Military Review

From the ruins of Berlin - to the hills of Manchuria. Preparation of the USSR for the defeat of Japan

143

The actions of the Red Army on the crushing defeat of imperial Japan in August-September 1945 are rightfully considered one of the most brilliant offensive operations carried out during the Second World War. Undoubtedly, this victory, as grand as lightning, was primarily due to the thoroughness and painstakingness of the titanic preparatory work that preceded it. We’ll talk about some aspects of this process today.


Anyone who believes that the Soviet Union got involved in a military conflict with Japan, blindly following the whims of the Allies, is very deeply mistaken. The USSR absolutely did not need the Kwantung Army and the puppet "state" Manzhou-Guo created by its command, rattling on the borders for decades weaponsmaking aggressive plans and from time to time trying to put them into practice. Yes, and to repay Tokyo for 1905, for Tsushima, Port Arthur and the death of the "Varyag" it was time a long time ago. Comrade Stalin was a real Russian patriot, and, agreeing to enter the war with the Japanese at the Tehran Conference, he pursued primarily statist goals, and did not indulge Roosevelt and Churchill, who would have had to bother with samurai without the help of the Red Army at least until the end of 1946.

However, there was a very serious snag in the form of the Neutrality Pact signed in April 1941. Well, we are not the Nazis to attack, treacherously violating such agreements. In this regard, on April 5, 1945, Moscow notified Tokyo of its unwillingness to renew the Covenant, thereby making it clear its intentions more than transparently. Following this, the Japanese made a desperate attempt to negotiate anew, promising the USSR South Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands, the Chinese Eastern Railway and almost stars from heaven. Their “generosity” in Moscow did not arouse any enthusiasm: Stalin intended to take all this himself, at the same time once and for all having discouraged the samurai from hunting to climb on our land.

Since the time when our country entered the war was agreed upon with the Allies was three months after the victory over Germany, the prospects for the transfer of troops for striking were calculated by the General Staff of the Red Army based on fairly tight deadlines. Nevertheless, there they considered it quite possible to relocate forces from two fronts from Western Europe during this time, which were to carry out an offensive together with those units and formations of the Red Army that had been concentrated all this time in the Far East, which was left without reliable military cover impossible at all.

Thus, the optimal combination of personnel was initially achieved, in which both soldiers who knew the local conditions and were familiar with them, and soldiers who went through the war with Germany and its allies, defeated the Wehrmacht and had tremendous combat experience, were in the same ranks. In total, about half a million personnel, more than 7 thousand artillery pieces, more than 2 thousand were transferred from West to East tanks and self-propelled guns.

It should be noted that all these troops were unloaded a hundred kilometers from the state border of the USSR and advanced to it in the strictest secrecy, at night, on roads safely covered by camouflage fences and nets. Considering that the distances traveled by the troops averaged 10 thousand kilometers, and the transportation itself was largely carried out on railways that were recently destroyed by the war, this relocation should perhaps be recognized as the largest and most successful military transport operation throughout the Second World War.

On the eve of the outbreak of hostilities against Japan, the total number of Soviet troops was 1,7 million, the Red Army in this direction had more than 30 thousand "barrels" of artillery and more than a thousand multiple launch rocket launchers. More than 5 thousand formidable armored vehicles were ready to pave the way for our fighters, and over 5 thousand combat aircraft provided an offensive from the air.

All this power was subordinated to the High Command of the Soviet troops in the Far East, which was headed by Marshal Alexander Vasilevsky. The forces of the Red Army were defeated on three fronts: the Trans-Baikal, under the command of Marshal Rodion Malinovsky, the 1st Far Eastern, led by Marshal Kirill Meretskov, and the 2nd Far Eastern, led by Army General Maxim Purkaev. As you can see, in the "last and decisive" battle of the soldiers of the Red Army were experienced warlords of the Great Patriotic War.

Before the arrival of reinforcements from the West, a “great construction site” was deployed in the border zone. Observing all conceivable and unthinkable precautions regarding camouflage, the Red Army prepared a colossal bridgehead for the offensive. In June-July 1945, sappers injected tirelessly, 20 days a month, and simple infantry - “only” 12. During this time, hundreds of kilometers of closed positions and many firing points were prepared, roads were built over a vast length operational troop transfer; bridges were built in the most important places. By August, the Maritime Group of Forces had three defensive lines with a depth of 70 kilometers.

Moreover, the main attention, of course, was paid to the upcoming offensive. The combat training of personnel was truly developed to unprecedented heights: training fields, bridgeheads, entire tactical towns were created in units and formations, on which soldiers and commanders worked out future actions to force water barriers, capture the fortified areas of the enemy, break through its defensive lines , actions in the mountains and woodlands. Particular attention was paid to such specific aspects as training of combatants in sapper and mine-explosive affairs, development of tactics of struggle against reconnaissance and sabotage groups of the enemy.

The lessons of World War II (both terrible 1941 and victorious 1945) were well learned and reliably learned. The Red Army was firmly determined to wage a new war, not by number, but by skill, using all its invaluable combat experience, which it got at such a high price. That is why during the 23 days of fighting, the Red Army lost 12 thousand people killed versus 84 thousand among the Japanese. That is 0,7% of the personnel involved in the operation. And this is perhaps the best confirmation that preparations for the defeat of Japan were carried out not only at a high, but at the highest level.
Author:
Photos used:
Wikipedia / Kuril landing operation. Surrender of the commander of the Japanese forces
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  1. Revolver
    Revolver 7 July 2020 06: 36
    14
    Nothing new, so, an abstract of well-known sources on a solid "C".
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 7 July 2020 07: 30
      -12 qualifying.
      Quote: Nagan
      Nothing new, so, an abstract of well-known sources on a solid "C".

      What is the "C"?

      This:
      the USSR absolutely not needed The Kwantung Army and the puppet "state" Manzhou-Go created by its command
      repay Tokyo for 1905, for Tsushima, Port Arthur and the death of the "Varyag" it was time a long time ago.


      So "no need" or ... "it's high time"? belay request
      Comrade Stalin was a real Russian patriot, and, agreeing to enter the war with the Japanese at the Tehran Conference, he pursued primarily statist goals, and did not indulge Roosevelt and Churchill

      Performed obligationsaccepted by the country. Like the allies previously performed the same before the USSR, everything and everyone on a mutually beneficial basis.

      Regarding the "Russian patriot": in the period 1924-1953, as many as ...60 thousand km2, and CUT OFF from her ... 4 MILLION km2-TODAY's borders of Russia were created.

      Especially in the 1930s, from the territory of Russia, the state-republics were baked as HOT PIES.

      It's just FACTS
      1. parma
        parma 7 July 2020 08: 20
        +2
        Quote: Olgovich
        Quote: Nagan
        Nothing new, so, an abstract of well-known sources on a solid "C".

        What is the "C"?

        This:
        the USSR absolutely not needed The Kwantung Army and the puppet "state" Manzhou-Go created by its command
        repay Tokyo for 1905, for Tsushima, Port Arthur and the death of the "Varyag" it was time a long time ago.


        So "no need" or ... "it's high time"? belay request
        Comrade Stalin was a real Russian patriot, and, agreeing to enter the war with the Japanese at the Tehran Conference, he pursued primarily statist goals, and did not indulge Roosevelt and Churchill

        Performed obligationsaccepted by the country. Like the allies previously performed the same before the USSR, everything and everyone on a mutually beneficial basis.

        Regarding the "Russian patriot": in the period 1924-1953, as many as ...60 thousand km2, and CUT OFF from her ... 4 MILLION km2-TODAY's borders of Russia were created.

        Especially in the 1930s, from the territory of Russia, the state-republics were baked as HOT PIES.

        It's just FACTS

        With the fact that he performed the duty to the Allies and the agreement I agree to 146% ...
        I can’t name the operation of transferring troops an analogue in the world, but it’s unique for our country for sure .. the statement about the power of the Kwantung Army is also controversial, no stronger than the Wehrmacht of 1945 in terms of personnel and far inferior in equipment ...
        But with regard to the affiliations and branches of the territory, it’s easy to be smart after more than half a century, at that time no one planned to separate the republics and territories were transferred between the entities (as Moscow is expanding now) purely for practical purposes .. it was more convenient to conduct development, budgets were the republics have their own, like the oblasts now ... but whoever profiled there in the 80-90s does not concern the leadership of the 30-70s, because it was after them
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 7 July 2020 09: 49
          -10 qualifying.
          Quote: parma
          I can’t name the operation of transferring troops an analogue in the world, but it’s unique for our country for sure .. the statement about the power of the Kwantung Army is also controversial, no stronger than the Wehrmacht of 1945 in terms of personnel and far inferior in equipment ...

          I agree.
          Quote: parma
          But regarding the accessions and branches of the territory - easy to be smart after more than half a century, at that time no one had planned the separation of the republics and territories were transferred between the entities (as Moscow is expanding now) purely for practical purposes .. it was more convenient to conduct development, the republics had their own budgets, like the regions now ... but whoever there profiled in the 80-90s the leadership of the 30-70s does not concern, because it was after them

          Do you really need to have a great mind to KNOW about the always existing danger of subjects leaving the union when creating .... sovereign STATES with ... THE RIGHT to exit it?
          Quote: parma
          at that time no one planned separation of republics and territories were transferred between the entities (as Moscow is expanding now) purely for practical purposes .. it was more convenient to conduct development, the republics had their own budgets, like the regionth now

          You contradict yourself: why are the REGIONS of Russia (and not the republic) then - could not do the housework as they do now?
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 7 July 2020 11: 11
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich
            You contradict yourself: why then the REGIONS of Russia (and not the republic) then - could not do the business as they do now?

            Khrushchev had already conducted such an experience over the country, in his time economic councils were created. I hope you remember what this led to. And today's "independence" of the regions is even more dangerous, under the current bourgeois power it already leads to the collapse of Russia
          2. parma
            parma 7 July 2020 11: 34
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            Quote: parma
            I can’t name the operation of transferring troops an analogue in the world, but it’s unique for our country for sure .. the statement about the power of the Kwantung Army is also controversial, no stronger than the Wehrmacht of 1945 in terms of personnel and far inferior in equipment ...

            I agree.
            Quote: parma
            But regarding the accessions and branches of the territory - easy to be smart after more than half a century, at that time no one had planned the separation of the republics and territories were transferred between the entities (as Moscow is expanding now) purely for practical purposes .. it was more convenient to conduct development, the republics had their own budgets, like the regions now ... but whoever there profiled in the 80-90s the leadership of the 30-70s does not concern, because it was after them

            Do you really need to have a great mind to KNOW about the always existing danger of subjects leaving the union when creating .... sovereign STATES with ... THE RIGHT to exit it?
            Quote: parma
            at that time no one planned separation of republics and territories were transferred between the entities (as Moscow is expanding now) purely for practical purposes .. it was more convenient to conduct development, the republics had their own budgets, like the regionth now

            You contradict yourself: why are the REGIONS of Russia (and not the republic) then - could not do the housework as they do now?

            There are problems with this now, with joint farming ... for example, you need to provide water to a region from a source in a neighboring one (an example from the life of Crimea), how to finance it? Can you imagine a bunch of papers that need to be drawn up? 80% of the water through the new channel goes to the Crimea, respectively, such a huge object of the Ukrainian SSR is not needed, which means they will not allocate funding ... The RSFSR, in turn, does not have land for the object and also cannot build .. how can it be? It is necessary to transfer land, but how to operate the facility, then how to divide the costs of maintenance, whose personnel? Or do you propose, not God, to enter into an agreement between the republics of the Marxist capitalist treaty? Accordingly, it is easier for the water supply facility and consumers to be in the same entity, which was done ...
            regarding the right to exit - when the UN was created, Ukraine and Belarus were its members, since the USSR needed votes ... and I say again, no one knew and did not expect the collapse of the union when it was created! Internal divisions and statuses pecked on the knee for immediate need ...
            For: another example - what kind of mind must be possessed in order not to realize the danger of human death? In other words, our parents did not realize that we would die sooner or later when they decided to have children?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 7 July 2020 12: 04
              -3
              Quote: parma
              Land must be transferredbut how to operate the facility, how then to share the maintenance costs, whose personnel?

              Yeah, but in the Ukraine of the regions ..... "no"! lol

              And nothing, somehow sharing costs, content, consumers, funds
              Quote: parma
              Or do you propose, not God, to enter into an agreement between the republics of the Marxist capitalist treaty? Accordingly, it is easier for the water supply facility and consumers to be in the same entity, which was done ...

              Of course, easier when they are in one subject-in Russiawhere areas (formerly provinces) and operate in the same legal field.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 7 July 2020 14: 45
              +4
              Quote: parma
              80% of the water through the new channel goes to the Crimea, respectively, such a huge object of the Ukrainian SSR is not needed, which means they will not allocate funding ...

              And as soon as they built a spaceport in Kazakhstan - which the republic did not need? smile
              Quote: parma
              It is necessary to transfer land, but how to operate the facility, then how to divide the costs of maintenance, whose personnel?

              And how was it on the railways ?. There were trains from the RSFSR to the RSFSR through Ukraine.
              And I still do not remember about the electric power industry with its perpetual flows across the borders of the republics and the connection of consumers of some republics to generating capacities in other republics.
      2. Fitter65
        Fitter65 7 July 2020 12: 42
        +4
        Quote: Olgovich
        Regarding the "Russian patriot": in the period 1924-1953 Russia was joined as much ... 60 thousand km2, and CUT OFF from it ... 4 MILLION km2 - TODAY'S borders of Russia were created.

        So, in fact, what remained under the authority of the Provisional Government by the same October 1917? Poland with the Baltic states, as well as a part of the future Ukraine under the German, Finland is in fact already independent. The Rada is already sitting in Kiev, which demands from the Provisional Government a part of the Baltic Fleet, the Caucasus and Transcaucasia are also beginning to "self-determine ..."
        Quote: Olgovich
        Especially in the 1930s, from the territory of Russia, the state-republics were baked as HOT PIES.

        Yes, if the Bolsheviks had not made these states-republics "offers", which cannot be refused, then at the end of 1920, the territory of future Russia would have been much smaller than it is now. And all thanks to the mediocre rule of one of the Romanov dynasty.
        Quote: Olgovich
        It's just a fact.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 7 July 2020 13: 27
          -5
          Quote: Fitter65
          So in fact

          In fact, 1917 million km1940 were cut from RUSSIA from 5 to 2, incl. after4 million km2
          Quote: Fitter65
          Yes, if the Bolsheviks had not made these states-republics "offers", which cannot be refused, then at the end of 1920, the territory of future Russia would have been much smaller than it is now.

          Yours would cost less than ZERO ::
          1. before the Bolsheviks there were no "republics"

          2. NOBODY before the Bolsheviks did not declare withdrawal from Russia. ALL independence declared after the thief and on the basis of its stupid declarations of self-determination.

          3. Tell us how Novorossia (Odessa, Nikolaev, Izmail, Yekaterinoslav, Elizavetgrad, Melitopol, Tiraspol, etc.), Uralsk, Verny, Vitebsk, Mogilev, etc., and others "were torn" from Russia fool fool lol

          You even skipped the Soviet school.
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 7 July 2020 14: 52
            +2
            Quote: Olgovich
            2. NOBODY before the Bolsheviks did not declare withdrawal from Russia. ALL independence declared after the thief and on the basis of its stupid declarations of self-determination.

            Do not put the cart in front of the horse. In the national suburbs, there was double oppression of the local and great-power elite. In non-Russian peoples, thoughts of national freedom ripened, and as soon as the February Revolution took place, they all declared their independence. The Bolsheviks acted wisely, they confirmed this and thereby attracted everyone on an equal footing into a single state, because a large state is easier to survive.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 7 July 2020 15: 03
              -4
              Quote: Alexander Green
              the February revolution happened, they all declared their independence.

              liar and ignoramus: NOBODY announced about leaving Russia.
              ALL independence declared only AFTER THE THIEF
              Quote: Alexander Green
              . The Bolsheviks acted wisely, they confirmed this and thereby attracted everyone on an equal footing into a single state

              And where are these "mudarets" and how many historical moments were their "single" state? lol
              1. Fitter65
                Fitter65 7 July 2020 17: 13
                +7
                Quote: Olgovich
                where are these "mudarets" and how many historical moments were their "single" state

                From historical moments yes MIG, but it was done for the development of the country more than in the previous century. If it weren’t for the Bolsheviks, they would still be picking the ground with wooden plow. And telling which Russia is powerful, the truth is that even steel spokes for wheels abroad bought so this is nonsense. That is, what the Bolsheviks are proud of, in contrast to the Tsar-Ampirators. Well, yes, there is something the kings are proud of, in fact it turns out that slavery was abolished in 1861, and two years later in the USA! Only in the USA, by the beginning of World War I, was there already an economic potential incomparable with tsarist Russia, by then tsars like the Romanovs ruled for 1 years. When in the same Great Britain in Germany almost every citizen could read / write, know the score, in Russia if he could read by syllables, he was already literate. 300 out of a hundred, such an intellectually developed country is normal ...
                1. fuxila
                  fuxila 7 July 2020 18: 16
                  -4
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  If it weren’t for the Bolsheviks, they would still be picking the ground with wooden plow. And telling which Russia is powerful, the truth is that even steel spokes for wheels abroad bought so this is nonsense. That is, what the Bolsheviks are proud of, in contrast to the Tsar-Ampirators. Well, yes, there is something the kings are proud of, in fact it turns out that slavery was abolished in 1861, and two years later in the USA! Only in the USA, by the beginning of World War I, was there already an economic potential incomparable with tsarist Russia, by then tsars like the Romanovs ruled for 1 years. When in the same Great Britain in Germany almost every citizen could read / write, know the score, then in Russia if he could read by syllables, he was already literate. 300 out of a hundred, such an intellectually developed country is normal ...

                  The dumb and worthless Russian people were able to get out of the abyss only help from the international pack of Bolsheviks ...
                  You also forgot to add that we owe modern Internet and cellular communications only thanks to the communists Yeltsin, Chubais, Gaidar and others. If it were not for them, we (Russian ungrateful pigs) would still be calling each other on a wire connection "Hello, young lady" ...
                  1. Fitter65
                    Fitter65 8 July 2020 12: 19
                    +1
                    Quote: fuxila
                    Dumb and worthless Russian people

                    So it turns out that this is the case, then first we call the "Vyaryags" to rule, then we call all Dutch-German-Englishmen to help our state to equip, and then only German roots stick out from the very dynasty of tsars like the Romanovs. If at 18-19 the ruling elite did not even know Russian but spoke French. And as the people are tired of these parasites, so let's insult these people and tell them that the people went in a criminal way ...
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 7 July 2020 20: 47
                  -7
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  but was done for the development of the country more than in the previous century

                  Yeah, brought to extinction, the millennial people and the country, to the borders of the 17th century.

                  NOBODY and NEVER did this with her before!

                  These are the FACTS
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  If it weren’t for the Bolsheviks, they would still be picking the ground with wooden plow.

                  Russia- 4-5 world economy and grew faster than leaders.

                  But even so: look, HOW the 4-5 world economy lives today (these are Germany, Japan).
                  Got it? No.
                  1. Fitter65
                    Fitter65 8 July 2020 00: 52
                    +4
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Russia is a 4-5 world economy and grew faster than leaders.

                    RenTV look a little less ... Then you will know for sure the 4th or 5th economy of the world, where in ten years the number of cars of all types has been released as much as the Renault factory in 1913. We are proud that our first multi-engine took off the plane, which only fought in Germany on two fronts, during the war years, these multi-motor vehicles were many times more produced. Yes, the Russian Empire seems to have produced a number of single-engine aircraft of various types, but alas, they could take off on French and English engines, the supply of which was not regular ...
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Yeah, brought to extinction, the millennial people and the country, to the borders of the 17th century.

                    Well, at the expense of extinction, this is for the current government, and who is this thousand-year-old people? Brought to the borders of the 17th century, again the beginning of the 17th or the end of the 17th century? It turns out if the British, there are French and Belgians with different Dutch, expanded their countries at the expense of others, not even neighbors, then this is bad. But if the Russian tsars seized neighboring territories was it a blessing? It means that if the French and other Europeans forced local residents to work on plantations, this is bad, the Russians imposing tribute on the local population, they simply forced huge quantities of fur to be harvested, which caused irreparable damage to the environment, this is only for the good ... Have you ever wondered why this is? Maybe not out of grief, but with joy, as soon as the hand of the autocracy weakened and the people rushed from this "beautiful country". Maybe that's why this patchwork quilt has crawled in pieces. that the threads rotted long ago, and the Bolsheviks only extended this moment of creeping for another 70 years, trying in various ways to restore what collapsed in February 1917.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 8 July 2020 05: 27
                      -6
                      Quote: Fitter65
                      Then you will know for sure the 4th or still the 5th economy of the world

                      I definitely know.
                      Quote: Fitter65
                      where in ten years the number of cars of all types was produced as much as the Renault factory in 1913. We are proud that our first multi-engine plane took off, only in Germany it fought on two fronts, during the war years there were many more of these multi-motors. Yes, the Russian Empire seems to have produced a number of single-engine aircraft of various types, only alas they could take off on French and English engines, the deliveries of which were not regular ...

                      Caught up very quickly: Russia - the FIRST in the world built a diesel electric ship (70% of the world's ships are Russian), a diesel submarine on Russian diesels, created the Russian diesel, the leader of naval aviation, the second aircraft carrier fleet of the world (USSR is ridiculous), etc.
                      Quote: Fitter65
                      Well, at the expense of extinction, this is to the current government, and who is the millennial people?

                      Russian people, ignoramus-RUSSIAN Cross-You built
                      Quote: Fitter65
                      Brought to the borders of the 17th century, again the beginning of the 17th or end of the 17th century?

                      Go to school
                      Quote: Fitter65
                      But if the Russian tsars seized neighboring territories, then it was a blessing?

                      Tell us about the seizures of "neighboring territories" (Novorossiya, for example) and to whom and what you are going to return. You have already returned Odessa, Uralsk and Nikolaev to the "owners" fool
                      Quote: Fitter65
                      this is bad, Russians paying tribute to the local population, simply forced in large quantities to get furs than applied irreparable damage to the environment- it’s only for the good.

                      belay fool lol
                      So you just lol
                      Quote: Fitter65
                      Have you ever wondered why?

                      I am not an idiot to think of such Nonsense.
                      Quote: Fitter65
                      people rushed from this "beautiful country"

                      Yes, from the USSR they rushed like hell from incense
                      Quote: Fitter65
                      Maybe it crawled because this patchwork piece by piece. that the threads rotted long ago

                      This is exactly what happened with the USSR because of the rotten threads with which it was sewn by the Bolsheviks.
                      Quote: Fitter65
                      trying in various ways to restore what collapsed in February 1917.

                      Hack on the forehead ONCE AGAIN the facts: ALL INDEPENDENCE is declared only AFTER the THIEF and on the basis of its Dumb decrees.

                      You are illiterate.
                      1. Fitter65
                        Fitter65 8 July 2020 12: 36
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Caught up very quickly: Russia - the FIRST in the world built a diesel electric ship (70% of the world's ships are Russian), a diesel submarine on Russian diesels, created the Russian diesel, the leader of naval aviation, the second aircraft carrier fleet of the world (USSR is ridiculous), etc.

                        Well, well, who’s provided the world with 70% Russian ships, what kind of plant? About aircraft carriers of the Russian Empire can be more detailed? The leader of naval aviation, well, they created a successful flying boat M-5, built 300 pieces, most of which under Soviet power, what’s next from the serial M-9 and M-11? So again, the main years of construction are the first years of Soviet power. Again past the basin.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I am not an idiot to think of such Nonsense.

                        But when I read your comments, the feeling comes that if Dostoevsky Fedor Mikhailovich wrote in our time, he would call his novel your name. Evidence? This phrase the second aircraft carrier fleet of the world!!! So it's you
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You are illiterate.
                      2. Fitter65
                        Fitter65 8 July 2020 13: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Russia - The FIRST in the world built a diesel electric ship (70% of the world's ships are Russian), a diesel submarine on Russian diesels

                        About how the whole world, or rather 70% of the whole world, was equipped
                        diesel-electric ships, I mentioned above. He also said what "Russian Diesel" was like. About the submarine fleet of the Russian Empire Russia started the war with 58 submarines in operation or under construction. The base of the submarine fleet was 24 Bars-type boats. During the war, 58 out of 24 boats were killed. hi
                        And what is Germany fighting on two fronts?At the beginning of the war, Germany had 48 submarines in operation or under construction, of which 29 were underway ... 360 submarines were built during the war, but 178 of them were lost, and all the rest were given to the Allies at the end of the war . Germany only lost almost 3 (THREE, Karl, THREE) times more than it was able to produce 4 roofing felts, 5 roofing felts economy of the world ...
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 8 July 2020 15: 16
                        -6
                        Quote: Fitter65
                        Well, well, who’s provided the world with 70% Russian ships, what kind of plant?

                        You do not understand Russian at all? fool
                        ONCE AGAIN: 70% of the ships in the world are Russian, which does not mean that they were in the West either.
                        Got it, no?
                        Quote: Fitter65
                        About aircraft carriers of the Russian Empire can be more detailed?

                        Is there anything for the ignoramuses? belay

                        "By herself, by herself! (C). yes

                        And yes, the world's first AUG is also RUSSIAN!
                        Quote: Fitter65
                        The leader of naval aviation, well, they created a successful flying boat M-5, built 300 pieces, with the bulk being under Soviet rule

                        What, in, "conscience power", ignorant? fool lol
                        Quote: Fitter65
                        But when I read your comments, the feeling comes that if Dostoevsky Fedor Mikhailovich wrote in our time, he would call his novel your name. Evidence? This phrase is the second aircraft carrier fleet of the world !!! So it's you

                        It's not an educational program, an ignoramus, but I'm not your nanny.
                        Quote: Fitter65
                        Empire- Russia launched a war with 58 submarines in operation or under construction. The base of the submarine fleet was 24 Bars-type boats. During the war, 58 out of 24 boats were killed.
                        And what is Germany fighting on two fronts? At the beginning of the war, Germany had 48 submarines in operation or under construction

                        belay fool lol

                        And about the Russian diesel engine, you also have no understanding.

                        As well as about THOUSANDS of advanced steamboats produced in Russia (the largest river fleet), steam locomotives, etc.

                        These are all high-tech products with their engines, equipment, etc.
                      4. Fitter65
                        Fitter65 8 July 2020 18: 36
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        ONCE AGAIN: 70% of the ships in the world are Russian, which does not mean that they were in the West either.

                        You are more and more reminiscent of BR-471B. So, for the sake of fun, 5 motor ships built by the Votkinsk plant brought loss to the plant, 220000 rubles in 1911 prices, all in all, about 400 different ships were built by the Votkinsk plant at the beginning of the century, ships not self-propelled barges, ram boats, and motor ships. But back to these 5 unprofitable ships, five twin-screw freight ships with the machine of the Swedish Locke factory- where is the Russian diesel?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        THOUSANDS of advanced steamships produced in Russia (the largest river fleet), steam locomotives, etc.

                        Advanced you say? With the machines of the Swedish plant Locke, well, how much did Tsarist Russia sell abroad of its advanced river ships? Well, or advanced steam locomotives? well, let's say the carriage of the series O (Main), of various modifications, from 1893 to 1917, about 9000 were built. Well, in general, with other types, together with foreign ones, about 22. Of course, if we take for comparison the works of one "researcher" who writes- " ... exactly how many steam locomotives were produced in the USSR, before 000, I do not know for sure, but about 1941-13000 rubbish ... "- then of course ...
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 9 July 2020 09: 12
                        -1
                        Quote: Fitter65
                        You are increasingly reminiscent of the BR-471B. So, for the sake of fun, 5 motor ships built by the Votkinsk plant brought loss to the plant, 220000 rubles in 1911 prices, all in all, about 400 different ships were built by the Votkinsk plant at the beginning of the century, ships not self-propelled barges, ram boats, and motor ships. But let us return to these 5 unprofitable motor ships, five twin-screw freight motor ships with the machine of the Swedish Locke factory where is there a russian diesel?

                        In e yes
                        Here I’m NOT LIKBEZ, I say again and I’m not going to engage in your primary education.

                        Diesel oil was taught to work by Russian engineers, they also installed Russian diesel engines on ships, submarines, enterprises and power plants

                        In 1900, at the World Exhibition in Paris, the diesel engine received the Grand Prix, which was facilitated by the news that the Nobel plant in St. Petersburg had launched production of engines operating on crude oil. This engine is called in Europe "Russian diesel"

                        You are given facts, undeniable, and you read yourself
                        Quote: Fitter65
                        Advanced talking? With the machines of the Swedish Locke factory,

                        Russian steamboats with RUSSIAN steam engines, Russian electric and navigation equipment, etc.

                        Did you get it, Russophobe?

                        About the carrier carrier fleet of Russia, the best in the world, bombed as part of the AUG, Istanbul, Trebizond, Bosphorus, Varna, etc.-I already got it, I see yes .
                        Quote: Fitter65
                        Well, or advanced steam locomotives?


                        On, Russophobe and ignoramus:.
                        In 1869, construction of steam locomotives began at the Kolomenskoye and Kamsko-Votkinsk factories; in 1870 - at the Nevsky and Maltsevsky plants; in 1892-1900 - in Bryansk, Putilovsky, Sormovsky, Kharkov and Lugansk.

                        Domestic engine building had your own development path. Russian steam locomotive school formed. Prominent Russian engineers and designers A.P. Borodin, E.E. Noltein, V.I. Lopushinsky and others created a number of new types of steam locomotives and introduced many improvements to them.

                        In 1878, the Kolomensky Zavod was built the world's first passenger locomotives with front trolley, which contributed to improving the safety of train traffic. Abroad, such locomotives appeared only in 1892. Steam locomotives with four moving axles, which appeared in Russia in the 60s of the XIX century,

                        In 1891 was For the first time in the world of steam locomotive construction, a steam locomotive with steam condensation was built.

                        There was a tank engine type 44

                        At the end of the XIX century Russian engineers were the first in the world to use superheaters. In the same period, the first to use double steam expansion on steam locomotives. The principle of unification and interchangeability of parts and assemblies in steam locomotives was substantiated and used.. The construction of articulated steam locomotives was organized - long before their appearance in America.

                        At the end of the XNUMXth century, the foundations of the doctrine of train traction were laid, which was turned into a science by Russian scientiststhat allows you to accurately calculate the mass of the train, speed and time of its movement, determine braking distances depending on the track profile and the provision of the train with braking means and solve many problems associated with the use of power and traction characteristics of locomotives.

                        К At the beginning of the XNUMXth century, Russia was completely freed from foreign dependence in the field of steam locomotive construction. By this time, many remarkable constructive forms of Russian steam locomotives had been created, the further development of which led to the most advanced examples of steam locomotive building.

                        Only from 1898 to 1917, Russian plants were built 16064 steam locomotive
                        "HISTORY OF THE RUSSIAN STEAM LOCOMOTIVE"

                        Could build TWO TIMES more, there were no orders.

                        Love your Motherland and its History!
                      6. Fitter65
                        Fitter65 9 July 2020 12: 08
                        -2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        In 1900, at the World Exhibition in Paris, the diesel engine received the Grand Prix, which was facilitated by the news that the Nobel plant in St. Petersburg had launched production of engines operating on crude oil. This engine is called in Europe "Russian diesel"

                        Only you forgot to add that the diesel engines were built under license, and partially equipped with foreign parts, this is from the Indian T-90 or Chinese Su-27 series.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        About the carrier aircraft fleet of Russia, the best in the world, bombing in the composition of the AUG, Istanbul, Trebizond, the Bosphorus, Varna, etc., have already reached, I see
                        Ignoramus, do not confuse vegetable garden and tram handle. An aircraft carrier and an air transport ship delivering aircraft from one point to another are two different things. What you recently learned about these events is already pleasing, I knew about it back in the 70s of the last century.March 27 - 31, 1915. The campaign of the Black Sea Fleet consisting of ... air transport "Nikolay I" ... Seaplanes from the air transport "Nikolay I" conducted reconnaissance, bombarded the Elmas battery, barracks and other objects ... After the detachment joined the fleet, one of a seaplane was discovered in the depths of the strait by the Turkish fleet, heading for the exit from the Bosphorus as part of the Geben, cruisers and destroyers.
                        Until the evening, the Black Sea Fleet maneuvered in front of the strait, causing the enemy to fight, but the enemy forces remained on the shore, protected by minefields. After that, on March 30, at dawn, the fleet went to Eregli to stop the continued export of coal from the Zunguldak-Eregli region; destroyers were sent to the bay, fired at the port and destroyed 11 coal-loaded barges, three cranes and coal loading facilities
                        .
                        February 6, 1916. Russian naval aviation raid on Zunguldak. On February 5, a maneuver group consisting of the battleship Empress Maria, the cruiser Cahul and 2 coal destroyers together with the air transport Alexander I and Nikolai I left for the air raid on Zunguldak, its harbor, the ships there and coal facilities. Fifteen miles from Zunguldak, airplanes lowered planes, which headed for the mission. The operation was attended by 15 aircraft. Dense low cumulus clouds covered Zunguldak from above. Only three pilots saw the fall of their bombs.
                        One bomb hit the steaming ship Irmingard, which sank. During this operation, the German submarine UB-7 unsuccessfully attacked the air transport Alexander I
                        Yes, this is no big deal, especially for plywood shelves, but it cannot be compared with the actions of only two German ships "Goeben" and "Breslau" against the Chenomorsky fleet, which at least somehow fought with.
                        What you call the AUG, what to take with the BR-471B, is the ordinary operation of the Black Sea Fleet, which included various auxiliary ships, including airports. Do not make laugh with your stupid hypertrophied love for everything old-fashioned. And that’s how you will soon begin to tell how we in Great Britain built the first railways ...
                      7. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 9 July 2020 13: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: Fitter65
                        Only you forgot to add that the diesel engines were built under license, and partially equipped with foreign parts, this is from the Indian T-90 or Chinese Su-27 series.

                        It didn’t reach again: OIL taught us how to operate a diesel engine at OIL, and this made it the diesel engine that we know today: the outstanding Russian engineer Arshaulov first time in the world He built and introduced a high-pressure fuel pump of an original design - driven by compressed air in a cylinder, working with a non-compressor nozzle.
                        Got it, no?
                        Quote: Fitter65
                        do not confuse garden vegetables and tram handles. An aircraft carrier and an air transport ship delivering aircraft from one point to another are two different things.

                        Ignorant, BOTH carry AVIATION to the point of APPLICATION, therefore, aircraft carriers-doshdo, not?

                        And the AUG of Russia attacked not only Zanguldak (although there was the WORLD'S FIRST operation to strike naval aircraft from aircraft carriers on a closed harbor), but also ISTANBUL, BOSPHORUS, TRESUND, VARNA and OL.
                        Yours couldn’t and never repeat NEVER, destroying the invaluable that was.

                        How they could not, how they did not puff up to build ANY battleship, how they could not build a bridge longer than the Alekseevsky bridge and the Trans-Siberian road. Etc.

                        Hack it on the forehead, Russophobe.

                      8. Fitter65
                        Fitter65 9 July 2020 15: 12
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Hack it on the forehead, Russophobe.

                        "Rusolyub" you are already ridiculous at the level of ukroshumers with your tales about the superiority of the "Russian race". Diesel, the history of its creation, the principle of operation, I began to study back in 1979. Moreover, it was oil diesel that was operated in our forestry at the 1978th site to generate electricity even before 5. And when you here "beat your ears on the cheeks" telling that only in the Russian Empire were submarines with Diesels, I begin to doubt your ability to think logically. The Russian Empire produced 58 submarines with advanced diesel engines. Loud, prolonged (1,5 seconds) applause. What engines did 360 German submarines use then? 2 minutes in the KU pose. By the way, in terms of power removal, fuel efficiency, and the quality of workmanship, I am silent, German engines surpassed everything that was produced in the days of tsars, such as the Romanovs. But you didn't even hint about the real gem in the family of diesel engines, although how do you know about this, after all, for you the history of Russia ended in 1917 (before order number 1 or still after the October coup / revolution). You forgot to mention the V-2, a real masterpiece of engine building. The descendants of which work and are still produced. This is a masterpiece ... Okay, honestly I'm already tired of explaining to those who are still trying to chew a moldy French bun with slobbering, toothless gums that Russia is different, somewhere advanced, somewhere backward. In the 1960s, we produced cars that won prizes at the International Brussels Exhibition, which won prizes in various rally-raids, which we gladly bought in Europe, our Volga GAZ-21 was one of the first production cars with automatic transmission ... Our "Niva" still has no analogues in the world (the current protest actions in Germany against the prohibitions on the sale of the Niva speak about something?) But thanks to the mediocre leadership (starting with the dynasty of the Romnov type), all this is lost. But as they say (Americans I disliked - I perceived them for 32 years and I perceive them as a potential enemy) RIGHT IT OR NOT RIGHT, BUT THIS IS MY FATHERLAND . Therefore, I perceive my country and the history of my country with its victories and defeats, ups and downs as a simple citizen of this country. And I don’t knock, unlike you, with your heel in the chest how I love tsarist Russia and do not hate the Bolsheviks (you) or vice versa (my neighbor) remove the blinkers and look carefully at how much. So that hi
                      9. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 9 July 2020 21: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Fitter65
                        And I do not knock, unlike you, with your heel in the chest, as I love Tsarist Russia and do not hate the Bolsheviks (you) or conversely

                        this is exactly what you are doing: for you, Russia, before the Thief, no, this is an unorganized, dumb, uneducated, dark territory and people.

                        And this was a country whose regimes your regime never reached many standards of life NEVER, and some only forty years later, but it ruined the hard work of the Russian people to build a State for HUNDREDS (your borders of the 17th century) and led to its extinction.
                        But even in this mode, and despite this, this glorious people built, won and created (clever!) and survived it!

                        Learn and love the History of your Fatherland and its people yes !
            2. Fitter65
              Fitter65 9 July 2020 00: 43
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              And yes, the world's first AUG is also RUSSIAN!

              For the BR-471B projectile, you would first figure out the concept of an aircraft carrier and an aircraft carrier, which is the Orlitsa hydrotransport with 5 (five) seaplanes in the Baltic and a pair of converted steamers in the Black Sea. So you don't have to pull the owl over the globe. The same British also had several ferries and barges converted in a similar way, and in the second half of WWI, the British used towed "single-aircraft aircraft carriers" with which they intercepted German airships. Well, in 1916 a full-fledged aircraft carrier appeared in the UK. In your attempt to prove that tsarist Russia was ahead of the rest of the world, you are increasingly beginning to resemble "ukroshumer". Commercials for you soon the first plane to take off will be Mozhaisky's apparatus, although there are already "experts" who say that he really was able to get off the ground. Well, returning to your Russian AUG, their small number does not detract from the merits of naval aviators, but they acted almost at their own peril and risk. On the other hand, after all, something had to be done, especially considering that Nicholas # 2 forbade battleships to leave their bases, he was very afraid that Tsushima # 2 would work out ... And once again
              Quote: Olgovich
              As well as about THOUSANDS of advanced steamboats produced in Russia (the largest river fleet), steam locomotives, etc. These are all high-tech products with their own engines, equipment, etc.
              Again, you confuse heavy engineering with high technology. The locomotives did it, but the instruments and bearings for them were brought from abroad. When the countries of Europe built ocean-going turbo-boats, you are touched by river motor ships ... At the expense of high technologies, how many TLF and TLG devices were produced in RI from our own and not imported parts) and how many were transported from behind the hillock?
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 8 July 2020 05: 54
    +4
    Quote: Olgovich
    liar and ignoramus: NOBODY announced about leaving Russia.

    Half-sick, half-ignorant. read when the Ukrainian and Belarusian Rada were organized, when the Lithuanian bourgeois republic proclaimed itself,
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 8 July 2020 06: 46
      -8
      Quote: Alexander Green
      Half-sick, semi-ignorant. read when the Ukrainian and Belarusian Rada were organized, when the Lithuanian bourgeois republic proclaimed itself,

      In u your clownish glad yes ,: WHERE are the declared INDEPENDENCES before the THIEF?
      At their table, ignorance! angry lol
      Quote: Alexander Green
      when the Lithuanian bourgeois republic proclaimed itself,

      Oh, how do you love GERMAN OCCUPIERS and THEIR CREATION (lit rep), loving occupiers

      By the way, again, so- AFTER THE THIEF-in DECEMBER 1917 it was announced.
      Shame ....
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 8 July 2020 12: 56
        +2
        [quote = Olgovich] WHERE are the declared INDEPENDENCE before the THIEF? [/ quote]
        quote = Olgovich] By the way, again, after AFTER the THIEF, in DECEMBER 1917 it was announced.
        Shame .... [/ quote]

        Dear, do not "la-la .."

        1. The Ukrainian Council was founded in March 1917, the Belarusian Council in July 1917, they sought autonomy under the Provisional Government.

        2. The bourgeois Lithuanian Sejm generally proclaimed the formation of an "independent state", back in June 1917 moreover, the meeting was held in Petrograd. By this time, Lithuania had not yet been fully occupied.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 8 July 2020 14: 47
          -6
          Quote: Alexander Green
          1. The Ukrainian Council was founded in March 1917, the Belarusian Council in July 1917, they sought autonomy under the Provisional Government.

          In your clowns lol who had neither power nor strength, ANYTHING, except chatter (everything, as at you).
          Particularly ridiculed with ... the Belarusian Rada-bunch of frank marginal jesters with whom no one even spoke
          Quote: Alexander Green
          June 1917, moreover, the meeting was held in Petrograd. By this time, Lithuania had not yet been fully occupied.

          Ignorant, hack on the forehead:

          1. no "Lithuania" for June 1917 and Did NOT stink!

          2. ALL territory of future Lithuania was occupied yet in 1915 g

          3 .. Lithuania was proclaimed in December 1917 AFTER THE THIEF with yours, lover and singer of the German occupiers, the masters there.

          4. LITHUANIA and LATVIA are DIFFERENT countries, which you .... do not know at point blank range. lol

          By the way, in this regard, how to: Iran or ... Iraq? lol laughing

          PS and these ... people .... "teach" us ... request lol
          No wonder they scammed ALL
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 8 July 2020 16: 30
            +2
            Quote: Olgovich
            Ignorant, hack on the forehead:

            Sick, you need to heal, you feel that you are not adequate, what does Latvia have to do with it, or, as you write, with a strange accent "latvia"? I didn't even think about her.
            And what about Lithuania, too, can be seen not in the topic, read in the encyclopedia "Civil War and Military Intervention in the USSR" (1983) on page 333.,
            what .... quote : “Back in June 1917 (in Petrograd), the bourgeois Lithuanian Sejm proclaimed the formation of an“ independent state. ”In September 1917, in Leningrad, (the territory has been since the fall of 1915 almost completely captured... and hereinafter. Pay attention to the keyword "NEARLY"
          2. fuxila
            fuxila 8 July 2020 18: 17
            0
            The territory of Lithuania was captured by the Germans in 1915 after the Gorlitsky breakthrough and the subsequent Great Retreat. By the autumn of 1915, the Germans had also occupied part of Latvia and reached Riga, because of which industrial enterprises had to be hastily evacuated from there. When the authors of the encyclopedia wrote "almost", they probably meant a dozen square kilometers in the east of the Sventsiansk district, which were still held by the Russian army.
          3. Olgovich
            Olgovich 9 July 2020 07: 29
            -3
            Quote: Alexander Green
            read in the encyclopedia "Civil War and Military Intervention in the USSR" (1983) on page 333.,
            that .... I quote: “Back in June 1917 (in Petrograd), the bourgeois Lithuanian Sejm proclaimed the formation of an“ independent state. ”In September 1917 in L, (the territory was almost completely seized from the fall of 1915) ... and further in the text. Pay attention to the keyword "ALMOST"

            I don't care about false Bolsheviks opuses: SAMA Lithuania Celebrates the Day of Restoring Independence 16 February 1918 g, the restoration of Lithuania was proclaimed in LEC 1917 - all after the Thief.

            And about the gathering of clowns from among the migrants of Lithuanian communities .... Russia lol in June 1917 in Petrograd, the Lithuanians themselves hardly mention it, being aware of their marginality and yes, they did NOT proclaim independence, a liar:
            Nuomonių skirtumai atsispindėjo dviejose rezoliucijose. Pirmajai, aiškiai reikalavusiai atsiskirti nuo Rusijos, nepritare socialistai liaudininkai, socialdemokratai ir santariečiai; atskirame posėdyje jie priėmė kitą rezoliuciją, numatančią toliau dalyvauti kairiajame revoliuciniame judėjime Rusijoje ir joje siekti Lietuvos autonomijos. Dėl šio skilimo iširo Lietuvių tautos taryba
            ... Petrogrado seime atsiradusi politinė takoskyra buvo svarbi tolesniam Lietuvos politiniam gyvenimui.

            Povilas lasinskas


            Quote: Alexander Green
            On Sept. 1917 in L, (the territory of the swarm since the fall of 1915 was almost completely captured ... and further in the text. Pay attention to the keyword "ALMOST"

            There was no "lithuania" in 1917, as Stupid your "cyclopelia" writes and you, it was RUSSIA, hack it on your forehead and this part of it was completely occupied
          4. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 9 July 2020 07: 40
            +2
            Quote: Olgovich
            I don’t give a damn about the lying Bolshevik opuses: SAMA Lithuania celebrates the Day of Restoring Independence from its proclamation on February 16, 1918, the restoration of Lithuania was proclaimed in LEC 1917, all after the BUR.

            How stupid you are, and you are also making yourself a historian ..
            In order for a child to be born, it is necessary to conceive, but only a birthday is celebrated, and not a day of conception.
            And so, chop on your nose: all non-Russian suburbs began to pursue a policy of separatism immediately after the overthrow of the autocracy.
            Impossible without lengthy preparation. "fuck bang" and declare independence.
          5. Olgovich
            Olgovich 9 July 2020 09: 34
            -2
            Quote: Alexander Green
            How stupid you are, and you are also making yourself a historian ..

            You are caught, on LIES and IGNORANCE,
            Quote: Alexander Green
            How stupid you are
            , Yeah...
            Quote: Alexander Green
            so, cut yourself on the nose: all non-Russian suburbs began to pursue a policy of separatism immediately after the overthrow of the autocracy.
            Impossible without lengthy preparation. "fuck bang" and declare independence.

            Pitiful banter lol laughingproved -NOBODY before the thief of independence did not declare, NOBODY!

            All AFTER!

            And this is the result of the so-called DULL criminal. "decrees" of the so-called "narvlast".

            Which we disentangle to this day.
          6. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 9 July 2020 21: 58
            0
            Quote: Olgovich
            All AFTER!

            You can catch as much as you like, only the Lithuanian bourgeois republic was proclaimed right in Petrograd under the very nose of Kerensky
          7. Olgovich
            Olgovich 10 July 2020 10: 42
            -2
            Quote: Alexander Green
            only the Lithuanian bourgeois republic was proclaimed right in Petrograd under the very nose of Kerensky

            You can’t read at all?
            ONCE AGAIN, there was NO declaration of independence and the Republic of Lithuania, i.e. Nothing to see:
            Nuomonių skirtumai atsispindėjo dviejose rezoliucijose. Pirmajai, aiškiai reikalavusiai atsiskirti nuo Rusijos, nepritare socialistai liaudininkai, socialdemokratai ir santariečiai; atskirame posėdyje jie priėmė kitą rezoliuciją, numatančią toliau dalyvauti kairiajame revoliuciniame judėjime Rusijoje ir joje siekti Lietuvos autonomijos. Dėl šio skilimo iširo Lietuvių tautos taryba
            ... Petrogrado seime atsiradusi politinė takoskyra buvo svarbi tolesniam Lietuvos politiniam gyvenimui.

            Povilas lasinskas

            There was a club of talkers from nobody representing the diaspora, who finally quarreled among themselves.

            Lithuanian official history does not even mention them in the matter of proclaiming the republic and independence. Only YOUR LIARS and stupid historians who found ..... Lithuania in ... June belay fool lol 1917 g
          8. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 10 July 2020 11: 52
            0
            Quote: Olgovich
            ONCE AGAIN, there was NO declaration of independence and the Republic of Lithuania, i.e. Nothing to see:

            Do you want to deny it, at least not, but there was a fact that the Lithuanian bourgeois republic was proclaimed back in June 1917, a very respected publication reports about this, and not your Goebbels manuals.
          9. Olgovich
            Olgovich 10 July 2020 12: 20
            -2
            Quote: Alexander Green
            that the Lithuanian bourgeois republic was proclaimed back in June. 1917, this is reported by a very respected

            do not care about these idiots and liars, bring the TEXT of the declaration of independence, a liar!
            Shaw .... no way ?! belay lol laughing No way! lol

            Chatting, not carrying bags, yes ...
          10. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 10 July 2020 17: 50
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            quote the proclamation TEXT

            As soon as the network appears. text, be sure to send.
            In the meantime, check out the link.
            http://www.hrono.ru/proekty/ostu/rus1920.html
            7.6.1917/XNUMX/XNUMX Lithuania. Lithuanian Sejm in Petrograd proclaims independence
            23.9.1917/XNUMX/XNUMX Lithuania. In Vilnius, with the support of the German authorities, the Lithuanian National Council (Tariba) was created, proclaiming the independence of Lithuania from Russia; the government of Antanas Smetona was formed.

            Moreover, there is information on the network that the installation of an independent state in Lithuania was proclaimed back in 1916 in Switzerland.
            https://newdaynews.ru/revolution-1917/620631.html
          11. Olgovich
            Olgovich 10 July 2020 22: 41
            -3
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Once online will appear. text, be sure to send.

            Not yet free, liar! yes
            read the Lithuanians themselves - see above
            Quote: Alexander Green
            In the meantime, check out the link.
            http://www.hrono.ru/proekty/ostu/rus1920.html
            7.6.1917/XNUMX/XNUMX Lithuania. Lithuanian Sejm in Petrograd proclaims independence

            We read Lithuanians, not talkers:
            Nuomonių skirtumai atsispindėjo dviejose rezoliucijose. Pirmajai, aiškiai reikalavusiai atsiskirti nuo Rusijos, nepritare socialistai liaudininkai, socialdemokratai ir santariečiai; atskirame posėdyje jie priėmė kitą rezoliuciją, numatančią toliau dalyvauti kairiajame revoliuciniame judėjime Rusijoje ir joje siekti Lietuvos autonomijos. Dėl šio skilimo iširo Lietuvių tautos taryba
            ... Petrogrado seime atsiradusi politinė takoskyra buvo svarbi tolesniam Lietuvos politiniam gyvenimui

            .1918 m. vasario 16 d. Lietuvos taryba pasirašė Lietuvos nepriklausomybės aktą.

            Vasario 16-tosios aktas skelbia, kad Lietuvos Taryba atskiria Lietuvą nuo visų valstybinių ryšių, kada nors buvusių su kitomis tautomis. Tiesiogiai Valstybės atkūrimo akto tekstą rengė Jonas Vileišis, Petras Klimas, Mykolas Biržiška, Steponas Kairys. Pasirašė jį 20 tarybos narių, be minėtųjų keturių: kun. J. Staugaitis, St. Narutavičius, dr. J. Basanavičius, A. Smetona, kan. K. Šaulys, J. Smilgevičius, K. Bizauskas, J. Vailokaitis, Donatas Malinauskas, kun. Vl. Mironas, kun. A. Petrulis, S. Banaitis, A. Stulginskis, J. Šernas, Pr. Dovydaitis. Dauguma jų. gruodį susirinkusiame Didžiajame Vilniaus Seime, kuriame atvirai buvo svarstoma, kad Lietuvai būtų suteikta autonomija Rusijos imperijos sudėtyje. Tai buvo pirmas žingsnis nepriklausomybės link
            Quote: Alexander Green
            23.9.1917/XNUMX/XNUMX Lithuania. In Vilnius, with the support of the German authorities, the Lithuanian National Council (Tariba) was created, proclaiming the independence of Lithuania from Russia; the government of Antanas Smetona was formed.

            OCCUPIERS, your OWNERS, and not the Lithuanians themselves, Proclaimed the RECOVERY of Lithuania in the occupied Vilna, and independence proclaimed and praised until now by the Lithuanians themselves on the basis of an act of Feb 16, 1918 WHAT THEY STAR FOR:
            1918 m. vasario 16 d. Lietuvos taryba pasirašė Lietuvos nepriklausomybės aktą


            you, as I see, everything that is proclaimed by the OCCUPIERS, is accepted with a bang: KONR Vlasova is ICON for you! disgrace ...

            ps talkers who do not know Lithuanian history -kalbėtojai, nemokantys lietuvių kalbos - į laisvę yes lol
            Something from the Lithuanian grandmother I remember ...
          12. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 11 July 2020 00: 48
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            ps talkers who do not know Lithuanian history


            How are you there, shout out to everyone: “Ignoramus at school! To school!". So, Olgievich, urgently to school - to study World History! Now even schoolchildren know that Lithuania declared independence in June 1917. See lesson 21. P.121
            https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=eoiZBoww3TMC&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq=июнь+1917+провозглашение++литвы&source=bl&ots=ydXEq0HHsO&sig=ACfU3U1NtKE5YtAmk7bwy4X0sgEuOhDgYQ&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjzv9uUssLqAhXpsYsKHZSkAk4Q6AEwBHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=июнь%201917%20провозглашение%20%20литвы&f=false
          13. Olgovich
            Olgovich 11 July 2020 06: 15
            -4
            Quote: Alexander Green
            https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=eoiZBoww3TMC&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq=июнь+1917+провозглашение++литвы&source=bl&ots=ydXEq0HHsO&sig=ACfU3U1NtKE5YtAmk7bwy4X0sgEuOhDgYQ&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjzv9uUssLqAhXpsYsKHZSkAk4Q6AEwBHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=июнь%201917%20провозглашение%20%20литвы&f=false

            I do not understand: you are offering me as an argument disgusting smelly muck from the ministry of "education" so-called. "Ukraine" ?! belay fool lol
            Where did you fall .... Shame ... negative
          14. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 11 July 2020 12: 18
            0
            Quote: Olgovich
            Where did you fall .... Shame ..

            Why do you like this textbook, it is written just according to your Goebbels training manuals, the main principle of which is the alternation of truth and falsehood. So the meeting of the Sejm in June 1917 in Petrograd, confirmed by other sources, then this is true, is a false lie.
          15. Olgovich
            Olgovich 11 July 2020 20: 44
            -2
            Quote: Alexander Green
            So the meeting of the Sejm in June 1917 in Petrograd, confirmed by other sources, then this is true, is a false lie.

            The fact of a gathering of marginal migrants from Russian provinces is not denied by anyone.

            Nobody declared independence there.

            National historiography of Lithuania clearly indicates the date in 1918.

            The text of the "Act of Independence of Lithuania" of June 1917 - ON THE TABLE, a liar! am yes lol
          16. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 11 July 2020 21: 28
            0
            Quote: Olgovich
            The text of the "Act of Independence of Lithuania" of June 1917 - ON THE TABLE, a liar!

            This does not depend on me; I have to wait until the Lithuanian archives reveal all their secrets. You can see there is something to hide.
            And while you take care of your nerves, it’s as if they turned red, so the eye may burst.
          17. Olgovich
            Olgovich 12 July 2020 07: 38
            -3
            Quote: Alexander Green
            This does not depend on me; I have to wait until the Lithuanian archives reveal all their secrets. You can see there is something to hide.

            1.This was in PETROGRAD
            2. There is no sense in hiding.
            Quote: Alexander Green
            And while you take care of your nerves, it’s as if they turned red, so the eye may burst.

            belay fool lol
            The text of the "Act of Independence of Lithuania" of June 1917 - ON THE TABLE, a liar! am fool lol
          18. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 12 July 2020 12: 15
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            The text of the "Act of Independence of Lithuania" of June 1917 - ON THE TABLE, a liar!

            I have already explained to you, will appear on the network - I will send it. I don’t understand one thing: Why are you so stupid? I have already explained to you, as a child, by the example of a pregnant woman: in order for something to be born, it must first be "conceived". You studied philosophy, and I hope you understand what causality is.

            So, the February Revolution of 1917 stirred up all the national feelings of all oppressed peoples and among them national awareness began, and they began to fight for independence. And only thanks to the Great October Socialist Revolution, which recognized all peoples as equal, did they realize that it was easier to fight against the bourgeoisie together and thanks to this all peoples united in the Soviet Union.

            But it already hurt a lot of secret and open enemies, the USSR was in the way, and they destroyed it. And your contribution to this is also, because you’ve kept your stone in your bosom all your life. Now cry. that Russia is destroyed. and this is all because you marked in the USSR, but came to Russia. They say inadvertently that you cannot shoot the past with a pistol, it will then shoot into the future with a gun.
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 7 July 2020 16: 56
    +4
    Quote: Olgovich
    AFTER THE THIEF

    Learn the story of the Thief in particular.
    Quote: Olgovich
    2. NOBODY before the Bolsheviks did not declare withdrawal from Russia. ALL independence declared AFTER the thief and on the basis of its stupid declarations of self-determination

    Seriously? When will you stop distorting the facts? You will earn cirrhosis in your hatred of Russia.
    Quote: Olgovich
    liar and ignoramus: NOBODY announced about leaving Russia.
    ALL independence declared only AFTER THE THIEF

    And why was it to declare that in fact it was perfect. But the liar is you - distorting the facts to justify your worthless rotten royal authority. By the way, and an ignoramus who does not even know the simple I am about the Great October Socialist Revolution, If you want a Bolshevik revolution. Although, if this word warms you, for God's sake continue to show your ignorance.
    Quote: Olgovich
    Tell us how Novorossia (Odessa, Nikolaev, Izmail, Yekaterinoslav, Elizavetgrad, Melitopol, Tiraspol, etc.), Uralsk, Verny, Vitebsk, Mogilev, etc., etc. "were torn" from .... Russia

    Odessa on which the French walked? Or about Novorossia, in which the Supreme Council began to sit back in March 1917? Here you are definitely skipping the story.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 7 July 2020 20: 56
      -7
      Quote: Fitter65
      Seriously? When will you stop distorting the facts? You will earn cirrhosis in your hatred of Russia.

      You are thrown right at your face with facts!
      Are you able to refute them other than your empty CHAW? Not!
      Quote: Fitter65
      And why was it to declare that in fact it was perfect.

      ANYTHING was committed, therefore, there were NOT statements.

      But after the THIEF of declarations of independence and the FACT of having such, there was a LOT!
      Quote: Fitter65
      Odessa on which the French walked? Or about Novorossi

      Yours raped RUSSIAN Odessa, Nikolaev, etc. (see above) in the composition ..Ukraine, Kazakhstan and pr bklorussii.

      None of them I didn’t leave Russia and I didn’t rush to do it as you FALSEly declared.
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 8 July 2020 00: 55
        -1
        Quote: Olgovich
        Your raped RUSSIAN Odessa, Nikolaev

        By the way, territories occupied by Russian occupiers and joined the Russian Empire in the 18th century. A natural phenomenon ....
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 8 July 2020 05: 34
          -5
          Quote: Fitter65
          By the way territories captured by Russian occupiers and annexed to the Russian Empire in the 18th century. A natural phenomenon ....

          ....WHAT?! belay fool
          Territory of the future Nikolaev and Odessa... "captured" from the owners, i.e. TURKEY?! fool lol laughing Russia ... occupied the TURKISH lands?

          This is what Bolshevism does with brains ... request And that, yes:
          Quote: Fitter65
          A natural phenomenon ...
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 7 July 2020 08: 16
    +3
    Quote: Nagan
    Nothing new, so, an abstract of well-known sources on a solid "C".

    But sincerely laughing
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 7 July 2020 09: 35
      -1
      Quote: Krasnodar
      But sincerely

      The article reminded me of the immortal:
      The red-haired one is quite comfortable with the decor and pretty sensibly, albeit monotonously, told the contents of the mass brochure "Rebellion on" Ochakovo' "
      yes
    2. gsev
      gsev 7 July 2020 13: 14
      +2
      Quote: Krasnodar
      But sincerely

      In my opinion, the main goals of Stalin in this war were: 1. to capture the Kuril Islands and Southern Sakhalin to ensure freedom of the Pacific Fleet. 2 Remove from Manchuria and Korea the military bases of hostile or potentially dangerous states. 3. Receive recognition of Mongolia’s independence from China. There were still interests in East Turkestan, but this is an interesting but little studied topic, which, in the conditions of the power of modern China, they try not to raise. You can read more about the latter in Kazakh sources. Perhaps it was already possible.
  • lucul
    lucul 7 July 2020 08: 38
    +2
    Nothing new, so, an abstract of well-known sources on a solid "C".

    Nevertheless, those who know - and so they know, and youth will be useful.
    What is interesting - all of these Japanese Zero, Reppu, Ki -61, Ki -44, Ki-84 and other aircraft that severely battered US aviation did not notice our pilots at all how the knife went through the oil. No one noticed the outstanding characterization of Japanese fighter aircraft. Against our Shops and Jacob they were completely useless. )))
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 7 July 2020 09: 07
      +1
      Quote: lucul
      What is interesting - all of these Japanese Zero, Reppu, Ki -61, Ki -44, Ki-84 and other aircraft that severely battered US aircraft did not notice our pilots at all how the knife went through the oil

      Because the Americans had dealings with professionals who were selected and trained for years, like the Germans of 1941. But by 1945, both of them were kicked out, and they taught newcomers according to the principle "I worked take off and landing, I learned how to climb and turn, then learn by doing." And threw to plug holes in the defense. Roughly the same as the Red Army Air Force in 1941-1942. And in 1945 there were experienced people in the Air Force, who had passed the selection of battles, including 1941-1942, when the really most capable survived.
      1. lucul
        lucul 7 July 2020 10: 07
        10
        But by 1945, both of them were kicked out, and they taught newcomers according to the principle "I worked take off and landing, I learned how to climb and turn, then learn by doing." And threw to plug holes in the defense.

        And?
        That is, if the yapps who have completed 7 years of training fly their planes, then this plane is immediately a masterpiece. And just like ours, who have completed 3-month training courses, fly on our planes, so the planes immediately are junk and backward.
        But how did the situation change to the opposite - so right away - it’s only the preparation of the Japanese pilots that is to blame, right?
        Impartiality - no, have not heard such a term?
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 7 July 2020 11: 00
          -2
          Quote: lucul
          the situation changed to the opposite - so right away - only the training of Japanese pilots is to blame, right?

          Sure. In both cases, pilot training and the enemy are to blame. The best British ace did not fly on Spit, but on Hurricane and Gloucester. But he fought mainly with Italians.
          Quote: lucul
          the plane is immediately a masterpiece. And just like ours, who have completed 3-month training courses, fly on our planes, so the planes immediately - trash and backward

          Yes, it is quite. Zero with LaGG can not be compared. This is not connected with the pilots; these are parallel processes.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 7 July 2020 14: 48
            +1
            Quote: Octopus
            Yes, it is quite. Zero with LaGG can not be compared.

            Nevertheless, the Armymen liked the LaGG-1942 that the Japanese received in 3.
            Although at LaGGs everything depends on the series and time of release - depending on this, the characteristics of serial cars changed from fighter to varnished guaranteed coffin.
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 7 July 2020 15: 10
              0
              The army, especially the Kwantung ones, had no Zero, it seems. Moreover, the advantages of Zero, such as a huge range, are not so important for a front-line fighter.
              1. Revolver
                Revolver 7 July 2020 15: 29
                +3
                Quote: Octopus
                The army, especially the Kwantung ones, had no Zero

                Zero were naval.
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus 7 July 2020 15: 32
                  -1
                  In the Kwantung army?
                  1. Revolver
                    Revolver 7 July 2020 16: 38
                    +1
                    Quote: Octopus
                    In the Kwantung army?

                    That's why they didn’t have it.
              2. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 7 July 2020 18: 29
                +2
                Quote: Octopus
                The army, especially the Kwantung ones, had no Zero, it seems. Moreover, the advantages of Zero, such as a huge range, are not so important for a front-line fighter.

                That's exactly what I hinted at. wink
                It is better to compare land hunters with land hunters. And against the backdrop of Japanese army aviation arr. 1942 LaGG-3 turned out to be quite a machine.
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus 7 July 2020 19: 18
                  -1
                  ))
                  It is more correct to say that this is the 42nd year Japanese army aviation was full of crap, even against the background of LaGG-3.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 7 July 2020 09: 18
      +4
      Quote: lucul
      What is interesting - all of these Japanese Zero, Reppu, Ki -61, Ki -44, Ki-84 and other aircraft that severely battered US aviation did not notice our pilots at all how the knife went through the oil. No one noticed the outstanding characterization of Japanese fighter aircraft. Against our Shops and Jacob they were completely useless. )))

      It is very difficult to compare the characteristics of airplanes if one of the sides practically did not rise into the air. smile
      ZabFR: in the front line for the entire duration of the operation, the air defense forces discovered 24 enemy sorties: 4 for reconnaissance and 20 for the bombing of our troops (3 groups: 12.08.45/8/16.08.45 - 2 aircraft, 6/XNUMX/XNUMX - XNUMX times XNUMX vehicles each). All.
      Moreover, of the 157 vehicles captured by the ZabFR troops, only 19 (12%) could be classified as modern.
      2nd Far Eastern Front: The front air force first met the enemy only on 18.08.45/2/7 in the Harbin area. What kind of enemy it was can be judged by the fact that the Japanese could not intercept the Pe-XNUMX scout from the XNUMXth brigade - the "pawn" left the fighters, taking advantage of the superiority in speed.
      1st Far Eastern Front: Front Air Force lost one car out of a total of seventeen downed in air battles.

      Perhaps our aviation posed a great danger to our troops - an attack on Mulin was an example of this.
      In 11-45, our aircraft made a massive raid by IL-4 groups in the city of Mulin. Killed up to 200 troops, including the head of the army DC major Goldstein. Up to 200 cars, 12 guns and 8 mortars were broken and burned.

      Our bomber aircraft of the IL-4 type made a bomber raid on the city of Mulin, occupied by the troops of the 5th Army. As a result of the bombing, 5 fires occurred, there are victims in parts and among the local population.
      According to the oral order deputy. the commander of artillery air defense forces of the 5th Army 2011 and 1278 ZAP fired on their aircraft. 52 85 mm and 34 37 mm shells were expended. Two soldiers were killed, 6 wounded.

      By the way, this was the only case of firing by forces of the 48th ass for the entire Manchu campaign.
    3. Fitter65
      Fitter65 7 July 2020 12: 45
      +2
      Quote: lucul
      No one noticed the outstanding characterization of Japanese fighter aircraft. Against our Shops and Jacob they were completely useless.

      So they practically didn’t fly out, the number of air battles conducted with the Japanese can be counted on the fingers of one hand ...
  • Octopus
    Octopus 7 July 2020 06: 39
    +3
    )))
    What will happen if all content is thrown out of the Stalin-Russian text of Samsonov, leaving only slogans?

    Alexander Kharaluzhny answers:
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 7 July 2020 06: 49
    -4
    Once he worked with a man whose grandfather spent the whole war. By the stupidity of a juvenile hooligan, he earned money, and as in 41 villages, he was naughty until the summer of 45 ...
    And now there is an amnesty on the occasion of the end of the war, and the old chief of the zone does not release them, young prisoners. It almost didn't come to a riot! But the "godfather" built everyone up and vaguely explained that he was delaying young guys for a couple of months. Then, they say, they will also say thank you.
    It turns out that he knew about the future war with Japan and simply felt sorry for the yellow-handed youths, so that they would not be sent to the front ....
    1. apro
      apro 7 July 2020 08: 07
      +3
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      and as in 41 villages, so until the summer of the 45th and he started ...

      Normally extinguished ....
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 7 July 2020 08: 32
      +3
      Appendicitis saved my case. He ran away as a volunteer to the front, got to the Kursk Bulge - a small splinter in the eye that got a ricochet from a weapon, and a hospital. He suffered pains in his stomach before, attributed it to bad food, everything intensified in the hospital, the fragment was pulled out, and his grandfather writhed in pain. We felt the stomach - a fighter, you have appendicitis - we will cut it out. They poured alcohol into the young sports talent (football player), which gave him balls - there was no other anesthetic, and the doctor speaks softly to him in Jewish - I will tell you when it should be painful, then you can scream. He was very painful at once, but still very ashamed - screaming in front of an adult doctor-officer was not beautiful. Unable to stand, asked - when already? I’m stitching it already, the shameless doctor answered, deceiving a naive child.
      He was sent to the rear, in a hospital they asked who has 8 education classes and was sent to the courses of commanders of armored vehicles ..
      So he escaped from this meat grinder. At the end of the course he sat on the Su-100, participated in the capture of Sakhalin. About the Japanese military responded very flattering.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 7 July 2020 08: 55
        +4
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Appendicitis saved my case.
        And my engineering degree saved me. He was a stock starley, there is a photo from the pre-war training camp, where he is with three cubs in his collar tabs. In 1941, like almost all the men around him, he volunteered for the military registration and enlistment office, and there his military ID was taken away and he was told like "there is enough cannon fodder without you, but someone has to make guns." He tried to scandalize, but it did not help, they were not allowed to go to the front. And they appointed him the head of the evacuation train that transported the plant from St. Petersburg to the Urals. And there, in the Urals, they appointed the chief mechanic, later and until the end of the war, and also the acting director of one of the factories that worked under Zaltsman (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaltsman_Isaak_Moiseevich). He had a medal "For Valiant Labor" - almost the same as "For Victory over Germany", the same profile of Stalin, only a different ribbon. It is a pity, they were not allowed to take with them.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 7 July 2020 09: 11
          +2
          The grandfather’s elder brother was also sent for the Urals because of his specialty. But he did not resist)). And the second grandfather was saved by the knowledge of languages ​​- they almost shot their own ones upon leaving the encirclement - spoke Russian with a Romanian accent, and when they realized that he knew German and Romanian - first to the headquarters as an interpreter, then they saw that the peasant was strong and nosy - in intelligence and etc., up to an injury of the right elbow. As a result, a translator. There were awards, he did not wear them, after the death they were taken by relatives, so what they are not in the know. Two of his brothers also fought - one died, they thought near Stalingrad. On the site, the memory of the people says that he died in 1944. The second brother survived, ended the war in Europe.
        2. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 7 July 2020 09: 21
          0
          Quote: Nagan
          working under Salzmann

          "Under" how is it? Under the leadership of Zaltsman or under him? Express yourself in Russian.
          Quote: Nagan
          It’s a pity they didn’t allow me to take it with me.

          Not allowed to take what? Medal?
          Not allowed to take where?
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 7 July 2020 09: 24
            +3
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Not allowed to take where?

            To America. They said that if there is no person for whom the award documents are issued, then the awards cannot be taken out. And the death certificate did not help.
      2. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 7 July 2020 09: 22
        0
        Quote: Krasnodar
        So he escaped from this meat grinder

        From which meat grinder? What are you talking about?
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 7 July 2020 09: 26
          +2
          Battle of Kursk.
    3. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 7 July 2020 11: 15
      +3
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      It turns out he knew about a future war with Japan

      1.How could he know about the future war with Japan, when it was kept secret. Even the troops who were traveling from Germany to the Far East did not know where they were being taken.
      2. They didn’t send them to the front, they even replaced local commanders with those who participated in the hostilities.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 7 July 2020 17: 57
        -1
        Quote: Alexander Green

        2. They didn’t send them to the front, they even replaced local commanders with those who participated in the hostilities.

        Grandfather was sent after vocational training, although he did not fight as a commander of the Su-100. Some may have been experienced. But judging by what they were doing (they were shooting directly from the barge at the Japanese tanks approaching the coast, then they covered the landing) such a fig where you learn)).
    4. Fitter65
      Fitter65 7 July 2020 12: 55
      +1
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      It turns out that he knew about the future war with Japan and simply felt sorry for the yellow-handed youths, so that they would not be sent to the front ....

      Oh how !! There are not any division commanders, but only units from the army commanders, they were dedicated to this plan, and the head of the ITK was aware of the plans of the General Staff !!!! Accept my applause !!! good
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      ... just felt sorry for the yellow-and-yellow youths, so that they would not be sent to the front unshooted ....

      Directly from the gates of the zone, rifle in hand and in battle. And it turns out basically the yellow-and-white guys left the zone ... They saw others in the penal battalions on the fronts of the struggle against the Nazi laughing laughing laughing .
    5. Fitter65
      Fitter65 8 July 2020 13: 34
      -1
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      By the stupidity of a juvenile hooligan, he earned money, and as in 41 villages, he was naughty until the summer of the 45th ...

      If a malicious hooligan, then up to 5 years. And then a juvenile bully and almost for the full term, nude-nude ...
  • Undecim
    Undecim 7 July 2020 09: 30
    +6
    The propagandist Kharaluzhny with his agitation dealt another blow to the history and reputation of the VO site.
    The actions of the Red Army on the crushing defeat of imperial Japan in August-September 1945 are rightfully considered one of the most brilliant offensive operations carried out during the Second World War.
    In August - September 1945, the USSR did not defeat Japan, but its Kwantung Army, whose commander, General Yamada, on August 16, 1945 ordered the cessation of resistance.
    Anyone who believes that the Soviet Union got involved in a military conflict with Japan, blindly following the whims of the Allies, is very deeply mistaken.
    A maxim that is phenomenal in its stupidity, as can be easily seen by reading the materials of at least the Crimean Conference February 4-11, 1945
    However, there was a very serious snag in the form of the Neutrality Pact signed in April 1941. Well, we are not the Nazis to attack, treacherously violating such agreements. In this regard, on April 5, 1945, Moscow notified Tokyo of its unwillingness to renew the Covenant, thereby making it clear its intentions more than transparently.
    Another mistake, showing that the author does not understand what he is writing about.
    On April 5, 1945, Moscow notified Tokyo not about the unwillingness to renew the Covenant, but about its desire denounce.. And in accordance with the terms of the said pact, denunciation is provided for a year before the expiration date. That is, formally the agreement was valid for another year, until April 1946, to which the Japanese side paid attention, and the Soviet side agreed with it.
    One gets the impression that the main goal of the work of this author is to inflict maximum reputation losses on the site that hosted it.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 7 July 2020 09: 39
      +2
      What a wicked you are))
    2. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 7 July 2020 09: 46
      +4
      Quote: Undecim

      A maxim that is phenomenal in its stupidity, as can be easily seen by reading the materials of at least the Crimean Conference February 4-11, 1945

      I can not agree with you.
      In your opinion, it turns out that Stalin gave the forced consent to the war with Japan. But this is not so. Stalin really pursued his goals promising the Allies a war with Japan.
      I believe that if the Allies had not asked Stalin about this, he would still, using a mobilized, well-trained and experienced army, defeat Japan in order to secure the USSR in the Far East and take Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands.
      Just the goals of the allies, in particular the United States, and Stalin in the Far East coincided.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 7 July 2020 10: 07
        +1
        In your opinion, it turns out that Stalin gave the forced consent to the war with Japan.
        Where did you see this idea in my mind? Naturally, Stalin, like the allies, pursued his own goals. And to achieve his goals he used the situation. The conditions on which the USSR agreed to enter the war with Japan were the subject of a lengthy "bargaining" that lasted from December 1941. And the way the author presented this long and tense stage of diplomatic activity is an outrage over history.
        As for the fact that the USSR, without coordination with the allies, on its own, would receive what it was possible to obtain as a result, there are big doubts.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 7 July 2020 10: 44
          +3
          Quote: Undecim

          As for the fact that the USSR, without coordination with the allies, on its own, would receive what it was possible to obtain as a result, there are big doubts.

          And what did the USSR get in the end? Sakhalin? Kuril Islands? And how could the Allies counteract this? How could you not allow it?
          The argument is about nothing.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 7 July 2020 10: 47
            -1
            The argument is about nothing.
            That's right.
        2. Octopus
          Octopus 7 July 2020 11: 13
          +2
          Quote: Undecim
          As for the fact that the USSR, without coordination with the allies, on its own, would receive what it was possible to obtain as a result, there are big doubts.

          You are not quite right. Sharing rootlets with the Allies is a fascinating thing (in particular, the USSR bargained for the recognition of the MPR, which then existed on the rights of some other people's republics), but optional for Comrade Stalin. In any case, he got into Chinese affairs as early as the 20s; he wanted to get not the CER with Port Arthur, but all of China. Which, in fact, he did.

          The Allies too long refused to believe it. As they say, Roosevelt does not need a knife.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 7 July 2020 13: 21
            +1
            Quote: Octopus
            In any case, he got into Chinese affairs as early as the 20s; he wanted to get not the CER with Port Arthur, but all of China. Which, in fact, he did.

            I wonder where you saw documented evidence of your fantasies?
            And most importantly, how Stalin managed to do this, at least partially - tell us in more detail with links to documents. Of course, there was help to the "Chinese comrades" - this is indisputable, but the plans of Alexander the Great were unlikely for Stalin to be a guide to action.
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 7 July 2020 14: 13
              +1
              Quote: ccsr
              I wonder where you saw documented evidence of your fantasies?

              Google, Chinese Soviet Republic.
              Quote: ccsr
              The help to the "Chinese comrades" was of course

              And, well, that is, the comrades themselves were there, the Comintern had nothing to do with it.
              OK.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 7 July 2020 20: 22
                +1
                Quote: Octopus
                Google

                Everything is clear, this is not proof. You from alternatives seem ...
                Quote: Octopus
                And, well, that is, the comrades themselves were there, the Comintern had nothing to do with it.

                I did not deny that we helped many countries, and even allegedly considered the issue of Bulgaria's entry as one of the republics in the USSR, but it was about China that it distorted - Stalin did not have such plans.
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus 7 July 2020 21: 09
                  +1
                  Quote: ccsr
                  this is not proof. You from alternatives seem ...

                  Is this red China an alternative story? Oh well.
                  Quote: ccsr
                  that we helped many countries

                  That's an alternative, yes.

                  The Comintern did not help many, but generally no countries. The Comintern helped establish Soviet power in various places where it had not existed before. Helped quite effectively.

                  Quote: ccsr
                  Bulgaria’s entry as one of the republics in the USSR, but about China it’s clearly distorted

                  What is it for? That China was not a republic of the USSR, and therefore the phrase I didn’t want to get CER with Port Arthur, but all of China. What he, in fact, did incorrect? Did not receive China Comrade Stalin?

                  Maybe he didn’t receive the mentioned Bulgaria from the MPR?
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 7 July 2020 21: 43
                    +1
                    Quote: Octopus
                    Is this red China an alternative story?

                    This is not a union republic in the USSR - you hinted at it. And we lost Port Arthur too quickly, although we could have left it for 99 years.
                    Quote: Octopus
                    The Comintern helped establish Soviet power in various places where it had not existed before.

                    Was he the one who established Soviet power in fascist Germany?
                    Quote: Octopus
                    Helped quite effectively.

                    So that Stalin had to disperse it.
                    Quote: Octopus
                    Did not receive China Comrade Stalin?

                    He did not receive it in the form in which you present it - it is not for you the Warsaw Treaty countries, which had nowhere to go because the Red Army was standing there. As I understand it, you too easily present historical events, ignoring the real possibilities that Stalin had at that time.
                    1. Octopus
                      Octopus 7 July 2020 22: 27
                      -2
                      Quote: ccsr
                      This is not a union republic in the USSR - you hinted at it

                      Of course not. Comrade Stalin was not unicellular, for all its minuses.
                      Quote: ccsr
                      they could have left it for 99 years.

                      Until the 69th by force. There comrade Mao would ask for a boot in the ass, as he asked in reality from other places.
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Was he the one who established Soviet power in fascist Germany?

                      There the Comintern could not cope, the liberating army dealt, where it managed to reach.
                      And what exactly did Germany help from the Comintern, in your opinion?
                      Quote: ccsr
                      So that Stalin had to disperse it

                      Comrade Stalin considered it timely to sing the so-called Allies. Instead of the Comintern, he immediately created another office under the formal leadership of the same future leader of the Bulgarian people, comrade. Dimitrova.

                      Since the so-called Allies were naturally blunt, they were not aware that they needed to demand not the signing of senseless pieces of paper, but the execution of all the participants in this beautiful organization, and most importantly, to outweigh all the good people for their part. Comrade Tolyatti, comrade Thoreza and others. Alas, such ideas reached the partners much later, and on a much smaller scale than they should have, the Condor operation.

                      Quote: ccsr
                      He did not receive it as you present it.

                      Comrade Stalin won the victory in China of the forces with which he played along with the 20s, including weapons. Yes, it quickly became clear that the picture of Comrade Mao’s world categorically does not imply any older brothers, but there’s a hole in Joseph Vissarionitch’s, even two - Mao and Tito.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 8 July 2020 12: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Comrade Stalin won the victory in China of the forces with which he played along with the 20s, including weapons.

                        And what is your "discovery" if during the times of Khrushchev and Brezhnev, we also played along with another national liberation movement, not only by supplying weapons, but also by training local personnel in our country. Well, it was not part of the plans of Stalin or those who replaced him, the inclusion of these regions in the economic and economic activities of the USSR as our republics. I hope you won't argue with this? There was a theory of proletarian internationalism, unfortunately erroneous, and all the leaders followed it to show their adherence to the ideas of Marxism-Leninism. Well, there was such a political slogan, and now what to make a tragedy out of this?
                      2. Octopus
                        Octopus 8 July 2020 13: 04
                        -2
                        Quote: ccsr
                        And what is your "discovery" here

                        My? It’s you have some problems with the acceptance of reality. I do not see any contradictions between the phrases "The GDR (Vietnam, Cuba) were Soviet" and "The GDR (Vietnam, Cuba) were not part of the USSR".
                        Quote: ccsr
                        all the leaders followed her to show adherence to the ideas of Marxism-Leninism.

                        Yes Yes. Comrade Dubcek, for example, followed, but got a little lost, had to be corrected.
              2. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 8 July 2020 11: 53
                0
                Gao Gang, the leader of the Communists of Manchuria, requested the USSR as a union republic before 1949, but Joseph the Terrible told him - not FIG. Mao then Gao Gang remembered this separatism.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 8 July 2020 12: 32
                  +2
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  Gao Gang, the Communist leader of Manchuria, requested the USSR as a union republic before 1949, but Joseph the Terrible told him - not figs.

                  Absolutely true - Stalin was a pragmatist and understood that the Soviet people would not feed the next parasites, so he gave such petitioners a turn from the gates. And here, some opponents represent Stalin as soon as he dreamed of snatching a piece of foreign territory, although he only partially returned to the borders of the Russian Empire after 1945.
  • lucul
    lucul 7 July 2020 10: 29
    -1
    The propagandist Kharaluzhny with his agitation dealt another blow to the history and reputation of the VO site.

    The more Oppy scolded the author - then the author is doing everything right))))
  • Octopus
    Octopus 7 July 2020 11: 08
    0
    Quote: Undecim
    whose commander, General Yamada, on August 16, 1945 ordered an end to the resistance.

    More precisely, he accepted the execution of the Emperor’s script on August 14th.
    Quote: Undecim
    desire to denounce it .. And in accordance with the terms of the said pact, denunciation is provided for a year before the expiration date

    On the contrary. The contract provided for auto-renewal in the absence of applications from both parties. If the parties refuse to renew, the contract is valid for the period agreed in the 41st year, up to the 46th. Comrade Molotov declared in April 45th that the USSR was no longer bound by this treaty. The remark of the ambassador of Japan that the agreement does not contain a denunciation mechanism, that is, it is not denunciation, but cancellation of the agreement (recognition of it as null and void from the moment of conclusion) Molotov replied, which means cancellation.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 7 July 2020 11: 16
      0
      Text "Statement of the Soviet Government on the Denunciation of the Neutrality Pact with Japan of April 5, 1945" and read the text of the Pact.
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 7 July 2020 11: 31
        0
        Quote: Undecim
        Text "Statement of the Soviet Government on the Denunciation of the Neutrality Pact with Japan of April 5, 1945" and read the text of the Pact.

        Was reading.
        This pact comes into force from the day of its ratification by both contracting parties and remains valid for five years. If none of the contracting parties denounces the pact one year before the deadline, it will be considered automatically extended for the next five years.


        Does this wording allow for an attack in August 45 with "denunciation" in April 45, or not?
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 7 July 2020 12: 21
          +1
          If you approach formally, without ideological twists, then no.
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 7 July 2020 12: 50
            -2
            The Japanese side is of the same opinion.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 7 July 2020 12: 57
              0
              This, in fact, does not change anything, but the ideological bugbear prevents the perception of history as a sequence of events.
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 7 July 2020 14: 08
                +1
                Our cannot be traitors.
  • BAI
    BAI 7 July 2020 09: 42
    +2
    It’s time to pay Tokyo for 1905, for Tsushima, Port Arthur and the death of the Varyag.
    Really needed. It was necessary to return the Kuril Islands and South Sakhalin. And the elimination of the constant military threat for us, and for China, and for Mongolia.
  • BAI
    BAI 7 July 2020 10: 13
    +3
    It’s time to pay Tokyo for 1905, for Tsushima, Port Arthur and the death of the Varyag.

    There is a document. The bar is removed.
    Agreement of the Crimean Conference on the Far East. February 11, 1945 Archive of the foreign policy of the Russian Federation, f. 3b, op. 1, p. 19, d. 235
    Why should propaganda slogans and propaganda be presented as the true goals of the war?


    All the goals of the war for the USSR are indicated very clearly.
    By the way, the author remembered nothing about the Crimean conference in the article.
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 7 July 2020 10: 41
      +2
      Quote: BAI
      Why should propaganda slogans and propaganda be presented as the true goals of the war?

      You see, this "Agreement" can be interpreted in different ways.
      1. All points of the "Agreement" begged by Stalin from the allies in exchange for the war with Japan.
      2. All items are Stalin's condition under which the USSR will enter the war with Japan.
      And now the question is - if the allies would not agree to the Soviet Kuril Islands and Sakhalin, the USSR would enter the war with Japan?
      Obviously, there was no bargaining. Just Stalin slandered, warned the Allies what he would do after the defeat of Japan.
      Give me documentary facts of the Allied resistance to these Stalinist conditions.
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 7 July 2020 11: 22
        -2
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Bring me documentary facts of Allied resistance to these Stalinist conditions.

        Everything is quite sad there.

        In the 40s, the State Department (Hull, then Stettinius) dug up a corpse stewardess League of Nations, repainted under the UN. In the name of this idea, they were ready for any folly. In particular, this idea of ​​USSR participation in the war with Japan came out. Purely to demonstrate unity.

        Neither Marshall nor MacArthur knew about such an "Ally", and Nimitz generally thought about landing troops in Korea in August in order to limit the successes of the liberation army a little.

        Well, they didn’t swing on time, they had to land later. In September of the 50th.
        1. gsev
          gsev 7 July 2020 13: 37
          +1
          Quote: Octopus
          and at Nimitz they even thought in August to immediately land in Korea,

          The US Navy only in the summer of 1945 managed to organize a breakthrough of its submarines in the Sea of ​​Japan. Stalin, expecting the resistance of the Japanese, demanded that the United States organize convoys to supply Soviet troops in the Far East no later than 2-3 months after the USSR entered the war with Japan. For the entire war in the Pacific, the United States carried out landings on isolated islands, previously blocking them with naval aviation and the fleet. Landing in Manchuria or Korea was much more difficult than in Okinawa if the Japanese continued to fight.
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 7 July 2020 14: 07
            0
            Quote: gsev
            only in the summer of 1945 was he able to organize a breakthrough of his submarines in the Sea of ​​Japan

            Google, Sinano.
            Quote: gsev
            Landing in Manchuria or Korea was much more difficult than in Okinawa if the Japanese continued to fight.

            Yes. But all the successes of the liberation army were noted after August 10, when the issue of the adoption of the Potsdam Declaration was already resolved by the Japanese side, with the exception of the details.
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 7 July 2020 15: 34
            +1
            Quote: gsev
            During the entire war in the Pacific, the United States carried out landings on isolated islands, previously blocking them with naval aviation and the navy.

            At the same time, the US Navy managed to isolate the territory the size of the Philippines.
            Quote: gsev
            Landing in Manchuria or Korea was much more difficult than in Okinawa if the Japanese continued to fight.

            How to fight? Look at the Hattori - the total numbers for divisions, planes and other things, of course, are great. But how it comes to particulars, it suddenly turns out. that even the defense divisions of the Metropolis of the 1945 formation can only be armed for a quarter. And the thousands of Japanese aviation 3/4 consists of training and obsolete machines. It is impossible to produce new ones because of the destruction of the production chain after earthquakes and bombing. Even the screws - and those are missing.
        2. 5-9
          5-9 7 July 2020 14: 14
          0
          Okinawa was not enough for them ... disembarkers
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 7 July 2020 14: 37
            -4
            In Okinawa, the Americans exchanged for the killed, it is believed that 1:10 in their favor without taking into account the peacekeeper) The Red Army in the Kerch-Feodosia operation exchanged like, 1: 100, it seems?
            1. 5-9
              5-9 7 July 2020 14: 45
              +3
              This is when they recorded in the killed all the male population of the island? The Japanese had 2 divisions there, one old Kwantung (which also fought), the second new assembled from the world on a thread and a militia of firefighters, policemen, sympathizers with the drekoly .... and the Japanese went on successful counterattacks and got so excited !!!
              About some incredible amount of American trunks, planes and tons of bombs and shells dumped on these unfortunate 1,5 infantry divisions (in fact), there’s nothing to say .... the Americans themselves didn’t like this experiment so much and the desire to climb onto the islands of the Japanese homeland they didn’t have .....
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 7 July 2020 15: 21
                -1
                Quote: 5-9
                This is when they recorded in the killed all the male population of the island?

                Not just masculine. But with civilians, the result is even better.
                Quote: 5-9
                the Japanese there were 2 divisions, one old Kwantung (which fought), the second new

                Was it like there was 32A?
                By the way, do you think the German losses of the 45th without Volkssturm also? It is worthy.
                Quote: 5-9
                About some incredible amount of American trunks, planes and tons of bombs and shells dumped on these unfortunate 1,5 infantry divisions (in fact) there’s nothing to say

                Yes, the Americans of the 45th year of shells did not spare.
                Quote: 5-9
                the Americans themselves didn’t like this experiment sooo and they had no desire to climb the islands of the Japanese homeland .....

                In fact, MacArthur did just that. When the topic of AB came up, the army initially dismissed - they say, do not bother to cook real meat.
      2. BAI
        BAI 7 July 2020 14: 12
        +2
        Would the USSR enter the war with Japan?

        Of course. But not directly, but as a support to China. And why would the allies not agree? What do they care about Sakhalin? We have a mutually beneficial deal. No one missed his chance.
        Give me documentary facts of the Allied resistance to these Stalinist conditions.

        What are the facts of resistance? No one resisted anyone. THE TRANSACTION WAS FAVORABLE TO EVERYONE except Japan.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 7 July 2020 15: 55
          +1
          Quote: BAI
          What are the facts of resistance?

          So I’m talking about that - the war with Japan, it’s not according to the obligations of the USSR to the allies, but the desire of the USSR to regain Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands, gain influence in China and Korea.
      3. Looking for
        Looking for 7 July 2020 14: 59
        -1
        Stalin never and never. did not beg. litter you are liberal.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 7 July 2020 15: 37
          0
          Quote: Seeker
          Stalin never and never. did not beg. litter you are liberal.

          If you do this to me, you should note the poverty of your mind and an excess of emotions.
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk

          Obviously, there was no bargaining. Just Stalin slandered, warned the Allies what he would do after the defeat of Japan.
  • U-58
    U-58 7 July 2020 11: 10
    +6
    I am proud that my grandfather, as an employee of the intelligence department of the NKVD Border Troops, just became a participant in securing the transfer of troops.
    He and his colleagues revealed an unhealthy interest shown at one of the junction stations for the transfer of troops.
    As a result, the residence of the enemy was revealed. And, of course, eliminated.
    It was ordered to transfer the liquidation of the network to SMERSH, but the comrades themselves did an excellent job.
    Grandfather was injured during the operation. Following the results of his grandfather, at the end of July 1945 he was awarded the Order of the Red Banner.
    These were his second wound and the second order during the war, although the service took place over many thousands of kilometers. from the front.
  • iouris
    iouris 7 July 2020 12: 39
    +1
    Quote: "However, there was a very serious snag in the form of the Neutrality Pact signed in April 1941." End of quote.
    There was no "catch". Japan is the aggressor who started WWII, a member of the Berlin-Rome-Tokyo "axis". The USSR fulfilled the joint decision of the United Nations, which defeated the Axis states. However, by the time Japan was defeated in the United States and Great Britain, the leaders of states had been replaced, who had ceased cooperation with the USSR and began to "contain the USSR."
  • Wildgoose
    Wildgoose 7 July 2020 15: 53
    0
    If Meretskov in the Far East had a minimum of 3 months in reserve, then in the Kandalaksha direction they could not stock up much ammunition and food. Despite the report of Meretskov in April 1940 after the winter war, that due to the lack of roads in the north, the supply should prepare and make up reserves of 5-8 b \ k and food 3 and fodder 3-5 daily supplies, yet our troops made a heroic feat, having supplies from the wheels, and food leftovers of 0,2 days, namely, 420 joint ventures and 596 cm 122 s trophy fodder, b / c 0,5-1,3, fuel and lubricants from the need for 800 tons, there were only 300. The lack of trucks is 50%, but even if the trucks were fully available, they would not have passed along these roads, there was not enough capacity. It reached the point that the supply was made in places by tractors converted from T34 (without a tower).
    And the ideally begun offensive had to be stopped and replaced with the pursuit of the retreating enemy
  • Hhrist
    Hhrist 7 July 2020 17: 40
    -5
    on the hills of Manchuria. Preparation of the USSR for the defeat of Japan

    Wow.
    It turns out that the Universe of scoops Japan surrendered not after the atomic bombings of the Americans, but as a result of the defeat by the USSR.
    Miracles, and only.
    1. Alf
      Alf 7 July 2020 18: 39
      +3
      Carbine, are you here again? Why are you so dragging you here? Raspberries do not seem to be smeared ..
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 8 July 2020 12: 00
        +1
        Carbine, are you here again? Why are you so dragging you here? Raspberries do not seem to be smeared ..

        Money is dripping. Troll on earnings.
        1. Alf
          Alf 8 July 2020 18: 46
          +2
          Quote: Aviator_
          Carbine, are you here again? Why are you so dragging you here? Raspberries do not seem to be smeared ..

          Money is dripping. Troll on earnings.

          This is understandable, but you can’t expose yourself as a complete cr-nom, isn’t it yourself disgusting?
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 8 July 2020 20: 31
            +1
            Emperor Vespasian, who established a tax on public toilets, uttered an aphorism for centuries: "money does not smell." The troll is guided by it. And what a creature looks like - so maybe it really is?
            1. Alf
              Alf 8 July 2020 20: 38
              0
              Quote: Aviator_
              And what does creatine look like - maybe it really is?

              This "cannot be", it is an objective reality. If this comrade is even banned on the Altist IMMEDIATELY, it says something.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 7 July 2020 18: 53
      +2
      Quote: HHrist
      It turns out that the Universe of scoops Japan surrendered not after the atomic bombings of the Americans, but as a result of the defeat by the USSR.

      For the Japanese themselves in August 1945 the atomic bombing and the entry of the USSR into the war were events of the same order of "trash".
      August 7. Reports say that the enemy used a completely new type of bomb yesterday. We learned that this bomb is incredibly more powerful than any conventional weapon. Yesterday morning she was dropped on Hiroshima. So far, little details are known about the new bomb, but we already know about its terrible impact, human suffering, the death of a mass of people, the destruction of buildings. All this is beyond description. That’s all we know so far.

      August 10. A new bomb was dropped on Japan yesterday. This time the goal was the city of Nagasaki. Another terrible news came upon us, like a flash of lightning in a clear sky. Russia declared war and invaded Manchuria and North Korea. We heard that huge land armies and entire hordes of bombers were thrown into battle.
      This meant the last blow to Japan, which already froze in anticipation of an imminent invasion of the Americans.
      © War Diary of Horikoshi Jiro

      The neutral USSR gave at least some hope for other options for the outcome of the war besides the unconditional adoption of the Potsdam Declaration. The USSR, at war with Japan, meant that there was only one option.
      No wonder the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan was hobbling the USSR in terms of the possibility of mediation between Japan and the Allies right up to August 1945.
      1. Hhrist
        Hhrist 7 July 2020 19: 01
        -5
        Quote: Alexey RA
        For the Japanese themselves in August 1945, the atomic bombing and the entry of the USSR into the war were events of the same order.

        Funny.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Horikoshi Jiro's War Diary

        I have not seen such inscriptions on different fences.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        The neutral USSR gave at least some hope for other options for the outcome of the war

        The Japanese did not have any chance of success after September 1940, except for surrender. The situation became very poor (and among the Germans, too, for the company) in March 1941.
        The Japanese chose a different path, death in battle (like the Germans, only in profile). What happened in 1945
        Only in the case of Japan did everything go without the USSR. ABSOLUTELY without the USSR.
        Even the signing of the peace treaty did without the USSR.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        The USSR, at war with Japan, meant that there was only one option.

        The USSR for Japan did not mean anything at all. Trifle pot-bellied.
        You might think that cretins were in power in Japan. And they did not understand where the Red Army would go after the fall of Germany.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        No wonder the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan was hobbling the USSR in terms of the possibility of mediation between Japan and the Allies right up to August 1945.

        Yes, Japan did not want to die. But I had to.
        But the USSR has absolutely nothing to do with it.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 7 July 2020 19: 30
          +1
          Quote: HHrist
          I have not seen such inscriptions on different fences.

          I am sincerely glad for your ability to choose information sources.
          Nevertheless, the diary of the designer "Zero" is still indicative.
          Quote: HHrist
          The Japanese did not have any chance of success after September 1940, except for surrender. The situation became very poor (and among the Germans, too, for the company) in March 1941.
          The Japanese chose a different path, death in battle (like the Germans, only in profile). What happened in 1945

          Do not confuse the pitiful objective reality with the fictional world of the Japanese leadership. The only sane person in whom was perhaps Tenno (the second sane in 1943 made a close acquaintance with the "lightning").
          The Japanese Foreign Ministry since 1943 was 146% sure that the USSR was about to agree to mediation in negotiations on peace with the Allies - they simply did not offer much for it. And the fleet did not lag behind:
          ... fleet representatives suggested that during negotiations with the Soviet Union the issue of supplies by the Soviet Union of military materials, in particular oil, be discussed. Insisting on this proposal, the fleet command believed that to achieve the goal would be difficult. Nevertheless, Togo considered it possible to draw the Soviet Union to the side of Japan, despite the general military situation and the possible strengthening of cooperation between the allies and the Soviet Union as a result of the Yalta Conference. He added that the situation in Japan now requires urgent action to end the war.
          © Hattori Takushiro. Japan in the war of 1941-1945
          In the yard - May 11-14, 1945. And the fleet and the Foreign Ministry are going to agree with the USSR on fuel supplies.
          1. Hhrist
            Hhrist 7 July 2020 20: 05
            -4
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Nevertheless, the diary of the designer "Zero" is still indicative.

            This is nobody.
            And his name is nothing.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            He was 146% sure that the USSR was about to agree to mediation in negotiations on peace with the Allies - they simply didn’t offer him much for it.

            The USSR was also nobody.
            And they called him nothing.
            This would have to be understood once already. And go down from the red clouds to the ground.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            In the yard - May 11-14, 1945. And the fleet and the Foreign Ministry are going to agree with the USSR on fuel supplies.

            If they had agreed (it would never have happened, Dzhugashvilya was a scumbag, not a fool, but purely theoretically possible), then the next nuclear bombing would have been Moscow.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 7 July 2020 20: 11
              +2
              Quote: HHrist
              The USSR was also nobody.
              And they called him nothing.
              This would have to be understood once already. And go down from the red clouds to the ground.

              You stubbornly continue to confuse objective reality and the reality in which the Japanese leadership of the 1945 model lived. For them, the USSR was a power that could save Japan from the shame of unconditional surrender.
              How this correlated with reality is another question. smile But the Japanese leadership thought so. And so August 09, 1945 was a shock for them - happy break patterns.
              Quote: HHrist
              If they had agreed (it would never have happened, Dzhugashvilya was, and not a fool, but one can theoretically assume), then the next nuclear bombing would already be in Moscow.

              So I gave this example to show how far from reality were those who made decisions in Japan. After all, none of those who attended the meeting asked a simple question - why does the USSR, which is still generously spooning the American Lend-Lease, need to quarrel with the United States?
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 7 July 2020 19: 33
          +1
          Quote: HHrist
          The USSR for Japan did not mean anything at all. Trifle pot-bellied.
          You might think that cretins were in power in Japan. And they did not understand where the Red Army would go after the fall of Germany.

          You will not believe... smile
          According to Prime Minister Suzuki, the opinion of Togo that it is not too late to achieve a benevolent attitude of the Soviet Union may be quite justified and it would be unreasonable to abandon any attempt to use the Soviet Union in the interests of Japan; Moreover, negotiations with the Soviet Union should also have as their goal the achievement of mediation by the Soviet Union for the conclusion of a common peace with the Allies. This statement of Suzuki coincided with the opinion of Togo; representatives of the military command did not particularly object to him.
          Then a general agreement was reached regarding rather significant concessions to the Soviet Union in exchange for the resumption of friendly relations with it.

          In order to find ways to negotiate with the USSR, Togo decided, first of all, with the help of informal preliminary meetings, to find out the position of the Soviet Union, in particular to find out to what extent it can be used to achieve our goals, and at the same time to establish how the Soviet Union can be attracted to the implementation of our plans. For these meetings, the former prime minister, the former foreign minister and the former ambassador to the USSR, Hirota Koki, were appointed.
          (...)
          Upon returning to his homeland on May 10, the former Swedish envoy to Japan visited the Japanese envoy Okamoto to discuss the mediation of the Soviet Union in peace. Okamoto turned to Tokyo for instructions, but Togo's Foreign Minister did not respond to the envoy's request for a long time. At that time, the main course had already been adopted, which provided for the involvement of the Soviet Union for mediation. From the telegram of the envoy Okamoto, it became clear that Sweden acts only as a simple intermediary in the conclusion of peace by Japan. Therefore, Togo decided to abandon other paths and enlist the mediation of the USSR.

          And here is the main policy of the Japanese leadership, adopted on June 08, 1945:
          The position of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union seeks to carry out post-war events in Europe in accordance with the current situation and restore the country's national economy; at the same time, he continues to maintain an independent position on the war in East Asia and expects, under favorable conditions, to expand his influence in Manchuria and China.
          Through successive measures, the Soviet Union is preparing the way through diplomacy in order to be able, if necessary, to oppose the empire; at the same time, he is stepping up military preparations in the Far East. There is a high probability that the Soviet Union will take military action against Japan when the situation is most favorable for this. Considering factors such as the time of the landing of American troops on the territory of Japan itself or in Central and Northern China, the weather conditions for the operation in Northern Manchuria, the degree of concentration of Soviet troops in the Far East, the Soviet Union may enter the war against Japan after the summer or autumn period.
          It is possible that the Soviet Union, supporting the United States in the implementation of their intentions, at the same time will require us to conclude peace with the United States, with a view to achieving our own goals.
          © Hattori Takushiro. Japan in the war of 1941-1945
          1. Hhrist
            Hhrist 7 July 2020 20: 08
            -3
            You read less any pseudo-historical nonsense.
            This will only benefit you.
            But memoirs are not worth reading at all.
            This is a fantasy genre in its purest form.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 7 July 2020 20: 16
              +1
              Well, yes, how did the head of the operations department of the General Staff of IJA and the secretary Tojo know - what was said at the top and what decisions were made there. smile
  • Lebed
    Lebed 9 July 2020 05: 54
    13
    All the same, the Headquarters acted correctly: it did not allow war on two fronts.
  • Soko
    Soko 10 July 2020 16: 24
    12
    In general, it is not clear what Japan hoped for in the 45th?