Military Review

The development of a supersonic civilian aircraft has begun at the Zhukovsky Institute

103

The research center "Institute named after N. E. Zhukovsky" began work on the creation of a new domestic supersonic aircraft intended for civil aviation. According to an agreement between the Center and the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation, development is planned to be completed by the end of 2021.


This was reported by the SIC press service.

The creation of this domestic supersonic civil aircraft may be the beginning for the emergence of a fundamentally new type of aviation.

The General Director of the Zhukovsky Institute Andrei Dutov said that the estimated speed of the aircraft will be approximately 2 thousand kilometers per hour. There is no point in making a lower-speed aircraft, since it will not be able to compete with its subsonic counterparts.

In the process of developing an aircraft, it will be necessary to effectively solve the problems of attenuating sound shock and reducing noise. The developers also have the task of lowering harmful emissions, increasing the fuel efficiency of engines and ensuring high reliability of all systems and elements.

And although even the approximate cost of the aircraft is still unknown, it will certainly be higher than previous subsonic models, as well as the cost of the flight.
Photos used:
https://www.nrczh.ru/
103 comments
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  1. credo
    credo 22 June 2020 11: 48
    +6
    This is certainly good - you need to move forward, but have you already resolved the issue with the engine for this product ?.
    1. Andrey Ostroushko
      Andrey Ostroushko 22 June 2020 13: 26
      +1
      RIA Novosti May 12, 2020 The engine parameters for the Russian supersonic airliner are determined. A probable set of parameters and engine shape has been formed for a promising supersonic civil aircraft (GHS), the Director General of the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute (TsAGI) Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Sciences Kirill Sypalo said in an interview with RIA Novosti.
      Image is available to RIA Novosti. https://ria.ru/20200512/1571297177.html
    2. orionvitt
      orionvitt 22 June 2020 15: 02
      18
      Quote: credo
      This is certainly good - you need to move forward

      Nonsense is all. Concepts have been worked out for a long time, since the 60s. They are embodied in metal and even managed to operate. But the question is, since then, technologically nothing has changed fundamentally. Very expensive and complicated. This is good for the military, they scored for profitability. But in civil aviation, such numbers do not work.
      1. lis-ik
        lis-ik 22 June 2020 15: 47
        +2
        Quote: orionvitt
        Quote: credo
        This is certainly good - you need to move forward

        Nonsense is all. Concepts have been worked out for a long time, since the 60s. They are embodied in metal and even managed to operate. But the question is, since then, technologically nothing has changed fundamentally. Very expensive and complicated. This is good for the military, they scored for profitability. But in civil aviation, such numbers do not work.

        So, most likely, it won’t reach production, they see that they are sawing everything, moreover, insolently, they also decided to keep up with the trend.
      2. ancient
        ancient 22 June 2020 16: 25
        +3
        Quote: orionvitt
        Nonsense is all. Concepts have been worked out for a long time, since the 60s. They are embodied in metal and even managed to operate.

        I totally agree ... "non-believers" and " fellow "I invite you to watch .." cinema "... everything is chewed in detail there ..." who, where, who and how " wink
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 23 June 2020 08: 26
          0
          there is also a video about the new experimental cars of the Americans.
      3. Vadim237
        Vadim237 22 June 2020 17: 40
        +3
        A lot of things have changed, from design systems to materials.
        1. orionvitt
          orionvitt 22 June 2020 18: 41
          +1
          Quote: Vadim237
          A lot of things have changed, from design systems to materials.

          These are trifles. New materials, design methods and more, and so what? Since the 50s of the last century, basically nothing has changed. Same. Glider, plus a jet engine. ALL. It is clear, more economical, more convenient safer, But did the planes fly higher and faster? . By the way, about design systems. On paper, a large jet plane, from the project justification to the finished product, took two to three years. Now with computers, about ten or fifteen. Where is the progress?
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 23 June 2020 05: 20
            +3
            Quote: orionvitt
            Same. Glider, plus a jet engine. ALL.
            Not quite everything.
            Glider - now "lick" more thoroughly.
            Engine - + materials.
            Avionics ... - almost everything has changed here: hydraulics are gradually abandoned, for example, a computer allows you to use a glider, which is better in fuel efficiency, flight modes, but impossible for direct (manual) control.

            Quote: orionvitt
            But did the planes fly higher and faster?
            Passenger? Not. Comfort, fuel efficiency, traffic density have grown, management has been simplified ... just the speed class has not changed.

            Quote: orionvitt
            On paper, a large jet plane, from the project justification to the finished product, took two to three years.
            AND? And what is the ratio of the people? 10/20/30: 1? 2D drawing, by the way, is faster to draw "by hand".

            Quote: orionvitt
            Now with computers, about ten or fifteen.
            Now the systems are more complicated.

            Quote: orionvitt
            Where is the progress?
            Almost everywhere.
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 23 June 2020 09: 35
            -1
            These are not trifles - this is the basis and what kind of large jets these are, which from the project justification to the finished product took 2–3 years to make a Granite rocket with us, you have been developing the Granite rocket for almost 15 years and you have old planes like the MiG 21 and civilian aircraft with modern fighters and airliners compare between them a huge chasm in manufacturability the technique is much more complicated and different gliders with engines compare Tu 144 and the concord with this
            do they have a lot of the same?
          3. Pathos
            Pathos 23 June 2020 14: 50
            +2
            Quite true and so in all sectors. Previously, in the accounting department, there was one calculator, a woman, Dusya, with ordinary accounts and the salary went down to a penny. Now there is a whole department of plastered monkeys all in gold with each komputar you look at the calculator and there are only jambs that they don’t even know how to turn on the calculator laughing
      4. Obi-Wan Kenobi
        Obi-Wan Kenobi 23 June 2020 06: 12
        -2
        This is good for the military, they scored for profitability. But in civil aviation, such numbers do not work.

        This plane is created for the oligarchs. The nullified president himself said that it would be a small supersonic business jet.
        We are not talking about you. Walking is good too.
    3. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 22 June 2020 16: 33
      -6
      Quote: credo
      This is of course good - you need to move forward,

      Question one: ticket price. Or is it again not for us?
    4. demo
      demo 22 June 2020 21: 58
      0
      Not yet.
      It will be like with another popular model - the first stage engines.
      And then it all starts.
  2. Grazdanin
    Grazdanin 22 June 2020 11: 48
    +7
    What for? In Russia, there is no conventional aviation, Tupolev finished off already, they want to make another wunderwafel that nobody needs.
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 22 June 2020 12: 09
      10 th
      Boyars want to fly faster, you understand.
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 22 June 2020 12: 44
        -8
        Quote: Pessimist22
        Boyars want to fly faster, you understand.

        Boyars already fly on the Bombardier Global Express 5000
      2. Zeev zeev
        Zeev zeev 22 June 2020 13: 20
        +8
        Boyars on business can communicate with Skype. Personal meetings in business have long been out of fashion
    2. kapitan281271
      kapitan281271 22 June 2020 13: 47
      -1
      Quote: Grazdanin
      What for? In Russia, there is no conventional aviation, Tupolev finished off already, they want to make another wunderwafel that nobody needs.

      Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye ,,,,,,, I work in one "funny" state company (we will not name which one), recently passed one of the system objects, worth several yards of rubles ,,,,,,,,,, why no one knows, the workload of the existing ones is less than 65% ,,,,,,,, everyone giggles quietly and twists the weight, BUT THE MAIN TASK IS FULFILLED BABLO HAS BEEN MASTERED, and I don’t think about it somewhere, closer to hot offshores.
      1. ancient
        ancient 22 June 2020 16: 53
        0
        Quote: kapitan281271
        Not in the eyebrow but in the eye

        So "SO" happens not only in your company, but in all .. "BAALSH" such companies. wassat
        The scheme is insanely simple (the main thing is that everything would work .. "approximate).
        There is an order, "money" is allocated (win ... the right people). these people are hiring contractors, and they are subcontractors, and those are hired by sub, sub contractors and ... "everyone gets involved" wink
        The cost of the "order" has tripled fellow (the calf turned out to be baalsha .... enough for everyone laughing ) ... they built everything ... and ... "everyone (approximate of course)" is happy bully
        1. kapitan281271
          kapitan281271 23 June 2020 08: 38
          +1
          Unfortunately, one cannot do without the existence of such companies, (or fortunately), but if there is political will, with the right personnel policy, this can be avoided, in our company there are a lot of places where you need to spend money, and these same "guys" would earn , for themselves the same money, but the benefit would be present, and in view of their one hundred percent lack of competence, they have enough brains only for such a primitive. And why, I wrote about this in the light of this article, everything is simple, it seems that it is a good thing, we are mastering new technologies, and it doesn’t matter what BUSINESS JETS are, or full-fledged liners, but knowing our worked out system it will turn into a regular cut.
          1. ancient
            ancient 23 June 2020 11: 36
            0
            Quote: kapitan281271
            but knowing our proven system, this will turn into a regular cut.

            So, I for sho .... wink
  3. Mooh
    Mooh 22 June 2020 11: 49
    -2
    According to an agreement between the Center and the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation, development is planned to be completed by the end of 2021.
    Is it like under Stalin or something?
    Something is suspiciously fast. For some reason I do not believe in this news.
    1. Boratsagdiev
      Boratsagdiev 22 June 2020 13: 25
      -3
      The usual type "R&D".
      The layout will do and study with drawings.
      If you have your own idea, then it’s like throwing dust in the eyes (like doing something).
      The order ... is more serious.
    2. ancient
      ancient 22 June 2020 16: 55
      -2
      Quote: MooH
      Something is suspiciously fast.

      So you have to quickly "master" ... yes to the next ... "start" .... time, as they say .... money wassat
    3. Piramidon
      Piramidon 22 June 2020 19: 59
      +1
      Quote: MooH
      Something is suspiciously fast.

      So what. They will draw a picture in three projections for eleven lyamas and calm down on this. To develop does not mean to build, test and launch into a series
  4. NEXUS
    NEXUS 22 June 2020 11: 49
    16
    To date, supersonic aviation can only be represented in the form of jets for 20-30 people. And that is only in the segment of business corporations. What is more, unprofitable.
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 22 June 2020 12: 13
      -5
      There is such an assumption, but no one is in a hurry to do them, so far everything on paper has not formed a long line for them.
    2. Zeev zeev
      Zeev zeev 22 June 2020 13: 22
      +3
      I fundamentally disagree. Long-haul flights can easily be converted to supersonic.
      1. ancient
        ancient 22 June 2020 17: 00
        -1
        Quote: ZeevZeev
        Long-haul flights can easily be converted to supersonic.

        Already tried crying .. for two whole years .. "operated and transported ... 3 people wassat
      2. surok1
        surok1 22 June 2020 17: 50
        0
        Or maybe an airship is better. Everyone walks by, although cost-effective.
    3. ancient
      ancient 22 June 2020 16: 58
      0
      Quote: NEXUS
      What is more is unprofitable.

      In principle, and that ... what is "smaller" .. all the more not cost-effective, and we do not have ... small "supersonic" aircraft engines ... only this way ... if you fly to the neighboring province ... so in general ... expensive ... although ... the rich have their quirks wink
  5. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 22 June 2020 11: 49
    +9
    Hmm ... with the departure from Tu-144 Aviation and Concord, this niche is completely Free!
    Good luck to the developers! good
    1. businessv
      businessv 22 June 2020 12: 06
      +9
      Quote: Hunter 2
      Hmm ... with the departure from Tu-144 Aviation and Concord, this niche is completely Free!
      I wonder why no one bothered with the question, for whatever reason, this niche has become free ?! Once the money has already been spent on development, which was successfully brought to the end, to whom and why would it be needed again?
      1. Svetlana
        Svetlana 22 June 2020 12: 49
        +9
        I wonder why no one bothered with the question, for whatever reason, this niche has become free?
        Profitability, cost of tickets.
        The race for speed between passenger aircraft ended by the seventies of the last century, when managers realized that an ordinary passenger could stay in flight and an hour or two more if only the ticket was cheaper. And supersonic planes consume a lot of fuel and tickets for them cannot be cheap.
      2. bayard
        bayard 22 June 2020 15: 50
        +6
        In those days, supersonic flight could only be carried out in afterburner mode, hence the monstrous fuel consumption. Yes, and then available aircraft engines did not shine with efficiency. Plus, the complexity and high cost of the aircraft itself and its maintenance.
        Now the issue of cruising supersonic in afterburner mode for combat aircraft is resolved. New engines appeared - quite economical. Hence new attempts.
        It will still not be an airplane for everyone - the ticket price will still be 2 - 4 times more expensive. Rather, it's a business jet. And for the prototype of engines can be taken "Products-30" from the Su-57 (2nd stage). Four of these engines will be able to carry an aircraft with a takeoff weight of 120 - 140 tons. In non-afterburner mode. With 11 - 12 tons of thrust each.
        1. ancient
          ancient 22 June 2020 17: 25
          +2
          Quote: bayard
          New engines appeared - quite economical

          The concept - quite economical for civil aviation is by no means acceptable wink
          And the aerodynamic configuration of the aircraft, what should be the weight, to ensure acceptable thrust-to-weight ratios, to ensure the afterburner wink "super cruise"
          1. bayard
            bayard 22 June 2020 23: 21
            +3
            hi I welcome you, I’m sorry I don’t know the name, but I remember our previous correspondence.
            When the first Tu-160 assembled from the ground was rolled out and shown to Putin, and he pushed the speech about "it would be nice to kick a passenger supersonic" ... a bunch of fotojads appeared on the Tu-160 in the passenger version lol and even pictures from the Tupolev Design Bureau on the topic "supersonic business jet on two NK-32M in non-afterburner version" ... I'm certainly not a supporter of these fantasies and on one completely non-core resource, then I burst out with a devastating comment on this work, proposing a concept. .. A glider based on the proven Tu-144 on a reduced scale, take-off weight of about 130 - 140 tons. On 4 engines from the Su-57 of the 2nd stage "Product-30", the maximum non-afterburner thrust of which is declared 11 tons (in a sparing temperature conditions on the blades). In total, the take-off thrust will be 44 tons, like the Tu-22M2, and therefore, in the indicated take-off weight, you can get an airliner with a speed of about 2M, with a capacity of 20-30 people and a range of 7-000 km. Calculation by ratios.
            Such a layout (4 "Products-30" in two engine nacelles) is more advantageous in terms of weight and traction characteristics compared to two NK-32 (in non-afterburner mode) - in terms of thrust 44 tons versus 32 tons, in terms of dead weight of engines 1,2 \ 1,25 tons x 4 = maximum 5 tons, against a minimum of 3 x 2 = 6 tons for the Tupolevites. That is, the gain is both in the engines' own weight and in the total thrust. In terms of fuel efficiency, most likely, there will also be some gain.
            I don’t want to repeat all my previous outpourings, but the funniest thing is, the next day I received a photo with a gold ring with the seal of the Russian coat of arms and the signature “Are you cool”, and a few days later, the deputy president of the UAC in an interview literally in my words ... smashed the concept of the Tupolev Design Bureau and said that "we will work on the supersonic, but it will be a different concept."
            I don’t know what is being done there in this regard, but I hope that something sensible, although obviously not for the people, is super-personal in the business version, it is for the bourgeoisie and the administration, as well as Arab sheikhs to the collection ...
            What about
            Quote: ancient
            The concept - quite economical for civil aviation is by no means acceptable

            I meant that the range on a "super cruise" can be obtained for such an aircraft in 7000 - 8000 km. smile On less efficient engines, the range would be less ... like the Tu-144.

            Those who book such planes will not put them on commercial flights, these are pokatushki for VIP-persons.

            By the way, the use of "Products-30" for these pepelats will increase its serial production and demand, and therefore the payback of this project (engine).
            I would put it on the new version of the Su-34, increase the length of the airframe, wing area, thereby increasing the combat radius and payload - a great swallow for the MRA would turn out as a carrier of a promising air-based Zircon. wink
            How do you like this offer?
            Again, the engine is new when it comes to ... repeat
      3. ancient
        ancient 22 June 2020 17: 11
        +1
        Quote: businessv
        Once money has already been spent on development, which was safely brought to the end, who and why could this be needed a second time?

        Then Nikita Sergeevich .... the "head flew" ... well, as always, Andrei Nikolaevich took up .. "the prestige of the country is faster and higher than all combined."
        But then it really was an idea, and the country was completely different, although there were more mature opponents, but .. Tupolev said - .. "lumin" and ... rushed.
        The main thing is to tear off the first pneumatics from the concrete, and then ..... for the first time or somethingwink
        But now who has decided on such a "development" in .. "design", .. it is clear that .. "the elder wanted and voiced", but ... there is a limit to everything repeat
        1. bayard
          bayard 22 June 2020 23: 33
          +1
          Quote: ancient
          .. it is clear that .. "the elder wanted and sounded", but ... there is a limit to everything

          And now, too, prestige, but already of the ruling class - for oneself dear, like "Aurus", only with wings.
          ... Khrushchev, by the way, also ordered a MiG-25 for himself in a two-seater version (for evacuation from Moscow in the case of TMV ... and a chair so that with ... a toilet ... you never know what it’s worth for overloads ... lol And this, by the way, is not a joke, but the memory of the chief designer.
          And the young designer, who was instructed to design this chair with a toilet bowl ... quit ... and generally went into art ... as if not in "Yeralash" ... lol
          1. ancient
            ancient 23 June 2020 11: 46
            +1
            Quote: bayard
            And now, too, prestige, but already of the ruling class - for oneself dear, like "Aurus", only with wings.

            I'll take this phrase for .. "weapons" (with your permission) .. well, I liked it very much good drinks
            Quote: bayard
            And this, by the way, is not a joke, but the memory of the chief designer.

            And who exactly is Mikoyan or his followers — Brunov-Gurevich or Matyuk? wink
            1. bayard
              bayard 23 June 2020 14: 02
              +1
              I don’t remember exactly, one of the followers, but who took the most active ... I gave an interview in some program or film. But that young designer, who was entrusted with the chair for Khrushch, founded "Yeralash", also recalled this in some program ... perhaps "While everyone is at home" lol . By the way, before this (toilet) he had time to design a ladder-ladder for Mi-8 at the internship, for the convenience of landing ... but the toilet was not for the head of state ... he could. And others could not. They shot Nikita Sergeevich.
      4. Vadim237
        Vadim237 22 June 2020 17: 46
        0
        Tu 144 and Concord were created more than 50 years ago when intercontinental passenger airliners began their life the same Boeing 747
  6. fn34440
    fn34440 22 June 2020 11: 49
    28 th
    The Zhukovsky Institute is an archaic institution of the times of the USSR. The average age of designers is 60-70 years.
    They will suck the money for design from the state budget, stretch the terms and all "kindergarten" will be dumped into retirement, rubbing their hands and savings books.
    1. businessv
      businessv 22 June 2020 12: 48
      +9
      Quote: fn34440
      The Zhukovsky Institute is an archaic institution of the times of the USSR. The average age of designers is 60-70 years.
      You should at least read what it is for a start, then you would post such stupidity, sorry for directness!
      The National Research Center "Institute named after N.Ye. Zhukovsky" was created in accordance with Federal Law No. 326-FZ of November 4, 2014 for the organization and implementation of research work, the development of new technologies in priority areas of development of aviation technology, accelerated implementation of scientific development and use of scientific achievements in the interests of the domestic economy.The center includes the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute named after Professor N.E. Zhukovsky (TsAGI), the Central Institute of Aviation Motors named after P.I.Baranov (CIAM), the State Research Institute of Aviation Systems ( GosNIIAS), the S.A. Chaplygin Siberian Aviation Research Institute (SibNIA) and the State Treasury Scientific Testing Range of Aviation Systems (GKNIPAS).
      1. fn34440
        fn34440 22 June 2020 13: 02
        16 th
        "" "" "National Research Center" N.Ye. Zhukovsky ”was created in accordance with Federal Law No. 326-FZ of November 4, 2014 for the organization and implementation of research work, the development of new technologies in priority areas of aviation technology development, accelerated implementation of scientific developments in production and the use of scientific achievements in the interests of the domestic economy. The center includes the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute named after Professor N.E. Zhukovsky (TsAGI), Central Institute of Aviation Motors named after P.I. Baranov (TsIAM), State Research Institute of Aviation Systems (GosNIIAS), Siberian Research Institute of Aviation named after S.A. Chaplygin (SibNIA) and the State Treasury Scientific Testing Ground of Aviation Systems (GkNIPAS).
        BIRD VISIBLE BY LITTER.
        Only since 2014 no flights are visible. SIX years, not one promising military or civilian aircraft, all the achievements, from SU to MIG-XNUMX years old.
        This is how the police were renamed the police, and then they sawed the state budget many times, and the essence remained the same, if not worse.
        1. orionvitt
          orionvitt 22 June 2020 15: 09
          10
          The Zhukovsky Institute is not required to develop specific types of aircraft. He is engaged fundamental research in the field of aviation. You first read the history of the issue, so as not to write nonsense.
        2. businessv
          businessv 22 June 2020 15: 35
          +4
          Quote: fn34440
          This is how the police were renamed the police, and then they sawed the state budget many times, and the essence remained the same, if not worse.
          He asked - do not write nonsense, first ask if you think so, as it really is ?!
          The police are included and directly subordinate to the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia, Rosguard - only to the president; Functions and tasks performed. The task of the police is to maintain order within the country and protect the interests of citizens. The task of the Russian Guard is to protect the integrity and inviolability of the state as a whole.
          What flights should this RESEARCH CENTER provide? His tasks:
          The plan provides for the organization and implementation of research and development, the development of an experimental base and human resources to ensure the continuous reproduction of a leading scientific and technical reserve as a prerequisite for the global competitiveness of domestic aircraft industry.
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 22 June 2020 16: 50
        +7
        All the centers you listed did a pretty good job of their tasks, but in 2014 this add-on was created over them for Dutov, who had previously proved himself to be nothing.
        1. KVIRTU
          KVIRTU 22 June 2020 20: 25
          0
          The Ministry of Industry and Trade spends state money to order two-year theoretical work on a supersonic business jet .... its concepts ... to whom?
          The Institute is joyfully taken, sideways approved until the age of 30 and funded by the program, which is based on regional and main domestic aircraft. Isn't it a mess? Here would be those counterintelligence from the Kursk region ...
  7. Runoway
    Runoway 22 June 2020 11: 52
    -9
    With the MS-21 oops, with the dry superjet again oops, the CR-929 doesn’t exist without China.
    And here is the development of supersonic, it’s us right away, that we instantly, in the style of Skolkovo and Chubais-nanotechnology
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ 22 June 2020 12: 05
      10
      Quote: Runoway
      MS-21 oops

      what oops?
      Quote: Runoway
      dry superjack oops again

      what oops?
      Quote: Runoway
      CR-929 without China in any way

      sure! The Russian market is not so large, and the Chinese market opens ONLY for joint production aviation !!!!
    2. ultra
      ultra 22 June 2020 13: 25
      +7
      Quote: Runoway
      CR-929 without China in any way

      Exactly the opposite.
  8. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 22 June 2020 11: 53
    +1
    great news ... it seems to me that a supersonic passenger plane has its own niche, it will be very popular ... especially as a long-haul ... green street for such projects and bonuses is always the development of technology ...
    1. Klingon
      Klingon 22 June 2020 12: 03
      11 th
      yeah, and the passengers will be oil and gas magnets and magnetized to the environment of the great Pu
      1. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 22 June 2020 15: 45
        +3
        So let the big business fly on domestic equipment. And rides on the Aurus.
  9. Klingon
    Klingon 22 June 2020 12: 00
    12 th
    Quote: Grazdanin
    What for? In Russia, there is no conventional aviation, Tupolev finished off already, they want to make another wunderwafel that nobody needs.

    so it will be a letak, not for ordinary citizens, but for the Chubiks, Rogulkins, Millers and others like them. Well, I drank babos for a start wassat
  10. Pavel73
    Pavel73 22 June 2020 12: 02
    -8
    Strikingly similar situations with Concord, Tu-144, Shuttle and Buran didn’t teach anyone anything ... Western miraclesA technicians lived longer than ours, because we were convinced of their futility because of our poverty.
  11. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 22 June 2020 12: 05
    -8
    Saw cut. There are no engines for such an aircraft even in the draft design. What is there to "develop"?
  12. Ironcity
    Ironcity 22 June 2020 12: 20
    -6
    Or maybe they should try to make just a plane, for starters? The usual modern, competitive, which will be purchased and operated by airlines because it is profitable.
    1. Grits
      Grits 22 June 2020 14: 16
      +2
      Quote: Ironcity
      Or maybe they should try to make just a plane, for starters? The usual modern, competitive, which will be purchased and operated by airlines because it is profitable.

      At least to rivet thousands of analogs of cheap "maize" for small aircraft. Which dies safely without simple and cheap planes.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 22 June 2020 17: 50
        +1
        Better instead of these new maize - a high-speed passenger helicopter to make the equipment more universal in basing.
    2. KVIRTU
      KVIRTU 22 June 2020 20: 32
      +1
      He wrote above, there is no need to try, it is necessary to do, their work is scheduled for up to 30 years, regional, main, and this is hackwork.
  13. Undecim
    Undecim 22 June 2020 12: 35
    +6
    Currently in the world in the development of about a dozen projects. And almost all of them, except for the 55-seat Boom Overture, belong to the Supersonic business jet class for a dozen passengers.
    By the way, in Russia, the Supersonic business jet developed jointly with the USA Sukhoi (Sukhoi-Gulf Stream S-21, covered by sanctions) and Tupolev Tu-444 (closed due to lack of interest and funding).
    Therefore, the next "mega-news" raises only questions.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 22 June 2020 13: 19
      +3
      I wonder what the minusers wanted to say with their minuses? Refute information? Or is it the feces of turbopatriots?
  14. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 22 June 2020 12: 36
    +1
    What our institutes and design bureaus will not do, if only not to develop NORMAL passenger planes ?! Apparently, those people from Boeing, Airbus and others who were interested in distributing bribes to our rulers reminded me of themselves. There is a crisis in aviation, you can squeeze your planes into the world market ... In general, those people who have already taken bribes have brought more money, and at the same time they have spanked dirt on the face. So that they stopped fooling around, and occupied their restless aircraft manufacturers with another stupidity.
    It is vilely all ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 June 2020 17: 52
      0
      Already there is an MS 21 IL-114 Superjet upgrade - what other normal aircraft do you need for a citizen?
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 22 June 2020 17: 57
        +1
        MS 21 is not (by the way, what will it EVER have when using domestic parts?). Superjet and IL 114 are not and cannot be in demand either on the world or in our market, as they are carefully made completely unnecessary and uncompetitive. Alas. We do not have a single passenger plane. But there are some representatives in Malta and the Maldives. Equally, right?
        1. Alexander Seklitsky
          Alexander Seklitsky 23 June 2020 02: 53
          +2
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Superjet and IL 114 do not use and cannot be in demand neither on the world, nor in our market,

          We still fly 24 on regional lines, as there is nothing to replace, and you say there is no demand. There is a demand for turboprop. The same ATRs can be replaced. The Superjet also flies well. The only cant with after-sales service of engines. So this is not an indication that the plane is bad.
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 23 June 2020 08: 42
            -1
            Neither Superjet nor IL can be allowed into the regions - they are like a starship. There is no demand for supersound, and there cannot be one, with the exception of a dozen business jets, and it’s not certain, super-rich people are economical. And all this is known to all. And all this is shameful, shameful, disgusting ... and this is the reality of our lives. We surrendered, made a mistake, voluntarily left the road into the mud and blow bubbles there. For a bribe. Ugh...
            1. Alexander Seklitsky
              Alexander Seklitsky 23 June 2020 19: 13
              0
              Quote: Mikhail3
              Neither Superjet nor IL can be allowed into the regions

              Flight radar to help. Jets have been flying for more than one year, making regional flights. And bought by airlines. No worse than the embraer.
              Quote: Mikhail3
              they stand like a spaceship.

              the cost of the embraer 190 is about 50 million; the new 190 E2 is 60 million. But the dry costs 40 million.
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 23 June 2020 09: 44
          0
          MC 21 was already the sixth to raise test flights, a firm order for 280 aircraft is ongoing; PD 14 is available; bench tests have been completed; most of this aircraft from domestic spare parts KRET certified all avionics. The suprajet is not in demand - then the question is what they continue to produce and again, if Il 114 is not in demand then what the hell is its production being set up - if you think that they are alone in the Ministry of Industry and Trade and you are smarter than them, you are very mistaken - and why are you here some summer cottages it is not clear who brought in Malta and the Maldives?
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 23 June 2020 12: 14
            0
            Why not 28 thousand? How beautiful it would look! Or 280 thousand, generally great! There is a "firm order" for an unreleased aircraft and it is not known when it will leave. Do you write for a kindergarten? And then I'm an adult already ...
            "Most" is which? ten%? 10? Scared to think all 20? And then about the Superjet, too, wrote about the "most", until the USA with a laugh did not indicate the place. Near a famous plumbing fixture, yeah.
            On this pungently smelling good, "production is being adjusted" because there is government funding that can be spent. Mostly on myself. There are still some witty personalities in the Ministry of Industry and Trade! Academics through one! They only run to the Chechen for the next "scientific title"! But their mind is very highly directed. Directed to steal more. Nothing else, our Ministry of Industry and Trade, like all other institutions, is absolutely not interested in what the population of our wonderfully prosperous country is well informed about, and not from the media or the network, but from personal experience. Can you imagine? It makes no sense to lie. The people of that, became very smart. Trouble-ah ...
          2. oprovergatel
            oprovergatel 23 June 2020 15: 56
            +1
            What do you prove to him? He is stubbornly tight.

            In the same meadow, bees see flowers and future nectar, and flies are heaps of shit and garbage.

            I think it’s obvious what category your opponent belongs to.
  15. Avior
    Avior 22 June 2020 12: 37
    -2
    Meaningless craft.
    It is obvious to everyone that it will never be realized.
    Supersonic passenger has a potentially very narrow niche in the form of business jets.
  16. RUSS
    RUSS 22 June 2020 12: 45
    -6
    Things won’t go beyond the layout
  17. askort154
    askort154 22 June 2020 12: 46
    +4
    And although even the approximate cost of the aircraft is still unknown, it will certainly be higher than previous subsonic models, as well as the cost of the flight.

    "Durko dumkoy gets richer", and the rich row everything for himself. Who, and most importantly why, needs a new pair about a supersonic passenger plane ?! In the last century, they have already tested everything, having arranged a race to see who is the first. As a result, money down the drain and human casualties. Soon the programs: "Concorde" and TU-144 were closed irrevocably, convinced of the utopia of the project. What's the point - to fly the distance from point A to point B 40% faster, so that you can then stand in line for luggage and traffic jams.
    An airplane for supersonic flight requires separate air routes that are not allowed over densely populated regions. Yes, the developers achieved their goal, created a supersonic aircraft, but the "earth" rejected it, due to its inability to adapt to its widespread use. And what, again on the same rake ?!
    Therefore, I was surprised when Putin, visiting a plant in Kazan, in honor of the restoration of production of the Tu-160, mentioned that it was time to create a new supersonic passenger aircraft on its "base". Who "blew" it into his ears - the presidential advisers who know nothing in aviation, or the projectors of the nouveau riche, tough specialists in cutting budget funds. As the saying goes, "the word is not a sparrow", the president announced
    - "knee-fans" answered - "it's done." And the flywheel spun, regardless of the prospects and funds for the next utopia. "Supersonic" is not needed in civil aviation, more important is the availability of the population to regular flights throughout the country, and not sky-high prices for air tickets.
    1. edmed
      edmed 22 June 2020 13: 06
      -2
      Quote: askort154
      Therefore, I was surprised when Putin, visiting a plant in Kazan, in honor of the restoration of production of the Tu-160, mentioned that it was time to create a new supersonic passenger aircraft on its "base". Who "blew" it into his ears - the presidential advisers who know nothing in aviation, or the projectors of the nouveau riche, tough specialists in cutting budget funds. As the saying goes, "the word is not a sparrow", the president announced
      - "knee-fans" answered - "it's done." And the flywheel spun, regardless of the prospects and funds for another utopia. "Supersonic" is not needed in civil aviation, more important is the availability of the population to regular flights throughout the country, and not

      Well, it seems like they quietly quietly pushed the project, with a leg in a dark corner, ousted Garant.
    2. Zeev zeev
      Zeev zeev 22 June 2020 13: 18
      +6
      "Soon" they shut down Tu-144. "Concorde" successfully flew until 2003 and carried over a million passengers. And this despite the really high ticket prices.
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 22 June 2020 14: 01
        +5
        Somewhere I saw the figure of 2,5 million ...
      2. askort154
        askort154 22 June 2020 14: 10
        0
        ZeevZeev .... "Soon" the Tu-144 was closed. "Concorde" successfully flew until 2003 and carried over a million passengers. And this despite the really high ticket prices.

        The word "soon" is not literal. Yes, the Concorde took off 3 months later than the Tu-144, but it flew for a long time, about 26 years. But in the end, it was also decommissioned, like the Tu-144, due to the unpromising use of SHS for passenger transportation, due to their unprofitability due to special conditions to ensure the safety of their flights. Airways were created over Europe specifically for SHS flights, and it was easier to do this over the Atlantic than in the USSR over its own territory. And the Tu-144 did not give out its design data. It was designed for flights of 4,5 thousand km, but (a flight to Vladik with one intermediate landing, but in reality it could not exceed 3,5). as a result, it was launched, officially, only one flight - to Alma-Ata. The operation of the Tu-144 was closed after the disaster over Yegoryevsk, and the operation of the Concorde was closed 26 years later, after the disaster on departure from Charles de Gaulle.
        Then the end of the operation of the SAF in civil aviation was put to an end. Life has shown that in GA there is no need to massively use SHS.
        What I wrote about earlier. And I am surprised by the attempt to return to this topic in Russia. Someone benefits from it. We have been tormenting the Superjet and MS-21 for decades, but here we have a "cool" maneuver for the "pie in the sky" - SVS. Absurd! hi
        1. Zeev zeev
          Zeev zeev 22 June 2020 15: 09
          +1
          In this case, I'm not interested in the state of the Russian aviation industry (this is a separate topic), but in the prospects for supersonic passenger aviation. The development of SHS was hindered by the new rules of international flights, which prohibited supersonic flights over cities (due to sonic boom). Therefore, the Concorde was used over the Atlantic. Another reason for the abandonment of the Concorde was the sharp decline in the number of flights of businessmen (namely, they were the target group that could afford very expensive tickets) to meetings. Still, telecommunications have evolved enough to handle business by email, video, and the Internet.
          But since then, quite a few years have passed, new technologies have appeared, there is a real opportunity to use more economical engines with cheaper fuel, and production itself can be very cheapened by the use of composites and three-dimensional printing, it is possible to reduce sound pollution from supersonic speed. Therefore, I hope that the hypersonics will return to heaven.
          1. KVIRTU
            KVIRTU 22 June 2020 21: 02
            0
            If you increase the level of reliability, etc. across the oceans directly and so will fly twice as fast, and without supersonic. Huddle on the coastline, look the same flyradar, fly twice as long. From France via Britain, Greenland, Canada to the USA. So far, everyone is happy.
  18. Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone 22 June 2020 12: 49
    +6
    TsAGI creates a plane? Probably conducting research. Only then does the project create a design bureau. And he is already building a plant.
  19. evgen1221
    evgen1221 22 June 2020 12: 50
    0
    Rather, they draw the project so that they don’t lose their qualifications, it’s real for the country not to pull the project engines right away with the excuse of noise, fuel consumption and non-environmental friendliness, while doing the same and cutting it. And in the country for a million from Moscow to Vladik there are no fools to roll around.
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 22 June 2020 13: 24
      +2
      Well, people are traveling from St. Petersburg to Moscow on Sapsan in a suite for 20 thousand.
  20. dgonni
    dgonni 22 June 2020 13: 39
    -3
    Another cut dough.
  21. Freedim
    Freedim 22 June 2020 13: 43
    +2
    With modern materials and technologies, it is quite possible to create a car superior to the "Concorde" / Tu144 in everything except the price. The only question is who and where will fly fast and expensive on it? .. In theory, the plane should be intercontinental, but judging by the anti-Russian fuss over the oceans, the SP-2 project is destined for the intercontinental scale project .. the bourgeoisie will resist with all parts of the body so as not to let this competitor to the market. It is also not clear where to fly around Russia in supersonic. Those who can pay so much sit exclusively in Moscow and fly exclusively abroad. Actually, this is the same rake that the USSR and the British-French with their civilian "supersonic" got up to.
    shl. Although I personally think that the decision is necessary, because any progress is better than sitting on the priest evenly. And the experience, albeit negative, will not allow the infrastructure to merge into an impossible state. You must not miss what you have already managed to "hold by the tail" .. otherwise it will be like the Americans with nuclear energy.
  22. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 22 June 2020 13: 53
    +2
    Where are we flying? How then, to Khabarovsk? laughing

    I remember that tickets for flights Moscow –Alma-Ata and Moscow – Khabarovsk cost about 70 rubles. Minimal at the time.
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 22 June 2020 15: 43
      +4
      Leningrad - Vladivostok 140 rubles
      Leningrad - Khabarovsk 122 rubles
      Not cheap, the whole salary of a young engineer.
  23. NordUral
    NordUral 22 June 2020 14: 17
    +2
    Why not a starship right away?
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 22 June 2020 16: 52
      +1
      Dutov still does not know what a spaceship is. As he reads in the book, he will change the direction of the project.
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 22 June 2020 17: 53
        +1
        It’s sad, somehow, Sergey, with such leaders and owners.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 22 June 2020 19: 04
          0
          And to work under them is generally sad
          1. NordUral
            NordUral 22 June 2020 19: 55
            0
            I was lucky, since the 89th I worked for myself.
  24. Name Surname
    Name Surname 22 June 2020 19: 16
    0
    If I'm not mistaken, is this as a business jet?
  25. The Siberian barber
    The Siberian barber 22 June 2020 22: 12
    0
    What significance will this miracle plane have for the national economy?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 June 2020 09: 47
      0
      The national economy concept is very extensible in our time.
      1. The Siberian barber
        The Siberian barber 23 June 2020 11: 04
        0
        Doubts about what will be produced in commodity quantities))
        Conclusion: super plane for VIP
  26. yfast
    yfast 22 June 2020 23: 31
    +1
    Waste of taxes on the Wishlist of an aging Pu. Finish Almaty, PD-35, MS-21, and further down the list.
    1. IC
      IC 23 June 2020 16: 33
      0
      You're right. This is a cut budget
  27. akshor
    akshor 23 June 2020 13: 39
    0
    The idea is garbage. Only the very idea of ​​a government plane for the oligarchs ... who are unlikely to experiment on themselves. That is, if for private money, there are no questions. And so, there are many more important projects for the civilian sector. The PD family to develop. Transport workers need new ones. It is necessary to pour money into science and education. Revive institutions and personnel, research institutes and design bureaus. A decent salary to pay and provide decent working conditions.
  28. IC
    IC 23 June 2020 16: 31
    0
    The creation of a new passenger aircraft begins with a feasibility study from air carriers. Is there an order from Aeroflot? Otherwise, the story of Concord will be repeated. The plane was created, but there was no market for it. Where are the calculations on the cost of operation, the cost of tickets and the assessment of possible routes.