Motor Sich or UEC-Klimov? Who will get the Indian contract for the repair of helicopter engines

Despite the aggravation of relations between Beijing and New Delhi, Motor Sich, part of whose shares were previously acquired by companies from China, is preparing to receive a contract to overhaul the engines of the Indian Air Force Mi-17V5 helicopters.

As the edition of The Asian Age explains, the Motor Sich company located in Ukraine is one of the world's leading manufacturers of helicopter and aviation engines. As Reuters pointed out in August this year, Chinese investors, through Skyrizon, acquired approximately 80 percent of the company’s shares using a series of commercial "seals." However, the United States put pressure on the Ukrainian judicial system so that the courts overturn the deal with the Chinese side.

Sources of The Asian Age reported that the Indian Ministry of Defense intends to repair the VK-2500-3 engines with which the Mi-17V5 rotary-wing aircraft are equipped, precisely by Motor Sich, despite the fact that the equipment was purchased from Russia. On September 28, OEC-Klimov OJSC already turned to the command of the Indian Air Force, stating that only a Russian company could repair engines. It was indicated that back in 2018, the Russian Federation revoked Motor Sich's license for servicing VK-2500 power plants.

A delegation from Russia is currently in New Delhi, seeking to conclude a contract for the repair of engines at facilities in St. Petersburg.

If India decides to repair helicopters at Motor Sich, then this will in fact be a violation of the agreement on warranty and post-warranty service.

Comments

[nnm]

It seems that the answer lies in the first paragraph - despite all the courts, blockages, etc., the Chinese can become the owners of Motor Sich or kill it with a lawsuit for $ 3 + billion. And to give your equipment to the service of the enemy's specialists ... - then no dancing around the turntable will help.

[Avior]

About the 3 billion lawsuit is from the realm of fantasy.
Not to mention the fact that the Chinese did not say that they wanted to bring this claim against Motor.

[Egoza]

Quote: Avior

About the 3 billion lawsuit is from the realm of fantasy.
Not to mention the fact that the Chinese did not say that they wanted to bring this claim against Motor.

No matter who they show it, they won't get anything. A penny is dumb.

[nnm]

Well, fiction, in fact, there is none. Investors are not allowed to manage - so, the subject of the claim is completely objective. And do not forget the nuance - China has come out on top in the ranking of Ukraine's trading partners in recent months. And it may well use it.
Yes, without documents on the transaction, it is difficult to say who will be chosen as the defendant in the transaction. China, of course, will want to shift these costs to the budget, because Motor Sich will simply throw up its hands, even having received a decision to recover 3 billion. But here you need to know the details of the deal and negotiations.

[Avior]

The Chinese directly say that the claim is not against a private Motor, but against the state.
But while this is just talk, there is no claim.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: Avior

Not to mention the fact that the Chinese did not say that they wanted to bring this claim against Motor.

And not to mention the fact that in the recent past, the hols were repaired by Indian AN-32s. Even the yogis were stunned by the result. https://vg-news.ru/n/113606

[Avior]

Motor works with India very actively, and India is not going to refuse this cooperation.
As for your exile, this is an attempt by some of the Indian officials to shrug off responsibility for their mistakes.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/biz.liga.net/amp/all/transport/article/komu-vygodno-chtoby-v-ukraine-propali-5-indiyskikh-an-32-
This has nothing to do with Motor

[Polite Moose]

Quote: Avior

Motor works with India very actively, and India is not going to refuse this cooperation.

If the Chinese stuck their sting there, then the Indians may have problems with cooperation.

Quote: Avior

As for your exile, this is an attempt by some of the Indian officials to shrug off responsibility for their mistakes.

Hard to say. Five years ago it was. But, as they say: Spoons were found, but the sediment remained.

[Avior]

The Indians did not stay, since nothing was lost
How they worked with the Motor, so they work

[Zaurbek]

Is Motor Sich approved for overhaul of VK-2500? That's the question. And warranty obligations follow.

[Avior]

And what are these warranty obligations?
If repair is already needed, what kind of guarantee are we talking about?

[Zaurbek]

Well .... replacement under warranty, in case of disaster x some kind of responsibility

[Avior]

We are already talking about the repair, what is the replacement under warranty?

[Zaurbek]

If the repair is done by an unapproved structure, the warranty will be canceled. And when the warranty ends, fix it where you want. This is how it works on cars.

[Avior]

When it comes to repairs under the manufacturer's warranty.
And if not about warranty repair of the engine, then the warranty is canceled in any case, and then the warranty for repairs from repairmen.
Here is the second case.

[Zaurbek]

And if the VK2500 engine, the repairman must have a certificate or admission to such work? It's not TV3-117 anymore, is it?

[Avior]

TV3-117 is a generic name.
VK2500 is one of its modifications, another name may be misleading.
http://www.motorsich.com/rus/products/aircraft/turboshaft/

[orionvitt]

Quote: Avior

the Chinese did not say that they want to bring this claim against Motor

"Motor" has absolutely nothing to do with it. He is the object of the transaction, not the subject. All questions and claims to Ukraine. But from Ukraine, like water off a duck's back, as always, they pretend to be a hose, make a brick face, and like we don't know anything, we haven't seen anything. They will sing an old song that either they did not read the contract, or they did not understand what they read. On the other hand, all engines on Indian helicopters of the MI-17 type are produced by Motor Sich. The license "Klimovtsy" may have been revoked, but you never know what is in mind. Maybe the Indians will come to an agreement with the "motorists" on the cheap. Here we must also take into account another turn of events. "Motor Sich" has been in a frank "opera" for six years already. There are few orders, salaries are very low, specialists leave, and, accordingly, competence and quality are lost. It is not clear whether the Indians will take the risk. We will see.

[Avior]

What contract are you talking about?
Neither the Chinese nor the Indians have any complaints about Motor

[orionvitt]

Quote: Avior

What contract are you talking about?

And on what basis did the Chinese buy Motor shares? According to an oral agreement? Also, read carefully before writing out the answers. Show me where it says to Motor Sich, who has a claim?

[Civil]

1. Black's bishop announces a tender.
2. Zhovto-balkitna pawn offers the lowest price.
Black's bishop is chasing a black and white pawn with substandard engines.
Checkmate.

[nnm]

3. And all this despite the fact that the white queen, to which the pawn owes a penny, is constantly trying to corner the black bishop.
Santa Barbara )))

[tralflot1832]

And the castling option won't work?

[TermNachTer]

The claim is against the state - Banderlyand, not against the plant. Because the plant "de facto" them, it remains to issue "de jure". For "Motor" this order is a matter of survival, since the plant is on the verge of shutting down due to lack of work.

[Same lech]

... For "Motor" this order is a matter of survival, since the plant is on the verge of shutting down due to lack of work.

The sheriff's Indians do not care about the problems of the Indians ... we should only be interested in Russia's interest in this matter ... we do not need such a competitor as Motor Sich.

[TermNachTer]

This I mean that "Motor" will agree to any conditions of the Indians.

[iouris]

He is not a competitor, but a supplier.

[Avior]

The same fact, just on the Motor, practically nothing has changed, the same people operate as before the purchase, and Boguslaev behaves in the same way as an owner, as before.
The Chinese have outsmarted themselves, are accustomed to catching and resolving issues on quiet, without straining to formally execute the law, as they usually do, and got into problems this time

[TermNachTer]

There are changes - a number of leaders who were deputy generals for 15 - 20 years have been removed. Why this is not clear. Until he rules, until the Chinese resolve the dispute with the AMCU. There is gossip that Bogus started this "fuss" so as not to give the plant to narrow-film, but this is at the level of gossip.

[Avior]

There is one boss on the Motor - this is Boguslaev himself.
The rest change periodically, sometimes very quickly.
This is not connected with the Chinese, but rather with the personality of Boguslaev himself, who is called the "general" behind his back.

[TermNachTer]

Yes, but those two who were replaced recently sat in their posts for more than 20 years. Moreover, in their place they put people, to put it mildly - poorly trained.

[Avior]

I will take an interest on occasion, but I have not heard anything about a possible connection with the Chinese of these permutations

[TermNachTer]

Perhaps these permutations do not apply to the Chinese. Most likely this is the "muddy" behind their back. They demanded the position of directors for finance and foreign economic activity, but so far there has been no meeting of shareholders. Accordingly, it is not possible to introduce their representatives to the board of directors.

[Avior]

There periodically rearrangements at the plant, but, with or without Shirkov, foreign economic activity will not become Chinese as long as Boguslaev is in charge and decides everything, no matter how many Chinese are hanging around at the plant.
And the work with India is not interrupted.

[TermNachTer]

These are the main requirements of the Chinese - the positions of Shirkov and Lunin. If the Chinese gave the money, then Boguslaev agreed.

[Avior]

Wait and see

[TermNachTer]

We will see. In Shirkov's place sits a man, softly very weak. The person who is acting. Lunin is still incomprehensible.

[Bar1]

so let's see what this new Russia is capable of, whether it can keep
partners "old friend India, or is this a bummer?

[TermNachTer]

“Klimov” simply will not agree to those that “Motor” will agree to. Unless Russia "crushes" the Indians somehow differently.

[Lipchanin]

If India decides to repair helicopters at Motor Sich, then this will in fact be a violation of the agreement on warranty and post-warranty service.

Who cares now

[Svetlana]

Russia worries us. However, Ukraine and China too.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Svetlana

Russia worries us.

Okay. Who cares about our worries besides us? SP-2, threatened with sanctions, spat on the contract and stopped work.
So I say, they spit on all contracts now, everyone except us

[Svetlana]

This is a different story.
..
And if you do not fight, then they will not care.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Svetlana

And if you do not fight, then they will not care.

And if everyone except us spits, fight everyone?

[Svetlana]

Yes. And defend your position and opinion.
...
Or "Katz offers to surrender"?
****
I run to work and no longer discuss. Sorry.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Svetlana

Or "Katz offers to surrender"?

No. Also spit

[TermNachTer]

Engines "VK-2500" and TV - 3 - 117 are practically the same. Earlier "Motor" repaired them. And now they come for repairs

[Mountain shooter]

The camel has two humps, because life is a struggle! No one canceled competition, but unfair competition is even better (more efficient) ... Without a license, according to the documents, I carried out repairs, sawed money with the customer and ... fly pigeons. After all, "Klimov" will puff, sort out, repair ... where does the money "come from" ... There you also need to spend money on spare parts, assemblies, disassembly, stands - diagnostics ...

[faiver]

After all, "Klimov" will puff, sort out, repair ... where does the money "for kickback" come from ...

- excuse me, are kickbacks a thing of the past in Russia? Did I miss something?

[nnm]

No, as in any other country when it comes to such contracts.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: faiver

excuse me, are kickbacks a thing of the past in Russia? Did I miss something?

Excuse me, but why are you interested? but in essence, for many years in the field of technology in which I work, somehow I have not observed. If you work under Federal Law 44 or 275 through separate treasury accounts - to put it mildly - it's hard to even think of how ... 223 isn't easy either. Contests, auctions. It is possible to add a "resized" price tag, it is impossible to win with it. Auction. For this, there are all sorts of licenses to limit the number of those wishing to participate in competitions. As soon as I hear that the license has been revoked, and the company will carry out the work - well, that means the customer screwed up his eyes with all his might! Or his eyes were "smeared" ... with something sticky?

[nnm]

Oh, colleague, I would like your holy faith in special accounts, 44,223)))))
But there we are talking about an export deal. So kickbacks can be started even outside the contract flows. And let us remember what a scandal there was in Germany over the corruption schemes of Mercedes and Siemens in transactions with Russia. . well there was a scandal, but what's the point? Business is nothing personal.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: nnm

Oh, colleague, I would like your holy faith in special accounts, 44,223)))))

Share how to inappropriately pay money from a special account? When the bank every payment with a magnifying glass! And they constantly demand justification ... I'm not talking about 223, but about 44 and even cooler, 275!

[Malyuta]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Share how to inappropriately pay money from a special account? When the bank every payment with a magnifying glass! And they constantly demand justification ... I'm not talking about 223, but about 44 and even cooler, 275!

I am very sorry, colleague, but you forgot about the cache! If an undistinguished palkan has tons of loot in his apartment, then what banks are you talking about?

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Malyuta

I am very sorry, colleague, but you forgot about the cache! If an undistinguished palkan has tons of loot in his apartment, then which banks are you talking about

Colleague, this Polkan was the lookout for a large cash-out structure. This is NOT HIS money. After he was taken, the price of cashing in Moscow became "uninteresting" from the word completely ... according to rumors ... of course. You would think that EVERY colonel still keeps tons of dough. No, no ...

[Malyuta]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

You would think that EVERY colonel still keeps tons of dough. No, no ...

A second palkovnik also floated up with tons))))
There are many more generals, remember the story about the soldering iron as a truth detector.
In fact, the laws of the Russian Federation are valid exclusively for the plebs, everything else is beyond their scope.
We are trying to assess the situation rationally from the point of view of common sense, but let's try the other way around.
Everything that seems absurd and impossible if we consider statehood, in fact turns out to be quite logical from the position of the organized crime group.
Everything is much worse than we can imagine, here are Argentine suitcases, and Masonic orders, mystical mysteries, thriving occultism, symbolism strange for a common man, Freudian slips of the tongue of Gref and other bureaucrats. Try to look at what is happening not from the position of an engineer, but from the position of an investigator. Obop and everything will fall into place.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: faiver

Without a license, according to the documents, I carried out repairs,

And even with counterfeit parts

[Avior]

This is not necessary, the Motor has produced more than 25000 units of these engines of various modifications in its history, the equipment has long been there for all occasions.
Klimov and began production with a screwdriver assembly from kits supplied by Motor.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Avior

Klimov and began production with a screwdriver assembly from kits supplied by Motor.

Klimov, for a moment, the developer of these engines, isn't he? Of course, the pilot production is not serial, but it seems that production was launched ... Full cycle. Rumored to be 300 pieces a year. Quite a lot.

[Avior]

Klimov is a developer, 50 years ago it was.
After that, various modifications of the engine were made both by Klimov and in Zaporozhye, at their design bureau, but the basis of the engine is still the same and it was the Motor who always produced them, from the very beginning, it has been producing for 50 years.
And development and production are very different things. Those who developed the engine in the 60s, as you understand, are no longer at Klimov.
And on the Motor, the technology has been developed to a high level by continuous active production for 50 years.

... Developed in 1965-1972 at the V. Ya. Klimov Design Bureau (Leningrad) under the leadership of S. P. Izotov and S. V. Lyunevich. Produced in series since 1972 at ZPOM Motorostroitel, now PJSC Motor Sich, Zaporozhye, Ukraine. Since its inception, more than 25 TV000-3 engines of various modifications have been produced, with a total operating time of more than 117 million hours. One of the most reliable aircraft engines in the world [

[Ham]

I worked at "Klimov" in 2019! I saw with my own eyes the boxes in which the engines marked "Motor Sich" are packed, Ukraine and the dates 2017 and 2018 ...

[nnm]

As the saying goes: "if you want to live, you will not be so hot." So they come up with supply schemes through third, fourth countries ...
Although I won't be surprised if everything is done directly, just without unnecessary noise.

[Malyuta]

Quote: nnm

As the saying goes: "if you want to live, you will not be so hot." So they come up with supply schemes through third, fourth countries ...
Although I won't be surprised if everything is done directly, just without unnecessary noise.

I'm sorry, colleague, but you have an extraordinary ability to change shoes in the air.
What does it turn out, the Zhidahahly devoured the snow and on all TV-rf channels they curse 404, when suddenly direct cooperation with an officially unfriendly country emerges.
And where is the import substitution and netanalagafwmire, which our greatest troubadour trumpeted? Or is it HPP and a lot of / moves / points again?
How you can fit and place all this in your head, I cannot understand, alas.

[Ham]

Suddenly direct cooperation with an officially unfriendly country emerges.

you think straightforwardly ...
the Americans have imposed "terrible and terrible" sanctions against Russia, but this does not prevent them from cooperating in the areas they need ...
you need to look at things easier ... and treat people better;)

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Ham

I worked at "Klimov" in 2019! I saw with my own eyes the boxes in which the engines marked "motor sich" are packed, ukraine and the dates 2017 and 2018.

Whole engines? That is, you want to say that having received a motor from Ukraine, Klimov changes the markings and documentation, repackages it in OWN boxes and sends it to the customer?

[Ham]

No, I want to say that the Sumerians are modernizing their dviglo on the "Klimov" without giving a damn about any sanctions-shmanctions ...
"Klimov" is not only about repairs ... specifically, I worked there where old engines are tested on new types of fuel ...

[maktub]

Motor Sich is a "red list" enterprise and is not subject to full privatization, 51% belongs to the state and whoever "fools"

[iouris]

This "state" has been selling itself for a long time.

[Sibguest]

Zita and Gita are all in search of how and where to buy / repair cheaper, regardless of the contract ...
Nude ...

[Kurare]

Quote: Sibguest

... everything is in search of how and where to buy / repair at a cheaper price ...

If it allows you to drop the price, why not. But, in my opinion, the days of Motor Sich are numbered.

In general, this fuss is an echo of the great past of the USSR. As long as customers have products of the Soviet era in stock, everyone and sundry will try to take a piece of the service pie. There are many examples of this. Unfortunately, there are also enough tragedies because of this.

[Avior]

Indians are still lovers of creating difficulties with military equipment, but in this case the situation is ambiguous.
The Motor has high competence in these engines, nothing at all was produced at Klimov, some of them were assembled from kits supplied by the Motor itself, on the Motor the production of the TV3-117 series of various modifications - tens of thousands in history, the technologies have been worked out to the smallest details.
Secondly, the Ukrainian version of the engine has a noticeably longer resource than Klimovsk, which is understandable, in general, Klimov began to make them relatively recently with the help of the Motor.
Third, the motor does the job cheaper
Fourth, the Indians have been actively cooperating with Motor for a long time, and the story with the Chinese did not scare them away.
Therefore, if they order from Motor, it will not be surprising, especially since the guarantee is purely conditional now.

[Tneburashka]

At the moment, Motor Sich is a champion in the production and repair of these engines, India just wants to make repairs from the best

[ZEMCH]

Quote: Tneburashka

Motor Sich is a champion in the production and repair of these engines

The turntables in question are already VK-2500, produced by Klimov

[Kot_Kuzya]

Hindu flag in hand, drum on neck and locomotive to meet. They will lose billions of dollars on horses, then they will still turn to Russia.

[Ru_Na]

Well, if the Indians want to repair in Ukraine so much, then please, we wash our hands, just let them not complain about the results of the repair later, and the Croats will tell you what they can be!

[rotmistr60]

this will in fact be a violation of the warranty and post-warranty service agreement

And this should include penalties? And then somehow it turns out cleverly - a service contract with Russia, and they are going to repair it in Ukraine (is it cheaper?). This is a question directly to the Indian side, which is constantly wagging in the conclusion and compliance with the terms of contracts.

[Elturisto]

What a surprise, the Indians do not want to unfasten the loot to the clowns from the UEC, who wanted to cut the loot on hohlyatsky engines ...

[ZEMCH]

Quote: ElTuristo

cut down the dough on hohlyatsky engines ...

There Klimovsk engines have been installed for a long time, India was already supplied with them

[iouris]

After the "victory of democracy" in St. Petersburg, land, real estate and competitive salaries have grown dramatically. Since the 1990s, efficient managers have "reduced costs": the plant. Klimov gave out Zaporozhye products to the mountain. Competencies (value judgment) were lost. The company was headed by ... a diver. But, perhaps, everything has been restored at an accelerated pace (value judgment). I wonder what choice India will make. Very interesting.

[Alien From]

Of course, the Chinese will give Sichu the contract, they hope to get their hands on it eventually.

[ZEMCH]

If India decides to repair helicopters at Motor Sich, then this will in fact be a violation of the agreement on warranty and post-warranty service.

If we remove the guarantee, the Indians will be tortured to repair themselves. Or you will have to pay more for each visit of specialists)))

[Avior]

Motor Sich will do the same for less.
He has been the main manufacturer of these engines for 50 years.

[Zementbomber]

FFSIO in this post is great!

Motor Sich is one of the world's leading manufacturers of helicopter and aviation engines.

However, the United States put pressure on the judicial system of Ukraine in order to the courts canceled the deal with the Chinese side.

The materiel must be taught - the deal simply did not approve (indeed at the "urgent request" of Donald, expressed by Ze) NAMKU, without whose approval - the deal is legally null and void (by the way, that is why the claim of "narrow-eyed little yellow t-risches" has the prospect of "absolute zero level" ).

It was indicated that back in 2018, the Russian Federation revoked Motor Sich's license to service VK-2500 power plants.

The same is legally null and void. Nobody outside of Russia will even glance at this "review". Even in the EurAsEC and the CSTO - not to mention what you called "Far Abroad" in the 90s.

[Lord of the Sith]

There is a helicopter engine repair plant in Lugansk)))

[wow]

Strange guys these Indians .... Kakly money will take and that's it! No more "Indian pertners" will see any engines or denyuzhkov.

[Zomanus]

And let the Motor Sich be given for repairs. They will "repair" so that then the Indians will have to buy new engines from us.

[lvov_aleksey]

flag in their hands, if they do not want to be friends with Russia, only we produce turntables

[av58]

Russian companies cannot prevent the Indians from concluding a contract for the repair of the VK-2500, but leaving the Indians after that without post-warranty (especially warranty) service is easy.