Military Review

"Su-57 is not needed": India said that their first 5th generation AMCA fighter will fly by 2024

125
"Su-57 is not needed": India said that their first 5th generation AMCA fighter will fly by 2024

The Indian press reports on the intensification of work in the framework of the AMCA fifth generation fighter program. Recall that earlier India decided to withdraw from the FGFA joint program with Russia, which provided for the creation of a new generation aircraft. New Delhi put forward a whole list of claims, including "lack of implemented stealth technology, previous generation engines." With this exit, India threw itself away from obtaining the latest fighters for several years. It was decided to create our own version. To this end, the implementation of the AMCA program began.


Indian columnist Neelam Matthews writes that the country's Air Force is now "feverish" working with HAL to obtain a 5th generation multirole fighter.

From the author's material:

The modular design of the fifth generation twin-engine single-seat aircraft is considered complete.

Marshal's statement is given aviation India Rakesh Bhadauria:

This is what we put our strength into. We focused on our own design, using our own technologies.

But it turns out that not all technologies will be Indian.

At the first stage, it is planned to form six AMCA squadrons, with the first flight scheduled for 2024. The first aircraft of the new generation is planned to be put into service with the Indian Air Force by 2029, and by 2036 it is planned to release an upgraded version of the AMCA Mk2.

According to the President of the Society of Consultants for the Aerospace and Defense Industry of India R. Sopori, a promising Indian fighter of a new generation "must also have an export potential."

In India:

Neither the Su-57 nor the F-35 is needed. You need to create your own fighter.

And again the question about "your" ...

According to some reports, India intends to equip its AMCA fighters with British-made engines. But even here, India is not satisfied with much. Great Britain offers engines that do not exceed 11 tons of thrust. India wants more.

Airbus CEO Anil Gupta believes that Britain could transfer technologies for creating aircraft engines, and on their basis India could create its own version.

In India, they say that a promising aircraft will carry weapons in the internal compartments, it will implement radar stealth technology.

At the same time, Neelam Matthews notes that in order to accommodate BrahMos missiles in the internal compartments of the aircraft, this aircraft will have to be increased in size. The author, referring to the statements of the military, writes that it will probably be necessary to reduce the size of air-launched cruise missiles.

Indian experts, including one of the Indian Air Force engineers, believe that forecasts for the delivery of the first fifth generation aircraft to the Indian Air Force by 2029 look too optimistic. By the way, earlier in India itself it was reported that the first AMCA fighter would take off no earlier than 2030.
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  1. Nemo
    Nemo 24 July 2020 06: 44 New
    39
    They cannot create a normal 4-generation aircraft, but they will immediately burst into 5
    1. Vladimir16
      Vladimir16 24 July 2020 07: 08 New
      27
      The Indian marshal said that design is the main thing for them. good
      They will make it beautiful, they will post it on Instagram. good
      They will take pictures with him. good

      And the name is delicious - SAMSA good
      wassat
      1. Mitroha
        Mitroha 24 July 2020 08: 01 New
        15
        As I understand it, the bargaining has begun)
        1. umah
          umah 24 July 2020 08: 31 New
          24
          There is a possibility that this AMSA will share the fate of Arjun: it seems there is, but they are buying the T-90.
          1. NIKN
            NIKN 24 July 2020 11: 17 New
            +8
            We focused on our own design
            And on the introduction of opportunities to dance Indian dances and sing before the attack of the enemy. wink
          2. orionvitt
            orionvitt 24 July 2020 13: 39 New
            13
            Quote: umah
            There is a possibility that this AMSA will share the fate of Arjun: it seems there is, but they are buying T-90

            The Indians have a lot of things. I have my own tank, but it doesn’t drive like that, I have my own plane, but it doesn’t fly much, I have my own assault rifle, but it doesn’t shoot very well, and so in everything.
          3. Alf
            Alf 24 July 2020 18: 55 New
            +8
            Quote: umah
            There is a possibility that this AMSA will share the fate of Arjun: it seems there is, but they are buying the T-90.

          4. vVvAD
            vVvAD 24 July 2020 21: 32 New
            +4
            And so it is: the bargaining has begun: the Indians will demand to sell technology and blackmail the creation of their own aircraft. Nobody will transfer critical technologies, therefore history is very likely to repeat itself: by the time they have their own plane, comparable to the F-35, but raw. ours will fly with might and main, may have a new modification (s) and, very likely, cost less: look at the size of his cab - this is a heavy fighter.
            It seems to me that the Indians are fooling around as usual (either the national game is such, or a cunning plan of knocking out favorable conditions, which is more in line with their traditions), putting forward conflicting demands: either they need a light fighter, then it turns out - a heavy one; then without a navigator in any way, then suddenly - you can!
      2. demchuk.ig
        demchuk.ig 24 July 2020 09: 14 New
        +3
        The Indian marshal said that design is the main thing for them. good
        They will make it beautiful, they will post it on Instagram. : goo
        wassat[/ Quote]
        It will be all in chikarashkas, like theirs barbukhaikas. Turkeys cannot make a single purchase normally, always with songs and dances.
      3. EnGenius
        EnGenius 24 July 2020 11: 54 New
        +4
        Let's remember HAL Tejas. The program began in 1983, the first flight of the prototype in 2001. Currently, no more than a dozen production aircraft have been built.
        1. vVvAD
          vVvAD 24 July 2020 21: 48 New
          +2
          No, why not: they have ambitions. They will learn to build very bearable airplanes at the European level, most likely within ten years.
          Another question is that they still do not have enough experience and technology for this. The first one can be taken only by having constant developments, which they do. They are trying to buy ready-made technologies - they do not steal and do not engage in reverse engineering, apparently, for fear of losing reliable suppliers or due to the lack of developed intelligence agencies as a result of a long period of colonialism.
          Also, a good aircraft of the European level is something that does not reach the level of leaders in the person of Russia and the United States, and, possibly, China - it seeks to achieve technological parity.
      4. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 24 July 2020 12: 52 New
        +5
        I'm wondering, this Indian marshal is not funny himself? They have not been able to finish the 30th generation car for 4 years, but here in 4 years they are going to make the car much more difficult, despite the fact that apart from preliminary studies on a joint project with Russia, there is nothing else. No engine, no electronics)))))
    2. venik
      venik 24 July 2020 07: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: Nemo
      They cannot create a normal 4-generation aircraft, but they will immediately burst into 5

      =======
      Evgeniy! I ask you not to throw slippers at me! What I wrote below - so at that moment your comment was not yet "highlighted". Almost simultaneously they wrote - and most importantly - "word by word"!!! Probably this is a KIND OF SOULS! fellow drinks
    3. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 24 July 2020 08: 47 New
      +1
      Indeed, what about Tejas?
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 24 July 2020 12: 00 New
        +7
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        what about Tejas?

        And you are spiteful: well, why would the Indians step on their favorite mazol - mazol does not dance laughing
        I will be sincerely surprised if we see this miracle amca flying and corresponding to the declared one. As you rightly pointed out, Tejas have been sawing for three decades
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 24 July 2020 12: 10 New
          +3
          Tejas is in service with the Indian Air Force.
          Produced 33 pieces.
          The cost is approximately $ 40-50 million.
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 24 July 2020 12: 14 New
            +3
            Even before 87 'the journal Foreign Military Review wrote about Tejas, therefore 33 pieces are an achievement and a monument to Hindu persistence
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 24 July 2020 12: 20 New
              +2
              It's right. Indians don't like to rush. smile
          2. Alf
            Alf 24 July 2020 18: 57 New
            +2
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Produced 33 pieces.

            33 pieces in 33 years ... Hmmm ...
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 24 July 2020 12: 14 New
          +2
          Dance is theirs all.
          In my opinion, if the Indians were not, uh, censored, it would have been necessary to buy a production line and a license for Mirage-80 back in the 2000s, and all problems would have been gradually resolved. In principle, the Mirage line of light fighters of its own production, which would later be joined by the Su-30 line, looks like a good option for the Indians. The Mirage, provided it is equipped with new avionics, and to this day looks like a good board, any better than Tejas.
          1. vVvAD
            vVvAD 24 July 2020 21: 55 New
            +2
            And who would have sold it to them, I would like to know? Found fools!
            Large-block assembly - please. And no one will share their own developments: how to breed competitors for yourself, it is much more profitable to sell ready-made, do not find wink ?
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 24 July 2020 22: 40 New
              +2
              Well, Mirage was already planned to be filmed. RAPHAL was taking his place. In general, of course, the Mirage-2000 in their series is not the worst idea ...
              1. vVvAD
                vVvAD 24 July 2020 23: 43 New
                +1
                Not the worst for India, but even very good - I don't argue.
                It's just that, based on the materials and technologies of the Mirage engine, you can create the same, and then a more modern one much faster than trying from scratch with incomprehensible terms and results. The same goes for avionics, life support systems, etc.
                Therefore, it is more profitable for France not to sell their know-how, but to develop it, then trying to bring the final product to foreign markets, in this case Rafale, which they did.
  2. Ka-52
    Ka-52 24 July 2020 06: 56 New
    +8
    India says its first 5th generation AMCA fighter will fly by 2024

    Is a country that has no history of creating high-tech aircraft in principle going to slap the 5th generation? Well, if only in the pavilions of Bollywood.
    Britain could transfer technologies for creating aircraft engines, and on their basis India could create its own version.

    nonsense. Screwdriver assembly - probably. Production is more than doubtful. Moreover, Britain does not possess the full technology for the production of such an engine (if we are talking about an engine for a fighter jet), because for the EJ200 turbojet engine, the British developed only a high-pressure turbine and did part of the design work for the high-pressure fuel pump. The rest of the work was done by the Germans and Italians.
  3. venik
    venik 24 July 2020 06: 57 New
    +3
    "....India says its first 5th generation AMCA fighter will fly by 2024..... "
    ========
    Oh well! They also cannot build the 4th generation - and they have already swung themselves at the 5th generation! lol
    -------
    "......At the first stage, it is planned to form six AMCA squadrons, with the first flight scheduled for 2024. The first aircraft of the new generation is planned to be put into service with the Indian Air Force by 2029, and by 2036 it is planned to release the modernized version of the AMCA Mk2...... " belay
    ======
    Bla-bla-bla-bla-bla ........tongue
    1. 1976AG
      1976AG 24 July 2020 07: 54 New
      +2
      Everything is as usual, then they shout that the planes were needed yesterday, then they hope for something that should appear in 10 years ...
  4. Alexey from Perm
    Alexey from Perm 24 July 2020 07: 04 New
    -28
    Why does India need a Su 57 if it doesn't have stealth technology? Everything is logical.
    1. And Makarov
      And Makarov 24 July 2020 07: 13 New
      11
      Quote: Alexey from Perm
      Why does India need a Su 57 if it doesn't have stealth technology? Everything is logical

      In this case, it is necessary to start a dispute that: "Is stealth technology implemented on the Su-57?"
      1. Alexey from Perm
        Alexey from Perm 24 July 2020 07: 29 New
        -25
        In my opinion, a dispute is not needed here, everything is already obvious, except for hurray-patriots, who think that the Indians are well stupid, since they do not want to take a 5th generation plane))
        1. Alexander Seklitsky
          Alexander Seklitsky 24 July 2020 13: 16 New
          +7
          Indians want to take, but do not want to pay for it. Like the last gypsy, they will bargain. Hindus, well, are very greedy. As for sous 57, the concept of stealth is implemented there. In all stealth shmels, no more than a marketing ploy. Drones, whose EPR is several times less than that of a fighter, and then they are detected and lost, what can we say about a fighter
      2. Ka-52
        Ka-52 24 July 2020 07: 51 New
        11
        In this case, it is necessary to start a dispute that: "Is stealth technology implemented on the Su-57?"

        it does not need to be argued. Because implemented
        1. And Makarov
          And Makarov 24 July 2020 07: 57 New
          11
          So I think it has been implemented. Not "stealth", but our own.
          1. Alexey from Perm
            Alexey from Perm 24 July 2020 08: 03 New
            -19
            That is, you and your friend think that the Indians just rejected the Su 57, because they do not understand anything about stealth and cannot compare a couple of numbers?))
            1. And Makarov
              And Makarov 24 July 2020 08: 26 New
              32
              They did not reject, but refused to jointly develop, due to Russia's refusal to transfer a number of technologies hi
              1. Vladimir16
                Vladimir16 24 July 2020 10: 03 New
                +3
                Quote: Alexey from Perm
                In my opinion, an argument is not needed here, everything is already obvious

                Definitely!
                If Lyokha from Perm said that there is no "stealth technology". So it is not. laughing
                It is obvious!
                The Indians launched the SU-57 and looked into their radars and ... they saw !!! wassat
                And the Chinese saw it!
                I think the Dutch saw it too !!! There is generally a smoke in the law wink wassat

                And anyone can see the SU-57! It is important to smoke the correct radar.
                1. Alexey from Perm
                  Alexey from Perm 24 July 2020 11: 50 New
                  -4
                  Vovka you've already smoked.
            2. Charik
              Charik 24 July 2020 13: 22 New
              +3
              So from Perm, then you know better why the Indians refused from Su57
          2. Ka-52
            Ka-52 24 July 2020 08: 51 New
            +2
            Not "stealth", but our own.

            stealth technology is the technology of reducing the visibility of aircraft in the radio and visible spectrum. It can be "one of our own" only in the method of achieving results.
            1. And Makarov
              And Makarov 24 July 2020 11: 15 New
              13
              Quote: Ka-52
              She can be "her" only in the method of achieving results

              I said about it. Otherwise they will be accused of patent infringement.
            2. vVvAD
              vVvAD 24 July 2020 22: 03 New
              +3
              Quote: Ka-52
              and visible spectrum

              Oooh ... the cant walks the rows laughing
              1. Ka-52
                Ka-52 27 July 2020 05: 05 New
                0
                Oooh ... the cant walks the rows

                well, smoke less. The visible spectrum is commonly referred to as infrared radiation. Unlike microwave, which includes radio emission
                1. vVvAD
                  vVvAD 27 July 2020 17: 58 New
                  0
                  Call it what you want.
                  The visible spectrum does not include the frequency range of infrared radiation, if that's what you want. The wavelength range of visible radiation does not exceed 740 nm, while IR starts from 750 nm (0,75 μm) and up to 1000000 nm (1000) μm.
                  And they call it infrared, because it starts at the edge of the visible spectrum in the red spectrum (625-740 nm). Whereas ultraviolet is at the opposite edge of the visible violet spectrum.
                  1. Ka-52
                    Ka-52 28 July 2020 04: 21 New
                    -2
                    Call it what you want.

                    ahh, well, that is, you still have some of your brains. At least in order to distort the definition of the visible spectrum from the wiki. Anyway, it's not bad anymore lol
          3. Vol4ara
            Vol4ara 24 July 2020 10: 32 New
            -2
            Quote: A Makarov
            So I think it has been implemented. Not "stealth", but our own.

            Its uncoated, and with visible compressor blades. From stealth there is only the shape of the body
            1. Ka-52
              Ka-52 24 July 2020 11: 22 New
              +5
              Its uncovered

              Do you determine the presence of coverage by eye? Unlike your alternative - in the real world, a special coating is applied to combat (combat) vehicles. Not test and prototypes.
              and with visible compressor blades

              about the radar blockers and the PC reflection scheme on the inner surfaces of the centuries have not heard?
              From stealth there is only the shape of the body

              oh, these sofa experts, they all know
              1. Vol4ara
                Vol4ara 24 July 2020 12: 26 New
                -1
                Quote: Ka-52
                Its uncovered

                Do you determine the presence of coverage by eye? Unlike your alternative - in the real world, a special coating is applied to combat (combat) vehicles. Not test and prototypes.
                and with visible compressor blades

                about the radar blockers and the PC reflection scheme on the inner surfaces of the centuries have not heard?
                From stealth there is only the shape of the body

                oh, these sofa experts, they all know

                In the real world, the coating is applied to the test machines.
                The blocker heard about the radar. And if you also heard about him, and did not read in the bustle of the wiki, you would know that he is not on su57
                1. Ka-52
                  Ka-52 24 July 2020 13: 54 New
                  +1
                  In the real world, the coating is applied to the test machines.

                  for the subjects of what? And for what? Let's tell me (and preferably indicate the source) about the procedure for testing the coating, any.
                  A fragment (plane, keel) is taken on the stand for testing. A coating is applied to it. Then a test is carried out for adhesion, resistance to environmental influences and loads, reflection / absorption of radio and infrared radiation, etc. For bench testing, there is no need to completely coat the entire fuselage.
                  if the wiki was in a bustle, they would know that he is not on su57

                  hahahaha .... wiki .... laughing
                  To begin with, let's say that you do not and cannot have data on the presence or absence of a radar blocker on the final versions of the pre-combat Su-57. In addition, the physics of absorption of the incident wave energy does not begin or end with an S-shaped explosive channel. Of course, to such small admirers of American technology such as F-22/35, it seems the only way to achieve wave damping, but this is not so. In fact, everything is much more complicated.
                  1. Vol4ara
                    Vol4ara 24 July 2020 17: 41 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Ka-52
                    In the real world, the coating is applied to the test machines.

                    for the subjects of what? And for what? Let's tell me (and preferably indicate the source) about the procedure for testing the coating, any.
                    A fragment (plane, keel) is taken on the stand for testing. A coating is applied to it. Then a test is carried out for adhesion, resistance to environmental influences and loads, reflection / absorption of radio and infrared radiation, etc. For bench testing, there is no need to completely coat the entire fuselage.
                    if the wiki was in a bustle, they would know that he is not on su57

                    hahahaha .... wiki .... laughing
                    To begin with, let's say that you do not and cannot have data on the presence or absence of a radar blocker on the final versions of the pre-combat Su-57. In addition, the physics of absorption of the incident wave energy does not begin or end with an S-shaped explosive channel. Of course, to such small admirers of American technology such as F-22/35, it seems the only way to achieve wave damping, but this is not so. In fact, everything is much more complicated.

                    And su 57 did not go beyond the bench test stage? Or do you think that if all the standards are at the stand, then everything is ok, you don't have to check on the car, but you are funny, my friend :)
                    In fact, everything is much simpler :) on all the presented su57, from the moment of birth, turbine blades are visible
                    1. Ka-52
                      Ka-52 27 July 2020 04: 50 New
                      0
                      In fact, everything is much simpler :) on all the presented su57, from the moment of birth, turbine blades are visible

                      this nonsense about "the shoulder blades are visible" goes only among stupid schoolboys. This is a coaxial radial array, not VNA blades.
                      Or do you think that if everything is normal at the stand, then everything is ok, you don't have to check it on the car, but you are funny, my friend :)

                      I'm certainly funny. Working at UEC allows you to know much more than your sofa allows you laughing
            2. Herman 4223
              Herman 4223 24 July 2020 14: 28 New
              +2
              The glider gives the strongest illumination, the largest element of the aircraft. And nothing diminishes the visibility of an aircraft as much as the shape of the airframe.
        2. AML
          AML 24 July 2020 21: 21 New
          0
          Quote: Ka-52
          In this case, it is necessary to start a dispute that: "Is stealth technology implemented on the Su-57?"

          it does not need to be argued. Because implemented


          Stealth technology has been implemented for 100500 years. The bottom of the airframe was painted blue and voila, reducing the visibility in the optical range. To fully squeeze out stealth, you need either a glider with a composite engine, or a utilizer of electrons from the surface. And so, it's all fun. And I would generally go the other way. On the contrary, it created a signal source. Irradiated the radar, get 100% illumination on the screen. Well, you know that there is a plane, well, fly, look with your eyes where he is.
          1. Ka-52
            Ka-52 27 July 2020 05: 00 New
            0
            composite engine glider

            the next 100 years are unlikely. Tk. so far no composites have been invented capable of withstanding such alternating loads at such high loads. Ceramics are of course used, but not all of them can replace.
            or a utilizer of electrons from the surface.

            the problem is not "electrons from the surface. The radar signal is electromagnetic in nature."
            On the contrary, it created a signal source. Irradiated the radar, get 100% illumination on the screen.

            this is how ground-based electronic warfare works. But in order to reliably extinguish someone else's radar, you need very powerful equipment. In addition, modern radars with AFAR are able to simply cut out someone else's signal at the hardware level and eliminate interference. Don't forget about explosive missiles that can target the source of interference.
            1. AML
              AML 27 July 2020 08: 56 New
              0
              About the plane made of composites - I agree. Technically unlikely, and insanely expensive today. If the Americans, with their insane spending on R&D, have not moved forward, then it is not worth trying for now. The same spatulas are made of ceramics, they cost all the money.

              Just because the radar stations work with an electromagnetic wave, the utilizer would be normal.
              This is a kind of analogue of grounding. When an aircraft is irradiated, electrons from its surface are not reflected, but absorbed. Therefore, there will be no flare or it will be minimized. Imagine that the glider is divided into N number of electrically isolated elements. To each element is connected, conditionally, an electroforming machine, which takes electrons from the adjacent surface.

              The advantage of AFAR over PFAR is in its smaller dimensions (no moving parts) and the fact that the field of view can be changed instantly. In addition, AFAR allows you to segment a large mirror into a bunch of small ones. Well, as a bonus, you can form the focus of the signal outside of the airframe. The latter is not sure what has been implemented in aviation AFAR. But the signal processing is carried out identically.
              1. Ka-52
                Ka-52 27 July 2020 09: 18 New
                0
                The same spatulas are made of ceramics, they cost all the money.

                the material of the engine does not contribute to the reflectivity of the aircraft. It is enough that it is placed inside the airframe, made in compliance with measures to reduce visibility. The front and rear hemispheres, where the wave can penetrate into the engine either through the explosive or through the nozzle, are equipped accordingly with a PRLU. More is not necessary.
                When an aircraft is irradiated, electrons from its surface are not reflected, but absorbed.

                the absorption of the incident wave energy is fully accomplished by the coating using ferrite particles.
    2. venik
      venik 24 July 2020 08: 01 New
      12
      Quote: Alexey from Perm
      Why does India need a Su 57 if it doesn't have stealth technology?

      ======
      And it is definitely "not implemented" there? belay At least the geometry of the aircraft exactly meets the requirements for reducing radar signature, the lantern has a special coating. And radio-absorbing materials for covering the hull were developed in our country back in the distant 80s (by the way, tests already then showed that the EPR of the MiG-23 and MiG-29 is reduced by more than 2 times!) laughing
    3. muham
      muham 24 July 2020 08: 56 New
      -10
      Quote: Alexey from Perm
      Why does India need a Su 57 if it doesn't have stealth technology? Everything is logical.
      What are you? The Su 57 is the only invisible aircraft. Neither American nor Chinese crafts can compare with him in this.
      1. venik
        venik 24 July 2020 12: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: muham
        What are you? The Su 57 is the only invisible aircraft. Neither American nor Chinese crafts can compare with him in this.

        =========
        Yes you? Can Russian and Chinese "crafts" be compared to the "super-duper * planes of the United States?" belay
        Of course they can't! THEY (Americans) are "super-duper" (see appendix (PS)), as Trump said !!!
        PS (Appendix): "dupa" - in Polish means - well .... Sorry! Well, how to say so that the "moderators" do not "banned" ...... Well, in general - like a "seat" .... lol
      2. Charik
        Charik 24 July 2020 13: 25 New
        0
        invisible is a hat in a cartoon about Dunno
    4. lopuhan2006
      lopuhan2006 24 July 2020 09: 54 New
      +1
      Maybe it's not quite implemented after all? There is no information on the final appearance with the second engine, such as: the shape of the air intakes, the shape of the nozzles, the presence of AFAR and circular sensors, weapons (especially medium range). Here are the Indians and dumped, because the implementation to the final version of the 28-30th is not earlier. In the meantime, you can your cheers-patriots about super-duper-your-best by the 24th year. Bollywood will help. Vaughn Trump is not far behind on the duper rocket. But only there it is much more real, if not by the 24th, then by the 28th, the Americans will have hypersound and not one.
    5. NEXUS
      NEXUS 24 July 2020 11: 00 New
      +8
      Quote: Alexey from Perm
      Why does India need a Su 57 if it doesn't have stealth technology?

      Why such a profound conclusion? And tell me, here is the F-35 implemented, how did you scribble it, stealth technology? And if you say that the SU-57 has no flat nozzles, then the F-35 is not square either.
      By the way, what about the F-35 with non-afterburning supersonic?
      Now, according to the article ... in 24 the Indians (let's say) will bungle the first prototype. After 8 years of testing and development (if they do not want to bury their pilots right in these planes). And after a series. And by that time, the same China will rivet generation 5+ fighters in full, and hundreds of them.
      In fact, the Indians do not have an aircraft building school. Technology too. Che they are there to scribble a rhetorical question.
    6. Charik
      Charik 24 July 2020 13: 20 New
      0
      Does the shape of the aircraft not lead to a decrease in radar signature, yes, and paint it with special paint to reduce radar-you can, that's stealth
      1. Vol4ara
        Vol4ara 27 July 2020 10: 05 New
        0
        Quote: Charik
        Does the shape of the aircraft not lead to a decrease in radar signature, yes, and paint it with special paint to reduce radar-you can, that's stealth

        Where can you buy such paint? Great to paint
        1. Charik
          Charik 27 July 2020 11: 35 New
          0
          I would paint the car
  5. spectr
    spectr 24 July 2020 07: 13 New
    +5
    This optimism will end when the plane tries to take off. It immediately becomes clear that it takes a lot of time and very narrow specialists to eliminate the shortcomings. Moreover, they should be "subcontractors" in order to understand how to eliminate (or minimize) shortcomings, taking into account the existing technological groundwork.
    1. venik
      venik 24 July 2020 07: 50 New
      +7
      Quote: spectr
      This optimism will end when the plane tries to take off.

      =======
      Keyword - TRY! good
      From a "bearded" anecdote:
      - Now, dear passengers, we are with all this bullshit on board try take off.
      PS I really don't think that it will come to an attempt to take off. Rather, everything will end with a plywood model "full-length" and, accordingly, with grandiose dances around it ... drinks
  6. aszzz888
    aszzz888 24 July 2020 07: 18 New
    +3
    Indian columnist Neelam Matthews writes that now the country's Air Force conduct "feverish" work with the HAL company in order to obtain a 5th generation multirole fighter.
    Has Bollywood been attracted? Without it, how? request laughing
  7. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 24 July 2020 07: 19 New
    +1
    This is what we put our strength into. We focused on own design, using our own technologies.
    repeatOwn design and gives AMCU. But there will be an ascomin for sure. repeat
  8. parusnik
    parusnik 24 July 2020 07: 22 New
    +7
    Do not interfere with the executioner, let them do laughing
  9. rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 24 July 2020 07: 26 New
    0
    Airplanes are not their element, they are better at dancing
    1. aszzz888
      aszzz888 24 July 2020 08: 15 New
      0
      rotkiv04 (Victor) Today, 07:26
      0
      Airplanes are not their element, they are better at dancing
      Maybe it would be better to mold the boxes on war elephants? This is more on the topic. laughing
  10. 501Legion
    501Legion 24 July 2020 07: 28 New
    0
    Let them try, of course, and something will happen. But I doubt very much
  11. Mytholog
    Mytholog 24 July 2020 07: 35 New
    +4
    Britain could transfer engine technology.

    Dream, dream ...
    Indians spoiled themselves on the Russian breadth of soul. Have become impudent.
    1. aszzz888
      aszzz888 24 July 2020 08: 17 New
      +1
      Mytholog (Alexey) Today, 07:35
      +1
      Britain could transfer engine technology.

      Dream, dream ...
      Indians spoiled themselves on the Russian breadth of soul. Have become impudent.
      Well, they fledged a little after the insolence, now they twist the figures from the fingers. laughing
  12. Ru_Na
    Ru_Na 24 July 2020 07: 42 New
    +2
    Hmm, the Indians have not even completed the project of their 4th generation Tejas light fighter, and are already trying to switch to the fifth of their own production by 2024, the question is, where do the technologies, engines come from, is it not for you to draw winged chariots in books and arrange dances with elephants? ! All this looks like another populist statement for domestic consumption!
  13. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 24 July 2020 07: 42 New
    +1
    At one time, they lost the production technology of "vimans", let them not show off but remember how to make them. And Gonesh will help them. And we'll see what they do. But I definitely won't live to see the 5th generation aircraft of Indian production. What a grief !!! tongue
  14. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 24 July 2020 07: 43 New
    +2
    So I do not understand, the war with the Chinese is postponed until the 5th generation appears? Do you want to ship dryers and Migi to you or not?
  15. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 24 July 2020 07: 47 New
    -5
    By the age of 24, God forbid, we have a serial Su57. Having a serial stealth coating, which prevents them from using it on the Su7. All the same, the Indians will buy all the components of their plane from third-party manufacturers. And to release the fuselage, it was possible to agree with the Russian Federation.
  16. bar
    bar 24 July 2020 07: 50 New
    +5
    A new round of "convulsive" dances. I think he will not be the last. By 2024, they will decide not to bother with the 5th generation and will immediately take on 6+ so as not to get up twice. Funny clowns laughing
  17. bald
    bald 24 July 2020 08: 00 New
    +5
    We forget about one thing - our aviation technology is one of the best and this is thanks not to the generals and above, but to our developers (and throughout the entire stage). And screams like India, let them walk their elephants, and how they behave when buying - generally an ass.
  18. Victor zibert
    Victor zibert 24 July 2020 08: 05 New
    +1
    They themselves cannot make normal tanks, they buy our T-80 or T-90! And about the planes, well, soon we will laugh!
  19. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 24 July 2020 08: 05 New
    0
    That we should build a house. We will draw, we will live ... tongue
  20. zwlad
    zwlad 24 July 2020 08: 12 New
    0
    The 5th generation aircraft by 2024 is great. And that the Indians have engines on which they can fly?
    1. SAG
      SAG 25 July 2020 23: 51 New
      0
      They will also create it from scratch, but already in 2 years ... Just spit, the main thing is to choose the right dance and song
  21. Wedmak
    Wedmak 24 July 2020 08: 27 New
    +2
    We focused on our own design, using our own technologies.

    Are these the technologies that were sold or donated to you by countries that already possess them? India sawed its tank for 2 decades, and produced only 124 pieces. What is a stealth fighter with Brahmos in internal volumes ???
  22. Military77
    Military77 24 July 2020 08: 48 New
    +1
    You get a Pe-2 at the exit, with pedal traction.
  23. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 24 July 2020 08: 49 New
    0
    There is so much fiction in one statement ... and here it is YOURSELF))) ... and here it is FAST ... and you give 5 ... well, apparently the practice of meditation failed ... the "seer" connected to the wrong portal. ..
  24. Prisoner
    Prisoner 24 July 2020 08: 55 New
    +3
    I read, "that now the country's Air Force is doing" feverish "work with the HAL company" and presented it live. laughing
  25. Kerensky
    Kerensky 24 July 2020 08: 56 New
    +2
    AND!!!! President of the Aerospace Consultants Society of India!
    I want to join and get such a ksivu!
  26. pytar
    pytar 24 July 2020 09: 00 New
    -4
    India's desire to have its 5th generation aircraft in service is quite normal! India is among the first world economies! The population is huge, the scientific and technical potential is serious! Sooner or later the Indians will succeed, but sooner or sooner later, the question is ... what
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 24 July 2020 09: 18 New
      0
      Sooner or later

      "sooner or later" for many countries means tens of years and billions of dollars of investment. There is, of course, an option that the Indians apply to the same licensed MiG-21FL - the gliders themselves were assembled at the plant in Nasik, and the R-11-300, specially designed for the Indians, in Koraput.
      1. pytar
        pytar 24 July 2020 10: 53 New
        -1
        "sooner or later" for many countries means tens of years and billions of dollars of investment.

        There are not many countries with advanced aviation technologies. India, no matter how many sneer at her, is a world power! True, it has its own specifics ... For the Indians, the development of the aviation industry is a matter of national prestige! I think they are ready to invest money and time as needed! Licensed production, the first stage, and then you have to develop and produce your own! I have no doubt that it is within the power of India! hi
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 24 July 2020 11: 13 New
          +1
          Licensed production, the first stage, and then you have to develop and produce your own! I have no doubt that it is within the power of India!

          under the force, perhaps, but taking into account the above - in tens of years and mile investments. National pride is a good thing, but painfully expensive. It is unlikely that anyone will sell engines with dry thrust above 9 tf, let alone the technology. Yes, even if there is a package of documentation for the engine, but you still need a technology for producing heat-resistant alloys, manufacturing and welding methods with a high degree of integrity and roughness tolerances, and a lot of other things, without which you cannot produce engine components. Even if you know how to assemble it
          1. pytar
            pytar 24 July 2020 11: 53 New
            0
            All who are now ahead, once started like that! The road will be strengthened by walking! There is no success without ambition! yes
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 26 July 2020 01: 25 New
          0
          Quote: pytar
          India, no matter how many sneer at her, is a world power!

          The power is world-wide, but ... the Indians have no aircraft building school, no specialists or technologies. That is, no, SOFSEM NET. And then invest or not invest tons of money, the result is one-irrevocable lag from the main aircraft-building powers. Even if, by some miracle, they create a fighter (well if 4 generations), then the USA, Russia, China, Europe will already have prototypes of 6th generation fighters.
          Look at China ... the second largest economy in the world. And how much time and effort and money did it take for the Chinese to create their own fighter (and this is not even the 5th generation)? Moreover, it was created with the close participation of our aircraft manufacturers. Without them, China would be no better than India in this respect.
          In this matter, money is not everything and is not even in tenth place in the list of things necessary to create your own fighter from scratch.
          1. pytar
            pytar 26 July 2020 01: 33 New
            0
            The power is world-wide, but ... the Indians have no aircraft building school, no specialists or technologies. That is, no, SOFSEM NET.

            Everyone who has now has never had it.
            And then invest or not invest tons of money, the result is one-irrevocable lag from the main aircraft-building powers.

            There is no such thing as an irretrievable lag, if the country has the resources and decides to do it! History has proven many times!
            Look at China ... the second largest economy in the world. And how much time and effort and money did it take for the Chinese to create their own fighter (and this is not even the 5th generation)? Moreover, it was created with the close participation of our aircraft manufacturers. Without them, China would be no better than India in this respect.

            China is a good example! So you can! If China can, India can too. It's a question of time. By the way, some are still yelling on forums that China "cannot create" one thing or another! For example aircraft engines! And when we look at what he "could not create" 20 years ago, about what he is creating now, all doubts go away! By the way, the USSR, too, at one time, acquired technologies from outside, and is still acquiring.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 26 July 2020 01: 42 New
              0
              Quote: pytar
              Everyone who has now has never had it.

              All aircraft-building powers had a start at about the same time. And this is not only a question of technology, but a question of the school of aircraft construction, which the Indians did not have when they were born, let alone the fighter sphere. If all this would be so simple, then everyone would develop their own and put them into series ... however, they buy from us, the USA, and from the EU. China with its power and money is only on the verge of creating a more or less competitive aircraft, and then ... the engine resource there cannot be compared with world analogues. Alloys, technologies, etc. are also not the last thing. The Indians do not and will not have all this.
              Quote: pytar
              There is no such weight - irrevocable lag

              There is, dear. Just look who is able to create a modern fighter from 220 countries from scratch.
              Quote: pytar
              China is a good example! So you can! If China can, India can too.

              If it were not for our specialists, the exchange of technologies and our direct assistance in creating their own dvigun, the Chinese would have been creating the U-2 for a long time and persistently.
              1. pytar
                pytar 26 July 2020 11: 08 New
                0
                All aircraft-building powers had a start at about the same time.

                It is not true! There are many more of them! And new ones will be added. Definitely!
                This is the question of the school of aircraft construction, which the Indians did not have when they were born, let alone the fighter sphere.

                This is also not true! India produced Kiran and Marut / Kurt Tank / back in the 60s. They successfully participated in the Indo-Pakistani wars. They still have a problem with the engines. "Kaveri" was never brought up to standard, but this does not mean that tomorrow they will not be in time.
                then everyone would develop their own and put them into series ... however they buy from us, the USA, and the EU

                They buy, acquire technologies, licenses, this is a normal way to create your own. I have no doubt about the ability of the Indians to create advanced technologies, they are very successful in developing the space industry.
                China with its power and money is only on the verge of creating a more or less competitive aircraft, and then ... the engine resource there cannot be compared with world analogues. Alloys, technologies, etc. are also not the last thing. The Indians do not and will not have all this.

                China before 30 years could not create anything advanced. Compare with now? Impressive, huh? Engines will also be created. Indians have their own specifics and bazaar, but I would not use the word "no and will not."
                Just look who is able to create a modern fighter from 220 countries from scratch.

                Why start from scratch?!?! The USSR also took from developed countries, bought licenses and sometimes just stole, but this is normal. industrial espionage. Moreover, in the modern world, technologies are rapidly flowing back and forth ... Nobody canceled international cooperation.
                If it were not for our specialists, the exchange of technologies and our direct assistance in creating their own dvigun, the Chinese would have been creating the U-2 for a long time and persistently.

                Chinese masters steal something ... Everyone does it to catch up. And further develop your own! Long and hard, not only they can do that! It doesn't matter how, but the result is important! Tomorrow you will catch up with them!
  27. Kart
    Kart 24 July 2020 09: 07 New
    +1
    Fly, fly.
    The main thing is that he was beautiful, all in patterns, colors, gold tassels around the edges, and on the nose is a portrait of Buddha.
    Here comes the prototype
    And here is the prototype.
  28. APASUS
    APASUS 24 July 2020 09: 19 New
    +1
    Does Hindu history teach nothing at all?
    The creators of the Arjun super tank, the HAL Tejas super-maneuverable aircraft
  29. Freedim
    Freedim 24 July 2020 09: 24 New
    +4
    Layout of a 5th generation Indian fighter .. center of mass adjustment:
    1. SAG
      SAG 25 July 2020 23: 44 New
      0
      Actually, you are already lagging behind in tracking getting on the wing. This is already STAND TESTS, obviously (combined with blowing on an airplane) wassat
  30. Pavel57
    Pavel57 24 July 2020 09: 37 New
    +2
    India cannot choose - checkers or go.
  31. boriz
    boriz 24 July 2020 09: 58 New
    +3
    There is always a place for feat in life ...
    They have not yet decided what to change: either the size of the airframe (in fact, the entire plane), or the size of the rocket (how will they do this without the RF?). And the flight is planned in 2024!
    However, this is just an application for a reduction in the price of an aircraft and an increase in the price of "envelopes" (in this case, cases).
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 24 July 2020 12: 07 New
      +1
      Quote: boriz
      it is simply an application for a reduction in the price of an aircraft and an increase in the price of "envelopes" (in this case, cases).

      I completely agree with you - this is such an invitation To discuss, everything else from the evil one
  32. Maks1995
    Maks1995 24 July 2020 10: 04 New
    0
    Oh, that’s all garbage.
    The Indians piled not only from this aviation project, they wrote.
    We waited for a very long time, danced, sang, probably, but then, without waiting for normal planes, they dumped ...

    They don't write about the money they have invested, but, IMHO, figure it out for yourself.
  33. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 24 July 2020 11: 11 New
    +1
    Indian columnist Neelam Matthews writes that the country's Air Force is now "feverish" working with HAL to obtain a 5th generation multirole fighter.

    With the same company HAL, which cannot properly assemble the AL-31FP? wink
    ... from the words of the Minister of Defense, it is known that the Indian Air Force has already had five accidents and 69 incidents with AL-31FP engines, produced by the HAL enterprise since 2012. Of the 69 incidents, Parrikar said, 33 were caused by swarf in the oil, 11 were caused by engine vibration, and eight were due to very low oil pressure. Accusations were made of poor build quality, which quickly resulted in fatigue, causing cracks that resulted in metal fragments and an oil circuit.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 24 July 2020 19: 39 New
      0
      You can see, for example, how many MCIs were lost and how many Su-30SMs were lost for non-combat reasons. Indicative ...
  34. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 24 July 2020 11: 18 New
    +1
    Judging by the "success" of their Tejas, AMCA will take off for the first time (and even then with difficulty) by 2050 smile
    Well, if it does go into the series, it will be 20 years after the first take-off, and on engines that are not new even now.
  35. ydjin
    ydjin 24 July 2020 12: 17 New
    0
    5th generation Indian fighter ?! At most he can sing and dance like in Indian cinema! laughing It seems as if they once made the mighty Vimans who incinerated everything in the world, but these are legends of antiquity deep from antiquity distant thousand 5 years ago.
    Typhoons in your hand if you don't need Su! lol
  36. pereselenec
    pereselenec 24 July 2020 12: 39 New
    -4
    Hindus are like a weather vane, straight ahead.
  37. Ros 56
    Ros 56 24 July 2020 12: 55 New
    +1
    The main thing is not to forget to prepare a dance for its creation.
  38. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 24 July 2020 13: 36 New
    0
    Well, well .... let's see how India "Wiman" will create the 5th generation .....
  39. Sergey Kulikov_3
    Sergey Kulikov_3 24 July 2020 14: 13 New
    +1
    The USA, the Chinese and the Japanese have already made their "5th generation", why can't the Indians do that? What kind of nationalism is this? The main thing for Hindus is to say loudly on the exhale "we are doing the 5th generation", and then on the inhale "we are doing well."
  40. Romanenko
    Romanenko 24 July 2020 14: 45 New
    0
    As a result, after a couple of years of statements about what they need, they will go to the Russian Federation and the Chinese, who will give them their airplane cheaper.
    In 2024, you have to fly on something
  41. Shadow041
    Shadow041 24 July 2020 15: 27 New
    +1
    India has already made (supertank) Arjun, and then again went to buy Russian T-90s laughing
  42. Eug
    Eug 24 July 2020 16: 10 New
    0
    Take off. May be. But before that, there will definitely be a lot of dancing.
  43. Crash
    Crash 24 July 2020 17: 02 New
    +2
    Britain could transfer technology to create aircraft engines

    This is with what cabbage soup? what
    By the same logic, they could also add: "... and money for construction"
  44. cat Rusich
    cat Rusich 24 July 2020 19: 04 New
    +2
    In the old days, when the "Mahabharata" was not yet written, Indian "balloonists" roamed the Indian sky on VIMAN. To build AMSA by 2024 is not a problem - to decipher ancient manuscripts in Sanskrit ... yes
    1. av58
      av58 24 July 2020 22: 56 New
      0
      Who said that the Vimans were built and piloted by the Indians? wink
  45. Pandiurin
    Pandiurin 24 July 2020 22: 25 New
    +1
    Quote: Pavel57
    India cannot choose - checkers or go.


    On military planes, these are not checkers
    a pixel camouflage.
  46. av58
    av58 24 July 2020 22: 55 New
    +1
    India and the development / production of modern weapons are antonyms: either one or the other laughing
  47. Gloomy skeptic
    Gloomy skeptic 25 July 2020 00: 28 New
    +4
    The Indians have already "made" the tank, the assault rifle has also been "made", now there is only a 5th generation aircraft left to "make" - that we should build a house, we will draw we will live !!! I just do not understand one thing: Why is the plane of the FIFTH generation? It would be necessary to immediately the sixth or seventh, and it is better to immediately the tenth "to do" !!! And so that at once an airplane with a stage and an orchestra pit, otherwise, to a war without songs, dances and carnivals, how will you fly ???
  48. Ruslan Nikolaev
    Ruslan Nikolaev 25 July 2020 12: 23 New
    0
    I do not even know. Ani sawed her Targes for 20 years until now, and the 5th generation is generally a question.
  49. Joker62
    Joker62 25 July 2020 18: 34 New
    0
    Well, the Indians can say so boldly ... like the gypsies in the bazaar ... let's see what they do ... It's not so easy to make a 5th generation car ... And the engine will probably be bought in Russia ...
  50. SAG
    SAG 25 July 2020 23: 35 New
    0
    Quote: engenius
    Let's remember HAL Tejas. The program began in 1983, the first flight of the prototype in 2001. Currently, no more than a dozen production aircraft have been built.

    Don't you believe the Vimans? They said in 4 years one of the most complex devices on the entire planet Earth will be made from scratch, there is no doubt ... There is no reason not to believe, we just have to sing a requiem and dance on the bones of our aviation industry.
    P. S: CIRCUS, to disgrace the whole world, they themselves do not understand ?!