"Challenge to NATO's unity": Greece will buy Rafale fighters and increase the size of the army amid aggravation with Turkey

Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis made a statement on the need to increase the country's combat potential. Greek Prime Minister says the country needs strengthening aviation and the naval component.

Kyriakos Mitsotakis, while on a working trip in Thessaloniki:

It's time to strengthen our military forces. To do this, we will purchase 18 Rafale and 4 helicopters from France. We will also purchase four frigates for our Navy. We will increase our armed forces by 15 thousand people. This is an important program for the formation of a renewed national shield.

These statements from the Greek prime minister came against the background of the aggravation of the situation in the eastern Mediterranean. Greece believes that Turkey is violating the agreement by carrying out "unauthorized activities in the area of ​​the Greek islands." Turkey's attempts to start exploration and production of hydrocarbons are considered these "unauthorized actions" in Athens.

French Defense Minister Florence Parley welcomed Greece's choice of French weapons.

Meanwhile, Europe states the following: for the first time in recent years, one NATO state is arming itself against another state of the bloc, without hiding it. Brussels considers the aggravation between Greece and Turkey "a new challenge to North Atlantic unity, NATO unity."

In Turkey, they say that France "unconstructively takes a position to support Athens."

Comments

[hrych]

Great, I hope the contract is not for construction, but ready-made Rafali and NATO partner frigates from their units will be handed over to the Greeks. An internal NATO war was not enough for the collapse of NATO and the EU. And it all started so well: the collapse of the USSR, European integration, a blow to the obstinate Yugoslavia, toasts to victory in the Cold War, orders to the distinguished and traitors ...

[SRC P-15]

Quote: hrych

Great, I hope the contract is not for construction, but ready-made Rafali and NATO partner frigates from their units will be handed over to the Greeks.

I support! And thus they will encourage Turkey to leave NATO!

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: SRC P-15

Quote: hrych

Great, I hope the contract is not for construction, but ready-made Rafali and NATO partner frigates from their units will be handed over to the Greeks.

I support! And thus they will encourage Turkey to leave NATO!

That would be good.

[SRC P-15]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

That would be good

Are you hoping to drag Turkey to your side?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: SRC P-15

Are you hoping to drag Turkey to your side?

No.

[SRC P-15]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

No.

Do you think that Turkey's withdrawal from NATO will free the Turks' hands? And she will lead a completely different policy in Syria? And not only in Syria?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: SRC P-15

Quote: Aron Zaavi

No.

Do you think that Turkey's withdrawal from NATO will free the Turks' hands? And she will lead a completely different policy in Syria? And not only in Syria?

It's just that the Turks have become insolent.

[Oquzyurd]

Look in the mirror carefully.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Oquzyurd

Look in the mirror carefully.

Look. The Turks are doing what they absolutely do not need, solely because of their leader's furrying. A large country with a huge population, with a decent level of economic and general development. Develop calmly and get rich. What Turkey is doing today is a pointless show that adds nothing to either security or the economy.

[Oquzyurd]

Tell me bluntly that in the future this may put your permissiveness, and therefore consider them impudent. The rest is tinsel, "care".

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Oquzyurd

Tell me bluntly that in the future this may put your permissiveness, and therefore consider them impudent. The rest is tinsel, "care".

Permissiveness? Well, whatever you say.

[Oquzyurd]

So far, this is so for you in the Arab environment, but I am not sorry for them, they deserve them, they themselves are to blame.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Quote: SRC P-15

Quote: Aron Zaavi

No.

Do you think that Turkey's withdrawal from NATO will free the Turks' hands? And she will lead a completely different policy in Syria? And not only in Syria?

It's just that the Turks have become insolent.

Israeli Jews have long disliked Erdogan, if only because of their planned gas production in the eastern Mediterranean, where Israeli Jews also have their own interest ...

It is not profitable for Russia to leave NATO, because as long as Turkey is in NATO, there will be discord and vacillation ... in addition, if Turkey takes everything into its own hands, it will be easier for the Russian Federation to negotiate with it alone on gas sales than with the Greeks. Cypriots, Israeli Jews, Libyans, etc.

Germany is not profitable for Turkey to withdraw from NATO, because half of the B and BT in the Turkish Armed Forces are from the German military-industrial complex ... and it is easier to negotiate about keeping refugees in Turkey ...
But the FRG is not profitable for Greece to be in the EU and NATO, since this rogue country weighs ballast on the neck of the FRG and the entire EU ...

The Anglo-Saxons also find it unprofitable for Turkey to leave NATO. after that they will lose control of the Black Sea and the Balkans ....

Thus, the existence of Greece as part of the EU and NATO is not beneficial to anyone ...

[Nikanet]

Aron, it seems to me that the Jews have become much more insolent. What are you like? When the Turks saved you from complete disappearance then they were good, and now a handful of Jews condemn the 85 million state? Yes, arrogance (yours) is the second happiness!

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Nikanet

Aron, it seems to me that the Jews have become much more insolent. What are you like? When the Turks saved you from complete disappearance then they were good, and now a handful of Jews condemn the 85 million state? Yes, arrogance (yours) is the second happiness!

What is the connection between the condemnation of modern politics and the deepest gratitude to the ancestors of modern Turks for their help to the Jewish people?

[Safevi2020]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

What is the connection between the condemnation of modern politics and the deepest gratitude to the ancestors of modern Turks for their help to the Jewish people?

These are the same Turks. And in general, among the Turkic people, the Jewish people have never been listed as enemies as among the Arabs and farces. The Turkish leader grabbed hold of the Palestinians. Although I admit, this is his big mistake. I found someone to quarrel with Israel for. But on the whole, the Turks are not enemies of the Jews. This has been shown by both history and the relationship of commoners to Jews today.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Sefevi2020

Quote: Aron Zaavi

What is the connection between the condemnation of modern politics and the deepest gratitude to the ancestors of modern Turks for their help to the Jewish people?

These are the same Turks. And in general, among the Turkic people, the Jewish people have never been listed as enemies as among the Arabs and farces. The Turkish leader grabbed hold of the Palestinians. Although I admit, this is his big mistake. I found someone to quarrel with Israel for. But on the whole, the Turks are not enemies of the Jews. This has been shown by both history and the relationship of commoners to Jews today.

Am I talking about the attitude of the Turkic-speaking peoples towards Jews? It's not even about Turkey, but about Turkish politics in recent years. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that it is destructive, and first of all for Turkey.

[borberd]

Not only because of the Palestinians. Erdogan does not like the fact that Israel has begun to make peace with the Arabs lately. The Turkish government condemns any peace agreement between Arabs and Jews. Although it is welcomed all over the world, except for Hezbollah terrorists and Iranians. Most likely, Erdogan fears that peace between Israelis and Arabs will interfere with his plans to recreate the Great Port.

[Shurik70]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

Are you hoping to drag Turkey to your side?

Turkey will not become a reliable ally. Nobody. Which proves right now.
Russia - even more so. Historical memory will get in the way.
Turks are on their minds.
As an economic partner, they are welcome. As a military ally, let them endure seventy years of successful partnership first (but they won't, they will try to throw it!)

[Keyser soze]

And thus they will encourage Turkey to leave NATO!

That would be great!

[pytar]

And thus they will encourage Turkey to leave NATO!

That would be great!

Support!

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Keyser Soze

And thus they will encourage Turkey to leave NATO!

That would be great!

Why didn't Turkey please you? It seems like NATO allies, go and all the URs from the XV period on the border with Turkey were bulldozed ... nice guys will protect you from aggressive Russia ... and Greece with which you have territorial problems ... you don't know what you want .. ...

[Keyser soze]

Like NATO allies

The Tambov wolf is their ally ...

Greece with which you have territorial ...

We have no territorial disputes. With no one. Everything was settled long ago. Our policy of zero problems with neighbors is still working.

[Clear]

Quote: Keyser Soze

Like NATO allies


The Tambov wolf is their ally ...

Tin!

[pytar]

Why didn't Turkey please you?

If Turkey climbs the Balkans, all our local graters will be instantly forgotten! These are little things.

Like NATO allies ...

Information: Keyser soze (Eugene) "The Tambov wolf is their ally ...."

... and Greece with which you have territorial problems ...

What ter. Problems?? What are you about?!? It has no borders in the European Union in the classical understanding of this concept! Me that in Bulgaria, that in Greece, Romania, Italy, etc. no difference!

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: pytar

If Turkey climbs the Balkans, all our local graters will be instantly forgotten!

We see how it works the other way around. While Turkey does not climb into the Balkans, in the Balkans who is the enemy and who is the friend is instantly forgotten. Whether it will work the other way around is a big question.

[pytar]

Quote: Boris ⁣Razor

We see how it works the other way around. While Turkey does not climb into the Balkans, in the Balkans who is the enemy and who is the friend is instantly forgotten. Whether it will work the other way around is a big question.

In recent decades, it has been possible to strengthen good neighborly relations between the 4 main Balkan countries - Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia. They were better than in all history. The problem with Kosovo remains, but there is progress with its solution. There will be no compromises. The Balkans realized that it is better to be friends than to fight among themselves. The example of European countries is obvious. Erdogan's aggressive policy raises questions not only in the Balkans, by the way.

[no better place for]

You are zero without a stick in NATO. In addition to the United States, only the Turks are something of a military plug. And people like you, selected for the sake of show, zero sense

[Finches]

Greeks are not wars, Greeks are philosophers and consumers of Metaxa ... The Turks will quickly bend them, if they want, together with a reinforced aviation and naval component, but for us the very fact of squabbles between NATO countries is satisfactory!

[hrych]

Quote: Finches

Greeks are not war

Are the Turks warriors? Do not confuse with the Ottomans. The main population of Turkey is the slaves of the Ottomans, i.e. descendants of the same Turkic, Islamized Greeks The Kemalist military caste, which ruled Turkey for a century, was destroyed by Erdogan. Now officers and strategists are random people loyal to the regime. The army is a conscript, and the opportunity to officially pay off, fills it with poor people with low IQ. There are tens of millions of Kurds in the rear, which the Greeks do not have. And to give them MANPADS, and modern ATGMs and hello, they will do business. The Greeks will supply. Greece is strong with alliances with Europeans, Egyptians and even Jews. Who are the Turks? Mighty Baku?

[Finches]

The Turks, with all the moments you have cited, are a little more war than modern Greeks, and then, this is the second largest army of the alliance after the United States and the second in combat readiness! Moreover, with units that have a certain combat experience due to the same fuss with the Kurds, and the Greeks have so far only one experience - the consumption of Metaxa! And I am writing this with respect for the Greeks, and now if they turned to Russia for help, and not to the multi-colored European armies, then their chances of success in graters with the Turks would have increased dramatically! And so, personally, I bet on the Turks!

[hrych]

Then to the statistics. In terms of frigates and submarines, almost parity, and in the network of islands, Greek missile boats will be very effective. The Turks have no advantages on the water. The land border is such that from the side of Greece it is necessary to defend the Radop Mountains, and the Turks from the swampy coast to cross the Maritsa. Here the numerical and armored advantage rests on geography. The combat experience of punishers sometimes works the other way around. The enemy's regular units are not Kurds with light weapons, they will work with aviation, navy and missiles. I bet on Greece, especially since the Russian Federation should put a knife (even a kladenets) in someone's back and still clean up Constantinople

[Finches]

I hope in practice we will not find out which of us is right! In general, I do not want to turn this region into a hotbed of military confrontation! But the last military conflict ended in favor of the Turks, though it was already danvo, but nevertheless - this is if we talk about statistics! Now that victory is celebrated in Turkey as a national holiday. And in 1974, the descendants of the proud Janissaries completely squeezed out a part of Cyprus ... By the way, about the Janissaries - they, during Greece's stay in the Ottoman Empire, specifically diluted Greek blood, so today you can't really understand where the pure Greeks are, and where Not really...
Today, Russia does not need to plant anything in this conflict - it needs to be closely watched from the outside! Yes, we have not forgotten that in the Russian-Turkish war of 1877 the Greeks were for us, but today we need to play the card of neutrality, just enjoying how the bloc of military "like-minded" from the alliance is falling apart!

[hrych]

Only the Cypriots fought with the Turks, and then they gave the superior aggressors a good deal. See loss statistics. Even the destroyer is sunk. The Americans and the NATO leadership did not allow Greece to enter the battle.

[Finches]

Then let's take a look at some statistics:

The Turkish army has more than 700000 men and Greece has 140000. Turkey has 4000 tanks and Greece has about 1500 tanks. Turkey has 5000 armored personnel carriers and armored vehicles, while Greece has about 2500. Turkey has 3000 artillery guns and systems (as well as more than 10000 mortars), and Greece has 1100 guns and systems (as well as 6000 mortars).

The Turkish Air Force has 1000 aircraft and Greece has 350 aircraft. Turkey has 250 helicopters and Greece has about 200.

The Turkish Navy has about 100 large warships and submarines, at least 14 submarines, 19 frigates, 8 corvettes, there is also a flotilla of missile boats and a large mine flotilla (30 ships). But Greece has about 70 large warships and submarines: 11 submarines, 13 frigates, 9 old missile boats.

And one more important factor is the economic one! Turkey is a completely self-sufficient country with its own military production, and Greece, unfortunately, today is completely dependent on Germany and the EU ...

Therefore, even though my soul is for the Greeks, I bet on the Turks!

[hrych]

Let's not forget about defensive and offensive tactics. And in Radopi, tanks are useless and Radopi are also wide, hundreds of kilometers away. Turkish army 355 thousand of course, the rest are reservists. Don't get confused. The Greeks have 143 thousand and also have a mob reserve. On land, I repeat, nothing shines for the Turks because of Radop. Smooth on paper, but forgot about ... Radopa

[Finches]

God forbid - I'm really against something!

[Keyser soze]

but forgot about ... Radopa

Bulgarian: Rhodope, Greek: Ροδόπη

And yes, only the lazy does not kick the Turks. They have always, in the last 100 years, had excellent weapons and have always been kicked by both us and the Greeks, together and separately.

[Chifka]

Rodopi cigarettes were sold in the USSR. I didn’t smoke, of course, I was small, but I remembered the name.

[Keyser soze]

The USSR sold Rodopi cigarettes.

It was like that, I smoked :) They were produced in Plovdiv, at the foot of the Rodopi Mountain ... In this series of thoughts the Rodopi is a magically beautiful mountain. If there are Greeks here, they will confirm. It is not tall, but it has magic and beauty and monasteries and ancient sanctuaries and fortresses from pagan times and the rise of mankind.

[tekinoral]

Quote: Keyser Soze

It was like that, I smoked :) They were produced in Plovdiv, at the foot of the Rodopi Mountain ... In this series of thoughts the Rodopi is a magically beautiful mountain. If there are Greeks here, they will confirm. It is not tall, but it has magic and beauty and monasteries and ancient sanctuaries and fortresses from pagan times and the rise of mankind.

And mostly Turks and Pomaks live in the Rhodope Mountains!

[Oquzyurd]

"they were always kicked by both us and the Greeks, together and separately." If the short answer is windbag. Who do you think people are? Believe me, everyone has a lot of knowledge about the past history.

[Keyser soze]

Believe me, everyone has a lot of knowledge about the past history.

This is exactly what knowledge is. Here on the forum there are representatives of many nations who have kicked the Turks in the last 100-200 years .... and yes, they know history perfectly. Yes, and they still have to kick them, as my Russian friends assure me ... they say - yes, wait, we still have to take Constantinople ...

[Oquzyurd]

You can wish for a lot and fantasize. Do not forget, the Turks ruled you for several centuries, but you didn’t have them. Is that enough for you to calm down, "kicking winner"? ..

[Keyser soze]

Do not forget, the Turks have ruled you for several centuries, but not you.

But we will definitely not forget this ... If the Russians go to Constantinople, the Bulgarian corps will join the Russian army. I'm not old, I will personally put on a uniform and volunteer - to the Russian or Bulgarian army.

Remains of those burned by the Turks, in a church, residents of Batak, 1876.

[Oquzyurd]

Leave behind the Russians. They fought a lot for you, and they know how grateful you are. And, stop playing with the bones of the dead people. The Turks also did not forget what you did as the Bulgarian Turks, but they don’t stick it in your eyes, so that the younger generation did not have hatred for you in the depths of my soul.

[Keyser soze]

And, stop playing with the bones of dead people.

These are not lost people, these are residents of Batak who were burned alive in the church. Ladies, today they say to Russians - forget about fascism, but they don't want to. So while at least one Bulgarian is alive, we will always remember and kick you mercilessly. With or without Russians.
Ladies, we will kick the Turks or their sixes, no matter.

[Oquzyurd]

It is good that not all Bulgarians are disposed to be at enmity with the Turks, as this can lead to trouble, for everyone, but above all for the Bulgarians.

[pytar]

It is good that not all Bulgarians are disposed to be at enmity with the Turks, as this can lead to trouble, for everyone, but above all for the Bulgarians.

Jeyhun, I will put it this way: Despite the historical burden, the relations between Bulgaria and Turkey have been an example of good-neighborliness, economic and cultural cooperation for 20 years. At the household level, there are no problems between people. Bulgaria will never initiate any aggressive actions against Turkey! And I would recommend you to look for notes by Kemaly Ataturk about Bulgaria and Bulgarians! He treated the people of Bulgaria and this country with great respect. Aggravation in relations may occur solely because of some of Erdogan's imperial manners, although it must be admitted that today, of all neighbors, Turkey has the best relations with Bulgaria. Let it be so, everything is a different path to nowhere ...

[Oquzyurd]

I completely agree with you. Turkey also values ​​good neighborhood. This is evident in the language of politicians. For decades I have never heard anything negative about Bulgaria from their language. But I have heard about good neighborhood many times.

[tekinoral]

Quote: Keyser Soze

Ladies, we will kick the Turks or their sixes, no matter.

In my opinion, something is wrong with your head?

[pytar]

Remains of those burned by the Turks, in a church, residents of Batak, 1876.

Turks destroyed millions of Balkans! Wherever you go, you can see the facts of their 5 century-old atrocities!

[tekinoral]

Quote: pytar

Remains of those burned by the Turks, in a church, residents of Batak, 1876.

Turks destroyed millions of Balkans! Wherever you go, you can see the facts of their 5 century-old atrocities!

And how many Turks have died, killed in the Balkans since 1978?

[tekinoral]

[quote = Keyser Soze] Remains of those burned by the Turks, in a church, residents of Batak, 1876. [/ quote
And how many were there?

[pytar]

Do not forget, the Turks have ruled you for several centuries, but not you.

Jeyhun, we remember that! And not only us! Greeks, Serbs, Montenegrins, Romanians, even Albanians, everyone in the Balkans remember the blackest period in their history !!

Is that enough for you to calm down, "kicking winner"? ..

So that you calm down! Be happy with what you have, otherwise you will end up badly ... Greed does not lead to good!

[Oquzyurd]

This unpleasant conversation was started by a certain Keyser Soze (Eugene)
Yesterday, 17:11 I just answered.
This is how it begins. History is history. Everyone has something to present to the other. But this is the road to nowhere. Read his post, to whom did he brag about that? For what? What will it give?

[pytar]

Well, when it comes to history, that's always the case. But you must understand that the Turks for the 5th century domination in the Balkans left very bad memories for all the Balkans, even at a subconscious level. And here I will make a parallel with the not less complicated history of intra-Balkan relations! Endless wars, all against all, as a result - a powder keg! Before, no one would have believed that some 20 years would pass and everything would change so dramatically! Now I can not imagine a war between the Balkan countries. An entire generation has grown up that takes advantage of the European civilization model. The conflicts have come to naught. Even as sharp as Kossovsky, sooner or later it will be decided. Turkey looks somewhat embarrassing against this background! Look at the map, how much conflict Erdogan got bogged down in! I know many citizens in Turkey itself do not approve of this! The Sultan's ambitions will not lead to good ... And if it comes to a heated conflict with Greece, which I do not believe, the entire European Union will be involved! No one will benefit from such a confrontation! Well, only external forces, as Ataturk once warned, speaking specifically about relations with Bulgaria! I am deeply convinced that revanchism will open such a "pandora's mouth" that Turkey itself will not seem sweet! I hope that pragmatism and wisdom are healthy, they will lift up!

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Keyser Soze

This is exactly what knowledge is.

So add here to the centuries-old enslavement of the Ottomans by the Bulgarians and Greeks ...

[no better place for]

Well, you all become heroes behind the backs of the Russians?))) Would have been further under the Turkish boot without them. You were nothing militarily, and you remain the same. We know what kind of Russian brothers you are. A little bit to the Germans, or vnato against the Russians. And you support all the resolutions against the Russian Federation and sanctions. And they threw it with a pipe. But behind their backs he wanted to

[tekinoral]

Quote: Keyser Soze

Believe me, everyone has a lot of knowledge about the past history.

This is exactly what knowledge is. Here on the forum there are representatives of many nations who have kicked the Turks in the last 100-200 years .... and yes, they know history perfectly. Yes, and they still have to kick them, as my Russian friends assure me ... they say - yes, wait, we still have to take Constantinople ...

Do your Russian friends know that more than a million Turks live in Bulgaria? A pseudo-patriot nationalist!

[Romeo]

these are Bulgarians "brothers" and Greeks kicked the Turks ?! When was that?

[Nikanet]

The fruit of a sick imagination! This one will even make the idol laugh.

[Cyril G ...]

First Balkan. We study. There was a battle even at sea, after which the Turkish fleet was driven back to the Dardanelles ...

[tekinoral]

Quote: Keyser Soze

And yes, only the lazy does not kick the Turks. They have always, in the last 100 years, had excellent weapons and have always been kicked by both us and the Greeks, together and separately

Don't tell me! Oh, how far is it to the Turkish army, you would know! Are you from the Rhodope Mountains?

[Oquzyurd]

Again you are confusing what you want with reality. After the Turkish UAV raid, in a week you will not find a single whole tank or wheeled vehicle on these Radopi. The Greeks themselves say this, but apparently you know more than the Greeks)

[tekinoral]

Quote: Oquzyurd

After the Turkish UAV raid, a week later on these Radop

Jeyhun in the Rhodopes mainly Turks and Pomaks live! And in the Greek and Bulgarian Rhodope! It's not so simple as they say! Eggs need to attack the Turks, it's true they still think Turkey as at the beginning of the last century 10-14 million

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Oquzyurd

After the Turkish UAV raid, h

Some kind of clownery. Male in the mountains? Is that the Turkish fetish today? After, during the mutiny, the Air Force was well cleaned of the unreliable so that according to a number of data, the manning of the flight personnel dropped to 30 percent! What is there now on the question - but the training of a pilot at least 4-5 years. And a good fighter is still at least three years old.

[Cyril G ...]

I am shifting my old post, still in June. No need to answer. I do not discuss with believers. It's pointless. Facts need to be discussed ...

Destruction of 20 Carapaces in 2020 in Syria and Libya in total. This is a Turkish sketch.
I will provide data from Lost Armor, and Aviation Security Network ...
Here is what is confirmed
The defeat is actually confirmed
Application Pantsir S1E An Nuqat al Khams 2020-05-18, filmed in a hangar, the vehicle shows no visible signs of combat damage. Smoked. This happens with rocket firing. Captured.
The question arose of why the diaphragms in the non-fired TPK were broken.
Application Pantsir S1E Al Marqab 2020-05-20, the defeat of the ASP hangar was removed. Then the Pantsyr damaged in a hangar is removed. Clearly, the pictures could have been taken in different places. However, it doesn’t matter - in the photo there is a crumpled armor, covered in a hangar ....

The question is whether Kamaz on the Trailer should be attributed to the losses, that is, whether it was captured after shooting on the road or burned, for example, later is unclear, there were no obvious signs of fire and serious damage on it. If it pops up at the GNA or pops up again, then we are counting in loss.

Further, now what is not currently confirmed ... From the word in general, but in applications and extremely muddy photos and video files there is .... The director and director of the crew of the Jews are clearly better.

Minus - Application for Pantsir S1E Tripoli 2020-02-28, why someone thought that Pantsir was hit is not clear. But the photo target is not recognizable from the word at all. + photo of two strange blots on a microscope slide .. Photographs of debris are not confirmed.
Minus - Application for Pantsir S1E An Nuqat al Khams 2020-05-18. - 3 photos of a fragment taken at point-blank range of a strange ragged design. Where is the general view by the way? Who else believes that this is Armor? funny!
Minus - Application for Pantsir S1E Misratah 2020-05-20. Nothing. For what they were shooting it is not clear there is no reliable identification and there is no defeat of 9K96. Photographs of the wreckage are not confirmed.
Minus - Application for Pantsir S1E Al Marqab 2020-05-20. The photographs taken are from two different locations. In the first photo, 9K96 is clearly recognizable, well, or a running layout. The rest are not. There are no signs of hitting the target. Photographs of the wreckage are not confirmed.
Minus - Application for Pantsir S1E 2020-05-21. The target in the photo is not recognizable from the word at all. There are no signs of hitting the target. It is not clear what they were shooting at. Photographs of wreckage not confirmed
Minus - Application for Pantsir S1E 2020-05-21. The target in the photo is not identifiable from the word at all. There are no signs of hitting the target. In this case it is not clear what they were shooting at. Photographs of wreckage not confirmed
Is there anything else on them? If there are debris, the status is subject to revision.

In total, the troops of Haftar have reliably lost 2 Armor of the UAE, the Armor on Kamaz is questionable. There is no confirmation of the defeat and incapacitation of the remaining 6 Armors. This is the bottom line. As if the Turks did not jump by pulling the pans and hang the noodles for themselves ...
This is the result if you are not guided by a double standard - I see there, I don’t see there, but here the herring was wrapped.
There is also no reliable confirmation of the fact of the defeat of the Pantsyr combat vehicle in Libya, which would be in a combat-ready state ....

And recall the loss of a GNA UAV
Libya
Turkish TB2S losses in Libya as of 06 Jun20
Total LNA Claim: 78 (w / o; Shutdown)
(It’s clear that part of the applications is most likely Friendly Fire for their Wing Longs and other flying garbage ..)
Confirmed Losts (99%): 19
Probable Losts (90%): 3
Likely Losts (75%): 4
Possible Losts: (50%): 7
Unconfirmed Claims (Probably not realized) (1% -49%): 36
Fake Claims-Neglected- (0%): 9 (46.2% claims)

However, all this information is still not enough for adequate conclusions. It is necessary to have information on the course of battles and the total losses of the parties. Then, and not earlier, it will be clear whether the LNA air defense was able to solve the assigned tasks or not. The won confrontation with Bayraktars does not mean anything in general. Equally, it would be lost.
Moreover, the claims to Pantsyr were and remain equal in terms of both the concept and, first of all, execution, and, most importantly, the tactical weakness of users ....

[Lara Croft]

Quote: hrych

On land, I repeat, nothing shines for the Turks because of Radop.

And they only need island territories ... NATO will not lose anything from this, what's the difference whose islands will be in their area of ​​responsibility ...

[hrych]

Greece is an EU country, but Turkey is not. Secondly, the head of NATO - America has a guest - Erdogan's worst enemy, i.e. Gulen. Also, the overthrown caste was pro-American, secular-Masonic, and Erdogan was an Islamist, albeit moderate. No, Greece is preferable, predictable and all the same to the European mentality.

[Cyril G ...]

I suppose they will not pass through the passes with at least slightly adequate Greek command. And the Turks do not have Marshal Malinovsky and the Trans-Baikal Front and is not expected. So, as in the Balkan Wars, a naval theater of operations is foreseen. And this is already very interesting.

[Oquzyurd]

"Turkey has 5000 armored personnel carriers and armored vehicles," There are now about 11 thousand of them, you have old information. And you forgot to indicate 147 attack drones, which will smear the Greek ground forces in a week, without involving other weapons.

[Keyser soze]

There are now about 11 thousand of them, you have old info.

The Greeks will get hold of good, what luck. Well, they will probably burn half of them, and the others will take them while the Turks' heels are sparkling .... as usual.

[Oquzyurd]

Don't make people laugh, everyone knows who is capable of what.

[Bili]

Yes, but the Greeks will sit and watch as their army is smeared, what century do you live in, or think that here is the same Syria
or Libya.

[Oquzyurd]

The Syrians are stronger than the Greeks, they have been fighting for 10 years. The Sirtaki dancers are not warriors.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Oquzyurd

147 attack drones indicate which will smear the Greek ground forces in a week, without the inclusion of other weapons.

Unmanned aerial vehicles such as Bayraktarov / Anok will run out with a minimum result in three days. In Libya, at least 20-22 of these UAVs were shot down. This despite the fact that a dozen Armors were smeared with a thin layer all over the possessions of Haftar

[Oquzyurd]

Come on. Lost UAVs, for example. They were created for this to cause damage and save the lives of their people. The loss is only in money, and this is tolerable. And the UAVs are still riveted, the conveyor works without stopping.

[Oquzyurd]

When the Turks entered Syria in 2016, the Turks had about 100 combat drones in their possession. For 4 years they have been conducting operations with these devices in Syria, 5 years in Iraq, 1,5 years in Libya. In 2016-20, they sold 12 to Qatar. pieces, Ukraine 6 pieces, Tunisia 6 pieces, Azerbaijan 6 pieces, and after all they have 147 pieces at hand. Think.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Oquzyurd

after all, they have 147 pieces at hand.

And where does this figure come from?

[Oquzyurd]

Specifically about what figure? Turkish bloggers talk about it day and night, how many are in the Armed Forces, how many are in the gendarmerie. These drones, Anka-S, Anka-B, Bayraktar-TB2. And this year adopted a batch of new Karayel-SU (Vestel) drones. able to carry weapons up to 120 kg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71r9BZP08Ww

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Oquzyurd

Think about it.

I thought - took into account the losses - they make about 20-25 Male-type UAVs a year. Probably.

[Oquzyurd]

They do more. Take into account that they do not go to the Armed Forces from the conveyor belt. They pass a long period of tests, the batch is accumulated, then they pass. the material (for the entire building) and then the entire chain is made by ourselves, after the new shop with stoves was built last year.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Oquzyurd

In the introduction of Seljuk Bayraktar, there is that they already let in 1 piece of Bayraktar every week,

Do not read Moscow, oh sorry Istanbul newspapers in the morning. You don't have to believe everything ... There was already a lie about 18 broken Armors in Libya. There is simply no evidence of this. Certainly 1 car was destroyed, the second was captured. There are 3-4 extremely muddy footage on which it is simply unrealistic to draw conclusions.
I already did the analyzes, I will not repeat myself in short.
That to fight with Greece is the same, taking into account the equality of the Air Force as a mineium, the Turks are superior in quantity, but inferior in quality ... Turkey needs a completely different drone. Another class is an unmanned attack aircraft. We need a serial TRDDF with a thrust of 5-8 tons, we need a fundamentally different avionics. In Russia, they have reached such a device. But while they are thinking about a different concept. Namely, an unmanned wingman.
Bayraktar, Orion, Anka, Reapers and other vehicles of this class are completely unsuitable for frontline conditions. Such percussion UAVs are "Police" vehicles.

[Oquzyurd]

You deceive yourself, no more.

[Cyril G ...]

I AM? However, yes. This was expected. There is essentially nothing to say to you. However, no, you are deceiving yourself.
I rely on photo confirmation. I described all this in detail last time, indicating the sources where I can be checked. All this is in my comments section. What do you have? Words you have. If there is a photo of the wreckage, moreover, recognizable, I consider them, if not, I do not consider them. If they give me a wheel from a car and they say that they say Pantsyr, I just find it funny. I gave you the facts, and you started to twitch. Why's that? Because it doesn't fit into your vision of the world? One can feel in your outpourings even some kind of groveling or something.
There is a burnt armor. It previously belonged to the UAE. All. If there is anything else, we will credit the Turks with one more sacrifice. There will be 10 proven cases count 10. In total ...

You see, the loss of more than 20 aircraft in the absence of the enemy's air defense system is a lot, no matter what you now console yourself.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Finches

The Turkish Air Force has 1000 aircraft and Greece has 350 aircraft.

Bggg ...
Well, what is 1000? The Turks have 260 F-16s, the rest is just rubbish .. The Greeks have 156 F-16s and 22 Mirage-2000. At the same time, half of the F-16 belongs to the Greeks, block 52. The most recent Turkish block is 50

Quote: Finches

Therefore, even though my soul is for the Greeks, I bet on the Turks!

And I wish good luck to both !!!

[Shurik70]

Quote: Finches

I hope in practice we will not find out which of us is right

Why?
The hearth is already hot. The death toll in the millions.
A hundred thousand more will help destroy NATO, which will ultimately save tens, if not hundreds, of millions.
So a small war between the Turks and the Greeks can only be welcomed

[Finches]

Not to greet, as it is not Christian, but you can accept with a feeling of deep satisfaction!

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Shurik70

So that a small war between the Turks and the Greeks can only be welcomed

Yes, but last time the Turks fought well against themselves ..

In the summer of 1974, the Turkish Navy was involved in the invasion of Cyprus, which saw the largest "friendly fire" incident in post-war history. During a large-scale battle with its own aircraft, the Turkish destroyer of the Giring type TCG Kocatepe was sunk, the destroyers TCG Adatepe and TCG Tinzatepe were heavily damaged, but they managed to shoot down and damage several Turkish bombers in return fire. On Kocatepe, 78 Turkish sailors were killed, including the captain, and many more were killed on other destroyers.

[paul3390]

in 1974, the descendants of the proud Janissaries completely wrested part of Cyprus ..

Read how it happened .. An epic battle between the Turkish Navy and the Turkish Air Force .. Sea battle at Paphos (1974). Minus one destroyer, two under repair and sort of like a couple of downed planes .. Or google the battle at Skillura .. Warriors, you say? Yes, if the Hellenes of the United States did not have their hands tied, it is not known where they would have stopped then ..

[Lara Croft]

Quote: paul3390

If the Hellenes of the United States did not have their hands tied, it is not known where they would have stopped then ..

Well, now no one will "knit" hands to the "great" Hellenes, we will see ...

[no better place for]

They also knitted the Turks. Neto all cyprus would be busy

[Lara Croft]

Quote: hrych

RF should stick a knife (even a kladenets) in someone's back

The Russian Federation owes nothing to anyone, especially the Greeks and Turks ...

and clean up Constantinople

and then try to hold it ...
You, a young man, can already advance on your "battle" couch to Turkey, when you bring a shield to the gates of Constantinople, sign off ... to VO ...

[hrych]

Quote: Lara Croft

unsubscribe ... on VO ...

Only after the radiation has settled But a joke-joke, Erdogan made a mosque out of Sofia, led to the fact that the matter of honor for the Orthodox to end him. Our leader, as an Orthodox and self-possessed person, will not make any sudden movements, but believe me, he will take revenge.

[Revolver]

Quote: hrych

and clean up Constantinople

Well, let's say no one will allow Russia to "clean up Constantinople". Even if it was the Russians who liberated him from the Turks, he would eventually become the Greek Constantinople. How? Let them arrange another gathering like the Berlin Congress in the XNUMXth century, and decide. But the business is still useful. The cross over St. Sophia will look much more organic than a crescent.

[hrych]

But you need to know the history better. Constantinople never belonged to the Greeks and was not even called Constantinople. Before the renaming of Istanbul, this city was called New Rome or simply Rome, before the capture of the Turks it was the capital of the Roman Empire. Also after the fall by some German who introduced the term Byzantium. The representatives of the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation were exiled from the history of the mess. In turn, Ivan III proclaimed Moscow the Third Rome, having married the Emperor's niece and the Roman State Archives (the Library of Grozny). Therefore, according to the kinship of the Russian tsars with the Roman Emperors by Vladimir Monomakh, the grandson of the Emperor, and by Vasily III, the great-nephew of the Emperor, the legacy of the Roman Empire belongs to Russia. And when the Rurikovichs were replaced by their lateral branch, they adopted the surname Romanovs, i.e. Roman in translation into Russian. You can find Romanov and even dig up Rurikovich. And Alexander II was combined in a morganatic marriage with Ekaterina Dolgoruka - a descendant of the Rurikovichs, preparing an heir to the throne of Constantinople. They had George, Boris (died small), Olga and Ekaterina. George's son Alexander was born in 1900 and died in 1988 (the year of the millennium of the baptism of Rus), and now his grandson Georgy Alexandrovich lives. Olga married Pushkin's grandson and there are descendants there. Catherine has two sons from Baryatinsky. Therefore, in addition to Goshka-Emperor, a swarthy descendant of the Kirillovichs, there are descendants of both the Emperor-Romanov and the Dolgoruky-Rurikovichs. A little excursion.

[Clear]

Quote: Finches

now if they turned to Russia for help

No, no, Zhenya, let yourself, yourself, yourself ...

[Cyril G ...]

Half a year ago, infa slipped through that the Turkish Air Force was provided with flight personnel by 40 percent. The consequence of the purges. Confidence level? I do not know. Part of the F-16s were put into reserve. Hence, by the way, the interest in the purchases and development of the air defense missile system of the DB, and the emphasis on the UAV. Which in the right war will die out instantly.

[hrych]

90 people of elite pilots were blown up so that they wouldn't get off with tomatoes, almost a third were tight, then there was a coup and many coup pilots died or in dungeons. Therefore, it is not surprising. In any case, there must be a shortage of trained, experienced pilots

[Lara Croft]

[quote = hrych] give them MANPADS, but modern ATGMs and hello, they will do business. The Greeks will supply. / quote]
Who would give the Greeks MANPADS and ATGMs ...
[quote] There are tens of millions of Kurds in the rear, which the Greeks do not have. [/ quote]
Greece has in the rear, there are evil Albanians and Kosovars who absolutely do not want to work, but they are big fans of organizing a "rail war" .... and trade in human organs .... and no one canceled refugees thirsting for freebies in Turkey (part refugees with bulging eyes will flee to Western Europe through Greece, and some of the "refugees" will settle in Greece to organize a mess and terror in Greece), so Greece will have several fronts ...

[hrych]

During war and wartime law, your refugees can be processed into fertilizer. Albanians abroad and will not trample on for some Turks to die and lose their statehood. And the Kurds - citizens of Turkey, are already inside the state, they have formed combat cells and have an excellent experience of sabotage, ambushes, etc. Well, to be honest, in science and education Turkey lags sharply behind Europe and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: hrych

During war and wartime law, your refugees can be processed into fertilizer.

3 million people? Ampirialists from the EU are sentimental and tolerant and will not allow the Greeks to misbehave ...

[hrych]

3 million through the checkpoint, and also through Maritsa and through the Rhodope Mountains? By the way, who said that the Turks will have time to maneuver. There will be attacks on control centers, for example, by the French, they have something. An interesting reaction may be from the British, they have bases in Cyprus Akrotiri and Dekelia. They are bound by security treaties with the Cypriots, etc. Where is Erdogan going? Apparently, the economy is brewing full of seams due to the coronavirus and the high involvement of the population in tourism and tomatoes.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: hrych

3 million through the checkpoint, and also through Maritsa and through the Rhodope Mountains? By the way, who said that the Turks will have time to maneuver.

That's for sure, because of the 3 million refugees, the Greeks will have neither time for maneuvers, nor a checkpoint ...

There will be attacks on control centers, for example, by the French, they have something.

Also write about the use of nuclear weapons against Turkey by the "paddling pools", by the way about nuclear weapons, there are 150 nuclear bombs on the American IWB in Incirlik ...

An interesting reaction might be

British, they have bases in Cyprus Akrotiri and Dekelia

Have it true. And the Turks in Cyprus have the 11th AK in two divisions ... so forget about Cyprus ...

The Cypriots are bound by security treaties, etc.

Which did not prevent the Turks from occupying half of Cyprus ...

Where is Erdogan going?

Russian and EU psychiatrists argue about this ...

Apparently, the economy is brewing full of seams due to the coronavirus and the high involvement of the population in tourism and tomatoes.

These problems can be talked about about half of the EU countries ...

[hrych]

What are you straight? Listen to you, because Turkey is a superpower. This is certainly a regional power, of course, lagging behind in equipping the army, economy, etc. Does Turkey have nuclear submarines? No. Is there an ICBM? No. Are there global guidance and tracking systems? No. Is there an early warning system? No. What are we talking about? Self-conceit over the edge? Yes. So you need to know your place. Not for nothing did they attend to the acquisition of the S-400. But this is not enough, it will not help. On someone else's nuclear weapons ... mmm, well then they will definitely be imprinted First, you need to be able to work with him. In general, its presence raises doubts, this is the diocese of the Americans and they do not report what they have in their arsenal, they use Incirlik as masters. What, they will report? And there are Americans ... thousands, they cannot be taken on the move. In short, of course Erdogan will shut up and dry off with a proud head. If not, fuck him and that Turkey that we knew will no longer be.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: hrych

What are you straight? Does Turkey have a nuclear submarine? No. Is there an ICBM? No.

You gave Eco ... from NATO countries only three have them ...

Are there global guidance and tracking systems? No. Is there an early warning system? No.

On this planet, only the United States and one mysterious northern country have them ...

Self-conceit over the edge?

Yes, and ESu does not lag behind the Turks in this matter ... Macron still sees Bonopart in himself no less ...

Yes. So you need to know your place.

And who will indicate this place to the Turks, not by chance, but don't worry, the Turks will always agree with the Anglo-Saxons, without the ESu ...

In general, its presence is in doubt,

You might ...

The United States finds itself in a rather strange situation in connection with the sanctions imposed against the Turkish ministries of defense and energy. The fact is that the day before in the American Ministry of Energy, which is also responsible for the American nuclear arsenal, it was announced on the possible removal of B61 tactical nuclear bombs from Incirlik airbase in Turkey. This was reported by The New York Times.

https://topwar.ru/163586-jeksperty-v-ssha-projavljajut-bespokojstvo-nahozhdeniem-jadernyh-aviabomb-b61-v-indzhirlike-na-fone-sankcij.html
Article from October 15 2019

In addition, the issue of about 150 nuclear charges, which are currently stored at the Turkish airbase, remains unresolved.

https://topwar.ru/175039-ssha-rassmatrivajut-vozmozhnost-zakrytie-aviabazy-indzhirlik-v-turcii.html
Article from Yesterday, 15: 15

And there are Americans ... thousands

More. US Air Force: 39th Air Wing (supply), staff - about 5 thousand.
https://aif.ru/dontknows/file/chto_predstavlyaet_soboy_tureckaya_aviabaza_indzhirlik

If not, fuck him and that Turkey that we knew will no longer be.

And to hell with her ... we still won't get the straits from this, and the Greeks will not be limited only to the role of extras ...
From all this, only the Anglo-Saxons will benefit and Israeli Jews will benefit ...

[borberd]

It was enough for Macron to promise support to the Greeks and announce joint maneuvers, as Edogan immediately recalled the exploration vessel and the cover flock from the Cypriot zone. All his show-off only until such time as the "big uncles" or those who do not care about the wishlist of a show-off will not take care of them.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: hrych

Not for nothing did they attend to the acquisition of the S-400.

The Turks of this class of air defense systems were not given a word at all. And to do something of your own will not work for a very long time. The only option today is adequate to purchase a license for four hundred or at least PMU in order to thoroughly understand everything.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Quote: hrych

Not for nothing did they attend to the acquisition of the S-400.

The Turks of this class were not allowed to speak at all.

From the word in general to the Turks, they drank the second regimental set of S-400 SZRK ..

On July 5, 2019, it was officially announced that the transfer of the first group of components of the S-400 systems to the Turkish military was completed. The contract for the air defense complex, deployed by the Turkish army in the summer of the same year, involved the supply of two divisional kits.

Before the official opening of the Army-2020 forum, Rosoboronexport CEO Alexander Mikheev said that Russia and Turkey had signed a second contract for the supply of S-400s to Turkey. The exact amount of the contract has not yet been disclosed, however, experts suggest that another S-400 regimental set worth $ 2,5 billion may go to the other side of the Black Sea.

https://life.ru/p/S400-Growler-Turkey-Russia

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Lara Croft

From the word in general to the Turks, they drank the second regimental set of S-400 SZRK ..

Is this complex made in the USA and by a NATO member country?

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Quote: Lara Croft

From the word in general to the Turks, they drank the second regimental set of S-400 SZRK ..

Is this complex made in the USA and by a NATO member country?

And no one of this class, incl. the Empireists do not ...

[Bili]

Well, the Albanians have Serbia nearby, who are just waiting for the moment to take Kosovo.

[pytar]

Greece is in the rear, there are evil Albanians and Kosovars who absolutely do not want to work ...

Oh, yes! The Albanians "love" the Turks so much that the Stalinist Enver Hoxha is still sworn, he offered to help NATO Greece during the events of Cyprus! By the way, the Turks have a lot of things in the rear ... the Kurds alone are 20 million!

[no better place for]

First, with slavery, delirium and ignorance of the topic. Secondly, look at the percentage of professional soldiers in the army, thirdly there are Turks in the rear of the Ugres. All know-it-all

[nikolaki6890]

You know the Greeks so well .... I doubt

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Finches

The Turks will quickly bend them,

Yeah shchaz.
This is how it was, for example, a little over a hundred years ago.

First Balkan War - The Balkan Union (Serbia, Montenegro, Greece and Bulgaria) planned to completely deprive the Ottoman Empire of possessions in Europe, which he managed to do (only Constantinople and small territories around it remained for Turkey).

And even a naval battle took place at Lemnos

The battle ended in a clear victory for the Greek fleet, which was able to inflict much more damage on its enemy than it did itself. The parties suffered incomparable human losses: the Greeks - only one wounded, the Turks - more than 30 killed and 80 wounded (according to other sources - more than 80 killed and about 300 wounded). The Turks were never able to fulfill their task - to secure free access to the Aegean Sea. The battle at Lemnos showed them the impossibility of defeating the Greek fleet and lifting the blockade of the Dardanelles.

In general, I personally wish both parties every success.

[Keyser soze]

First Balkan War

There the Greeks had a role to play across the seas to resist the Turks. On land, we and the Serbs kicked them.
And they were especially attacked when they took Adrianople (Audrin), which was fortified by the Germans and stuffed with the latest weapons. And nothing - they took with a duck attack. 126 Bulgarian army and 000 Serbs.
Losses - we, 1986 and Serbs about 200 people. The Turks lost 7000 killed and (attention) 65 prisoners, 000 guns and other goods in bulk.

In general, they are such warriors ...

[Alevil]

In my opinion, this site had a number of good articles about the First Balkan. The Bulgarians showed themselves excellently in that war.

[Keyser soze]

In my opinion, this site had a number of good articles about the First Balkan. The Bulgarians showed themselves excellently there.

Ladies, Roman wrote and I helped him a little ... thanks for reading and I'm glad that I liked it
https://topwar.ru/156408-god-1913-j-adrianopol-slava-bolgarskoj-i-serbskoj-armij.html

[Alevil]

Yes, very interesting and informative

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Alevil

In my opinion, this site had a number of good articles about the First Balkan. The Bulgarians showed themselves excellently in that war.

Ladies, Roman wrote and I helped him a little ...

Such Bulgarians wrote ... "and I will defeat all the Ottomans ...."

[no better place for]

They also went far after, with the support of others from all sides. But then they were driven back through the entire Anatomy and thrown into the sea in Izmir

[Sanichsan]

Quote: Finches

Greeks are not wars, Greeks are philosophers and consumers of Metaxa ...

you know, at the beginning of the last century they said the same about the Germans ... a nation of philosophers and poets and then the broads and the first world war. followed by the second.

[Finches]

The Germans have always been wars, they have always been respected, even much earlier than the time of Frederick the Great ...

[Sanichsan]

Quote: Finches

Germans have always been wars they were always respected, even much earlier than the time of Frederick the Great ...

you probably confused with the Vikings, Swiss and Spaniards. German Landsknechts are not exactly respected, they are very appreciated... appreciated for the fact that while they are paid, they will do what they are ordered to. you need to dig, they will dig, the Spaniards or the Swiss will not dig, they are a type of war, not diggers. but as a combat unit, they were not particularly durable. Of course, they are not strangers who are almost ready to go over to the enemy's side, but like the Spaniards, they will not stand to the last.
Let me remind you that not long before the First World War and Germany did not exist. has not merged yet. then no one considered the Germans (Prusaks with Astrians) as a serious military force. the French, for example, seriously believed that they would be smashed quickly in a month because "who are they?" but how it happened ...
truth with Greece it is doubtful that this will happen. the mobilization resource is not the same ...

[Finches]

But they matured by the 18th century ... and the Spaniards, for example, were crushed! But I don’t want to argue and talk on this topic ... Turkey today surpasses the Greek army in its potential - whether someone likes it or not, but these are the facts ... The Greeks, without the support of Germany and France, are not worth anything today in the European arena - they have a little less debts than Ukraine, and besides olives they do not produce anything special, (I exaggerate) from military equipment, something they fiddled with "Leopards", but everything is not in their interests ...

[Sanichsan]

Quote: Finches

But they matured by the 18th century ... and the Spaniards, for example, were crushed! But I don't want to argue and discuss this topic ...

right. but not everyone noticed it. or rather, everyone did not even notice pride, you know .. for what then they paid ...

Quote: Finches

Turkey today surpasses the Greek army in its potential

fact! but a strong Turkey is not needed by anyone except Erdogan. It is not difficult for the Greeks to find allies, both direct in the form of France, and indirect ones like us. at the same time, Turkey has no allies ... except perhaps the Crimean Tatars, barmaley in Idlib and the government in Tripoli

[Finches]

Here it is difficult to disagree with you!

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Finches

for us, the very fact of squabbles between NATO countries is satisfactory!

Another tourist season is under the threat of disruption ... and the "Syrian Express", this squabble can place ... and the "bins" of the Motherland are waiting for new echelons to be sent to the SAR ...

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Finches

Greeks are not war

The Spartan looked down, and a bitter tear fell on his breastplate.

[Sergey39]

Macron is great! He strongly supports the aggravation of the situation. Probably wants to withdraw France from NATO on the sly.

[MstislavHrabr]

It would be nice for this conflict to help mature ... The British would have already managed ... And they would have received their benefits without fighting ... We, for example, would be great to place our air defense base in Cyprus (to protect peaceful Cypriots from the possible consequences of the conflict) ... At the same time, the English airfield will be under control ...

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Sergey39

Probably wants to withdraw France from NATO on the sly.

Let's not hope for it: he wants to make money on the sly for France ...

[Sergey39]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Quote: Sergey39

Probably wants to withdraw France from NATO on the sly.

Let's not hope for it: he wants to make money on the sly for France ...

It does not interfere. And the fact that NATO is bursting at the seams has long been known, and France and Germany will be the first to pop out if possible.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Sergey39

And the fact that NATO is bursting at the seams has long been known ...

Sorry for the skepticism - how do you know? I don't want to be in good health, it's just that these squabbles are a permanent state of Nata: the Turks are against the Greeks, the French are against everyone, here they have dragged the newly-made "democracies" by the ears and the old Nata does not want to give his portion of subsidies to the new Nata, but they creep .., nemchura trying to not destroy himself with the voice of European reason .. everything is like people. Where did the firewood come from?

[The eye of the crying]

Relations between Greece and Turkey have been worse. War did not happen, NATO did not disintegrate.

[Bagatur]

In NATO, only France Rafal ... Greece will buy 10 new ones and get 8 more from the French Air Force reserve.

[TermNachTer]

I hope that I will live to see that bright day when NATO member countries cling to each other's throats))))

[Lipchanin]

In Turkey, they say that France "unconstructively takes a position to support Athens."

Well, of course, only they all have to support

[KVU-NSVD]

It's time to strengthen our military forces. To do this, we will purchase 18 Rafale and 4 helicopters from France. We will also purchase four frigates for our Navy. We will increase our armed forces by 15 thousand people. This is an important program for the formation of a renewed national shield.

Nothing the Greeks dispersed .. And then everyone complained that there was nothing to pay the debts with. But the shelf is worth it. Come on, the Greeks, run into the Turks harder .. you look faster to shake NATO ..

[Reviews]

Brussels considers the aggravation between Greece and Turkey "a new challenge to North Atlantic unity, NATO unity"

Duc, nefiga was to be accepted into the ranks of all sorts of thugs, such as Turkey, just to do it against the USSR. Themselves let into the house someone who is not clear, and now they are surprised "Did he burn furniture with cigarette butts ?!"

[parusnik]

In Turkey, they say that France "unconstructively takes a position to support Athens."

Why, constructive ... Greece doesn't really aim at anything, unlike Turkey, and if it shares anything ..

[Coconut]

Well, if the Greeks are asked by the European Union for a billion to buy mammoth shit .. buy .... and what are their options?

[Gennady Fomkin]

French Defense Minister Florence Parley welcomed Greece's choice of French weapons. Still, who, if not the Minister of Defense, would be against Jaco having a croissant with butter in the morning

[Gennady Fomkin]

Greece's gross domestic product declined in the second quarter of 2020 by a record 15,2% compared to the same period in 2019, the Greek Statistical Office reported on September 3.

In the first quarter of 2020, the Greek economy contracted by 0,5% on an annualized basis. Thus, the country's economy officially fell into recession.

Household consumption fell by 11,3% compared to the first quarter of 2020, while gross capital formation fell by 4,5%.

At the same time, exports fell 32,1%, while imports fell only 16,7%.

In addition, government spending fell to 1,5% from 1,7% of GDP.

On a quarterly basis, the Greek economy contracted 14% in the second quarter compared to the previous quarter. It was the deepest quarterly decline in the country's GDP ever.

Does Greece have a GDP? Or is alms from the EU now called that? what will we take?

[Bagatur]

Greece's GDP is approximately 250 billion euros.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Does Greece have a GDP? Or is alms from the EU now called that? what will we take?

You won't believe it, but after the Germans forced them to use the cash registers, they got a vision of the situation ... , and WFP are looking for, trying ...
Let's call a spade a spade: begging from the EU - this is from Germany, which is slowly taking over Greece's hands.
What to take - you will probably have to ask the French. But during the crisis of '08, the Greeks managed to buy amerovskoy weapons for 4,5 lard and nvropa paid for all this with its subsidies ...

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Greece's gross domestic product declined in the second quarter of 2020 by a record 15,2% compared to the same period in 2019, the Greek Statistical Office reported on September 3.

In the first quarter of 2020, the Greek economy contracted by 0,5% on an annualized basis. Thus, the country's economy officially fell into recession.

Household consumption fell by 11,3% compared to the first quarter of 2020, while gross capital formation fell by 4,5%.

At the same time, exports fell 32,1%, while imports fell only 16,7%.

In addition, government spending fell to 1,5% from 1,7% of GDP.

On a quarterly basis, the Greek economy contracted 14% in the second quarter compared to the previous quarter. It was the deepest quarterly decline in the country's GDP ever.

Does Greece have a GDP? Or is alms from the EU now called that? what will we take?

It's a sin to laugh ... then a pandemic ...

[iouris]

Woland: "The Greeks have changed little, but they were very spoiled by the" gas issue "."
Perhaps Greece will purchase weapons at the expense of the FRG.

[Gennady Fomkin]

So Erdogan's party member Metin Kulunk, in order not to stand aside, decided to illustrate the aspirations of the Justice and Development Party (AKP) in his social networks. He distributed a map on the Internet, on which the borders of the Turkish Republic include Northern Greece and part of the Bulgarian lands. The politician did not confine himself to only one image and called for the creation of a “Great Turkey”, in which there was also a place for Cyprus, Armenia and the territories of Georgia, Iraq and Syria.

Athens could not pass by such a picture, because in his address, among other things, Kolunc, calling the Greeks "brothers", recalled the "good old days" in the Ottoman Empire.

[Gennady Fomkin]

GlavTurk has s-400! :) eh, I want to see them in action :)))

[Pavel57]

Rafali is France's payment for support. On business it was necessary to buy Eurofighters.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Pavel57

Rafali is France's payment for support. On business it was necessary to buy Eurofighters.

Do you think they are better?

[Pavel57]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Do you think they are better?

In terms of price and quality, I think it's better.

[Cyril G ...]

I am all in doubt from that and ask

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Pavel57

Quote: Cyril G ...

Do you think they are better?

In terms of price and quality, I think it's better.

So I think that they are only better for the price ...

[nks]

Typhoons are both more expensive and simply more modest in capabilities, not to mention the rest.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: iouris

Woland: "The Greeks have changed little, but they were very spoiled by the" gas issue "."
Perhaps Greece will purchase weapons at the expense of the FRG.

Those who give will have to give back, I have not heard something about their cancellation, at least once!

[Gennady Fomkin]

Greece entered as an equal member of the union and had a developed industry, transport, and was financially self-sufficient. While in the EU, Greece has come a "glorious" way from one of the most developed countries in Europe to a golly rogue, imprisoned in debt for life. 

[nikolaki6890]

Damn, the economy is bursting at the seams, unemployment is off scale for a million, and we, SUDDENLY, found money to buy planes, frigates, and even increase the army ... and we, here, RUB that, supposedly, they will help us (lend) Arab money Emirates and France, there, something will give us ... how, everything is simple

[Lara Croft]

Quote: nikolaki6890

... and we, here, RUB that, allegedly, the Arab Emirates and France will help us (lend) money, there, that will give us something ... how, everything is simple

You shouldn't trust ESu, there are "good" and "honest" "people" sitting there, you don't believe, ask the ancient ukrov ... they will confirm you ...

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: bagatura

Greece's GDP is approximately 250 billion euros.

Greece's GDP growth rate reached 5-6%, unemployment was about 8-10%. Moreover, since the mid-2000s. In Greece, tax collection has worsened, and the European Commission has also revealed the facts of falsification of the country's official financial statistics. $0.97976
Government debt today

[demiurg]

But I am against the Greek-Turkish war ..
9 out of 10 that the outcome would be something like this:
The Turks will roll the Greeks like a steel ingot on slabbing, the Turks are now strong compared to the sludge in service with the Greek Armed Forces. But NATO will fit in for the Greeks. 100% will fit. For what? Correctly Andrey wrote from Chelyabinsk, because of the straits. They will wrest the Bosphorus from the Turks, or simply change the rules for the passage of ships. And the entire Black Sea Fleet will be locked up.
We will have to either fit in for the Turks or for NATO, in order to preserve the rules of passage through the straits. In general, I am the daughter of the Sultan and the Evzon, everything is not so simple here.

[Gennady Fomkin]

$ 4 499 173 798
Public debt this year

[APASUS]

I think now there will be a division among NATO members, who is for Turkey and who is for Greece. But the beginning of the conflict will depend on the United States, how they decide to dispose of the situation.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: APASUS

I think now there will be a division among NATO members, who is for Turkey and who is for Greece.

It has already happened on VO Whose will you be?

[APASUS]

Quote: Lara Croft

On VO it has already happened. Whose are you?

I am one of the undecided. With the Turks, perhaps we are not on the way, and the Greeks too often want to sit on two chairs!

[Revolver]

Quote: APASUS

the beginning of the conflict will depend on the United States, how they decide to dispose of the current situation.

Trump is not up to now, as are the crap in Congress. But after the elections this is a question. Trump has a grudge against Islamists in general and Erdogan in particular, so he is more likely to support the Greeks. And if Biden wins, then recently Muslims have been included in the politically correct list (along with racial and sexual minorities) that liberals like to support.

[uranium]

The Turkish army has combat experience fighting in Syria, Iraq and Libya and with the PKK to boot. The Greeks have little chance, and the fact that Macron imagines himself Napoleon will turn him sideways. Turks in North Africa will soon open a base.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: uran

have combat experience fighting

The experience of punitive expeditions or carriage wars is extremely specific. And on the Air Force, the Turks are leaking.

[uranium]

Experience is experience. Having drone UAVs, the role of the Air Force fades into the background.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: uran

Having drone UAVs

In the right war, the price of such UAVs is zero. Meat. However, there will be a profit - the air defense will spend expensive missiles on them.

Let me remind you Recent experience.
In Syria, the Turks have lost 3 Bayraktar and 2 Anki. In Syria, it was like this. The Syrians lost the habit of looking at the sky for which they were punished - though later they pulled up the Buk air defense system and the success of the Turks immediately ended
In Libya, the Turks and others like them have lost at least 21-22 Bayraktar over the past year. Roughly a fifth of the composition owned. Despite the fact that Haftar's air defense was represented by a dozen Pantsyrs and ZU-23.
see here. https://aviation-safety.net Take turns choosing Libya and Syria ..

At the same time, in Syria, one Pantsyr (by the Jews) was disabled for the entire time and two were damaged by the Turks.
In Libya, 2 Armor were reliably captured, while one was incapacitated and burned out. All. Three more are likely damaged, but there is no confirmation to this day.

[uranium]

Turkey can recover the losses of UAVs in a short time, which cannot be said about the air defense systems of Libya or Syria. With the active phase of hostilities, losses are natural, but the main thing is the result and Turkey, whether we like it or not, has definitely achieved its goal.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: uran

UAV losses Turkey can recover in a short time

Do you know how many Turks can produce UAVs per year?

Quote: uran

Turkey, whether we like it or not, has definitely achieved its goal.

She definitely didn't achieve the goals she wanted.

Quote: uran

which cannot be said about the air defense systems of Libya or Syria.

Well, how would we put the old Buki, Wasp and S-300 into reserve. Why not help kind people?

[uranium]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Do you know how many Turks can produce UAVs per year?

I think it will be able to replace the losses quickly enough

[/ Quote]

Quote: Cyril G ...

She definitely didn't achieve the goals she wanted.

If you think so, then let it be yours)))
[quote = Cyril G ...] Well, how would we put the old Buki, Wasps and S-300 into reserve. Why not help kind people?

it's like the saying "I'll frostbite my ears to harm my mother" outdated weapons can play a disservice as they will be a good hindrance for high-tech UAVs.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: uran

a disservice as they will be a good mix for high-tech UAVs.

Will not. Do you understand the high-tech Bayraktar, even for old and unmodernized Buks and Wasps, just meat ... You basically don’t want to understand that such a device is a purely police type, well, or an anti-partisan one?

I think it will be able to replace the losses quickly enough

Well, that is, you don't know. Or maybe in a year, or in three years. If it took them 6 years to release hundreds of devices.

[uranium]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Well, that is, you don't know. Or maybe in a year, or in three years. If it took them 6 years to release hundreds of devices.

For 6 years they have developed and successfully conducted tests, or do you think that in a year you can create all this from 0?)))

Quote: Cyril G ...

Such a device is a purely police type, well, or an anti-partisan one?

Perhaps you are right, but I think that these "police" UAVs will still show themselves in real combat.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: uran

these "police" UAVs will still show themselves in real combat.

At an approximately equal level, the enemy will not be shown from the word at all. In my opinion, UAVs for troops need a small type of something like Aileron-3. Scouts first of all. And the Male class vehicles are either purely anti-guerrilla apparatus, or vice versa, for solving terror tasks. To solve the tasks of an attack aircraft, a drone must also have the appropriate flight characteristics.

For 6 years they have developed and successfully tested

So what? Nothing, the aircraft was made according to flight characteristics corresponding to the first half of the 30s of the 20th century. Affigate what an achievement.

[no better place for]

Why do you only consider the shells? They did not hit on equipment and manpower?

[Cyril G ...]

And why should I count the rest if we are talking about the opposition was Turkish UAVs and the extremely frail air defense of Haftar. Which in fact did not exist. So, separate combat vehicles and ZU-23 on Toyota with specially trained anti-aircraft gunners, yes ..

[Oquzyurd]

The Turks have already helped to make a coup in Mali, expelled the pro-French government. Yesterday, Foreign Minister Cavusoglu was there as the first foreign statesman after the coup. The Turks not only respond to Frenchmen at sea, they also break the imperialist pincers of the French "former" colonies.

[APASUS]

Quote: uran

The Turkish army has combat experience fighting in Syria, Iraq and Libya and with the PKK to boot.

You are confusing the war with the barmaley in carts, against the regulatory army. Yes, and this war will most likely take place at sea

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: demiurg

We will have to either fit in for the Turks or for NATO, in order to preserve the rules of passage through the straits. In general, I am the daughter of the Sultan and the Evzon, everything is not so simple here.

We will have to either fit in for the Turks or for NATO, in order to preserve the rules of passage through the straits. In general, I am the daughter of the Sultan and the Evzon, everything is not so simple here. Don’t ... don’t have to, we will supply them with whatever the soul doesn’t want Ataturk at one time I.O. Vissarionich even sent T-26 tanks

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: demiurg

sludge in service with the Armed Forces of Greece.

The Turks with their F-16 block 30/40/50 will merge air supremacy with the Greeks. The Greeks have 52 blocks of 80-90 pieces

[Baron pardus]

The Greeks also have Mirages 2000-5, which is also far from a defenseless machine. And given that the Greeks, possessing both Mirages and F16, train against each other, I do not think that the Turkish F16 will do much against the Mirages. If the Greeks win air superiority - Turkey Khan. If not, the Khan of Greece. In any case, the EU and the UN will be more concerned about this fight and will not crap neither the United States nor Russia.

[Cyril G ...]

22 Mirage and 156 F-16 Greeks against 260 F-16 Turks.
At the same time, the Greeks have about 80 F-16s in block 52, the Turks have the freshest block 50.

[Gennady Fomkin]

I stake on the Turks, for the Greeks have long ceased to be soldiers.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

I stake on the Turks, for the Greeks have long ceased to be soldiers.

Me too ... Yes, and the Russian Federation has always easily understood violent ...

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Quote: uran

have combat experience fighting

The experience of punitive expeditions or carriage wars is extremely specific. And on the Air Force, the Turks are leaking.

The army of the Turkish Republic is larger than the army of Germany and France combined, then it is better for the Greeks not to take their pussies out of their pants, people will laugh.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Army of the Turkish Republic

It never stopped the Turks from raking off ...

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: APASUS

I think now there will be a division among NATO members, who is for Turkey and who is for Greece. But the beginning of the conflict will depend on the United States, how they decide to dispose of the situation.

Until the AUG swims, the Greeks will be gone

[Lara Croft]

French Defense Minister Florence Parley welcomed Greece's choice of French weapons.

Germany carries the "strap" of financing the Greek economy, and French weapons are being purchased, Mrs. Merkel may be angry with all this ...

[Gennady Fomkin]

[media = http: // https: //youtu.be/bjU02Xqb_l4? t = 14]

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Lara Croft

French Defense Minister Florence Parley welcomed Greece's choice of French weapons.

Germany carries the "strap" of financing the Greek economy, and French weapons are being purchased, Mrs. Merkel may be angry with all this ...

It is not enough for a German burgher to welcome and warm up the next hicks

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Army of the Turkish Republic

It never stopped the Turks from raking off ...

Where?

[Gennady Fomkin]

If Greece expands its maritime borders in the Aegean Sea, it will cause war, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said on August 29.

The announcement came a day after EU member states decided to impose sanctions on Turkey if Ankara does not withdraw its navies from the Eastern Mediterranean. Sultan Erdogan, have already tried to make a "ax head off". He won. After that, he began to grapple with the EU and the United States. The Sultan was offended. And who would not be offended when they want to make you a "head ax" ... So for the general development, there were "cleansings" on the trenches of the Stalinists. But you probably didn't notice. After all, all the "noble democrats" stuck their tongues in the ass. Well, so that Erdogan does not finally send them ... Turkey at this stage has the most powerful and combat-ready army of all EU countries. The only thing that Turkey does not have is nuclear weapons. 

In addition, Turkey conducted joint exercises with the US Navy, which were joined by Italian frigates. Germany is home to one of the largest Turkish diasporas, about 3.5 million, they will definitely not get involved in this mess. 

[Gennady Fomkin]

1. Not formally, but really. None of the EU countries have recently fought, and at the very first large losses (as the events in Mali, where Operation Barkhan is being carried out by the French Foreign Legion), their troops will scatter like rats from a sinking ship.

4. Germany without Germans will be protected by the Turkish diaspora. 

5. The EU is not a dollar, this organism has no signs of vitality. It was created for purely political purposes - expansion to the east, and will not withstand the collapse of the economy.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Army of the Turkish Republic

It never stopped the Turks from raking off ...

sir, all your reasoning would make sense if Vova did not loom behind the Turks and the economic war differs from the real one in Europe, except for censures on the scales and there is nothing to throw the Greeks will be left alone with the Turks, and after the crafty Greeks made our kazoo by supporting the fanar in his game of creating a new papism, Vova will simply turn his back on them

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Quote: Oquzyurd

Look in the mirror carefully.

Look. The Turks are doing what they absolutely do not need, solely because of their leader's furrying. A large country with a huge population, with a decent level of economic and general development. Develop calmly and get rich. What Turkey is doing today is a pointless show that adds nothing to either security or the economy.

Yes, resources are somehow not very good

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Keyser Soze

First Balkan War

There the Greeks had a role to play across the seas to resist the Turks. On land, we and the Serbs kicked them.
And they were especially attacked when they took Adrianople (Audrin), which was fortified by the Germans and stuffed with the latest weapons. And nothing - they took with a duck attack. 126 Bulgarian army and 000 Serbs.
Losses - we, 1986 and Serbs about 200 people. The Turks lost 7000 killed and (attention) 65 prisoners, 000 guns and other goods in bulk.

In general, they are such warriors ...

Let’s also remember how the Bulgarians after the First World War ripped off in full How many years did the Entente smack you

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Alevil

In my opinion, this site had a number of good articles about the First Balkan. The Bulgarians showed themselves excellently in that war.

Well, all these Bulgarian Batenbergs, Ferdinands, and other Saksoburgotskie wanted to spit on the interests of Bulgaria. But the ambition was - the Poles would be envious.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

But the ambition was - the Poles would be envious.

No one was equal to the Poles in terms of ambition. From the word in general.

[Moskovit]

No matter what they say, no matter what Greece gets up, no matter what political squiggles, the heart of a Russian person will always be on the side of the Greeks than the Turks. They are Orthodox, kind, lazy, cheerful, open-minded, that is, our people.
But we must understand that the Greek army is not the most beautiful sight.

According to Law 3421/2005, all Greek male citizens between the ages of 18 and 45 are subject to conscription and service in the Greek Armed Forces.

Forty-five, Karl, forty-five! There is a whole system of deferrals, pay-offs and other schemes. Read what the Russian Greeks write about the service and it will become clear to you that you cannot win the war with Turkey with such an army of Greece. I personally observed the movement of soldiers in Greece. Antediluvian Mercedes trucks. Unhappy soldiers in them ...
Be that as it may, the Turks have combat experience in Syria, Iraq and Libya. The Greeks alone cannot cope, which, incidentally, was observed in all wars.

[Baron pardus]

It would be very nice for NATO to fight with themselves. 1. In the US, we will not have to pay for these scammers and liars who sign agreements but do not comply and we are the US taxpayers who pay. 2. At the borders of Russia, tension will subside. If Greece quarrels with Turkey, then their neighbors will have to pacify them, and if so, we and Russia will shit less. At the same time, the strengthening of Turkey will make the "brothers of the Slavs" and Poles, Serbs, Bulgarians and Czechs tense. Let them think whether the USA and their "NATO partners" will protect them or not, let their heads ache and a certain part of the anatomy will play. Everyone wins. It’s a pity for the Greeks. The Turks will leave them a wet place and say that it was so. In general, the collapse of NATO, the EU and the UN is the best thing that can happen for our civilization.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Oquzyurd

Come on, lost the UAV, let's say.

Yes, a fact. Moreover, the enemy had no air defense. From the word in general. And now the enemy not only has air defense, but also the air force is quite adequate.
Now the Greeks have 80 F-16 block 52 of 156 and even more modern than Turkish. The Turks have nothing fresher than block 50. And by the way, how many MALE class UAVs do the Turks manage per year?

[Pavel57]

Quote: Lara Croft

So I think that they are only better for the price ...

Absolutely comparable aircraft: in speed, range, overload, armament.

[CI7APTAK]

Doni's plan works
Europe begins to enlarge the powder keg
ihi-ihi-ihihi

[Gennady Fomkin]

I recall a scene from "Turkish justice": when a convict was taken through the streets in a large vat of shit and periodically waved a scimitar over him, forcing him to dive into this shit. I wonder how the Greeks taste like that? . 

[Connor MacLeod]

In short, we kill the Turks! The coalition is based on Israel, Greece, France, Russia. The goal is to knock the Turks out of Northern Syria, Northern Cyprus, Western Libya ... and from Constantinople at the same time. The US will not be trampled against such a coalition, not to mention the fact that US-Turkish relations are currently at their lowest point.

First of all, the Turkish fleet is destroyed - the French, Greeks and Israelis are crushing the Turks in the Mediterranean, we are in the Black Sea. This is followed by massive bombing by Turkish forces in Syria, Libya, northern Cyprus and eastern Thrace. The operation ends with the introduction of troops.

[tolmachiev51]

"Friendship is friendship, and tobacco apart" !!! The price of all alliances is beautiful when it does not concern national interests.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: SanichSan

of course not roaming people who are almost ready to go over to the enemy's side,

In fact, it was the German Landsknechts who were bought out at the time of the battle.

[Selevc]

The modern and old problems of Greece, in my opinion, lie in the Greek nation itself ... The name Greeks or buckwheat is a contemptuous nickname given to the Greeks by the ancient Romans. The Greeks themselves called themselves proud Hellenes and their country Hellas !!! For centuries, these proud Hellenes fought among themselves and killed each other on their plots of fertile land ... And in fact, therefore, the grandiose era of Athenian democracy and the era of Great Alexander ended in complete dust and centuries of serving various conquerors - from Romans to Turks ...

The Romans, by the way, knew what they were talking about - they called the Greeks corrupt, idle, talkative people - versed in the sciences and arts, but having little understanding of discipline, honor and loyalty to the homeland ... So the Greeks since ancient times more willingly than all other peoples of the Mediterranean region went to the hired service - and often to their yesterday's enemies. For example, the famous commander Themistocles frankly sold himself to the Persians for the second half of his life and served for them and rose to high positions ...

I think that over 2000 years of Greek history from ancient times to the present, little has changed in the Greek nation itself - except that they are diluted strongly with Turkish and other Asian blood - otherwise everything is the same, but only on a different round of history ...

[G. Petrovich]

[/ quote] The name Greeks or buckwheat is a contemptuous nickname given to the Greeks by the ancient Romans [quote]

The name Greek is even earlier than Hellene. The Greek (Γραίκος) is the hero of ancient Greek myths, πο the progenitor of the Greeks to Hesiod, the son of Zeus and Pandora, the daughter of Deucalion and Pyrrha. Aristotle, Apollodorus of Athens, Paros Chronicle and others write that, "first the Greeks then the Hellenes" ("πρώτον μεν Γραικοί νυν δε Έλληνες"). Homer in the Iliad had one ship of the Achaeans from the city of Gray (Γραία), and the inhabitants of this city were called Greeks (γραικοί). Ellin (Έλλην) is also a hero of Greek mythology, the son of Deucalion and Pyrrha, the very ones who were saved from the Flood. The Greeks call themselves Hellenes (έλλην), and the country Hellas (Έλλαδα). The Romans used the original name of the Greeks. And those Greeks whom they did not respect were called contemptuously Greeks (Graeculus, Γραικύλος Greek).
As for Turkish blood among the Greeks, here it is just the opposite. The Turks as conquerors could marry a Greek, Russian, Bulgarian, Serbian, etc. and thus convert them to Islam. But a Turkish woman was forbidden to marry a non-believer. Islam forbade. Then many Orthodox inhabitants of the Ottoman Empire converted to Islam in order to avoid violence or to have equal rights with Muslims. So a Greek either married an Orthodox Christian and remained Greek, or converted to Islam and became a Turk.