Creel Committee: Heavy Duty Weapon

210

Painting the engine monument for Victory Day is also an important PR event. People see that he is not forgotten, not abandoned, that there are those to whom the memory of the war is not indifferent. The only bad thing is that not all masked workers ...

But only during the war did it become obvious what enormous results could be achieved through the proper use of propaganda. Here again, unfortunately, all the investigations will have to be carried out on the experience of the enemy side, since this kind of activity on our part was at least modest ... For what we did not do, the enemy did with amazing skill and really brilliant calculation. I myself learned a lot from this hostile military propaganda.
Adolf Gitler


Public Opinion Management Technologies. As noted here in past material, for some reason, in our country, there is some very strange reverence for Dr. Goebbels, who is considered almost a genius of propaganda, but who knows absolutely nothing about those people to whom this false doctor owed all his “successes” and who did not his boss Adolf Hitler himself abstained from studying.



Therefore, today we are somewhat moving away from the everyday life of modern public relations and will turn to the topic, of course, interesting to all readers of "VO" - the theme of war and wartime propaganda. And we will reveal the sources of “genius” of the same Goebbels, who didn’t come up with anything himself, but simply read the necessary books and adapt them to what was written for himself.


But this is also our today's Russia. Poster in one of the northern cities of the Russian Federation. He is wearing a Finnish soldier Klemet Jouni Jeremias Halonen and a reindeer in Lapland, May 4, 1944. But our poster, on May 9

In a book published in 1920 entitled How We Advertised America, its author George Creel, who led the Committee on Public Information during World War I, described in detail what principles of PR and advertising he and his people used to so that the Americans would want to fight against Germany. And since he succeeded, Krill’s success showed people like Hitler and Goebbels what can be achieved by using information to influence the masses.


That's what it was like at that time, George Creel

On April 14, 1917, President Woodrow Wilson ordered the creation of a Public Information Committee. It included the Secretary of State, the Minister of War and the Minister of the Navy fleetand his director was a well-known liberal journalist George Creel. "House of Truth" - so he called this organization. And he received excellent funding. And it started! What he did for that time became an unprecedented phenomenon, and in fact it was the first experience of the total control of public opinion.

Creel Committee: Heavy Duty Weapon

“If even less literature were rejected and advised on literature that takes into account Russian realities, preferably in an accessible language, then you wouldn’t have a price at all,” wrote the reader of VO, Mr. Hagen. Well, if so, we continue recommendations on the relevant literature. For example, we can recommend this one, a book repeatedly published in the Russian Federation on PR. By the way, a link to it in a conversation, especially if you remember the authors and learn to pronounce their name without hesitation, there is already a good PR in itself. Well, if you also read it ...

First of all, Krill decided that propaganda should go through all conceivable channels of information. Let there be newspapers, there will be cinema, radio and telegraph, but we also use posters and signs, rumors and oral presentations. Any moment of person-to-person communication is an opportunity to “sell the war”. All you need is to figure out how to put yourself in the service this moment. However, he didn’t invent anything new again ... In the novel “Pharaoh” by the Polish writer Boleslav Prus, written back in 1895, Prince Hiram tells the merchant Dagon how to influence Prince Ramses so that he starts the war with Assyria: “You must make sure that no one knows that you want war, but that every heir’s cook wants a war, every hairdresser wants a war, that all attendants, porters, scribes, officers, charioteers — that they all want war with Assyria and that the heir hears about from morning till night, and even when he sleeps. ”


By the way, although the Polish film "Pharaoh" refers to the genre in historical to films, it is quite possible to recommend it to PR specialists as a tool for managing public opinion. Priest Herhor there is especially versed in it ...

In order to provide himself with such “scribes,” Krill lobbied for a presidential decree that advertising workers should be credited with logistics, so now it’s easier to mobilize the Committee. Newspapers were supposed to provide him with their pages for free. The most famous journalists, advertisers, and artists were involved in the work.


Of course, it would be more interesting to read George Creel himself and we have the opportunity to buy this book of his in Russia today, but it is in English ...

For 750 well-known cartoonists of the country, the Weekly Newsletter for Cartoonists began to be released. It printed ideas and headlines on the topic of the day, artists had to visualize them, and newspapers print. Information was distributed by the Committee to another 600 foreign newspapers in 19 languages, news transmitted through radio transmitters on ships of the American Navy.


The history of PR in the relevant specialties is not taught today, unless optional. But there is an interesting textbook on it by R. Yu. Pochekaeva

V.I. Lenin has not yet uttered his catch phrase that cinema is the most important art for us, and Krill has already contacted Hollywood and has actually put it under the control of the KOI. Pathos films were shot: “Crusaders of Pershing”, “Response of America”, “Under the Four Flags”, etc. A special person was engaged in the promotion of films; he also wrote reviews on them. Under a pseudonym, of course.

Remember Soviet-era grocery kits where scarce buckwheat was sold with a load of sprats in a tomato? So patriotic American films in the world market were sold in exactly the same way. Want a top movie? Fine! But without 2-3 “our” tapes, we won’t sell the movie you need. And so that the impression percentage is appropriate. And then put another Pershing on the shelf ... There was another very tough condition: do you want our films? Then do not dare to show German! Full, so to speak, freedom of choice, right? So KOI not only provided Hollywood with orders, but also provided him with a profitable sale of its products.


Those who buy books at the expense of office rather than personal funds (or, for example, as a gift to the boss!) Can recommend this book by the author, written in collaboration with Daria Egorova, owner of her own center for teaching the Japanese language. She has been to Japan more than once, so everything is absolutely accurate with regard to the texture. It is interesting that the Japanese in the field of advertising and PR borrowed everything from the Americans, including terms!

Another very effective example of CFI was the so-called “four-minute”. Krill believed (and it is) that people trust information transmitted verbally more than what is written. That is why the rumors are so tenacious. And so, a special “oratory department” was created in the KOI, for which 75 people worked, among whom were a variety of people - volunteers. They were selected according to the principle "does a person know how to speak and does he look convincing." The task of the Four Minutes, as Krill said, was to “manage ongoing conversations.” Each of these 000 had to deliver a four-minute speech to his audience several times a week, while preaching the justice of the US military aspirations, and, of course, condemning anti-war and any socialist sentiments in the most unconditional way.


Another book as part of a team of authors. Julia Manannikova taught sociology and in the book was responsible for the sociological part, Svetlana Shpakovskaya - media planning, but the author got “everything else”

To help the propagandists were issued memos: “Why are we fighting”, “Exposure of German propaganda”, “The lies of the enemy and our truth”, “In support of moral principles and morale”, “Threat of democracy”. The topic was divided into 5-7 parts - individual speeches + interesting additional information was given. Those ideas that should have been paid special attention were emphasized + and typical examples of such speeches were also applied. Speakers were instructed to show enthusiasm, and the quality of the speeches was assessed by the chairman of the local KOI cell. Those whose speeches were boring and their eyes did not burn were ruthlessly expelled. Everything is just as it was with us, the lecturers of the OK and RK CPSU, in my time in this service. You speak, and the party organizer sits and writes down what you say, how you say, whether you mumble, whether you adequately answer the workers' questions, if there is insincerity, and if you were caught on “something like that”, two, then more the audience could not see how their ears.

Moreover, the task of the “four-minute” was also that they provoked conversations with their speeches, and that they themselves controlled them and performed the functions of political investigation, that is, to identify and inform people with anti-war sentiments. They did the following with the latter: at first they invited them for a conversation, at which they explained the erroneousness of their behavior. As a rule, in 80% of cases this worked. There remained 20% of the “stubborn”, who were usually treated differently: the committee recommended employers to dismiss them under various pretexts.


Collective textbook of the Department of Philosophy and Social Communications of Penza State University. Moreover, it is written just the way it is necessary to write such books today - simply, understandably, with concrete examples. There are many recommendations in it, which feature film to watch, which fiction book to read, what exercises to develop one or another skill in a word - in a word, everything is there ...

The work of adults was also duplicated by youth groups: “junior speakers” from primary and secondary schools. Under the guidance of loyal teachers and principals, schools held contests in oratory on the topics outlined in the National School Service Bulletin. They were discussed at the classroom in such a way that children would then be very likely to discuss them with their parents at home.

Accordingly, the “Brunswick color speakers” worked in the “colored” areas to encompass all, absolutely all social and national backgrounds in the United States.

Public relations specialists already realized the role of emotions and moved from the concept of "reporting facts" to the concept of "marking in the heart, not in the head." True, George Creel himself has always denied that the Committee’s activities are “emotional”, but in fact it was just that.

Accordingly, the US state machine supported the Committee not only financially, but, very importantly, legally. June 15, 1917 in the United States adopted the "Law on Combating Spying", and in 1918 also the "Law on Subversion". The first encouraged the censorship of anti-war ideas, and the second any criticism of the Wilson administration was declared unlawful.


What is a PR design? And this is a complex work of smart people ... Because stupid people first come up with a name for a store, restaurant, create a new product, and only then they hire advertisers and PR people to “PR” and advertise them. But we must work together. To do what is easy to promote by means of PR and advertising. And how to do this, this book shows specific examples. That is, it has a minimum of tedious theories and a lot of practical recommendations

Well, only 75 Creel volunteers, who supported the war with their four-minute speeches, read over 000 million speeches, covering an audience of 7,5 million people living in 314 cities and towns. Many of Kril’s publications were published in national languages.

For example, the pamphlet Warm Words for Foreigners was published in Czech, Polish, German, Italian, Hungarian and Russian. There were even such special publications as German Socialists and War.

And, of course, it was KOI who prepared the texts of the leaflets, which were then dumped on the heads of German soldiers. Moreover, knowing about their poor food supply, especially at the end of the war, the first thing the flyers said was that if they surrendered to the Allies, they would be treated well and that their diet would include “beef, white bread, potatoes, beans, raisins, real grain coffee, milk, butter, tobacco, etc. ” And all because the rations of ordinary German soldiers were so bad that they often said that kommisbrot (German: “soldier’s bread”) was baked from dust collected on the floors of army bakeries.

A lot of useful information was obtained in prisoner of war camps, where special agents who knew the German language were sent. They argued with prisoners about the war and thus found out which arguments against them were most effective. As the saying goes, a fool sows words, a clever one harvests them. The Germans did the same. In conversations with them, the PR people learned which newspapers they consider the most truthful, which Reichstag deputy they trust more than others, and why. Then all this was compared with information received through diplomatic and intelligence channels; then a draft leaflet was drawn up, it was approved, and the leaflet was printed.


The last among the three textbooks of the Department of Philosophy and Social Communications of PSU. Here, in a simple and understandable language it is written how to write in online publications and how online journalism differs from traditional journalism, well, and advertising, of course. Everything is written on practical experience, including that obtained here, on "IN"!

Here is the name of one of them: "Daytime rations of American soldiers: German prisoners of war receive the same rations." But this is for especially hungry and hungry for normal food: "Beef - 567 grams, potatoes and other fresh vegetables - 567 grams", as well as: "Coffee beans - 31,75 grams." It was noticed that eight out of ten prisoners captured by the Americans found American leaflets in their pockets promising the Germans good food. Moreover, in just three months of the war in 1918, Americans dropped about three million such leaflets over German positions.


Many people care about such a thing as “black PR”. Something will be told about him here. But you can recommend this book. Its main advantage is its accessibility. The circulation was large ...

But when the war ended, the Creel committee was dissolved ... at 24 o’clock! The need for it has disappeared - why spend the extra money?

Well, now let's summarize. All that many of the not too knowledgeable people traditionally attribute to Dr. Goebbels, long before him and with tremendous effectiveness was used against Germany already in the First World War. The experience of the information war was not hidden by anyone and was not hidden primarily because its effectiveness was directly related to the level of economic power of the country. To repeat what was done by the Creel committee in the USA in this area was only for the USA, and all other countries could create only something similar and nothing more. Contemporaries testified that in the USA such a truly comprehensive and effective propaganda machine had never been launched before. And I must say bluntly that Goebbels was just an apprentice next to such luminaries of public opinion management as Krill, Lippman, Burneys and Ivy Lee ... To become something big, he had neither the corresponding education, nor imagination, nor finance, although the Gestapo and SD worked for him, in turn. However, we are still going to deal with a concrete analysis of his mistakes.

To be continued ...
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  1. +5
    12 May 2020 05: 26
    More briefly is MARK TWEN, who wrote a story about an elected local politician.
    And about how to lie it was worked out in England many years ago, when they had just created a newspaper. Some methods can be seen in the television movie - * Glass of water *. There, Lord Bolenbrock, for the sake of achieving his goals, * threw * a lot * into public opinion.
    1. 0
      12 May 2020 06: 08
      Propaganda is a monologue that seeks not an answer, but an echo.

      Wisten Hugh Oden

      Not even three days have passed since May 9, and in the morning, at VO, I already read the article about propaganda с quoting Hitler in an epigraph... If you approach from the point of view of propaganda, then I see it as a "dance on the bones" of all those killed in the Second World War.
      A very unfortunate choice of the author of the epigraph to the topic of the article.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +7
          12 May 2020 07: 19
          Check with an ophthalmologist. Obviously something with eyesight.

          Essentially nothing to answer?
          1. +5
            12 May 2020 07: 34
            This is the being. No need to look for devils in the censer!
            1. +1
              14 May 2020 11: 29
              Quote: kalibr
              No need to look for devils in the censer!

              You famously started to PR yourself at VO - I hope advertising of copyrighted books will increase the level of their sales. Are they in stock in bundles?
              1. +1
                14 May 2020 13: 47
                Quote: ccsr
                Are they in stock in bundles?

                Why do you immediately think about the bad? My books are not stale. I want people to have time to read before they run out. The book "Paradoxical tanks ..." was reprinted three times, "Let's die near Moscow ..." twice ... "PR-design and PR-promotion" was first published in 2011 and became a rarity right there. So I want people to have time. They write to me that even in Kazakhstan they are being sold and bought, and wholesalers will not carry so far what is not for sale.
                You just don’t know the specifics, and so you’re foolishly trying to hook me. And the specificity is as follows: now a teacher cannot work at a school without an approved curriculum posted on the Web. And it should be updated every year. References MUST consist of books not older than 5 years. That is, since the release of my books, teachers of PR and advertising are simply OBLIGED to insert them as NEW within 5 years and recommend them to students. Otherwise, they will not get the program approved. And in the list of literature, everything is checked by hyperlinks. And what is the easiest thing to check for reviewers? Of course, literature: clicked, looked ... And students must know the literature, what they have in the curriculum! The circle is closed in this way. And you give me "packs in warehouses". Some of them, in my opinion, have already been sold out ... We are talking about a reprint, "augmented, improved edition". Don't write for the future if you don't know!
                1. +1
                  14 May 2020 19: 23
                  Quote: kalibr
                  The circle closed in this way.

                  Here I am about the fact that you have a circle in science, and historical materialism taught us that development should go in a spiral. But since your activity requires the publication of books that hardly even one student will read to the end, then the flag is in your hands. My son is a student of "baumanki" and he has textbooks of the sixties - eighties and zero years. And something their teaching staff is not soared by the fact that they use in the first year what was published in the days of the USSR.
                  1. +1
                    14 May 2020 20: 59
                    Quote: ccsr
                    My son is a student of "Baumanka" and he has textbooks from the sixties - eighties and zero years. And something their teaching staff is not soared by the fact that they use in the first year what was published in the days of the USSR.

                    This is how we used old textbooks. For this there is a section: Additional literature. But just my textbooks students finish reading to the end. You just can't tear yourself away from them. It's true. They are written exactly as young people read it today! There is a movie, there is a "artist", there are interesting practical tasks. And then ... in higher mathematics, physics ... what is taught in the first year for technicians, little has changed since that time, but we have changes very quickly. Society is changing rapidly ... But the laws of nature are not!
          2. +13
            12 May 2020 07: 47
            Quote: Mitroha
            Less than three days after May 9, and in the morning, in VO, I already read propaganda article cited by Hitler in an epigraph.

            You are frankly pulling an owl about Hitler’s propaganda. An article about PR technology. It is not worth any mention of Hitler to be considered his advertisement.
            1. +1
              12 May 2020 08: 07
              I do not pull anyone, although individuals should be. I express my opinion, which is as follows:
              Quoting ≠ mention.
              Citation of works direct reference to familiarization with them. The VO site is a fairly well-known and authoritative resource. A viewer with a burning eye: an authoritative website, citing, acquaintance with the works, even if 1 out of 1000 is imbued with his ideas, this is already a victory of fascism propaganda. Exaggerated of course, figuratively. But propaganda works like that
            2. +1
              14 May 2020 21: 19
              Quote: Stas157
              You are frankly pulling an owl about Hitler’s propaganda. An article about PR technology.

              Under Stalin, there were also a huge number of propagandists - why not use their work to assess the successes of Soviet political science? At least the ideas of socialism were admired by many people in the world, but the ideas of National Socialism led to the collapse of several states. According to the "Hamburg score", the Soviet political prop turned out to be much higher than the Hitler's one - so it should be used when evaluating PR technologies.
      2. +3
        12 May 2020 07: 41
        in our country for some reason there is some very strange reverence in front of Dr. Goebbels, who is considered almost a genius of propaganda

        And this is not at all accidental. But our leaders and officials have long overtaken their teacher. By PR technologies and self-promotion they are already unsurpassed masters.
    2. avg
      +3
      12 May 2020 13: 18
      Some methods can be seen in the television movie - * Glass of water *. There, Lord Bohlenbrock, for the sake of achieving his goals, has * thrown * a lot of things into public opinion.

      Or you can just watch our films made in recent years. Here's an offhand, just for example: "Shrafbat"; "Bastards"; "Black Sheep"; Stalingrad "Bodnarchuk;" Zelemkha opens his eyes. "Yes, there are dozens of them. And then we wonder why many young people have such a cynical, one-sided view of our history.
      1. +1
        12 May 2020 15: 42
        Quote: avg
        And then we wonder where many young people get such a cynical, one-sided view of our history.

        Alexander! But earlier in our country there was not a cynical look, right? But where is this state? Bye-bye, it’s covered ... So maybe with a cynical “it won’t be covered”?
      2. 0
        12 May 2020 23: 42
        Quote: avg
        Some methods can be seen in the television movie - * Glass of water *. There, Lord Bohlenbrock, for the sake of achieving his goals, has * thrown * a lot of things into public opinion.

        Or you can just watch our films made in recent years. Here's an offhand, just for example: "Shrafbat"; "Bastards"; "Black Sheep"; Stalingrad "Bodnarchuk;" Zelemkha opens his eyes. "Yes, there are dozens of them. And then we wonder why many young people have such a cynical, one-sided view of our history.

        Alexander! Do you only watch movies like this? Well, maybe not the latest, but at the level of those that you presented. So: "We are from the future" "August 44" "June 41" and the same "last armored train" or the series "sniper"? This is on emotions (or on a jump)! And of course I am not happy with many of them, especially with the "masterpieces" of our masters ....
    3. 0
      15 May 2020 18: 05
      Quote: Vasily50
      And about how to lie it was worked out in England many years ago, when they had just created a newspaper.
      Science does not stand still
  2. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. -1
        12 May 2020 08: 29
        kalibr (Vyacheslav)
        I did not give you personal permission to publish my personal data, in this case this photo.
        Then remove all your photos from the Internet, they are in the public domain and it is NEVER written that they are forbidden to use. Do you understand the freedom of speech? So do not blame me.
        You run into big trouble.
        And you?
        Remove it immediately and apologize!
        Apologize to you, DO NOT WAIT !!!
        Article 152.1 of the Civil Code of the Russian Federation.
        And why the hell do you post your photos on the Internet? Here from the Internet and demand that all your photos be deleted. What claims to me?
        We read carefully, and not as usual you read:
        3. If the image of a citizen, obtained or used in violation of paragraph 1 of this article, is distributed on the Internet, the citizen has the right to demand the removal of this image, as well as the suppression or prohibition of its further distribution.
        (item 3 is introduced by the Federal law from 02.07.2013 N 142-ФЗ)
        1. +5
          12 May 2020 08: 46
          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          Then remove all your photos from the Internet, they are in the public domain and it is NEVER written that they are forbidden to use.

          So, Alexander! Know that a lot of things have been posted on the Internet. But uploading other people's photos, even if they are there, IT IS NECESSARY TO ASK FOR PERMISSIONS of the person who is shown on them. This is the law, and not I came up with it. It’s not your fault that you live according to concepts, you have to end with this. I can post my photos as much as I want. You are not! Or yes, but asking permission. Available explained?
          1. 0
            12 May 2020 10: 22
            Quote: kalibr
            a lot of things have been posted on the Internet. But uploading other people's photos, even if they are there, IT IS NECESSARY TO ASK FOR PERMISSIONS of the person who is shown on them. This is the law, and not I came up with it. It’s not your fault that you live according to concepts, you have to end with this. I can post my photos as much as I want. You are not!


            recourse
            I’m not sure that this is so: if a person has uploaded his data to PUBLIC space, it means that he agrees a priori and even wants to be known to as many people as possible.

            If someone else has replicated them (without comment, naturally), then he contributes to this goal.

            The use of this data in any other context, of course, must be agreed, IMHO
            1. -3
              12 May 2020 11: 18
              Quote: Olgovich
              The use of this data in any other context, of course, must be agreed, IMHO

              That's it!
        2. 0
          12 May 2020 08: 48
          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          You run into big trouble.
          And you?

          But I do not violate the laws of the Russian Federation.
        3. +2
          12 May 2020 16: 05
          Alexander
          YOU should demand a lot of money from this populist (Shpakovsky) for advertising his personality. Refuses to sue, or you say, for free I wanted to get an advertising banner with my own * patret *. The fact that he was then embarrassed with the help of the VO administrator was his own business.
          Was there an advertisement? It was.
          Let him pay.
        4. BAI
          +3
          12 May 2020 16: 46
          This is a very interesting question.
          1. The author has repeatedly stated on the site that he is an elite. Then:
          !! NEW EXPLANATIONS OF THE Supreme Court (RFPVS of the Russian Federation of June 23.06.2015, 25 No. XNUMX):
          Without the consent of a citizen, the publication and use of his image is permissible when there is a public interest, in particular if such a citizen is a public figure (holds a state or municipal post, plays a significant role in public life in the field of politics, economics, art, sports or any other field), and the publication and use of the image is in connection with political or public debate or interest in the person is socially significant.

          Those. either the author forgets that he is an elite, or - agrees to the use of the image.
          2. We must look at the rules of the site on which the photo is posted. Because:
          However, the circumstances of a citizen posting his image on the Internet may indicate that such person expresses consent to further use of this image, for example, if it is provided for by the terms of use of the site, on which the citizen posted such an image.

          3. You can give a link to the image. No questions at all. And give here and now. What is bazaar about?
          1. -2
            12 May 2020 17: 43
            Quote: BAI
            The author has repeatedly stated on the site that he is an elite.

            Do not confuse the concept. We are talking about recognized representatives of the political elite of society, art and sports. Recognized as such by the public. I have never stated that I belong to something like that. On the contrary, I have always emphasized that there are many people who are smarter and more talented, knowledgeable and skillful than me. But ... there are many people ... the worst in all these respects. And isn't that so? And the right to evaluate oneself is not connected with public legal capacity. Do you understand this? In any case, it is customary for living people who are in real accessibility (like me, for example) to ask: do they mind quoting their text or posting their photograph. I always ask, and it shows respect for these people. The absence of it in my attitude makes me remember a very good principle: "Everything to friends - to enemies the law!"
            1. ANB
              0
              14 May 2020 23: 25
              . We are talking about recognized representatives of the political elite of society, art, and sport. Recognized by the public as such. I never stated that I belong to something like that.

              Too late. Statements of a recognized person do not mean anything.
              Do you write and publish books?
              Do your articles come out, do people read them? I've read all your articles.
              That's it. Recognized as significant. :)
              PS. I will not get into the topic of your dispute about photographs.
              1. +1
                15 May 2020 07: 03
                Well, since you think so ... I don’t think so, but you have every right to have an opinion.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +1
          12 May 2020 08: 47
          This is a lesson for you, Alexander! The law is strong, but it's law! I advise everyone to treat the provisions of the legislation of the Russian Federation carefully. Ignorance of the laws does not exempt from liability!
        2. +5
          12 May 2020 08: 54
          Why was my comment deleted? Am I indecently speaking? Or did the question of the shyness of the author hurt? So the author himself laid out to himself not only photos but also his very often changing * views on life *.
          And if the author is taken on a salary, will he become a staunch supporter of the paid idea? Or how?
          Surely the author will refuse part-time jobs?
          1. +1
            12 May 2020 09: 11
            Quote: Vasily50
            So the author himself laid out to himself not only photos

            You can do it yourself!
  3. +1
    12 May 2020 05: 46
    Thanks to the author for the article ... very interesting ... the information war against Russia is in full swing according to all the described manuals ... he personally was convinced of this.
    What remains for us ... I think the weapons that the enemy uses against us must be turned against him in a more sophisticated form ... I have no doubt that we can defeat the Anglo-Saxon media using their weaknesses.
    1. +7
      12 May 2020 06: 42
      Nothing helps enemy propaganda as much as its own laymen, embezzlers and people who despise their people, adore foreignism, sneak into power and are concerned only with their own well-being, stuffing their pockets and PR among Western "friends". Actually, when such people are in power, no "propaganda" is needed to undermine the foundations of the state and for the growth of anti-state sentiments among the people.
    2. 0
      15 May 2020 18: 29
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      weapons that the enemy uses against us must be turned against him in a more sophisticated form
      Mass propaganda lies mainly to its citizens, so that the authorities have the support of their lies to an external audience and their further actions. Do you think that we lack sophisticated lies for complete happiness? We put on pans, but the joy of the new and more reliable (than the non-brothers) super-pans from those who don’t are likely to increase.
  4. +5
    12 May 2020 06: 12
    in our country for some reason there is some very strange reverence for Dr. Goebbels
    For people like the author of the article, it’s possible, but many in our country call Goebbels bullies.
    Remember Soviet-era grocery kits where scarce buckwheat was sold with a load of sprats in a tomato? So patriotic American films in the world market were sold in exactly the same way. Want a top movie? Fine!
    What world market for "cinema" in 1917, what idiot in the world would take films with a load? What nonsense ?! There was a purely intra-American action. Well, the food sets had to be woven, purely according to Goebbels. And this is not counting the fact that the author confused food kits with goods with "load".
    1. +2
      12 May 2020 07: 19
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      What world market for "cinema" in 1917, what idiot in the world would take films with a load? What nonsense ?! There was a purely intra-American action.

      You just don’t know. Do not write if you do not know! Already in the 17th, American films were actively screened in Europe.
      1. +4
        12 May 2020 08: 17
        Quote: kalibr
        Do not write if you do not know!

        Quote: kalibr
        Already in the 17th American films were actively shown in Europe
        What, and sold strictly with the load? Nonsense on the blue eye, then do not write, we are not your students!
        1. +1
          12 May 2020 08: 26
          Vladimir! I do not know whether they were strictly sold or not strictly. On the blue eye or on the red ... And not to my students nor ... other ... local .... I do not write nonsense. I don’t have a habit; remember, insert something from yourself into a serious text. The fact that they were sold so abroad was taken from the relevant literature. These books are listed here, including those that describe the work of the Creel committee.
          1. +1
            12 May 2020 08: 48
            Quote: kalibr
            And not to my students nor ... other ... local .... I do not write nonsense
            As you write:
            So patriotic American films in the world market were sold in exactly the same way. Want a top movie? Fine! But without 2-3 “our” tapes, we won’t sell the movie you need. And so that the impression percentage is appropriate. And then put another Pershing on the shelf ...
            To argue that the Americans were SOLDING abroad some "top movie" strictly with a load in the form of internal propaganda, and even with control over the percentage of display - this is stupid stupidity, excuse me.
            1. +2
              12 May 2020 09: 08
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              To argue that the Americans were SOLDING abroad some "top movie" strictly with a load in the form of internal propaganda, and even with control over the percentage of display - this is stupid stupidity, excuse me.

              It may very well be. But you can't erase a word from a song. I remind you once again that I am not inventing anything, but I convey the content of the original publications as accurately as possible. All that comes from me is: "Hello, children!", "Goodbye, children!"
              1. +2
                12 May 2020 09: 20
                Quote: kalibr
                and as accurately as possible convey the contents of the original editions
                What in the original is this comparison of food sets with buckwheat and agitation for domestic use in the load from the cinema for sale abroad was? Let me not believe it. But there is no faith in this, then how to believe outright stupidity.
                Remember Soviet-era grocery kits where scarce buckwheat was sold with a load of sprats in a tomato? So patriotic American films on the world market were sold in the same way
                1. 0
                  12 May 2020 10: 37
                  Quote: Vladimir_2U
                  Let me disbelieve.

                  Do not believe it! All publications are in front of you. By the way, Catlip Scott has this about it ... But I really inserted the sets about them, for clarity. And in my opinion, it turned out well.
    2. 0
      15 May 2020 19: 14
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      what idiot in the world would take movies with a load?
      This is practiced in the world film distribution. Now - I don’t know, but in the 90s ours took the "load" and did not have a choice to drop the price of a box-office film - I read the article.
      1. 0
        15 May 2020 19: 17
        Quote: sniperino
        Ours in the 90s took the "load"
        Cinema was already killed in the 90s, but not in 1917.
  5. +4
    12 May 2020 06: 33
    Handsome ... so under such an article to squeeze your ads .. oh no, co-authored .. books .... a collective author, and yourself to write to Japan yourself? No ... we are co-authors .. like that, an ardent propagandist communist became a merchant))) Penza now I do not associate with drisya Will, but exclusively with Shpakovsky ... and every day the main article squeezes when it has time ???
    1. +3
      12 May 2020 06: 44
      Quote: Andrey VOV
      every day the main article squeezes when it has time ???

      I suspect that he has a family contract. Grandfather, grandmother, daughter, granddaughter, bug ... laughing
      1. -4
        12 May 2020 07: 20
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        I suspect that he has a family contract. Grandfather, grandmother, daughter, granddaughter, bug ...

        About the fact that your intellect lies in the parameters, we have long ago found out.
        1. +2
          12 May 2020 08: 23
          Quote: kalibr
          About the fact that your intellect lies in the parameters, we have long ago found out.

          Often trynd about my intellect. You look, and everyone will remember. By the way, is this technique also in PR textbooks?
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  6. -8
    12 May 2020 07: 28
    To repeat what was done by the Creel committee in the USA in this area was only for the USA, and all other countries could create only something similar and nothing more.


    And we have?

    1934, millions of people have just died of hunger in the country, and the "Funny guys" are singing with might and main "Easy on the heart ..." and "tyuh-tyuh-tyuh, our iron is on fire ...". calling on the whole country to rejoice ...
    1. +3
      12 May 2020 07: 52
      “Someone remembered Christmas XNUMX, five years ago, the then offensive in the Ardennes, which the Germans were unanimously proud of as ancient: the vanquished chased the winners. And they remembered that on that Christmas Eve Germany listened to Goebbels.
      Rubin, with one hand fiddling with the cuts of his stiff black beard, confirmed. He remembers this speech. She succeeded. Goebbels spoke with such mental difficulty, as if dragging all the hardships under which Germany fell. He probably already had a hunch about his end.
      Seeking, as it were, an imposer for Rubin, Simmel said that there were hundreds of firework speakers in Reich; I wonder why the Bolsheviks are set to coordinate texts in advance and read speeches on paper.
      The reproach came the more offensive than the more just. It was not to explain to the enemy and the murderer that we had eloquence, but what, but the party committees etched him."
      A.I.Solzhenitsyn "In the first circle"

      PS Highlighted by me Plantagenet.
      1. +3
        12 May 2020 08: 22
        Quote: Plantagenet
        The reproach came the more offensive than the more just. It wasn’t to explain to the enemy and the killer that we had eloquence, but what, but party committees etched him

        Soljn will not lie, of course. Lying to the nonsense, he is a master, he was, they even gave the Nobel. A little earlier than Obama. )))
        1. +5
          12 May 2020 08: 45
          That is, eloquence is not etched. But what about the massive repression of speakers? Yes, even take the same comrade. Trotsky. After all, the speaker was magnificent. As lit before the revolutionary troops. And the rest were not bad. Yes, somewhere all gone ...
          1. -2
            12 May 2020 10: 47
            Quote: Plantagenet
            But what about the massive repression of speakers?
            Haha, this is such a "category of enemies of the people" or something - an orator to repress them en masse? The fact that at the rallies people lit and ignite it that not the speakers? And Trotsky as repressed for his oratorical ability to braid, this is a credit from the credits. They also forgot Hitler and Goebbels, although they are self-repressed, but strictly for oratory, yes.
            1. 0
              12 May 2020 12: 47
              "The fact that at the rallies people lit and ignite it that not the speakers?"

              It’s not enough to light, it is necessary that people follow the speaker.
              1. -2
                12 May 2020 12: 49
                They followed the political leaders.
                1. -3
                  12 May 2020 12: 50
                  When is the back of the detachment machine guns?
                  1. -1
                    12 May 2020 12: 58
                    Quote: Plantagenet
                    When is the back of the detachment machine guns?
                    Ooh, clearly understandable. Military affairs and the history of the Second World War were studied in the "Penal Battals" and Solzhu. For the record, machine guns are normal when attacking, ALWAYS slightly behind the infantry.
                    1. -1
                      12 May 2020 13: 06
                      b) form 3 - 5 armored detachments (up to 200 people in each) within the army, put them in the immediate rear of unstable divisions and bind them in the event of panic and indiscriminate detachment of the division into alarmists and cowards and help honest fighters divisions to fulfill their duty to the Motherland;

                      People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR
                      I. STALIN
                      Order of the NPO of the USSR of 28.07.1942 No. 227
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                      2. 0
                        12 May 2020 13: 16
                        "You are not smart enough,"

                        If you are so smart, why are you talking to fools with us?
                        I gave you the order number for the detachments. Read it all. There it is written why they were introduced (mass desertion). people didn’t believe the political instructors and massively retreated the whole 41st year. And then also the 42nd to the Volga River.
                      3. -3
                        12 May 2020 13: 30
                        Quote: Plantagenet
                        There it is written why they were introduced (mass desertion). people didn’t believe political leaders and massively retreated for the whole 41st year
                        In the army there are from 7 to 15 divisions (up to 100 people), are there 000-600 divisions on them? And how, how can machine guns of detachments of troops help with an attack? You didn’t get it.
                        Quote: Plantagenet
                        Read it all
                        Where in the order about mass desertion?
                      4. +1
                        12 May 2020 13: 34
                        And since 1943, it means that political leaders were sharply believed - the stars didn’t agree that year laughing
                      5. -3
                        12 May 2020 14: 22
                        Quote: Operator
                        And since 1943, it means that political leaders were sharply believed

                        Yes, even in 41-42 near Moscow without political detachments, political officers alone managed. )))
                      6. +2
                        12 May 2020 14: 36
                        Quote: Plantagenet
                        I gave you the order number for the detachments. Read it all. There it is written why they were introduced (mass desertion) people didn’t believe the political instructors and massively retreated the whole 41st year. And then also the 42nd to the Volga River.

                        Did you mean these lines?
                        There is a lack of order and discipline in companies, battalions, regiments, divisions, in tank units, in air squadrons. This is now our main drawback. We must establish the strictest order and iron discipline in our army if we want to save the situation and defend our Homeland.
                        It is impossible to endure further commanders, commissioners, political workers, whose units and formations voluntarily leave combat positions. You can’t tolerate further when commanders, commissioners, political workers allow several alarmists to determine the position on the battlefield, to bring other fighters into retreat and open the front to the enemy.

                        Read the order now for you. If you find at least one mention of mass desertion or mistrust of "political instructors", then we are reading different orders. Or do you have a version of this order specifically for people like you.
                        As it does not sound corny, but in 1941 and in 1942. and in subsequent fighters and commanders of the Red Army showed mass heroism and self-sacrifice, about which there are numerous memories written by both our and Germans.
                        And by the way, if you decide to judge the role of the commissar, political instructor, political leader, as well as the role of a military counterintelligence officer on publications of the 90s or on some modern films, where they are mostly dumb, fat, always drunk and sexually preoccupied sadists, then I sincerely regret you. For this means that you have been badly hit on the head and you have to live with such content in your head.
                      7. 0
                        13 May 2020 11: 59
                        Well, if we really face the truth about the "detachments", THEN THEY ARE NOT IN THE RKKA, AND NOT DURING THE GREAT DOMESTIC!
                        And for the first time in modern history, they were FORMED AND APPLIED by General of the cavalry A.A. BRUSILOV! In 1915-1916. YET! Hello "Bulkokhrustam"! Oh, how they don't like to remember about it! THIS only "Reds" arranged their meat grinder ...
                        And in 1941 "detachments" first APPEARED IN THE VERMACHT! And that's a FACT! And only then - in the Red Army.
            2. 0
              16 May 2020 07: 22
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Haha, this is such a "category of enemies of the people" or something - an orator
              Since the end of the 19th century. in science there is a surge of interest in the topic of "mass and leader". A good lecturer will not become a leader, because he uses logic, appealing to the mind of the audience. The orator, with the help of rhetoric, breaks logic, skillfully plays with the audience's emotions and encourages the crowd to act impulsively; the leaders of the masses emerge from them. And potential leaders are always at gunpoint.
      2. -8
        12 May 2020 09: 45
        Quote: Plantagenet
        o eloquence we had, but what a thing, but we etched him


        very eloquent and bright the best propaganda film 1936-1937 year "The circus":
        My country is widespread,
        There are many forests, fields and rivers in it!
        I do not know another such country,
        Where man breathes so freely.

        Spring wind blows over the country
        Every day is happier to live,
        And no one in the world can
        It’s better to laugh and love us.

        much more convincing for the masses!

        but it’s not for the masses (they didn’t have the right to know, didn’t deserve it, didn’t come out with mugs, apparently) from only one NKVD message for the same 1937 g- HOW "breathed and" laughed "the person":
        In the Kamensky district, in recent days, 2 deaths from starvation were again noted, in the Chembarsky district - 2 cases, in the Svishchevsky, Issinsky, Kuznetsk, Kochkurovsky and Tengushevsky districts - one case each. Altogether during the winter in 14 districts there were 62 starvation deaths. In a number of collective farms of Teleginsky, Staro-Shaigovsky, Bezenchuksky, Klyavlinsky, Tagaysky, Penza and other districts (total 52 districts) swelling collective farmers from malnutrition. There were also cases of swelling from hunger in the families of the Red Army. Eating various surrogates is observed in the vast majority of collective farms of districts, . In the Red Sloboda, Kamensky and other areas noted eating fell.

        In the Staro-Kulatkinsky district, there was an attack of a crowd of more than 200 people at a bakery. The crowd broke the doors to boutiquesn and began to grab a loaf of bread, which was no more than 150 kg. At the same time, a pregnant woman was hushed up, who immediately had premature birth.

        Due to food difficulties in the area homelessness and poverty are growing. In the city of Kuznetsk at the railway station in recent days 20 homeless children left by collective farmers of the Neverkinsky district when leaving for work were selected. In sec. Isaevka of the Chembarsky district do not attend school, and up to 40% of schoolchildren are impoverished. . On the collective farms of the Petrovsky district, 16 families of collective farmers engaged in poverty have been established.

        collective farmer farm them. Blucher of the Svishchevsky district Botov had seven children, in December 1936 he had two children who, being weakened by malnutrition died. . In order to buy bread Botov podal your home.
        etc. etc.


        and it’s a pity they didn’t know ...
        1. -3
          12 May 2020 10: 57
          Where is it about MILLIONS of starvation deaths?
          1. -2
            12 May 2020 11: 52
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            Where is it about MILLIONS of starvation deaths?

            where are you looking? belay

            it 1937 year, not 1933.

            this (1937) year is already built socialism and the year when:
            "Agriculture flourishing".
            Stalin


            and for whom kept the people. stating this to him though. what in
            14 districts took place 62 starvation deaths. swelling and eating
            ?
            1. -1
              12 May 2020 12: 27
              What, again quotes cuts Olga?
              The audit found that acute food difficulties are a consequence not so much of the shortage of 1936 as criminal inactivity and slowness of rural and district organizations ... For example, in 5 Litvinovsky District collective farms, where acute food difficulties are felt, 40 centners of food were spent on livestock fodder loans ... Due to the extremely soulless and criminal attitude of the chairman of the N.-Archinsky village council of the Telegin district of Kulikov, a member of the CPSU (B.), in early January of this year in the village Joy committed suicide collective farmer Zakharov ...
              For example, the collective farmer of the collective farm. Blucher Svishchevsky district Botov had seven children and had the right to receive multi-family allowance in the amount of 2 thousand rubles. However, the grant was delayed and in December 1936 two children fell ill with him, who, weakened by malnutrition, died. Therefore, the amount of the allowance was reduced by 1 thousand rubles. But behind these 1 thousand rubles. Botov went to the district center 12 times (distance 25 km). Botov repeatedly appealed for assistance to the chairman of the rick Golenbeev and yet he received only 300 rubles so far. In order to buy bread Botov sold his house

              In a number of places, the principle of free trade in bread is grossly violated. In the regional center of Kerensk, the district consumer union, installed by the head of the regional internal trade agency Feofanov, a member of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, instead of selling bread in stalls, organized buffets in each institution and sold bread according to lists. The sale of bread on the lists stopped. Material on Feofanova transferred to the district prosecutor.
              It seems that Feofanov with his acquaintances turned out to be innocently repressed.
              Large size in a number of areas, mainly the most affected by the shortage of 1936, took the dumping of livestock, which is individually used by collective farmers. Most cows are slaughtered for meat or sold and exchanged for bread
              Well, about comedies, during the Great Patriotic War they shot at least a film newsreel with comedy plots, but Olgych did not know about this, of course.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. +2
        12 May 2020 08: 36
        According to Russian scientists, the demographic losses in 1932–33 due to a decrease in the birth rate, exacerbation of diseases associated with hunger, deportations, and repressions amounted to 3531 thousand people in Ukraine [36] [37], 1.3 million people in Kazakhstan, the Volga region - 0.4 million people, in the North Caucasus - 1 million people, in other regions - 1 million people [37]. At the same time, direct losses from hunger amounted (in the Volga region) to approximately three quarters, with the number of direct victims of hunger at 365 people and indirect losses due to a drop in the birth rate in the same region by 722 people [115].
        1. +1
          12 May 2020 09: 09
          Quote: kalibr
          According to Russian scientists, demographic losses in 1932-33 due to a decrease in the birth rate
          What kind of scientists are there, where is the link? I just found this in VK.
          And this is not counting the fact that heaps of famine in the Volga 21-22 years and the famine of the beginning of the 30s dumped in a heap. Decent level, you will not say anything !.
          1. +2
            12 May 2020 10: 27
            The link is the simplest. Wikipedia And in it there are numbered links to the works of the respective authors. But you can see the data on the GARF archive website. There are copies of documents. There are a number of interesting dissertations on this subject and monographs. If you are interested, I can post data on them.
            But the most important thing is that Olgovich didn’t shit. Here you clearly got excited ...
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                1. 0
                  12 May 2020 12: 30
                  What is it? The numbers are one on one with yours, scientists only let us down.
              2. +3
                12 May 2020 12: 31
                1 Hungry years on the territory of the Russian Empire and the USSR
                2 Prerequisites for the emergence
                2.1 Forced collectivization
                2.2 Grain procurements
                2.3 Anti-theft
                2.4 Repression against the rural population
                2.5 Socialization of livestock
                3 Consequences of famine
                4 The actions of the Soviet leadership to combat hunger in 1933
                5 Disaster Estimates
                5.1 On the territory of the Ukrainian SSR
                5.2 On the territory of the Kazakh ASSR
                5.3 On the territory of the Byelorussian SSR
                6 Memory of the victims
                7 See also
                8 Notes
                9 Literature
                10 References
                Here is the wiki content. What Russian scientists wrote about is in the section "Estimates of the scale of the disaster". More about Ukrainian scientists ... No need to juggle, in the era of the Internet it looks stupid.
                1. -1
                  12 May 2020 12: 43
                  Quote: kalibr
                  No need to juggle, in the era of the Internet it looks stupid.

                  That's right, there are more than one articles on the Wiki, and abstract "Russian" scientists turned into Ukrainian ones.
                  1. +3
                    12 May 2020 13: 27
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    "Russian" scientists turned into Ukrainian ones.

                    You have a "yes", I have no. See the sections of the Wikipedia article ... Especially for you in the list of sections you need highlighted. This is where the data on our historians. Ours. On Ukrainian further. But if you want to be confused ... with a finger, then please.
                    1. 0
                      12 May 2020 14: 13
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Especially for you in the list of sections the necessary is highlighted. This is where the data on our historians. Our

                      And I was not too lazy, I downloaded the text from the link.
                      According to Russian scientists, demographic losses in 1932–33 due to a decrease in the birth rate, exacerbation of diseases associated with hunger, deportations, and repressions amounted to 3531 thousand people in Ukraine [36] [37]

                      https://vk.com/doc-23433303_437517347?hash=3a155236103d97dad0&dl=b5566b625df003ef97
                      And here on this link, page 272 pops up so "Russian" scientist Stanislav Vladislavovich Kulchitsky that "the two-headed Russian eagle smokes with envy":
                      Head of the working group of historians under the Government Commission for the Study of the OUN-UPA. The contemporary works of S. V. Kulchitsky are mainly devoted to attempts to justify the heroization and rehabilitation of the OUN-UPA and the theory of the “famine-genocide of the Ukrainian people”

                      So you, Vyacheslav, before getting clever and writing anything:
                      Quote: kalibr
                      But if you want to be confused ... with a finger, then please.

                      first, follow the link yourself, otherwise the words about Radzinsky - "hack, opportunist and skygazer" will sooner be about you.
                      1. 0
                        16 May 2020 08: 31
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And here on this link, page 272 pops up so "Russian" scientist Stanislav Vladislavovich Kulchitsky
                        Russia is a multinational state in which even a dumb Ethiopian can become "our all." Therefore, the Nazis did not take root here (meaning in Russia, and not in the VO): they shke under the plinth, and not walk with torches.
          2. +4
            12 May 2020 11: 13
            I don’t know where you look ... And where everything is piled up. You were given figures for demographic losses in 1932-33.
        2. +2
          12 May 2020 21: 12
          Quote: kalibr
          According to Russian scientists, demographic losses in 1932-33 due to a decrease in the birth rate, exacerbation of diseases associated with hunger, deportations, and repressions amounted to

          Vyacheslav Olegovich, "demographic losses in 1932-33 due to a decrease in the birth rate, exacerbation of diseases associated with hunger, deportations, repressions were "not quite equal to the number of deaths from hunger. The number of deaths from hunger includes only people who died directly from hunger + people who died from" exacerbation of diseases associated with hunger. "And that's it!" Tying "other categories to this is the height of cynicism and / or idiocy.
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          About Olga Olhych squeaked, however, as usual.

          ALL MORTALITY !!! The USSR for 1932-33, calculated on the basis of the data of the registry office and TsUNHU, is 3,2 - 3,4 million .. So, yes, millions. This time, Olgovich didn’t.
          1. +3
            12 May 2020 22: 15
            Quote: HanTengri
            amounts to 3,2 - 3,4 million .. So, yes, millions.

            So am I about the same ...
            1. +3
              12 May 2020 22: 28
              Quote: kalibr
              So am I about the same ...

              I, in principle, about the correctness of some of the studies referenced by Aunt Vika. There is no need to twist the numbers artificially. There is enough without it ...
              And the fact that some local plasma Marxists do not know this ... So ask them what the proletariat is, according to Marx, and see what they say! lol
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. +1
          12 May 2020 10: 23
          If everything I have described deserves the attention of the Central Committee, send to the Veshensky district authentic communists who would have the courage, regardless of their faces, to expose everyone whose fault the region's collective farm was mortally undermined, who would really investigate and discover not only all those who applied the disgusting “methods” of torture, beatings and abuse to collective farmers, but also those who inspired this.
          It is impossible to ignore what has been going on in the Veshensky and Verkhne-Don regions for three months. Only you hope.
          And as the lies about millions starved to death?
          1. +2
            12 May 2020 11: 11
            You have already been answered this question. Add all the numbers and you will have a total of millions. You can go to the GARF website, there is a whole selection of documents about hunger in the USSR. Everything is...
            1. -1
              12 May 2020 12: 09
              As you can see, if we subtract from the mortality rate for 1932 the average mortality rate for 1929-1931, it turns out that in addition 138 thousand people died that year. Further. If we summarize the number of deaths for 1933-1936 (3036,9 thousand people) and subtract from this amount the number of deaths for 1928-1931 (2086 thousand people), we get 950 thousand people, which together with additionally died in 1932 will amount to 1088 thousand people. If we add about 300 thousand people who died in other zones of hunger, then we get about 1,5 million people. Interestingly, in table 1 on the same Wikipedia (2), the total mortality rate in 1933 was only 1552,2 thousand people. And if so, then the number of victims can be reduced by another 300 thousand people.
              https://narodna.pravda.com.ua/rus/history/46713afe4b9e8/
              There are such studies. Wiki edit, just remind.
              1. +3
                12 May 2020 12: 34
                Now refer to the GARF materials ... They are not correct!
            2. -1
              12 May 2020 12: 48
              Quote: kalibr
              You can go to the GARF website, there is a whole selection of documents about hunger in the USSR
              Poke my nose into this "selection", there is nothing there.
              http://statearchive.ru/funds.html
              1. +3
                12 May 2020 12: 54
                Report of the inspector of the Pokrovsky district health department in the RK VKP (b) on the examination of the starving families of the district
                26 March 1932 city
                On behalf of the RK VKP (b), on March 24, 1932, I, Kisilev, examined several families of the Karpovsky village council to identify diseases due to hunger, and the following turned out to be.
                According to the statement of the chairman of the village council, Comrade Sukhanov, and the secretary of the cell, Comrade Medvedev, the village council received a number of written and oral statements from the collective farmers of this village that they and their families were sick from hunger. The following persons declared: Gorokhova Maria, Pautova Malanya, Rogozina Irina, Logacheva Ustinya, etc.
                The facts that the collective farmers eat dead animals, the chairman of the village council, cell secretary and other communists confirm. Personally, together with the chairman and other citizens, I went around the apartments of the aforementioned collective farmers, and also, as I personally wished, examined a number of houses, besides those listed, to make sure that they would not choose the worst families for me to demonstrate.
                Of the 20 houses I examined in the First and Second Karpovs, I met only in the Red Army’s house in a relative state of nutrition: a little flour and bread, and the rest eat surrogates. In almost every house there are patients: either children or mothers, undoubtedly because of hunger, since they have swelling of the face and whole body.
                A particularly creepy picture of the following families: the family of Konstantin Sidelnikov, who left to get bread for the last shirts, skirts, scarves of his wife, and his wife lies sick, giving birth to a child 5 days ago, and 4 young children, pale as wax, with swollen eyelids, like marmots sitting at the table and eat hot water from a common cup, into which a white liquid of dubious taste and sour smell is poured from the bottle, as it later turned out to be the reverse (a departure from milk transfer through a separator). Sidelnikov Konstantin and his wife are the best drummers-collective farmers, the old collective farmers.

                Sidelnikov Yakov has 2 children and old parents, who are 70 years old, living in the same room, but eat separately, since the old people get surrogates for their belongings, the son of Sidelnikov Jacob for their own. Food substitutes hide their exhibits from each other on the street (the exhibits of which are attached herewith). Old people with tears ask the doctor: "Give death."
                Borodin Philip earned 650 workdays, has a wife and 5 children, from one and a half to 9 years, his wife is lying on the stove is sick, two children are sitting on the stove, like pale wax with swollen faces. A one and a half year old child sits on the window, a pale, swollen, 9-year-old boy lies sick on the earthen floor, covered with tatters, while Philip Borodin himself sits on the bench and continuously smokes craps of a disgusting surrogate, cries like a child, asks for death for children. With tears, he asks Comrade Sukhanov: “Give me at least 1 kg of potato, give me at least 1 liter of milk, because I worked all summer and now work tirelessly” (now he cares for the bulls, and in the summer shepherded cows). According to Sukhanov, the foreman of the collective farm "Red Partisan" Borodin was an unrequited worker. This Borodin does not even have food substitutes. Two days ago, he ate two dead piglets thrown out of the common yard. In Borodin’s house, impossible dirt and stench mixed with tobacco smoke. Borodin scolds the children: "Damn it, you’re not dying, at least not looking at you."
                Objectively examining the state of Borodin himself, I ascertain that he (Borodin) begins to fall into a psychosis due to hunger, which could lead to the fact that he will eat his own children.

                I examined a number of families during lunch, where they consumed the same food surrogates that they eat with hot water, and in some houses (two) there were gnawed bones of a dead horse. According to the explanation of the collective farmers, the surrogates attached to you are prepared in the following order: push the stalks of sunflower, push the flax in the mortars - seeds, ovoste, ponds, colza, quinoa, dried potato husk, hemp seed and bake cakes. Of the above-mentioned surrogates, oilseeds are nutritious, which are useful for mixed foods containing vitamins, vegetable fats themselves, oil of vitamins do not contain and without impurities other foods that are more equivalent in nutrition and calorie content, and at the same time, when consumed without impurities, these oils are poisonous and only harm the body. Ground of decision: general hygiene course prof. G.V. Khlotsina, pp. 60−431.
                Dirty houses, around houses polluted by human feces, due to diarrhea from these surrogates. People walk like shadows, speechless, dull, houses empty with clogged windows (about 500 homeowners left somewhere unknown from Karpovo village, abandoning their homes), you rarely see animals on the streets (obviously, the last ones were eaten).
                In the whole village (1 thousand yards) I met only two hens and a rooster, and occasionally a skinny dog ​​will be met.
                The impression that the Karpovskoye village is as if suspended (in hibernation, smeared, filled up). The thatched roofs of houses and sheds are uncovered.
                Reporting on the foregoing to the Pokrovsky RK VKP (b), as a district health inspector and a doctor, I ask you to take urgent measures to provide assistance to the starving and on practical measures to inform me.
                District health inspector doctor Kiselev.
                TSA FSB of the Russian Federation. F. 2. On. 10. D. 513. L. 256−251.
                1. -1
                  12 May 2020 13: 08
                  What, what is it? Is this a link to the GARF? No. What is it for? Does anyone deny hunger in those years, or many hundreds of thousands of deaths? Personally, I do not. But why lie about millions?
                  1. +3
                    12 May 2020 15: 26
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    many hundreds of thousands of deaths? Personally, I do not. But why lie about millions?

                    Add up hundreds of thousands to make millions.
                    1. -2
                      12 May 2020 15: 31
                      Hundreds of thousands are made up of hundreds, thousands and tens of thousands, but millions are already obtained from manipulating numbers.
                      1. +1
                        12 May 2020 21: 46
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Hundreds of thousands are made up of hundreds, thousands and tens of thousands, but millions are already obtained from manipulating numbers.


                        Count the supermortality for 1932-33. And check for yourself - millions or not. (data given in thousand people)
                      2. 0
                        13 May 2020 03: 11
                        This tablet is muddy, give a reference to the source.
                      3. +2
                        13 May 2020 12: 28
                        I collected this tablet last year when I tried to prove to Olgovich that not 1932 or 33 million, but much less, died from the famine of 15-7.
                        go to Istmat. All these figures are there, in the statistical documents of the corresponding years.
                      4. 0
                        13 May 2020 15: 59
                        Thank you, but I would like a direct link, a lot of time is left to shovel in context, and even more so in the picture.
                      5. +1
                        13 May 2020 19: 38
                        http://istmat.info/files/uploads/44830/rgae_4372.92.161_l.1-34.pdf
                        Table No. 3.
                        Barely found, damn it. I forgot the name of the document. (Information on the population of the USSR according to the registry office, on the estimates of TsUNHU and a comparison of the results of the census of 1926, 1937 and preliminary data of the census of 1939. February 20, 1939 (So, there you go! laughing )) And without this, you can search until the second coming.
                      6. +1
                        14 May 2020 04: 07
                        Thanks, downloaded, browsing. And it seems I’m forced to agree with the figure of supermortality that you quoted about 2,5 million in two years, if the document is genuine of course.
                        However, there are quite plausible explanations for this in addition to hunger.
                        https://lenta.ru/articles/2015/11/28/golodomor
                        Moreover, in the summer of 1932 more people died than in the hungry winter of 1932-1933.
                        A simple calculation shows that this “abnormal”, abnormal mortality in 1933 accounts for about 75 thousand people in cities and 800 thousand in villages, that is, more than half of those who died in that fateful year in Ukraine, by definition, could not die of hunger. What's the matter? ..... The evidence was surprisingly easy. The Dnipropetrovsk regional department of the GPU in a memorandum dated March 5, 1933 reports: “In the Novovasilievsky district, high mortality refers to mass diseases of tropical malaria, which has become a mass epidemic with a large number of deaths.”
                        Controversial? Perhaps, but certainly only Olgyche-like "Russophiles" can broadcast about the "Holodomor".
                        U.I. Mukhin also has debriefings, but he is a comrade too original, although in Katyn it’s just a hammer.
                  2. +4
                    12 May 2020 15: 30
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    What, what is it? Is this a link to the GARF?

                    This is another archive. But who cares? You won’t get into any of them anyway, so wait until I contact them, get information and write a few more articles on this topic. Do not hurry...
                    1. -1
                      12 May 2020 15: 32
                      Quote: kalibr
                      This is another archive. But what difference does it make to you

                      This is nice, they were broadcasting about GARF, but here is such an affront.
                      1. +2
                        12 May 2020 16: 07
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        This is nice, they were broadcasting about GARF, but here is such an affront.

                        It will be about the GARF. It’s just that the FSB turned up first in hand (they just now opened up a lot of documents on repressed people!) And RGASPI. Not all at once, haste - he wrote, good at catching fleas.
                      2. -2
                        12 May 2020 20: 07
                        Quote: kalibr
                        It will be about the GARF.


                        .. Collection of documents “Hunger in the USSR. 1929-1934 years. "


                        Organizers and participants:

                        Federal Archival Agency
                        State Archive of the Russian Federation
                        RGAE
                        RGASPI
                        Federal Archival Agency

                        State Archive of the Russian Federation (GARF)

                        Russian State Archive of Economics (RGAE)

                        Russian State Archive of Socio-Political History (RGASPI)

                        Central Archive of the Federal Security Service (CA FSB of Russia)
                      3. -1
                        13 May 2020 05: 27
                        As usual, look for it as you want. Well, I found
                        http://www.rusarchives.ru/publication/hunger-ussr/1933.shtml
                        The heaviest unit the document reports no more than
                        According to additional (far from complete) data, during the past months of 1932, 14549 people died on the basis of industrial difficulties, of which 2500 died in September and October.
                        And that’s all, the rest is about hundreds of deaths, dozens and isolated cases of starvation deaths! Hard reading, but you won’t be able to count millions! And at the same time no less than documents on food assistance, food loans and other things. And there is direct sabotage or squandering and theft.
                      4. -3
                        13 May 2020 11: 20
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        As usual, look for it as you want. Well, I found
                        http://www.rusarchives.ru/publication/hunger-ussr/1933.shtml
                        The heaviest single document reports no more than
                        According to additional (far from complete) data, during the past months of 1932, 14549 people died on the basis of industrial difficulties, of which 2500 died in September and October.
                        And that’s all, the rest is about hundreds of deaths, dozens and isolated cases of starvation deaths! Hard reading, but you won’t be able to count millions!


                        for half an hour, dispelled the malicious slander against the fuzzies? lol

                        By the way, what did they themselves NOT say ANYWHERE ANYWHERE and themselves did not count and did not publish the number of victims of the worst in the history of famine?

                        You would just write right now: "According to the calculations of the Central Statistical Administration of the USSR. Declared at the 17th Congress of the All-Union Communist Party of Belarus and published in the statistics collection and the newspaper Pravda, the number of people living in hunger is nnn.

                        And today they make you climb into the jungle, count, strain. lol

                        Here’s another half an hour reading documents about several million victims,
                        The tragedy of the Soviet village. Collectivization and dispossession. 1927 - 1939 Doc and mat. T. 3. The end of 1930 - 1933. M. 2001;
                        Danilov V.P., Zelenin I.E. Organized hunger. To the 70th anniversary of the peasant tragedy // Patriotic History. 2004. No. 5.

                        [THE SOVIET VILLAGE WITH THE EYES OF THE OGPU - NKVD Volume 3. 1930 - 1934 Book 2.1932 - 1934]

                        "Population of the Soviet Union. 1922-1991"
                        [EAT. Andreev, L.E. Darsky, T.L. Kharkov. Demographic History of Russia: 1927-1957]

                        Lorimer F. The population of the Soviet Union:
                        History and Prospects. Geneva, League of Nations, 1946; Urlanis
                        B.Ts. Problems of the dynamics of the population of the USSR. M., 1974, p. 310; Wheatcroft
                        SC Famine and Factors Affecting Mortality in the USSR: The Demographic
                        Crises of 1914-1922 and 1930-1933 // Reported in Vevey Switzerland.
                        July 1981. Symposium The Famine History. Birmingham University;
                        Anderson BA and Silver BD Demographic Analysis and Population
                        Catastrophes in the USSR. // Slavic Review. 1985, 44, No. 3, p. 517-536;
                        Conquest R. Harvest of sorrow // New World, 1989, No. 10, p. 179-200;
                        Maksudov S. Losses of the population of the USSR. Benson / Vermont: Chalidze Publications,
                        1989; Tsaplin V.V. Statistics of the victims of Stalinism in the 30s // Questions
                        history, 1989, no. 4, p. 178; "Soviet culture" from
                        March 31, 1990; Andreev E.M., Darsky L.E., Kharkov T.L. Population
                        Soviet Union. 1922-1991. M., 1993; Ivnitsky N.A. Famine 1932-1933
                        years. M., 1995.

                        Read, add and ... refute their numbers lol
                      5. 0
                        13 May 2020 11: 47
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        for half an hour, dispelled vicious slander against the white fuzzies
                        There are documents that Olgych cited, which in no way allow millions to be counted.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And they make you climb into the jungle today, count, strain

                        Well, it’s clear to Olgych that it’s enough to throw Russophobic agitation, why should he strain, his Russophobe brothers have already strained.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Anderson BA and Silver BD. Conquest
                        How many Conquest counted there? 8 million? And what is so little, hohlohistoriki caught up to 10, whom to believe then?
                      6. -3
                        13 May 2020 13: 58
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        There are documents that Olgych cited, which in no way allow millions to be counted.

                        Oh, you are even more cool: thousands pages of documents and analysts mastered and even ... rejected in just 20 minutes! belay lol good
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        it is clear to Olga that enough Russophobian agitation is thrown over, why should he strain, his Russophobe brothers have already strained.

                        so imagine Bolshevik reports the communists 30 years (40,50,60,70,80yy,) THEIR catastrophe analyzes, angry articles in "truth". Izvestia ", etc., angry speeches at congresses, on the radio, conclusions from indicating the correct numbers of victims famine in the country. arranged by them. WHO is in the way?

                        and provide their explanations. . why they didn’t shoot themselves. when they realized what they had done. And they lived for themselves. happily ever after. like nothing happened.

                        Shaw, dumb? Nothing?

                        They had no time to bother with such trifles as the martyrdom of millions?

                        and are these people?

                        or else look? seek, seek and present to all!

                        but they talked about exactly that — on the terrible day of the terrible February of 33, when more than 10 peasants died of hunger. (as in other days of autumn, winter and spring)
                        moreover, they said it in person to THE MOST PEASANTS::
                        "We have made the millions of the poor become wealthy people.

                        rescued from poverty and ruin, turned thanks to collective farms in wealthy people.


                        This is a great achievement, comrades. That is an achievement that the world did not know yet and which no state in the world has yet achieved.

                        Here are the practical ones, the tangible results of collective farm construction, the results of the fact that the peasantry took the path of collective farms.

                        Yes, the world has never known SUCH "achievements" in its history, and the result is generally amazing!

                        I have never met more cynicism ...
                      7. 0
                        13 May 2020 17: 52
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        There are documents that Olgych cited, which in no way allow millions to be counted.

                        Oh, you’re even more cool: thousands of pages of documents and analysts have mastered and even ... rejected in just 20 minutes!
                        Umishko let Olgych turn on
                        Olgovich (Andrey) Yesterday, 20:07
                        Vladimir_2U (Vladimir) 5 Today, 05:27
                        20 minutes, yeah. And this miracle (Olgych) something about the calculations bleats.
                        And this is not counting the fact that
                        Collection of documents “Hunger in the USSR. 1929-1934 years. "
                        Project URL: http://portal.rusarchives.ru/publication/hunger-ussr/index.shtml

                        there are no thousands of pages on this link, plus the name of each document posted, but Olgych is not a reader, he is a thrower of links, and he prepares them filthy, intentionally by itself.
                        Well, if Olgych considers nonsense of outspoken Russophobes like Konquist and other ideological brothers of Ol'gych to be analytics, then yes, their names are enough not to dive into their inventions anymore. (which, moreover, have been reread for a long time). In general, it has long been clear that for Ol'gych the "counts" of the Russophobes of both the Anglo-Saxon and the Hohlobander spill are an indisputable truth, that Ol'gych is such a "Russophile".
                        The founding father of the figure of 7 million victims of famine in 1932-33. is Robert Conquest with his book Harvest of Sorrow. For this book in 1994, he received the Taras Shevchenko National Prize of Ukraine, and in June 2006 he was awarded the Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise
                        .
                        https://alexandr-palkin.livejournal.com/3167915.html
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        submit Bolshevik reports of the communists of the 30s
                        Wow! Why would Olga demand from me? Let him lead, trample on them. Something did not hesitate to bring documents,
                        Collection of documents “Hunger in the USSR. 1929-1934 years. " it’s true that he could not read, much less comprehend them. Although there are sane assessments, not Hohlobander’s
                        For example, by February 1922, the number of hungry people in Chuvashia amounted to about 595 thousand people. out of 850 thousand of the population of autonomy, and more than 12 thousand people who died of hunger. [85]. In other words, the number of deaths from starvation was 2% of the number of starving people. I talked a lot with my mother, she lived in Novocherkassk and with my wife - her relatives lived in Yeysk. As such, the hunger there was very moderate. They ate quinoa, grass, weakened died, but not all. A comparison of these testimonies with the stories of survivors of the siege of Leningrad suggests that this hunger was much easier to tolerate than the famine during the siege of Leningrad. But even, based on the ratio of the number of deaths to the number of starving people equal to 10%, the number of victims of hunger in Ukraine will be less than 500 thousand people. So, the number of victims of famine in Ukraine is in the range of 0,5-0,94 million people.

                        https://stalinism.ru/kollektivizatsiya/taynyi-goloda-30-h.html

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        on the terrible day of February 33, when more than 10 peasants died of hunger. (as in other days of autumn, winter and spring)
                        moreover, they said it in the face of THE MOST PEASANTS
                        What expression, a powerful gurgle, but where does the figure come from, will Olgych lead a link? And does Olga understand the stupidity of his own statement about hunger in the village in the fall?

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I have never met more cynicism ...
                        Here's how Russophile can with such aplomb support the fabrications of frank Russophobes? That's where true cynicism, or schizophrenia.
                      8. -3
                        14 May 2020 08: 33
                        [quote = Vladimir_2U] [quote = Olgovich] There are documents that Olgych cited, which in no way allow millions to be counted.

                        Oh, you’re even cooler: thousands of pages of documents and analysts mastered and even ... rejected in just 20 minutes! [/ Quote] Umishko, let Olgych turn it on
                        [quote] Olgovich (Andrey) Yesterday, 20:07
                        Vladimir_2U (Vladimir) 5 Today, 05:27 [/ quote] 20 minutes, yeah. And this miracle (Olgych) something about the calculations bleats.
                        And this is not counting the fact that
                        Collection of documents “Hunger in the USSR. 1929-1934 years. "
                        Project URL: http://portal.rusarchives.ru/publication/hunger-ussr/index.shtml

                        there are no thousands of pages on this link, plus the name of each document posted, but Olgych is not a reader, he is a thrower of links, and he prepares them filthy, intentionally by itself.
                        Well, if Olgych considers nonsense of outspoken Russophobes like Konquist and other ideological brothers of Ol'gych to be analytics, then yes, their names are enough not to dive into their inventions anymore. (which, moreover, have been reread for a long time). In general, it has long been clear that for Ol'gych the "counts" of the Russophobes of both the Anglo-Saxon and the Hohlobander spill are an indisputable truth, that Ol'gych is such a "Russophile".
                        [quote] The founding father of the figure of 7 million victims of famine in 1932-33. is Robert Conquest with his book Harvest of Sorrow. For this book, in 1994 he received the Taras Shevchenko National Prize of Ukraine, and in June 2006 he was awarded the Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise [/ quote].
                        https://alexandr-palkin.livejournal.com/3167915.html
                        [quote = Olgovich] submit Bolshevik reports of the communists of the 30s [/ quote] Wow! Why would Olgych demand from me? Let him lead, trample on them. Something did not hesitate to bring documents,
                        Collection of documents “Hunger in the USSR. 1929-1934 years. " it’s true that he could not read, much less comprehend them. Although there are sane assessments, not Hohlobander’s
                        [quote] For example, by February 1922, the number of hungry people in Chuvashia was about 595 thousand people. out of 850 thousand of the population of autonomy, and more than 12 thousand people who died of hunger. [85]. In other words, the number of deaths from starvation was 2% of the number of starving people. I talked a lot with my mother, she lived in Novocherkassk and with my wife - her relatives lived in Yeysk. As such, the hunger there was very moderate. They ate quinoa, grass, weakened died, but not all. A comparison of these testimonies with the stories of survivors of the siege of Leningrad suggests that this hunger was much easier to tolerate than the famine during the siege of Leningrad. But even, based on the ratio of the number of deaths to the number of starving people equal to 10%, the number of victims of hunger in Ukraine will be less than 500 thousand people. So, the number of victims of famine in Ukraine is in the range of 0,5-0,94 million people. [/ Quote]
                        https://stalinism.ru/kollektivizatsiya/taynyi-goloda-30-h.html

                        [quote = Olgovich] on the terrible day of the terrible February of 33, when more than 10 peasants died of hunger. (as in other days of autumn, winter and spring)
                        moreover, they said it in person to THE MOST PEASANTS [/ quote] What expression, powerful gurgle, but where does the figure come from, will Olgych give a link? And does Olga understand the stupidity of his own statement about hunger in the village in the fall?

                        [quote = Olgovich] did not meet more cynicism ... [/ quote] Here's how a Russophile can with such a rd
                        You are given a dozen works that you have mastered in ... 20 min

                        Shame ....

                        Today there is only one OFFICIAL document of the state on the number of victims: the State Duma’s declaration of SEVEN million victims.

                        Your Russophobian party did not bother to WISE a word either about hunger or about victims: it was much more interested in the case of SCOTT than people: they traced and wrote about cattle, not about people.

                        Russophobic power because MILLIONS of Russian people died of HUNGER during it, and the Russian people, in just 70 years, from the fastest growing, full of strength and energy, turned into an endangered, weak aging. Russia itself CUTTED by FIVE Million km2.

                        These are just facts.
                      9. -1
                        14 May 2020 08: 54
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        on the terrible day of February 33, when more than 10 peasants died of hunger. (as in other days of autumn, winter and spring)
                        moreover, they said it in the face of THE MOST PEASANTS
                        Where is the source of gurgling, Olgych?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You are given a dozen works that you have mastered in ... 20 min
                        What a scream! Like Olgych read it all himself. Well, Olgycha's mind is not able to master the fact that much was read before Olgychev's "research and revelations".
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Today there is only one OFFICIAL document of the state on the number of victims: the State Duma’s declaration of SEVEN million victims.
                        There is also an official recognition of the president and the Duma about the fault of the USSR in the Katyn execution. Very, very patriotic recognition of the deceitful Polish and Goebbels version. As false as the figure of 7 million starvation.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Your Russophobian party did not bother to WISE a word about either hunger or victims: it was much more interested in the case of SCOTT than people: it was they who traced and wrote about cattle, not about people

                        Maybe Olgych will give "research" about the death of livestock in 32-33 years, but not in a degenerative manner of tattered quotes without reference, of course.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Russian people, in just 70 years, from the fastest growing, full of strength and energy, turned into an endangered, weak aging
                        Well, these degenerative pro-Western howls are not new.
                      10. -3
                        14 May 2020 10: 19
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Where is the source of gurgling, Olgych?

                        Stalin's speech to the peasants, in the face, about their prosperity in the terrible cannibal February-gurgle? fool
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        As false as the figure of 7 million starvation.

                        This is an OFFICIAL STATE assessment. Research based

                        your authority is officially Shamefully and cowardly kept silent- about the results of its activities, which led to millions of victims, for I was afraid until the PIG squeal, that they will be ASKED and destroyed.

                        о cattle your Central Committee wrote in '33, and about people - neither
                        the words!
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Well, these degenerative pro-Western howls are not new.

                        These are FACTS, ignoramus.
                        Russian Cross and the borders of the 17th century -it is exclusively the work of YOUR Russophobian government.
                        CENTURIES of the titanic work of the people are DESTROYED by it.

                        first places in the WORLD on alcoholism, abortion, tobacco smoking, homicide, suicide, divorce, rape, also Her work.

                        These are just FACTS. Murderous for you.
                      11. -1
                        14 May 2020 11: 07
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Stalin's speech to the peasants, in person, about their prosperity in the terrible cannibal February-gurgle?
                        Pretending to be an idiot, huh, Olgych?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        on the terrible day of February 33, when more than 10 peasants died of hunger. (as in other days of autumn, winter and spring)
                        Where does the source of THIS gurgle come from?
                        And Stalin’s speech, from where it is shameless, however, as usual for Olgych and his ilk, quotes are torn out, here
                        SPEECH I.V. Stalin at the First All-Union Congress of Collective Farmers
                        http://grachev62.narod.ru/stalin/t13/t13_39.htm
                        We have ensured that the millions of poor people who used to live hungry now are now on collective farms middle peasants, have become wealthy people. We have succeeded in undermining the stratification of the peasants into the poor and kulaks, smashing the kulaks and helping the poor to become masters of their labor on collective farms, to become middle peasants.
                        By expanding the collective farm construction, we succeeded in destroying this mess and injustice, breaking the kulak bondage, drawing the whole mass of poor people into collective farms, giving them a secure existence there and raising them to the level of middle peasants who could use collective farm land, benefits for collective farms, and tractors agricultural machinery.
                        What does it mean? This means that at least 20 million peasants, at least 20 million poor people were saved from poverty and ruin, saved from kulak bondage and turned into wealthy people thanks to collective farms

                        We have achieved what we have raised thanks to collective farms the poor to the level of the middle peasants. It is very good. But this is not enough. We must now achieve one more step forward and help all collective farmers — both the former poor and the middle peasants — to rise to the level of the prosperous. This can be achieved and this we must achieve at all costs
                        For a particularly "gifted" Olgych, in the years of famine, long before the Revolution, and the kulaks were starving, not to mention the middle peasants
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        As false as the figure of 7 million starvation.

                        This is an OFFICIAL STATE assessment. Research based
                        Well, as usual, the deceased Olgych is a master at tearing quotes, you can check them right there, is it really not clear?
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        There is also an official recognition of the president and the Duma about the fault of the USSR in the Katyn execution. Very, very patriotic recognition of the deceitful Polish and Goebbels version. As false as the figure of 7 million starvation.
                        Has Ol'gych abruptly forgotten about the Katyn lie and its recognition by the Duma and the President? Or does Olgych also recognize the Polish and Goebbels' version? The fact that the "Russophile" Olgych recognizes the thoroughly Russophobic English and ukrobander figures of hunger is understandable, but what about Katyn the same? The answer is where?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        your Central Committee wrote about the case of SCOTT in 33
                        Links where, Brehunishko?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        These are FACTS, ignoramus.
                        The Russian Cross and the borders of the 17th century is exclusively the work of YOUR government.
                        CENTURIES of the titanic work of the people are DESTROYED by it.
                        the first places in the WORLD in alcoholism, abortion, smoking, homicide, suicide, divorce, rape are also Her work.
                        It is useless to poke Olgych's nose into his idiotic accusations of Soviet power. But I’ll still ask if Olgovich is so dumb and does not understand. that it is easy to check this "data"? And that under Soviet power there was noticeably less booze than under the little tsar, and that criminal abortions are much more dangerous than legal abortions for women, and that the figures for tobacco are average worldwide, and there are simply no words for murders and suicides, except for the question, is Olgych an idiot?
                      12. -3
                        14 May 2020 11: 37
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Pretending to be an idiot, huh, Olgych?

                        think you got infected from you?
                        Nope!
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Where does the source of THIS gurgle come from?

                        Divide the number of victims by the number of days. And it can’t? belay
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And Stalin’s speech, from where it is shameless, however, as usual for Olgych and his ilk, quotes

                        quotes are given expressing the MEANING of what has been said. Only the idiots cite the whole speech, the article. a book. This is stupid and nobody does it.

                        And the meaning is simple-dying poor. in person, called wealthy people.
                        do you agree. that wealthy people die of hunger?

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Has Ol'gych abruptly forgotten about the Katyn lie and its recognition by the Duma and the President? Or does Olgych also recognize the Polish and Goebbels' version? The fact that the "Russophile" Olgych recognizes the thoroughly Russophobic English and ukrobander figures of hunger is understandable, but what about Katyn the same? The answer is where?

                        belay fool
                        1 where ... question? fool
                        2. topic, what are we discussing?
                        3. Tsffry-RUSSIAN official. . Give the Soviet official liar. And -NO such -your cowards were afraid.

                        your unbelief is the least. What are you interested in
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Links where, Brehunishko?

                        in e.

                        Central Committee indicated, year too.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        It is useless to poke Olgych's nose into his idiotic accusations of Soviet power. But I’ll still ask if Olgovich is so dumb and does not understand. that it is easy to check this "data"? And that under Soviet power there was noticeably less booze than under the little tsar, and that criminal abortions are much more dangerous than legal abortions for women, and that the figures for tobacco are average worldwide, and there are simply no words for murders and suicides, except for the question, is Olgych an idiot?

                        Under the Emperor 0,2 l. With you18 liters / person.
                        Growth in 90 times .
                        Got it, no?

                        and so on.
                        Or what are you from Russian cross you made?

                        it is built out of YOUR alcohol produced in the unthinkable state, tobacco, your abortion (200 million). your reasons. murders, etc.

                        dawned not?
                      13. -1
                        14 May 2020 11: 52
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Pretending to be an idiot, huh, Olgych?
                        think you got infected from you?
                        Nope!
                        Sami, all by yourself? This is clear.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Where does the source of THIS gurgle come from?
                        Divide the number of victims by the number of days. And it can’t?
                        Why would false numbers be used. I am not Olga.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        quotes are given expressing the MEANING of what has been said. Only the idiots cite the whole speech, the article. a book. This is stupid and nobody does it.
                        Quotes are cited and not torn out of context.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The fact that the "Russophile" Olgych recognizes the thoroughly Russophobic English and ukrobander figures of hunger is understandable, but what about Katyn the same? The answer is where?
                        1 where ... question? fool
                        2. topic, what are we discussing?
                        3. Tsffry-RUSSIAN official. . Give the Soviet official liar. And -NO such -your cowards were afraid.
                        Exactly, pretending to be an idiot.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        but what is the same with Katyn?
                        It's not a question? If you recognized a knowingly false version with Katyn, then it means that you knowingly false figures about hunger. What, it is not clear, although this is Olgych.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Links where, Brehunishko?

                        in e.
                        Central Committee indicated, year too.
                        What a wonderful link, this is extravaganza, extravaganza of ignorance and deceit.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Under the Emperor 0,2 l. With you, 18 liters / person.
                        90 times growth.
                        Got it, no?
                        Hosspadi, Olgych really thinks that this completely idiotic figure cannot be verified? That’s who, after that, Olgych. Yes, and even check is optional
                        Teetotalers demanded the closure of taverns, and sometimes it came down to the pogroms of drinking establishments. The Minister of Finance, who felt the loss in the treasury, by a special decree banned temperance gatherings [16] and “destroy existing sentences on abstinence from wine and continue to prevent them” [17].
                        However, in May 1859, activists proceeded to the defeat of drinking establishments - these unrest swept 15 provinces of the Middle and Lower Volga region, the Urals and the Center of Russia [18] [19].
                        The rebellion was pacified by troops who received orders to shoot the rebels. 11 thousand people were sent to prison and hard labor.
                        The teetotalers were thrown into hard labor! Whether Olgych will catch the connection is doubtful.
                        There are no communists such as Olgych in power and what do we see?
                        According to a number of experts [21] [22], in Russia there is a very strong alcohol lobby, which blocks anti-alcohol laws. As a result of the fact that excise taxes were given to the regions, the local authorities merged with vodka producers
                      14. 0
                        14 May 2020 12: 08
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Quotes are cited and not torn out of context.

                        quotes and are given. context-appropriate.
                        blind?
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Exactly, pretending to be an idiot.

                        the idiots don’t notice -The figures are RUSSIAN official. . Give the Soviet official liar. And -NO such -your cowards were afraid.
                        you have nothing for your soul.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        What a wonderful link, this is extravaganza, extravaganza of ignorance and deceit.

                        you can not, do not torture! Yes
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Hosspadi, Olgych really thinks that this completely idiotic figure cannot be verified? That’s who, after that, Olgych. Yes, and even check is optional
                        Teetotalers demanded the closure of taverns, and sometimes it came down to the pogroms of drinking establishments. The Minister of Finance, who felt the loss in the treasury, by a special decree banned temperance gatherings [16] and “destroy existing sentences on abstinence from wine and continue to prevent them” [17].
                        However, in May 1859, activists proceeded to the defeat of drinking establishments - these unrest swept 15 provinces of the Middle and Lower Volga region, the Urals and the Center of Russia [18] [19].
                        The rebellion was pacified by troops who received orders to shoot the rebels. 11 thousand people were sent to prison and hard labor

                        so where data consumption,. chatterbox, in Russia and with you, eh?

                        they are murderous for you bankrupt!

                        the same for tobacco, abortion, etc.
                      15. 0
                        14 May 2020 14: 10
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quotes are cited and not torn out of context.
                        quotes and are given. context-appropriate.
                        blind?
                        Olga they tear out, brazenly and stupidly:
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        As false as the figure of 7 million starvation.

                        This is an OFFICIAL STATE assessment. Research based
                        Well, as usual, the deceased Olgych is a master at tearing quotes, you can check them right there, is it really not clear?
                        The quote without Katyn was RIPPED out by a false Olga, an honorary citator of the Verkhovna Rada, but this is not accurate. Here is the full quote.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        There is also an official recognition of the president and the Duma about the fault of the USSR in the Katyn execution. Very, very patriotic recognition of the deceitful Polish and Goebbels version. As false as the figure of 7 million starvation.
                        So what about Katyn? What does Olgych dodge the answer? Either Olgych admits that the Duma adopted the false version of Katyn, and therefore could accept the false figures about the famine, or Olgych considers the Polish-Goebbels version of Katyn to be true!
                        Ay, a direct question, I will duplicate it for the little mind of Olgych: Does Olgych recognize the Polish-Goebbels version of the execution in Katyn as true, as does the State Duma? Yes or no? Direct link with "officially recognized" hunger figures.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Give the Soviet official liar
                        There is only a liar here, because there are no figures officially reported by the Soviet government of human losses from the famine of 1932-33. As there are no such figures about US casualties during the Great Depression. Who is Olgych to demand official figures from the Soviet government?
                        That's right, NOBODY!
                        But I do not mind giving statistics:
                        http://istmat.info/files/uploads/44830/rgae_4372.92.161_l.1-34.pdf
                        Will Olgych give such statistics in the USA over the years of the Depression? It’s unlikely because it is SECRET and still, unlike the Soviet. Personally, I believe that at least 5 million people died of starvation in the United States then.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        so where are the consumption figures, .boltun, in Russia and with you, huh?

                        Precisely, Olgych imagines that only he can use the Internet.
                        According to statistics, the consumption of wine drinks per capita in 1890 was 2,46 liters, in 1910 - 4,7 liters, 1913 - just over 6 liters.
                        Since 1914, an anti-alcohol company began in Russia, which allowed it to reduce the figures to a record level of 0,2 liters per year. The Soviet government in the first years of its reign also directed all its forces to maintaining a sober lifestyle among citizens. This policy bore fruit until the 60s of the last century. If in 1960 the level of alcohol consumption per person was 3,9 liters per year, then in 1970 - 6,7 liters, in the mid-80s - 11 liters, in 5 - 1994 liters, in 15 - 1995 liters in year.

                        https://www.alcoclinic.ru/poleznaja-informacija/alkogolizm-v-rossii/
                        Cook, in 1913 at 6 liters. was there another king? 18 liters in 1995 under the rule of Russophobes such as Olgych spilled onto Russia. This stupid bullshit is your Olgych, so brazenly and stupidly tear out the figure of 0,2 liters and stick it to 18 liters. in YELTSINSKY Russophobic Russia, under the guise of a country of Soviets, this is the deceit and insolence of the true Olga-Bandera.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        the same for tobacco, abortion, etc.
                        What is so, I suddenly forgot about the killings, and Olgych, full of memory, ayayay
                        And again: a direct question, for Olgych: Does Olgych recognize the Polish-Goebbels version of the execution in Katyn as true, like the State Duma? Yes or no?
                      16. -2
                        14 May 2020 14: 46
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Olga they tear out, brazenly and stupidly:

                        are given for the ignorant.

                        WHAT is out of context, liar?
                        The poor have become prosperous people, And they have died in millions (at the same time) - did they get it?
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        So what about Katyn? What does Olgych dodge the answer? Either Olgych admits that the Duma adopted the false version of Katyn, and therefore could accept the false figures about the famine, or Olgych considers the Polish-Goebbels version of Katyn to be true!
                        Aw, a direct question, I’ll duplicate for umishka Olgych: Does Olgych recognize the Polish-Goebbels version of the execution in Katyn as true, like the State Duma? Yes or no? Direct link with "officially recognized" hunger figures.

                        not the slightest connection.

                        In Katyn, I believe FACTS and DOCUMENTS: in Manchuria, the disappeared Poles were not found, nor were they found not a single letter of them home after May 1940, although before that they regularly wrote.

                        where were they from 1940 to summer 1941?

                        Goebbels didn’t get to the shooting pits under the Copper, by the way.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        https://www.alcoclinic.ru/poleznaja-informacija/alkogolizm-v-rossii/
                        Cook, in 1913 at 6 liters. was there another king? 18 liters in 1995 under the rule of Russophobes such as Olgych spilled onto Russia. This stupid bullshit is your Olgych, so brazenly and stupidly tear out the figure of 0,2 liters and stick it to 18 liters. in YELTSINSKY Russophobic Russia, under the guise of a country of Soviets, this is the deceit and insolence of the true Olga-Bandera.

                        18 liters is your figure for 91 years, alkgoliki, the maximum in Russia was 4.7 liters. But you captured Russia, pr. 0,2 liters.

                        Yes, do not forget that yours. Soviet record (FIRST PLACE in the world for alcohol consumption - not broken by any other country.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        What is so, I suddenly forgot about the killings, and Olgych, full of memory, ayayay


                        chop on your forehead. ignoramus power is first places in the world by alcoholism. abortion. smoking. rape. divorces. to the killings. suicides and inmates.
                      17. 0
                        14 May 2020 16: 43
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The poor have become prosperous people, And they have died in millions (at the same time) - did they get it?
                        Is it clear that at that time no one was safe from hunger? Although it is unlikely to Olga.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        for a particularly "gifted" Olgych, in the years of famine, long before the Revolution, and the kulaks were starving, not to mention the middle peasants
                        Supplement, and starving, long before the Revolution.
                        ... In our area, a peasant is considered rich when he has enough of his own bread before "novi". Such a peasant no longer needs to sell his summer labor to the landlord, he can work all summer for himself, and consequently, he will get rich, and soon he will have enough grain not only for "new", but also for "new".

                        https://yandex.ru/turbo?text=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perunica.ru%2Fstfoto%2F10126-zazhitochnoe-krestjanstvo-kulachestvo-vo-vtoroj-polovine-hih-nachale-hh-vv.html
                        And this is without any crop failures and other calamities. Just not a laborer the peasant was already considered rich! But then, apparently, the farmer sees Olga on seven tractors, while Olga is.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Ay, a direct question, I will duplicate it for the little mind of Olgych: Does Olgych recognize the Polish-Goebbels version of the execution in Katyn as true, as does the State Duma? Yes or no? Direct link with "officially recognized" hunger figures.
                        not the slightest connection.
                        Yes, of course, no connection, Olgych and logical connections, really funny. But I’ll try on my fingers: the State Duma recognized the clearly false Polish-Goebbels version of the execution in Katyn, which means that the State Duma can recognize obviously falsified data as true. And this means that the figures of those who died of hunger recognized by the Duma can be (in fact, they are) falsified.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        According to Katyn, I believe FACTS and DOCUMENTS: in Manchuria, the disappeared Poles were not found, nor were they found a single letter home after May 1940, although before that they regularly wrote.
                        where were they from 1940 to summer 1941?
                        Goebbels didn’t get to the shooting pits under the Copper, by the way.
                        What is Olga swirling wet-tailed creature
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And again: a direct question, for Olgych: Does Olgych recognize the Polish-Goebbels version of the execution in Katyn as true, like the State Duma? Yes or no?
                        Yes or no?
                        About Mednoe, the Germans WERE in Mednoe. This is available on the website of the administration with. Copper. But the Poles there on their second visit, violating all the rules of the excavation, without the supervision of the Russian authorities piled the "evidence" brought with them into the excavation
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        18 liters is your figure for 91 years, alkgoliki, the maximum in Russia was 4.7 liters. But you captured Russia, pr. 0,2 liters.
                        Olgych pretends or really such a degenerate ?! Here is the data with the link!
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        in 1910 - 4,7 liters, 1913 - a little more than 6 liters.
                        Since 1914, an anti-alcohol company began in Russia, which allowed it to reduce the figures to a record level of 0,2 liters per year. The Soviet government in the first years of its reign also directed all its forces to maintaining a sober lifestyle among citizens. This policy bore fruit until the 60s of the last century. If in 1960 the level of alcohol consumption per person was 3,9 liters per year, then in 1970 - 6,7 liters, in the mid-80s - 11 liters, in 5 - 1994 liters, in 15 - 1995 liters in year
                        6 liters in 1913, 0,2 with a direct ban !, (how is it with moonshine, why? Was moonshine considered in official statistics?) And 18 liters in 1995! Under Yeltsin, America’s best friend! Well, what a stupidity to lie right at the given data!
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        chop on your forehead. ignoramus power is the first place in the world in alcoholism. abortion. smoking. rape. divorces. to the killings. suicides and prisoners ... Yes, do not forget that yours. Soviet record (FIRST PLACE in the world for alcohol consumption - not broken by any other country.
                        Will the "scientist" (like a parrot, apparently) Ol'gych give evidence of this idiocy? He is not able to answer YES or NO.
                        And again: a direct question, for Olgych: Does Olgych recognize the Polish-Goebbels version of the execution in Katyn as true, like the State Duma? Yes or no?
                      18. -2
                        15 May 2020 06: 57
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Is it clear that at that time no one was safe from hunger? Although it is unlikely to Olga.

                        There has never been such a disaster in history.

                        has reached. not?
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Supplement, and starving, long before the Revolution.

                        Before the Thief, tens of years after 1892, they did not die.

                        But under YOU, after the Thief, many MILLIONS died: 21,22,24,25,27,32,33,37,46,47 yy-in the middle of the 20th century - DISAPPOINT!
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Yes or no?
                        About Mednoe, the Germans WERE in Mednoe. This is available on the website of the administration with. Copper. But the Poles there on their second visit, violating all the rules of the excavation, without the supervision of the Russian authorities piled the "evidence" brought with them into the excavation

                        1. More YES than NO.
                        for not a single trace living people after spring 40 g - NO.

                        2. They reached the Copper, but NO to the graves.

                        3. "Piled on Poles"? In Russia? fool lol
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        6 liters in 1913, 0,2 with a direct ban !, (how is it with moonshine, why? Was moonshine considered in official statistics?) And 18 liters in 1995! Under Yeltsin, America’s best friend! Well, what a stupidity to lie right at the given data!

                        Your data - into the tube and there, yeah! Yes

                        to the thief -0,2 l the maximum in Russia was 4,7 liters.
                        USSR in the mid-1980s14,9l-FIRST PLACE IN THE WORLD! For alcoholics, first, for deaths from alcohol, first.
                        A half-drunk village ...
                        disgrace ......
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Will the "scientist" (like a parrot, apparently) Ol'gych give evidence of this idiocy?

                        is there really a school for those with developmental delays? belay
                        "By herself. By herself!" lol hi
                      19. -1
                        15 May 2020 13: 51
                        What is the use of referring to the degenerate shrill Olgych, he does not cite any evidence other than Russophobic clicks.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And again: a direct question, for Olgych: Does Olgych recognize the Polish-Goebbels version of the execution in Katyn as true, like the State Duma? Yes or no?
                        Hey, a wet-tailed shrill creature under the nickname Olgych, no answer is visible from Olgych.
                      20. -2
                        16 May 2020 08: 39
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        What is the point of linking for degenerative shrill Olgych, he then does not cite any evidence except Russophobian clicks.

                        but there are no such: -NO Soviet research. analyzes. reports of commissions on the number of starvation deaths in Bolshevik rule. About the cattle case is. about the death of millions of people-NO

                        priorities are visible clearly
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        wet-tailed shrill creature

                        Little Johnny from the 2nd "U" never grew over 50 years... lol laughing
                      21. +1
                        14 May 2020 19: 29
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in Manchuria, the disappeared Poles were not found, nor were they found a single letter home after May 1940,

                        I have already asked you a question once - what happened to the Polish servicemen who were in the Brigidki prison, which was captured by the Germans on June 22 with all the prisoners on the outskirts of the Brest Fortress. There were more than thirty such prisons on the territory of Belarus alone (according to some sources, about 50), in which Polish prisoners were kept, and which were not evacuated deep into the USSR after the start of the war. Neither Poles nor Germans ever mention their fate in their documents, which they have opened - why would that be?
                      22. -3
                        15 May 2020 07: 04
                        Quote: ccsr
                        I have already asked you a question once - what happened to the Polish servicemen who were in the Brigidki prison, which was captured by the Germans on June 22 with all the prisoners on the outskirts of the Brest Fortress. There were more than thirty such prisons on the territory of Belarus alone (according to some sources, about 50), in which Polish prisoners were kept, and which were not evacuated deep into the USSR after the start of the war. Neither Poles nor Germans ever mention their fate in their documents, which they have opened - why would that be?

                        I do not know.

                        So what?

                        imagine the traces of the LIVING Poles (which are installed in the burials) after spring 1940 to summer 1941Letters, applications, documents, etc. .. Until the spring of 1940, they are, after-no.
                      23. -1
                        15 May 2020 14: 37
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        What is Olga swirling wet-tailed creature
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And again: a direct question, for Olgych: Does Olgych recognize the Polish-Goebbels version of the execution in Katyn as true, like the State Duma? Yes or no?
                      24. 0
                        7 June 2020 17: 32
                        While there is no official refutation, of course the truth
                      25. 0
                        15 May 2020 10: 20
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        itiots-do not notice -Digits-RUSSIAN official. .

                        And that our "official figures" could not be distorted for the sake of the political conjuncture of the drunk of the president? You can also tell us about the Chechen war from the words of Berezovsky, who then allegedly rescued the prisoners "for his own money", but in fact had a big gesheft from contacts with the leaders of the gangs. So there is no need to speculate on the "official figures" of that time - Yavlinsky tried to convince everyone that Sakhalin-1 was beneficial to us, but it turned out that thanks to him we still get practically nothing from this project. However, and so it is clear that you are using the term "official figures" of the time when you are pinned to the wall due to outright fraud, and no more.
                      26. -2
                        16 May 2020 09: 02
                        Quote: ccsr
                        And that our "official figures" could not be distorted for the sake of the political conjuncture of the drunk of the president?

                        the wino died long ago by that moment, what conjuncture?
                        Quote: ccsr
                        You can also tell us about the Chechen war from the words of Berezovsky, who then allegedly rescued the prisoners "for his own money", but in fact had a big gesheft from contacts with the leaders of the gangs. So there is no need to speculate on the "official figures" of that time - Yavlinsky tried to convince everyone that Sakhalin-1 was beneficial to us, but it turned out that thanks to him we still get practically nothing from this project.

                        don’t bother with your head and bring nonsense about INCOMPARABLE things — which Chechens have been cheating for 33 years?
                        Quote: ccsr
                        ... However, and so it is clear that you use the term "official figures" of the time when you are pinned to the wall because of outright fraud, and no more.

                        who pinned and, most importantly. than?
                        YELLOW? lol

                        Millions of starvation victims are not disputed by anyone, except for frank tebils.

                        There are data from historians, demographers, scientists, an OFFICIAL STATE assessment, they are opposed by an OFFICIAL conscientious silence and a LIE and a miserable bleating from 2 U " lol
                      27. 0
                        16 May 2020 12: 22
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        the wino died long ago by that moment, what conjuncture?

                        Then it was fashionable to water the USSR with shit - you, for example, have still not gotten rid of this habit.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Millions of starvation victims are not disputed by anyone, except for frank tebils.

                        The number of millions of dead is disputed, because 3-4 million is one figure, and when they lie that there were more than 10 million, the question arises for what purpose lies are spread like you.
                      28. 0
                        16 May 2020 12: 45
                        Quote: ccsr

                        Then it was fashionable to water the USSR with shit - you, for example, have still not gotten rid of this habit.

                        how the Bolshevik government SAMA threw itself out in rme-no one else can
                        Quote: ccsr
                        The number of millions of dead is disputed, because 3-4 million is one figure, and when they lie that there were more than 10 million, the question arises for what purpose lies are spread like you.

                        3-4 million .....- not enough ?! belay

                        WHERE is your official SOVIET victim rating. reasons for the culprits. and?
                      29. +1
                        16 May 2020 13: 17
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        3-4 million .....- not enough ?!

                        No, not a little, but comparing these figures with the losses of tsarist Russia from starvation, when there were much more rural people, it becomes scary why we were the largest exporters of grain, and the people were dying of hunger in the Russian Empire.
                      30. -1
                        16 May 2020 14: 26
                        Quote: ccsr
                        No, not a little, but comparing these figures with the losses of tsarist Russia from starvation, when there were much more rural people, it becomes scary why we were the largest exporters of grain, and the people were dying of hunger in the Russian Empire.

                        You are ignorant: SUCH. as with yours, in Russia and in the world, it was NEVER.

                        and the cannibalistic bread export was precisely in 1930s.

                        MILLIONS have already died in 1932 in the spring of 33, and grain exports have been stopped already ....April 1933!

                        no words ... negative
                      31. +1
                        16 May 2020 17: 41
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You are ignorant: SUCH. as with yours, in Russia and in the world, it was NEVER.

                        Enlighten the pathetic liar:
                        SHARE OF HUNGERS IN THE POPULATION OF CENTRAL RUSSIA
                        (without Poland and without Finland) in 1891-1911 years
                        HUNGER: 1891 - 25,7% and 1892 - 9,1%. In 1893 - 0,1%, 1894 - 0,5%, 1895 - 1,1%, 1896 - 2,2%,
                        1897 - 3,8%, 1898 - 9,7% 1899 - 3,2%, 1900 - 1,5%.

                        At the beginning of the XX century, Russia was hungry in Russia: 1901-1902, 1905-1908 and 1911 - 1912 years.
                        In 1901 - 1902, 49 provinces starved: in 1901 - 6,6%, 1902 - 1%, 1903 - 0,6%, 1904 -― 1,6%.
                        In 1905 - 1908. starved from 19 to 29 provinces: in 1905 - 7,7%, 1906 - 17,3% of the population
                        In 1911 - 1912 over the 2 of the year, famine swept 60 provinces: in 1911 - 14,9% of the population.
                        30 million people were on the brink of death.
                        According to various estimates in 1901-1912 years. about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences. The tsarist government was preoccupied with how to hide the scale of hunger. In the press, censorship forbade the use of the word “hunger,” replacing it with the word “underperformance.”
                        One can doubt the concrete figures about the number of deaths from starvation, but one cannot doubt that hunger was a regular and widespread phenomenon in tsarist Russia.
                        GRAIN FOR EXPORT. Despite the famine, grain flowed from Russia to Europe (as now oil and gas also go to Europe, bypassing Russia). On average, 30% of the bread was exported annually. So, the trade in bread was a necessary measure, and was not at all due to an excess of it. The Tsar’s Minister Vyshnegradsky, answering the accusations of selling bread abroad even during the famine in Russia, said from the rostrum of the State Duma: “We are undernourished, but we’ll take out!” This slogan was implemented.

                        http://www.domarchive.ru/history/part-1-empire/61
                      32. +1
                        15 May 2020 10: 09
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        THEIR analyzes of the catastrophe, angry articles in the "truth". Izvestia "and so on, angry speeches at congresses, on the radio, conclusions indicating the CORRECT figures of the victims of the famine in the country.

                        And you are not original - Shpakovsky, for example, suggested that we study the combat power of the Red Army on the eve of the war according to the advanced articles in "Krasnaya Zvezda" and "Pravda". There is such a figure on the Internet as Zakoretsky, so he even recommended to study "Pionerskaya Pravda" and the magazine "Rabotnitsa" in order to understand the course of the General Staff's plans in the coming war.
                        Do you really believe that all the authentic statistics of those years can be found in the editorials of party newspapers? Who's stopping you from relying not on newspaper articles, but at least party archival documents, or even better on the archives of the USSR State Statistics Committee?
                      33. -3
                        15 May 2020 10: 17
                        Quote: ccsr
                        But you are not original - Shpakovsky, for example, suggested that we study the combat power of the Red Army on the eve of the war on leading articles in "Krasnaya Zvezda" and "Pravda"... There is such a figure on the Internet as Zakoretsky, so he even recommended to study "Pionerskaya Pravda" and the magazine "Rabotnitsa" in order to understand the course of the General Staff's plans in the coming war.

                        What, the "truth" was lying ?! belay request

                        those. crowded for bd believed yes?
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Do you really believe that all the authentic statistics of those years can be found in the editorials of party newspapers? Who it’s stopping you from leaning on newspaper articles, and at least party archival documents, or even better to the archives of the Goskomstat of the USSR

                        nobody and nothing prevents me from relying on OFFICIAL SOVIET data on the number of starvation deaths and their causes in 32,33,37,46,47.

                        But they are NOT!
                      34. 0
                        15 May 2020 11: 09
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        What, the "truth" was lying ?!

                        Do you think that Shpakovsky brings you the light of truth in his books? Pravda is the organ of the CPSU Central Committee, and naturally it is not so much an information resource as Izvestia, but a propaganda one in the first place.
                        It is a pity that you and some others do not even understand this when they speculate on articles of those years.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        OFFICIAL SOVIET data on the number of starvation deaths and their causes in 32,33,37,46,47.

                        Well, let's links to them, which VO readers can study, and do not refer to articles in Pravda of those years.
                      35. -1
                        16 May 2020 08: 55
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Do you think that Shpakovsky in his books brings you the light of truth?

                        he true DOCUMENTS REPORTS.
                        It works for me.

                        not happy with those. who was hoping. that this truth will never come up.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Pravda is the organ of the CPSU Central Committee, and naturally it is not so much an information resource as Izvestia, but a propaganda one in the first place.

                        Don't talk nonsense: "There is no news in Pravda, and there is no truth in Izvestia" - this is a well-known conscientious aphorism.

                        Newspapers did not differ at all. printing the same lies and agitation, depriving people of their LEGAL right to know the truth: they are mugs, you see, according to the Bolsheviks, they didn’t come out.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        It is a pity that you and some others do not even understand this when they speculate on articles of those years.

                        I read them for more than thirty years and don’t think. that you are smarter than others
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Well, let's links to them, which VO readers can study, and do not refer to articles in Pravda of those years.

                        belay lol
                        so I write, they are NOT!

                        The Communists were afraid to the point of animal paranoid horror and fear of writing the truth about the millions of dead as a result of their experiments.

                        WHO would forgive them?

                        NONE. would dare them on. .
                        they were silent.
                      36. 0
                        16 May 2020 12: 17
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I read them for more than thirty years and don’t think. that you are smarter than others

                        I am not smarter than others - I just participated in the process of obtaining information for what you later read. Therefore, I know the price of prints, unlike you.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The Communists were afraid to the point of animal paranoid horror and fear of writing the truth about the millions of dead as a result of their experiments.

                        They were not afraid of a damn thing by and large - remember the Caribbean crisis, or the war in Vietnam.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        WHO would forgive them?

                        They definitely do not need your "forgiveness" - they were not very interested in the opinion of the marginal layers of society, they cared about the majority of the country's population.
                      37. -1
                        16 May 2020 12: 40
                        Quote: ccsr
                        I am not smarter than others - I just participated in the process of obtaining information for what you later read. Therefore, I know the price of prints, unlike you.

                        the price of your "publications" and, accordingly, your participation is ZERO.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        They were not afraid of a damn thing by and large - remember the Caribbean crisis, or the war in Vietnam.

                        lol laughing
                        Afraid to colic, therefore, they were silent about the CATASTROPHE. They wrote about the death of SCOTT, about the death of MILLION people-cowards.
                        Shame ....
                        Quote: ccsr
                        They definitely do not need your "forgiveness" - they were not very interested in the opinion of the marginal layers of society, they cared about the majority of the country's population.

                        don't you understand Russian at all?

                        written about the people of the 30s, who comm. handed marginals considered B.
                        again:
                        The Communists were afraid to the point of animal paranoid horror and fear of writing the truth about the millions of dead as a result of their experiments.

                        WHO would forgive them?

                        NONE. would dare them on. .
                        they were silent.

                        if today from hunger. from September to May, 7 million people died. with mass cannibalism and corpse-eating, who would forgive power, huh?
                        Do you think then people were thick-skinned, dumber were they, wanted to live less than you?
                      38. +1
                        16 May 2020 13: 14
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        if today from hunger. from September to May, 7 million people died. with mass cannibalism and corpse-eating, who would forgive power, huh?

                        So with us, and so the demographic losses during the years of democratic Russia have already exceeded all the losses from the Stalinist repressions - so think about who was better concerned about preserving the people.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Do you think then people were thick-skinned, dumber were they, wanted to live less than you?

                        No, I don’t think, on the contrary I think that they were great workers and worked for future generations. Only this new generation, in the person of people like you, proved that they tried in vain, since you spit on the past, numbing those who led the people to Victory and the second in the world GDP.
                      39. -1
                        16 May 2020 14: 18
                        Quote: ccsr
                        So with us, and so the demographic losses during the years of democratic Russia have already exceeded all the losses from the Stalinist repressions - so think about who was better concerned about preserving the people.

                        To think, you still need to KNOW that NO ONE generation born after 1910, i.e. , practically ALL soviet generations-Did NOT reproduce themselves.
                        Extinction since 1964, by 1991, the old people, few youth, who will give birth, eh?
                        Quote: ccsr
                        No, I don’t think, on the contrary I think that they were great workers and worked for future generations.

                        that is yes.
                        while the attitude was towards them, as above
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Only this new generation, in the person of people like you, proved that they tried in vain, since you spit in the past who brought people to Victory and the second in the world of GDP.

                        And how without these drivers Russia was saved for HUNDREDS in HUNDREDS of wars? belay

                        and they led - without any external wars and cataclysms - to Catastrophe 91 and the Ruska cross -. this is the result of the "drivers".
                        Like? not for me.
                      40. +2
                        13 May 2020 12: 46
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        "Population of the Soviet Union. 1922-1991"
                        [EAT. Andreev, L.E. Darsky, T.L. Kharkov. Demographic History of Russia: 1927-1957]

                        Olgovich, you, as always, refer to very controversial studies. The fact is that E.M. Andreev, L.E. Darsky, T.L. Kharkov. tighten up the numbers as they want, applying on nothing but their own convictions, an unfounded method of calculating the error correction of the statistics of the registry office and the calculations of TSUNHU. (Is it really convenient? Everything seems to be science-like, and you can count everything that your heart desires!)
                        But you are probably not interested in such trifles. The main thing for you is to count more and more terrible.
                      41. +1
                        13 May 2020 18: 04
                        Quote: HanTengri
                        Olgovich, you, as always, refer to very controversial studies
                        Are you kidding, is this a link in the 21st century? Olgych simply sprinkles with a mass of lines pulled out how and from where, (https://echo.msk.ru/blog/aillar/657314-echo/) from here for example, and for him Conquest the authority that the diagnosis. Minus from Olgych I blocked you. )))
                        And so,
                        But even, based on the ratio of the number of deaths to the number of starving people equal to 10%, the number of victims of hunger in Ukraine will be less than 500 thousand people. So, the number of victims of famine in Ukraine is in the range of 0,5-0,94 million people.

                        https://stalinism.ru/kollektivizatsiya/taynyi-goloda-30-h.html
                        as an example of calculations about hundreds of thousands of starvation victims.
                      42. +1
                        13 May 2020 19: 53
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Are you kidding, is this a link in the 21st century?

                        For me, yes. I read this, if I may say so, "research". (And, apparently, even before Olgovich got to him.)
                      43. 0
                        14 May 2020 02: 55
                        Quote: HanTengri
                        And, apparently, even before Olgovich got to him
                        In the case of Olga, he did not read such a 99% probability. )))
                      44. -2
                        15 May 2020 13: 13
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        But even, based on the ratio of the number of deaths to the number of starving people equal to 10%, the number of victims of hunger in Ukraine will be less than 500 thousand people. So, the number of victims of famine in Ukraine is in the range of 0,5-0,94 million people.

                        https://stalinism.ru/kollektivizatsiya/taynyi-goloda-30-h.html

                        This crazy tebil myroninia .... sigismund lol with a psychopath friend Mukhin, turn into a tube and, yes! Yes

                        In comparison with the monographs of SCIENTISTS, these ignorant libel-stupid propanagadas are pitiful and shameful lol
              2. +1
                12 May 2020 12: 56
                Is it worth it? Before you was VIKI. You saw in it only what you wanted. Look again, I brought you its subtitles above ... But I will certainly find interesting materials for you ...
                1. -1
                  12 May 2020 13: 04
                  Those. Are you unable to link? And what then to poke this GARF site, then you lie even in this smallness. But then Wiki with often crooked articles is authority, yes.
                  1. +3
                    12 May 2020 14: 02
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Those. Are you unable to link? And what then to poke this GARF site, then you lie even in this smallness. But then Wiki with often crooked articles is authority, yes.

                    I have not dealt with this topic. What is there with links to archives in front of you. If you are so interested in this topic ... I will contact the archives and write an article based on the data provided. And I do not approve of "cavalry assaults" ...
                    1. -2
                      12 May 2020 14: 16
                      Quote: kalibr
                      You can go to the GARF website, there is a whole selection of documents about hunger in the USSR. Everything is...

                      Quote: kalibr
                      I did not deal with this topic.
                      Why lie then? Will you give a link to "a whole collection of documents"? And, I forgot, there is no it, there is your lies, but there is no collection.
                      1. +2
                        12 May 2020 15: 24
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Why lie then? Will you give a link to "a whole collection of documents"? And, I forgot, there is no it, there is your lies, but there is no collection.

                        Will you bring a Wikipedia passage for the third time? If all the numbers are added, then there will be millions. Documents in front of you. With links to archives. One must be blind so as not to see them. Do you want a selection of documents? She will, do not worry. I just did not deal with this topic. And for starters, Wikipedia is enough. Everything that is used from it is taken from the section in bold. So do not rush. Rushing well when catching fleas. I’ll contact the archives, get copies of the documents and we will have another article, and not one, most likely, about the famine of 1932–33. It’s a pity that there are problems with the virus now and I personally can’t visit many of the archives. But this is a temporary difficulty ...
                      2. +1
                        13 May 2020 05: 29
                        http://www.rusarchives.ru/publication/hunger-ussr/1933.shtml
                        The heaviest unit the document reports no more than
                        According to additional (far from complete) data, during the past months of 1932, 14549 people died on the basis of industrial difficulties, of which 2500 died in September and October.
                        And that’s all, the rest is about hundreds of deaths, dozens and isolated cases of starvation deaths! Hard reading, but you won’t be able to count millions! And at the same time no less than documents on food assistance, food loans and other things. And there is direct sabotage or squandering and theft. No way to count millions! If you are not a Ukrainian "historian" of course.
                      3. +1
                        13 May 2020 06: 47
                        Look at the comment of KHAN TENGRI ... Here on the site ... He is not a Ukrainian historian ...

                        And here is what he writes: Super Mortality FOR ALL !!! The USSR for 1932-33, calculated on the basis of the data of the registry office and TsUNHU, is 3,2 - 3,4 million .. So, yes, millions.

                        And now what I write: You yourself all started it. Nobody, including myself, knows everything. I once saw something ... But I don’t keep it in my head. So be patient and wait. And everything will be for you, and articles, and archives, and millions - all-all!
                      4. +1
                        13 May 2020 07: 01
                        Quote: kalibr
                        He is not a Ukrainian historian
                        What kind of historian is he? Without a link, a muddy table and unconfirmed words are a sign of a historian? And, well, yes, you did not give a link to the GARF, you are appealing to Vicki, "Russian" scientists, in fact, turn out to be widespread golmore researchers, so yes, a historian. All signs.
                      5. +1
                        16 May 2020 10: 08
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        "Russian" scientists, in fact, turn out to be widespread research scientists
                        First, Kulchitsky was a normal Soviet professor from Odessa, who received an assignment from the Central Committee in 1985 and was one of the first to sit in the archives to study the issue. Secondly, the archives about the famine of 32-33. until 1985 were closed. The question is, why? Thirdly, the result of Kulchitsky's work was the thesis that the detachments that seized grain in other regions in Ukraine seized not only bread, but also other products, therefore, there were noticeably more people who died of hunger. This thesis should be discussed, since the figures of 2,5-3,5 million are not his statistics. This could be caused by the level of sabotage manifested during dispossession-decossackization, the desire of the Trotskyists to reignite the fire of the civil war in the USSR against the background of National Socialism looming in Europe, or other reasons. The motive was connected with the ethnos and Stalin, and the result was the "Holodomor". It has little connection with the topic of "millions".
                      6. 0
                        16 May 2020 13: 41
                        Quote: sniperino
                        Firstly, Kulchitsky was a normal Soviet professor from Odessa, who received a task from the Central Committee in 1985 and was one of the first to be archived to study the issue
                        Exactly what was.
                        Quote: sniperino
                        This thesis should be discussed as well. figures 2,5-3,5 million - this is not his statistics
                        I will not argue reluctantly with these numbers, thanks Khan Tengri, looked at copies of statistical documents. It is debatable that all the dead died of hunger.
                        Quote: sniperino
                        The motive was connected with ethnicity and Stalin, and it turned out to be a "Holodomor"

                        But at the same time, the numbers were extremely clocked up, but I think that you already know this.
              3. +4
                12 May 2020 13: 18
                From the informational summary of the Secret Political Department of the GPU on hunger in the North Caucasus
                7 March 1933 city
                Comrade Menzhinsky, Berry, Prokofiev, Agranov
                In certain settlements of a number of districts of the JCC, aggravation of industrial difficulties is noted.
                Facts of difficulty in the areas: Kurganinsky, Armavirsky, Novo-Aleksandrovsky, Labinsky, Nevinnomyssky, Mozdoksky, Essentuki, Crimean, Anapsky, Yeisk, Staro-Minsk, Kushchevsky, Tikhoretsky, Medvezhensky, Novo-Pokrovsky, Kanevsky, Krasnodar, Pavlovsky , Veshensky, Kalmyk, Konstantinovsky and Timashevsky.
                According to far incomplete data in these areas, the following has been taken into account:
                1742 people swollen from hunger.
                898 people became ill from starvation.
                740 people starved to death.
                Cases of cannibalism and carcass 10 people.
                In starving settlements, there are cases of eating various surrogates: meat of dead animals (including hoe horses), dead cats, dogs, rats, etc.
                TSA FSB of the Russian Federation. F. 4. Op. 11. D. 42. L. 62. A certified copy.
                1. +4
                  12 May 2020 13: 18
                  From the report of the head of the political department of the Samoilovsky MTS of the Lower Volga Region D. Mikhailenko about the difficult food situation on collective farms
                  17 May 1933 city
                  ... Some collective farmers in Elovatka have not been working since March, some collective farmers still participated in early sowing as seeders, but later they did not go to work, some of them were already expelled from the collective farms as loafers. By a personal examination on May 15 and 16, I found that a number of honest and conscientious collective farmers did not go out and did not go to work just because they were exhausted and had swelling on the body (chubby legs, face, stomach, constipation, etc.), because that from systematic malnutrition have become disabled.
                  I found that the feldsher point in Elovatka daily receives 10−20 people a day. patients due to exhaustion (with edema). I personally examined a number of collective farms and came to the conclusion that in Yelovatka hunger swept over most of the farms and threatened the extinction of collective farmers. Over the past 10 days, 45 people have died in Elovatka. (from 1 to 10 years old - 16 people, from 18 to 50 years old - 11 people and older than 50 years old - 18 people) There were cases when the bodies were not cleaned for several days due to the helpless state of other members of the deceased's family and in while able-bodied collective farmers are in the field. Found the facts of the burial of collective farmers on their estates without coffins. There was a case when two starving people went hunting for ground squirrels and didn’t return from there - they died at the ground squirrels ...
                  Head of Political Department D. Mikhailenko
                  RGASPI. F. 112. On. 32. D. 78. L. 26-27.
                  1. +3
                    12 May 2020 13: 20
                    Special summary of the Secret Political Department of the OGPU "On food difficulties in Kazakhstan"
                    November 5 1932 city
                    Difficulties observed in several regions of Kazakhstan continue to worsen.
                    According to additional (far from complete) data, during the past months of 1932, 14549 people died on the basis of industrial difficulties, of which 2500 died in September and October.
                    Currently, Turgai, Batbakkarinsky, Karsakpaysky and Kuva districts are experiencing particularly acute food difficulties. In these areas, agriculture is extremely undermined, livestock are almost completely destroyed, and the fields remain sown.
                    In the Batbakkarinsky and Turgai regions, the population is starving. Kazakhs feed on roots, ground squirrels, and mice collected in the steppe. The rooms of the RIKs are full of starving people, who immediately die.
                    In the Turgai region, where 50% of the crops were killed, 5 people died of starvation before October 4452. Every day, an average of 20 people die. In the district of 77 thousand people. have absolutely no food.
                    There are 8400 people in the Batbakkarinsky district without bread, and 900 farms organized on the collective farm have 100 hectares of crops.
                    In the Kuva region, on the Zhana-Zhol collective farm, collective farmers, collective farmers and young children, in the absence of other food, eat only greens. In the same area, on the Shuakal collective farm, 3-4 collective farmers die of hunger every day. In Karsakpay region, 2-3 people die every day.
                    In some areas, those in need of emergency food assistance make up between 50 and 95% of the population. So, in the Abralinsky district, 95% of the total population needs bread, in Kuva - 85%, Bayan-Aulsky - 60%, Pavlogradsky - 50%.
                    The following areas are also in dire need of food assistance: Chelkarsky, Tabyn, Atbasarsky, Akmolinsky, Zhana-Arkinsky and others.
                    In a number of regions of the East Kazakhstan and Karaganda regions, where until very recently, due to scarcity, acute difficulties were observed, and now, after a new crop failure, the population is provided with food only for the first one or two months. In these areas, there are already isolated cases of starvation and swelling.
                    The population of the starving regions is directed and settles, mainly in industrial cities and especially in Karaganda and Karsakpay. Since a significant part of the Kazakhs arriving in masses does not find work at local industrial enterprises, mortality and diseases from exhaustion are highly developed among them.
                    Without effective food assistance and the organization of auxiliary work and handicrafts for the Kazakh population, a number of regions of the Eastern, Karaganda, Alma-Ata and Aktobe regions. a month or two after harvest threatens a serious aggravation of difficulties. The decrease in starvation deaths and diseases from depletion that has recently been observed in a number of areas was the result of the provision of partial food assistance by the government and, in part, due to the theft of stalk bread, which became widespread in the Kazakh regions.
                    From the Turgai and Batbakkarinsky districts, as from the regions of inedible and boneless, currently 8 thousand farms are moving to adjacent bread districts of Semiozerny, Fedorovsky and others. This relocation almost exposes the Turgai and Batbakarinsky districts from the population.
                    Kazkrayk informed about the situation with the difficulties in the regions of Kazakhstan.
                    Head SPO OGPU Molchanov
                    Pom. Head of Department 2
                    SPO OGPU Sidorov
                    TSA FSB of the Russian Federation. F. 2. On. 10. D. 514. L. 234-236.
                    1. +1
                      13 May 2020 05: 28
                      http://www.rusarchives.ru/publication/hunger-ussr/1933.shtml
                      The heaviest unit the document reports no more than
                      According to additional (far from complete) data, during the past months of 1932, 14549 people died on the basis of industrial difficulties, of which 2500 died in September and October.
                      And that’s all, the rest is about hundreds of deaths, dozens and isolated cases of starvation deaths! Hard reading, but you won’t be able to count millions! And at the same time no less than documents on food assistance, food loans and other things. And there is direct sabotage or squandering and theft.
                2. +1
                  15 May 2020 10: 37
                  Quote: kalibr
                  From the informational summary of the Secret Political Department of the GPU on hunger in the North Caucasus

                  This report refutes the lie that the Bolsheviks staged a famine in Ukraine - it turns out that at that time there was even a famine in the Krasnodar Territory. Moreover, the very number of dead (740) for such a relatively large number of regions is not so great, and does not draw hundreds of thousands or millions of dead.
                  1. +2
                    15 May 2020 11: 14
                    Quote: ccsr
                    This report refutes the lie that the Bolsheviks staged a famine in Ukraine - it turns out that at that time there was even a famine in the Krasnodar Territory.

                    Absolutely. D.Sc. Professor V.V. Kondrashin spoke about this very well in 2010 to his Ukrainian colleagues at a scientific conference. But wait for the judgment of millions ...
                    1. 0
                      16 May 2020 10: 36
                      Quote: kalibr
                      But wait for the judgment of millions
                      That's it! I wrote a little higher that in the construction of the "Holodomor" the weakest elements, nmv, are the Nazi motivation ("against the Ukrainians") and Stalin's personal participation in excesses on the ground, if there were any, but that there were, I have less doubts about that ... Why did Stalin need it if he fought not with the Ukrainians, but with the Trotskyists during this period.
    3. 0
      12 May 2020 10: 02
      Quote: Olgovich


      And we have?

      1934, millions of people have just died of hunger in the country, and the "Funny guys" are singing with might and main "Easy on the heart ..." and "tyuh-tyuh-tyuh, our iron is on fire ...". calling on the whole country to rejoice ...

      Buna deminyase!
      That's right - life has become better, life has become more fun!
  7. +4
    12 May 2020 07: 40
    The author can not sell this waste paper in any way? Have you unfastened your ads?
    1. +4
      12 May 2020 08: 54
      Quote: sergo1914
      Have you unfastened your ads?

      And why is it that people raised under the USSR are always so worried about money issues, moreover, in someone else's wallet? Or do you think that the site administration is not viewing all the materials coming to it?
  8. +5
    12 May 2020 07: 55
    Thanks for the article, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    reaching an audience of 314 million people,
    It became interesting the origin of this number? According to the 1910 census, the US population was 92,2 million.
    1. +1
      12 May 2020 08: 02
      This is a committee count. They considered people who came to his events. That is, someone came both twice and thrice ...
      1. +2
        12 May 2020 08: 10
        Sorry, Vyacheslav Olegovich, but then the phrase is incorrectly written, in my opinion, it hurts the eye.
        1. +2
          12 May 2020 08: 40
          Well, maybe. But right now it's stupid to fix it.
    2. 0
      12 May 2020 10: 08
      Hello Anton hi
      Perhaps the whole English-speaking audience, including the WB and the colonies, was meant?
  9. +5
    12 May 2020 08: 52
    Creel Committee: Heavy Duty Weapon

    Here is also a good American doc film on this subject - From the Shadows:
    https://youtu.be/uW86cFB6WRM
  10. +3
    12 May 2020 10: 01
    But this article by Comrade Shpakovsky is really informative ...
    But in connection with the image of the author established at VO, not everyone will accept it ...
    1. +2
      12 May 2020 10: 23
      He catches the sounds of approval
      Not in the sweet murmur of praise,
      And in the wild cries of bitterness.
      ON THE. Nekrasov, 1952.
      1. +2
        12 May 2020 12: 45
        ON THE. Nekrasov, 1952.
        1852, Vyacheslav Olegovich. And, to be precise, completely off topic. The poem "Blessed is the gentle poet" was directed against the aesthetes who called for a departure from real life.
        Where did you find them on the site? Suvorov with Olgovich esthetes? The fact that they are already quite far from realities is not aesthetics; it smells more like dementia.
        As for public opinion and the ways to manipulate it, it seems to me that since you have already begun to cover this issue, then for the sane reader it would be necessary to somehow somehow state it. And then wears you, sorry for the comparison, like a broom in a bathhouse.
        You should not start with the pharaohs, but with fama publica or vox et fama communis you can already. Then Shakespeare, John Locke and so step by step to ... Well, if you think you have made a significant contribution to this issue, to to Shpakovsky. Although, as for me, Lipman is more worthy of the article. But everything is in your hands.
        1. +3
          12 May 2020 13: 25
          Quote: Undecim
          But everything is in your hands.

          That's it, that's why everything will be the way I like it, and the way I consider it necessary. But the broom in the bathhouse is a necessary thing, and don’t say ... And by personalities and Lipman there will be Ivy Lee ... there is enough time ahead. You can’t do it all at once ... Next time it will be about my personal experience, then about the Second World War ... then ... then it will be later!
          1. +2
            12 May 2020 13: 36
            That's it, that's why everything will be the way I like it, and the way I consider it necessary.
            But who can argue? Audience requests shouldn't be ignored though. On the other hand, it is difficult to screw up an article about Tarde about "personal experience" ... As Cicero said there: "Even those philosophers who wrote treatises against fame did not forget to put their name in the title of their book."
            1. +1
              12 May 2020 13: 59
              Quote: Undecim
              Although the requests of the audience should not be ignored.

              It is sacred. But the audience is also ... different, Viktor Nikolaevich. There is one that thinks, there is one that puts clicks ... The balance must be respected!
              1. +2
                12 May 2020 18: 26
                It even became interesting to which audience I belong? laughing
                1. +3
                  12 May 2020 18: 36
                  You, Anton, belong to a very good audience with which it is pleasant to talk and discuss, which asks interesting questions that are always pleasant to answer. Such an audience in my opinion is a gift of fate.
                  1. +1
                    12 May 2020 19: 13
                    Thank you for your kind words, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Most of all in our communication I am attracted by your courage to admit your ignorance in some issues.
                    1. +2
                      12 May 2020 20: 36
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      Your courage to admit your ignorance in some issues

                      Well, I'm not a fool! Only they all know and make no mistakes.
        2. -2
          12 May 2020 21: 02
          Quote: Undecim
          Where did you find them on the site? Suvorov with Olgovich esthetes? The fact that they are already quite far from realities is not aesthetics; it smells more like dementia.


          This narcissistic smug mug, which through the lip, down and like. diagnoses, apparently, considers himself ... an esthete? belay lol

          banned for MAT and rudeness in the comments in his previous, "curious" and other lives (why did the site visitors disdain (and still disdain) to communicate with him)? request

          Tell this, alas, somewhat stupid (since he does not know elementary things) "esthete" (or even better, his guardians!) That it is the psychos who consider themselves the most, that neither is, ... healthy people.
          And they should, it is worth taking care .....hi
  11. +4
    12 May 2020 16: 13
    Good article, Vyacheslav Olegovich. hi
    From myself, I want to add that the methods of information impact on the population for a hundred years, although they have stepped far forward, but the basic principles of propaganda have remained unchanged. And in general, no one is able to resist well-organized information pressure, even if he is at least seven spans in the forehead. If a person is in the general information space, he will absorb it, whether he wants it or not, and, accordingly, this space will affect him.
    There is, however, one way to weaken this influence. It is necessary to form a stable installation within yourself, which will automatically ignore all information influences that do not fit into it. Here, by the way, it should be noted that the wider the range of topics covered by this installation, the dumber and more limited its carrier becomes, so it is important not to overdo it in this matter. smile By the way, several vivid examples of people who, consciously or not, I can’t judge, have quite succeeded in creating such an impenetrable installation, can be observed here on the site. About such people say "at least a count on your head". smile The influx of information from outside does not affect their worldview. smile
    But it is interesting - are there any special universal subtle methods for overcoming such attitudes? At one time, when I often had to conduct interrogations, I, based on textbooks on legal psychology and forensic science, and more on my own intuition, developed several algorithms to overcome the resistance of the interrogated. True, they only helped me and not always, but they did help. And this is, after all, a one-on-one conversation or one against two (I mean a lawyer). But how, for example, purely theoretically, it is possible to develop such a program of informational influence, so that, for example, all those who believe in the truth of the "new chronology" - people of different ages, sex, occupation, wealth, intellectual potential living in different places - are returned to the real the world, so that they understand and realize that Fomenko's teaching is not even a delusion, but an outright and direct lie? Or are only direct measures based on administrative resources effective - censorship, control, prohibitions and repressions, coupled with active counter-propaganda? Well, that is, how is it usual in the entire civilized world?
    In general, I like this word - "propaganda", especially in combination with the word "state". And why do the people dislike him so much? "We are being deceived!" Of course they are deceiving. Are you not deceiving anyone? Personally, I cannot say about myself that I have always been absolutely honest with everyone, just as I cannot say that I have always been honest with the state. If there is a person here who can say about himself that he is absolutely always honest with everyone, then ... I will not believe this liar. smile
    Lies, deceit, underreporting, etc. - an integral part of our life, we need them no less than air. Well, maybe a little less. smile And in state activities, in politics it is the most basic tool, there is no “more basic” one. smile
    And here I want to ask my colleagues one question. What do you think is better - when the state has reached perfection in propaganda, that is, in deceiving everyone who needs it and does it in such a way that no one, not a single person (except complete paranoid people, mentally ill people) suspects that he is a victim of fraud, or when the propaganda of the state is clumsy and shines through, so that more than half of those who are its goal do not believe in all these nonsense and are intensely seeking the truth? In which state would you like to live? In other words, what is better - to be qualitatively deceived without a chance to find out the truth or to be always in search of this truth?
    The question is directly created for discussion under a good bottle, I understand. But anyway? smile
    1. +3
      12 May 2020 17: 24
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      In other words, what is better - to be qualitatively deceived without a chance to find out the truth or to be always in search of this truth?

      It's scary, I'm with you, Mikhail! I wanted to bring this gradually, so to speak ... through the fact that "beautiful is always perfect", and "perfect is beautiful" even if it is ugly. I have already written the second material on the PR about this ... And then you ... understood everything, posted everything ... Very good comment. If I were writing a book now ... I would "steal" it into the text (with permission, of course!), Because it is very thought out. About methods of bypassing "impenetrable" ... Can be found, but only in personal contact. Here's how you - an investigator. At a distance, not knowing anything about a person is practically ... unreal.
      1. +1
        12 May 2020 20: 29
        Quote: kalibr
        I wanted to bring this gradually

        Excuse me generously, I did not want to ... smile
        Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, I, like every person, love to be praised, even if I doubt that it is deserved. smile
        Regarding the "impenetrable" - is there really no technique that allows you to analyze their general attitude (maybe the only thing they have in common) and pick up the "keys" to its destruction?
        Although, I probably, if I had developed such a universal method, would have kept it a secret, like an atomic bomb, out of harm's way. I recall the story or story of Alexander Belyaev "Mister Laughter". Well, his in fig, there the hero finished badly. smile
        1. +1
          12 May 2020 20: 41
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          I, like every person, love to be praised, even if I doubt that it is deserved.
          Regarding the "impenetrable" - is there really no technique that allows you to analyze their general attitude (maybe the only thing they have in common) and pick up the "keys" to its destruction?

          Well, it's true ... in terms of praise
          And as regards the methodology ... for example, I don’t really like children, not even very much. But he worked with them and for many years. And most of all he was afraid that they would notice it in the eyes. But ... no one noticed. So it’s very difficult to find such a technique without knowing the person.
    2. +2
      12 May 2020 19: 35
      Which state would I like to live in? Good question! In that which, while promoting an idea, is honest with its citizens.
      1. +2
        12 May 2020 20: 22
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        honestly with your citizens.

        In which officials do not abuse, managers do not row kickbacks, workers do not steal, the police do not take bribes, etc.
        That is, in a fictional. smile
        A state that is honest with its citizens is where you are the president, I am the prime minister, and there is no one else. And then, about myself, I'm not very sure. smile
        The paradox and justice of life is that the state consists of people, and an honest state should consist of honest people, but where to get so many if there are none? Well, if someone has the hope that a dishonest person will come to power and become honest - well, then medicine is powerless.
        smile
        1. 0
          12 May 2020 20: 47
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          consist of honest people, but where to get so many if there are none?

          Genghis Khan also asked such a question ... but he also could not find an answer!
      2. 0
        12 May 2020 20: 45
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        In that which, while promoting an idea, is honest with its citizens.

        My daughter has a great example of this in her PhD thesis. In Chapayevsk, they began to build a plant for the elimination of chemical weapons with American money. They came to see how they are spent. They ask: where is the money for processing public opinion so that it is "for"? And the officials to them: “And we are all for it.” And there is a protest rally outside the window ... The Americans looked and said: “You are spending the money incorrectly.” We will not give it any more. And the plant was never finished so! And as a conclusion: probably all governments and all states deceive their citizens, but those who deceive more than others and do not apologize - fall apart!
        1. +1
          12 May 2020 22: 54
          We must study the experience of Western Europe, there is an official for people, and not vice versa. In Germany, there are many federal states that can take their own rules of life and managing in them, for example, as a trucker, for example, travel restrictions on some days or environmental restrictions concern me. When an official doesn’t even need to be fired for the slightest violation of public morality, he will quit himself, but no, that’s how the journalists will help ...
        2. +1
          15 May 2020 10: 47
          Quote: kalibr
          The Americans looked and said: "You are spending your money incorrectly." We will not give any more. And the plant was so finished with construction and was not!

          And you are lying in an unscrupulous manner, because the construction stoppage was connected with completely different circumstances, because the Americans themselves slowed down the construction of their chemical ammunition processing plants, citing that they have no finances for this:

          As the diplomat noted, “a completely different picture so far with the elimination of chemical weapons in the United States, which undoubtedly have all the necessary financial, industrial and scientific and technical resources to accomplish this task.”
          However, in spite of this, irresponsibly over and over again delay the deadlines for the complete destruction of their own chemical arsenal. Now it turns out that it is Washington that remains the owner of the world's largest stockpile of chemical weapons - more than 2,5 thousand tons of the most dangerous weapons poisonous substances. Thus, the United States carefully preserves the prohibited for all others type of weapons of mass destruction. Apparently, for some reason they need it,
          stressed Ryabkov.

          https://topwar.ru/134639-ssha-ne-toropyatsya-s-unichtozheniem-himoruzhiya.html
          You can write books on PR technologies, but do not forget that your primitive PR is not perceived by everyone in VO, especially when it touches on issues related to the country's defense capabilities, because there are people here who do not have your propaganda - they know better than you to evaluate it.
          1. +1
            15 May 2020 11: 07
            Quote: ccsr
            And you are lying in an unscrupulous manner, because the construction stoppage was connected with completely different circumstances, because the Americans themselves slowed down the construction of their chemical ammunition processing plants, citing that they have no finances for this:

            I think that this will definitely become clear when the time comes to publish excerpts from her dissertation, which will be done as part of the cycle. And maybe the memory let me down in some ways - I already wrote that the memory is imperfect, but to lie on purpose, especially to people, let’s say, biased and not quite adequate in terms of assessments, I consider it below my dignity. Just wait, it will be mandatory! Maybe even a photocopy of the page. And you can find her work on the Internet - she is posted there for free!
            but do not forget that your primitive PR is not perceived by everyone in the military academy, especially when it touches on issues related to the country's defense, because there are people here who do not have your propaganda - they know better than you how to evaluate it.
            But this, to put it mildly, is ridiculous to read to me. The fact that you are writing to me for the umpteenth time and are trying to prove what to me, as it says that what I write affects everyone. But the estimates of these your people, just do not play any role. Do you really not understand this? And the last ... here it is https://topwar.ru/134639-ssha-ne-toropyatsya-s-unichtozheniem-himoruzhiya.html I do not need links.
            1. +1
              15 May 2020 11: 35
              Quote: kalibr
              I already wrote that memory is imperfect, but to lie on purpose, especially to people, well, let's say, prejudiced and not quite adequate in terms of assessments, I consider it below my dignity

              And you are conceptually sharpened to slander our past, which is why it is not memory that lets you down, but you simply cannot do otherwise. The reasons for this have long been clear to me, we had a fig of unrecognized "geniuses" in Soviet times, so this phenomenon is not new.
              Quote: kalibr
              . here it is https://topwar.ru/134639-ssha-ne-toropyatsya-s-unichtozheniem-himoruzhiya.html I do not need links.

              But I don’t take others specifically for you to go to these and raise your VO rating - you see how I worry about your material well-being as the author of this resource.
              1. +1
                15 May 2020 13: 19
                As for the first, it is impossible to defame something that itself has already discredited in such a way that there is nowhere else to go, and the second ... so you already raise our rating, so what else should I try. Keep trying. You ... I feel so good.
  12. -1
    12 May 2020 22: 09
    Somehow the guys who organized the BOP were not deservedly bypassed.
    They didn’t have anything at all (radio, access to audiences,
    legal army of agitators). Some kind of gray-pale
    "Iskra" was printed on the horns of the devil, with great tricks
    delivered to Russia, secretly, under the threat of exposure and punishment,
    dragged already beyond the Urals, in the cellars in a whisper read semi-literate
    peasants (wow logistics) - and they did it! Put on ears
    multi-million country! And here is an ode to some American who has
    was the financing of the state, 75 thousand, slaves and even newspapers
    with hollywood in your pocket
    1. +1
      12 May 2020 22: 23
      Who told you that they only had a spark? Oh, how wrong you are. But yes. It’s worth telling about it, otherwise you will continue to think so ... And it will be told! Thank you for reminding!
      1. 0
        12 May 2020 22: 55
        Thank! I will be grateful. It seemed to me that these figures
        Well, at least for three years have worked? Honestly, I am a layman in the subject.
        But I have long been plagued by vague doubts about the genius of Goebels.
        The Bolsheviks had such an experience of a "by-product" as Chiang Kai Shi and Golda Meir.
        It seems that Goebbels turned out to be a gifted student and simply "rethought creatively"
        and adapted all the "know-how" of Lenin-Trotsky to the needs of Nazi Germany.
        As a result, we got a deadly battle between two propaganda and as a result
        Vlasov, Lokot republic and Krasnovshchina-trained on their own head,
        so to speak. In short, I do not believe that Goebels is a sort of unique and myself above all
        thought of a genius of darkness. Interestingly, did anyone dig into his library?
    2. 0
      12 May 2020 22: 52
      Quote: Kushka
      not deservedly bypassed the guys who organized the BOP.

      Propaganda succeeds when it touches some unknown deep strings of popular consciousness. Therefore, the Bolsheviks, overthrew the tsar, defeated the invaders of the 14 powers with all their puppets from the Denikins to the Krasnovs, created industry, defeated the Germans, mastered virgin soil and space. And propaganda does not abolish the responsibility of the authorities and intelligentsia to think and find the right solutions. Management propaganda errors cannot be corrected.
      1. 0
        12 May 2020 23: 12
        You are certainly right! I just wanted to emphasize in what conditions
        they did it. They did their job with a huge
        risk to life, in the face of counteraction of a powerful repres
        a sivny apparatus, having in front of itself a clogged mass of people and
        we know the result. It also discusses a sort of well done, whose
        powerful state support, money, movies and newspapers and
        some no result. Honestly, the guy worked, that's all.
        And when it worked, then it was dispersed - and again, everything is honest. Business.
        Where is ideology, strings?
      2. +1
        12 May 2020 23: 18
        Quote: gsev
        Therefore, the Bolsheviks overthrew the king,

        Here is more about this, please!
        1. +1
          13 May 2020 15: 33
          Quote: HanTengri
          Here is more about this, please!

          I admit a mistake - the Bolsheviks overthrew the Provisional Government, which refused to legalize the liquidation of landownership. Although the Bolshevik Dybenko seems to have made the transition of the army to the side of the rebels in February 1917.
  13. +2
    12 May 2020 22: 49
    About the epigraph and Shpakovsky

    Shpakovsky, looking at his minuses, understands that he is already tired of his empty articles in the form of comments on the Pravda archives, and to give his informational garbage significance and to attract attention at all costs, he used an epigraph from an author who has a negative reputation ..

    The elderly stars of show business, about whom they stopped talking in the "elite salons", and representatives of the ancient profession, who have ceased to be popular, and who use any scandalous information to draw attention to themselves, act similarly. It is all from spiritual poverty.

    The epigraph usually expresses the main idea of ​​the author or his attitude to events, it should be a decoration of the article, and not its shame,

    So Shpakovsky missed the mark with the epigraph. Quoting Hitler, he showed who his idol was. In addition, I have shown my lack of professionalism. Hitler only admired the effectiveness of propaganda, but the principles of Nazi deceiving propaganda were formulated by Goebbels.

    Goebbels propaganda methods are built on lies and aimed at the manipulation of consciousness, they appeal to the baser feelings of the layman. Here are its basic principles:

    - we do not seek the truth, but the effect;
    - the more monstrous a lie, the more willingly they believe in it;
    - appeals should be primitive, without details, at the level of a monosyllabic slogan;
    - propaganda should be bright, catchy;
    - a lie repeatedly repeated becomes the "truth"

    How does this look like the author and some of our forum participants who, from commentary to commentary, launch the same slander ..
    1. -2
      13 May 2020 06: 59
      You are some kind of stupid, Green. Think when you write with your head. I wrote to you more than once that the pluses and minuses are all children's toys for ... well, I know who. Clicks matter, including yours. And with that, everything is just fine! So expose further! Moreover, we will return to the topic of Pravda ...
      1. +2
        13 May 2020 17: 17
        Quote: kalibr
        Clicks matter, including yours

        But what about conscience? Doesn't torment?
        1. -3
          13 May 2020 17: 39
          What are you speaking about? What is the conscience? Conscience is when you don’t bring money to your wife, which she is counting on, when you didn’t help a person whom you could help. He didn’t give a shortcut to the boor, although he could have, he didn’t tell the idiot that he knew the place. This is "conscience". And so, by and large, the whole world around us is just a complex of our sensations and does not really exist. And if so, then ... all that is good for my mind, then only this is good! Everything else doesn't matter! If I die, this world will die, and with it the whole Universe. So what to worry about?
          1. 0
            14 May 2020 09: 27
            Quote: kalibr
            What are you speaking about? What a conscience


            "... Although human life is more valuable than anything in the world, we always act as if there is something even more valuable in the world than human life ... " (Antoine de Saint-Esupery)

            You do not understand this, you are a beggar. Beggar in spirit. As Vysotsky wrote: "... they don't sing about such people. "
            1. -1
              14 May 2020 13: 52
              You know, let them not sing, but they love those who are close and dear to me. And the opinion of the drunkard Vysotsky is not credibility at all. You still refer to the songs of this in an eternal hat. Or do you hope that they will sing about you? They’ll bury them like a dog, there’s no difference. Well, someone close will cry. Bukhara with the inscription put on the grave? Well, then you still will not be where your corpse lies, under the bukhara with the inscription that in mugs under the fence!
              1. +1
                14 May 2020 18: 00
                Well what can I say? ....
                Your behavior on the forum is only a confirmation of the justice of the well-known definition of V.I. Lenin on the intelligentsia.
                I don’t understand only: have you become this way or were you born? But most likely: the apple does not fall far from the apple tree.
                1. 0
                  14 May 2020 18: 27
                  So don’t say anything. The opinion of the Ukrainian loser here, apart from the defective, is of no interest to anyone ...
                  1. +1
                    14 May 2020 20: 54
                    Quote: kalibr
                    . The opinion of the Ukrainian loser here, apart from the defective, is of no interest to anyone ...

                    You have more than enough ambition ..... Well, who do you call defective?
        2. +2
          15 May 2020 10: 56
          Quote: Alexander Green
          But what about conscience? Doesn't torment?

          Do you think he has it? I do not believe - this person knew the "truth" that money does not smell, and therefore if you pay him, then he will praise Marx and Lenin and prove that these are theorists of the most advanced teaching in the world. Or, on the contrary, he will prove that Gorbachev acted in the interests of the peoples of the USSR - the main thing is to pay, and money in advance.
  14. +1
    13 May 2020 09: 47
    Thank you for the article, it will never be superfluous to remind you what exactly now flies into the head from various sources .--- I once read with pleasure--
    S. Kara-Murza Manipulation of consciousness © Copyright S. G. Kara-Murza Date: 14 Aug 2003 OCR: Sergey Parunov
    --- How the USSR was broken.
    1. 0
      13 May 2020 17: 40
      Quote: remserves
      Thank you for the article, it will never be superfluous to remind you what exactly now flies into the head from various sources .--- I once read with pleasure--
      S. Kara-Murza Manipulation of consciousness © Copyright S. G. Kara-Murza Date: 14 Aug 2003 OCR: Sergey Parunov
      --- How the USSR was broken.

      Well then ... a handbook!