Military Review

A rare case of acceleration of work: the terms of putting into service the UAV "Okhotnik" are shifted

179

During his report to Russian President Vladimir Putin, the head of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Yuri Slyusar spoke about the ongoing work on the creation of the first Russian strike drone "Okhotnik". Recall that earlier the drone began to be created within the framework of the S-70 program, which is why to this day the promising UAV is called the S-70 Okhotnik.


According to Yuri Slyusar, the Russian Ministry of Defense has set the task of maximally shortening the timing of the R&D (experimental and design work). This, according to the head of the UAC, will allow the delivery of the first strike UAVs "Okhotnik" to the Russian Aerospace Forces in early 2024.

Recall that earlier, speaking about the timing, the persons responsible for the implementation of the project named 2025 as the year of the first heavy attack-type drone being put into service.

In fact, this is a rare case for today when work on advanced weapons in our country is accelerating.

At the moment, it is known that the first unmanned attack vehicle "Hunter" will enter service with a conventional (not flat) nozzle. At the same time, it was previously reported that a variant of the modernized version of the "Hunter" is being considered, when it can receive as a new aviation engine and flat nozzle. The main emphasis in this case will be on the implementation of the technology of reduced visibility.

One of the missions of the Okhotnik UAV is to break through the enemy's air defense. At the same time, as flight tests have already shown, a heavy attack drone is capable of operating in conjunction with a new generation Su-57 fighter. Thus, the promising Russian fighter will be able to act as a command center for several S-70 Okhotnik UAVs, which will significantly increase the efficiency of the combat operation.
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  1. mdsr
    mdsr 3 August 2020 20: 38
    -35 qualifying.
    According to Yuri Slyusar, the Russian Ministry of Defense has set the task of maximally shortening the timing of the R&D (experimental and design work). This, according to the head of the UAC, will allow the delivery of the first strike UAVs "Okhotnik" to the Russian Aerospace Forces in early 2024.
    Acceleration so acceleration belay I would even say fast and furious fellow Getting the first strike drone in 2024 is a SHAME for a country like Russia. Even unfortunate Turkey has long been in service with attack drones of various classes, and actively uses them in various conflicts, and even successfully sells them abroad. I'm not even talking about countries like China or Israel. They have a whole line of attack and reconnaissance drones of various classes have been in service for a long time and new ones are being developed.
    1. nPuBaTuP
      nPuBaTuP 3 August 2020 20: 43
      31
      It's not just an attack drone ... it's a heavy class drone ...
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 3 August 2020 20: 49
        +6
        Like this? Landing an aircraft carrier and refueling in the air? By the way, this project has already been closed within the framework of the US Army.
        1. Seaflame
          Seaflame 3 August 2020 21: 53
          +1
          And with a flat nozzle?
          1. mdsr
            mdsr 3 August 2020 22: 04
            -7
            Quote: Seaflame
            And with a flat nozzle?

            No no, cartoons are from Hollywood smile
      2. Greg Miller
        Greg Miller 3 August 2020 22: 37
        +8
        Quote: nPuBaTuP
        It's not just an attack drone ... it's a heavy class drone ...
        What's the difference?
        In 2010, we were promised that from 2013 the Russian Air Force would start receiving serial T-50 (Su-57) ... Now it is 2020 ... How many serial Su-57s did the Russian Air Force receive? The answer is simple - NOT ONE !!! And with the S-70 it will be exactly the same, in 2023 the deadlines will be postponed to 2027 or 2030 ... We have already been promised so much that they should promise one more time?
        1. Grazdanin
          Grazdanin 3 August 2020 23: 12
          -10 qualifying.
          C70 unclear purpose of the UAV, for what purposes it is not clear. From the series they do everything and we do. Even if it is brought to mind, a maximum of 10 pieces will be released. It looks more like a technology demonstrator.
          We need massive, cheap shock-reconnaissance UAVs. Our Predator A / B counterparts.
          The United States is in no hurry to build a UAV with a flying wing scheme en masse. The same RQ-170 is estimated at 10 pieces. The rest of the projects with a flying wing are closed and have lost the competitions.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 4 August 2020 20: 29
            0
            Quote: Grazdanin
            cheap shock and reconnaissance UAVs. Our Predator A / B counterparts.


            I personally think that all these flying machines (with the flight and tactical characteristics of aircraft from the First World War) unmanned Predator / Anka / Bayraktar class in a more or less serious conflict are simply useless and the losses in Libya only confirm this. There is no special sense in such hefty devices and in shock in combined arms combat. But scouts need small and ultra-small.
        2. NEOZ
          NEOZ 4 August 2020 12: 40
          -5
          Quote: Greg Miller
          And with the S-70 it will be exactly the same, in 2023 the deadlines will be postponed to 2027 or 2030 ... We have already been promised so much that they should promise one more time?

          Why do you need C70? what tasks will he solve?
        3. ver_
          ver_ 4 August 2020 17: 54
          -2
          ... you have to hurry slower ..
      3. kris_67
        kris_67 4 August 2020 13: 31
        0
        The Su57 is also not just an airplane, but a fifth generation fighter, and this does not prevent it from being unfinished for more than 5 years.
    2. Wedmak
      Wedmak 3 August 2020 20: 44
      23
      Although Russia joined the drone race a little late, do not compare Hunter with Turkish ones, the famous Bayraktars were not even close to ours.
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 3 August 2020 20: 52
        -8
        Quote: Wedmak
        famous Bayraktars did not even stand next to ours.

        Naturally, one of these UAVs is supplied by hundreds to the domestic army and is exported, while the other, in a single copy, performs test flights.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 4 August 2020 12: 41
          -7
          Quote: Grazdanin
          Naturally, one of these UAVs is supplied by hundreds to the domestic army and is exported,

          Why RF UAV of this class?
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 4 August 2020 20: 32
          0
          Pieces of 100-120 Bfyraktars were made in total, hardly much more. Not less than 20-22 units - combat losses only in conflict zones ...
      2. mdsr
        mdsr 3 August 2020 20: 56
        -14 qualifying.
        Quote: Wedmak
        Although Russia joined the drone race too late

        Let's guess. Perhaps this was due to the sanctions of the State Department? smile ... Ali just yay ... did they interfere?
        Quote: Wedmak
        do not compare the Hunter with the Turkish ones, the famous Bayraktars did not even stand next to ours.
        Frankly, I'm even surprised that you compared the Hunter with Bayraktar, and not with the handicraft Lego drones made from Chinese components that regularly launch bearded kulibins from Idlib province across Khmeimim. There are no Turkish Anoks or numerous other heavy drones from other countries in the world. laughing
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 3 August 2020 21: 04
          10
          I'm even surprised that you compared the Hunter with Bayraktar, and not with handicraft Lego drones from Chinese components

          How you like to find fault with words. You mentioned Turkey with its hundreds of drones, so I mentioned the most famous of them. There are not that many jet drones actually. And those made in the form of a flying wing can be counted on one hand. But you started comparing turboprop with jet.
          Chezh then did not mention the Altius being developed by the Russian Federation? He's more suited to Anka's class, isn't he?
        2. sivuch
          sivuch 4 August 2020 09: 11
          0
          Anki did not show themselves very well.
          And there really are no other heavy UAVs similar to the C-70.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 4 August 2020 20: 34
            0
            Exactly. But we don't have a 500-horsepower motor in the series either. Therefore, the series Yak-152 and Altius stalled.
        3. NEOZ
          NEOZ 4 August 2020 12: 43
          -4
          Quote: mdsr
          Let's guess. Perhaps this was due to the sanctions of the State Department?

          did not guess .... just the "hunter" UAV is not a priority in the supply of weapons.
          Quote: mdsr
          There are no Turkish Anoks or numerous other heavy drones from other countries in the world.

          you confuse the end with the means ...
      3. Professor
        Professor 3 August 2020 21: 00
        -20 qualifying.
        Quote: Wedmak
        Although Russia joined the drone race a little late, do not compare Hunter with Turkish ones, the famous Bayraktars are even nearby did not stand with our.

        Exactly. They don't stand, they fly and fight.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 3 August 2020 21: 07
          13
          Oh .. have you found a word to hook on too? Our Eagles are also actively used in Syria, so what?
          1. Professor
            Professor 3 August 2020 21: 08
            -6
            Quote: Wedmak
            Oh .. have you found a word to hook on too? Our Eagles are also actively used in Syria, so what?

            Drums?
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 3 August 2020 21: 16
              +7
              The main purpose of the drone is reconnaissance. Both Anka and Bayraktar were at first reconnaissance. It is not difficult to screw an ATGM or similar ammunition to the drone.
              The main thing inside is electronics, surveillance and communication systems. Here we are a little behind. In vain they hoped for imported components.
              And one more BUT: the Hunter has a mass of 25 tons, it is a really big machine. The Turkish do not reach up to 2 tons. And the combat load is appropriate: several tons versus several tens of kilograms.
              1. Grazdanin
                Grazdanin 3 August 2020 21: 26
                +5
                Bayraktar has a maximum take-off weight of 650 kg. It is simply impossible to compare him with the Hunter, completely different classes.
                Its counterparts from the USA RQ-170, Boeing X-48, Boeing X-45, X-47 A / B, from Europe nEUROn, Taranis. Iran and China have something.
                1. sivuch
                  sivuch 4 August 2020 09: 14
                  -1
                  You yourself know that the X-47 program is closed. NYAZ, Taranis and Neuron too (maybe I am wrong). The rest were initially experimental.
                  1. Grazdanin
                    Grazdanin 4 August 2020 09: 52
                    -3
                    Yes I know. As well as the Hunter will be closed. Dead-end branch, that's what I'm writing about. Why repeat mistakes after the West, I do not understand. The US has concentrated on relatively cheap, mass-produced UAVs in a "normal" scheme. Why we do not follow this scheme is not clear. Tu 300 as an example, increase the size, make an aircraft takeoff and landing, supply modern avionics, a more efficient engine, etc.
                    1. sivuch
                      sivuch 4 August 2020 10: 07
                      -3
                      Maybe not. There is no mass strike stealth similar to the F-35 in Russia and is not yet expected (the Su-57 is too small and they will be busy with air defense tasks and gaining superiority). Therefore, as a means of breaking through the S-70 air defense,
                      1. Grazdanin
                        Grazdanin 4 August 2020 10: 13
                        -2
                        The S70 will be at least one third more expensive than the Su-57. There are simply not many of them. To break through the air defense, a massive UAV flying at ultra-low altitude is needed.
                      2. sivuch
                        sivuch 4 August 2020 10: 29
                        -1
                        Which one is more expensive by a third? One engine, moreover, already worked out, complete absence of life support and rescue systems, a number of systems have already been worked out on the Su-57 - one reduction in price.
                        And mass UAVs are either close or not so cheap.
                      3. Grazdanin
                        Grazdanin 4 August 2020 10: 39
                        -2
                        Quote: sivuch
                        Which one is more expensive by a third?

                        Avionics are more expensive, flying wings in stealth performance are many times more expensive. The savings from the engine and systems for the pilot will instantly be eaten away.
                        For the money, the United States does not export UAVs according to the scheme. The number of released RQ-170s is estimated at about 10 units, the X-47B lost all competitions, although it passed the entire test cycle with refueling and landing on AB. Phantom Ray is the same story.
                      4. sivuch
                        sivuch 4 August 2020 10: 43
                        -1
                        and why should avionics on the Su-70 be more expensive than on the Su-57? Especially when you consider that the tasks of the explosives are not assigned to the Hunter at all. Why is a stealth flying wing more expensive? did someone count it? So far, NYAZ, it is not even known what overloads the aircraft is designed for.
                2. Force
                  Force 4 August 2020 12: 40
                  -1
                  Quote: sivuch
                  Maybe not. There is no mass strike stealth similar to the F-35 in Russia and is not yet expected (the Su-57 is too small and they will be busy with air defense tasks and gaining superiority). Therefore, as a means of breaking through the S-70 air defense,


                  It is not correct to compare the S-70 with the F-35, even as drummers.
                  The S-70 drone weighing 25 tons (the MIG-29 has a smaller one) made according to the patching wing scheme using low-visibility technologies and stuffed with control systems, reconnaissance, etc., will simply be “golden” if not “brilliant”.
                  When air defense breaks through, he can rely only on electronic warfare systems and "stealth", evasion maneuvers can be forgotten, but at the current level of development of air defense systems, the calculation with a high proportion may not be justified.
                  And if there are still enemy fighters in the sky, then the picture is even sadder.
                  For me, the S-70 is more of an "image" project than a tool for effectively solving air defense breakthrough tasks

                  Here are the prospects as a scout who is able to look a little further than other means of intelligence look more realistic ...
                3. sivuch
                  sivuch 4 August 2020 14: 57
                  -1
                  Dear - by comparison with whom? For that matter, the most expensive part of the plane is the crew, its training costs millions of green, and it is difficult to replace. And of course, he will rely on his stealth + electronic warfare + (possibly) towed LC. For a long time, no one really relies on evasive maneuvers. However, no one really knows what kind of maneuverability the Hunter has.
                  And since the incredible enemy has quite a few ZGRLS and practically no meter radar, the calculation may be correct.
                4. Force
                  Force 4 August 2020 15: 54
                  +3
                  Quote: sivuch
                  Dear - by comparison with whom? For that matter, the most expensive part of the plane is the crew, its training costs millions of green, and it is difficult to replace. And of course, he will rely on his stealth + electronic warfare + (possibly) towed LC. For a long time, no one really relies on evasive maneuvers. However, no one really knows what kind of maneuverability the Hunter has.
                  And since the incredible enemy has quite a few ZGRLS and practically no meter radar, the calculation may be correct.


                  Compared to the XQ-58 and its counterparts, which will also have the task of breaking through air defense.
                  But unlike the S-70 (I wouldn't be surprised if its price is comparable to a lightweight 4th generation fighter), the loss of two or even five or more XQs would be acceptable.
                  XQs are relatively cheap, easy to manufacture and can be made quickly and in large quantities compared to the C-70.
                  It seems to me that the very concept of making a heavy, difficult-to-manufacture and expensive drone for breaking through air defense is wrong.
                5. Grazdanin
                  Grazdanin 4 August 2020 17: 20
                  0
                  Quote: Vigore
                  Compared to the XQ-58 and its counterparts, which will also have the task of breaking through air defense.

                  There is even cheaper, UTAP-22 is also from Kratos. The competition for the slave UAVs has started, there will be more options similar to the XQ-58.
                6. sivuch
                  sivuch 5 August 2020 09: 21
                  0
                  Of course, the S-70 will be more expensive than the XQ-58. But the opportunities should also be higher. I have not yet seen a list of equipment for Valkyrie and, frankly, I have no idea what you can stuff there. But it is known that weapons are only small things like SDB and JDAM.
                  Something more solid and punchy, at least like the X-31A / P / PM will not fit there.
                  Although who can argue, this plot also needs to be mastered.
        2. Souchastnik
          Souchastnik 4 August 2020 10: 35
          0
          Why repeat mistakes after the West, I do not understand.

          In the process of performing R&D, new technologies and technical solutions are being tested. Even if the sample is not accepted into service in this guise, a reserve will appear, which will be used in the future. In science, a negative result is also a result.
          Previously, there were also works with a negative result, but with the advent of new technologies, work is resumed. The main thing is EXPERIENCE - the son of difficult mistakes.
          1. Grazdanin
            Grazdanin 4 August 2020 10: 41
            0
            I agree. But why declare that in 24 year it will go into service? Call it a technology demonstrator.
        3. vVvAD
          vVvAD 4 August 2020 17: 09
          -2
          Because they can afford to waste
          relatively cheap, mass-produced UAVs according to the "normal" scheme

          Given our size and the absence of a large UDC and AV fleet, it is impractical both from an economic and a military point of view: this is a conditionally reusable (resource no more than 10 sorties) cruise missile with a meager combat load: from 250 kg of explosives there will be about 100 kg in case the use of bombs (for bantustans) and no more than 50 kg (for countries with not the most modern air defense) - in the case of missiles. Well, or a REP with the same mass. The capabilities of the integrated electronic warfare, if they are - will be very modest - also cannot be used against a high-tech enemy. However, 250 kg is not very much. And all this at a larger size and cost. and yes: you can't even launch it from a destroyer - you need a UDC, AV or an air base.
          The calibers, for example, will deliver warheads weighing 200 kg to the target.
          The concepts and tasks are also different: the Americans are slowly deploying their roller for specific offensive operations, and in the UAV field they play with swarms. And their UAVs are just under these two.
          Our UAV is for instant response to unexpectedly diverse threats that arise - hence the corresponding combat load, the composition of avionics and electronic warfare. And whether there will be a deck modification - time will tell.
          1. vVvAD
            vVvAD 4 August 2020 17: 18
            -2
            And their Skyborg cannot be launched from a destroyer or anything else.
            And whether there will be a deck modification for the Okhotik - time will tell: there will be AB, there will be a deck modification for the SU-57 - then the Hunter will be seated.
          2. Grazdanin
            Grazdanin 4 August 2020 19: 27
            -2
            Quote: vVvAD
            their Skyborg cannot be launched from a destroyer or anything else.

            UTAP-22 is possible, it has a catapult launch. But in general, yes. From where the F35 takes off from there and the slave UAV starts. Light UAVs can be launched from F-15s and transport aircraft. They have the Gremlin project, to create an airborne UAV, i.e. they are launched from a transport plane and returned to it. Flying aircraft carrier.


          3. vVvAD
            vVvAD 4 August 2020 19: 59
            0
            Yes, I know, yes. Although gremlins are a bit different, there are no fundamental problems with aerial launch. Only with such a radius (for the X-58 in the region of 3000 km) it is hardly useful for him.
            Well, transport must be protected.
            It's just their style of war. It is foolish to discuss whether it is good or not: each great power has its own historical characteristics, geographic location, technology.
      4. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 4 August 2020 19: 20
        0
        Quote: vVvAD
        conditionally reusable (resource no more than 10 sorties) cruise missile with a meager combat load: from 250 kg of explosives there will be about 100 kg in case of using bombs


        Various UAVs are made under the Skyborg program. And it's not a fact that Kratos' products will win the competition. The XQ-58 is now just a landmark, as the most famous. There are ready-made weight and light UTAP-22 variants and MQ-25 tankers with 6,8 tons of fuel (which can be converted into a shock version, I think it will raise 2-3 tons of weapons) and fully tested X-47B and airborne Gremlin UAVs. There are dozens of projects, from those in service to purely "paper" ones. We all need to fight this.
        Quote: vVvAD
        Our UAV is for instant response to unexpectedly diverse threats that arise - hence the corresponding combat load, the composition of avionics and electronic warfare.

        I agree absolutely. True, the C70 is not suitable for this, its fate is long-range reconnaissance and strikes in the deep rear of the enemy. The flying wing predisposes to this, and not to destroy the horde of UAVs. In my opinion, you need to make a UAV close to the Tu-300 / Su-17 / MQ-25, with a straight wing, normal design, subsonic, 3-4 tons of payload. We can definitely do this.
  • Professor
    Professor 3 August 2020 21: 27
    -6
    Quote: Wedmak
    The main purpose of the drone is reconnaissance.

    Rave. The main purpose of the drone is to keep the pilot safe. There are also reconnaissance and shock drones, and even kamikaze drones.

    Quote: Wedmak
    Both Anka and Bayraktar were at first reconnaissance. It is not difficult to screw an ATGM or similar ammunition to the drone.

    And what was not screwed in the Russian Federation? Why did the Russian Federation put its pilots in Syria if it was possible to "Screw an ATGM or similar ammunition to the drone?"

    Quote: Wedmak
    The main thing inside is electronics, surveillance and communication systems. Here we are a little behind. In vain they hoped for imported components.

    This is not the main thing, but you are lagging behind for complex reasons.
    However, earlier you wrote that "the famous Bayraktars did not even stand next to ours," and now you are already lagging behind.

    Quote: Wedmak
    And one more BUT: the Hunter has a mass of 25 tons, it is a really big machine. The Turkish do not reach up to 2 tons. And the combat load is appropriate: several tons versus several tens of kilograms.

    The Turkish are fighting, and this one ...
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 3 August 2020 22: 02
      +4
      Quote: Professor
      And what was not screwed in the Russian Federation? Why did the Russian Federation put its pilots in Syria if it was possible to "Screw an ATGM or similar ammunition to the drone?"

      The existing drones have too little combat load compared to front-line bombers; they would take a lot in order for them to be able to solve the tasks that manned aircraft were solving.
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 3 August 2020 22: 07
        -12 qualifying.
        Quote: Lt. air force reserve
        too low combat load

        Is 1,3 tons of guided bombs and missiles not enough?
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Lt. Air Force stock
          Lt. Air Force stock 3 August 2020 23: 12
          +8
          Quote: Grazdanin
          Is 1,3 tons of guided bombs and missiles not enough?

          Yes, not enough, look how many sorties Su-34, Su-24M, Su-25SM made, several thousand during the Syrian war. The same Su 34 can take up to 8 tons of combat load. Cruising speed is about 900 km / h. And the most advanced shock drones to date are 1,3 tons and speeds up to 400 km / h. Not only would the number of sorties increase dramatically, and with this the logistics, there simply would not be enough space at the Latakia airfield for all these drones. And the low speed of the drones would reduce the combat effectiveness, the Su-34 can, even on supersonic, if a target is detected, quickly enter the area of ​​use of the weapon, and the drone would take 2-3 times longer. If there were under a hundred conventional aircraft at the Latakia airfield, then 5 hundreds of drones would be required.
          1. Grazdanin
            Grazdanin 3 August 2020 23: 25
            -9
            Our aircraft are mainly armed with NAR and free-fall bombs, naturally, their consumption is much higher than guided weapons.
            So far, UAVs cannot completely replace front-line manned aviation, I agree.
            Quote: Lt. air force reserve
            low speed of drones would reduce combat effectiveness

            The UAV can be kept constantly in the air, the response time is reduced. Various application tactics.
            Quote: Lt. air force reserve
            present day 1,3 tons and speed up to 400 km /

            Predator C 1,3 tons, speed up to 740 km / h, first flight 2009
          2. Lt. Air Force stock
            Lt. Air Force stock 3 August 2020 23: 43
            +2
            Quote: Grazdanin
            Predator C 1,3 tons, speed up to 740 km / h, first flight 2009

            And there are only 9 aircraft, MQ-9 Reaper 270 for example.
            Quote: Grazdanin
            The UAV can be kept constantly in the air, the response time is reduced. Various application tactics.

            For ammunition and fuel, you still need to return to the base, as well as ground handling, in addition, a lot of UAV operators are needed. In Syria, there were so many targets that UAVs would not have been able to destroy them all quickly, they are good against point targets in hunting mode (for unexplored targets, detected and destroyed), but not against thousands of targets. What's the point that he can patrol for 30 hours, when in 1-2 hours he will use up the ammunition, and you will need to return it.
          3. Grazdanin
            Grazdanin 3 August 2020 23: 57
            -8
            Quote: Lt. air force reserve
            And there are only 9 aircraft, MQ-9 Reaper 270 for example.

            The capabilities of Predator B are more than enough, it makes no sense for them to force it, in 23-24 they will decide on their further development strategy. Now in the US, dozens of types of UAVs are being tested.
            Quote: Lt. air force reserve
            There were so many targets in Syria that UAVs would not be able to quickly destroy them all.

            Yes, I agree. During active battles it was impossible without manned aircraft. But most of the tasks could be taken by the UAV (reconnaissance tasks were partially taken away)
            Quote: Lt. air force reserve
            in addition, a lot of UAV operators are needed.

            Fewer pilots. 3-4 UAVs (if they are not RPVs) can be controlled by 1-2 operators.

            I think the United States will make a heavy UAV with 3-4 tons of weapons. For example, the MQ-25 tanker can transport up to 6800 kilograms of fuel. It is quite possible to make a drum on its basis.
      2. Force
        Force 4 August 2020 11: 44
        +3
        Quote: Lt. air force reserve
        Yes, not enough, look how many sorties Su-34, Su-24M, Su-25SM made, several thousand during the Syrian war. The same Su 34 can take up to 8 tons of combat load. Cruising speed is about 900 km / h. And the most advanced shock drones to date are 1,3 tons and speeds up to 400 km / h. Not only would the number of sorties increase dramatically, and with this the logistics, there simply would not be enough space at the Latakia airfield for all these drones. And the low speed of the drones would reduce the combat effectiveness, the Su-34 can, even on supersonic, if a target is detected, quickly enter the area of ​​use of the weapon, and the drone would take 2-3 times longer. If there were under a hundred conventional aircraft at the Latakia airfield, then 5 hundreds of drones would be required.


        Very controversial statement
        I'll try to argue with you.
        Su-34 and 8 tons of load and cruising at 900 km / h is of course wonderful, but you watch videos from the Ministry of Defense, the same dryers take off with an incomplete combat load, and most of the targets are some kind of ordinary buildings, sheds, hangars, art positions, on which they work out with one or two bombs, for a flight of 1-3 targets (5-6 bombs) and to the base.
        The same conditional ripper can hover over a certain area for almost a day for a flight, they have identified a target - they have worked, they have been loitering further, a new one has been revealed - they have worked, one and a half tons of ammunition on the suspensions is more than enough, and the cost of maintenance (flight) is much cheaper than that of a bomber at comparable efficiency.
        I am 90% sure that more than half of the targets in Syria could have been worked out with conditional Reapers and they were needed there yesterday, and raising the Su-34 (24) for a couple of sheds is like “hammering nails with a microscope”.
      3. NEOZ
        NEOZ 4 August 2020 12: 50
        -5
        Quote: Vigore
        The same conventional ripper can hover over a certain area for almost a day for a flight,

        if not shot down ...
  • NEOZ
    NEOZ 4 August 2020 12: 48
    -5
    Quote: Lt. air force reserve
    The existing drones have too little combat load compared to front-line bombers

    these are the most obvious things ... but some kind of kindergarten in the comments ...
  • NEOZ
    NEOZ 4 August 2020 12: 45
    -6
    Quote: Professor
    Drums?

    why drums?
  • mdsr
    mdsr 3 August 2020 21: 12
    -25 qualifying.
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Wedmak
    Although Russia joined the drone race a little late, do not compare Hunter with Turkish ones, the famous Bayraktars are even nearby did not stand with our.

    Exactly. They don't stand, they fly and fight.

    Professor, oh, and you are now grabbing the minuses from the putriots for evidence of reality fellow They have already overwhelmed me with minuses, from their anger and belief that I am right, no matter how much they want it.
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 3 August 2020 21: 15
      +3
      I hope you keep a journal of pluses and minuses? This is very important, you must take it at the end of the year.
      1. mdsr
        mdsr 3 August 2020 21: 26
        -15 qualifying.
        Quote: Grazdanin
        I hope you keep a journal of pluses and minuses? This is very important, you must take it at the end of the year.

        Sure! This is the most important indicator of the level of the brain putriot. lol And you, I see, do not care at all about the minuses? Yes, you are the main enemy of the "normal" - putriots wink
        1. Thunderbringer
          Thunderbringer 3 August 2020 21: 39
          19
          And you see it burns from the word patriot.
          Like the devils burning incense, I watch.
          1. mdsr
            mdsr 3 August 2020 21: 48
            -18 qualifying.
            Quote: Thunderbringer
            And you see it burns from the word patriot.

            The difference between a putriot and a patriot is the same as between Sharikov and Professor Preobrazhensky. And you, by chance, will not be one of the Putriots, eh? bully
            Quote: Thunderbringer
            Like the devils burning incense, I watch.
            Oh, yes, I confess, I'm not indifferent to them. Well I can't help but laugh at them laughing wink
            1. sivuch
              sivuch 4 August 2020 09: 23
              -4
              The difference between a putriot and a patriot is the same as between Sharikov and Professor Preobrazhensky
              Actually, not only. Oddly enough, putriots are more often technically more literate, and patriots invariably turn to their favorite path - to scold poo.
    2. Professor
      Professor 3 August 2020 21: 16
      -5
      Quote: mdsr
      Quote: Professor
      Quote: Wedmak
      Although Russia joined the drone race a little late, do not compare Hunter with Turkish ones, the famous Bayraktars are even nearby did not stand with our.

      Exactly. They don't stand, they fly and fight.

      Professor, oh, and you are now grabbing the minuses from the putriots for evidence of reality fellow They have already overwhelmed me with minuses, from their anger and belief that I am right, no matter how much they want it.

      We will survive. I "like" when they compare a cardboard prototype with a warring aircraft and admire the cardboard. wassat
      1. mdsr
        mdsr 3 August 2020 21: 39
        -15 qualifying.
        Quote: Professor
        We survive.

        I have no doubt wink
        Quote: Professor
        I "like" when they compare a cardboard prototype with a warring aircraft and admire the cardboard.

        Oh-oh-oh, they don't make such comparisons fellow lol In their brains, both the Su-57 and the Hunter have long defeated all their rivals. You can already start the next MO layout lol
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Heet
          Heet 3 August 2020 22: 01
          +8
          Interestingly, you haven’t kissed comrade "professor" yet?
      2. Heet
        Heet 3 August 2020 21: 57
        13
        You call the flying prototype a cardboard prototype. The top of the nearness.
        I think that people like you and the SU-57 were called cardboard.
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 4 August 2020 00: 17
          14
          Quote: Heet
          You call the flying prototype a cardboard prototype. The top of the nearness.
          I think that people like you and the SU-57 were called cardboard.

          at one time we argued with Prof about the armature, time has shown that Prof is fundamentally wrong ...
          So give a discount to our good old Prof - he needs to somehow implement the emigrant complex)))
          1. Heet
            Heet 4 August 2020 19: 31
            +1
            Here it smells more of senile insanity, and not adequacy))
          2. Professor
            Professor 4 August 2020 21: 16
            -2
            Quote: Albert1988
            at one time we argued with Prof about the armature, time has shown that Prof is fundamentally wrong ...

            Yah? Is Aramata already in service or is he still riding parades with cardboard "armor"?

            Quote: Albert1988
            So give a discount to our good old Prof - he needs to somehow implement the emigrant complex)))

            You are the last who can talk about complexes. hi
            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 4 August 2020 21: 52
              0
              Quote: Professor
              Yah? Is Aramata already in service or is he still riding parades with cardboard "armor"?

              Prof! Honestly! You remember our debates well! Why now disgrace Svidomoleksikon about "cardboard"?
              Quote: Professor
              You are the last who can talk about complexes.

              Alas, dear professor, it is you who are demonstrating the emigrant complex here, consistently and persistently, I don't know what the reason is ...
              1. Professor
                Professor 4 August 2020 22: 05
                -1
                Quote: Albert1988
                Prof! Honestly! You remember our debates well! Why now disgrace Svidomoleksikon about "cardboard"?

                In service or rolling like a concept car? I skated at the parade for a long time, and the thermal imager appeared only now. How so? The engine was also made just now. What engine was you on the parade with? Do not answer. Everything is clear.

                Quote: Albert1988
                Alas, dear professor, it is you who are demonstrating the emigrant complex here, consistently and persistently, I don't know what the reason is ...

                You are the last who can talk about complexes. This is a medical fact. hi
                1. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 4 August 2020 22: 11
                  -1
                  Quote: Professor
                  In service or rolling like a concept car?

                  It passes tests according to the schedule, riding around the ranges, and the parade is one day a year and 4 days of rehearsals ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  I skated at the parade for a long time, and the thermal imager appeared only now. How so?

                  And think and read? The thermal imager did NOT appear - it WAS ORIGINAL, the matrix was only changed from the counterfeit French to ours)))
                  Quote: Professor
                  The engine was also made just now. What engine was you on the parade with?

                  Engine just now! Professor! Stop drinking! The engine X-shaped what it was, and remained so! Another simply will NOT get there, or did she work on pedal traction ?! Professor, what's wrong with you ?! really, it becomes scary from what you write ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  Do not answer. Everything is clear.

                  But I do not understand what is happening to you, Professor! It seems that another person comes directly under your account, in comparison with you 4 years ago - the difference is terrifying!
                  Quote: Professor
                  You are the last who can talk about complexes. This is a medical fact.

                  A medical fact is ascertained by a doctor))) My beloved cousin uncle (by the way, a Jew, like all my uncles) is a practicing psychiatrist, he told me a lot about all kinds of human complexes too))))
                2. Professor
                  Professor 5 August 2020 21: 08
                  0
                  Quote: Albert1988

                  It passes tests according to the schedule, riding around the ranges, and the parade is one day a year and 4 days of rehearsals ...

                  That is, it was not adopted for service. So we will write it down.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  And think and read? The thermal imager did NOT appear - it WAS ORIGINAL, the matrix was only changed from the counterfeit French to ours)))

                  No, it was not. The concept car / tank / aircraft does not have all systems. It is only needed to demonstrate the concept. See the link in the previous post.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Engine just now! Professor! Stop drinking! The engine X-shaped what it was, and remained so! Another simply will NOT get there, or did she work on pedal traction ?! Professor, what's wrong with you ?! really, it becomes scary from what you write ...

                  You are the second about drinking. Don't judge others by yourself. The question is power. Was the engine native to the ceremonial tanks or, as it turns out now, borrowed?

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  But I do not understand what is happening to you, Professor! It seems that another person comes directly under your account, in comparison with you 4 years ago - the difference is terrifying!

                  Do not get distracted, but try to answer to the point.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  A medical fact is ascertained by a doctor))) My beloved cousin uncle (by the way, a Jew, like all my uncles) is a practicing psychiatrist, he told me a lot about all kinds of human complexes too))))

                  What is the connection between psychiatry and "human complexes"? It is rather psychology, or rather sociology. Nevertheless, it is you who should not reproach others with complexes. I will not develop this topic, otherwise they will be banned again. wassat
                3. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 5 August 2020 22: 11
                  -1
                  Quote: Professor
                  That is, it was not adopted for service. So we will write it down.

                  Not accepted, but where did I say that it will already be accepted? Back in the 15th year, an employee of Uraltransmash told me - earlier than 20105, the armature should not be expected ...
                  It should have been shown in an amicable way not in the 15th, but only in the 20th. But I'm glad - it's good for me as a modeler)))

                  By the way, Professor, if the reinforcement was not really shown in the 15th year, but only in the current year, you would have said until now that there is no reinforcement in iron laughing
                  Quote: Professor
                  You are the second about drinking. Don't judge others by yourself.

                  In no case! I don’t drink and I recommend everyone not to drink! It's just that I can't explain such significant changes in any other way, otherwise I had the displeasure of watching people change greatly under the influence of the green snake ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  Was the engine native to the ceremonial tanks or, as it turns out now, borrowed?

                  Where is it found out? What turns out? On the armatures there was ALWAYS only one dvigun - an X-shaped diesel engine (still an old Soviet development), the other simply will not fit there ... Where did you get this? The only thing that caused the issue with the dvigun was that smart people decided that the X-shaped one was too difficult to manufacture and maintain (against the background of the total machine, oga), so it was necessary to replace it with a V-shaped one. That is why the same "seagull" went, it failed, so the armata with the X-shaped one remains, as before.
                  You, Professor, have always been famous for your knowledge of materiel, but here you demonstrate a blatant lack of information ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  Do not get distracted, but try to answer to the point.

                  It is difficult to answer a person who seems to have a higher education and at the same time comes up to you and asks how the letter "A" is read in the primer ...
                  Quote: Professor

                  What is the connection between psychiatry and "human complexes"? It is rather psychology, or rather sociology.

                  Alas, dear Professor, but sociology has nothing to do with complexes, but psychiatry is very closely related to psychology - in the field of scientific boundaries between these disciplines there is practically no.
                  Quote: Professor
                  Nevertheless, it is you who should not reproach others with complexes.

                  I am not reproaching anyone, just stating. By the way, an important point is that a person who has something really wrong always reacts very painfully to some statements concerning this area. So a heavy smoker will react very painfully to information about the dangers of smoking, a person with a strong coffee addiction reacts painfully to information about a possible coffee environment, etc.
                  Quote: Professor
                  I will not develop this topic, otherwise they will be banned again.

                  As far as I know, they can be banned here for two things - a frank obscenity and a direct insult to the interlocutor ...
                  Professor, I do not believe that you gave any of the above)))
                4. Professor
                  Professor 6 August 2020 21: 18
                  +1
                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Not accepted, but where did I say that it will already be accepted? Back in the 15th year, an employee of Uraltransmash told me - earlier than 20105, the armature should not be expected ...
                  It should have been shown in an amicable way not in the 15th, but only in the 20th. But I'm glad - it's good for me as a modeler)))

                  By the way, Professor, if the reinforcement was not really shown in the 15th year, but only in the current year, you would have said until now that there is no reinforcement in iron

                  And that's what I mean. The tank exists only in the demo version or as a concept tank if you want. By the way, not a bad concept, albeit a dead end.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Where is it found out? What turns out? On the armatures there was ALWAYS only one dvigun - an X-shaped diesel engine (still an old Soviet development), the other simply will not fit there ... Where did you get this? The only thing that caused the issue with the dvigun was that smart people decided that the X-shaped one was too difficult to manufacture and maintain (against the background of the total machine, oga), so it was necessary to replace it with a V-shaped one. That is why the same "seagull" went, it failed, so the armata with the X-shaped one remains, as before.
                  You, Professor, have always been famous for your knowledge of materiel, but here you demonstrate a blatant lack of information ...

                  It turns out that there was no unique engine of its own, but there was still an old Soviet diesel engine developed for another tank. This is normal for a concept tank.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Alas, dear Professor, but sociology has nothing to do with complexes, but psychiatry is very closely related to psychology - in the field of scientific boundaries between these disciplines there is practically no.

                  Complexes are precisely sociology. Ask your relatives for psychiatrists. If they don't answer you, I can explain it on my fingers.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  As far as I know, they can be banned here for two things - a frank obscenity and a direct insult to the interlocutor ...
                  Professor, I do not believe that you gave any of the above)))

                  Moderators have a special love for me.
                5. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 9 August 2020 16: 11
                  -1
                  Quote: Professor
                  And that's what I mean. The tank exists only in the demo version or as a concept tank if you want.

                  There is only one step left from this demo version to a full-fledged series, which has already been officially ordered (138 vehicles, of which 14 are T-80)
                  Quote: Professor
                  By the way, not a bad concept, albeit a dead end.

                  Absolutely not a dead end, because the Americans are now following the same path, and the presence of an uninhabited tower is, rather, our trick.
                  Quote: Professor
                  It turns out that there was no unique engine,

                  Why does it have to be? Unification after all ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  but there was still an old Soviet diesel engine developed for another tank.

                  Firstly, this engine was just developed in the USSR for installation on analogs of the T-14 (boxers-rebels-hammers-notes and object 195), this dvigun, by the way, does not fit into old Soviet "teshki". And then - during the time it was very significantly improved, so that it has already left its Soviet prototype decently both in terms of power, and in terms of reliability and efficiency.
                  Quote: Professor
                  Complexes are precisely sociology. Ask your relatives for psychiatrists. If they don't answer you, I can explain it on my fingers.

                  Well, firstly, I have only one relative, and secondly, you are still mistaken - sociology is very much on the sidelines here ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  Moderators have a special love for me.

                  If there is such a problem - write to me in a personal, they will definitely not be banned there, but I'm always glad to talk to you!
                6. Professor
                  Professor 9 August 2020 20: 06
                  0
                  Quote: Albert1988
                  There is only one step left from this demo version to a full-fledged series, which has already been officially ordered (138 vehicles, of which 14 are T-80)

                  In fact, today it is a concept tank. We will look further.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Absolutely not a dead end, because the Americans are now following the same path, and the presence of an uninhabited tower is, rather, our trick.

                  The Americans are not developing tanks, and this has already happened.


                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Why does it have to be? Unification after all ...

                  New tank, new engine. That is why they have now made his own engine. At least that's what they promise.

                  Quote: Albert1988

                  Firstly, this engine was just developed in the USSR for installation on analogs of the T-14 (boxers-rebels-hammers-notes and object 195), this dvigun, by the way, does not fit into old Soviet "teshki". And then - during the time it was very significantly improved, so that it has already left its Soviet prototype decently both in terms of power, and in terms of reliability and efficiency.

                  He did not go anywhere. Don't tell stories.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Well, firstly, I have only one relative, and secondly, you are still mistaken - sociology is very much on the sidelines here ...

                  So ask him. I can also explain on my fingers.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  If there is such a problem - write to me in a personal, they will definitely not be banned there, but I'm always glad to talk to you!

                  hi
                7. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 9 August 2020 20: 19
                  -1
                  Quote: Professor
                  In fact, today it is a concept tank. We will look further.

                  Then it was no longer a concept - a tank, but a concept family of heavy tracked armored vehicles.
                  Quote: Professor
                  The Americans are not developing tanks.

                  In general, they are developing - they are running a program to create a single platform for future armored vehicles. And what is most interesting is that from now on there will be not 60-ton big Abrams, but light and mobile machines, 40 tons, with a very powerful weapon, the main role in the protection of which will be played by KAZ ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  New tank, new engine.

                  If the new one, in your opinion, is made from scratch, then it is not necessary, if the new one is at least somehow more or less noticeably changed, then yes)
                  Quote: Professor
                  That is why they have now made his own engine.

                  Where is it said? It is said that they did not, but left the one that was before, putting an end to the "intillegent chimeras" about the "seagull")))
                  Quote: Professor
                  He did not go anywhere. Don't tell stories.

                  Where did you get it? Are you up to date with development?
                  Quote: Professor
                  So ask him. I can also explain on my fingers.

                  Necessarily, as I cross)))
                8. Professor
                  Professor 9 August 2020 20: 57
                  0
                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Then it was no longer a concept - a tank, but a concept family of heavy tracked armored vehicles.

                  Other concepts. Even weaker. What's new if there is no engine of its own? A rhetorical question.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  In general, they are developing - they are running a program to create a single platform for future armored vehicles. And what is most interesting is that from now on there will be not 60-ton big Abrams, but light and mobile machines, 40 tons, with a very powerful weapon, the main role in the protection of which will be played by KAZ ...

                  All tanks are armored vehicles, but not all armored vehicles are tanks. The Americans are not developing tanks.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  If the new one, in your opinion, is made from scratch, then it is not necessary, if the new one is at least somehow more or less noticeably changed, then yes)

                  New is not crumpled on old tanks.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Where is it said? It is said that they did not, but left the one that was before, putting an end to the "intillegent chimeras" about the "seagull")))

                  Where? By your officials. The article was on VO.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Where did you get it? Are you up to date with development?

                  Let's link to the match where we'll see how he "left".
                9. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 9 August 2020 21: 07
                  -1
                  Quote: Professor
                  Other concepts. Even weaker. What's new if there is no engine of its own? A rhetorical question.

                  Why weaker in the first place? What's new? The answer is EVERYTHING ...
                  Professor, by God, you sometimes strangle me ... The royal tiger also somehow did not have its own engine (which was just bad in his case), but it was radically different from tiger I)))
                  Quote: Professor
                  All tanks are armored vehicles, but not all armored vehicles are tanks. The Americans are not developing tanks.

                  And MBT including)))) Judging by the meager infa that they publish, it will be something like the recently introduced "Griffon", only on a new chassis and with a new turret, of course. Well, with a new cannon (perhaps, by the way, a new German 130 mm from Rheinmetall)
                  Quote: Professor
                  New is not crumpled on old tanks.

                  So thank you - it was NOT used on the old ones))) I did not have time, so to speak))) Mainly because in the late USSR they could not bring it to the conditions that allow serial production. In this case, we see that there is a series, which means that the engine is quite efficient for itself, and this is already an indicator that it was processed with a file.
                  As for the links to the materiel - alas, I don't have the keys to the safe with the documentation and the pass to the KB ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  Where? By your officials. The article was on VO.

                  Namely, and it clearly states the following:
                  "Yes. Both the engines and thermal imaging cameras have been resolved. The engine produces exactly the parameters and technical characteristics that were laid down in the TTZ during the design."
                  ALL! Where are the words that the engine was replaced?
                  By thermal imaging cameras:
                  “As for thermal imagers, I can say with confidence that we have a completely import-substituted Russian product, which is produced by Shvabe.
                  Where are the words that there was no thermal imager before and that it was only now installed?
                  Here are the words of officials, literally, what's ambiguous?
                10. Professor
                  Professor 10 August 2020 20: 03
                  +1
                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Why weaker in the first place? What's new? The answer is EVERYTHING ...

                  Hybrid electromechanical and SU drive? electro-pneumatic suspension? Polymer armor? Not? So what's new?

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  And MBT including)))) Judging by the meager infa that they publish, it will be something like the recently introduced "Griffon", only on a new chassis and with a new turret, of course. Well, with a new cannon (perhaps, by the way, a new German 130 mm from Rheinmetall)

                  The Americans not only are not developing a new tank, but the old ones have not been produced for a long time. Don't believe me? See Congressional Records.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  So thank you - it was NOT used on the old ones))) I did not have time, so to speak))) Mainly because in the late USSR they could not bring it to the conditions that allow serial production. In this case, we see that there is a series, which means that the engine is quite efficient for itself, and this is already an indicator that it was processed with a file.
                  As for the links to the materiel - alas, I don't have the keys to the safe with the documentation and the pass to the KB ...

                  However. Fortunately, there is no scoop for more than 30 years, and the engine developed at that time is still new. Daimler is resting.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Namely, and it clearly states the following:
                  "Yes. Both the engines and thermal imaging cameras have been resolved. The engine produces exactly the parameters and technical characteristics that were laid down in the TTZ during the design."
                  ALL! Where are the words that the engine was replaced?

                  1. The fact that there were "problems" is already known.
                  2. What's new in that engine?

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  By thermal imaging cameras:
                  “As for thermal imagers, I can say with confidence that we have a completely import-substituted Russian product, which is produced by Shvabe.

                  Nonsense. Shvabe works exclusively on imported equipment, imported technologies and imported raw materials. Only the assembly geography has changed.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Where are the words that there was no thermal imager before and that it was only now installed?

                  Where are the words that the thermal imager was? wink Again, this is fine for a concept tank.
                11. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 16 August 2020 17: 09
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  Hybrid electromechanical and SU drive? electro-pneumatic suspension? Polymer armor? Not? So what's new?

                  Let's take a guess - new armor (new grades of steel + new composite materials), new DZ, new KAZ, new optoelectronic systems, new digital systems ...
                  All this has already been discussed in many articles over the past 5 years, if you, dear Prof, are not aware of this information, then why are you discussing this topic?
                  Quote: Professor
                  The Americans not only are not developing a new tank, but the old ones have not been produced for a long time. Don't believe me? See Congressional Records.

                  Oha Prof, I'll send you four letters now - NGCV laughing laughing laughing
                  Quote: Professor
                  However. Fortunately, there is no scoop for more than 30 years, and the engine developed at that time is still new. Daimler is resting.

                  Exactly! 30 years as there is no country, and the dvigun developed in this country not only has some of the world's best characteristics among dviguns for heavy tracked armored combat vehicles, but also has a decent modernization margin! Exactly - someone is clearly resting ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  1. The fact that there were "problems" is already known.
                  2. What's new in that engine?

                  And think with your head? How does a serial product differ from a prototype?
                  Quote: Professor
                  Nonsense. Shvabe works exclusively on imported equipment, imported technologies and imported raw materials. Only the assembly geography has changed.

                  Professor. Are you really funny or are you pretending? My father worked in this very Shvab until 2019, so I somehow know what kind of equipment there is, what raw materials, and what components came from where, you can not pour it into me)))
                  By the way, the domestic matrix to replace the French was developed about two years ago, now, apparently, mass production has been launched.
                  Quote: Professor
                  Where are the words that the thermal imager was?

                  Professor, do you have a base on this topic? I have no desire to look for links to all articles for almost 5 years - you have an excellent head on your shoulders, and you were not lazy ... But how else are you going to discuss the topic if you do not own the material and want to, to bring you everything on a silver platter? You still remind me of some students who, in an understandable way, entered a specialized university, without even having any elementary knowledge in this profile ...
                12. Professor
                  Professor 16 August 2020 20: 31
                  0
                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Let's take a guess - new armor (new grades of steel + new composite materials), new DZ, new KAZ, new optoelectronic systems, new digital systems ...

                  On paper ... Only on paper. There is no evidence of the existence of these miracle systems.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Oha Prof, I'll send you four letters now - NGCV

                  You'd better show a link to the financial documents of the Congress. Or who finances the development?

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  And think with your head? How does a serial product differ from a prototype?

                  Are you rude? Is it from an excess of arguments?

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Exactly! 30 years as there is no country, and the dvigun developed in this country not only has some of the world's best characteristics among dviguns for heavy tracked armored combat vehicles, but also has a decent modernization margin! Exactly - someone is clearly resting ...

                  Well yes. Also write "tax-free in the world." Let's list the "world's best specs". Let's compare.

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Professor. Are you really funny or are you pretending? My father worked in this very Shvab until 2019, so I somehow know what kind of equipment there is, what raw materials, and what components came from where, you can not pour it into me)))
                  By the way, the domestic matrix to replace the French was developed about two years ago, now, apparently, mass production has been launched.

                  Convinced. Let's list Russian manufacturers. I have been working in the bourgeois semiconductor industry for two decades. I know a thing or two. Let's discuss the list. Just don't merge quickly. wink

                  Quote: Albert1988
                  Professor, do you have a base on this topic? I have no desire to look for links to all articles for almost 5 years - you have an excellent head on your shoulders, and you were not lazy ... But how else are you going to discuss the topic if you do not own the material and want to, to bring you everything on a silver platter? You still remind me of some students who, in an understandable way, entered a specialized university, without even having any elementary knowledge in this profile ...

                  Merged?

                  PS
                  My dissertation is in electro-optics. Copyright certificates on this topic too. Articles published in Aplide Optics. So don't be shy. Lay out the list.
                13. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 16 August 2020 21: 31
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  On paper ... Only on paper. There is no evidence of the existence of these miracle systems.

                  Exactly as evidence of the existence of "miracle systems" in the same F-35 ... For, surprisingly, all this is a closed infa ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  You'd better show a link to the financial documents of the Congress. Or who finances the development?

                  Oh, yes, they will just publish it all in the open access ... Maybe they will even publish specific items of expenditure within the framework of the program ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  Are you rude? Is it from an excess of arguments?

                  No rudeness, dear Prof! I will definitely NOT be rude to you, to carry out such a simple mental operation with your head is not a problem at all)))
                  Quote: Professor
                  Well yes. Also write "tax-free in the world."

                  And when did you and I begin to consider information from agitation? Although ... How many X-shaped diesels are there in the world? I don’t think there are many, but ours is not unique either ... But the main thing is that our journalists have not yet reached it, and thank God!
                  Quote: Professor
                  Let's list the "world's best specs". Let's compare.

                  I said "one of the best"! And there were many publications regarding the alleged characteristics of this dvigun. strange. what you all missed)))
                  Quote: Professor
                  Convinced. Let's list Russian manufacturers. I have been working in the bourgeois semiconductor industry for two decades. I know a thing or two. Let's discuss the list. Just don't merge quickly.

                  Ok, I will grind it with Batya - I will give it))) You, only, dear Prof, work in the bourgeois industry, a question for you - how about the Russian one?
                  Quote: Professor
                  Merged?

                  Exactly))))) In the same way, I regularly "merge" in the classroom, when a person comes to me on a topic on genetics, not knowing how DNA is arranged))))) I merge, put him "bad" and send him to learn the basics ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  PS
                  My dissertation is in electro-optics. Copyright certificates on this topic too. Articles published in Aplide Optics. So don't be shy. Lay out the list.

                  Great, then a counter question - where did you get info about production in the military sphere from us? For export samples?
                14. Professor
                  Professor 18 August 2020 20: 19
                  +1
                  1. The F-35 is not only in service with many countries (and the same number lined up behind it), but also successfully fights. Armata, except at parades, did not show himself anywhere. All its advantages are still only on paper.
                  2. The Congress publishes publicly funding for certain programs. Taxpayers have a right to know what their money is spent on.
                  3. You provide information from agitation here. "new armor, new that, new syo). In fact, there is nothing new yet. There is a concept tank.
                  4. "One of the best" engines based on propaganda again? Let's take TTX into the studio. Let's compare.
                  5. I know about the Russian industry as we
                  a) we supply equipment to the Russian Federation. We have a representative in Moscow.
                  b) we monitor all markets, including the Russian one, so as not to oversleep the client, competitor, etc.
                  c) the segment of the semiconductor industry is actually very small and here, like in the village, everyone knows everyone.
                  6. To merge is not manly.
                  7. The Iron Curtain is long gone and how things are in your military-industrial complex is not a secret at all. Remember the black boxes of the Su-24 shot down in Syria?
                15. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 18 August 2020 22: 20
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  The F-35 is not only in service with many countries (and the same number lined up behind it), but also successfully fights. Armata, except at parades, did not show himself anywhere. All its advantages are still only on paper.

                  Yes, but who, apart from a very small group of people, saw the "manifestation" of his performance characteristics in real life? So far, everything is tantamount to parades ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  The Congress publishes publicly funding for certain programs. Taxpayers have a right to know what their money is spent on.

                  Ugum, yes, he publishes right after all - where, for what, and to a specific article, to a cent ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  You can provide information from agitation here. "new armor, new that, new syo). In fact, there is nothing new yet. There is a concept tank.

                  I remind you, dear prof, that the very concept of "concept" itself implies the presence of everything new ... And so, yes, of course - the tank is made of plywood and moves from the pedal thrust of ten recruits immured inside, and the characteristic rumble of its engine - these are their strained sighs, from which it turns out so much quieter than the roar and characteristic diesel whistle of really old engines on the same T-90 ...
                  Quote: Professor
                  "One of the best" engines based on agitation again? Let's take TTX into the studio. Let's compare.

                  Professor, when a student in the test actually asks me to tell what he taught before that during the whole year, I send him for retake)))) You had 5 years to get acquainted with the material, were not interested? So why are you going to the discussion?
                  Quote: Professor
                  5. I know about the Russian industry as we
                  a) we supply equipment to the Russian Federation. We have a representative in Moscow.
                  b) we monitor all markets, including the Russian one, so as not to oversleep the client, competitor, etc.

                  Ugums, and you cooperate with us in the military sphere, great, but what about the sanctions?
                  Quote: Professor
                  6. To merge is not manly.

                  When students are ignorant, you have to go even to such "unmanly" actions! What can you do?
                  Quote: Professor
                  The Iron Curtain is long gone and how things are in your military-industrial complex is not a secret at all.

                  Oha)))) Only from something somehow you were not very aware that these same armats would be rolled out to the parade, you then convinced me that there would be nothing in the parade ... Now you are claiming about a certain "concept tank "(by the way, using the concept" concept "incorrectly), so if everything is known, then tell me which engine. specifically stands on the armature, and is there or is there a thermal imager?
                  Quote: Professor
                  Remember the black boxes of the Su-24 shot down in Syria?

                  Well, yes, I remember the Americans you mentioned once found "Chinese electronics" No. in the same F-35 ...
  • Professor
    Professor 4 August 2020 21: 11
    -1
    Quote: Heet
    You call the flying prototype a cardboard prototype. The top of the nearness.
    I think that people like you and the SU-57 were called cardboard.

    A concept car is a cardboard one even if it drives .. But materiel.
    1. Heet
      Heet 4 August 2020 21: 23
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      A concept car is a cardboard one, even if it drives.

      What are you talking about?
      Quote: Professor
      Materiel however.

      About the materiel in more detail, please, with quotations from the relevant literature, confirming your statement.
    2. Albert1988
      Albert1988 4 August 2020 21: 53
      0
      Quote: Professor
      A concept car is a cardboard car even if it drives

      Tin, professor, you sure didn’t drink anything strong today? "Riding cardboard" is something from the field of not even psychology, but psychiatry ...
      1. Professor
        Professor 4 August 2020 21: 59
        -1
        Quote: Albert1988
        Tin, professor, you sure didn’t drink anything strong today? "Riding cardboard" is something from the field of not even psychology, but psychiatry ...

        1. No, I didn't drink.
        2. A concept car is a concept car. Learn materiel.

        1. Heet
          Heet 4 August 2020 22: 01
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          Teach materiel.

          So about the materiel will be, something or only able to play pamper?
        2. Albert1988
          Albert1988 4 August 2020 22: 04
          0
          Quote: Professor
          1. No, I didn't drink.

          Thank God! But still, the claims about cardboard are worrisome, since only a layout can be cardboard! And then, only a certain type of layout! But as you said, a concept car (and the analogy is fundamentally wrong) made of cardboard (purely hypothetically) can only have a body, and then it will be a concept car exclusively for salons, created within the framework of some crazy environmental program)))) And make a flying plane out of cardboard, and even a jet! God forbid you from such thoughts! Otherwise, people will seriously think that you were celebrating something and will not admit it)))
          Quote: Professor
          A concept car is a concept car. Learn materiel.

          Professor! You have to distinguish a concept car from a pre-production sample or a working prototype, as they say in Odessa, these are two very big differences!
          1. Professor
            Professor 4 August 2020 22: 12
            -1
            Quote: Albert1988
            Thank God! But still, the claims about cardboard are worrisome, since only a layout can be cardboard!

            Of course not. A concept car or concept tank is made of "cardboard". The concept tank should not hold a shot, but the concept car overloads.

            Quote: Albert1988
            And then, only a certain type of layout! But as you said, a concept car (and the analogy is fundamentally wrong) made of cardboard (purely hypothetically) can only have a body, and then it will be a concept car exclusively for salons, created within the framework of some crazy environmental program)))) And make a flying plane out of cardboard, and even a jet! God forbid you from such thoughts! Otherwise, people will seriously think that you were celebrating something and will not admit it)))

            Not only for salons, but also for parades.

            .
            Quote: Albert1988
            Professor! You have to distinguish a concept car from a pre-production sample or a working prototype, as they say in Odessa, these are two very big differences!

            They will tell you not that. But at your age, it's time to determine where the truth is and where the noodles are.

            PS
            Do not take "cardboard" literally.

            PPP
            Here is the concept plane
          2. Albert1988
            Albert1988 4 August 2020 22: 20
            0
            Quote: Professor
            The concept tank should not hold a shot

            Three ha-ha, at the range they shoot at him, fire at him, and check if he holds the shot - if he holds it - it's a bad concept, to melt it down!
            Quote: Professor
            Not only for salons, but also for parades.

            It's cool, Professor, a tank spends 360 days a year at the training ground, and then for 4 days it is at rehearsals and a parade, what is it for? Of course, for the parade)))) In this case, my car is intended only for trips to my grandmother for potatoes, because about the same number of days in a year it is used for this))))
            Quote: Professor
            They will tell you not that. But at your age, it's time to determine where the truth is and where the noodles are.

            Here you, now, professor, tell you that I can cook soup for ten people from the noodles you hang, no less))))
            Quote: Professor
            Here is the concept plane

            It's colossal! compare a machine for developing technologies (will it work or not) and an existing one, with a machine that is a prototype of a serial product! Or is it already produced in small batches!
            Professor, I'm asking again - what's wrong with you? Where is the Prof I knew 4 years ago?
          3. Professor
            Professor 5 August 2020 20: 59
            0
            Quote: Albert1988
            Three ha-ha, at the range they shoot at him, fire at him, and check if he holds the shot - if he holds it - it's a bad concept, to melt it down!

            Where? Let's take a photo of the shelling. Ceremonial tanks do not fire.

            Quote: Albert1988
            It's cool, Professor, a tank spends 360 days a year at the training ground, and then for 4 days it is at rehearsals and a parade, what is it for? Of course, for the parade)))) In this case, my car is intended only for trips to my grandmother for potatoes, because about the same number of days in a year it is used for this))))

            Where is the 360 ​​day challenge program fool at the landfill?

            Quote: Albert1988
            It's colossal! compare a machine for developing technologies (will it work or not) and an existing one, with a machine that is a prototype of a serial product! Or is it already produced in small batches!

            1. You have told about this aircraft that it is a "next generation aircraft" and only now, having remained a concept aircraft, it has become a "technology processor".
            2. Armata also exists as a concept tank.

            Quote: Albert1988
            Professor, I'm asking again - what's wrong with you? Where is the Prof I knew 4 years ago?

            Or maybe you changed and began to wishful thinking? wink

            PS
            Where was the thermal imager before? How's the engine doing? wink

            PS
            Concept tank
            https://www.timesofisrael.com/defense-ministry-unveils-3-prototypes-for-israels-tanks-of-the-future/
          4. Albert1988
            Albert1988 5 August 2020 21: 56
            0
            Quote: Professor
            Where? Let's take a photo of the shelling. Ceremonial tanks do not fire.

            Can I still give you the key to the safe where the blueprints are?
            Quote: Professor
            Where is the 360-day proving ground test program?

            Write a letter to the Ministry of Defense - they have all the information)))
            Quote: Professor
            1. You have told about this aircraft that it is a "next generation aircraft" and only now, having remained a concept aircraft, it has become a "technology processor".

            Who told this? Military journalists? It could not be imagined anywhere, as an aircraft of the future, since by the time it was shown, its concept was outdated, because it was considered as a possible version of a glider for the USSR deck aviation ...
            Quote: Professor
            Where was the thermal imager before?

            Have you forgotten how to read? In the same place, as before, on the tower as part of the sighting complex))))
            Quote: Professor
            How's the engine doing?

            He still drives on the pedals of tortured conscripts, one conscript was so tortured that he went to crash the FSO car - he twisted the pedals on the armature and was damaged in his mind, poor fellow ...

            Prof, you would be ashamed to push such a thick trolling here ...
          5. Professor
            Professor 6 August 2020 21: 08
            0
            Quote: Albert1988
            Can I still give you the key to the safe where the blueprints are?

            So everything you said is your fantasy and you cannot confirm this with facts?

            Quote: Albert1988
            Write a letter to the Ministry of Defense - they have all the information)))

            What do they have to do with it? You yourself are responsible for your words.

            Quote: Albert1988
            Who told this? Military journalists? It could not be imagined anywhere, as an aircraft of the future, since by the time it was shown, its concept was outdated, because it was considered as a possible version of a glider for the USSR deck aviation ...

            http://oruzhie.info/voennye-samolety/50-su-47

            Quote: Albert1988
            Have you forgotten how to read? In the same place, as before, on the tower as part of the sighting complex))))

            Let's link to the studio. Your fantasies are not interesting to me.

            Quote: Albert1988
            He still drives on the pedals of tortured conscripts, one conscript was so tortured that he went to crash the FSO car - he twisted the pedals on the armature and was damaged in his mind, poor fellow ...

            The question is: Was the original engine there?

            PS
            Concept tank
          6. Albert1988
            Albert1988 9 August 2020 16: 21
            0
            Quote: Professor
            So everything you said is your fantasy and you cannot confirm this with facts?

            What does fantasy have to do with it? There is a regulated procedure for testing new products, for example, the same Sergei Mayev mentioned that as many as two samples of object 195 were made for shelling, which were smashed to smithereens on landfills from everything that is possible and impossible.
            If you question such work regarding the T-14, then I can question any modern Western development, for example, the new 130-mm gun of the Germans, they say - there are no photos / videos, how does it pierce armor? No, that means there was nothing.
            Quote: Professor
            http://oruzhie.info/voennye-samolety/50-su-47

            Well, here the situation is like with object 195 - it was developed back in the USSR, but it was implemented in metal much later, as a result, the car turned out to be outdated .. Although even before the collapse of the Soviet Union, such a scheme was not considered something more than just a prototype for testing technologies ...
            Quote: Professor
            Let's link to the studio. Your fantasies are not interesting to me.

            Link to what? You, dear professor, didn’t seem to have read what systems were developed for the T-14? And, of course, you are not aware of how Russia bought Western components through Turkey?
            Quote: Professor
            PS
            Concept tank

            Do you know what the difference is? In what the Poles say in plain text - this is a concept, there is one and we do not develop it, because there is no money, give money - we will bring it to serial and sell it to you at a reduced price)))
            From this point of view, the analogy here is not with the T-14, which is being tested at proving grounds, but with this crossover:
  • Albert1988
    Albert1988 4 August 2020 21: 55
    +1
    Quote: Heet
    The flying specimen you call cardboard prototype. The top of the nearness.
    I think so that people like you and the SU-57 called cardboard.

    I am more worried about the definition of "cardboard" repeated by Prof ...
    Previously, Prof could afford to trick everyone present a little, but very subtly, but here a primitive at the level of a typical Svidomo ...
  • AnderS
    AnderS 3 August 2020 23: 21
    -10 qualifying.
    I "like" when they compare a cardboard prototype with a warring aircraft and admire the cardboard. wassat

    It reminds everyone of the almost forgotten plot of Ukrainian TV, which the putriots made fun of for a long time, about how some schoolboy made a cardboard tank out of boxes of Roshen chocolates ...
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 4 August 2020 00: 20
      +1
      Quote: AnderS
      It reminds everyone of the almost forgotten plot of Ukrainian TV, which the putriots made fun of for a long time, about how some schoolboy made a cardboard tank out of boxes of Roshen chocolates ...

      Yes, and the Ukriots, in turn, made fun of a lot of things, generously distributing labels of "cardboardness", while in reality only cardboard boxes from new developments remained ...
      This is what happens - for some of the inhabitants of one very independent country present here, the cardboard of the brain is understandable, but where does it come from for people who do not live there? Or are they all former non-brothers too?
      1. AnderS
        AnderS 4 August 2020 00: 44
        -6
        Or are they all former non-brothers too?

        Have you tried to be guided by something other than nationality in your argumentation? And then you are very reminiscent of Adolf Aloizovich, he also divided people into full-fledged nations (without the "cardboard of the brain" according to your logic) and all the rest - "subhuman". Can you tell me, are all your like-minded putreots like that, or just you?
        1. Uncle Vanya Susanin
          Uncle Vanya Susanin 4 August 2020 03: 10
          +5
          Forgive me, but how are you different from Aloizovich when you divide people into putriots and your like-minded people, or you can divide, you have special permission for this request
          1. AnderS
            AnderS 4 August 2020 08: 44
            -3
            Sorry, but how are you different from Aloizovich when you divide people into putriots and your like-minded people?

            And you forgive who? I didn't seem to ask you a question ...
            Or forgot to change your account?
            Well, okay, even though you get into someone else's conversation, you will have to fill the gap in your school education. The character to whom I asked my question divides people by nationality - supposedly this is only the "non-brothers" "cardboard of the brain" and in general they are somehow wrong. That is why he is similar to Hitler. I don’t divide people by nationality. Or do you suppose, asking your question, that in Russia there are continuous putreots, and in Ukraine there are continuous "non-brothers"?
            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 4 August 2020 14: 28
              -1
              Quote: AnderS
              And you forgive who? I didn't seem to ask you a question ...

              Can't a third party join the conversation? Interesting beliefs you have))))
              Quote: AnderS
              The character to whom I asked my question divides people by nationality

              I explained everything to you above)))
              Quote: AnderS
              solid putreots

              And you, I look, single out some "putriots" among people who, in your opinion, are wrong? So how are you different then?
            2. Uncle Vanya Susanin
              Uncle Vanya Susanin 4 August 2020 20: 41
              +1
              A thousand apologies, I did not know that you have such a super fine mental organization that does not allow any uncles Vanka to intrude into your comments, so I will correct my mistake, I will not do it anymore, but finally I will note - Ukrainian, this is not a nationality, but a political , Russophobic orientation! And you divide people just by their political views !!!
            3. AnderS
              AnderS 4 August 2020 21: 00
              -3
              And you divide people just by their political views !!!

              Bravo! The brilliance of intelligence is visible as far as a kilometer! Politically speaking, uncle with THICK spiritual organization, people somehow share themselves, in this they do not need my help.
            4. Albert1988
              Albert1988 4 August 2020 22: 06
              +2
              Quote: AnderS
              According to political views, uncle with a THICK mental organization, people somehow share themselves, they don't need my help in this.

              Only now you divide them into people with "correct" and "incorrect" political views. This is a typical feature of some citizens of our country who call themselves liberals ... True, it is for this reason that they are not liberals ...
            5. AnderS
              AnderS 5 August 2020 00: 23
              -2
              This is a typical feature of some citizens of our country who call themselves liberals ..

              If it was a stone in my garden, then it flew past. If you, where did you get the idea that I am a liberal, the liberals are just Pu and his entourage. At least when there was a lot of money from oil sales, they could afford liberalism. And now the market has decided, and the feeding troughs have ceased to be enough for everyone, so this whole gang is rolling down closer and closer to fascism ...
            6. Albert1988
              Albert1988 5 August 2020 12: 32
              0
              Quote: AnderS
              If it was a stone in my garden, then it flew past. If you, where did you get the idea that I am a liberal, the liberals are just Pu and his entourage.

              In general, an interesting picture emerges - Big P and the entourage are "liberals", but they don't call themselves that, their "political opponents" are NOT liberals, but they actively call themselves that)))
              Quote: AnderS
              And now the market has decided, and the feeding troughs have ceased to be enough for everyone, so this whole gang is rolling down closer and closer to fascism ...

              This is some very strange fascism ... Atypical, one might say, it's like a vegetarian predator, or a black-skinned supporter of apartheid))))
  • AnderS
    AnderS 4 August 2020 21: 03
    -3
    I will repeat especially for you, your inter-ear ganglion may be enough to learn:
    According to political views, ... people somehow share themselves, they don't need my help in this.
  • Albert1988
    Albert1988 4 August 2020 14: 25
    -2
    Quote: AnderS
    Have you tried to be guided by something other than nationality in your argumentation?

    And this is not a nationality, but a way of thinking - svidomye and in our country are found, in Belarus and Kazakhstan with Armenia, and so on. countries, although at the same time, well, in general, they have nothing to do with the implied nationality. Because a person becomes Svidomo when, for one reason or another, he switches to a highly distorted paradigm of thinking ...
    1. AnderS
      AnderS 4 August 2020 20: 57
      -2
      And this is not a nationality, but a way of thinking - svidomye and in our country are found, in Belarus and Kazakhstan with Armenia, and so on. countries

      Of course, of course, it's just that I misunderstood you. People like you like to shout that their words were taken out of context, misunderstood and other nonsense. If you really worship the Fuehrer, then at least admit it directly, and do not spin as much as in a frying pan.
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 5 August 2020 12: 35
        -1
        Quote: AnderS
        Of course, of course, it's just that I misunderstood you. People like you like to shout that their words were taken out of context, misunderstood and other nonsense. If you really worship the Fuehrer, then at least admit it directly, and do not spin as much as in a frying pan.

        And where did I say that my words were taken out of context?
        And then - that citizen with ridiculously combed bangs and a decorative moisture accumulator as a mustache is worshiped by just a lot of those whom I called "Svidomo" and "non-brothers", but they are labeled with TPA:
        Quote: AnderS
        worship the Fuhrer

        just those who actively call themselves "liberal", but actively divide people into those who have the correct political position and the wrong political position, as the same "Fuhrer" did hi
  • Uncle Vanya Susanin
    Uncle Vanya Susanin 4 August 2020 03: 12
    0
    It's not true, Rostik was recently recalled at VO, in an article about the Tirex tank!
  • Heet
    Heet 4 August 2020 19: 47
    -1
    Quote: AnderS
    It reminds everyone of the almost forgotten plot of Ukrainian TV, which the putriots made fun of for a long time, about how some schoolboy made a cardboard tank out of boxes of Roshen chocolates ...
    How does this piece of Ukrainian TV about a cardboard tank remind you of the news about a flying specimen in iron? Try to give at least one analogy, strain your brain.
  • sivuch
    sivuch 4 August 2020 09: 24
    -3
    I "like" when they compare a cardboard prototype with a warring aircraft and admire the cardboard. wassat
    Professor, what if you don't juggle?
  • NEOZ
    NEOZ 4 August 2020 12: 38
    -4
    Quote: mdsr
    for evidence of reality

    what is the reality? ... not entirely clear ...
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 3 August 2020 21: 04
      -16 qualifying.
      Quote: Wizard_57
      Where can I get domestic microelectronics, without which it will not be difficult to turn off such a drone for a "potential enemy"? And, of course, the development and debugging of software (software) for such a serious thing requires a significant amount of time.

      Quite right. There is no engine for propeller-driven UAVs yet.
    2. Hwostatij
      Hwostatij 3 August 2020 21: 15
      +1
      In the Boeing crashes, it seems, the centering was initially to blame for the wrong one. And the crooked program from local coders simply could not cope with this design miscalculation
      1. The comment was deleted.
    3. AnderS
      AnderS 3 August 2020 23: 27
      -6
      But the main question is in the filling. Where can I get domestic microelectronics, without which it will not be difficult to turn off such a drone for a "potential enemy"?

      Well, since we started talking about the filling, then be consistent and name at least the top ten of these "effective managers" who are about ... the entire microelectronic industry (filling), as well as the personnel training system capable of developing and producing microelectronic components, which the Russian Federation inherited in inheritance from the USSR ...
      1. Sergey Kulikov_3
        Sergey Kulikov_3 4 August 2020 00: 14
        -3
        Remind, in what years was the "microelectronics of the USSR" ahead of the rest? Something I don’t remember at all, can I remind you to what year tube TVs were produced in the USSR?
        1. AnderS
          AnderS 4 August 2020 00: 55
          +3
          Remind, in what years was the "microelectronics of the USSR" ahead of the rest?

          This is where I wrote that
          "microelectronics of the USSR" was ahead of the rest
          ?
          Although the USSR lagged behind in a number of areas, it still did not use Chinese and any other imported counterparts in defense products. And about unmanned flights, can I remind you about "Buran" which is under the control of backward products
          "microelectronics of the USSR"

          first in the world flew into orbit and made an unmanned landing?
          And by the way, since you intervened in someone else's conversation, then maybe you will call
          at least the top ten of these "effective managers" who ... have covered the entire microelectronic industry (stuffing), as well as the training system capable of developing and producing microelectronic components, inherited by the Russian Federation from the USSR ...
          ?
          PySy: Yes, and tell me more, please, is it written in your training manual that when you mention the achievements of the USSR in any area, you must attribute some absurdity to your opponent that he did not say, and then demand from him evidence of your own delirium?
    4. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 3 August 2020 23: 56
      +1
      We have another complete failure - we had to make motors for the UAV from scratch. The question of motors - we simply did not have them with 50 to 500 hp engines. because Hunter it turned out to be easier for us ...
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 4 August 2020 00: 08
        -5
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Because the Hunter turned out to be easier for us to do

        In my opinion, they were too clever with the Hunter. An expensive and complex project.
        It would be faster and cheaper to develop a project of the Tu-300 type, to make a heavy strike UAV using ready-made components. Then make different modifications.
    5. Albert1988
      Albert1988 4 August 2020 00: 21
      +4
      Quote: Wizard_57
      PS But I agree with you on the main point - we are far behind in this topic. After all, the first "Predators" appeared at the Merikos a long time ago, back in 1994-1995, and the "Reapers" since 2007 and hundreds of them are in service ...

      Remember for a moment what was going on here in 1991-1994 - there was not only no time for drones, the very existence of the country was questionable there ...
      1. AnderS
        AnderS 4 August 2020 00: 58
        -6
        Remember for a moment what was going on here in 1991-1994 - there was not only no time for drones, the very existence of the country was questionable there ...

        How interesting, and who brought the country to such a state, eh?
        1. disyptiformer
          disyptiformer 4 August 2020 04: 09
          +1
          Zyuganovs and Grudinins, who else? Until now, "kazny kavagerists" are trying to make them empty.
          1. AnderS
            AnderS 4 August 2020 08: 50
            -4
            Zyuganovs and Grudinins, who else?

            AHAKHA ... well, you made fun of ... And about Yeltsin Sobchak Putin Gaidar Chubais do not want to remember? By the way, Putin still continues to question
            the very existence of the country

            Or do the events in Khabarovsk tell you nothing?
            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 4 August 2020 14: 22
              -1
              Quote: AnderS
              By the way, Putin still continues to question

              Oha, yes, exactly, he continues that way, that steam from the ears! He does not sleep directly, does not eat, everything thinks how to ruin the country, and the country is all in spite of and in spite of))))
              1. AnderS
                AnderS 4 August 2020 21: 07
                -2
                Oha, yes, exactly, he continues that way, that steam from the ears! He does not sleep directly, does not eat, everything thinks how to ruin the country, and the country is all in spite of and in spite of))))

                Well, what a subtle observation! Have you ever thought that a country can be destroyed not only by action, but also by inaction? In particular, not to take any measures against their accomplices, when they lose their shores and incite the population of entire regions against the central government?
                1. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 4 August 2020 22: 00
                  +1
                  Quote: AnderS
                  Well, what a subtle observation! Have you ever thought that a country can be destroyed not only by action, but also by inaction? In particular, not to take any measures against their accomplices, when they lose their shores and incite the population of entire regions against the central government?

                  Well, he is inactive there in his Kremlin, just like a supreme Taoist, carrying out divine non-action ...
                  So do you like it better?
                  1. AnderS
                    AnderS 5 August 2020 00: 16
                    -3
                    Well, he is inactive there in his Kremlin, just like a supreme Taoist, carrying out divine non-action ...
                    So do you like it better?

                    You are a strange person after all ... The country is heading for no one knows where, and its so-called "head" is inactive, not taking any measures to improve the economic situation. Only pours in promises. At the same time, life is getting worse. The poverty level is growing, the income level of the population is falling. And the "president" continues to promise everything. The question to you is - why should I, and indeed, anyone else, like it?
                    1. Albert1988
                      Albert1988 5 August 2020 12: 40
                      0
                      Quote: AnderS
                      Country to roll to nowhere

                      And where is it going? For 20 years now I have been hearing that the country is rolling, but nevertheless, every day I see the opposite ...
                      Quote: AnderS
                      and its so-called "head" is inactive, not taking any measures to improve the economic situation.

                      Did he personally tell you that he doesn't accept it? I do not argue - our government shows amazing sluggishness and slow-wittedness in these matters, but in order to assert so boldly, one must be aware of the whole undercover struggle, do you know?
                      Quote: AnderS
                      The poverty level is growing, the income level of the population is falling.

                      For 20 years now our poverty level has been growing and the level of income of the population is falling, nevertheless, from something people continue to buy unrealistically expensive things in packs and moan that they are not allowed to go on vacation abroad, which is not very cheap ...
                      Quote: AnderS
                      The question to you is - why should I, and indeed, anyone else, like it?

                      "This" - does not owe anyone or anything, you have every right to your opinion and its free expression, and everyone else also has such a right ... So why do you not like that someone has an opinion different from your his?
            2. disyptiformer
              disyptiformer 4 August 2020 18: 41
              -1
              Too fat[B] [/ b]... Or are you at work? In any case, you need to thinner. And about Khabarovsk, take your time.
              A bit of flood, may the administration forgive me!

              All is true.
              1. AnderS
                AnderS 4 August 2020 21: 21
                -3
                All is true.

                And I see here a walking lie detector has appeared and even with the possibility of predictions.
        2. Albert1988
          Albert1988 4 August 2020 14: 21
          0
          Quote: AnderS
          How interesting, and who brought the country to such a state, eh?

          Don't you know? One, with a "patch on the brain", lives out in Germany, another, a lover of the "cold and skinny", is already in the land, the third, red-haired, although he is heavily graying, still sits in a comfortable chair, and a number of those who have adhered now live on the Misty Albione, one really hung on a scarf, the rest are not very audible))))
          1. AnderS
            AnderS 4 August 2020 21: 18
            -3
            the third, such a redhead, though he was graying heavily, is still sitting in a comfortable chair,

            Come on, let's take another half step and explain why this redhead is still sitting in a comfortable chair, in which someone put him, by the way? Why not on a bunk? Is it because the one who planted, what the redhead did completely and completely approves? And by the way, can you tell me what this one who planted was doing at 90? Whose assistant was you? Is it not that leader who himself actively destroyed the USSR, sitting in the Supreme Council? And the rest, who also mainly live
            on Foggy Albion

            but they are in no hurry to hang on a scarf, for example, as these figures and dozens of others like them


            or they have nothing to do with it?
            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 4 August 2020 22: 24
              0
              Quote: AnderS
              Come on, let's take another half step and explain why this redhead is still sitting in a comfortable chair, in which someone put him, by the way? Why not on a bunk? Is it because the one who planted, what the redhead did completely and completely approves? And by the way, can you tell me what this one who planted was doing at 90? Whose assistant was you? Is it not that leader who himself actively destroyed the USSR, sitting in the Supreme Council? And the rest, who also mainly live

              ABOUT! And you, I see, are people who enter large offices and regularly visit Kremlin lobbies? Excellent! Always dreamed of meeting this! So tell me, ignorant, how are things with political groups in the circles of our dear "Elita" and "Establishment"? What kind of undercover fuss is there in EdRe? What do the Kremlin leaders think about Khabarovsk, and how do they intend to crush the "insurgent people"? And that's really interesting, honestly!
              1. AnderS
                AnderS 5 August 2020 00: 37
                -3
                ABOUT! And you, I see, are people who enter large offices and regularly visit Kremlin lobbies? Fine! I've always dreamed of meeting this!

                Well, another portion of nonsense ... I wonder if you yourself realize that the level of your "argumentation" is below the plinth? If I were a member of large offices, would I read this site, and even more so answer your tricky, as you think, comments? I have nothing else to do? For me there would be more than a dozen Prigogine men, like you, roughly, tore your shirt on your chest ...
                And you, as I look, are spinning like you are in a frying pan, all the time you go away from answering directly posed questions. Obviously because answering them would show the inconsistency of the position you are advocating. So from your behavior, it is clear to me that further dialogue with you does not make sense. Be there!
                1. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 5 August 2020 12: 49
                  0
                  Quote: AnderS
                  I wonder if you yourself realize that the level of your "argumentation" is below the plinth?

                  Dear, if you would have noticed, then in this case I have NO argumentation at all, since in this "dispute" it is meaningless, because neither I nor you can cite any factual material, except for shouts of "boss! All gone! ", to which your own, if I may say so, argumentation is reduced))
                  Quote: AnderS
                  If I were a member of large offices, would I read this site, and even more so answer your tricky, as you think, comments?

                  Then the question is - why are you bringing up topics that you obviously don't understand?
                  Quote: AnderS
                  And you, as I look, are spinning like you are in a frying pan, all the time you go away from answering directly posed questions.

                  Here is a great example of your "argumentation"))) Two snakes and three hedgehogs, as in a children's poem ...
                  Your "questions" are meaningless, because, as I said, in order to answer such "questions", you need to be in large offices and be aware of the undercover fuss ...

                  As for my general opinion about our "elite" - so I never hid it - you say thieves? I answer - the first-class thief! Are you speaking incompetent? I answer - absolutely incompetent! BUT, nevertheless, even this incompetent thief is beginning to gradually reach (it has long come to the bravest of them, to the most inhibited - it will never reach) that if the country is a source of income for them and a business project, then something is needed- do it, otherwise you can be left without everything at all ...
  • Interlocutor
    Interlocutor 3 August 2020 21: 25
    +6
    Even unfortunate Turkey has long been in service with attack drones of various classes, and actively uses them in various conflicts, and even successfully sells them abroad. I'm not even talking about countries like China or Israel.

    As far as I remember on such a thrust, except for the United States, no one else has drones. Maybe I'm not in the know, but I haven't seen the footage for sure. Therefore, you seem to distort the information.
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 3 August 2020 21: 34
      0
      analogues from the USA RQ-170, Boeing X-48, Boeing X-45, X-47 A / B, from Europe nEUROn, Taranis. Iran and China have something
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 3 August 2020 22: 02
    -5
    "Beggarly" Turkey does not have such a drone and is not expected
  • Rubi0
    Rubi0 4 August 2020 09: 47
    -5
    What kind of country? The country that foolishly lost the production of engines, electronics, the Glushkov Institute of Cybernetics, and many other things on its territory that are needed for drones. Do not harbor illusions about a great country, Russia is not the USSR, it is banal, even in terms of a population of 160 million, it is not profitable to produce high-tech products, and even more so to maintain an army along the entire border. Give the Russian Federation another 10 years of peace of mind to bring all projects to mind. Better, instead of criticism, think about what you are good at and get down to business and succeed in something.
  • NEOZ
    NEOZ 4 August 2020 12: 37
    -5
    Quote: mdsr
    Getting the first strike drone in 2024 is a SHAME for a country like Russia.

    why do you think so?
  • vVvAD
    vVvAD 4 August 2020 16: 27
    -2
    The question is, what are they - these Turkish attack drones? We collect the same class under an Israeli license (Outpost is called) and produce our own (Orion, if that) wink
    And their heaviest Anka with 200kg by 200 km is not serious for combat purposes somehow. And in the "swarm" as many as 8 pieces. At the same time, you confuse the concepts a little: this is initially a universal vehicle, it has reconnaissance (Anka Block A) and reconnaissance and shock (Anka Block B / Anka-S) modifications. And in the case of a UAV, this means very conditional strike capabilities.
    Show me a Turkish MALE UAV with a turbojet engine and stealth technology, or capable of carrying at least half a ton, well, or having a combat radius of at least 1000 km, and I will willingly agree with you.
  • Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 3 August 2020 20: 40
    -3
    "At the moment it is known that the first unmanned attack vehicle" Hunter "will enter service with a conventional (not flat) nozzle."
    I am certainly not a professional aircraft gentlemen.
    But as far as he was interested in the question, they can start knocking him down on a non-flat nozzle for nothing? ...
    1. mdsr
      mdsr 3 August 2020 20: 46
      -21 qualifying.
      Quote: Benzorez
      But as far as he was interested in the question, they can start knocking him down on a non-flat nozzle for nothing? ...

      You do not understand anything. This is such a know-how that has no analogue in the world, so to speak lol
      1. Petrol cutter
        Petrol cutter 3 August 2020 20: 53
        -1
        But, excuse me, excuse me ... All professionals claim that only a flat nozzle gives the utmost stealth to the unit. How so?!.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
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          2. Alber alber
            Alber alber 4 August 2020 00: 52
            +1
            While these stacks with a flat nozzle are no longer produced, but slowly devour each other, and the next wafer with a usual nozzle came out, without supersonic, with flaws in terms of stealth, well, stealth (a drone with completely radio-absorbing materials or not completely), and knocks over, about, near, in the distance Khmeimim exactly the same, and it lands periodically
        2. Livonetc
          Livonetc 3 August 2020 21: 05
          +2
          When they master this technology it will be with a flat nozzle.
          The first stage will be flat.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 3 August 2020 22: 04
            +4
            The F-35 flies with a round nozzle, but the old F-22 with a flat one.
          2. 5-9
            5-9 4 August 2020 11: 15
            -2
            From it, the thrust decreases ... not the fact that, in principle, it is needed ...
        3. sivuch
          sivuch 4 August 2020 09: 28
          -2
          A flat nozzle somewhat reduces the likelihood of target detection by radar and infrared means, and, who would have thought, only in the rear hemisphere. So intelligible?
      2. Sasha Minakov
        Sasha Minakov 3 August 2020 21: 42
        +1
        how witty we are))) funny okraintsy.
        1. mdsr
          mdsr 3 August 2020 22: 00
          -11 qualifying.
          Quote: Sasha Minakov
          how witty we are))) funny okraintsy.

          From the Volga region we, from the middle, with the Volga-Bulgar roots hi
          1. Albert1988
            Albert1988 4 August 2020 00: 23
            0
            Quote: mdsr
            From the Volga region we, from the middle, with the Volga-Bulgar roots

            Nothing, and there, too, "people with settlers and a skull in the shape of a Tripolye pot" are found, and it doesn't matter what their roots are ...
  • Thunderbringer
    Thunderbringer 3 August 2020 21: 36
    +9
    The fighters against the regime started hysterical.
    Expected.
    Red-asses with a liberda and former Russians with a sinking letter "r" shaking their sideways and splashing saliva trying to furiously despise the Russians and Russia here?
    The more this rot jumps, the less weight in their words.
    And the more correct everything happens.
    You will choke.
    1. Sasha Minakov
      Sasha Minakov 3 August 2020 21: 43
      0
      Every word is right on target! I completely agree!!!
  • Imperial Technocrat
    Imperial Technocrat 3 August 2020 21: 52
    -5
    Russia is still in second place in drones, it is necessary to overtake the USA
  • vitvit123
    vitvit123 3 August 2020 21: 59
    +8
    Quote: Professor
    I "like" when they compare a cardboard prototype with a warring aircraft and admire the cardboard

    Everything is cardboard ... like in those cartoons that we made fun of. And why are some blockheads abroad talking about empty space (overexposures, Poseidons, rockets with nuclear engines, right, laughter) ... The professor already knew everything - cartoons ...
  • yfast
    yfast 3 August 2020 22: 00
    -3
    Quote: Wedmak
    The Hunter has a mass of 25 tons and is a really big machine.

    Losing 25 tons is 50 times more offensive than 650 kg. Therefore, the question is whether they will participate in hostilities,
    though after 5 years. Is it possible that modern Russian designers can not fasten a helicopter
    missile to medium drone to start with?
    1. mdsr
      mdsr 3 August 2020 22: 19
      -8
      Quote: yfast
      Losing 25 tons is 50 times more offensive than 650 kg. Therefore, the question is whether they will participate in hostilities,

      The main thing for the ruling organized crime group is to participate in the parades.
      Quote: yfast
      Is it possible that modern Russian designers can not fasten a helicopter
      missile to medium drone to start with?
      Do we have them? In addition to the Israeli drone Searcher Mk. II, which is called the Outpost?
      1. Heet
        Heet 3 August 2020 22: 51
        +5
        Quote: mdsr
        ruling organized crime group

        I wonder if you can substantiate your statement?
    2. Disant
      Disant 4 August 2020 03: 28
      +3
      you are taken to the side and you compare a tank and a moped.
      mopeds will all collapse at once if a mess starts, and you won't go on the attack with them. Mopeds such as bayraktars and anoks are driven around Syria and Libya, because they are allowed.
      and the most important thing is the security of control channels and the presence of their own jeepies and avaks - whoever has his own is on horseback
    3. sivuch
      sivuch 4 August 2020 09: 33
      -4
      So this is understandable - the Hunter is not for police operations, but for breaking through serious air defense in the first place (by air defense, I mean not only ground defense).
      And you can screw it on - it has already been tested in Syria. But so far, the most effective was the use of UAVs as a target designator.
  • yfast
    yfast 3 August 2020 22: 03
    +5
    Quote: mdsr
    The Omerigans simply cheat their citizens for money with these stealth aircraft.

    The F-35 has a round nozzle, how is it like ours?
    1. STORM 12
      STORM 12 4 August 2020 00: 26
      -3
      Flat-more minuses + bark (falls off sometimes) = that's why they extinguished
    2. kjhg
      kjhg 4 August 2020 18: 52
      +2
      Quote: yfast
      Quote: mdsr
      The Omerigans simply cheat their citizens for money with these stealth aircraft.

      The F-35 has a round nozzle, how is it like ours?

      Are you talking about UAVs, fighters or aircraft carriers? You will decide, sir.
  • Sergey Kulikov_3
    Sergey Kulikov_3 4 August 2020 01: 48
    +1
    Quote: AnderS
    as well as a system of training personnel capable of developing and producing microelectronic components, inherited by the Russian Federation from the USSR ...

    When you talk about the "legacy of the USSR", what do you mean, frames or chips? Can you name examples? About Buran is not necessary, an interesting, one-time project, it is not known on whose microelectronics it was made, but it does not matter, Buran is not the crown of microelectronics, and it is better to discuss it in rocketry. Speaking of inheritance, there were 15 heirs, can you show how microelectronics developed in the rest of the heirs? Where are these Baltic tigers, the main nurse, cotton billionaires and others?
  • viktor_ui
    viktor_ui 4 August 2020 05: 27
    +1
    Of course I BELIEVE you ... can there be any doubt ... ??? wassat We judge by deeds, not by chatter.
  • Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 4 August 2020 06: 41
    -2
    Good news, let's hope it turns out to be true.
  • jaroff
    jaroff 4 August 2020 10: 26
    +1
    It would be better to be silent about the timing. Even 9 women will not give birth in a month.
  • 5-9
    5-9 4 August 2020 11: 19
    -2
    This is a heavy UAV with flight characteristics like a fighter (and not a bomber of the 30s) for breaking through a serious air defense (and not bullet pturov at Toychan women). There are no such in the world in the ranks, in general ...
    Why it should be with a single Su-57 and not with a Su-34 is not very clear ...
    1. Romka47
      Romka47 4 August 2020 14: 50
      -3
      (and not bullets of ptura on toychan women)
      That's right, and not dropping VOGs at single infantrymen !!!
      1. 5-9
        5-9 4 August 2020 17: 32
        +3
        Well, the bullet from the UAV on Toychan women is also a godly business ... But we were preparing, and still, for the Great War, and in it these things with 400 km / h speed are useless, and the resources are finite. Here we have patched the holes and we will adjust these.
  • kris_67
    kris_67 4 August 2020 13: 22
    0
    "During the report to the president" - well, well, let's see!
  • tarakan
    tarakan 4 August 2020 16: 22
    +3
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Wedmak
    Although Russia joined the drone race a little late, do not compare Hunter with Turkish ones, the famous Bayraktars are even nearby did not stand with our.

    Exactly. They don't stand, they fly and fight.

    Although the professor is "harmful", but for the comment is my plus wink
  • yfast
    yfast 4 August 2020 18: 57
    +2
    Quote: kjhg
    Are you talking about UAVs, fighters or aircraft carriers? You will decide, sir.

    Already decided. The round nozzle is no problem for Stells. Even on aircraft carriers.