Military Review

Is the LDNR People's Militia afraid of American "Javelins" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine: facts and reflections

53

It is known that the Javelin anti-tank missile systems have appeared in service with the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It's hard to argue with what it is weapon in the hands of the enemy can pose a serious threat to armored vehicles. Does this mean that the military leadership of the Donbass republics should be afraid of these complexes? This is a tricky question.


When the United States was just negotiating the supply of Javelins to Ukraine, one of the conditions was that they were not used by Ukrainian Armed Forces units in Donbas. Of course, few people harbored illusions that Ukraine would strictly implement it. Many assumed that the Ukrainian military would secretly transfer the complexes to Donbass. At the same time, America will pretend not to notice anything. But the Ukrainian Armed Forces did it easier. The Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Ruslan Khomchak officially announced in early July that each unit sent to the JFO zone in Donbass will be equipped with Javelins. By the way, the United States did not react to this absolutely in any way ...

At the same time, Khomchak did not hide the fact that when preparing the Ukrainian army, more attention was now paid to actions in the city. This may mean that the Armed Forces are preparing for an attempt to capture the large cities of the Republics. By the way, the representatives of the Ukrainian National Battalions have repeatedly spoken about this.

In general, the likelihood of the use of "Javelins" by the Ukrainian military in Donbas is growing.


But it is unlikely that the armies of the Lugansk and Donetsk Republics, having learned about the appearance of new anti-tank systems on the demarcation line, tremble with fear. They have been defending their homeland from a well-armed enemy for six years now. At the first checkpoints that appeared in 2014, the militias sometimes stood with hunting rifles, or even just with metal reinforcement, so it is difficult to scare such people with anything. But the enemy's presence of new anti-tank systems in Donetsk and Lugansk will certainly be taken into account in order to prepare countermeasures.

In addition, one should not forget about the level of corruption in the Ukrainian army. When it comes to combat use, many Javelins will be missing. As has happened with other weapons and equipment. The fact is that the US-made thermal imagers, walkie-talkies and dry rations "disappeared", which then began to surface when sold by "unknowns" through all kinds of websites.

It is practically impossible to keep track of their safety on the line of contact, because part of the ATGM can be easily written off as hopelessly damaged as a result of shelling by the People's Militia. Therefore, one should not be surprised if some of the "Javelins" who have arrived in Ukraine will soon appear somewhere in Libya, Syria or Afghanistan with any of the groups. And they can be used there against anyone, even against the American military. So, not only the LPNR, but also the US Army itself should be afraid of the Javelins, paradoxically.

It is also no secret that some of the equipment and weapons supplied by the Armed Forces of Ukraine sometimes miraculously end up in the hands of the military of the DPR and LPR. Something is being sold to them by the Ukrainian military, something is becoming war trophies. Especially a lot of Ukrainian equipment fell into the hands of the militia during the active phase of hostilities, which took place in 2014-2015.

The People's Militia of the LDNR is unlikely to underestimate the danger of the use of the Armed Forces of Ukraine "Javelins", so they are probably preparing countermeasures to counter this new type of weapon for Donbass. But what these measures will depend on the actions of the Ukrainian side. They can be extremely tough.
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  1. Koval Sergey
    Koval Sergey 21 July 2020 17: 43 New
    17
    Let's hope that overseas curators understand all the risks of using Javelins in Donbas. And then you look, and we will have "material" for study.
    1. fn34440
      fn34440 21 July 2020 17: 48 New
      +9
      "Let's hope that the overseas curators understand all the risks of using Javelins in the Donbass. Otherwise, you look, and we will have" material "to study."
      It's naive to think so. Remember with what rapture the striped men armed Tbilisi.
      With what joy the mujahideen blew up our "turntables" in Afghanistan with "Stingers" and the "butchers of New York", there was nothing for that.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 21 July 2020 17: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: Koval Sergey
      Let's hope that overseas curators understand all the risks of using Javelins in Donbas.

      If they understood, they would not give it. And if given then they know that when this thing will shoot. Before, everyone laughed about a monkey with a grenade, but now a monkey with a "Javelin" has appeared.
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 21 July 2020 19: 56 New
        +2
        ... "They have ... But we are not afraid ..."
        Summary.
        And it is written as if the militias had already begun to scratch their heads and build bunkers.
    3. NIKN
      NIKN 21 July 2020 18: 17 New
      +6
      Quote: Koval Sergey
      And then you look, and we will have "material" for study.

      This material has long been, as it were, not in the public domain. They themselves experience something really worth the secret, the benefit of "polygons" they always have in bulk. Here we can only talk about collecting statistics on the use of javelins.
    4. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 21 July 2020 19: 52 New
      +2
      Quote: Koval Sergey
      And then you look, and we will have "material" for study.

      It seems like a long time ago
    5. Alex Nevs
      Alex Nevs 21 July 2020 22: 10 New
      +2
      The main thing for them is to "cut the fly".
  2. yuliatreb
    yuliatreb 21 July 2020 17: 45 New
    0
    With the Stingers it turned out, so the Javelins are not far off.
  3. Same lech
    Same lech 21 July 2020 17: 46 New
    +4
    When the US was just discussing the supply of Javelins to Ukraine, one of the conditions was that they would not be used by Ukrainian Armed Forces units in Donbas.

    smile I think everything will be the other way around ... the Americans will fight against the Russians to the last Ukrainian ... Ukraine has long been used as a ram and will be consumed with the Javelins and without them.
    It is not clear if there is a tactic what the use of Javelins against the military equipment of the LDNR ... perhaps only from ambushes.
    The weapon is expensive and is unlikely to be used against small targets.
    1. Koval Sergey
      Koval Sergey 21 July 2020 17: 53 New
      18
      I also think that in case of escalation of hostilities, no one will keep them in reserve. Otherwise, why did you buy it then?
  4. mehan
    mehan 21 July 2020 17: 48 New
    -2
    Someone invented the ban on use in Donbass. There's no such thing.
    Av Libya, Syria and Afghanistan, they are already there, but in a minuscule amount. There is no one there to shoot them.
    But everything anti-aircraft, is a taboo, especially after MH-17.
    1. Koval Sergey
      Koval Sergey 21 July 2020 17: 51 New
      14
      There it is not about a ban on use, but about fears that it will leak to the north-east for study.
      1. Holgerton
        Holgerton 21 July 2020 19: 08 New
        +3
        It could have leaked to the northeast for a long time, but we even have our own, and the description of the GOS has long been in the public domain. The problem is that even the presence of a complex near the northeast will not help in any way, for 15 years they have been promising to make their own Javelin / Spike, and as a result, even a half-baked helicopter "Whirlwind" cannot be put into mass production in any way, everything is carried at exhibitions yes from " ancient "Attacks" sit. They constantly demonstrate concepts, research and development, development of the GOS, etc.
        1. businessv
          businessv 21 July 2020 20: 45 New
          +2
          Quote: Holgerton
          As a result, even a half-baked helicopter "Whirlwind" cannot be put into mass production in any way, they carry everything to exhibitions and sit with "ancient" "Attacks". They constantly demonstrate concepts, research and development, development of the GOS, etc.
          It's a shame you write, colleague! Unfortunately, everything is correct. recourse
      2. mehan
        mehan 21 July 2020 20: 29 New
        +1
        There are no fears there. What should amers fear? The rackets are old, they already have fresher ones. In addition, they are sure that the Papuans will not copy them ..
    2. businessv
      businessv 21 July 2020 20: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: mehan
      Av Libya, Syria and Afghanistan, they are already there, but in a minuscule amount. There is no one there to shoot them.
      There is mostly TOW
      1. mehan
        mehan 21 July 2020 20: 27 New
        +1
        Basically, yes. It's just that Jah has nothing to do there. The dukhtans do not have, and they will not be allowed to hunt the Abrams especially.
        Yes, it’s expensive to buy, it won’t fight back.
  5. Gargantua
    Gargantua 21 July 2020 17: 53 New
    10
    Some kind of incomprehensible article. It does not matter whether the LPNR fighters are afraid or not afraid of the Javelins. It is important what effective countermeasures they have in place to use Javelins! But NOTHING is written about this in the article. Although, one must assume, they are calculated. This is, first of all, a change in the tactics of using armored vehicles. The tactics of using tanks to break through the defense will have to be abandoned. The role of target reconnaissance with the help of UAVs and their suppression by artillery will increase. The main advantage of Javelin is that he can hit the most unprotected area of ​​the tank - the upper hemisphere, leaving him with almost no chance of survival. The main disadvantage is the price, which does not allow its use in large quantities.
    1. Holgerton
      Holgerton 21 July 2020 20: 02 New
      +6
      The main advantage of "Javelin" is, first of all, the mobility of the crew, which makes it possible to effectively implement an attack into the upper hemisphere despite the relatively short range of 2,5 km.
      And the short range of use in Donbass does not play a special role, because there are a lot of greenery, waste heaps, high urbanization, many technical structures, forest belts, hills, ravines and other natural barriers, so even open spaces with shots of 2-3 km in places of clashes are found not always.
      They do not remember this at the VO, or they do not like to mention it, but now the APU has 45 + 2 launchers (workers + donors for repairs) and 360 ATGMs, since each brigade is going to reinforce the rotation, then most likely the reinforcement will consist of one anti-tank platoon for 3 PU for each brigade (well, some of the platoons will remain in reserve) in order to receive 15 anti-tank platoons. For each launcher, respectively, there are 8 ATGMs, which actually fits into the organizational staffs that are standard for other countries and deliveries of 5-8 ATGMs per launcher.
      Further more, at all exercises / parades / training that were shown on the network, the "Javelin" ATGMs were in the hands not of the standard MFA fighters, who were supposed to provide ATM, but of the calculations, which consisted of DShV fighters, once even in passing showed the MTR fighters with their gray stripes, which means that "Javelin" are not going to be used as a standard means of protection against armored vehicles, for this they have linear mechanized units, which are now quite well equipped with a large number of old and new PTSs, such as old ATGMs " Bassoon / Konkurs / Shturm, new Korsar / Stugna-P / Barrier anti-tank systems, as well as a large number of Bulgarian rounds for RPG-7 and SPG-9 plus RPG-18/22, and tank KUV "Cobra" / "Kombat", well, good old MT-12 "Rapier".
      I mean that with such a "oversaturation" of anti-tank weapons, which are sufficient, and in some cases, and excessively, effective against the equipment available from the LPNR, it makes no sense to strengthen each brigade with a "Javelin" platoon precisely for the purpose of anti-tank defense, this may be concomitant goal, but the main task will most likely be raids to destroy tanks / armored personnel carriers / infantry fighting vehicles and other auxiliary / command vehicles.
      Since the DShV, that the Ukrainian SSO, firstly, have already been seen in the use of light ATGM "Corsair", and secondly have been seen in training in the use of ATGM "Javelin", it is logical to conclude that they will be used by well-trained and motivated fighters DShV and SSO, in addition to ATGM "Corsair" for active actions to destroy armored vehicles, and in combination to provide local reinforcement of anti-tank equipment.
      Concerning:
      This is, first of all, a change in the tactics of using armored vehicles. The tactics of using tanks to break through the defense will have to be abandoned. The role of target reconnaissance with the help of UAVs and their suppression by artillery will increase.

      Well, then you cannot refuse such tactics if you need to break through the defenses, since the tank itself is the most protected combat unit, and it will be difficult for light infantry to overcome the defenses, then you will have to carry out artillery fire and "Javelin" doesn't play any role here. Specifically, in our case, the role of these ATGMs is reduced to active actions to eliminate the threat from armored vehicles, through the use of both the mobility and characteristics of the "Javelin" itself, and trained specialists spent specifically for this tactic of use.
      1. Cristall
        Cristall 22 July 2020 09: 58 New
        +1
        Quote: Holgerton
        Specifically, in our case, the role of these ATGMs comes down to active actions to eliminate the threat from armored vehicles, through the use of both the mobility and characteristics of the "Javelin" itself, and trained specialists spent specifically for this tactic of use.

        yes, your comment is better than the articles I read in two days ..
        this is such a rarity in modern VO.
    2. businessv
      businessv 21 July 2020 20: 27 New
      0
      Quote: Gargantua
      he can hit the most unprotected area of ​​the tank - the upper hemisphere, leaving him almost no chance of survival.

      Platoons to cover armored vehicles from the air have long been used. I think that something similar will be used here too.
    3. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 21 July 2020 21: 31 New
      0
      In the DPR, attempts are being made to reduce the vulnerability of tanks from "javelins" ... In any case, there was a description of such an "attempt"!
    4. Ivan Ivanov_6
      Ivan Ivanov_6 21 July 2020 23: 23 New
      -2
      Don't worry so much about the price, we won't stand behind the price, there are enough darts for everyone, you are welcome.
  6. Thrifty
    Thrifty 21 July 2020 17: 55 New
    -3
    As if the "dart" is a panacea for technology! To begin with, you need not to use tanks in the city, do not expose them to be shot, at least with artisanal metal ceramics and grilles to close the upper part of the tower and the rear of the tank, it is possible to install dynamic protection on the sides and above. I am sure that we already have javelins, and we are working out methods of countering these ATGMs.
    1. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 21 July 2020 20: 15 New
      0
      Quote: Thrifty
      As if the "dart" is a panacea for technology! To begin with, you need not to use tanks in the city, do not expose them to be shot, at least with artisanal metal ceramics and grilles to close the upper part of the tower and the rear of the tank, it is possible to install dynamic protection on the sides and above. I am sure that we already have javelins, and we are working out methods of countering these ATGMs.

      Generally a panacea. The lattices are all bullshit, there is an impact core, not a cumulative jet, he does not care about the lattices, there, in fact, is a kinetic effect, not a cumulative one. It would be possible to save the KAZ, but it is not clear whether it is possible to adjust them so that the upper hemisphere overlaps
      1. Ivan Ivanov_6
        Ivan Ivanov_6 21 July 2020 23: 31 New
        -1
        No, the KAZ is set up so that a dart flying above will pick it up as not threatening.
  7. fn34440
    fn34440 21 July 2020 17: 59 New
    -1
    In the Ukrainian media, none of the Javelins advocating the arming of the ATOs has never said that the personnel armed with such a complex is a planned target.
    And the "target" is delicious.
    Even for the American army, not to mention overseas buyers. The price of a "launch container + 6 missiles" set, depending on the buyer (ground forces or marines), ranges from 650-700 thousand dollars. For US partners, it is somewhat more expensive, about 800-900 thousand. For Ukraine, the cost of such a kit is even higher - $ 1,3 million.
    But this is not the limit of the price. Many Arab, Mexican, Kosovar Albanian and radical leftist groups in Europe have more to offer.
    1. businessv
      businessv 21 July 2020 20: 34 New
      0
      Quote: fn34440
      radical left-wing groups in Europe

      Cool said! Killing flowers!
  8. Livonetc
    Livonetc 21 July 2020 18: 02 New
    +1
    I apologize in advance for the profanity.
    However, aren't these complexes basically intended for defensive actions?
    It is clear that defensive actions also include counterattacks.
    However, the confrontation is likely to be very dense and limited in mobility.
    Artillery, both barrel and rocket artillery, will operate on both sides.
    It seems that the people of Krai are much more afraid of the coming of the republics.
    They, in fact, abandoning the Minsk agreements, open a Pandorra's box, with extremely high risks for themselves.
    Well, like Russia, tired of useless negotiations will provide the republics with additional defense trump cards.
    What to lose, no further sanctions will be sent.
    1. businessv
      businessv 21 July 2020 20: 36 New
      0
      Quote: Livonetc
      Well, like Russia, tired of useless negotiations will provide the republics with additional defense trump cards. What to lose, no further sanctions will be sent.
      If it was not supplied in 2014, then there is no need to worry today.
      1. Livonetc
        Livonetc 22 July 2020 08: 08 New
        +1
        Where does the information come from that they did not provide and did not support in the suppression of the Nazi putschists?
        The Natsiks were stopped by more than one heroism in 14 year.
        1. businessv
          businessv 22 July 2020 09: 44 New
          0
          Quote: Livonetc
          The Natsiks were stopped by more than one heroism in 14 year.

          In the post to which I replied, it was not about stopping the Nazis, but about attacking them. This is what I had in mind - if the offensive did not happen in 2014, then today it cannot be expected.
  9. NF68
    NF68 21 July 2020 18: 38 New
    -2
    I would not be surprised if very soon the Javelins end up in the troops of the LPR and DPR.
  10. rocket757
    rocket757 21 July 2020 18: 55 New
    +1
    For any "cunning train", there is a bolt with a reverse thread!
  11. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 21 July 2020 19: 48 New
    0
    Javelins are serious! Unfortunately, here you have to read all sorts of crap like: "if" javelins "appear at the Armed Forces of Ukraine ... right there at the LDNR, and soon in Russia! Why did they decide that they were not familiar with" javelins "in Russia?" Practice "shows that from the moment the "product" was put into service until the appearance of the sample in the KGB (FSB) of the USSR / RF, relatively little time passes! Why do people not study history? Why do people forget (or do not know) those historical cases when they stopped and, even, they put to flight the "armada", effectively (!) destroying the advanced order !? .. the offensive of the LPNR tank units will be thwarted ... the operational-tactical plan of the LPNR command as a whole will be thwarted! This is the threat of the "Javelins" in the most unfavorable circumstances for the LPR!
  12. Smirnoff
    Smirnoff 21 July 2020 19: 59 New
    10
    This Dart is a really dangerous thing. We need an analogue.
  13. Andrey.AN
    Andrey.AN 21 July 2020 21: 38 New
    -1
    Those Javelins that the Americans put on Ukraine require a fifteen-minute cooling of the homing head before using, this exotic cannot therefore work on the defensive and can only be used by saboteurs, I can not imagine Ukrainian saboteurs with hundreds of thousands of dollars behind them who reached their target past the Arab sheikhs.
    1. Ivan Ivanov_6
      Ivan Ivanov_6 21 July 2020 23: 53 New
      -1
      Andryukha, what are you talking about? What is this hodgepodge - sheikhs, ukrodiversants and 15 minutes cooling?
  14. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 21 July 2020 23: 12 New
    0
    Everyone can stick their thoughts on a tree.
    Where is the specifics?
  15. Mikhail Belov_2
    Mikhail Belov_2 22 July 2020 06: 51 New
    0
    but is the devil as terrible as he is painted? have doubts
  16. German Titov
    German Titov 22 July 2020 08: 16 New
    0
    We'll have to call "Cheburashka".
  17. pereselenec
    pereselenec 22 July 2020 10: 05 New
    -1
    The People's Militia of the LDNR is probably preparing countermeasures to counter this new type of weapon for Donbass. But what these measures will depend on the actions of the Ukrainian side. They can be extremely tough.


    Have you already avenged Givi and Motorola, tough guys?
  18. Tutashkhia date
    Tutashkhia date 22 July 2020 10: 50 New
    +1
    "And why is Javelin"? - asked the Ukrainian, dropping to his knees.
    "True true!" - the American assured him, unbuttoning his fly, - "Don't be distracted!"
  19. Potomac
    Potomac 24 July 2020 06: 01 New
    0
    What is the loss of thermal imagers and radios? Sukhpai still believe. The author is clearly far from understanding the rigor of accounting for such things, both on the part of the Ministry of Defense and commissions from the states that provided such assistance.
  20. Kamarada
    Kamarada 24 July 2020 10: 54 New
    0
    Comrades. If you continue to sit and wait, then of course you will. But then it will have to be hard ...
  21. blackies
    blackies 24 July 2020 18: 06 New
    -1
    about nothing. some stamps
  22. kutuz
    kutuz 27 July 2020 23: 11 New
    -1
    "Is the People's Militia of the LDNR afraid of American Javelins" - complete nonsense! Why not submarines or spaceships? “Combiners and tractor drivers” who operate armored vehicles should be afraid of Jewelins, if they use they really have no chance of surviving. And what does the police have to do with it?
    Hope that they will be taken away - hardly, these are not walkie-talkies and dry rations, and it's stupid to consider the Americans fools, they know what they are doing and I think all the risks have been calculated. You can of course argue “how much was stolen and sold over the past years” - perhaps I personally “did not catch by the hand” and it is impossible to believe everything that is written on the Internet and told on TV - life has proved. There are many examples, about the fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are preparing for an attempt to seize large cities have been writing for 6 years already, as well as about the fact that Ukraine will freeze, they will not give visa-free travel, etc. - Well? Sechas "Hurray patriots" cram cons, although in this situation I am not against someone, I am for common sense!
  23. Kind Dec
    Kind Dec 31 July 2020 14: 01 New
    0
    application in Iraq revealed ... The time spent from the moment of targeting to the launch of an anti-tank missile can reach 30 seconds, during which the operator must continuously keep the target in sight. However, this time is quite enough for the armored object to disappear from the ATGM coverage area or to fire at the complex's crew. Another drawback of this complex is its low noise immunity. For example, interference in the form of an aerosol-forming cloud leads to the loss of a missile target. Also, during the fighting in Iraq, a number of failures were identified associated with damage to a transport-portable container, especially when carrying it in packs. "Delicate" and sophisticated American weapons cannot reliably work under the influence of an aggressive external environment. Thus, the peculiarities of the combat use of the Javelin anti-tank missile system, combined with the skillful actions of the opposing side, do not allow it to guaranteed to hit modern tanks in highly maneuverable combat operations.
  24. Berg berg
    Berg berg 4 August 2020 14: 47 New
    0
    The question is, are the Bandera members of the Armed Forces of Ukraine afraid of the Russian Cornets?
  25. Ilya Aksyonov
    Ilya Aksyonov 9 August 2020 11: 53 New
    0
    When the DPR and LPR oppose hurricane volleys of MLRS and all the power of Great Russia against the're coming out of the Bandera fascists equipped with Javelin missile systems, then let them have tanks, even the devil with butter, and not just Javelin missile systems. None of this will make any difference.
    The republics have already taught lessons to the Bandera fascists in the cauldrons, and now they will not rust behind them either.
    Moreover, half a million Russian citizens already live there, whom Russian President V.V., Putin and all of Russia are obliged to protect according to the Russian Constitution.