Caucasian Gambit of the Fuhrer. Under the tutelage of London and Washington


How to "choose" in Ankara



Behind the Main Caucasus Range was the main oil box of Russia. This is what Winston Churchill called the Baku crafts in 1919, when the prospect of their transfer to the complete control of Britain was more than real. The Transcaucasian interest of the West (and behind it and Turkey) did not weaken even in the interwar period.

Perhaps the most compelling proof of this is the notorious 1940 Fuel Plan, which provided for a joint invasion of British, French and Turkish troops in Transcaucasia no later than mid-March 1940. This was to be real "help" to Finland who fought with the USSR. The plan envisaged the seizure of the Baku oil fields, the Baku-Tbilisi-Batumi oil pipeline, the Batumi port and the Trans-Caucasian railway.

The implementation of the plan was disrupted by the Soviet-Finnish truce on March 12, 1940. However, the invasion project did not go away, and at the same time, US President F. Roosevelt in 1942 literally imposed on Stalin the deployment of the American and British Air Force in Transcaucasia. This was, of course, explained by the "high vulnerability of this region to the Nazi invasion" in the summer and autumn of 1942.

From Roosevelt and Stalin’s correspondence well-known with us, but not in the USA and Britain, one can learn that the Americans, while offering the deployment of their Air Force in Transcaucasia, did not say a word about the possibility of a German or Turkish invasion of the region. But she was quite real in 1942. By the autumn of 1942, Turkey had mobilized up to 20 divisions equipped with German and Italian, but also British weapons, to invade Transcaucasia.

Fortunately, the Turkish-German friendship treaty, which was not fulfilled by Ankara, was signed just four days before the Nazi invasion of the USSR - June 18, 1941. The document entered into force from the date of signing without ratifications, but at the same time it continued to enter Turkey. British weapons, and in the fall of 1942 - and American.

The ambassadors of the USA and Great Britain in Moscow explained to the leadership of the USSR the need for such supplies by the desire to induce Turkey to enter the war ... against Germany. However, Ankara did this only on February 23, 1945 in order to “have time” to be designated as part of the UN. And until the middle of 1944, that is, before the allies landed in Normandy, Turkey not only provided economic assistance to Germany, but also passed the military and merchant ships of Germany and Italy in both directions through the straits.

In the summer and autumn of 1942, military provocations of Turkey were noticeably more frequent on the land and sea borders with the USSR. It is not easy to judge how much this affected the failures of the Soviet troops in the Crimea and the North Caucasus, but the delegations of the Turkish Ministry of Defense and the General Staff too often “visited” the German troops on the Soviet front in 1942 and 1943. In Turkey itself, pan-Turkic, in fact pro-German, agents sharply intensified at that time.

Presidential Recognition


Most likely, we should still pay tribute to the Turkish leadership for not joining the war. However, the Turks themselves should also be grateful either to fate or to the Allies for this. After all, they also remembered who first came to their aid in the early 20s, when a real threat loomed over the division of the former Ottoman Empire. It was Soviet Russia.

Caucasian Gambit of the Fuhrer. Under the tutelage of London and Washington

Turkish President Ismet Inenu cannot be denied "flexibility"

The fact of Ankara’s policy was very peculiar in its flexibility, admitted, albeit indirectly, by Turkish President Ismet Inenu, speaking on November 1, 1945 at the opening of the 3rd session of the 7th national parliament:

In some places in the USSR it was argued that when the Germans advanced to the Volga, we interfered with the Soviets, concentrating our forces on our eastern borders.

But more specifically, the position of Turkey in the early 1940s was explained by Franz von Papen, the German ambassador to Ankara in those years. He was surprisingly acquitted at the Nuremberg trials.


F. von Papen once competed with Hitler for the post of German Chancellor, but "stayed" in Ankara during the war

In a dispatch to the German Foreign Ministry (March 1942), he noted:

As President Inenu assured me, "Turkey is highly interested in destroying the Russian colossus." And that "Turkey’s neutral position is already much more profitable for the Axis countries than for England," the president said. "

And the allies of the USSR participated in these discussions in Turkey - through the British ambassador H. Netubull-Hugessen and the American L. Steingard.

In this regard, the information of the “World of the Turkish Coalition” portal, clearly oriented towards “pan-Turkism,” dated October 17, 2018 is also interesting:

von Papen had to play a triple game in Ankara: the ambassador, Hitler’s secret envoy and a representative of the supposedly “opposition”. The main partners in the game were the American, British ambassadors and the Nuncio of the Vatican. Pope Pius XII, like the Fuhrer, sent to Turkey not just a priest, but a talented diplomat and “apparatchik”. All this seriously scared Moscow.

Moscow did not dare to take military measures against such actions by Turkey so as not to provoke it to official military support of Berlin. The Western allies of the USSR stubbornly did not join the Soviet protests about Ankara's flagrant violations of official Turkish neutrality in favor of Germany and Italy - for example, the corresponding notes of the Soviet government against Turkey dated July 12, August 14, 1941, November 4, 1942.

In March 1942, headquarters exercises were held in the Caucasus, in which Turkey was in the role of the enemy. The actions of the Red Army began, according to the scenario of the exercises, with an attack on eastern Turkey from the Black Sea coast of this region and ended with the capture of Oltu, Sarykamysh, Trabzon and Erzurum, more precisely, the whole of eastern Turkey and most of the East Turkish Black Sea ports.

But these exercises did not provide for admission of observers from the USA and Great Britain to them. Thus, Moscow made it clear that it does not trust the Allies' policy towards Turkey and does not forget about the plan for the invasion of Transcaucasia in 1940 ("Fuel"). At a session of the Allied Council of Foreign Ministers held in Moscow in October 1943, Stalin stated that

Turkish neutrality, which at one time was beneficial to the Allies, is now beneficial to Hitler. For it covers the German rear in the Balkans.

What will Comrade Stalin say to this?


But the Allied delegations did not respond to this statement. With all these factors in mind, Washington and London seem to have paved the way either for the implementation of the same Fuel plan, or to get ahead of Turkey in its possible seizure of strategic targets in Transcaucasia. Let us cite in this connection documents from the already mentioned correspondence between Stalin and Roosevelt during the war years.

October 9, 1942, Roosevelt - Stalin:

I have received a copy of the message from the British Prime Minister in your name. We are going to act as soon as possible in order to provide you with the air forces that will operate under your strategic command in the Caucasus.



Without waiting for Stalin’s response to such a proposal, the US president more specifically announced military plans in the Caucasus. Already on October 12, 1942, Roosevelt informed Stalin:

Our group of heavy bombers has been ordered to immediately prepare for operations on your southern flank. The implementation of this event will not depend on any other operation or task (that is, the Transcaucasian project has a higher priority. - Approx. Aut.), And these aircraft, as well as a sufficient number of transports will be sent to the Caucasus in the near future.

Note that two weeks before this letter, the Wehrmacht almost blocked Dzaudzhikau, the capital of North Ossetia. That is, the shortest path in the Caucasus was under the real threat of Nazi capture. The Americans offered options for basing the Allied Air Force in Batumi, Tbilisi, Baku, Julfa, the main transit point of Lendlisian supplies through Iran, and in Azerbaijani Lankaran, a port near the border with Iran. But Stalin continued to ignore these proposals.

Which, of course, offended Roosevelt. A fragment of his letter to Stalin on December 16, 1942:

It’s not clear to me exactly what happened in relation to our proposal for an American aviation help in the Caucasus. I am quite ready to send connections with American pilots and crews. I think that they should act on the composition of formations under the command of their American superiors, but each group would, of course, be under general Russian command with regard to tactical goals.
What I mean is mainly airplanes such as a bomber, which can be transferred to the Caucasus on their own. (From Iran and Iraq. - Approx. Aut.)

Finally, Stalin clarified this issue, although without a hint of understanding the true intentions of the Allies. In his letter to Roosevelt of December 18, 1942, it was noted:

I am very grateful to you for your willingness to help us. As for the Anglo-American squadrons with flight personnel, at the moment there is no need to send them to the Caucasus. Now the main fights are being fought and will be fought on the Central Front and in the Voronezh region.

However, Roosevelt subsequently no longer offered to redirect the American squadrons intended by the Caucasus to Stalin's directions. It is easy to assume that American plans to "protect" that region from the Wehrmacht were timed to coincide with a possible invasion of Turkish troops there. Then, together with the allies, to cut off Transcaucasia from the USSR and to seize, first of all, the region’s oil resources and the Caspian-Black Sea corridor. But it didn’t happen ...
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  1. Olgovich 19 May 2020 05: 42 New
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    This statement:
    US President F. Roosevelt in 1942 literally imposed on Stalin the deployment of the American and British Air Force in Transcaucasia. This was, of course, explained by the "high vulnerability of this region to the Nazi invasion" in the summer and autumn of 1942.


    contrary to this:
    From Roosevelt and Stalin’s correspondence widely known with us, but not in the USA and Britain, one can learn that the Americans, while offering the deployment of their Air Force in Transcaucasia, did not mention the possibility of a German invasion of the region.

    Most likely, we should still pay tribute to the Turkish leadership for not joining the war.


    Due to the hostile policies and provocations of Turkey, the USSR was forced to keep a large number of troops there.

    only because the Turks did not enter. they were not thinking about us: who would save them from partition now in case of defeat, as in 1920 did the Bolsheviks save them? None . And they understood that.

    It is easy to assume that American plans to "protect" that region from the Wehrmacht were timed to coincide with a possible invasion of Turkish troops there. Then, together with the allies, to cut off Transcaucasia from the USSR and to seize, first of all, the region’s oil resources and the Caspian-Black Sea corridor.

    it’s easy to assume. it’s impossible to prove: how do the authors imagine it: everywhere are Americans from the USSR fighting against the Nazis, but in the Transcaucasus .... together with the Nazis and Turks .... against the USSR? Yes, and .... Soviet airfields? belay request
    1. really 19 May 2020 06: 11 New
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      Inference problems not only in this article laughing
    2. Boris ⁣ Shaver 19 May 2020 08: 37 New
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      Quote: Olgovich
      as the authors imagine it: everywhere Americans from the USSR are fighting against the Nazis, but in the Caucasus ....

      Well, if you recall how the British shot French ships with crews in 1940. Or what pirouettes were written out around the French colonies, which at that time remained without a “master" at that time ...
      If the same "unthinkable" operation had begun in due time, or if things would have gone bad in 1942, for example, near Stalingrad, then the Anglo-Saxon airbases in such a sweet area would have come in very handy.
      1. Avior 19 May 2020 09: 14 New
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        Well, you compared.
        Ships were shot to prevent them from falling into the hands of the Nazis.
        Like the colonies.
        Well this is not the same thing.
        1. Boris ⁣ Shaver 19 May 2020 09: 30 New
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          Quote: Avior
          Like the colonies.

          If, for example, Paulus had fulfilled his task, the Soviet Transcaucasia would have been in exactly the same position as those colonies - it would urgently need to "fall" into the hands of the Nazis. Here the Anglo-Saxons would have been fit for the Turks armed with them, just as de Gaulle had fit in Syria and Lebanon, or as in Dakar and Sinegal - then the map would have laid down.
          1. Avior 19 May 2020 09: 38 New
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            Let me remind you that, unlike the French, we ourselves destroyed everything that could fall into the hands of the Nazis and make them stronger.
            And not only factories, factories, stocks, equipment, etc., at some time, even their own settlements.
            . BETTER OF THE HIGH COMMAND

            ORDER
            November 17 1941 Year No. 428

            ON THE CREATION OF SPECIAL TEAMS FOR THE DESTRUCTION AND BURNING OF POPULAR ITEMS IN THE REAR OF THE GERMAN Fascist Troops

            The French didn’t take such measures close, they simply got out of the war, and the British had to fight the Germans, so they were not interested in strengthening the Nazis.
            So your example is clearly unsuccessful
            hi
            1. Boris ⁣ Shaver 19 May 2020 09: 46 New
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              Quote: Avior
              Let me remind you that, unlike the French, we ourselves destroyed everything that could fall into the hands of the Nazis and make them stronger.

              Do you think we would destroy Transcaucasia by allowing the Tethys Ocean to regain some of its ancient rights? Or would the region fall into someone’s hands as a source of raw materials and a gateway to Africa?
              The production of tangerines and local architecture - this, imagine, is not at all why all hands went there.
              1. Avior 19 May 2020 09: 57 New
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                What I think I wrote to you.
                I think that your example of the shooting of French ships by the British is unsuccessful.
                hi
            2. pmkemcity 19 May 2020 10: 42 New
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              Quote: Avior
              and the British had to fight the Germans, so they were not interested in strengthening the Nazis.

              That is, in your opinion, the British, by carpet bombing, destroying our cities and factories, would make us stronger?
              1. Avior 19 May 2020 13: 28 New
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                That is, in my opinion, I wrote, and you write what you think. hi
            3. Tamer 19 May 2020 12: 46 New
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              The situation in November near Moscow and Leningrad is critical. The order concerns these areas, and for what purpose it is necessary to destroy settlements in the order is also indicated. There is no need to make comparisons in relation to the whole country and in relation to a limited section of the front of another. This is juggling-manipulation.
              1. Avior 19 May 2020 13: 30 New
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                Read the order, what it concerns, which site.
                And read the instructions not to leave the Germans either.
                There are no indications of plots there.
                1. Tamer 20 May 2020 14: 13 New
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                  in the rear of German troops at a distance of 40-60 km in depth from the front line and 20-30 km to the right and left of the roads
                  1. Avior 20 May 2020 14: 42 New
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                    . The situation in November near Moscow and Leningrad is critical. The order concerns these areas,
                    1. Tamer 21 May 2020 14: 51 New
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                      Yes you are right. The text mentions Moscow and Leningrad, not directly specified
          2. knn54 19 May 2020 10: 45 New
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            Operation Pike.Preparation began after the end of the Soviet-Finnish war, in March 1940. By April, plans for air strikes in Baku, Batumi and Grozny from air bases in Iran, Turkey and Syria were ready.
            The French prime minister wrote in his memorandum to the British government;
            “Decisive operations in the Black and Caspian Seas are necessary for the Allies not only in order to reduce Germany’s oil supply, but first of all to paralyze the entire economy of the USSR before the Reich can use it in their interests ... The absence of a state of war between the Allies and Russia, it may be seen by the British government as an obstacle to such actions.The French government does not deny this obstacle, but believes that we should not hesitate and, if necessary, take responsibility for breaking with Russia "...
            Hitler's invasion of France thwarted this plan.
          3. Olgovich 19 May 2020 12: 49 New
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            Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
            If, for example, Paulus performed your task.

            And what does Paulus have to do with it, when the Germans swiftly advanced in the Caucasus в side of Turkey?

            How was the Germans taking Krasnodar bad? Or Pyatigorsk. and especially Maykop. Germans already on the Terek, a stone's throw, a few tens of kilometers? Just hit the rear! But no!
            Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
            like those colonies-it would urgently need to "fall" into the hands of the Nazis.

            part of the oil fields by the Nazis was ALREADY captured and even exploited, tanks were refueled directly at the fields!

            and no one rushed from the Allies to bomb, so as not to fall.

            By the way, oil Taman was not bombed either. and there the Germans mined tens of tons per day!
            1. Boris ⁣ Shaver 20 May 2020 06: 32 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              What does Paulus have to do with the Germans swiftly advancing in the Caucasus

              The Paulus operation is just part of Blau’s overall plan.
              Within the framework of the plan, the 6th Army of Paulus was to carry out an auxiliary task, trying to occupy the large bend of the Don, the Isthmus of Isthmus and Stalingrad, with the goal of blocking transport links between the central regions of the USSR and the Caucasus.
              First, Field Marshal Liszt performed the main task, and after that, the Führer personally took over the general command. And this task was the exit to the Caucasus.
              Here, in fact, what. Paulus’s luck would essentially mean isolating the region under discussion. And this isolation would hasten to use not only Hitler, but also our "allies" of that time - here, do not go to a fortuneteller.

              Quote: Olgovich
              How was the Germans taking Krasnodar bad? Or Pyatigorsk. and especially Maykop. Germans are already on the Terek, a stone's throw, a few tens of kilometers?

              It seems to me that you simply forgot that the great Russian Volga River flows into the Caspian Sea.

              Quote: Olgovich
              no one rushed from the allies to bomb, so as not to get

              It is foolish to destroy an asset that you are hoping to get.
              1. Olgovich 20 May 2020 07: 59 New
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                Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
                Here, in fact, what. Paulus’s luck would essentially mean isolating the region under discussion. And this isolation would hasten to use not only Hitler, but also our "allies" of that time - here, do not go to a fortuneteller.

                Paulus was more than a thousand km from Turkey

                German is already Maykop -next, two steps away.
                WHAT else to wait for?

                and yes, the region was isolated, in fact, the Germans stood on the Volga.
                Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
                I think, you just forgot that the great Russian Volga River flows into the Caspian Sea.

                Did you try to baptize?
                Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
                Stupidly Destroy an asset that you hope to get.

                That is silly, that
                Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
                like those colonies - it would be urgent needed a "miss" into the hands of the Nazis.
                , and miss you have - bombing of French ships
                Not yet decided?
                1. Boris ⁣ Shaver 20 May 2020 08: 21 New
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                  Quote: Olgovich
                  In fact, the Germans stood on the Volga.

                  On a plot of 0,5 km for a period of something about a week or a couple of weeks? Isolated, so isolated. In vain, it turns out Hitler was unhappy.

                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Did you try to baptize?

                  Baptized. And you probably wanted to say "cross yourself."

                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Not yet decided?

                  And where did I talk about annihilation for "miss"? On the contrary, I argued that resources and a territory attractive for transit are those assets of the Caucasus that cannot be physically destroyed. They can simply be possessed "so that the fascists do not get it."
                  1. Olgovich 20 May 2020 09: 36 New
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                    Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
                    On a plot of 0,5 km for a period of something about a week or a couple of weeks?

                    no not like this
                    Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
                    Baptized. And you probably wanted to say "cross yourself."

                    Yes it's to blame hi
                    Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
                    And where did I talk about annihilation for "miss"? On the contrary, I argued that resources and a territory attractive for transit are those assets of the Caucasus that cannot be physically destroyed. They can simply be possessed "so that the fascists do not get it."

                    You said:
                    Well, if you remember how the British shot French ships with crews in 1940

                    A base of bombers in the Caucasus, for the bombing.

                    Oil cannot be destroyed, but production infrastructure is possible.

                    What ours, in principle, have successfully done under Maykop too. The Germans practically got nothing there ...
                    1. Boris ⁣ Shaver 20 May 2020 21: 49 New
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                      Quote: Olgovich
                      no not like this

                      The task of Paulus was: get out, gain a foothold, block. Paulus did not complete the task. There is no need to talk about any stubborn “blocking” until the end of the Battle of Stalingrad, and it doesn’t matter how many meters how many days at a point they contemplated their goal - mother Volga.
                      A thief will not get into the house if there is a great chance that the owner can return at any second.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      You talked

                      Well. So talk about the fate of the Black Sea Fleet, respectively. I did not speak about the bombing of the oil-producing infrastructure. Plus, he spoke separately about the fate of "isolated territories."
        2. Akuzenka 20 May 2020 10: 17 New
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          Yes, French ships were on raids in British naval bases (mostly). There they were in terrible danger of capture by the Nazi troops. Read where the French Navy (along with the British) was based, after the defeat of France by Germany, and the veil of propaganda about the good and noble Britons will fall from your eyes.
      2. Octopus 19 May 2020 09: 42 New
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        Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
        or if in 1942 things would go wrong with us

        If Blau were successful, then the destruction of the Caucasian industries would be a priority, including for the Soviet side. The Soviet side was not particularly frugal in such circumstances, take the same Dnieper hydroelectric station.
        Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
        then the airbases in such a sweet area the Anglo-Saxons would have come in handy.

        Allies sit in the Persian Gulf and Transcaucasia perfectly overlap from there. Moving the bases to the north made sense for the participation of American forces in the Battle of Stalingrad, which the Soviet side considered unnecessary.
        1. Boris ⁣ Shaver 19 May 2020 10: 00 New
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          Quote: Octopus
          destruction of the Caucasian crafts

          The Iraqis destroyed some of their crafts at one time. All of them returned to operation quite quickly. The main thing in the field is not infrastructure.

          Quote: Octopus
          Allies sit in the Persian Gulf and Transcaucasia perfectly overlap from there

          Churchill, for example, did not think so. And specifically on the situation with the Soviet Transcaucasia, he spoke very clearly in his memoirs. True, he wasn’t as literate politically and politically as modern sofa marshals, therefore, it was naive to believe that if the Germans began to be supplied with this theater through the Caucasus, and the Anglo-Saxons, at the same time, would continue to supply their expeditionary troops with sea, then for the Anglo-Saxons everything will end very quickly. Do not wake up strictly judge the old man.
          1. Octopus 19 May 2020 10: 03 New
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            Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
            All of them returned to operation quite quickly.

            Until the next raid.
            Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
            Churchill, for example, did not think so. And specifically on the situation with the Soviet Transcaucasia, he spoke very clearly in his memoirs.

            It is specifically about the possibility of an attack on Baku. And Churchill wrote a lot of things, his ideas should be considered specifically. Considerations for expeditionary forces - this is not the winter of 42-43rd.
            1. Boris ⁣ Shaver 19 May 2020 12: 47 New
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              Quote: Octopus
              Until the next raid.

              The whole war functioned in Baku and Ploiesti.

              Quote: Octopus
              Churchill wrote a lot of things

              So I don’t argue - this scribe is far from sofa marshals.
              1. Octopus 19 May 2020 12: 50 New
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                Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
                The whole war functioned in Baku and Ploiesti.

                Just the functioning of Baku as Ploiesti of the 44th year would suit everyone.
                Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
                this scribe is far from sofa marshals.

                You certainly know better.
                1. Boris ⁣ Shaver 19 May 2020 21: 28 New
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                  Quote: Octopus
                  Just the functioning of Baku as Ploiesti of the 44th year would suit everyone.

                  It is unlikely. But you speak up to the next. raid, and this is obviously not the case.
                  Quote: Octopus
                  You certainly know better.

                  Certainly
    3. Octopus 19 May 2020 08: 46 New
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      Quote: Olgovich
      Due to the hostile policies and provocations of Turkey, the USSR was forced to keep a large number of troops there.

      The Soviet Union and on the border with Japan, with which there was a non-aggression pact, held a considerable amount of forces. In principle, this can be considered reasonable.
      Quote: Olgovich
      who would save them from partition now in case of defeat, how in 1920 did the Bolsheviks save them?

      The Bolsheviks in the 20s are nobody and there is no way to call them. The USSR began to receive international recognition already after the Lausanne Treaty of 23rd year established the borders of Turkey, and the process of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire as a whole ended.
      Quote: Olgovich
      who would save them from the section now

      The Americans saved. The Turks, like all the other neighbors of the USSR, understood that their independence, not to mention territorial integrity, was inconsistent. And the USSR, of course, did not disappoint. As soon as Churchill and Roosevelt sailed away from Yalta, historical Soviet lands were immediately found in rather unexpected places.

      Fortunately for the Turks, they managed to make new friends. So the liberator of Europe comrade Still, Stalin did not succeed in liberating Turkey, either in whole or in part.
      1. Boris ⁣ Shaver 19 May 2020 08: 58 New
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        Quote: Octopus
        Soviet lands in rather unexpected places

        Quote: Octopus
        sail away from Yalta

        Judging by the level of your knowledge of the Russian language, you must be from those very places.
      2. Alexey RA 19 May 2020 11: 33 New
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        Quote: Octopus
        The Soviet Union and on the border with Japan, with which there was a non-aggression pact, held a considerable amount of forces. In principle, this can be considered reasonable.

        Well, so the agreement was signed with the Metropolis and through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. And it bordered the USSR with the territories of the Kwantung Army. smile
        1. Octopus 19 May 2020 12: 17 New
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          Quote: Alexey RA
          And it bordered the USSR with the territories of the Kwantung Army.

          You are absolutely right. Japan signed the agreement, but Manzhou-Guo did not sign.

          And the contract, as it turned out in the 45th year, was a paper matter, it was yesterday — but today it is no longer. Therefore, I say that the USSR in this particular case acted relatively rationally.
          1. Alexey RA 19 May 2020 15: 41 New
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            Quote: Octopus
            Therefore, I say that the USSR in this particular case acted relatively rationally.

            So ... The USSR already knew from its own experience how "durable and indestructible" the non-aggression pact is. And he decided that the bayonets are more reliable than papers. smile
      3. Olgovich 19 May 2020 13: 03 New
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        Quote: Octopus
        The Bolsheviks in the 20s are nobody and there is no way to call them. The USSR began to receive international recognition after Lthe Ozannes Treaty of the 23rd
        The borders of Turkey were established over the years, and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire as a whole ended.


        1. These "Nobody" - gave the Turks more weapons, recognition and money.

        2. And before the age of 23 ... nothing happened and ... nothing happened? belay lol

        or someone, nevertheless, BATTLE the Greeks and Armenians to the smithereens, leaving no stone unturned from the Treaty of Sevres? And what was left of Turkey-zilch?

        Would it be without the Bolsheviks? I think no.
        1. Octopus 19 May 2020 13: 21 New
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          Quote: Olgovich
          . These "Nobody," gave the Turks more weapons, recognition and money.

          Weapons to continue the 1st World War? Turkey?
          Quote: Olgovich
          And until the age of 23 ... nothing happened and ... nothing happened?

          Where wasn’t?
          Until the 23rd year, the Entente sawed the Ottoman Empire as it saw fit. Just in the 23rd finished.
          Quote: Olgovich
          someone, nevertheless, BATTLE the Greeks and Armenians to the smithereens, leaving no stone unturned from the Treaty of Sevres? And what was left of Turkey-zilch?

          Would it be without the Bolsheviks? I think no.

          Oh Lord, the Bolsheviks saved Turkey from the Armenians. Now they also recall the Armenians of Russia.
          1. Olgovich 19 May 2020 14: 04 New
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            Quote: Octopus
            Weapons to continue the 1st World War? Turkey?

            Kaka such PMV in .... 1920? lol
            Quote: Octopus
            Where wasn’t?
            Until the 23rd year of the Entente sawed the Ottoman Empire as it saw fit. Just in the 23rd finished.

            belay About Sevrsky, NON-IMPLEMENTED in real life, a contract-need, read, eh?
            Quote: Octopus
            Oh Lord, the Bolsheviks saved Turkey from the Armenians. Now they also recall the Armenians of Russia.

            What kind of bullshit? recourse


            Quote: Octopus
            Oh my God,
            , then ONCE AGAIN: the Turks defeated the Armenians and, yes, using the weapons of the Bolsheviks
            1. Octopus 19 May 2020 14: 15 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              Kaka such PMV in .... 1920?

              Finished. As a result of which the Ottoman Empire ordered a long life.
              Quote: Olgovich
              About Sevrsky,

              Yes, I know more or less.
              Quote: Olgovich
              What kind of bullshit?

              Well, here you attribute the revision by Turkey of Wilson's ideas on Armenia to the influence of the Bolsheviks.
              Quote: Olgovich
              Turks defeated the Armenians and, yes, with the help of the weapons of the Bolsheviks

              How did they fight without weapons of war? What except the Bolsheviks have nowhere to take ...
        2. Nikolai Korovin 21 May 2020 04: 29 New
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          Comrade Frunze did not in vain pay a visit to Turkey on the battleship Marat. Or the October Revolution? I forgot. Immediately soon the Greeks ran. And a statue of Ataturk appeared with an outstretched hand: "Drive the invaders! Drive the Greeks into the sea!" True, not a word about the Armenians, and it is understandable why. No, however, the Americans saved the Turks. And the USSR had normal relations for a long time, almost all of the 20s, there were only with Germany and Turkey. And also with Afghanistan. Although the Basmachis then went through the Panj, the government in Kabul could not control this.
    4. Alexey RA 19 May 2020 11: 27 New
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      Quote: Olgovich
      Due to the hostile policies and provocations of Turkey, the USSR was forced to keep a large number of troops there.

      only because the Turks did not enter. they were not thinking about us: who would save them from partition now in case of defeat, as in 1920 did the Bolsheviks save them? None . And they understood that.

      Moreover, besides our units in Transcaucasia, there were also British units in Iraq and the Allied occupation forces in Syria. Plus strength in Iran. So the Turks were held from three sides. smile
      1. Umalta 19 May 2020 17: 32 New
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        Imagine that the USSR would not have won the battle of Stalingrad and the Caucasus, and these bases plus the approaching fleet to the shores of Turkey would have forced the latter to come to the "aid" of the Turkic peoples of the Caucasus under the "neutral" flag and under the patronage of the Anglo-Saxons. Hitler would have gritted his teeth, but would have left this problem for later, because the USSR would have to be finished off, and the forces and communications stretched out nowhere, well, and Italy, the allies, if they wished, would have quickly been smashed to the knee.
        1. Boris ⁣ Shaver 20 May 2020 06: 39 New
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          Quote: Umalta
          Imagine that the USSR would not win the battle of Stalingrad and the Caucasus

          More than that. The Germans generally did not initially plan a "turn south." If they had succeeded in barbarossa in their intended form, then the Crimea, Caucasus, Kuban and Transcaucasia would become easy prey for Turkey and our "allies".
      2. Boris ⁣ Shaver 20 May 2020 06: 43 New
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        Quote: Alexey RA
        Moreover, besides our units in Transcaucasia, there were also British units in Iraq and the Allied occupation forces in Syria. Plus strength in Iran. So the Turks were held from three sides.

        Held with one, with the other two - supported
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. your1970 20 May 2020 11: 22 New
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      The Allies understood very well:
      1) after the capture of oil fields, the USSR may capitulate. It is physically impossible to fight without oil
      2) the capitulation of the USSR is extremely disadvantageous for the USA and Great Britain (especially for it). Having received the resources of the USSR, Hitler could torment the Island at an accelerated pace
      3) in addition to this, after the surrender of the USSR, Turkey and the Wehrmacht received full access to the Middle East and Suez. The romemel who would meet them would receive at least some resources and turn everything inside out there ... if they got a war on two fronts in Palestine and Egypt, do not go to a fortuneteller would lose with a bang this round.

      Bottom line- In such a very real scenario, the Allies should have fought for the oil fields of the USSR as their own home ....

      ZY everything possible minusers - this we we know that the USSR could not capitulate, not that country
      Allies in 1941-42 know this could not in principle. Just before their eyes, all the best armies of Europe were smeared with a thin layer for a maximum of a month
      1. Olgovich 21 May 2020 08: 34 New
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        Quote: your1970
        The Allies understood very well:
        1) after the capture of oil fields, the USSR may capitulate. It is physically impossible to fight without oil
        2) the capitulation of the USSR is extremely disadvantageous for the USA and Great Britain (especially for it). Having received the resources of the USSR, Hitler could torment the Island at an accelerated pace
        3) in addition to this, after the surrender of the USSR, Turkey and the Wehrmacht received full access to the Middle East and Suez. The romemel who would meet them would receive at least some resources and turn everything inside out there ... if they got a war on two fronts in Palestine and Egypt, do not go to a fortuneteller would lose with a bang this round.

        Bottom line- In such a very real scenario, the Allies should have fought for the oil fields of the USSR as their own home ....

        ZY to all possible minusers - we know that the USSR could not capitulate, not that country
        The Allies in 1941-42 could not know this in principle. Just before their eyes, all the best armies in Europe were smeared with a thin layer for a maximum of a month

        it's like that!
  2. Vitaly Tsymbal 19 May 2020 06: 48 New
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    What's this? An alternative story from an alternate reality? A story based on "pulled out" sentences from the correspondence of the Allies + some sort of "Fuel" plan and the authors' conjectures?))))) Bullshit .... bullshit ... and bullshit again.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Octopus 19 May 2020 07: 44 New
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      Already wrote a comment "This is Samsonov, he sees so."

      Only after that I looked at the authors.
    3. Boris ⁣ Shaver 19 May 2020 09: 42 New
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      Quote: Vitaliy Tsymbal
      alternative history

      You're not right. This is only a continuation of the centuries-old traditions of Anglo-Saxon politics.
  3. Free wind 19 May 2020 07: 01 New
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    Who saved whom? Who attacked whom? We have that, the mushrooms legalized, in a quiet, yet quarantine.
  4. vomag 19 May 2020 07: 20 New
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    Hahaha I read komenty rzhuu not magu ... remember Zadornov ...
  5. Edward Vashchenko 19 May 2020 08: 19 New
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    Strange conclusions.
  6. Roman1970_1 19 May 2020 08: 44 New
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    It is easy to assume that American plans to "protect" that region from the Wehrmacht were timed to coincide with a possible invasion of Turkish troops there. Then, together with the allies, to cut off Transcaucasia from the USSR and to seize, first of all, the region’s oil resources and the Caspian-Black Sea corridor. But it didn’t happen ...


    The author is a strategist. It’s not hard to imagine anything. Here he is nonsense and suggests. Sorry for the logic and common sense is not in his assumptions. The coalition is fighting against Hitler, and in one direction for. Very stupid
  7. Boris ⁣ Shaver 19 May 2020 09: 05 New
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    Roosevelt subsequently no longer proposed redirecting American squadrons destined for the Caucasus to Stalin's directions.

    Well, if the Germans were to go to Transcaucasia, then Rommel would get an excellent supply channel, which would be practically impossible to interrupt. Mindful of how he hung them up with relatively modest resources in northern Africa, he could not help ensuring that these resources did not become immodest - the Allies naturally could not. As for your theory, I believe that one does not interfere with the other
  8. Gardamir 19 May 2020 09: 17 New
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    Interesting topic. For me personally, all these Anglo-American-Turkish relations are unknown. But here it is important, the author missed, the division of Iran by Soviet and British troops.
    1. sidoroff 19 May 2020 09: 59 New
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      but he mentioned that "in March 1942, headquarters exercises were held in Transcaucasia in which Turkey was in the role of the enemy ..". to preventive
      the capture of Turkey (following the example of Iran) was being prepared seriously, but after the disastrous spring of 1942 it was not before Turkey.
  9. Avior 19 May 2020 09: 22 New
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    . However, Roosevelt subsequently no longer offered to redirect the American squadrons intended by the Caucasus to Stalin's directions.

    But didn’t the authors seem to have heard of the operation by the proposal of Roosevelt?
  10. Kolin 19 May 2020 09: 57 New
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    The role of reptilians is not disclosed!
  11. 1536 19 May 2020 10: 05 New
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    I.V. Stalin believed in his people.
    However, according to the laws of the genre, he had to put forward a counter proposal: to send a special regiment of the NKVD to protect the Strait of Gibraltar, and at the same time deploy a sufficient number of Soviet warships in the straits of the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus, naturally, to help allies with such labor "defending" from the Nazis.
    True, in this case, a pair of three, for example, the Anglo-Canadian divisions, might suddenly appear near Stalingrad, and there is no need to guess which side.
    1. Octopus 19 May 2020 10: 10 New
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      Quote: 1536
      However, according to the laws of the genre, he had to put forward a counter proposal: to second a special regiment of the NKVD to protect the Strait of Gibraltar,

      Comrade Stalin did this, and much in advance. Comrade D.G. Pavlov, deceased by the 42nd year, will not let you lie.

      Not fused, but fartanulo.
  12. Artashes 19 May 2020 10: 28 New
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    MORE THAN AN IMPORTANT TOPIC - THANKS FOR SUCH PUBLICATION! Turkey NEVER appreciated what Lenin and the Bolsheviks did for her. For example, pan-Turkic agents were ALWAYS active in the USSR - from Crimea to the Urals and Central Asia. And the Turkish provocations at sea and in the air were active, for example, even when the Kerch offensive of the Soviet troops stopped. What hindered the capabilities of the Navy and the USSR Air Force in supporting the Kerch Group of Forces (in Moscow these actions were considered the forerunner of the entry of the Turks into the war).
    Turkish and German-Turkish agents in the USSR also spread the causative agents of deadly diseases during the war: for example, in February-March 1943, groups of such "distributors" were accidentally discovered in Tashkent, Bukhara and Ashgabat (then all other groups were found, in including in Transcaucasia) .. In Tashkent, this ended with a lynching court by local residents. In Turkey, many German, Italian, and Hungarian officers "injured" on the Soviet-German and North African fronts recovered their health.
    A considerable number of food and textile "gifts" from Turkey were sent to German, Italian, Hungarian troops in late 1941 and early 1944. So the “friendship” was quite concrete
    In the name of friendship with Turkey, Lenin threw the Turkish Communist Party to its reprisals against the authorities; Khrushchev and all his "successors" behaved just as Jesuit to the communist Turks. But the Prostalinist Communist Party of Turkey is still operating (from the beginning of the 60s), exposing Moscow not only in THIS betrayal.
  13. smaug78 19 May 2020 13: 21 New
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    Caucasian Gambit of the Fuhrer. Under the tutelage of London and Washington
    conspiracy thesis again laughing
  14. Seal 20 May 2020 17: 56 New
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    Oh, how thick it is !!!!
    Fortunately, the Turkish-German friendship treaty, which was not implemented by Ankara, was signed just four days before the Nazi invasion of the USSR - June 18, 1941.
    We now know that it was signed four days before the Nazi invasion of the USSR. And at the time of signing it was signed 4 days after the release of TASS NOTES that there are no problems between the USSR and Germany, and all the rumors that some problems have arisen between Germany and the USSR are an English provocation.
    And until the middle of 1944, that is, before the allies landed in Normandy, Turkey not only provided economic assistance to Germany, but also passed the military and merchant ships of Germany and Italy in both directions through the straits.

    Really? So, right, the military (reluctantly I use the expression of the authors of the article instead of “ships”) the courts of Turkey passing through the straits in both directions? Well, what kind of warships did they pass through the straits ???
    F. von Papen once competed with Hitler for the post of German Chancellor, but he "stayed" in Ankara during the war. In a dispatch to the German Foreign Ministry (March 1942), he noted:
    Why repeat the various nonsense that von Papen composed to cheer up his boss in Berlin?
  15. Seal 20 May 2020 18: 01 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    then ONCE AGAIN: the Turks defeated the Armenians and, yes, with the help of the weapons of the Bolsheviks

    When did the Turks defeat the Armenians and when did the Turks receive first aid from us?
  16. Seal 20 May 2020 18: 03 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    Due to the hostile policies and provocations of Turkey, the USSR was forced to keep a large number of troops there.
    What period are you talking about in 1942? So how many specifically according to your estimates of our divisions remained near the border with Turkey in August-October 1942? That is, as they say, in the midst of the battle of Stalingrad.
  17. Seal 22 May 2020 09: 36 New
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    Authors write
    In the summer and autumn of 1942, military provocations of Turkey were noticeably more frequent on the land and sea borders with the USSR.
    I would not like unfounded imperative statements, but invoices. Especially regarding the "military provocations on the sea borders" of the USSR. Given the fact that our entire Black Sea Fleet at that time was based in Batumi and Poti. What specifically terrible warship in Turkey could have committed a “military provocation on the sea border of the USSR with Turkey”, when and where exactly?