Military Review

TsAGI announced the definition of the main engine parameters for a supersonic airliner

90
TsAGI announced the definition of the main engine parameters for a supersonic airliner

The Director General of the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute, Cyril Sypalo, told the media that the formation of the appearance of the power plant for a promising supersonic aircraft was completed. A set of basic parameters and characteristics of the engine for a future tool has been determined. aviation.


Recall that a few years ago, the need for development in the field of supersonic passenger aviation was announced by President Vladimir Putin. According to him, such aircraft in Russia will be relevant in connection with the scale of our country.

The aircraft can be created on the basis of the military concept of Tu-160.

RIA News leads a statement by the TsAGI CEO:

An important requirement for such an aircraft is to provide the required thrust and relatively low specific fuel consumption of the engine at a supersonic cruising flight speed.

According to him, the choice of the type and characteristics of an aircraft engine, the provision of work at critical points of the trajectory without loss of thrust, have a major impact not only on the fuel and economic, but also on the environmental components.

In particular, the parameters of reduced noise, including noise reduction of the so-called exhaust stream, are determined. This is especially true for supersonic aircraft.

Specific parameters and engine characteristics have not yet been named.

Completion of work on the concept of a passenger supersonic airliner is scheduled for 2021. Total expenses for this stage of work are determined at the level of more than 700 million rubles.
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 12 May 2020 06: 31 New
    0
    Beliberdos, as he is.
    including noise reduction of the so-called exhaust jet
    laughing
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 12 May 2020 11: 04 New
      +6
      Strong expression - exhaust pipe! + Vladimir!
      1. seacap
        seacap 12 May 2020 13: 21 New
        +1
        interesting, but what percentage of power will the catalyst and the silencer take away?
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 12 May 2020 14: 38 New
          0
          Another 700 million, if not more. Appetite comes with eating.
    2. Pavlik K.
      Pavlik K. 12 May 2020 23: 39 New
      0
      Yeah, menager .... Actually, "the outflow of the jet in the pipeline or pvd", emnip.
  2. Zhan
    Zhan 12 May 2020 06: 32 New
    +3
    It would be interesting to see the layout of a promising aircraft.
    Completion of work on the concept of a passenger supersonic airliner is scheduled for 2021. Total expenses for this stage of work are determined at the level of more than 700 million rubles.

    Hmmm, and the amount is not so big at the present time for this type of work.
    1. viktor_ui
      viktor_ui 12 May 2020 06: 44 New
      +3
      "It would be interesting to see the layout of a promising aircraft." - the wheels are visible, and the rest will be completed by imagination, because they (the landing gear) directly affect the exhaust (financial) of this concept based on the Tu-160 wink
      1. Paul Siebert
        Paul Siebert 12 May 2020 08: 57 New
        -6
        Quote: viktor_ui
        "It would be interesting to see the layout of a promising aircraft." - the wheels are visible, and the rest will be completed by imagination, because they (the landing gear) directly affect the exhaust (financial) of this concept based on the Tu-160

        For me it is not at all clear - why create an airliner based on the Tu-160 bomber?
        Because Putin decided so?
        It turns out - we are following the path of the early Hitlerite state, when combat vehicles were created on the basis of civilian airliner models.
        Only we launched this process 180 degrees.
        From the military we sculpt the civilian ...
        What for?
        What Treaty of Versailles forces us to do this?
        Why not create a civilian vehicle based on, say, the Tu-144?
        It’s more logical after all ...
        It already initially laid the possibility of transporting passengers, not bombs and missiles.
        And in metal, this plane took off.
        Well, think of it, it crashed in Le Bourget.
        It happens.
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 12 May 2020 09: 21 New
          -10
          Well, why? Bribes must be worked out! And the incriminating evidence that is abundantly available on our authorities is also working with might and main. We will suffer this, and even master excellent budgets. The method is proven. Either the sultan dies, or the donkey, or it turns out to go to America. Moreover, the sultan "does not betray his own", steal until you burst.
        2. NordUral
          NordUral 12 May 2020 11: 07 New
          -1
          What for?
          For cut, but for what else. We don’t see ordinary airliners either, only tales about difficulties and the damned West that prevent them. Stalin, no matter how disturbed, but nothing came of this matter.
        3. Piramidon
          Piramidon 12 May 2020 12: 01 New
          +9
          Quote: Paul Siebert
          It turns out - we are following the path of the early Hitlerite state, when combat vehicles were created on the basis of civilian airliner models.
          Only we launched this process 180 degrees.
          From the military we sculpt the civilian ...

          We have experience. From Tu-16 - Tu-104 and from Tu-95 - Tu-114 made. Quite normal cars for their time. Why not continue.
          1. Marconi41
            Marconi41 12 May 2020 13: 06 New
            +4
            Quote: Piramidon
            We have experience. From Tu-16 - Tu-104 and from Tu-95 - Tu-114 made. Quite normal cars for their time.

            Absolutely right! The Tu-144 was never brought to mind, and the Tu-160 has been flying for a long time. And if you manage to make economical engines for him, even with a loss of speed, then this will be luck.
            1. Motorist
              Motorist 12 May 2020 21: 43 New
              0
              if you can make economical engines for him

              Fuel economy at supersonic won't work, just the opposite due to the large wave resistance. This refers to the waves that the aircraft creates. Here either a pipe - or a jug ... request
              1. Marconi41
                Marconi41 12 May 2020 21: 51 New
                0
                Quote: Motorist
                if you can make economical engines for him

                Fuel economy at supersonic won't work, just the opposite due to the large wave resistance. This refers to the waves that the aircraft creates. Here either a pipe - or a jug ... request

                I’m not saying that the economy will be like a simple airplane, but the passenger’s power does not seem to be necessary either.
                1. Motorist
                  Motorist 12 May 2020 22: 00 New
                  0
                  Why "a little supersonic"? what The gain in flight time is proportional to speed, and the losses depend on the cube, plus a sharp jump in wave losses. Illogical.
                  1. Marconi41
                    Marconi41 12 May 2020 22: 01 New
                    0
                    Why a little bit? The speed may remain almost the same, because the load will be much less than that of the TU-160.
                    1. Motorist
                      Motorist 12 May 2020 22: 09 New
                      0
                      I'm generally talking about civilian supersonic - it will be a little expensive for passengers. There will be no market, it will justify itself only under communism (without sarcasm). hi
                      1. Marconi41
                        Marconi41 12 May 2020 22: 12 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Motorist
                        I'm generally talking about civilian supersonic - it will be a little expensive for passengers. There will be no market, it will justify itself only under communism (without sarcasm).

                        I don’t argue with this, but Concord did not fly a couple of years. Maybe the Saudi princes will want to move quickly, well, or fat uncles. On the other hand, jet passenger planes were also a curiosity at the time and could not boast of great economy. Time goes by - everything changes.
                      2. Motorist
                        Motorist 12 May 2020 22: 17 New
                        +1
                        Here I also agree. But this narrow sector of the market must first be occupied, and then held. Task...
                      3. Pavlik K.
                        Pavlik K. 12 May 2020 23: 49 New
                        0
                        Do not try commerce on the Bentley F-1-camel race. There is a request for (in this case, speed), it is necessary from apple to London for 2.40. Tu-160 absolutely nothing to do with it. there is a bunch of best practices (even in metal), why not chase (piece goods, there will be demand). I have big doubts not in our engineers, but in our brainless manager-officials.
                      4. Motorist
                        Motorist 13 May 2020 00: 20 New
                        +1
                        Pavel, I'm not talking about commerce (in the first commentary), but about energy conservation [in the correct sense of the word]. I was taught "thermodynamic culture" at one time. There is no point in overspending fuel just "for fun". IMHO
      2. Pavel73
        Pavel73 13 May 2020 17: 29 New
        0
        Firstly, the Tu-160 is not designed for continuous flight at supersonic speeds. This is a combat aircraft, not a transport one. Supersound for him is a short-term mode, with devouring the mass of fuel and greatly reducing the flight range. Secondly, the design of the combat Tu-160 differs from the requirements for a passenger aircraft much more than did the Tu-104, for example, differ from its military prototype Tu-16. It is enough to recall the variable geometry of the wing, which greatly complicates and complicates the aircraft. For a combat aircraft, this may be justified, but it is absolutely not needed on a passenger airliner. And thirdly, who and where will fly on it? Which lice? Concord was decommissioned not at all because of the disaster. And because of unprofitability. The ticket price was exorbitant, and was not worth the time savings that it gave compared to, for example, a Boeing 747. Exactly for the same reason the Tu-144 was decommissioned, just because of our poverty we understood this much earlier. Accidents and catastrophes that happened with the Tu-144 would not have led to its cancellation, had it been economically viable. What is the point of stepping on the same rake again?
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 12 May 2020 13: 28 New
      +3
      Quote: Piramidon
      We have experience. From Tu-16 - Tu-104 and from Tu-95 - Tu-114 made. Quite normal cars for their time. Why not continue.

      Seriously? Have you seen the layout and design of the TU-160? I’m very interested to know where passengers are going to sit there ... yeah ... with the same success, you can also make a passenger airliner from Almaty.
      The very idea of ​​making a passenger version of TU-160 is an idiot, moreover in a chronic form. Starting from the fact that the very layout of this bomber is stupidly such that in order to have passengers take seats there, it is necessary to redesign the design of the entire aircraft, that is, in essence, create a new aircraft. Secondly, is the price of tickets for such drina and most importantly, where do you get 100-200 passengers on such an airplane, so that it would all be profitable? Third ... airfields. This device will not sit on every airfield. Enough for you?
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon 12 May 2020 13: 49 New
        +4
        Quote: NEXUS
        Seriously? Have you seen the layout and design of the TU-160? I’m very interested to know where passengers are going to sit there ... yeah ... with the same success, you can also make a passenger airliner from Almaty.

        I saw and studied the design and layout of the Tu-16 and Tu-95, and also flew many times on the Tu-104 and Tu-114. Passengers in them felt quite comfortable (especially in the Tu-114). You, apparently, have a very vague idea about this.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 12 May 2020 13: 52 New
          0
          Quote: Piramidon
          I saw and studied the design and layout of the Tu-16 and Tu-95, and also flew many times on the Tu-104 and Tu-114. Passengers in them felt quite comfortable (especially in the Tu-114). You, apparently, have a very vague idea about this.

          Dear, I’m not talking about TU-104 and not about TU-114, but about TU-160! Or is it all the same for you, that subsonic bomber, that supersonic?
          Have you watched fuel consumption at 160? How much will a ticket for this device cost? Where do you get so many rich people on one flight to make it profitable?
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 12 May 2020 13: 58 New
            +3
            Quote: NEXUS
            You fuel consumption watched at 160. How much will a ticket for this device cost?

            And you, apparently, flipped through the topic of the article and immediately began to comment on the comments? About the engines, including the expense in it. I think that no one is going to stupidly change only the fuselage to the Tu160, leaving everything else unchanged
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 12 May 2020 14: 04 New
              0
              Quote: Piramidon
              And you, apparently, flipped through the topic of the article and immediately began to comment on the comments? About the engines, including the expense in it. I think that no one is going to stupidly change only the fuselage to the Tu160, leaving everything else unchanged

              That’s what I’m talking about! That is, we’re going to redesign the plane so that it will not be a TU-160, but something completely new. The question is, why do we need this button accordion? Will he pay for himself? It needs appropriate airfields, passengers with a very thick wallet, I don’t even say how much you will and the development of this suitcase without a handle will cost me.
              Patriotism is good then, respected, when there is reasonableness and understanding behind it. And if you read your words about making a civilian TU-160, ... hooray, give it! ... this is not patriotism, but elementary stupid wrecking.
              1. Piramidon
                Piramidon 12 May 2020 14: 27 New
                +3
                Quote: NEXUS
                The question is, why do we need this button accordion? Will he pay for himself? It needs appropriate airfields, passengers with a very thick wallet

                This is another topic. Initially, our dialogue with you began with your questions about fuel consumption and passenger accommodation. And I answered you. As for yours - why do you need it, then here I will probably agree with you. hi A multi-seater supersonic airliner will not pay for itself in our conditions, and for "Buratins", which do not consider money as banknotes, but in bundles, an airplane would be enough for two dozen seats, including their dogs.
                Py.Sy. Let them think about the re-equipment of the Tu-22M3 lol
                1. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 13 May 2020 20: 49 New
                  0
                  Quote: Piramidon
                  Let them think about the re-equipment of the Tu-22M3

                  I would look towards the Su-34. It is possible to get 6-8 seats to clear his huge cabin of military equipment. Of the new, only armchairs and illuminators embed.
                  wink
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 12 May 2020 17: 53 New
          +1
          And why are you "in love" with Tu-104 (Tu-16) and Tu-114 (Tu-95)? When I was .. (and now, in my opinion, there is ...) Tu-144! Why not refine it ?! Moreover, they have already begun to do this ... but did not have time! Tu-244 I mean! There were also messages that appeared after the president's "Wishlist" that the Tu-244 would be finalized ... One can also recall the "promises" of the administrative class (this is in Soviet style ...) or "business class" in the "western" style .. that is, Tu-344, Tu-444 ... Tu-344, as I remember, was going to be made on the basis of Tu-22M3 ...
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 12 May 2020 19: 29 New
            0
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            And why are you "in love" with Tu-104 (Tu-16) and Tu-114 (Tu-95)?

            It was just an example of converting a military aircraft into a civilian one, not a "fudge". Read our full dialogue and see what my answer was.
          2. Marconi41
            Marconi41 12 May 2020 21: 56 New
            0
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            Tu -144! Why not refine it ?!

            Unfortunately, the Tu-144 was not brought to mind. That is why he was first transferred to freight transport (he carried mail), and then the program was completely closed. So to return to it is the same as to return to Buran - beautiful, but not real.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 13 May 2020 02: 40 New
              +2
              Quote: Marconi41
              Unfortunately, the Tu-144 was not brought to mind. So to return to it is the same as returning to "Buran" - beautiful, but not real

              Perhaps ... But there was also a Tu-244 project! From my own experience I know that, sometimes, when you undertake to alter or correct something, you quickly come to the conclusion that it would be more expedient to do everything anew ... "from scratch"! It is possible that the aircraft designers also thought so ... and abandoning the Tu-144, took up the Tu-244 ... but did not have time!
    3. seacap
      seacap 12 May 2020 13: 28 New
      +3
      yes, only the requirements for a commercial airliner and a missile carrier are completely different, in particular fuel consumption and engine noise, even if not to mention the economic component of operation, the Soviet Union and its company Aeroflot could afford it, and for a modern country, replacing the An-2 problem.
    4. orionvitt
      orionvitt 12 May 2020 14: 20 New
      0
      Quote: Piramidon
      Why not continue

      The whole point is that supersonic airliners are absolutely not profitable. The operation of the "Concorde" was provided by the exceptionally huge cost of tickets. And here, flights of TU-144, and in general, "political expediency". Putin blurted out the insignificant, that they say "it would not be bad", so it went. Of course, yes, it is possible and even necessary to continue, but not at the current level of aviation technologies, which, to be honest, have not changed much over the past 60 years. Either there will be a technological breakthrough (new physical principles, or something else), or it's all just chatter.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 12 May 2020 14: 49 New
        +2
        Quote: orionvitt
        The whole question is that supersonic liners are absolutely not cost-effective.

        To date, profitability in supersonic civil aviation can be ONLY in the JET option for 20-30 people. And then, for some corporations, and not for mere mortals.
  3. VO3A
    VO3A 12 May 2020 14: 17 New
    -3
    The aircraft can be created on the basis of the military concept of Tu-160.

    The concept of TU-160 is imperfect ... There are many opinions about the futility, uselessness and excessive cost of this dinosaur with an outdated design ... This is a political symbol of the country, no more ... From a military point of view, it is useless .... Renewal, and more precisely, the restoration of its production is necessary in preparation for the creation of PAK YES ... And .. everything ... Maybe five new ones will be made .... And so this dinosaur with an irrational and outdated variable wing sweep is not needed by anyone ..
  4. Alexandra
    Alexandra 13 May 2020 17: 37 New
    0
    Quote: Zhan
    It would be interesting to see the layout of a promising aircraft.


  5. Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 13 May 2020 20: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Paul Siebert
    From the military we sculpt the civilian ...

    Not the first time:
    Tu-114 and Tu-104 civil aircraft created on the basis of bombers.
    That's about creating a civilian based on the T-160, I doubt it very much. If they create a supersonic civilian, then it will most likely be a small plane (for wealthy businessmen who save their time)
  • Mitroha
    Mitroha 12 May 2020 06: 45 New
    +3
    some years ago the need for development in the field of supersonic passenger aviation was announced by President Vladimir Putin

    CAI General Director Kirill Sypalo informed appearance formation completed power plant for a promising supersonic aircraft. A set of basic parameters and engine characteristics

    Rukalitso. With such a speed of work, it is possible to transfer "promising" developments by inheritance.
  • ancient
    ancient 12 May 2020 12: 05 New
    +3
    Quote: Zhan
    concept work

    For "preparatory" work .... the money is just .... "very big" (to find out if it is needed at all, and what we get from this, and whether there will be an opportunity, etc. but ... right there it is reported that - .. "Director General of the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute Kirill Sypalo told media representatives that that the formation of the appearance of the power plant is completed for a promising supersonic aircraft. How is it ???? There is no concept yet, but .. the "look" has already been formed and even ..... "A set of basic parameters and characteristics of the engine for the future aircraft has been determined."
    What about TTT? or "the elder said" and .... "rushed"? recourse
  • Sky strike fighter
    Sky strike fighter 12 May 2020 17: 12 New
    0
    Quote: Zhan
    It would be interesting to see the layout of a promising aircraft.
    Completion of work on the concept of a passenger supersonic airliner is scheduled for 2021. Total expenses for this stage of work are determined at the level of more than 700 million rubles.

    Hmmm, and the amount is not so big at the present time for this type of work.


    You can hammer into a search engine and see a demonstrator of the Swift SGS technology complex, a model of which was presented at MAKS-2019.
    In Russia, in the framework of research work, in addition to case studies in the interests of developing key technologies of the new generation of SGS, great attention is also paid to the creation of an integral flight demonstrator aircraft. So, in 2019, TsAGI developed a technical proposal for a demonstrator of the Strizh SGS technology complex, the layout of which was presented at MAKS-2019. The successful implementation of the program of this flight demonstrator will make it possible, in a short time and ahead of world competitors, to develop a competitive light class SGS, to form a unique scientific and technical reserve of a high level of technological readiness in the interests of creating a medium and heavy class SGS.

    - Why can not just modify an existing aircraft, for example, the Tu-160?
    - The existing scientific and technical backlog obtained during the creation of military aviation equipment facilities is not sufficient to create a technology demonstrator, and even more so, an efficient and promising general purpose GHS, and can only be used partially in the development of aircraft systems and power plants. In addition, it is necessary that the full range of key technologies and technical solutions should be implemented at the technology demonstrator, which should be worked out in the field to confirm their effectiveness and feasibility.

    - When can such a demonstrator appear and on the basis of which aircraft is it planned to be created?
    - According to our calculations and with the availability of funding, such a demonstrator should appear by 2023. Obviously, this experimental aircraft is cheaper and easier to do on the basis of a donor aircraft, since the main goal is to verify in the flight experiment the correctness of the critical technologies selected: aerodynamic appearance, location, shape and size of air intakes, nozzle devices and the like. Most likely, such a donor will be the MiG-29 along with standard engines, those aircraft and on-board systems with which it is equipped. Of course, you can’t talk about a full-fledged supersonic business aircraft here, it is rather a prototype demonstrator.

    https://www.aex.ru/m/fdocs/2/2020/5/12/31328/
  • Alf
    Alf 12 May 2020 20: 02 New
    0
    Quote: Zhan
    It would be interesting to see the layout of a promising aircraft.
    Completion of work on the concept of a passenger supersonic airliner is scheduled for 2021. Total expenses for this stage of work are determined at the level of more than 700 million rubles.

    Hmmm, and the amount is not so big at the present time for this type of work.

    This is just the beginning ...
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 12 May 2020 06: 32 New
    +9
    Another stupid thing from a professional.
    Russian scientist, teacher and scientific and administrative figure in the field of spacecraft control systems, professor at the Moscow Aviation Institute (MAI), doctor of technical sciences, professor at the Russian Academy of Sciences [2], corresponding member [3] of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
    Although the loot is necessary to cut.
    Recall that a few years ago, the need for development in the field of supersonic passenger aviation was announced by President Vladimir Putin. According to him, such aircraft in Russia will be relevant in connection with the scale of our country.
    They slipped a piece of GDP into GDP, he read out the noodles, and ... we cannot replace AN-2, eh ..... recourse
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 12 May 2020 06: 37 New
      +6
      With him, our eternal problem is the engine.
      1. Zhan
        Zhan 12 May 2020 06: 51 New
        -4
        Quote: K-612-O
        With him, our eternal problem is the engine.

        hi
        And not only ours. smile At all times, or a problem in the engine or in the gasket, between the helm and the seat ... laughing
        1. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 12 May 2020 10: 42 New
          +7
          Quote: Zhan
          or in the gasket, between the helm and the chair ...

          Well, suggest solutions, conduct a comparative analysis of the training of modern pilots ...
          The fact that individual characters do not cope is not a reason make sounds by the brain, this is a system problem that needs to be solved, not ...
        2. ancient
          ancient 12 May 2020 12: 11 New
          +7
          Quote: Zhan
          At all times, or a problem in the engine

          And what about the "problems" in the systems of takeoff and landing mechanization and wing mechanization? And in the landing gear and retract systems? And what about the fuel automation? And what about the SPG? etc. etc.
          Quote: Zhan
          between the helm and the chair.

          Very .. "foul" expression .. apologize for my .. "french" ... VERY negative
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 12 May 2020 18: 29 New
            +4
            Quote: ancient
            Quote: Zhan
            between the helm and the chair.

            Very .. "foul" expression .. apologize for my .. "french" ... VERY

            You’re diplomatic, he didn’t deserve it. We all drive cars, but Mickey Lauda are real units, and only they drive cars. The man who did not pass school and who didn’t make decisions on his own - please refrain ...
            1. ancient
              ancient 12 May 2020 19: 07 New
              +1
              Quote: Pete Mitchell
              Ec you diplomatically

              Whose .. "school"? wink
              1. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 12 May 2020 19: 12 New
                +2
                Quote: ancient
                Whose .. "school"?

                My repeat laughing
                1. Pete mitchell
                  Pete mitchell 12 May 2020 19: 47 New
                  +3
                  You know, as a lieutenant I thought twice before opening my mouth, it wasn’t customary, although they listened as expected, tradition however ...
    2. Doccor18
      Doccor18 12 May 2020 07: 00 New
      +6
      The USSR is much larger in territory, but there, according to the TU-144, in the distant 1978, the torment was completed. And then the "super-rich"
      Russia decided to create something fundamentally new ...
      It would be better if the normal passenger airliner was brought to mind.
      1. 1_2
        1_2 12 May 2020 12: 16 New
        0
        MC21 is already flying, and supersonic is being made for the oligarchs of the planet, the Russian Federation can produce supersonic business jet for export, in the USA they are also working on such a business plane
        1. Piramidon
          Piramidon 12 May 2020 14: 47 New
          +1
          Quote: 1_2
          supersonic make for the oligarchs of the planet

          These large crowds do not fly. It would be quite enough to convert the bomb bay into a passenger compartment on some sort of Su-34, well, or, in extreme cases, the Tu-22M3. lol There is a precedent, again. With minimal effort, the Tu-95 turned into the Tu-116.

          1. ancient
            ancient 12 May 2020 19: 11 New
            +1
            Quote: Piramidon
            There is a precedent, again. With minimal effort, the Tu-95 turned into the Tu-116.

            So yes, but there is ... a nuance .... the passenger compartment hatch is closed and that's it ... "freedom wassat drinks "... upon arrival, the passengers were barely warm .." floated out ", although before the departure from the Far East, the k.k." instructed for a long time - "why ... lzya, and why ... down" and what's the point? wink
  • Crystal of Truth
    Crystal of Truth 12 May 2020 07: 11 New
    -8
    Is it all interesting for the money? All this nonsense
  • Undecim
    Undecim 12 May 2020 07: 18 New
    +9
    The Director General of the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute, Cyril Sypalo, told the media that the formation of the appearance of the power plant for a promising supersonic aircraft was completed. A set of basic parameters and characteristics of the engine for a future aircraft was also determined.
    The author of this masterpiece of hollow, amateurish verbiage is impossible to recognize. In two or three days, he will also issue a detailed article on the same topic.
    In the process of developing any technical product, there is no such stage as "shaping the shape".
    There is a stage of a technical proposal when a set of design documents is created containing an analysis of various options for possible solutions to a customer’s technical specifications, feasibility studies of the proposed options, patent search, etc.
    There is a stage of technical design, that is, the creation of design documents that should contain final technical solutions that give a complete picture of the device of the product being developed and the initial data for the development of working documentation.
    And there is a stage of development of working design documentation - a set of design documents intended for the manufacture and testing of a prototype, installation batch, serial (mass) production of products.
    And appearance is appearance, shape, appearance. What form formation can be discussed in this case?
    A phrase "A set of basic parameters and characteristics of the engine for the future aircraft has also been determined" - This is generally a masterpiece of masterpieces.
    The set of basic parameters and characteristics of the engine for a supersonic aircraft was determined almost a hundred years ago, when in 1937 Frank Whittle launched the first working prototype. It was then that it became finally clear that the "set of basic parameters and characteristics of the engine for the future aircraft" consists of the following parameters:
    Engine thrust.
    Specific fuel consumption (mass of fuel consumed per unit of time to create a unit of thrust / power)
    Air consumption (mass of air passing through each of the engine sections per unit time)
    The degree of increase in total pressure in the compressor
    The gas temperature at the outlet of the combustion chamber.
    Weight and dimensions.
    Since then, nothing has changed. The set remained the same.
    1. Yok Migarek
      Yok Migarek 12 May 2020 10: 15 New
      +4
      Quote: Undecim

      In the process of developing any technical product, there is no such stage as "shaping the shape".
      There is a stage of a technical proposal when a set of design documents is created, ...........

      Do not forget that such articles are written not by professionals, but by journalists. And often, very far from understanding the topic. Do not judge them severely!
      You and I perfectly understood what was at stake.
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon 12 May 2020 12: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: Undecim
      The author of this masterpiece of hollow, amateurish verbiage is impossible to recognize.

      The article is not intended for professionals, but for the general reader, therefore, it was written not in the style of a scientific report, but in a simplified, accessible language.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 12 May 2020 12: 19 New
        +5
        Do you think that if the article is not for mathematicians, then you can write that two times two is approximately from zero to infinity?
        Writing articles on complex technical and scientific issues for an unprofessional audience is a very difficult question, sorry for the tautology. Previously, it was called the popularization of science - the provision of scientific and technical information in an understandable and interesting way to society.
        Milutin Milankovich, Sergey Petrovich Kapitsa, Stephen Hawking, Nikolai Drozdov, Vladimir Surdin and many others - luminaries, popularizers of science. Of modern journalists - Asya Kazantseva.
        And what this author writes is verbiage, which has nothing to do with the stated theme, except for a name that has nothing. This must not be printed! Children can read!
  • Eug
    Eug 12 May 2020 07: 24 New
    +2
    If a private company acts as the customer for research, it also finances them and is vitally interested in returning the invested funds profitably on the planes launched as a result of these studies. In this case, as I understand it, the customer is the state? And what is there to investigate for 700 lyam - TK parameters? I’m wondering how many times they will change during the development process?
  • unhappy
    unhappy 12 May 2020 07: 26 New
    -2
    Advisers to Putin or on the paw received or stupid people. I remember the chords flying over the ocean due to the formation of a shock wave when moving on supersonic. You walk along the street - an explosion! And this is just a concord in the sky flying.
    1. Yok Migarek
      Yok Migarek 12 May 2020 10: 18 New
      +9
      Quote: unhappy
      Advisers to Putin or on the paw received or stupid people. I remember the chords flying over the ocean due to the formation of a shock wave when moving on supersonic. You walk along the street - an explosion! And this is just a concord in the sky flying.

      Flying in a super-sound is allowed at a height of at least 11 m! Believe me, you will not hear any explosion, even when it occurs directly above your head. And Concordas flew over the ocean, because over land from Europe to America there is no way.
      1. ancient
        ancient 12 May 2020 12: 22 New
        +1
        Quote: Yok-Migarek
        Flying in a super-sound is allowed at a height of at least 11 m! Believe me, you will not hear any explosion

        It depends on what type, especially on the Tu-22M2 (when there were still refueling rods) ... a double jump ... when performing a P / Z under the program of military tests in 1979 (AOC Kalinovka, Crimea) when switching to supersonic mode , on echelons 11+ 000, a column of pairs (350nd detachment) ... "laid down" a cannery in the city of Genichensk (no casualties), after which "similar flights" were carried out only at the training grounds of the State Research Institute of the Air Force.
        And so .. when flying according to the UBP plan (flight into the zone at supersonic speed) the Poltava-Sumy zone and back ... so from the local residents of Sumy there were complaints about "explosions" and broken glasses. wink
        PS Then I "accidentally" found out ... that the plane does not want to switch to supersonic with a sweep of 20gr. wassat
      2. unhappy
        unhappy 12 May 2020 14: 34 New
        +1
        I remember two reasons for the end of the concord and one. (watched movies)
        The first is low profitability.
        The second is the shock wave from supersonic. There were flights to Alma-Ata and one of the reasons for the cancellation was that everyone on the flight track heard and was not happy ...
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 12 May 2020 07: 27 New
    +4
    Recall that a few years ago, the need for development in the field of supersonic passenger aviation was announced by President Vladimir Putin. According to him, such aircraft in Russia will be relevant in connection with the scale of our country.

    How is it? Will they still be in demand? How is the SSJ-100 or MS-21? belay And here, in the first half of the twentieth century, the titans of thought prophesied:
    This is the result of thirty-five years of aviation development. History devoted half of this time to the formation of the Air Fleet of socialism, the creation of its mighty power.
    They — Lenin and Stalin — gave brilliant examples of the use of the Red Air Fleet with its backward then material part in the harsh conditions of the civil war, in the unequal struggle with the interventionists of 14 countries.
    They — Lenin and Stalin — in the early days of the use of aviation discerned its enormous significance in the upcoming class battles.
    They - Lenin and Stalin - showed the socialist homeland of the great scientists - the father of Russian aviation prof. N.E. Zhukovsky and the famous scientist K.E. Tsiolkovsky, who won fame and priority for the Russian genius in aviation and aeronautics.

    Only with them, domestic aviation began and was created, giving the USSR dozens of samples of domestic aircraft manufacturing, and here:
    Completion of the concept of a passenger supersonic airliner outlined for the year 2021. Total expenses for this stage of work are determined at the level of more than 700 million rubles.

    And somewhere else, the concepts of warships and models of promising products are gathering dust ...
  • prior
    prior 12 May 2020 07: 44 New
    -2
    In my opinion, the requirement for "reducing the noise of the exhaust jet" should be the last in the list of requirements for a military aircraft, if at all.
    With the noise of jet engines, our pilots reassured the Chinese even during the conflict at Lake Zhalanashkol.
    The roar of jet engines is also a weapon.
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 12 May 2020 07: 53 New
      +2
      Where is it about a military plane mentioned?
      1. prior
        prior 12 May 2020 07: 57 New
        0
        Alas, you are right. The thought was ahead of my eyes. I thought - the engine for PAK YES.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Sergey Valov
    Sergey Valov 12 May 2020 08: 46 New
    +3
    Actually, TsIAM should be engaged in this work, but apparently "Bobby is dead." In theory, such work is useful, it does not allow the brain to atrophy, but they will not wait to wait for a practical exhaust.
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 12 May 2020 08: 48 New
    +2
    700 million not for blueprints, but for only for the concept - that's cool.
    10 million bucks for marketing research - and what you need ....

    Not bad....
    1. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 12 May 2020 09: 08 New
      +6
      Prior to the design of a specific engine, variants of the proposed nozzles, vanes, metals, cooling systems, etc. are being worked out. Variants of all these elements are created in "metal" and tested on stands. This work takes a lot of time and money, and in theory, it should be carried out constantly, regardless of the "plans of the party and government," which was the case before.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 12 May 2020 10: 53 New
        +4

        options for the proposed nozzles, blades, metals, cooling systems, etc.

        This is the direct task of TsIAM. But, apparently, the director of TsAGI is much closer to budget financing than the director of TsIAM (at least for now).
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 12 May 2020 14: 44 New
          0
          The situation is much worse. TsIAM is now organizationally subordinate to TsAGI, plus there are complete seams with personnel in TsIAM; at least two generations have passed by, many stands have stopped forever. So, most likely, either the author of the article is not aware of the realities, or TsAGI begins to engage in tasks unusual for him.
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 12 May 2020 15: 44 New
            0
            TsIAM TsAGI is not subordinate. Above this and the other office, an office was organized under the name "Institute named after NE Zhukovsky". This roof does not have stands and computing centers, it was not created for that. The state of affairs both in TsAGI and in TsIAM is about the same, some of the young people, for example, TsIAM lured away from TsAGI recently.
            TsAGI begins to engage in unusual tasks.

            This has been happening for a long time - on a unique installation left over from the Buran program, oak parquet was dried for a long time, no less than 20 years. Then the owner of this LLC fled with decent funds.
            1. Sergey Valov
              Sergey Valov 12 May 2020 16: 37 New
              0
              “TsIAM TsAGI is not subordinate” - I won’t argue, I’ll ask, on occasion, my colleagues.
              “The situation in both TsAGI and TsIAM is about the same” - sad, I did not know that TsAGI was just as bad.
              1. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 12 May 2020 18: 11 New
                0
                This office is a gasket over institutes, I don’t know about LII, it is under this gasket, or outside. But there is no better place than in the mentioned institutions.
                1. Sergey Valov
                  Sergey Valov 12 May 2020 19: 44 New
                  0
                  Thank you, very sad.
      2. ancient
        ancient 12 May 2020 12: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: Sergey Valov
        Prior to the design of a specific engine, variants of the proposed nozzles, vanes, metals, cooling systems, etc. are being worked out.

        So yes, but .. what does TsAGI have to do with it? belay
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 12 May 2020 14: 39 New
          0
          Have you read the article title?
          1. ancient
            ancient 12 May 2020 19: 06 New
            0
            Quote: Sergey Valov
            Have you read the article title?

            Yes ... and not just the headline, so what? request
            1. Sergey Valov
              Sergey Valov 12 May 2020 19: 45 New
              0
              And the fact that we are talking about TsAGI.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 12 May 2020 09: 34 New
    +1
    In principle, a supersonic passenger plane was created long ago, even 50 years ago with us, the Tu-144 and in the west of Concord. The main thing now is to create an economical engine, but where is the guarantee that once again there will not be some kind of crap lying on the strip, because of which another disaster can happen. Although I have doubts about this version. Imagine how many sorties take place around the world, both military and civilian, and it had to happen to Concord.
  • Vitaly Tsymbal
    Vitaly Tsymbal 12 May 2020 10: 59 New
    +7
    Friends I have galyuniki or something started ???? In the heading about the "engine" in the photo "wheels" .... Maybe it's time for me to go to the psychiatric hospital because of inadequate understanding of the relationship between words and photos ?????)))))
  • NordUral
    NordUral 12 May 2020 11: 02 New
    +1
    Balabol at balabol (I'm not talking about comments).
  • yfast
    yfast 12 May 2020 11: 27 New
    +3
    Quote: Undecim
    Since then, nothing has changed. The set remained the same.

    But 700 million. disappeared somewhere ...
    1. notingem
      notingem 12 May 2020 12: 03 New
      0
      Shaw again? Come in if that
  • g_ae
    g_ae 12 May 2020 12: 44 New
    +2
    Cyril Showered, Ambrose Vybegallo. Probably relatives.
  • fa2998
    fa2998 12 May 2020 18: 00 New
    0
    Quote: Zhan
    Hmmm, and the amount is not so big at the present time for this type of work.

    Well, yes! "Creation of a concept" - and the creation of a flying model will result in hundreds of billions. Will we build with budget money? And then we will give it to air carriers for free? Good market, budget development at the expense of taxpayers! hi