Military Review

Who and how successfully beat the American army: invincibility as a myth

169

The American army has long been recognized as the strongest in the world. But were in stories The United States and heavy defeats, indicating that it is still possible to defeat a well-armed US Army. Her invincibility is nothing more than a myth.


Early USA: British and Indians vs. Americans


Like any other great power, the United States has a long list of wars of both victories and defeats. The main advantage of the United States, in fact, is not even a strong army and not a developed economy, but its geographical position: all more or less serious potential enemies of the United States are separated from them by oceans. Therefore, even during World War II, the United States remained virtually invulnerable to the enemy. Fighting on American territory proper took place only in the distant past.

The largest American army defeat on its soil was the Battle of Long Island in 1776. However, then the American army did not really exist. British troops under the command of General William Howe landed on Long Island. The numerical superiority of the British expeditionary force and its best armament and preparedness did not give the American militias any chance: 2 Americans and only 320 British were killed in the battle. The main result of the battle was the capture of Long Island: it remained in British hands for another six years.

After the United States did manage to win independence, the Anglo-American war broke out again in 1812. But until 1814 the British were distracted by military operations against Napoleonic France in Europe, but in the summer of 1814 London was still ripe for a large-scale operation against the North American States.

On August 24, 1814, British forces, which had previously defeated the Americans at the Battle of Bladensburg, managed to capture Washington. The soldiers of Major General Robert Ross not only occupied the American capital, but also burned down the White House and the Capitol. Interestingly, the British command ordered to set fire only to state buildings, and not to touch the property of residents. For the first time after the War of Independence, the American capital was in the hands of the British. Of course, for the United States, this day became a day of national shame, which is still very reluctant to remember. Due to bad weather conditions, the British were forced to return to their ships: the occupation of Washington lasted only 26 hours.

Not so easy were the Americans and wars with the Indians. Despite the difference in the quality of weapons, the Indians were very good warriors who knew their area perfectly. The American army managed to establish control over the Indian lands, suffering heavy losses. So, in February 1876, American troops under the command of Generals George Crook and Alfred Howe Terry invaded the lands of the Indians, and in the summer of 1876 there was a battle near the Little Bighorn River. Here the Hunkpapa and Oglala Indians managed to utterly defeat the 7th Cavalry Regiment under the command of George Custer. Caster himself died, and his mutilated body was hardly identified then on the battlefield.


From Pearl Harbor to Vietnam


In World War II, American troops fought against Nazi Germany and Japan. The war in the Pacific was especially difficult, where American soldiers had to operate in the unusual climate and landscape of the islands of Southeast Asia. Micronesia and Melanesia. It was during World War II that the American army maximized and in the post-war period it already surpassed the armies of the old colonial powers - Great Britain and France.

However, the second half of the twentieth century also became the time of repeated fiasco of the American army. One of the first most striking failures was the Korean War, during which the American army was opposed by the Korean People's Army, supported by Chinese volunteers and Soviet military specialists.

In the sky over Korea, an American aviation and Soviet aircraft. The skill of Soviet pilots and the use of new jet MiGs played a decisive role in air battles: it can be argued that the Americans lost the war in the skies over the Korean Peninsula, losing about 1000 aircraft against about 300 Soviet aircraft. The outcome of the war was also not happy for the United States: the communists were never defeated, they defended their Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

But an even more serious defeat for the American army was Vietnam. Although the war in Indochina was rooted in the Second World War, when the communist guerrilla movement was formed, American military intervention in full can be counted from 1965. It lasted ten years: hundreds of thousands of American servicemen passed through Vietnam, the human losses were enormous, just as the consequences of the Vietnam War for American society were very serious.

The communists of Vietnam showed the whole world that the American army is not invincible: even the people of an Asian country that was backward at that time, even with the support of the USSR and China, managed to defend their land. The Vietnam War turned out to be a complete political defeat for the United States: South Vietnam, a former satellite of Washington, ceased to exist, and the entire territory of the country was united as the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. American troops were forced to withdraw from neighboring Laos and Cambodia.


Modernity: fled Mogadishu, got stuck in Afghanistan


The post-Soviet era in world history seemed to be a period of new triumph for the American military. The Gulf War, the fighting in Yugoslavia, the overthrow of the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Muammar Gaddafi in Libya - this is not an exhaustive list of "victories" of the Americans.

However, is the American military so successful outside their home country? The military operation in Mogadishu in 1993 ended sadly for the United States. Here, American special forces suffered serious losses in street battles with Somali militants. Then Washington, in order to avoid image losses, decided to immediately withdraw the US military from Somalia.

For almost 20 years, the American army has been participating in the war in Afghanistan, but "things are still there": the Americans failed to establish control over the country's territory, and the troops prefer to sit back at the bases, periodically performing separate operations against the Taliban.

It should be noted that the American army has not had to face a truly strong and powerful enemy for a long time. More and more third world countries or militants of radical groups. And even if the Iraqi insurgents or the Afghan Taliban inflict quite tangible losses on American troops, then a clash with a more serious adversary will inevitably have completely different consequences for the American army.
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  1. Koval Sergey
    Koval Sergey 19 July 2020 13: 10 New
    46
    I think it's not worth underestimating Them.
    1. dvina71
      dvina71 19 July 2020 13: 15 New
      21
      SO and overestimate too. Although here is Pearl Harbor on this list is superfluous. It's like 11.09/XNUMX ... Too many suspicious accidents and incidents.
      The US intelligence knew that the Japanese fleet was moving towards Hawaii several days before the incident, and quite by accident there is not even an aircraft on duty at the base.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 19 July 2020 13: 36 New
        18
        Quote: dvina71
        Pearl Harbor is superfluous on this list. It's like 11.09/XNUMX ... Too many suspicious accidents and incidents.

        USA needed Casus belli for the war in the Pacific, they created it by blocking the communications of the supply of resources to Japan.
        I am not at all inclined to idealize or justify the Japanese imperialists, but they had nothing else to do ...

        Roughly speaking, the United States drove them into that corridor, which they simply could not get out of.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 19 July 2020 13: 38 New
        10
        There are many questions, right. The confusion was not only at the base, but also in Washington: as soon as the attack became known, they could not find anyone from the country's leadership.
        But the most interesting thing is that the American aircraft carriers were the main target of the Japanese, but they just weren’t in the harbor, as well as the latest heavy cruisers, some old battleships.
        Roosevelt was subsequently accused of "setting up" in order to drag the United States into the war, but there is still no evidence, everything is too contradictory and much simply "does not fit."
        1. Zeev zeev
          Zeev zeev 19 July 2020 14: 53 New
          -10 qualifying.

          The confusion was not only at the base, but also in Washington: as soon as the attack became known, they could not find anyone from the country's leadership.

          Sunday in a non-belligerent country is a day of rest, everyone went to their dachas and guests. And they didn’t come up with mobile communications to quickly find the right person.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 19 July 2020 15: 47 New
            +8
            And should the leaders of the country, especially the military department, leave at the place of work the coordinates of the place where the messenger can find them, or at least the phone number by which they can be found? Everything was in order with the telephone network in the States, and mobile phones have nothing to do with it, they are far-fetched. hi
          2. volodimer
            volodimer 19 July 2020 17: 20 New
            0
            Sunday in a non-belligerent country is a day of rest, everyone went to their dachas and guests. And they didn’t come up with mobile communications to quickly find the right person.

            June 22, 1941 .... You just removed all charges from the ITT ...
            But seriously, as Konstantin pointed out, this is not an excuse.
            By the way, with all my negative attitude towards GDP and DAM, but on 08.08 Georgian aggression, the reaction was immediate. Although they hung out in China. It saved quite a few lives.
            Besides, how they reacted that they were able to use what mistakes the command made, this is a different matter, for we had no such experience. But the main thing is that they reacted and did not let the Roki tunnel block.
            Now imagine that the conspiracy theorists are right and Roosevelt knew ... So it was possible for the Japanese to organize Midway right away. Substituting Pearl Harbor under attack and drown the Japanese fleet while they are waiting for refueling their planes ...
            The United States would definitely not apologize for the retaliatory actions.
            Maxim is right about this, a bad "provocation".
            1. Umalta
              Umalta 20 July 2020 01: 48 New
              0
              The LADIES hesitated for the whole day, listening to all the representatives of the West, until his GDP pushed.
            2. Octopus
              Octopus 20 July 2020 09: 12 New
              -5
              Quote: volodimer
              22 June 1941 year

              A day of shame. Like December 7th.
              Quote: volodimer
              08.08 aggression, the reaction was immediate.

              Actually, the reaction was to aggression. That, as it were, leaves no questions about what kind of aggression it was and whose aggression it was. The Soviet Union knew a lot about such things, yes.
              Quote: volodimer
              And now let's imagine that the conspiracy theorists are right and Roosevelt knew ...

              And he knew, and wanted, and prepared. But not specifically about this. The United States has been openly at war with Germany and Japan since March 41, it is just that Roosevelt does not pass an official decision through Congress. Yes, this one also knew a thing or two about hybrid wars.
              Quote: volodimer
              Maxim is right about this, a bad "provocation".

              Sure. Roosevelt got into this mess, but he has no idea what is happening in the United States to the army and navy. That is, in Japan, he expected an attack in the Philippines, and when Japan attacked there - with a small part of its forces, and having warned half a day before with an attack on PX - the joint efforts of King, Marshall and MacArthur led to an incredible prospect where Kimmel and Short were there.
          3. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 19 July 2020 21: 02 New
            +4
            Quote: ZeevZeev
            Sunday in a non-belligerent country is a day of rest, everyone went to their dachas and guests.

            If only that. December 7-8, 1941 is a classic case of a mess when peacetime suddenly gives way to war.
            Few people remember that in addition to PX, a blow was inflicted on the Philippines - and much later than on PX. Moreover, the Philippines knew about the strike on Oahu. So what?
            At dawn on December 7, 1941, at 7:48 a.m. time in the Hawaiian Islands, or at 2:18 a.m. on December 8 a.m. time in the Philippines, the first Japanese bombs fell on Pearl Harbor. In 2: 30 at the headquarters of the US Navy's Asian Fleet in the Philippines, they received the famous radio message “Air attack at Pearl Harbor. These are not teachings. ”, but they did not report it to the headquarters of the United States Army Forces in the Far East (USAFFE), as they believed that they received this information through their channels. As a result, the chief of this staff, Brigadier General Richard Sutherland learned about the beginning of the war from the broadcast of an ordinary commercial radio station only an hour later, at about 3:30. He immediately called his chief, USAFFE Commander-in-Chief, Lieutenant General Douglas MacArthur, and told him the news.
            Most American researchers agree that General MacArthur had a nervous breakdown at that moment and fell into prostration. And not in the same way as in the famous fairy tales about the "escaped from the Kremlin" comrade. Stalin, but for real: for several important hours, the troops subordinate to MacArthur did not receive any orders from the command at all. And if a combat alert was announced to the US Asian Fleet, then the US Army in the Philippines mostly learned about the beginning of the war only when they came to breakfast at the usual time.
            © midnike
          4. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 19 July 2020 21: 16 New
            +7
            And then the circus with ponies began. The commander of the Far East Air Force, Major General Lewis Brereton from 5 a.m. requested the headquarters permission to fly.
            According to the pre-war plan "Rainbow 5", with the beginning of hostilities, its long-range bombers were to immediately strike at airfields on the then Japanese island of Formosa (present-day Taiwan), where enemy aircraft were concentrated, capable of reaching the Philippines.

            The answer was:
            05:00 - NS MacArthur, Brigadier General Sutherland, said the Commander in Chief was busy and ordered to wait for further orders.
            07:15 - Sutherland did not allow the Air Force commander to MacArthur and again ordered to wait for further orders.
            08:00 - after a call from the main headquarters of the army aviation with a warning "not to allow the aircraft to be caught on the ground" Brereton again calls Sutherland - he is not there.
            08:30 - Brereton lifted all Flying Fortresses and three squadrons of P-40 fighters into the air. But there is no permission to strike - the cars are just circling at the bases.
            08:50 - Sutherland finally called Brereton back, but only then to refuse again, and also to forbid him to call the headquarters and distract them with his stupidity from important matters.
            And at this time in Formosa ...
            The Japanese command originally planned to strike at US airfields on the island of Luzon, as elsewhere, at dawn. But the weather failed - the island of Formosa was covered with a thick fog from the night, and the flight was postponed. If Major General Brereton were allowed to send his "Flying Fortresses", then flying up to Formosa they would find ideal targets on the local airfields - almost two hundred fully fueled and armed aircraft. However, this did not happen, while the fog cleared, and at 9:30 the air group of the 11th Air Fleet - 108 twin-engine Mitsubishi G3M and G4M bombers with an escort of 90 Mitsubishi A6M Zero fighters - began to take off, and soon headed south.

            10:00 - the commander of the Air Force of the Far East, Major General Lewis Brereton violated the direct order "do not disturb" and for the fourth time this morning he turned to the headquarters of the US Army in the Far East. The chief of staff, no longer choosing expressions, also forbade him for the fourth time to "take any aggressive action."
            10:15 am - MacArthur gives permission to strike. The Fortresses are landing and preparations begin for the departure scheduled for 14:00.
            12:35 - Japanese bombers launch an attack.

            Thanks to MacArthur, the Air Force in the Philippines lost five hours, missed the opportunity to catch the Japanese at the airfields, and were hit exactly when preparing for the flight. \

            Source: midnike - December 41st: III. “It's worse than Pearl Harbor!”
            1. Zeev zeev
              Zeev zeev 20 July 2020 07: 14 New
              -2
              Well, that's really June 22. "To repel the attack, not to succumb to provocations, not to cross the USSR border."
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 20 July 2020 09: 20 New
                +2
                Quote: ZeevZeev
                Well, that's really June 22. "To repel the attack, not to succumb to provocations, not to cross the USSR border."

                At TO and until December 7, everything was fun. When Short and Kimmel demanded permission to increase the level of combat readiness of the forces entrusted to them, Washington told them that this was impossible: negotiations were under way with Japan, and any increase in combat readiness could provoke the Japanese side to end them.
                1. Zeev zeev
                  Zeev zeev 20 July 2020 10: 19 New
                  +1
                  Actually, two weeks before Pearl Harbor, the forces of the US Pacific Fleet were put on high alert, since, according to intelligence, the Japanese were planning an attack at that time. And then they decided that the alarm was false and everyone calmed down.
                2. Octopus
                  Octopus 20 July 2020 10: 38 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Short and Kimmel demanded permission to increase the level of combat readiness of the forces entrusted to them, from Washington they were told that this was impossible:

                  Shot and Kimmel were primarily bureaucrats who covered their asses. When asked about increasing combat readiness, a call to a friend.

                  William Halsey on the wire:
                  -Sink any shipping sighted, shoot down any plane encountered.
                  -Goddammit, Admiral, you can't start a private war of your own! Who's going to take the responsibility?
                  -I'll take it! If anything gets in my way, we'll shoot first and argue afterwards


                  On December 6, Mr. Halsey appeared to be deeply sick in the head. On December 7, it suddenly became clear that he alone was right. This also happens, and often.
                  1. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 20 July 2020 13: 40 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Octopus
                    Shot and Kimmel were primarily bureaucrats who covered their asses. When asked about increasing combat readiness, a call to a friend.

                    William Halsey on the wire

                    Short and Kimmel were peacetime commanders who command units. located in the PPD. This "Bychare" Halsey is good: he went out into the ocean, where he is a king and a god - and, well, issue orders on actions in a war.
                    And Short and Kimmel sit on Oahu, where they are tied hand and foot by the locals and Washington. Do you remember the story of the training deployment of army air defense batteries, when the Oahu mini-oligarchs expressed their highest displeasure with the army's traveling to private estates. And they threatened, if this practice continued, to complain to their friends in the Senate and Congress, as well as to tighten the deadlines and increase the cost of construction work (for the contractors for the army and naval facilities were their own companies).
                    If Short and Kimmel had switched to the second readiness, it would have been like we had before June 22 - a menacing shout from Washington demanding an immediate stop.
                    1. Octopus
                      Octopus 20 July 2020 13: 52 New
                      0
                      Yes, yes, you have already told me this. I remember that I was talking about the approval of the air defense center of the base, with the introduction of shift breakfasts, and the development of regulations on what exactly needs to be done when a message about unidentified aircraft comes from the radar. More precisely, not r development, where there, but about the translation from English into English - the Battle of Britain took place a year and a half ago.

                      This is exactly what Short and Kimmel did not have enough authority for.

                      Also, I remember, I remembered how trade unions, leftists, mafia and isolationists in Congress prevented the torpedo station from Newport from changing the steel drummer of the inertial fuse to aluminum.
            2. Octopus
              Octopus 20 July 2020 09: 19 New
              -3
              Quote: Alexey RA
              And then the circus with ponies began.

              Yes.

              Therefore, the people who justify Kimmel and Short are partly right - this is how the Americans had all... However, if Nimitz is the 12th commander of the American Pacific Fleet after Roosevelt's inauguration, it is difficult to expect a different result.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 20 July 2020 09: 40 New
                +3
                Quote: Octopus
                Therefore, the people who justify Kimmel and Short are partly right - that's how the Americans had everything.

                Reading about the Philippines, hands are not enough for facepalms. How was it possible: having an approved plan, having confirmed information about the beginning of hostilities, having a reserve of time, having an ideally substituted enemy - how could it be so enchanting to merge with all this. How is that?
                However, they could - with literally inhuman efforts, MacArthur tore defeat from the jaws of victory ...
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus 20 July 2020 09: 46 New
                  0
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  literally inhuman efforts MacArthur tore out

                  Yes, enchanting comrade. Among other things, his personal qualities are delightful, pure admiral Oktyabrsky.

                  Actually, in his entire career, I can remember one plus - he behaved reasonably during the occupation, did not crush him. There it was already not far from the Japanese people's democracy. In this, his behavior compares favorably with the cannibal Aiki (although otherwise Aiki was more rational).
          5. akarfoxhound
            akarfoxhound 19 July 2020 23: 01 New
            +3
            Labuda crap your "thought", I am telling you, as an officer in the army before the invention of mobile communications. And it's strange, right? the regiment on alarm always kept within the time schedule, including weekends. tongue
            1. Zeev zeev
              Zeev zeev 20 July 2020 07: 11 New
              -2
              The regiment, then on alarm, may have packed, after receiving the order. And here we are talking about actions from the beginning of the attack to the issuance of this very order.
        2. mvg
          mvg 19 July 2020 15: 19 New
          +6
          as well as the newest heavy cruisers, only old battleships.

          Not a weak "provocation", 4 sunken battleships, 4 damaged, 3 cruisers, destroyers, one and a half hundred aircraft and, most importantly, half a year of "full favored regime", captured Indonesia, the Philippines and a lot of everything.
          3500+ killed and wounded. It could have come up with something simpler.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 19 July 2020 15: 43 New
            +2
            Did you carefully read what I wrote? Where is the word "provocation"? I wrote that there are a lot of strange inconsistencies in this story and that certain circles in the United States blamed Roosevelt for everything, only about that.
            1. volodimer
              volodimer 19 July 2020 17: 35 New
              +3
              Konstantin, you didn't get a minus, it was really all strange. That is why the term "provocation" arose ... This does not apply to your comment, you justly noted that at the right moment for the Japanese, there were no ships in Pearl Harbor, which later influenced the outcome of the war. For a pretext for the United States to enter the war, the Japanese needed to sink a couple of destroyers and a tug, and even if a floating barracks or a hospital ...
            2. mvg
              mvg 19 July 2020 21: 44 New
              +3
              Where is the word "provocation"?

              The comment below expresses my point. And for 3 heavy aircraft carriers, they do not play a decisive role ... they just got lucky .. Considering that by the year 45 two dozen Essexes and Yorktowns went to the theater of operations. During the 5 war years, 24 heavy Essexes, a dozen Independexes, 3 Yorktowns and a bunch of escorts were built. Given the heap of battleships (England, USA), cruisers and submarines, the imperial fleet had no chance
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 20 July 2020 02: 30 New
                +2
                .. the imperial navy had no chance

                And no one argues with this, the industrial capacities and resources of these two countries are absolutely incomparable, and not in Japan's favor.
          2. awdrgy
            awdrgy 19 July 2020 18: 36 New
            +1
            But who cares what losses - the main thing is that they are not critical for further income and therefore it is a "good business" and even "very good" given their explosive growth in this particular case. If you dance from this and some other axioms, then all the actions of the ruling circles of the world are clear as twice two T e is a different moral you can say "anti moral"
          3. Varyag_0711
            Varyag_0711 20 July 2020 06: 09 New
            +1
            So the Amerzos are not trifling in provocations, there is nothing on September 11. And then the whole nation had to be convinced of the need to enter the war, and the simple Americans at that time did not want to fight categorically, they were not so bad after the great depression.
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 19 July 2020 21: 27 New
          +1
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Roosevelt was subsequently accused of "setting up" in order to drag the United States into the war, but there is still no evidence, everything is too contradictory and much simply "does not fit."

          PMSM, FDR did everything to provoke Japan to attack. But the goal of the first strike was not to be Pearl Harbor, but the Philippines. Which, according to all the pre-war plans, were given to the slaughter.
          Nobody expected to strike at Oahu at the very beginning of the war with all Kido Butai's forces.
          Quote: Sea Cat
          But the most interesting thing is that the American aircraft carriers were the main target of the Japanese, but they weren’t in the harbor.

          If the Japanese were only half a day late, they would have gotten "Big E". And if they started to retreat to the northwest, towards Midway, they would have met "Lady Lex".
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 20 July 2020 09: 30 New
            0
            Quote: Alexey RA
            PMSM, FDR did everything

            This is not your opinion, but midnay)))
            Quote: Alexey RA
            to provoke Japan to attack.

            The United States entered the war with Japan and Germany on March 11, 1941. Only Roosevelt called it An Act to Promote the Defense of the United States. He knew a thing or two about hybrid wars, yes.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Which, according to all the pre-war plans, were given to the slaughter.

            According to King's pre-war plans. He didn't tell Marshall about it. As a result, Marshall urgently searches in some hole for the first fool he comes across, who served a couple of years ago under MacArthur batman a sponsor, so that at least someone could explain to him how things are in the Philippines, where it is and what it is.
            The blockhead's name was Lieutenant Colonel Dwight David Eisenhower, 34th President of the United States.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            no one counted with all the forces of Kido Butai.

            The very existence of Kido Butai was not realized by the American side.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            "Big E". And if they started to retreat to the north-west, towards Midway, they would have met "Lady Lex".

            By the fall of 42, they had melted all American ABs, except for professional truant Sarah and just Enterprise. But that hasn't changed anything.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 20 July 2020 11: 34 New
              0
              Quote: Octopus
              This is not your opinion, but midnay)))

              It was mine even before I came across LJ midnay. smile
              The constant expansion of sanctions against Japan, ending with the oil embargo, the Hull note, Isabelle and Lanikai ...
              Quote: Octopus
              As a result, Marshall urgently searches in some hole for the first fool he comes across, who served a couple of years ago under MacArthur batman a sponsor, so that at least someone could explain to him how things are in the Philippines, where it is and what it is.
              The blockhead's name was Lieutenant Colonel Dwight David Eisenhower, 34th President of the United States.

              We remember, we remember how Ike, during this service, tried to bring MacArthur to his senses: they say, to hold a press conference and engage in self-promotion while dispersing his own war veterans - with bayonets, sabers, tanks and military agents - is not the best way to become famous.
              Quote: Octopus
              By the fall of 42, they had melted all American ABs, except for professional truant Sarah and just Enterprise. But that hasn't changed anything.

              Road spoon for dinner. ©
              After the Coral Sea and Midway, and on the eve of the launch of the Essexes, the Japanese could at least completely melt all American AVs - it was too late.
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 20 July 2020 11: 50 New
                -1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                dispersing their own war veterans - with bayonets, sabers, tanks and combat warfare agents - is not the best way to become famous.

                Good deeds cannot be made famous! (from)
                Any publication is an advertisement, except for the obituary (c)
                Quote: Alexey RA
                After the Coral Sea and Midway

                There is an opinion, forgive the AI, that if Nimitz, instead of his small raids, taught the aviators to massage the AB, like the Japanese six months earlier, would provide a normal one, I said normal intelligence by the librarians, I'm not talking about telling the British army about bombing ideas or abandoning combat torpedoes during exercises - Nagumo would be brought to zero, along with the cranes alive with such an alternative and at the same time LKR, KRT, what else he has there.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 20 July 2020 14: 08 New
                  0
                  Quote: Octopus
                  There is an opinion, excuse me for AI, that if Nimitz, instead of his small raids, taught aviators to massage AB, like the Japanese six months earlier

                  Inertia of pre-war plans - Nimitz acted in full accordance with the WPO, which envisaged (at the stage of concentration of his forces) the use of the AW for "hit and run" operations at secondary points of the Perimeter.
                  In addition, even at the time of Midway, a formation of several ABs (more than two) was for aircraft carrier commanders somewhere between heresy and an incomprehensible animal.
                  Quote: Octopus
                  provided normal, I said normal intelligence by liberators

                  C'mon, with normal organization, PBY was enough.
                  Quote: Octopus
                  I'm not talking about telling the army the British ideas on bombing or leaving combat torpedoes in exercises

                  I’m afraid that the sight of drowning torpedoes, turning around or jumping around would not raise the morale of the army too much. smile
                  Do you remember the statistics on the Mark 13 drops - one of ten torpedoes in 1941 and one of three in 1943 demonstrated a normal launch and move.
                  1. Octopus
                    Octopus 20 July 2020 14: 19 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Inertia of pre-war plans - Nimitz acted in full accordance with the WPO

                    Yes. Do not fuss and save strength. Not the most brilliant strategy, but it worked.
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    even by the time of Midway, a connection of several AB (more than two) was for aircraft carrier commanders somewhere between heresy and an incomprehensible animal.

                    Yeah. Even after this incomprehensible, but well-known animal in other countries crept unnoticed to their main base.
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    would not have raised the morale of the army too much.

                    Yeah. And the army team could start asking questions, if the naval officers were used to it.
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Do you remember the statistics on Mark 13 drops

                    1. Do you understand that the Mark 13 is not the only torpedo available to the Americans in 41?
                    2. If torpedoes do not work, then you can fly without them at all. I do not respect the feat of the torpedo bombers. The feat cannot be deliberately meaningless.

                    By the way, there is a story that one of the marauders then hit the AV torpedo from a dive. Naturally, without a result, she did not cock.
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 20 July 2020 16: 11 New
                      0
                      Quote: Octopus
                      By the way, there is a story that one of the marauders then hit the AV torpedo from a dive.

                      The Aleuts had it - a torpedo attack of the B-26 (crew of J. Thornborough) on the Ryujo.
                      If the question was why torpedoes were not used by the army pilot, the answer is simpler - they did not trust the autorpeda after a series of experiments and a couple of battles, preferring more conventional bombs.
                      An example - during the Midway-Aleutian operation, the Americans tried to use air torpedoes not only with four aircraft from Midway, but also with 73 BS forces in the Aleuts. On June 4, a pair of B-26 squadrons (led by Captain J. Thornborough) found a Japanese formation in the fog and attacked AV Ryuijo. The wingman received damage from anti-aircraft fire and left the combat course, while Thornborough saw, maintaining the speed of 140 knots, the maximum for dropping the Mk13, saw that the ship had time to turn astern, and the torpedo would not hit the target, and abandoned the attack - he entered again, and again AB dodged, and the third time was also regarded by the captain as unsuccessful.
                      Then Thornborough decided to drop a torpedo like an ordinary bomb, and began a long high-speed dive. The technicians of the naval aircraft base, where the army received torpedoes, told him that it was no use - the impeller of the torpedo must make a certain number of revolutions in the water in order to cock the fuse. But Thornborough hoped he would spin him at a speed with a stream of air instead of water. And in the best traditions of the skip, he dropped a torpedo at a distance of only 90 m from the aircraft carrier.
                      She hit the target, but having hit the flight deck, she jumped, slid along it and flew overboard from the other side without a gap - naturally, the fuse was not put into a combat position without moving in water.
                      Thornborough returned to Cold Bay (he had a golden navigator, forgot his last name, from the pre-war masters of ice reconnaissance in Alaska, Inuit Indian), dirtyly covered with a square curse "the torpedo is a naval weapon, and the fleet, and the sea is full-time in general", ordered re-equip the plane with the usual 227-kg FAB, and took off again.
                      But here he was no longer lucky - the plane simply disappeared.
                      © M. Tokarev
      3. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 19 July 2020 13: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: dvina71
        Although here is Pearl Harbor on this list is superfluous. It's like 11.09/XNUMX ... Too many suspicious accidents and incidents.
        So he is not on the list.
        And quite by accident there is no one on duty even at the base of aviation.
        What is there. On the eve of the U.S. aircraft carriers transferred to the Atlantic.
        Therefore, when the commander of the US Pacific Fleet, Admiral Richardson, completely tired of Roosevelt with warnings that the fleet in Pearl Harbor awaits the very fate that was in store for him, the president removed him in 1940 from this position with the words: "Joe, you are so good and did not understand. "
        1. dvina71
          dvina71 19 July 2020 14: 00 New
          0
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          So he is not on the list.

          YOU obviously did not read the article or read sideways. Do it again and carefully.
          1. Mavrikiy
            Mavrikiy 19 July 2020 20: 50 New
            0
            Quote: dvina71
            YOU obviously did not read the article or read sideways. Do it again and carefully.

            You either did not read it or did not understand what you read. Read it carefully. No article in Pearl Harbor. request
        2. Zeev zeev
          Zeev zeev 19 July 2020 14: 45 New
          +2
          Well, not all US aircraft carriers were transferred to the Atlantic. "Lexington" and "Enterprise" were in the Pacific Ocean, on the eve of a possible attack by Japan, transported planes to reinforce air groups on the islands of Midway and Wake. Saratoga underwent modernization in San Diego (Pacific Ocean). The old Langley, converted into an air transport, carried planes for the Australian Air Force, also in the Pacific Ocean. Who's left there? Ranger, Wasp and Yorktown covered Lend-Lease convoys for Great Britain. These yes, in December 1941 they were in the Atlantic, and they have been there since May. There was also a freshly built Hornet in the Atlantic, which was in the process of training the team. That is, on the eve of the Japanese attack, the US aircraft carrier group did not leave the Pacific region anywhere.
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 20 July 2020 09: 38 New
            0
            Quote: ZeevZeev
            the US aircraft carrier group did not leave the Pacific region anywhere.

            )))
            The Americans hid most of their aircraft carriers ... in the shipyards. On December 7, 5 Essexes, 3 (future) Independences.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 20 July 2020 16: 23 New
              0
              Quote: Octopus
              The Americans hid most of their aircraft carriers ... in the shipyards. On December 7, 5 Essexes, 3 (future) Independences.

              And everything is on the Atlantic coast. Is this not another reason for conspiracy thesis? wink

              Well, who cares that on the Pacific coast they were mainly engaged in ship repair, and all the big pots were built in the old lands and put into operation on the Atlantic. And only with the beginning of the mobilization of the shipbuilding industry, shipbuilding in the West went up sharply.
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 20 July 2020 16: 45 New
                +1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                And everything is on the Atlantic coast. Is this not another reason for conspiracy thesis?

                The villain Roosevelt knew that aircraft carriers were the Weapon of Victory, and he hid them (all two) I won't say where. And so that no one would guess at all, from April 36th to April 41st, he lays down 1 aircraft carrier (Hornet) and 10 battleships.
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 19 July 2020 21: 29 New
          +2
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          What is there. On the eve of the U.S. aircraft carriers transferred to the Atlantic.

          And who then delivered the planes to Wake and Midway before the start of the war? And whose scouts were caught in the morning batch over Oahu? wink
      4. Doctor
        Doctor 19 July 2020 14: 29 New
        +4
        The US intelligence knew that the Japanese fleet was moving towards Hawaii several days before the incident, and quite by accident there is not even an aircraft on duty at the base.

        If America needed a war with Japan, it was not necessary to let them sink 4 battleships and damage 4 more.
        The very fact of the attack on the base is enough.
        The Germans had enough provocation with an attack on a radio station in Glavice.
      5. Zeev zeev
        Zeev zeev 19 July 2020 14: 56 New
        +1

        The fact that the Japanese fleet was moving to Hawaii was known to US intelligence a few days before the incident.

        US intelligence knew that Japanese aircraft carriers left the base. Nobody knew where they were going.
        1. volodimer
          volodimer 19 July 2020 17: 41 New
          0
          And we have one admiral
          on the night of June 22 gave the order to bring them in full combat readiness, which avoided the loss of ships
          .... Not a reason to throw stones at those who did not, but still
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 20 July 2020 09: 33 New
            +1
            Quote: volodimer
            And we have one admiral
            on the night of June 22 gave the order to bring them in full combat readiness, which avoided the loss of ships
            .... Not a reason to throw stones at those who did not, but still

            The problem is that, unlike P-Kh, no one planned to bomb our bases. The Germans wanted to lock the fleet in the bases with mine laying - and did their best for this.
            At the Black Sea Fleet, the backlashes managed to place magnetic mines right in the fairway by the head of the base - the air defense woke up only when the last aircraft approached. In the Baltic, despite all the readiness, the fleet managed not only to oversleep the laying of mines at the mouth of the Gulf of Finland and in the Nargen-Porkkala-Udd region, but also to lose messages about the discovery of mines and mines. As a result, on the second day of the war, the cover group for our mine laying went straight to the German minefield - the "Gnevny" EM was lost, the "Maxim Gorky" cruise missile lost its nasal end.
            Within one day, the enemy almost paralyzed the activities of the fleet in the Gulf of Finland, today it is impossible to send a single ship into the sea without risk
            © Tributs
      6. avg
        avg 19 July 2020 19: 20 New
        +2
        SO and overestimate too.

        That's for sure. Suffice it to recall how long and how the allies butted the Japanese in the Pacific theater of operations, and how much ours needed for the millionth Kwantung Army. (There would have been an order, and Tokyo would have been taken) Or, as they cheerfully disembarked in Normandy, they were going to sit out a little and then march to Berlin, but the very first "serious Germans" explained to them "what's what", so much so that remembering " Dunkirk "1940, Churchill urgently turned to Stalin for help.
        This is where they are really masters, so it is in the grand PR of their successes and the mixing of failures. Here I take off my hat. hi
        So, we will look at both the "godfathers" and the "grubbers" with a sober and cold look. sad
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 20 July 2020 09: 59 New
          +2
          Quote: avg
          how much it took for our millionth Kwantung army.

          One day, August 9. Only "ours" are a little past the box office.
          Quote: avg
          or, as they cheerfully landed in Normandy, they were going to sit out for a while and then march to Berlin, but the very first "serious Germans" explained to them "what's what"

          They crushed serious Germans. Unfortunately, the Americans did not have armies the General Staff, unlike the Germans, so they were not aware that when supplying vehicles, the depth of operation cannot exceed 500 km (from the border of the 41st year to the Dnieper-Dvina border, for example). So they went their 500 km, they got up for six months, because the French railways bombed exceptionally well, and Monti did not consider it necessary to deal with Antwerp.
          Quote: avg
          Churchill urgently turned to Stalin for help.

          What's this about? About the Vistula-Oder again?
          Quote: avg
          what are they really masters in is the grand PR of their successes and mixing failures

          Yes you are right. This led them to a draw in Korea and defeat in Vietnam. Fortunately, Vietnam failed to "mix", so, finally, the Americans closed the topic of the militia and by the 80s got themselves a normal army.
          1. Korax71
            Korax71 21 July 2020 07: 02 New
            0
            This is from which side to look. The love of the high command in the UK and Nama is an indisputable loss. The actions of the troops directly, everything is far from so unambiguous. Of course, if we compare the US Army 50s-70s and, for example, the beginning of the 90s, there are two big differences. In general, when these brave guys laughing everything goes according to planning, it always turns into a beating of a first grader by a high school student.
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 21 July 2020 07: 20 New
              +2
              Quote: Korax71
              This is from which side to look. The love of the high command in the UK and Nama is an indisputable loss. The actions of the troops directly, everything is far from so unambiguous

              So no one says that the Americans lost in the military unit. The loss was made up of two factors:
              1. The crisis of the policy of containing communism. The delusional nature of this idea was obvious from the outset, but for many decades a cowardly American political gopot tried to force it.

              War is not won by deterring.

              2. The crisis of the militia type army. Militias don't work, especially in colonial wars. The Americans, again, refused to admit this for a very long time.
              1. Korax71
                Korax71 21 July 2020 08: 02 New
                0
                Agree drinks in general, the Americans of that period are very peculiar to them, they all, like A. Raikin: "let everything be, but let something be missing" laughing It seems that after Korea they thought the right move, they completely revised the program of physical training of personnel of the armed forces, but, as you rightly noted, you did not draw conclusions about the use of the Air Force and that the war cannot be won by aircraft alone.
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus 21 July 2020 08: 12 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Korax71
                  that airplanes alone cannot win the war.

                  They couldn't win Vietnam anyway. The State Department has shown its utter incompetence. Fortunately for the Americans, they had Nixon, who planted a hefty ice ax in the cause of peace in 72.

                  The military can only lose or not lose the war. Wars are always won and only politicians.
      7. Shooter 05
        Shooter 05 19 July 2020 20: 20 New
        +2
        better to overestimate than underestimate .... folk wisdom)
      8. aftbreeze
        aftbreeze 22 July 2020 16: 56 New
        0
        Nothing of the kind, US intelligence did not even suspect that the Japanese fleet was moving towards Hawaii, because all radio operators from the ships participating in the attack were moved ashore in advance and, with their continued work on the air, imitated the usual daily ...
      9. Berkut752
        Berkut752 5 September 2020 17: 59 New
        0
        This is the essence of war. According to your psi ... we should have notified the Japanese, just a little, we are not ready to meet your planes.
    2. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 19 July 2020 13: 15 New
      +2
      Quote: Sergey Koval
      I think it's not worth underestimating Them.

      Of course not, this is a serious and dangerous opponent.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 19 July 2020 14: 27 New
        +6
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        Of course not, this is a serious and dangerous opponent.

        Sneaky and treacherous, not disdaining the executions of civilians, fighting with a reliably weak (in the field of armaments) enemy.
        1. your1970
          your1970 19 July 2020 15: 46 New
          +4
          Quote: ROSS 42
          belligerent with a reliably weak (in the field of armaments) enemy.

          This is generally the way it should be. It is not necessary to attack the strongest enemy, to beat the weakest is an ideal option for any army in the world ....
    3. Finches
      Finches 19 July 2020 15: 47 New
      -1
      Even Ivan Kozhedub in the skies over Berlin at the end of the Great Patriotic War twice gave a flight skill lesson to presumptuous "allies" ... laughing
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 20 July 2020 10: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: Finches
        Even Ivan Kozhedub in the skies over Berlin at the end of the Great Patriotic War twice gave a lesson in flight skills

        Again.

        This story appeared in the 90s, after the death of Kozhedub. In the worst days of the Cold War, no one threw this in.

        Which, in my opinion, shows that the standards of shamelessness of the USSR were exceeded in free Russia instantly, radically and irrevocably.
        1. Finches
          Finches 20 July 2020 10: 43 New
          -1
          Excuse me, are you a little crazy?
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 20 July 2020 10: 49 New
            +2
            It is you, I look, not in the know. The Mustang story has a well-known author. And this is not Kozhedub.
            1. Finches
              Finches 20 July 2020 10: 56 New
              -1
              I am glad for you - that you know! And I think that this is quite enough! hi
    4. Russian Central Asian
      Russian Central Asian 19 August 2020 03: 21 New
      0
      Ay, I still beg you, if that we can easily shower them with hats. You just need to find out which hats on them have the most powerful effect and cause the greatest damage.))))
  2. Catfish
    Catfish 19 July 2020 13: 32 New
    -2
    One of the first most notorious failures was the Korean War, during which the Korean People’s Army opposed the American army with the support of Chinese volunteers and Soviet military experts.

    The author somehow forgot to mention how this war began and who attacked whom first.
    1. chenia
      chenia 19 July 2020 13: 53 New
      +3
      Quote: Sea Cat
      and who attacked whom first.


      Is the DPRK on the United States?
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 19 July 2020 13: 59 New
        -4
        Read the history of this war, then you will not ask stupid questions.
        PS Minus, by the way, is not mine.
        1. chenia
          chenia 19 July 2020 15: 50 New
          +6
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Read the story of this war

          You still remember about the UN. This is the internal showdown of one country. And the states (under the guise of it) are definitely not defending justice and democracy.
          Then you will not give "smart" advice.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 19 July 2020 15: 52 New
            -2
            And I did not say that the States defended some kind of "justice" there, I spoke about who first started this war, and it was North Korea.
            1. Gato
              Gato 19 July 2020 16: 15 New
              +5
              hi
              I did not understand the essence of your dispute at all. What difference does it make who was the first to start active actions if the constitutions of both Koreas stipulate jurisdiction over the entire territory of the country, including over the "temporarily occupied" one?
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 19 July 2020 16: 41 New
                -2
                hi It makes no difference that "it is cut, that it is shaved", in fact, the northerners started, although it makes absolutely no difference to me. And I do not like it when my words are misinterpreted. smile
              2. volodimer
                volodimer 19 July 2020 18: 05 New
                +2
                Greetings picturesque namesake laughing hi
                Indeed, how not to relate to the causes and results of that war, the article is not about that. The United States intervened in it, hoping, relying on its military might, to quickly and unconstrainedly reset North Korea. It didn't work out! And this is the main point. It was then that the first bell sounded, in the presence of overwhelming technical superiority, they cannot do anything with an adversary with high motivation. Vietnam has confirmed this. Iraq was bought, remember Al-Najaf, An-Nasiriyah ... There was a militia that was from Shiites, who seemed to hate Saddam and Sunnis, and these settlements were taken many times ... Afghan, it's just a failure. Yugoslavia, there is "undoubted" 3 months of bombing ... If not for the betrayal of EBN, then everything could be different.
                1. Gato
                  Gato 19 July 2020 19: 53 New
                  +2
                  And I greet you hi
                  namesake
                  - another confirmation that the aesthetic preferences of outstanding minds coincide laughing
                  Actually, the United States intervened in the war with the goal of stopping communism. To the possibility of a plot with our avatars, some of your comrades in the United States took quite seriously, even jumping out of windows.
                  1. Octopus
                    Octopus 20 July 2020 10: 47 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Gato
                    right up to jumping out of windows.

                    If you are talking about Forrestal, then this is American Serdyukov. Truman put him in order to restore order with the money, but he quickly went crazy over the scale of theft, intrigue, lobbying and betrayal that came to light in the American Armed Forces. And there was something - the head of the OKNS Bradley, with a blue eye, said that he could offer 4,6 billion a year for the native land for his native country with one division without heavy weapons.
                    1. Gato
                      Gato 20 July 2020 16: 33 New
                      0
                      he quickly went mad from the scale of theft, intrigue, lobbying and betrayal

                      laughing Betrayal in favor of whom?
                      If we were going crazy from all this, then we ... then it’s even scary to continue belay
                      1. Octopus
                        Octopus 20 July 2020 16: 50 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Gato
                        If all of this went crazy, then we

                        We have grated, familiar people. So the same Serdyukov did not jump out of the window, I had to catch on a woman. But in America, the scale of Roosevelt's management was underestimated even by Truman, who there was something like Roosevelt's Navalny.
                        Quote: Gato
                        Betrayal in favor of whom?

                        By the 50th year, the brave Marshals of Victory destroyed and plundered the army just outright. The troops in Korea did not even have uniforms in the kit, let alone non-working bazookas, for example.
          2. Terrible GMO
            Terrible GMO 19 July 2020 17: 59 New
            -7
            Quote: chenia
            This is the internal showdown of one country.

            Internal squabbles of one country begin with asking permission from the USSR to start the war, begging for its weapons, and later a million Chinese "volunteers"?
            1. chenia
              chenia 19 July 2020 18: 29 New
              +2
              Quote: TerribleGMO
              and later


              In, later, this is when the UN troops (i.e. mostly striped) crawled in. And before that, the internal showdown. Both sides were supported by equipment and trained personnel by interested players. Well, they didn't interfere. And when the UN (that is, the states ..).
              Then
              Quote: TerribleGMO
              and a million Chinese "volunteers"?
    2. Kronos
      Kronos 19 July 2020 14: 56 New
      +2
      South Koreans regularly attacked North Koreans
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 19 July 2020 15: 50 New
        -4
        Describe in more detail: when, how many times, in what quantity and by what forces. Here, in general, we are talking about a full-scale war, and not about provocations on the border.
        1. vindigo
          vindigo 19 July 2020 21: 24 New
          +4
          Just unbelieveble! It looks like this topic is being hushed up on the Internet! You can find any material about the Korean war, but after the attack of the troops of North Korea and specifically about the zero stage it was written that yes, there were a lot of provocations from the side of South Korea. I even remember the chronology of these battles with the number of troops participating in the battles and the number of victims. But now there is nothing! I’ll try to try searching through Korean, but I think there’s certainly everything about it.
    3. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 19 July 2020 15: 12 New
      +2
      An article of this nature can be written about any army in any country. Well, maybe apart from the Principality of Monaco and the Vatican.
      And so ... In any country there are military ups and downs.
      1. volodimer
        volodimer 19 July 2020 18: 11 New
        +3
        You can write, but the author decided to consider one specific army, in terms of whether it is worth extolling. The review shows that at least she can be beaten and inflicted serious damage on her, but as a maximum (and here Vietnam) she can be defeated. Yes, it will not be like surrender of 1945, but it will be a solution to the tasks set. Namely, the withdrawal of the US Army from this region.
        1. Korax71
          Korax71 21 July 2020 07: 32 New
          0
          The departure of the grouping of troops from the Nama is the merit of the political elite, and not the NEA and NFYU troops. Throughout the war, the NEA army was never able to carry out humanly, with the achievement of any significant strategic achievements, not a single operation. during the armistice it had a very short-term success, although it was necessary to pay for this success and, having taken it in full, for almost a year to forget about any large-scale actions.
      2. Varyag_0711
        Varyag_0711 20 July 2020 06: 23 New
        -2
        Chief of the Redskins (Nazarius)
        An article of this nature can be written about any army in any country. Well, maybe apart from the Principality of Monaco and the Vatican.
        And so ... In any country there are military ups and downs.
        What is one success of the US Army?
        1. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 20 July 2020 07: 09 New
          -3
          Yugoslavia.
        2. Octopus
          Octopus 20 July 2020 10: 06 New
          +1
          Quote: Varyag_0711
          What is one success of the US Army?

          They have won all the wars they have gotten into since the days of just burnt out Washington. But it was relatively often found out that the war they entered into was no longer in line with the party line. When elections are held every two years, and not only the line, but also the party changes on them, this happens all the time.
    4. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 20 July 2020 00: 00 New
      +1
      According to the DPRK, South Korea attacked the north, breaking through in some areas up to 2 km. The USSR also adhered to this version.
      According to the American version, the DPRK attacked South Korea.
      1. vindigo
        vindigo 20 July 2020 09: 20 New
        +2
        This situation can be compared with Chechnya and Russia. If we also close our eyes to the raids of militants in Dagestan, terrorism and bomb explosions, then we can say that Russia is an aggressor, attacked the peaceful defenseless Chechnya with its well-trained army, ready for seizure. The Americans themselves do not give up numerous provocations from South Korea
      2. Korax71
        Korax71 21 July 2020 07: 34 New
        0
        A war is always started by the one who is more ready for it. If you start to study the composition and readiness of the armed forces of both Koreas before the start of hostilities, then a lot will immediately fall into place.
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 21 July 2020 11: 17 New
          0
          Today we know this 70 years later, but in those years with the study of the composition, everything was not so simple.
  3. Gato
    Gato 19 July 2020 14: 06 New
    +5
    There are no invincible armies. There have been undefeated armies - but this is no longer their "fault". request The army of Alexander, the Red Army, the SA remained undefeated, I personally especially like the People's Army of Vietnam, which is also invincible and is still alive drinks .
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 19 July 2020 19: 52 New
      +5
      Genghis Khan can be remembered or Tamerlane. By the way, the SA in Afghanistan and the Yankees in Vietnam lost only politically. South Vietnam was defeated after the Americans were withdrawn, and the Tet offensive and later, Easter, were militarily disastrous. Mujahideen in Afghanistan too - sat in the mountains until ours left
      1. Gato
        Gato 19 July 2020 20: 15 New
        +2
        Yes, I agree. In addition, the goals of the war should be taken into account. I don’t know exactly what goals the USSR pursued in Afghanistan, but those that were declared — the non-deployment of medium-range missiles and the prevention of Western influence on the country — seem to have been successfully achieved. The USA, too, seemed to be able to stop the spread of socialist influence. What is Vietnam now?
        As for the Mongols, I would also recall Khubilai, who had clearly become a protagonist of Alexander, but unlike him, he rested in the Bose at the age of 78, the founder of the Yuan Dynasty and the ruler of the largest empire in the world. Well, which of them is really Great? laughing
  4. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 19 July 2020 14: 15 New
    -3
    What I would like to say about the US Army ...
    For decades, the military operations of the American army have shown us how fights without rules are professional athletes with street gopniks.
    Quote: Sergey Koval
    I think it's not worth underestimating Them.

    Quote: dvina71
    SO and overestimate too.

    It is also necessary to take into account the factor that it is also wrong to underestimate the RF Armed Forces and the weapons in the troops. Everyone remembers how the US military reacts to a “sudden” defeat from an underestimated enemy. And Russia possesses a number of models of such weapons, which can put into a stupor any arrogant foe.
    And even the labels and stripes of the "great and invincible" army of the world are not able to thrill the Russian (Russian) soldier (officer) ... the Iranian coast guard too ...
    And, despite all the victorious reports of the American military, there are those who extinguish the ardor of presumptuous:
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 19 July 2020 14: 59 New
      -2
      Are you talking about mega weapons that were not used in real battles, but a priori the best in the world?
    2. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 19 July 2020 19: 58 New
      -1
      Everyone is looking for a continuation of the video. What did the American say? Officer: I don’t need a translator. I’m sorry to land.
    3. Octopus
      Octopus 20 July 2020 10: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Everyone remembers how the US military reacts to a “sudden” defeat from an underestimated enemy.

      I do not remember. Are you hinting at HiN?
      Quote: ROSS 42
      there are those who extinguish the ardor of presumptuous:

      Yes of course. These, which are extinguished, are in the USA itself. When politicians behave strangely, take the same gambit with the Kurds, the Army cannot afford to be extreme.

      Although, in general, it should be noted that it is not typical for Americans to betray their soldiers. Unlike.
  5. Free wind
    Free wind 19 July 2020 14: 22 New
    +4
    The British defeated the US Army, which did not exist, just the brilliance of the phrase. wassat In Korea, the Americans and their allies lost to the people more than half as much as the Chinese and Sowing Koreans. The whole war, where the North Koreans began, ended on that. Moreover, the Americans were not ready for an attack by North Koreans on South Koreans, Truman was going to the dacha in general, weeding potatoes. In Vietnam, it was more about politics than defeat. 70000 US casualties, 1,5 million North Vietnamese casualties. Plus they endured a lot of experience and came to a professional army. The author politely kept silent about Iraq, both times Iraq was rolled into a pancake. Although the Iraqi army had extensive combat experience, they fought with Iran for 10 years. Judging by the article the Americans do not have an army, I am a misunderstanding. Oh well.
    1. Terrible GMO
      Terrible GMO 19 July 2020 18: 03 New
      -1
      Quote: Free Wind
      In Vietnam, it was more of a policy than a defeat

      Not sooner, but definitely. The Northern ones were already running out of prepared units in any way and they were extraordinarily lucky that the growth of the "hippie" movement and extraordinary anti-military sentiments in the United States fell during this period.
    2. Cristall
      Cristall 20 July 2020 00: 32 New
      -2
      Quote: Free Wind
      Judging by the article, the Americans do not have an army, I am a walking misunderstanding. Oh well.

      the author's task was to belittle the strength of the army.
      Therefore, I pulled on various events. Without even thinking about what he wrote.
      A serious approach would be to analyze all conflicts with the United States. How many defeats / victories.
      In this century
      This is the most warring country in the world! Globally, she fights on all continents.
      Somewhere she has local victories and defeats
      Globally, it finished with a victory in TO and World War II, having approved its currency and nuclear weapons the title of Superpower number 2.
      You can belittle the role of the leader of the world's armies and economies in any way you want. Respond destructively and bury them on the sidelines ...
      However, this country has fought and is fighting the most. She has the best logistics and logistics. And the best fleet.
      And the best connection. And the dollar.
      They can lose. They fail in many ways.
      They may not even take risks. They will prefer to buy trite if possible.
      But they cannot be taken away number one place in the army and navy and communications and logistics.
      And experience.
      Try to find someone who is globally at war like the United States? Now...
      the country has been the irreplaceable world leader for a decade.
      It can be defeated or defeated somewhere locally ..
      Until this is her territory.
      And no other army has set foot on its territory for several centuries ...
  6. Gato
    Gato 19 July 2020 14: 33 New
    0
    It seems to me that it is possible to judge the combat effectiveness of an army only by the results of its actions against a more or less equal (or better superior) enemy. From this point of view, we cannot say anything intelligible about the modern American army, nor about the army of the Russian Federation, nor about the PLA - only slogans, wanging and phallometry. We can judge about the Ukrainian army, about the Azerbaijani and Armenian - we will probably also find out soon, and the rest is just hypotheses. And thank God.
    1. Morrrow
      Morrrow 19 July 2020 14: 49 New
      0
      Yugoslavia and Iraq are strong contenders for any army in the world.
    2. Octopus
      Octopus 20 July 2020 10: 17 New
      +3
      Quote: Gato
      It seems to me that it is possible to judge the combat effectiveness of an army only by the results of its actions against a more or less equal (or better superior) enemy.

      Then only Israel.

      But you are wrong. People who closely followed the same Iraq 91, and 2003, were freaked out by what they saw. And I don't mean aviation at all.

      The Wehrmacht is back.

      By the way, the same awesomeness, but with a different sign, was in the West of the PCHV. This army going to fight with the Desert Storm army?
      1. Rakovor
        Rakovor 20 July 2020 11: 07 New
        -2
        Not tired of writing all kinds of nonsense?
  7. oleg ekb
    oleg ekb 19 July 2020 15: 11 New
    -3
    by the way, sorge warned about pearl harbor ... but hid the golikov in a folder
    1. your1970
      your1970 19 July 2020 15: 52 New
      +2
      Quote: oleg ekb
      by the way, sorge warned about pearl harbor ... but hid the golikov in a folder

      To attach the United States to the war against the enemy of the USSR, he could even eat them, and that would be right for the USSR
      1. Pavel57
        Pavel57 19 July 2020 18: 55 New
        -2
        The Americans knew about the Japanese attack even without Golikov. But I needed a reason to get into the war
  8. Operator
    Operator 19 July 2020 15: 36 New
    -2
    US troops in the Philippines in 1942, having lost 2500 killed and 5000 wounded, shamefully surrendered to the Japanese, who captured 100 thousand prisoners after the American commander General MacArthur with his headquarters abandoned his subordinates and flew to Australia.
    1. ratveg
      ratveg 20 July 2020 06: 17 New
      -1
      Don’t read the moronic Wikipedia, they forgot a zero there. 25 Americans were killed in the Philippines in 000. Of the 1942 Americans captured, there were 78 people, the rest are local Filipinos. Bata’s death march is google and see photos
      1. Operator
        Operator 20 July 2020 14: 17 New
        -4
        Learn history - the Philippine military units were part of the US military because the Philippines in 1941 was a US overseas territory, not a sovereign state.

        Death March - Happy Americans who surrendered in the Philippines celebrate US Independence Day at the Kasisang POW camp in Malaubalau

        1. ratveg
          ratveg 21 July 2020 08: 45 New
          -1
          Dear, what are you writing about? First, they wrote fierce crap about 2,5 thousand killed. Taken from a moronic page on Wikipedia. It was not enough to see losses in books. 25 thousand were killed there. I do not argue who the Philippines were in 1941. I say that out of 80 thousand captive Americans, only 11 thousand were. Photos of dead Americans in this march are dark, but for some reason they are not inserted into the message, you can see here https://www.google.com/amp/s/m .fishki.net / 2242400-bataanskij-marsh-smerti.html% 3famp = 1. I quote: "At dawn on April 9, 1942, contrary to the orders of Generals Douglas MacArthur and Jonathan Wainwright, Major General Edward King, Commander of the Luzon forces driven back to Bataan Peninsula , surrendered to the Japanese his group of 78 thousand sick and malnourished soldiers, including 67 thousand Filipinos, 1 thousand Filipinos of Chinese descent and 11 796 Americans "
        2. ratveg
          ratveg 21 July 2020 12: 01 New
          0
          And the Filipinos respected in 1942 did not really want to fight for the Americans. For them that the Americans are occupiers, that the Japanese. That is why they surrendered. In 1942-1944, the Philippines was occupied by Japan. The occupation regime was supported by nationalists who hoped that the Japanese would free the country from colonialism. However, the Japanese authorities banned all parties, creating in their place the collaborationist Society of Service to the Philippines. The occupation regime soon caused discontent among the population, and a guerrilla war broke out on the islands.
          1. Operator
            Operator 21 July 2020 12: 47 New
            -1
            So you really define yourself - either King capitulated or the Filipinos fled laughing
            1. ratveg
              ratveg 21 July 2020 14: 12 New
              0
              It is impossible to debate with you. I write the same thing from the very beginning. And you first have unverified information from Wikipedia, then some well-known information that the Philippines from the end of the American-Spanish war to 1946 was a colony of the USA. You wrote about 2.5 thousand killed Americans. You They wrote about a hundred thousand captive Americans. We have already found out that there were 25 thousand killed and 78 thousand prisoners. Of which the vast majority of Aboriginal Filipinos, who were not particularly eager to shed blood in 1942 for the Yankees. You do not believe in the Bataan March of the Dead. There is no desire to debate anymore. .Live in the fictional world. Do not quote Wikipedia, it is bad form.
              1. Operator
                Operator 21 July 2020 14: 35 New
                -2
                Learn to think for yourself: the United States has never had a single colony, only overseas - the so-called. unincorporated territories (Philippines, Puerto Rico, Guam, etc.). At the same time, for the Philippines before WWII, the plan for granting full sovereignty was successfully implemented. Those. Before the Japanese occupation, the Philippines was a completely loyal US territory of the Ukrainian SSR type (with the right to secede) within the USSR.

                What is the difference for the fact of the shameful American surrender in the Philippines, how many were killed - 2,5 thousand or 25 thousand from the 150 thousandth US contingent (versus 130 thousand Japanese contingent)? And, moreover, was there or was not a "death march" after the surrender?
                1. ratveg
                  ratveg 22 July 2020 02: 15 New
                  -1
                  You already write "what's the difference." Indeed, what's the difference. 10 times the difference, dear. The meaning of my first post is that you use unreliable sources of information, in this case, a Wikipedia page written with errors. And about the terminology, supposedly the United States does not there were colonies, yeah. smile And the Philippines, conquered during a brutal war and in which the anti-colonial movement did not subside, were "like the Ukrainian SSR." After the expulsion of the Spaniards from the Philippines in 1898, through the joint efforts of the Americans and the Filipinos, Madrid agreed to "cede" (it should be understood - to sell) the islands to the United States for 20 million dollars. But the Filipinos, who had already declared their country's independence, did not accept the treatment of themselves as real estate on the land. Then, in accordance with the adopted decision, the American troops, numbering up to 50 thousand people, began to fulfill the task of instilling in the population the need to recognize the status prepared for it.
                  Thus, the Philippines turned out to be the oldest and most literal colony of the United States. Read the dissertation of the candidate of historical sciences Yermoliev "Colonial policy of the United States in the Philippines", it is online.
  9. skobars
    skobars 19 July 2020 17: 31 New
    -3
    The Americans in Afghanistan, having lost 4 killed and several wounded from the company, screamed for help and were essentially incapable. Our 6th company, 104th regiment of the Airborne Forces, was BEATING TO THE END.
  10. Roman1970_1
    Roman1970_1 19 July 2020 17: 49 New
    -4
    the communists were not defeated, they defended their Democratic People's Republic of Korea

    Why rewrite history?
    In general, no one encroached on the DPRK.
    This is byd
    Kim Il Sung's attempt to reunite Korea under his rule
    1. volodimer
      volodimer 19 July 2020 18: 30 New
      +3
      Roman, be more literate hi , I understand, they were in a hurry.
      The author does not rewrite history. Since the US intervention and the conflict between the two Koreas, it really was about the existence of the DPRK, if the states won, then the entire Korean peninsula would be headed by Rhee Seung Man. Because the phrase "defended" has the right to be. Yes, they defended with the help of the USSR and the PRC, but they themselves fought to the last ... But the supporters of the United States, both in Korea and in Vietnam, for some reason did not differ in such persistence. They merged as soon as the owners left, and they dumped as soon as possible.
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 20 July 2020 10: 20 New
        +2
        Quote: volodimer
        They merged as soon as the owners left, and they dumped as soon as possible.

        ATS countries listen to you very carefully. And the fraternal republics, too.
  11. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 19 July 2020 18: 15 New
    +1
    A rather dangerous illusion) It is worth remembering that the USA survived the Vietnam War, in which from 40 to 60k people lost, but Afghanistan did not survive the USSR, losing about 15k.
    For them it was a conflict on the other side of the globe, for us, through the border.
    They drew conclusions from Vietnam - for the next thirty years, we did not draw conclusions from Afghanistan, which came back to haunt us just 10 years later with the same jambs.

    Everybody has failures - do not underestimate the Americans, they are hard to drop and they learn from their own and others' mistakes
    1. chenia
      chenia 19 July 2020 18: 41 New
      +5
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      but Afghanistan did not survive the USSR, having lost about 15k.


      Do you seriously think that Afghan has ruined the union? Yes it happens.
      Our General Staff in 1979 advised not to get in there, but in 1989, on the contrary, not to climb out (by that time, the losses were minimized, the Afghan army fought fairly (relatively naturally) itself. And the costs were small (only the GSVG ate more funds).
      But the processes taking place in the USSR (and this is, first of all, the destroyed national policy) and led to the collapse.
      1. Gato
        Gato 19 July 2020 20: 25 New
        +3
        Nh yes it happens

        It could be worse. Some seriously believe that the cause of the collapse of the USSR was the Chernobyl disaster, and the cause of the death of RI was the fall of the Tunguska meteorite ...
    2. Octopus
      Octopus 20 July 2020 10: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      They drew conclusions from Vietnam - for the next thirty years,

      How they did it.

      The losses of the West in the so-called. "War on Terror" - the same as in the Soviet Afghan. Nobody cares at all, not the slightest sign of an anti-war movement. But many "patriots" still like to fill in that partners lose consciousness at the sight of blood.

      Long before Syria, Wagner, all these stories, Americans commercialized small wars. They have become even more expensive, but the losses in them do not go to the expense of politicians.
  12. Pavel57
    Pavel57 19 July 2020 18: 52 New
    0
    There was still a victory in Grenada, which the Americans do not like to remember.
    1. Gato
      Gato 19 July 2020 20: 38 New
      0
      There was still a victory in Grenada

      And very long before that, there was a victory over Mexico, and then a victory over Spain, then a heroic war against Panama (for a moment, the largest airborne operation after 2MB). During the last Yankees, inhuman tortures of good Catholics from the Vatican Embassy by satanic rock music were used am
  13. poppy admiral
    poppy admiral 19 July 2020 23: 26 New
    0
    Pts. pathetic. But if we take Vietnam, then did we win in Afghanistan? I knew a mega-patriot who seriously believed that Russia and the USSR had never lost wars.
    1. Cristall
      Cristall 20 July 2020 00: 37 New
      -2
      Quote: Poppy Admiral
      I had a friend mega-patriot who seriously believed that Russia and the USSR had never lost wars.

      there are publications on the internet about this nonsense.
      A sort of cheers for patriotic noodles.
      The same goes for a peaceful nation that has expanded by 1/7 (1/6) of the earth's surface exclusively through defensive wars.
      Every nation has enough fairy tales like that.
      Once upon a time they brought up future generals and admirals with correct books about generals and naval commanders with tactics and strategies.
      Wait a banal propaganda of fairy tales.
  14. Fedorov
    Fedorov 20 July 2020 05: 19 New
    -1
    and Soviet military experts.

    One of them was Kozhedub, he was forbidden to fly, but according to the version he still shot down the Boeing.
  15. ratveg
    ratveg 20 July 2020 05: 25 New
    -1
    The Americans lost to the Indians more than once or twice, in addition to Custer. In 1790, General Hardin-183 killed, in 1791 General St. Claire-more than 800 killed and died from wounds and plus 14 guns captured by the Indians. Moreover, the Indians in that battle were less than Americans and they lost fifty people. Tecumseh broke the column of Colonel Dadley in 1813 - out of 800 Americans, less than a hundred got to their own.
    1. Cristall
      Cristall 20 July 2020 22: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: ratveg
      The Americans lost to the Indians more than once or twice, in addition to Custer

      almost every large country waged local wars during the colonization of its outskirts.
      The Russian Chukchi wars, for example, ended not in favor of the Russians, but the final result is on the scoreboard.
      So it is with the Indians.
      It's just that the Americans had Indians and in the Republic of Ingushetia were like the Chukchi and other natives. And they fought well. They even won locally ...
      1. ratveg
        ratveg 21 July 2020 08: 57 New
        0
        Here we are not discussing the Chukchi, but the Americans
  16. venaly
    venaly 20 July 2020 06: 12 New
    +1
    Better to name victories. Who is first?
  17. Petrik66
    Petrik66 20 July 2020 10: 17 New
    +1
    Vietnam, Iraq, Somalia and Afghanistan? This is not a defeat for the army, but for the politicians. You cannot win a war if they tell you that you can bomb here, but not here. Today we shoot, but not tomorrow. We did it in Afghanistan, and the First Chechen ?! What specific defeats have the American Armed Forces suffered in these countries? Losses? Well, statistics show that during the war, mortality among soldiers sharply increases. But the fact that we won the air war in Korea? Towards the end of this war, the US Air Force reported that there were no targets for bombing in the territory before the Yaluzian River. They destroyed everything: dams, bridges, factories and power plants. What haven't they bombed yet? The Chinese buried in the ground? So this is the Sun's business.
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 20 July 2020 10: 54 New
      +2
      Quote: Petrik66
      no targets for bombing. They destroyed everything: dams, bridges, factories and power plants. What haven't they bombed yet? Buried in the land of the Chinese? So this is the business of the sun.

      Yes.
      One of the lessons of Korea that the Americans refused to learn is aviation — alone — it won no war.

      Wars are won either by the infantry or by the State Department, as in Yugoslavia.
  18. Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 20 July 2020 11: 10 New
    -6
    Let them remember the Ardennes in 1945, when German tank wedges drove them to the English Channel, if it weren’t for Stalin who ordered the attack and the Soviet Army began to smash the Fritz, the Germans were forced to withdraw their troops in the Ardennes and throw them on the Eastern Front. Only three days were not enough for the Germans to drop all these troops in the English Channel. Hundreds of thousands would float across the strait. The warriors are bad.
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 20 July 2020 11: 42 New
      +6
      Quote: I.P. Stalnov.
      Ardenes in 1945,

      44-m.
      Quote: I.P. Stalnov.
      German tank wedges drove them to the English Channel,

      German tank wedges did not even reach the first intermediate line of the operation, p. Maas. Already on December 22, Mantoifel was forced to turn around, and on the 25th Patton cuts the wedge. Again, like Falaise, almost cuts, again, like Falaise, thanks to Monty, who refuses to meet halfway.

      Quote: I.P. Stalnov.
      STALIN who gave the order to attack

      Stalin postponed offensive. True, then, in Yalta, he lied that, on the contrary, he accelerated, he sold this bullshit to the Allies.

      Separately, it is nice to see how today's historians are trying to play this story on an increased ration, like Isaev. Say, the Vistula-Oder operation forced the Germans to stop their attack on Stasburg. A great achievement, of course. At Starsburg, by the way, the Americans finally slaughtered the Germans properly.
      Quote: I.P. Stalnov.
      Only three days were not enough for the Germans to drop all these troops in the English Channel. Hundreds of thousands would sail the strait.

      Yes Yes.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 20 July 2020 17: 09 New
        0
        Quote: Octopus
        German tank wedges did not even reach the first intermediate line of the operation, p. Maas. Already on December 22, Mantoifel was forced to turn around, and on the 25th Patton cuts the wedge.

        So the Germans planned a Japanese-style operation: if something cannot be solved with the available forces, then this issue is not considered. The most epic planning failure is, of course, Bastogne. "We do not have the strength to take the city outright, so we will simply block it and move the main forces around". Great plan! As a result, the Germans not only left a traffic jam in their rear on the communications of the southern flank of the wedge, but also presented the Allies with a centerboard, into which they pulled everything that was nearby. As a result, when the Germans came to their senses, in Bastogne there were two divisions and an artillery group with 155-mm guns, and the whole army was sitting in army warehouses. smile
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 20 July 2020 17: 54 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The most epic planning failure is, of course, Bastogne.

          Well, no need to offend the Germans. After the general idea - fodder the enemy will provide us with fuel - Bastogne already has small details.

          So no matter how hard Aiki and Monty tried, in the situation of December 44, even they could not scrape out the defeat.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 20 July 2020 19: 15 New
            +1
            Quote: Octopus
            Well, no need to offend the Germans. After the general idea - fodder the enemy will provide us with fuel - Bastogne already has small details.

            Uh-huh ... step on the grazing, but do not take Bastogne with its warehouses. laughing
            The gloomy Teutonic genius in all its glory.
          2. Cristall
            Cristall 20 July 2020 22: 41 New
            -1
            Quote: Octopus
            After the general idea - the enemy will provide us with fodder fuel - Bastogne is already small details.

            Well, what to do in conditions of lack of fuel for modern military operations (at that time)
            Faithfully commit crazy deeds.
            They hit the specific Middle Ages (in the offensive we’ll seize the warehouses and we will have both fuel and weapons .. purely Karl 12 before the redoubts ..)
    2. Petrik66
      Petrik66 20 July 2020 12: 41 New
      0
      All this is nonsense. Do you at least compare the dates of Churchill's letter and Patton's counterattack.
    3. Nehist
      Nehist 20 July 2020 13: 17 New
      0
      Who else would have thrown fuel at the Wehrmacht and ammunition ... Well, another week or so of non-flying weather .... Then, yes, perhaps they would have reached the English Channel ...
      1. Cristall
        Cristall 20 July 2020 22: 45 New
        0
        Quote: Nehist
        Who else would throw fuel and ammunition to the Wehrmacht.

        Alas, there were no free capacities even in the USA for such a horde.
        So this is not an option. Even hypothetically
        Quote: Nehist
        Well, another week of non-flying weather ..

        and here it’s not human efforts that are involved. And about the coincidences ..
        but the odds are 50/50 either yes or no
        Quote: Nehist
        Then yes, perhaps they would have reached the English Channel ...

        the main question would be - well, got it. Well, even threw off the entire Western Front ..
        And what to do with the East then ...
        There things have been going on for a long time no matter.
        And again, whoever would plant fuel ammunition, but would not bomb cities and factories and provide the weather ..
        Something the Germans needed a lot to draw in at least ..
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 21 July 2020 07: 27 New
          +1
          Quote: Cristall
          the main question would be - well, got it. Well, even threw off the entire Western Front ..

          Another / one is not aware of the goals of the Ardennes offensive. The Germans at the end of 44 were not themselves, but not to that extent.
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 20 July 2020 17: 01 New
      0
      Quote: I.P. Stalnov.
      if not for Stalin, who gave the order to attack

      Stalin postponed the offensive for three days at the urgent requests of the fronts - due to bad weather.
      Moreover, the Soviet units began to return to the original almost a week before Churchill's letter - strictly according to plan. It is unlikely that the General Staff planned to pickle five armies on a patch of 30x50 km for three weeks.
      Quote: I.P. Stalnov.
      the Germans were forced to withdraw troops in the Ardennes and throw them to the Eastern Front.

      What specific troops were withdrawn in the Ardennes before von Rundstedt acknowledged the failure of the operation and asked for permission to withdraw?
      Quote: I.P. Stalnov.
      Only three days were not enough for the Germans to drop all these troops in the English Channel.

      Where where? Do you even know the purpose of the "Guard on the Rhine"?
  19. Unknown
    Unknown 20 July 2020 13: 18 New
    +1
    from defeats and failures, no one is safe in war, as history teaches us. but to analyze and draw conclusions from defeat, to introduce new types of weapons and equipment of soldiers, the Americans are able to give them their due. they are not inherent in our primordially Russian shapkozakidstvo. after the high-profile victories of Russian weapons, the same high-profile defeats follow, and immediately questions, how is it, and who is to blame. after the glorious victory in the Patriotic War of 1812, the defeat in the Crimean War of 1853-56, the brilliantly conducted Balkan War of 1877-76, and the no less shameful defeat of the army and navy in the Russian-Japanese war. In WWI, the Russian army did not draw any conclusions from the previous war /, he cannot boast of victories. The Brusilov breakthrough is particular. then the GREAT OCTOBER revolution and of course the Red Army. that's what comrade said. I. V. STALIN as a result of the Finnish war .................... Question: what especially prevented our troops from adapting to the conditions of the war in Finland? It seems to me that they were especially hindered - this is the created previous campaign of psychology in the troops and command personnel - we will throw our hats. We were badly damaged by the Polish campaign, it spoiled us. Whole articles were written and speeches were spoken that our Red Army is invincible, that it has no equal, that it has everything, there are no shortages, did not exist and does not exist, that our army is invincible. In general, there have been no invincible armies in history. The best armies, both here and there, were defeated. Our comrades boasted that our army is invincible, that we can cover everyone with hats, there are no shortages. In practice, there is no such army and will not be ............. it is difficult not to agree. but did not have time to prepare for the Second World War. to be not ready for war, a purely Russian phenomenon, what kind of war you don’t take, not ready, how we win is a riddle. The author writes here about the Korean war, the Americans were soaked only in this way. It was this, but there was another. Here is what the SCO Kramarenko SM writes. an active participant in the Korean War in the air ...... pilots who ate more than one dog in air battles: modernized "sabers" appeared in Korea - with more powerful engines, the tactical skill of American pilots increased. On January 17, 1952, Sergei Kramarenko was shot down. It is reported by Rambler. Further: https://news.rambler.ru/weapon/44249740/?utm_content=news_media&utm_medium=read_more&utm_source=copylink... and if you read further, it turns out that the experience gained in Korea is not needed by the Air Force The generals of the USSR thought so. Americans need, but ours do not, and that's it. We'll throw our hats again.
  20. Dr. Frankenstucker
    Dr. Frankenstucker 20 July 2020 20: 51 New
    -1
    there was a battle for Long Island in 1776.

    Before that, in 1775, Quebec was.
  21. Operator
    Operator 21 July 2020 10: 42 New
    -2
    Quote: ratveg
    surrendered his group to the Japanese

    That was required to prove, and propaganda lamentations about "contrary to orders" (after the flight of MacArthur with his headquarters to Australia) and "emaciated and suffering from disease Americans" (with well-fed faces in all Japanese photos) leave to impressionable young ladies.
  22. smaug78
    smaug78 21 July 2020 17: 06 New
    -2
    Ignorant Polonsky again
  23. aftbreeze
    aftbreeze 22 July 2020 16: 38 New
    0
    "Due to bad weather conditions the British were forced to return to their ships." Is it like waiting out the bad weather on ships?
  24. shinobi
    shinobi 23 July 2020 05: 43 New
    0
    The US Army, for all its stuffed with iron, is pretty mediocre. This is the opinion of sane American experts. It is not iron, but a soldier who fights. And an American soldier is, as a rule, a semi-literate guy with no prospects in life who simply has nowhere else to go. Consciously we do not take. The army for him is just a way to live. There are, of course, real patriots and ideological ones, but there are quite a few of them. They are usually sent to the navy. In the bottom line, with the most powerful fleet in the world, frankly a shitty army. And here a paradoxical situation develops in the style of stupid questions, "who is stronger, a whale or an elephant?"
  25. bubasa
    bubasa 23 July 2020 16: 24 New
    0
    better write who didn't beat her;) And most importantly, tell us about victories in wars and it is desirable that you yourself laughing
  26. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 23 July 2020 16: 50 New
    0
    Quote: TerribleGMO
    Quote: chenia
    This is the internal showdown of one country.

    Internal squabbles of one country begin with asking permission from the USSR to start the war, begging for its weapons, and later a million Chinese "volunteers"?

    You do not need to seek permission from someone about the beginning of a civil war in your own country.
    The weapon was not "begging", but purchased from the USSR. By the way, they have a lot of weapons and ammunition from the Japanese left. And those few KPA divisions that fought in the civil war in China came with all their weapons.
    Never hit a million Chinese volunteers at the same time. A million Chinese may have passed through Korea from 1950 to 1953, but this is comparable to the number of Americans who have passed through Korea. The losses of the Chinese and the KPA are also quite comparable to the losses of the UN forces and the South Korean army.
    With this, the Chinese intervened in the civil war in Korea 4 months after its start, and the United States on the second day.
  27. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 23 July 2020 17: 15 New
    0
    Quote: Free Wind
    In Korea, the Americans and their allies lost to the people more than half as much as the Chinese and Sowing Koreans. The whole war, where the North Koreans began, ended on that. Moreover, the Americans were not ready for an attack by North Koreans on South Koreans, Truman was going to the dacha in general, weeding potatoes. In Vietnam, it was more about politics than defeat. 70000 US casualties, 1,5 million North Vietnamese casualties. Plus they endured a lot of experience and came to a professional army.

    1. In Korea, the United States and the allies lost approximately as much as their opponents lost with complete superiority in the air, at sea, in tanks and the use of 20 times more ammunition. The United States intervened in this war on the second day and suffered the worst defeat and longest retreat on land in all its history. To wage a war with the United States and not only remain goal-oriented, but also not lose territory for a small state, is a good achievement.
    2. The losses of the United States, their allies and the army of South Vietnam, outweigh the losses of the North. Vietnam and the partisans. Therefore, South Vietnam no longer exists on the world map. And here the USA had an absolute superiority in technology. There is no policy in their defeat - to wage a war 10 thousand kilometers from home was very expensive for the United States and the losses are very sensitive for their people. The show "Man on the Moon" also became very expensive and at the same time the USSR achieved parity in strategic weapons.
    Therefore, the United States turned Vietnam and the Moon to avoid falling behind in the arms race. No movement for peace stopped them and never could.
  28. EVDmitri
    EVDmitri 3 August 2020 19: 41 New
    0
    What major victories is the opinion about the power and high fighting qualities of the American army based on? Especially overland.
  29. Boris Kosorotov
    Boris Kosorotov 14 August 2020 21: 54 New
    +1
    The authors forgot about the tremendous embarrassment near the Ardennes. Roosevelt and Churchill had to shout to Stalin, "Help, we are beaten by a nemchura!"
  30. Mikhail Belov_2
    Mikhail Belov_2 15 August 2020 15: 31 New
    0
    https://m.vk.com/video-107913084_456244382
  31. Vladimir SHajkin
    Vladimir SHajkin 15 August 2020 21: 33 New
    +1
    Never heard of the invincibility of the American army anywhere
  32. vmo
    vmo 18 August 2020 16: 49 New
    0
    and who did they defeat in general, to be honest?
  33. Sloven
    Sloven 20 August 2020 17: 47 New
    0
    By the presence in Afghanistan.
    The goals and objectives there are clearly not those that are declared openly.
    Set up your bases to control the region. Here's the challenge. And not some kind of victory against the Taliban, etc.
    The region has a convenient position. Drug transit (financing of some secret budgets of the CIA and the Ministry of Defense, for example), work with terrorists against China and Russia, a stronghold for intelligence. Etc. etc.
    But it could be quite simple to defeat the Taliban and establish your own regime. Total bombing and mass punitive operations. Crushed with power.
  34. venaly
    venaly 21 September 2020 05: 03 New
    +1
    Better and faster to list their "valiant" victories
  35. Sergey Eliseev
    Sergey Eliseev 22 September 2020 18: 34 New
    +1
    The author forgot about the American landing in the Ardennes in 1944. Then the Wehrmacht patted them so that they, one might say tearfully and on their knees, asked Stalin to accelerate the offensive of our troops on Berlin. And the problem of the American military is that, due to their remoteness from the civilized world, they have never defended their country from an external enemy, like the same Koreans, Vietnamese or Taliban in Afghanistan. Their army is, of course, strong and armed better than other armies. However, they have little patriotism, since they serve for a lot of money.
  36. Yakovlevich
    Yakovlevich 29 September 2020 19: 27 New
    0
    There were no invincible Aryans and generals, and there never will be. Simply, any defeat is always an orphan ...
  37. EVDmitri
    EVDmitri 30 September 2020 14: 27 New
    0
    The American army is the most expensive in the world. This is yes. But between the concepts of "most expensive" and "strongest", an identity sign cannot be placed.
  38. EVDmitri
    EVDmitri 9 October 2020 18: 47 New
    0
    The loudest victories of the American army won on the screen! Thanks to the Hollywood General Staff.