Military Review

The outcome of the likely confrontation between "Peter the Great" and "Zamvolt". Hoping for an anti-missile "umbrella"

83

Undoubtedly, a short prognostic material by the American military expert Harold Hutchinson about the details of a hypothetical confrontation between the TARKR pr. 1144.2 "Peter the Great" and one of the three promising stealthy destroyers of the "Zumwalt" class, which filled news sections of numerous American and Western European military-analytical portals in early August 2020, provided very high-calorie food for thought for both the Russian expert communities and hundreds of bloggers and observers who are at least a little aware of the technical parameters of anti-aircraft missile systems (including the electronic architecture of guidance systems and flight technical parameters of interceptor missiles, as well as the parameters of detection / target designation and illumination radars) and anti-ship missile systems, which these unique surface combat ships of the 1st rank have.


The anti-missile potential of "Peter the Great" neglected by "expert" Harold Hutchinson


And this is not at all surprising, because in the course of working out the above analytical review, Mr. Hutchinson came to the final opinion that “the combat stability of the heavy nuclear missile cruiser pr. 1144.2 Peter the Great in a hypothetical battle with the promising EM DDG-1000 in the ocean theater of operations leaves much to be desired the best in connection with the gigantic effective scattering surface of a 250,1-meter hull (about 25-30 thousand sq. m), comparable to the effective reflecting surface of the helicopter carrier / UDC and supposedly transforming the most combat-ready surface ship into a modern stories The Russian Navy has an excellent radio contrast target for 40-60 anti-ship missiles launched from 10-15 four-container modules of the Mk57 universal vertical launchers.

According to Harold Hutchinson, the ultra-small RCS of the DDG-1000 "Zumwalt" destroyer (about 100-150 sq. M.), Achieved through the implementation of reverse blockages of the sides and stem, as well as the use of an angular superstructure of balsa size and a cork tree with a high radio-absorbing coefficient, can reduce the likelihood of hitting "Zamvolt" by means of 20 heavy supersonic anti-ship missiles P-700 "Granit", included in the "strike ammunition" "Peter the Great". Indeed, a decrease in the Zamvolt's RCS to the values ​​of the image intensifier factor of a small patrol boat is capable of several times reducing the range of its detection and capture “for accurate auto-tracking” by means of active radar seeker J / Ka-ranges of anti-ship missiles 3M45 “Granit” (especially against the background of a possible the use by Zamvolt of promising multi-band onboard electronic warfare devices capable of suppressing the receiving path of outdated ARGSN with a low level of noise immunity).

Moreover, the above-mentioned image intensifier (100-150 sq. M.) Will reduce the range of detection and identification of Zamvolt by means of on-board radars of the aiming and search systems PPM Novella-P-38 of Il-38N anti-submarine aircraft to 70-80 km, providing the latter with an opportunity advance access to the launch lines of anti-ship missiles.

Meanwhile, firstly, Mr. Hutchinson did not take into account the fact that today most of the strategic cruise missiles RGM-109E "Tomahawk Block IV" have not yet been re-equipped with the latest active radar seeker of the centimeter X-band IMS-280 and still have the AN / DXQ-1 DSMAC optoelectronic correlation modules. Consequently, the EPR of "Peter the Great" in this case is far from being of paramount importance (in contrast to the optical signature).

Secondly, the so-called military expert Harold Hutchinson demonstrated complete incompetence in the field of tactical and technical parameters of air defense missile defense systems integrated into the combat information and control system of the Peter the Great cruiser. The total target channel of the shipborne anti-aircraft missile systems S-300F "Fort", S-300FM "Fort-M", "Dagger" (2 complexes with two 4-channel PFAR guidance radars K-12-1), as well as 6 combat modules of anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems 3M87 "Kortik" is 56 simultaneously fired aerospace attack weapons, while the total ammunition load of anti-aircraft guided missiles 48N6E / 2 S-300F / FM, 9M330-2 complexes "Dagger" and 9M311K complexes "Dirk" is 366 units.

The above number of target channels and missile interceptors in the ammunition load of Peter the Great is quite enough to intercept a squad of 50-60 RGM-109E Tomahawk Block IV strategic missile launchers (or their anti-ship modification MST, Maritime Strike Tomahawk), even taking into account the involvement tactical deck aviation US Navy decoys type ADM-160C MALD-J for oversaturation of target channels of anti-aircraft missile systems "Peter the Great". As for the possibility of breaking through the anti-missile "umbrella" of "Peter the Great" by performing anti-aircraft maneuvers, neither the anti-ship Tomahawks with the MST index, nor the advertised inconspicuous anti-ship missiles A / RGM-158C LRASM (in the foreseeable future can be adapted for use from naval UPVU Mk 41/57) are incapable of implementing this principle due to the low subsonic flight speed (about 0,9M), which allows anti-aircraft maneuvers with an overload of no more than 8-10G, while 48N6E / E2 anti-aircraft missiles equipped with a gas-jet vector deflection system thrust, capable of intercepting air objects, maneuvering with overloads of 15-17 units.
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  1. pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 18 August 2020 05: 21 New
    29
    According to Harold Hutchinson, the ultra-small RCS of the DDG-1000 "Zumwalt" destroyer (about 100-150 sq. M.), Achieved through the implementation of reverse blockages of the sides and stem, as well as the use of an angular superstructure of balsa size and a cork tree with a high radio-absorbing coefficient, can reduce the likelihood of hitting "Zamvolt" by means of 20 heavy supersonic anti-ship missiles P-700 "Granit", included in the "strike ammunition" "Peter the Great".

    From a height of 15 km, where the "Granite" flies, the Zumvolt will be the same "excellent radio-contrast target"
    1. Evdokim
      Evdokim 18 August 2020 05: 47 New
      37
      Quote: pmkemcity
      From a height of 15 km, where the "Granite" flies, the Zumvolt will be the same "excellent radio-contrast target"

      Interestingly, this balsa-cork wood iron with a high radio-absorbing coefficient will sink like an ordinary ax? Or will it burn like a pile of firewood? what
      1. pmkemcity
        pmkemcity 18 August 2020 06: 16 New
        41
        Quote: Evdokim
        Interestingly, this balsa-cork wood iron with a high radio-absorbing coefficient will sink like an ordinary ax? Or will it burn like a pile of firewood?

        I think that American welders will soon tell about this during the next repair. laughing
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 18 August 2020 06: 36 New
          15
          Quote: pmkemcity
          I think that American welders will soon tell about this during the next repair.

          There will soon be carpenters and cabinetmakers
          1. pmkemcity
            pmkemcity 18 August 2020 10: 50 New
            0
            Quote: abrakadabre
            There will soon be carpenters and cabinetmakers

            They work only with a power tool, moreover, a Chinese one.
            1. abrakadabre
              abrakadabre 18 August 2020 11: 28 New
              +3
              They work only with a power tool, moreover, a Chinese one.
              But they may well smoke. And around sawdust and shavings ...
              1. pmkemcity
                pmkemcity 18 August 2020 11: 38 New
                0
                Quote: abrakadabre
                But they may well smoke.

                Nope! This is out of the question. Everyone there now only smokes electronic cigarettes. How safe are they? I myself have never smoked.
                1. Simargl
                  Simargl 19 August 2020 21: 10 New
                  -2
                  Quote: pmkemcity
                  How safe are they?
                  If you add the beneficial vitamin E - lethal.
      2. Oleg Salov
        Oleg Salov 18 August 2020 15: 39 New
        -1
        It will not drown, a tree, and even less a cork, will not sink, it will burn like a candle.
      3. napalm
        napalm 18 August 2020 20: 20 New
        +2
        Cross the pacific ocean here and there, and prove once again that Tour X was right.
      4. Ros 56
        Ros 56 19 August 2020 07: 00 New
        +1
        In fact, balsa is a tree with a specific gravity of 0,08 g / cm0,2. cub. and up to 0,25 g / cmXNUMX. It is mainly used in aircraft modeling sports, although now it is also used for the manufacture of skis, golf clubs and other sports equipment in combination with glass and carbon fiber. And the very heavy one was used to make boxes for transporting fruits.
        For reference. The specific gravity of pine and linden is in the region of 0,36 - 0,42 g / cm. cub.
        It burns beautifully.
        1. Evdokim
          Evdokim 19 August 2020 07: 47 New
          0
          Quote: Ros 56
          For reference. The specific gravity of pine and linden is in the region of 0,36 - 0,42 g / cm. cub.

          Thanks for the density reference. Question: which is easier to inject? Pine or linden? In chocks for firewood. hi
          1. Ros 56
            Ros 56 19 August 2020 19: 12 New
            0
            Lipu ...., for firewood ....., but for this it is necessary to judge. stop angry lol
            1. Evdokim
              Evdokim 20 August 2020 03: 29 New
              -1
              Quote: Ros 56
              Lipu ...., for firewood ....., but for this it is necessary to judge.

              As for judging, shooting, etc. for linden, beekeepers will support you !!! But it is sawed, and when logging round timber, a lot of things remain, not only stumps and branches. These are the parts I'm talking about.
              1. Ros 56
                Ros 56 20 August 2020 13: 30 New
                +1
                Lipa is generally a gorgeous material for various purposes, but what a fool he gave us cons, that's the question.
                Something in recent years on the poor VO divorced nemeryannom.
                1. Evdokim
                  Evdokim 20 August 2020 14: 12 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Ros 56
                  but what an idiot put us down, that's the question.

                  The answer is simple. These are those who distinguish a tree from a stick, there is no aspen from an ash tree. laughing
    2. user1212
      user1212 18 August 2020 10: 44 New
      -1
      Quote: pmkemcity
      From a height of 15 km, where the "Granite" flies, the Zumvolt will be the same "excellent radio-contrast target"

      This is another question. What Tomahawk anti-ship missiles are currently in service? Do they exist?
      1. Avior
        Avior 18 August 2020 13: 36 New
        +4
        RGM / UGM-109E TLAM-E (Tomahawk Block IV)
        They write that they want to put into service from 2021.
        Universal for engaging mobile targets, the GOS additionally has a passive channel for aiming at a radiation source and an active millimeter-wave radar.
        1. user1212
          user1212 18 August 2020 14: 03 New
          -1
          Quote: Avior
          RGM / UGM-109E TLAM-E (Tomahawk Block IV)
          They write that they want to put into service from 2021.

          This is known, but I'm talking about something else
          now in service
          1. mvg
            mvg 19 August 2020 00: 35 New
            -1
            now in service

            In 2013, the first series of flight tests of the LRASM anti-ship missile system took place. The rocket was launched from a B-1B bomber and confidently hit the target vessel MST 9301. On June 3 of the same year, AGM-158C throw launches were carried out at a ground range from an Mk 41 launcher. / A-2015 Super Hornet. On July 18, 18, the test ship EDD 2016 (former destroyer Paul F. Foster of the Spruance class) fired for the first time LRASM from the Mk 964 launcher.
            1. mvg
              mvg 19 August 2020 00: 41 New
              0
              On January 16 last year, a long-range missile defense system SM-53 (RIM-6) was launched from the American destroyer John Paul Jones (DDG 174). But she did not shoot at an air target, but at a sea target. Flying on a ballistic trajectory, the SM-6 crashed into the retired frigate Reuben James (FFG 57), which quickly sank. This was the first test of the RIM-174 as an anti-ship missile.
      2. Tom Johnson
        Tom Johnson 20 August 2020 02: 24 New
        0
        I would worry more about SM-6 IB with a TBG - they already exist, US Submarines launched the first Hypersonic in October of 2017. Virginia Class.
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 20 August 2020 04: 46 New
          -1
          SM-6 warhead would cause little to nothing damage for a target with the size of battlecruiser
        2. Romka47
          Romka47 21 August 2020 15: 21 New
          0
          Halloween amigo hi sorry sho balakayu in english
    3. smart ass
      smart ass 18 August 2020 16: 42 New
      0
      I can imagine the picture the iron crept up to Pete, released the axes, Pete knocked them down ...
    4. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 18 August 2020 17: 17 New
      +9
      Quote: pmkemcity

      From a height of 15 km, where the "Granite" flies, the Zumvolt will be the same "excellent radio-contrast target"


      At what range will Granite be detected flying at an altitude of 15 km? Possessing the EPR of almost a Commercial Boeing?

      And what are the chances of this Granite being "not shot down"?
  2. Shuttle
    Shuttle 18 August 2020 05: 28 New
    +9
    Hutchinson was noted by the aator, but, having demonstrated his high erudition, he definitely did not finish the article. What is the conclusion?
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 18 August 2020 05: 35 New
      14
      Quote: Shuttle
      Hutchinson was noted by the aator, but, having demonstrated his high erudition, he definitely did not finish the article. What is the conclusion?

      Yes, a simple conclusion ... such a "duel" is not even theoretically possible. So, there is nothing to drive empty.
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 18 August 2020 10: 26 New
        +3
        "Hit first, Freddie"! lol
  3. Thrifty
    Thrifty 18 August 2020 05: 40 New
    17
    Eugene hi I see, on the sly a military fantasy analytics appeared on the site lol Zumwalt will have enough and a couple of missiles for the eyes, its electric power plant and "give out" the ship in case of conflict. So, the Yankees can dream for a long time and persistently, but the Zumwalts by and large are not exactly warships, they are super-expensive armed concepts of warships of the future, the probable future. ...
    1. Cowbra
      Cowbra 18 August 2020 05: 53 New
      +6
      Quote: Thrifty
      these are super-expensive armed concepts of future-probable future warships

      What? Armed? Show me at least one video of Zyama's shooting - from anything! The fact of the matter is that UNARMED. I don't know what the problem is there, but the fact that none of the three never fired, incl. missile - so they have a complete ass. In principle, no one will accept a warship without firing, these have accepted
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 18 August 2020 06: 39 New
        12
        Show me at least one video of Zyama's shooting - from anything! The fact of the matter is that UNARMED.
        They have at least regular small arms for the team. flare launchers, again. wassat
        I do not know what the problem is, but the fact that none of the three never fired, incl. missile - so they have a complete ass.
        Perhaps they fear that the balsa superstructure will catch fire from the "exhaust" of launching missiles wassat bully
      2. jovanni
        jovanni 18 August 2020 13: 25 New
        +5
        I do not know what the problem is, but the fact that none of the three never fired, incl. missile - so they have a complete ass.

        Duc firemen and forbid, I suppose! The cork tree, it is. You start firing the racket, it will still blaze ...
      3. PSih2097
        PSih2097 18 August 2020 15: 33 New
        0
        Quote: Cowbra
        I do not know what the problem is, but the fact that none of the three never fired, incl. missile - so they have a complete ass.

        well, one shot with an LRLAP from Lockheed Martin from either of the two guns will cost about $ 800 (which is slightly cheaper than an "ax" for "lam with something"), but a shot from BAE Systems will cost around 000 - 50 $ 000, that's why they don't shoot ...
    2. venik
      venik 18 August 2020 08: 55 New
      +2
      Quote: Thrifty
      So, the Yankees can dream for a long time and persistently, but by and large, the Zumwalts are not really warships, they are super expensive armed concepts of future warships - a probable future. ...

      =======
      good I dare add: Which Yankees themselves do not know what to do with them and what to do with them? For the concept of their combat use has not been developed yet! As a result, they also ended up with a "suitcase without a handle" - that is, ships, and what they are for, where and most importantly HOW to use them - it is completely incomprehensible!
  4. passerby
    passerby 18 August 2020 06: 05 New
    11
    One thing is interesting to me. If we have already begun to consider a spherical horse in a vacuum, i.e. a one-on-one duel between Zumwalt and Peter, then what value will stealth play in such a duel if both use the radar, the inclusion of which immediately turns stealth into fiction. This is, firstly, and secondly, if we are considering such a duel, then why do we not take into account the use of tactical nuclear weapons? For example, I see a duel like this. As soon as the Zumwalt turns on the radar, its approximate location ceases to be a secret and this location is attacked by a Part of the "Granites" with a nuclear warhead, after that, the jamming situation in the area where Zumwalt is located becomes acceptable for the use of Granites (which go in the second wave) in conventional equipment , and Zumvolt loses its stealth as a result of exposure to the damaging factors of a nuclear explosion, plus it loses air defense radars. At the same time, the speed of the Granites allows you to hit Zumwalt before the Zumwalt's Tomogavks reach Peter, so in the worst case, if Peter's missile defense does not intercept all the Tomogavks, there will be a combat draw, Peter and Zumwalt will sink each other.
    1. pmkemcity
      pmkemcity 18 August 2020 06: 29 New
      +9
      Quote: passerby
      One thing is interesting to me

    2. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 18 August 2020 06: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: passerby
      what value will stealth play in such a duel if both use the radar

      Americans are guessing at their only strategy of "kill with impunity." All the use of stealth comes down to one thing: a third-party control center - a strike from afar. There will be no control center for Zamvolt and there will be no one to "save his ass", he will even be afraid to warm up the bean soup in his galley.
    3. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 18 August 2020 07: 02 New
      +2
      Quote: passerby
      Once Zumvolt turns on the radar, its approximate location is no longer a mystery

      Even if it doesn't. As soon as Zu launches his tomahawks, he is still visible.
      1. Avior
        Avior 18 August 2020 13: 58 New
        +2
        and it depends on what range it starts up.
    4. Maxim364364
      Maxim364364 18 August 2020 10: 31 New
      +4
      Peter is not badly armored, it was built in an era when missiles were large and heavy, so two dozen axes may not be enough to drown him, but an invisible American iron and granite alone will be more than enough.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 18 August 2020 11: 31 New
        +1
        but the invisible American iron and one granite will be more than enough.
        There is a suspicion that not even a hit will be enough, but an explosion near the skin. Although I could be wrong.
        1. Whiteidol
          Whiteidol 18 August 2020 12: 14 New
          +1
          Or maybe there is such an option that "Granite" will pierce it through and through and not explode?
          1. abrakadabre
            abrakadabre 18 August 2020 12: 18 New
            +2
            Quote: Whiteidol
            Or maybe there is such an option that "Granite" will pierce it through and through and not explode?

            This specialists can answer you. If only a shock fuse, it can. And if there is a forced detonation according to some other parameters, then most likely not. Well, no one canceled the undermining of tactical nuclear weapons. In this case, right through or not through is no longer critical. Bo Zummi is not a battleship.
          2. Ponchik78
            Ponchik78 18 August 2020 20: 05 New
            +3
            Given the size of Granite, this will not make it much easier for Zumvolt)
          3. Vlad.by
            Vlad.by 19 August 2020 09: 42 New
            0
            The saddest thing for Zyama is that this will most likely be enough. (((
          4. Zefr
            Zefr 19 August 2020 18: 48 New
            +1
            There is a chance that the granite will hit the frying pan in the galley after breaking through the sheathing without exploding. Then it will definitely explode.
      2. paul3390
        paul3390 18 August 2020 14: 59 New
        +2
        Especially when you consider that Zummi has launchers along the sides, and how they react to a Granite hit - God only knows ..
    5. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 18 August 2020 15: 08 New
      +5
      If they search for each other with their radars without aviation, they will discover each other shortly before the possibility of using naval artillery. The round radio horizon will not allow you to see each other earlier, granites and tomahawks may no longer be needed.
      Peter the Great really has helicopters on board, he can detect the Zumvolt earlier.
    6. Grits
      Grits 18 August 2020 16: 41 New
      +6
      Quote: passerby
      Peter and Zumwalt will sink each other.

      If we compare the displacement, then, Peter has a much higher chance of surviving after being hit by several axes than Zumvolt after hitting only one Granite. Which, without even exploding, will blow this wooden miracle of carpenter's thought into small chips. So there will be no draw.
  5. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 18 August 2020 06: 52 New
    +1
    so-called military expert Harold Hutchinson has demonstrated complete incompetence
    What can you do, your (American) simply must be better, better quality, more combat-ready. Why consider any performance characteristics of the air defense-missile defense of the Russian cruiser if "it says luminevo, then luminevo".
  6. Doccor18
    Doccor18 18 August 2020 07: 14 New
    11
    A funny comparison of ships from different eras. Peter the Great was founded in 1986, adopted in 1998. If it were not for the leapfrog in the country, they would have been accepted in 1991-1992.
    The Zumwalt was launched in 2013, adopted in 2018 and to this day is not ready for a combat campaign. These ships are 20 years apart! So you can compare the Abrams with the T-55, the MiG-29 with the F-35 ...
    However, for the Americans they know that the previous generation of Soviet technology can make the modern one. The advantage of Zumwalt is only in "invisibility", in everything else - the seams ...
  7. parusnik
    parusnik 18 August 2020 07: 44 New
    +1
    This is how many lards of money they will shoot during a duel .. smile
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 18 August 2020 16: 27 New
      0
      Small country budget))) laughing
  8. Lord_Bran
    Lord_Bran 18 August 2020 08: 00 New
    +5
    Let's start with the fact that Zumvolt stupidly will not sail anywhere. This ship costs so much that no one in their right mind would send it once-for-once. The lack of a developed air defense and missile defense system makes it vulnerable even to conventional aircraft. So they will never meet. Will not swim. They will sink earlier.
    1. Fibrizio
      Fibrizio 18 August 2020 11: 36 New
      +3
      Of course, it will not float once at a time.
      It will include 15 destroyers, a couple of dozen smaller ships and a couple of aircraft carriers. And this will be a small part of their fleet, which is many times more powerful than any grouping that we can collect even in a month at one point.
      In general, there were articles on this site where the expediency of building the Russian Federation now a fleet was examined.
      I agree with the opinion in those articles. Now this is an almost senseless waste of money, so that there would be parity, you have to spend 20 years ALL defense money only on ships. Or due to the weakness of the fleet, they will be blown to dust.
      1. user1212
        user1212 19 August 2020 06: 00 New
        +1
        Quote: Fibrizio
        I agree with the opinion in those articles. Now this is an almost senseless waste of money, so that there would be parity, you have to spend 20 years ALL defense money only on ships. Or due to the weakness of the fleet, they will be blown to dust.

        There are no idiots to fight a nuclear country. Well, there are none, at all. Even with the unfortunate Iran, which is attacking American military bases with impunity. The war is now being fought in the squares and on social networks
      2. your1970
        your1970 21 August 2020 01: 24 New
        0
        Quote: Fibrizio
        It will include 15 destroyers, a couple of dozen smaller ships and a couple of aircraft carriers.

        Well, what for him in such a CROWD (!!!) invisibility - they will all shine on the radars, the whole bunch ...
        Nonsense - you can't alone, in a bunch - you can see
  9. EvilLion
    EvilLion 18 August 2020 08: 16 New
    +2
    I bet on the whale, it's bigger.
  10. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 18 August 2020 11: 13 New
    0
    Hutchinson, on his expert floating couch, dreams of the ocean. But for now he is content with absorbing burgers and cola in the process of paperwork.
  11. AAK
    AAK 18 August 2020 11: 16 New
    +3
    The article, to put it mildly, is not thought out ... some kind of compilation of a hypothetical "boy's showdown" comb-on-comb "...
    If you already write, then first set the conditions - and in what place and under what circumstances can such a duel take place? As in my opinion, it cannot happen at all ...
    According to the author, the lonely "proud" Zamvolt swims into the western part of the Barents Sea and, according to the satellite, bears out "Axes" or "LRASMs" at "Peter", 50-60 pieces in one gulp for 10-15 minutes, after which it valiantly waits "otvetki" with 24 "Granites", which they are preparing to shoot with their "Standards" ... In general - a plot for Martisyushnaya alternative historical fiction ...
    In my opinion, it is the main enemy for our NKs, incl. and for "Peter", this is not the enemy's NK, but aviation (both coastal and aircraft carrier) and KR / RCC with PALKR, and maybe even torpedoes from them. In this regard, it is necessary to consider the situation from the point of view of where at the moment of the strike the "Peter" is located, in which ship group and what is he with the aviation group, incl. anti-submarine, cover?
    Now about whether "Peter" is capable of repelling a massive "star" missile strike?
    I believe that repelling 50-60 cruise missiles within 10-15 minutes is a problem for the "Petr" with its current air defense system for the following reasons:
    - the 366 missiles mentioned by the author on "Petra" are distributed between 4 complexes, incl. most of them are part of 2 complexes - "Dagger" and "Kortik", which are related to the short-range / short-range SAM / ZRAK.
    - "Peter" does not have a surveillance and targeting radar with spaced HEADLIGHTS in its air defense systems; very difficult conditions for the control of enemy missiles and the guidance of their missiles.
    - in the arsenal of "Peter" until now there is no UAV for early detection of enemy air defense systems, ie. the range of own detection of means of attack is limited by the radio horizon. Therefore, for the detection and target designation of alien SVN, either information from coastal radars and escort ships, or from an A-50 / A-100 aircraft is needed;
    1. Devil13
      Devil13 18 August 2020 16: 20 New
      +1
      Well, the UAV is not a UAV, but there are turntables, and I think their duty is spelled out, as well as the provision of illumination from them, not counting the constantly hanging MRC in orbit, which gives out to our CR.
      About air defense, specifically Peter has the best air defense in all the remnants of our fleet. And in this case, the presence of a large number of near / middle zone complexes is a plus, not a minus - they follow the radio horizon and at the expense of their speeds. So in case of a surprise attack, they will work, not the s-300.
      And as for the long-range one - it takes illumination from a turntable, aircraft, or high-flying targets at a good range, but yes, a modern Afar would not hurt (look at Ustinov's pictures, an interesting upgrade option), as well as the illumination station directly from it.
  12. Fibrizio
    Fibrizio 18 August 2020 11: 27 New
    +1
    All these discussions are from the realm of fantasy, since these weapons have never met in a real confrontation. The fact that Peter the Great will miss a part of the CD, I'm almost sure there are no miracles, but how many he will knock down is an interesting question.
    And comparing a ship that is 30 years old with a supermodern one is strange to say the least.
    And in general, the battles of ships are a thing of the past. Here is one bare theory, both before the start of both the First and Second World War.
  13. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 18 August 2020 12: 24 New
    0
    The opposition between a destroyer and an aircraft-carrying cruiser ?! This is in the sense of Big Petya sneaking around the Pacific Ocean alone, and towards him a zumvolt-megawatt ?! What nonsense, God forgive me ...
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 18 August 2020 14: 14 New
      +5
      Peter the Great is a heavy nuclear missile cruiser. Do not confuse with Kuznetsov.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 19 August 2020 08: 33 New
        0
        I'm sorry. I will improve)
  14. Devil13
    Devil13 18 August 2020 16: 06 New
    +6
    Expert? Tomahawks that do not have a single version of the anti-ship missile system that is in service? He's my beer holder, not an expert.
    And yes, the old ARGSN did not give a damn about interference, not interference, on his ZAK (if they are on this trough, I don't remember), in general, on everything. Granites are of course outdated, but this is still an analog rocket for use in nuclear war, and not a delicate, very expensive "miracle" of the LRASM type. It's a good miracle - without lighting, it will be very fun to shoot down 50 of these missiles in the near zone, but they are subsonic (like all US anti-ship missiles) and are time-consuming. But the time to shoot down a crowd of granites that will leave the zone of illumination with EM, as soon as he sees them (beyond the horizon, if someone does not understand) and then leave him about 10 seconds to choose the options for death.
    I understood a joke, funny.
    Let’s omit what is measured against a ship designed more than 40 years ago.
    Let him measure himself after modernization. If afar radars are delivered to him with the possibility of initial illumination directly from the main station (like Aejis) and our missiles with args - Rip stupidly, I don't know how many missiles will be needed in a salvo to overwhelm him. And in response (according to bmpd) 80+ calibers (for fans of subsonic "creeping" missiles) or Onyxes or hypersonic presents will fly, which the Opponent cannot shoot down even a dozen.
  15. tarakan
    tarakan 18 August 2020 18: 21 New
    0
    Quote: pmkemcity
    Quote: abrakadabre
    But they may well smoke.

    Nope! This is out of the question. Everyone there now only smokes electronic cigarettes. How safe are they? I myself have never smoked.

    Kurilshik with experience, complete bullshit, my finger hurt when he shook off the ashes laughing
  16. tarakan
    tarakan 18 August 2020 18: 23 New
    0
    Quote: user1212
    Quote: pmkemcity
    From a height of 15 km, where the "Granite" flies, the Zumvolt will be the same "excellent radio-contrast target"

    This is another question. What Tomahawk anti-ship missiles are currently in service? Do they exist?

    And minus for what ??? (I suppose that the ax is not an anti-ship missile)
  17. tarakan
    tarakan 18 August 2020 18: 29 New
    +2
    Quote: Whiteidol
    Or maybe there is such an option that "Granite" will pierce it through and through and not explode?

    You will get a free porthole, even 2
  18. beer-youk
    beer-youk 18 August 2020 18: 39 New
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Salov
    It will not drown, a tree, much less a cork,

    To be precise in the wording, it ... does not sink even after a direct hit from a missile with a nuclear warhead
  19. IC
    IC 18 August 2020 19: 29 New
    +3
    Peter the Great was a successful project for its time. The project was unsuccessful due to the extreme discrepancy between the price and the fighting qualities. The project is closed. All other considerations are purely entertaining. The Russian surface fleet has no real possibility of serious opposition to the American one.
  20. Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 18 August 2020 19: 49 New
    +2
    In general, these are zhurnalyug fantasies. "Peter the Great; - a ship sharpened to fight surface ships." Zamvolt "is a ship sharpened to fight coastal targets. It is not intended for duels with our cruisers. The Yankees have aircraft carriers for this. "Nimitz") against our missile cruiser would be interesting to make out. And these fantasies like "the fight of an elephant with a whale" for fools.
  21. Imperial Technocrat
    Imperial Technocrat 18 August 2020 22: 47 New
    0
    Peter will smudge Zamvolt into small pieces. Well, Western propogandons are a common thing
  22. Freedim
    Freedim 19 August 2020 00: 31 New
    +1
    Well, something like this:
  23. Scorp 1981
    Scorp 1981 19 August 2020 02: 09 New
    +1
    why Peter ?!) It turns out Nakhimov = Zirconchik = 8 + mach vs gumnuuld 1000 pff))) I think he will have enough onyx !!!
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 19 August 2020 20: 28 New
      0
      If the enemy aircraft allows it, then yes. For some reason, we forget that for NATO ships, the fight against enemy surface ships is a purely secondary task. The main enemy of the ship is the plane.
  24. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 19 August 2020 10: 22 New
    +1
    We have already discussed such a fight for a couple of weeks. In the summer, in good weather, Peter the Great will be able to fight an order of magnitude higher in seaworthiness in the winter in NEA. Drive Zumwalt to NEA in winter, and then we'll see if he will perform combat missions. The last exercises with an aircraft carrier in NEA showed the inability AUG to carry out a combat mission in any weather conditions. AUG had to go much further south to launch the aircraft. The weather is always for us from history.
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 19 August 2020 20: 25 New
      +1
      What should aircraft carriers do in the North? In WWII, it is clear that the allies led caravans to Murmansk, but now why? They can also provide air support to the troops in northern Norway from more southern regions.
  25. Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone 19 August 2020 11: 27 New
    0
    The outcome of the likely confrontation between "Peter the Great" and "Zamvolt"

    ... to the delight of the Chinese
  26. RealPilot
    RealPilot 19 August 2020 13: 12 New
    0
    Quote: abrakadabre
    They work only with a power tool, moreover, a Chinese one.
    But they may well smoke. And around sawdust and shavings ...


    Well, yes, they now have "legalize" wassat smoking can be quite tolerant ...
    And cook "carefully" under Bob Marley bully
  27. Tom Johnson
    Tom Johnson 20 August 2020 02: 19 New
    0
    B-1's with LRASM will put her on the bottom.
    1. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 20 August 2020 07: 43 New
      0
      B-1's are such easy prey