Military Review

Jan Sobieski. Khotinsky Lion and the savior of Vienna

142
Jan Sobieski. Khotinsky Lion and the savior of Vienna

Jerzy Semiginovsky-Eleuther. Jan Sobieski near Vienna


This Polish king is known to us mainly from the winged saying of Nicholas I:
“The most stupid of the Polish kings was Jan Sobieski, and the most stupid of the Russian emperors was me. Sobieski - because I saved Austria in 1683, and I - because I saved it in 1848 ”.



Jan Sobieski and Nikolai I. Two pair of boots? Or not?

This historical anecdote (in the original sense of the word: "unpublished, unprintable") is especially piquant due to the fact that this phrase was voiced in a conversation between the Russian emperor and his adjutant general, Count Adam Rzhevussky.


A. Rzhevussky

The letter "U" in the surname of the count was clearly not superfluous, saving us from completely indecent associations, and Nicholas I, possibly from participating in the obscene adventures of the notorious lieutenant.

But King Jan Sobieski was not a fool, moreover, in history he entered both as the last great monarch of the Commonwealth, and as the most educated of them.

Let's talk a little about it.

Youth of a hero


Jan Sobieski was born in the Russian province of the Commonwealth on August 17, 1629. The place of his birth (Olesko castle) is currently located on the territory of the Lviv region of modern Ukraine.


Olesky castle

Jan Sobieski, of course, belonged to the number of purebred Polish gentry, who owned the land of the former Galicia-Volyn principality back in 1340, captured by King Casimir III the Great.


Monument to Jan Sobieski in Gdansk, previously stood in Lviv

The relatives of the future king on the father's side, as they say, did not have enough stars from the sky, but her mother, Sofia Teofila, was the granddaughter of Stanislav Zholkevsky, who, by the way, was also born near Lviv. During the Time of Troubles, he took an active part in hostilities on the territory of Russia and in 1610 occupied the Moscow Kremlin. He also captured the unlucky Tsar Vasily Shuisky. By that time, Zholkevsky had already died in the battle with the Turks near Tsetsory (1620, a little about these events was described in the article "Cossacks: on land and at sea"). Nevertheless, the influence of the relatives of Sophia Theophila still retained. Thanks to them, the father of our hero, Jakub, was appointed a kastelian in Krakow, and his sons received an excellent education. Jan, for example, graduated from the Novodvorsk Academy and the Krakow Jagiellonian University, which allows him to be considered the most educated king of Poland.

In 1646, after the death of his father, Jan inherited the title of Kastelian of Krakow - and immediately, together with his brother Marek, set off on a journey across Europe that lasted two whole years. During this time, he even managed to serve in the French army, taking part in the Thirty Years War.

In 1648, the brothers returned to Poland, and here they had to fight against Bohdan Khmelnytsky and the Crimean Tatars allied to him. During one of the battles with the Tatars in 1649, Marek Sobieski was captured. His further fate is unknown. Some believe that he was sold in one of the slave markets and ended his life as a galley slave. However, given the origin and social status of this prisoner, it was more profitable for the Tatars to enter into negotiations with his relatives and take a ransom - a common and widespread practice, there was no damage to the honor of the ransomed person or his family. Moreover, Yang, according to his contemporaries, made attempts to find and ransom his brother. So, perhaps, Marek quickly died in captivity from the effects of injury or some kind of illness.

Jan Sobieski not only fought then, but also engaged in diplomatic work, being part of the Polish embassy sent to Crimea to try to break the alliance of the Tatars with the Cossacks.

A new war began in 1655: it was the famous "Flood" - the invasion of Swedish troops, which put the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in a completely desperate situation. At a certain stage, the Swedish king Charles X Gustav even considered the possibility of dividing Polish lands between Sweden, Brandenburg, Transylvania and the Cherkasy (Cossacks).

For themselves, the Swedes wanted the Baltic coast of Poland and Lithuania. On the other hand, they wanted the Polish king Jan II Kazimierz Waza to renounce his rights to the Swedish throne forever.

Some gentry, headed by the Lithuanian hetman Janos Radziwill, sided with the Swedes. But the bulk of the Poles still sided with the king.

Since the relatives of Jan Sobieski turned out to be Radziwill's allies, at the first stage of this war he also fought on the side of the Swedes and even received the title of the great crown cornet. However, after the fall of Warsaw and Krakow, he went to the king and fought on his side until the conclusion of the Peace of Oliwa in 1660. And then the war with Russia, going on since 1654, continued. It ended in 1667 with the conclusion of the famous Andrusov armistice: Russia returned Smolensk, Chernigov voivodeship, Starodubsky povet, Seversky land and achieved recognition of the reunification of the Left-Bank Ukraine with Russia.

Even before the end of this war, in 1665, Jan Sobieski married a wealthy and influential young widow of the voivode of Krakow and Sandomierz, a Frenchwoman Maria Casimira Louise de Grange d'Arquien.

She came to Poland at the age of 5 in the retinue of Marie-Louise de Gonzaga of Neverskaya. The story is mysterious, there were even rumors that this girl was the illegitimate daughter of the future queen of Poland. At the time of her second marriage, she was 24 years old, and in Poland she was known as Marysenka Zamoyska. This influential (she had connections even at the French court) and clever intriguer gave birth to Jan 14 children (four survived) and greatly contributed not only to the further promotion of her husband in the service, but also to his election as king of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. But she also won universal hatred by exorbitant spending of funds, without hesitation, taken from the state treasury.


Queen Maria Casimira. Portrait of an unknown artist, 1670s

Thanks to her efforts, Jan Sobieski first received the title of crown hetman, and then (in 1668) - the great crown hetman.

That year, after the death of his wife, King Jan Casimir abdicated the throne. To grieve for her, he went to the most "suitable" city for this - the brilliant and dissolute Paris of Louis XIV. Marysenka spent a lot of money trying to make her husband the new king (and become the queen herself), but then Mikhail Vishnevetsky was elected.

Khotinsky Lev


Very soon Jan Sobieski had to prove that he was quite worthy of the post of commander-in-chief of the Polish army.

In 1672, the Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire, Hussein Pasha, moved an army to Poland, which, in addition to Turkish troops, included the Tatar cavalry and Cossack detachments of Hetman Petro Doroshenko. Kamenets-Podolsky soon fell. The news of the capture of this fortress coincided with the death of the former king Jan Casimir, and in Poland it is traditionally believed that the abdicated monarch died of grief. The new king Mikhail Vishnevetsky, having gathered all the forces available in Poland and Lithuania, moved to Khotin, but suddenly died on the eve of the decisive battle. It happened on November 10, 1673, and his death made the most unfavorable impression on the army. But the great crown hetman Jan Sobieski reassured everyone, literally declaring that "the king ascended to heaven in order to offer prayers to God for the overcoming of the wicked Turks."

The statement, frankly, was rather illogical (Polish kings did not have a tradition of dying on the eve of a decisive battle in order to personally turn to God in heaven) and cynical, but Sobieski, apparently, knew his subordinates well: panicky talk about "unfavorable signs of fate" and the reluctance of heaven, the victory of the Poles ceased, the control of the army and its combat effectiveness were preserved.

We often hear about the overwhelming advantage of the Turks, but modern historians consider the forces of the sides to be approximately equal, which, of course, does not negate the significance of the victory of Sobieski's army.

By his order, the Polish horsemen and the Cossacks who remained loyal until the morning continuously attacked and harassed the Turks, keeping them in constant tension, while the main forces, which were to go on the offensive in the morning, were resting. This technique worked: the Turks could not properly equip their positions.

This Khotyn battle (the second in a row in Polish history) is notable for the first use of military missiles by the Polish engineer Kazimir Semyonovich, which had an additional moral impact on the enemy (the psychological impact was probably all limited).

According to eyewitnesses, on November 11, simultaneously with the salvo of Polish artillery pieces, bright fiery arrows roared towards the Turkish fortifications. The infantry and dismounted dragoons created passages in the Ottoman fortifications for the cavalry to attack. This was followed by a ramming strike by the famous Polish hussars, led by Hetman Yablonovsky.


The retreat of the enemy soon turned to flight, moreover, a bridge across the Dniester collapsed under the Turks. As a result, from the entire Turkish army (about 35 thousand people), only 4 to 5 thousand returned.

120 artillery pieces were also left. The Khotin fortress surrendered without a fight on November 13. The losses of the Poles were, according to various estimates, from 2 to 4 thousand people. And Jan Sobieski, nicknamed the Khotyn Lion in Europe, was elected the new king of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth on May 21, 1674.

Jan Sobieski on the throne of the Commonwealth



Considered the most reliable portrait of Jan Sobieski, painted between 1673 and 1677, author unknown

The victory at Khotin turned out to be local and did not affect the further course of events, for Poland this war with Turkey ended in defeat, the loss of Podolia and the consent to a Turkish protectorate over the Right-Bank Ukraine.

The state of the Commonwealth then could hardly be called brilliant. Sobieski tried to strengthen and make the monarchy more powerful, which caused discontent among the gentry. The increase in taxes and the increasing oppression of the Orthodox population led to an increase in social tension. The Queen's unbridled spending caused widespread murmur. But Poland's economy was slowly recovering.

Jan Sobieski's finest hour


In 1683, the war between Austria and the Ottoman Empire began.

It may seem strange, but the allies of the Turks were the Hungarian Protestants, led by Imre Tököli, to whom even the power of relatively tolerant Muslims seemed to be a lesser evil than the constant persecution of Catholics.


Imre Tököli

The Ottomans even recognized Tököli as the king of Upper Hungary (now this territory belongs to Hungary and Slovakia).

Meanwhile, the Rzeczpospolita in the same year signed an agreement with the Austrians, according to which the parties assumed the obligation of immediate assistance to neighbors in the event of a threat to the capitals. And in July, the troops of the Ottoman Grand Vizier Kara Mustafa laid siege to Vienna.


Sometimes they write that 200 thousand Turks approached Vienna, but this is the size of the entire Ottoman army, which stretched across the vast territory of Austria, Hungary and Slovakia. Emperor Leopold I, not hoping for success, left his capital and went to Linz (up to 80 thousand refugees followed him). A 16-strong garrison was left in Vienna, and a small army of Charles of Lorraine was stationed north of the city.


Charles V of Lorraine

It was clear to everyone that Vienna was actually deciding the fate of Europe, and Pope Innocent XI called on Christian monarchs to help Austria. However, the great states remained deaf to this call.

Kara Mustafa did not rush his troops to storm the well-fortified city, taking it into a siege that lasted two months. Jan Sobieski at this time was gathering his army, which finally set out on the road and on September 3 united with the Austrian troops and parts of the neighboring German principalities. In total, about 70 thousand people gathered under the command of Sobieski. Kara Mustafa had 80 thousand people near Vienna, of which 60 thousand entered the battle.

The decisive battle began in the early morning of September 12. Sobieski placed his troops on the right, the allied Germans were advancing in the center, and the Austrians on the left. The decisive blow was the blow of the Polish cavalry - 20 thousand famous winged hussars, led by Sobieski himself.


Jan Matejko. "Jan Sobieski near Vienna"

The Turks lost 15 thousand people, leaving the camp with all the property and all the artillery. The allies lost only 3 and a half thousand people.

Kara Mustafa fled, leaving even the banner of the Prophet Muhammad, and was executed (strangled with a silk cord) in Belgrade.


Execution of Kara Mustafa in Belgrade

Jan Sobieski sent the trophy banner of the Prophet Muhammad to the Vatican, writing to the Pope:

"We came, we saw, God won."


Jan Sobieski. Monument in Lazienki, dedicated to the Vienna victory in 1683, erected by order of the last king of Poland Stanislaw August Poniatowski in 1788

Returning to Vienna, Emperor Leopold behaved unworthily, forbidding the inhabitants of the capital to arrange a triumphal meeting with their savior. There were no cannon fires, no flowers, no cheers. Disciplined crowns, lined up along the streets, silently held out their hands to the Polish soldiers entering the city.

The last years of the life of Jan Sobieski


And again, this victory did not become decisive - the war lasted another 15 years. In 1691, during a military campaign in Moldavia, Sobieski received 6 wounds and could no longer take part in hostilities. This king did not live to see the end of this war: it ended only three years after his death. According to the terms of the Karlovytsky Peace Treaty of 1699, Austria received Hungary and Transylvania, Poland - returned the Right-Bank Ukraine.

But Jan Sobieski managed to conclude Eternal Peace with Russia (1686). Poland forever abandoned the Left-Bank Ukraine, Kiev, Chernigov and Smolensk lands.

The last 5 years of Jan Sobieski's life were sad. He was tormented by pain from old wounds, he suffered from the abuses of his willful wife, condemned by all, and loud quarrels and quarrels of his sons thirsting for power.

On June 17, 1696, Jan III Sobieski died in Wilanow Palace and was buried in the Wawel Cathedral in Krakow.

The fate of the Jan Sobieski family



H. Gascar. Jan Sobieski with his family, 1693

Despite the presence of four children, Sobieski's lineage in the male line was interrupted.

Three girls were born in the family of the eldest son, Jakub Ludwig.

The middle son, Alexander, after an unsuccessful attempt to stand as a candidate for the election of the king, went to the monastery.

The youngest son Konstantin turned out to be childless.

Daughter Teresa Marysenka, married to a Bavarian elector, became the mother of the Holy Roman Emperor Charles VII, but this grandson of Sobieski was considered the offspring of another dynasty.

The Polish astronomer Jan Hevelius tried to immortalize the memory of Jan Sobieski, who in 1690 named the constellation "Sobieski's Shield" in his honor. The name did not catch on: now it is called simply "Shield".

Was Nicholas I right?


Now let's return to the aphorism of Nicholas I quoted at the beginning of the article. Let's remind him:

“The most stupid of the Polish kings was Jan Sobieski, and the most stupid of the Russian emperors was me. Sobieski - because I saved Austria in 1683, and I - because I saved it in 1848 ”.

It is easy to see that in the XVII-XVIII centuries. and even at the beginning of the 1848th century, the existence of a united and strong Austria, an allied Russia in the wars with Turkey and Napoleon, was beneficial to our country. So it is impossible to call Jan Sobieski, who saved Vienna, a fool, even if one proceeds solely from Russian interests, closing his eyes to other European states. But after the end of the Napoleonic wars and the transformation of Turkey into the “sick man of Europe”, we see a clear anti-Russian evolution of Austrian foreign policy. Very quickly Austria became one of the main geopolitical adversaries of Russia, and this confrontation eventually ended with the fall and disintegration of both empires. The disinterested salvation of the Austrian Empire in XNUMX did not help either. Interference in the internal affairs of Austria and the suppression of the Hungarian national uprising with the help of Russian troops did not give Russia anything except the dubious title of "Gendarme of Europe" and the armed neutrality of "grateful" Austria during the Crimean War. After that, it was Austria, and then Austria-Hungary, that turned out to be the main enemy of Russia in the Balkans. It was the aggressive policy of this state that caused the outbreak of World War I, which ended in a real catastrophe for the Russian Empire. So, calling himself in the second part of his aphorism the most stupid Russian emperor, Nicholas I, alas, was largely right. The first part of his joke was graceful, the second bitter.
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 August 2020 06: 10 New
    +8
    Thank you Valery, I liked it!
    Regards, Vlad!
    1. rich
      rich 31 August 2020 07: 04 New
      +6
      I join Vlad.
      Thank you Valery. Didn't know much
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 31 August 2020 07: 56 New
      -7
      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Thank you Valery, I liked it!
      Regards, Vlad!

      Opensource projects Shpakovsky thought, given the topic, but no. However, the style is stronger and there are no comments. I just want to open a discussion: Polish hussar - angel of death, hussar? request
      This was followed by a ramming strike of the famous Polish hussars,

      These are cuirassiers. Breastplate, spear. The hussars had neither one nor the other. It turns out a substitution of concepts. And the arrogant Poles screamed at all corners of the invincible Polish hussars, who "always" defeated the same hussars and other horsemen. repeat
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 August 2020 12: 23 New
        +6
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        I just want to open a discussion: Polish hussar - angel of death, hussar? request
        This was followed by a ramming strike of the famous Polish hussars,

        These are cuirassiers. Breastplate, spear. The hussars had neither one nor the other. It turns out a substitution of concepts. And the arrogant Poles screamed at all corners of the invincible Polish hussars, who "always" defeated the same hussars and other horsemen. repeat

        Are you interested in historiography of the question? In short, both cuirassiers and Polish hussars appear on the battlefields at the same time period. However, like our local cavalry. Both types of mounted troops had a single basis (chivalry), but imitated different prototypes. Polish Hussars - Rethinking tracing paper of Hungarian heavy hussars. Cuirassiers are essentially lightweight knightly cavalry.
        By the way, both had cuirasses, but this first part was the main part of the three-four knight's armor.
        Refusing to hussars in spears (lances), focusing on the hussars of the era of Napoleon's wars, I think it would be unreasonable. Since our domestic ones on the eve of 1812 had pikemen in the first rank.
        So much is debatable.
        And finally, the Polish hussars of the 16-17th centuries were much closer in organization to our local cavalry. But sad as it is, during the 16-17 centuries, in most cases, in direct clashes with the cavalry of other countries, they proved their effectiveness! Although they were also beaten by many, including the Cossacks.
      2. Astra wild
        Astra wild 31 August 2020 18: 42 New
        +8
        Mauritius, if you own knowledge, and not just criticize, take and write how it should be in reality
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 31 August 2020 19: 00 New
          +7
          Unpromising!
          1. Astra wild
            Astra wild 31 August 2020 20: 12 New
            +5
            Lack of knowledge?
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 31 August 2020 20: 14 New
              +7
              A sense of your own greatness. False.
              1. Astra wild
                Astra wild 31 August 2020 20: 46 New
                +6
                There are many of them here. There are also authors with great conceit and scanty knowledge.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 31 August 2020 20: 55 New
                  +7
                  There are many of them.
                  In this section, much less than in others.
        2. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 31 August 2020 21: 18 New
          +1
          Quote: Astra wild
          Mauritius, if you own knowledge, and not just criticize, take and write how it should be in reality

          Chukchi is not a writer, a Chukchi critic. (Folklore) repeat
  2. Graz
    Graz 31 August 2020 07: 07 New
    +3
    It is easy to see that in the XVII-XVIII centuries. and even at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, the existence of a united and strong Austria, an allied Russia in the wars with Turkey and Napoleon, was beneficial to our country.
    __________________________
    a dubious statement, merged by the Austrians Suvorov sent to Switzerland instead of Paris, this time, if Austria fell under Sobessky, it would be a constant abscess that weakened the Ottomans, the patchwork Austrian Holy Roman Empire would collapse completely, into small states, and Germany might not have formed in the end result
    1. VLR
      31 August 2020 07: 58 New
      +8
      The law of the conservation of strength and energy: the collapse of Austria at the end of the XNUMXth century would lead to the strengthening of the Ottoman Empire and an increase in its onslaught (and the onslaught of the Crimean Tatars vassals to it) on the Russian lands. And here the Northern War and victory over Sweden could not have happened - there would have been no time for that. Austria, indeed, diverted part of the forces of Turkey and the Tatar Crimea. And she fought with the Turks in alliance with Russia. Under Rymnik and Focsani, for example, Prince Friedrich Coburg was an ally of Suvorov. Later, the Austrians, of course, set up Suvorov - and missed the chance to transfer the war to France while Napoleon was in Egypt (which, probably, they themselves later regretted more than once). But in a number of battles both before and after the Russian and Austrian armies fought together against Napoleon.
      But in 1848, Russia should not have intervened. The weakening (at least) of Austria would lead to a decrease in its activity in the Balkans and, quite possibly, it would not have been able to annex Bosnia and Herzegovina, there would have been no shots in Sarajevo. And the Second Reich would not have had a powerful ally. In this case, most likely, Kaiser Wilhelm would have wary of unleashing a major war in Europe.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 12: 17 New
        10
        The weakening (at least) of Austria would lead to a decrease in its activity in the Balkans and, quite possibly, it would not have been able to annex Bosnia and Herzegovina, there would have been no shots in Sarajevo.

        Unfortunately, Valery, history has no subjunctive mood. drinks
        Unlike the ungrateful Franz, in the Crimean War ... the Swedes behaved differently! EMNIP, the "allies" had a desire to drag them into the war on their side, and when the Swedes refused, English newspapers began to pour slop over King Oscar Bernadotte.
        During those four-plus months (1854), when the British squadron walked along both bays of the Baltic Sea, catching merchants and fishermen and almost nothing else to commemorate their presence, the Swedish government, the Swedish aristocracy, the Swedish bourgeoisie managed to survive, so to speak , a whole range of diverse moods. Since the declaration of war on Russia, both the French and English cabinets have never ceased to persistently invite the Swedish king Oscar to take up arms and side with the allies against the formidable neighbor. [75]
        ......
        The king hesitated. He did not have the strength and desire to fight. stop
        The "liberal", that is, Palmerston's, "Daily News" from the end of April 1854 directly threatened Oscar with a revolution if he continued to oppose the wishes of the Swedish people. “The Swedish king is not a Swede, and his sympathies are on the side of Russia. The genuine Swedes are heart and soul with us. " And then followed the formidable question calling the Swedes to an uprising: "What are their (ie, Swedes. - ET) sympathies worth?", A question that could not but make a big impression at that acute moment in Stockholm
        Despite the wavering of Swedish society, the Swedish press came out in defense of the king! good
        But these warlike aspirations continued to meet with fierce opposition. Is this really a war for humanity and civilization? - Asked the editor of "Svenska Tiedningen" Johannes Hatzelius: "After all, this is just a sign posted then to cover up the most material interests of England." Hatselius points out that the French emperor is also fighting for selfish reasons, in the name of consolidating his power, and the Swedish publicist sarcastically hints that Napoleon III is as great a friend of civilization and freedom as Nicholas himself. Sweden is not prepared: the army is not trained, is not used to war, there are no engineering troops, the materiel is not organized, there is no finance, Sweden cannot fight {66}.
        Tarle, http://militera.lib.ru/h/tarle3/13.html
        The descendant of the former Napoleonic Marshal, "legalized" by Alexander I, behaved much more peacefully than the "saved" Nicholas Franz Joseph. request Sweden remained neutral in the war. soldier
        On the other hand .. but Oscar I would have had more strength and determination .. anything could happen! hi
        1. Old
          Old Michael 31 August 2020 22: 40 New
          +3
          Hello dear Pane Kohanku!
          when the Swedes refused, English newspapers began to pour mud on King Oscar Bernadotte.

          Isn't this a "hybrid war"? More precisely, information war, as a part of foreign policy and an instrument for suppressing the enemy.
          Why did this phrase catch you: in the mid-90s I came across (not preserved, for obvious reasons) a selection of excerpts from English newspapers that came out exactly after the Battle of Sinop in 1853. Believe it or not, their current "hiley like" is childish babble!
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 1 September 2020 09: 41 New
            +4
            Isn't this a "hybrid war"? More precisely, information war, as a part of foreign policy and an instrument for suppressing the enemy.

            Essentially, yes. hi To fight on land in the Baltic theater, in many respects, was planned by Swedish hands. Plus, they rocked the Swedish society itself and its individual representatives - including royalty. request Here is a link to Tarle, everything was interesting there: http://militera.lib.ru/h/tarle3/13.html
            1. Old
              Old Michael 1 September 2020 10: 31 New
              +1
              Thank you for the link!
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 1 September 2020 10: 57 New
                +3
                Thank you for the link!

                To your health! I think Tarle may not always be perfect - given the time in which he wrote, but this is one of our most iconic historians! drinks
                On the history of the Crimean War in the Baltic, and specifically, on actions near Kronstadt, I recommend Razdolgin, Skorikov, "Kronstadt Fortress." The book is from the late 1980s, and this is perhaps one of the first detailed studies, in which many documents are published for the first time. good
                Here is the link to the download site:
                http://books.totalarch.com/n/3653
                And here is the download link. My antivirus didn’t scream, so it’s okay. drinks
                http://science.totalarch.com/book/3653.rar
                With respect, Nicholai hi
                1. Old
                  Old Michael 1 September 2020 19: 56 New
                  +1
                  Good evening, Nikolai!
                  I read Tarle with great interest! The fact that the strongest diplomatic pressure was carried out on Oscar was understandable. But such an information attack made of naked lies! Very English.
                  Puzzled by another. Why was our top management so superficially aware of the enemy's plans, about the real state of the Nepirovsky fleet? The fact that Russian intelligence can work brilliantly was shown by the same Sinop. And then it gives off some pro-English sabotage.
                  I downloaded "Fortress", I will definitely study it at my leisure.
                  Once again, I sincerely thank you.
                  Regards, Mikhail
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 2 September 2020 10: 44 New
                    +2
                    Puzzled by another. Why was our top management so superficially aware of the enemy's plans, about the real state of the Nepirovsky fleet?

                    Mikhail, I think, our fleet still could do little in that situation.
                    Therefore, they took up the right thing - to fortify Kronstadt. In the first campaign in the Baltic, in 1854, the existing forts were put in order and mines were thrown. A fleet was lined up behind the forts. Old ships were also sunk on the northern channel - as a barrier (I don't remember if they did something like that on the southern channel!). In fact, this is almost the first mine and artillery position in history! fellow
                    When the Allies appeared in 1855, things were even worse for them. Next to the forts built earlier, ours built more batteries during the winter - fortification work on the bay then, as a rule, was carried out on ice. By the expected arrival of the allied squadron in 1856, the bottom of the bay was also studded with piles - whole fields. laughing
                    The question is ... why did the Allies not bring enough troops with them? The fleet can destroy the forts, but it will be more difficult to capture the city ... request That is, perhaps, they expected someone else who is closer to Russia to enter the war? what Plus we appreciated the problems with collateral. It was easier for them on the Black Sea - half of the coast belongs to the Turks, who took the pose "whatever you please". drinks
                    1. Old
                      Old Michael 2 September 2020 13: 11 New
                      +1
                      Yes, Nikolai, most likely it was.
                      And I mentioned awareness only in the context of hybrid warfare - intelligence + analytics provide greater targeting and effectiveness of information attacks.
  3. rich
    rich 31 August 2020 07: 11 New
    +7
    In honor of Jan III, Polish astronomer Jan Hevelius named the constellation "Sobieski's Shield"

    constellation of the southern hemisphere of the sky near the celestial equator. It occupies an area of ​​109,1 square degrees in the sky, contains 28 stars visible to the naked eye.
    Reduction Sct
    Shield Symbol
    Right ascension from 18h 15m to 18h 52m
    Declination from -16 ° to -4 °
    Area 109 sq. degrees (84th place)
    Apparently in latitudes From + 74 ° to -90 °
  4. rich
    rich 31 August 2020 07: 20 New
    +6
    I am not strong in heraldry, and as an amateur I was struck by the discrepancy between the family coat of arms of Jan Sobieski
    Family coat of arms of Jan Sobieski "Yanin"

    and his royal
    royal coat of arms of Jan Sobieski
    .
    Why is that? Can anyone familiar with heraldry explain?
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 31 August 2020 08: 19 New
      +3
      Quote: Rich
      I am not strong in heraldry, and as an amateur I was struck by the discrepancy between the family coat of arms of Jan Sobieski

      Me too, but the coat of arms is fully consistent.
      Family coat of arms of Jan Sobieski "Yanin"
      Crown, knight's helmet - noble origin. Rod is the elements on the shield field. The coat of arms is very modest, which indicates the antiquity and nobility of the family.
      And this element has passed the royal coat of arms of Jan Sobieski. He became the king of Poland and Lithuania, their symbols are included in their coat of arms, with a royal mantle and a crown on the coat of arms. Everything is in place. request Collect stamps, there are these coats of arms ... yes
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. rich
        rich 31 August 2020 11: 15 New
        +3
        Thanks for clarifying
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 11: 06 New
      +8
      I remembered this about Sobieski:
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild 31 August 2020 18: 49 New
        +7
        Colleagues, I liked the ad for Bank Imperial of that time: short and captivating stories
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 31 August 2020 19: 02 New
          +6
          By the way, it was a good advertisement!
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 20: 21 New
            +4
            By the way, it was a good advertisement!

            There was also a good episode about Nicholas I. soldier
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 31 August 2020 20: 50 New
              +5
              Yes, in principle, the concept was very successful!
    3. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 31 August 2020 12: 15 New
      +6
      Quote: Rich
      Can anyone familiar with heraldry explain?

      I am exactly that "familiar". smile So, noddingly, "hello, bye." smile
      Perhaps the Poles in heraldic traditions have some peculiarities in comparison with Western Europe, I don’t know. But if you look at the royal coat of arms of Sobieski, then personally I see the Polish eagle and the Lithuanian "chase" plus the patrimonial coat of arms of the gentleman in the center - Ioannina.
      And here the question arises, which, at least in relation to Western Europe, in whose arms I am guided somehow, albeit at the most rudimentary level, which I myself am not very clear about. The coat of arms is an emblem or a set of emblems, but of what kind - or an estate, that is, a possession?
      Take, for example, the coat of arms of the "kingmaker" the Earl of Warwick.

      At one time, I took it apart thoroughly and ... only got confused.
      Warwick belonged to the Neville clan, their family coat of arms is a white oblique cross on a red field (the lower left quarter of the Warwick coat of arms), their ancestral lands are Westmoreland County. At the time of wearing this coat of arms, Warwick was not the Earl of Westmoreland, which means that the emblem denotes his belonging to the clan, that is, to the family. However, the rest of the emblems on the coat of arms belong to other aristocratic families of England, the descendant of which Warwick was in the female line and, most importantly, the lands of which Warwick managed to inherit or annex, including - attention! - those lands that he owned "by right of wife", namely, Warwick County. The red rhombuses are the symbol of the Montacutes, the family of his mother (Salisbury County), the green eagles are the Grandison (I do not remember possessions), the symbol of the family of his grandmother on the maternal side, six gold crosses with a horizontal stripe - I remember exactly - the Boshams, the family of his wife (County Warwick ), and the ermine rafter, in my opinion, is Berkeley - generally the kind of his mother-in-law! I don’t remember the rest of the characters, but also some kind of distant relatives.
      If these emblems denote belonging precisely to the genus - what kind of bald, then, one wonders, on the coat of arms of the count is designated his wife and mother-in-law, who, in fact, are not his ancestors. And if the emblems denote estates (Warwick really managed to pick up the inheritance of both the Beauchamps, the Montacutes and all the listed aristocratic families), then where does the oblique white cross of the Neville, he is the emblem of Westmoreland County, which Warwick never possessed?
      Perhaps there were no strict rules and every aristocrat or just a nobleman could draw for himself the coat of arms he wanted, well, within certain limits, of course? I don’t want to wear the emblem of the family of my bore-grandmother on the coat of arms, but I like the emblem of my mother-in-law, I’ll draw it, approve it in the heraldic commission and go! Maybe so?
      The Plantagenets since the time of Edward III, the design of the coat of arms was somewhat similar to the coat of arms of the Sobessky king - lilies and lions, sort of like symbols of the English and French crown, which Edward III, and after his great-grandson Henry V, really wanted to unite. Sobieski has Poland and Lithuania, and in the center has its own patrimonial mark, covering the symbols of both the Polish crown and the Lithuanian principality. In general, everything is logical. Moreover, Janina's birth had nothing to do with the crown in itself.
      By the way, it's also not clear - what kind of coat of arms is this, including 160 genera? In short, only riddles.
      I did not answer a single question, I just puzzled all the readers' brains. And so you want, why should I suffer alone? laughing
      1. rich
        rich 31 August 2020 12: 29 New
        +6
        Sobieski has Poland and Lithuania, and in the center has its own patrimonial mark, covering the symbols of both the Polish crown and the Lithuanian principality. In general, everything is logical. Moreover, Janina's birth had nothing to do with the crown in itself. By the way, it's also not clear - what kind of coat of arms is this, including 160 genera? In short, only riddles.
        I did not answer a single question, I just puzzled all the readers' brains. And so you want, why should I suffer alone? laughing

        Michael hi
        To comment on your explanation, you cannot do without Alexander Sergeevich - "You have an evil inquisitive mind and a kind heart" (c) wink
      2. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 31 August 2020 13: 35 New
        -6
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        Perhaps there were no strict rules and every aristocrat or just a nobleman could draw for himself the coat of arms he wanted, well, within certain limits, of course?

        Ku-ku. They wrote a lot, tried, but it turns out ... tryndel?
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        I am exactly that "familiar". So, noddingly, "hello-bye" At one time I took it out thoroughly and ... just got confused.
        or is it a joke of humor? negative Well, we were engaged, studied Heraldry and suddenly: - What I want, I turn.
        You know very well that before each knightly tournament, the heralds checked the coats of arms painted on the shields, like a passport. There are clear rules, another thing is that they can be adjusted somewhat by "local"
        So presented the coat of arms of the "kingmaker" Earl of Warwick, is presented as a family tree, with all family ties. England. belay I read that the Poles had elaborate coats of arms with the union of several (A. Bushin request )
        On A.S. Pushkin was written "Pushkin". But more impressed in the Tbilisi Pantheon, a black marble slab with one word "Akaki".
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 31 August 2020 15: 04 New
          +5
          First, I wrote not for you, but for those who might be interested. Perhaps someone knows more on this topic and can provide appropriate clarifications.
          Secondly, even after reading my text, you were unable to understand it, as evidenced by this phrase:
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          So the presented coat of arms of the "kingmaker" Earl of Warwick is represented as a family tree,

          What family tree of the bearer of the coat of arms are we talking about if half of this coat of arms is occupied by the signs of his wife's relatives (first and fourth quarters) and this is clearly stated in the text itself? Only the second and third quarters of the coat of arms belong to the genealogy of Warwick himself.
          Explain also why over the course of the owner's life his coat of arms could change - was his pedigree unstable?
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          before each knightly tournament, the heralds checked the emblems painted on the shields, like a passport.

          Maybe it's enough to study the history of Walter Scott and Arthur Conan-Doyle already?
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          There are clear rules

          And you probably even know these rules? Then explain what the signs of Beauchamps, Dispensers, etc., which were not his ancestors, do on Warwick's coat of arms, this is half of his coat of arms. Explain why in the first quarter the signs of his father-in-law and mother-in-law, in the second - his father's father-in-law and mother-in-law, and only in the third - his own, while in the fourth - in general, if my memory serves me, the grandmother and the grandfather of the wife?
          What do you think the symbols on the coat of arms should mean - the owner's pedigree or his actual land holdings?
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          I read that the Poles had elaborate coats of arms with the union of several

          Welcome, Captain Obvious. With such fundamental knowledge, you can already submit your resume directly to the Heraldic Chamber. laughing
          Do you know what the difference is between us?
          I honestly announced that I did not know the answer to my question and explained why I was not satisfied with the available ones. To you, unlike me, everything is absolutely clear and you don't need any knowledge for this. I just have to hear this answer from you and go suffer over my deep ignorance. Well, I'm ready. Broadcast. laughing
          1. Astra wild
            Astra wild 31 August 2020 18: 55 New
            +7
            Mikhail, it gives me pleasure to watch how you "tear" your opponents to shreds
            I'm glad that I was smart enough not to quarrel with you. You will not regret epithets for the enemy
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 31 August 2020 19: 07 New
              +6
              You know, Vera, I am calm about people who do not know something. We all do not know something, even in those areas in which we work professionally. I only sharply respond to harshness, to underwear, to aggressive stupidity.
              I don’t quarrel with anyone, I often don’t even remember nicknames, to whom I answer, with whom I communicate. I remember literally a dozen users by nicknames, maybe two, the rest are new people for me. It is not WHO who writes that is important to me, but WHAT is written.
              In general, it’s time to go on vacation, since you’ve noticed my "malice", but unfortunately, it will not work. "Ripping" is such a dubious compliment, I think. smile
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 31 August 2020 20: 08 New
                +6
                We all do not know something, even in those areas in which we work professionally.
                Exactly! I have been studying for 30 years.
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 31 August 2020 20: 10 New
                +5
                In general, it’s time to go on vacation, since you’ve noticed my "malice", but unfortunately, it will not work.
                Unfortunately, in my case, too. crying
              3. Astra wild
                Astra wild 31 August 2020 20: 57 New
                +3
                Mikhail, you have been told more than once that the enemy was mixed with shit, crushed, but wanted to find another comparison
                P
                S
                "Aggressive stupidity" exactly said
              4. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 1 September 2020 12: 59 New
                0
                "Ripping" is such a dubious compliment, I think.

                It's okay, "tear" further. At least in your "zeal" there is much more informative information, and not critical information noise. hi
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 August 2020 20: 18 New
              +4
              Quote: Astra wild
              Mikhail, it gives me pleasure to watch how you "tear" your opponents to shreds
              I'm glad that I was smart enough not to quarrel with you. You will not regret epithets for the enemy

              Vicious and insidious TRILOBIT !!!
              Years past, even before the appearance of the nicknames of the Master Trilobite and Kote Pan Kohanka, we periodically broke spears with Mikhail discussing the Russian princes, boyars and much more! Never - I emphasize - never, Mikhail never crosses the line of ignorance, tactlessness and rudeness. Over the past four years, We have really cut ourselves off with our whole bunch to such an extent that we forgive each other for minor weaknesses, we are even loyal to two sabobies in our pro-cat affairs, but this is probably an exception that confirms the rule!
              And the rule is simple, the history branch on VO is an opportunity to learn new things, and unlike many resources - comments from members of the forum are no worse, but better than the articles themselves. As you noticed Vera, we can joke, prick and laugh at each other, but it is customary for us to listen and respect the opponent. If any of us goes too far, basically - this is my sin, you can get a personal comment. Believe me, a reproach from friends has much more significant weight than a ban in a piggy bank !!!
              On my own note, your appearance in our circle has had a beneficial effect on the behavior of our society. We are a little shy, I think for the best.
              Regards, Vlad!
              1. Astra wild
                Astra wild 31 August 2020 21: 09 New
                +5
                Vlad, it gave me and still gives me pleasure to observe how friendly and communicating: you, Mikhail, Vladkub, Konstantin, Nikolai and Anton.
                Unfortunately, there are such wild emotions on the site that I feel terrified
      3. VIP
        VIP 31 August 2020 18: 33 New
        +3
        However, the "gluttonous" was Count Warwick "(I met such a spelling)" the maker of kings. "I hardly remember, but it seems that in the end his head was cut off. Probably, he bet on the wrong ....
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 31 August 2020 18: 55 New
          +3
          Killed at the Battle of Barnet. It seems that he was killed while trying to escape from the battlefield by his own soldiers.
      4. Astra wild
        Astra wild 31 August 2020 20: 14 New
        +2
        However, you are mean
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 31 August 2020 20: 24 New
          +5
          No, my Beautiful Stranger! Mikhail is not an angry person, he just knows that ", .... He doesn't like idiots" (C)
          1. Astra wild
            Astra wild 31 August 2020 21: 10 New
            +3
            I'll tell you a secret, I don't like them myself
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 31 August 2020 21: 12 New
              +6
              "What a woman wants, God wants"
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 1 September 2020 16: 56 New
                +2
                "What a woman wants, God wants"

                - What does Masik want?
                - Masik wants vodka ...
                repeat
    4. arturpraetor
      arturpraetor 31 August 2020 15: 07 New
      +6
      Quote: Rich
      Why is that? Can anyone familiar with heraldry explain?

      A common practice in many European countries. A family coat of arms is one thing, but if a representative of some kind becomes the ruler of a state, then the heraldry of these states was usually added to the family coat of arms. Like, "a representative of the genus A, sovereign B." This was not accepted in all countries, and could have different manifestations. For example, the dynastic coat of arms of the Habsburgs (a scarlet lion on a gold background) was used extremely rarely in practice, and it was replaced by the state one (for sure, "the state is me"), and in some branches of the Bourbons (for example, the Sicilian ones), the family coat of arms was a combination of state and dynastic. That is, the purely visual principle of the Polish royal coat of arms could be the same, but in some countries it could be read as "state B led by a representative of genus A", or "genus A originating from state / living in state B."
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 31 August 2020 18: 52 New
        +6
        Greetings, Artem. smile
        Quote: arturpraetor
        A family coat of arms is one thing, but if a representative of some kind becomes the ruler of a state, then the heraldry of these states was usually added to the family coat of arms.

        It became interesting, however, but is it possible to distinguish the components of the coats of arms, denoting belonging to the clan and ownership? In the coat of arms of Warwick, for example (it is convenient to analyze it, it is saturated), three-quarters are devoted to his ancestral ties and only one speaks about the native genus of the carrier. At the same time, the following is interesting: this quarter is the only whole, the rest are private.
        Three quarters, telling about the ancestral ties of the count, are at the same time symbols of his possessions, the first of which he himself considered Warwickshire, therefore the symbols of the Beauchamps, through the marriage with whose heiress he received this county, occupy the first quarter. The second quarter is the symbols of the Montacutes, through the marriage with which Warwick's father received the County of Salisbury. Fourth Quarter - Dispensers, distant relatives by his wife, whose possessions also went to Warwick.
        At the same time, Neville's own oblique cross with breezes (Warwick's father was the youngest son in the family) does not say that the owner of the coat of arms is the Earl of Westmoreland, which neither Warwick himself nor his father were.
        Here's how to distinguish the sign of belonging to the genus from the sign of ownership, title? request
        1. arturpraetor
          arturpraetor 31 August 2020 19: 10 New
          +5
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Here's how to distinguish the sign of belonging to the genus from the sign of ownership, title?

          By and large - no way smile Too often, the coats of arms of various clans and possessions were intertwined with each other. Here you need to know not some schemes for the formation of clan heraldry, but specific examples of which element of heraldry is responsible for what, because too often clan heraldry became the basis of the heraldry of possessions, and vice versa. For example, the family coat of arms of the Medici dynasty was considered the coat of arms of Tuscany, and the coat of arms of the Spanish Habsburgs was a cruel mess of the coats of arms of various possessions of the dynasty, but without the family symbol of the Habsburgs - a scarlet lion on a gold background.

          And one more thing - personal emblems were essentially a personal choice of a person, and could be very different from family ones. On a personal coat of arms, with a strong desire, a person could put at least a mole, at least a raccoon, at least an apple moth, while it was very desirable to place the family coat of arms there as a separate element. But again, there were no clear canons here, each country had its own differences, only layouts by color and a general combination of elements (shield, outline, etc.) could be repeated or have a single structure.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 31 August 2020 20: 03 New
            +4
            So I came to approximately the same conclusion: there were no strict rules for the compilation and design of coats of arms. The owner could change his coat of arms depending on the current state of affairs - he got married, widowed, remarried, acquired, taken away, conquered, sold ... Probably, in this case the word "title" will be the key word. Most likely, the titles were displayed on the coats of arms, but, of course, not all.
            And the title can be received as a dowry, it can be inherited, it can be lost ...
            1. arturpraetor
              arturpraetor 31 August 2020 20: 19 New
              +3
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              So I came to approximately the same conclusion: there were no strict rules for the compilation and design of coats of arms.

              They were, but they were not always adhered to, and they concerned primarily the "wrapper" - the shape of the shield, the basting, the helmet, the crown, ribbons with mottos, etc. The very content of the coat of arms was practically not regulated in any way, except for several points that were common in all countries - like the tradition of placing the family coat of arms over the titular one (as on the royal coat of arms of Jan Sobieski), and not otherwise.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              The owner could change his coat of arms depending on the current state of affairs - he got married, widowed, married again, acquired, taken away, conquered, sold ...

              This is about the personal coat of arms. Family coats of arms changed much less frequently.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Probably, in this case, the word "title" will be the key word. Most likely, the titles were displayed on the coats of arms, but, of course, not all.

              Not always. For example, the titular coats of arms of the Spanish aristocracy have nothing to do with the coats of arms of the titles themselves, and originated from the family coats of arms of their holders. The current counts of Trastamara on the coat of arms use completely different coats of arms that used the counts of Trastamar from the side branch of the Hebrew house, and in both cases symbols are used that are not associated with the Trastamar region in northern Galicia. In fact, this is just the family coat of arms of the Osorio family, whose distant descendant is the current 27th Count of Trastamara, Jaime Castellano and de La Chica.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              And the title can be received as a dowry, it can be inherited, it can be lost ...

              Again, this is country and case dependent. Because in some countries they could separate the state and dynastic coat of arms, and in some - not. And in some at one time they separated, and at another - not. The Habsburgs loved to show off their titles on the coat of arms, and the Habsburgs-Lorraine were already more modest. And the same goes for smaller titles. Heraldry in this place is a very complicated thing.
  5. lucul
    lucul 31 August 2020 09: 06 New
    +2
    Write someone an article about the civil war of 1432-1436 in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Russia, Zhemoytsky. Falling reference point ON
  6. sivuch
    sivuch 31 August 2020 09: 07 New
    +2
    It was clear to everyone that Vienna was actually deciding the fate of Europe,
    Well, that's a gross exaggeration. The maximum is a serious weakening of the HRE, to the joy of France and nothing more.
  7. Undecim
    Undecim 31 August 2020 09: 30 New
    +7
    During this time, he even managed to serve in the French army, taking part in the Thirty Years War.
    He did not serve in the French army and did not participate in the Thirty Years War. He was enlisted in one of the companies of the royal guard (or musketeers or light cavalry, it must be specified), but this was a purely political step.
    Staying almost a year in Paris, he successfully took the boudoirs of married noble Parisians by storm. The result of these hostilities is a certain monsieur de Brisacier, who subsequently caused serious problems to King Sobesky.
  8. pytar
    pytar 31 August 2020 09: 57 New
    +7
    Polish winged hussars! Nice, effective look!




    1. rich
      rich 31 August 2020 10: 26 New
      +6
      Greetings, Boyan hi
      Yes Looks impressive
      But only in the pictures are not hussars (Polish - husarz), but hussars (Polish - husaria)
      Husaria specialized in “breaking through” the battle formations of enemy cavalry or infantry with a concentrated spear cavalry strike. Husaria was created at the turn of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries and was a detachment of heavy cavalry with specific tactics, weapons, manning and had easily recognizable distinctive attributes - wings (attached in various ways behind the rider's back), very long pikes with ensigns and animal skins. For many decades, Husaria was the main striking force of the troops of the Commonwealth, in contrast to ordinary hussars, which were light cavalry.
      It is noteworthy that the Turkish “Delhi” (literally “insane”) influenced the equipment and appearance of the hussars.
      fig. turkish delhi

      This was the name of the soldiers of the cavalry detachments used in the vanguard of the Turkish army. They were usually recruited by the rulers of the border regions from the Balkan peoples - the southern Slavs, Serbs, Croats, Bulgarians, Albanians, etc., subject to the Ottoman Empire. Delhi were distinguished by their "insane" courage, instead of armor they wore skins of wild animals and adorned themselves with the wings of birds of prey. Following the example of Delhi, Hungarian and Polish hussars began to wear wings on shields and headdresses.
      1. Liam
        Liam 31 August 2020 10: 29 New
        +4
        Quote: Rich
        But only in the pictures are not hussars (Polish - husarz), but hussars (Polish - husaria)

        Was Husaria not a hussar?
        1. rich
          rich 31 August 2020 10: 38 New
          +7
          Polonica hussarinus in genere "Dellium" (Polish gusarite in the style of "Delhi").
          Engraving by Stefano della Bella (1633).

      2. pytar
        pytar 31 August 2020 11: 15 New
        +6
        Hi Dmitry! hi
        Thanks for the clarifications! In the Bulgarian explanatory dictionary, the word delia described as:
        1. History. Turski warrior from the XNUMXth - XNUMXth centuries, who occupied himself with robbery and violence. (A Turkish soldier who was involved in robbery and violence) /. In short, robbers.
        2. Spread. Buen Chovek. / riot people /.

        These were irregular equestrian detachments, assembled from different peoples of the Ottoman Empire. Mostly Albanians (Arnauts), Tatars, Caucasians, Gypsies, Kurds, there were also the mediated Slavs. The only prerequisite was that they were all mohamedans!
        1. rich
          rich 31 August 2020 11: 19 New
          +4
          The only prerequisite was that they were all mohamedans!

          Did not know. Thanks for the addition
      3. Undecim
        Undecim 31 August 2020 13: 22 New
        +9
        But only in the pictures are not hussars (Polish - husarz), but hussars (Polish - husaria)
        You have confused the audience with your linguistic excursions and led it in the wrong place. Roughly the same as saying that in the pictures there are not cavalrymen, but cavalry.
        Husarz - żołnierz husarii, półciężkiej formacji kawaleryjskiej I Rzeczypospolitej
        In translation - hussars - soldiers of hussars - cavalry of the Commonwealth.
        So there are hussars in the pictures.
        1. rich
          rich 31 August 2020 14: 17 New
          +3
          Roughly the same as saying that in the pictures there are not cavalrymen, but cavalry.

          Let me disagree with you. Do not compare light cavalry - Polish - huzary and Latin. - hussar and heavy - Latin-hussarinus (as signed on the engraving by Stefano della Bella (1633)). Although they both naturally existed in a certain period of time in parallel ... But with absolutely different tasks and weapons. Moreover, there are plenty of reasons for discrepancies. Modern Polish historians also did not come to a consensus on this issue as they were called and tolerantly call this kind of cavalry neutrally - "Huzary ze skrzydłami" winged hussars.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 31 August 2020 14: 32 New
            +7
            Let me disagree with you.
            Let's not let you.
            There is no need to multiply entities, there is a lot of all sorts of nonsense in the network. Yes, the armament and equipment of the Polish hussars changed. Before Stefan Batory it was a classic light cavalry, after his reforms it began to be "heavier". But throughout its existence it was Husaria as a branch of the husarz, hussars. And never in the Polish language there were different names for hussars as cavalrymen and hussars as cavalry.
      4. VIP
        VIP 31 August 2020 18: 19 New
        +4
        These "delhi" are reminiscent of the Bashibuzuk "bad head"; they were also recruited from the Balkan peoples. The same horde disobedient to discipline.
        Bulgarian friends, they would better tell about the bashibuzuks, it seems that the Turks used them as auxiliary forces. They "noted" in the Russian-Turkish war of 1878.
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 10: 58 New
      +7
      Polish winged hussars! Nice, effective look!

      in fact, the last horse-drawn spearmen of Europe!
      I would venture to suggest that, according to their purpose, they were later replaced by the Polish lancers. hi
      So, calling himself in the second part of his aphorism the most stupid Russian emperor, Nicholas I, alas, was largely right.

      Alexander II took revenge on the young bastard (Franz Joseph) for betrayal. negative In 1859, the Austro-Italian-French war broke out. To screw up with the balance of power (as the Austrians shit on us during the Crimean War), the following was done: Russia, in retaliation for Austria's behavior in the Eastern War, concluded a secret agreement with Napoleon III and prevented Austria and Prussia from exposing their eastern provinces from the troops.
      Svechin A.A. The evolution of military art. Volume II - M.-L .: Voengiz, 1928
      http://militera.lib.ru/science/svechin2b/02.html
      I.e. As far as I understand, several corps were pulled up to the Austrian border from the Russian side, which made Franz extremely nervous. bully And the Austrians lost the war ... wink
      1. rich
        rich 31 August 2020 14: 33 New
        +4
        in fact, the last horse-drawn spearmen of Europe!

        Absolutely right! It is the spearmen. After all, all the "peaks" of winged hussars that have survived to this day have metal spear-type tips. And this is at a length of 4-5 m. The characteristic detail of the peak was a spherical guard. This guard was called "apple" by foreign contemporaries. The pica was a disposable weapon. Its shaft was made from cheap and light wood, such as pine or spruce, the lighter the better. The shaft was additionally lightened by the internal cavity. Reconstructors came to the conclusion that the easiest way to make a shaft is from two halves. hollowing out the core, and then gluing them together. Cardinal Valenti (1604) writes about that. that the two halves of the shaft were connected with sinews, silk threads and strong glue, and then dyed in different colors and decorated in every way.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 14: 43 New
          +3
          After all, all the "peaks" of winged hussars that have survived to this day have metal spear-type tips. And this is at a length of 4-5 m. A characteristic detail of the peak was a spherical guard.

          But look at this picture, Dmitry! drinks for copies ... wink

          Johann Martin Will, "The Russian Imperial Army under the command of General Field Marshal Potemkin", Bavaria, Augsburg, after 1784. Paper, etching, cutter, State Hermitage Museum.

          Photo taken at an exhibition in the Hermitage dedicated to Grigory Potemkin, 02 March 2020.
          Take a look (hopefully seen) that in the hands of two Cossacks in the left corner. But this ... on the edge resembles a part-shot! Although, EMNIP, protazan was a "status weapon" of infantry officers and honor guards, moreover, in Russia it has not been used in the infantry for 50 years! drinks
          1. rich
            rich 31 August 2020 15: 09 New
            +2
            Look (I hope you can see) what is in the hands of the two Cossacks in the left corner.

            It can be seen normally. The picture is correctly inserted - enlarged by clicking.
            And as for the protazans, they are also completely bewildered. Maybe officers?
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 15: 13 New
              +4
              And as for the protazans, they are also completely bewildered. Maybe officers?

              Apparently, either the German artist got something wrong, or .. it could have been some kind of "regional type of copies" resembling protazani.
              Very something similar, protasanoid, draws Viskovatov companions - Equestrian lodger in 1678. (wikipedia). drinks Or it is generally "without ears", but simply with a flag. request the second is even faster ...

              But this is the 17th century. And what could remain in the hands of the Cossacks in the Turkish theater of military operations in 100 years - only God knows. drinks
              1. rich
                rich 31 August 2020 15: 27 New
                +3
                Apparently, either the German artist confused something

                Like on this German postcard with the Don Cossacks. Bunchuk under the spear blade at the one on the right upside down smile
                1. VIP
                  VIP 31 August 2020 18: 04 New
                  +3
                  The horse has a cool "pack": it looks like a gnome
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 31 August 2020 15: 30 New
            +6
            This may well be the so-called "knife on the army", the Cossacks were also armed with them.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 15: 44 New
              +4
              This may well be the so-called "knife on the army", the Cossacks were also armed with them.

              Anton, apparently, the "knife" you mentioned is exactly what a knife blade. hi

              In the above photos of the cavalrymen, there is clearly a reference to the side "ears" on the blade.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 31 August 2020 15: 51 New
                +6
                Photo enlarges poorly on the phone request
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 16: 09 New
                  +5
                  Photo enlarges poorly on the phone

                  sorry. If you're talking about a photo of the Potemkin army from the Hermitage, I had to take a camera with me, but here they were filming with an iPhone. It does not look very well on the forum, although Dmitry looked through it. drinks
                  But about the polearm "status" weapon, I will give you an example in the person of one person - Kenau Hasseler, the heroine of the siege of Haarlem in 1572-1573 (Haarlem is a Dutch city, not a "big small homeland of hip-hop"). wink drinks
                  1. Portrait of Kenau Hasseler, painted between 1573 and 1600. In his hands - a halberd. Whose status weapon? That's right - a sergeant. soldier

                  2. I do not know what years this picture is, but here it is mentioned by the "captain", and in the hands - an early esponton. No crosshair, but with a wide leaf-shaped tip. fellow Perhaps this picture is the most reliable! yes

                  3. Kenau Hasseler on a Dutch patriotic brochure of the 18th century. A certain protazan with "back ears". In the XNUMXth century, this was already called a halberd. what

                  4. Kenau Hasseler illustrated in an 1696th century French book. Spontoon. But! With a distinctive blade. Coincides with the blade that Maitre Giffard drew in a French infantry textbook of XNUMX. An illustration from a French book? So they drew such blades as they saw on their own officers. request

                  That is ... Status weapons have a place to be. And every author depicts it as he imagines it. drinks
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 31 August 2020 16: 44 New
                    +5
                    So maybe Herr Will also saw "a knife on the martin", but painted a protazan?
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 16: 57 New
                      +6
                      So maybe Herr Will also saw "a knife on the martin", but painted a protazan?

                      By that time, the protazans in Europe had long been removed from the infantry, leaving only in the honor guard. When the officers of the Petrine army were armed with it, their European colleagues and opponents were already flaunting with espontons.
                      And here is a panel on the Zvenigorodskaya metro station. Shown is the uniform of the army of Peter I.

                      What's wrong with the picture?
                      The character on the far left is standing with a halberd. So the sergeant. But he is wearing an officer and an officer's scarf! Disorder! If you are a sergeant (left in the picture below) - then no gorget and scarf! And if the officer (on the right, in the same place) - then take the partisan in your hand. stop

                      Further, the next polearm on the left, we see an early esponton, but such began to enter the hands of officers already in the 1730s. request And, finally, the extreme spear on the right (above the drummer) is an esponton from the time of Tsar Pavel Petrovich. yes
                      That is, some kind of confusion of eras, during which you can take your hands off. hi
                      1. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 31 August 2020 17: 23 New
                        +6
                        Quote: Pan Kohanku
                        That is, some kind of confusion of eras, during which you can take your hands off.

                        How interesting, Nikolai, I tried to remember everything: I will spin my erudition somehow on Zvenigorodskaya!
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 17: 29 New
                        +7
                        How interesting, Nikolai, I tried to remember everything: I will spin my erudition somehow on Zvenigorodskaya!

                        It would be necessary, Sergei, otherwise the country breeds hamsters-don’t know! drinks
                      3. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 31 August 2020 17: 30 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Pan Kohanku
                        hamsters-don’t know the country breeds!

                        And design girls
                      4. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 20: 12 New
                        +3
                        And design girls

                        ... and carbon copies in search of a sugar daddy ... negative
                      5. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 August 2020 20: 33 New
                        +5
                        Quote: Mihaylov
                        Quote: Pan Kohanku
                        hamsters-don’t know the country breeds!

                        And design girls

                        Hamsters from the news thread are much more dangerous, at least for their quantity and virgin purity of knowledge in the field of history. Spoiled with likes, alas, they often replace the truth with boorish behavior and insults.
                      6. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 21: 17 New
                        +5
                        Spoiled with likes, alas, they often replace the truth with boorish behavior and insults.

                        I sell spruce in industrial quantities at manufacturer's price! And candles ... wink Vlad will understand! lol
                      7. VIP
                        VIP 1 September 2020 13: 47 New
                        +2
                        If they start a war, then we will fight. I'm with you.
                      8. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 September 2020 16: 19 New
                        +1
                        Sincerely yours! hi
            2. VIP
              VIP 31 August 2020 18: 01 New
              +7
              Unfortunately good historians "piece goods" however - it has always been like this
            3. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 20: 14 New
              +5
              Unfortunately good historians "piece goods" however - it has always been like this

              Vladimir, unfortunately, we can find flaws in many paintings that are not drawn from life ... But the "status weapon of an infantry officer" is shown only in one Russian film! This is "Poor, poor Paul" ... Exactly! drinks
          3. Undecim
            Undecim 31 August 2020 18: 06 New
            +5
            But the artist is a well-known person, Alexander Kirovich Bystrov, Soviet and Russian monumental artist, mosaicist, painter, teacher, professor. Academician of the Russian Academy of Arts. People's Artist of the Russian Federation. Member of the St. Petersburg Union of Artists since 1990.
            The panel is called "Semenovsky Regiment", it depicts Peter I and Field Marshal Sheremetyev surrounded by guardsmen.
          4. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 31 August 2020 18: 46 New
            +5
            Hello, Victor Nikolaevich! The decoration of the St. Petersburg metro, as its creation and existence, is a separate epic. Something in between Sturllson and Weller.
          5. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 20: 16 New
            +4
            The panel is called "Semenovsky Regiment", it depicts Peter I and Field Marshal Sheremetyev surrounded by guardsmen.

            But you can see the flaws of the content yourself, dear Viktor Nikolaevich ... hi So the consultants were ... from "hamsters with their own opinion "! request
          6. Astra wild
            Astra wild 31 August 2020 20: 25 New
            +3
            Viktor Nikolaevich, he is not a specialist in cold steel and could allow the mixing of eras
          7. Undecim
            Undecim 31 August 2020 20: 48 New
            +5
            Here, no matter how you mix it, in no era did the officers of the guards regiments have halberds. An artist of this level should not allow such blunders.
          8. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 21: 25 New
            +4
            Here, no matter how you mix it, in no era did the officers of the guards regiments have halberds.

            The officers squeezed partisans and espontons, but there is a Santa Barbara. The last espontons for officers and halberds for sergeants were introduced by Pavel Petrovich. There is very little information - on sizes and techniques! request It seems that the most detailed is the textbook of the printing house by Maitre Giffard in 1696. hi It might be worth flipping through Viskovatov. At least the shafts of our espontons were painted depending on the regiment. yes they removed them, it seems, after Friedland.
            Esponton in the film is shown here:
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 31 August 2020 19: 00 New
    +4
    Nikolay, excuse my curiosity, but who is Kenau Hasseler? First time I hear about her
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 20: 20 New
      +5
      Nikolay, excuse my curiosity, but who is Kenau Hasseler? First time I hear about her

      One of the elders of Haarlem during its siege by the Spaniards and who joined them in the 16th century, during the Dutch struggle for independence. Vera, about her and the film was shot - "Kenau". Not so much (in European cinema, one and a half reenactors generally fight), but still .. what Although the end of the film is lying - Kenau survived! yes
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 31 August 2020 20: 37 New
      +5
      Semi-legendary personality, "Ulenspiegel" in a skirt, but existed in reality.
  • Kronos
    Kronos 31 August 2020 10: 37 New
    +3
    I doubt that at the end of the 17th century, the Turks could still really claim to conquer Europe.
    1. VLR
      31 August 2020 11: 16 New
      +5
      How to say. The Ottomans were on their way out, but back in 1711, near the Prut River, they almost captured the entire Russian army led by Peter I - after Poltava! Karl XII, who had galloped up from Bender, simply did not understand why the Russians were released, was furious and with a blow of his spur tore the half of the robe of the Grand Vizier, who commanded the Turks.
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild 31 August 2020 19: 08 New
        +1
        Valery, there is such a version that Marta Skavronskaya "Ekaterina 1" bribed the Turkish vizier and he released the Russian army.
        Peter 1 established the Order of St. Catherine and gave 1 order to his wife. In the award list there is a hint about this "known to all our troops." Perhaps not an accurate quote
        1. VLR
          31 August 2020 20: 42 New
          +4
          Pyotr Shafirov played the main role in the negotiations, and there was no bribe - there was an ordinary gift, without which the vizier would not even talk to him. There was such a custom in Turkey - if you want to talk, respect a person. He wants to talk to you - he also respects. And the more respect, the greater the gift. And all the gifts to the Ottoman officials were carried - the French, the British, the Venetians, etc.
          And Shafirov agreed, emphasizing that the Russians are ready to die, but to sell their lives dearly.
          According to many historians, the version that Catherine bought the vizier for her jewelry belongs to Charles XII, who wanted to present Peter as a coward, hiding behind a woman's skirt.
          And the order was established for the courageous behavior of Catherine (who was 7 months pregnant) and moral support.
          1. Astra wild
            Astra wild 1 September 2020 07: 47 New
            +1
            So I was not mistaken and such a version existed
            1. VLR
              2 September 2020 05: 15 New
              0
              Ironically, this version, offensive to Russia and the Russian army, not only exists, but is also the main
  • north 2
    north 2 31 August 2020 11: 42 New
    +4
    I want to immediately notice that nature and architects have created the same conditions for the Olesko Castle in
    Ukraine and the Wevel Castle in Poland. Olesky Castle is even more majestic both in terms of the terrain on the landscape and according to the idea of ​​architects. So that beauty and harmony, history and architectural masterpieces, the greatness of the ancestors is passed on as a baton from generation to generation. In the end it could
    to be simply divinely beautiful to everyone, and for those who are interested in history, it would also be artifacts enclosed in tombs and sarcophagi, in halls, in furniture, paintings, documents, thrones, and all this is framed in a well-groomed territory and beautifully restored architecture of castles. Now, everything that nature, history and architects created for the Wewel Castle have now been preserved by the Poles in amazing beauty and in order with thousands of historical artifacts. But the Ukrainian Olesky Castle, it has not been restored for forty years. The exhibits are such that historically more significant can be found
    valuable in any village hut. I was in both castles and saw with my own eyes how in Olesko
    the castle in the halls, the parquet fell off in pieces, the plaster fell off whole walls and like grass on the territory of the castle
    hot.
    You will say that for Ukraine this place is not sacred history, because the enemies of Ukraine were there. AND
    how then with the Kiev Pechersk Lavra and with the Orthodox Churches in Ukraine, because the Ukrainian authorities and the elite are now saying ... that oh how many enemies of Ukraine hid in these caves and
    how many of these enemies of Ukraine, Muscovites, visit the current Orthodox Churches of Kiev. This means that these barbarians are in power in Ukraine in a short time and the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra and the Orthodox Cathedral
    The cathedrals of Kiev will lead to the same state, in which it has been for several decades now
    once the former beautiful and majestic Olesky castle.
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild 31 August 2020 17: 43 New
      -1
      Colleague North, you + a good comment, but forgive the grammar you have a problem: "grass on the KNEE", and "kalenna" is an error
  • Freeman
    Freeman 31 August 2020 12: 16 New
    +5
    The decisive battle began in the early morning of September 12. Sobieski placed his troops on the right, the allied Germans were advancing in the center, and the Austrians on the left. The decisive blow was the blow of the Polish cavalry - 20 thousand famous winged hussars, led by Sobieski himself.

    Jan Sobieski sent the trophy banner of the Prophet Muhammad to the Vatican, writing to the Pope:
    "We came, we saw, God won."
    / "Venimus, Vidimus, Deus vicit" /


    Stills from the 2012 Polish-Italian film "September 1683, XNUMX".
    / Another name for "Die Belagerung" ("Siege") /

    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 August 2020 20: 37 New
      +2
      No offense. The film is colorful, but a fairy tale !!!
      1. Freeman
        Freeman 31 August 2020 21: 26 New
        +3
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
        No offense. The film is colorful, but a fairy tale !!!

        What grudges? "Film" is fictional, not documentary. hi
  • Olddetractor
    Olddetractor 31 August 2020 12: 47 New
    +5
    Thanks for the article. Excellent illustrations, in which horses look nobler than their riders. Or does it seem so to me alone?
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 August 2020 20: 41 New
      +4
      Quote: Olddetractor
      Thanks for the article. Excellent illustrations, in which horses look nobler than their riders. Or does it seem so to me alone?

      Subtle remark! I fully support you, you should have seen domestic cats - "Flying Hussar" !!!
      When I come home, my cat allows me to stroke her belly, after that it minces into the kitchen and begins to yell - “Drive the grub master! The belly is empty, you are convinced !!! laughing
  • Catfish
    Catfish 31 August 2020 13: 43 New
    12
    In 1939 in England for Poland the motor ship "Jan III Sobieski" was built and launched.
    Throughout the war, it was used by the Allies as a military transport and participated in several operations ("Ariel" / "Antenna"). Since 1947 he worked under the Polish flag on the lines Genoa - New York and Naples - Halifax.
    In 1950, it was sold to the USSR, changed its name to "Georgia", became part of ChMP (home port of Odessa) and began regular flights on the Crimean-Caucasian line. In April 1975 it was sold for scrap in the Italian port of La Spezia and disposed of.
    In the film Crown of the Russian Empire, or Elusive Again, released in 1971, the ship "Georgia" "played" the role of the steamer "Gloria", and Anatoly Garagulya (the real captain of "Georgia)" - its captain.
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 31 August 2020 21: 36 New
      +4
      Quote: Sea Cat
      the film "Crown of the Russian Empire, or Elusive Again" released in 1971, the motor ship "Georgia"

      Hello Konstantin! And also! And also! In the * Diamond Hand *! Remember the moment with subtitles? * It was the seventh day of an exciting journey .... *?
      Well, before Istanbul? wink
      This is also * Georgia *!
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 31 August 2020 13: 59 New
    +7
    The decisive blow was the blow of the Polish cavalry - 20 thousand famous winged hussars, led by Sobieski himself.

    Confused only by the figure of 20 thousand winged hussars. Their number never exceeded several thousand people, as far as I remember, usually in the Polish army there were no more than 2-3 thousand.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 31 August 2020 14: 21 New
      10
      The decisive blow was the blow of the Polish cavalry - 20 thousand famous winged hussars, led by Sobieski himself.
      Yes, here the author, according to his habit, let's say, embellished. 20 - this is the number of all attacking cavalry - Austrian, Polish, German. And now the figure is being questioned.
      There were 3600 Polish hussars in this battle.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 31 August 2020 15: 10 New
        13
        An interesting train of thought minus. What do they disagree with? Recently, lemmings from Novosti began to penetrate more and more into the "History" section. Just like emigrants to Europe. With the same consequences - to make a mess and do nothing.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 15: 20 New
          +8
          An interesting train of thought minus.

          Viktor Nikolaevich, for the first time or what? drinks You are a plus for him, he is a minus for you ... laughing
          What do they disagree with?

          and here it is not a matter of agreement-disagreement ... hi
        2. rich
          rich 31 August 2020 17: 04 New
          +8
          Recently, lemmings from Novosti began to penetrate more and more into the "History" section. Just like emigrants to Europe. With the same consequences - to make a mess and do nothing.

          Never mind
        3. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 31 August 2020 17: 26 New
          +6
          Quote: Undecim
          An interesting train of thought minus. What do they disagree with? ...

          “With both Engels and Kautsky. Everything must be selected and divided! " (from)
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 1 September 2020 12: 36 New
            +3
            “With both Engels and Kautsky. Everything must be selected and divided! "

            "I ask you to put these words in the protocol!" (Shvonder) drinks
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 1 September 2020 13: 17 New
              +2
              drinks By the way, it was cool - a legal operating room at home))
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 1 September 2020 13: 20 New
                +3
                By the way, it was great - a legal operating at home

                yeah, especially the rejuvenated hero of Filippov with a bunch of "funny pictures" wink drinks Now they would torture them with licenses and permits, I suppose? hi
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 1 September 2020 13: 40 New
                  +2
                  Now figs would be given permission, and not only in Russia. Need, sawed off the operating room, its own intensive care unit - an intensive care unit with a bunch of personnel on duty, etc.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 1 September 2020 18: 59 New
                    +3
                    I wonder you! However, like other "actual" Jews. Under today's article by Shpakovsky, all and sundry, share "Spanish gold", and here you are "toshi-posi" divorced with the old imperial "captain ...".
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 1 September 2020 19: 03 New
                      +2
                      I hung up on beating Maz in an article about another Israeli bombing of Syria)))
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 September 2020 19: 13 New
                        +3
                        Evono how! Nothing "Hel Avir" bombed Syria without asking permission from another snusmumrik ??? Cognitive dissonance, however, comes out. For snusmumrik. And the pattern break.
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 1 September 2020 19: 16 New
                        +2
                        The fact of the matter is that Snusmumrik is a resident of Israel laughing With his Jewish wife I got into the country))
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 September 2020 19: 20 New
                        +3
                        And this poz condemns ?!
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 1 September 2020 19: 39 New
                        +2
                        He feels bad there, most likely, that's what he condemns everything in the world laughing
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 September 2020 19: 56 New
                        +3
                        Something pulled you into sentimentality
                      6. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 1 September 2020 20: 00 New
                        +3
                        Anton, there are reasons for everything)). By the way, I noted at Shpakovsky's - in my opinion, Stalin was right that he took gold from the Republicans. In contrast to Khrushchev and Brezhnev, who for free gave weapons, advisers to someone who was not clear, and built platinum for vague promises to embark on an anti-imperialist path of development. It’s when our own people lived it’s not clear how ..
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 September 2020 20: 07 New
                        +3
                        1. Well, I will not flirt
                        2. Then there was still no concept of "a country that embarked on a course of socialist development"
                      8. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 1 September 2020 20: 11 New
                        +2
                        Under Khrushchev and Brezhnev? There were. Under Stalin - yes, anyone who recognized the Communist Party as legal were welcomed laughing
                      9. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 September 2020 20: 30 New
                        +3
                        I think that Stalin measured the concept of "ours and mine" in one direction, and his followers in the other.
                      10. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 1 September 2020 20: 49 New
                        +3
                        Quite right)) Followers of Stalin - they are rather conventional followers laughing
  • VIP
    VIP 1 September 2020 13: 42 New
    +1
    I agree: the film is valid. I couldn't read after the movie, it seemed gray
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 31 August 2020 17: 31 New
    +4
    How did the rats breed and "roam" in search of food?
  • VLR
    31 August 2020 15: 23 New
    +9
    Yes, here I did not specify that not all the cavalrymen gathered under the command of Sobieski were precisely the "winged hussars" (who went "on the edge", breaking the line).
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 31 August 2020 17: 28 New
    +5
    Viktor Nikolaevich, as always with a good addition. True Valery was lowered from the clouds to the sinful earth
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 31 August 2020 17: 23 New
    +7
    Valery, I swallowed your story like a novel. And now the summary: "tasty, but not enough. I want more tasty"
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 31 August 2020 21: 00 New
    +5
    Meanwhile, thanks, Valery! I didn't learn anything new, but it was interesting to read!