Military Review

Russia itself builds helicopter carriers: on the characteristics and prospects of domestic UDC

113
After an unsuccessful attempt to equip the fleet with universal amphibious assault ships through the acquisition of a Mistral-class UDC in France, the Russian Defense Ministry on May 23, 2020 signed a contract for the construction of two similar ships of Russian design with the Kerch shipyard Zaliv.


These will be Project 23900 universal landing ships of the Ivan Rogov type. The first two ships of the series "Ivan Rogov" and "Mitrofan Moskalenko" were laid down on July 20, 2020. All components of the ship will be domestic. When designing the ship, the world experience of amphibious operations was taken into account, which showed that there is a need to have staff ships that would coordinate the entire course of the amphibious operation.

In addition, difficulties arise during the landing of troops from helicopters and from landing craft. We need high-speed ships, and they are provided on board the ships under construction. In addition, the need for fire support for the landing force, the presence of a strong UDC air defense system and escort ships were taken into account. The Soviet experience of operating helicopter carriers of the "Moscow" type has not been forgotten in terms of their use in the variant of PLO ships, the firepower of the helicopter wing and the small landing capacity. Russian UDCs have serious opportunities in this regard. They can take on board up to 1000 marines, about 75 units of military equipment. On board there will be up to 16 [12] Ka-29 landing helicopters, Ka-52K attack helicopters, Ka-27, Ka-31 anti-submarine helicopters. And plus a few UAVs.

Russia itself builds helicopter carriers: on the characteristics and prospects of domestic UDC


The dock chamber of the ship will accommodate up to 4 high-speed, up to 30 knots, air-cushion landing boats of Project 11770 Serna, with a carrying capacity of up to 45 tons or Project 02510.

The ships of this project are designed to perform a wide range of tasks: to land the forces and means of the assault and to control a group, formation and unification of ships or dissimilar forces, as well as to be a command and staff ship as part of a ship or aircraft carrier strike group of the Russian Navy. In addition, the UDC is an irreplaceable sea transport and a means of patrolling the far ocean zone. This is a modern ship for the needs of the Russian marines, capable of providing a long-term presence of military contingents in remote areas without bases, providing aviation support. In addition, due to the powerful air defense system, the UDC can be a short-range air defense ship of a small ship formation. The use of helicopters will allow performing anti-submarine missions. It is envisaged to significantly enhance the capabilities of the Ka-52K helicopter, based on the UDC, to destroy enemy ships through the use of the Kh-31A and Kh-35U anti-ship missiles. Additionally, if equipped with an onboard radar with an active phased array "Zhuk-AE", the helicopter will be capable of hitting air targets within a radius of up to 80 km using the unified air-to-air missile R-77 (RVV-AE). There are no analogues to such helicopter-based naval strike systems in the world.

It is planned to make the UDC of the "Ivan Rogov" type truly universal, capable of independently solving all the above tasks. In general, unlike the Americans, we cannot afford to have specialized ships. We strive to make any ship as versatile as possible, which does not always give the expected effect. For the sake of one task, you have to sacrifice another. As a result, both are not resolved properly.

Enhanced armament, greater autonomy - 60 days and cruising range - 6000 nautical miles will allow the use of UDC with a smaller number of surface escort ships.

New UDC of Russia will increase expeditionary capabilities fleet... The need for this has increased due to the fact that the Syrian campaign continues, and the bases in the SAR are planned to be operated for a long time. The issue of supplying a group of troops there with everything necessary is all the more relevant since in the event of a (hypothetical) ban on passage through the Bosphorus, it will be necessary to supply supplies along a significantly longer route.

There is no exact decision on the ship base locations yet. It is planned to use them in the Pacific and Black Sea fleets. Although, if, as on Mistrals for Russia, the composition of steel alloys for ship hulls is actually changed to ice class, this will allow them to be used in northern latitudes in difficult ice conditions. Apparently, there are plans for their deployment in the North.

It is believed that two ships of this class are not enough. But one must take into account both financial capabilities and the fact that Russia does not have overseas territories, and does not plan aggressive wars with the landing of large landings. And, despite the impressive armament, escort from several ships is required to escort the UDC. There is no possibility to provide an escort. And without air cover in the open ocean, far from its native shore, such a ship is doomed.

So for today, let the sailors forgive me, I see this UDC as just a well-armed "barge" that in peacetime allows you to display the flag, make friendly visits and receive guests on board, conduct operations against a deliberately weak enemy, be a command ship and control point, perform the function of a transport vessel, supply vessel, evacuation vehicle in case of emergencies, and a floating hospital. Also, of course, not bad. But using such special ships to protect offshore gas fields and fight terrorists and sea pirates, as Egypt intends to do with its Mistrals, is hardly advisable. This experience is not suitable for us. There are other classes of ships for this. Plus this is a very expensive "event".
Author:
Photos used:
frame from the news release of TC Mir24
113 comments
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  1. Alexander X
    Alexander X 15 October 2020 18: 05 New
    14
    Of course, I wanted to read that the ships had already been delivered to the customer ... But once they were laid, it was already good. It's great that, as they say, all the components are domestic. Jobs, experience, technology development are important.
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 15 October 2020 18: 14 New
      +7
      I fully subscribe to the comment. Since many people here consider me a skeptic, I will simply keep silent about the deadline and cross two fingers - so as not to jinx it.
      1. Livonetc
        Livonetc 15 October 2020 18: 33 New
        +1
        Maybe they will also reconsider the issue of equipping with drones and drones.
        "And plus a few UAVs."
        It turned out to be a very significant topic.
        When carrying out serious amphibious operations, such support will significantly increase the efficiency of the tasks assigned to the landing.
        1. Eldorado
          Eldorado 15 October 2020 18: 41 New
          -22 qualifying.
          Not plus a few, but a whole swarm. Heavy drones "Okhotnik" in the naval version will be based on 23900, which will turn the UDC into light aircraft carriers. And also "Eagles" and "Orions". UAVs will be able to carry anti-ship missiles X-35U.
          Amery is already using UAVs on their UDC. The Chinese are also preparing to use it.
          1. Vadim_888
            Vadim_888 15 October 2020 19: 03 New
            30
            ... heavy drones "Okhotnik" will be based

            Wait a minute, dear, how are you planning to return it to the deck? Catch with a net? wassat
            1. Eldorado
              Eldorado 15 October 2020 19: 06 New
              -44 qualifying.
              Quote: Vadim_888
              ... heavy drones "Okhotnik" will be based

              Wait a minute, dear, how are you planning to return it to the deck? Catch with a net? wassat

              And you, I see, are special, judging by your rating!
              1. Vadim_888
                Vadim_888 15 October 2020 19: 48 New
                33
                ... And you, I see, are special, judging by your rating!

                So you are not looking at the rating, but at the length of the ship under construction, deck equipment and the take-off and landing characteristics of the future drone laughing
                1. lucul
                  lucul 15 October 2020 20: 04 New
                  -7
                  and on the takeoff and landing characteristics of the future drone

                  Well, he sat down very confidently, and the mileage was small. Although I do not think that it will be used on the UDC - it is much more necessary to use UAVs for target designation of Calibers than strike drones.
                  1. Vadim_888
                    Vadim_888 15 October 2020 20: 37 New
                    18
                    ... Well, he sat down very confidently, and the mileage was small
                    small is how many meters?
                    ... Although I do not think that it will be used on the UDC - it is much more necessary to use a UAV for target designation of Caliber

                    Drive a ship with a displacement of up to 30000 tons so that it launches a UAV for target designation? wassat
                    For this, there are less ships
                    1. lucul
                      lucul 16 October 2020 09: 00 New
                      -3
                      Drive a ship with a displacement of up to 30000 tons to launch a UAV for target designation? wassat
                      For this, there are less ships

                      Laughter. What smaller ships are there? What kind of our ship (smaller) with its UAV is able to issue target designation at 2 km from the ship? How many drones can fly this distance?
                      1. Vadim_888
                        Vadim_888 16 October 2020 10: 06 New
                        +2
                        ... Is the UAV capable of issuing target designation at 2 km from the ship?

                        Please, what kind of drone do we have with a range of 2500 km? laughing
                      2. lucul
                        lucul 16 October 2020 10: 32 New
                        0
                        Please, what kind of drone do we have with a range of 2500 km?

                        A question to a question?
                        No question - UAV Altius, flight range up to 10 km.
                        Will it suit? )))
                      3. Bersaglieri
                        Bersaglieri 16 October 2020 10: 50 New
                        +1
                        It's not there yet - just a prototype.
                      4. lucul
                        lucul 16 October 2020 11: 15 New
                        +1
                        It's not there yet - just a prototype.

                        There is no UDC yet ...
                      5. Old Skeptic
                        Old Skeptic 16 October 2020 13: 19 New
                        +3
                        And why the heck to him UDC, at 10000 km?
                      6. lucul
                        lucul 16 October 2020 13: 26 New
                        0
                        And why the heck to him UDC, at 10000 km?

                        Issue target designations to Caliber missiles in a squadron.
                      7. Old Skeptic
                        Old Skeptic 16 October 2020 13: 27 New
                        +1
                        With such a range, it can take off from the ground.
                      8. lucul
                        lucul 16 October 2020 13: 31 New
                        +1
                        With such a range, it can take off from the ground.

                        With such a range it is a one-way ticket, the combat radius is already 5 km. Which is half as much.
                      9. Old Skeptic
                        Old Skeptic 16 October 2020 13: 33 New
                        +2
                        Well, yes, the tankers have already shot down everything.
                        You are probably right.
                      10. lucul
                        lucul 16 October 2020 13: 39 New
                        0
                        Well, yes, the tankers have already shot down everything.
                        You are probably right.

                        It's not only about the range - the main thing is that it can issue target designation for days at this distance. Whereas Turkish and Israeli UAVs are limited to 200-300 km
                      11. Old Skeptic
                        Old Skeptic 16 October 2020 13: 43 New
                        +2
                        So you decide. If you give it out for days, then the tankers are still intact, then the first question - "Why the heck does it have UDC at 10000 km?"
                      12. lucul
                        lucul 16 October 2020 13: 48 New
                        -1
                        So you decide. If you give it out for days, then the tankers are still intact, then the first question - "Why the heck does it have UDC at 10000 km?"

                        Well, imagine the option - the Faroe Islands, we help Argentina return back. What is the distance from Crimea to the Faroe Islands. Even if he arrives there, how long he can hang. And second, where will our tankers come from in the Faroe Islands? )))
                      13. Old Skeptic
                        Old Skeptic 16 October 2020 14: 05 New
                        0
                        Well yes. Are we helping Argentina regain the Danish islands in the North Atlantic?
                        Maybe better than Malvina or Falklands (in extreme cases)?
                        And Argentina ran out of its airfields.
                      14. lucul
                        lucul 16 October 2020 14: 08 New
                        +1
                        Well yes. Are we helping Argentina regain the Danish islands in the North Atlantic?

                        Falklands, of course)))
  • Elturisto
    Elturisto 15 October 2020 19: 25 New
    +9
    Do not interfere with the flight of thought - the hangman ...
  • ZEMCH
    ZEMCH 15 October 2020 19: 26 New
    +6
    Quote: El Dorado
    Not plus a few, but a whole swarm. Heavy drones "Okhotnik" in the naval version will be based on 23900, which will turn the UDC into light aircraft carriers. And also "Eagles" and "Orions". UAVs will be able to carry anti-ship missiles X-35U.
    Amery is already using UAVs on their UDC. The Chinese are also preparing to use it.

    And how the above UAVs will take off and land, we have already learned how to catch on the net, but I do not think that this is possible with the Hunter dimension)))
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 15 October 2020 22: 28 New
    +5
    Ostap carried ...
  • antivirus
    antivirus 15 October 2020 22: 01 New
    -1
    especially if you do not want to build aircraft carriers - UAVs - a breakthrough into the future
    1. alstr
      alstr 16 October 2020 09: 01 New
      0
      Better immediately underwater.
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 16 October 2020 09: 50 New
        0
        Better immediately underwater.

        -three-medium - underwater, air and space
  • iouris
    iouris 15 October 2020 22: 28 New
    10
    Central Asia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia have practically surrendered. Ukraine is the enemy's resource. The Black Sea is NATO's internal sea. Belarus is not yet an ally, not a friend or an enemy. The ports and infrastructure of the Baltics are ready to allow troops to pass in any direction. On the nose is a war, most likely in the "soft underbelly" against someone who is not clear, where ships are not needed, or in the Donbass. The massive use of drones has shown this. Ukraine has already "bought". What we have? Lavrov zeroed out, now it's Shoigu's turn.
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 15 October 2020 22: 48 New
      11
      But for such transfers and an open statement that this is all a failure of foreign policy, they usually give me a minus. At the same time, I just feel how the generals on the couch just boil from the understanding that their faces have been soaked in their own puddle.
  • Deck
    Deck 15 October 2020 19: 53 New
    +7
    Of course, I wanted to read that the ships had already been delivered to the customer ... But once they were laid, it was already good. It's great that, as they say, all the components are domestic. Jobs, experience, technology development are important.


    Please remind us which ships or vessels have been handed over (keyword) to the customer by the Zaliv plant over the past 5 years. Yours faithfully
    1. ancient
      ancient 15 October 2020 21: 35 New
      15
      Quote: Deck
      Please remind us which ships or vessels have been handed over (keyword) to the customer by the Zaliv plant over the past 5 years.

      Well ... I took it and ... ruined the "holiday" for people ... you can't even dream wink
    2. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl 16 October 2020 01: 12 New
      +5
      Quote: Deck
      Please remind us which ships or vessels have been handed over (keyword) to the customer by the Zaliv plant over the past 5 years. Yours faithfully
      and so far, apart from a pair of "Karakurt", they haven't ordered anything like ?! what could he hand over ?!
      1. Deck
        Deck 16 October 2020 07: 17 New
        +2
        There are about a dozen unfinished buildings there: unfortunate cable-laying workers, fishermen. rescuer)
      2. Niel-le-Calais
        Niel-le-Calais 16 October 2020 09: 29 New
        0
        Quote: Vl Nemchinov
        And so far, apart from a pair of "Karakurt", have not ordered anything like?

        проект 22800
        project A145 (SPM-150)
        проект 23131
        проект 15310
        project MPSV07
        проект 22160
        проект 19910
        project CNF 22
        project 23900 type "Ivan Rogov"
        1. Nemchinov Vl
          Nemchinov Vl 16 October 2020 12: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: Niel-le-Calais
          Quote: Vl Nemchinov
          And so far, apart from a pair of "Karakurt", have not ordered anything like?

          проект 22800
          project A145 (SPM-150)
          проект 23131
          проект 15310
          project MPSV07
          проект 22160
          проект 19910
          project CNF 22
          project 23900 type "Ivan Rogov"

          Thank you (!)... The remark is made by you on the merits (!). hi My respect (respect) yes
          As far as I tried to figure it out (from open sources of information) ...:
          project A145 (SPM-150) - slowly but under construction.
          project 23131 is the most "unpleasant story", with a bad taste (!)... You're right.
          project 15310, - as far as I could understand there larger problems not caused by the plant (because he managed to build the buildings) (!), but through the fault of the supply of equipment due to sanctions (i.e. - subcontractors). So is the plant to blame, in this case ... ?!
          project 19910, about the same situation, but perhaps a plus carelessness / mismanagement.
          project 22800, - these are under construction (!)... And since part of the plant's capacity is actually leased (like a rented site "Zelenodolsk Shipbuilding Plant", i.e. as a branch), it is clear that Zelenodolsk itself will probably be the first to receive the power plant, and then he will share with the branch.... (!) ... Therefore, I would not blame the Zaliv plant for the delay data due to the impossibility of PJSC Zvezda to timely provide the construction program for the Karakurt series. !!! There would be from the planners of the "Karakurt program", I would ask, but it seems to me that they will not find someone from (!), or appoint (!). recourse
          project 22160, - exactly the same situation, even with fewer problems (!).
          project CNF 22, and project MPSV07 - I did not understand this at all. can't even try to comment. hi sorry, but too little information.
          project 23900 type "Ivan Rogov" - about these it is probably too early to say anything (!)... From my point of view, I continue to consider it a mistake to lay down IMMEDIATELY two such large vessels on the "Zaliv". But time will tell ... I would more welcome there the bookmark of one such, and two 22350 (moreover not at a timewhich in my opinion is a silly farce (!), and sequentially, with a gap of 3-4-5 months, during a calendar year), to restore competencies there nominal "naval" shipbuilding, and saturation of the Black Sea Fleet with warships ... but this is just an observation position (by). winked
          1. Deck
            Deck 16 October 2020 20: 06 New
            0
            Everyone has an excuse, like a hole in the ass. For example, the multifunctional rescue vessel MPSV 6-7 has about a dozen built. Nevsky plant built them in a year and a half. It's not about supplies, but about the lack of competent personnel, both managers and workers. And if they can do the building, then the completion is from the realm of fantasy.
          2. Niel-le-Calais
            Niel-le-Calais 16 October 2020 22: 24 New
            -3
            project А163 was launched on February 21, 2019

            Cyclone ", which has already been launched,

            still under construction "Askold" and "Amur"
            cable ship "Vyatka" project 15310 with serial number 302.

            Kerch, 18.08.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX
  • 3bb2015
    3bb2015 17 October 2020 12: 38 New
    +1
    All components are domestic.
    Do you believe that?
    Naive!
  • parusnik
    parusnik 15 October 2020 18: 20 New
    +6
    Author, you would have skimmed through the pages of VO over the past six months. Have already written on this topic, there were several articles and a heated discussion. You probably decided to make your contribution, but alas, nothing new.
    1. Mooh
      Mooh 16 October 2020 00: 14 New
      0
      Don't scare off the new author. Creative people often take criticism to heart and fall into various crises. The article is of course mediocre, but not bad for a start. Maybe an intelligent author will grow up.
  • Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 15 October 2020 18: 24 New
    -2
    Author! UDC can cover not only Aircraft Carriers, so your thesis - that the laid down Ships are a "well-armed barge" - sounds at least provocative. The cover can consist of any units of the Fleet. Don't forget about the capabilities of Long-Range and Strategic Aviation!
    Personally, I am pleased with this news! Transporting XNUMX Marines, delivery vehicles, equipment ... be able to provide cover with attack helicopters, Great! good
    1. Sergei Sovetkin
      15 October 2020 18: 35 New
      +1
      In the article, in my opinion, everything is extremely clear and sorted out on the shelves. The impression is that you simply have nothing to say in essence, and therefore start completely rotten conversations about some "provocations" and, allegedly, inappropriate terms. It is undignified for you, as I guess, but the past of a military man.
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 15 October 2020 18: 50 New
        -15 qualifying.
        You amuse me more and more! I brought you your words and referred to them!
        As for rotten conversations, hold your tongue. And your impressions - I'm not interested at all, if you are very impressionable - drink valerian, Internet strategist!
        1. Sergei Sovetkin
          15 October 2020 18: 53 New
          +4
          Well, we talked. Do not be ill and keep up the good work, if it does not reach
          1. CommanderDIVA
            CommanderDIVA 15 October 2020 20: 07 New
            10
            The author of the article should not enter into a skirmish with the listeners, but listen carefully to everyone, if possible, give a competent answer, there is an assessment of your work, Goethe said in my opinion that the eyes of the reader are more severe than the ears of the listener
            1. Sergei Sovetkin
              15 October 2020 20: 49 New
              -1
              Yes, here, by the content of comments and tonality, you can immediately see who is worth what. For calm and meaningful assessments, regardless of whether they are in plus or minus and opinions, only thanks
      2. ancient
        ancient 15 October 2020 21: 39 New
        +4
        Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
        In the article, in my opinion, everything is extremely clear and sorted out on the shelves.

        In the article, yes ... everything is on the shelves ... as when drawing up a good plan ... only in our reality, plans very often go ... crying
        Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
        You just have nothing to say

        I liked the conclusion very much ... corresponds to the present time ... all the time I'm going to ask, what is .. "powerful air defense on the UDC" wink
    2. URAL72
      URAL72 15 October 2020 19: 16 New
      -1
      That's right, game manager. But I can add that the UDC can be used as PLO ships, because if amphibious missions are not worth it, the Ka-29 can be replaced by the Ka-27, even in the minesweepers version - another task. The Red Sea has already been cleared of mines, by the way, within the framework of UN tasks. And to use it as a base against pirates, it's better not to come up with it. There are speed boats, marines, both strike and patrol aircraft, incl. UAV, landing, there is a place for prisoners.
      1. ZEMCH
        ZEMCH 15 October 2020 19: 28 New
        +9
        Quote: URAL72
        And to use it as a base against pirates, it's better not to come up with it. There are speed boats, marines, both strike and patrol aircraft, incl. UAV, landing, there is a place for prisoners.

        It seems to me a little expensive to use as an anti-piracy
        1. URAL72
          URAL72 15 October 2020 20: 37 New
          -2
          And it seems to me that driving motor boats on a BOD is much more expensive than patrolling with a UAV from a UDC in the port or in the roadstead. In case of a threat, stop raising 1 Ka-29 ... Besides, we have significant interests in this region, or do you really think that pirates are so worried about the fleet? And there is Persian nearby.
      2. Lex_is
        Lex_is 15 October 2020 19: 29 New
        +3
        And to use it as a base against pirates, it's better not to come up with it.

        like PLO ships

        even in the version of minesweepers


        Of course you can.
        Only this is the same as hammering nails with a microscope.
        1. URAL72
          URAL72 15 October 2020 20: 39 New
          -3
          Read the comment above. UDC in operation is not more expensive than our worn-out BODs. who also have more important tasks.
          1. Lex_is
            Lex_is 15 October 2020 20: 44 New
            +4
            UDC in operation is not more expensive than our worn-out BODs.


            This is some kind of alternative economy.
            And why would his exploitation become cheaper?
            1. URAL72
              URAL72 15 October 2020 21: 00 New
              -1
              Propulsion system

              Diesel-gas turbine main propulsion system of CODAG type:
              - 2 x diesel engines of type 10D49 with a capacity of 6000 hp each
              - 2 x M90FR gas turbine engines with a capacity of 27500 hp each
              - 2 x rudder propellers.
              That is, the class, power, amount of power is the same. Weapon systems, which means electronics, etc. less. Modern radars have fewer rotating parts. A new ship is always cheaper to operate than an old one. There is no need to run after boats. You can take many times more supplies on board without spending currency in foreign ports. He doesn't need a tug either. I think it will be even cheaper.
    3. novel66
      novel66 15 October 2020 21: 49 New
      +6
      leaped up, Marine? already and operations, go, plan lol
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 16 October 2020 16: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: Hunter 2
      UDC can cover not only Aircraft Carriers, therefore your thesis - that the laid down Ships are a "well-armed barge" - sounds at least provocative. The cover can consist of any units of the Fleet.

      By the time these ships were delivered any units of the fleetcapable of acting together with them, we will have 12-15 pieces. For three fleets. Moreover, in addition to supporting the UDC, these units will have more important tasks.
      Quote: Hunter 2
      Don't forget about the capabilities of Long-Range and Strategic Aviation!

      Oh yes ... long-range missiles are simply invaluable in solving the problems of anti-aircraft defense and air defense. smile
      Because, if the UDC works for its intended purpose, then the PLO has no time to do it and has nothing to do - the onboard group will be made up of strikers and multipurpose personnel.
  • Azis
    Azis 15 October 2020 18: 49 New
    +1
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    I'll just keep silent about the deadline and cross two fingers - so as not to jinx it.
    Join.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 15 October 2020 22: 07 New
      -1
      less is better.
      Looking into the future is harder than pleasing your pride.
      Shifted to the right - so be it, children will be happy: they will be protected. not us.
  • Lex_is
    Lex_is 15 October 2020 19: 06 New
    +7
    will increase the expeditionary capabilities of the fleet. The need for this has increased as the Syrian campaign continues

    Are they going to continue the Syrian company for another five years?

    The issue of supplying a group of troops there with everything necessary is all the more relevant since in the event of a (hypothetical) ban on passage through the Bosphorus, it will be necessary to supply supplies along a significantly longer route.


    Is there nothing cheaper than a UDC with an air group for delivering goods to Tartus?
    1. ZEMCH
      ZEMCH 15 October 2020 19: 35 New
      10
      Quote: Lex_is
      Are they going to continue the Syrian company for another five years?

      Under the terms of the agreement, the PMTO of the Navy in Tartus is transferred to the Russian Federation for free use, receiving full immunity from the civil and administrative jurisdiction of Syria. The maximum number of Russian warships that are allowed to stay at a point at the same time is 11, including warships with a nuclear power plant. The agreement is designed for 49 years and is automatically extended for another 25. And to restore Syria and protect its interests for more than a dozen years)))
      By the way, as one of the options for permanent deployment, it is closer to the Indian Ocean than from the Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet
      1. Lex_is
        Lex_is 15 October 2020 19: 58 New
        +4
        The UDC is needed for one single task - for the over-the-horizon landing of troops on an un-equipped coast.

        For other tasks, there are more suitable and cheaper ships and vessels.

        The over-the-horizon landing of the Navy's own PMTO is a new word in the tactics of the Navy.
      2. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 16 October 2020 01: 23 New
        +2
        Quote: ZEMCH
        By the way, as one of the options for permanent deployment, it is closer to the Indian Ocean than from the Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet
        well, for that Cam Ranh would be even preferable ?!
      3. alex51217
        alex51217 16 October 2020 06: 25 New
        0
        Or maybe it's better to restore your country?
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 15 October 2020 19: 07 New
    -2
    Why do we need these UDCs?
    When they decided to buy the Mistrals, everyone shouted that they
    we do not need it, but then suddenly we needed it.
    No, I do not know how to think as strategically as all these
    "sawers" of the state budget ...
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 15 October 2020 19: 23 New
      -4
      Why do we need these UDCs?

      According to the author's strategic thinking:
      to be a command ship and control center, to perform the function of a transport vessel, supply vessel, evacuation vehicle in case of emergencies, and a floating hospital.

      And the "sawers" of the state budget, since the days of "Mistrals", have not voiced anything intelligible.
    2. Dart2027
      Dart2027 15 October 2020 19: 26 New
      0
      Quote: Bez 310
      When they decided to buy the Mistrals, everyone shouted that they
      we don't need

      We were offended that we were buying from the French.
  • garri-lin
    garri-lin 15 October 2020 19: 19 New
    +1
    Why are they in the Black Sea? In the Mediterranean, you can still think. For black, Bison is enough.
    1. lucul
      lucul 15 October 2020 20: 11 New
      +1
      Why are they in the Black Sea? In the Mediterranean, you can still think. For black, Bison is enough.

      They are good in any of our fleets. A couple per fleet, and it is already possible to abandon the deployment of helicopters on our new frigates / corvettes, which will double the number of missiles on them.
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 15 October 2020 20: 47 New
        +2
        An PLO ship without a helicopter is a half measure. Here some comrades even insist on two helicopters. So otkazyvatsya is unnecessary. And for the Black Sea, a large ship is nothing more than a target. On the other fleets, they are needed, and not two. On Black, extra.
        1. ZEMCH
          ZEMCH 16 October 2020 13: 22 New
          +1
          Quote: garri-lin
          On Black, extra.

          I agree, Black is overlapping elementary))) One bridge in the Bosphorus falls, and the Black Sea Fleet is clogged)))
    2. alstr
      alstr 16 October 2020 09: 06 New
      0
      Bison are certainly good, but they would have to add range so that the Black Sea could be crossed in both directions without refueling. And so far only one way from Sevastopol can.
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 16 October 2020 09: 41 New
        -1
        So like half a year ago there was infa about the modernized version.
        1. alstr
          alstr 16 October 2020 09: 47 New
          0
          But so far we have only the old version. When there will be new ones is not very clear
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 16 October 2020 11: 15 New
            -1
            Well, there are still many years before the UDC. And there are even more years before their sufficient number.
  • CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 15 October 2020 20: 10 New
    +2
    These ships, with an eye on the Mediterranean, the shores of northern and eastern Africa, are likely to be based in Tartus.
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 15 October 2020 20: 20 New
      -6
      And what are the sources of such wonderful strategic plans for the conquest of Africa?
      1. CommanderDIVA
        CommanderDIVA 15 October 2020 21: 51 New
        +2
        Do not distort, there was no speech about the whole Africa in my commentary, this is just an assumption based on the analysis of information from open sources
        1. Lex_is
          Lex_is 15 October 2020 22: 35 New
          0
          Can you answer basic questions?


          What will the UDC do in the Mediterranean in the face of opposition from any serious enemy without gaining dominance in the sea during the transition to the landing area (not delivering goods, but disembarking) and fighting for the landing site? Or are there groups that will ensure the landing?
          And where (against whom) are you going to hold DESO in the Mediterranean Sea, that you cannot do without the UDC?
          1. CommanderDIVA
            CommanderDIVA 16 October 2020 00: 10 New
            -1
            You'd better ask this question to our General Staff, there most likely are detailed plans for the use of these ships in possible landing operations on the African or other coast
          2. alstr
            alstr 16 October 2020 09: 10 New
            +1
            Yes, okay at sea. And in the air?
            Yes, and everything is shot well from the banks. There, at its widest point, a maximum of 1000 km From Europe to Africa. And in some places it is generally less than 200 km (i.e., the range of cannon artillery).
            And this despite the fact that almost the entire coast is NATO countries or sympathizers with them or even barmaley
  • andrew42
    andrew42 15 October 2020 20: 33 New
    +4
    Again, I note that there is an overkill with capacity and carrying capacity. We need not 2 such "station wagons", but 4 pieces of "1-battalion" with half the "load". 75 units technology! - For this there must be transport! But the number of helicopters, especially attack ones. important for the landing, it must be increased without reducing PLO helicopters. 4 ships of the 1st battalion would be much more functional - interchangeability for theater, flexibility of the repair schedule, and what is important in our conditions - shorter production times, and the launch of the flagship of the series in a shorter time. And without an escort, such people would still be serious. But in the article "generalists" should already provide air defense / PLO! or promoting for the entire link! - Maybe they should also dive?
    1. alstr
      alstr 16 October 2020 09: 25 New
      0
      So to speak.
      You need to have a limited number of landing ships and assign them to a specific Marine brigade.
      Ideally, there should be enough of them to transfer the entire brigade in one or two times.
      But this is unlikely to work. But at least a battalion at one time with all the equipment must transfer such ships.

      Everything else should be transferred to mobilization ships.
      And if we have something very poorly with landing ships, then with civilian dual-use - a complete failure (although bad swearing suggests itself).

      And by the way, no matter how they laugh, the underwater delivery vehicles for the Marine Corps will also not be superfluous. Of course, they should be designed to land only infantry (up to a company) with weapons no heavier than a company mortar, but they should be.

      As for the control ships, these should be specialized ships. And with modern technology it is better to take them under water, because this provides greater security (90% of threats are air attacks).

      And control of the situation can be provided with a variety of drones.
    2. andrew42
      andrew42 16 October 2020 11: 16 New
      +1
      The laying of two such "big guys" is an unequivocal evidence that customers, designers and manufacturers have planned a grandiose cut of funds with long-term construction, the longer the better. And then - a new layout from papier-mâché and "our song is good, start over", plus "no one is to blame." For our military shipbuilding, these are simply "Ilya Muromets Airplane" and "Lebedenko Tank" - I propose to call it that in advance.
  • Pamir
    Pamir 15 October 2020 21: 45 New
    +3
    UDC, as an indispensable means of patrolling a distant ocean zone, is probably too much. Why with such a horde of marines to provide patrolling and in what way? One grub is required, but how to ensure its reception? for the crew and the composition of the air wing. The sea infantry only has a personal dry ration and it would be good if it would be enough for the transition, but for the first couple of days after landing. And how to ensure acceptable living conditions with a long stay of such a horde of marines while patrolling? This is not a cruise liner. UDC, this is a means of delivery and disembarkation of troops, and equipment with limited fire support along the coast during disembarkation, without any frills. UDC to ascribe unnecessary functionality such as anti-submarine warfare, anti-ship missiles strikes against surface targets, air battles with the existing air wing, search and neutralization of pirates. UDC exist not for these purposes.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 15 October 2020 22: 14 New
      -5
      Why with such a horde of marines to provide patrolling and in what way

      - the specialist was 3 hours late with scribbling: see smarter comments
      --- The UDC is not a naval ship (options-functions-combat capabilities), but an appendage in strategic solitaire from the USA - CUBA WILL GO, IF THE RVSN AND HYPER DOES NOT ENOUGH IN TRADE WITH THE USA, THERE WILL BE A KOZYR
      BASE IN HAVANA AND DR + VENEZUELA - their route.
      us - Atlantic, China - Quiet for pressure on the USA
      1. Pamir
        Pamir 15 October 2020 22: 43 New
        +2
        Do not flatter yourself, one-hour operational commentator, and there will always be people with a specialist. Your BASES IN HAVANA AND DR + VENEZUELA - with their routes, with your KOZYR, NATO will block, you will not have time to pass half the way. with the belonging of the oceans. You dashingly, from BARSKY'S SHOULDER from yourself appropriate and give the sea expanses, according to your maps, you probably have everything in openwork.
        1. Pamir
          Pamir 15 October 2020 22: 54 New
          0
          I am neither cold nor hot from the minus, catch the oncoming one.
          1. Pamir
            Pamir 15 October 2020 23: 45 New
            0
            Yeah, by the way, and to whom did you (antivirus) donate the Indian and Southern Oceans from your BARSKY SHOULDER?
            1. Pamir
              Pamir 15 October 2020 23: 59 New
              0
              Or all (antivirus)? Special in an hour.
              Finita la comedy, everything is clear, the fuse has faded, and the clever commentator has merged.
              Your card is a bit sir, and with what cards you have on your shoulder straps, decide for yourself.
        2. antivirus
          antivirus 16 October 2020 01: 06 New
          -3
          glad that hooked ............................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...................... and korezhit
          1. Pamir
            Pamir 16 October 2020 08: 12 New
            0
            Rejoice further. But in essence, there is nothing from you? Distributor of the world. So, in essence, will you answer your loud statements? Then do not judge, but you will not be judged before you go over to the individual. And why should you be upset? You provoked, received in response. You need to think before you engage in provocation. Pokedova, the smart guy.
  • Yuriy71
    Yuriy71 15 October 2020 22: 06 New
    +3
    “But using such special ships to guard offshore gas fields and fight terrorists and sea pirates, as Egypt intends to do with its Mistrals, is hardly advisable. This experience is not suitable for us. There are other classes of ships for this. "- What classes of ships do you have in stock? And you know that sailors on Small Rocket Ships, while they get to the "African horn", to the area of ​​pirate rampage - from seasickness Vomit their guts! These ships are not designed for seaworthiness with such a ball!
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 15 October 2020 22: 24 New
    -3
    ships that no one needs, just cut funds, what are the expeditionary opportunities? they are not and will not be for the next 30 years, there are two BODs on two frigates, two old cruisers, on the Pacific Fleet there are three submarines, one cruiser, one frigate, on the Black Sea Fleet there are four frigates and one sooo old cruiser, ... everything ... and everything is very old, has already served its time, the litany transient at any moment is ready to go out of action forever, and why and where are you going to throw 1000 infantry?
  • denis obuckov
    denis obuckov 15 October 2020 22: 59 New
    0
    Someone will explain why you need a flight deck narrowed to the bow? (As shown in the mockup) Is it for the sake of reducing the area and keeping the helicopter tight? The flight deck should be rectangular in plan. It would be better to make an additional lift-lift. Moreover, judging by the layout, the elevators are in the middle of the deck. Although, the practice of using such ships in the world has proven numerous advantages of the onboard location of elevators. Look at least at the "ancient", but war-tested, design of the UDC "Tarava". Why can't you repeat it? Do not try to "do it our way and even better", but just repeat?! ... Again, "Krylovtsy" blinded an atsoy project! When will the insane spending on R&D projects, the design quality of which is lower than any criticism, stop ?!
  • kieferandreas
    kieferandreas 16 October 2020 01: 34 New
    +1
    And that groups are no longer transported by air to Syria? Airborne groups!
    A PROPOSAL to develop Thermoplans for air transportation of the same 100 tons of cargo, faster and cheaper.
    Mattresses are put in bases all over the world and Russia can, if it wishes, create a top with thermoplans along the entire border such a line that will enlighten the entire space with lakatars for 500 km, and if necessary, then the Airborne Forces from the top came down to help.
    Why don't Thermoplanes are made on them and drones can be stationed but Helicopter carriers do?
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 16 October 2020 05: 15 New
    +2
    Quote: Alexander X
    But once laid down, it's already good. It's great that, as they say, all the components are domestic.

    Quote: Vadim_888
    Drive a ship with a displacement of up to 30000 tons so that it launches a UAV for target designation?

    Quote: URAL72
    Also, we have significant interests in the region, or do you really think the fleet is so worried about pirates? And there is Persian nearby.

    Still, Alexander Sergeevich was very wise, perspicacious and knew how to notice subtleties:
    And our old men ?? - How enthusiasm will take them,
    They will condemn deeds that a word is a sentence, -
    After all, the pole ones, they don't blow anyone in the mustache;
    And sometimes they talk about the government like that,
         What if someone overheard them ... trouble!
    Not that novelties were introduced - never,
         God save us! No. And they will find fault
         To that, to this, and more often to nothing,
         They will argue, make some noise, and ... disperse.

    Retired direct chancellors - in the mind!
         I'll tell you, the time is not ripe,
         But that will not do without them. -

    And the key here:
    On May 23, 2020, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation signed a contract for the construction of two similar ships of Russian design with the Kerch shipyard Zaliv.

    It is a pity that the author did not provide such information:
    The cost of these helicopter carriers will be about 100 billion rubles ... The lead ship is planned to be handed over to the fleet in 2026, the second helicopter carrier - in 2027 ...
    That is, there are at least six to seven years of stubborn development of budget billions ahead. And only after that the true purpose of the laid UDC will be revealed. Although, approximately, their purpose will determine the course of construction of naval bases in the Mediterranean.
    For those who like to use ships of this class in northern latitudes, I can advise you to spend a couple of days in winter in a metal garage at an air temperature of 20 ° C and below ... The sensations and experience gained there will help you draw conclusions on the use of UDC in northern latitudes ...
    To be honest, I just can't imagine a military doctrine for the Russian Navy. I can’t think of, I don’t know how and where to put both tank the ship - in the center or on the flanks. " I got the impression that someone not only personally does not at all imagine the tasks that the Russian fleets are able (should, must) perform, but also does not know how to explain them in an accessible form to those interested. And therefore the construction of ships (and even their design) proceeds according to the principle: "the day has passed - and thank God" ...
    Do you understand? I am not sure that the Russian Navy will gain power with the commissioning of these particular helicopter carriers ... But stop we just have to talk about it.
    hi
  • Nazar
    Nazar 16 October 2020 07: 33 New
    +4
    Quote from the article: "... The issue of supplying a group of troops there with everything necessary is all the more urgent ..." - colleagues, using landing ships for supply is out of poverty. For supply, you need to use specialized ships, and not ruin the resource of landing ships, as it happened with the Syrian Express, but this was forced, I repeat - from poverty. Has the experience of Syria taught you nothing? Are they planning poverty for years to come and are they going to drive newly built UDC instead of transport workers? Or is it just the author himself added a little "tasks" for ULC? hi
  • yehat2
    yehat2 16 October 2020 10: 48 New
    +3
    add a bit of grunt
    firstly, UDC without adequate floating facilities is half depreciated
    chamois and boats of project 02510 are absolutely not enough.
    We need amphibious transport vessels, which the Americans have gotten used to, in addition, it is necessary to equip the UDC to simplify the loading and unloading of equipment in the port, again, as the Americans have already done. You don't need to invent anything, you just need to do it at least as good as a recognized leader in logistics.
    Next, we need more seaworthy and sea-resistant armored vehicles. There were tests recently. Very disappointing. BRDM-2 and BTR80 are completely unsuitable. They only have a chance of not drowning in fine weather, nothing more.
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 16 October 2020 18: 37 New
      +1
      BRDM-2 and BTR80 are completely unsuitable. They only have a chance of not drowning in fine weather, nothing more.


      In Kazakhstan, in the Caspian Sea in 2015, during an exercise, a squall of 4 armored personnel carriers drowned 80.
      "Having overcome about 150 meters by sea, due to a strong gust of wind and a high wave that rose, four units of the BTR-80 sank"
      So the hope for good weather is not always justified.

      And you can forget about the over-the-horizon landing, using the BTR-80 on its own.
      1. yehat2
        yehat2 16 October 2020 22: 27 New
        0
        here I disagree. in Kerch, the armored personnel carrier sailed very briskly - it is much more reliable than the BRDM-2
        much depends on the condition of the car and its load, the experience of the carrier. But he is too weak on the wave.
        The car should not critically depend on the agility of the carrier and gusts of wind.
        For comparison, I would like to give a picture of an American amphibian. This thing doesn't swim well too
        but storm 2 ballroom is quite normal for her

        to fill it, the wave must be half a meter more than for the BTR-80
        but this box, which is flooded, has a chance not to drown.
  • Lavrenty1937
    Lavrenty1937 16 October 2020 11: 43 New
    0
    The NATO naval forces have about a 20-fold superiority over us in the number of AUG (we believe that Kuznetsov is in the ranks). The adversary is assured of domination of the sea (in the ocean). Therefore, the Russian Navy can only NOT ALLOW THE DOMINANCE OF THE ENTIRE IN SEPARATE AREAS - where the SSBNs will carry out combat service and where the anti-aircraft forces of the Navy will strike at the NATO AUG. Namely - in the north-east of the Atlantic and north-west of the Pacific Ocean. And UDC and BDK WILL NOT HELP THEM WITH ANYTHING. In the short term, the Fleet does not need them. But they began to build and, most likely, will be built. In such a situation, useless ships must be re-equipped: amphibious and combat helicopters should be replaced with anti-submarine helicopters. And use it to ensure the stability of SSBN and anti-submarine forces. Only in this way can we usefully use unnecessary UDCs.
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 16 October 2020 14: 13 New
      0
      At one time, the plans for the use of the Mistrals were approximately the same and sounded: as the core of the PLO at the Pacific Fleet.
  • UltraRed
    UltraRed 17 October 2020 12: 29 New
    0
    Somehow, the comments about the seaworthiness of the BTR-80 are very pessimistic.
    Certainly not a destroyer, but with a competent "lock", a working pump and a well-trained driver, the seaworthiness of the 80s completely overlaps the storm restrictions on disembarkation when leaving the ramp and going ashore.
    The main problem of the BTR-80, as a landing vehicle, is its poor maneuverability when going ashore (it is heavy for wheeled vehicles).
    PS Service experience in the USSR / Russian Federation Navy - about 10 years, "if sho" ..... :)
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 17 October 2020 14: 11 New
      0
      with a competent "lock", a working pump and a well-trained driver

      It is quite possible that all this was not enough for the marines of Kazakhstan, when the new armored personnel carriers were drowned. They do not have much experience in landing, due to the lack of landing craft.
  • chingachguc
    chingachguc 17 October 2020 17: 35 New
    +1
    helicopter carriers can be used where there is no or minimal air threat. And of course, landing operations.
  • nnz226
    nnz226 17 October 2020 21: 01 New
    +1
    It will be good if they build without delays and problems. And so the construction time, in comparison with the times of the USSR, is indecently delayed ...
  • VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK 18 October 2020 08: 42 New
    0
    Mark my word! All UDCs will be driven to the Black Sea Fleet! Drive cargo to Syria and cover Moscow from the south! And Moscow is the head of Russia! And the fact that the ass is without TF pants, Moscow does not care! And the ground forces in the Far East have problems too! Equipment from the 70s! The State Duma will arrange a landing somewhere in Mallorca or the Canals in case of flight! If the ships are not immediately equipped with ice protection, then there is nothing to talk about! There are at least four of them on the TF! Two ships will be enough for the Black Sea Fleet, and then the question of the need is in question! What kind of treaty of Montreux can we talk about if the Bosphorus is blocked! At the TF, Japan can also block all the straits! But you can keep some, if not the main one, in Kamchatka! We have TF Sakhalin, the Kuriles to be protected! And drive to Syria for the hidden transfer of troops, wait! After all, when we got rid of the ships of the "Minsk" type, nobody was planted! Was this not a condition, for example, the Japanese or someone else about their disposal! After all, there was already an example when at the beginning of the last century the Japanese demanded to dismantle all the guns of the Vladivostok fortress! And note that there was no Soviet power yet! Need TF
    strengthen! A TTX is discussing! May they be driven back and forth to Syria! And maybe further! They will say came in on a friendly visit! And in fact? In the Baltic, they are not needed at all, but in the Northern Fleet it is questionable. It can be just strong, ice conditions! If the first thing they are put on the Black Sea Fleet it will be a state crime! After all, if the situation in the world worsens, they will become museums at the Black Sea Fleet! First of all, they are in a hurry to use them as dry cargo ships! For deliveries without inspection! And you discuss the performance characteristics! It's all the same as discussing a combination lock on an oligarch's or deputy's diplomat!
  • rica1952
    rica1952 18 October 2020 11: 34 New
    0
    I wonder who will supply the engines for these toys or have not thought about that yet.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 19 October 2020 12: 07 New
    0
    I remember very well how in 2012-13, colleagues and all interested in the fleet actively criticized "the Frankivsk semi-civilian DCK" Mistral ", suitable for warm calm seas. But clearly did not fit into the harsh everyday life of the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet. So many Oland did not give up two ships, but returned the money. Of course, I would like to receive a fine from francs more. But ... money + experience, really (-) time wassat
    And now, after a few, let's see what conclusions from this story were made by the customers of the Navy and developers + shipbuilders.
  • vel1163
    vel1163 21 October 2020 13: 53 New
    0
    Already tired of reading how everything will be with us. Pictures are beautiful.