Military Review

Tanks in the reeds. BT-5 at Fuentes de Ebro

357
Tanks in the reeds. BT-5 at Fuentes de Ebro

Church of San Miguel in Fuentes de Ebro


Ebro Army,
rumba la rumba la rumbaba,
crossed the river one night
ay, Carmela, ay, Carmela!

And the invading troops
rumba la rumba la rumbaba,
made very pale
ay, Carmela, ay, Carmela!
Aye, Carmela!

These are the first verses from the Spanish folk song Carmela (with an emphasis on the first syllable), sung by soldiers of the Republican Armed Forces who fought Franco's troops during the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939).

[right] “Be unquenchable to the enemy, do not call for reconciliation, you are the winner; God is with you, he will not leave your exploits without reward ”.

Muhammad, verse 37.


Behind the pages of the civil wars. People have never loved, and today they do not like to be deceived. Yes, but how to combine lies and truth in messages from the theater of war, when with all your might you need to raise patriotism and faith in your coming victory? To write that “everything is fine with us”, while our enemies “everything is bad”? So in the 30s of the twentieth century, when the civil war began in Spain, the Soviet press took just such a path. And according to the newspapers it turned out that the Republicans of the Franco nationalists all the time win, they surrender in large numbers, but then for some reason they themselves suffer one defeat after another and retreat. This aroused distrust of the press, people understood that something was not being told to them, but they really could not find out anything. However, time passed, much of the secret then today finally ceased to be such, and, of course, the secret of events near Fuentes de Ebro, where in 1937 the most impressive tank attack for the whole history wars in Spain. We also note that the history of the Spanish Civil War traditionally arouses great interest among the readers of the Military Review, so today we will again turn to this topic.


Soldiers of the people's militia in the trenches near Madrid

Preparation for military action


And it so happened that already in October 1936, the Soviet Union supplied the Spanish Republic with T-26 tanks, which played a decisive role in the defense of Madrid. Before that, the Republicans exclaimed: "Oh, if we had tanks!" Now they have tanks, they helped the Republicans to defend Madrid and immediately caused a flurry of complaints from them: the engine's power is not enough, the suspension is not very reliable, and most importantly, the speed is low. For the Spaniards, speed was generally something critical. They drove their cars in such a way that our military advisers were simply breathtaking, and during the battles in Barcelona taxi drivers accelerated their cars and ... rammed the barricades of nationalists at top speed.


Area around Fuentes de Ebro: reed beds and irrigation canals. In the distance there are ruins - the height dominating over the city ...

Therefore, on February 5, 1937, at a meeting in the Kremlin, where Soviet military specialists who had just returned from Spain were invited, it was decided that it was necessary to supply the Republicans with now not T-26, but high-speed BT-5 tanks. However, only on July 24, 1937, the Spanish transport "Cabo San Augustin", on board of which 50 BT-5 tanks were loaded, was able to leave Sevastopol, but only six days later, on August 1, it was already in the port of Cartagena. Together with the tanks, a group of five Soviet military specialists, headed by A.A.Vetrov, also arrived on the ship. As for the future commander of this tank detachment, Colonel S. I. Kondratyev, he and the bulk of the tankers sailed to Spain from Leningrad.


Armored vehicles of the Spanish trade unions

Immediately upon arrival, Vetrov and his comrades had to work hard: they had to drive all the BT-5 tanks from Cartagena to Archena, to the Republican tank forces training center, where the main group of Soviet tankmen arrived later. It was decided to create the 1st separate international tank regiment - "the regiment of heavy tanks", as the Spaniards called it. Both the Spaniards and foreign volunteers were to become members of the tank crews. But the commanders of the vehicles, as well as their driver-mechanics, were mainly Soviet officers, as they were more experienced.


Hero of the Defense of Madrid - Soviet T-26

However, the tankers, alas, did not have to spend enough time on training. Already at the end of September, the regiment received an order to relocate to Catalonia on the Aragon front. For two and a half days, the tanks made a 630-kilometer march (both on wheels and tracks), and already at dawn on October 13, 1937, they were 10 km southeast of the small town of Fuentes de Ebro, which lay in the lower reaches the Ebro river.

The forces of the parties


The reasons for this rush were not so much military as political. Military setbacks undermined popular confidence in the Republican government, so it was important to achieve at least some success on one of the fronts. Since it was obvious that the incoming from the USSR: the T-26 and BT-5 cannon tanks had a clear superiority over the machine-gun tanks of the Germans and Italians, the decision to strike at the nationalists with the forces of tanks was just as obvious. It was decided to start a massive offensive on the Aragonese front - to recapture the small town of Fuentes de Ebro, through which a strategically very important road to Zaragoza passed (only 50 km were left from it to it). The offensive was to be commanded by General Karel Sverchevsky, a Pole by nationality who operated in Spain under the pseudonym General Walter. He was assigned the 15th International Brigade, which included four infantry battalions of 600 people each, and one battery of anti-tank guns, commanded by Croat Vladimir Kopik, who fought in the ranks of the Austro-Hungarian army back in the First World War. The most “fired” in the brigade were the fighters of the British volunteer battalion, which included three infantry companies armed with Mosin rifles, as well as a machine-gun company with Degtyarev light machine guns and “Maxims”. However, half of its population was Spanish. The American Lincoln-Washington Battalion was the second largest in size and combat experience. His fighters were called Lincolns. McPaps (short for MacKenzie - Papineau, two leaders of the uprising in Canada against British rule in 1837) nicknamed the volunteers from the Canadian battalion.


T-26, captured by nationalists, already with their identification marks applied to it

When on August 10, 1937, fifty BT-5 tanks arrived at the front, a "regiment of heavy tanks" was created from them, which included a company of armored cars and a company of anti-tank guns. BT-5. The regiment was to be commanded by Lieutenant Colonel S. Kondratyev. Most of his officers and tank crews were Russians, or more correctly, Soviet, and his deputy was a Bulgarian. The regiment had three companies, each with three sections, and each section with five tanks. The command tanks had radio stations and handrail antennas visible on the towers, as well as white square or rectangular signs painted on the towers, but for the most part the tankers identified each other's tanks by the numbers on the towers.


T-26, turned by nationalists into an altar for mass!

As for the nationalists, in the Aragonese direction, the Republican forces were opposed by the 5th corps, whose forces were located in the cities of Belchite and Fuentes, around which all-round defense lines were created. The Fuentes de Ebro garrison was part of the 52nd Division and consisted of three companies from the 17th Infantry Regiment, the Spanish Phalanx militia company (which had poor combat experience and therefore was in the second echelon of defense) and an artillery battery of light cannons 10 th artillery regiment. However, before the Republican offensive, the city's garrison was strengthened. Three army divisions, the Italian-Spanish Blue Arrows brigade were sent here, as well as three "camps" of Moroccan troops, including their cavalry, one battalion of the Foreign Legion and four artillery batteries armed with guns of caliber 65, 75, 105 and 155 mm ... Such efficiency, most likely, suggests that the plans of the republican command were known to the nationalists, that is, the "fifth column" at the headquarters of the Aragonese front acted very quickly! Thus, the Republicans who were preparing to attack did not have an advantage over the enemy in manpower, as well as in artillery. Their only trump card, which the nationalists had nothing to oppose, were 50 Soviet BT-5 tanks. With this strength, the Republicans, in principle, with their correct use, had a certain chance of success.


The POUM fighters had a particularly hard time: they were beaten by both nationalists and ... their own!

Republican plans


However, the plan for the future operation was developed in a hurry, so that many factors that could affect its success were not taken into account. So, initially it was planned to surround the city with flank attacks with the forces of tank groups, that is, to take it in pincers. But aviation nationalists destroyed a transport convoy with a supply of fuel and ammunition, and the element of surprise was clearly lost. Instead of this plan, which apparently became known to the enemy, they decided to storm the city with a frontal attack of tanks and infantry, relying on the support of artillery and aviation.


Participants of those tragic events: the T-26 tank and the Italian Ansaldo tankette. Fig. A. Shepsa

They thought of putting a landing party on the tanks, which, in theory, was supposed to strike the Francoists from the rear after the tanks broke through the fortified strip. However, nowhere was this idea previously tried in practice, the effectiveness of such actions was not tested, and, most importantly, the interaction of tankers with infantrymen was never worked out until the very beginning of the offensive. That is, everything was done on Spanish soil, but maybe in Russian: maybe we will break through!


There were many women in the ranks of the republican army and militia ...

It should be said that the participants in the upcoming attack were exhausted by the previous fierce battles for Belchite. The factor that the brigade was international, and the moral and political situation in it was very contradictory, also played a negative role, which most negatively reflected the brigade's readiness to participate in the offensive. There were disagreements among the officers of the Republican headquarters, but, despite all these circumstances, it was decided to attack.


Expressive republican poster

To be continued ...
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 05: 32 New
    11
    No pasaran!
    Vyacheslav Olegovich thank you !!!
    Just in time for breakfast!
    1. My address
      My address 9 August 2020 06: 52 New
      28
      You know, Vladislav, but I didn't like it. First, there is no preliminary analysis of what a former employee of the department of the history of the CPSU should have done. Well, as usual, the author's Soviet is bad.

      Forty years ago, I realized that a good teacher with a salary of 120-160 is more important than a good foreman with a salary of 250-300. And the author once wrote in his memoirs that the pedagogical institute where he studied is a "pedagogue". This can be written very much ...
      For your information: I am proud of my alma mater - UPI them. S.M. Kirov. We called the Sverdlovsk Pedagogical Institute a ped only for brevity, and many chose the graduates of the ped as a wife.
      Earlier, the VO was actively attended by the moderator, Marshal Alexander Romanov, who was critical of the Soviet period of the country. I compare Romanov, who consistently defends his opinion, and the intellectual, who called the pedagogical, where he studied, a "pedagogue", and the one who gags the Communist Party, due to which he had his own piece of bread until the 90s. Romanov is a tough opponent (we also had mutual insults), but logical, he will not spit into the well from which he drank and will not shoot in the back.
      I had a difficult relationship with the Komsomol and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, but I consider the Soviet period the best for the country.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 9 August 2020 08: 15 New
        +6
        And I also liked this:
        " Командовать наступлением должен был генерал Карел Сверчевский, поляк по национальности, который действовал в Испании под псевдонимом Генерал Вальтер."
        But:
        " То есть все делалось на испанской земле, но на русский авось: авось прорвемся!"
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 9 August 2020 10: 28 New
          +8
          Quote: mat-vey
          But:
          " То есть все делалось на испанской земле, но на русский авось: авось прорвемся!"

          Spanish maybe not less, at least hi
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 9 August 2020 10: 33 New
            +7
            Quote: Stirbjorn
            Quote: mat-vey
            But:
            " То есть все делалось на испанской земле, но на русский авось: авось прорвемся!"

            Spanish maybe not less, at least hi

            Да все одинаковые ... а из стран с тёплым климатом подавно - нет дисциплинирующего фактора "зима".
            And the number of Russians (Soviet) there was far from determining the number ... it just amazes this desire always and everywhere, with or without a reason to insert hairpins ...
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 9 August 2020 10: 40 New
              +6
              Yes, come on, Matvey! There were also anarchists, and not in the last roles.
              * Anarchy is the mother of order! *. laughing
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 9 August 2020 10: 44 New
                +1
                Quote: Phil77
                Yes, come on, Matvey! There were also anarchists, and not in the last roles.
                * Anarchy is the mother of order! *. laughing

                But what am I? I am nothing ... just that there was something about a stone ... like a very authoritative and practically sinless said ... that it would not be a sin for any denunciators and disrupters to remember ...
                1. Astra wild
                  Astra wild 9 August 2020 15: 37 New
                  +4
                  Коллега Матвей ,Вы вспомнили историю:"Христос и блудница"? Пусть первым в нее бросит камень -кто совершенно без греха.
                  All the same, Christ took a risk, but what if one of the elders hated her very much?
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 9 August 2020 15: 54 New
                    0
                    Quote: Astra wild
                    All the same, Christ took a risk, but what if one of the elders hated her very much?

                    Well, then this parable would not exist ...
            2. Dr. Frankenstucker
              Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 11: 29 New
              +2
              Quote: mat-vey
              And the number of Russians (Soviet) was far from determining.


              it’s not a matter of quantity, but of a hierarchy. After the failure of the Aragonese Front, Minister Prieto blamed the defeat on Soviet advisers (sorry for the tautalogy). Which is partly true.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 9 August 2020 11: 33 New
                +5
                Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
                Minister Prieto blamed the defeat on Soviet advisers (sorry for the tautalogy)

                Well, not on yourself, then in the end ...
                Sorry for the arrogance - you seem to have a question more than the level of simple interest ... what have you screwed up?
                1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                  Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 12: 56 New
                  +5
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  Well, not on yourself, then in the end ...

                  of course) Moreover, General Posas was such a cunning friend (at least take Enrique Lister's memories of the Aragonese events). Yes, and Kulik remembered him with an unkind word even during the defense of Madrid.
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 9 August 2020 12: 59 New
                    0
                    Well, and all the same, no matter how noble-honored guest you are, the main role is played by the local climate ..
                    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                      Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 13: 50 New
                      +5
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      Well, and all the same, no matter how noble-honored guest you are, the main role is played by the local climate ..

                      справедливо) Вообще у наших военных советников было незавидное положение в этом испанском бардаке, это да. В Мадриде Кулик лично водил людей в атаки, хотя по статусу советника это было категорически запрещено. В принципе, план наступления на Сарагосу (четырьмя группами Восточной армии прорвать оборону в семи местах на 100км фронте) был логичен и не так уж и плох, учитывая четырёхкратный перевес республиканцев в силах. Но Посас офоршмачился. И, конечно, упорство франкистов - тут им надо отдать должное, доходило до фанатизма - чего стоит только лозунг на деревенских воротах в Кодо - "За каждого красного, которого вы убиваете, одним годом чистилища меньше ". Эту деревушку обороняли 300 карлистов против двух республиканских бригад численностью 2000 штыков.
                      1. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 9 August 2020 13: 59 New
                        0
                        Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
                        In general, our military advisers had an unenviable position in this Spanish mess, yes.

                        мне тут как то про ,скажем так про "трудовые будни" наших советников в Африке слышать приходилось ...
                      2. Dr. Frankenstucker
                        Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 14: 01 New
                        +1
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        про "трудовые будни" наших советников в Африке слышать приходилось ...

                        Angola?
                      3. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 9 August 2020 14: 11 New
                        +1
                        She is the most ...
                  2. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 10 August 2020 21: 47 New
                    0
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
                    And, of course, the stubbornness of the Francoists - here they must be given their due, it came to fanaticism -
                    maybe love for the Motherland? see how they fought in Toledo!
        2. gsev
          gsev 9 August 2020 18: 59 New
          0
          Quote: mat-vey
          Yes, they are all the same ... and even from countries with a warm climate

          At the military department, students of Stankin in the 1980s were informed that a descendant of the military aristocracy rather than a native of the workers and peasants becomes a good officer.
      2. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 13: 22 New
        +3
        Quote: Stirbjorn
        Spanish maybe not less, at least

        мне у Мерецкова в воспоминаниях понравилось - вот точно "война войной, а обед по расписанию" - как подходило время жрать, герильерос орали "Трапезааааа!!!" - и бой прекращался на обеденный перерыв)
    2. Crane
      Crane 9 August 2020 18: 15 New
      +2
      Chapaev and Petka are fighting in Spain.
      - Petka, what kind of shouts, who are the people greeting there?
      - Some kind of f ***** Dolores!
      - Well, why is she yelling?
      - Кричит: "Лучше стоя, чем на коленях!"
      1. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 21: 01 New
        0
        Not funny, you know. Absolutely.
  2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 08: 41 New
    +4
    With all due respect, what does this have to do with the Author's real work?
    By the way, I am ready for constructive criticism and discussion on the topic, so at one time I was specifically interested in a particular event. According to Vyacheslav, today is another smear to continue the topic. The preliminary analysis was three weeks ago.
    Regarding the Sverdlovsk UPI and Peda. For all my wounded middle Ural pride of the Federal State University named after the first president of the Russian Federation, Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin, is far from an honorable last place among federal universities. Being named after Kirov, he was always included in the top 3-5 best universities in a much more extensive country of the USSR. I do not want to belittle its graduates and the teaching staff at all (by the way, the child is entering this university this year, and he himself periodically taught at it five to ten years ago).
    Regarding the SPI (USPU), if objectively until the 00's the strongest pedagogical university, is currently losing ground and if it is no longer weaker than the SIPI (RGPU). Graduates of those last years are a real hack. Words are not mine, their colleagues at school. As for the wives, a lot is debatable! For me "pedagogues" were very accessible and "wild-free" disposition. We were simpler, we somehow got along with a "teapot" (Tchaikovsky Music College). Well, here the taste and color of a friend is not.
    About the attitude to the place of work. Let it stay - it's on Vyacheslav's conscience. About five years ago I was specially interested in it - it was dashing there, our Author was saved by the rector more than once or twice.
    By profession, a teacher is a vocation, not a profession! Alas, in a real school, a teacher is the lot of random people. How do you like a labor teacher (woman) teaching life safety a way to navigate by the clock and not knowing that in Russia time is not translated as five or six years !!! So, getting knowledge at school depends on the luck of luck or unlucky with the teacher !!!
    And so, I am glad to discuss with my fellow countryman !!!
    Regards, Vlad!
    1. My address
      My address 9 August 2020 10: 43 New
      +7
      hi
      Я учился в УПИ в 60-х. Не буду хвастать факультетом, похвастаюсь институтом. Зав. кафедрой, профессор, доктор, лауреат рассказал мнение Косыгина о качестве выпускников ВУЗов страны. Косыгин хвалил МФТИ, московский физтех, МИФИ, ЛЭТИ, естественно МГУ и ещё несколько. А про УПИ сказал просто и необычно для советского деятеля: "УПИ - это фирма". Наш проф после того московского совещания чуть не летал аки орёл! А халтура сейчас повсеместна. Обоснованно считаю, что теперешняя молодёжь способнее нас (это естественно, ведь объём знаний у молодёжи гораздо больший), но толку от этого, если способности не переходят в интеллект из-за многих причин.
      My previous commentary has the most direct relation to the author's work - where is the analysis, albeit biased and one-sided, why, why, how, etc.? What, you need to rummage through the works of the author? And my opinion is that a real intellectual will never stoop to considering the problem not only in space, but also in time, and will not make a link, this is not a royal business! I am not one of the intellectuals, the current intellectuals are the descendants of Vasisualiy Lokhankin. I'm an engineer. By the way, I do not include good writers among intellectuals: Ilf and Petrov, Saltykov-Shchedrin, Gogol and Konetsky, and many more. Similarly for music.
      And by vocation. I disagree. We must plow. Took to work, so be so kind as to conscientiously fulfill your duties, over time you will start to like everything and become a cool professional. Interesting things can be found everywhere, Lenin rightly noted that the electron is just as inexhaustible as the world. Brains, like muscles, can be developed at any age, just the older, the more difficult. ...
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 9 August 2020 11: 36 New
        +9
        Lenin correctly noted that the electron is just as inexhaustible as the world.

        Ленин писал "электрон так же неисчерпаем, как и атом", работа 1908 года "Материализм и эмпириокритицизм", ПСС (тёмно синий том) т. 18. Величайшая философская работа, которую написал человек с юридическим образованием. Когда знаменитые физики мирового уровня были в панике "Материя исчезла!", человек с юридическим дипломом Казанского университета аргументированно заявил: "Исчезла не материя, исчезло прежнее представление о ней!" Это я Вам как выпускник МФТИ говорю. Ну а автор, судя по-всему, ни в какой ВУЗ после школы поступить не смог, а в Пединституте проходной балл не самый высокий. Но далеко не каждый выпускник пединститута будет гадить на советское прошлое, тут уникальный случай.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 9 August 2020 12: 19 New
          +4
          Quote: Aviator_
          Well, the author, apparently, could not enter any university after school, and at the Pedagogical Institute the passing score is not the highest

          Такая как бы сказать .... ну во общем - "ума нет - иди в пед,стыда нет - иди в мед,коли нет ни тех ни тех - поступайте в политех"
        2. DrEng527
          DrEng527 10 August 2020 21: 55 New
          0
          Quote: Aviator_
          a person with a law degree from Kazan University stated reasonably:

          it is a pity that you do not know the banal - VIL as an external student received a diploma from St. Petersburg University, and the diploma does not have the correct patronymic bully
      2. Doliva63
        Doliva63 9 August 2020 18: 06 New
        +4
        "Не буду хвастать факультетом..."
        Ужто Физтех? Ибо - "...хвалил МФТИ, московский физтех, МИФИ...".
        1. DrEng527
          DrEng527 10 August 2020 21: 56 New
          +2
          Quote: Doliva63
          What is Phystech?

          undoubtedly! bully
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 11 August 2020 19: 43 New
            +1
            Quote: DrEng527
            Quote: Doliva63
            What is Phystech?

            undoubtedly! bully

            Yes, there was a time when Phystech UPI was one of the first. drinks
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 13 August 2020 17: 54 New
              +1
              Quote: Doliva63
              Yes, there was a time to

              getting old - grumbling? wink
              1. Doliva63
                Doliva63 13 August 2020 19: 08 New
                0
                Quote: DrEng527
                Quote: Doliva63
                Yes, there was a time to

                getting old - grumbling? wink

                We have the right laughing drinks
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 11 August 2020 08: 12 New
          +2
          Не хвастаю, констатирую - Факультет Аэромеханики и Летательной Техники Московского ордена Трудового Красного Знамени Московского Физико-Технического Института. Кого и что там хвалил Косыгин - дело десятое, именно из-за Косыгина МФТИ был организован не в Москве, а в Подмосковье - не захотел он здания отдавать, которые занимал Текстильный Институт в начале 50-х.(см. воспоминания первого ректора МФТИ И.Ф. Петрова "Авиация и вся жизнь". Кстати, И.Ф. Петров был в числе матросов, штурмовавших Зимний в 1917 году)
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 11 August 2020 19: 47 New
            0
            "Кстати, И.Ф. Петров был в числе матросов, штурмовавших Зимний в 1917 году"
            Хренасе, какой "лифт" был в Союзе:из матросов - в ректоры МФТИ! laughing
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 11 August 2020 20: 32 New
              +2
              Не сразу. Сначала - лётчик, потом - лётчик-испытатель НИИ ВВС, затем - начальник ЦАГИ, после - начальник ЛИИ, только после ухода в отставку стал инициатором (одним из) создания МФТИ. У меня была статья о нём в "Технике-Молодёжи" лет 10 назад. Называлась: "Знает ли товарищ Сталин, что Петров затеял в ЦАГИ?"
              1. Doliva63
                Doliva63 12 August 2020 18: 12 New
                +2
                Quote: Aviator_
                Не сразу. Сначала - лётчик, потом - лётчик-испытатель НИИ ВВС, затем - начальник ЦАГИ, после - начальник ЛИИ, только после ухода в отставку стал инициатором (одним из) создания МФТИ. У меня была статья о нём в "Технике-Молодёжи" лет 10 назад. Называлась: "Знает ли товарищ Сталин, что Петров затеял в ЦАГИ?"

                Finally super! An ordinary sailor - the head of the TsAGI and LII! laughingА Ильич сомневался, может ли "кухарка" управлять государством! laughing A generation that could do anything! drinks Is TM still alive? Somewhere I have a subscription from 64th to 81st. hi
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 12 August 2020 20: 58 New
                  +1
                  In the early 2004s, she was alive, although life was difficult. The article was in TM for November 80. I reworked I.F. Petrov, removed inaccuracies. Ivan Fedorovich himself wrote them at the age of 94. He died at the age of 80. The cook, indeed, if she is trained (as Lenin wrote in the original), the state will be able to govern - she has experience in managing the household of the family. But various poets and writers, such as Yevtushenoks and asphalt farmers of blueberries, spiritual leaders of the late XNUMXs, are generally unable to manage anything. Why are these talkers - while A.D. Sakharov was ruled by Kurchatov and Beria, he worked on an atomic project, and when the Zionist Bonner began to manage him, he completely showed his insignificance in all matters. You cannot elect a person as a deputy who is unable to make repairs in his own apartment. And then the whole country needed repairs. As for the social lift, Slavsky, a fighter of the First Cavalry Army, became Minister of Medium Machine Building, and Wrangel's machine gunner Aleksandrov became President of the USSR Academy of Sciences. He once wrote that the worst thing for him was when the lava of the Red cavalry was falling on him, and he had to wait until it approached the line of opening fire. It's good that they didn't kill each other then. Great time.
    2. Free wind
      Free wind 9 August 2020 11: 02 New
      +5
      Not your fellow countryman, of course, you will forgive. But a teacher is certainly a vocation, but are there many of them? Lot. But what do the realities do with them? You will not envy. who is to blame? Doctors, road workers, teachers. quite often everything is with dictaphones. The teacher broke off and shouted at the student. The student is 17 years old, the idiot is in the 5th grade. At school he mocks 10 year old classmates, tryndets, the teacher is to blame. Didn't instill a craving for knowledge. I myself know a man who, after grade 4, was drafted into the army. I'm not joking at all, I finished 4th grade, and in the fall I was called up, I was already 18 years old. well, he's stupid. He served, then somehow finished the courses of tractor drivers, and then everything became normal for him. Tell me which Makarenko will not give up after such a student. ... But about the methods of orientation, of course it would be interesting for me to chat. Of course, this is a remark about translating the clock. Kemerovo Region and Krasnoyarsk Territory in the same time zone, from west to east, stretch for more than 1500 km. On the border with the Novosibirsk region, south by the hour, will be far from the south, on the border with Yakutia. Krasnoyarsk Territory borders Yakutia, the difference is 2 hours !. Just for yourself, you need to determine where the astronomical noon is, what time is it on the clock when the Sun is in the south.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 9 August 2020 11: 41 New
        +4
        you need to determine where the astronomical noon is, what time is it on the clock when the sun is in the south.

        Stick a stick into the ground on a sunny day, during its shortest shadow there will be a local astronomical noon.
        1. Free wind
          Free wind 9 August 2020 11: 48 New
          +5
          At 15.00 I need to find the south. Where there is not a lot of moss on the tree, it means north. There is no moss on the palm, which means south.
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 9 August 2020 11: 50 New
            +8
            You can still wait for autumn. Where the geese fly, there is the south.
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 12: 14 New
            +4
            Quote: Free Wind
            At 15.00 I need to find the south. Where there is not a lot of moss on the tree, it means north. There is no moss on the palm, which means south.


            Quote: Aviator_
            You can still wait for autumn. Where the geese fly, there is the south.


            Well guys give it!
            It is not easier to wait for spring and go out to the village on the Or March cats! The truth will have to dodge the hungry wolves. But then my grandmother said in two who from whom would make legs for six months living in the forest. You are from them or they are from you !!! lol
            1. Free wind
              Free wind 9 August 2020 12: 39 New
              +7
              It remains to determine when it is spring, if you do not have a calendar. Find a den, being careful not to wake the bear to watch him. If it sucks its paw, it is winter. If it sucks ... ahem .. then spring is on its way.
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 9 August 2020 19: 03 New
              +4
              Truth has to dodge hungry wolf
              If I have to starve in the taiga, I will kill a couple of wolf leaders and lead the pack.
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 19: 13 New
                +3
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Truth has to dodge hungry wolf
                If I have to starve in the taiga, I will kill a couple of wolf leaders and lead the pack.

                So the plan for kittens for March can be thwarted!
                I won't wish the enemy to see you my friend with two punchers for an advantage at the head of the pack of Wolves !!!
                laughing
                Such a gang floods into the village on a cat's op in March! And silence! Only cat's eyes from behind pipes, from antennas and trees (clap-clap)!
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 9 August 2020 19: 26 New
                  +4
                  Перфораторы здесь не играют. С собаками, волками, и прочими стайными песьеми, все просто. Установка одинаковая: или ты собака, или ты добыча. Другой вопрос, завоевать статус доминантного самца. Для этого не нужно оплодотворять всех самок стаи, достаточно регулярно "навешивать" молодым конкурентам.
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 20: 02 New
                    +3
                    Anton meets the wild wolf! laughing
                    My friend, once his tail, “why are you grinning gray teeth, substitute your butt now with your favorite puncher, we will treat them! wassat
                    From the history of the pack, the last chapter "Antonische the leader of the gray" !!! Epigraph. How to teach grays not to bite their teeth and proudly shake their tails!
                    My friend, just do not be offended by prancing !!!
                  2. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 9 August 2020 21: 16 New
                    +4
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    Другой вопрос, завоевать статус доминантного самца. Для этого не нужно оплодотворять всех самок стаи, достаточно регулярно "навешивать" молодым конкурентам.

                    Here, you can immediately see an experienced dog lover! drinks Как говаривал мой друг, кинолог: "Команда "Ко мне." подается в трех вариантах: "Ко мне.", "Ко мне!" и "Ко мне, [женщина с пониженной социальной ответственностью]!!!"." laughing
                  3. Doliva63
                    Doliva63 12 August 2020 18: 23 New
                    +1
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    Другой вопрос, завоевать статус доминантного самца. Для этого не нужно оплодотворять всех самок стаи, достаточно регулярно "навешивать" молодым конкурентам.

                    Here, you can immediately see an experienced dog lover! drinks Как говаривал мой друг, кинолог: "Команда "Ко мне." подается в трех вариантах: "Ко мне.", "Ко мне!" и "Ко мне, [женщина с пониженной социальной ответственностью]!!!"." laughing

                    I'm not an experienced dog lover, and even more so not a cynologist, but it's worth asking the question - do you want a tasty treat ?, and our cute, but very wayward bassinji is right there at my feet and faithfully looks into my eyes laughing drinks
                  4. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 12 August 2020 18: 54 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    I'm not an experienced dog lover, and even more so not a cynologist, but it's worth asking the question - do you want a tasty treat ?, and our cute, but very wayward bassinji is right there at my feet and faithfully looks into my eyes

                    А если вкусняшки в руках нет, а кругом весна... и у кобеля в голове крутится песня, типа: "мой половой рефлекс настроен был не сeкс.." (с)? lol
                  5. Doliva63
                    Doliva63 12 August 2020 19: 14 New
                    +1
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    I'm not an experienced dog lover, and even more so not a cynologist, but it's worth asking the question - do you want a tasty treat ?, and our cute, but very wayward bassinji is right there at my feet and faithfully looks into my eyes

                    А если вкусняшки в руках нет, а кругом весна... и у кобеля в голове крутится песня, типа: "мой половой рефлекс настроен был не сeкс.." (с)? lol

                    So how does my miracle know if I have a treat or not? And I right there - click! and on a leash. Alternative cynology! laughing
                  6. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 12 August 2020 20: 01 New
                    0
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    So how does my miracle know if I have a treat or not?

                    From your nose.
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    And I right there - click! and on a leash. Alternative cynology!

                    Вот именно, что альтернативная! С моим спаниелиной (Английский Коккер), воспитанным в духе советской школы служебнго собаководства, данный процесс выглядел так: "Лео!" (псина оглянулась) "Ко мне!" (молча, жестом). (подошел) Рядом! (опять жестом). (обошел меня сзади, и сел у левой ноги). После чего, я иду - Лео идет, как привязанный, возле левой ноги. Я остановился - он сел. И зачем воспитанной собаке нужен поводок?! laughing
                  7. Doliva63
                    Doliva63 12 August 2020 21: 47 New
                    +1
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    So how does my miracle know if I have a treat or not?

                    From your nose.
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    And I right there - click! and on a leash. Alternative cynology!

                    Вот именно, что альтернативная! С моим спаниелиной (Английский Коккер), воспитанным в духе советской школы служебнго собаководства, данный процесс выглядел так: "Лео!" (псина оглянулась) "Ко мне!" (молча, жестом). (подошел) Рядом! (опять жестом). (обошел меня сзади, и сел у левой ноги). После чего, я иду - Лео идет, как привязанный, возле левой ноги. Я остановился - он сел. И зачем воспитанной собаке нужен поводок?! laughing

                    Так было, когда в семье была восточно-европейская овчарка Аракс из первых поколений Красной звезды, наверное. Он в любой момент ждал команду. Любую. Я его только по фоткам знаю. Мать рассказывала, коляску со мной у магазина оставила, сказала - Аракс, охраняй! И какой-то подвыпивший мимо шёл. Пёс вскочил, дождался, когда расстояние между ним и коляской достигло длины руки, бросился и сбил грудью чувака в ближайшую яму. По фоткам - почти по пояс отцу ростом был. Много позже, уже когда сам служил, был у меня приятель, кинолог из военного питомника. Он мне показывал, как 2 собаки без участия человека находят кого надо и "упаковывают", так сказать. В лесу и в поле, конечно. Всё зависит от генов(породы) и от воспитания и дрессировки. Мне моего бассенджи дрессировать рука не поднималась никогда - только воспитание и убеждение laughing
    3. Phil77
      Phil77 9 August 2020 19: 32 New
      +1
      Oh, okay!
      * A wave is quietly splashing ... *?
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 9 August 2020 19: 38 New
        +1
        * the moon shines brightly ... *
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 20: 09 New
          +3
          Quote: Phil77
          Oh, okay!
          * A wave is quietly splashing ... *?

          Quote: Phil77
          * the moon shines brightly ... *

          Yes, a cat is sitting on the pipe near the antenna !!! drinks good
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 10 August 2020 04: 29 New
          +2
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Yes, a cat is sitting on the pipe near the antenna !!!

          And they sing, and they sing ... / meow? / good
        3. Phil77
          Phil77 10 August 2020 11: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: Phil77
          And they sing, and they sing ... / meow? /

          "Севастопольский вальс!Помнят все моряки!
          How can I forget you? Golden days ... *
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 10 August 2020 12: 04 New
        +2
        * On Malakhov Kurgan
        fog descended
        that night we came to the pier ..... *
        Georg Ots !!! Who can say that he is not ours ????
  3. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 9 August 2020 19: 38 New
    +3
    The wave can splash as much as you like, but I'm not afraid of wolves. There are significantly more boars. Bears, even more so!
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 August 2020 05: 21 New
      +3
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      The wave can splash as much as you like, but I'm not afraid of wolves. There are significantly more boars. Bears, even more so!

      The scariest animal in the forest is the elk!
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 10 August 2020 11: 18 New
      +2
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      The scariest animal in the forest is the elk!

      Rassomakha? Not an option?
    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 August 2020 11: 35 New
      +2
      Their range is north-west, in the forest did not come across !!!
    4. Phil77
      Phil77 10 August 2020 11: 39 New
      +2
      To be honest, I read about this beast at Bushkov's place, and he claims that it is not worse in the taiga.
    5. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 August 2020 17: 49 New
      +2
      Legends about the wolverine, I heard! But the audible must be divided by three!
  4. Doliva63
    Doliva63 12 August 2020 18: 39 New
    +2
    Во время службы часто встречал в лесу волков и кабанов. Нормальные животные - первые сразу куда-то испарялись, вторые оббегали по кругу и дальше шли. А вот лоси и прочие олени - сволочи. Они сразу по своей тропе обратно бегут. А там могут сидеть "сторожевые люди", которые видели, как до этого они по тропе неспешно двигались - и тут же делают вывод: там кто-то есть! Вот так однажды мы попали в засаду. sad
  5. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 12 August 2020 18: 47 New
    +1
    Я только раз в жизни видел медведя "на свежем воздухе". Повезло, что мишка был возрастом года полтора, "пестун", но впечатлений мне хватило по "самое не балуй"!
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 9 August 2020 15: 56 New
    +4
    Я ""малыша"возьму GPS -навигатор и не буду заморачиваться
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 9 August 2020 16: 00 New
      +2
      Madam, here is the question of how to determine the cardinal points without anything, and you are being clever here. love
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 9 August 2020 19: 07 New
        +4
        I have a request, dear. Do not be rude to the only adequate woman in this section of the resource. You are welcome!
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 18: 02 New
      +3
      Quote: Astra wild
      Я ""малыша"возьму GPS -навигатор и не буду заморачиваться

      Well, ethno is not according to the rules! laughing cats and geese are against !!! drinks
      Babu Yaga will be fed with something !!! love
      Dear Vera, forgive us for our chatter.
      After all, they began to discuss the problem of the paramount quality of education and upbringing at school !!!
      The level of teachers in the school is different, some children run to lessons, while others, on the contrary, run away even faster !!! In all my life I have skipped only one lesson in a music school "by specialty"! I was 15 minutes late, "the accordionist teacher has already had time for joy - to get hooked!"
      I know from my daughter that the ability to come to school, and most importantly to leave in a timely manner, clearly affects academic performance !!!
      By the way, what to say - being a humanities student by education (lawyer), I drove the physics teacher to the "electricity" section, and to the "OBZh" teacher, what is a cartographic snail!
      Sometimes it came to tears - at a class meeting, after accusing the children that they do not know geometric shapes, I extinguished the drawing teacher with a question from the OGE, what a "dodecahedron" is.
      It is impossible to know everything, but you can love your subject and business! Children, as a former teacher who chopped off 17 years at the university - I can say one thing, everyone who, regardless of age, sits down at the school desk automatically becomes a student! And then a matter of love for your work and subject! There is an axiom - the teacher does not get the mark on the exam! And most importantly, the student must realize why he received his grade !!!
      Good evening!
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 11: 52 New
    +5
    There is a good children's writer V. Krapivin, at the same time his namesake and fellow countryman. In his books, more than once or twice, he raised the question point-blank about education, not training. Alas, his books of half a century ago are still relevant today! My daughter more than once or twice came home in tears because of the bias, dishonesty, banal boorish attitude of teachers. By the way, he never left the school the responsibility of education. Their task is to teach, not even to teach, namely to teach - to give knowledge. Alas, for one worthy one there is a synonym for random and incompetent people. My daughter seemed to hang out with the primary school teacher. In fact, we chose it ourselves and were not mistaken. Then luck turned away from us and the class teacher, apart from nerves and tantrums, did not bring to my family. Then we got lucky again and our neighbor was great for the last two years. It's over this year. Until the grandchildren, naturally!
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 9 August 2020 12: 27 New
      +4
      All the same, the craving for knowledge should be laid down by the parents. If my little one, your why is running to you to ask something, or to tell you about your own, the discovery of the universe, I hope you did not dismiss them. The task of parents, in my opinion, is to maintain this curiosity. And teachers can help with this. The teacher teaches to read, then the student learns himself, the teacher helps him in this.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 9 August 2020 18: 19 New
        +2
        The teacher teaches to read, then the student learns himself, the teacher helps him in this.
        A bit wrong. A good teacher teaches you to read and tells you what to read.
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 9 August 2020 18: 13 New
      +2
      It's over this year. Until the grandchildren of course!
      Further, it will be more difficult ...
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 20: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        It's over this year. Until the grandchildren of course!
        Further, it will be more difficult ...

        But fortunately, the stage with the school is over !!!
    3. DrEng527
      DrEng527 10 August 2020 21: 58 New
      0
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      like me hung[b] [/ b] with a primary school teacher.

      I think you are exaggerating bully
  • Catfish
    Catfish 9 August 2020 14: 12 New
    +2
    Hello, hello! hi
    With all due respect, what does this have to do with the Author's real work?


    Да абсолютно никакого! По известному принципу: " Пусть я в четвёртый раз отсижу пятнадцать суток, но я тебе блызну!" laughing Так, по-моему выразился "герой" Райкина в какой-то миниатюре. smile
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 9 August 2020 16: 05 New
      +4
      I don't like Raikin and his little sons, corrupt people. For a penny in the church will fart.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 9 August 2020 16: 16 New
        +2
        I don't like my health either, only he did not write the texts himself, completely different people did it.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 16: 07 New
      +3
      I support Konstantin! good
  • kalibr
    9 August 2020 16: 35 New
    +2
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    our Author was saved more than once or twice by the rector himself.

    This is the first time I've heard of this ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 18: 07 New
      +1
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      our Author was saved more than once or twice by the rector himself.

      This is the first time I've heard of this ...

      Vyacheslav can cite the texts of discussions three and four years ago! In one you yourself reassured me that the rector understands you and he will not give you an offense. Although I can be confused, maybe it was about the vice-rector. recourse
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 August 2020 21: 51 New
    0
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    FGU them. the first president of the Russian Federation, Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin, is far from being an honorable last place among federal universities.

    oh, these pedagogical complexes bully The university is now called UrFU! According to Forbes, on the 5th place in the Russian Federation ... request request Streamline bully
  • Looking for
    Looking for 9 August 2020 14: 46 New
    +1
    Taki.kak shpakovsky always had their name-RENEGATES !!!
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 16: 17 New
      -1
      Taki.kak shpakovsky always had their name-RENEGATES !!!

      The question is, if you don’t screw up anyone in the comments - the day is wasted !!!
      In the distant Dadsad age, we called those like you “Shapoklyaks”. How is it that "Good deeds cannot be glorified" !!!
      Good day!
    2. Free wind
      Free wind 9 August 2020 16: 21 New
      +5
      Well, all the leadership is with us, renegades. They sang the praises of the USSR and Communism. Now they sing odes to capitalism. The cannibals will be in power, so they will creep under their feet. But all the same, the author indicates his position.
    3. kalibr
      9 August 2020 16: 37 New
      -3
      Цепляйтесь за свой Мордор, цепляйтесь. Но 91-ый как был так и останется. А пишите Вы из землянке партизанского отряда "НАЗАД В СССР",да? Борцун с рыжымом, да? И налоги не платите...
      1. cost
        cost 9 August 2020 17: 54 New
        +2
        I liked the article. Most of the comments are too. Thank.
        RS... Interesting moment
        Here is the banner of Republican Spain

        The three-pointed star on the banner signified the unity of all republican forces - anarchists, socialists, communists and democrats. But this is not at all Spanish know-how. It turns out that the originally three-pointed red star was the emblem of the Basel Congress of the First International in 1869 and meant the cooperation of socialists, anarchists and republican democrats around the world
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 9 August 2020 18: 32 New
        +4
        К слову, Вячеслав Олегович, Толкиен не ассоциировал СССР с "Мордором", в отличии от Хайнлайна, который посещал нашу страну, а Толкиен -нет.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 9 August 2020 15: 19 New
    +5
    "у меня были не простые отношения с ВЛКСМ",а я с 9 лет мечтала стать комсомолкой. Пошла в обком: знаю Устав(уже забыла),подобрала цитаты Ленина, твёрдая"хорошистка"("удов"-0,"отл"4), а инструктор был похабник и сказал,когда появятся груди тогда приходи. Я от возмущения написала письма: в ЦК ВЛКСМ и ЦК КПСС,но успела отправить. Настало моей мамочки.
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 9 August 2020 16: 14 New
      +2
      Madam, I can hardly digest this information, if what you say is true. It seems that any word spoken to children has been played a hundred times in the speaker's head. True, some turns of speech are alarming, are you sure you are writing? love
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 18: 16 New
        +3
        Using the method of scientific poking, adding obscene expressions to the text of the respected Vera, I get a logical, bright and colorful story.
        I myself did not become a member of the Komsomol, the Komsomol collapsed just before joining its ranks !!!
        It was also difficult for me with pioneering! repeat
        On Easter, they ate painted eggs with a friend, and foolishly confessed. soldier
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 9 August 2020 19: 12 New
          +3
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Using the method of scientific poking, adding obscene expressions to the text of the respected Vera, I get a logical, bright and colorful story

          * Lytsar * !!!! ¡ laughing
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 9 August 2020 19: 22 New
            +3
            Quote: Phil77
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Using the method of scientific poking, adding obscene expressions to the text of the respected Vera, I get a logical, bright and colorful story

            Well, really, beauty! Women's breasts? What och.occh.beautifully! And further down the text .... I drink ... and I fall into amazement, really!
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 10 August 2020 04: 13 New
          +2
          It happens. And I have a norm. The pioneers are in the Lenin Museum / the second batch, the first on Red Square was received /. Komsomol? In the regional committee. Was.
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 9 August 2020 20: 39 New
        +2
        Quote: Free Wind
        Madam, somehow I can hardly digest this information,

        To you, for this * Plusy *! From me, yes!
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 9 August 2020 19: 06 New
      +3
      Quote: Astra wild
      bawdy and said when the breasts will appear then come. Out of indignation, I wrote letters to the Central Committee of the Komsomol and the Central Committee of the CPSU, but I managed to send them. It's time for my mommy.
      Reply

      Faith! Excuse me, but .... a woman's breasts ... well, beautiful, censored !!!!!!
    3. Phil77
      Phil77 9 August 2020 20: 27 New
      +2
      Quote: Astra wild
      the instructor was bawdy and said when the breasts will appear then come. I wrote out of indignation

      And? Vera! Next !!!! The size?
    4. Phil77
      Phil77 9 August 2020 20: 32 New
      +2
      Quote: Astra wild
      out of indignation she wrote letters to the Central Committee of the Komsomol and the Central Committee of the CPSU, but managed to send them. It's time for my mommy

      This is not an instructor of the Central Committee of the Komsomol, but forgive, my sinful soul, well ...., you know who!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • kalibr
    9 August 2020 16: 46 New
    +2
    Quote: My address
    and won't shoot in the back.

    It all depends on the circumstances. It may also happen that a shot in your back will be the only chance for someone. As the saying goes, you'd better die today, and I'll die tomorrow!
  • IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 9 August 2020 18: 21 New
    +2
    Just don't make a noble nobleman out of Romanov. Romanov is a rare scum.
  • Dr. Frankenstucker
    Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 20: 22 New
    0
    ... First, there is no preliminary analysis,

    Вот это как раз хорошо. Не хватало ещё 'аналитики' от Шпаковского. Испанский узел в его изложении? Нет уж...
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 August 2020 21: 45 New
    0
    Quote: My address
    UPI them. S.M. Kirov.

    a worthy university, but I graduated from TPI named after SMK bully
    Quote: My address
    but I think the Soviet period is the best for the country.

    and in vain, there were some achievements, but in general - horror ...
  • VicktorVR
    VicktorVR 9 August 2020 05: 57 New
    +4
    И все-таки "они прошли" ...
    I read the memoirs of Russian participants in the war in Spain in the 30s, and the memoirs of Russian participants in the war in Yugoslavia in the 90s. It seemed that there was a lot in common in the attitude of the locals to the war, incl. a wide range of this attitude - from the willingness to die for a just cause, to complete indifference. In the interval there are grabbers and marauders, just gouges, careerists, politicians.
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 9 August 2020 07: 28 New
      +6
      Our pilots talked about the Spanish techies:
      "Всему быстро учатся и все быстро забывают".
      Therefore, often before departure, they themselves checked the hatches, necks, levels ...
  • Zeev zeev
    Zeev zeev 9 August 2020 06: 46 New
    +5
    У меня тут замечание насчёт "Кармелы"

    Ebro Army,
    rumba la rumba la rumbaba,
    crossed the river one night
    ay, Carmela, ay, Carmela!

    And the invading troops
    rumba la rumba la rumbaba,
    made very pale
    ay, Carmela, ay, Carmela!
    Aye, Carmela!

    This is the second version of the song created after the battles on the Ebro. The first option was somewhat different.
    "Мы сражаемся с маврами,
    rumba la rumba la rumbala,
    We are fighting the Moors
    rumba la rumba la rumbala,
    legionnaires and fascists,
    ay, Carmela, ay, Carmela!
    legionnaires and fascists,
    ай, Кармела, ай, Кармела!"
    1. cost
      cost 9 August 2020 14: 56 New
      +5
      ZeevZeev (Zeev) is absolutely right. Here is the original
      1. cost
        cost 9 August 2020 14: 59 New
        +3
        Хотя все таки наиболее массово популярней среди испанских республиканцев была песня "Si me quires escribir"
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 9 August 2020 18: 49 New
          +4
          But this is a class !!! Especially the guitar prelude!
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 9 August 2020 19: 52 New
          +4
          Dim! Nice !!!
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 9 August 2020 18: 46 New
        +4
        My regards! hi
        Хорошая кавер-версия, особенно в "басах", но видеоряд - откровенный "отстой"!
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 9 August 2020 19: 55 New
          +3
          The guitar is always beautiful !!!!!
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 9 August 2020 07: 31 New
    +7
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. Not that they would have discovered something new for me today, but refreshed my memory. As a child, I always regretted that the T - 28 and cannon I-16s were not sent to Spain ...
    Then I realized that it hardly helped. The main thing is people. And there was a split between citizens. Strong split.
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 9 August 2020 08: 27 New
      +5
      Happy Builder's Day! In principle, on the T-26, and on the BT-5, they fought against the regular army of Japan, in Mongolia, not the T-34 of course, but they fought and won. And in Spain who is not clear for whom. Spanish, Galician, Basque, Catalan. The Catalans and Galicians each demand secession from Spain. Franco from Africa pinned, interestingly took the blacks with him, no. Plus, many volunteers from different countries fought, maybe there was a language barrier.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 09: 22 New
        +3
        ... Franco from Africa pinned, interestingly took the blacks with him, no. Plus, many volunteers from different countries fought, maybe there was a language barrier.

        Grabbed, only the Moors! In the initial period, the most persistent and inapplicable opponents of the Republicans. Sometimes they rushed at the tanks with bayonets.
    2. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 11: 11 New
      +1
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      and cannon I-16 ...

      well, in 1937 there were only 6 cannon I-12s. 10 built. And Type 17 was already late for the war. His state tests, it seems, took place in 1939. In general, some argue that both Type 12 and Type 17 were allegedly tested in Spain, but something is hard to believe. There is no documentary evidence of this, kmk.
      regretted that the T - 28 was not sent to Spain

      why is he in Spain?
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 9 August 2020 11: 33 New
        +2
        I won't tell you by type, but it was a request from our pilots. It seems that the Yu 52 was difficult to get off. The power of the rifle caliber was not enough.
        Moreover, Polikarpov seemed to react promptly and even said that there were prototypes of such a machine. But the topic was discussed and considered unnecessary.
        1. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 12: 04 New
          +2
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          Moreover, Polikarpov seemed to react promptly and even said that there were prototypes of such a machine. But the topic was discussed and considered unnecessary.

          он ещё до событий в Испании в апреле 36-го предложил свой вариант пушечного "ишака". Когда война началась, И-16П уже испытывали. Но вышел он не ахти какой, вроде. Медленнее и с изменившейся аэродинамикой. К тому же, ШВАКи были, мягко говоря, так себе. Военные требовали довести надёжность пушек "хотя бы" до 3 тыс. выстрелов.
          1. Astra wild
            Astra wild 9 August 2020 16: 19 New
            +3
            The site had a cycle of stories about Soviet aircraft and there was about Polikarpov's aircraft
  • Avior
    Avior 9 August 2020 07: 58 New
    +3
    The people's militia in the trenches in the second photo above looks interesting, especially two things.
    Firstly, the girl from the police who holds the gun by the butt seems to have picked it up for the first time, and her gun itself is short and incomprehensible. Will someone tell me what kind of weapon she is in her hands?
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 9 August 2020 08: 21 New
      +5
      Тут ещё ракурс не совсем удачный, но мне кажется, что "короткий ли Энфилд"... Он, реально короткий был, чуть больше метра и такой же "ый". Но не клянусь!
    2. Zeev zeev
      Zeev zeev 9 August 2020 08: 30 New
      +7
      Spanish Mauser M1895 carbine.
      1. Avior
        Avior 9 August 2020 09: 43 New
        +5
        Thank you, he
        The 1916 model has a ramrod sticking out, it confused me.
      2. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 9 August 2020 09: 49 New
        +4
        Exactly! I admit I'm wrong)))
      3. Stas1973
        Stas1973 9 August 2020 12: 34 New
        +1
        Oh well. Lee-Endfield English, I won't tell you the modification
        1. Zeev zeev
          Zeev zeev 9 August 2020 13: 22 New
          +3
          Нет, это не "Ли-Энфилд"
    3. Phil77
      Phil77 9 August 2020 09: 17 New
      +6
      And I liked the second one on the right! wink
      And I like the comments so far!
      Good morning everyone!
      1. Avior
        Avior 9 August 2020 09: 36 New
        +4
        Me too smile
        But I'm talking about another picture.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 9 August 2020 09: 53 New
          +4
          Ha, ha, ha !!!! Again, you can think a lot! About the * ramrod * and * sticking out * !!!!! Sorry, the mood .... playful!
          Thanks to the author! No passaran! You- * Plusy * !!!! hi
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 9 August 2020 10: 03 New
          +3
          And the third, in a beret! Also very, very, very! Good! good
        3. Phil77
          Phil77 9 August 2020 10: 21 New
          +3
          And she looks very much like Carmen Orive-Abad! Mother Valery Kharlamov!
    4. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 9 August 2020 09: 43 New
      +3
      A large number of photographs of the Spanish Civil War are staged.
      1. Avior
        Avior 9 August 2020 09: 52 New
        +5
        The staging character is understandable, but the girl in the photo clearly did not hold weapons in her hands before, but her face is tense, as in battle, very expressive, the cape and cap with a tassel and especially the cape look unnatural and like an attempt to carefully hide her clothes.
        Although nearby the police are dressed in civilian clothes.
        Apparently, the clothes did not fit into the frame with the weapon. Evening Dress?
        Perhaps the actress, who was brought in for a profitable photo, was not very common at that time, and to play with the tension in such a way, you need skills.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 9 August 2020 10: 11 New
          +3
          Evening Dress?
          Perhaps a dress, but hardly an evening one. I saw several photographs of Republicans in ordinary everyday clothes. As for the cape, the battles for Madrid took place from October to the end of March. The average daily temperature in January is 5-10 Celsius, that is, it is not hot at all.
          1. Avior
            Avior 9 August 2020 11: 51 New
            +1
            Somehow the cape, which is carefully wrapped around, so that you can't see what's underneath, plus the cap with a tassel, plus the way she holds the carbine, suggested that they were taking a motivating picture with some lady who did not participate in the police.
            But I could be wrong, of course.
            hi
          2. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 14: 29 New
            +1
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            As for the cape, the battles for Madrid took place from October to the end of March. The average daily temperature in January is 5-10 Celsius, that is, it is not hot at all.

            and even considering that the photo was taken in the Sierra de Guadarrama
        2. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 10: 42 New
          +2
          Sergey, apparently, the instructors did not finish their education)
          Pay attention to the frivolous shoes of the nearest lady)
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 9 August 2020 10: 51 New
            +3
            Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
            frivolous shoes of the nearest lady)

            Designer? Who is the shoe designer?
            1. Dr. Frankenstucker
              Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 11: 47 New
              +5
              Quote: Phil77
              Designer? Who is the shoe designer?

              belay
              guardians some kind of thread ... these were fashionable in Paris in the 20s ...
              in general, such a design was created under Louis the 15th)))))
            2. Free wind
              Free wind 9 August 2020 17: 10 New
              +1
              Aramagetyan? What kind? not ? Many of them appeared in due time. And yes, of course, a watch, you rarely see any dulcinea.
          2. Avior
            Avior 9 August 2020 11: 54 New
            +3
            Maybe they didn't finish their studies.
            As for the shoes, this is still not a picture in a trench, other ladies have some kind of white slippers on it, or something.
            1. Dr. Frankenstucker
              Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 12: 58 New
              +4
              Quote: Avior
              some kind of white slippers or something.

              these are not slippers, but espadrilles)
              1. Avior
                Avior 9 August 2020 13: 23 New
                +1
                Badly visible.
                It with
                Rope sole?
                The shoes are clearly not for trenches, like the lady in the foreground.
                1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                  Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 13: 32 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Avior
                  Shoes are clearly not for trenches

                  well hello pazhalsta ...
                  ))
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 9 August 2020 13: 37 New
                    +2
                    Why did I drag boots for two years?
                    Why didn't they say that it was possible anyway? smile
                    I'm afraid to discuss further, it will still turn out that they fought in model high-heeled shoes ...
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 9 August 2020 16: 35 New
                      +1
                      Why did I drag boots for two years?
                      К слову, где-то читал, что наши в Афганистане, тоже летом предпочитали кеды, если отцы-командиры не заморачивались с "уставщиной".
                      1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                        Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 16: 56 New
                        +2
                        ours in Afghanistan, also preferred sneakers in the summer

                        Sneakers)
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 9 August 2020 17: 09 New
                        0
                        И кроссовки тоже. Но кроссовки, в те времена, были "контрабандным товаром", преимущественно берегли до "дембеля".
          3. Phil77
            Phil77 9 August 2020 13: 18 New
            +3
            Eh, eagles! This is the classics of women's shoes !!!!!!
            1. Dr. Frankenstucker
              Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 13: 35 New
              +4
              Quote: Phil77
              Eh, eagles! This is the classics of women's shoes !!!!!!

              ehm ... female?
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 9 August 2020 15: 10 New
                +1
                Well, we're about ba .... / about /, about girls?
    5. cost
      cost 9 August 2020 15: 28 New
      +4
      [Quote] 3x3zsave: A large number of photographs of the Spanish Civil War are staged. [/ Quote]
      Anton is right. Non-staged photos of that war are rare. Here is a small selection of original, non-staged footage of that war, taken by French, German and Mexican correspondents








      1. cost
        cost 9 August 2020 15: 29 New
        +3
        Extension








        1. Avior
          Avior 9 August 2020 16: 14 New
          0
          And here questions arise
          For example, girls-snipers aim strangely, in very different directions, although for some reason they lie close together, and not everyone is aiming, some just smile - very similar not to the combat position of snipers, but to the usual posing for the camera.
          The journalist carries the child under fire, a soldier is walking nearby and it is not visible that he sees danger for himself in this situation. However, maybe someone misjudged her.
          The machine gun crew clearly poses for the picture, and what is sad is that the most vulnerable person in this situation is not covered from enemy bullets - the machine gunner, at which the enemy will shoot first.
          Sandbags cover anything and anyone, but not a machine gunner.
          And so on.
          hi
          1. cost
            cost 9 August 2020 16: 59 New
            +5
            Вот знаменитое фото агенства рейтер, в то время обошедшее почти все СМИ мира - "XI-я немецкая и XIII польская интербригады под командованием генерала Лукача срочно перебрасываются под Гвадалахару против прорвавшегося итальянского экспедиционного корпуса."

            In your opinion, also staged?
            1. Avior
              Avior 9 August 2020 20: 40 New
              +1
              In my opinion, no. Anyway, I don't see it. Well captured moment.
              And in general, the best photos are obtained when a person is snatched in motion, and not when he specially poses.
              Perhaps a great photographer can do this in a staged photo as well, but to recognize such my knowledge is not enough.
              Many of the photos from your previous list also did not give the impression of staged
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 9 August 2020 16: 25 New
    +2
    I also noticed that she was not holding the weapon correctly, but I thought that she had a PP
  • Free wind
    Free wind 9 August 2020 08: 11 New
    +3
    Well in the most interesting place wink
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 9 August 2020 10: 00 New
      +4
      Article? Girls in the photo and poster? Intrigue, damn it !!!! laughing
    2. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 10: 27 New
      +5
      Да ни фига особо интересного под Фуэнтес-де-Эбро не произошло, Ветер. Смешались в кучу танки, люди...Никакого "сражения" не было. Франкисты выбили артогнём 16 БТшек. Гораздо более интересно, имхо, теруэльская эпопея - это да. Тут и атаки, и пехота под гусеницами, и танковые засады в развалинах города, и дуэли с "копейками" PzKpfW I и табуретками "ансальдо". Капитан Сиротин и лейтенант Разгуляев - выше всяких похвал.
      Although, here in this photo - a Francoist at the captured BTshki in Teruel.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 9 August 2020 13: 04 New
        +2
        Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
        Да ни фига особо интересного под Фуэнтес-де-Эбро не произошло, Ветер. Смешались в кучу танки, люди...Никакого "сражения" не было. Франкисты выбили артогнём 16 БТшек. Гораздо более интересно, имхо, теруэльская эпопея - это да. Тут и атаки, и пехота под гусеницами, и танковые засады в развалинах города, и дуэли с "копейками" PzKpfW I и табуретками "ансальдо". Капитан Сиротин и лейтенант Разгуляев - выше всяких похвал.
        Although, here in this photo - a Francoist at the captured BTshki in Teruel.

        I don't know, really! But girly are good! Who is against?
  • svp67
    svp67 9 August 2020 08: 34 New
    +9
    however, for the most part, the tankers identified each other's tanks by the numbers on the turrets.
    Which is very surprising, since in the USSR a different system of tactical signs, with the help of various colors and lines, lasted until the Great Patriotic War.

    By order of the People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR No. 76 of February 12, 1931, identification and number plates of armored vehicles were installed. By the same order, it was forbidden to continue to apply any other signs and inscriptions to equipment.
    On all sides of the tower, in its upper part around it, a colored stripe 15 cm wide is applied.
    Colors:
    1st battalion brigade - red;
    2nd Brigade Battalion - White;
    3rd battalion brigade - black;
    4th Battalion Brigade-Blue;
    5th Brigade Battalion - Yellow.
    15cm lower. the second strip is applied, but intermittent with colors:
    1st company of the battalion - red;
    2nd company of the battalion - white;
    The 3rd company of the battalion is black;
    4th company of the battalion - blue;
    The 5th company of the battalion is yellow.
    To indicate the platoon below, on the free space of the left and right sides of the tower and behind the tower, a colored square measuring 40 by 40 cm is applied. and a line width of 8cm. Square line colors:
    1st platoon of the company - red;
    2nd platoon of the company - white;
    3rd platoon of the company - black;
    4th platoon of the company - blue;
    The 5th platoon of the company is yellow.
  • Dr. Frankenstucker
    Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 09: 10 New
    11
    Опять этот смешной графоманский зуд у Шпаковского. На кой растягивать бой у Фуэнтос де Эбро на несколько статей? И почему фото только Т-26? Потеряли 16 машин, часть из которых смогли восстановить и респ-цы, и франкисты.Батальон Агилы потерпел сокрушительное поражение, понеся огромные потери. И какие, нафиг, "в тростниках"? Это что, подражание Троепольскому? Тогда уж "в оливковых рощах", Шпаковский. Вот БТ-5 в оливках.


    here are the BT-5s captured by the nationalists the next day


    here are the burnt BT-5s near Fuentos de Ebro
    1. kalibr
      9 August 2020 16: 27 New
      +1
      A color photo under my nose ...
      1. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 21: 25 New
        0
        Under whose nose and photo of what?
        1. kalibr
          10 August 2020 11: 18 New
          +1
          Reed thickets near the city ...
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 9 August 2020 09: 39 New
    +6
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    All those involved - Happy Builder's Day!
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 9 August 2020 09: 49 New
      +2
      Damn! Damn! Damn! Forgotten !!!!!! Some cats on my mind! Happy Holidays, colleague! And yes, perhaps everyone!
      What is repair? Yes, everyone knows it! Not by hearsay! drinks
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 9 August 2020 09: 52 New
        +3
        Mutually, Sergey! good
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 10: 43 New
          +4
          Congratulations to all those involved !!! drinks
      2. Operator
        Operator 9 August 2020 12: 23 New
        -1
        What kind of repair - today is the day of the Builder, not the repairman bully
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 16: 22 New
          +1
          Andrey, well, in Russia, repairs begin with dismantling, and ends with long-term construction !!! laughing
          True, for some in high-rise buildings - eternal sluggish repairs !!! hi
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 9 August 2020 14: 19 New
      +3
      Anton, as the most involved, congratulations first of all! love drinks smile
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 9 August 2020 16: 27 New
        +3
        Thank you, Uncle Kostya!
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 9 August 2020 09: 46 New
    +3
    Ruins in the distance
    The ruins were very interesting.
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 9 August 2020 10: 59 New
      +3
      Did they use the * Makita * rotary hammer?, Or did they use * Bosch *? hi
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 9 August 2020 11: 03 New
        +3
        Думаю, "Феллисати"
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 9 August 2020 11: 07 New
          +3
          No, we do not use. Makita option.
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 9 August 2020 11: 18 New
          +3
          Haven't heard of him.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 9 August 2020 12: 05 New
            +2
            "Феллисати" - испанский брэнд. Компания основана в 1947 г. В данный момент специализируется на производстве ручного электроинструмента.
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 9 August 2020 11: 03 New
        +3
        Seriously, I described everything, painted by a certain Picasso.
        .Gernika. hi
      3. mat-vey
        mat-vey 9 August 2020 11: 06 New
        +3
        Quote: Phil77
        Did they use the * Makita * rotary hammer?, Or did they use * Bosch *? hi

        Naturally * Bosch * ... the Japanese manufacturers did not seem to test their equipment in those places at that time?
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 9 August 2020 11: 12 New
          +3
          The Makita brand has been around since 1915, so ... my favorite phrase is
          * Dear D * Artagnan, I admit everything. * drinks



          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 9 August 2020 11: 20 New
            +3
            Not any disappointments - at that time they supplied to the USSR ... though Siemens too ...
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 9 August 2020 11: 23 New
              +3
              * Phillips * I saw, but * Siemens *? Yes, and * Makitu * -no.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 9 August 2020 11: 27 New
                +3
                "Боша" торговая марка "Сименса" - после войны ,что бы меньше асасиаций о сотрудничестве(как мягко сказано) с милыми наци пришлось выдумывать новые торговые марки ...
                А "Макита" вроде до войны только электротехникой увлекалась - двигатели,там генераторы ....
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 9 August 2020 11: 30 New
                  +3
                  Yeah, accepted.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 9 August 2020 12: 00 New
          +2
          "Бош" начал выпускать общедоступную линейку этектроинструмента в 1982 году.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 9 August 2020 12: 05 New
            +1
            Тут как бЭ про техническую так сказать помощь - немцы много чего поставляли от стрелковки до танков-самолётов ... а уж немецкая техника без продукции "Сименс",да в то время ..... не бывает такого .
            "Макита" тоже ручным инструментом после войны заниматься начала ..
    2. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 11: 22 New
      +3
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      The ruins were very interesting.

      Развалины Роден и Бельчиты после Сарагосского наступления, насколько знаю, оставлены в таком виде по распоряжению Франко как "живой памятник войны".
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 9 August 2020 11: 58 New
        +3
        There, in the photo, are definitely the ruins of some kind of castle. So they were interested.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 9 August 2020 12: 52 New
          +4
          These are the ruins of the Rodin castle (Castillo de Roden), built by the Moors in the XI century and destroyed during the Civil War.
        2. Undecim
          Undecim 9 August 2020 12: 52 New
          +5
          These are the ruins of the Rodin castle (Castillo de Roden), built by the Moors in the XI century and destroyed during the Civil War.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 9 August 2020 16: 26 New
            +2
            Thank you Victor Nikolaevich!
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 09: 47 New
    0
    = ... Spaniards' speed was generally something critical. They drove their cars in such a way that our military advisers were simply breathtaking, =
    Does the author even know this? Who and what was breathtaking. laughing
    = ... and during the battles in Barcelona, ​​taxi drivers accelerated their cars and ... rammed the barricades of nationalists at top speed. =
    Так сразу и написал бы - что, первыми камикадзе в истории были испанские "шоферы такси" и их пассажиры.
    1. kalibr
      9 August 2020 16: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: Krasnoyarsk
      Does the author even know this? Who and what was breathtaking.

      There is a source where a participant in these events writes about this ...
      1. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 17: 35 New
        -3
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Does the author even know this? Who and what was breathtaking.

        There is a source where a participant in these events writes about this ...

        Looks like the same hack. Fisherman fisherman ...
        1. kalibr
          9 August 2020 17: 38 New
          +2
          Smart people come up with hypotheses, mediocre people put them into practice, stupid people use and do not thank!
        2. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 21: 27 New
          -1
          . To see the same hack. Fisherman fisherman ...

          laughing
          Bingo!
  • Dr. Frankenstucker
    Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 10: 01 New
    +3
    In general, the Republican command was pretty stupid with the use of BT - they hooked on some kind of devil landing in the attack at Fuentes de Ebro. Under Teruel - in the mountains, in half-meter snow, plus street battles in the city itself. Not surprisingly, 15 vehicles were lost. And even before the approach of the 40th PekhDiv, the defense of the city was generally entrusted to tankers. This is for cars, the element of which is agile war. With which they, to their credit, coped with using ambush tactics and counterattacks. The fact that by the end of the Teruel campaign, out of 42 BTshek barely crawled 15 - a natural result. But in a week, the repairmen restored the materiel, we must pay tribute. All cars had to change engines and thoroughly shake up the hodovka.
    By the way, in Spain, the transportation of tanks on heavy trucks was relatively widely practiced. Here is a padded BTshka on the platform of the Krupp truck.
  • Dr. Frankenstucker
    Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 10: 15 New
    +1
    and during the battles in Barcelona, ​​taxi drivers accelerated their cars and ... rammed the barricades of nationalists at top speed.


    это каких боёв-то? Восстания генерала ГОдеды в 1936-ом? И как за несколько часов 20 июля мятежники Годеды успели воздвигнуть баррикады? И, главное - за каким? А в 1938-ом баррикады строили не националисты (они, вообще-то, наступали), а республиканцы. Так чьи баррикады-то "таранили" таксисты? Что за дичь?
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 13: 02 New
      0
      Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
      Так чьи баррикады-то "таранили" таксисты? Что за дичь?

      Dear, this is not game, this is Shpakovsky. It's only the beginning. But .., many people like it here. lol
      1. kalibr
        9 August 2020 16: 15 New
        +3
        Ugh on you!
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 17: 37 New
          -1
          Quote: kalibr
          Ugh on you!

          laughing
    2. kalibr
      9 August 2020 16: 26 New
      0
      It is necessary to read more, develop, so to speak, the historical outlook. Write comments later!
      1. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 17: 01 New
        0
        Use your advice.
        1. kalibr
          9 August 2020 17: 28 New
          -1
          Alexander! Your advice to me is unnecessary. I have 40 books published in the USSR, Russia, England and Germany, 1300 articles here on VO, 300 on Pravda.ru and God knows how many more on various other sites and in the magazine of the Russian Federation, England, USA, Belgium, Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Australia and even Japan, 5 electronic editions. Here is academician Aganbegyan's advice, I would listen to ... And site anonymous ... thank you!
          1. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 9 August 2020 19: 08 New
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            fire me

            I'm firing.
            Your regalia, Shpakovsky, do not tell me anything.
      2. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 17: 51 New
        -1
        Quote: kalibr
        It is necessary to read more, develop, so to speak, the historical outlook. Write comments later!

        To read that the Spaniards loved to ride in such a way that the Russians were breathtaking? Do not bring and have mercy !!! Even a schoolchild understands that it does not depend on nationality, but on the individual characteristics of a person.
        Well, the fact that the taxi drivers (!) Crashed into the barricade at full speed is, in general, a masterpiece. The only question is - for what purpose? With the aim of committing suicide without causing any damage to the enemy? And this is not a lapse, this is a way of thinking. Yours.
  • pytar
    pytar 9 August 2020 10: 15 New
    +7
    Interesting article! Thanks to the author! good
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 9 August 2020 12: 43 New
    +5
    Something everyone attacked the author, just inconvenient ... but repeat
    When on August 10, 1937, fifty BT-5 tanks arrived at the front, they created a "regiment of heavy tanks", which included a company of armored cars and a company of anti-tank guns. BT-5. The regiment was to be commanded by Lieutenant Colonel S. Kondratyev.

    Что значит это "БТ-5" ?
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 9 August 2020 13: 01 New
      +6
      Something everyone attacked the author, just uncomfortable
      This is a vivid illustration of what the increased use of history for propaganda purposes leads to. The audience can perceive historical material only within the narrow framework of propaganda.
      The older ones are guided by the Soviet account of the Spanish Civil War, in which the Republican light elves fought the vicious Franco orcs.
      Кто помоложе убеждены, что истинная история прошлого века излагается только в России, во всех остальных странах ее усиленно переписывают и искажают, поэтому любое отклонение от "национальной" версии подвергается обструкции.
      About and a company of anti-tank guns. BT-5 - a mistake. This refers to a battery of 45 mm guns.

      The guns were Soviet, the gunners were British.
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 9 August 2020 13: 06 New
        +5
        Yeah thanks. Now I understand.
        As for the propaganda ... well, all the authors, one way or another, propagate their views. It's just that some do it well, others not. And there are those that it would be better not to do this at all :)))
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 9 August 2020 13: 16 New
          +5
          And as for propaganda ...
          If the author in the article cited the point of view of the Spaniards on the events in question, then many would have had a hysteria.
          1. kalibr
            9 August 2020 16: 24 New
            +2
            Quote: Undecim
            If the author in the article cited the point of view of the Spaniards on the events in question, then many would have had a hysteria.

            What are you, what a hysteria. It started from this material for some. And from their writings, foam would drip from the ears ...
          2. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 17: 56 New
            -1
            Quote: Undecim
            And as for propaganda ...
            If the author in the article cited the point of view of the Spaniards on the events in question, then many would have had a hysteria.

            Are you sure that all Spaniards would have one point of view on these events, which, moreover, coincides with yours?
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 9 August 2020 20: 06 New
              +2
              Are you sure that all Spaniards would have one point of view on these events, which, moreover, coincides with yours?
              And where does my point of view? We are talking about the Spaniards, participants in the events described, historians who have their own points of view on events in their own country and its history.
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 21: 01 New
                -2
                Quote: Undecim

                And where does my point of view? We are talking about the Spaniards, participants in the events described, historians who have their own points of view on events in their own country and its history.

                Actually, you wrote about the Spaniards. - = If the author in the article cited the point of view of the Spaniards on the events in question, =
                By the way, the Spaniards also have an ambiguous attitude towards Franco. So, you are not very ...
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 9 August 2020 21: 22 New
                  +3
                  If the author in the article cited the point of view of the Spaniards on the events in question
                  И что не так? О том, что испанцы Франко оценивают по разному, общеизвестно. Как и гражданскую войну и "помощь" извне. Не могу понять, что Вы мне пытаетесь доказать.
                  1. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 21: 55 New
                    0
                    Quote: Undecim
                    And what is wrong?

                    With your phrase -
                    = Если бы автор в статье привел точку зрения испанцев на рассматриваемые события, тут у многих случилась бы истерика.= Вы намекнули, что все "республиканцы" были "плохие" и все их дела - ужасные. А вот франкисты - белые и пушистые. Лично я так расценил Вашу фразу. Если ошибся, прошу пардону.
                    1. Undecim
                      Undecim 9 August 2020 21: 59 New
                      +2
                      Yeah, there it is, subjective perception, it turns out. It happens.
                      1. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 22: 01 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Undecim
                        It happens.

                        It happens, of course. But how else to interpret this phrase?
                      2. Undecim
                        Undecim 9 August 2020 22: 04 New
                        +2
                        Yes, do not evaluate it. This is how it is written and perceived. Above, I have already explained twice about the presence of the Spaniards of different points of view on the events described. Both Republicans and Nationalists.
  • Operator
    Operator 9 August 2020 12: 57 New
    +3
    Автору, преподававшему "общественные связи", вообще-то необходимо знать о существовании такого понятия как пропаганда и, тем более, военная пропаганда (к вопросу о советских газетах 1930-х годов). Бедные пензенские студенты laughing

    A characteristic feature of the Spanish Civil War was the split of society into two equal parts, while the republicans were also split into anarchists, socialists and communists. Foreign aid to the warring parties consisted of regular military units of Germany and Italy with standard weapons and motley volunteers-internationalists, mostly without military training and experience.

    The USSR's attempt to compensate for the initial discord and vacillation among the Republicans with the help of deliberately limited supplies of aircraft and tanks along with their crews, as well as by sending a small number of military advisers, was clearly a political step with the aim of splitting Western societies, demonstrating the practice of fascism in Spain.

    What the USSR succeeded in was with the help of the Americans and British inter-brigades fired in battles, which correctly oriented public opinion in their countries on the eve of WWII.

    Бывшему преподавателю "общественных связей" надо обращать больше внимания на данную сторону предвоенной политики СССР, а не зацикливаться на непрофильных для него вопросах применения легкобронированной техники в сильнопересеченной местности и городской застройке.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 9 August 2020 13: 06 New
      0
      Quote: Operator
      Бывшему преподавателю "общественных связей" надо обращать больше внимания на данную сторону предвоенной политики СССР, а не зацикливаться на непрофильных для него вопросах применения легкобронированной техники в сильнопересеченной местности и городской застройке.

      Ну так "........... земле, но на русский авось: авось прорвемся!"
    2. kalibr
      9 August 2020 16: 18 New
      0
      Quote: Operator
      Бывшему преподавателю "общественных связей" надо обращать больше внимания на данную сторону предвоенной политики СССР,

      What for? Students from all over the country study with 5 of my textbooks. And here you need to make it interesting ...
      1. Operator
        Operator 9 August 2020 16: 40 New
        +1
        Poor poor students, it's good at least my son graduated from a Russian university with an engineering degree - I assumed that former historians of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union rule the ball in humanitarian studies laughing
        1. kalibr
          9 August 2020 17: 04 New
          +1
          Quote: Operator
          I assumed that the former historians of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union rule the ball in the humanitarian field

          Everything is correct. But here their opinion is important, not yours ... And as you understand, in the whole country in the era of the Internet, hardly anyone would write like that, he would not be sure of the opposite.
      2. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 18: 06 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        Students from all over the country study with 5 of my textbooks.

        Fresh tradition, but hard to believe.
        Well, if Aganbegyan is your everything, then they are poor students.
        Are you publishing with Soros money?
        1. kalibr
          9 August 2020 18: 38 New
          0
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          Fresh tradition, hard to believe

          В Интернет загляните... Там есть и автор, и книги, и издательства их опубликовавшие. А Сорос... я бы и рад, тем более, что моя книга "Рыцари Востока" получала в 1998 году грант его фонда, но деятельность фонда в РФ давно уже закрыта. И кроме того... в СССР Сороса не было, а книги мои выходили и тогда причем огромными тиражами.
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 18: 59 New
            0
            Quote: kalibr
            then with huge circulations.

            2 or 2,5 thousand copies? Don't be offended. In your articles you suck a lot of things out of your finger, why should I believe in huge circulations?
            1. kalibr
              9 August 2020 21: 08 New
              +1
              Ну, скажем, 87000 и 100000 Вас устроит? Первая - книга 1987 года ИЗ ВСЕГО.ЧТО ПОД РУКАМИ. Вторая - "Для тех, кто любит мастерить". I don't need to believe! IN THE CENTURY OF THE INTERNET, YOU OPEN THE TITLE OF THE BOOK - and everything opens up to you.
    3. kalibr
      9 August 2020 16: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      then the USSR succeeded - with the help of the inter-brigades fired in the battles of the Americans and the British, who correctly orientated public opinion in their countries on the eve of WWII.

      They left as potential communists and returned as real anti-communists. Managed!
      1. Operator
        Operator 9 August 2020 16: 42 New
        0
        Oh, yes - and who then knocked from Cambridge during the whole WWII and who then was McCarthy chasing after the war? laughing
        1. kalibr
          9 August 2020 17: 02 New
          0
          Among the mass of smart people there is always a couple of other idiots ... Read Orwell's note about his stay in Catalonia ...
          1. Operator
            Operator 9 August 2020 17: 34 New
            -2
            В значительной мере благодаря кембриджским "придуркам" ваши сородичи выжили во ВМВ, а участие в гонениях на коммунистически настроенных чиновников правительства США и творческих работников Голливуда в конце 1940-х годов приняло большое количество американцев, а не только пара придурков во главе с Маккарти.

            The Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov described a situation similar to that of Republican Spain in a purely concrete way - we and Syria (Spain) are just situational allies, since in these countries there are / had a hell of a lot of other political forces (for example, Iranians and Kurds in Syria or anarchists and socialists in Spain).

            Оруэлл много чего описал - например, дурдом современных США и Британии в произведениях "1984" и "Скотный двор".
            1. kalibr
              9 August 2020 18: 33 New
              +1
              Печально, что Вы знаете только эти его произведения. "Памяти Каталонии" прочитайте...
              1. Operator
                Operator 9 August 2020 19: 22 New
                0
                "Памяти Каталонии" я тоже читал - все в рамках правил гражданской войны.
                1. kalibr
                  9 August 2020 21: 03 New
                  0
                  Then what are we talking about? There he writes all the same ...
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 9 August 2020 22: 45 New
                    0
                    О "придурках" в составе интернационалистов в Испании.
          2. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 18: 10 New
            -1
            Quote: kalibr
            Among the mass of smart people, there are always a couple of other idiots ...

            Of course you don't count yourself among them? And they, by the way, were engaged in the atomic project, these same ones, in your opinion,.
            1. kalibr
              9 August 2020 18: 31 New
              +1
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              And they, by the way, were engaged in the atomic project

              And how did you end? Many in a very sad way ... And then, we were not talking about physics. And about the opinion of those who returned from Spain. For many, it changed to negative in relation to communist ideas.
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 18: 50 New
                -1
                Quote: kalibr
                And how did you end? Many in a very sad way ..

                А сколько таких п-в (Вам можно писать это слово, мне - нет. Демократия и свобода слова и равенство возможностей. Все как Вы хотели) уйдя добровольцами на фронт, закончили "печальным образом".
                1. kalibr
                  9 August 2020 21: 05 New
                  +2
                  Let me remind you again: we are no longer talking about volunteers, but about physicists. Do not go crazy, this can be very badly interpreted ...
                  1. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 21: 25 New
                    0
                    Quote: kalibr
                    it is no longer about volunteers, but about physicists.

                    Are they not human? And they didn't make the decision themselves? That those that others deliberately made their choice and knew what they were doing.
    4. Astra wild
      Astra wild 9 August 2020 18: 36 New
      +3
      Коллега Оператор,"с помощью сознательно ограниченных поставок"другими словами: нехороший Сталин подыгрывал фашистам?
      It was necessary to send ALL planes to Spain.
      You probably remember that fascist Spain and Italy supported Franco, which means they in every possible way interfered with supplies from the Soviet Union.
      I deliberately did not sit in the archive, I really need it, but it is unlikely that you also worked in the archive
      1. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 10 August 2020 07: 22 New
        0
        ... It was necessary to send ALL planes to Spain.
        For how much was paid, so much had to be sent. Or are you not aware that Comrade Stalin's technique sold Republic?
    5. Astra wild
      Astra wild 9 August 2020 18: 53 New
      +2
      "в большинстве без военного обучения и опыта",что не мешало им колотить регулярные части Италии и Германии.
      Меня резануло пренебрежительное"разношёрстны", а ничего,что они БОРОЛИСЬ с ФАШИЗМОМ? Ударной силой республиканцев били интернациональные бригады.
      2/3 of the Spanish army and officer corps were with Franco + Hitler and Mussolini. And despite this, the Republicans stubbornly resisted
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 9 August 2020 19: 28 New
        +4
        but nothing that they FIGHT FASCISM?
        The Spanish Civil War has nothing to do with the fight against fascism, therefore your fiery slogans are completely inappropriate.
        1. Astra wild
          Astra wild 9 August 2020 20: 25 New
          +3
          Виктор Николаевич,я очень уважаю Вашу эрудицию. Вы один из самых,самых эрудированных , но сейчас я с Вами и не согласна: формально события в Испании не связаны с фашизмом, но на стороне Франко выступили вполне фашистские Германия ('я выше влепила Испания,но надеюсь на понимание коллег)и Испания. Выроятно, Вы знаете такое выражение:"скажи кто твой друг и я скажу кто ты" так что мы на равных,а теперь можете минусовать. Я почему-то минусы не люблю, но от Вас потерплю:ценю Вашу эрудицию.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 9 August 2020 20: 49 New
            +4
            now you can minus
            Зачем мне Вас "минусовать"? Это как то поможет в дискуссии?
            Гражданская война в Испании - это в первую очередь - гражданская война. А иностранные "помощники", пользуясь моментом, решали свои шкурные внешнеполитические задачи. При этом некоторые успели поменять свою позицию на противоположную, а то и оказать "помощь" обеим сторонам конфликта. СССР в этом плане не исключение.
            By the way, the mutiny was not raised by Franco, who joined the rebels literally at the last moment.
            And in order to understand the reasons for the outbreak of the civil war and who fought with whom and for what, one has to sit down to books and study the history of Spain since the colonization of South America.
            1. Astra wild
              Astra wild 10 August 2020 07: 31 New
              0
              Viktor Nikolaevich, I agree: - not very conducive to discussion, but rather awakens aggression.
              Лучше Вы коротко скажите ,а мне надо работать. Кормить: себя"подружку" и прчх кого содержим
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 10 August 2020 09: 39 New
                0
                Quote: Astra wild
                Кормить: себя"подружку"

                So, so, so! Dear Vera, now that's interesting! What's for lunch? request
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 10 August 2020 10: 06 New
                0
                Quote: Astra wild
                I agree: - not very conducive to discussion, but rather awakens aggression.

                Dear Vera, you are right, it’s a pity there is no possibility, otherwise * plus *, * plus *, * plus *! It is for this thought! My respect and have a good day !!!!!
          2. kalibr
            9 August 2020 21: 01 New
            +2
            Quote: Astra wild
            Вы знаете такое выражение:"скажи кто твой друг и я скажу кто ты"

            Do you remember the Treaty of Friendship and the Border Between the USSR and Nazi Germany?
    6. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 21: 04 New
      -4
      Quote: Operator
      Автору, преподававшему "общественные связи", вообще-то необходимо знать о существовании такого понятия как пропаганда и, тем более, военная

      Why would he need it? The main thing for him is to squeeze out an article in which, on non-Russian soil, non-Russian commanders, when making decisions, hope for the Russian maybe.
  • bk0010
    bk0010 9 August 2020 14: 05 New
    +2
    And according to the newspapers, it turned out that the Republicans of the Franco nationalists all the time win, they surrender in large numbers, but then for some reason they themselves suffer one defeat after another and retreat. This aroused distrust of the press, people understood that something was not being told to them, but they really could not find out anything.
    Have you really missed the opportunity to write that because of the Trotskyists, anarchists and Poles, the Republicans are losing?
    "Regiment of heavy tanks"
    Полк тяжелых танков из БТ-5 и Т-26... Это посильнее "Фауста" Гете. Круче был бы только полк сухопутных линкоров.
    1. kalibr
      9 August 2020 17: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: bk0010
      Have you really missed the opportunity to write that because of the Trotskyists, anarchists and Poles, the Republicans are losing?

      Об этом написал Кольцов в книге "Испанский дневник".
  • Catfish
    Catfish 9 August 2020 14: 29 New
    +3
    Vyacheslav, hello! hi
    The POUM fighters had a particularly hard time: they were beaten by both nationalists and ... their own!

    And what is this POUM, what did they eat it with, who was in it and why did they beat?
    1. kalibr
      9 August 2020 16: 19 New
      +2
      There will be a separate article about POUM. It is impossible to stuff both POUM tanks and propaganda into one material.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 9 August 2020 16: 21 New
        +5
        There is no way anywhere without propaganda, it is easier to do without vodka. laughing drinks
        1. kalibr
          9 August 2020 17: 23 New
          +3
          "Комитет Крила: сверхмощное оружие информационного воздействия
          May 12, 2020! - look, refresh your memory. There was material from this ...
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 10 August 2020 12: 20 New
        0
        Ha, haa !!! I hastened with the decoding POUM!
    2. Astra wild
      Astra wild 9 August 2020 20: 13 New
      +3
      Constantine, I don't know how to decipher POUM, but these are the Spanish Trotskyists.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 9 August 2020 21: 39 New
        +2
        Thank you, Vera. love I'm in these intricacies in general for zeros.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 10 August 2020 09: 19 New
          +2
          Quote: Sea Cat
          I'm in these intricacies in general for zeros.

          The Labor Party of Marxist Unity is still alive! hi
      2. kalibr
        10 August 2020 11: 09 New
        +2
        Aster! They DO NOT HAVE any relationship to the Trotskyists. This is a label attached to them by the Stalinists. But, I will write in detail and soon what was there and how ...
  • Catfish
    Catfish 9 August 2020 14: 36 New
    +2
    Well, in the article it was possible to insert a pile of a photo of the unfortunate TI wedge for some misunderstanding named a tank.

    Pz.Kpfw.IA at the El Goloso Museum
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 16: 05 New
      +2
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Well, in the article it was possible to insert a pile of a photo of the unfortunate TI wedge for some misunderstanding named a tank.

      Pz.Kpfw.IA at the El Goloso Museum

      The tower had - had, it means, according to British and German qualifications - a "tank"!
      We don't call the English MK-I, III and IV (females) tankettes! By the way, they were also machine-gun. And the first Matilda, having anti-cannon armor, was armed with one infantry caliber machine gun!
      Our small amphibious PT-37A and PT-38, according to the statements, passed like tanks, and the reckless T-27 - a tankette!
      Good day Konstantin !!!
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 9 August 2020 16: 19 New
        +3
        British Marks in size did not pull on the wedge, no matter what barrels you put on them.
        The land ships of His Majesty. smile
  • BAI
    BAI 9 August 2020 16: 22 New
    +2
    In words, we are constantly talking about the BT-5, and in the photo - only the T-26. Maybe the T-26 should have been discussed?
    1. kalibr
      9 August 2020 17: 06 New
      +2
      There will also be BT-5s. This is only the first part ...
  • kalibr
    9 August 2020 16: 41 New
    +1
    Quote: My address
    I think the Soviet period is the best for the country.

    The best doesn't fall apart!
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 17: 21 New
      +6
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: My address
      I think the Soviet period is the best for the country.

      The best doesn't fall apart!

      "There is nothing eternal under the moon!"
      A long time ago I read the calculations of astrophysicists that in a couple of billions of years the Moon of the "Khryapnitsa" will come to the Earth and the "kirdyk" will come to everyone. After a few paragraphs, the author happily announced that we would not live to see these days since the Sun would go out, having previously exploded! After savoring the next apocalypse, he encouragingly informed that his opponent thinks it is possible that we will not live to see this event and before our sun will face some kind of misfortune "nebula and something else - I don't remember" and then they will definitely show Kuzkin's mother!
      The conclusion was already insipid, we can not bury ourselves without itching, since there is already a nuclear button and more than one!
      Alas Vyacheslav Olegovich, the best toys also break !!!
      1. kalibr
        9 August 2020 17: 39 New
        +1
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        the best toys break too !!!

        And for some reason the worst are not ...
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 18: 49 New
          +3
          Quote: kalibr
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          the best toys break too !!!

          And for some reason the worst are not ...

          Loved ones, they play more often!
          1. kalibr
            9 August 2020 20: 58 New
            +1
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Loved ones, they play more often!

            And who is this on our planet now playing in the USSR? Cuba and North Korea, huh?
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 10 August 2020 12: 52 New
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              Cuba and North Korea, huh?

              Vyacheslav Olegovich, with all due respect, but .... There is a possibility that they just want to live. To live in their own way, eh?
              Like, or vice versa ????? They have their own way.
              1. kalibr
                11 August 2020 16: 19 New
                -1
                Quote: Phil77
                Chances are they just want to live their own way, huh?

                And then there are Bushmen, Hottentots, and Papuans ... Let them live, by the way, speaking ... And, by the way, no one touches either Cuba or Korea ...
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 11 August 2020 16: 32 New
                  0
                  Quote: kalibr

                  And then there are Bushmen, Hottentots, and Papuans ... Let them live, by the way, speaking ... And by the way,

                  Well, these guys are out of business, eh?
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 11 August 2020 15: 33 New
              0
              Yes, and do we have the right to indicate how to whom to live, huh? After 91, no! After 93, you will agree, it will be more abruptly. No? We would decide ourselves who we are?
              1. kalibr
                11 August 2020 16: 17 New
                -1
                Quote: Phil77
                Yes, and do we have the right to indicate how to whom to live, huh? After 91, no! After 93, you will agree, it will be more abruptly. No? We would decide ourselves who we are?

                Как хорошо Вы все себе представляете! Браво! Но... есть одно НО. На 100% НИКТО, и мы в том числе никому не имеем права указывать. Да, согласен. НО... на сколько-то % имеем полное! Имеем там, где мы успешны. А успех определяется качеством жизни, не так ли? И опять же % того, чем люди за это качество платят. Немцы до 1944 года не имели проблем с продовольствием и имели отличные дороги. Но... какой ценой? Поэтому указывать не имели права, не так ли? Остается определить, где тот % и в чем он, где мы имеем полное право указывать, не так ли? И опять не указывать, а предлагать - "вот это у нас хорошо, последуйте нашему примеру". Думаю, что подумав, Вы с этой моей филиппикой согласитесь.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 11 August 2020 16: 30 New
                  +1
                  * And it was like this! * Vyacheslav Olegovich! The question is voprosischev! So who are we ?????
                  1. kalibr
                    11 August 2020 16: 49 New
                    -2
                    Who are we? Maya Indians also asked and answered it like this: “You, who later will show your face here! If your mind understands, you ask: who are we? Who are we? Ask the dawn, ask the forest, ask the wave, ask the storm, ask the love. Ask the land, the land of suffering and the land of love. Who are we? We are the earth! "
                  2. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 11 August 2020 20: 20 New
                    0
                    “We are Scythians! Yes, Asians are we
                    With slanted and greedy eyes! " (c).
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 9 August 2020 18: 00 New
        +4
        "This too shall pass". And every year you understand this more and more sharply. And the fairy tales of the peoples of the world have firmly absorbed this truth.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 August 2020 18: 51 New
          +6
          Quote: Korsar4
          "This too shall pass". And every year you understand this more and more sharply. And the fairy tales of the peoples of the world have firmly absorbed this truth.

          Constantine, I would like to argue with my heart, but you realize to your minds - everything will be like this!
          hi
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 9 August 2020 21: 06 New
            +4
            What is there to object? What is unshakable to rely on?

            With your permission, not Constantine.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 August 2020 04: 03 New
              +3
              Damn once again!
              I have commented, I'm sorry, I'll fix it!
              Sincerely, Vlad! repeat
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 10 August 2020 09: 04 New
              +1
              Quote: Korsar4
              With your permission, not Constantine

              Namesake, hello! Sergei, we! And we have our own pride! Haha, ha! laughing
      3. Hantengri
        Hantengri 9 August 2020 23: 04 New
        +4
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        A long time ago I read the calculations of astrophysicists that in a couple of billions of years the Moon of the "Khryapnitsa" will come to the Earth and the "kirdyk" will come to everyone. After a few paragraphs, the author happily announced that we would not live to see these days since the Sun would go out, having previously exploded!

        Автор, видать, был большой человеколюб и гуманист! И чтобы не создавать лишней паники среди населения, скромно умолчал про то, что, прежде чем, издав негромкий "пшик", наше Солнышко превратится из желтого карлика в белый карлик, оно, через каких-то 6,5-7 млрд. лет, для начала, превратится в красный гигант, медленно расширившись до размеров земной орбиты и вдумчиво поджарив нас, как курочку гриль...
        Summary: It's definitely time to get rid of this planet! laughing
    2. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 18: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: My address
      I think the Soviet period is the best for the country.

      The best doesn't fall apart!

      Your spiritual brothers seized power and destroyed the country. DOESN'T fall apart by itself. Herostrata always help.
      1. kalibr
        9 August 2020 18: 28 New
        +3
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Your spiritual brothers seized power and destroyed the country. DOESN'T fall apart by itself. Herostrata always help.

        How nice it is to come back from the dacha to realize that the number of stupid people in the country has not diminished.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 18: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: kalibr

          How nice it is to come back from the dacha to realize that the number of stupid people in the country has not diminished.

          But I am NOT pleased that there are many stupid people in the country. Catching the difference, or not for your mind?
          1. kalibr
            9 August 2020 20: 55 New
            +2
            I can see the difference, and it’s unpleasant for me too, but I can’t do anything, I’m not a bull inseminator. And if so, you must use what you have for your own benefit.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 21: 21 New
              +1
              Quote: kalibr
              I catch the difference, and I don't like it too,

              At 18.28 you wrote -
              Quote: kalibr

              How nice it is to come back from the dacha to realize that the number of stupid people in the country has not diminished.

              And at 20.55 you write -
              Quote: kalibr
              and it's unpleasant for me too,

              The bird can be seen by the whip, and the wind direction by the weather vane. good
              1. kalibr
                10 August 2020 07: 01 New
                -1
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                At 18.28 you wrote -
                Quote: kalibr

                How nice it is to come back from the dacha to realize that the number of stupid people in the country has not diminished.

                And at 20.55 you write -
                Quote: kalibr
                and it's unpleasant for me too,

                The bird can be seen by the whip, and the wind direction by the weather vane.

                The first is personally about you, that you are alive and well and ready to make a lot of comments for the benefit of VO, that is, to use ...
                And the second - in the general philosophical sense, you have no relation to you personally! Available?
          2. Astra wild
            Astra wild 9 August 2020 21: 31 New
            +2
            Хорошо сказано:" мне не приятно,что в стране много глупых"
      2. kalibr
        9 August 2020 18: 44 New
        +2
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        DOESN'T fall apart by itself.

        And the collective farmers and workers of the communist labor brigades, as always, blinked their eyes together? But I asked about the dugout, the partisan detachment and taxes. Are you surely not paying them, but financing the fighters for the USSR?
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 19: 09 New
          -2
          Quote: kalibr

          And the collective farmers and workers of the communist labor brigades, as always, blinked their eyes together?

          Somewhere like that. Because shpakovskys of all stripes and ranks shit in their brains and many were led. But not me.
          Quote: kalibr
          Are you surely not paying them, but financing the fighters for the USSR?

          Of course I don't pay taxes. I get paid. For 43 years of work at one enterprise.
          Quote: kalibr
          But I asked about the dugout, partisan detachment

          Who was asked? And how often do you have it? Although .. I'm not surprised.
          1. kalibr
            9 August 2020 19: 19 New
            +2
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Because shpakovskys of all stripes and ranks shit in their brains and many were led.

            Ну можно ли быть таким... недалеким? Я уже писал, что в советское время преподавателю истории КПСС не удалось бы нагадить кому-то на мозг при всем желании. Нам платили - и хорошо, за то, что мы проводили политику партии в массы. То есть говорили все то, что Вам так нравится, что все у нас лучшее, что империализм США враг народов, что "там" все загнивает и "нехорошие девушки" на каждом углу. Я даже страницы из записной книжки лектора РК КПСС здесь как-то публиковал... И там было... что нужно было говорить. И все это было самого праведного свойства. Но вот что-то не срослось у политики партии и желаний и чаяний народа.
            And what kind of enterprise you have, excuse my curiosity, it was ... I wonder where you can work so much and not go crazy?
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 19: 33 New
              -2
              Quote: kalibr
              То есть говорили все то, что Вам так нравится, что все у нас лучшее, что империализм США враг народов, что "там" все загнивает и "нехорошие девушки" на каждом углу.

              У Вас примитивный взгляд на таких как я. И опять я не удивлен. А как еще могут думать такие как Вы? Именно из-за такого взгляда на нас, вы и пишете такие посредственные статьи. Не знаю, может Вы могли бы и лучше писать, но пишете по принципу - этим и так сойдет. Вот "эти", при очередной Вашей халтуре, и прыгают от восторга.
              1. kalibr
                9 August 2020 20: 50 New
                +1
                Так ведь "этих" 80% населения и они тоже люди. Имеют право выбирать и быть избранными. И если им нравится, то... задача автора удоволетворять запросам столь значительной части общества. Так что для них, да, сойдет, и так, но они не самые плохие люди. И Вы ничем не доказали, что лучше, чем они! Более того, как правило такие как Вы очень легко управляемы, а больше-то ничего и не нужно. Но Вы проигнорировали мой вопрос про предприятие...
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 21: 16 New
                  -1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Так ведь "этих" 80% населения

                  Who counted? You?
                  Quote: kalibr
                  They have the right to choose and be elected.

                  And this has something to do with it?
                  Quote: kalibr
                  And if they like it

                  What do you like? Fables from Shpakovsky?
                  Quote: kalibr
                  but they are not the worst people.

                  And I'm not saying otherwise.
                  Quote: kalibr
                  And you have not proved in any way that it is better than them!

                  Why do I need it?
                  Quote: kalibr
                  So for them, yes, it will do, and so,

                  So you showed your essence. By doing hack for them, you showed how much you disrespect and even despise them.
                  1. kalibr
                    10 August 2020 07: 05 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    So you showed your essence. By doing hack for them, you showed how much you disrespect and even despise them.

                    Я презираю только глупых, а тех, кто чего-то не знает, но хочет узнать и благодаря мне узнает - тех я как раз уважаю.Сказано:" Блаженны алчущие и жаждущие правды, ибо они насытятся".
                    1. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 10 August 2020 10: 23 New
                      0
                      Quote: kalibr
                      - I just respect those

                      Погодите, погодите. Но Вы же сами сознались в том, что пишете посредственные статьи потому, что "для них и так сойдет". Из чего следует, что Вы их не уважаете. А сейчас Вы утверждаете, что уважаете их.
                      So where are you the real, two-faced Janus? Or maybe three-faced?
                      1. kalibr
                        10 August 2020 10: 47 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Погодите, погодите. Но Вы же сами сознались в том, что пишете посредственные статьи потому, что "для них и так сойдет". Из чего следует, что Вы их не уважаете. А сейчас Вы утверждаете, что уважаете их.

                        It is useless to explain anything to the mind affected by radiation more difficult than a toothpick device ...
                      2. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 10 August 2020 14: 01 New
                        -1
                        Quote: kalibr

                        It is useless to explain anything to the mind affected by radiation more difficult than a toothpick device ...

                        И это все, что мог родить Ваш "многогранный" ум?
                      3. kalibr
                        10 August 2020 16: 35 New
                        0
                        And what more? You can read on the Internet how harmful radiation affects, first of all, intelligence. Have you already learned how to find the circulations of books you are interested in? Look on this topic ... you will find.
                  2. kalibr
                    10 August 2020 10: 59 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    Or maybe three-faced?

                    Four! Brahma!
                  3. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 10 August 2020 14: 06 New
                    0
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Four! Brahma!

                    Oh how !!! The first time I meet a man who compared himself to a chicken !!! good good
                  4. kalibr
                    10 August 2020 16: 30 New
                    0
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    First time I meet a man who compared himself to a chicken !!

                    And this is the first time I meet a person who does not know who Brahma is. And also boast of soviet education ...
                  5. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 10 August 2020 17: 20 New
                    -1
                    Quote: kalibr

                    And this is the first time I meet a person who does not know who Brahma is. And also boast of soviet education ...

                    Why don't I know? I know. But I chose the one that suits you best.
        2. kalibr
          10 August 2020 10: 58 New
          +1
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          By doing hack for them, you showed how much you disrespect and even despise them.

          And who said it was hack? Your opinion, of course, does not count. You are not a historian, not a candidate of historical sciences, much less a doctor. You have no articles, no books ... who will listen to you?
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 10 August 2020 14: 07 New
            0
            Quote: kalibr

            And who said it was hack? Your opinion, of course, does not count. You are not a historian, not a candidate of historical sciences, much less a doctor.

            I don't have to be a cook to say that borsch is not tasty. tongue
            1. kalibr
              10 August 2020 16: 28 New
              -2
              For borscht, there are pimples in the tongue, which are different for everyone. Because not everyone is accepted as tasters. The sensitivity is different. And intelligence is responsible for evaluating materials on a historical topic, which not everyone has. Someone's father drank, rolled the child drunk, someone dropped the grandmother, someone lived not far from the first-born chemical plant and ran in the rain after the explosion of the first Soviet hydrogen bomb, lived on the Teshe River ... Or, as in In your case, there was enough radionucleides elsewhere.
            2. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 10 August 2020 17: 19 New
              +2
              [quote = kalibr Someone's father drank, rolled the child drunk, someone dropped someone's grandmother, someone lived near the first-born chemical plant and ran in the rain after the explosion of the first Soviet hydrogen bomb, on [/ quote]
              What influenced you - dad, grandmother or chemical plant? Or all at once?
            3. kalibr
              11 August 2020 16: 22 New
              -2
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              Or all at once?

              Ignorance of soviet ancestors!
  • kalibr
    9 August 2020 19: 21 New
    0
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    Of course I don't pay taxes.

    Great! Lucky you ... But in our country, it seems that everyone pays income, including pensioners?
    1. Operator
      Operator 9 August 2020 19: 30 New
      -3
      Quote: kalibr
      in our country, everyone seems to pay income, including pensioners

      In which country do you receive your pension - in Israel? laughing
      1. kalibr
        9 August 2020 20: 47 New
        +1
        Quote: Operator
        In which country do you receive your pension - in Israel?

        Why ask if you know the answer perfectly well?
        1. Operator
          Operator 9 August 2020 22: 43 New
          0
          This is sarcasm about your application for income tax on pensions in the Russian Federation.
    2. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 21: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Krasnoyarsk
      Of course I don't pay taxes.

      Great! Lucky you ... But in our country, it seems that everyone pays income, including pensioners?

      In the FIU, I requested a certificate of my pension.
      1. retirement pension.
      2. надбавка за "особые заслуги"
      3. allowance for participation in liquidation of the consequences of the Chernobyl accident.
      Nothing is said about taxes.
  • kalibr
    9 August 2020 20: 57 New
    0
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    DOESN'T fall apart by itself.
    And the collective farmers and workers of the communist labor brigades, as always, blinked their eyes together? But I asked about the dugout, the partisan detachment and taxes. Are you surely not paying them, but financing the fighters for the USSR?

    Who is more often?
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 21: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: kalibr
      But I asked about the dugout, partisan detachment

      So who was asked? And for what reason?
      1. kalibr
        10 August 2020 07: 08 New
        0
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        DOESN'T fall apart by itself.
        And the collective farmers and workers of the communist labor brigades, as always, blinked their eyes together? But I asked about the dugout, the partisan detachment and taxes. Are you surely not paying them, but financing the fighters for the USSR?

        Who is more often?

        You, who else!

        Но теперь многое становится понятным."надбавка за участие в ликвидации последствий аварии на ЧАЕС". А я все думал с чего это Вы такой... умственно упертый... А это последствия радиационного облучения. Печально, и главное, уже ничего не сделаешь.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 10 August 2020 10: 17 New
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          You are so ... mentally stubborn ...

          Well, of course, I'm not a weather vane like you.
          Quote: kalibr
          And these are the consequences of radiation exposure.

          No, this is a consequence of Soviet education. The ability to think figuratively, which you are completely deprived of.
          1. kalibr
            10 August 2020 10: 49 New
            0
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            ... a consequence of Soviet education

            + Chernobyl radiation = the consequences are dire. However, what am I talking about? I was wrong, sorry - excellent consequences, I would say. See how much more your and my comments appeared on the site, as well as clicks, which certainly increased its investment attractiveness. Just like your Siberian felt boots.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 10 August 2020 12: 55 New
    -1
    Quote: kalibr

    The best doesn't fall apart!

    The Roman Empire?
    1. kalibr
      10 August 2020 16: 32 New
      -1
      She was the best for her time. Then shortcomings accumulated. Not smart enough to understand and correct them. Then the natural end. So it was and so it will be. A systemic crisis is called.
  • kalibr
    9 August 2020 17: 09 New
    +2
    Quote: Operator
    in fact, you need to know about the existence of such a thing as propaganda and, moreover, military propaganda

    Actually, there was more than one article of mine about propaganda, including military propaganda. But memory is forgotten ...
  • kalibr
    9 August 2020 17: 32 New
    +3
    Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
    Much more interesting, IMHO, the Teruel epic is yes.

    Write about it! There will be your debut at VO and everyone will thank you very much!
  • Operator
    Operator 9 August 2020 17: 35 New
    -2
    Quote: izbraz20
    the attempt of the first breakthrough of the blockade of Leningrad was repelled by the Spaniards

    On the second line.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 9 August 2020 19: 04 New
    +4
    Women always remain women: look at the protective face of the thirds on the left. She seems to say: look how pretty I am.
    I admire their courage: they could stay at home, but they fought with weapons in their hands against the Nazis. They had no doubt that if they fell into the hands of the Nazis, they would be very bad, but still FIGHT
    1. kalibr
      9 August 2020 19: 13 New
      +2
      Вспомните роман Хемингуэя "По ком звонит колокол". Вот то и с ними было бы, что там...
      1. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 19: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        Вспомните роман Хемингуэя "По ком звонит колокол". Вот то и с ними было бы, что там...

        А что там? Там женщины в окопах не показаны. И умирает героиня не от того, "что там" а во время родов. Так по ком звонит колокол?
        1. kalibr
          9 August 2020 20: 46 New
          +1
          You did not understand her comment and my answer to it ...
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 9 August 2020 21: 08 New
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            You did not understand her comment and my answer to it ...

            Or maybe you unsuccessfully demonstrated your knowledge of Hemingway's work?
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 10 August 2020 09: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Astra wild
      I admire their courage: they could stay at home, but they fought with weapons in their hands against the Nazis.

      Вера!Уважаемая Вера!Вы правы,тысяча чертей!Как говаривал д'Артаньян в исполнении Боярского!Плюсую-Вам,лично!!!! love
  • Phil77
    Phil77 10 August 2020 04: 20 New
    0
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    Yes, a cat is sitting on the pipe near the antenna !!!
    Reply

    Vlad! Here with great pleasure I add your comments! With huge! hi
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 August 2020 21: 41 New
    0
    talking about BT-5, and photos everywhere are T-26 request