Military Review

Economical Humanity

195

Among the probabilistic worlds generated by the Distorted World, one is exactly like our world; the other is similar to our world in everything, except for one single particular, the third is similar to our world in everything, except for two particulars, and so on ... Partly it was not important, because nothing lasts forever under the moon, except for our illusions. But no one wants his illusions to be in jeopardy, and so Marvin tried to find out what kind of world he was. Is he on Earth or on her take? Is there a noticeable detail that does not correspond to the Earth where he was born? Or maybe there are several such details? Marvin looked for them in the name of his peace of mind. He went around Stanhope and its environs, inspected, explored and checked the flora and fauna.

Everything turned out to be in its place. Life went on as usual; father grazed rat herds, mother, as always, laid eggs placidly.
Robert Sheckley. Mind exchange.


Dear readers of Military Review!

I registered on the site in 2015 and for five years, albeit virtually, met many wonderful people. I always liked to participate in discussions of various topics or just read articles. I think that I was very lucky in my time to discover this platform of diverse opinions, to find new knowledge in my hobby history. For all this time I didn’t really talk about my profession, although some very shrewd people figured it out. The reason why I did not talk about how I earn my daily bread does not lie in my secrecy. The reason is that the profession of a psychiatrist, as well as another medical specialty - a pathologist, causes any person to have an internal feeling of some discomfort, vague anxiety. And if in the latter case, a person, as it were, bears the shadow of death, then as far as my specialty is concerned, I could not determine what exactly guards people around with the word “psychiatrist”. Of course, the explanation usually follows: what if the doctor sees that something is wrong with me? .. I think this is not all that a person feels when communicating with the “brainwave” in an informal setting. Why? In my opinion, the reason is similar. As with the pathologist, this is a feeling of the very “shadow of death."

Yes, a mental illness does not literally lead to death, but if it happened that a loved one was sick, relatives would suddenly see that he had changed radically. Outwardly, he is the same, his memory is the same, but his behavior, views, attitudes towards others have changed significantly. It was as if something had taken hold, enslaved him, replaced the one whom his relatives loved with an alien, unfamiliar creature and often very dangerous. By the way, patients themselves often talk about this. The feeling of “internal change” is one of the characteristic symptoms of the so-called initial period, when formally the disease does not exist yet.

So what is mental illness? In the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) of the tenth revision, he assigned the heading F00 to F99, which addresses various diseases, disorders, pathological conditions. But the most important of the entire list of diseases is, of course, schizophrenia.

What is it? Currently, it is believed that the cause of its appearance is a genetic predisposition, that is, a person born with a certain set of genes can get sick sooner or later. Moreover, there is no direct inheritance, as in type 1 diabetes mellitus or hemophilia. After all, the psyche is determined by a very large set of genetic material. That is, almost anyone can get sick. And when they say, they say, “there were no crazy people in our family”, this does not mean anything. It used to be, but now it is.

How does the disease manifest? I’ll try to explain. In the name itself lies the German word meaning “split” in Russian. The various components of mental activity: memory, thinking, emotions, will, as a result of illness, become unrelated to one degree or another. Plus hallucinations of a diverse nature, but mostly auditory, painful ideas (delirium) and the emerging Kandinsky-Clerambo phenomenon, when a person feels his control from the side. The syndrome concerns both motor functions and mental. For example, a patient claims that they are watching with his eyes, they think for him, they move him like a puppet. The basis of these disorders is an excess of the neurotransmitter called dopamine.

Based on this knowledge, modern medicine uses medicinal substances - antipsychotics, which restore dopamine to a normal amount. The history of their creation and use begins in the mid-50s of the last century, after the synthesis of such a well-known drug as chlorpromazine. Then a whole series of various drugs arose that could not only stop severe painful experiences, but also enable a person to live a full life - that is, hardly anyone from around would be able to discern in him a former patient of the “house of sorrow”.

But it was not always so. At different times, psychiatric patients tried to "treat" in various ways. For example, readers of Military Review have already become acquainted with the Nazi version of “treatment”. This is the so-called T-4 program. The program got its name due to the fact that the administration of the Reich Workers' Community for the Treatment and Care of Patients (good name, nothing sinister) was located at Tiergartenstrasse 4. As you know, the Germans had a reputation for practical people. In practice, they decided to prove that people with disabilities and mentally disabled people can be "treated" in only one way: "there is no person - there is no problem." As the savages considered, mental patients literally eat up resources. Therefore, this problem was thoroughly approached. For example, six psychiatric hospitals have been converted to "euthanasia institutes." In them economical Nazis installed gas chambers and cremation furnaces. Patients who were prescribed "euthanasia" were photographed and taken under escort to a gas chamber disguised as a shower. The “doctor” turned on the gas for 10-15 minutes, and after about an hour the bodies were sent to a cremation furnace. Also in the “treatment” they used hunger or special feeding methods (diet E), which consisted of the following: black coffee or tea for breakfast, boiled vegetables for lunch and dinner, for example, spinach, cabbage, potatoes. Meat and other animal products were banned. Periodically, patients were allowed to eat “from the belly” - and as a result, mortality pleased the creators of the program. And if in the Reich itself the cannibals still looked back at the opinion of the Catholic Church and the public and somehow masked their actions, then after the outbreak of war in the occupied countries they did not constrain themselves: a bullet, a fire, a caterpillar tank sent to the “best of the worlds” the number of those people who were not fully calculated who couldn’t benefit at the Krupp or Messerschmitt factories due to their painful condition. In Germany itself, the victims of "optimization" were under 180 thousand.

The next method of "treatment" became popular in the 50s in the main country of democracy - the United States. In 1949, a man who was not even a professional doctor, Egash Monish, received the Nobel Prize "for discovering the therapeutic effect of leukotomy in certain mental illnesses." The term "leukotomy" means a dissection of the white matter of the brain. As a result of this operation, while still experimenting with monkeys, it was noticed that violent primates became calm and peaceful. The most significant award - the Nobel name - was an excellent advertisement for this procedure. And this despite the fact that there were objections from doctors and scientists who did not sell their conscience and opposed this method of pacification. And despite the fact that they said that the consequences of the procedure are extremely serious, irreversible mental disorders. Nobody began to listen to them, since the motives of economic feasibility outweighed all reasonable arguments. How can it be: now patients can no longer be kept in hospitals, but in the form of "vegetables" can be given to relatives! Moreover, the operation itself was extremely simplified. Without drilling bones: they began to carry out surgical intervention with a simple knife for chopping ice! A thin layer of the eye bone was pierced with a knife and a surgical hammer, after which fibers of white matter were dissected with a knife. The author was the American Lefty, a man with a medical background (neurologist) Walter Freeman. And it began. In four years, from 1949 to 1952, only 5000 lobotomies were made in the United States alone. Since the early 1950s, this level has reached 5000 per year. In total, from 1950 to 40000 Americans did a lobotomy until the late 50000s. Think about these numbers!

Freeman himself personally performed 3500 operations, traveling around the country in a van, which he called lobotomobile. Lobotomy (leukotomy) put on a wide commercial footing. In this way, they began to "treat" not only "violent" patients with schizophrenia, but also people with various problems in behavior and even children. But what if the wife or husband bothered you, if the child is uncontrollable, call and the problem will be solved ... Consequences: decreased intelligence, severe depression, urinary incontinence, overweight, impaired motor function up to paralysis, convulsive seizures. In addition, sometimes the fibers of white matter sprouted back, and violent behavior was restored. Up to a quarter of patients, as Freeman said, became “pets”, 2-6 percent died after surgery. In the end, the scientific community still rose, and even ordinary people, and by the 60s, “lobotomy” was banned.

But what happened in another camp, different from the developed democracies, in the country of the Gulag and mass executions? That's right, some readers have guessed: they decided not to bother and stop at the "mass executions." Just kidding. In the USSR, as in a barbarian state, blindly, as now, they did not adopt the Western experience. To begin with, we conducted research, made only 400 (four hundred!) Operations and came to the conclusion about their inhumanity. All. The newspaper "Pravda" noted the article: “One example of the impotence of bourgeois medicine is the widely used“ new method of treating ”mental illness in American psychiatry - lobotomy (leukotomy) ... Naturally, among our doctors, brought up in the spirit of the glorious traditions of the great humanists - Botkin, Pirogov, Korsakov, armed with the teachings of I.P. Pavlov, there can be no place for such "treatment methods" as lobotomy. Nevertheless, we also found people who liked this transatlantic fruit of pseudoscience. Back in 1944, Professor M. A. Goldenberg, the head of the Department of Psychiatry at the Gorky Medical Institute, performed an operation using the lobotomy method ... ” Poor Goldenberg, most likely, after this article received another: another innocent victim of Stalinist repression. On December 9, 1950, Order No. 1003 of the USSR Ministry of Health appeared, which prohibited lobotomy.

I will return to where I started. Dear readers of Military Review, in the history of medicine and its component - psychiatry, there were a lot of things. In my opinion, what is happening in recent times is very far from true humanity. Only in the last 70 years several attempts have been made to radically solve the problem of “unnecessary”, “superfluous” people. What they didn’t do with them, but all the same, the percentage of the same schizophrenia remains the same (2-3 per population) and even after the total destruction of carriers of the “wrong genes”, as in Germany. Questions arise: maybe they, these people, are for some reason needed in society, maybe we will cease to be people without them?

But officials are not accustomed to reflect on such issues. Again, anti-scientific concepts are invented in which the main refrain is: “Down with the hospitals!” Of course, everything is under the sauce of humanity, socialization: boo, boo, boo, blah, blah, blah. We socialize them, we want to return them to their families, relatives! But where do you get the time that is meant for the drug to work? Where do you get the individual work of the doctor with the patient? How to regulate the time for contact, the emergence of trust between the doctor and the patient, who, for example, has delusions of persecution? And without all this, patients lose hope for the future. They will face a prison, grave, heating main.

Medical workers of the Angarsk branch of the Irkutsk neuropsychiatric hospital continue the struggle for the life and health of their patients. We will be grateful to all those who care for their support! The most important thing is to bring to people information about what is happening with medicine, with psychiatry in our state.
Author:
Photos used:
Gerd Altmann
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  1. Oleg Skvortsov
    Oleg Skvortsov 11 May 2020 06: 42 New
    22
    When a lot of people lived in the world, then naturally I saw a lot and came across mentally ill people. It is impossible to cure them at all, but humanism is precisely what needs to be cured, even for small minutes of enlightenment. I had occasion to visit the regional mental hospital somehow — they work there mainly in departments not for the sharp and violent — women aged and from surrounding villages, towns, and villages. Beggarly salary. some benefits, daily schedule. City go only to senior positions. In general, thanks to our doctors for the fact that many continue to fulfill their medical and human duty to the sick. Fight for your rights.
    1. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 11 May 2020 08: 09 New
      10
      Quote: Oleg Skvortsov
      Fight for your rights.

      if you need to fight for rights, it’s not rights but privileges ... The doctors were pushed away from solving the problem of combating the “epidemic,” the epidemic is in quotation marks because it does not fit the definition of an epidemic. Soon, the normal protest of the politicians will be called schizophrenia and mass lobotomy of the population will begin. The USSR and Stalin are now gone. Only politicians do not understand that after the country collapses they will die and they ... no money and merits will save.
    2. Snail N9
      Snail N9 11 May 2020 08: 54 New
      -2
      Um, "mentally" sick people ... There are certainly inadequate people, I don’t argue ..... Someone said, I don’t remember exactly who, but from famous people, as if not Freud himself, that psychiatry is actually false science, if you follow the postulates of this science, then "mentally unhealthy" can be absolutely recognized, any person .....
      1. avva2012
        11 May 2020 09: 11 New
        +9
        Perhaps you have read the article inattentively. The theory associated with dopamine is supplemented and confirmed every year. Read serious scientific literature on this topic and you will no longer have unfounded allegations that "psychiatry is actually a false science."
        1. dauria
          dauria 11 May 2020 15: 26 New
          +6
          there will be no more unfounded allegations that "psychiatry is actually a false science."

          Do not pay attention, Alexander. Of course, science. No less complicated than any. And her road is unusual - disassemble the finished complex into simple parts. As if the engineers of the 70s got a modern laptop. Without documentation, test programs, flash drives and disks, the Internet. And you need to figure it out from the first clock cycle of the processor - like what.
          Someday, psychiatrists, digging from above, and biologists, digging from below, will draw a schematic diagram, write the "source" of all the programs of all the "chips".
          It will be an incredibly complex scheme, and one person can not do it. But she will be.
          And you have something like advice. People again become people when they see death, illness ... A trip to an oncology dispensary or a psychiatric hospital - and the most inveterate type who spits at all will quiet down.
          Make a short report about the hospital. Take it off wisely. Like, "Come, look, you're our cheerful."
          PS As for dopamine - for techies this is called complexation. Two
          systems on different physical principles work on one task, complementing each other. For example, inertial and radio navigation systems. The first does not give the second "move off the coils." wink
          1. avva2012
            11 May 2020 15: 39 New
            +2
            dauria
            And you have something like advice. People again become people when they see death, illness ... A trip to an oncology dispensary or a psychiatric hospital - and the most inveterate type who spits at all will quiet down.
            Make a short report about the hospital. Take it off wisely. Like, "Come, look, you're our cheerful."

            Aleksey, the patients cannot be shown, and even if it was officially allowed, it is still impossible.
            Here is the truth removed our Vesti-Irkutsk

            Someday, psychiatrists, digging from above, and biologists, digging from below, will draw a schematic diagram, write the "source" of all the programs of all the "chips".

            I hope this will happen when humanity grows significantly morally, otherwise they will grow up like this, where is the nuclear bomb and the evil war viruses ....
            1. dauria
              dauria 11 May 2020 16: 43 New
              +3
              Here is the truth removed our Vesti-Irkutsk


              He looked ... What can I say? Do not stir up our brother like that. It would be necessary so that they would vomit, "What are you doing, scoundrels?" . After all, doctors are the last thing we have left of the “Russian soul”. Where, in what country will the doctor and nurse work for these pennies? USA? So there is a nurse from 80 thousand a year, a doctor - from 90. While the policeman is 20 thousand a year. Military pilot - 22-24 thousand a year, Deputy regiment commander (in our opinion) - 34 thousand a year. Do you want this? Get it, don’t worry. And we will bow to the legs of the new Startsev Dmitry Ionych ... And for years to pay for the cut out hernia. And Ionich will condescendingly look at us from his "Mercedes". And he will advise you to call the priest, if you do not find money for the doctor.
              Okay, the old stump has gone. I’ve seen on a telly a birdie, a honey student ... She works at the nurse’s grab. So I'm not sitting at home because I'm afraid to die. And in order not to add this persona to this bizarre person.
              1. avva2012
                11 May 2020 17: 01 New
                +1
                I hope you write articles at least? Sin such a syllable to bury))
                You have correctly described everything and their salaries, only the USA is not an indicator, they have very bad medical conditions, which showed the number of deaths from coronavirus. Plus, our patients are on the streets, which, in addition to everything else, "perfectly" carry any infection. Yes there, I wrote it already ...
                Tell me, those who count the money in the Ministry of Health, how many classes have they completed?
                After all, one untreated patient, for example, stabbed someone under the “voices”. He then went on for 10-15 years on full state security: compulsion of an intensive-strict-general regime. And after the exit, if he again does not send someone to the next world, then he will live his life on disability. Plus, those who rot in the earth for 10-15 years could also bring benefits. Alternative: let him stay in hospital for six months or a year (in most cases much less: 3 months), receive adequate treatment, go out for supportive care, and, miracle, can go to work, live his whole life like a normal person, and that one will live too.
                Yes, there are patients who have an unfavorable course of the disease from the very beginning, but such 10-15 percent. And they, it is better, and more economically feasible, to keep in the appropriate, preferably suburban, institutions.
                When I think about modern economists, I remember Lavrov, our minister. There are no other words on their account.
              2. bober1982
                bober1982 11 May 2020 19: 20 New
                0
                Quote: dauria
                And we will bow to the legs of the new Startsev Dmitry Ionych ...

                Quote: dauria
                And Ionich will condescendingly look at us from his "Mercedes"

                But, because Ionych worked like a draft horse, he got rich on this, he had a huge medical practice, he did not shun anything and didn’t.
                The story is completely different - about loafers.
                A noble family, mother writes novels ....... it got dark, it got colder ....., dad hochmach, my daughter plays the piano.
                Everyone in the city is thrilled, Ionych is too, but time passes and the doctor understands what these idlers are.
                And, the jokes are flat, and the novels are stupid and the daughter does not know how to play the piano.
                This, because everything at the level of the school curriculum, is strange.
            2. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 12 May 2020 11: 25 New
              +1
              Quote: avva2012
              I hope it will be when humanity grows significantly morally

              Doctor! Karl Marx also believed that in the future, with an increase in labor productivity, the working day will be reduced and people will begin to engage in creativity ... As a result, we see that with an increase in the productivity of mechanized labor and a decrease in manual labor, a person will evolve backward, degrade. The real science today is only where Kernel bombs and war viruses, in fact artificial intelligence, are also against morality and humanity. Especially depressing is the Cult of Consumption, which forms a peculiar view of the world, and undoubtedly leading to frustration, sooner or later.
              1. avva2012
                12 May 2020 11: 34 New
                +5
                Karl Marx spoke of a communist society, not a society in general. About capitalism, he wrote that his future is crises and wars. And this is in times, so to speak, when most thinkers saw the future in pink. The heyday of scientific and technological revolution, flights to the moon, etc., etc. Who turned out to be right? WWII, the crisis of the 29th year, WWII and most likely the Third, if not for a nuclear bomb and war viruses. And with the latter in the USSR, it was even better than in the USA. It was not for nothing that the partners began, precisely, with the demands for the destruction of biological and chemical weapons in the post-USSR.
                So by and large Karl Marx was right. Communism is the youth of the world! laughing hi
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 15 May 2020 11: 07 New
                  +2
                  Good morning, Alexander! I want to inform you that, seeing my interest in your article, they immediately sent me articles about crazy hospitals. I thought, or maybe it’s also useful to others, what can you tell everyone as a specialist? So far I have read about the dedicated work during the Second World War by employees of the Tomsk Psychiatric Hospital. Where at that time there were 1000 doctors for more than 8 patients and all the holidays became workers.
                  I also learned about the killing of everyone in Gatchina in a psychiatric hospital during the German occupation.
                  1. avva2012
                    15 May 2020 15: 31 New
                    +3
                    So far I have read about the dedicated work during the Second World War by employees of the Tomsk Psychiatric Hospital. Where at that time there were 1000 doctors for more than 8 patients and all the holidays became workers.

                    Good afternoon, Dmitry! During the war, most Soviet people fought or worked for the Victory !.
                    I also learned about the killing of everyone in Gatchina in a psychiatric hospital during the German occupation.

                    The Nazis destroyed in our country all the mentally ill to which they could reach.
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 15 May 2020 16: 47 New
                      +2
                      The Nazis and all medical personnel destroyed there then.
                      It’s just that in ordinary life we, unfortunately, rarely think of both those to whom this ordinary life is inaccessible, and those who help them survive.
                      1. avva2012
                        15 May 2020 17: 37 New
                        +3
                        Nothing has changed Dmitry. Now the same, only by other methods ....
                        Just hair on end, what the system does with people, more recently, ordinary.
                        Menagerie, this is still poorly said. Ugh, no words.
    3. Doccor18
      Doccor18 11 May 2020 10: 55 New
      +7
      Quote: Oleg Skvortsov
      When a lot of people lived in the world, then naturally I saw a lot and came across mentally ill people. It is impossible to cure them at all, but humanism is precisely what needs to be cured, even for small minutes of enlightenment. I had occasion to visit the regional mental hospital somehow — they work there mainly in departments not for the sharp and violent — women aged and from surrounding villages, towns, and villages. Beggarly salary. some benefits, daily schedule. City go only to senior positions. In general, thanks to our doctors for the fact that many continue to fulfill their medical and human duty to the sick. Fight for your rights.

      How many people, so many species
      course of the disease. The same
      antipsychotic acts on
      patient in different ways. However
      those patients who receive
      therapy for life, regularly,
      for which relatives
      properly looked after, those patients live to see
      old age and often
      lead a completely ordinary way
      lives, have a family, work.
      But for those who do not receive
      therapy, the disease progresses rapidly. Such patients
      quickly degrade and die
      for 10-20 years.
      And I want to add that it is only outpatient unrealistic to conduct all patients with a psychiatrist. The need for stationary
      treatment occurs in almost every patient.
      1. Oleg Skvortsov
        Oleg Skvortsov 11 May 2020 11: 02 New
        +7
        That's right. Relatives can only support the patient at some period of enlightenment, but such a person should receive help in a hospital every year. Without this in any way - consequences can be too serious - I saw everything with my own eyes
        1. Doccor18
          Doccor18 11 May 2020 11: 10 New
          +3
          In my region, "optimization" is also in full swing.
          They covered several inpatient departments, on the basis of which rehabilitation centers were made. The thing is important and necessary, but not at the expense of beds.
          It’s like putting peter on everything
          BMP, remove the guns from them.
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 11 May 2020 06: 46 New
    15
    Amazing A rather narrowly specialized article, but it is easy to read and understand. Also pleased with the absence political stamps and cliches. The author did not pour his narrative into the topic and not into the topic of fascism / Stalinism / vultures ...
    Thank you.
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 11 May 2020 10: 09 New
      +6
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Amazing A rather narrowly specialized article, but it is easy to read and understand. ... Thank.

      I am joining. I also liked the article. I understand how important feedback is, so I want to say (to the author) that all this is very interesting to concerned readers at VO. You write about things that are unknown to most here. Explain narrowly specialized topics in plain language. Thank.
  3. Grandfather
    Grandfather 11 May 2020 06: 55 New
    +5
    it’s nice that the person (avva2012) keeps his word, said there would be an article — did. I want to hear your opinion, first-hand, so to speak ... "obsession" is a disease, or is it precisely that an exorcist is needed? the opinion of the doctor is simply interesting. (mostly doctors respond evasively)
    1. avva2012
      11 May 2020 08: 01 New
      +7
      Dear, Grandfather Old)).
      Despite the fact that I consider myself Orthodox, I remain a materialist. Faith is faith and the non-material world is not knowable. What is in the material world, respectively, is knowable sooner or later. There are no miracles. Rather, they are in a different area, a case in point, is miracles of fortitude and heroism of our ancestors during WWII!
      Therefore, if we consider "obsession" as a manifestation of the non-material in our world, then I can say-noIn my opinion this is not possible.
      An obsession hides a mental disorder called Hysteria. It refers to a pathology of character or to psychopathy. Manifestations are extremely diverse, including the patient’s confidence that she (mostly women suffer, although there are exceptions) is possessed by demons. In this case, no symptoms of schizophrenia are detected, i.e., there are no specific disorders of thinking and other lesions associated with this disease.
      By the way, the symptoms of hysteria directly depend on the prevailing worldviews in society. In the Middle Ages, there were many demon-possessed, in the 90s of the 20th century, “demons” were replaced by aliens. hi
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 11 May 2020 08: 24 New
        +2
        About a year and a half ago, an article by V. Ryzhov was published on the site dedicated to the mass psychoses of the Middle Ages (St. Witt’s dance, the Pied Piper of the Hammamel). I would like to know your opinion, Alexander, as a specialist, about the genesis of these phenomena.
        1. avva2012
          11 May 2020 08: 34 New
          10
          Your opinion, Alexander, as a specialist, on the genesis of these phenomena.

          In any case, Anton, this is all material. Mass psychoses and their causes are explained by the authors who studied the psychology of the crowd. This is a very wide topic, but I can say that the general disorder in society, the constant feeling of a threat to life, as well as elementary malnutrition, contributes to the development of such conditions. And most importantly, I almost forgot: Illiteracy and obscurantism characteristic of the majority of the population.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 11 May 2020 08: 38 New
            +2
            I did not doubt the material origin of these phenomena.
            1. avva2012
              11 May 2020 08: 44 New
              +9
              And the fact that we still need total illiteracy / illiteracy of the population. doubted? laughing
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 11 May 2020 08: 48 New
                +3
                The myth of the illiterate Middle Ages is somewhat exaggerated. However, my own version of the appearance of these psychoses has matured.
                1. avva2012
                  11 May 2020 09: 06 New
                  +3
                  Have you read the book: Lucien Levy-Bruhl's "Primeval Thinking"?
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 11 May 2020 09: 08 New
                    +1
                    Unfortunately no. Historical Psychology?
                    1. avva2012
                      11 May 2020 09: 14 New
                      +4
                      The author is an ethnographer and not only. A very fascinating book, it is easy to read and is included in the reading list for psychologists, psychotherapists, psychiatrists. For a person who is simply interested in psychology, it will also be interesting. hi
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 11 May 2020 09: 16 New
                        +1
                        Thank you! hi I’ll read it.
          2. alone
            alone 11 May 2020 11: 30 New
            +8
            Quote: avva2012
            And most importantly, I almost forgot: Illiteracy and obscurantism are characteristic of the majority of the population.

            And note this too: Everything is being done so that illiteracy and obscurantism will fill the whole space .. Schools, kindergartens, hospitals, clinics are closed ... But churches, mosques that are full of all kinds of obscurantism are being built ...
            1. avva2012
              11 May 2020 11: 40 New
              +2
              alone
              And note this too: Everything is being done so that ignorance and obscurantism will flood all space.

              And here is another example of how to "work" with information ":

              The image is not very, but if you want, you can read
          3. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 11 May 2020 18: 49 New
            +3
            Good evening, Alexander! Thanks for your articles. I want to add that the 90s brought an increase in drunkenness, probably some kind of stress related illnesses, for example, cardiac, neuropsychiatric, vascular, increased. Are there any comparative numbers about this? Change of specialty, work, shock therapy has shortened lives for many.
            1. avva2012
              11 May 2020 18: 59 New
              +2
              Good evening Dmitry! In times like the 90s, all pathologies that seem to have slept in a person increase. Including neuropsychic. Our hospitals worked under heavy load. I think that which is coming will be marked by the same. Only the problem with medicines will be added. Already increased.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 11 May 2020 19: 11 New
                +1
                Tell me, Alexander, is it true that in the 90s foreign psychiatric drugs began to come to our country? As well as anti-stroke, and other medicines that were previously either not or were less? It turns out ----
                Quote: avva2012
                ..... At times like the 90s, all pathologies increase, ...... I think that what is coming will be marked by the same. Only the problem with medicines will increase ...
                That is, you assume the lack of drugs in hospitals? Or even in the industry?
                1. avva2012
                  11 May 2020 19: 19 New
                  +2
                  Already in the hospital there is no one or the other medicine. The problem is the supply of components. We are now ending ampoule phenazepam. I don’t know what to do without alcoholic psychosis. Antipsychotics, except haloperidol, can not be used there. But he does not give sedation.
                  Foreign drugs appeared later, at the beginning of the zero. It was a golden time.
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 11 May 2020 19: 27 New
                    +1
                    Quote: avva2012
                    ...... Foreign drugs appeared later, at the beginning of the zero. It was a golden time.
                    At that time, some acquaintances passed the testing of imported techniques. Traumatology, some kind of surgery ....... It helped. And imported insulin is praised. And anesthesia.
                    1. avva2012
                      11 May 2020 19: 30 New
                      +6
                      Yes, the drugs are not bad, but without our pharmaceutical industry, we will bend.
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 11 May 2020 19: 43 New
                        +3
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Yes, the drugs are not bad, but without our pharmaceutical industry, we will bend.

                        The impression is that they did not intend to develop?
    2. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 11 May 2020 08: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: Dead Day
      Do you need an exorcist?

      an exorcist is not needed. All can suffer from schizophrenia. In one way or another. May not suffer but have, then others will suffer wassat laughing
      Every lunatic considers himself normal
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 11 May 2020 08: 26 New
        +2
        Quote: aybolyt678
        All can suffer from schizophrenia.

        Including the psychiatrists themselves, they are at risk.
        In mundane language means - with whom you lead, that and will be typed.
        In religious language it means to constantly be in the atmosphere of a demonic world, which is risky, you have to feel constant pressure from demons.
        1. avva2012
          11 May 2020 08: 57 New
          +3
          Including the psychiatrists themselves, they are at risk.
          In mundane language means - with whom you lead, that and will be typed.
          In religious language it means to constantly be in the atmosphere of a demonic world, which is risky, you have to feel constant pressure from demons.

          Drive Orthodox Psychiatry into a search engine. A very decent amount of links will work. For example: https://www.pravmir.ru/psixiatriya-i-duxovnaya-zhizn/
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 11 May 2020 09: 15 New
            +1
            Avono how! And VikNik wondered where you got such an extensive knowledge of religious issues! good
            1. avva2012
              11 May 2020 09: 20 New
              +5
              Anton, without this knowledge in any way. By the way, other religious denominations pay much attention to this issue. I had a patient who went through a decent number of false healers and charlatans, and as a result a Buddhist lama sent him to a psychiatrist.
              Obscurantism and religiosity, this is far from always equal to each other. The course of psychiatry is mandatory at a seminary, as I heard.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 11 May 2020 09: 24 New
                +1
                I assumed something like that.
                For sim, I leave until the evening, it's time to work. Have a nice day to you and everyone present!
          2. bober1982
            bober1982 11 May 2020 09: 38 New
            -3
            Quote: avva2012
            pravmir.ru

            This is an anti-Orthodox resource.
            1. avva2012
              11 May 2020 09: 42 New
              +3

              This is an anti-Orthodox resource.

              The concept set forth by Dmitry Evgenievich Melekhov comes from the teachings of the Church, from the teachings of the Holy Fathers. Man consists of three parts, of three spheres: the sphere of the spirit, the sphere of the soul and the sphere of the body. All three of these areas are interconnected. Based on this, accordingly, we have spiritual illnesses, mental illnesses, and somatic illnesses (bodily illnesses). The sphere of the spirit is the core of the human person, that part of the person with whom we turn to God. This is the sphere of the highest moral values.
              The sphere of the soul is the spiritual problems with which we live, with which we struggle. This is our mind, this is our intellectual activity, our feelings, emotions, will, various drives.
              St. Gregory Palamas and St. Ava Dorofei said that the sphere of the soul also consists of three parts - from the sphere of the mind, the sphere of irritation and the sphere of volitional.
              D.E. Melekhov wrote the work Psychiatry and the Problems of Spiritual Life, which was published Publishing Department of the Moscow Patriarchate under Lord Pitirim. After that, his work was published in the psychiatric journal “Synapse” and subsequently reprinted many times.
              https://www.pravmir.ru/psixiatriya-i-duxovnaya-zhizn/
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 11 May 2020 09: 50 New
                -1
                Then, how can medications help the patient?
                If the whole treatment is that ........ they will stab with injections, and it will be like a vegetable. You yourself rightly assert:
                Quote: avva2012
                The sphere of the spirit is the core of the human person, that part of the person with whom we turn to God

                Then, it turns out, and it is necessary to treat accordingly, and not tablets.
                1. avva2012
                  11 May 2020 10: 03 New
                  +2
                  Why are you looking so one-sidedly at what you read?
                  They are treated with pills / injections, just those two areas that in the church relate to the mental and physical. Is the brain an organ, or what? Is thinking, will, feeling the product of the brain or not?
                  Vladimir, we have repeatedly encountered on the site on issues of ideology and politics. In my opinion, we have the right to this, as the layman is called: to have an opinion.
                  In matters relating to professional knowledge, such an approach is not acceptable, since you are not only a psychiatrist, but even a priest, and therefore do not have certain knowledge.
                  Therefore, I do not urge you to read purely medical literature on this issue, but I am sure that books on Orthodox psychiatry can be comprehended and appreciated without special education.
                  1. bober1982
                    bober1982 11 May 2020 10: 08 New
                    0
                    I just expressed my opinion.
                    1. avva2012
                      11 May 2020 10: 30 New
                      +2
                      I understood, Vladimir, but the opinion regarding people's health, in my opinion, should be expressed with great caution. And in general, the opinion as such is formed on the basis of knowledge, and not from the field, "I think so or I think so." For some reason, we do not express “our opinion” on the issues of repairing a personal car, if we do not have certain knowledge, but trust a specialist to repair it. Why? The answer is obvious: "we want to live!". Because if I do something there, and on the track, suddenly, the car loses control, then probably my personal life, I will end in a ditch. But about the lives of others, you can not bother, personal opinion, express right and left.
        2. Kronos
          Kronos 11 May 2020 10: 10 New
          0
          Reference obscurantist
        3. Normal ok
          Normal ok 11 May 2020 14: 54 New
          -2
          Quote: bober1982
          Including the psychiatrists themselves, they are at risk.

          There was a familiar psychiatrist. He headed the "closed" department of the regional psychiatric hospital. It was in the mid-90s. At some point, he began to abuse alcohol heavily. But here, of course, professional activity multiplied by the general atmosphere of the 90s.
  4. 210ox
    210ox 11 May 2020 06: 59 New
    +6
    Thanks to the author for the article. There are few articles on the site from professionals in certain areas.
  5. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 11 May 2020 07: 08 New
    -3
    Psychiatry is the most underdeveloped, to date, the field of world medicine, the most poorly studied.
    Soviet psychiatry - I do not know about humanism, but besides little knowledge, it was just as abandoned as Soviet oncology.
    According to the author, he is fighting for a just cause, the article is interesting, but it would be even more interesting to concentrate on the details of the struggle with officials, rather than throw populism about "we are more humane than Amers," etc. With respect hi
  6. aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 11 May 2020 07: 40 New
    +4
    Baranovirus in our state, performs the function of lobotomy, it replaces scientifically proven methods of combating the epidemic, political decisions. Decisions are made exactly as needed by our enemies, namely, it is destroyed the deepest layer of our consciousness that we are united as a people, that we have some kind of community and that the state must somehow protect its citizens. The next step will be a reduction in numbers - it doesn’t matter whether it’s a war, infection or demography, the main thing is that people will be divided, controlled and will not be able to somehow influence the situation.
    Banks rule
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 11 May 2020 08: 38 New
      +4
      Quote: aybolyt678
      Baranovirus

      Very accurate diagnosis! hi
      But what is a "coronavirus" has not yet been determined! I like very "asymptomatic"! - Just like mine!
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 11 May 2020 09: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        But what is a "coronavirus" has not yet been determined!

        how is it not defined? I worked with dog coronavirus ... 30% of dog diarrhea in our country is what he is. Very similar to human. 60% of total antigens.
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 11 May 2020 09: 31 New
          +2
          Quote: aybolyt678
          30% canine

          Now who?
          A "asymptomatic"? Is it like sober vodka, a curved straight line and a northerner?
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 11 May 2020 11: 06 New
            +4
            Dog coronavirus is a very stable system. RNA virus, very simple, not prone to mutations. All carnivores are affected to varying degrees. The vast majority of cases are young.
            Asymptomatic is when the balance between the presence of the virus on the mucous membranes and the titer of antibodies in the blood. Sometimes this term is substituted for the absence of the disease with high titers of antibodies in the blood, i.e. either a person has been ill or, there is such a term - immunizing subinfection, this is when a related virus enters the body and forms cross-immunity.
            1. Uncle lee
              Uncle lee 11 May 2020 11: 15 New
              +1
              If we were sick with animal diseases - humanity would have died out long ago ....
              And then the snake ate the mouse, and the Chinese ate the snake and went to Wuhan coronavirus! But what does pangolin have to do with it? How did he spread the virus?
              And why do people throw away pets? Crap concrete!
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 11 May 2020 18: 13 New
                0
                If we had animal diseases
                So humanity their animals sick and sick.
              2. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 12 May 2020 07: 03 New
                +1
                Quote: Uncle Lee
                If we were sick with animal diseases - humanity would have died out long ago ....

                tuberculosis, leukemia, salmonellosis, rabies ..... anthropozoonoses are called
            2. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 11 May 2020 18: 59 New
              +2
              Dear Aibolit, I once read that pets suffer from human diseases, while their wild brothers are not .... How true is this information?
              1. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 12 May 2020 07: 11 New
                +2
                Quote: Reptiloid
                How true is this information?

                this is true information smile Of course, based on the fact that truth is an opinion based on a known fact. I have a different opinion, based on the fact that wild animals have less contact with humans, they are less likely to get sick, moreover, they live in conditions that are richer in various biological markers that cause the development of passive immunity, so they get sick more easily. Well, we have less information about mortality in wild animals.
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 12 May 2020 12: 16 New
                  +1
                  Thank you, dear Aibolit! But I’m rather not thinking about infectious diseases .... On the contrary, diabetes, epilepsy, arthritis-arthrosis .... although about the best immunity, it probably fits .... The topic is interesting, but not to this article.
                  I apologize to Alexander, but could not help but ask. hi
  7. bober1982
    bober1982 11 May 2020 07: 58 New
    -2
    Any mental illness, this is primarily an obsession, medicine is powerless, no drugs can help, any patient is in a state of demonization.
    There is no obscurantism.
  8. knn54
    knn54 11 May 2020 08: 10 New
    +1
    NO psychologist can replace a psychiatrist.
    It turns out that today, in connection with the destruction (not afraid of the word) in the country of psychiatry, doctors need protection.
    Otherwise, it will be like Nazism-the dictatorship of madness.
    Thanks to Oleg and all HONEST psychiatrists.
  9. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 11 May 2020 08: 11 New
    +1
    the profession of a psychiatrist, as well as another medical specialty - a pathologist, causes any person to have an internal feeling of some discomfort, vague anxiety.
    And I, naive, thought that this specialty is a dentist laughing
    Thanks for the article, Alexander! Nobody told you that psychiatrists make good writers?
    1. for
      for 11 May 2020 18: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      And I, naive, thought that this specialty is a dentist

      IE dialogue with a woman "Better 10 times to a stomatologist than once to a genecologist."
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 11 May 2020 18: 50 New
        +2
        This woman never got an appointment with a male gynecologist. How many did not talk with women on this topic, the review of doctors of the opposite sex is always the same: "These warm, caring hands ..."
  10. parusnik
    parusnik 11 May 2020 08: 12 New
    +3
    Thank you for the article.
  11. depressant
    depressant 11 May 2020 09: 43 New
    +4
    Dear Alexander Valentinovich, doctor!
    I think I understand what you mean when talking about Kandinsky-Clerambo syndrome. It seems to a person that someone is controlling them. The Lord God, the Devil, a kind of fictional dark person who is watching you from around the corner, and maybe a bright person - who knows, or even what! Until the appearance of stigmata, a powerful scientific or political idea that completely dominates you, and even - oh, horror! - the desire for justice in the framework of the commandments. Either the desire to commit murder, or at least make disgusting neighbors. In short, the manager involuntarily chosen by the subconscious compels to commit certain actions - specious or unseemly. But then all of us, squeezed into the framework of the state, are schizophrenics. We are controlled, we are convinced of this. It turns out that this is the primary respectable background of schizophrenia, politically correct called socialization within the boundaries of the conditions set by the state in advance. This background sits firmly in both consciousness and the subconscious. You won’t get away from the state, from the type of socialization that it formed! And if your own "manager" appears, then who or whatever he is, a secondary background is formed as a competitor initially, from the birth imposed on the primary. As a way, it’s not a person at all, but his subconscious, feeling uncomfortable, --- to get away from the obligation, to gain free will. But, having gotten out of the trap of one addiction, a person falls into another and becomes controlled again - now basically a subconscious mind. At the same time, an attempt to get out of one subordination to another leads to the fact that the state and those around it are so dissatisfied! The state as a source of primary schizophrenic delirium does not tolerate a competitor, and those around it do not tolerate a reminder that the schizophrenics themselves ...
    Are you healthy?
    1. avva2012
      11 May 2020 11: 05 New
      +6
      Dear Lyudmila Yakovlevna, I understood the question, I’ll try to answer. And the answer will be very simple. A disease is a pathological process, in this case, occurring in the brain. All!
      I had a chance to study at the institute in the early 90s and then talk about UFOs and other paranormal phenomena was fashionable. One day, at a lecture on psychiatry, one of the students asked the lecturer: "so it turns out, are all contactees with aliens sick people?" To which we all received the answer: "we don’t know much in this world and therefore if you see a person with symptoms of a mental illness, then yes, he is sick, and if not, then everything happens in this life."
      What you write about can be called: "a disease of society." The disease is in quotation marks. By and large, a normal person is free in his choice and he makes this choice consciously on the basis of views and beliefs. We are not amoebas who submit to the phenomena of chemotaxis, "bad, good, pleasant, unpleasant." A healthy person can rise above his desires and commit an act, even contrary to the instinct of self-preservation. The patient, no. The actions of the mentally ill are subordinate to the disease. Therefore, it is not necessary to expand the term schizophrenia turning it into a curse word.
      And as for the state, I can say that a person became a person only being among the like. On a desert island, if an individual, but no personality. The so-called "Mowgli children" returned to society, alas, do not turn into people. The state is just a social entity. That's just why it sometimes seems "schizophrenic", that's another question.
      1. depressant
        depressant 11 May 2020 12: 09 New
        +3
        I get it. Thank you very much! love
      2. Normal ok
        Normal ok 12 May 2020 03: 58 New
        +2
        In any religion, there are two trends: the orthodox, in the sense - in the mainstream, and the charismatic, i.e. extreme. In any! Christianity, in all branches, in Islam, Judaism, Buddhism. So with counseling, any normal minister of the church of the "orthodox" movement immediately determines a person with a pathology, i.e. immediately to the doctor or correction of morality / beliefs / worldview is possible .. Unfortunately, the general degradation of education also affected seminaries. Just keep quiet about intentional speculation.
        1. avva2012
          12 May 2020 08: 39 New
          +2
          So with counseling, any normal minister of the church of the "orthodox" current, immediately determines a person with a pathology
          I agree.
          I can be mistaken, but in Orthodoxy, exorcism is not welcome, since the "struggle between good and evil" occurs in the human heart and all kinds of charms, "voices" refer to diseases of the soul-body, and not to direct influences from Hell.
          Moreover, it is not denied that the future saints, directly, the demons tried to knock off the righteous road.
          Again, I will not give links, but from memory, this phenomenon is explained by the fact that the holy hermit, for example, has reached such a level of self-knowledge of God that he begins to come into contact with the non-material. The ordinary person is deprived of this.
          Therefore, for an Orthodox priest, everything should be simple: if he is an ordinary person in front of him with “voices”, then there is only one recommendation, an appeal to a specialist.
  12. rocket757
    rocket757 11 May 2020 10: 03 New
    +1
    Quote: avva2012
    Read serious scientific literature on this topic and you will no longer have unfounded allegations that "psychiatry is actually a false science."

    If you do not aspire to meet with a psychiatrist, it is not a fact, not a fact that there is no such need for him to meet with you!
    Reminder warning, just!
    Society seeks to protect itself from people with a "sick soul" .... although, this definition is too vague, it would be more accurate to write to remove from itself the faces of "patients with the whole head." By the way, there are military psychiatrists in the army, unfortunately, without them in any way.
    But, the article asked a question / topic!
    . The most important thing is to bring to people information about what is happening with medicine, with psychiatry in our state.

    And this is serious!
    So what's going on then?
    Is it already quite kirdyk or not yet?
    1. avva2012
      11 May 2020 11: 27 New
      +4
      Victor, if we continue to do so, if WE do not stop the process together, then kirdyk.
      The question that arises, “what to do?”, Is difficult. Everyone chooses for himself. For example, we are going to an Italian strike. For example, there are websites of official structures, for example, the Ministry of Health, where can I send relevant requests to which they are obliged to answer: 10 requests, 20, 100, 1000, 10000? There are legislative assemblies in the regions. Also the bodies to which you can and should be sent for clarification. Moreover, even the fifth point does not need to be torn off the chair.
      A lot of copies are breaking about the election, "necessary, not necessary." Question to the deputies who want to be elected: "what about the hospitals?" There is power and we scold it, but at the same time, we are not asking anything from it, is it a paradox? The methods are legal and fully doable. If it’s hard for one to write something, you can ask a question in the group of social networks. It is unlikely that now there are indifferent people to medicine. And then all these hashtags: "we love you," "let's support the doctors," looks like hypocrisy. It is from them. Here is tighter energy, but for the right purpose! hi
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 11 May 2020 11: 41 New
        +3
        Quote: avva2012
        The methods are legal and fully doable.

        In a legal way to achieve that everything would be in the way !!! Hard to believe, of course, but it's better than not trying to do anything at all!
        Unfortunately, our society has been trying to conduct lobotamia for a long time ..... and they have achieved some success in this! We have forgotten how to understand simple truths .... power, of course, is in truth, BUT, truth is strong when we all fight for it together!
        Those. true power when WE TOGETHER TOGETHER !!!
        When such a simple truth comes to everyone, then it will be possible to achieve the truth .... a lot where.
        To begin with, all together begin to ask the AUTHORITIES, OFFICIALS, questions uncomfortable for them. TO START! soldier
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 11 May 2020 18: 30 New
        +3
        looks like hypocrisy.
        Absolute hypocrisy !!! Today, the last couple of weeks, a doctor who has become infected with a coronovirus must prove that he is infected at work, otherwise financial bonuses will fly away.
        1. avva2012
          11 May 2020 18: 34 New
          +3
          A. Dyukov has a book, "What Soviet People Fought For". I think to re-read ...
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 11 May 2020 18: 25 New
      +2
      Kirdyk has already come.
      https://www.opentown.org/news/277829
    3. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 12 May 2020 12: 31 New
      +1
      Hello, Victor! am Sorry that I "get in" ".... I do not know what happened under socialism about psychiatry. But it seems to me that the presence of a declared ideology could help those who are slightly ill? Until the end I can not formulate this idea, but that the person was not presented to himself better?
      I recalled the phrase --- there are no healthy people, there are underexplored ones.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 12 May 2020 13: 00 New
        +1
        Hi Dmitry soldier
        Not everything was good with psychiatry in the USSR. Society, the state tried to fence itself off from people with disabilities, but this did not always work out humanely, justified.
        The country had many other problems, concerns, this also must not be forgotten.
        There have been abuses ... but these are rather special, rare cases, at the level of a statistical error.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 12 May 2020 13: 25 New
          +1
          At other times, there were other, smaller opportunities, that's for sure. Depends on the general development of medicine at that time. However, the system of medical examination, as well as for tuberculosis, sanatoriums, disabilities were formed precisely during the USSR.
          If you recall what happened with the king ---- before the revolution, and in general ..... negative negative there was no medicine, but treated with cold water, doused simply with a straitjacket
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 12 May 2020 13: 43 New
            +1
            With just nuts, work was underway, they were isolated.
            People with deviations, different ... there is only a specialist in the subject, has something to say, but from the outside we see everything subjectively.
            One thing is clear, the state did not leave anything without due attention in this area.
            Was it good or not ah ... Crazies in the streets did not hang around, almost.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 12 May 2020 14: 24 New
              +1
              Quote: rocket757
              With just nuts, work was underway, they were isolated.
              People with deviations, different ... ... the state did not leave anything without due attention in this area. It was good or not ah ... crazy people in the streets did not hang around, almost.

              And there were no syringes on the street or in the front door, and they didn’t walk along the street with beer and tonics, and there were no gambling addictions.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 12 May 2020 14: 51 New
                +1
                Everything was not so massive, it was not evident ... these are not the direct costs of the dermocre of liberalism! The problem is complex!
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 12 May 2020 14: 59 New
                  +1
                  Quote: rocket757
                  Everything was not so massive, it was not evident ... these are not the direct costs of the dermocre of liberalism! The problem is complex!

                  Victor, I immediately wrote that I was talking specifically about my city. We, I think, were more serious and widespread. Of course, not in every front door, but in some ----
                  Or you walk along the street --- under some balconies. ..
                  Now there is no such thing. It is clear that they don’t drink on the street --- prohibitive measures appeared.
                  Is this just the lack of ideology?
        2. avva2012
          12 May 2020 15: 43 New
          +3
          rocket757
          Not everything was good with psychiatry in the USSR. Society, the state tried to fence itself off from people with disabilities, but this did not always work out humanely, justified.

          Victor, everything was good in the USSR with psychiatry. There were absolutely reasonable approaches to these diseases. Those who could be treated were no worse than now, those whom they could not were isolated, primarily protecting them from society, and not vice versa. Rehabilitation is not an example of the present. Now it is declared and that’s it. Then: production workshops, feasible labor for the disabled.
          When collective farms created settlements for the sick. A lot of things the state actually did. Just no one appreciated, as it was not noticeable.
          And then came glasnost. Well, how can you not pour a bucket of slop on such a delicious topic. Here you and dissidents, here you are the horrors of boarding schools, here ...... You can’t list everything. Yes, boarding schools. Now there would be many who wish, but alas.
          There have been abuses ... but these are rather special, rare cases, at the level of a statistical error.
          And where they were not. But the prosecutor's office worked, unlike today. And with a conscience, the majority was better. hi
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 12 May 2020 16: 47 New
            +2
            Trying to be objective, difficult, especially if the topic is not specifically addressed, never.
            I, the topic has already touched in the present time, the sensations are lower than the lower one, and so ...... a close person, the head doctor of a psychiatric clinic, back in Soviet times, a lot of things and different ....
            But, just at the expense of the psychos diagnosed, I have no questions, but there were several cases of people with borderline deviations that I know about, but not everything is so blessed there.
            Someone else’s head is dark, but you can cross the border in either direction.
            This is not about punitive psychiatry, I don’t listen to this nonsense at all, decisions were made by the doctor, the commission, and here there is a topic to speculate .... certainly not for us, ordinary people. This is a topic for experts.
            By the way, I wouldn’t get into the topic at all if you hadn’t raised the question about the state of the MENTAL HEALTH SYSTEM for people who are sick. Himself faced this problem and no optimism as a result. Koryachat system for the sake of do not understand who and why! It will not end in good.
            1. avva2012
              12 May 2020 17: 28 New
              +2
              Koryachat system for the sake of do not understand who and why! It will not end in good.

              Do you think I’m Pavka Korchagin, after 25 years of quiet work waving a saber? This is not only the end of psychiatry, it is the end of all medicine.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 12 May 2020 17: 51 New
                +1
                Weak hope that after a pandemic ?? some will think, change their mind ??? but this is a very weak hope.
                Someone’s interests re-write everything and even more. BABOSHIKI also rule in our country, at the top of THEIR attendants, nothing more!
                1. avva2012
                  13 May 2020 03: 12 New
                  +3
                  Yes, Victor, as Dmitry (Reptiloid) says, Capitalism!
                  Perhaps if a people whom the government, if it’s not afraid but fears, will not remain silent, then a faint hope of ending the destruction of medicine will appear. In addition, if you can cut money at the collapse, then why can not they be cut during construction? Cosmodrome "East" for example.
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 13 May 2020 08: 48 New
                    +2
                    Separately, they will never be afraid of anyone and listen.
                    When they need, they can very much reward with a handout, but that will not change anything.
                    Theoretically, within any system there should not be elements of self-destruction .... but we see such that we no longer believe in it.
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 13 May 2020 11: 12 New
                      +2
                      Good afternoon, Victor! hi it would seem yes you're right
                      . However, in our history, the Republic of Ingushetia, at the end of its like elements were. How did it end?
                      Quote: rocket757
                      ...... Theoretically, within any system there should not be elements of self-destruction .... but we see such that we no longer believe in it.
                      I don’t know how it was in the USSR .... But now yes, these elements are visible ..
                      1. rocket757
                        rocket757 13 May 2020 11: 27 New
                        +2
                        Greetings Dmitry soldier
                        To figure it out, you have to figure it out for a very long time! This is an endless work and few people do it. More often they grab some episodes, pieces of history, events, and turn their theories around them. The result is usually .... from just rotten nonsense, to the same nonsense but in a beautiful package.
                        I am not ready to discuss this topic, I don’t have such competence .... I just state the results. I don’t dare to draw conclusions, I just make assumptions.
                        The USSR, for example, does not have it now, so the SYSTEM did not have effective self-preservation mechanisms and EVERYTHING.
                        You can discuss endlessly, build theories, but if you jump on the tops, you will never write anything worthwhile, trustworthy.
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 13 May 2020 11: 51 New
                        +1
                        Thank you Victor for a kind word wassat But how can I, working irregularly, learn socialism? After all, this is one of the little studied periods of our country? It just seems that everything just happened after the revolution. And our archives are not open. As we spoke before, the archives of other countries begin to open and parts of our history open through them
                  2. avva2012
                    13 May 2020 11: 26 New
                    +3
                    A system can easily collapse if it is copied, and has not gone through the full cycle of evolutionary development. And our system has no roots. From feudalism, a leap into socialism, and then into capitalism. Can it bring to good? No wonder, probably, the Zinovievites and Bukharinites proposed building capitalism, although state-owned, apparently understood that there was no capitalism in the Republic of Ingushetia (they clearly knew better than us). Another thing is that it was clear to Stalin and his team that no one, as now in China under the party’s leadership, will give us time for this construction. Therefore, I had to force, jump over one socio-political system.
                    Perhaps our country has missed time for evolution under Peter 1 or, at worst, under Catherine.
                    Perhaps it was necessary to continue to build what was built before 1991?
                    1. rocket757
                      rocket757 13 May 2020 11: 58 New
                      +2
                      Jumping, it’s already difficult, not stable, but in a complex system everything and everything cannot be foreseen.
                      For this, there are methods such as modernization, error correction, and when this is carried out CORRECTLY, a phased evolution is possible. It is difficult for us to understand when and what happened, which influences were reasonable, necessary, and which led to the destruction of the system!
                      On top, we’ll jump on top .... just have to admit to ourselves that this is a matter for specialists.
                    2. avva2012
                      13 May 2020 12: 02 New
                      +2
                      hi Of course, Victor, but I would prefer that socialism be modernized rather than rolled back to the previous stage of development. This process, where it is called degradation, and in medicine, dementia. laughing
                    3. rocket757
                      rocket757 13 May 2020 12: 13 New
                      +2
                      The counter-revolution passed, and we were passive accomplices in this.
                      This topic is even more complicated .... therefore I can not discuss it.
                      We must now seriously take care of the future of the country, otherwise it may become and cares for nothing.
                    4. avva2012
                      13 May 2020 12: 18 New
                      +2
                      We are very professionally put on the head, plus an artificial shortage of all that is possible. The first successful color revolution.
                    5. rocket757
                      rocket757 13 May 2020 12: 23 New
                      +2
                      It’s possible to find, appoint, those responsible ... but this is so, for history, for the textbook, now we need to think about something else, move forward.
                    6. avva2012
                      13 May 2020 12: 29 New
                      +2
                      It's not the culprits. Causes are sought in order not to repeat mistakes.
                      Here our optimizers took into account the mistakes of their predecessors.
                      No documents on the reduction of the bed capacity are left above the hospital administration. What are they talking about in the ministry? On the improvement of medical care during optimization, and the fact that the main doctors reduced hospitals and threw patients out onto the streets, I’m sorry, request , I do not understand you.
                    7. rocket757
                      rocket757 13 May 2020 12: 46 New
                      +2
                      Studying, analyzing, conclusions and recommendations, the process is not fast. This is if one of the specialists does this specifically, thoroughly.
                      Now it’s more and more at the top, the conclusions are simpler, the perpetrators were appointed ... in short, the “chewing gum” for the lightweight and not-too-big people, just for the EGE specialists, will come down. Moreover, the upper ones ordered just that.
                      We would have to defend our elementary rights to a decent, normal life .... we won’t even take this step!
                      I don’t want to swing my deep actions, I need to save what is needed right now.
                      The Soviet system of medical support must already be rescued before it is finished ... but they do, and we clap our ears, and then it will be oh and oh!
                    8. avva2012
                      13 May 2020 13: 11 New
                      +2
                      The Soviet system of medical support must already be rescued before it is finished ... but they do, and we clap our ears, and then it will be oh and oh!

                      Victor, finished off already. The basis of the Soviet health care system was disease prevention. What kind of prophylaxis, anything, can we talk about when a normal working day is 10-12 hours? When medical examinations, medical examinations pass for show often and because there are no real specialists?
                      Due to the fact that you can’t get to the hospital, it is replaced with a day hospital, where it’s only healthy, since a really sick person is tortured to go there.
                      About education, I already wrote. A student who has neither medical practice nor honey. sister, student who is engaged in "self-education", who will he be when he goes to work? Correctly. A person who received a medical education, not a doctor.
                      I want to howl like a wolf!
                    9. rocket757
                      rocket757 13 May 2020 14: 33 New
                      +3
                      Remains remain and it is sad to admit.
                      Just see how it is now. Upper not small funds for eliminating the epidemic and its consequences were allowed, it would be good!
                      At the expense of the remnants ... our region is such that they did not kill everything completely. Though clumsy, but there is still medicine.
                      Many are trying to translate on a commercial basis, I really want to stop it all!
                      But, this problem is more extensive, goes along with everything else.
                      And again we come to the conclusion that what kind of power, such and everything else.
                      Sami "chosen", if you look!
                    10. avva2012
                      13 May 2020 14: 45 New
                      +2
                      Though clumsy, but there is still medicine.
                      Many are trying to translate on a commercial basis, I really want to stop it all!

                      I have no optimism so far. After 5 years, problems with education will hurt.
                      In our town of Usolye-Sibirsky, 4 out of 5 doctors in the same branch as ours are pensioners. One relatively young doctor, but he already has thoughts: "leave." In the Ust-Ilim branch, both doctors and honey scatter. sisters.
                      I think the optimizers are happy, they will close everything and report.
                      Now, in my opinion, only to defend the night, but to hold out the day. So we are fighting only with this thought in my head: "what if?"
                    11. rocket757
                      rocket757 13 May 2020 16: 12 New
                      +2
                      They are already voicing on the radio, not hiding .... but the cart is slowly rolling down.
                      But the epidemic has shown that such a system will certainly fail, if suddenly and again !!!
                      This is only if someone from the very top dries out, penetrates and begins to upset the optimizers so that the tails will “nip” to their ears! But they hope so ... hopes are empty.
                      The upper and the rich, and so everything is fine, but down there they do not care at all.
                      The system is vicious at its core! The system is necessary .... necessary, in short.
                    12. avva2012
                      13 May 2020 16: 53 New
                      +2
                      So, these same thoughts in my head appear that "suddenly, let it penetrate ....".
                      But in reality: patients with tuberculosis on the street, mentally ill on the street (whom these times encourage), people without work, a lot of migrants, the economy .... somewhere there. Does this remind me of something? Is it not the second episode of the same film that began: "Russia, which we finally lost"?
                    13. rocket757
                      rocket757 13 May 2020 19: 01 New
                      +2
                      Russia which !!! we can lose.
                      Well, not everything is so critical. Russia, as a state, will not get lost, we’ll just stop recognizing it ... it happens, but it will not necessarily be so.
                    14. avva2012
                      13 May 2020 19: 12 New
                      +3
                      Russia, as a state, will not get lost, we’ll just stop recognizing it ...


                      hi Good evening, night, I don’t know. In general, all the best!
  13. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 21: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: rocket757
    The counter-revolution passed, and we were passive accomplices in this.
    This topic is even more complicated .... therefore I can not discuss it.
    We must now seriously take care of the future of the country, otherwise it may become and cares for nothing.

    No, Victor, I do not agree. What does it mean
    ...... the counter revolution has come. ..
    ?? as if winter had come. No, the counter-revolution took a long time, it was prepared, nurtured literally from the first days of the Soviet Government.
  14. rocket757
    rocket757 13 May 2020 21: 52 New
    0
    Prepared from there, not prepared here! The finale is known, there was no time for self-digging, it is necessary to correct what has already been done .... Because how to do it, it was necessary to fix it yesterday.
    When the barn burns, there is no time to look for who set it on fire;
  15. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 12: 04 New
    +1
    ......from feudalism a leap into socialism ....
    in my opinion, this experience should have been right, 1000000000 times or more, right and wonderful, that Lenin understood this and saw what he was talking about in May 1917 (old style in April) at the All-Russian Conference of the RSDLP (.B) A then Kamenev then said that Russia is still too early for a socialist revolution, according to Marxism. ... Most accepted the Leninist attitude.
  16. avva2012
    13 May 2020 12: 09 New
    +2
    But Kamenev then said that Russia is still early socialist revolution, it is necessary for Marxism. ... Most accepted the Leninist attitude.

    Perhaps Lenin understood that RI had already hopelessly lagged behind other developed countries and it was necessary to accomplish something grandiose, and not crawl behind those who had long gone ahead.
    When the country "returned to the natural course of development", as the Chubais said in the 90s, it naturally now turned out to be again in 1913.
  17. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 12: 59 New
    +1
    Quote: avva2012
    But Kamenev then said that Russia is still early socialist revolution, it is necessary for Marxism. ... Most accepted the Leninist attitude.

    Perhaps Lenin understood that RI had already hopelessly lagged behind other developed countries and it was necessary to accomplish something grandiose, and not crawl behind those who had long gone ahead.
    When the country "returned to the natural course of development", as the Chubais said in the 90s, it naturally now turned out to be again in 1913.
    Yes, we’re probably closer to 1913. I thought --- Lenin understands this window of opportunity is not for long,
  18. avva2012
    13 May 2020 13: 19 New
    +2
    By the way, and now this window is ajar.
    Part of the people regained consciousness from anesthesia and began to look around. No wonder they remembered medicine. How long is another matter? And the window opened and people woke up .....
    We have a video with an appeal to doctors "IOPND" scored in VK more than 21 thousand views. This is a record for their resource. https://vk.com/politsturm_irkutsk?z=video-176376300_456239065%2F522b7f0120a7a3db80%2Fpl_wall_-176376300
    But at the same time on YouTube, there are not many views.
  19. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 13: 28 New
    +1
    I’ll look at this computer and others, I returned to them after the article. I’ll think whom to send ....
  20. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 13: 33 New
    +1
    Yes, the window was ajar, it’s not only you talking. ....
    In the 60s-70s, the window was opened to expand the socialist camp. Our leaders, the nomenclature, did not want to use this opportunity, already other plans were
  21. avva2012
    13 May 2020 13: 46 New
    +1
    Our leaders, the nomenclature, did not want to use this opportunity, already other plans were

    What do you have in mind?
  22. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 13: 58 New
    +2
    What do I mean? Youth unrest in the late 60s around the world.
    The coming to power in Portugal of the socialists through elections in the 70s ...... we must remember. ...
    In Latin, South America, movements arose whose Marxism did not match ours. .... as the nomenclature considered ....
    By the way, there are a lot of publications by Ilya Polonsky about various left movements ..... we did not support ours. Ilya also has books, I have not read them, but I approve laughing lol general topics with publications here.
    I'm going to recharge hi
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 11: 15 New
    +1
    We have been building a stadium for almost 20 years, Alexander,
    Quote: avva2012
    Yes, Victor, as Dmitry (Reptiloid) says, Capitalism!
    Perhaps if a people whom the government, if it’s not afraid but fears, will not remain silent, then a faint hope of ending the destruction of medicine will appear. In addition, if you can cut money at the collapse, then why can not they be cut during construction? Cosmodrome "East" for example.
    1. avva2012
      13 May 2020 11: 31 New
      +2
      At least 30, the main thing was built winkand not like now ...
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 13 May 2020 12: 09 New
        +2
        Quote: avva2012
        At least 30, the main thing was built winkand not like now ...

        I’m sorry, Alexander, I had in mind our time. But did you know that, for example, in RI there was not a single stadium. And as the Bolsheviks came to power, did they start building stadiums for everyone in our Leningrad? In the 20s already? When was nothing missing in the country?
      2. avva2012
        13 May 2020 12: 13 New
        +2
        Yes, Dmitry and the Institute of the Brain in 1918, and in two years more than 30 completely new institutions around the country during the Civil War ...
      3. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 13 May 2020 12: 42 New
        +2
        Quote: avva2012
        Yes, Dmitry and the Institute of the Brain in 1918, and in two years more than 30 completely new institutions around the country during the Civil War ...

        And my favorite example is ---- In 1924, the Murzilka magazine began to appear.
        Wonderful children's magazine, which is soon 100 years old! Advocacy of knowledge, propaganda of technology, Socialism, stories about travels, other countries and peoples, their customs, teaching children social activity, love for animals, knowledge about health, hygiene, new tales for Soviet children.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 13 May 2020 12: 15 New
    +2
    Now thirty-three excuses will be found, although in the end, if you look, it turns out the same thing, steal!
  • avva2012
    13 May 2020 12: 22 New
    +2
    Something we moved away from the topic, the moderator will cut our comments laughing flood evil wassat
  • rocket757
    rocket757 13 May 2020 12: 25 New
    +2
    Around the bush, very far from moving away, BUT, in fact, we repeat the same thing.
    It's time, then it's time. soldier
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 13: 11 New
    +2
    Quote: rocket757
    Around the bush, very far from moving away, BUT, in fact, we repeat the same thing.
    It's time, then it's time. soldier

    one author said here ---- information should be condensed!
  • rocket757
    rocket757 13 May 2020 14: 25 New
    +1
    Dmitry, what we are talking about, how we are talking, information can be called conditionally.
    More like that - let's talk about this and that.
    This is normal, this is just communication. It’s inconvenient to live without him. We are people, we should just communicate.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 12: 28 New
    +1
    Quote: avva2012
    Something we moved away from the topic, the moderator will cut our comments laughing flood evil wassat

    Let's hope that this does not happen, since this is not another topic entirely. Like some, they will start about the story, and then they will talk about women. After all, sport, like medicine, and education is the development of man after the onset of Soviet power. This is a whole range of measures, as a result of which the life expectancy of 30 years according to the 1898 census began to increase.
  • avva2012
    13 May 2020 12: 36 New
    +1
    Reptiloid
    After all, sport, like medicine, and education is a human development

    Why develop a person if we fell again in the 1913th? Then nobody developed it and now nobody needs it. How was it? 4 classes of the parish school and that's enough. The mentally ill person and the community will feed. Only now there is no community and never will be. But who cares?
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 13: 19 New
    +1
    As for the community, let me disagree. Then it was different. Charity was different. One commentator described the childhood of relatives. Orphans - children were sent to charitable institutions. Because they could not cultivate land and pay tax. All property was given to a strong owner, and the community paid for the maintenance for the children. So she decided. And the father of these children fought on 1MB .. at this time.
    Yes, there is some parallel, of course
  • avva2012
    13 May 2020 13: 26 New
    +1
    Orphans - children were sent to charitable institutions. Because they could not cultivate land and pay tax.

    Here you go! But what about “the whole world, the whole world!” ?. You describe the time of the WWII, that is, after the Stolypin reforms, when they tried to destroy the community. Maybe this is the result of his "reform", write yourself: "the property was given to a strong owner."
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 13: 46 New
    +1
    A similar situation was described by the late, early departed scientist Pyzhikov. If the parents died, and the son in the war --- they took everything away and when the son returned, they did not want to give him back. Courts were littered with lawsuits. 19 century long before the end. . Yes, they gave to those who 100% process, harvest
    A relative of your namesake then sued for land, as it was written, also brought different documents, maybe 2-1,5 years ago it was
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 17: 39 New
    +1
    ...........mentally ill person. .......
    in fact, we know very little about them. Sometimes we joke over each other, twisting at the temple. And as a matter of fact, it is not known.
    I know that the wonderful children's poet Daniil Harms was mentally ill.
    There lived a man in the world, twisted legs and he walked a century along a twisted path. .... wonderful good poems wrote.
    Like Gogol something ......
    And I remember best of all about the mathematician Georg Kantor ... In general, a lot can be said about him: set theory, transfinite numbers, etc. Convinced Jew. He died at the beginning of the last century in a mental hospital. He gave the letter א (aleph) a mathematical meaning.
  • avva2012
    13 May 2020 17: 50 New
    +1
    Like Gogol something ......

    It is difficult, Dmitry to recreate the manifestations of the disease, to diagnose famous people. Personally, my opinion is that if anyone had anything in terms of frustration, then in a very mild form. Why? A disease is not always just a deviation from the norm, it is always minus functioning.
    I heard such an opinion, they say, genius = mental disorder. Hardly. Shoot your leg and then become the Olympic champion in running. How?
    For some reason, this option is not considered, but there are no problems with the head, any assumptions.
    Yes, geniuses have strangenesses in people, but these are just strangenesses. And if at a late age a person is sick, then for some reason this disease is spread for the entire period before. I repeat, this is my opinion. hi
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 18: 03 New
    +1
    About Gogol something in the literary book, but for a long time ..... like drinking. ...
    Interestingly, there are poems by Nekrasov addressed to his dead wife, he went to mourn her grave after death, there are such lines -----..... laughter, noise, they infuriated my heavy, sick and irritated mind. .... What he had in mind is incomprehensible
  • avva2012
    13 May 2020 18: 12 New
    +1
    .laughter, noise, they infuriated my heavy, sick and irritated mind. .... What he had in mind is incomprehensible

    Probably wild longing and sadness for a beloved woman. Enraged someone else's laugh, someone else's happiness.
    I'll try to lie down, suddenly the ambulance will not bring anyone? All the best to you, Dmitry! hi Thank you.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 20: 06 New
    +1
    And thank you, Alexander! We have 7-8 hours difference. Have a rest for you.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 14 May 2020 05: 53 New
    +2
    .......4 classes of church parish. ...
    ------ ?????? eeeee no. I suppose it will be thanks to quarantine like this: about 7-8 years in distant learning, after which the turkey is no longer suitable for further learning. There is no need to invent anything. Self-isolation ---- pen test as if
  • avva2012
    14 May 2020 07: 18 New
    +2
    Yes, Dmitry, easily. Although this scenario is very unfavorable. Enough of the country.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 14 May 2020 08: 09 New
    +1
    Good morning, Alexander! I recall the biographies of Soviet people printed here.
    The beginning of the last century. From simple families ---- studied, rose. You need to remind yourself, re-read.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 May 2020 12: 31 New
    +2
    Quote: rocket757
    Now thirty-three excuses will be found, although in the end, if you look, it turns out the same thing, steal!

    Just a symbol, perhaps, of post-socialist development.
  • bober1982
    bober1982 11 May 2020 10: 39 New
    +2
    Quote: avva2012
    but the opinion regarding the health of people, in my opinion, should be expressed with great caution

    So, where he spoke cautiously, very delicately and politely.
    1. avva2012
      11 May 2020 11: 56 New
      +2
      Thank you so much for your delicacy, and most importantly for your courtesy.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. avva2012
      11 May 2020 13: 16 New
      +3
      The article is not about closing a separate hospital, but about closing psychiatry as an industry, if you do not understand.
      I’ll try to answer in order, since you personally turn to me, especially since your questions are just a collection of myths and legends:
      Leo_59
      I (c) read that lobotomy became popular (and even fashionable) after PMV.

      No, the years when lobotomy was actively applied are indicated in the article.
      even just neurotic ladies were easily treated in this savage way. Hundred.

      Perhaps this happened. 40-50 thousand victims in the USA and anyone could be among them. The use of partial leukotomy in "neurasthenic young women" with one disorder: anorexia nervosa. It helped save the lives of patients, as they were dying of hunger at that time.
      I did not understand why in psychiatry hypnosis is not used to relieve / prevent symptoms

      Under the absolute prohibition, since this is “external influence” and can aggravate painful experiences in a patient with delusions of exposure (see Kandinsky-Clerambo).
      tested on himself (out of curiosity) the "nano-action" of azaleptin.
      This drug has a phenomenal deafening-inhibitory / sedative effect.
      IMHO. “This is just a dubious symptomatic treatment for the disorder.”
      A prospective progressive change in consciousness does not promise the patient.

      There is medicine, there is a target. For healthy, the effect of the drug is manifested only in sedative action. For the patient: therapeutic. Example: 25 mg Azaleptin can enter into the deep sleep of an ordinary person. Patient: 400-600mg. per day, i.e., 150-200 mg. single dose and from the outside you can’t say that the person wants to sleep. It adequately answers questions, actively moves around the department.
      A hospital is a place (dangerous in many ways) of a person's isolation during exacerbations. There, a person, in principle, is simply forced to "get enough sleep". After that there is a sorting - to a boarding school (life-long) or "to freedom" (

      The main symptoms of the disease are treated there. There is no sorting. Boarding schools are crowded and they do not take patients even with the remnants of psychosis.
      Patients are very losing weight. Was an eyewitness

      Just the opposite. When taking antipsychotics, often, but not always, increased appetite. The problem with women arises because of this. Refuse to take treatment at home. In fact, we solve the issue by diet, excluding / reducing animal fats and confectionery from the diet.
      1. Leo_59
        Leo_59 11 May 2020 13: 58 New
        0
        It seems that I was not accurate (WWI / WWII).
        The rest in my commentary is not Myths, I’ll explain everything to you "through life."
        I won’t even argue further. Although your answers, alas, did not convince me. You have caught my skepticism well, and it is by no means unfounded.
        I could tell a lot more facts and my observations, but this is probably out of place.

        Sorry, last question:
        The magnitude of the impending disaster from the article is not clear to me (the number of patients in boarding houses / hospitals / under supervision), which will be left without medical care
        You also kept silent about what they actually want to do with Russian Psychiatry. Probably reorganize somehow ..?

        Thank you for your attention :)
        1. depressant
          depressant 11 May 2020 19: 57 New
          +1
          300 - 400 mg of sleeping pills ... Go crazy! what
          1. Leo_59
            Leo_59 11 May 2020 22: 00 New
            +1
            :) There was insomnia. I drank ~ 5mg (1/5 of the daily maintenance dose).
            Two! the day went by asleep. Sounds are muffled, braking consciousness, slow movements.
            And "They" say: why do not you take pills? ...: ((
            1. depressant
              depressant 11 May 2020 23: 41 New
              +1
              All my life I have insomnia, I sleep in fits and starts. Especially on the full moon I don’t even go to bed. But it never occurred to me to take sleeping pills. This is violence against the body, over the brain, as you can!
            2. avva2012
              12 May 2020 05: 27 New
              +1
              The minimum dosage of azaleptin tablets is 25 mg. Who cares, you can clarify its diameter. Well, "eye diamond", divide. Half: 12,5 mg., A quarter: 6,25 mg. How to get 5 mg.?
              Further: azaleptin, is a drug located on the subject of quantitative accounting. You can’t take it without a prescription, you understand. And further. This drug only for sleep disorders is not prescribed from the word at all.
              And "They" say: why do not you take pills? ...: ((

              "You"?
              1. Leo_59
                Leo_59 12 May 2020 08: 47 New
                0
                I explain the situation to the good;) and the meticulous doctor :)
                There is to be exact, I had a sleep disorder (due to nerve troubles) - I hardly fell asleep in the morning.
                The tablets were 100 mg (25 ok was not available when received) Forgot! I, being a guest (he is from Moscow), This (now deceased) Pts is a good person, not a stranger to me.
                On the tablet is a divider. Those. to get ~ four parts is not a question. Next, divide the quarter by about 4 (~ 6.5 mg).
                After that, the smallest of the resulting shares was drunk.
                My weight then was about 90 kg. About the same as with Him (= Him).
                1. avva2012
                  12 May 2020 09: 10 New
                  +1
                  Anyone can read this site, including an unhealthy person or relative. People still believe the printed word more than the recommendations of specialists. Moreover, our patients (and their relatives often too) do not consider themselves (relatives) to be sick, and having found extra "evidence" that they don’t need to drink the medicine, they won’t drink it either. Result:?!
                  1. Leo_59
                    Leo_59 12 May 2020 10: 01 New
                    +1
                    'Once such a booze has gone' ...
                    I looked through two previous publications of the Doctor.
                    My extreme question on 'Scale of Disaster' has remained hanging in the air.
                    Then about the Details of disaster known to me.
                    There is no man anymore, you cannot return. And I have a lot of “after” questions.
                    For example.

                    - A person after another stay in the hospital was prescribed azaleptin / sedalit + trihexyphenidyl (from Parkinson).
                    It is clearly and clearly (+ a memo) what for what and when and other nuances were not explained to him. A relative (brother) for such clarifications in the dispensary has never (for Pts for many years) been invited, - "neither by sleep nor spirit" about the rules of treatment.
                    Sisters: participation by tel. on the level - do you drink pills?
                    Those. This condition is not quite healthy, but quite capable, a person living alone must evaluate himself! (?). Accordingly, you can make a mistake with self-esteem ...

                    - The specialists from the dispensary did not enter the house. Never. Only in the last year, relatives learned that they could be called to their homes. They thought it was impossible or paid.
                    And He was there simply panicky afraid to appear. Because ...

                    - big problems have gone
                    1. after transferring it to the young !? to a specialist who was given an age group of 60. And before that he had been led by a pleasant, attentive experienced doctor for a long time.
                    2. What happened to him was a random romance with Pts of a woman he liked (who lived in a neighboring house, and as it turned out, worked in a special boarding school!). She, apparently having figured out his person (or with some intent?), Left him "alone"! Because of what he was very upset, Podzapil greatly (there was no breakdown yet!), And his brother, in a drunk insole, stupidly surrendered to the hospital = After they lost confidence.

                    3. He left the hospital a month later.
                    Angry at everyone (who passed it?), Skeleton-skeleton .. And the finale followed ...
                    After 3 months his condition worsened. Characteristic signs - overexcitation + speech difficulty intensified.
                    On the advice of relatives, the brothers went to the clinic for a consultation - consult a doctor.
                    This "doctor" says to him "at the door": why don’t you take the pills?
                    Man: did you drink it yourself?
                    Doctor: wait in the hallway.
                    They go out. Are waiting. Two nurse go to them.
                    Man is to run. They are behind him. Felled (and He is 190cm tall), dragged along the floor. The brother was shocked and dumbfounded. Pack.
                    Make out in a hospital.
                    !!! That night (no one knew about his hospitalization!) Someone gets into His (with his brother) apartment on the 1st floor (by squeezing the double-glazed window), sleeps, rummages through everything, especially paper), eats everything from the storage room, picks up his laptop. ..
                    The thief was later found. It turned out a migrant worker from Moldova. And what is characteristic - this "doctor" is also Moldovan ...
                    Note - documents for an apartment A man, as he sensed, handed it over to his brother long before these events ...

                    : ((Here are some details from the "life of vacationers" ...
                    1. avva2012
                      12 May 2020 11: 11 New
                      0
                      'Once such a booze has gone' ...

                      It won’t work. Any questions on the article? If not, then there are regulatory organizations in your area, perhaps they will answer your questions.
                      1. Leo_59
                        Leo_59 12 May 2020 11: 43 New
                        +1
                        Questions? But what about :) Two times already I asked my “extreme” question ..

                        And, Doctor ...
                        You and the comments found a "strange" phrase:
                        "... Boarding schools are crowded and they don’t take patients even with the remnants of psychosis."

                        How shoud I understand this? What patients Just a lot and all untreated in a hospital should be placed in a boarding school ??
                        It sounds scary ...
                        And the epigraph to the article is weird ...
                        There is something to think about ..
                        Is not it so?
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 12 May 2020 12: 44 New
            +2
            Hello, Lyudmila! I do not think that this is just sleeping pills. This is something more serious, judging by the Internet.
            One of the sleeping pills is warm milk and a warm blanket (for some), an open window and cold air (for others) request ) or a glass smile
            1. depressant
              depressant 12 May 2020 13: 38 New
              +1
              Dima, here is a "shot glass" - this is not for me)))
              Since childhood, I can not stand the smell of alcohol. Especially drunk. I do not understand how you can enjoy the absorption of alcohol. They say that if you often "consume", you get used to it, you have to increase the dose, a person gets drunk, turning into an alcoholic. No, a glass is not a sleeping pill. Fresh air, milk, chocolate - and this is not about me. And my rhythm of life quite suits me. And I'm not a walker for doctors! Over the past 15 years, I got to the hospital only twice - on call 112. I quickly washed off from there. I am a very bad, uncomfortable patient. Doctors are not happy with such. At the last (recent) hit, I happened to see "professional" patients.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 12 May 2020 14: 18 New
                +1
                Well, sorry hi Lyudmila! request I wanted to help you, it didn’t work out. How many people, so many tips. lol This is me other people's stories retelling the shaft. However, I heard one more --- slow breathing exercises.
                I myself chopped off instantly, it happens at a late dinner lol
                Health to you love
                1. depressant
                  depressant 12 May 2020 14: 32 New
                  +1
                  Dima!!!!... wassat
                  Here you are behaving now like some doctors. Having looked predatory at the patient and smiling rather, if the patient is not poor, they begin to treat him to infinity. If there was a man, there would be a disease! Then another, followed by a third, etc. Moreover, with age, illnesses come from nowhere. And now there is an eternal patient. And I am depressed to be the object of other people's manipulations. But I'm not talking about you, do not think)))
                  I just do not accept advice, even the faithful. Such is the form of independence. crying
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 12 May 2020 14: 46 New
                    +1
                    I’m not offended that you, Lyudmila.! This once again says that you only need to be guided by the experienced. laughing
                    I wanted the best --- it turned out as always lol I like it
                    Quote: depressant
                    Dima!!!!... wassat Here you are behaving now like some doctors. Having looked predatory at the patient and smiling rather .......

                    Most of all I liked the word predatory !!!!!!!!
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 12 May 2020 17: 12 New
                      +1
                      Well, like this!.. wassat When buying cheap aspirin or orthophene in a pharmacy that regularly expires in my refrigerator (after I take one or two tablets, I forget about them), every time I have to be horrified at the amounts that are bought by the “curers” that stand in front of me quite healthy looking people. And that’s all, according to the doctor’s prescription. From the remarks they exchange with the pharmacist, it is clear that they take for themselves. And I, looking at them, gloomily think: "I was quite myself, but you will become sick." And, what amazes me, in American films, heroes swallow drugs in handfuls, for the doctor prescribed.
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 12 May 2020 18: 50 New
                        +1
                        But this is the achievement of medicine, Lyudmila hi ---- inside terrible, but decent outside. laughing I have not delved into this yet. They were told --- they should be swallowed. Who swallows who does not.
                  2. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 12 May 2020 19: 47 New
                    +1
                    .looking predatory. .....
                    several times approached the mirror and predatory I looked at one corner, then at another. My teeth were grinning. The little dog left the room. I won’t scare her anymore; I will be predatory when she’s not around. I will save this expression am for special occasions.
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 12 May 2020 20: 40 New
                      +1
                      Dima ... I read your letter. I am very sorry. This is what I myself am afraid of.
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 12 May 2020 21: 16 New
                        +1
                        My grandmother took about 8 years to prevent stroke. Then the optimatos canceled everything. Three months have not passed since the withdrawal of drugs. ... although this is not psychiatry
                        We were all shocked, because when I took the medicine --- I led an active image, read, knitted, cooked ..... Even when the drugs were canceled ----- the changes were invisible. ...Nonetheless....
  • for
    for 11 May 2020 18: 02 New
    +4
    In certain circumstances, a pathologist is better than a psychiatrist.
  • Shadow
    Shadow 11 May 2020 21: 45 New
    0
    For the cannibalist society, those who refuse fashionable, progressive, and officially approved anthropophagy are extremely abnormal and potentially dangerous.
  • Antokha
    Antokha 11 May 2020 23: 34 New
    +2
    An article written with pain. The author is a big plus. But. Many mental disorders have spiritual roots. Schizophrenia may be what is called obsession. Although the spiritual world is not visible, its manifestations are quite tangible, and its laws are understandable. Before arguing, think about the wind (the example is not mine, see consciousness - the wind). Where he is and who he does not know, manifestations are obvious even to animals. This does not contradict heredity, because there is also spiritual heredity. Sins from parents go to the children. children see it "in themselves." What to do with them, they decide. Nothing - they will go further along the chain, with the addition of their personal sins. If they fight with them, they will save the children from them. At the end of the chain this becomes unbearable, and the poor person breaks down mentally, physically, ceases to bear offspring. So sadly the whole branch of life ends. Each of us is called to fight this, and each of us is in ourselves. This is both labor and joy, because it all depends on you. Without spirituality, one cannot understand mental illnesses or cure them. You can mask it. Well, they stopped killing the brain, and now they are treating with chemicals. And there, for example, sits a real non-physical being who does not care about the material. You ask how chemistry works? It makes it difficult for the creature to access and control the physical body, and here comes the "improvement". The treatment is to return the person to himself. It is also necessary to close the door through which the demon originally entered, and for this it is necessary to understand why it was open. These are all spiritual questions. Author, if you are a materialist, you are not an Orthodox Christian. Here or or. This is not an accusation or a label, it is simply by definition. Miracles happen all the time, they must be able to see.
    1. avva2012
      12 May 2020 07: 12 New
      +2
      Antokha
      Author, if you are a materialist, you are not an Orthodox Christian. Here or or. This is not an accusation or a label, it is simply by definition. Miracles happen all the time, they must be able to see.

      Wonders? I see them. For example, an ordinary cell of the human body. Incredibly complicated and reasonably arranged. You know, science has explained a lot, made out a lot into components. For example, I am a supporter of evolutionary development, but the explanation for the primary formation of a living cell is not impressive. Yes, and the theory of the "big bang", somehow not very)).
      Therefore, I admit the existence of a higher mind, God, as a creative component. But at the same time, all these miracles, fairy tales, all this for children. And if the rules of hygiene are explained to children in the Old Testament, then why do you think that they will talk to us otherwise as adults?
      There are many wonderful and wonderful things in the material world, you just need to be able to see them.
      Without spirituality, one cannot understand mental illnesses or cure them.

      So no one heals the Spirit. It is impossible to return conscience with pills, injections of fidelity, ECT-kindness.
      You, as I understand it, confuse the various components of consciousness that were clearly distinguished even at the very beginning of Christianity, the same Gregory the Theologian and Basil the Great.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 12 May 2020 13: 09 New
        0
        I recall, Alexander, the beginning of the century today. In my city. In my opinion then there were more drinkers, more dependent on different things. Now these problems give other, smaller numbers. In any case, they said so at the Museum of Medicine last year. Apparently, why did the optimizers immediately react? But after all, many years have gone to these reductions, and quick optimization can return everything, is it?
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 12 May 2020 14: 51 New
          0
          I thought that they would not just return the figures of the beginning of the century, but the increase in the numbers of illegal actions ???
        2. avva2012
          12 May 2020 15: 25 New
          +1
          Addiction Dmitry is now not heroin in the main, that’s why you can’t see the jerks. The abusers were “cut” several times, twice technical alcohol and, most recently, “Hawthorn”. But the problem did not go away, only it was stretched, a little, in time. People drive their moonshine. Of course, the product is "pure", and therefore alcoholism will develop classically: 10 years the first stage, after 5 years the second, and then the "squirrel". On the muck that before the liver was destroyed before, the brain suffered more and degradation increased faster.
          Well, they began to drink more. Well, the "product" is always at hand .... am
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 12 May 2020 15: 36 New
            0
            Nobody boasted about moonshine, all in secret. I have not heard of anyone. Conspiracy recourse
            1. avva2012
              12 May 2020 15: 49 New
              +2
              Well, how are you still boasting laughing Who insists on what, how much they distill, smell, color ...
              You say, listen, you already have "stars" on your cheeks! Neither and all beam! Yk
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 12 May 2020 16: 33 New
                +1
                In the summer at the cottage ---- this does not count. Yes, this is not moonshine, but homemade wine drinks
  • TANKISTONE
    TANKISTONE 16 May 2020 21: 12 New
    +3
    Good article! When you expand the topic, please make a binding (as at the end of this article).

    For example, readers of Military Review have already become acquainted with the Nazi version of “treatment”. This is the so-called T-4 program. The program got its name due to the fact that the administration of the Reich Workers' Community for the Treatment and Care of Patients (good name, nothing sinister) was located at 4 Tiergartenstrasse.
    Literal translation: "Street Kindergarten for Animals". (Exactly so: in German, all nouns are capitalized).

    The reason is that the profession of a psychiatrist, as well as another medical specialty - a pathologist, causes any person to have an internal feeling of some discomfort, vague anxiety.

    In the city of my birth there is / was a short street ("Pushkin" in the past), only 400-500 meters. If you count from the stop / shop, at the end the only house of the Khrushchev project, in which the family of the former work colleague lives. Keeping the path to acquaintances, I passed medical institutions: on the left - a psychiatric hospital, on the right - the MSC of the mining and metallurgical plant, with separate structures of the infectious department and a morgue. The feeling of discomfort was always present when he walked along this street.

    Snail N9 (Snail) May 11, 2020 08:54
    Um, "mentally" sick people ... There are certainly inadequate people, I don’t argue ..... Someone said, I don’t remember exactly who, but from famous people, as if not Freud himself, that psychiatry is actually false science, if you follow the postulates of this science, then "mentally unhealthy" can be recognized absolutely, any person ...

    Sigmund is not the kind of person you can refer to. His book "Psychology of the Unconscious" is similar to the author’s fantasy, on which the authors of porn perversions profit.

    But where do you get the time that is intended for the drug to work? Where do you get the individual work of the doctor with the patient? How to regulate the time for contact, the emergence of trust between the doctor and the patient

    Under capitalism, there will be no time for this! Hospital insurance needs profit, but not the health of citizens! I judge by the Soviet system of health care and the western ... And there were fewer real patients, and the schedules in medical institutions were hanging next to the "battle sheets" of the departments!

    avva2012 (Alexander) May 12, 2020 15:25 p.m.
    Addiction Dmitry is now not heroin in the main, that’s why you can’t see the jerks. The abusers were “cut” several times, twice technical alcohol and, most recently, “Hawthorn”. But the problem did not go away, only it was stretched, a little, in time. People drive their moonshine. Of course, the product is "pure", and therefore alcoholism will develop classically: 10 years the first stage, after 5 years the second, and then the "squirrel". On the muck that before the liver was destroyed before, the brain suffered more and degradation increased faster.
    Well, they began to drink more. Well, the "product" is always at hand ....

    Vladimir Levy described dependencies readily ...
    1. avva2012
      17 May 2020 14: 45 New
      +3
      Good article!

      Thank you very much! This article is intended to make people understand what the term “mental illness” implies. So I could explain a little.
      Those who carry out optimization, i.e., reducing hospitals, are trying to lie to the population, saying that all this is done for people, they say, this is humanity, etc., etc. They even accuse us of lack of conscience. Do you understand? They are us. We have no conscience in actively opposing this.
      They were also offended by one article that appeared on the Internet newspaper of our region, although we do not have nothing to do with her. Here it is: http://m.babr24.net/?IDE=198514
      Interestingly, why are you offended?
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 17 May 2020 18: 40 New
        +2
        Good afternoon, Alexander! And I remembered the long-known, but forgotten.
        Some mentally unhealthy people were talented artists. In my opinion, Maurice Utrillo. ... among the Russians too ... probably the most tragic fate of Vincent van Gogh. ....
        1. avva2012
          18 May 2020 03: 10 New
          +2
          We, it seems, believed Vrubel, who suffered from a very rare form of schizophrenia, which is manifested by attacks of the neuroid. In the interictal period, there are no deviations in the psyche. Judging by his work, the same disease can be assumed in Daniil Andreev, who wrote The Rose of the World.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 18 May 2020 09: 36 New
            +2
            I read about it about Vrubel in 2 editions. One of the greatest Russian artists, opening up the wonderful world of Russian nature, Russian people, fairy-tale creatures.
            I read that he had a love of lilac and its smell. And he is poisonous
            1. avva2012
              18 May 2020 10: 00 New
              +2
              Well, according to fabulous creatures, if you can call demons, he was supposed to have a oneiroid. Also, of course, according to the artist’s behavior, which changed dramatically between periods.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 18 May 2020 10: 34 New
                +1
                Quote: avva2012
                Well, according to fabulous creatures, if you can call demons, he was supposed to have a oneiroid. Also, of course, according to the artist’s behavior, which changed dramatically between periods.

                More Daughters of the Underwater King.
                Vincent van Gogh captured a combination of yellow and blue, including the image of interacting spiral galaxies. The prototype was the famous and beautiful galaxy M51 (Whirlpool) in the constellation Hounds Dogs. And the impetus for writing the picture was the discovery by Edwin Hubble of the expansion of the Universe, which put an end to the long-standing debate about the nature of the so-called "" spiral and elliptical nebulae. "" This discovery shocked the World in its time, like the discoveries of Columbus and Darwin.
          2. Severok
            Severok 22 May 2020 08: 46 New
            0
            judging by the work, the same disease can be assumed in Daniil Andreev, who wrote "The Rose of the World."

            I read this pearl, it is difficult to perceive. How would you say what it looks like to the confused speech of a drunkard who is losing the thread of conversation? - remotely yes. To the speech of a person with a fantasy and a scanty vocabulary? - Perhaps, from this comes the use of terms that are extremely difficult for perception. A strange work from the category relating to religious literature.
            1. avva2012
              22 May 2020 13: 18 New
              +1
              Just, it is possible to study the textbook violations of thinking by the author of this opus.
  • Severok
    Severok 22 May 2020 08: 41 New
    +1
    Who can decide for a person whether to live or not? How can a person be deprived of the right to live a normal life, even if it requires the use of psychiatric methods? How and who can have the right to deprive loved ones of the opportunity of normal communication with a loved one ???
    Those who try on the guise of a celestial person are likely to be a potential patient of a psychiatrist. These are 90% of people from Forbes magazine.
    1. avva2012
      22 May 2020 13: 37 New
      +1
      These are 90% of people from Forbes magazine.

      I have a feeling that, being at such a height, they cease to feel like people.
      1. Severok
        Severok 24 May 2020 10: 41 New
        +1
        Tell me more precisely - they ceased to be people.
        1. avva2012
          25 May 2020 03: 12 New
          +1
          Or we are no longer considered them.