Bender with the title of Hero of Ukraine, Russian leaders held the Maidan and brought the frozen Bender-Nazi government to power.

        And what did the Russian leaders do to prevent this from happening? But nothing! They should have! What did the ambassadors in Ukraine do? Zurabov tried to drink pills for the common cold, and Chernomyrdin entertained the party on an accordion. And at this time the ambassadors of Zap. countries and the United States were preparing what happened in 13-14. And you say ...
        1. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 18 October 2020 08: 18 New
          -3
          And they shouldn't have done anything. Ukraine was a sovereign country before the Maidan. And it is not Russia’s fault that the pots themselves gave their country to the United States and Britain as a colony. You don't seem to remember all that Maidan frenzy among the Sumerians, when they shouted in response to our persuasions and explanations that they were being turned into a colony.
        2. RoTTor
          RoTTor 18 October 2020 20: 42 New
          +3
          Chernomyrdin was engaged in personal affairs
          and once a year, on the Day of Russia, he would throw a gorgeous reception with a generous meal and a gorgeous concert.
        3. perm23
          perm23 20 October 2020 17: 03 New
          +1
          As in any family, the most difficult thing is divorce. So here. and our ambassadors have nothing to do with it and the leadership. the wife decided that only a man had a good penis on the side and there was more money there. and no persuasion can stop. only money was possible, but we ourselves do not have such a quantity.
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 20 October 2020 23: 44 New
            0
            Quote: perm23
            As in any family, the most difficult thing is divorce. So here. and our ambassadors have nothing to do with it and the leadership. the wife decided that only a man had a good penis on the side and there was more money there. and no persuasion can stop. only money was possible, but we ourselves do not have such a quantity.

            The primitivization of the situation to the level of penis size leads to serious errors. And you succeeded. With which I congratulate you.
            1. perm23
              perm23 21 October 2020 07: 34 New
              0
              Sorry, I thought I was talking here with an intelligent person who understands at least something. But apparently I was mistaken ..
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 21 October 2020 08: 02 New
                0
                Quote: perm23
                Sorry, I thought I was talking here with an intelligent person who understands at least something. But apparently I was mistaken ..

                No, you just do not understand the role and significance of the ambassador in the country.
                And the Americans understand this well. Therefore, our Foreign Ministry is defeated in all, without exception, post-Soviet countries. Thanks to the toothlessness of our Foreign Ministry, we have no allies. Which of the CSTO countries have recognized Crimea? I won't even talk about anything else - there are failures everywhere. Belarus as an example for you.
                1. perm23
                  perm23 21 October 2020 09: 49 New
                  +1
                  And what has to do with only the Foreign Ministry and the ambassador. do not exaggerate everything. You didn’t want to understand what I wrote to you. It was possible to keep Ukraine only by putting on a new fur coat and giving it jewelry every time. as soon as she gets capricious. as with a child than a child did not amuse himself, just not to cry. We did this already in the USSR, we dressed and kept a picture of the Baltic states and what we got
                  1. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 21 October 2020 18: 31 New
                    0
                    Quote: perm23
                    And what has to do with only the Foreign Ministry and the ambassador. do not exaggerate everything.

                    And I'm not exaggerating. I'm comparing. How did the US ambassador work (he practically led the Maidan. And the Maidan did not arise by itself. It was prepared, including by the US ambassador.) And the "work" of our ambassador. He sat like a mouse under a broom. Has Russia not found the means to buy a TV channel? Buy one daily edition? Yes, they would be found if Ukraine was closely engaged, like the United States. And there would be no Maidan. And Ukraine would be in the customs union and the CSTO. And Russia would not have to invest huge funds to start producing products previously supplied by Ukraine. Half of these funds would be enough to buy all Ukrainian media outlets. And you say - what does the Foreign Ministry have to do with it?
                    Quote: perm23
                    It was only possible to keep Ukraine by putting on a new fur coat on it every time and giving

                    Don't talk nonsense, it hurts. You say that, like Ukraine is asleep, does nothing, and Russia feeds it. What nonsense. The economic potential of Ukraine is the second after Russia, in any case it was under the USSR. Listen to you, Ukrainians are so lazy, and you are such a workaholic .... In what, and in laziness, Ukrainians cannot be blamed.
    5. RoTTor
      RoTTor 18 October 2020 20: 22 New
      +4
      Definitely ...
      About ... they blinked - all 35 years, when the fraternal union republic from a "stagnation reserve" turned into a nursery-nursery for all kinds of evil spirits and infection ..
      So the bad husband is the last to know that he has huge, spreading horns.
      And none of the Foreign Ministry, SVR, GRU, etc., who were responsible for the complete failure in the Ukrainian direction, were punished to the fullest extent.
    6. perm23
      perm23 20 October 2020 16: 54 New
      0
      and you can find out what leaders and what they were guilty of then. the partners and friends did really well, the brothers apparently turned out to be such that they were ready to sell themselves for money to anyone. Although there is truth in your words since the times of the USSR, all the films about them have always been praised by the Ukrainian SSR. created there for people, as in the baltics, the confidence that all that is is only their great merit
    7. Evgenii Xolod
      Evgenii Xolod 10 November 2020 20: 16 New
      0
      And how would you act in the place of our leaders, your steps can be voiced .... Give criticism and suggestions.
      1. Alexey Sommer
        Alexey Sommer 10 November 2020 21: 29 New
        0
        Time has already passed. In the 90s, it was necessary to keep a close eye on the Ukrainian media and appoint leaders by Ukraine through the media. And we introduced them to ourselves, the US and the EU took advantage of this. Now they have already brought up the second generation of ardent nationalists there.
        Now we need to somehow work with people there, carefully, without sudden movements.
        To inform them that we are one people, whatever one may say. Not fraternal peoples, but one, simply divided.
  2. Ovsigovets
    Ovsigovets 18 October 2020 06: 08 New
    +2
    we take and look at the budget of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine for 2020 (I think there will not be much difference for 2021) and look there at the development and purchase of new equipment and consider ..... that's why the Ukrainians want what, they don't want - but they don't have a penny to go overboard .. ... the "queen" said this project, so this one will be .... and your task is the Ukrainians to pay the loan with% and not buzz
  3. Alex 1970
    Alex 1970 18 October 2020 06: 16 New
    +5
    Old or not, but in any case armed and to arrange a bloody provocation among the otmorezhennye Natsiks with his help on our borders would come to mind. So, of course, you can laugh and throw your hats, but the fact is still very unpleasant.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 18 October 2020 07: 59 New
      -4
      Quote: Alexey 1970
      Old or not, but in any case armed and to arrange a bloody provocation from the frozen Natsiks with his help on our borders would come to mind

      Exactly. Ancient ukram - ancient ships! And let them just try to "fool around" at the borders! They will go to the bottom right away.
  4. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 18 October 2020 06: 21 New
    0
    So that's great. The more pots you get bogged down in credit, the better.
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 18 October 2020 07: 53 New
      -6
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      So that's great. The more pots you get bogged down in credit, the better.

      Who? Think narrowly.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 18 October 2020 08: 15 New
        -4
        To all Russians. Ukraine is the enemy of Russia, the enemy is cruel and merciless. But the arms are short at the pots. If they could, they would have massacred all the Russians, as in their time they massacred all Poles in Galicia and Volyn.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 19 October 2020 17: 50 New
          0
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          To all Russians. Ukraine is the enemy of Russia, the enemy is cruel and merciless.

          Take valerian and calm down. Better yet, take care of the mice.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 19 October 2020 18: 26 New
            0
            Will you rub in on the "brotherly people" again? Well, I do not! Since 1654 you have only sucked blood like a leech in Russia, and are always ready to betray Russia for the sake of cookies, as did Yuri Khmelnitsky, Mazepa, Petlyura, and especially Kuznetsov, Kravchuk, Kuchma, Yanukovych, Poroshenko father and son, who were ardent communists like the witch Farion.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 19 October 2020 18: 50 New
              0
              Quote: Kot_Kuzya
              Will you rub in on the "brotherly people" again?

              Cats do not understand that the people are neutral in their mass. Everything depends on the policy pursued by the government. Among the people, of course, there are supporters of rapprochement with Russia, as well as opponents of this, which you do not understand at all. Therefore, he is, for the most part, neutral. You are an opponent of rapprochement with Belarus, with Ukraine, and I am an ardent supporter of this. But we live in one state. The same is happening in Belarus and Ukraine. Am I making it clear?
              I repeat to you again - this is not yours. Your destiny is mice.
              1. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya 19 October 2020 19: 54 New
                0
                Don't write nonsense. Judging by the way 90% of the Sumerians ran to chase the Russophobes and Bendera's Poroshenko and Zelensky, it is simply stupid to talk about the "brotherhood" of peoples.
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 19 October 2020 21: 49 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                  Don't write nonsense. Judging by the way 90% of the Sumerians ran to chase the Russophobes and Bendera's Poroshenko and Zelensky, it is simply stupid to talk about the "brotherhood" of peoples.

                  I wanted to be surprised, but realized in time that cats cannot count. This is about 90%.
                  And about "brotherhood" .. And you know how to read? Or what do you think? I chewed this question up and put it in your mouth. It remains only to swallow, but you did not vouch for that either.
                  In general, there is only left - valerian.
              2. perm23
                perm23 20 October 2020 17: 08 New
                0
                Sorry, but you write nonsense. not a neutral people shooting at each other. Not a people that makes weapons ammunition goes to fight. And then the policy of the state .. it is only a reflection of the people. The Germans would not like to fight and conquer the world in their time. would not consider themselves a supernation and there would be no war
            2. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 19 October 2020 19: 03 New
              +1
              Quote: Kot_Kuzya
              Will you rub in on the "brotherly people" again?

              By the way, the West does not want unification of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. Europe and the United States. Well, plus you. Well, you have chosen your companions ...
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 20 October 2020 00: 15 New
                  0
                  Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                  Hang on yourself a 30 million loud, always disaffected herd?

                  And you are a bright representative of it. Go better catch mice.
                  1. Kot_Kuzya
                    Kot_Kuzya 20 October 2020 00: 44 New
                    -3
                    My cat Kuzya is smarter than people like you!
                    1. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 20 October 2020 09: 24 New
                      0
                      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                      My cat Kuzya is smarter than people like you!

                      Kuzya may be smarter in his herd. But as for you, I had great doubts.
                      Judge for yourself - our opponents in Europe and the United States are very afraid and make a lot of efforts so that, God forbid, Russia does not unite with Ukraine and Belarus. Because this unification will lead to the STRENGTHENING of Russia. Do they care about you, so that Russia "invests" in your pocket, and not in Belarus and Ukraine? Yeah, you are so dear to them laughing And, not wanting this unification, you do not want the STRENGTHENING of Russia. What conclusion can be drawn from this? Only two; You are either an enemy of Russia and work here for 30 pieces of silver, or you are dumber than your Kuzi
                      1. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 20 October 2020 09: 46 New
                        -2
                        Feed these "brothers" yourself, you don't have to speak for all Russians. These Bendera people galloping nafig did not give up to me. Let them jump and live as they want. I don't care about them.
          2. perm23
            perm23 20 October 2020 17: 05 New
            -1
            And yet he is right in many ways. this cat is Kuzya.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 20 October 2020 23: 54 New
              +1
              Quote: perm23
              And yet he is right in many ways. this cat is Kuzya.

              And what is he right about? Is that because of 20% he wrote the entire people of Ukraine into Bandera? Yes, even if there are 5% of them, but they will control all branches of government and the media as well, then all the cats in the world will have the illusion of their power and numbers.
              1. perm23
                perm23 21 October 2020 07: 32 New
                -1
                He's right about that. that the remaining 80 or 95% take it all calmly and also calmly go to work. races children send them to war and do not understand that all 100% of Bandera will gradually make of their children
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 21 October 2020 07: 43 New
                  +1
                  Quote: perm23
                  He's right about that. that the remaining 80 or 95% take it all calmly and also calmly go to work. races children send them to war and do not understand that all 100% of Bandera will gradually make of their children

                  And it is restless to perceive it as?
                  What would you do in a similar situation? 1. Wouldn't they let children go to school? 2. Would you go out to the square and shout that you are against Bandera? 3. Would you stop going to work?
                  I'm sure you wouldn't do any of this. You, like everyone else, would continue to work, paying the military tax, you would accompany the children to school, where they are hammered into their heads what Ukraine is good and Russia is bad. And so on and so on and so forth.
                  1. perm23
                    perm23 21 October 2020 09: 45 New
                    -1
                    Your suggestion. go save those 90%. laying down their lives. so that then they again somehow do not go after another 10%. How many years they lived together and what they got. How many years did you help brothers in Bulgaria and what in return
                    1. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 21 October 2020 17: 58 New
                      +1
                      Quote: perm23
                      Your suggestion. go save those 90%

                      This is how much you had to drink to find a similar offer in my posts?
                      I have not proposed and do not propose anything like this. But there is no need to add oil to the fire either. Patient and lengthy work to clarify the real state of affairs, that Russia is not an enemy of Ukraine, that all these horror stories about "Russia is the aggressor" are all notions of the Western special services. Well, etc.
                      And bawl that Ukraine is enemy number 1, etc. - stupid and harmful.
                      1. perm23
                        perm23 22 October 2020 07: 46 New
                        -1
                        And no one bawls that Ukraine is enemy number 1, but yelling like you that there are only brothers is also stupid. Sorry, but according to my opinion, you either drank or did not finish. in 2013, when there was no Crimea, not Donbass, in Lviv, they rode and shouted a moskolyak at a gilyak who you want to persuade. moron with a gun. who wants to shoot you. such only understands power. and if Ukraine had strength today, they attacked us long ago and at your home. were looting
                      2. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 22 October 2020 18: 08 New
                        +1
                        Quote: perm23
                        YOU want to persuade someone. moron with a gun. who wants

                        Of course not. But sowing the seed of doubt about the correctness of his choice is NECESSARY. And even if only half of those smothered by the pro-Western propaganda will sprout this grain, then this will already be our victory. You just do not know the power and significance of military propaganda.
                      3. perm23
                        perm23 22 October 2020 18: 26 New
                        0
                        I know. 1945 year. May white flags in German cities. BUT in May 1945 and not in June 41.. Any propaganda must be supported by military successes.
                      4. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 23 October 2020 09: 54 New
                        +1
                        Quote: perm23
                        I know

                        No, you don’t know. Combat propaganda is when the commander of a German submarine, listening to the English special. radio station. gave the order to surface and surrender to the British. This is me in a nutshell. In fact, the story is quite long.
  • RoTTor
    RoTTor 18 October 2020 20: 25 New
    0
    After the inevitable and inevitable reunification, those who made them will be personally responsible for the debts - what they stole and what will remain after the confiscation
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 18 October 2020 06: 45 New
    +1
    In general, the situation is interesting. Zelensky returned to Kiev considering himself a winner, but in reality? A loan at interest has been allocated, the money will not even leave the territory of Britain, instead of them there are 8 boats, which the Ukrainian "naval commanders" have not yet received are not satisfied with. In addition, Ukraine remains owed to England and even with interest. What is Zelensky's "victory" is not clear. Or he expects that in the future the British will place their base in Ukraine and flood the suffering with money.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 18 October 2020 08: 00 New
      -1
      Quote: rotmistr60
      expects that in the future the British will deploy their base in Ukraine

      Yes, he seems to be counting on two bases.
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 18 October 2020 22: 07 New
      0
      Ze is the winner. The Navy will be created. debts will be torn away and further removed from the RF.
      their debts are our joy and their pride. in the 90s we were also "happy": they gave us a loan, and soon they will be given the status of a market economy.
      we walked for a long time to the "12 chairs" - abroad will help us. "and if the Ukrians become part of the Western world, then they will be forgiven the loan in pounds, they will pay in blood
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 18 October 2020 06: 48 New
    +1
    a much more likely option is that in the event of another collision with the Russian Navy, no one will bother and clatter with larger and armed ships, they will simply be drowned without any fancy and games in "Press him" and offers to surrender the ships.
    so that the age-old dream of the bourgeoisie of all countries come true?
    So that the Russians would kill the Russians, and they would make money on it?
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 18 October 2020 08: 16 New
      -2
      Since when did Bendera become Russians? They are not brothers to us either in their homeland or in their mothers!
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 18 October 2020 08: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        Since when did Bendera become Russians?

        Well, first of all, not Banderites, but Banderites. By the name of their hero.
        Bendery is a city in Transnistria, there is no need to insult its inhabitants.
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        They are not brothers to us in their homeland

        Even 120 years ago, their great-grandfathers called themselves Russians, and only forced brainwashing made them "non-brothers".
        But, again, it is not a fact that even now all 100% of Ukrainians do not consider themselves Russians.
        1. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 18 October 2020 08: 45 New
          -3
          Quote: Jacket in stock
          Well, first of all, not Banderites, but Banderites

          I specifically write so that the pots of the dupa vomit, that they ruin the name of their "hero".
          Well, they were Russians 120 years ago, now they are no longer Russians, as all Argentines and Mexicans have become non-Spanish. And this cannot be returned. You need to live with modern realities, and not cling to the past.
          1. Jacket in stock
            Jacket in stock 18 October 2020 09: 02 New
            0
            Quote: Kot_Kuzya
            And it can't be returned. You need to live with modern realities,

            I agree about the story, let's go.
            About not to return, I want to doubt.
            If their brains are cleaned of Bandera noodles, many, I hope, can come to their senses.
            In the end, those "Ukrainians" who live here, for the most part, are quite sane people.
            And there maydan even all sorts of non-Slavs, from Caucasians to Yakuts.
          2. Niel-le-Calais
            Niel-le-Calais 18 October 2020 19: 58 New
            -2
            Quote: Kot_Kuzya
            I specifically write so that the pots of the dupa vomit, that they ruin the name of their "hero".

            and who is vomiting?
            Even among the Ukrainians, he is no longer a hero for a long time (the Donetsk court has officially deprived him of him and the appeal did not help. Officially he was deprived of his title long ago)
            When will the understanding of the decision of the Donetsk court come to the Runet ...
            10 years ago, lawyer Vladimir Olentsevich legally proved in court and since then has invariably proved the court's decision.
            1. Kot_Kuzya
              Kot_Kuzya 18 October 2020 20: 48 New
              0
              Don't write nonsense. And then why is there Bendery Avenue in Kuiv?
              1. Niel-le-Calais
                Niel-le-Calais 18 October 2020 21: 59 New
                -2
                Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                Don't write nonsense. And then why is there Bendery Avenue in Kuiv?

                The Supreme Administrative Court of Ukraine upheld the decision of the Donetsk Regional Administrative Court of April 2, 2010 and the determination of the decision of the Donetsk Administrative Court of Appeal of June 23, 2010, which declared illegal the decree of the third President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko of January 20, 2010 on awarding Stepan Bandera the title Hero of Ukraine.
                The panel of judges did not satisfy the cassation complaints of Yushchenko, Roman Shukhevych's son Yuri Shukhevych, Stepan Bandera (S. Bandera's grandson), VO Svoboda and a number of Ukrainian citizens against these decisions.
                As reported, President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko, by decree of January 22, 2010, awarded Bandera the title of Hero of Ukraine.
                On April 2, 2010, the Donetsk Regional Administrative Court stripped Bandera of the title of Hero of Ukraine, since he was not a citizen of Ukraine.
                The VASU made a similar decision regarding Yushchenko's decree on awarding the title of Hero of Ukraine to Roman Shukhevych.
                Refute the official decision of the Donetsk court with something.
                The name of Moskovsky and Vatutin Avenue is still undergoing litigation with varying success. Then one camp wins the second.
                Changes in streets and other things usually reflect the political aspirations of current parties, ideologies, etc.
                We still have a sign of how many times the streets have changed, for example, Tsarist times, Soviet, Ukrainian. And this is everywhere. And if you take the old cities there, everything has changed many times.
                And yet, I provided information that neither Bandera nor Shukhevych are Heroes of Ukraine.
                For the tenth year!
                1. Kot_Kuzya
                  Kot_Kuzya 19 October 2020 04: 49 New
                  +1
                  Don't write nonsense. Vlasov was never given the title of Hero of Russia, and avenues in Moscow were not named after him. And Russian history textbooks do not write that Vlasov "fought for the liberation of the peoples of Russia." And crowds of Russians do not rally with portraits of Vlasov, chanting the slogan "Bender is our hera!" Whereas all of the above is observed in Ukraine. So Bender's "hero" for the Ukrainians? Taking into account the above factors, it is definitely "hera".
                  1. Niel-le-Calais
                    Niel-le-Calais 19 October 2020 10: 07 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                    Do not write nonsense

                    I wrote to you in Russian that Yushchenko's decision to assign the Hero was illegal and has been officially corrected for 10 years. Having existed for very little.
                    And where does VLasov have to do with it? Or do you need to pour holivar that is in the Russian Federation?
                    Well, there is the same picture only quietly and for yourself.
                    The Synod of Bishops of the ROCOR officially came out in defense of Vlasov, sending us the following message: "General AA Vlasov was and remains a kind of symbol of resistance to godless Bolshevism in the name of the revival of Historical Russia."


                    even I remember that he was stripped of all titles!

                    and in general VLasov and Bandera are completely different cases. Vlasov is a galaxy of Kurbsky, Mazepa, Vlasov. And Bandera was not even a citizen of the USSR! So he could not be a traitor by definition.
                    In general, this is an unnecessary holivar.
                    However, your opinion is understandable, the Ukrainians are bad because they have Bandera. But we do not respect VLasov (although put the same monuments over there) and do not name the avenues.
                    Opinion accepted. We remain with different data.
                    1. Kot_Kuzya
                      Kot_Kuzya 19 October 2020 10: 35 New
                      0
                      You do not engage in manipulation here. ROCA is ROCA abroad, that is, ROCA has nothing to do with the ROC. ROCOR can at least call Bendera a "hero", since he fought against the Bolsheviks.
                      1. Niel-le-Calais
                        Niel-le-Calais 19 October 2020 10: 44 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                        You do not engage in manipulation here

                        I don't think I did it. You did not bother to read my posts about the Donetsk court and for you the main temporary name of Moskovsky Avenue in Kiev.
                        Criteria - court decision and temporary street name, chose the street.
                        I pointed out to you monuments and a statement (the first one that came across, you can find it inside the Russian Federation) on your post. Although he pointed out that this is not the same thing. But you credit me with manipulation. Okay. Want to see what you want, please. It is not prohibited
                        Faith needs no proof.
                        It's funny when a Russian considers Bandera a hero. And the Ukrainian proves to him that he does not think. It's even cooler when a Russian imposes an opinion on a Ukrainian that Bandera is his hero.
                        Perhaps this is already something from alternatives.
                      2. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 19 October 2020 11: 38 New
                        -1
                        When Yushchenko awarded Bendera the title of Hero of Ukraine, most of the Ukrainians greeted the news with enthusiasm. Or will you again argue that the Ukrainians who consider Bendera a "hero" are minuscule, and they are marginalized? Not at all. Why in 2014 did 80% of Ukrainians vote for Poroshenko, Tymoshenko, Tyagnibok, Yarosh? After all, these voters knew perfectly well what views these candidates hold. In 2019, the same situation, for Bender's candidates Zelensky, Poroshenko, Tymoshenko and other riffraff, 90% of Ukrainians also voted. So there is no need to lie here and spread demagoguery that Bender is not a dick for Ukrainians.
  • Arthur 85
    Arthur 85 18 October 2020 06: 51 New
    0
    Maybe white mice?
  • rudolff
    rudolff 18 October 2020 08: 46 New
    +8
    How tired of these stupid propaganda articles. A one-time salvo of several dozen anti-ship missiles is of course nonsense! Let's tear a hot water bottle like Tuzik! Despite the fact that ships with more or less sane air defense on the Black Sea Fleet once or twice and miscalculated! The main thing is to pour out more crap, it is not necessary to turn on the brains!
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 18 October 2020 20: 32 New
      +3
      Yes, the problem is not even in the volleys of anti-ship missiles, but in the fact that the not very sane carriers of these anti-ship missiles will need to be constantly parried and accompanied, allocating for this an outfit of forces, which are not very dense in the Black Sea Fleet.
      The bottom line:
      England - supports its orders, shipbuilding, which is going through hard times, acquires additional levers of influence on Ukraine in the form of a loan, creates problems for Russia in the south, forcing to weaken the Arctic direction that interests them so much.
      Ukraine - gets a toy in the form of coveted warships and the possibility of pressure by various provocations at sea.
      Russia - gets in a vital shipping area insane with missile boats, which constantly need to divert forces and resources.

      But everyone around is stupid and we will definitely tear them all with RCC, Caliber and Zirconia.
  • Avior
    Avior 18 October 2020 09: 05 New
    +2
    Vyatkin, as usual, passes fantasies for reality.
    Nothing is really known, but he has already made a whole opus.
    From what they write about a loan in Ukraine, there is no question of buying 8 boats for 1,6 billion dollars, as the author portrayed.
    Firstly, 1,6 is the maximum available loan amount from the British, this does not mean that Ukraine will take all this amount. Nowhere can you read at what percentage the money is given and, in general, will they take interest and what or is it an interest-free loan?
    Secondly, a significant part of the amount will go to the creation of the coastal infrastructure of the fleet in Ukraine - in fact, a new fleet base in Ochakovo, we are not talking about the fact that all the money should go to boats.
    Most of the loan amount will remain in Ukraine, there is a minimum percentage of the amount that needs to be spent in England - they write that this is at least 20 percent - in fact, it will not be less, this is the cost of components, weapons, other expenses and two boats that will be built in England with the participation of specialists from Ukraine, the remaining six will be built in Ukraine at a shipyard agreed with the British.
    The cost of the boats themselves is estimated at $ 60-80 million per unit.
    But you need to add the cost of training personnel, sailors, weapons, spare parts and other things.
    The project of the boat is still being created, they write that one of the conditions will be the possibility of simple rearmament for the sea-based launchers for Neptune that have not yet been created, so far, I recall, there is only land.
    What of this is true and what is not - time will tell.
    In the meantime, it is known that nothing is known for sure. smile
    But the author already has a bunch of conclusions ...
  • Uran53
    Uran53 18 October 2020 10: 39 New
    0
    It would be better for them to drive the aircraft carrier, at the residual value of the country. All personnel on one ship, and one admiral on each deck, with the ability to launch paragliders with a catapult launch. Would be driven into the Sea of ​​Azov, so as not to drown, and it's in the bag!
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 18 October 2020 11: 02 New
    -1
    And on other sites they write, allegedly Ukrainians swear that this is a completely new project, not yet tested, they say, a high-speed missile boat-yacht ... and partial assembly in Ukraine.

    The case is dark, khokhloslivnoe, there are still 8 articles in the near future
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 18 October 2020 11: 07 New
    -2
    "Fish for fishlessness and cancer!" This is about the "fleet" of Ukraine at the present time. After all, even these 400 tonnes are 10 times larger than uk..r. river-sea boats "gyurza". Again, NC with URO. And the money - the debts to the Britons will try to "wash away" and not give it at all.
  • Alien From
    Alien From 18 October 2020 11: 53 New
    0
    The elections are on their nose ... the lohtorat will devour .......
  • VoroncoV
    VoroncoV 18 October 2020 12: 12 New
    -5
    According to Ukrainian military publications, London will provide Kiev with a loan of $ 1,6 billion (£ 1,2 billion) for a period of 10 years for military needs.

    How many loans have the "non-brothers" already collected? Who will pay off?
    THEY ARE HOPE FOR RUSSIA! They will obey and join with bare butts when they really start to whip them for debts ..
    This republic was one of the richest during the Soviet era.
  • cniza
    cniza 18 October 2020 12: 36 New
    +1
    The safest type of ship for the Ukrainian Navy is the Cossack Seagull. They will simply laugh at her and will not touch her. True, the reenactors may attack.


    Correctly with others they have nothing to do in the Black Sea, but they do not decide ...
  • Igor Berg
    Igor Berg 18 October 2020 12: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Avior
    I suspect that they did not reach the junta, and their remnants can easily be found in Rostov. Yanukovych is not the right person to leave money to someone smile

    100%. Putin threw the money to Yanyk just in front of Vilnius so that Ukraine would not sign anything there ... And so it happened, and after the flight of this money, the treasury of Ukraine did not remain ..
  • TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 18 October 2020 16: 20 New
    -1
    The article is interesting. But what is interesting to me is that the Britons are not afraid that while they are building their miracle - boats, the power will change again in Banderland?)))) And those who seize Cuev will tell their partners from London: "You agreed with the front men, but we have no money. Therefore, keep the boat for yourself "))) Where to put them then?
    1. Petrol cutter
      Petrol cutter 18 October 2020 18: 32 New
      0
      UA- will be obliged to receive them.
      You read between the lines.
      Everything is thought out to the smallest detail.
      This is not a gift from the UA. This is a contribution to your economy! .. hi
    2. Lex_is
      Lex_is 18 October 2020 20: 36 New
      0
      Power will change again in Banderland

      Without the decision of the United States, it will definitely not change there, and the United States and Great Britain have long and strong ties.

      And the change of government has not saved anyone from paying off loans to Great Britain, it is, after all, one of the world's banking centers. Their experience of knocking out money from natives is enormous.
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 18 October 2020 21: 29 New
        -1
        About the possibility of the collapse of Banderland and, accordingly, a real chance, Britain will get "ears from a dead donkey," say the Kuevo political scientists, from among the sane and not very corrupt: Pogrebinsky, Bortnikov, Karasev. Moreover, some of them believe that the process can start soon after the elections. As soon as the regions realize that the Prez Zeli and his greenbots have no support at all and nowhere.
        1. Lex_is
          Lex_is 18 October 2020 21: 36 New
          0
          Ukrainian analysts can talk about anything, the sheriff does not care about the dreams of blacks.
          There will be no Ze, there will be another actor inspiring hope and optimism.
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 18 October 2020 22: 30 New
            -1
            Will be, if there is a Banderlyand)))) and if it is not?
  • Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 18 October 2020 18: 27 New
    0
    This is exactly the position of Britain that I understand. There, the government is thinking about the workload of its shipyards (read, personnel retention).
    Unlike our country.
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 18 October 2020 20: 44 New
      -1
      There, the government is thinking about the workload of its shipyards (read, personnel retention).


      Rather, it's about the survival of their shipyards after a show flogging.
      There is now a BAE demonstration flogging going on, with funding for the Type 26 being cut, and funding for the Type 31 from overseas suppliers, after all 6 very expensive Type 45s lined up at the factory wall after engine problems and deployed in the Mine Bay. sweeping forces were left without cover.
    2. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 18 October 2020 20: 44 New
      0
      The British will not give the boats until they receive the money. And where to get money if Banderland does not have it? Banderlyand is now a financial pyramid - whoever is the last to invest money will remain a fool.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • maktub
    maktub 18 October 2020 19: 26 New
    -2
    The article smiled. The project is completely new, with newfangled stealth technologies. By the way, the Corvette project was signed with Turkey
  • RoTTor
    RoTTor 18 October 2020 19: 57 New
    -1
    Wonderland: instead of making money by accepting foreign junk and obscene goods, they themselves will pay% on loans to buy floating metal scrap and save Western friends from the hassle of cutting and melting it down.

    It is necessary to learn from the bourgeoisie, trained in the age-old robbery of colonies, stifling business acumen in relation to vassals and savages
    But to humiliate the country, which until recently had the most powerful shipbuilding, capable of doing everything except nuclear submarines and submarines - from skiffs to tankers, SPKs, whaling bases and aircraft carriers ...
    Western friends keep dropping ...
    The metropolis at least somehow cares about the colonies, but here - the desire to sail away and abandon
    1. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 18 October 2020 20: 47 New
      +1
      Submarine pr. 613 in Nikolaev was built, with a lot. About 70, for the Black Sea Fleet and beyond
    2. perm23
      perm23 20 October 2020 17: 13 New
      0
      I beg your pardon, but all this was not built in the country of Ukraine, but in the country of the USSR where the Ukrainian SSR was. All this was built by all the shipyards and factories of the Soviet Union. And then again, you only make super from Ukrainians. the whole country worked
  • RoTTor
    RoTTor 18 October 2020 20: 34 New
    0
    Ukraine already has enough scrap metal: in Nikolaev, the brother of the flagship of the KChF, the heavy missile cruiser "Ukraine", the failed flagship of the failed "ocean Ukrainian fleet" at the wall has been rotting for 30 years. "What do you call the ship ..."
    1. Avior
      Avior 18 October 2020 22: 37 New
      +1
      This is when he was the flagship of the Ukrainian fleet?
      Russia needed to buy it out in time, but did not have time ...
      1. Alien ...
        Alien ... 18 October 2020 23: 52 New
        +1
        On the contrary: thank God, they didn't buy it out on time. Thanks to the greed of the Ukrainians - they did not give up for the proposed grandmother ...
      2. Niel-le-Calais
        Niel-le-Calais 19 October 2020 10: 13 New
        -1
        Quote: Avior
        Russia needed to buy it out in time, but did not have time ...

        did not agree on the price. Some wanted for a billion. Others for a million.
        Could even at the expense of gas, how to do with missiles.
  • Alien ...
    Alien ... 18 October 2020 23: 59 New
    0
    In essence: well, sofa analysts, what is more realistic for nenki to get 8 RTOs from aglichans (to hell with him, for what loan and at what interest), or build it yourself?
    Conclusion: not the stupidest decision of Zelenka and Co. ... Even if, as a result of these RTOs, 2 remain ... Which are purely English ... laughing
  • barin
    barin 19 October 2020 17: 22 New
    17
    Let them sell old stuff to them at a higher price, we don't mind
  • hostel
    hostel 20 October 2020 20: 10 New
    0
    In the Black Sea conditions, these are very dangerous warships. In addition, Russia has no fleet in this theater of operations. Fortunately for us, there are only eight of them.
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 21 October 2020 13: 25 New
    0
    An excellent deal for everyone: the British will get money for shipyards and support their shipbuilders, then they will also sell a bunch of equipment and ammunition, the Ukrainians will receive 4 galoshes, which they will put on the berth to death, along the way, half of the money will be stolen (kickbacks), Ukraine will lose and the Ukrainians will be hanged not a bad debt.
  • Ersh
    Ersh 22 October 2020 13: 41 New
    0
    Author, shame on you? After all, Zelensky said that Ukraine will very soon have the most modern, most powerful Navy! Don't you believe the president of Ukraine?
    1. Alien ...
      Alien ... 22 October 2020 20: 47 New
      0
      You can believe this: https://rg.ru/2008/03/18/prognoz.html
  • DeFalco
    DeFalco 29 October 2020 12: 54 New
    0
    If so, what kind of fleet does Ukraine need? Large, large ships: missile cruisers, aircraft carriers, destroyers - not an option, it will not pull. This means that we need a fleet of small ships, missile boats, corvettes, for example, German, type "Braunschweig", two or three frigates, for example, British, type 26 "City", or type "Fremm". Small and medium sized vessels, modern, with URO and good PLO. Well, if Ukraine wants to play something on the Black Sea, it needs modern aviation, fourth-generation aircraft capable of carrying precision weapons and conducting aerial combat. If Ukraine wants to take European aircraft - Swedish JAS 39 "Gripen" or French "Rafal". If in the USA, then the F-16 of the latest modifications, for example, the F-16E / F Block 60 or F-16V Block 70/72. While all this is not there - alas, Ukraine has no chance of confronting anyone on the Black Sea. Upgrading Soviet missiles and buying missile boats, and then declaring that this will help defeat the Black Sea Navy - somehow it is, so-so ...
    1. Skai
      Skai 10 November 2020 20: 37 New
      0
      do you work in a gun store - you know exactly what to offer to Ukrainians)))
  • Skai
    Skai 10 November 2020 20: 36 New
    0
    what's the difference, what is the age of the property transferred to Ukrainians? let, say, you will not put him against Russia, but if you can lather your neck to the Romanians in case of an armed conflict? (probably) and with whom else in the Black Sea to fight ukram with such "good" will remain?